Big Alta 50K & 28K Race Companion

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Big Alta 50K & 28K Race Companion with Co-Host, Nick Tusa

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'll keep this one short andsweet, but I am so excited to
bring you guys an episode withnone other than my boy, nick
Tusa, a frequent co-host of theSteep Stuff Podcast.
Join me to do a race previewfor the big Alta 50K and 28K.
Super excited to bring this oneto you.
It's the first pretty hot ultraand sub-ultra race of the

(00:22):
season that I think.
As far as hot goes, I think interms of competitive, the men's
50K and 28K are stacked.
The women's 50K and 28K arestacked.
Super excited to see what'sgoing to unfold over this
beautiful weekend in CentralCalifornia.
So, guys, without further ado,hope you enjoy this one.
Here we go.

(00:42):
Big Alta 50K and 20AK racepreview.
People, earth, guys, whateveryou're doing, stop what you're
doing and listen up.
I've got an excitingannouncement to make.
Next Saturday, march 29th, ateight o'clock in the morning, we
are going to be celebrating ourone-year anniversary for the
Steep Stuff podcast.
Hop on over to the Coloradorunning company, come join us.

(01:07):
We're going to be putting on alive podcast with Bailey
Kowalczyk.
Um, we are going to be demoingsome new ultra and um race vest
brought to you by ultimatedirection as well as
refreshments.
Um, we're going to be doingshoe demos as well with Nike
trail.
Uh, we're going to be givingaway Sita socks and ultimate
direction gear as well.
Um, guys, I am so excited to dothis.

(01:29):
I want to so excited to inviteyou all.
Hope you guys can join me.
Um, one last thing.
I do uh want to give a pitchfor ultimate direction.
If you are interested in a packright now, or looking for a
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(01:52):
If you're looking for a vestfor your upcoming adventure or
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Like I said, use code steepstuff pod for 25 off.
Thanks guys, 25% off.

(02:17):
Thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's time We'll be right back.
Ladies and gentlemen, we arelive opportunity to but you know
what man?

Speaker 1 (03:21):
when I was doing my research for the 28k, I was like
so bummed because like like,fuck man, like you could so be
crushing these guys.
Like next year, dude, next year, next year 100, hell yeah um so
yeah people, welcome.
Uh, nick and I.
Nick, frequent co-host of thesteep stuff pod for race
previews, is on today.
We're going to be talking aboutthe big Alta 50K and 28K.

(03:43):
It's going to be happening thisSaturday, march 22nd and Sunday
, march 23rd.
I'm pumped man.
We finally got something totalk about here for a race
preview.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I know I feel like it's been forever, but season's
underway.
Yeah, it is underway.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
There's a lot to talk about here, a lot to kick off
dude.
I mean, I think, some of thefirst talking points like I was
just astonished by the men's 50kfield like, oh my gosh, like
you're talking, like I meanwe're 15 deep in, like
world-class men that you knowany point could win this race,

(04:18):
which is crazy for a march racelike right, like that's nuts um
and the women's 50k is deep it'sdeeper than it's significantly
deeper than 28k, so I thinkthere's a lot to talk about on
the women's 50K is deep.
It's deeper than it'ssignificantly deeper than the
28K, so I think there's a lot totalk about on the women's side
as well.
Returning champion and courserecord holder of the 28K, miss
Tabor Hemming, or should I sayMrs Tabor Hemming Tabor Hemming
is back and running the 50K aswell.

(04:40):
So, yeah, have you talked toany information there, any inner
side or information on thehemmings that you you've got I.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I got nothing, honestly, other than um, knowing
that this is going to betaver's first trail race of the
year coming off the roads.
Um, I don't think her roadseason is done yet either.
Um, sounds like she's going tobe doing boston in oh wow, april
, so we'll see.
I just just like a little tuneup for that.
Boston is hilly.
I guess it's not as hilly asthis, but yeah, yeah.

(05:09):
And then Eli.
Yeah, I don't know, I'm curioushow things went after coming
off Black Canyon.
Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
You know my thoughts on Eli, dude.
We'll get more into the,obviously, the analysis part,
but like it's interesting.
Eli is such an interesting guywhere, like, the shorter the
distance, the harder he is tobeat right.
Like, yeah, you know, it's um,I think david roche has his
hands full.
Some of these guys, you know,are gonna get to see, like you
know, like I think, because elithe last two races what jfk 50

(05:39):
and then black canyon.
You know that's a little bitmore of a held back, eli trying
to figure out pacing for alonger distance race, but he
knows what he could do here.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, a race this short and at sea level, it falls
to the walls for the entiretime.
I mean, he is not letting outthe gas for a second.
I can imagine that he'sprobably going to take it out
and it's going to be up to Davidor Brian Becker or Johnny or
someone just to hang on to him.
There's a lot of good dynamicsthere.
It's going to be up to David orBrian Becker or Johnny or
someone just to hang on to him,yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, there's a lot of good dynamics there, like a
lot of Boulder dynamics that Ithink we can we can get into too
.
What do you think about thesecourses, man, there's some,
they're like.
The 28 K, particularly, I think, speaks to me a little bit more
Cause it's just this veryaesthetic loop Like what do you

(06:27):
think of the courses?

Speaker 2 (06:28):
um, I think it's, it's sweet course.
Um, I love the amount of climbson it, how fast it is.
Um, I don't know just thesmooth, the smoothness of the
trails there and in californiaor something else.
Um, I know they made a fewchanges this year.
Um, they took out the, thewhopper, which is the, uh, the
big descent.
I would say it's about a coupleof miles from the finish or so,
but I mean, this thing dropslike it's like almost like a

(06:49):
thousand feet in a mile, likeit's on like a, on like a road,
not technical at all.
So I'm talking like you're acouple hours in a race, bombing
down at you know, four minutepace.
Um, and that broke some peoplelast year, I heard that broke.
That broke matt daniels lastyear.
Okay, um, so we'll have to seethings are going to be a little
different.
I know, um, I know they werebummed.

(07:10):
They weren't able to keep thatin.
Um, hopefully next year, but,um, but yeah, no, of course,
looks incredible.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Um, that area is just so good yeah, yeah, dude, it's
a beautiful area, like I don'tknow, like the 28k specifically.
To me, like 50K is a littlelong, that's a really long way
to run for me, but the 28K, Idon't know, it just stokes my
enthusiasm a little bit.
Dude, do you know if there'sgoing to be what do you call it,
if there's going to be a livestream this year?

Speaker 2 (07:36):
There's not, there's not.
They said yeah, yeah, or thesponsors or something along
those lines.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
I think maybe um who did it last year.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Who aravipa owns it?
What's the name of theircompany?
Oh, no, post.
Yeah, they might have otherpriorities that they're pushing
towards, maybe their araviparaces or something like that.
But uh, no, free trial.
Yeah, no, it is free trialstuff.
They need to just start theirown.
I mean it's I don't know.
There's plenty of opportunityin the sport to to do stuff like
like that.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
I agree, I, or like, even even like, start your own,
or like, cause it seems likefrom what Tom Hooper said, um,
he's the RD at six or threeendurance.
Shout out, shout out.
Tom Hooper, it's my, it's mydog right there, um, anyway,
he's like he.
He said it's easier but, likein some of the more like I think

(08:31):
of, like pikes, how hard itwould be to do something like
that, right?
So yeah, you know some of theseraces.
It's possible because, like,you're in the greater san
francisco metro area, more orless when you know you're
essentially doing this race.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
So, yeah, yeah, dylan said last year they did it out
of his garage at his house.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
No shit, yeah like respect, that's cool, all right.
So 50k taking place on saturday.
28k is going to be taking placeon sunday, both 8 am start time
, specific time.
The distance for the 50k 31miles with 6700 feet of vertical
.
There's like four big climbs inthere.
I like that, I like that it'snot just like one big climb and

(09:07):
then running down.
It's more punchy, right.
This seems to be the nature ofthis course, where, you know, on
paper it might look pretty easybecause 6,700 feet for a, you
know, a sea level 50 K is prettyfast, um.
But I've heard from quite a fewpeople, including those that

(09:31):
have, like, raced at headlands,which is similar uh territory
there, um, it's very punchy likethose.
Those climbs will kick your ass.
So that's going to beinteresting, uh, to follow along
and and who, I guess, who'sbeen doing enough strength work
in the off season, like a lot ofthese guys are fit, right, like
your andy whackers the world,your eli's the world are super
fit.
Maybe some guys more so, likeandy, are coming off the road
right.
So it's like what is that goingto look like for x amount of
vertical right, that that'sgoing to be up and down, up and

(09:53):
down so I think there's somestorylines on who's going to get
broken here and who's uh, youknow who's going to have to
learn some lessons.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
So also, who is the race legs?
I mean a lot of these people.
This is they, their.
They're kicking off the seasonthere, and some of these guys
have multiple races under theirbelt already, so yeah, it, dude.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
It's interesting to me like we're so early in the
season and I'm seeing dudesthrowing down 100 mile weeks
like it's not, and then likeburning matches, like it's like
they're burning down the houseand I'm just like how the fuck
are you gonna feel when you getto like august, september, man,
like you're going to be clocked,um.
So I think that skewed a lot ofmy or at least some of my

(10:29):
selections, like who's going tobe fresh, who's going to be
tired, like I'm.
I think one of the bigconversations too is like eli
coming off black canyon, you'regoing to have in the 28k.
Like, um, darren thomas comingoff black canyon.
Like are these guys going to betired?
Like what's going to be in yourlegs?
Obviously for a shorter racelike this it should be fine.
But like maybe you know, maybeyou're already a little cooked

(10:50):
going in, you know who knows?
Um.
So yeah, I'm seeing like crazymileage dude.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like I've never seen stuff like this before, going in
like this in march, oh my god Iheard I heard you mention that
on the pod, I think it was somerecent one um, just like the
weather and how nice it's beenhere on the front range that
people are just getting after itearly on.
Yeah, we'll see.
I don't know.
I don't know if people aresplitting their seasons up in
two and planning to take a restperiod at some point.

(11:14):
I don't want to see.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, Dude, you would hope, man or else there's going
to be some implosions, oh man.
So I got some questions and someanalysis going in.
So, looking at this course andanalyzing this course to you
because we're going to have abeautiful mix of mountain
athlete and really solidathletes that can run very fast

(11:37):
on the roads, right so guys thatcan mix it up in the flats and
guys that can mix it up in themountains Do you think this
course is going to favor anyparticular type of athlete?
Cause it's kind of that meetingplace.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I think it favors just the, the American ultra
runner, for the most part, justthe who's good at fast.
Um smooth trails for the mostpart.
I think, coming off the road,um, I think you can do some
damage here, for sure Ummountain runners, it just it.
Yeah, I would say, maybe favorsmore of the road guys, if I

(12:08):
were to pick between the two.
Um, just because of theturnover that you're going to
need on these descents, um, Ithink this is a type of race
where you win on the descentsand maybe not the climbs as much
.
Um, though the climbs do matter, I don't, yeah, I just I don't
think they're steep enough whereit's gonna, yeah, benefit that
like steep um mountain athletemaybe as much.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Maybe you're remy larue or someone like that who
sure who's fast on the roads.
I mean very low 10k time, butalso right, you're probably one
of the best uphill runners inthe world, more or less.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Uh, yeah, you know, but but then again, with with
you know the season that it isin north america now, most
people probably are on the roadsor are on the more front range
type trails that are smooth andwhatnot.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
I think you're right, man.
I think it's that weirdintersection right when we're
going to get to see who's reallybuilt up a ton of fitness going
into this, and it can beapplied.
Who's really built up a ton offitness going into this, and and
it can be applied.
Um, what do you, from a fitnessperspective, like, what do you
think takes to win the 50k orthe, or the 20, what is it?
27k, 20, 28?

Speaker 2 (13:12):
sorry, like what was, is it gonna?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
be like a four sub 14 5k guy, like a 30 minute and
lower 10k guy or gal like, likeor like low 30 minute 10k gal.
Like what do you?
What do you think?
Because, like I mean, forinstance, like, let's take like
some of these races like a circseries race, right, like your
mason kopis of the world, thosefolks are the ones winning these

(13:35):
races that are sub 14 minute 5kguys.
Right, they're so fucking fast.
Um, for a 50k it's obviously abit of a longer race.
I don't know what eli's statsare, or like even what david's
are, but like what do you thinklevel of shapeness these guys
are in to be able to make thisshit happen?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I would personally put it in in marathon, maybe
more terms.
Um, I would say, up for themen's side, for the 50k, you
probably have to be running.
I mean, at least you have to bein sub 220 shape maybe, sub,
maybe sub two, 15, potentially,um, so elite stuff, um.
And then, as for the women,probably right around two, 35 to
two, two, 30, um, which I thinkthat's what kind of Tabor

(14:14):
expects to be running at atBoston, and I know Mary Denholm
has ran somewhere around thereas well.
Um, so yeah, um.
And then, as for the 28k, andmaybe put that more in terms of
of a 10k, um, and yeah, youprobably gotta be running right
around like a sub 30, 30 minute10k.

(14:35):
I mean, it's as fast as Ifigured david I.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
I mean I can't remember what david said like
he's, he's obviously a foursomething, miler, maybe even
less, and like definitely Iguess he's a sub 15 minute 5k
guy.
I mean definitely sub 15, maybesomewhere in that range yeah I
mean, what did he do?
He ran, I mean dude, on thetreadmill alone.
He did that like eight by mileworkout.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
That was like 430s yeah, I mean we'll get into high
13s.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, yeah, I think he's.
He's, you know, and I'm sureeli can match that easily.
He's like a jack of all trades,like has the biggest and like
aerobic engine of anybody,probably in that field.
Um, ryan becker is aninteresting one.
We'll get into all these, butlike, and then the women's side,
yeah, like keely henninger's inthe race too super cool yeah,
I'm excited keely.
Keely's an interesting charactertoo, so when we get, when we

(15:25):
get to that, we'll uh talk aboutit one more.
I think I got one more likepre-start question that I think
it's it's interesting from thislike, because there's no,
there's no live stream this year, but there is a very stacked
men and women yeah, men andwomen's 50k, a lot of heavy
hitters.
Is this an opportunity forsomeone to come in?
That's like a random ballerthat comes in and like if he

(15:46):
smashes these people and wins,he or she like does that create?
Like does that punch you tosuperstardom at that point?
Like, do we, do we like earn orlose potential?
Like, are people like losing uhstock in this or winning, you
know?

Speaker 2 (16:01):
I would say I would say nobody's probably losing
stock just because it's early,earlier on in the season.
Yeah, but I would say nobody'sprobably losing stock just
because it's earlier on in theseason.
Yeah, but I would say,definitely gain stock for sure.
I think just after last yearand seeing what the podium
looked like, I think there's alot of people that want to come
to this to try to make it in forthemselves.
I don't know if that's going tohappen in the 50K.
I'm not going to crap onanyone's dreams, but it just.

(16:22):
It just seems like it's alreadylike, yeah, freaking stacked.
But as for, like the um, maybethe women's side or even for
surely the women's 28k side,like someone definitely has a
chance to to put a stamp um and,honestly, maybe even the 28k
men's side.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
We'll see I like the opportunities these types of
races create, just because, froma free trial perspective, like
they have a huge platform so youknow if you're getting on the
podium for a free trial race,like they're going to blow your
name up and it's going to be.
It's an opportunity.
The only reason I say this it'skind of like the Joe and
Delione effect.
Right, yeah, Like Joe and goesand went or not wins, but he
gets on the podium of Cirquebase and beach you some of the

(17:07):
best names in the sport and thenimmediately you know, within,
like he'll tell you he tells astory on the podcast when I
release it, but, like, prettyquickly gets his name, you know,
brought up by a lot of sponsorsand it changes his life a
little bit.
And I think this is anopportunity that, like, if you
can go beat a Dan Kurtz or gobeat a David Roche or an Eli
Hemming, like, uh, or a TaborHemming or a Mary Delhome, you
have opportunities there to makea name for yourself and I think
that's got to be motivating fora lot of folks.

(17:27):
It's going to be hard to do.
Obviously these are the bestnames in the sport, but yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
There might be someone out there that has made
this their A race and they'vebeen working towards this since
November.
You never know, maybe they hada slow summer or something.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
I don.
Maybe they had a slow summer orsomething.
I don't know.
It's a lot to see all right,let's talk.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Let's talk some names .
Um, just like depth in, likemen, like what did you see in
depth as far as men's contenderson the 50k side?
50k side, like we mentioned elidavid, ryan becker, johnny luna
, lima, remi larue um, I thinkthere are a couple more in there
that I missed, if you want togo ahead.
And yeah, andrew bumbleow,preston kates, he's not racing
bumble is not racing next yepyep, yep, he's out um pressing
kate's yep, I forgot that one.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
You know preston, yeah, former nike guy like he
had this very cathartic, likeinteresting post a few years ago
when he like stepped away fromthe nike racing team because he
I don't want to say because hewanted more money, but like he
knew his worth.
It was definitely someone thatwas motivated to, you know, like
chase, like certain things inthe sport.
So it's very interesting guy,like very deep dude, so like

(18:31):
that's someone I admire in thesport.
And if I'm very interesting,yeah, so Elliot Carden, who
trains, has been training a lotwith Remy LaRue.
They live in like a similararea in Canada, not too far from
like the New Hampshire Vermontworld.
Um, kenyon Woodward, we'regoing to see what that looks
like, just because this is areally fast 50 K and he's like a
like a long trail ultra runnerkind of guy.

(18:53):
Um, going to see, like you knowcause, like what happens when
you get on a start line with Eliand Johnny, like they're going
to play a hair back dude dude.
It's like it's not an easy dayat the office.
Um, brett hordig is going to beout there to play.
Um, ryan, neely, joshua parkwere two guys I wrote down as
well, okay, um, and another guy,adam sojud.
So like just the depth of bignames and then a mixture of,

(19:16):
like random ballers andup-and-coming dudes.
Uh was pretty solid.
Um, let's talk women.
I think the women's this isthis women uh group deserve,
definitely deserves like aserious conversation here who
stuck out?
To you the most.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
I'm sure I could I mean, yeah, I'm just I'm really
excited to see mary danholm andtabor got it.
Um, those are kind of going tobe the two.
I think.
Um, I mean keely, we know thetalent she has.
Her past results have shown it.
Um, she could easily throw herhat in there as well.
Um, but yeah, really the.
I think the race is going to bemary versus tabor, but we'll
see.
I think it.

(19:49):
I think it could be somethingspecial if they both can push
each other hard, because mary,you know she's, I think she's
really hungry after, you know,dnfing at canyons and probably
still having a lot left in thetank, like I think it was still
pretty early on in the race.
Yeah, but I think she's thistype of person who can push it
very hard for a couple hours.
Um, so I think a 50k for her isjust like kind of the sweet

(20:10):
spot.
Um, and then tape for tabor aswell, just having training for a
, for a road marathon.
Um, she's gonna have the legsfor it, it's.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
We'll see if she found her trail legs, um, yeah,
yeah and I think, like tabor, Idon't know when we do picks,
like there's a lot to it, butlike tabor knows the course,
like, like I said, 28k that'sthe thing too like demolished
people.
Last year, like made a statement, um, and then figure what,
tabor got injured then and wenton, still get on the podium of
broken arrow and still finishedtop five at man with trail

(20:40):
fatso's, which is a golden trailseries race.
So you're talking like, yeah,one of the one of the best in
the world, whereas, like it'skind of this dichotomy too where
taber is this sub ultra athleteyou know who has just like
wheels for days, but like marydull home is like a um, you know
one leadville last year butalso has got wheels because, you
know, goes and gets second atjfk to like almost a nearly

(21:01):
unbeatable rachel drake, youknow, and it was a pretty like I
wouldn't say a super close race, but like close enough, like
seconds, pretty freaking solidthere.
And then keely, dude, keely inthe mix.
Like keely just walked awayfrom her ultra contract and you
know it's kind of this rebornnew athlete in a lot of ways,
like with, you know, without thepressure to have to perform or,
you know, fulfill contract, uh,you know things.

(21:23):
So it's like what does Keeleydo?
She's just here for fun now.
And it's like, okay, this isNothing to lose?
Yeah, nothing to lose whenyou're playing with house money.
And Keeley's a monster dude.
I watched her the year I thinkRose raced Gorge Waterfall.
It was like right when LeahYingling started making her name
because I think Leah got secondthat year.
And Leah Yingling startedmaking her name because I think

(21:44):
Leah got second that year and Ijust watched Keely take it to
everybody in that field and itwas so interesting and so cool
to follow along.
So I'm a big Keely fan.
I'm excited to see Some othernames.
I wrote down Lindsay Allison,who just recently signed with
Ultra.
She resides in Telluride,friend of the pod as well.
We're going to have her on soon, oh cool.
Zuzana trenkova um, this namepopped out to me in research

(22:07):
talk took the top.
What did she get?
Top 35 last year at headlandsat the golden trail race, which
is pretty solid.
Um, you're talking, you knowworld-class contenders there.
And then she ran 42nd at occ.
It was either in 23 or 24, Ican't remember, and she's a
former pro triathlete.
Um, she's pretty solid, like anyrace in the bay area.
She's from san francisco, soany race that she enters she

(22:29):
generally wins, like a lot ofthe, a lot of her ultra sign up
is like local stuff and she justdominates people, um, so it's
going to be interesting to seeher against like world-class
competition, like can sheperform?
Um, because you know, if youwant, for instance, like it's
probably going to be taber andmary, but if you want to knock
off like someone like a lindseyor akili, like you're going to
have to work your ass off, likeit's not going to be easy.

(22:50):
Um, and then also abigail swiftwas another one um, that I've
written down as well.
So there's some seriouscontenders both in the men's and
women's side of the 50k.
So, yeah, all right, let's diveinto pics.
You want to do picks?
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yep, let's do it.
50k women.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Let's go women first.
Let's see who's the one.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Okay, I have Mary Denholm taking the dub.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Do you really what I do?
I do, oh, I like it, I like it,I do, and then I have Tabor
within 30 seconds.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I mean, I think it's honestly going to come down to a
kick at the end, though, withthose two, which would be
amazing, which I hope if thereis someone filming out there,
like if, like, dylan's out therewith free trail or someone like
that, someone please strap acamera to yourself and like get
some, like get some sweetfootage, cause I think that
could be a pretty cool video.
Um, and then I have Keely inthird um, again just coming off

(23:44):
the first trail race of the year.
We'll have to see um LindsayAllison in fourth and local Lucy
Anders in fifth.
So we'll see, but I thinkfourth and fifth, maybe even
third, is kind of just up forgrabs.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
You know, lindsay Allison shocked me before in the
past, cause like she's come outand I think she's won or placed
very high in the quad dipsyrace.
Um, I believe she's a Stanfordalum, so she's got some
connection, like relativeconnection, to the area.
Um, the only question that I'vealways had is like okay, so you
can build giant fitness in theoff season Like they live in
Telluride, right?
So it's like you're.
If you run in, it's hard to run.

(24:23):
You're either on the treadmillor you're on snowy roads or
you're getting a ton of fitnessfrom skiing.
I don't know, I think she has anopportunity to compete for
third place.
Lindsay, I wouldn't besurprised, and I could see her
definitely getting in there.
I mean, it seems like she's hadsome great finishes at Broken
Arrow in the past.
I think she's a former winnerof the um the uh.

(24:47):
What is the iron, not the ironcrown challenge?
What is what's the broken arrow?
Triple crown, triple crown.
Thank you, yep, um, yeah, she'swon that in the past.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Like she's very solid she won lake sonoma 52, which
is like those trails are verysimilar to these, yeah so.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
so she might have just like natural talent to be
able to like dude.
It's like interesting like some, like some people are really
good like just grinding uphilland then running as hard as they
can down, and then some peoplejust get broken, going up and
down, up and down, up and down,like your body, some people's
like muscular dexterity can'ttake it.
So she seems like one of thosepeople that can definitely take
it.
So I would agree.
So I've got Tabern first, the.

(25:21):
So I've got Tabern first.
The only reason is is because,like I've been really paying
attention to Mary Delhom'sDenholm it's Denhomes, I'm sorry
, denholm Strava and like sothere's a lot of things that end
up play here.
Right, she lives in Colorado.
She was just for, I think, aweek and a half, almost two
weeks they were over in Italyfor the craft.
They're running big mileage atcraft.

(25:42):
So she's putting in a ton ofmileage.
You're like last week I thinkshe ran like 106 miles with like
18,000 feet of vert, which is amonster fucking week.
I don't know.
Like that's a lot ofinternational travel.
And then to come back and thenhave to settle back into
Colorado and then travel backout like West, then, like you
know, it's a good opportunity toget the sniffles.

(26:03):
It's a good opportunity then,like you know, it's a good
opportunity to get the sniffles.
It's a good opportunity maybeget a little sick.
You you're out of your flow.
You haven't been doing as manyworkouts, maybe because, like
you know, you know how it works,like big mileage and stuff like
that.
Sure, but like you know whatgets your blood volume going.
Like you got to do some like athrow in some.
You know some workouts here andthere which I didn't really see
as much on the strava.
Uh, maybe she hides them, butbut then if she's hiding them,

(26:25):
dude, what are we doing in here?
Like 130 mile weekly, jesusChrist.
So that gives me pause.
I'm interested in that.
But Tabor, you know a lot ofroad miles, a lot of time on the
track, like I'm sure thatengine, as we all saw from her
half marathon, and like, dude,tabor was ballsy enough to go
run the USATF um half marathonrace.

(26:47):
Like you got to be so Uberconfident to put yourself in
that position and to see whathappens.
Um, yeah, I just think Tabor, Imentally, physically, I think
Tabor's got all the tools to belike the like at one point in
time, hopefully the best in theworld Like.

(27:11):
I'm a huge fan of her, so asyou are too.
Um, yeah, I think taper getsthe win.
This is early season, so maybethe course beats her up because
it is a 50k, um, but I think shetakes it.
I do have mary denholm in second.
Um, like I said that, I'm justcurious to see, like, how much
that, like that's a lot, of alot of volume.
What does that do?
Um, and then the only personthat I have in third, the only
person that I could see thatactually tapered for this race,
uh, or is tapering is zuzanatronkova.

(27:31):
Um, I do have her going to thethird 141 miles three weeks ago
does have about half her volume,maybe three quarters of her
volume, on the bike and then agood chunk of her volume running
as well.
Um, and then tapered it down to105 miles last week with
majority of it on the bike, withsome runs.
I'm really curious to see.
Like, that's a beautifulscience experiment.

(27:52):
I cannot wait to see whathappens there.
So that's, I'd say it's my topthree.
I think Lindsay Allison can goknock off any of these women,
maybe, except for Tabor.
Like, I think there's levelsand I think she has a little bit
of work to do to get to thatlike, maybe mary mary denholm
level because, like, like maryis a leadville champion and like
that's a very hard level toachieve, hard, very hard thing

(28:13):
to get to.
Um, and I think that bringswith it a lot of confidence.
So until you win something likethat, maybe you don't have as
much like you're so confident,but like, maybe not that level
of confidence and we'll.
We'll go into where I'm goingwith that when we get to Dave.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
And then one thing I wanted to add quick regarding
Tabor too.
She was signed up for the 28 Kand the 50 K Okay.
And I think it was just a matterof like what the competition
was going to be like would be myguess.
And she's her and Eli are thetype of people that they fall
the competition.
They want to race the best ofthe best.
So I guess one thing I couldadd with Tabor is like I think
she could rise to the occasionwith the with this field and and

(28:50):
then take it.
I mean, it's maybe that's allshe needed.
You saw it, occ, how, how wellshe raced that first.
You know half three quartersthe race, racing with the best
in the world.
Like that.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
When you put her in those situations, she she's damn
good yeah, no, I agree, I agreeI'm joey's excited to call a
tabor hemming race you know,that's fine uh, dude, I remember
I think I was texting youbecause like it was right when,
like it was on the live streamand like it was kind of public
watching tabor drop out of occ.
Yeah, it was like on the livestream and then she just kind of
stopped there off to the side.

(29:22):
I don't know if she was with,like, if it was like what, I
think it might have been afamily member, okay her dad
maybe I think so.
yeah, and it was.
It was very emotional, it wasvery it was a bummer to see that
.
But like, yeah, dude, like Isaid, she's got all the tools
and then, like injured, goes andlike gets on the podium a
broken arrow, like how sick isthat?
All right, let's talk, man.
Um, I do, I have a hemming,actually, I'll let you, I'll let

(29:45):
you, okay, sure.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
All right, my top five I got Eli, eli Winnett,
yeah, david right behind him,ryan Becker third, johnny
Lunalima fourth and then RemyLaRue in fifth.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Okay, I think that's.
Yeah, that's pretty damnsimilar.
I also have Eli in first.
I have a Heming sweep Dude.
I just think Eli is probably.
I've never asked him this, butone day I will.
I'm so curious to see the waythat dude reviews competition.
I have to be honest, he's thenicest human and super laid-back

(30:22):
dude.
But I have to be honest, Iwould imagine to compete against
the best in the world you haveto have an enormous appetite for
competition and I wonder whathe's.
Maybe he's not thinking about itat all, but David Roche has
really been calling a shot right.
I'm interested to see whathappens here.

(30:43):
I think you're going to runinto a brick wall when you run
into somebody like Eli.
I just don't think like you.
Just you don't like DavidSinclair.
Barely beat him Like, unlessEli and David Sinclair is like
one again.
I can't believe.
I throw this around Like I don'tuse this lightly, but like
David Sinclair is one of thebest in the world.
When you raise someone like anEli Hemming, like it's not
exactly an easy day out and Ithink he took David to probably

(31:06):
another level and look at whatDavid achieved with that.
So, yeah, I don't, I just don't.
I respect David.
I like David.
He's really been calling theshots lately.
I think it's either going toend up like I don't know, it's
like hard to approach this sport, this race, mentally right For
someone like David.
It's like okay, am I racingthis?
Am I racing this to make apoint, because I've called so

(31:27):
many shots that I feel like Ihave to win this race.
Or can I silence my ego andfocus on okay, I've got in a few
weeks Gorge Waterfall which isa selection race.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
He's doing Gorge.
He's doing the 100k right andthat's an opportunity, because
like this, this, the depth isdeep there, but like it's also
an opportunity for him to go winand make a statement um I think
the best thing that couldhappen to him in this race is
taking second to eli, just uh, Idon't know, maybe humble him a
little bit and be like okay,like I have still have a lot of
work to do, like it's not doneyet, like you don't win western
states in in march, you know youdon't.

(32:07):
So I don't know, we'll see,I'll see.
But yeah, like you were saying,two different kind of I feel
like approaches, like you say,like eli a lot more calm going
into it doesn't isn't going tobe the one boasting about
anything like that, whereasdavid has been more of that
lately.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
So it's just two, two different, different people
going at it, and I know like yougotta remember too, like
there's like a coaching dynamichere, like he eli used to be
coached by david, so like I'msure they have a like an amazing
relationship there, but it'salso like that's a scalp that
I'd want on my wall, dude nooffense but like that's a scalp,
like if I was eli, I'm likelike I think it would be mean

(32:42):
more to me to beat, beat Davidthan to win the damn race, like
I don't know, just because ofthe way like David's been
calling, calling a shot, and ifyou do that like, sometimes you
make yourself a target.
So I don't know, like, and this,I hope David listens to this
because I hope, you know, we getsome shade and he'd like to
fire under him as well.
But it's like one of thosethings where we'll see what
happens.
Like I and I mean no shade todavid.
I love david, he's an amazinglyinspiring person and like

(33:05):
seeing, I mean, dude, you, youran on some of those trails that
he runs on in boulder, likesome of the stuff that he's able
to do there.
Like the guy's a freak.
So, yeah, he's been putting inthe work and he's very public
about the work that he puts in.
So let's see what happens.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I just feel like it's thatalmost like that do or die, like
there is pressure to win nowbecause, like you've been, you
know, you've been hypingyourself.
So in third place, dude, I I'mlike very mixed.

(33:28):
So my third is is a questionmark.
It's I literally wrote down.
It's johnny luna lima or remylarue.
Okay, like I think johnny hasdone enough this year to
progress, and like just gettingto spend time with him on the
podcast and chat with him Likeyou're talking about one of the
most dialed, like control, everyvariable humans that I've ever
met in my life, like veryserious Um, and I respect that a

(33:51):
lot.
Very interesting guy, veryinteresting conversation, um,
and it seems like just byfollowing a Strava, following
some of his training, like he'squiet, he's not really active on
social media, he's just reallyactive on social media.
He's just he's a, he's like a,he's like a what's not a ninja,
he's like a assassin, like justquiet and just working on his
craft right like until he'sready to go strike and you know

(34:12):
just by talking to him too, he'svery serious about wanting to
go compete at broken arrow andshowing that he belongs.
Um, this is a good tune-up forthat.
This is an early season mixerto kind of see where you're at
against, you know, some stoutcompetition.
So I could definitely seeJohnny on trails that I'm very
familiar with, and it's not easytraining.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Um, so he's definitely coming into this very
, very fit.
Um, it's just the the 50 K is.
It's an odd distance.
I know he's raced a few 50 Ksum here and there Um, but it's a
tough one to get right andwe'll have to see.
I don't know if uh.
And same with remy too.
I don't know how muchexperience he has in in 50ks.

(35:10):
It looks like he's maybe ran ahandful so this is what's
interesting to me.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
This is where, like, the dichotomy comes in like remy
started off in ultra, like hadsome great finishes at like jfk,
and like the guy lives at sealevel.
He's, he's a canadian, um,lives, lives really close to the
Vermont and New Hampshireborder.
He races a lot in the Statesmore Northeast stuff, dude.
The way he's competed at GoldenTrail I got to say he's one of

(35:35):
the best uphillers there is.
He's phenomenal.
He's raced Remy Bonet, alexRicard.
He beat Dan Kurtz last year, uh, at the canadian mountain
running champs.
Uh, they kind of traded, Ithink it was one won the
vertical and the other one wonthe up down.
But like they kind of.
Like remy's strength isdefinitely in the ups.

(35:57):
This race has a good amount ofclimbing but it's not going to
be won on the climbs, it's goingto be lost on the climbs.
Like, if, if, remy can puthimself in a good position there
.
I mean, he's not like a slouchrunning downhill, like he's
still world class and um, youknow, his stuff looks really
good, dude.
Like his training, like 187miles last week but 114 of that
was on the bike.
Uh, 73 of that was running likeon on dirt roads and like some

(36:22):
techie trails.
Um, like his trails are stillpretty iced over, so stuff will
start mounting out soon.
Trains a lot with Elliot Cardenand Elliot just got top 10 at
black Canyon, so figures willshow you like that level, that
fitness level.
Like you know, he kind of seemslike he's want to be like too
candid, but like he's definitely.
I think he's better than Elliotin my opinion.
Just sign with brooks, so he'sgot.

(36:46):
He's got a burning, burningdesire to compete.
Um, yeah, I wouldn't besurprised I could see him up
there as well.
He's had.
It seems like he was prettycandid on strava about some like
a little achilles niggle thathe had going on.
Um, but that can be you knowwhat dude that, maybe that goes
away in taper, you know sure so.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
So yeah, so honestly I'm gonna go with.
I kind of based off what you'resaying, I think it's johnny's
downhill versus remy's uphillfor third place, I think I like
that, I like that and like don'tever count out ryan becker dude
like ryan

Speaker 1 (37:14):
becker is capable in any given day to beat any of
these guys.
Like that's a dude that doesn'thave to have a ton of volume,
doesn't have to have a ton ofmileage to get super fit and
like go and crush people.
Um, like last quiet good yearlast year yeah, dude was awesome
, like he had a great.
He took second to michelino atthe rut 50k, which I think it
was kind of understated because,like you know, he raced him

(37:36):
pretty close for a good chunk ofthe race and then, michelino
got away from him, but likeryan's solid dude, I could see
ryan to me.
It upsets me because I thinkryan is like such an understated
really good dude like um, likeshould be sponsored, should be
with a brand and should be doingall these things.
Um, because his talent level isjust so high.
Um, and like as consecutivelydude always in the top, like any

(38:00):
vk in the country he's alwaysin the top five.
Yeah, like the dude just hassome crazy fitness.
So who else?
Elliot Cardin as well.
Like I said, trained with hetrains with Remy a lot.
Canyon Woodward I'm very I don'tknow.
I kind of want to see what thatlooks like.
Unfortunately, for Brett Hornig, I don't know what's going to

(38:20):
see what happens.
I don't think Brett's going tosee what happens.
Like, I don't think Brett'sgoing to have an easy day at the
office with these guys, youknow.
But yeah, we'll see whathappens.
So yeah, that's what I got forthe 50K.
I think there's some good stuffhere.
I did want to.
I think we got into David,which was important.
I think the okay.
One more question that I have,cause I don't want to harp too
much on David, but remember Iwas talking about earlier with
stock, stock, right, if davidloses to eli which could be a

(38:44):
really good thing for himbecause it kind of resets things
, right, what does that?
What does that do for his stockthen?
You know, does that kind ofdiminish?
Like you know, we all,everybody's got their, their
horses going in the race, thebetting right favorites for
western states and worlds.
Like, what does that do for hisstock?

Speaker 2 (39:01):
I think it depends, like if eli does what he did
last year and just dominate, um,that might hurt it a little bit
, but if he's right on, if he'sright behind eli, I mean I think
I don't think it's gonna hurtyour stock.
It might you say, wow, you'reup there with one of the best 50
k's in the world.
Right like you could, you could, you could turn it into that.
You know it's.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
It's tough to say yeah, it's gonna be interesting.
I mean, like, with these races,styles make matchups and it's
just like one of those oneswhere, like stylistically, like
it's anybody's race, like it'snot a mountain race, so it's
it's you know, you're reallythrown to the dice and like
who's the fittest human goinginto this and that's the person
that you know that can put itall together.
So, all right, let's talk 28k.
I think there was some reallygood conversation about the 28

(39:42):
Ks wall.
I'll let you hop into that andtake it away with what you think
.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, sure, yeah, the men's side is that top five is
stout, let me tell you I meanAndy Wacker coming in after what
he's been doing.
We were chit-chatting beforeabout his Strava and he just
recently set the CR on Lion'sLair, epstein, one that a lot of

(40:06):
people frequent and a lot ofathletes that come through
Boulder do and give a good pushon.
It's a really good gauge offitness.
I just did it recently.
I mean it's already being aclose to Andy's.
He was like 18.25, which isridiculous.
And then he just took the GoldHill Ascent CR from David by
like two plus minutes on a fiveby 10 minute workout with one

(40:27):
minute rest.
Like that is absurd.
And Gold Hill, I mean that'sthe type of glens you're going
to see at this race.
It's smooth and not crazy,crazy steep.
His fitness seems like it'sreally there.
I think he did a road racerecently.
I don't know if you how did he?
do there did he win that uh,what did he do?

Speaker 1 (40:48):
I don't know.
He didn't post.
I'm gonna actually on hisInstagram now as we're looking
okay, double check your post onit.
Um what is this?

Speaker 2 (40:55):
it might be on the trail.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Okay, march 10th gate river run eighth overall.
Third american um ran a 15k p,listen, it's 15k pb 4352, that
dude is so fit um 5k and 1355.
Like are you kidding me?
Like andy's, like yeah, for a36 year old dude.

(41:18):
You know people might thinklike oh, andy's old, no, no, no,
no, no, no, like no, no, no,well, dude, I mean like all
right.
So he just, he was prettycandid and just talked about his
, the Gold Hill FKT that him andKate did so big shout out to
Kate Michael, they pulled eachother along on this.
But, dude, andy just went downfive workouts one week.
So five workouts in a week.
You and I both know how fuckinghard that is Okay, that is okay

(41:50):
.
March 10th through 16th tuesdayam 8 by 1k, 5 by 90, second
with kade pm 20 by 4, 20 by 400,dude, my normal like 400
workouts like all I could absorbis like 12 from dead.
Like 20 in an afternoon is crazy.
And then thursday am, mile mile2 by 800, 4 by 400, 2k and 550,
pm Lion's Lair Ascent record hedid that on a double, on a
double.
And then Sunday AM All right,sunday, that's Thursday.

(42:13):
And then Sunday AM, gold HillFKT record climb with Cade PM
easy six miles with Cade, okay.
So dude.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
If he absorbs this, I don't know if anybody could
beat him Truly.
There's just no way.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Are we getting the I can't remember if it was 21 or
22 when he won the broken arrow.
I think it was the broken arrow23K.
Like we could be gettingvintage Andy back.
You know he's hungry, he ishungry.
Oh for sure.
I mean, dude, like after whathappened with Solomon and
everything, I'm sure that he,you know he's hungry, he is
hungry, oh for sure, I mean,dude, like after what happened

(42:48):
with Solomon and everything, I'msure that he.
You know, regardless of likesponsor stuff, like I'm sure
he's like.
You know the old Joe quoteright, what does Joe say?
Sometimes you got to lookyourself in the mirror and prove
the man in the mirror wrong.
And I think Andy's doing justexactly that.
Uh, yeah, and he looks great.
Um, dude, I mean the stack,it's stacked.
Joan de Leon, we'll get into.
Joan, he's a wild card and awild boy.

(43:09):
Dan Kurtz, obviously.
Dan Kurtz is probably the bestprospect to ever come into our
sport.
Besides Christian Allen andmaybe a few others, dan is
literally world-class.
You've got Darren Thomas aswell, one of the best uphill
runners ever in the sport.
Patio leary, who's veryconsistent.
Mr consistent has had greatfinishes at this race.

(43:31):
Uh, ben robinson, who's kind ofa throwback.
He's a northeast guy.
Um, I did see him, yeah, and heused to run for hoka.
Uh, it's funny dude, hisinstagram actually, and I'm
curious about this, he's one ofthe few people that I've ever
seen.
Like he was pretty candid aboutlike I keep saying candid a lot
on this podcast, but he wasvery open.
Like he put like former hokaathlete in his instagram bio and
I was like that's interesting.
I've never seen anybody do thator like former whatever athlete

(43:54):
in the bio.
So I don't know if he's built,trying to build a resume a
little bit or what's going onthere but, um, and there's some
other dude, brody barkhan um,who kind of shouted out to me.
So that's the men's side.
Um, there's some interestingthings with dan, like I had dan
on the podcast the other day,soon to be released, oh sweet,
oh, dude, I love dan dan's itlike yeah, he's speaking my

(44:14):
language he's a good dude.
He's a good dude, interestingguy.
He's in boulder right now ohcool he's headed.
I think he's actually in the,probably right now driving out
to, because he drove out fromvermont.
He like kitted the van out thathe has and is on his way out
and he's was working off abroken toe injury that he had
back in um, I think when heraced at chiang mai it was uh

(44:34):
like a like the utmb race that Ithink was a 50k he like kicked,
uh kicked, a rock.
I think it broke his toe.
Um yeah, so interesting.
Um, yeah, I don't know it'sgonna be interesting, I don't
know.
I think, dan, even like on adown, you know like coming off
injury is still like superdangerous and probably like

(44:55):
gonna win.
But I don't know um femalecontenders who stuck out to you
on the Seems like she doesn'thave a ton of competition at
this one.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
She seems to be the only like sponsored quote
unquote, like professionalathlete, I believe.
Maybe I'm wrong there.
And then there's some localstoo.
Sylvie Abel she won Quad Dipsythis past year and Mammoth 50K,
so I think she's kind of an upand comer and if she can take
out Rudy she has a very goodchance of getting picked up by

(45:30):
someone, I think.
But other than that, I mean AmySturgill popped out at me.
She's had some good results.
Lauren Daniels, which is MattDaniels' wife Yep, she took
ninth year last year.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
She was my real estate agent when we first moved
to Colorado.
Oh, very cool, lauren's goodpeople.
She was my real estate agentwhen we first moved to Colorado.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Oh, very cool.
Shout out to.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Lauren, lauren's good people.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
But, yeah, a lot of locals that I have a chance to
really throw their name in thehat there.
So, yeah, not a ton.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
I had the same thing, ruby.
Obviously we've talked to Ruby,we've had her on the pod before
Ruby's interesting on Strava.
She's a little cryptic.
She posts a lot of stuff butalso doesn't post a lot of stuff
.
So it's hard for me to get itget a gauge on her miles.
Like she doesn't post a lot ofher skiing even though she skis
a ton, um, and like she doespost some of the running.

(46:22):
I know she went down recentlyto run um, what is that place?
I even wrote it down auburn,that's it.
She was was gone down to Auburna few times to run.
Strava is like 50 plus mileweeks with skiing.
I would imagine it's probablymore than that.
Maybe there's like 30 mileshidden or something that's not
in there.
I have Sylvie Abel as well.

(46:42):
Sylvie, first at the Mammoth50K in 24.
Amy Sturgill, second at the SanJuan Solstice in 24.
This Amy Sturgill, second atthe San Juan Solstice in 24.
This other girl, katieD'Ambrosio, second at Kodiak I
think it was at Kodiak 100K.
And then Lauren Daniels, ofcourse, who ran into the top 10
in 2024.

(47:03):
And Lauren gets out and runsdude, she's pretty solid.
She's always been more of aroad athlete.
She's a former Olympic trialsqualifier.
Yeah, um, yeah, I know mattkind of overshadows everything
because he's like the you knowthe dude, but like lauren,
lauren's a pretty styled athlete, um, so yeah, I don't know.
That's kind of what I got there.
Let's go.
Let's go to picks, for let'sstart with women picks.
I think that's easier all right, cool yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Um, I got ruby lindquist taking it, second
Sylvie Abel, third Amy Sturgill,fourth Lauren Daniels and fifth
, local Alexandra Skiketti.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Yeah, I'm similar dude.
I got Ruby in first.
I think it's Ruby's race tolose.
I think she's enormously fitand is probably going to do a
lot this year.
Second is Sylvie Abel and third, uh, amy sturgill.
I think that's, that's, that'sprobably a good line there on
the same page.
Yeah, all right, let's talk,men.
What do you got?
What do you got?
Because this is, this isinteresting, dude, I don't know,
like this is a dice roll hereI'm gonna go andy wacker taking

(48:05):
the dub.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Okay, dan kurtz, right behind him darren thomas
third, johan de leon fourth, andthen local patty o'leary and
fifth okay, I think.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
I think, yeah, that's , that's pretty.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm kindof a mixture of that, I do sorry
third, is it?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
third is interchangeable.
I would say.
I mean, johan, can you knowshow up.
I don't know, has he raced thisyear?
I mean, you just talked to him,has he done anything or no?

Speaker 1 (48:28):
so dude joan's uh is a wild card dude, like wild boy,
wild card.
Like.
I was really impressed by howlike we talked a lot about
competition and like manifestingand like how you view certain
things and he's he's kind of aspiritual dude with that, like
just an interesting cat.
Also, I have to say, one of thenicest humans I have ever met.

(48:51):
Like you want to talk about.
Like when I ask him, like howyou doing dude?
and he's like genuinely curioushow like I'm doing, like he
wants to, like he was likeasking me questions on the pot,
like I was like yeah, he's likea really like left me with an
impression that I was like yo, Ireally like this kid, like this
kid's cool um, and he waseverything like like kade kind
of like hyped him up to me andlike he was everything kade kind
of said he would be, which iscool um, yeah, I have to be

(49:15):
honest with you, dude, a lot oftime he hasn't really been
posting anything on strava andhe noticed that does that on
purpose he's like I don't liketo talk about myself, I just
want to go there and show up andcompete events the best in the
world.
I would not be surprised.
I wouldn't be surprised if hewins the race.
Like both guys dan hasweaknesses and andy has
weaknesses 100 and if you get,like you remember, a lot of this

(49:39):
type of race we're early in theseason here this race doesn't
really matter in the long like,I don't think I don't think
people care as much.
Like this isn't the goldentrail series, this isn't like.
This is a like kind of playaround with competition and see,
like, where I'm at fitness wiseand then make adjustments from
there.
Like, if I'm, you don't want tobe overly fit right, like for
people like dan.
I'm sure what dan's thinking islike I need to be fit and ready

(50:02):
for soon to be, because that'swhere my expectation is to go,
make a world's team, um, or likea broken arrow or something
like that, whereas, whereas,like Andy's expectation is
probably the same way, but, likeAndy might be playing a little
bit more with house moneybecause, like Andy, no longer
has to please a sponsor, he justhas to go race for Andy and
whatever his goals are, he'llachieve them.

(50:22):
Joanne now is with Satisfy andhe was pretty candid about damn
it.
I said it again, candid.
Anyway, he was pretty openabout like Satisfy doesn't
really grade you on or care asmuch about performance.
They're very open.
As a sponsor.
It's a little bit different.
Obviously he's an incrediblyworld-talently athlete, but also

(50:48):
without pressure maybe he'sputting the pressure on himself.
So when we're talking aboutmental space here, like there's
no pressure from a sponsor to goperform, so he's another one
playing with house money alittle bit, whereas like it's
this dichotomy is interestingman like there's a lot to this,
I still have dan winning.
I think dan takes the win, Ithink, out of the three
gentlemen that will compete forthe win, or four gentlemen with

(51:09):
Darren in there in the mix,there, I think Dan is just
really fucking good, like one ofthe best, like like from Iowa
State, one of the most highlytalented, highly touted dudes to
ever enter our sport, and asfar as just like pure talent
goes, you know there's a reason.

(51:30):
Brooks gave him a contract likethat, you know, like right
pretty early into his search forthat, and I think it's 100%
deserved Like I'm a gigantic fanof his.
So, yeah, I think Dan goes andtakes the win.
I don't even think it's thathard for him.
I think he can do it Even with,like maybe a semi, whatever
broken toe, who cares?
I have Joan in.
Second, I have Joan and secondI have Andy.

(51:53):
And third, I worry that Andyleft his race on gold Hill Good
point, that's a good one,curious to see.
Or Sanitas, like maybe, maybeit's like.
Okay, I'm really fit and I'mgoing to show that I think
Andy's still on the podium.
Andy could very well go beatboth of these guys.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
And Darren wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
He's beaten darren a few times now um oh, and he
could be in the same situationas david.
They just left it all intraining a little bit.
You know it's, yeah.
Yeah, you know we do.
We've had a lot of good weatheron the front range, man, and
it's been deadly to go like burnmatches.
You know, like I don't know.
You gotta remember to like goldhill uphill miles.
You don't really get as cookedfrom that, you still gotta run
down.
But like it's not.
But like that effort, dude, torun 102.
That's faster than any personhas ever run.

(52:37):
That that's a huge effort torecover from that, like I and
he's also superhuman, so I don'tknow, yeah, uh, whereas dan's
like been kind of quiet, likedan might be not as fit as he
was maybe a few months ago, likegoing into shanghai, but like
it's still the winter and likemaybe you race your way into
fitness, like it's notnecessarily super fast, that
wins you this race.
It could be like musculardexterity and stuff.

(52:58):
Dan's also really good atdownhill.
That's like kind of his jam, soyou can win the race on
downhills and if you're good youcan yeah, yeah, so I don't know
.
Yeah, we're doingthree-dimensional chess here.
There's a lot, there's a lotgoing into this, so all right.
And then on the women did wetalk about the women already, or

(53:19):
yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:19):
uh, yeah, yeah sorry um you're good, you're on like
third.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Now third, third you're third pick, I do there,
and then I think darren thomasbeats patty.
Okay, and I think patty takesfourth, I see that you know,
maybe ben robinson sneaks inthere I think that's the only
other name and that brody guysure like kind of stuck out.
Um, has what's darren been upto?
Darren, I see, this is thequestion mark for me with darren
is like, just finished blackcanyon a month and a week ago.

(53:45):
Okay, is he tired?
I mean, this is a 17 and a halfmile race, it's not that far,
um, but you got it, you're gonnahave to.
I mean, you're talking likefive minute grade adjusted pace
for this race.
So yeah, yeah, like you gotta,you gotta be ready to turn over
um, because what's the time?

Speaker 2 (54:03):
what's what won it last year?
One, I'll tell you right now.
I'm pretty sure it was, I'msure it was some.
Uh, oh sorry, I didn't evenread the 28 so nick hendel won
it 154, 48, that record okay,yeah, oh, yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
it's gonna be a low one becausetabor got the course record.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Tabor didn't run that far behind nick like tabor ran
209, 32, so yeah, I think taborjust had like a really, really
good day.
Um, and then on the 50k, therecord that eli put up last year
was 338, 33, which is so fast.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Oh my god, 335 this year.
It sounds like condition.
So conditions.
Last year I know there was alittle sloppy, um, it sounds
like it's dry as bone there anduh, yeah, so different time of
year though I know last year itwas earlier.
I want to say it was earlier,was it?
Or uh, yeah, I can remember.
Yeah, yeah, it was earlier.
I want to say it was earlier,was it?
Or yeah, I can remember.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Yeah, yeah it was right around the time I had
dream on the podcast was right.
When she got back about a yearago, yeah, right, so yeah,
interesting, so that might playinto playing.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Do playing to it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Be in better conditions, so we will see it's
gonna be fun to follow along,man, I'm happy we've got some
high octane trail racing thisearly in the season.
It feels like within the nextcouple months we're also going
to have We'll be talking allabout Skyrunner series, and then
Golden Trail will start in Mayor April.
April, does it start next month?

(55:24):
Holy shit, a few weeks A fewweeks.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yep, skyrunning starts this week, this weekend.
Correct few weeks ago.
Scott, scott running startsthis week, this weekend.
Yep, saturday yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
It's not to purposely cover the race.
This is mostly Europeans.
Like the only one over, I thinkis going to be Morgan Elliott.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I think that's all I saw.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, A lot of the name a lot of Spanish guys yeah.
Yeah, and then all right,really quick Cause Ke or next
weekend.
Yep Guianti's this weekend,mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
All right, who's winning?
Dude?
Who you got?
Oh, I don't think anyone'sbeating Jim Dude.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
I think Jim, I think Jim, like, probably has an ax to
grind with both of thosegentlemen.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
One that beat him at UTMB and another one that's
beaten him at UTMB.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Yep, yep, no UTMB.
And another one that's beatenhim at UTMB, I think for the
longest time.
Killian was above Jim in that100 miles.
How long is this race?

Speaker 1 (56:19):
70 something K or something like that.
It's like 62 miles or somethinglike that.
I thought it's 100 K.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
I thought I saw 70 or something.
It might be close to 100.
Maybe that's 70 miles, I don'tknow.
I thought I saw like 70 orsomething.
It might be close to a hundred,maybe that's 70 miles, I don't
know.
For the longest time I would, II had always put Killian above,
above Jim, but I think now Ithink Jim is making that pass
and maybe that's due to age, Idon't know.
And just like Jim has all thefreedom in the world, doesn't

(56:46):
have a family, doesn't have anylife stresses or anything like
that, um, where killian's got alot going on right now and we
don't even know if he's gonnanecessarily be there, um, but I
think this is jim's uh race tolose, that's true.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
The question is would killian go if he didn't think
he would win?
That's the question.
The ultimate competitor, dudekilling.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Well, yes, but I think, but I think it's for a
bigger goal.
I think it's to get intowestern states so I mean, if he
takes second, he's getting agolden ticket.
Do you know how many it goesdown to?

Speaker 1 (57:16):
for I think it's is it two, I think it's well, I
think it's two tickets goesrolled down to five.
Rolls down to five, okay, andjim's obviously already in.
Okay, jim's already in and it'sgonna be really interesting if
what's that.
What's that other guy's namethat won western, that one?
You see, last year, yeah, yeahhe reminds me of jim dude like
this oh yeah, skinny like.
He looks just like him likeskinny likey dude, like you

(57:37):
could look double to do a doublelook and like you would think
that's jim that just ran pastyou.
Yeah, I, I don't know.
I think with jim he's alsoreally friends with vincent, um,
and vincent, as we, you know,we know just signed a big deal
with hoka.
Like he's on the team now.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
I don't know, like I think he's gonna hang on to jim,
though I really think he'sgonna put.
I think jim's gonna have that'swhat he's gonna fight on his
hands.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah with utmb, yeah, yeah whereas and killian, you
know, killian's really strong onthe uphill and just like not as
strong on the down, so, whereasjim is just like a dental freak
.
So, yeah, I don't know, dude, Ialso think Jim, he's so
complete in his game, everythingabout him.
Dan, actually, when I had himon the podcast, he ran with Jim

(58:20):
a little bit this summer, and Ithink it was after UTMB, because
UTMB was August, so he musthave ran with him in September
and just like Jim talking aboutgear, like just getting more
aerobically fit, and like he wasjust telling me, like the way
jim is in his life, like thearea, like the position he's in
at now in his career, is just avery unique one.

(58:41):
Whereas, like you said, dude,uh, killian's got a kid, like
kid that might have just beenborn or is in the process of
being born, like, I think thatthird one, yeah, yeah third yeah
, third child.
And then, dude, he's running thecompany.
Like I know he's not the CEO ofthe company, but there's still
outside stresses with doing thatstuff, especially because, like
you know, there's been a lot ofdiscussion.
Like is normal doing as good inAmerica?

(59:01):
Like Mike, you know, mikeAmbrose just departed to go to
NAC.
I'm not going to speak for anyof the situation, because not
that I know anything.
I just like to connect dotshere.
Ali Ostrander left, like that,and now it's like you don't
really have any Americanathletes now.
That's it.
So it's like, are they exitingthe American market.
So maybe the reason Killianwants to get into Western States

(59:25):
, maybe that's an opportunitythere.
It's a marketing opportunity togo to Western.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
States, yeah, yeah.
I don't know, there's somethingthere one question I had about
killian when is the last timehe's ran a race this long?
I feel like he's been doing theshort stuff so much more these
past, like yeah, was it hardrock.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
There isn't all was the last race he like, like big
race.
He ran.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
So right, how do I'm just thinking of like, ultra,
ultras, like was it freakinghard?
Yeah, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
I mean it's killing, he's a freak so yeah, he's one
of the probably one of the bestpeople the sport has ever seen,
if not the best.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
So and is he ever?
Has he ever done that right?
I don't know if he's ever donethat race.
Maybe he has in the past.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
No, okay yeah, so it's dirt road fitness.
He's also in norway coming off.
A winter dude like you can onlyget so fit off a treadmill
whereas, like jim does, has hadflagstaff fire roads all day.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
So yeah, it sounded like the snow, at least what
I've heard.
The snow is pretty.
Uh, I heard on the john elvinpodcast um, shout out that pod.
You put me onto that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they weretalking about how they've been.
They've been wanting to ski somuch but they really haven't
been able to a ton sounds.
It sounds like the skiconditions are horrible, so
maybe trails have been decent.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, see so at least on roads or something you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yep, yep, wow, that's interesting dude.
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be.
I mean, like I hope you know,and I think it's it's a good
opportunity for an early seasonto see, like, all right, where
am I at with my fitness?
Because, like western states isgoing to be probably the
hardest race of jim's career,like even probably even harder

(01:00:57):
than beating everybody andwinning utmb that year.
Like the level of competitionat the western states this year
is going to be.
Did you see rod farvard?

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
like I was actually just going to bring him up what
Like everybody's getting so goodman.
It's yeah.
Yeah, I'm so excited forWestern.
I don't think this many peoplehave been like.
It's always like obviously likean A race on the calendar, but
I feel like it's another levelthis year for everybody.
I feel like everybody is.
It is their sole goal and theirsole purpose is that race.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Yeah, yeah, I'm curious to see like who who
shows up and who gets smashed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
And yeah, conflict and conflict resolution, dude,
it's a beautiful thing but, uh,one last thing I want to bring
up too, regarding big ulta um,so the talk about you know
fueling lately, the, the highcarb revolution that's been
going on, um, this is a 50k andyou know 50 Ks do involve, you

(01:01:52):
know, fueling, um, and it's avery important part of it.
But the high carb thing with 50Ks now I don't know.
I feel like we're going to seesome, uh, we're going to see
some people potentially droppingout to like throwing up or
something like that, cause youknow, putting back like 130, 150
grams.
Um, moving at those speeds it's, it's not easy for for your

(01:02:13):
stomach to, yeah, yeah, todigest that.
So I everyone, that's in it.
I hope that they've been.
You know, uh, stomach trainingtheir stomach, um, because, yeah
, everyone's been getting sointo this and like, yeah, there
are benefits to it, but I thinkit's more on the longer side of
things.
I don't know if it's the 50 K,it's as beneficial.
So I'm really curious howpeople tweak things and hearing

(01:02:34):
post-race how people did fuel Um, it'll be interesting, cause
it's it's a dry climate too, um,shouldn't be too warm, um, so I
don't think hydration is goingto be a killer, but, uh, but
they could have some stomachissues.
So that's something to look outfor.
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
That's something to look out for, Dude.
I think it's a great assessmentthere.
I've been asked this quite afew times lately.
I can't answer it because Idon't really run super long
distances.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
If.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I do it's once a week , but it's like I do 130 grams
of carbohydrate.
You can't do that on thetreadmill In the sense where if
you're training on the treadmilland then you go and transfer
that to a race where you'rerunning at five minute greater
just pace, like you are, youdestroy yourself.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm curious, man.

(01:03:18):
I that could be a very thinginto play with the, at least
with the 50k, 28k maybe to alesser degree, but like right,
right, with the 50k and that,yeah, I don't know.
And the other thing too is likeyou bring up a really good point
here, and this is something Italked with Jane Moss on the pod
about was like, do you likewhen you start with these races?
Because like 50k is a goodexample it starts at eight
o'clock, it's a three hour race,is done by 1112.

(01:03:40):
You know, the day warms up,right, but it starts cold.
I think the high for the day,both of these days is like 58
and then the following day is 59, so it's like temperature
increasing.
So if it's starting in the 40sand going into the 50s, maybe
60s, um, you know what that does.
Obviously there's not as much atemperature variation there,
but like on some of these races.

(01:04:01):
There is, and it's like there isyeah, starting with, like
starting with uh solids andgoing to liquids and trying sure
like yeah I know, chuck chuckin.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Uh, last weekend, um horrible weather, freezing, cold
rain um, I have people droppedout to hype for hypothermia.
They they ditched their jacketsat the first aid station and
they regretted it at mile 20 andthey had to drop out.
It's so, yeah, weather can play, but I don't think it will here
no, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
I think it's not supposed to hold off on the rain
too.
So, dude, we're, we're speakingof weather.
We're supposed to get like a 75degree neck date like day next
week.
Holy shit, it's, it's, it'sspring, dude as much as always
in march.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
I always like, I always jinx it and I'm always
like, okay, the snow is done forthe year, snow is done for the
year.
Um, and then we always getdumped on.
But honestly, I'm calling itright now, think we're done, I
think we're in the clear.
I don't know, unless April.
Something gets rowdy in April.
But yeah, oh man.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Well, man, I appreciate it.
This was a great conversation.
Thank you for your expertanalysis.
I think the audience is goingto take a ton away from this.
Yeah, until the next one, we'llstart playing on the next one,
next.
So there we go, heck.
Yeah, all right, appreciate itAll.
So there we go.
Yeah, all right, appreciate itAll right, nick, thanks brother,
thank you.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episodeSuper fun.
Really appreciate Nick comingon, uh, to give some expert

(01:05:16):
analysis and talk about the bothof the men's and women's races.
Um, I think there was a lot ofvalue there.
Lots of topics, lots ofrivalries.
Um, guys, we're heated up inthe season.
I am so excited to see wherethis is going to go.
So, yeah, good luck to all themen and women competing,
especially my friends that aregoing to be out there this
weekend Definitely will befollowing along and wishing

(01:05:37):
everyone the best of luck ontheir respective competitions.
Guys, before we get going, hopon Instagram.
Give Nick Tusa a follow.
You can find him at nicktusa.
Definitely give him a follow.
Let him know what you guysthought about the episode.
I'm sure he would love to hearfrom you guys.
Last but not least, a couplehousekeeping items.
If you enjoyed this episode,please give us a five-star

(01:05:58):
rating and review on Spotify,apple or wherever you consume
podcasts.
And very last, very, very, very, very.
Last, but not totally least,come join us.
Saturday, the 29th of March, 8amto midday.
We are going to be celebratingour podcast one-year anniversary

(01:06:20):
.
I'm so excited for this.
We're going to have a livepodcast with Bailey Kowalczyk.
We are going to have a grouprun.
We're going to be doing allkinds of fun stuff Lots of
giveaways brought to you byUltimate Direction.
Cetus is sending me some stuffto give away to you guys, which
I'm super excited for, and we'realso going to have a shoe demo
brought to you by Nike Trail.

(01:06:41):
So it's going to be a dope day.
It's going to be awesome.
So looking forward to it.
Thanks so much, guys.
Hope to see you out there andagain, that's going to be
Saturday, the 29th, at theColorado Running Company in
Colorado Springs.
Hope to see you there.
Thank you you.