September 23, 2025 • 50 mins
Summits conquered, records shattered, and mountains yet to climb—Jasmine Lowther's extraordinary summer of racing defies conventional limits. Fresh from breaking the Grand Teton FKT and excelling at OCC, she now stands on the precipice of the World Championships in Spain.
The Grand Teton FKT attempt reveals a fascinating dimension of Jasmine's relationship with mountains. Despite having only three weeks to prepare for a challenge that ideally requires months of intimate mountain knowledge, she conquered not just the technical terrain but her own fears. "You're going to be dancing with it," her sports psychologist told her about the mountain, "so get to know it." That dance between fear and achievement colors every step of her journey, whether navigating exposed ridges where one misstep means a 6,000-foot fall or facing wild boars on Spanish training runs.
Now preparing for World Championships, Jasmine paints a vivid picture of what awaits: a course unlike any typical trail race. With significant sections completely off-trail through grassy fields and technical gullies, dozens of punishing switchbacks, and terrain so challenging "it's going to run like a 120K race" despite being only 50 miles. The technical downhills will favor skilled mountain runners over pure speed specialists, creating an unpredictable race where "dark horses" might challenge established champions.
Beyond the physical challenges, Jasmine thoughtfully addresses broader issues facing trail running—from the complexities of anti-doping enforcement to the special feeling of representing Canada on an international stage. Her perspective balances competitive fire with genuine appreciation for the mountain environments and community that make this sport so compelling.
Looking to challenge yourself on technical mountain terrain? Listen now for insights from someone who's mastering the art of dancing with mountains, and follow Jasmine's journey as she carries the maple leaf to Spain's most demanding trails.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:00):
We are live.
Jasmine Louther.
Welcome back to the Steep Stuffpodcast.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hey James, I'm doing well.
Yeah, I'm hanging over here inCanfrank, spain, just prepping
for Worlds.
So it's a nice sunny day andI'm just in taper time.
So I got lots to chill, lots oftime to chill.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm so excited to catch up with you.
It's been a crazy summerbetween I think we talked it was
we talked the last time beforecanyons and then speed goat
happened, and then OCC happenedand the Tita or the grand
happened, and it's like here weare and yeah, it's been kind of
a crazy summer for you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, it has, and I think going into it I was kind
of like, all right, the last bitof summer is going to be fully
jam-packed and I had no idea ifI'd be able to pull it off.
I, so far, am pulling it off,which is cool and crazy.
I'm definitely doing a lot moreshorter distance stuff than I
usually would, so that's kind ofthe cool part about doing
(02:01):
shorter distances is you can domore More events, more
performances, performances,things like that.
So, um yeah, lots of learnings,lots of wild things have
happened and, uh, excited totalk about it sweet, sweet.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
we'll get into it.
The first thing I gotta ask youis, like, just between another
amazing, like another amazingperformance at Speed Goat, then
you go and break the grandrecord, both supported and
unsupported, and OCC now gorolling in the world.
So far of your experiences thissummer, what stands out to you
as far as like what you're themost proud of and what you're
(02:36):
the most excited about from thesummer?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh yeah, it's funny.
Um, yeah, it's.
It's definitely been a littlebit of a roller coaster, for
sure.
I think going into speed go, Iwasn't fully training
specifically for it.
It was kind of like, hey, thisis going to be a workout, I was
seeing it more as prep for OCCand I think that's when you're
(03:01):
juggling I was juggling a bittoo many races and and just like
and adding in an FKT.
There you start to have todeprioritize things.
So it's like, okay, what doesthis actually mean to me?
For me, speed goat it was likeall right, this is going to be
my workout.
It's going to make sure thatwhen I get to OCC I'm going to
(03:22):
be able to pull this off,because right now I'm distracted
with the grand and that's amuch shorter, more intense
effort with technical and alllike that.
So, um, yeah, there was a lotof juggling and at the end of
the day, I initially, I thinktackling the Grand and
(04:02):
overcoming a lot of my fearsaround it, I will say was
definitely a moment of like, oflike I will get into the story
there but I I was scaredshitless, if I can say it, about
tackling that, that fkt and um.
I had a moment earlier in thesummer of just going up and down
it.
Um, I was extremely tired, allthese things, and was like kind
of rock bottom, had dug myselfinto the well of low energy,
(04:25):
went up the grand and just hadlike not the best time up there,
to be honest, um, and I it justwas a day that was not success,
set up for success and so withthat, and then turning around
and and being able to do thegrand, um, um, in the time that
(04:47):
I did, I was like super stokedfor myself, um, having that that
personal best on that mountainand actually feeling like
connected to it and felt safewhile doing it and um, um, you
know, confident, moving over therock and everything like that.
So that was a pretty coolempowering moment.
(05:09):
Um, and I have a feeling.
So, and then fast forward, Iran OCC.
It also wasn't a super priorityrace, but I just had a really
great time out there and it wassuper fun and that's kind of the
magic of being in Europe You'reon these crazy beautiful trails
and everyone is out, the energyis fire.
(05:33):
Yeah, I just had a really great,fun race day and then I have a
feeling that this next race atWorlds.
The course is just so ruggedand wild and I think it's going
to be a magical day.
It will definitely be aninteresting race.
So, um, yeah, I'll say theGrand was maybe like very
(05:56):
empowering for myself.
Um, and OCC was one of thosemoments of like, yeah, I do
really enjoy racing and I doenjoy this sport a lot.
Um and uh, yeah, I think I'llI'll stop there, but, um, yeah,
every every race or every timethat you put yourself in, like
(06:20):
those pushing yourself moments,you walk away with something new
.
So yeah, so yeah, special veryspecial summer so far.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
All right, let's talk about the grand.
I feel like we can hop rightinto that one.
I've been.
This has uh been a a veryspecial summer for the grand in
the sense of like it's beenreally cool to see like, like
multiple now strong women, liketake stabs at it and like both
have success, which has been socool to see.
I was a little worried and I'mnot as close to it as, say, you
(06:50):
guys are in a lot of ways but myworry was that people were
going to be conflicted after theMichelino situation and nobody
would want to touch thatmountain.
People wouldn't want to go forfast times on it and since then
we have FKT is kind of I don'twant to say change their
rhetoric on it.
But now we have an old routeand we have a new route and you
(07:14):
were able to maybe tell thatstory, maybe talk about that,
because I think you wereintegral in a lot of ways, both
of you, to having the old routeand then the new route
established to where it's now afully functioning thing on
fktcom.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Totally yeah, yeah.
So for me, my journey with theground I guess it started a few
years ago.
I learned about the ground, theTetons and everything and it
was like, oh, this is a reallyspecial place.
You know, it's like whetheryou're in Jackson, wyoming or
Idaho on the other side, youdrive over there.
It's like whether you're injackson, wyoming or idaho on the
other side, you drive overthere.
(07:47):
It's like a flat valley andthen it just rises up out of
nowhere and it's just like thisbig wave and you very distinctly
can tell which one is the grand.
Um, and, yeah, it's magic toanyone's eyes.
So, and then last year, um, Iwas hanging out with michelino
when he did his whole thing andI joked with him a few times
(08:11):
like, oh, maybe I'll just giveit, give it a crack, and you
know.
But, um, it was also his thingat that time and I was training
for ccc.
So I was kind of like, allright, well, maybe in 2025 I'll,
I'll see if I have thebandwidth and the availability
to train for it.
Um, yeah, and then this summer,um, it was like I mean,
(08:35):
definitely not, not like themost ideal situation in terms of
training for it, because I dobelieve if you want to have,
like your full meal deal, bestperformance, you want to be like
sleeping at altitude um, get toknow that mountain intimately.
Um, every nook and cranny youwant to go up there and, um, you
(09:01):
know, usually when you go upthere at like a steady, decent
pace, it's going to take you sixhours, six or seven hours up
and down.
Um, yeah, so I only had liketwo and a half, maybe three
weeks kind of somewhat availablefor getting to know it and and
(09:21):
trying to put my timestamp on itand things like that, to know
it and trying to put my timestamp on it and things like that
, and then at the same time,also learning that a few other
women were giving it the eye.
So we had Jane Moss, annaGibson was actually quite
interested, there's still KellyHalpin and then Jen Day Denton
(09:43):
over in Salt Lake, so there'sactually five women who are all
eyeing it up and I was kind oflike holy, this could be the
year of women on the ground,which is really, really cool,
because usually you look at FKTsand it's always like man, there
needs to be more women's timeson this and it'll make it more
competitive and it'll make itfeel more like a race.
So, yeah, when I rolled up toJackson, um, uh, there was a I
(10:08):
did overlap with Jane a bit andit was kind of cool, you know,
like we hung out, we'd grabdinner, things like that, and
swap stories of how it was goingfor each other and we knew very
well like we're both going forthis thing and that's part of it
.
So, um, yeah, and she's, she'ssuper awesome and very rad and
(10:30):
yeah, so I was just going to godo a workout up there and some
of the team around, um, grabbingphotos and things like that.
They were going to be out therejust grabbing some some content
and stuff like that.
They were going to be out therejust grabbing some some content
, stuff like that.
So they were already like,stationed up on the mountain.
Some of them were just going torun up and down it and I was
(10:54):
driving out with Michelino, um,my partner and the speed record
holder on the ground, if you maysay so, um, and he holder on
the ground, if you may say so,and he I can't remember the plan
there that day, but yeah, I wasgoing to do my workout and I
(11:15):
was definitely kind of nervousbecause this felt like my day of
reckoning of.
Is this something that I trulywant to pursue?
Because in my mind I was stilla little bit on the fence.
Um, and the reason why.
So like, when you hit thetechnical sections you know
there are guiding parties upthere it's scrambling, um, you
(11:39):
can sometimes hit rhyme icewhere the rock is completely
slippery, and then definitely onthe downhill you need to be
like super careful.
There are a few sections where,if you make one slip, you're
going to be taking like a 6,000foot fall and it's just like
thin air.
So I would be going on thesetraining runs, you know, on a
(12:03):
buttery smooth trail and catch atoe on a rock, and then I would
just have this like intense,almost like a flashback, not a
true flashback, but like a flashinto a moment of like, oh crap,
what if this happens on theground?
You know, and it was just kindof haunting me um of like, is
(12:24):
this a risk that I, jasmineLowther, am willing to take for
an FKT?
Um, yeah, so I was.
I was grappling with that, forsure, and um, so back we're
driving up there to the meadowjust having like a conversation
(12:45):
about the workout I'm going todo is going to be like a tempo.
I just wanted to do a timetrial up to the meadow, which is
like the most non-technicalsection of the whole thing.
It's buttery switchbacks andyeah, mike turns to me and he's
like you know, jazz, if want youcan just give this whole thing
a rip, and I'm not going to tellanyone.
(13:05):
And yeah, I was kind of stokedto hear him say that because I
was like, okay, cool, we canlike just just see.
So go out there.
Butterflies in my stomach, thisis not supposed to be the real
day or anything.
And yeah, I get up to themeadow, um, in decent time.
(13:25):
And then I think I met mikesomewhere along the way, maybe
at the boulders or something,and, um, we go up.
Uh, he was pretty stoked on thetime.
We made it to the top um, it'sbeen I think it was 2.33 or
something that day and then wentback down and it was four hours
(13:48):
and like 46 seconds orsomething like that.
And I was pretty stoked withthat.
I was like, holy shit, okay, Ican make it to four hours,
because the main goal was to besome four hours, yeah, so that
was just like cool, I'm stokedon this.
It lit the fire.
Hell, yeah, I'm in All right.
(14:09):
So that was that.
And then, because I only had somuch time, it was like, okay,
basically next week we need togo for this thing.
And I didn't even have theoption to go up there and what I
really wanted to do was justspend time on the technical
section and get to know everysingle move, and I still had not
(14:33):
been up there by myself, um,but yeah, it was just the way,
the way of um, how much time wehad.
So, yeah, went up there withMike and we got up I think it
was like 2.25 or something likethat to the top and then back
(14:53):
down.
There were lots of parties upthere.
Everyone was great though.
They were supportive, cheering,we were able to maneuver around
, some guided parties, it feltreally safe and everything like
that.
There was definitely one momentwhere there was a Congo line
(15:14):
and I had to wait for them toget through one of the holes,
one of the holes and, uh, yeah,but at the end of the day, um, I
was pretty stoked with it andit was, yeah, the 351 something,
13, um, I also knew that inmike's eyes at that time, he
(15:35):
would not count that as the fktand as well as any other hard
ass on fkTs, because EmilyForsberg time was 3.51.0, which
we can talk about this of likewhat is an FKT and all like that
.
But so that happened, cool.
(15:57):
And then I had one week left.
Andhena was actually going togive it a crack and um, I was
kind of curious like, well, whatif I try unsupported and things
like that.
And so it was kind of fun.
I was leaving that day on anoon flight, um, so we both went
(16:20):
up.
Um, my time wasn't that greatand it was kind of hilarious.
I was like going the wrong wayand everything, but it was also
really enjoyable going by myself.
So, uh, yeah, I would say foranyone given in a world,
definitely do some solo attemptsand get to know that mountain
really really well by yourself.
Um, yeah, and I got down and itwas 4.06.
(16:47):
I was it wasn't like, oh,that's an amazing time or
anything like that, but um, itwas still a super fun day and I
made it to my flight on time anduh, yeah, flew out.
So, yeah, at the end of the dayit was great.
And then one week later, ofcourse, miss Jane Moss.
She went and it was kind ofcool because the same team who
(17:11):
were doing the photo andeverything for me, they were
also out there for her real time, that she was definitely going
to get it.
And um, yeah, that's, that'swhat these things are here for.
They're meant to be broken.
And um, yeah, she's a superstrong runner, so I'm like power
, power to her for sure.
(17:31):
So, um, yeah, and fkts I meanfor me as more of a race person.
I'm trying to navigate thewhole philosophy of a fastest
known time.
Part of me is like FKT shouldbe called smartest known time.
(17:51):
Fair, enough.
Because it's like who can findthe most efficient up and down a
mountain, and of course this isgoing to be changing with times
.
And that was the whole thingwith the grand was myself,
michelino we wanted to go up anddown, we wanted to send that
(18:11):
modern route to fkt and weactually we were the ones that
wrote the description for it andeverything like that um, and
just to set it right so that noone else is in his shoes and um,
that we're working with theparks and and um, at the end of
the day, it's it's keeping,hopefully, everyone happy and um
(18:35):
, yeah, so it did feel a littlebit like full circle, definitely
having him there with me, and Ithink it it lit his fire again
to who knows, we might see himtrying again in 2026 time will
tell but um, yeah, it just feltum kind of full circle having
(18:58):
him there too.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So it's very special, super special.
I've got a few questions foryou on this.
The first one I'd probably gowith is I think it's really
special with Jane as well, likeI think there's some some neat
like obviously there'scompetition, both of you wanted
to get the, you know, wanted todo really well and get the
record and stuff like that.
But I think there's also thislike higher ideal that, like
(19:20):
you're, you're both workingreally hard towards something
and almost like a borderlinecamaraderie that you can respect
one another.
And I think that's like kind ofthe highest ideal in the sport
where you know, yes, there's acompetitive factor, but it's
still there's this ultimaterespect between, um, you know
these competitors, that they youdon't have to, you don't have
to hate one another, you have toyou know, you can really be
(19:42):
friends with these peoplebecause you know they're also
doing this really difficultthing too.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's kind of neat, it's different yeah, no, it's
super neat and I mean it wasfascinating.
We're both there at basicallythe same time and it was kind of
like which day is she going tobe going out for things like
that?
And sometimes I would be outjust going for an easy run and
she would pass doing like somesort of workout or things like
(20:06):
that, and um, yeah, I think wecan have more of that in the
sport and it did make it feel abit more like a race and, um, I
mean, yeah, and you're bothlearning from each other.
It's like like cool, we canlook at her splits, she can look
at my splits, and it's it's allout in the open and stuff like
(20:27):
that.
So, um, yeah, and I think shedid it in a really smart way.
Um, she had almost, in someways, um, she was learning the
mountain on her own and I dothink that that, in some ways,
helped her a lot in the end.
(20:47):
And she did it in her own wayand I have like full respect for
that.
And, yeah, I think, even onlike the downhill, she took this
one slightly different sectionand it was like, oh yeah, that
was a really smart move of her.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Um, so, yeah, kudos to her for sure um, when you
talk about being scared ofcertain sections or being scared
of the route you kind ofalluded to in the beginning of
the episode, was it more so someof the exposure and having to
work around parties up high, Imean that would scare me, like I
, you know, when I look at someof the exposure, that and from
(21:27):
the photos that, like when Mikewas running up there, I'm like
dude, oh my God, yeah, it's alittle out there for me.
Um, like, was it more so fearof that?
Or you talk about it Like, letme very curious as to here.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, it was definitely the fear, the
exposure and making sure thatI'm safe and everyone else is
safe.
So those three things, it's onething to go up there, you know,
with friends or just like nice,cruisy, easy pace, but then
adding speed in, it's like, allright, you need to be in control
(22:01):
and yeah, like it needs to bedone really well and you need to
have 150% focus and, yeah,don't mess it up.
Yeah, so I think I guess, yeah,that was eating away at me for
(22:24):
sure.
And at the end of the day, whenI did that first practice run,
I think it made me feel more atpeace and at calm and calm with
the whole situation, like, okay,I do actually feel confident
that this can be done safely.
And, um, we did have a team ofpeople basically up there like
(22:50):
giving the disclaimer hey,there's this woman doing a speed
record on it on this day.
Um, just be aware, um, if youlike, if you don't mind just
pausing, and she will movearound you.
And that's the main thing thatwe were asking of of people is
(23:10):
like we will move around you andmake sure that everyone is safe
.
You're like in a good, secureposition and um, yeah, um and
(23:44):
yeah.
So I think that's just likethere's going to be certain
mountains that that is thereality, like Denali or Everest,
or, yeah, deathly to Grand, forall the things that we're doing
out there, then I think it canbe done in a respectable way,
but yeah, Do you think too?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So one of the things, this is like one of the and I
sent this to Mike.
I sent like the video clip tohim just because it was very
special when I, when Iinterviewed Anton, we talked
about the grant a little bit andhe gave Mike what I thought was
like the highest compliment youcould possibly give somebody,
in the sense where you know, hereally endeared himself in a lot
of ways to the mountain and dideverything he possibly could to
(24:14):
learn.
Every when I talked to himbefore he did the effort last
year he was like dude, I havenames for my rocks, the rocks
going up.
I'm like you're a lunatic.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Like I was like what the?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
hell.
Do you think two to three weeksin the timeframe that you did
it is enough time?
Or do you think if you were togo back and do it again, you'd
go and spend more time out thereand, just like intimately,
learn it more, so that way youknow every aspect of it not that
you didn't already, because Ido.
I personally think two to threeweeks for you obviously worked.
(24:43):
You were able to do it.
But do you think you need moretime out there?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Absolutely no.
Yeah, I think two to threeweeks it's not enough time
whatsoever.
Yeah, I think there's a lot ofdifferent ways to get up that
technical section, the uppersaddle.
Um, even the day that I did it,I went a completely different
way than I usually go and I waslike, oh God, well, we'll see if
this goes.
And it did, um, and part of mewas like, oh, was that faster,
(25:19):
was that slower?
I, I don't know.
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thinktwo months would be great and,
um, it's more specific trainingfor it, for sure.
Um, yeah, I mean, mike's beenup there 50 times, um, and I
(25:40):
think just being used to movingquickly over that type of
terrain would help, for sure,and just knowing the splits,
everything like that like theback of your hand, um, yeah,
bolder sections, and keep tryingto go with like that learner
eye, almost like a childlike eye, of just being totally open to
(26:02):
different possibilities, which Ido believe Mike did that a lot
with his attempt and everything.
He would try different thingsall the time.
And, yeah, I just didn't havethat resource availability to me
.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Do you think you'll go back?
Is that like a possibility for2026, maybe?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
it's definitely on the table, for sure.
Yeah, yeah, um, definitely onthe table.
And uh, I think it'd be reallycool.
You know, sleep up there a fewtimes and just that was one of
the things.
Um, like, I work with a sportstherapist, a psychologist, and
um, yeah, his, his main thingwas like get to know it and, you
(26:48):
know, spend time.
You're going to be dancing withit.
So I think that mountaindeserves every morsel of respect
you can give it.
So, yeah, it's um right nowtrying to work the race schedule
so that it can work.
That's true, we'll see, that'strue.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, you're also very busy on that front as well.
All right, let's shift gearsand talk a little bit OCC before
we get to Worlds.
Anything specific to DeethBrief about OCC.
I kind of want to ask you theanti-doping question with what
went down with Jolene.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Obviously, it's a tough conversation to have and
that could fill up a whole otherpodcast, but I'd like to just
get some of your early thoughtson it as to what you think.
Yeah, yeah, the hot topic.
No, I think, at the end of theday, the main feeling is like
disappointment and it's a bit oflike heartbreak.
(27:43):
Um, yeah, it's, it's just sounfortunate.
Everything for everyone and um,I feel for especially the three
women who would have beenstanding on the podium and um,
(28:16):
and the thing with the Kenyansis that it's really hard for me
to grapple with is like% of thedopamine infractions in the road
world, and they make up themajority of dopamine infractions
First, four times more than Ibelieve Russians.
Even so, with all of that, it'slike why is the information not
(28:48):
being descended to the athletesappropriately?
And she was working with herrunning team and she had a
running coach and on thatrunning team there were two
doping violations in 2024 aswell.
So for me there's just a lot ofred flags there that are hard
(29:16):
to get past.
And you know, the coach put outon social media that they had
education and things and thatthey did their due diligence,
and and yet it's like, okay, shestill, as per her story, had a
knee issue and went into thecity saw a doctor who
recommended her to get aninjection of a drug that, yes,
(29:38):
is anti-inflammatory but is alsoused and was used widely when
it changes your metabolism ofhow you actually use glucose.
So it's not just ananti-inflammatory, it actually
improves your performance.
And it will be interesting ifUTMB will release her results
(30:03):
from OCC as well, will releaseher results from OCC as well,
because I believe that drug canstain your body if injected into
muscle for 60 days.
So, yeah, it's really, reallyhard.
But if she were from any othercountry, if she was from Canada,
(30:25):
if she was from Norway, theStates, the sanction should be
the same across the board.
And you know, I think Solomoncould have done more in terms of
preventing and making sure shehad the education.
And you know, did they see anyred or yellow flags before and
(30:49):
prior?
I, I don't know, and this isalso where, like, they get to
walk away, um, who knows, mostlyunscathed, or I, I don't know
if they see this as like it's adamage to their brand as well.
Um, yeah, and then the coachand it's like, okay, what was
(31:13):
going on there?
I don't, it's, it's all behindclosed doors and it just it
raises a lot of questions and itcan make people feel pretty
uncomfortable.
You know she's a mom and likeliving in I don't know if she's
in poverty or all of thosethings, but it's.
It's not.
Not fun for everyone is themain thing, but I do know that
(31:40):
it does take away opportunitiesfrom the athletes who should
have been standing on the podium, and that's not fair.
Um.
So, yeah, I think everyoneneeds to be doing better, um,
and definitely for kenya to belike seeing this as as a warning
for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
So I think it was a beautiful answer and I had a
very thoughtful um and there's alot of good information in
there, so I appreciate you beingcandid and talking about it.
It's a tough thing to talkabout.
I know, you know I've had thisconversation with a lot of
athletes and some people chooseto not talk about it.
Some people choose to be veryopen.
So it's an interesting thing.
The reason I ask you is becauseyou, in a lot of ways, were
personally affected in the sensethat you were in the top 10 at
(32:23):
OCC and that bumps you up a spotand I know, and I don't know
what your situation is like.
You know, but I know for a lotof people like there's bonuses
wrapped up in these things andmonetary stuff and it gets
complicated.
So yeah, I appreciate your,your candidness.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, no, a lot of athletes are talking about it
and I think for trail runnersit's just like really hitting
home like wow, this has happenednow a number of times and we
want to keep our sport cleanyeah and yeah, it's like, okay,
everyone, let's, let's really doour best, like even this week.
(33:01):
you know it's like does someone,is someone having like issues
sleeping in their chalet?
Okay, let's look at the drugsthat you're safe to take, and
everyone is doing that.
And yeah, I just hope that wecan all look out for each other.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So, I love it.
I love it.
All right, let's talk worlds,the reason we're here, obviously
, amongst a lot of other things,but I am really excited for
next week, as I think you guysall are.
I think the first things firstis I got to ask you the question
.
I think there's a lot of folksthat take immense pride in
representing their country.
What does that mean to you torepresent Team Canada?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, it's something new and it's very it does feel
like it elevates it in this waykind of parallels the Olympics,
and it's pretty special.
I mean, it's a different way ofcompeting.
In some ways, there's the teamaspect as well.
(34:01):
I myself, personally, Idefinitely have a lot of people
to get to know.
So I think there's a lot ofCanadians that I haven't met yet
and, yeah, there's some strongrunners out there.
Yeah, so it's kind of cool.
I've always thought about, like, when will be the day that I'm
(34:21):
wearing the Canadian flag orthings like that.
But yeah, I guess next weekwe'll get to do that.
And, um, yeah, some some mapleleaf magic for everyone.
So yeah it's.
It's gonna be pretty fun supercool.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
What, um, what is the like the?
What do they have you guysdoing?
Like?
Do you have, basically, do theyset you up with like a media
schedule and all the stuff thatyou guys have to do pre-race?
Is there a lot of thingsinvolved with that or is it
pretty much whatever you guyswant to do pre-race?
How does that work?
Is there stipulations and stuffyou got to go through?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, so this is my first year going through the
whole thing, going through thewhole whole whole thing, and as
far as I understand, there aresome ceremonies and I believe
we're they're walking down thestreet and we got some flags and
we're all decked out, um, andI'm not sure how many countries
(35:18):
are attending, um, it's it's afair number 20, 30, maybe 40.
But anyways, somewhere in thereand it'll be cool to see, you
know, like Australia, newZealand, all over Europe, asia,
the Americas.
So yeah, it's kind of wild, andI think there's going to be a
(35:41):
lot of people that we're notused to competing against.
You know, it's not just anotherutmb, um, I truly do think
there's going to be a lot ofdark horses, some really strong
runners, um, especially runningon these trails, um, very
technical things like that.
So yeah, it's kind of.
(36:02):
It's really interesting whetherit's going to be like the usuals
.
Is it going to be like the JimWalmsley's and Katie Scheid's
who still rise to the top, or,like, are they going to be
fighting tooth and nail withsomeone that we're not familiar
with at all?
So yeah, there's a lot ofpresentations, things like that,
um, and then definitely some ofthe processes are, it seems
(36:29):
like a little bit more strict.
Um, like before the race.
We're all in this room, they'relike going through our kit,
things like that.
You know it's it's only elitesracing.
There are no recreationalrunners.
Um and uh, yeah, so it might besome different race dynamics
too, like at least for the longtrail course, especially with so
(36:51):
much elevation we will likelyhave.
You know, the men will be aheadfor the women's field.
At the top you're still passinga lot of guys, which can add
like some motivation to yourrunning.
(37:12):
Anytime I see someone ahead,it's like oh okay, this is
another person to chase, soit'll be interesting not having
that quite as much.
If that changes things, I don'tknow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
So yeah, there's definitely going to be some
differences for sure.
Interesting so course itselffor the listeners 50-ish miles,
18,000 feet-ish avert somewherein that ballpark.
What's your immediate reactionto the course?
I know I've heard technical.
Basically that's what I'veheard is just different, and
technical is what people havetold me.
Yeah, I haven't seen it with myown eyes, so you paint the
(37:48):
picture then.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be different than any
other race I've ever heard of,for sure.
So reason why is a lot of it isnot on trail at all.
You're literally going throughgraphs, grass, you're going
(38:11):
through fields, um, so it's gotthis like orienteery kind of
vibe to it.
Of course it will be flagged,um, but uh, yeah, that will be
interesting.
And then, um, yeah, it's, it'sa true mountain race.
I would say, however we'redefining mountain running, but,
(38:33):
um, so there's like a fewsections.
You're going up a gully, youcan be using your hands, um, the
rock is still pretty loose.
So, yeah, usually in NorthAmerica this would not be an
irregular trail race.
It's like, well, this issomething I would do with my
friends, but I haven't racedthis before.
(38:54):
It's kind of got that skyrunning vibe to it and we're
going to have to be careful tonot be putting rocks down on
each other, things like thatdown on each other, things like
that.
Um, all, most of the downhillsare extremely technical, very
chunky, not super flowy.
Um, some of them are likedozens of switchbacks and I know
(39:19):
we're all going to be cursingthe switchbacks.
Um, yeah, and then there's likesome sections where it's like
full rock and you're just um,again, there's like no trail or
anything, so very wild.
I think it's going to be verymentally stimulating, slash
draining.
So, um, near the end of the 50miles, that's where, like, yeah,
(39:45):
if you're not fueling oranything and you're not stoked
about it, like that's going tostart to chew you up for sure.
Um, I think any fast, smoothrunners they might struggle on
this course.
So I think really the technicalrunners are going to shine and
those who are used to like thisis going to run like 100k or
(40:08):
120k race.
Um, it's definitely not.
I would just consider it a 50miler.
It's going to be slow, um, yeah,and then we'll also see is, uh,
how their course marshalling,um, I think a lot of the north
americans are really curiousabout that aspect because there
(40:30):
are so many switchbacks andevery time there's a lot,
there's also a trail that goesstraight through them all oh
christ, here we go, here we goso, um, I think we're all kind
of like okay, how are we goingto make this fair, like you
either need to say absolutelynot, and I don't know if they're
(40:53):
going to be checking gpx filesor anything like that because
it's very normal and accepted ineurope to just take the
straight line yeah, um, yeah, so, and that would shame off a lot
of time for sure.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So, yeah, um, yeah, we're hoping they bring that up
and, um, hopefully, we, we don'tsee people cutting corners if
that's the rule, yeah, I hopethey, yeah, they listen like in
the sense where they're open tookay, like this, is there's
potential here for you know, andit shouldn't be open for
interpretation is what I'mtrying to get you know it should
(41:30):
be very black and white.
Uh, do you, how does it workwith like mandatory kits for you
guys like, do they make youhave like I know utmb is like
very well known for oh, you gotto bring your your cold gear
pants and all that mumbo jumbo?
Like, do you guys have to havelike all this mandatory stuff in
your pack that they'll likecheck and stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
yeah, we do and, honestly, this is kind of like
the first race.
Especially if it was a stormyweather day, I would be like we
100 should have all that gear.
Um, yeah, I, right now theweather is looking okay, so
knock on wood.
But, um, if, if it were stormyand if people were out there for
(42:13):
12 plus hours, um, yeah, it'sdefinitely an area that you
would want to have your space,blanket and pants and everything
.
So, yeah, it's similar to utmb,um, in terms of requirements
and um, it sounds like they willbe checking everyone's kit and
literally weighing the jacketsand um, yeah, it sounds like in
(42:39):
the past there has been thingsum, yeah, people trying to get
around it and putting nickelsand dimes in their pockets and
things like that.
So, yeah, oh man, anything towin.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I get it.
I get it Really cool.
You posted a really neat.
I'm a big animal guy.
I always love the animal stuff,like with local wildlife.
I'll tell you a funny story.
When I used to live in SouthFlorida we had wild pigs
everywhere and I went to jumpover a down palm tree one time
on a trail and I literallylanded on top of a wild pig
that's like that got freaked outand then chased me for like a
(43:17):
few yards scared the life likeliving daylights out of me.
You had a similar experience.
I don't think you were chased,though, like that was a much
bigger pig than the one I saw.
What was, uh, what was thatexperience like?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
yeah, yeah, so I I didn't even think they had pigs
here, but, um, I guess they do.
So, yeah, it was like a really.
You know, it was a back-to-backday, so I was super tired and
kind of out of it and just bymyself and like crested this
hill, put my foot down andwasn't really paying attention
(43:51):
and there was like some like abig black blob in my periphery,
like only a foot or two awayfrom me, and like my mind was
starting to work and trying tofigure out this puzzle of what
it was.
And then it started moving andfirst I thought it was like a
dead body and then I was likeholy shit, this thing is alive.
(44:14):
And then I was like, oh my God,this is a wild boar.
I almost stepped on it and thenI kind of like shrieked and
then it got up and was superspooked and we both just like
bolted opposite ways and then II like had my running poles out
(44:34):
ready and ran for a tree.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Dude, they're mean, like they can be mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, yeah, because I remember a while back I moved
to New Zealand and I used tohave like nightmares about like
having to fend myself againstwild boars, yeah.
But this guy, he like went 20feet away, stopped and then was
just like checking me out and Iwas doing the same thing, and
then we both peaced out.
(45:02):
So yeah it was.
But if I had actually steppedon him, who knows, I might have
been in the same shoes as you.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
So yeah, yeah, terrifying, terrifying.
I thought when I looked at thestory I was like is that a bear
for?
Am I looking at it?
I'm like trying to like zoom in.
I'm like, holy shit, that's awild boar like you don't see too
.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, I did not know yeah, yeah, so far, people have
like there's like the wild orwild, there's like the wild or
wild cow, there's like theHighland cows everywhere and you
know, as runners you do need tobe careful and like pay them
respects.
So oftentimes they'll like goaway off trail and around them.
(45:38):
And I have been charged by thecows before and then I think
just recently, like Sarah Alonsogot literally like trampled or
something and yeah, really,really scary.
So there's that.
You know the cows see you andthey just kind of stare and
you're like okay, you'll goaround and then, um, also the
(45:59):
sheep, um, sheep are great, butthen sometimes there's sheep
dogs like hidden inside the herdof sheep and then they'll come
at you and uh, like I ran intomartina and emily, emily, um
schmidt, and uh, yeah, they saidthey got like followed by three
(46:20):
of those dogs and they're likesnarling and and barking and
stuff.
So yeah, there's a few thingshere you need to watch out for.
I mean, it's it's not likeCanada where you're always like
grizzly bears, but um, yeah, youneed to be careful, so
interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
The perils, the perils of the course, almost
down to one final questionwhat's going to be the race day
shoe?
Are you wearing like an arcproto, or are you going to be
doing like a something that'sout now like what are you?
What are you rocking these days?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
yeah, good question.
I will probably still bewearing the silence.
Um, to me they're just kind ofmy my go-to shoe.
I feel very comfortable in them.
Um, they are sending me thesilent twos so I think they get
here today or tomorrow and um,they do have an updated foam
that's a little bit more, um,energetically positive.
(47:13):
So I am very stoked to to trythem out and might be racing in
those.
So, yeah, be fun.
But uh, yeah, I do expect it'sgoing to be a long day.
I don't know.
Top men's times might be aroundnine hours.
Top women's times might be like, I don't know, 10 and a half to
(47:34):
11, 12 hours.
We'll be somewhere in thatballpark.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
It's going to be a long day out.
I mean, this is always a hardquestion to ask, but what's next
after this?
Are you going to have some longdowntime or are you going to
get right back into it?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Definitely.
Yeah, it's.
This is going to be off season.
I was considering doing Doi,thailand, but I'm like, nah, no,
let's, let's just chill.
Um, I've got some fun stuffcoming up.
Um, another trip to Switzerland.
Uh, arcteryx, we're doing aweek fast pack through the
Balkans and Albania together, soreally stoked for that, and
(48:12):
then at some point I'll get backto the US and then at some
point I'll get back to Canadaand then it's just going to be
like let's chill, let's sleep.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Downtime.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Just be normal.
Yeah, I feel you on that.
Yeah, I may be looking at agolden ticket race next year and
then maybe CCC.
I guess we'll see, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Super cool, super cool.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
All right.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Well, I want to say thank you so much for coming on
and I appreciate you for beingopen for so many things and
talking about all this goodstuff from your year and wish
you the best of luck on race dayand I hope it's an amazing
experience for you, especiallybeing your first one, like
representing team Canada, Likethat's so cool.
So I hope you soak it in andit's a very special not just day
, but week for you.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, absolutely, it's going to be super special.
Thanks, james.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yeah, no problem.
(50:04):
Thanks, jasmine, Appreciate it.
Thank you.
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:00):
We are live.
Jasmine Louther.
Welcome back to the Steep Stuffpodcast.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hey James, I'm doing well.
Yeah, I'm hanging over here inCanfrank, spain, just prepping
for Worlds.
So it's a nice sunny day andI'm just in taper time.
So I got lots to chill, lots oftime to chill.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm so excited to catch up with you.
It's been a crazy summerbetween I think we talked it was
we talked the last time beforecanyons and then speed goat
happened, and then OCC happenedand the Tita or the grand
happened, and it's like here weare and yeah, it's been kind of
a crazy summer for you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, it has, and I think going into it I was kind
of like, all right, the last bitof summer is going to be fully
jam-packed and I had no idea ifI'd be able to pull it off.
I, so far, am pulling it off,which is cool and crazy.
I'm definitely doing a lot moreshorter distance stuff than I
usually would, so that's kind ofthe cool part about doing
(02:01):
shorter distances is you can domore More events, more
performances, performances,things like that.
So, um yeah, lots of learnings,lots of wild things have
happened and, uh, excited totalk about it sweet, sweet.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
we'll get into it.
The first thing I gotta ask youis, like, just between another
amazing, like another amazingperformance at Speed Goat, then
you go and break the grandrecord, both supported and
unsupported, and OCC now gorolling in the world.
So far of your experiences thissummer, what stands out to you
as far as like what you're themost proud of and what you're
(02:36):
the most excited about from thesummer?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh yeah, it's funny.
Um, yeah, it's.
It's definitely been a littlebit of a roller coaster, for
sure.
I think going into speed go, Iwasn't fully training
specifically for it.
It was kind of like, hey, thisis going to be a workout, I was
seeing it more as prep for OCCand I think that's when you're
(03:01):
juggling I was juggling a bittoo many races and and just like
and adding in an FKT.
There you start to have todeprioritize things.
So it's like, okay, what doesthis actually mean to me?
For me, speed goat it was likeall right, this is going to be
my workout.
It's going to make sure thatwhen I get to OCC I'm going to
(03:22):
be able to pull this off,because right now I'm distracted
with the grand and that's amuch shorter, more intense
effort with technical and alllike that.
So, um, yeah, there was a lotof juggling and at the end of
the day, I initially, I thinktackling the Grand and
(04:02):
overcoming a lot of my fearsaround it, I will say was
definitely a moment of like, oflike I will get into the story
there but I I was scaredshitless, if I can say it, about
tackling that, that fkt and um.
I had a moment earlier in thesummer of just going up and down
it.
Um, I was extremely tired, allthese things, and was like kind
of rock bottom, had dug myselfinto the well of low energy,
(04:25):
went up the grand and just hadlike not the best time up there,
to be honest, um, and I it justwas a day that was not success,
set up for success and so withthat, and then turning around
and and being able to do thegrand, um, um, in the time that
(04:47):
I did, I was like super stokedfor myself, um, having that that
personal best on that mountainand actually feeling like
connected to it and felt safewhile doing it and um, um, you
know, confident, moving over therock and everything like that.
So that was a pretty coolempowering moment.
(05:09):
Um, and I have a feeling.
So, and then fast forward, Iran OCC.
It also wasn't a super priorityrace, but I just had a really
great time out there and it wassuper fun and that's kind of the
magic of being in Europe You'reon these crazy beautiful trails
and everyone is out, the energyis fire.
(05:33):
Yeah, I just had a really great,fun race day and then I have a
feeling that this next race atWorlds.
The course is just so ruggedand wild and I think it's going
to be a magical day.
It will definitely be aninteresting race.
So, um, yeah, I'll say theGrand was maybe like very
(05:56):
empowering for myself.
Um, and OCC was one of thosemoments of like, yeah, I do
really enjoy racing and I doenjoy this sport a lot.
Um and uh, yeah, I think I'llI'll stop there, but, um, yeah,
every every race or every timethat you put yourself in, like
(06:20):
those pushing yourself moments,you walk away with something new
.
So yeah, so yeah, special veryspecial summer so far.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
All right, let's talk about the grand.
I feel like we can hop rightinto that one.
I've been.
This has uh been a a veryspecial summer for the grand in
the sense of like it's beenreally cool to see like, like
multiple now strong women, liketake stabs at it and like both
have success, which has been socool to see.
I was a little worried and I'mnot as close to it as, say, you
(06:50):
guys are in a lot of ways but myworry was that people were
going to be conflicted after theMichelino situation and nobody
would want to touch thatmountain.
People wouldn't want to go forfast times on it and since then
we have FKT is kind of I don'twant to say change their
rhetoric on it.
But now we have an old routeand we have a new route and you
(07:14):
were able to maybe tell thatstory, maybe talk about that,
because I think you wereintegral in a lot of ways, both
of you, to having the old routeand then the new route
established to where it's now afully functioning thing on
fktcom.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Totally yeah, yeah.
So for me, my journey with theground I guess it started a few
years ago.
I learned about the ground, theTetons and everything and it
was like, oh, this is a reallyspecial place.
You know, it's like whetheryou're in Jackson, wyoming or
Idaho on the other side, youdrive over there.
It's like whether you're injackson, wyoming or idaho on the
other side, you drive overthere.
(07:47):
It's like a flat valley andthen it just rises up out of
nowhere and it's just like thisbig wave and you very distinctly
can tell which one is the grand.
Um, and, yeah, it's magic toanyone's eyes.
So, and then last year, um, Iwas hanging out with michelino
when he did his whole thing andI joked with him a few times
(08:11):
like, oh, maybe I'll just giveit, give it a crack, and you
know.
But, um, it was also his thingat that time and I was training
for ccc.
So I was kind of like, allright, well, maybe in 2025 I'll,
I'll see if I have thebandwidth and the availability
to train for it.
Um, yeah, and then this summer,um, it was like I mean,
(08:35):
definitely not, not like themost ideal situation in terms of
training for it, because I dobelieve if you want to have,
like your full meal deal, bestperformance, you want to be like
sleeping at altitude um, get toknow that mountain intimately.
Um, every nook and cranny youwant to go up there and, um, you
(09:01):
know, usually when you go upthere at like a steady, decent
pace, it's going to take you sixhours, six or seven hours up
and down.
Um, yeah, so I only had liketwo and a half, maybe three
weeks kind of somewhat availablefor getting to know it and and
(09:21):
trying to put my timestamp on itand things like that, to know
it and trying to put my timestamp on it and things like that
, and then at the same time,also learning that a few other
women were giving it the eye.
So we had Jane Moss, annaGibson was actually quite
interested, there's still KellyHalpin and then Jen Day Denton
(09:43):
over in Salt Lake, so there'sactually five women who are all
eyeing it up and I was kind oflike holy, this could be the
year of women on the ground,which is really, really cool,
because usually you look at FKTsand it's always like man, there
needs to be more women's timeson this and it'll make it more
competitive and it'll make itfeel more like a race.
So, yeah, when I rolled up toJackson, um, uh, there was a I
(10:08):
did overlap with Jane a bit andit was kind of cool, you know,
like we hung out, we'd grabdinner, things like that, and
swap stories of how it was goingfor each other and we knew very
well like we're both going forthis thing and that's part of it
.
So, um, yeah, and she's, she'ssuper awesome and very rad and
(10:30):
yeah, so I was just going to godo a workout up there and some
of the team around, um, grabbingphotos and things like that.
They were going to be out therejust grabbing some some content
and stuff like that.
They were going to be out therejust grabbing some some content
, stuff like that.
So they were already like,stationed up on the mountain.
Some of them were just going torun up and down it and I was
(10:54):
driving out with Michelino, um,my partner and the speed record
holder on the ground, if you maysay so, um, and he holder on
the ground, if you may say so,and he I can't remember the plan
there that day, but yeah, I wasgoing to do my workout and I
(11:15):
was definitely kind of nervousbecause this felt like my day of
reckoning of.
Is this something that I trulywant to pursue?
Because in my mind I was stilla little bit on the fence.
Um, and the reason why.
So like, when you hit thetechnical sections you know
there are guiding parties upthere it's scrambling, um, you
(11:39):
can sometimes hit rhyme icewhere the rock is completely
slippery, and then definitely onthe downhill you need to be
like super careful.
There are a few sections where,if you make one slip, you're
going to be taking like a 6,000foot fall and it's just like
thin air.
So I would be going on thesetraining runs, you know, on a
(12:03):
buttery smooth trail and catch atoe on a rock, and then I would
just have this like intense,almost like a flashback, not a
true flashback, but like a flashinto a moment of like, oh crap,
what if this happens on theground?
You know, and it was just kindof haunting me um of like, is
(12:24):
this a risk that I, jasmineLowther, am willing to take for
an FKT?
Um, yeah, so I was.
I was grappling with that, forsure, and um, so back we're
driving up there to the meadowjust having like a conversation
(12:45):
about the workout I'm going todo is going to be like a tempo.
I just wanted to do a timetrial up to the meadow, which is
like the most non-technicalsection of the whole thing.
It's buttery switchbacks andyeah, mike turns to me and he's
like you know, jazz, if want youcan just give this whole thing
a rip, and I'm not going to tellanyone.
(13:05):
And yeah, I was kind of stokedto hear him say that because I
was like, okay, cool, we canlike just just see.
So go out there.
Butterflies in my stomach, thisis not supposed to be the real
day or anything.
And yeah, I get up to themeadow, um, in decent time.
(13:25):
And then I think I met mikesomewhere along the way, maybe
at the boulders or something,and, um, we go up.
Uh, he was pretty stoked on thetime.
We made it to the top um, it'sbeen I think it was 2.33 or
something that day and then wentback down and it was four hours
(13:48):
and like 46 seconds orsomething like that.
And I was pretty stoked withthat.
I was like, holy shit, okay, Ican make it to four hours,
because the main goal was to besome four hours, yeah, so that
was just like cool, I'm stokedon this.
It lit the fire.
Hell, yeah, I'm in All right.
(14:09):
So that was that.
And then, because I only had somuch time, it was like, okay,
basically next week we need togo for this thing.
And I didn't even have theoption to go up there and what I
really wanted to do was justspend time on the technical
section and get to know everysingle move, and I still had not
(14:33):
been up there by myself, um,but yeah, it was just the way,
the way of um, how much time wehad.
So, yeah, went up there withMike and we got up I think it
was like 2.25 or something likethat to the top and then back
(14:53):
down.
There were lots of parties upthere.
Everyone was great though.
They were supportive, cheering,we were able to maneuver around
, some guided parties, it feltreally safe and everything like
that.
There was definitely one momentwhere there was a Congo line
(15:14):
and I had to wait for them toget through one of the holes,
one of the holes and, uh, yeah,but at the end of the day, um, I
was pretty stoked with it andit was, yeah, the 351 something,
13, um, I also knew that inmike's eyes at that time, he
(15:35):
would not count that as the fktand as well as any other hard
ass on fkTs, because EmilyForsberg time was 3.51.0, which
we can talk about this of likewhat is an FKT and all like that
.
But so that happened, cool.
(15:57):
And then I had one week left.
Andhena was actually going togive it a crack and um, I was
kind of curious like, well, whatif I try unsupported and things
like that.
And so it was kind of fun.
I was leaving that day on anoon flight, um, so we both went
(16:20):
up.
Um, my time wasn't that greatand it was kind of hilarious.
I was like going the wrong wayand everything, but it was also
really enjoyable going by myself.
So, uh, yeah, I would say foranyone given in a world,
definitely do some solo attemptsand get to know that mountain
really really well by yourself.
Um, yeah, and I got down and itwas 4.06.
(16:47):
I was it wasn't like, oh,that's an amazing time or
anything like that, but um, itwas still a super fun day and I
made it to my flight on time anduh, yeah, flew out.
So, yeah, at the end of the dayit was great.
And then one week later, ofcourse, miss Jane Moss.
She went and it was kind ofcool because the same team who
(17:11):
were doing the photo andeverything for me, they were
also out there for her real time, that she was definitely going
to get it.
And um, yeah, that's, that'swhat these things are here for.
They're meant to be broken.
And um, yeah, she's a superstrong runner, so I'm like power
, power to her for sure.
(17:31):
So, um, yeah, and fkts I meanfor me as more of a race person.
I'm trying to navigate thewhole philosophy of a fastest
known time.
Part of me is like FKT shouldbe called smartest known time.
(17:51):
Fair, enough.
Because it's like who can findthe most efficient up and down a
mountain, and of course this isgoing to be changing with times
.
And that was the whole thingwith the grand was myself,
michelino we wanted to go up anddown, we wanted to send that
(18:11):
modern route to fkt and weactually we were the ones that
wrote the description for it andeverything like that um, and
just to set it right so that noone else is in his shoes and um,
that we're working with theparks and and um, at the end of
the day, it's it's keeping,hopefully, everyone happy and um
(18:35):
, yeah, so it did feel a littlebit like full circle, definitely
having him there with me, and Ithink it it lit his fire again
to who knows, we might see himtrying again in 2026 time will
tell but um, yeah, it just feltum kind of full circle having
(18:58):
him there too.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
So it's very special, super special.
I've got a few questions foryou on this.
The first one I'd probably gowith is I think it's really
special with Jane as well, likeI think there's some some neat
like obviously there'scompetition, both of you wanted
to get the, you know, wanted todo really well and get the
record and stuff like that.
But I think there's also thislike higher ideal that, like
(19:20):
you're, you're both workingreally hard towards something
and almost like a borderlinecamaraderie that you can respect
one another.
And I think that's like kind ofthe highest ideal in the sport
where you know, yes, there's acompetitive factor, but it's
still there's this ultimaterespect between, um, you know
these competitors, that they youdon't have to, you don't have
to hate one another, you have toyou know, you can really be
(19:42):
friends with these peoplebecause you know they're also
doing this really difficultthing too.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's kind of neat, it's different yeah, no, it's
super neat and I mean it wasfascinating.
We're both there at basicallythe same time and it was kind of
like which day is she going tobe going out for things like
that?
And sometimes I would be outjust going for an easy run and
she would pass doing like somesort of workout or things like
(20:06):
that, and um, yeah, I think wecan have more of that in the
sport and it did make it feel abit more like a race and, um, I
mean, yeah, and you're bothlearning from each other.
It's like like cool, we canlook at her splits, she can look
at my splits, and it's it's allout in the open and stuff like
(20:27):
that.
So, um, yeah, and I think shedid it in a really smart way.
Um, she had almost, in someways, um, she was learning the
mountain on her own and I dothink that that, in some ways,
helped her a lot in the end.
(20:47):
And she did it in her own wayand I have like full respect for
that.
And, yeah, I think, even onlike the downhill, she took this
one slightly different sectionand it was like, oh yeah, that
was a really smart move of her.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Um, so, yeah, kudos to her for sure um, when you
talk about being scared ofcertain sections or being scared
of the route you kind ofalluded to in the beginning of
the episode, was it more so someof the exposure and having to
work around parties up high, Imean that would scare me, like I
, you know, when I look at someof the exposure, that and from
(21:27):
the photos that, like when Mikewas running up there, I'm like
dude, oh my God, yeah, it's alittle out there for me.
Um, like, was it more so fearof that?
Or you talk about it Like, letme very curious as to here.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, it was definitely the fear, the
exposure and making sure thatI'm safe and everyone else is
safe.
So those three things, it's onething to go up there, you know,
with friends or just like nice,cruisy, easy pace, but then
adding speed in, it's like, allright, you need to be in control
(22:01):
and yeah, like it needs to bedone really well and you need to
have 150% focus and, yeah,don't mess it up.
Yeah, so I think I guess, yeah,that was eating away at me for
(22:24):
sure.
And at the end of the day, whenI did that first practice run,
I think it made me feel more atpeace and at calm and calm with
the whole situation, like, okay,I do actually feel confident
that this can be done safely.
And, um, we did have a team ofpeople basically up there like
(22:50):
giving the disclaimer hey,there's this woman doing a speed
record on it on this day.
Um, just be aware, um, if youlike, if you don't mind just
pausing, and she will movearound you.
And that's the main thing thatwe were asking of of people is
(23:10):
like we will move around you andmake sure that everyone is safe
.
You're like in a good, secureposition and um, yeah, um and
(23:44):
yeah.
So I think that's just likethere's going to be certain
mountains that that is thereality, like Denali or Everest,
or, yeah, deathly to Grand, forall the things that we're doing
out there, then I think it canbe done in a respectable way,
but yeah, Do you think too?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So one of the things, this is like one of the and I
sent this to Mike.
I sent like the video clip tohim just because it was very
special when I, when Iinterviewed Anton, we talked
about the grant a little bit andhe gave Mike what I thought was
like the highest compliment youcould possibly give somebody,
in the sense where you know, hereally endeared himself in a lot
of ways to the mountain and dideverything he possibly could to
(24:14):
learn.
Every when I talked to himbefore he did the effort last
year he was like dude, I havenames for my rocks, the rocks
going up.
I'm like you're a lunatic.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Like I was like what the?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
hell.
Do you think two to three weeksin the timeframe that you did
it is enough time?
Or do you think if you were togo back and do it again, you'd
go and spend more time out thereand, just like intimately,
learn it more, so that way youknow every aspect of it not that
you didn't already, because Ido.
I personally think two to threeweeks for you obviously worked.
(24:43):
You were able to do it.
But do you think you need moretime out there?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Absolutely no.
Yeah, I think two to threeweeks it's not enough time
whatsoever.
Yeah, I think there's a lot ofdifferent ways to get up that
technical section, the uppersaddle.
Um, even the day that I did it,I went a completely different
way than I usually go and I waslike, oh God, well, we'll see if
this goes.
And it did, um, and part of mewas like, oh, was that faster,
(25:19):
was that slower?
I, I don't know.
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thinktwo months would be great and,
um, it's more specific trainingfor it, for sure.
Um, yeah, I mean, mike's beenup there 50 times, um, and I
(25:40):
think just being used to movingquickly over that type of
terrain would help, for sure,and just knowing the splits,
everything like that like theback of your hand, um, yeah,
bolder sections, and keep tryingto go with like that learner
eye, almost like a childlike eye, of just being totally open to
(26:02):
different possibilities, which Ido believe Mike did that a lot
with his attempt and everything.
He would try different thingsall the time.
And, yeah, I just didn't havethat resource availability to me
.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Do you think you'll go back?
Is that like a possibility for2026, maybe?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
it's definitely on the table, for sure.
Yeah, yeah, um, definitely onthe table.
And uh, I think it'd be reallycool.
You know, sleep up there a fewtimes and just that was one of
the things.
Um, like, I work with a sportstherapist, a psychologist, and
um, yeah, his, his main thingwas like get to know it and, you
(26:48):
know, spend time.
You're going to be dancing withit.
So I think that mountaindeserves every morsel of respect
you can give it.
So, yeah, it's um right nowtrying to work the race schedule
so that it can work.
That's true, we'll see, that'strue.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, you're also very busy on that front as well.
All right, let's shift gearsand talk a little bit OCC before
we get to Worlds.
Anything specific to DeethBrief about OCC.
I kind of want to ask you theanti-doping question with what
went down with Jolene.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Obviously, it's a tough conversation to have and
that could fill up a whole otherpodcast, but I'd like to just
get some of your early thoughtson it as to what you think.
Yeah, yeah, the hot topic.
No, I think, at the end of theday, the main feeling is like
disappointment and it's a bit oflike heartbreak.
(27:43):
Um, yeah, it's, it's just sounfortunate.
Everything for everyone and um,I feel for especially the three
women who would have beenstanding on the podium and um,
(28:16):
and the thing with the Kenyansis that it's really hard for me
to grapple with is like% of thedopamine infractions in the road
world, and they make up themajority of dopamine infractions
First, four times more than Ibelieve Russians.
Even so, with all of that, it'slike why is the information not
(28:48):
being descended to the athletesappropriately?
And she was working with herrunning team and she had a
running coach and on thatrunning team there were two
doping violations in 2024 aswell.
So for me there's just a lot ofred flags there that are hard
(29:16):
to get past.
And you know, the coach put outon social media that they had
education and things and thatthey did their due diligence,
and and yet it's like, okay, shestill, as per her story, had a
knee issue and went into thecity saw a doctor who
recommended her to get aninjection of a drug that, yes,
(29:38):
is anti-inflammatory but is alsoused and was used widely when
it changes your metabolism ofhow you actually use glucose.
So it's not just ananti-inflammatory, it actually
improves your performance.
And it will be interesting ifUTMB will release her results
(30:03):
from OCC as well, will releaseher results from OCC as well,
because I believe that drug canstain your body if injected into
muscle for 60 days.
So, yeah, it's really, reallyhard.
But if she were from any othercountry, if she was from Canada,
(30:25):
if she was from Norway, theStates, the sanction should be
the same across the board.
And you know, I think Solomoncould have done more in terms of
preventing and making sure shehad the education.
And you know, did they see anyred or yellow flags before and
(30:49):
prior?
I, I don't know, and this isalso where, like, they get to
walk away, um, who knows, mostlyunscathed, or I, I don't know
if they see this as like it's adamage to their brand as well.
Um, yeah, and then the coachand it's like, okay, what was
(31:13):
going on there?
I don't, it's, it's all behindclosed doors and it just it
raises a lot of questions and itcan make people feel pretty
uncomfortable.
You know she's a mom and likeliving in I don't know if she's
in poverty or all of thosethings, but it's.
It's not.
Not fun for everyone is themain thing, but I do know that
(31:40):
it does take away opportunitiesfrom the athletes who should
have been standing on the podium, and that's not fair.
Um.
So, yeah, I think everyoneneeds to be doing better, um,
and definitely for kenya to belike seeing this as as a warning
for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
So I think it was a beautiful answer and I had a
very thoughtful um and there's alot of good information in
there, so I appreciate you beingcandid and talking about it.
It's a tough thing to talkabout.
I know, you know I've had thisconversation with a lot of
athletes and some people chooseto not talk about it.
Some people choose to be veryopen.
So it's an interesting thing.
The reason I ask you is becauseyou, in a lot of ways, were
personally affected in the sensethat you were in the top 10 at
(32:23):
OCC and that bumps you up a spotand I know, and I don't know
what your situation is like.
You know, but I know for a lotof people like there's bonuses
wrapped up in these things andmonetary stuff and it gets
complicated.
So yeah, I appreciate your,your candidness.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, no, a lot of athletes are talking about it
and I think for trail runnersit's just like really hitting
home like wow, this has happenednow a number of times and we
want to keep our sport cleanyeah and yeah, it's like, okay,
everyone, let's, let's really doour best, like even this week.
(33:01):
you know it's like does someone,is someone having like issues
sleeping in their chalet?
Okay, let's look at the drugsthat you're safe to take, and
everyone is doing that.
And yeah, I just hope that wecan all look out for each other.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So, I love it.
I love it.
All right, let's talk worlds,the reason we're here, obviously
, amongst a lot of other things,but I am really excited for
next week, as I think you guysall are.
I think the first things firstis I got to ask you the question
.
I think there's a lot of folksthat take immense pride in
representing their country.
What does that mean to you torepresent Team Canada?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, it's something new and it's very it does feel
like it elevates it in this waykind of parallels the Olympics,
and it's pretty special.
I mean, it's a different way ofcompeting.
In some ways, there's the teamaspect as well.
(34:01):
I myself, personally, Idefinitely have a lot of people
to get to know.
So I think there's a lot ofCanadians that I haven't met yet
and, yeah, there's some strongrunners out there.
Yeah, so it's kind of cool.
I've always thought about, like, when will be the day that I'm
(34:21):
wearing the Canadian flag orthings like that.
But yeah, I guess next weekwe'll get to do that.
And, um, yeah, some some mapleleaf magic for everyone.
So yeah it's.
It's gonna be pretty fun supercool.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
What, um, what is the like the?
What do they have you guysdoing?
Like?
Do you have, basically, do theyset you up with like a media
schedule and all the stuff thatyou guys have to do pre-race?
Is there a lot of thingsinvolved with that or is it
pretty much whatever you guyswant to do pre-race?
How does that work?
Is there stipulations and stuffyou got to go through?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, so this is my first year going through the
whole thing, going through thewhole whole whole thing, and as
far as I understand, there aresome ceremonies and I believe
we're they're walking down thestreet and we got some flags and
we're all decked out, um, andI'm not sure how many countries
(35:18):
are attending, um, it's it's afair number 20, 30, maybe 40.
But anyways, somewhere in thereand it'll be cool to see, you
know, like Australia, newZealand, all over Europe, asia,
the Americas.
So yeah, it's kind of wild, andI think there's going to be a
(35:41):
lot of people that we're notused to competing against.
You know, it's not just anotherutmb, um, I truly do think
there's going to be a lot ofdark horses, some really strong
runners, um, especially runningon these trails, um, very
technical things like that.
So yeah, it's kind of.
(36:02):
It's really interesting whetherit's going to be like the usuals
.
Is it going to be like the JimWalmsley's and Katie Scheid's
who still rise to the top, or,like, are they going to be
fighting tooth and nail withsomeone that we're not familiar
with at all?
So yeah, there's a lot ofpresentations, things like that,
um, and then definitely some ofthe processes are, it seems
(36:29):
like a little bit more strict.
Um, like before the race.
We're all in this room, they'relike going through our kit,
things like that.
You know it's it's only elitesracing.
There are no recreationalrunners.
Um and uh, yeah, so it might besome different race dynamics
too, like at least for the longtrail course, especially with so
(36:51):
much elevation we will likelyhave.
You know, the men will be aheadfor the women's field.
At the top you're still passinga lot of guys, which can add
like some motivation to yourrunning.
(37:12):
Anytime I see someone ahead,it's like oh okay, this is
another person to chase, soit'll be interesting not having
that quite as much.
If that changes things, I don'tknow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
So yeah, there's definitely going to be some
differences for sure.
Interesting so course itselffor the listeners 50-ish miles,
18,000 feet-ish avert somewherein that ballpark.
What's your immediate reactionto the course?
I know I've heard technical.
Basically that's what I'veheard is just different, and
technical is what people havetold me.
Yeah, I haven't seen it with myown eyes, so you paint the
(37:48):
picture then.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be different than any
other race I've ever heard of,for sure.
So reason why is a lot of it isnot on trail at all.
You're literally going throughgraphs, grass, you're going
(38:11):
through fields, um, so it's gotthis like orienteery kind of
vibe to it.
Of course it will be flagged,um, but uh, yeah, that will be
interesting.
And then, um, yeah, it's, it'sa true mountain race.
I would say, however we'redefining mountain running, but,
(38:33):
um, so there's like a fewsections.
You're going up a gully, youcan be using your hands, um, the
rock is still pretty loose.
So, yeah, usually in NorthAmerica this would not be an
irregular trail race.
It's like, well, this issomething I would do with my
friends, but I haven't racedthis before.
(38:54):
It's kind of got that skyrunning vibe to it and we're
going to have to be careful tonot be putting rocks down on
each other, things like thatdown on each other, things like
that.
Um, all, most of the downhillsare extremely technical, very
chunky, not super flowy.
Um, some of them are likedozens of switchbacks and I know
(39:19):
we're all going to be cursingthe switchbacks.
Um, yeah, and then there's likesome sections where it's like
full rock and you're just um,again, there's like no trail or
anything, so very wild.
I think it's going to be verymentally stimulating, slash
draining.
So, um, near the end of the 50miles, that's where, like, yeah,
(39:45):
if you're not fueling oranything and you're not stoked
about it, like that's going tostart to chew you up for sure.
Um, I think any fast, smoothrunners they might struggle on
this course.
So I think really the technicalrunners are going to shine and
those who are used to like thisis going to run like 100k or
(40:08):
120k race.
Um, it's definitely not.
I would just consider it a 50miler.
It's going to be slow, um, yeah,and then we'll also see is, uh,
how their course marshalling,um, I think a lot of the north
americans are really curiousabout that aspect because there
(40:30):
are so many switchbacks andevery time there's a lot,
there's also a trail that goesstraight through them all oh
christ, here we go, here we goso, um, I think we're all kind
of like okay, how are we goingto make this fair, like you
either need to say absolutelynot, and I don't know if they're
(40:53):
going to be checking gpx filesor anything like that because
it's very normal and accepted ineurope to just take the
straight line yeah, um, yeah, so, and that would shame off a lot
of time for sure.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So, yeah, um, yeah, we're hoping they bring that up
and, um, hopefully, we, we don'tsee people cutting corners if
that's the rule, yeah, I hopethey, yeah, they listen like in
the sense where they're open tookay, like this, is there's
potential here for you know, andit shouldn't be open for
interpretation is what I'mtrying to get you know it should
(41:30):
be very black and white.
Uh, do you, how does it workwith like mandatory kits for you
guys like, do they make youhave like I know utmb is like
very well known for oh, you gotto bring your your cold gear
pants and all that mumbo jumbo?
Like, do you guys have to havelike all this mandatory stuff in
your pack that they'll likecheck and stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
yeah, we do and, honestly, this is kind of like
the first race.
Especially if it was a stormyweather day, I would be like we
100 should have all that gear.
Um, yeah, I, right now theweather is looking okay, so
knock on wood.
But, um, if, if it were stormyand if people were out there for
(42:13):
12 plus hours, um, yeah, it'sdefinitely an area that you
would want to have your space,blanket and pants and everything
.
So, yeah, it's similar to utmb,um, in terms of requirements
and um, it sounds like they willbe checking everyone's kit and
literally weighing the jacketsand um, yeah, it sounds like in
(42:39):
the past there has been thingsum, yeah, people trying to get
around it and putting nickelsand dimes in their pockets and
things like that.
So, yeah, oh man, anything towin.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I get it.
I get it Really cool.
You posted a really neat.
I'm a big animal guy.
I always love the animal stuff,like with local wildlife.
I'll tell you a funny story.
When I used to live in SouthFlorida we had wild pigs
everywhere and I went to jumpover a down palm tree one time
on a trail and I literallylanded on top of a wild pig
that's like that got freaked outand then chased me for like a
(43:17):
few yards scared the life likeliving daylights out of me.
You had a similar experience.
I don't think you were chased,though, like that was a much
bigger pig than the one I saw.
What was, uh, what was thatexperience like?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
yeah, yeah, so I I didn't even think they had pigs
here, but, um, I guess they do.
So, yeah, it was like a really.
You know, it was a back-to-backday, so I was super tired and
kind of out of it and just bymyself and like crested this
hill, put my foot down andwasn't really paying attention
(43:51):
and there was like some like abig black blob in my periphery,
like only a foot or two awayfrom me, and like my mind was
starting to work and trying tofigure out this puzzle of what
it was.
And then it started moving andfirst I thought it was like a
dead body and then I was likeholy shit, this thing is alive.
(44:14):
And then I was like, oh my God,this is a wild boar.
I almost stepped on it and thenI kind of like shrieked and
then it got up and was superspooked and we both just like
bolted opposite ways and then II like had my running poles out
(44:34):
ready and ran for a tree.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Dude, they're mean, like they can be mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, yeah, because I remember a while back I moved
to New Zealand and I used tohave like nightmares about like
having to fend myself againstwild boars, yeah.
But this guy, he like went 20feet away, stopped and then was
just like checking me out and Iwas doing the same thing, and
then we both peaced out.
(45:02):
So yeah it was.
But if I had actually steppedon him, who knows, I might have
been in the same shoes as you.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
So yeah, yeah, terrifying, terrifying.
I thought when I looked at thestory I was like is that a bear
for?
Am I looking at it?
I'm like trying to like zoom in.
I'm like, holy shit, that's awild boar like you don't see too
.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, I did not know yeah, yeah, so far, people have
like there's like the wild orwild, there's like the wild or
wild cow, there's like theHighland cows everywhere and you
know, as runners you do need tobe careful and like pay them
respects.
So oftentimes they'll like goaway off trail and around them.
(45:38):
And I have been charged by thecows before and then I think
just recently, like Sarah Alonsogot literally like trampled or
something and yeah, really,really scary.
So there's that.
You know the cows see you andthey just kind of stare and
you're like okay, you'll goaround and then, um, also the
(45:59):
sheep, um, sheep are great, butthen sometimes there's sheep
dogs like hidden inside the herdof sheep and then they'll come
at you and uh, like I ran intomartina and emily, emily, um
schmidt, and uh, yeah, they saidthey got like followed by three
(46:20):
of those dogs and they're likesnarling and and barking and
stuff.
So yeah, there's a few thingshere you need to watch out for.
I mean, it's it's not likeCanada where you're always like
grizzly bears, but um, yeah, youneed to be careful, so
interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
The perils, the perils of the course, almost
down to one final questionwhat's going to be the race day
shoe?
Are you wearing like an arcproto, or are you going to be
doing like a something that'sout now like what are you?
What are you rocking these days?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
yeah, good question.
I will probably still bewearing the silence.
Um, to me they're just kind ofmy my go-to shoe.
I feel very comfortable in them.
Um, they are sending me thesilent twos so I think they get
here today or tomorrow and um,they do have an updated foam
that's a little bit more, um,energetically positive.
(47:13):
So I am very stoked to to trythem out and might be racing in
those.
So, yeah, be fun.
But uh, yeah, I do expect it'sgoing to be a long day.
I don't know.
Top men's times might be aroundnine hours.
Top women's times might be like, I don't know, 10 and a half to
(47:34):
11, 12 hours.
We'll be somewhere in thatballpark.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
It's going to be a long day out.
I mean, this is always a hardquestion to ask, but what's next
after this?
Are you going to have some longdowntime or are you going to
get right back into it?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Definitely.
Yeah, it's.
This is going to be off season.
I was considering doing Doi,thailand, but I'm like, nah, no,
let's, let's just chill.
Um, I've got some fun stuffcoming up.
Um, another trip to Switzerland.
Uh, arcteryx, we're doing aweek fast pack through the
Balkans and Albania together, soreally stoked for that, and
(48:12):
then at some point I'll get backto the US and then at some
point I'll get back to Canadaand then it's just going to be
like let's chill, let's sleep.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Downtime.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Just be normal.
Yeah, I feel you on that.
Yeah, I may be looking at agolden ticket race next year and
then maybe CCC.
I guess we'll see, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Super cool, super cool.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
All right.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Well, I want to say thank you so much for coming on
and I appreciate you for beingopen for so many things and
talking about all this goodstuff from your year and wish
you the best of luck on race dayand I hope it's an amazing
experience for you, especiallybeing your first one, like
representing team Canada, Likethat's so cool.
So I hope you soak it in andit's a very special not just day
, but week for you.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, absolutely, it's going to be super special.
Thanks, james.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yeah, no problem.
(50:04):
Thanks, jasmine, Appreciate it.
Thank you.
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