September 23, 2025 • 37 mins
Cam Smith and Anna Gibson join the podcast from Italy where they're juggling an extraordinary athletic challenge. Currently training with the USA Skimo team, both athletes are preparing to represent Team USA in dual events at the upcoming Mountain Running World Championships in Spain.
The conversation offers a fascinating glimpse into their Italian training camp and the unique dynamics of preparing for two completely different mountain disciplines simultaneously. Anna reveals her deep skiing background—"It's definitely the original sport for me"—explaining how her lifelong passion for skiing has naturally evolved into competitive ski mountaineering as the sport heads toward its Olympic debut. Meanwhile, Cam shares insights about the technical challenges of mastering quick transitions and equipment changes essential to skimo racing.
What makes this episode particularly compelling is the candid discussion about team dynamics within USA Trail Running. Cam details his efforts to foster camaraderie through a pre-Worlds training camp in Colorado, where the team tackled challenging 14,000-foot peaks together. "This exact group will never be together again as teammates," Smith reflects, highlighting the fleeting nature of these special team configurations and the importance of maximizing every moment.
The most poignant segment comes when Anna discusses her decision to postpone her Grand Teton FKT attempt after rolling her ankle before Sierre-Zinal. Her thoughtful explanation reveals the complex calculus elite athletes must navigate when balancing personal goals against team responsibilities. The conversation concludes with a passionate discussion about anti-doping in trail running and the athletes' hopes for the sport's future, including potential Olympic inclusion.
Whether you're a mountain sports enthusiast or simply fascinated by elite athlete mindsets, this episode offers remarkable insights into the dedication, versatility, and thoughtful decision-making required at the highest levels of endurance sports. Follow along as Cam and Anna head to Worlds to represent Team USA in this pivotal moment for American mountain running!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:00):
We are live.
Cam Smith, ana Gibson.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going guys?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Thanks we're doing good.
Hey, james, great.
Yeah, fun to have a triplecombo.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I know I don't do too many of these.
I'm going to figure out how todivvy up the questions and stuff
like that.
It should be kind of fun.
First off, cam, happy 30thbirthday dude.
Welcome to the welcome to.
Uh, yeah, we got to give around of applause.
It's a pretty exciting for you.
Cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Thank you.
Thank you, yeah, joining theclub yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, awesome, all right, so, guys, you, but you're
over there now.
So maybe let's talk about, like, how long you guys have been
over there, what you've beengetting up to so far.
It sounds like you've beenhaving a ton of fun.
Maybe talk about that a littlebit.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I feel like you should explain what's happening
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
All right.
Yeah, cam and I have been inItaly for a couple of days.
We're with the USA Schemo team,which has been super fun.
Cam is a veteran and hasconvinced me that Schemo is
super fun greatest thing.
So I am here with the team aswell now, which has been really
great and I'm learning a lot.
But, yeah, we've got a greatcrew.
There's like eight athletesover here.
(02:15):
We trained up on the Stelvio,on the glacier, on snow, for a
few days and then now we're inthe Dolomites, in a town, in a
town called San Martino deCastroza, just doing some like
dry land training and, um, yeah,just running, getting ready for
worlds.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So cool.
When are you guys headed overto?
Uh, kind of Frank.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So we'll both go down on the 21st, on Sunday, and
then the uphill race is Thursday, so we have like four days
before racing but we're alreadyin the same time zone just
chilling up here and then it'llbe like a two hour flight to get
from Venice down to Barcelona.
So that was kind of the idea isthe ski camp is giving us a
little time to get over jet lagand run some Euro trails and
(02:59):
kind of get all those kinks outand like it's sort of a hybrid
thing of obviously getting readyfor the ski season, but it's
also sort of perfect prep for aracing worlds next week.
So yeah, it all kind of cametogether.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Nice, nice.
This one's for you.
I had no idea you were likedoing the ski mode thing.
This is so cool Surprise, didyou?
Are you I mean I, are you likean avid skier as well and have
like grown up doing it Like?
How did you like?
What's your background withskiing?
I'm just so curious.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, no, I am a big skier.
Um, it's definitely like the,the original sport for me.
Um, both my parents are big skibums and that was kind of just
the culture that I was broughtup in.
Um, and then, competitively, Iraced downhill for a long time.
Um, I switched over to Nordicin high school.
So I have like a background inboth parts of the skimo race
essentially, and then I've justbeen like a back country skier
(03:48):
for the last few years, likethroughout all the winters, and
yeah, I mean, it's basicallyjust been always a part of my
life.
So it feels like a very naturaltransition.
But I've only done one skimorace up to this point.
It was like two years ago.
So it's kind of like a newflavor of of an old, an old
passion of mine so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Well, that's, I can't wait to follow along your your
schema season this year.
It'll be awesome.
I feel like we should.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I feel like we should talk real quick too about kind
of like the why and how of on abeing way into schema all of a
sudden is obviously this is thelike.
This is the olympic wintercoming up and the qualification
process comes down to one morerace in december, and so anna
and I were talking at brokenarrow about how I've always felt
(04:35):
a lot of people always feltlike she's the perfect fit for
the sport of like having thatspeed and obviously, like
everyone sees how she racesuphill in the summer and having
such an awesome ski background,which now that we've seen her on
snow checks out and is legit,uh, and so we're just like
bringing her into the fold tojust like add some more athletes
to the team and like it's nevera bad idea to have more talent,
(04:57):
and just kind of, yeah,bringing her in with this like
pre-olympic push.
So, um, yeah, that's yeah,that's the idea is?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I mean, has it crossed your, your mind to like,
you know, to like, do you?
Do you want to be an Olympian?
Like, is that, like, like.
How does that gel with you?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean, heck, yeah, like who would say no to that
question?
You know, like it definitely issomething that's on all of our
minds, but also like that'sthat's like the golden thing
that could happen with thisjourney for me right now, but
like it's not the reasonnecessarily why I'm doing it.
Like it's just because likekind of instigated like
happening right now, um, withthe schema thing, like I
(05:36):
definitely think I would havefound this no matter what and
like at some point here prettysoon.
But, um, it's definitely likeput the hammer down a lot.
It's like okay, like we'regoing to train, we're going to
like figure out how to do thisreally fast, like got to
practice my transitions and likeget dialed.
Um, so it's definitelyaccelerated the process, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So cool.
And this is this is thetechnical question I was going
to go to.
Next is how hard is it to learn, like how to be really quick at
those transitions, like is it?
Is it pretty easy or islearning curve?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Uh, it's definitely like kind of a steep learning
curve.
Like I don't.
I didn't really know what I wasdoing when I first started
trying to be fast, and then,like going to these camps, like
we have a great team coach andlike you know other great
athletes on the team who are allreally good, and so like I've
had a lot of coaching and a lotof like direction, and then it
got way easier.
Once I realized, okay, that'swhat I'm trying to do, that's
what it's supposed to look like.
(06:22):
Here's little tips and tricksto make these things fast.
So then I felt like I like, justyou know, my ability like
skyrocketed and now it's just amatter of like the consistency.
Like every single time I do thesame transition, trying to like
hit a really consistent time,cause, like right now, I'm kind
of like I'll nail it sometimesand then I'll totally fail
others and it'll be likefumbling.
So it's definitely a learningcurve, but it's cool.
(06:49):
Doing a sport, that's like askill thing.
Like I feel like running youknow, you just you don't improve
that fast Like it's a very likeit's a thing that you like have
to train day in, day out andyou like see these slow gains,
whereas, like with the schematransitions, it's like the gains
are slow but they're also likehappening, like week to week and
you can really see it, which isreally fun.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's amazing.
I well, I'm so excited to see,like, how quickly you you catch
on and how you develop in itover the next few months, or
even like the next six months orseven months, so it's going to
be awesome to follow along.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So thanks, very cool All right, let's talk.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Let's talk worlds.
This is a very uniqueopportunity for both you guys
because you guys are both on twoteams.
What does that feel like?
Is there more?
And you can answer this one ata time.
I think the the big questionhere is are you putting more
emphasis on one thing versusanother, like, how does that
work for you both?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
definitely not like I'm.
I'm fully hyped for both racesand and giving both races equal
attention and and giving bothraces equal attention and intent
with training and obviouslyonce the gun goes off, it's 100%
in both, which is really nicethat we have the uphill first
and a few days before, becausenothing about spending yourself
(07:56):
on that course is going to doanything harmful for Sunday.
But yeah, so equally stoked forboth.
For sure the uphill feels alittle closer to me just because
it's happening first, like Ikeep thinking about, like uphill
, and then, when that's passed,it's gonna like take so much
pressure off for sunday and likehelp the classic or like help
(08:18):
performing in the classic, justsince like a race has already
happened.
But because it's happeningearlier and because I think I
have a better chance of like abreakout run in the uphill,
that's like maybe from thatperspective, more exciting but
like, definitely equally likeintentioned and focused for both
cool.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I feel like I couldn't I couldn't have said
that better, like I think I feelthe same way, um, and I think
it's just like it's cool to beable to have two races and two
kind of opportunities, becauseit feels like I don't have all
my eggs in one basket.
I think that, yeah, it's justgoing to be really exciting and
super hype on Thursday with thevertical and we'll see what
happens, but just knowing thatthere's another one just kind of
(09:00):
takes all the pressure off.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
It's just like two opportunities to perform and
have a good time this is like ifyou like smash it in the uphill
, then you're going to be likesuper pumped to race again in
the classic.
And if you have a poor race inthe uphill, you're going to be
like super motivated to turnaround in the classic exactly
yeah, I love you can't go.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
yeah, kim, one of the things that uh stuck out to me
in a previous conversation wehad had was going into this
schemo year because it's theOlympic selection year.
You had said to me you wantedto throw yourself in as many
high competition, like highoctane competitions, as possible
.
Really, this is as high as itgets for trail running, would
(09:40):
you?
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, I mean like just thinkingabout all those uniforms coming
together and like the hype onthe start line and just like
seeing athletes literally fromall over the world and like yeah
.
I think it's going to be superthat pressure cooker and get
(10:03):
comfortable being in those superyeah, high, high stress, high
octane, high uh pressuresituations and learn how to
perform your best in those.
So yeah, I'm hyped and that'sum yeah, leading into skemo
season.
But, like when I'm at runningworlds, like I'm 100 a runner,
you know like I'm fully focusedon Thursday and then I'm 100% a
(10:24):
runner.
You know like I'm fully focusedon Thursday and then I'm fully
focused on Sunday and then onSunday afternoon I'm fully
focused on skiing.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I want to take this back a little bit to Broken
Arrow and I'm going to startwith Anna Anna, you and I had a
conversation before Broken Arrowand I asked you something along
the lines of like how specialwould it be and this was a
competition question Like howspecial would it have been not
just to get one back on Joyce,having beaten you in the
previous year, but also win thedamn thing and qualify, you know
, for the vertical?
And you gave an amazing answer,but I didn't get to talk to you
(10:59):
after the fact.
I'm very curious, like how, howdid that feel and how sweet was
that victory?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
um, I mean, it was awesome, like everything about
that race at broken arrow wasjust like so fun and um, I
honestly I think that like thebigger thing for me on that day
was not like my performance, butjust like seeing the three
other women that qualified forteam usa, with me all in tears
and just like in absolutedisbelief of what they had just
accomplished.
Like qualifying for their firstworld teams was just like so
(11:28):
cool and so I feel like as likea team, it felt like a team
victory in that moment, eventhough like that was literally
us just becoming team USAvertical, and like also just to
do it with like two of my Brooksteammates, with Sydney Peterson
and Hillary Allen, like thatwas just so cool.
So it didn't turn out like Idon't know, it didn't it?
Just it didn't feel like anindividual performance, I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I love it.
I love it.
Cam broken arrow question aswell.
Mason told me that on the 23 Kstart line you had kind of
pulled you kind of pulled theguys aside.
I think it was yourself, Taylorand Mason, and you're like this
is our first this is our firstopportunity as team usa to show
up.
Can you, can you talk a littlebit about the tactics that
played out through that race andhow you guys kind of work
together a little bit, um, asfar as making moves and covering
(12:12):
, and just like what yourmentality was on that day?
Speaker 3 (12:16):
yeah, dude, that that kind of gave me chills.
You're bringing it back up.
That was.
That was a super special momentwith us like.
So it was, yeah, me, taylor,taylor and Mason racing the 23K
Cause David Norris had done the46 the day before.
And so we like do the wholegolden trail, like wave at the
camera thing and jog up to thestart line.
And then there's a couple moreminutes before the gun goes off
(12:37):
and we like gotten a quickhuddle.
The three of us like yo, thisis, yeah, exactly our first
chance to.
I think what we talked about wasshow everyone else what we can
do.
So it's like we want to showright now that when we get to
the World's Classic three monthslater, that we're like the team
to beat and we're here to makenoise and crush it, you know.
(12:59):
And so then the gun goes offand it ended up.
The three of us were sort ofrunning in a bit of a train for
a while, which was super sickand like encouraging each other
as we were passing each otherand it sort of felt like the
beginning of our team was, yeah,like happening in that moment.
So it was super cool to racewith each other and then we
finished on one order too, whichis really exciting.
And, yeah, it's just like wetalked about, like we wanted to
(13:21):
show what we can do, uh, for thecoming classic race at worlds
and, um, yeah, now we actuallyget to do it in just a few days,
so, super pumped, very cool.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Um Kim, one of the things that impressed me about
you and it seems like a lot ofyou you have taken and shown a
lot of really strong leadershipjust with being able to put
these like a camp together andhave a lot of um.
I think a lot of folks both onthe vertical, on the mountain,
classic teams, everybody kind ofcome together in Buena Vista
for this camp that you puttogether.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat and how special of a
(13:54):
moment that was for everyone?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think like every time something like
this has happened likequalifying for a team or getting
these opportunities I justalways remind myself that you
never know if something likethis is ever going to happen
again.
It's just like I like, even ifpeople make more teams or the
(14:23):
next Joe Gray's out theresomewhere that's going to do
this every year for 20 yearslike this exact group will never
be together again as teammates,and so this is our only chance
to have this group together andbe this team and have this
performance and go to this worldchampionships, and so I just
(14:44):
want to like squeeze every bitout of that that we can, and so
like let's spend some time as ateam, let's get hyped together,
let's like have some teamcamaraderie, let's push each
other on an actual training run.
Like it's not like we gottogether and just like played
dominoes for a weekend, like welike ran a bunch of peaks and
kind of a lot of us got crushedand it was awesome.
(15:04):
And, yes, I'm just like theseare really, really special
opportunities and I'm justtrying to make the most of it
myself, and that means kind ofbringing everyone together and
we had so much fun, um, yeah, atthat weekend and just getting
to know each other and laughingand training and just made me so
much more excited for forworlds.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Wow, that was very special.
Can you, can you go in a littlebit more on like some of the
yeah I heard from?
I think it was Sydney who toldme you guys did Harvard and
Columbia or something like that.
Like what were the trainingruns all about?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, so we got together on Friday night and
both nights we cooked at Tyler'sfamily's house, which was
awesome.
So we were cooking our mealstogether, eating together.
And, yeah, we woke up Saturdayand then went up to do Harvard
and Columbia.
So two of the 14ers and a fewpeople had done other 14ers the
(15:58):
day before and so not everyonewas together the whole time.
We kind of branched off alittle bit, which was kind of a
nice route, because theneveryone could do it kind of as
much or as little as they wantedand yeah, just like rolled up
to some peaks together.
And then the coolest thing wasit was sort of like a mountain
running team thing.
But we know that Noah Williamsjust lived right up the road and
(16:20):
so he pulled up with a coupleother super strong runners of
his friends that were allgetting together and so we had
like the deepest group run I'veever had in my life.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
It was like 15 people , 15 like elite trail runners
running down the trail togetherand it was just like crazy.
It was so cool.
It felt like being on like acollege team again, like total
throwback.
It was so cool.
It felt like being on like acollege team again like totally
total throwback.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It was really cool and I I felt kind of bad because
we were like mowing down hikersand runners as a group of like
15.
It's like the slowest person inthe group was like a pro runner
and so I felt really bad ifpeople didn't like recognize
that that was the case, thatthis like group of 15 just like
rolled up on him like a trainbecause it was, yeah, a crazy
(17:05):
group and so, yeah, like did asuper solid run, which was like,
yeah, fun because it was sortof normal for some people, and
then, like tyler comes from likea crushing roads and track
background was like, oh, this isthe longest run time-wise of my
life, like by an hour.
And we ran for like four and ahalf hours, yeah, and so it was
(17:27):
sick that like whoa, like thiswas a huge day for Tyler and it
was like, yeah, that way for alot of us and just like, yeah,
kind of a cool way to push eachother and, on top of that, like
just be in an awesome wildernessarea and on some mountains and
just have a good time together.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
That's so cool and I think it's just so important.
For you know, I think on paperit's easy to look at both the
women's and men's mountainclassic team, as well as the
vertical teams, and say likethese are teams that have a
great opportunity to metal.
But I think one of the thingsthat's just so important is like
also just building thatcamaraderie, getting to know one
another and, like you said,like having this specific team
(18:06):
in this specific time period.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
It's not going to happen again, so you might as
well enjoy it and make it veryspecial and really just develop
relationships as well, which isso cool totally yeah, and like
that, like when you feel likeyou're a part of a team and like
the race is on the line, likeand you're maybe not where you
thought you'd be, or you arewhere you thought you'd be, and
(18:28):
things just hurt really, reallybad.
But you know like I need tomake this pass because my
teammates are counting on me,like it's just going to make us
stronger, so we're hyped Allright, I want to shift gears a
little bit on this question'sfor you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I got to get into series and all you had an
amazing performance eighth placein series at all um, we didn't
get a chance to kind of recap it, so I want to talk to you about
that performance, what thatmeant to you and just um, yeah,
what it meant to you and justwhere you were, uh, confidence
wise, after that yeah, I mean, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
It was kind experience actually.
Like I look back on the seriesand all and I will tell you
that's like, I think, mentally,the hardest race I've run all
year, and like I didn't come offof it like feeling supremely
confident or anything like that.
Like I had a really hard dayand like I just don't think that
the paper really shows that Ilike rolled my ankle super hard,
like the hardest I've everrolled it six days before series
(19:21):
and all, and I flew over toEurope with like a balloon of an
ankle it was literally the sizeof my calf and I was like you
know, by any means, like Ishould not have raced, probably.
But I like somehow turned acorner just in time, like
decided it was worth it and likeI don't know, I just I thought
I should do it.
So then I get on the line andlike things were going fine, but
(19:43):
I like had also known what mysplits were from last year at
Sears and all, and so like Istart running this race, my
ankles kind of bothering me,it's like a little in my head.
I'm like okay, I like reallyjust can't roll it again.
And then like I see my firstsplit, which is like an hour
into the race, and I was likefive minutes back from where I
was in 2024.
Like, granted, like 2024, I hada great race there, like that
(20:04):
was probably the best race of myyear and so I knew that.
But I was also like dang, like Ithink I'm way fitter than that,
like all my results this yearwould would seem to say that I
should be running like fiveminutes faster than 2024 and not
five minutes slower.
So I kind of like mentally, justlike freaked out and I, um,
yeah, it was just reallychallenging to like stay
positive and keep runningthrough that and I just had to
put my head down and be likeokay, like maybe today's just
(20:26):
not my day, but like I'm stillgoing to try and like just enjoy
this experience Like series andall is just a really cool race.
And so, yeah, I kind of justlike kept grinding and somehow,
like by the end of the race Ihad like made up those five
minutes and gotten three minutesfaster and so, like I still ran
faster than last year, eventhough the race was deeper and I
was three places back fromwhere I finished.
(20:48):
So it was just kind of like,yeah, it felt like just one of
those races where, like Icrossed the finish line, I was
like I am honestly just likeexhausted and that was like one
of the hardest things I've everdone.
Like it just felt reallydifficult to like stay positive
and, yeah, the the like eighthplace result and three minutes
faster than last year is likeit's really good, I know that,
but it just didn't feel likeeverything I was capable of,
(21:09):
cause I was just like veryconsumed by like questioning my
pacing and my fitness and myankle and all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Oh man, I feel like that's such a hardened race to
nail, like that's probably theheart, one of the hardest races
to nail, it seems like it is.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I mean a lot of people have like catastrophic
blowups and like crazy thingshappen to them and you know,
you're like running and you'relike seeing your friends like
curled up on the side of thecourse like puking and stuff and
just like mentally being likestrong through all of that and
the heat and like yeah, there'sjust so much going on, there's
so much that can go wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I was talking to someone I can't remember who it
was.
Someone got heat exhaustion,like a lot of people get like
heat exhaustion at this one.
Why did they start that race inthe like it's like?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
it started at 11 in the morning.
It's like crazy.
Yeah, it is really wild.
I don't know why they do that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Absolutely nuts.
Um, we'll have to.
I definitely want to talk moreon it at some point, but for the
sake of time, I do want to getinto one more thing.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I heard through the grapevine that you were
considering doing the grand thisyear um, yeah, I was, and I
don't know, I think I I'm like,how do I go into this on a
podcast?
Um, yeah, I guess, like I don'tknow, I think a big part of it
for me deciding not to do it wasthe ankle.
(22:23):
Like knowing that I hadqualified for two races at
worlds was like a key person ofthis team um, both of the teams
going over to Spain.
Um, and knowing that, like, ifI rolled my ankle again running
down the grand, which is verytechnical like, and just very
rocky up at the top, like Idon't know, I think it could
(22:44):
have been a season ender for meand I just like really needed to
like prioritize world.
So I think that was like thebiggest thing on my mind.
Like I was super set that I wasgoing to do the Grand this year.
Like it's in my backyard, it'slike literally the mountain I've
been looking up at my entirelife and like I'm itching to do
it, but it just wasn't the righttiming.
Um, and I think, on top of that, just like I don't know, trying
(23:05):
to grapple with like my why forlike why that mountain is so
important to me, um, and knowingthere's just been a lot of hype
and buzz around it, like Idon't want that.
Why to like get confused with,like, the publicity or um, yeah,
any of that, like for me it'slike I honestly wish I could go
do it and like it be in acomplete silo and like nobody
even know, um, and I think, likeI don't know it, just the
(23:28):
timing, just on all fronts, likeemotionally and physically,
just like did not feel right forme this year and um, yeah, I'm
just focused on worlds, but it'sdefinitely something that I
will do in the future oh, Ireally appreciate that candid
answer and, uh, yeah, Idefinitely hope to hope to hear
you go after it next year, in adifferent year.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
So, um, all right, I want to shift gears back to
worlds.
This is a question for both youguys.
Um, whoever wants to answerfirst, go for it.
It's just.
This is an interesting type ofsquad we're sending, in the
sense where, like, we reallyhave opportunities here for,
like, not just high expectationsbut for medals, it seems like,
with the amount of talent thatare on these teams, what are
(24:09):
your personal expectations andwhat would it mean to you to get
a medal at these races or oneof these races?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Oh boy races, oh boy like.
So I raced the uphill atthailand and we were going in
with me and joe and dan andthree score.
So it was going to be all of us.
And we were talking the nightbefore like man, like we gotta,
let's go for this.
We got a strong team like thisis awesome.
(24:38):
And pretty much all three of ushad like good but not great
days and we were, I think,fourth or fifth overall and it's
sort of like it stuck with melike that was three years ago
and I just remember like beingdisappointed that we didn't get
it done as a team with our groupand then being like so excited
(24:59):
for all the other teams.
Like everyone remembers, likethe team visor men's long
distance trail with like Adamfirst overall and then all the
other boys, like hyping eachother up on like the visor thing
and then winning like the teamgold too.
And I was like man, like that'sso sick and it just like stuck
with me of like like yeah, moreso than I wanted the individual
(25:22):
result, like it'd be sick tolike win as a group and then I
missed Innsbruck with my ACL andeverything, and then this is my
, my next chance.
And so, like, more thananything, honestly, like I'm
thinking about those teamresults, like it was just so
cool to watch everyone be hyped.
And there were other teams thatum, that won a bunch of medals
(25:44):
too, like that's just one of theexamples.
But like I'm I have these twoshots with these two groups to
like get it done together andlike that's kind of what I'm
focused on and I mean that'sgoing to lead to like me racing
1000 all out and doing my best.
Like we'll see where the resultshakes out from there.
But yeah, I'm just kind of hypedto see how both the teams do
(26:06):
and I also know, like in theback of my head, that there
isn't, there's an overall forthe whole week, like which
nation and it's men and women,and like, looking across the
board, like I cannot see how wecan't smash it with all.
Is that eight races?
Yeah, eight races?
No, with the juniors too, it'sten.
(26:26):
So, yeah, I can't get that outof my mind of where we have this
opportunity as a whole group.
So, yeah, I'm not reallythinking about I need to be top
this.
I need to run this time.
I just kind of want to be apart of I need to run this time,
like I just kind of, yeah, Iwant to be a part of good teams.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Anna.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, I mean I don't know, cam and I ran up a really
cool mountain this morning andwe were just like going
absolutely crazy because we'relike in the Dolomites, which
I've never run in before, and itwas just like incredible and I
don't know it.
Just we were like reflecting onthis kind of just saying like
honestly, like whatever happens,it's just like an opportunity
to move forward and like an opendoor, but like if you don't do
(27:07):
well, it's not like it sets youback, and like I think that
every race is like that, butsometimes it's hard to see it,
and like those things are justmore obvious when you're like
out on a heads clear and you're,like you know, not stressed
about life.
And I think like I just need tolike carry that energy into,
like arriving in Spain and, likeyou know, as things start to
(27:27):
get more hype, like for me itreally like this is my first
world championships.
This is my first like I mean Iguess I raced for Team USA um at
Challenge Stelina, but likethis is my first, yeah, my first
world, my first like real TeamUSA experience, and I honestly
just want to like learn somestuff and have a really good
time and I'm not at all focusedon like, yeah, this place, that
(27:48):
place, like whatever happens, isgreat and I have my sights set
high, like I know what I'mcapable of.
But if I don't do it this time,it doesn't mean that I'm not
capable of it.
It just means that I have totry again and like, hopefully
I'll have that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I want to shift gears a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I um, this is something we kind of talked
about offline and something Idon't know like in the nine
minutes that we have left.
It's not something we can fullyaddress in a podcast, but I did
want to bring up to you guys.
Um is talking about theanti-doping conversation.
Um, I know that's something,anna, that you had kind of put
some stuff on Instagram and, cam, you were pretty vocal as well
regarding it.
(28:27):
I just I'm curious to hear yourguys' thoughts.
Maybe around you know, gettingcloser to you know, seeing if we
get an out-of-testing seasonpool and kind of how you feel
about this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like I said, there's no way we're going to tackle
this in nine minutes, but I'mjust just some resounding
thoughts there I'm curious onyeah, I mean, like the I'm just
so adamant about it needs to beout of season, like I don't know
if you could hear, like 90seconds ago, an alarm going off
is my daily alarm to like oh, amI where I'm supposed to be so
(28:59):
that drug testers can find me?
So sorry, my alarm went off.
But it's like and I've only beenin the pool a few months, so
it's not like I have this likehigh horse to stand on.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
And this is because of Schemo.
So Schemo doesout-of-competition testing,
which trail running does not.
Was not, yeah, yeah and it'slike it.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It is really hard to process that.
The like if someone wanted todope and trail running, they
don't have that much of abarrier.
Like if you know, like I have achance of getting tested at xyz
race.
Like there's all this talkabout like oh, this race has
testing or yeah, whatever.
(29:44):
But like it's oftentimes tworandom people in the top 10 and
like questionable testingmethods and they can do whatever
they want or they can just skipthe race right.
Like if they have something intheir system and so just like
knowing that the opportunitiesout there is like really hard to
(30:05):
process.
And like you have to put it outof your mind as an athlete.
Like you can't be training orracing and be like, oh, this
person probably is dirty, thisperson's probably dirty, I
really got this place.
Like that would ruin you as anathlete and make it so not fun
and also kill your motivation.
So like you have to get it outof your head when you're doing
(30:27):
your job.
But like it's just it's reallypainful to know that the
opportunity is out there forpeople.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Like until we get better about this yeah, I mean,
I think I just had, like I'tknow, I had a very chaotic
reaction to the news a coupleweeks ago or, however, I don't
even remember a week or two ago.
Like, at first I was like justI don't know, like in shock, I
(30:53):
guess, and like then also, itwas just like I guess I
shouldn't be that surprised, andthen, just like I don't know,
angry, and then, just like Idon't know, angry, and then sad,
like I remember being sad forlike most of the rest of the day
.
Once all the initial likereaction wore off, I was just
kind of like I don't even reallyknow what to do with this
information.
Like, and I think I'm at apoint now where, like I just
think that the most importantthing is that we start out a
(31:14):
competition testing pool.
Like that is so, so necessaryand I think that, like I don't
know all the particulars of howthese things normally work in
other sports, but like I mean,usa track and field does
substantially more testing Um,there is an out of competition
pool.
Like I don't know why traildoesn't have that, Obviously,
you know a lot of other sportsdo it, and so modeling it after
(31:34):
that makes a ton of sense to meand, um, I also think like just
the biggest reflection that I'vecome to is, like I don't know,
kind of just like a sense ofpeace, of being like okay, like
the sport has gotten big enoughnow it's developed enough,
there's enough, like you know,financial opportunity and
sponsorship opportunity and allthat.
That, like doping, is somethingthat other people might do to
(31:56):
like try and get to the top.
But like I feel fortunate tohave like great support.
I have, you know, a communityof people who are all like
supporting me, rooting me on,like like stable sponsors.
All of that and it's just likeI don't know it doesn't change
the game for me, like knowingthat other people might try to
cheat the system, it feels morelike they're cheating themselves
than cheating me because, likeI don't know, the point of sport
(32:17):
is like to try to be your bestand see where that puts you in
the world, like it's not to justlike be at the top.
Like that, to me, isn't thepoint.
So I don't know, I think I'vejust kind of like had to come to
terms with that as this beinglike the first time I've ever
felt, like personally, likeaffected by a positive doping
test of another athlete.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I think like anyone could listen to what Anna just
said and like get a lot ofinspiration for like continuing
to compete and like pursuedreams in this sport, regardless
of what's going on, and likethe other layer to me is like
what Ana just said is gold, butalso I have trust, not in the
(32:56):
system to like eradicate dopingas it is right now, but I do
trust that the truth is going tocome out.
Like it might be five years, 10years, decades down the line,
but like anyone cheating haspeople helping them, or like
it's part of teams there'sdoctors.
Like someone supplied the drug,whatever drug it is, somehow,
(33:19):
and so like it might be a longway down the line and like
definitely, if you like, likeyou're, we're something still
being taken away from athletes.
When something's someone'swinning dirty right now, like
being awarded a medalretroactively is like so far
from winning something, likethat's still a shame and it's
lost, but like knowing in myheart that, like people will
(33:43):
face the music one day, it givesme a little bit of peace, like
even if they're still stealingright now do you.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
It's just so much emotions like wrapped up in it.
I I just have, like a aquestion, related more so to, I
don't know, conversations thatyou might have had with others
in the sport or decision makersin the sport.
Like what can we do?
Like what, what is available,not just as athletes but just
folks in the sport?
Like is there are we any closerto be being able to getting an
(34:12):
out of season pool or being ableto at least advocate for one,
or like getting closer to that?
Like, is there any opportunityfor that?
Like how can we be voices topush that forward?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
I mean, we were just like spitballing a couple days
ago on a run.
Like it's super expensive andit's hard to do, but like the
infrastructure for being able toenter your whereabouts exists
and is simple and easy.
Like there's a usopc system andthere's a international system
so athlete connect and atomsrespectively.
Like that software is out thereand is accessible.
(34:47):
It's just so expensive.
Like if we can just startsomewhere where, like the thing
that makes it expensive is thetesting, so maybe it's really
infrequent, but like at leastthe threat is there that you can
be found at any given time.
Like maybe that's a startingpoint and then, as more money
comes in, we can just increasethe frequency.
(35:07):
But like we have to get theball rolling and get it started
somehow.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
But yeah, I don't know exactly how that here's
what I think here's what I'velanded on as my easiest solution
is that we take trail runningto the olympics and then people
will care and there will bemoney to do all this testing and
like, yeah, country federationswill care and like want their
athletes to be clean, like Ithink that that to me, I've
(35:33):
realized, is like one of thebiggest turning points for a lot
of sports is that, like, onceit becomes an Olympic thing,
there is more drug testinginherently and like I don't know
, it also would just be sick ofchildren in the Olympics.
So that's, that's my pitch.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
All right, all right, I like it.
I like it.
I think it's a good spot tostop on, guys, thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
James, your eyes just lit up of like.
Here's the next.
Like 10 podcasts we're going togo.
There's so many Olympics we'regoing to go for.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
So many conversations around it.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It's a and it.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
You know, I've brought it up to a lot of people
Like like, what do you?
You know, like I've alwaysasked folks like what they think
on it and it's just a yeah,it's, it's, it's all good stuff
there.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
So guys, uh.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I want to wish you the absolute best of luck.
I hope you have amazing daysout that you want it to be, I
hope it's super special for youand yeah, yeah, I really
appreciate your time andcheering you guys on.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, thanks for having us.
Thanks, james.
No-transcript.
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:00):
We are live.
Cam Smith, ana Gibson.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going guys?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Thanks we're doing good.
Hey, james, great.
Yeah, fun to have a triplecombo.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I know I don't do too many of these.
I'm going to figure out how todivvy up the questions and stuff
like that.
It should be kind of fun.
First off, cam, happy 30thbirthday dude.
Welcome to the welcome to.
Uh, yeah, we got to give around of applause.
It's a pretty exciting for you.
Cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Thank you.
Thank you, yeah, joining theclub yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, awesome, all right, so, guys, you, but you're
over there now.
So maybe let's talk about, like, how long you guys have been
over there, what you've beengetting up to so far.
It sounds like you've beenhaving a ton of fun.
Maybe talk about that a littlebit.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I feel like you should explain what's happening
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
All right.
Yeah, cam and I have been inItaly for a couple of days.
We're with the USA Schemo team,which has been super fun.
Cam is a veteran and hasconvinced me that Schemo is
super fun greatest thing.
So I am here with the team aswell now, which has been really
great and I'm learning a lot.
But, yeah, we've got a greatcrew.
There's like eight athletesover here.
(02:15):
We trained up on the Stelvio,on the glacier, on snow, for a
few days and then now we're inthe Dolomites, in a town, in a
town called San Martino deCastroza, just doing some like
dry land training and, um, yeah,just running, getting ready for
worlds.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So cool.
When are you guys headed overto?
Uh, kind of Frank.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So we'll both go down on the 21st, on Sunday, and
then the uphill race is Thursday, so we have like four days
before racing but we're alreadyin the same time zone just
chilling up here and then it'llbe like a two hour flight to get
from Venice down to Barcelona.
So that was kind of the idea isthe ski camp is giving us a
little time to get over jet lagand run some Euro trails and
(02:59):
kind of get all those kinks outand like it's sort of a hybrid
thing of obviously getting readyfor the ski season, but it's
also sort of perfect prep for aracing worlds next week.
So yeah, it all kind of cametogether.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Nice, nice.
This one's for you.
I had no idea you were likedoing the ski mode thing.
This is so cool Surprise, didyou?
Are you I mean I, are you likean avid skier as well and have
like grown up doing it Like?
How did you like?
What's your background withskiing?
I'm just so curious.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, no, I am a big skier.
Um, it's definitely like the,the original sport for me.
Um, both my parents are big skibums and that was kind of just
the culture that I was broughtup in.
Um, and then, competitively, Iraced downhill for a long time.
Um, I switched over to Nordicin high school.
So I have like a background inboth parts of the skimo race
essentially, and then I've justbeen like a back country skier
(03:48):
for the last few years, likethroughout all the winters, and
yeah, I mean, it's basicallyjust been always a part of my
life.
So it feels like a very naturaltransition.
But I've only done one skimorace up to this point.
It was like two years ago.
So it's kind of like a newflavor of of an old, an old
passion of mine so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Well, that's, I can't wait to follow along your your
schema season this year.
It'll be awesome.
I feel like we should.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I feel like we should talk real quick too about kind
of like the why and how of on abeing way into schema all of a
sudden is obviously this is thelike.
This is the olympic wintercoming up and the qualification
process comes down to one morerace in december, and so anna
and I were talking at brokenarrow about how I've always felt
(04:35):
a lot of people always feltlike she's the perfect fit for
the sport of like having thatspeed and obviously, like
everyone sees how she racesuphill in the summer and having
such an awesome ski background,which now that we've seen her on
snow checks out and is legit,uh, and so we're just like
bringing her into the fold tojust like add some more athletes
to the team and like it's nevera bad idea to have more talent,
(04:57):
and just kind of, yeah,bringing her in with this like
pre-olympic push.
So, um, yeah, that's yeah,that's the idea is?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
I mean, has it crossed your, your mind to like,
you know, to like, do you?
Do you want to be an Olympian?
Like, is that, like, like.
How does that gel with you?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean, heck, yeah, like who would say no to that
question?
You know, like it definitely issomething that's on all of our
minds, but also like that'sthat's like the golden thing
that could happen with thisjourney for me right now, but
like it's not the reasonnecessarily why I'm doing it.
Like it's just because likekind of instigated like
happening right now, um, withthe schema thing, like I
(05:36):
definitely think I would havefound this no matter what and
like at some point here prettysoon.
But, um, it's definitely likeput the hammer down a lot.
It's like okay, like we'regoing to train, we're going to
like figure out how to do thisreally fast, like got to
practice my transitions and likeget dialed.
Um, so it's definitelyaccelerated the process, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So cool.
And this is this is thetechnical question I was going
to go to.
Next is how hard is it to learn, like how to be really quick at
those transitions, like is it?
Is it pretty easy or islearning curve?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Uh, it's definitely like kind of a steep learning
curve.
Like I don't.
I didn't really know what I wasdoing when I first started
trying to be fast, and then,like going to these camps, like
we have a great team coach andlike you know other great
athletes on the team who are allreally good, and so like I've
had a lot of coaching and a lotof like direction, and then it
got way easier.
Once I realized, okay, that'swhat I'm trying to do, that's
what it's supposed to look like.
(06:22):
Here's little tips and tricksto make these things fast.
So then I felt like I like, justyou know, my ability like
skyrocketed and now it's just amatter of like the consistency.
Like every single time I do thesame transition, trying to like
hit a really consistent time,cause, like right now, I'm kind
of like I'll nail it sometimesand then I'll totally fail
others and it'll be likefumbling.
So it's definitely a learningcurve, but it's cool.
(06:49):
Doing a sport, that's like askill thing.
Like I feel like running youknow, you just you don't improve
that fast Like it's a very likeit's a thing that you like have
to train day in, day out andyou like see these slow gains,
whereas, like with the schematransitions, it's like the gains
are slow but they're also likehappening, like week to week and
you can really see it, which isreally fun.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's amazing.
I well, I'm so excited to see,like, how quickly you you catch
on and how you develop in itover the next few months, or
even like the next six months orseven months, so it's going to
be awesome to follow along.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So thanks, very cool All right, let's talk.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Let's talk worlds.
This is a very uniqueopportunity for both you guys
because you guys are both on twoteams.
What does that feel like?
Is there more?
And you can answer this one ata time.
I think the the big questionhere is are you putting more
emphasis on one thing versusanother, like, how does that
work for you both?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
definitely not like I'm.
I'm fully hyped for both racesand and giving both races equal
attention and and giving bothraces equal attention and intent
with training and obviouslyonce the gun goes off, it's 100%
in both, which is really nicethat we have the uphill first
and a few days before, becausenothing about spending yourself
(07:56):
on that course is going to doanything harmful for Sunday.
But yeah, so equally stoked forboth.
For sure the uphill feels alittle closer to me just because
it's happening first, like Ikeep thinking about, like uphill
, and then, when that's passed,it's gonna like take so much
pressure off for sunday and likehelp the classic or like help
(08:18):
performing in the classic, justsince like a race has already
happened.
But because it's happeningearlier and because I think I
have a better chance of like abreakout run in the uphill,
that's like maybe from thatperspective, more exciting but
like, definitely equally likeintentioned and focused for both
cool.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I feel like I couldn't I couldn't have said
that better, like I think I feelthe same way, um, and I think
it's just like it's cool to beable to have two races and two
kind of opportunities, becauseit feels like I don't have all
my eggs in one basket.
I think that, yeah, it's justgoing to be really exciting and
super hype on Thursday with thevertical and we'll see what
happens, but just knowing thatthere's another one just kind of
(09:00):
takes all the pressure off.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
It's just like two opportunities to perform and
have a good time this is like ifyou like smash it in the uphill
, then you're going to be likesuper pumped to race again in
the classic.
And if you have a poor race inthe uphill, you're going to be
like super motivated to turnaround in the classic exactly
yeah, I love you can't go.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
yeah, kim, one of the things that uh stuck out to me
in a previous conversation wehad had was going into this
schemo year because it's theOlympic selection year.
You had said to me you wantedto throw yourself in as many
high competition, like highoctane competitions, as possible
.
Really, this is as high as itgets for trail running, would
(09:40):
you?
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, I mean like just thinkingabout all those uniforms coming
together and like the hype onthe start line and just like
seeing athletes literally fromall over the world and like yeah
.
I think it's going to be superthat pressure cooker and get
(10:03):
comfortable being in those superyeah, high, high stress, high
octane, high uh pressuresituations and learn how to
perform your best in those.
So yeah, I'm hyped and that'sum yeah, leading into skemo
season.
But, like when I'm at runningworlds, like I'm 100 a runner,
you know like I'm fully focusedon Thursday and then I'm 100% a
(10:24):
runner.
You know like I'm fully focusedon Thursday and then I'm fully
focused on Sunday and then onSunday afternoon I'm fully
focused on skiing.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I want to take this back a little bit to Broken
Arrow and I'm going to startwith Anna Anna, you and I had a
conversation before Broken Arrowand I asked you something along
the lines of like how specialwould it be and this was a
competition question Like howspecial would it have been not
just to get one back on Joyce,having beaten you in the
previous year, but also win thedamn thing and qualify, you know
, for the vertical?
And you gave an amazing answer,but I didn't get to talk to you
(10:59):
after the fact.
I'm very curious, like how, howdid that feel and how sweet was
that victory?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
um, I mean, it was awesome, like everything about
that race at broken arrow wasjust like so fun and um, I
honestly I think that like thebigger thing for me on that day
was not like my performance, butjust like seeing the three
other women that qualified forteam usa, with me all in tears
and just like in absolutedisbelief of what they had just
accomplished.
Like qualifying for their firstworld teams was just like so
(11:28):
cool and so I feel like as likea team, it felt like a team
victory in that moment, eventhough like that was literally
us just becoming team USAvertical, and like also just to
do it with like two of my Brooksteammates, with Sydney Peterson
and Hillary Allen, like thatwas just so cool.
So it didn't turn out like Idon't know, it didn't it?
Just it didn't feel like anindividual performance, I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I love it.
I love it.
Cam broken arrow question aswell.
Mason told me that on the 23 Kstart line you had kind of
pulled you kind of pulled theguys aside.
I think it was yourself, Taylorand Mason, and you're like this
is our first this is our firstopportunity as team usa to show
up.
Can you, can you talk a littlebit about the tactics that
played out through that race andhow you guys kind of work
together a little bit, um, asfar as making moves and covering
(12:12):
, and just like what yourmentality was on that day?
Speaker 3 (12:16):
yeah, dude, that that kind of gave me chills.
You're bringing it back up.
That was.
That was a super special momentwith us like.
So it was, yeah, me, taylor,taylor and Mason racing the 23K
Cause David Norris had done the46 the day before.
And so we like do the wholegolden trail, like wave at the
camera thing and jog up to thestart line.
And then there's a couple moreminutes before the gun goes off
(12:37):
and we like gotten a quickhuddle.
The three of us like yo, thisis, yeah, exactly our first
chance to.
I think what we talked about wasshow everyone else what we can
do.
So it's like we want to showright now that when we get to
the World's Classic three monthslater, that we're like the team
to beat and we're here to makenoise and crush it, you know.
(12:59):
And so then the gun goes offand it ended up.
The three of us were sort ofrunning in a bit of a train for
a while, which was super sickand like encouraging each other
as we were passing each otherand it sort of felt like the
beginning of our team was, yeah,like happening in that moment.
So it was super cool to racewith each other and then we
finished on one order too, whichis really exciting.
And, yeah, it's just like wetalked about, like we wanted to
(13:21):
show what we can do, uh, for thecoming classic race at worlds
and, um, yeah, now we actuallyget to do it in just a few days,
so, super pumped, very cool.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Um Kim, one of the things that impressed me about
you and it seems like a lot ofyou you have taken and shown a
lot of really strong leadershipjust with being able to put
these like a camp together andhave a lot of um.
I think a lot of folks both onthe vertical, on the mountain,
classic teams, everybody kind ofcome together in Buena Vista
for this camp that you puttogether.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat and how special of a
(13:54):
moment that was for everyone?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think like every time something like
this has happened likequalifying for a team or getting
these opportunities I justalways remind myself that you
never know if something likethis is ever going to happen
again.
It's just like I like, even ifpeople make more teams or the
(14:23):
next Joe Gray's out theresomewhere that's going to do
this every year for 20 yearslike this exact group will never
be together again as teammates,and so this is our only chance
to have this group together andbe this team and have this
performance and go to this worldchampionships, and so I just
(14:44):
want to like squeeze every bitout of that that we can, and so
like let's spend some time as ateam, let's get hyped together,
let's like have some teamcamaraderie, let's push each
other on an actual training run.
Like it's not like we gottogether and just like played
dominoes for a weekend, like welike ran a bunch of peaks and
kind of a lot of us got crushedand it was awesome.
(15:04):
And, yes, I'm just like theseare really, really special
opportunities and I'm justtrying to make the most of it
myself, and that means kind ofbringing everyone together and
we had so much fun, um, yeah, atthat weekend and just getting
to know each other and laughingand training and just made me so
much more excited for forworlds.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Wow, that was very special.
Can you, can you go in a littlebit more on like some of the
yeah I heard from?
I think it was Sydney who toldme you guys did Harvard and
Columbia or something like that.
Like what were the trainingruns all about?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, so we got together on Friday night and
both nights we cooked at Tyler'sfamily's house, which was
awesome.
So we were cooking our mealstogether, eating together.
And, yeah, we woke up Saturdayand then went up to do Harvard
and Columbia.
So two of the 14ers and a fewpeople had done other 14ers the
(15:58):
day before and so not everyonewas together the whole time.
We kind of branched off alittle bit, which was kind of a
nice route, because theneveryone could do it kind of as
much or as little as they wantedand yeah, just like rolled up
to some peaks together.
And then the coolest thing wasit was sort of like a mountain
running team thing.
But we know that Noah Williamsjust lived right up the road and
(16:20):
so he pulled up with a coupleother super strong runners of
his friends that were allgetting together and so we had
like the deepest group run I'veever had in my life.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
It was like 15 people , 15 like elite trail runners
running down the trail togetherand it was just like crazy.
It was so cool.
It felt like being on like acollege team again, like total
throwback.
It was so cool.
It felt like being on like acollege team again like totally
total throwback.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It was really cool and I I felt kind of bad because
we were like mowing down hikersand runners as a group of like
15.
It's like the slowest person inthe group was like a pro runner
and so I felt really bad ifpeople didn't like recognize
that that was the case, thatthis like group of 15 just like
rolled up on him like a trainbecause it was, yeah, a crazy
(17:05):
group and so, yeah, like did asuper solid run, which was like,
yeah, fun because it was sortof normal for some people, and
then, like tyler comes from likea crushing roads and track
background was like, oh, this isthe longest run time-wise of my
life, like by an hour.
And we ran for like four and ahalf hours, yeah, and so it was
(17:27):
sick that like whoa, like thiswas a huge day for Tyler and it
was like, yeah, that way for alot of us and just like, yeah,
kind of a cool way to push eachother and, on top of that, like
just be in an awesome wildernessarea and on some mountains and
just have a good time together.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
That's so cool and I think it's just so important.
For you know, I think on paperit's easy to look at both the
women's and men's mountainclassic team, as well as the
vertical teams, and say likethese are teams that have a
great opportunity to metal.
But I think one of the thingsthat's just so important is like
also just building thatcamaraderie, getting to know one
another and, like you said,like having this specific team
(18:06):
in this specific time period.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
It's not going to happen again, so you might as
well enjoy it and make it veryspecial and really just develop
relationships as well, which isso cool totally yeah, and like
that, like when you feel likeyou're a part of a team and like
the race is on the line, likeand you're maybe not where you
thought you'd be, or you arewhere you thought you'd be, and
(18:28):
things just hurt really, reallybad.
But you know like I need tomake this pass because my
teammates are counting on me,like it's just going to make us
stronger, so we're hyped Allright, I want to shift gears a
little bit on this question'sfor you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I got to get into series and all you had an
amazing performance eighth placein series at all um, we didn't
get a chance to kind of recap it, so I want to talk to you about
that performance, what thatmeant to you and just um, yeah,
what it meant to you and justwhere you were, uh, confidence
wise, after that yeah, I mean, Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
It was kind experience actually.
Like I look back on the seriesand all and I will tell you
that's like, I think, mentally,the hardest race I've run all
year, and like I didn't come offof it like feeling supremely
confident or anything like that.
Like I had a really hard dayand like I just don't think that
the paper really shows that Ilike rolled my ankle super hard,
like the hardest I've everrolled it six days before series
(19:21):
and all, and I flew over toEurope with like a balloon of an
ankle it was literally the sizeof my calf and I was like you
know, by any means, like Ishould not have raced, probably.
But I like somehow turned acorner just in time, like
decided it was worth it and likeI don't know, I just I thought
I should do it.
So then I get on the line andlike things were going fine, but
(19:43):
I like had also known what mysplits were from last year at
Sears and all, and so like Istart running this race, my
ankles kind of bothering me,it's like a little in my head.
I'm like okay, I like reallyjust can't roll it again.
And then like I see my firstsplit, which is like an hour
into the race, and I was likefive minutes back from where I
was in 2024.
Like, granted, like 2024, I hada great race there, like that
(20:04):
was probably the best race of myyear and so I knew that.
But I was also like dang, like Ithink I'm way fitter than that,
like all my results this yearwould would seem to say that I
should be running like fiveminutes faster than 2024 and not
five minutes slower.
So I kind of like mentally, justlike freaked out and I, um,
yeah, it was just reallychallenging to like stay
positive and keep runningthrough that and I just had to
put my head down and be likeokay, like maybe today's just
(20:26):
not my day, but like I'm stillgoing to try and like just enjoy
this experience Like series andall is just a really cool race.
And so, yeah, I kind of justlike kept grinding and somehow,
like by the end of the race Ihad like made up those five
minutes and gotten three minutesfaster and so, like I still ran
faster than last year, eventhough the race was deeper and I
was three places back fromwhere I finished.
(20:48):
So it was just kind of like,yeah, it felt like just one of
those races where, like Icrossed the finish line, I was
like I am honestly just likeexhausted and that was like one
of the hardest things I've everdone.
Like it just felt reallydifficult to like stay positive
and, yeah, the the like eighthplace result and three minutes
faster than last year is likeit's really good, I know that,
but it just didn't feel likeeverything I was capable of,
(21:09):
cause I was just like veryconsumed by like questioning my
pacing and my fitness and myankle and all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Oh man, I feel like that's such a hardened race to
nail, like that's probably theheart, one of the hardest races
to nail, it seems like it is.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, I mean a lot of people have like catastrophic
blowups and like crazy thingshappen to them and you know,
you're like running and you'relike seeing your friends like
curled up on the side of thecourse like puking and stuff and
just like mentally being likestrong through all of that and
the heat and like yeah, there'sjust so much going on, there's
so much that can go wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I was talking to someone I can't remember who it
was.
Someone got heat exhaustion,like a lot of people get like
heat exhaustion at this one.
Why did they start that race inthe like it's like?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
it started at 11 in the morning.
It's like crazy.
Yeah, it is really wild.
I don't know why they do that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Absolutely nuts.
Um, we'll have to.
I definitely want to talk moreon it at some point, but for the
sake of time, I do want to getinto one more thing.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I heard through the grapevine that you were
considering doing the grand thisyear um, yeah, I was, and I
don't know, I think I I'm like,how do I go into this on a
podcast?
Um, yeah, I guess, like I don'tknow, I think a big part of it
for me deciding not to do it wasthe ankle.
(22:23):
Like knowing that I hadqualified for two races at
worlds was like a key person ofthis team um, both of the teams
going over to Spain.
Um, and knowing that, like, ifI rolled my ankle again running
down the grand, which is verytechnical like, and just very
rocky up at the top, like Idon't know, I think it could
(22:44):
have been a season ender for meand I just like really needed to
like prioritize world.
So I think that was like thebiggest thing on my mind.
Like I was super set that I wasgoing to do the Grand this year.
Like it's in my backyard, it'slike literally the mountain I've
been looking up at my entirelife and like I'm itching to do
it, but it just wasn't the righttiming.
Um, and I think, on top of that, just like I don't know, trying
(23:05):
to grapple with like my why forlike why that mountain is so
important to me, um, and knowingthere's just been a lot of hype
and buzz around it, like Idon't want that.
Why to like get confused with,like, the publicity or um, yeah,
any of that, like for me it'slike I honestly wish I could go
do it and like it be in acomplete silo and like nobody
even know, um, and I think, likeI don't know it, just the
(23:28):
timing, just on all fronts, likeemotionally and physically,
just like did not feel right forme this year and um, yeah, I'm
just focused on worlds, but it'sdefinitely something that I
will do in the future oh, Ireally appreciate that candid
answer and, uh, yeah, Idefinitely hope to hope to hear
you go after it next year, in adifferent year.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
So, um, all right, I want to shift gears back to
worlds.
This is a question for both youguys.
Um, whoever wants to answerfirst, go for it.
It's just.
This is an interesting type ofsquad we're sending, in the
sense where, like, we reallyhave opportunities here for,
like, not just high expectationsbut for medals, it seems like,
with the amount of talent thatare on these teams, what are
(24:09):
your personal expectations andwhat would it mean to you to get
a medal at these races or oneof these races?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Oh boy races, oh boy like.
So I raced the uphill atthailand and we were going in
with me and joe and dan andthree score.
So it was going to be all of us.
And we were talking the nightbefore like man, like we gotta,
let's go for this.
We got a strong team like thisis awesome.
(24:38):
And pretty much all three of ushad like good but not great
days and we were, I think,fourth or fifth overall and it's
sort of like it stuck with melike that was three years ago
and I just remember like beingdisappointed that we didn't get
it done as a team with our groupand then being like so excited
(24:59):
for all the other teams.
Like everyone remembers, likethe team visor men's long
distance trail with like Adamfirst overall and then all the
other boys, like hyping eachother up on like the visor thing
and then winning like the teamgold too.
And I was like man, like that'sso sick and it just like stuck
with me of like like yeah, moreso than I wanted the individual
(25:22):
result, like it'd be sick tolike win as a group and then I
missed Innsbruck with my ACL andeverything, and then this is my
, my next chance.
And so, like, more thananything, honestly, like I'm
thinking about those teamresults, like it was just so
cool to watch everyone be hyped.
And there were other teams thatum, that won a bunch of medals
(25:44):
too, like that's just one of theexamples.
But like I'm I have these twoshots with these two groups to
like get it done together andlike that's kind of what I'm
focused on and I mean that'sgoing to lead to like me racing
1000 all out and doing my best.
Like we'll see where the resultshakes out from there.
But yeah, I'm just kind of hypedto see how both the teams do
(26:06):
and I also know, like in theback of my head, that there
isn't, there's an overall forthe whole week, like which
nation and it's men and women,and like, looking across the
board, like I cannot see how wecan't smash it with all.
Is that eight races?
Yeah, eight races?
No, with the juniors too, it'sten.
(26:26):
So, yeah, I can't get that outof my mind of where we have this
opportunity as a whole group.
So, yeah, I'm not reallythinking about I need to be top
this.
I need to run this time.
I just kind of want to be apart of I need to run this time,
like I just kind of, yeah, Iwant to be a part of good teams.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Anna.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, I mean I don't know, cam and I ran up a really
cool mountain this morning andwe were just like going
absolutely crazy because we'relike in the Dolomites, which
I've never run in before, and itwas just like incredible and I
don't know it.
Just we were like reflecting onthis kind of just saying like
honestly, like whatever happens,it's just like an opportunity
to move forward and like an opendoor, but like if you don't do
(27:07):
well, it's not like it sets youback, and like I think that
every race is like that, butsometimes it's hard to see it,
and like those things are justmore obvious when you're like
out on a heads clear and you're,like you know, not stressed
about life.
And I think like I just need tolike carry that energy into,
like arriving in Spain and, likeyou know, as things start to
(27:27):
get more hype, like for me itreally like this is my first
world championships.
This is my first like I mean Iguess I raced for Team USA um at
Challenge Stelina, but likethis is my first, yeah, my first
world, my first like real TeamUSA experience, and I honestly
just want to like learn somestuff and have a really good
time and I'm not at all focusedon like, yeah, this place, that
(27:48):
place, like whatever happens, isgreat and I have my sights set
high, like I know what I'mcapable of.
But if I don't do it this time,it doesn't mean that I'm not
capable of it.
It just means that I have totry again and like, hopefully
I'll have that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I want to shift gears a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I um, this is something we kind of talked
about offline and something Idon't know like in the nine
minutes that we have left.
It's not something we can fullyaddress in a podcast, but I did
want to bring up to you guys.
Um is talking about theanti-doping conversation.
Um, I know that's something,anna, that you had kind of put
some stuff on Instagram and, cam, you were pretty vocal as well
regarding it.
(28:27):
I just I'm curious to hear yourguys' thoughts.
Maybe around you know, gettingcloser to you know, seeing if we
get an out-of-testing seasonpool and kind of how you feel
about this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Like I said, there's no way we're going to tackle
this in nine minutes, but I'mjust just some resounding
thoughts there I'm curious onyeah, I mean, like the I'm just
so adamant about it needs to beout of season, like I don't know
if you could hear, like 90seconds ago, an alarm going off
is my daily alarm to like oh, amI where I'm supposed to be so
(28:59):
that drug testers can find me?
So sorry, my alarm went off.
But it's like and I've only beenin the pool a few months, so
it's not like I have this likehigh horse to stand on.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
And this is because of Schemo.
So Schemo doesout-of-competition testing,
which trail running does not.
Was not, yeah, yeah and it'slike it.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
It is really hard to process that.
The like if someone wanted todope and trail running, they
don't have that much of abarrier.
Like if you know, like I have achance of getting tested at xyz
race.
Like there's all this talkabout like oh, this race has
testing or yeah, whatever.
(29:44):
But like it's oftentimes tworandom people in the top 10 and
like questionable testingmethods and they can do whatever
they want or they can just skipthe race right.
Like if they have something intheir system and so just like
knowing that the opportunitiesout there is like really hard to
(30:05):
process.
And like you have to put it outof your mind as an athlete.
Like you can't be training orracing and be like, oh, this
person probably is dirty, thisperson's probably dirty, I
really got this place.
Like that would ruin you as anathlete and make it so not fun
and also kill your motivation.
So like you have to get it outof your head when you're doing
(30:27):
your job.
But like it's just it's reallypainful to know that the
opportunity is out there forpeople.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Like until we get better about this yeah, I mean,
I think I just had, like I'tknow, I had a very chaotic
reaction to the news a coupleweeks ago or, however, I don't
even remember a week or two ago.
Like, at first I was like justI don't know, like in shock, I
(30:53):
guess, and like then also, itwas just like I guess I
shouldn't be that surprised, andthen, just like I don't know,
angry, and then, just like Idon't know, angry, and then sad,
like I remember being sad forlike most of the rest of the day
.
Once all the initial likereaction wore off, I was just
kind of like I don't even reallyknow what to do with this
information.
Like, and I think I'm at apoint now where, like I just
think that the most importantthing is that we start out a
(31:14):
competition testing pool.
Like that is so, so necessaryand I think that, like I don't
know all the particulars of howthese things normally work in
other sports, but like I mean,usa track and field does
substantially more testing Um,there is an out of competition
pool.
Like I don't know why traildoesn't have that, Obviously,
you know a lot of other sportsdo it, and so modeling it after
(31:34):
that makes a ton of sense to meand, um, I also think like just
the biggest reflection that I'vecome to is, like I don't know,
kind of just like a sense ofpeace, of being like okay, like
the sport has gotten big enoughnow it's developed enough,
there's enough, like you know,financial opportunity and
sponsorship opportunity and allthat.
That, like doping, is somethingthat other people might do to
(31:56):
like try and get to the top.
But like I feel fortunate tohave like great support.
I have, you know, a communityof people who are all like
supporting me, rooting me on,like like stable sponsors.
All of that and it's just likeI don't know it doesn't change
the game for me, like knowingthat other people might try to
cheat the system, it feels morelike they're cheating themselves
than cheating me because, likeI don't know, the point of sport
(32:17):
is like to try to be your bestand see where that puts you in
the world, like it's not to justlike be at the top.
Like that, to me, isn't thepoint.
So I don't know, I think I'vejust kind of like had to come to
terms with that as this beinglike the first time I've ever
felt, like personally, likeaffected by a positive doping
test of another athlete.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I think like anyone could listen to what Anna just
said and like get a lot ofinspiration for like continuing
to compete and like pursuedreams in this sport, regardless
of what's going on, and likethe other layer to me is like
what Ana just said is gold, butalso I have trust, not in the
(32:56):
system to like eradicate dopingas it is right now, but I do
trust that the truth is going tocome out.
Like it might be five years, 10years, decades down the line,
but like anyone cheating haspeople helping them, or like
it's part of teams there'sdoctors.
Like someone supplied the drug,whatever drug it is, somehow,
(33:19):
and so like it might be a longway down the line and like
definitely, if you like, likeyou're, we're something still
being taken away from athletes.
When something's someone'swinning dirty right now, like
being awarded a medalretroactively is like so far
from winning something, likethat's still a shame and it's
lost, but like knowing in myheart that, like people will
(33:43):
face the music one day, it givesme a little bit of peace, like
even if they're still stealingright now do you.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
It's just so much emotions like wrapped up in it.
I I just have, like a aquestion, related more so to, I
don't know, conversations thatyou might have had with others
in the sport or decision makersin the sport.
Like what can we do?
Like what, what is available,not just as athletes but just
folks in the sport?
Like is there are we any closerto be being able to getting an
(34:12):
out of season pool or being ableto at least advocate for one,
or like getting closer to that?
Like, is there any opportunityfor that?
Like how can we be voices topush that forward?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
I mean, we were just like spitballing a couple days
ago on a run.
Like it's super expensive andit's hard to do, but like the
infrastructure for being able toenter your whereabouts exists
and is simple and easy.
Like there's a usopc system andthere's a international system
so athlete connect and atomsrespectively.
Like that software is out thereand is accessible.
(34:47):
It's just so expensive.
Like if we can just startsomewhere where, like the thing
that makes it expensive is thetesting, so maybe it's really
infrequent, but like at leastthe threat is there that you can
be found at any given time.
Like maybe that's a startingpoint and then, as more money
comes in, we can just increasethe frequency.
(35:07):
But like we have to get theball rolling and get it started
somehow.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
But yeah, I don't know exactly how that here's
what I think here's what I'velanded on as my easiest solution
is that we take trail runningto the olympics and then people
will care and there will bemoney to do all this testing and
like, yeah, country federationswill care and like want their
athletes to be clean, like Ithink that that to me, I've
(35:33):
realized, is like one of thebiggest turning points for a lot
of sports is that, like, onceit becomes an Olympic thing,
there is more drug testinginherently and like I don't know
, it also would just be sick ofchildren in the Olympics.
So that's, that's my pitch.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
All right, all right, I like it.
I like it.
I think it's a good spot tostop on, guys, thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
James, your eyes just lit up of like.
Here's the next.
Like 10 podcasts we're going togo.
There's so many Olympics we'regoing to go for.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
So many conversations around it.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It's a and it.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
You know, I've brought it up to a lot of people
Like like, what do you?
You know, like I've alwaysasked folks like what they think
on it and it's just a yeah,it's, it's, it's all good stuff
there.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
So guys, uh.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I want to wish you the absolute best of luck.
I hope you have amazing daysout that you want it to be, I
hope it's super special for youand yeah, yeah, I really
appreciate your time andcheering you guys on.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, thanks for having us.
Thanks, james.
No-transcript.
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