September 23, 2025 • 33 mins
Christian Allen takes us deep into the rugged heart of the Pyrenees as he prepares to represent Team USA at the World Mountain Running Championships. The reigning US Mountain Running Champion opens up about the wild, technical trails of Canfrank that barely resemble paths at times—"They stuck flags into a bunch of rock that you're just hiking up. It's really steep."
Fresh off his stunning victory at Broken Arrow, where he outpaced legends Kilian Jornet and Joe Gray, Allen reveals the strategic approach that's transformed his running. "I've been working with David Roach and he definitely focuses on running economy and turnover more than when I was coaching myself," he explains, crediting this shift for his breakthrough performances despite coming back from a six-week injury layoff earlier this season.
Beyond the physical aspects of elite mountain running, Allen shares how his family and faith provide deeper meaning to his athletic pursuits. The father of two recounts touching moments of his children's involvement in his racing journey, including his son's disappointment after a fourth-place finish: "He was super mad and just in the worst mood ever... he said he hated the guy that won the race because he beat daddy." These personal insights reveal the human side of a champion who balances world-class athleticism with fatherhood and spiritual purpose.
As Team USA looks toward potential gold at the World Championships, Allen's confidence is measured but unmistakable. "I think we can definitely podium. I don't see why not, and everyone in the back of their mind is shooting for gold." His preparation, mindset, and journey exemplify what it takes to compete at the highest level of mountain running while maintaining perspective on what truly matters most.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's time.
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
(01:04):
Christian Allen.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, man?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Good man, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Dude, I'm so excited to finally have a chat with you.
I feel like we've been I triedto put this together pre-Broken
Arrow and a few other times andI'm glad this is perfect timing
for pre-World.
So I feel like you're the.
I think I texted you.
I was like, dude, you're likemy, my white whale, like I
haven't all people like I stillhaven't gotten you on yet.
So I'm glad we were able to dothis.
(01:32):
Man, it has been a hot minute.
Yeah, um, dude, so you're over,obviously in the greater
confrank area Now.
You just kind of got in a fewdays ago.
Maybe talk about yourexperience so far.
I know it's been kind of abumpy ride.
I think it was like 30something hours it took you to
get out here.
Maybe talk about just like whatthe travel has been like
getting out there and how you'refeeling so far.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, it was a little bit of a long day.
I didn't sleep a lot on theflight I just can't sleep on
flights or trains all that muchbut also when I left Utah, I
left Utah like 9.40am, so mostof the travel here was like
daytime back home, uh.
But then when I got here it waslike 7 30 am, um, and I was
like I was told by a friend thatlike the train system was
(02:13):
pretty chill and easy and theywere right for the most part,
but the only problem was like toget up to can frank.
There's only two trains a dayand so there's like one early in
the morning and then there'sone late at night.
And I got it there.
I got to like Barcelona at 730.
But the only way I could get upto Canfrank was taking the
train that didn't get thereuntil, like I think it arrived
(02:35):
at Canfrank station at like745pm.
So I was like, oh boy, I'vealready like had this long
travel day and it looks like I'mjust going to be awake all day.
Like I was expecting to getlike a run-in and all this stuff
.
But I had all my bag I wascarrying around, or my big bag I
was carrying around and whatnot.
So it was just a long day oftravel there, a lot of like
trains and then sitting aroundwaiting for the next train
(02:56):
because they weren't super likelined up, probably just because
it's a smaller, more rural area.
But now that I'm here it's beengreat.
In a smaller town that's not.
That doesn't have a lot either.
Actually I'm just in canfrank,but not the canfrank estacion.
Estacion has like a few grocerystores, smaller grocery stores
and some, um, just places to eat.
(03:18):
But my like little city, whichis only like five kilometers
down the road, only has like onerestaurant and no, uh, no ATMs.
No, no restaurant.
I mean uh, no, uh grocerystores.
So just uh, at the whim ofpublic transportation here,
which are not the most frequent.
But it's nice, it's been goodChill, the running has been
(03:38):
great.
So I can't complain.
The running is great, nice,nice.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's funny man.
I was talking to Michelino andhe was kind of joking around.
He's like dude, there's a lotof a lot of siestas here.
He's like you can't grab dinnertill like eight or nine o'clock
, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, they definitely have a different timeframe here
.
It's like we're coming fromAmerica where, like you just
expect grocery stores to be openlike all day until like 11 PM
and they like are open for asmidgen here and then they close
and then they open later.
It's just kind of weird hours,but it's the European way, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
What do you think of the trail so far, anything that
sticks out to you Like?
As far as being different, I'veheard a lot of folks tell me I
haven't really like looked toomuch into the vertical course
but just the trails in general.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I've heard it's lot more wild than maybe other parts
even of europe and definitelylike different than the us yeah,
I think the pyrenees aredefinitely a bit rugged, for
sure, a little more rocky, uh,technical and a weird way of
just like the trail isn't super,maybe groomed like rocky grassy
not really much of a trail atall.
(04:39):
Um, luckily, the vk courselooks super nice, like super fat
, fast.
Um, geez, fat and flat and fast, uh, blending the two words.
Um, there's like a lot ofswitchbacks and it's like a
really mild gradient which Ithink will really suit me.
I prefer like more runnable VK,so I'm super excited for that.
(05:00):
Um.
Today, though, I actually wasjust kind of meandering the
trails off by my place and Iended up like getting on the 70k
course, I believe um looked,which looks super sweet, but
then there is a part you get upto the top and I swear there's
like not really a trail.
They stuck flags into like abunch of a rock side that you're
just like hiking up.
(05:20):
It's really steep.
So it does look like some ofthe courses for these other
races is a little more liketechnical random.
It kind of looked like the 70Kcourse, like there really wasn't
even a trail for a while.
You just kind of like pick yourroute up like a rocky hillside
and then you get up to the topof the super cool peak and then
you go down the backside andthen it turns into more of a
trail.
So I can definitely see wherethat kind of idea is coming from
(05:46):
.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, crazy, man, crazy.
I love this kind of I mean,we'll see what happens in 20.
What is it?
What would it be?
2027.
But I like that we do them inEurope.
I think Europe is just I don'tknow, the trails are very steep,
very rugged, very different.
I feel like that's just a goodall-around spot for just
mountain running in general.
Um, I want to switch gears alittle bit and talk about the
team.
Um, it's obviously yourself,tyler, uh, joseph gray, have you
(06:10):
been able to kind of connectwith other members of the team?
I know like cam has been reallygood as far as like putting
together camps and stuff likethat and being like making stuff
like very cohesive.
Um, how has it been as far ascommunication goes for this team
?
I know joe is, uh, just fromknowing joe very well and just
knowing his leadership style andstuff like that, I know he's
very big on like game planningand stuff like that, pre for
(06:31):
pre-worlds races and stuff likethat.
So have you been able toconnect with these guys and kind
of discuss it so far?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
no, not too much.
Uh, I mean, maybe I'll see himout here soon.
I do do know, like Joe and andCam and Tyler a little bit.
Cam, I probably know the least,but we have crossed paths a bit
over the last two years andit's been fun to race him a bit
more this year and see him do sowell.
Last year I was on a team, a USteam with Tyler and Joe, which
was fun.
We did a VK in Kiavenna so Igot to know them a little better
(07:01):
then.
But yeah, they're all greatguys and I'm excited to kind of
get to know them a little bitmore this trip and hopefully
have some good game plans on howto roll things out.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Sweet man, how has training been for this one?
Have you approached things alittle bit differently?
I've seen some of your stories.
I didn't lurk you too much onStrava, but I've seen some of
your stories on the track andjust doing more track-based
workouts and stuff like that.
Has that been a little bit?
More of the approach is justworking on turnover and speed
for a race like this.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Um, I think just training in general has been a
little different.
I've been working with DavidRoach and he definitely focuses
on running economy and aturnover a little bit more than
I did the previous year when Iwas kind of coaching myself Um,
and I think they both haveworked out really well.
Like I was a little hesitant,like maybe my climbing skills
wouldn't be as fine tuned as Iwas hoping because I just wasn't
doing as many hill workouts,but the hill workouts I have
(07:53):
done and just the overall verton recovery um has been really
great and I've been able to pusha few segments and get some
improve my times on it fromprevious years.
So I still feel really strong.
Yeah, I'm just strong andexcited and I think things will
go well.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Awesome, awesome, let's kind of shift gears.
This is going to be your third?
I think this will be.
Was this the third time?
Because I know you challengedStelina and I know last year you
represented Team USA, your 2024mountain running champ.
So will this be your third timerunning the stars and stripes?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
um, fourth, maybe four uh, I did make a.
I made a world uh cross teamlast year okay uh, I think three
trail and and yeah, three trailand one cross country.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
What does that mean to you, dude?
To represent your countryabroad?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh yeah, I love it.
I think it's a really coolopportunity, um very grateful
for the country I live in andthe freedoms we enjoy and just
uh what America stands for ingeneral, and I I it's really
cool and means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So what is going to be your expectation for this
team?
I mean, I feel like I feel like, across the board, we're
sending, in my opinion, justlooking at utmb indexes, entry
indexes, knowing a lot of theseguys and gals, I feel like we're
sending a squat dude.
What is your expectation forrace day?
Um, as far as just like what,what you think we can do, as far
(09:23):
as, uh, performance wise, yeah,I think we can definitely
podium.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I don't see why not, and I think there's definitely
like everyone in the back oftheir mind is shooting for that
gold.
You know, I think we got a lotof awesome individuals that
could fight for individual golds, but I also think collectively,
as a team, I think we can allfight for that gold.
Podium, um, and everyone lookssuper fit and it'll just be
great to leave it all out there.
(09:49):
I think the best part is I knoweveryone's going to leave it
all out there and give it theirall and, uh, kind of you know,
push for each other.
So it'll be fun to see how weuh match up against others in
the world yeah, I don't know ifmy eyes deceived me.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'm kind of go take this back to the vertical race
that you last you raced lastyear.
I think you were dude.
Were you running an alpha fliesor something like that?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I thought I saw you in no, I call it the the tiger
fly.
Uh, or, sorry, not the cut.
Jeez, I caught the streak trailis what I called it.
It was a streak fly that I hadthem dub up and just put a trail
bottom on.
Uh, the streak flies like a, aworkout sheet using collars.
That's non-plated, just alightweight uh trainer I don't
(10:31):
even know if I call it a trainerlike just a lightweight workout
shoe, uh, so they put just alittle trail bottom on it.
I use it for kia vena.
I use it because it's solightweight and in vks I just
care about like light weightnessand snappiness.
You know, I don't really careabout the stability of a shoe
because you're typically nothaving to worry about that all
too much, um, and the shoe isphenomenal for that.
(10:52):
But the trail bottom they dohave on it is just kind of a
generic uh rubber.
So it was like a littleslippery at kia vena because it
was like wet and on like stairs,like stone stairs, but it's
great for stuff like that.
I worked for the previous yearat uh broken arrow vk as well,
so I've used it twice now it'sit's a good shoe what do you
(11:15):
think will be?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
uh, race day shoe.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Then you got a something special planned uh
yeah, there's a shoe that nike'sbeen kind of working out like
hopefully come out with, I think, in the next year.
It's like a rendition of theKyger.
That's what I used.
I've used it a couple times forsome Golden Trail World Series
races and that's probably whatI'll go to for this one.
Just real lightweight, snappy.
(11:37):
It's a great shoe.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Nice, are you?
I mean, I assume you definitelywere invited because you're in
the ranking for the golden trailworld series final.
Are you going to hang out ineurope and then race, uh, in a
few weeks at the final, or?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
yeah, yeah, I'll be out there for that, so hoping to
be a little more fine-tuned andfresh and ready to rip.
But I'm excited.
I'll be just chilling out heretill then.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So nice man, nice get to.
You're gonna stay in spain oryou're to kind of explore.
What do you got planned?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
My wife and kids and I are going to head over to
Milan after this race.
I think the Monday after Worldsis over, so we'll chill here
through the whole Worlds thingand then we'll take a hopper
flight over and spend the nexttwo weeks or so in northern
Milan.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So, on the topic of being a dad and in the sport, um
, as a professional, like how doyou approach?
How does that?
How does that like how, what isyour why?
Basically, is your why a littlebit different?
Because you're a dad and it'syou know, it's not just for you,
it's for your family and it'sjust a different kind of thought
process like how does thataffect your why?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
um, that's a good question.
I don't know if it affects mywhy too much, but I do feel like
the support and and, um, Iguess just the support of it
like really changes.
Like I like my family's verysupportive and helpful and like,
uh, my oldest son has likegotten really into like watching
(13:10):
me run and stuff and he wantsto run.
And when I go out for a run, mymy second kid, boston or Miles,
would be like I want to comerun with you.
I was like dude, I'm going outfor like two hours you can't
follow me.
And he's like no, I want to gorunning.
And so I'll have to like run upand down the street a couple
times with him before I head out, because he really wants to go
running with his dad.
So it's been super fun.
Um, but yeah, I like Idefinitely run, I think, for a
(13:33):
bigger picture than just myself.
Like that adds to the why forsure, like my wife and my kids
supporting me and them cheeringme on.
Um, after broken arrow, uh,when I won the vk, my oldest son
, miles, was super stoked.
But then the next day, uh, he'slike hey, like go win the next
race.
I was like, yeah, I'll win itfor you.
And then I took like fourth andthen I saw him after the race
(13:55):
and he was like super mad andjust in like the worst mood ever
and I was like what's going on,bud?
And he's just like you likedidn't want to talk to me.
And then like an hour later, mymom sent a text out to our
family because she was there.
He's like Miles was in a reallybad mood.
He said he hated the guy thatwon the race because he beat
daddy.
And we had to like take amoment to explain to him like
you can't win every races andand stuff.
(14:17):
So it was a real funny, funny,like learning experience with
them.
And he like got over it.
But he's definitely like it'sfun having that.
Why for my kids, I guess likecheering me on and wanting me to
do well, and when I'm in thehurt I'm like okay, like I gotta
keep going, like uh, for betteror worse, I've had some races,
more 50ks, where I passed myfamily, like oh, I'm gonna drop
out now, and then I pass themand then they're like they're
(14:40):
cheering me on.
I was like, oh, my gosh, Igotta keep going.
And then I keep going and I Iended up like dnfing in that
race or something, and the otherone like I ended up finishing
but they ended up pulling my uhbib.
So I've like kind of dnf 250ks.
But both times I was like dude,I'm like gas, like I have no
energy, I gotta stop.
Now and then, like I passed myfamily, like oh, I passed my
(15:00):
family, like oh, keep going.
I was like oh gosh, I got tokeep going.
So, but definitely I think theylike cheer me on and root for
me and it definitely gives melike a deeper why and meaning to
why I'm running uh other thanjust myself.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So I can ask you also about your faith.
I know it's very important toyou.
Can you talk a little bit aboutum like how, not not just how
that factors in your why as well, but just your, that importance
to you as a person and justmaybe outside of running or
running?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
yeah, totally.
Um, I think it shapes me a lot.
My faith and my, my faith andmy family, I think, go hand in
hand, uh, but we just we firmlybelieve in in god and a loving,
a loving god, a heavenly God, aheavenly father to us, and he
gives us talents and gifts.
And, uh, my journey in life hasdefinitely been like a lot
different than I expected, but,uh, it's awesome to like look
(15:50):
back on and see God's hand andlike shaping me and molding me
and building me into the man Iam now.
Uh, and father, husband, friend,a runner, and, um, obviously
like as a loving heavenly father, husband, friend, a runner, and
obviously like as a lovingHeavenly Father, like I think he
wants us all to succeed, butsometimes succeeding is a little
different than we expect, andso it's just like having the
(16:16):
humility to like really turn toGod and say like, hey, it's like
your plan, your road for me,and like, obviously, in the
moment it's hard not to befrustrated when things don't go
your way, whether it's an injurythat puts you out for a couple
months or like just a badperformance.
But I've had multiple times inmy life where things haven't
really made sense in the momentand then I'm able to reflect on
it maybe a few years uh into thefuture and once I get to that
(16:37):
point and see like, oh, wow,like God really was shaping me
and helping me, build me in acertain way, or I was able to
take experiences from certaintrials and uh setbacks I've had
in the past to apply them intofuture ones.
And so, um, yeah, I I think myfaith and just being a Christian
and trying to be the bestfollower of Christ that I can be
uh has really helped me grow asa person and grow as a runner
(16:59):
and take all these experiencesand uh, hopefully use them for a
better good amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I appreciate that answer very candid.
Yeah, um, let's.
I want to shift gears a littlebit and talk about um.
You were dealing with a stressreaction.
Uh, earlier in the season, kindof leading into sunopee, I
actually was on the live streamand got to call your race at
sunopee.
Which dude, you took it out hot.
I was, I was like damn, this is,this is amazing.
What did it mean to you to kindof like, I think, what did you?
(17:28):
You dropped out of Sunapee, Ithink, if I remember correctly,
and then yeah, and then it wascrazy because I also did you
know race previews for BrokenArrow and stuff like that.
What did it mean to you to kindof have that dropout coming
back from injury and then turnit around and then absolutely
snap like, hit one out of thepark at the ascent of Broken
Arrow, like what was that?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
as far as meaning goes, yeah, I mean I think this
kind of goes back to the supportI have from, like, my family,
my friends, my wife, my coach.
David Roach has been amazing towork with, leading up into
Centipede.
I think I'd only ran on theground like twice.
I had been doing like uphilltreadmill running, but like just
purely on the ground where I dodescent and whatnot.
(18:09):
I'd only ran twice.
My stress reactions took waylonger than any other stress
reaction I've had in the past.
I had completely no running forlike six months and every time
I thought about trying sorry,six weeks, not six months Every
time I thought about trying I'msorry, six weeks, not six months
um, every time I thought I wasgonna try running david's like
hey, I think we can give it a goit was like I was like, oh my
gosh, like my I don't know why,but my shin is just still like
(18:29):
aching and throbbing, like I'mnot even like running or trying
to run, so we had to keeppushing that off.
And then, obviously, with likea us championship on the line,
I'm like I gotta give it a go.
Like I, it's my first chance tomake a world's team.
In the past I've been in college, um, and I had some like pretty
good, like just uphilltreadmill workouts.
It's hard to really likecorrelate that, you know, with
like being on a treadmill versusnormal terrain and whatnot, and
(18:52):
obviously I'd had like zerodownhill running, um, leading
into that race.
Like the week before I did oneone run where I ran, like I
think I climbed like 1500, maybe1600 feet.
So I obviously dissented thatmuch too and I could not believe
how sore I was from like just apathetic amount of elevation
(19:15):
dissenting like.
For me like well, usually whenI'm in my bulk, like 1600 is
like a recovery day.
I'll do before like a speedflat workout the next day and it
doesn't take anything out of me.
But like it got me pretty sorefor a couple of days because I
had done really zero dissenting.
So I was definitely like alittle nervous but I was like
okay, like I feel like I've hadsome decent like some pretty
hard workouts on the bike usingZwift and then also just like a
(19:39):
few uphill treadmill workouts.
And we went out there andobviously things did not like.
I was like talking to david andhe we were kind of the plan was
like to go out with the guysand see how things are going um.
And then the second lap reallytake things out if I'm feeling
good on that second climb.
And we went on that first climband like we were kind of just
running with the pack.
But then I kind of started topush a little bit, cause I was
(20:00):
like I got to see if I can breakthese guys, especially with
this, how wet and crappy theconditions were.
I knew, like, with how tentativeI'd be running on my shins, I
was afraid to like really poundon the downhill.
But, um, props, to like all theguys around me, like they were,
I was like hoping, slash,thinking maybe I could break
them or like maybe I'd just bein a little better uphill shape,
(20:21):
but like they stuck right withme and then, like they took off
ahead of me and then I was likeprobably five meters back from
like, uh, the guys that were upin front and I was like, oh gosh
, like this is, this is notgoing to be great if I can't
even like I'm not.
I mean I was like five metersor 10 meters off them, uh, off
the three guys at the top of thepeak I think it was Cam Mason
(20:42):
and Tyler Tyler actually and Iwas like, oh man, like if I'm
not even like quite with them onthe uphill, like this down, it
was going to be a disaster,cause I know I'm going to really
struggle.
And so, yeah, then we went intothe second lap and my shins
were kind of like starting tobother me with that real steep
downhill and I was like, yeah,I'm not gonna catch these guys
on this uphill, my legs justaren't working, they're just not
moving.
(21:02):
So, um, I I climbed part of thefirst hill and my I just
couldn't move and I was like,yeah, let's just call it here.
And it was like easy to like, Ithink get in a slump, be like,
oh, shoot, like I'm really notthis biking hasn't translated
I'm not as fit as I was hoping.
You know, like a lot of doubtscrept in my head but my coach,
david, and my wife were verysupportive and like still, uh,
(21:25):
be like.
No, like this is good, this isa good stimulus, kind of a rust
buster.
Like things didn't go how wewere hoping, but like with how
limited running you've done,like we couldn't have expected
anything super crazy.
And then, luckily, I was ableto get I think it was like maybe
three weeks in between then andbroke in the arrow or so and I
was able to get in some bettertraining, some more.
Um, stim is uphill and downhill,uh, and the shins progressed a
(21:48):
bit more after I started runningand so, um, yeah, it was very
fortunate.
Like it was hard, because Ithink you always have those
doubts in the back of your mindlike lining up, like, oh, am I
really as fit as I think?
Like last race didn't go superwell.
Um, I did like a little segmentpush close to my house and
broke a previous record that Ihadn't been able to get in a
while.
So I was like, okay, likethings are coming around, so
(22:10):
just small little wins here andthere and then just trying to
have the confidence and trust inmy training and, uh, my coach
really helped with that and then, yeah, it was kind of, I think,
the turning point for the ofthe season.
I've been real healthy andeverything's gone pretty good
since amazing.
For the most part.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
No, I mean, dude, you've been hitting it out of
the park.
I got to ask you about, um,just the performance of broken
arrow, in the sense where, um,obviously it's super kind of
chaotic start.
You know, it's this massstartup, this weird ski Hill
kind of thing.
There's no particular trail.
(22:47):
Obviously they changed thecourse as well.
Uh, kind of last second on you.
I mean, dude, you broke therace wide open like joe was not
catching you.
You, you had some like actual,like serious time on a lot of
these guys.
How did the race just?
I'm out of pure curiosity, howdid the race unfold for you?
How did you even assertposition to get in front of a
lot of folks?
Like, how were you able to kindof pull that off?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
yeah, um, one of the hesitancies, I think, coming
from son of p to there is like,uh, david, was really like let's
work on running economy like weknow you got some good uphill
fitness from your biking butlike let's do running economy.
And in the back of my mind Iwas like no, I need to like do
some more uphill training.
Like I wasn't able to keep withthese guys, even on the uphill,
like I mean, I was like rightthere with them, but I was like
(23:23):
I should be able to break theseguys like I think with my, my
talent kind of being more in theuphills, like I should be able
to break away from these guysand push hard, but I wasn't able
to.
But he's like no, like we gotto first like just turn, having
ran such little in the lastlittle while.
Like we got to get your runningeconomy and efficiency back.
So so I did quite a few likeflat workouts and then I think,
like leading into the race, Idid like my first like bigger
(23:45):
uphill workout and honestly Iwas just like climbing on the
off days.
But so, going to that race, likeif you look at the profile of
it, it starts off extremelysteep, but then it kind of
levels out and gets pretty flat,relatively speaking, and then
it has a little bit of anotherclimate, flattens out again and
then it has like the climb again.
And David was just like yo,like we know you're really fit,
(24:07):
like you've had some good flatworkouts, your turnover and
efficiencies coming, so like theplan was go out like don't go
out too relatively hard, uh, onthat first like steep climb, you
know it's not super long, andthen once you hit that road like
really open up things.
And so I think by the top ofthat first like ski hill climb,
I was maybe I don't know 15th or10th or 15th somewhere around
(24:29):
there and some of the guys had adecent lead, like probably 20,
30 meters or so.
But as soon as I hit that likemy, my like turnover and all the
workouts I've been, I just likechewed up everyone.
I just like sped past everyoneand no one was really moving, um
, and I think like not going outtoo hard helped me not get too
lactic, and then I took off andthen that's when I caught up to
(24:49):
like Killian and Killian waslike kind of chilling there and
obviously he had an absurdlylong like travel day the day
before he was telling me aboutlike travel day.
The day before he was telling meabout, um, but like I
remembered, we kind of got sideto side and then he like surged
a little bit and I matched itand then I kind of like surged a
little bit because I was liketrying to get a feel of like how
he was feeling and I went.
(25:11):
But then he didn't really likego with me and I was like, oh
man, like he must be hurting orjust real tired from the travel
day before.
So then I just kept pushing thethrottle and luckily, like
that's where it gets like realflat there for a while and I
just kept pushing.
Like we hit a little punchyclimb again for a sec and like
kind of dug into that.
And then once I hit the flatagain, I really opened up and
got that turnover going againand just kind of broke away from
the pack.
(25:32):
So, um, it was nice to havethose kind of like that workout.
So in the stimulus I hadpreviously leading up to that to
get that turnover going, um,and then I just try to keep the
throttle going to the finish.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
But yeah, dude, all right.
So I gotta ask you this thismight be a weird question, but
what was it like to beat two ofthe greatest mountain runners to
ever do it?
Probably two, I mean two goatsliterally in joe and killian.
Was that a little weird?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
uh, I mean, yeah, they're both amazing talents.
It's super fun to be able torace against them and, having
done it a couple of times, like,obviously, like they're kind of
a little older in their careers, so it's amazing to see how fit
they are at such a ripe age.
But I like, I feel like if Iwant to be the best, I got to
(26:18):
compete against the best and andhave the faith that I can beat
the best.
And like, competing againstpeople like Phil, mon and
Patrick, and now Hazim and andRemy and all these other guys in
golden trail has given me likesome confidence and like and
also, I guess, humility, goingup against these people to like
understand, like where you canpush and where you should hold
back and and play your strengths, but also, um, if you don't
(26:43):
swing for the fences, you'llnever know if, if you can.
So, uh, yeah, I just kind oftry to rely on my strengths and
uh and push when I can and justgive it my all, and it's super
fun to compete against the best.
I try not to shy away fromcompetition.
I try to get to the races wherethe best will be there, because
you know, um, iron sharpensiron and the more I can be
(27:04):
around them, the better I'll get.
Dude Amazing.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
All right, we're kind of limited on time here.
I want to get to a coupleending questions.
Uh, first one is where did thenamesake slim come from?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
from yes, uh.
So I served a religious missionfor two years in Japan.
Um, and missionaries tend toget a little fat on their
mission not all missions, butsome missions where they get fed
by members a lot.
They just kind of get biggerand stuff and I was always just
kind of like a skinny guy ingeneral, coming out of like high
school being a scrawny runnerand so like people just kind of
started calling me slim and uh,and then I was known for calling
all my friends on my missionslim and and it just kind of
(27:42):
stuck Like I was like theultimate slim.
I'm sorry I got to apologize.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I'm like no, I know there's flies where there's a
bajillion flies.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's like fly galore here in Europe.
I think the window systemthey've made here is phenomenal,
where you can open the windowsand prod them in both directions
, but I can't believe that.
Uh, insect, what do they callthose?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
um, oh my gosh like a screen kind of thing screen.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes, like window screens haven't made it here in
europe yet.
It's like hot because there'sno ac, so you gotta leave your
window open and then all youknow is like a bajillion flies
are flying around your house allday.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But do you put like product in your hair, because
they're very interested in thehair.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I think that could be uh I don't know, I just use
this powder stuff because I hatelike the texture you feel when
you have stuff, so it keeps itfluffy but it keeps it real like
that's how you keep it up likeI mean dude.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
This is.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
These are the questions the audience wants
yeah, I try not to put like anycrazy products.
I hate when it feels all grimyor sticky like pomade or uh
matte finish stuff, so I justuse like this powder stuff I
came across and it works greatwow, well, the secrets of the
hair, we all.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's amazing.
All right, last question um,this is serious blood.
What would it mean to you tocome home with a medal,
especially at a worldchampionship like this?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh, I'd be stoked.
Yeah, I mean, it's like one ofmy big dreams and goals over the
next couple of years.
With the way training's gone, Ithink I just got to trust in
the training and I'm going toget one more good, solid push in
tomorrow and then just reallyfocus on recovering and feeling
fresh.
Pushing tomorrow and then like,just really focus on recovering
(29:21):
and feeling fresh.
Um, I think I've had a bit oftimes over the last few years
like maybe coming into races alittle too overcooked.
I think, coming from a collegebackground where like there's
really only one or two racesthat matter in this season, a
lot of times you kind of trainthrough the races.
I've kind of, likeabsentmindedly, done that into
these races, even even though,like every race is really
important, whether it's thegolden trail race or something.
But I sometimes go into raceslike, oh, I can do a workout
(29:44):
early in the week and I'll befine for the race, but it's like
then you get a littleovercooked or something.
So I think just coming in realfresh and then confident in the
training, like it would be adream of mine.
I think like I definitely havea decent chance if I like I'm
feeling good and I push theright way, but, um, the course
looks like very favorable to thekind of course I would enjoy,
(30:05):
and so I'm excited to go outthere and could be against the
best and obviously the reigningchamp and Patrick and and my
other amazing teammates, so it'dbe awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, dude, it's going to be so much fun to
follow along.
Um, oh dude.
Yeah, dude, it's gonna be somuch fun to follow along.
Um, oh dude.
One last question I've beenmeaning to ask you about for the
acg, acg stuff, just becausethe last last nike athlete I had
on was liam and it was justbefore the acg stuff dropped, so
you couldn't really talk aboutit that much.
Can you just maybe talk?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
talk a little bit about this transition that nike
trail has kind of gone into acgand just kind of some of these
changes that have been madelately totally, yeah, um,
obviously, the brand like likekind of was like looking at
themselves or nike as a wholeand was like yo, we got two
different apartments that arekind of like, you know, butting
(30:49):
heads or like kind of competingagainst each other.
It's like why don't we take acgand nike trail and combine them
together and put the resourcesand the efforts together and
make this really great band?
And they want to become like avery competitive brand when it
comes to outdoors in general,like competing with like the
black diamonds or other likethat just provides, uh, pinnacle
(31:12):
gear to like runners, hikers,outdoor goers.
Obviously running is going tobe like the pinnacle of that,
like the top of the spear, butthey really just want to make
quality, high performance gearfor like running to outdoors
stuff, and so it's been reallycool to see them like kind of
(31:33):
put the resources together andprovide a little more support
for us, I think also goingforward.
So it'll be super cool to seehow the brand shapes and grows,
going forward Super cool.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I appreciate you being candid and being open
about that.
One more thing before we go Didyou see some of these good
memes with you, Some of thesegood memes coming out of
Chabonier?
I was like dude, this isamazing.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yes, yes, my friend Liam was out there with me and
he like showed me one.
I have an Instagram time limitand I don't know the password to
it, so I don't spend too muchon it.
My wife knows it that way.
You know, I'm not sitting theremindlessly scrolling or wasting
my life too much, but I thinkmy time had just ran out.
The day that your boy, scottJerk, had posted one and Liam
(32:16):
was just like dying laughing.
He's like yo, have you seenthis?
I was like what are you talkingabout?
And he like showed me on hisphone.
And then I saw a few otherslike kind of come through the
friends had sent me over thedays.
So, yeah, it was pretty funny,good stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Good stuff.
Well, Christian, I'm wishingyou the best of luck on race day
, man.
I hope you guys bring it homefor team USA and I hope you have
an amazing day out there and agreat trip.
And good luck at the goldentrail final as well.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Hey, thanks Sam, I really appreciate you having me
on.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Absolutely man.
Thank you you.
It's time.
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
(01:04):
Christian Allen.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, man?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Good man, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Dude, I'm so excited to finally have a chat with you.
I feel like we've been I triedto put this together pre-Broken
Arrow and a few other times andI'm glad this is perfect timing
for pre-World.
So I feel like you're the.
I think I texted you.
I was like, dude, you're likemy, my white whale, like I
haven't all people like I stillhaven't gotten you on yet.
So I'm glad we were able to dothis.
(01:32):
Man, it has been a hot minute.
Yeah, um, dude, so you're over,obviously in the greater
confrank area Now.
You just kind of got in a fewdays ago.
Maybe talk about yourexperience so far.
I know it's been kind of abumpy ride.
I think it was like 30something hours it took you to
get out here.
Maybe talk about just like whatthe travel has been like
getting out there and how you'refeeling so far.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, it was a little bit of a long day.
I didn't sleep a lot on theflight I just can't sleep on
flights or trains all that muchbut also when I left Utah, I
left Utah like 9.40am, so mostof the travel here was like
daytime back home, uh.
But then when I got here it waslike 7 30 am, um, and I was
like I was told by a friend thatlike the train system was
(02:13):
pretty chill and easy and theywere right for the most part,
but the only problem was like toget up to can frank.
There's only two trains a dayand so there's like one early in
the morning and then there'sone late at night.
And I got it there.
I got to like Barcelona at 730.
But the only way I could get upto Canfrank was taking the
train that didn't get thereuntil, like I think it arrived
(02:35):
at Canfrank station at like745pm.
So I was like, oh boy, I'vealready like had this long
travel day and it looks like I'mjust going to be awake all day.
Like I was expecting to getlike a run-in and all this stuff
.
But I had all my bag I wascarrying around, or my big bag I
was carrying around and whatnot.
So it was just a long day oftravel there, a lot of like
trains and then sitting aroundwaiting for the next train
(02:56):
because they weren't super likelined up, probably just because
it's a smaller, more rural area.
But now that I'm here it's beengreat.
In a smaller town that's not.
That doesn't have a lot either.
Actually I'm just in canfrank,but not the canfrank estacion.
Estacion has like a few grocerystores, smaller grocery stores
and some, um, just places to eat.
(03:18):
But my like little city, whichis only like five kilometers
down the road, only has like onerestaurant and no, uh, no ATMs.
No, no restaurant.
I mean uh, no, uh grocerystores.
So just uh, at the whim ofpublic transportation here,
which are not the most frequent.
But it's nice, it's been goodChill, the running has been
(03:38):
great.
So I can't complain.
The running is great, nice,nice.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's funny man.
I was talking to Michelino andhe was kind of joking around.
He's like dude, there's a lotof a lot of siestas here.
He's like you can't grab dinnertill like eight or nine o'clock
, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, they definitely have a different timeframe here
.
It's like we're coming fromAmerica where, like you just
expect grocery stores to be openlike all day until like 11 PM
and they like are open for asmidgen here and then they close
and then they open later.
It's just kind of weird hours,but it's the European way, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
What do you think of the trail so far, anything that
sticks out to you Like?
As far as being different, I'veheard a lot of folks tell me I
haven't really like looked toomuch into the vertical course
but just the trails in general.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I've heard it's lot more wild than maybe other parts
even of europe and definitelylike different than the us yeah,
I think the pyrenees aredefinitely a bit rugged, for
sure, a little more rocky, uh,technical and a weird way of
just like the trail isn't super,maybe groomed like rocky grassy
not really much of a trail atall.
(04:39):
Um, luckily, the vk courselooks super nice, like super fat
, fast.
Um, geez, fat and flat and fast, uh, blending the two words.
Um, there's like a lot ofswitchbacks and it's like a
really mild gradient which Ithink will really suit me.
I prefer like more runnable VK,so I'm super excited for that.
(05:00):
Um.
Today, though, I actually wasjust kind of meandering the
trails off by my place and Iended up like getting on the 70k
course, I believe um looked,which looks super sweet, but
then there is a part you get upto the top and I swear there's
like not really a trail.
They stuck flags into like abunch of a rock side that you're
just like hiking up.
(05:20):
It's really steep.
So it does look like some ofthe courses for these other
races is a little more liketechnical random.
It kind of looked like the 70Kcourse, like there really wasn't
even a trail for a while.
You just kind of like pick yourroute up like a rocky hillside
and then you get up to the topof the super cool peak and then
you go down the backside andthen it turns into more of a
trail.
So I can definitely see wherethat kind of idea is coming from
(05:46):
.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, crazy, man, crazy.
I love this kind of I mean,we'll see what happens in 20.
What is it?
What would it be?
2027.
But I like that we do them inEurope.
I think Europe is just I don'tknow, the trails are very steep,
very rugged, very different.
I feel like that's just a goodall-around spot for just
mountain running in general.
Um, I want to switch gears alittle bit and talk about the
team.
Um, it's obviously yourself,tyler, uh, joseph gray, have you
(06:10):
been able to kind of connectwith other members of the team?
I know like cam has been reallygood as far as like putting
together camps and stuff likethat and being like making stuff
like very cohesive.
Um, how has it been as far ascommunication goes for this team
?
I know joe is, uh, just fromknowing joe very well and just
knowing his leadership style andstuff like that, I know he's
very big on like game planningand stuff like that, pre for
(06:31):
pre-worlds races and stuff likethat.
So have you been able toconnect with these guys and kind
of discuss it so far?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
no, not too much.
Uh, I mean, maybe I'll see himout here soon.
I do do know, like Joe and andCam and Tyler a little bit.
Cam, I probably know the least,but we have crossed paths a bit
over the last two years andit's been fun to race him a bit
more this year and see him do sowell.
Last year I was on a team, a USteam with Tyler and Joe, which
was fun.
We did a VK in Kiavenna so Igot to know them a little better
(07:01):
then.
But yeah, they're all greatguys and I'm excited to kind of
get to know them a little bitmore this trip and hopefully
have some good game plans on howto roll things out.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Sweet man, how has training been for this one?
Have you approached things alittle bit differently?
I've seen some of your stories.
I didn't lurk you too much onStrava, but I've seen some of
your stories on the track andjust doing more track-based
workouts and stuff like that.
Has that been a little bit?
More of the approach is justworking on turnover and speed
for a race like this.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Um, I think just training in general has been a
little different.
I've been working with DavidRoach and he definitely focuses
on running economy and aturnover a little bit more than
I did the previous year when Iwas kind of coaching myself Um,
and I think they both haveworked out really well.
Like I was a little hesitant,like maybe my climbing skills
wouldn't be as fine tuned as Iwas hoping because I just wasn't
doing as many hill workouts,but the hill workouts I have
(07:53):
done and just the overall verton recovery um has been really
great and I've been able to pusha few segments and get some
improve my times on it fromprevious years.
So I still feel really strong.
Yeah, I'm just strong andexcited and I think things will
go well.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Awesome, awesome, let's kind of shift gears.
This is going to be your third?
I think this will be.
Was this the third time?
Because I know you challengedStelina and I know last year you
represented Team USA, your 2024mountain running champ.
So will this be your third timerunning the stars and stripes?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
um, fourth, maybe four uh, I did make a.
I made a world uh cross teamlast year okay uh, I think three
trail and and yeah, three trailand one cross country.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
What does that mean to you, dude?
To represent your countryabroad?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh yeah, I love it.
I think it's a really coolopportunity, um very grateful
for the country I live in andthe freedoms we enjoy and just
uh what America stands for ingeneral, and I I it's really
cool and means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So what is going to be your expectation for this
team?
I mean, I feel like I feel like, across the board, we're
sending, in my opinion, justlooking at utmb indexes, entry
indexes, knowing a lot of theseguys and gals, I feel like we're
sending a squat dude.
What is your expectation forrace day?
Um, as far as just like what,what you think we can do, as far
(09:23):
as, uh, performance wise, yeah,I think we can definitely
podium.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I don't see why not, and I think there's definitely
like everyone in the back oftheir mind is shooting for that
gold.
You know, I think we got a lotof awesome individuals that
could fight for individual golds, but I also think collectively,
as a team, I think we can allfight for that gold.
Podium, um, and everyone lookssuper fit and it'll just be
great to leave it all out there.
(09:49):
I think the best part is I knoweveryone's going to leave it
all out there and give it theirall and, uh, kind of you know,
push for each other.
So it'll be fun to see how weuh match up against others in
the world yeah, I don't know ifmy eyes deceived me.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'm kind of go take this back to the vertical race
that you last you raced lastyear.
I think you were dude.
Were you running an alpha fliesor something like that?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I thought I saw you in no, I call it the the tiger
fly.
Uh, or, sorry, not the cut.
Jeez, I caught the streak trailis what I called it.
It was a streak fly that I hadthem dub up and just put a trail
bottom on.
Uh, the streak flies like a, aworkout sheet using collars.
That's non-plated, just alightweight uh trainer I don't
(10:31):
even know if I call it a trainerlike just a lightweight workout
shoe, uh, so they put just alittle trail bottom on it.
I use it for kia vena.
I use it because it's solightweight and in vks I just
care about like light weightnessand snappiness.
You know, I don't really careabout the stability of a shoe
because you're typically nothaving to worry about that all
too much, um, and the shoe isphenomenal for that.
(10:52):
But the trail bottom they dohave on it is just kind of a
generic uh rubber.
So it was like a littleslippery at kia vena because it
was like wet and on like stairs,like stone stairs, but it's
great for stuff like that.
I worked for the previous yearat uh broken arrow vk as well,
so I've used it twice now it'sit's a good shoe what do you
(11:15):
think will be?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
uh, race day shoe.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Then you got a something special planned uh
yeah, there's a shoe that nike'sbeen kind of working out like
hopefully come out with, I think, in the next year.
It's like a rendition of theKyger.
That's what I used.
I've used it a couple times forsome Golden Trail World Series
races and that's probably whatI'll go to for this one.
Just real lightweight, snappy.
(11:37):
It's a great shoe.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Nice, are you?
I mean, I assume you definitelywere invited because you're in
the ranking for the golden trailworld series final.
Are you going to hang out ineurope and then race, uh, in a
few weeks at the final, or?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
yeah, yeah, I'll be out there for that, so hoping to
be a little more fine-tuned andfresh and ready to rip.
But I'm excited.
I'll be just chilling out heretill then.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So nice man, nice get to.
You're gonna stay in spain oryou're to kind of explore.
What do you got planned?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
My wife and kids and I are going to head over to
Milan after this race.
I think the Monday after Worldsis over, so we'll chill here
through the whole Worlds thingand then we'll take a hopper
flight over and spend the nexttwo weeks or so in northern
Milan.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So, on the topic of being a dad and in the sport, um
, as a professional, like how doyou approach?
How does that?
How does that like how, what isyour why?
Basically, is your why a littlebit different?
Because you're a dad and it'syou know, it's not just for you,
it's for your family and it'sjust a different kind of thought
process like how does thataffect your why?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
um, that's a good question.
I don't know if it affects mywhy too much, but I do feel like
the support and and, um, Iguess just the support of it
like really changes.
Like I like my family's verysupportive and helpful and like,
uh, my oldest son has likegotten really into like watching
(13:10):
me run and stuff and he wantsto run.
And when I go out for a run, mymy second kid, boston or Miles,
would be like I want to comerun with you.
I was like dude, I'm going outfor like two hours you can't
follow me.
And he's like no, I want to gorunning.
And so I'll have to like run upand down the street a couple
times with him before I head out, because he really wants to go
running with his dad.
So it's been super fun.
Um, but yeah, I like Idefinitely run, I think, for a
(13:33):
bigger picture than just myself.
Like that adds to the why forsure, like my wife and my kids
supporting me and them cheeringme on.
Um, after broken arrow, uh,when I won the vk, my oldest son
, miles, was super stoked.
But then the next day, uh, he'slike hey, like go win the next
race.
I was like, yeah, I'll win itfor you.
And then I took like fourth andthen I saw him after the race
(13:55):
and he was like super mad andjust in like the worst mood ever
and I was like what's going on,bud?
And he's just like you likedidn't want to talk to me.
And then like an hour later, mymom sent a text out to our
family because she was there.
He's like Miles was in a reallybad mood.
He said he hated the guy thatwon the race because he beat
daddy.
And we had to like take amoment to explain to him like
you can't win every races andand stuff.
(14:17):
So it was a real funny, funny,like learning experience with
them.
And he like got over it.
But he's definitely like it'sfun having that.
Why for my kids, I guess likecheering me on and wanting me to
do well, and when I'm in thehurt I'm like okay, like I gotta
keep going, like uh, for betteror worse, I've had some races,
more 50ks, where I passed myfamily, like oh, I'm gonna drop
out now, and then I pass themand then they're like they're
(14:40):
cheering me on.
I was like, oh, my gosh, Igotta keep going.
And then I keep going and I Iended up like dnfing in that
race or something, and the otherone like I ended up finishing
but they ended up pulling my uhbib.
So I've like kind of dnf 250ks.
But both times I was like dude,I'm like gas, like I have no
energy, I gotta stop.
Now and then, like I passed myfamily, like oh, I passed my
(15:00):
family, like oh, keep going.
I was like oh gosh, I got tokeep going.
So, but definitely I think theylike cheer me on and root for
me and it definitely gives melike a deeper why and meaning to
why I'm running uh other thanjust myself.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So I can ask you also about your faith.
I know it's very important toyou.
Can you talk a little bit aboutum like how, not not just how
that factors in your why as well, but just your, that importance
to you as a person and justmaybe outside of running or
running?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
yeah, totally.
Um, I think it shapes me a lot.
My faith and my, my faith andmy family, I think, go hand in
hand, uh, but we just we firmlybelieve in in god and a loving,
a loving god, a heavenly God, aheavenly father to us, and he
gives us talents and gifts.
And, uh, my journey in life hasdefinitely been like a lot
different than I expected, but,uh, it's awesome to like look
(15:50):
back on and see God's hand andlike shaping me and molding me
and building me into the man Iam now.
Uh, and father, husband, friend,a runner, and, um, obviously
like as a loving heavenly father, husband, friend, a runner, and
obviously like as a lovingHeavenly Father, like I think he
wants us all to succeed, butsometimes succeeding is a little
different than we expect, andso it's just like having the
(16:16):
humility to like really turn toGod and say like, hey, it's like
your plan, your road for me,and like, obviously, in the
moment it's hard not to befrustrated when things don't go
your way, whether it's an injurythat puts you out for a couple
months or like just a badperformance.
But I've had multiple times inmy life where things haven't
really made sense in the momentand then I'm able to reflect on
it maybe a few years uh into thefuture and once I get to that
(16:37):
point and see like, oh, wow,like God really was shaping me
and helping me, build me in acertain way, or I was able to
take experiences from certaintrials and uh setbacks I've had
in the past to apply them intofuture ones.
And so, um, yeah, I I think myfaith and just being a Christian
and trying to be the bestfollower of Christ that I can be
uh has really helped me grow asa person and grow as a runner
(16:59):
and take all these experiencesand uh, hopefully use them for a
better good amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I appreciate that answer very candid.
Yeah, um, let's.
I want to shift gears a littlebit and talk about um.
You were dealing with a stressreaction.
Uh, earlier in the season, kindof leading into sunopee, I
actually was on the live streamand got to call your race at
sunopee.
Which dude, you took it out hot.
I was, I was like damn, this is,this is amazing.
What did it mean to you to kindof like, I think, what did you?
(17:28):
You dropped out of Sunapee, Ithink, if I remember correctly,
and then yeah, and then it wascrazy because I also did you
know race previews for BrokenArrow and stuff like that.
What did it mean to you to kindof have that dropout coming
back from injury and then turnit around and then absolutely
snap like, hit one out of thepark at the ascent of Broken
Arrow, like what was that?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
as far as meaning goes, yeah, I mean I think this
kind of goes back to the supportI have from, like, my family,
my friends, my wife, my coach.
David Roach has been amazing towork with, leading up into
Centipede.
I think I'd only ran on theground like twice.
I had been doing like uphilltreadmill running, but like just
purely on the ground where I dodescent and whatnot.
(18:09):
I'd only ran twice.
My stress reactions took waylonger than any other stress
reaction I've had in the past.
I had completely no running forlike six months and every time
I thought about trying sorry,six weeks, not six months Every
time I thought about trying I'msorry, six weeks, not six months
um, every time I thought I wasgonna try running david's like
hey, I think we can give it a goit was like I was like, oh my
gosh, like my I don't know why,but my shin is just still like
(18:29):
aching and throbbing, like I'mnot even like running or trying
to run, so we had to keeppushing that off.
And then, obviously, with likea us championship on the line,
I'm like I gotta give it a go.
Like I, it's my first chance tomake a world's team.
In the past I've been in college, um, and I had some like pretty
good, like just uphilltreadmill workouts.
It's hard to really likecorrelate that, you know, with
like being on a treadmill versusnormal terrain and whatnot, and
(18:52):
obviously I'd had like zerodownhill running, um, leading
into that race.
Like the week before I did oneone run where I ran, like I
think I climbed like 1500, maybe1600 feet.
So I obviously dissented thatmuch too and I could not believe
how sore I was from like just apathetic amount of elevation
(19:15):
dissenting like.
For me like well, usually whenI'm in my bulk, like 1600 is
like a recovery day.
I'll do before like a speedflat workout the next day and it
doesn't take anything out of me.
But like it got me pretty sorefor a couple of days because I
had done really zero dissenting.
So I was definitely like alittle nervous but I was like
okay, like I feel like I've hadsome decent like some pretty
hard workouts on the bike usingZwift and then also just like a
(19:39):
few uphill treadmill workouts.
And we went out there andobviously things did not like.
I was like talking to david andhe we were kind of the plan was
like to go out with the guysand see how things are going um.
And then the second lap reallytake things out if I'm feeling
good on that second climb.
And we went on that first climband like we were kind of just
running with the pack.
But then I kind of started topush a little bit, cause I was
(20:00):
like I got to see if I can breakthese guys, especially with
this, how wet and crappy theconditions were.
I knew, like, with how tentativeI'd be running on my shins, I
was afraid to like really poundon the downhill.
But, um, props, to like all theguys around me, like they were,
I was like hoping, slash,thinking maybe I could break
them or like maybe I'd just bein a little better uphill shape,
(20:21):
but like they stuck right withme and then, like they took off
ahead of me and then I was likeprobably five meters back from
like, uh, the guys that were upin front and I was like, oh gosh
, like this is, this is notgoing to be great if I can't
even like I'm not.
I mean I was like five metersor 10 meters off them, uh, off
the three guys at the top of thepeak I think it was Cam Mason
(20:42):
and Tyler Tyler actually and Iwas like, oh man, like if I'm
not even like quite with them onthe uphill, like this down, it
was going to be a disaster,cause I know I'm going to really
struggle.
And so, yeah, then we went intothe second lap and my shins
were kind of like starting tobother me with that real steep
downhill and I was like, yeah,I'm not gonna catch these guys
on this uphill, my legs justaren't working, they're just not
moving.
(21:02):
So, um, I I climbed part of thefirst hill and my I just
couldn't move and I was like,yeah, let's just call it here.
And it was like easy to like, Ithink get in a slump, be like,
oh, shoot, like I'm really notthis biking hasn't translated
I'm not as fit as I was hoping.
You know, like a lot of doubtscrept in my head but my coach,
david, and my wife were verysupportive and like still, uh,
(21:25):
be like.
No, like this is good, this isa good stimulus, kind of a rust
buster.
Like things didn't go how wewere hoping, but like with how
limited running you've done,like we couldn't have expected
anything super crazy.
And then, luckily, I was ableto get I think it was like maybe
three weeks in between then andbroke in the arrow or so and I
was able to get in some bettertraining, some more.
Um, stim is uphill and downhill,uh, and the shins progressed a
(21:48):
bit more after I started runningand so, um, yeah, it was very
fortunate.
Like it was hard, because Ithink you always have those
doubts in the back of your mindlike lining up, like, oh, am I
really as fit as I think?
Like last race didn't go superwell.
Um, I did like a little segmentpush close to my house and
broke a previous record that Ihadn't been able to get in a
while.
So I was like, okay, likethings are coming around, so
(22:10):
just small little wins here andthere and then just trying to
have the confidence and trust inmy training and, uh, my coach
really helped with that and then, yeah, it was kind of, I think,
the turning point for the ofthe season.
I've been real healthy andeverything's gone pretty good
since amazing.
For the most part.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
No, I mean, dude, you've been hitting it out of
the park.
I got to ask you about, um,just the performance of broken
arrow, in the sense where, um,obviously it's super kind of
chaotic start.
You know, it's this massstartup, this weird ski Hill
kind of thing.
There's no particular trail.
(22:47):
Obviously they changed thecourse as well.
Uh, kind of last second on you.
I mean, dude, you broke therace wide open like joe was not
catching you.
You, you had some like actual,like serious time on a lot of
these guys.
How did the race just?
I'm out of pure curiosity, howdid the race unfold for you?
How did you even assertposition to get in front of a
lot of folks?
Like, how were you able to kindof pull that off?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
yeah, um, one of the hesitancies, I think, coming
from son of p to there is like,uh, david, was really like let's
work on running economy like weknow you got some good uphill
fitness from your biking butlike let's do running economy.
And in the back of my mind Iwas like no, I need to like do
some more uphill training.
Like I wasn't able to keep withthese guys, even on the uphill,
like I mean, I was like rightthere with them, but I was like
(23:23):
I should be able to break theseguys like I think with my, my
talent kind of being more in theuphills, like I should be able
to break away from these guysand push hard, but I wasn't able
to.
But he's like no, like we gotto first like just turn, having
ran such little in the lastlittle while.
Like we got to get your runningeconomy and efficiency back.
So so I did quite a few likeflat workouts and then I think,
like leading into the race, Idid like my first like bigger
(23:45):
uphill workout and honestly Iwas just like climbing on the
off days.
But so, going to that race, likeif you look at the profile of
it, it starts off extremelysteep, but then it kind of
levels out and gets pretty flat,relatively speaking, and then
it has a little bit of anotherclimate, flattens out again and
then it has like the climb again.
And David was just like yo,like we know you're really fit,
(24:07):
like you've had some good flatworkouts, your turnover and
efficiencies coming, so like theplan was go out like don't go
out too relatively hard, uh, onthat first like steep climb, you
know it's not super long, andthen once you hit that road like
really open up things.
And so I think by the top ofthat first like ski hill climb,
I was maybe I don't know 15th or10th or 15th somewhere around
(24:29):
there and some of the guys had adecent lead, like probably 20,
30 meters or so.
But as soon as I hit that likemy, my like turnover and all the
workouts I've been, I just likechewed up everyone.
I just like sped past everyoneand no one was really moving, um
, and I think like not going outtoo hard helped me not get too
lactic, and then I took off andthen that's when I caught up to
(24:49):
like Killian and Killian waslike kind of chilling there and
obviously he had an absurdlylong like travel day the day
before he was telling me aboutlike travel day.
The day before he was telling meabout, um, but like I
remembered, we kind of got sideto side and then he like surged
a little bit and I matched itand then I kind of like surged a
little bit because I was liketrying to get a feel of like how
he was feeling and I went.
(25:11):
But then he didn't really likego with me and I was like, oh
man, like he must be hurting orjust real tired from the travel
day before.
So then I just kept pushing thethrottle and luckily, like
that's where it gets like realflat there for a while and I
just kept pushing.
Like we hit a little punchyclimb again for a sec and like
kind of dug into that.
And then once I hit the flatagain, I really opened up and
got that turnover going againand just kind of broke away from
the pack.
(25:32):
So, um, it was nice to havethose kind of like that workout.
So in the stimulus I hadpreviously leading up to that to
get that turnover going, um,and then I just try to keep the
throttle going to the finish.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
But yeah, dude, all right.
So I gotta ask you this thismight be a weird question, but
what was it like to beat two ofthe greatest mountain runners to
ever do it?
Probably two, I mean two goatsliterally in joe and killian.
Was that a little weird?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
uh, I mean, yeah, they're both amazing talents.
It's super fun to be able torace against them and, having
done it a couple of times, like,obviously, like they're kind of
a little older in their careers, so it's amazing to see how fit
they are at such a ripe age.
But I like, I feel like if Iwant to be the best, I got to
(26:18):
compete against the best and andhave the faith that I can beat
the best.
And like, competing againstpeople like Phil, mon and
Patrick, and now Hazim and andRemy and all these other guys in
golden trail has given me likesome confidence and like and
also, I guess, humility, goingup against these people to like
understand, like where you canpush and where you should hold
back and and play your strengths, but also, um, if you don't
(26:43):
swing for the fences, you'llnever know if, if you can.
So, uh, yeah, I just kind oftry to rely on my strengths and
uh and push when I can and justgive it my all, and it's super
fun to compete against the best.
I try not to shy away fromcompetition.
I try to get to the races wherethe best will be there, because
you know, um, iron sharpensiron and the more I can be
(27:04):
around them, the better I'll get.
Dude Amazing.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
All right, we're kind of limited on time here.
I want to get to a coupleending questions.
Uh, first one is where did thenamesake slim come from?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
from yes, uh.
So I served a religious missionfor two years in Japan.
Um, and missionaries tend toget a little fat on their
mission not all missions, butsome missions where they get fed
by members a lot.
They just kind of get biggerand stuff and I was always just
kind of like a skinny guy ingeneral, coming out of like high
school being a scrawny runnerand so like people just kind of
started calling me slim and uh,and then I was known for calling
all my friends on my missionslim and and it just kind of
(27:42):
stuck Like I was like theultimate slim.
I'm sorry I got to apologize.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I'm like no, I know there's flies where there's a
bajillion flies.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
It's like fly galore here in Europe.
I think the window systemthey've made here is phenomenal,
where you can open the windowsand prod them in both directions
, but I can't believe that.
Uh, insect, what do they callthose?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
um, oh my gosh like a screen kind of thing screen.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes, like window screens haven't made it here in
europe yet.
It's like hot because there'sno ac, so you gotta leave your
window open and then all youknow is like a bajillion flies
are flying around your house allday.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But do you put like product in your hair, because
they're very interested in thehair.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I think that could be uh I don't know, I just use
this powder stuff because I hatelike the texture you feel when
you have stuff, so it keeps itfluffy but it keeps it real like
that's how you keep it up likeI mean dude.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
This is.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
These are the questions the audience wants
yeah, I try not to put like anycrazy products.
I hate when it feels all grimyor sticky like pomade or uh
matte finish stuff, so I justuse like this powder stuff I
came across and it works greatwow, well, the secrets of the
hair, we all.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's amazing.
All right, last question um,this is serious blood.
What would it mean to you tocome home with a medal,
especially at a worldchampionship like this?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Oh, I'd be stoked.
Yeah, I mean, it's like one ofmy big dreams and goals over the
next couple of years.
With the way training's gone, Ithink I just got to trust in
the training and I'm going toget one more good, solid push in
tomorrow and then just reallyfocus on recovering and feeling
fresh.
Pushing tomorrow and then like,just really focus on recovering
(29:21):
and feeling fresh.
Um, I think I've had a bit oftimes over the last few years
like maybe coming into races alittle too overcooked.
I think, coming from a collegebackground where like there's
really only one or two racesthat matter in this season, a
lot of times you kind of trainthrough the races.
I've kind of, likeabsentmindedly, done that into
these races, even even though,like every race is really
important, whether it's thegolden trail race or something.
But I sometimes go into raceslike, oh, I can do a workout
(29:44):
early in the week and I'll befine for the race, but it's like
then you get a littleovercooked or something.
So I think just coming in realfresh and then confident in the
training, like it would be adream of mine.
I think like I definitely havea decent chance if I like I'm
feeling good and I push theright way, but, um, the course
looks like very favorable to thekind of course I would enjoy,
(30:05):
and so I'm excited to go outthere and could be against the
best and obviously the reigningchamp and Patrick and and my
other amazing teammates, so it'dbe awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, dude, it's going to be so much fun to
follow along.
Um, oh dude.
Yeah, dude, it's gonna be somuch fun to follow along.
Um, oh dude.
One last question I've beenmeaning to ask you about for the
acg, acg stuff, just becausethe last last nike athlete I had
on was liam and it was justbefore the acg stuff dropped, so
you couldn't really talk aboutit that much.
Can you just maybe talk?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
talk a little bit about this transition that nike
trail has kind of gone into acgand just kind of some of these
changes that have been madelately totally, yeah, um,
obviously, the brand like likekind of was like looking at
themselves or nike as a wholeand was like yo, we got two
different apartments that arekind of like, you know, butting
(30:49):
heads or like kind of competingagainst each other.
It's like why don't we take acgand nike trail and combine them
together and put the resourcesand the efforts together and
make this really great band?
And they want to become like avery competitive brand when it
comes to outdoors in general,like competing with like the
black diamonds or other likethat just provides, uh, pinnacle
(31:12):
gear to like runners, hikers,outdoor goers.
Obviously running is going tobe like the pinnacle of that,
like the top of the spear, butthey really just want to make
quality, high performance gearfor like running to outdoors
stuff, and so it's been reallycool to see them like kind of
(31:33):
put the resources together andprovide a little more support
for us, I think also goingforward.
So it'll be super cool to seehow the brand shapes and grows,
going forward Super cool.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I appreciate you being candid and being open
about that.
One more thing before we go Didyou see some of these good
memes with you, Some of thesegood memes coming out of
Chabonier?
I was like dude, this isamazing.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yes, yes, my friend Liam was out there with me and
he like showed me one.
I have an Instagram time limitand I don't know the password to
it, so I don't spend too muchon it.
My wife knows it that way.
You know, I'm not sitting theremindlessly scrolling or wasting
my life too much, but I thinkmy time had just ran out.
The day that your boy, scottJerk, had posted one and Liam
(32:16):
was just like dying laughing.
He's like yo, have you seenthis?
I was like what are you talkingabout?
And he like showed me on hisphone.
And then I saw a few otherslike kind of come through the
friends had sent me over thedays.
So, yeah, it was pretty funny,good stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Good stuff.
Well, Christian, I'm wishingyou the best of luck on race day
, man.
I hope you guys bring it homefor team USA and I hope you have
an amazing day out there and agreat trip.
And good luck at the goldentrail final as well.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Hey, thanks Sam, I really appreciate you having me
on.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Absolutely man.
Thank you you.
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