September 18, 2025 • 24 mins
Every summer, thousands of runners journey to Manitou Springs for America's Ultimate Challenge – the legendary Pikes Peak Marathon. For three-time champion Kristina Mascarenas, this race represents something far deeper than just another mountain to conquer.
"It's just you're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die," Kristina candidly shares, capturing the essence of what draws elite athletes back to this grueling event year after year. "You know this is a test against yourself. Everybody that's out here is doing it and everybody's testing themselves."
In this revealing conversation, Kristina opens up about her 2024 racing season, including a difficult DNF at Black Canyon 100K that prompted her to refocus on events that bring joy rather than pressure. She discusses her strategic approach to shorter races like the Broken Arrow 23K and her triumphant win at the Barr Trail Mountain Race – perfect preparation for her upcoming attempt at a historic fourth Pikes Peak Marathon victory.
The personal connection to Pikes Peak runs deep for Kristina, who's planning a multi-generational family participation for next year's race. Her intimate knowledge of every section of the mountain, from equipment choices to weather considerations, reveals why she's become synonymous with this iconic event. Yet she remains humble, joking about being labeled a "backyard betty" despite achievements that place her among the all-time greats of mountain running.
Whether you're fascinated by the mental aspects of endurance sports, curious about elite training approaches, or simply drawn to stories of human potential, Christina's journey reminds us why we challenge mountains – not just to reach their summits, but to discover what lies within ourselves when pushed to the edge of possibility.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
They all start here and make their way towards the
clouds.
It's time.
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen.
We are live it's been probablyabout a year, a little bit over
that so excited to catch up andsee what you've been up to this
summer.
It looks like quite a lot andchat about Pike's Peak as well.
How many times have you runthis race?
I mean I know how many timesyou've won it.
It's three times the marathon,Am I correct on that?
(02:17):
That's what the stats said onUltra Sign Up.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah, so I've done it a total of eight times.
Yeah, so I've done it a totalof eight times.
But okay, yeah, two of themwere ascents, because the first
time I ran it was just theascent and then I had a broken
foot all summer and I just gotthe boot off and I didn't want
to miss out, so I just kind ofpower hiked the ascent, just uh
just for fun.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Was this one also about to prove it to your
brother as well, or no?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
no, I wait.
But he's like like well, ifthere's no harm, it's like zero
impact.
You might as well, or no, no, Iwould.
But he's like well, if there'sno harm, it's like zero impact,
you might as well go have funearn some cookies.
I was like all right, we'll doit.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Fair enough, I got to ask you I think this is
probably the most importantquestion of this conversation
what does this race mean to you?
I mean, it's got to be soimportant no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
sad to miss it yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
No, it's so special.
I mean, one of the things Kathyand I had talked about so many
times when we did board meetingsand stuff like that was just
you got brought up a lot andalso just the generational stuff
, with so many of your familymembers being involved with the
race and stuff like that, it'sjust very special.
It's very cool that it's such acool hometown race for you.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yeah, at our last family gathering I told everyone
that they need to starttraining today because next year
we're all going to do it.
So I'm trying to get my mom todo it, and then my middle niece
to do it, and then me and mystepdad wants to do it, and then
my uncle, who lives in Seattle,might come out and do it.
So I was like we need to get asmany family members on the peak
as humanly possible.
So I planted the seat early sothat way they can train for it.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
All right, 2026.
That'll be, I think that's.
Is that the 70th anniversary ofthe ascent?
So it'd be 71st for themarathon, 74th ascent, that
would be.
Yeah, you got to do it.
That'd be amazing.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
It's like three generations on the on the
mountain, I was missing theanniversary, but now we can just
do the ascent.
They'll be happy.
They only have to go up.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There you go.
Yeah, they don't have to rundown, let's uh, all right, so
let's get into it.
Obviously it it's been a reallybusy season for you.
You've had a fantastic finishat the Broken Arrow 23K.
You've been racing a decentlike, not a crazy amount, but
you've been getting out thereand winning races, like you won
BTMR.
How has the season overall feltfor you?
(04:53):
Like, does it seem like oneblock after another and you're
feeling really healthy?
Do you feel tired?
Like how has things kind ofplayed out?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I still feel like I'm a little bit tired.
2024 kind of beat me up, flyinginternationally so many times.
I feel like I just needed tostay local and catch up on sleep
and let the body heal a littlebit.
And then I had a DNF at BlackCanyon so I was just pretty sad.
So I pulled back from racing alittle bit and I've just kind of
tried to race anything thatsounds fun to me.
(05:23):
So I'm habitually rehabbing aleft foot that just like won't
get better.
So hopefully this winter I cantake some time off and really
get that fully healed.
But with what I have and what Iwas coming off of, I feel like
I've done pretty good.
So it's amazing, yeah.
And race is another one whereyou just can't miss it.
Those aid stations are so funny, they're worth just going just
to view.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Let's talk.
I do.
I don't want to get too deepinto Black Canyon because we
moved on.
I want to move on quick fromthat one.
We don't want to talk about DNS.
I'm just curious, like what thehell made you want to run like
100k?
Was it just like curiosity orlike what was this?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah, I think it was curiosity, and a lot of people
have just told me, like you havea forever gear that you can
just sit in forever, like youshould just try it out, see how
it goes.
Like my fatigue resistance ispretty high and I'm not saying
it's not, it just wasn't my day.
I mean, even the first milefelt way too hard for the pace.
It was just one of those dayswhere you wake up and the body's
(06:18):
like no, thank you, and I justkept tripping over stuff and
once the golden ticket was likeso far out of reach, I was just
like why, why am I going to gokeep falling on my face in the
desert?
So I did end up calling it likemile 50, 52 or something like
that, because it just seems notthe best idea to continue.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I can't help, but ask you said.
You said the word golden ticketLike if you would have gotten
it, you would have gone toWestern.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Oh hell, no, no, no.
But it's something that, like,you want to just see, you know,
because it's a really it'ssomething that's highly coveted,
obviously, and so I don't, Idefinitely wouldn't run 100
miles, not definitely I probablywouldn't run 100 miles and I
just, I don't know, it's justsomething to shoot for.
It's like an Olympic, likequalifier for the marathon.
(07:02):
Like you're probably not goingto go to the Olympics but you
want to hit that trial timeright.
It's just like a thing.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, no, fair enough .
Fair enough, what?
Um?
So what did you think afterthat?
Do you think you'll ever goback and try it again, or no?
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Uh, I strongly disliked, so I don't know that I
would try that one.
But if there's a moremountainous one, that was 100k,
that would definitely call to memore.
So maybe I'll look at canyonsor something like that.
I'll definitely have to finish100k at some point, just so 80
year old Tina can look back andnot have to wonder if I could.
(07:36):
You know so, but we'll see.
I would like to do somethingmore in the mountains, but I'm
not a desert girl.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Fair enough, fair enough.
Now listen, you know I got tocommend you for taking the swing
.
You know a lot of people willprobably wonder, you know, if
they don't wind up doing it like.
You know what would have beenlike if I didn't give it a crack
.
So good on you for giving it atry.
And lunch I don't want to misslunch, I don't want to miss.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I for sure don't want to miss dinner, that's true.
I don't want to run that long.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Let's get into Broken Arrow.
So I got to ask you thequestion, especially having made
a Worlds team in the past.
I'm just out of curiosity whynot the Broken Arrow 46k this
year?
Why were you?
Why the 23k?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Man.
I asked myself that a bunch oftimes and I still do and I
honestly I think it comes backto that DNF and I was like I
just need to run shorter, like Ineed to like pull it back and
go somewhere I'm comfortable andjust like run hard.
And I was like I can for surerun hard for 13 miles.
I was like I don't know if Ican run hard for, you know, 26
(08:46):
miles right now.
So I think, unfortunately, Idid it from a place of not
trusting my racing, like, yeah,I look back I'm like, oh, it
would have been so fun to do itand it was the year to do it.
Right, there was no snow, itwasn't crazy, it was fast, it
was runnable, which is my jam.
But yeah, I was just not a goodmental space to run that
distance and I love the GoldenTrail Series and the whole
weekend out there, so fun.
(09:07):
So I didn't want to fully missout.
So I was like, okay, we'll justdo the 23k and go enjoy the
weekend and cheer everybody on.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
It's amazing.
It's crazy that we were in ayear where the 46k was almost as
like.
The 23k and 46k were both themost competitive races on the
day, same with the ascent.
It was all insanely competitive.
Usually, the 23k on the weekendis usually the most competitive
, which is wild, but this timearound it seemed like every
distance was just bananas withthe Golden Trail.
What did you take away from it?
(09:36):
Coming back to Golden Trail andracing, was it just as exciting
as it had been in previousyears?
What were the emotions like foryou as exciting as it had been
in previous years.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Like, what were the emotions like for you?
Yeah, um, it was exciting and Ilove seeing everybody there,
like all the fun and it's justsuch good energy.
But yeah, I was, I was kickingmyself for not doing the 46 K,
so a little bit of regret forsure, cause um I why I don't
want to run all day, I am alittle better, a little longer.
So it just kind of makes youwonder like, oh, what could I
(10:12):
have done?
But I will say flying down thatdirt road on fresh legs was
amazing, like you could justcook into that finish.
So that was, that was really agood ego boost for me, because
with my foot being all messed up, I was like maybe I just can't
run downhill anymore.
But I was like, oh no, yourlast K was like a 450.
Like you're fine, that's insane.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Oh man, so it had to have been a good feeling Top 15
result in such a stacked group.
It was an amazing group ofwomen that were out there
throwing down, yeah.
But what were your thoughts onthat?
Were you happy with the result?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
on.
Yeah, but what were yourthoughts on that?
Were you happy with the result?
No, you know it's well.
It's so hard to say because, nomatter how stacked the field is
like, to place outside the top10 is just kind of a hard pill
to swallow, even if you knowit's a good place, like.
My logical brain is like youdid well, you ran fast, like I
was trying to like really latchon to the positives but at the
end of the day, that like 14thplace is just kind of like well,
(11:03):
it's a big number.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
So still amazing, still amazing.
We're all hard, listen.
We're all hard on ourselves.
I get it.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I get it.
Well, we wouldn't be here if wewere satisfied with anything
other than like a podium forreal, Like you would just get
one and then be like all doneand move on.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
It's true, they keep coming back for for more.
Let's, let's get into pikes.
Let's talk pikes and BTMR.
You came out to BTMR,absolutely demolished that
course at an amazing day.
I got the dub um, obviouslyprobably a nice little tune up
for a race like pikes, peak, um,especially being on the same
trail and things like that.
How did BTMR feel for you?
Was that just a nice day out,like good workout?
(11:41):
How did you treat it Like?
Was it more race effort for youor or a workout?
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yeah, so it was a bit more of a workout for me.
So I didn't taper in.
Um, and I've got some goodfriends that I uh have a
friendly competition with andthey they specifically told me
they wanted to beat me.
So I was like, all right, well,it's going to be a really hard
workout then.
And so I went in and I feltpretty dead on the climb.
That was probably one of myworst climbs I've had in a long
time.
I got up probably a minute anda half or two slower and but I
(12:09):
felt great.
I just like wasn't snappybecause I wasn't tapered, and so
I just turned around andeverybody was so fun I just
remember saying hi to everyoneand just flying down and then
all of a sudden I was like onhydro and I was like, oh my gosh
, I think I just blanked outthat whole descent and I wasn't
able to actually get like a 30second PR.
So that's really good,considering how bad my climb was
(12:30):
.
So it was a big ego goose forme.
I was like, okay, like yourfueling is going well, like you
can still turn the legs over ifyou need to.
So it was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Whoa, so 30 second PR , especially for all the times
that you've ran on that trailtoo, like that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, oh.
So 30 seconds, like, probablynot like um.
I did get a few like crowns ifyou were looking at Sigma, um or
segments on Strava for me, butlike just overall 30 seconds.
So I don't know, because I feellike those big boulders are a
little cumbersome to get around.
You kind of have to slow downand make sure you're not going
to topple anybody over, becauseyou can't see past one of them
(13:07):
and the trail's open and I neverwant to be that person that
takes out a child or something.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's not good PR, Especially for you.
Multiple-time champion takesout kid Not a good headline.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, oh, my Only.
Their mom would be screaming atme and I'd be crying.
It would be a hot mess.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Oh God, all right.
Last year you missed this race.
You didn't come out to racejust because Golden Trail and
Mammoth.
Last year it was a busy summer.
This year you're obviouslycoming back.
I can ask you about this Wereyou happy to miss it last year,
especially given the fact thatit was shortened?
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Do you know what?
The fact that it was shortenedmade it easier to swallow, that
I missed it, but it would havebeen like a slightly longer bar
trail mountain race, which I dolove too.
So I guess once you sign up forsomething, you just have to be
willing to accept whatever thatrace presents itself on that day
Like.
Is it going to be 98 degrees,you know?
(14:03):
Are you going to get stung inthe face by a bee?
Is it going to get shortened?
Is it going to snow?
So it's all part of the game.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Have you looked at forecasts for this year at all?
I haven't.
I haven't checked anything LikeI know we're still a little far
out, but I'm just so curious asto what, like.
I hope it's just a beautifulday in the mountains for you
guys.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, honestly, I would pick a little snow over
like 90.
It's easier to fuel.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's true.
The only thing is is it's likeI wonder with the from a risk
profile perspective if it doessnow a little bit, if they let,
like it's one thing for theascent, but if for the marathon,
if they would let people upthere like I don't know if they
would be willing to do it.
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
You're running down.
Well, there was a little bit ofsnow in 2023.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, you're right, you're right there was.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
And I was super worried.
So I wore really like shoes Iwasn't super comfortable in, but
they had better grip and myfeet were on fire by the end.
I will not do that again.
I'm just gonna wear my normalshoes, because it wasn't that
slippery up there.
I knew better.
I was just like psyched myselfout.
But yeah, that last mile had acouple stretches of decent snow
accumulation.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Wow.
So with that, though, whatshoes were you wearing for this
year, or what would you?
What are you going to go forfrom a shoe selection?
Wise?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I'll probably do the Solomon Pulsar Pros.
I have one pair left.
I bought a ton before they kindof stopped making them and I'm
on my last pair, so I don't knowwhat I'm going to do after this
.
This might be their last race.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I'm on the market, oh man, If there's a Solomon rep
listening to this guys.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Please help.
I'm on one.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So this would be I mean, I got asked the question
like this would be your fourthwin.
What would that mean to you towin this race again?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Oh, it would be so cool.
Um, it's just I don't know.
I feel like you got to defendyour home turf a little bit and
there's so many fast women inColorado Springs, so I'm sure it
would stay here, I guess, causethere's not a big international
um competition fieldcompetition field that I know of
.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yet yet.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah.
So it would just mean a lot,and I don't know, I like to make
arbitrary marks and it wouldmaybe be cool to get five wins
or something like that, and thenI could be like all right,
that's enough.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I mean it's kind of cool, though, Like you think
about it.
I haven't had this conversationwith John yet either, but it's
kind of neat, cause, like you'dbe going for four, is he?
Would he be going for four orfive?
I think he'd be going for fouras well, which is kind of crazy.
Like you guys are up there,like that's history in the race
you know.
Like you're up there in thediscussions then with you know
your Mac carpenters of the worldand your Joes and people that
(16:37):
have you know your Joes andpeople that have you know set
records and done amazing things.
Like you know, in the race inits own right, is that a little
weird, like when you, when youthink about your name being like
synonymous with that race, likeit's kind of a crazy thing to
be wrapped up in the history ofit.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Yeah, oh.
I just feel like I couldn'teven start to put my name in the
same category as Matt Carpenter, hasn't?
He won it like 10 times.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I have no idea.
I should know this, butespecially because I want to
interview him one day.
I should know.
Obviously, I think it mighteven be more than that.
It's crazy.
He's so insane, yeah, but thinkabout it.
I mean in the sense where anyperson that's won more than
three times, I think it's aconversation, Even if you've won
in the three-time range.
It's a conversation whereyou're a multiple time winner of
(17:21):
the race.
You know, you get into thatconversation of, you know the
greats and people that haveraced this race, which is kind
of cool.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Oh, thanks, it was funny.
I was running broken arrow orbreakneck point when it was the
qualifier for worlds and Iwasn't really mentioned except
for in this little blurb at thebottom of this, like right up,
and it was like and thenchristina mascarina, she's a
little bit of a backyard bettybut she's won a few things and
so every time I win pike speak,I'm like, well, I'm just
backyard betty out here,backyard, you know, only doing
(17:51):
my, my bread and butter racesthat's actually really funny.
I can't believe they said and so, yeah, every time I win it,
i'm'm kind of like yep, you knowyour regular backyard pity.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
On that, though.
Do you feel the pressure then?
Because Pikes Peak you do haveso dialed, it is your backyard
peak.
Do you feel not just thepressure to win a race like this
, but do you feel pressure toperform outside of Pikes Peak as
well?
Speaker 4 (18:25):
feel pressure on Pikes Week because I should be
able to nail it every time andeveryone's human and you have a
bad day.
But yeah, I feel like to losewould hurt the most because I
don't really mind if I gave itmy all and not placing at any
other race, but I feel like itwould sting, particularly for
this one.
But I don't think anybodyexpects anything of me outside
of this race, which is kind ofnice, so I think everyone just
(18:47):
assumes I only can run straightup and straight down which they
might Right.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Listen, I either way you're, you're an all time great
and it's just amazing.
It's a, it's an honor Like Ican't.
Hopefully, next year we'll betalking about the fifth one, so
it's going to be be.
It's gonna be crazy where we'reat um christina.
I appreciate it so much.
Thanks for coming on.
This is an amazing conversationand wishing you the best of
luck in your uh pursuit of thefourth pikes peak marathon win
(19:14):
awesome.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Thank you so much for having me and thanks for all of
your fun podcasts.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I really enjoyed listening to everybody that
you're interviewing, so keep itup oh, thanks, appreciate, hey,
before I let you go, I have onequestion for you, and we can cut
this out, if not.
I just this is something I'vebeen stewing on today because
Jolene tested positive.
I wanted to get your take,especially on from the golden
trails and, like I said, we cancut this out.
This is not doesn importanttime in our sport, like what are
(19:43):
your thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Man.
So I have so many mixedemotions on this.
I feel sad that we live in aworld where Jolene needs this
prize money so desperately tofeed her family and to make a
life for herself and that she'sin a position where almost that
you would do anything to makesure your kids are okay, and so
my heart bleeds for it.
But I don't know how to set upa system that doesn't reward
(20:07):
winning when it's a competition,and I'm glad that they're doing
testing.
I'm glad that she got caught.
I do think doping is morerampant than people want to talk
about, like if you go fromnowhere or placing in your age
group to winning and you're pastyour 30s, like I'm pretty
suspicious.
So yeah, I mean, and they cuther off cold turkey, right.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, she was dropped .
Speaker 4 (20:35):
But I mean there have been other athletes that didn't
get dropped, that have testedpositive, so I feel like there
needs to be a standard, so Iagree there yeah, it's, it's an
interesting place in the sport Ibut so this hit me near and
dear to.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I was thinking about it because, you're right, like
jolene was in a place where andthere's a lot to this like I've
had some conversations, uh, withathletes I won't talk about, uh
, like in regards to anti-dopingand just in regards to Kenyan
runners specifically, and Ithink there's a lot of
situations that people don'tunderstand with managers and
with coaches, and where you gotto remember like and not just
(21:15):
not you, but like just theaudience, but like man, like
people you know Kenyans, in alot of places is very poor and
when you have to provide foryour family, and where a lot of
times, you'll get into thesecoaching situations where or
managers or coaches will takeadvantage of you monetarily.
That's so common and it's for alot of Kenyan athletes,
unfortunately, and it puts youin a weird spot.
(21:37):
And then, when it comes to thedoping perspective, it's like
doped and we know, and like youtook it willing, like we, you
know, but at the same time, likeis is that your only way out?
Is your coach, you know,pushing that, because the coach
that got, um, her coach, thesame, uh, there was I forget his
name is robert something um whotested positive um at uh series
(21:59):
and all in 2022.
He was his coach as well, soit's like a super common thing
amongst the coaches.
So it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
it's wild yeah, the coach athlete dynamic is is the
tricky one.
I mean, you look at any highlevel sport, like all the
gymnastic stuff that came out,you know now all of this doping
stuff.
It's just the power dynamic isnot fair.
Yeah, they're so sad all theway around.
I feel bad for the athletesthat were cheated of their
(22:26):
podiums and of their money andmy heart goes out to I don't
know to so many people.
And then part of me is a littlebit mad.
I'm like, well, no wonder I get14th place.
I'm clean at work full time.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, no serious.
Well, that's the thing.
You're not the only person thatsays that, you know, and it
makes a lot of sense and I wouldbe angry too.
You know, it's a.
It's a weird position, it's aweird spot and I hope we can do
just as a community.
We can continue to either builda framework for more
anti-doping or do something,maybe an out-of-season testing
pool that we can figure out.
But yeah, I appreciate yourperspective.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I was just so curious , just because it happened to
come out today and we justhappened to be chatting and I
was like curious to see whatyour thoughts were.
So oh yeah, definitely it hasbeen a hot topic today.
I mean, I've gotten it sent tome by like three or four people
and I've sent it to a few people, and so I've been talking about
it since I found out as well,and I mean I think we do need to
continue talking about itbecause it's obviously a big
issue.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, definitely, definitely Well, christina,
thank you so much.
Have a wonderful evening, happyanniversary and uh you know
we'll be in touch.
Good luck, and uh hope to chatwith you after Pikes Peak.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Awesome.
Yeah, hope to see you there.
Crush your uh Cirque series inSeattle.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Thank you, appreciate you, take care.
Bye, thank you.
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
They all start here and make their way towards the
clouds.
It's time.
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen.
We are live it's been probablyabout a year, a little bit over
that so excited to catch up andsee what you've been up to this
summer.
It looks like quite a lot andchat about Pike's Peak as well.
How many times have you runthis race?
I mean I know how many timesyou've won it.
It's three times the marathon,Am I correct on that?
(02:17):
That's what the stats said onUltra Sign Up.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah, so I've done it a total of eight times.
Yeah, so I've done it a totalof eight times.
But okay, yeah, two of themwere ascents, because the first
time I ran it was just theascent and then I had a broken
foot all summer and I just gotthe boot off and I didn't want
to miss out, so I just kind ofpower hiked the ascent, just uh
just for fun.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Was this one also about to prove it to your
brother as well, or no?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
no, I wait.
But he's like like well, ifthere's no harm, it's like zero
impact.
You might as well, or no, no, Iwould.
But he's like well, if there'sno harm, it's like zero impact,
you might as well go have funearn some cookies.
I was like all right, we'll doit.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Fair enough, I got to ask you I think this is
probably the most importantquestion of this conversation
what does this race mean to you?
I mean, it's got to be soimportant no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
sad to miss it yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
No, it's so special.
I mean, one of the things Kathyand I had talked about so many
times when we did board meetingsand stuff like that was just
you got brought up a lot andalso just the generational stuff
, with so many of your familymembers being involved with the
race and stuff like that, it'sjust very special.
It's very cool that it's such acool hometown race for you.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yeah, at our last family gathering I told everyone
that they need to starttraining today because next year
we're all going to do it.
So I'm trying to get my mom todo it, and then my middle niece
to do it, and then me and mystepdad wants to do it, and then
my uncle, who lives in Seattle,might come out and do it.
So I was like we need to get asmany family members on the peak
as humanly possible.
So I planted the seat early sothat way they can train for it.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
All right, 2026.
That'll be, I think that's.
Is that the 70th anniversary ofthe ascent?
So it'd be 71st for themarathon, 74th ascent, that
would be.
Yeah, you got to do it.
That'd be amazing.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
It's like three generations on the on the
mountain, I was missing theanniversary, but now we can just
do the ascent.
They'll be happy.
They only have to go up.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There you go.
Yeah, they don't have to rundown, let's uh, all right, so
let's get into it.
Obviously it it's been a reallybusy season for you.
You've had a fantastic finishat the Broken Arrow 23K.
You've been racing a decentlike, not a crazy amount, but
you've been getting out thereand winning races, like you won
BTMR.
How has the season overall feltfor you?
(04:53):
Like, does it seem like oneblock after another and you're
feeling really healthy?
Do you feel tired?
Like how has things kind ofplayed out?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I still feel like I'm a little bit tired.
2024 kind of beat me up, flyinginternationally so many times.
I feel like I just needed tostay local and catch up on sleep
and let the body heal a littlebit.
And then I had a DNF at BlackCanyon so I was just pretty sad.
So I pulled back from racing alittle bit and I've just kind of
tried to race anything thatsounds fun to me.
(05:23):
So I'm habitually rehabbing aleft foot that just like won't
get better.
So hopefully this winter I cantake some time off and really
get that fully healed.
But with what I have and what Iwas coming off of, I feel like
I've done pretty good.
So it's amazing, yeah.
And race is another one whereyou just can't miss it.
Those aid stations are so funny, they're worth just going just
to view.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Let's talk.
I do.
I don't want to get too deepinto Black Canyon because we
moved on.
I want to move on quick fromthat one.
We don't want to talk about DNS.
I'm just curious, like what thehell made you want to run like
100k?
Was it just like curiosity orlike what was this?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Yeah, I think it was curiosity, and a lot of people
have just told me, like you havea forever gear that you can
just sit in forever, like youshould just try it out, see how
it goes.
Like my fatigue resistance ispretty high and I'm not saying
it's not, it just wasn't my day.
I mean, even the first milefelt way too hard for the pace.
It was just one of those dayswhere you wake up and the body's
(06:18):
like no, thank you, and I justkept tripping over stuff and
once the golden ticket was likeso far out of reach, I was just
like why, why am I going to gokeep falling on my face in the
desert?
So I did end up calling it likemile 50, 52 or something like
that, because it just seems notthe best idea to continue.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I can't help, but ask you said.
You said the word golden ticketLike if you would have gotten
it, you would have gone toWestern.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Oh hell, no, no, no.
But it's something that, like,you want to just see, you know,
because it's a really it'ssomething that's highly coveted,
obviously, and so I don't, Idefinitely wouldn't run 100
miles, not definitely I probablywouldn't run 100 miles and I
just, I don't know, it's justsomething to shoot for.
It's like an Olympic, likequalifier for the marathon.
(07:02):
Like you're probably not goingto go to the Olympics but you
want to hit that trial timeright.
It's just like a thing.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, no, fair enough .
Fair enough, what?
Um?
So what did you think afterthat?
Do you think you'll ever goback and try it again, or no?
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Uh, I strongly disliked, so I don't know that I
would try that one.
But if there's a moremountainous one, that was 100k,
that would definitely call to memore.
So maybe I'll look at canyonsor something like that.
I'll definitely have to finish100k at some point, just so 80
year old Tina can look back andnot have to wonder if I could.
(07:36):
You know so, but we'll see.
I would like to do somethingmore in the mountains, but I'm
not a desert girl.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Fair enough, fair enough.
Now listen, you know I got tocommend you for taking the swing
.
You know a lot of people willprobably wonder, you know, if
they don't wind up doing it like.
You know what would have beenlike if I didn't give it a crack
.
So good on you for giving it atry.
And lunch I don't want to misslunch, I don't want to miss.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I for sure don't want to miss dinner, that's true.
I don't want to run that long.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Let's get into Broken Arrow.
So I got to ask you thequestion, especially having made
a Worlds team in the past.
I'm just out of curiosity whynot the Broken Arrow 46k this
year?
Why were you?
Why the 23k?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Man.
I asked myself that a bunch oftimes and I still do and I
honestly I think it comes backto that DNF and I was like I
just need to run shorter, like Ineed to like pull it back and
go somewhere I'm comfortable andjust like run hard.
And I was like I can for surerun hard for 13 miles.
I was like I don't know if Ican run hard for, you know, 26
(08:46):
miles right now.
So I think, unfortunately, Idid it from a place of not
trusting my racing, like, yeah,I look back I'm like, oh, it
would have been so fun to do itand it was the year to do it.
Right, there was no snow, itwasn't crazy, it was fast, it
was runnable, which is my jam.
But yeah, I was just not a goodmental space to run that
distance and I love the GoldenTrail Series and the whole
weekend out there, so fun.
(09:07):
So I didn't want to fully missout.
So I was like, okay, we'll justdo the 23k and go enjoy the
weekend and cheer everybody on.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
It's amazing.
It's crazy that we were in ayear where the 46k was almost as
like.
The 23k and 46k were both themost competitive races on the
day, same with the ascent.
It was all insanely competitive.
Usually, the 23k on the weekendis usually the most competitive
, which is wild, but this timearound it seemed like every
distance was just bananas withthe Golden Trail.
What did you take away from it?
(09:36):
Coming back to Golden Trail andracing, was it just as exciting
as it had been in previousyears?
What were the emotions like foryou as exciting as it had been
in previous years.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Like, what were the emotions like for you?
Yeah, um, it was exciting and Ilove seeing everybody there,
like all the fun and it's justsuch good energy.
But yeah, I was, I was kickingmyself for not doing the 46 K,
so a little bit of regret forsure, cause um I why I don't
want to run all day, I am alittle better, a little longer.
So it just kind of makes youwonder like, oh, what could I
(10:12):
have done?
But I will say flying down thatdirt road on fresh legs was
amazing, like you could justcook into that finish.
So that was, that was really agood ego boost for me, because
with my foot being all messed up, I was like maybe I just can't
run downhill anymore.
But I was like, oh no, yourlast K was like a 450.
Like you're fine, that's insane.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Oh man, so it had to have been a good feeling Top 15
result in such a stacked group.
It was an amazing group ofwomen that were out there
throwing down, yeah.
But what were your thoughts onthat?
Were you happy with the result?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
on.
Yeah, but what were yourthoughts on that?
Were you happy with the result?
No, you know it's well.
It's so hard to say because, nomatter how stacked the field is
like, to place outside the top10 is just kind of a hard pill
to swallow, even if you knowit's a good place, like.
My logical brain is like youdid well, you ran fast, like I
was trying to like really latchon to the positives but at the
end of the day, that like 14thplace is just kind of like well,
(11:03):
it's a big number.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
So still amazing, still amazing.
We're all hard, listen.
We're all hard on ourselves.
I get it.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I get it.
Well, we wouldn't be here if wewere satisfied with anything
other than like a podium forreal, Like you would just get
one and then be like all doneand move on.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
It's true, they keep coming back for for more.
Let's, let's get into pikes.
Let's talk pikes and BTMR.
You came out to BTMR,absolutely demolished that
course at an amazing day.
I got the dub um, obviouslyprobably a nice little tune up
for a race like pikes, peak, um,especially being on the same
trail and things like that.
How did BTMR feel for you?
Was that just a nice day out,like good workout?
(11:41):
How did you treat it Like?
Was it more race effort for youor or a workout?
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yeah, so it was a bit more of a workout for me.
So I didn't taper in.
Um, and I've got some goodfriends that I uh have a
friendly competition with andthey they specifically told me
they wanted to beat me.
So I was like, all right, well,it's going to be a really hard
workout then.
And so I went in and I feltpretty dead on the climb.
That was probably one of myworst climbs I've had in a long
time.
I got up probably a minute anda half or two slower and but I
(12:09):
felt great.
I just like wasn't snappybecause I wasn't tapered, and so
I just turned around andeverybody was so fun I just
remember saying hi to everyoneand just flying down and then
all of a sudden I was like onhydro and I was like, oh my gosh
, I think I just blanked outthat whole descent and I wasn't
able to actually get like a 30second PR.
So that's really good,considering how bad my climb was
(12:30):
.
So it was a big ego goose forme.
I was like, okay, like yourfueling is going well, like you
can still turn the legs over ifyou need to.
So it was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Whoa, so 30 second PR , especially for all the times
that you've ran on that trailtoo, like that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, oh.
So 30 seconds, like, probablynot like um.
I did get a few like crowns ifyou were looking at Sigma, um or
segments on Strava for me, butlike just overall 30 seconds.
So I don't know, because I feellike those big boulders are a
little cumbersome to get around.
You kind of have to slow downand make sure you're not going
to topple anybody over, becauseyou can't see past one of them
(13:07):
and the trail's open and I neverwant to be that person that
takes out a child or something.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's not good PR, Especially for you.
Multiple-time champion takesout kid Not a good headline.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, oh, my Only.
Their mom would be screaming atme and I'd be crying.
It would be a hot mess.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Oh God, all right.
Last year you missed this race.
You didn't come out to racejust because Golden Trail and
Mammoth.
Last year it was a busy summer.
This year you're obviouslycoming back.
I can ask you about this Wereyou happy to miss it last year,
especially given the fact thatit was shortened?
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Do you know what?
The fact that it was shortenedmade it easier to swallow, that
I missed it, but it would havebeen like a slightly longer bar
trail mountain race, which I dolove too.
So I guess once you sign up forsomething, you just have to be
willing to accept whatever thatrace presents itself on that day
Like.
Is it going to be 98 degrees,you know?
(14:03):
Are you going to get stung inthe face by a bee?
Is it going to get shortened?
Is it going to snow?
So it's all part of the game.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Have you looked at forecasts for this year at all?
I haven't.
I haven't checked anything LikeI know we're still a little far
out, but I'm just so curious asto what, like.
I hope it's just a beautifulday in the mountains for you
guys.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, honestly, I would pick a little snow over
like 90.
It's easier to fuel.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's true.
The only thing is is it's likeI wonder with the from a risk
profile perspective if it doessnow a little bit, if they let,
like it's one thing for theascent, but if for the marathon,
if they would let people upthere like I don't know if they
would be willing to do it.
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
You're running down.
Well, there was a little bit ofsnow in 2023.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, you're right, you're right there was.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
And I was super worried.
So I wore really like shoes Iwasn't super comfortable in, but
they had better grip and myfeet were on fire by the end.
I will not do that again.
I'm just gonna wear my normalshoes, because it wasn't that
slippery up there.
I knew better.
I was just like psyched myselfout.
But yeah, that last mile had acouple stretches of decent snow
accumulation.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Wow.
So with that, though, whatshoes were you wearing for this
year, or what would you?
What are you going to go forfrom a shoe selection?
Wise?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I'll probably do the Solomon Pulsar Pros.
I have one pair left.
I bought a ton before they kindof stopped making them and I'm
on my last pair, so I don't knowwhat I'm going to do after this
.
This might be their last race.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I'm on the market, oh man, If there's a Solomon rep
listening to this guys.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Please help.
I'm on one.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So this would be I mean, I got asked the question
like this would be your fourthwin.
What would that mean to you towin this race again?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Oh, it would be so cool.
Um, it's just I don't know.
I feel like you got to defendyour home turf a little bit and
there's so many fast women inColorado Springs, so I'm sure it
would stay here, I guess, causethere's not a big international
um competition fieldcompetition field that I know of
.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yet yet.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah.
So it would just mean a lot,and I don't know, I like to make
arbitrary marks and it wouldmaybe be cool to get five wins
or something like that, and thenI could be like all right,
that's enough.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I mean it's kind of cool, though, Like you think
about it.
I haven't had this conversationwith John yet either, but it's
kind of neat, cause, like you'dbe going for four, is he?
Would he be going for four orfive?
I think he'd be going for fouras well, which is kind of crazy.
Like you guys are up there,like that's history in the race
you know.
Like you're up there in thediscussions then with you know
your Mac carpenters of the worldand your Joes and people that
(16:37):
have you know your Joes andpeople that have you know set
records and done amazing things.
Like you know, in the race inits own right, is that a little
weird, like when you, when youthink about your name being like
synonymous with that race, likeit's kind of a crazy thing to
be wrapped up in the history ofit.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Yeah, oh.
I just feel like I couldn'teven start to put my name in the
same category as Matt Carpenter, hasn't?
He won it like 10 times.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I have no idea.
I should know this, butespecially because I want to
interview him one day.
I should know.
Obviously, I think it mighteven be more than that.
It's crazy.
He's so insane, yeah, but thinkabout it.
I mean in the sense where anyperson that's won more than
three times, I think it's aconversation, Even if you've won
in the three-time range.
It's a conversation whereyou're a multiple time winner of
(17:21):
the race.
You know, you get into thatconversation of, you know the
greats and people that haveraced this race, which is kind
of cool.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Oh, thanks, it was funny.
I was running broken arrow orbreakneck point when it was the
qualifier for worlds and Iwasn't really mentioned except
for in this little blurb at thebottom of this, like right up,
and it was like and thenchristina mascarina, she's a
little bit of a backyard bettybut she's won a few things and
so every time I win pike speak,I'm like, well, I'm just
backyard betty out here,backyard, you know, only doing
(17:51):
my, my bread and butter racesthat's actually really funny.
I can't believe they said and so, yeah, every time I win it,
i'm'm kind of like yep, you knowyour regular backyard pity.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
On that, though.
Do you feel the pressure then?
Because Pikes Peak you do haveso dialed, it is your backyard
peak.
Do you feel not just thepressure to win a race like this
, but do you feel pressure toperform outside of Pikes Peak as
well?
Speaker 4 (18:25):
feel pressure on Pikes Week because I should be
able to nail it every time andeveryone's human and you have a
bad day.
But yeah, I feel like to losewould hurt the most because I
don't really mind if I gave itmy all and not placing at any
other race, but I feel like itwould sting, particularly for
this one.
But I don't think anybodyexpects anything of me outside
of this race, which is kind ofnice, so I think everyone just
(18:47):
assumes I only can run straightup and straight down which they
might Right.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Listen, I either way you're, you're an all time great
and it's just amazing.
It's a, it's an honor Like Ican't.
Hopefully, next year we'll betalking about the fifth one, so
it's going to be be.
It's gonna be crazy where we'reat um christina.
I appreciate it so much.
Thanks for coming on.
This is an amazing conversationand wishing you the best of
luck in your uh pursuit of thefourth pikes peak marathon win
(19:14):
awesome.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Thank you so much for having me and thanks for all of
your fun podcasts.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I really enjoyed listening to everybody that
you're interviewing, so keep itup oh, thanks, appreciate, hey,
before I let you go, I have onequestion for you, and we can cut
this out, if not.
I just this is something I'vebeen stewing on today because
Jolene tested positive.
I wanted to get your take,especially on from the golden
trails and, like I said, we cancut this out.
This is not doesn importanttime in our sport, like what are
(19:43):
your thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Man.
So I have so many mixedemotions on this.
I feel sad that we live in aworld where Jolene needs this
prize money so desperately tofeed her family and to make a
life for herself and that she'sin a position where almost that
you would do anything to makesure your kids are okay, and so
my heart bleeds for it.
But I don't know how to set upa system that doesn't reward
(20:07):
winning when it's a competition,and I'm glad that they're doing
testing.
I'm glad that she got caught.
I do think doping is morerampant than people want to talk
about, like if you go fromnowhere or placing in your age
group to winning and you're pastyour 30s, like I'm pretty
suspicious.
So yeah, I mean, and they cuther off cold turkey, right.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, she was dropped .
Speaker 4 (20:35):
But I mean there have been other athletes that didn't
get dropped, that have testedpositive, so I feel like there
needs to be a standard, so Iagree there yeah, it's, it's an
interesting place in the sport Ibut so this hit me near and
dear to.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I was thinking about it because, you're right, like
jolene was in a place where andthere's a lot to this like I've
had some conversations, uh, withathletes I won't talk about, uh
, like in regards to anti-dopingand just in regards to Kenyan
runners specifically, and Ithink there's a lot of
situations that people don'tunderstand with managers and
with coaches, and where you gotto remember like and not just
(21:15):
not you, but like just theaudience, but like man, like
people you know Kenyans, in alot of places is very poor and
when you have to provide foryour family, and where a lot of
times, you'll get into thesecoaching situations where or
managers or coaches will takeadvantage of you monetarily.
That's so common and it's for alot of Kenyan athletes,
unfortunately, and it puts youin a weird spot.
(21:37):
And then, when it comes to thedoping perspective, it's like
doped and we know, and like youtook it willing, like we, you
know, but at the same time, likeis is that your only way out?
Is your coach, you know,pushing that, because the coach
that got, um, her coach, thesame, uh, there was I forget his
name is robert something um whotested positive um at uh series
(21:59):
and all in 2022.
He was his coach as well, soit's like a super common thing
amongst the coaches.
So it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
it's wild yeah, the coach athlete dynamic is is the
tricky one.
I mean, you look at any highlevel sport, like all the
gymnastic stuff that came out,you know now all of this doping
stuff.
It's just the power dynamic isnot fair.
Yeah, they're so sad all theway around.
I feel bad for the athletesthat were cheated of their
(22:26):
podiums and of their money andmy heart goes out to I don't
know to so many people.
And then part of me is a littlebit mad.
I'm like, well, no wonder I get14th place.
I'm clean at work full time.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, no serious.
Well, that's the thing.
You're not the only person thatsays that, you know, and it
makes a lot of sense and I wouldbe angry too.
You know, it's a.
It's a weird position, it's aweird spot and I hope we can do
just as a community.
We can continue to either builda framework for more
anti-doping or do something,maybe an out-of-season testing
pool that we can figure out.
But yeah, I appreciate yourperspective.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I was just so curious , just because it happened to
come out today and we justhappened to be chatting and I
was like curious to see whatyour thoughts were.
So oh yeah, definitely it hasbeen a hot topic today.
I mean, I've gotten it sent tome by like three or four people
and I've sent it to a few people, and so I've been talking about
it since I found out as well,and I mean I think we do need to
continue talking about itbecause it's obviously a big
issue.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, definitely, definitely Well, christina,
thank you so much.
Have a wonderful evening, happyanniversary and uh you know
we'll be in touch.
Good luck, and uh hope to chatwith you after Pikes Peak.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Awesome.
Yeah, hope to see you there.
Crush your uh Cirque series inSeattle.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Thank you, appreciate you, take care.
Bye, thank you.
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