September 23, 2025 • 29 mins
What happens when you suddenly find yourself among the world's elite athletes? Mason Coppi, who has exploded onto the sub-ultra mountain running scene with remarkable success, joins us for a candid conversation about his journey to the top and upcoming World Championships appearance.
Despite dominating races and earning his place among the sport's best, Mason reveals his ongoing battle with imposter syndrome. "I would feel uncomfortable putting my name in that conversation," he admits, even as his results speak volumes. Yet he's found a powerful antidote in staying present during competition – deliberately pausing during races to absorb the scenery and experience the joy of the moment.
Having represented Team USA once before at Chiang Mai, Mason approaches this year's World Championships in Spain with fresh perspective. His first European trip represents not just a personal milestone but an opportunity to be part of something bigger. The camaraderie within Team USA has transformed his approach, creating what he describes as a true team environment he hasn't experienced since college. Through pre-championship training camps and races, these elite individuals have formed a cohesive unit ready to challenge the world's best.
As preparation for the technically demanding world championship course continues, Mason shares his philosophy of maintaining successful training approaches rather than making dramatic changes. His balanced perspective extends to his championship expectations – acknowledging the exceptional difficulty while maintaining confidence in his abilities. Most compelling is his vision for what a team medal might mean: "This is an opportunity to really show what we're capable of" and potentially rewrite the narrative around American mountain running on the global stage.
Listen now to this inspiring conversation about athletic excellence, team dynamics, and finding joy in the journey to the top. Follow Mason and Team USA as they take on the world's best mountain runners and represent American trail running on the global stage!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:00):
We are live.
Mason Copey.
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, man?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hello, thank you so much for having me back on.
I'm excited to be here.
Things have been going reallywell for me recently.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Dude, it's been so much fun to get to witness some
of your performances and get tochat with you and spend time
with you.
It's been fun to follow alongman it's with you and spend time
with you.
And it's been fun to followalong man it's um, it's been
just an amazing year for you,like you have truly become and I
don't say this lately likeyou've become one of the best
like sub ultra mountain runnerson the planet, which is so cool
to say that I know you kind ofcool.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Uh, that's kind of crazy to think about.
Um, it has been a wild, um, awild season.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm super happywith, like, what I've been able
to accomplish, and it stilldoesn't quite seem real, like to
an extent, like, of course, Iput a lot of work, um into this
and like getting to this point,but it's still kind of odd.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Do you have imposter syndrome at all, like I know?
Like last year you won, you wona few races, like it was.
You won.
Obviously you know circuit orwhat was it, um circ alta and a
few others, but like this year,like when you shoot you, you
haven't really missed much.
How does that like?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
you have imposter syndrome, now that you're like,
I think it would make me veryuncomfortable to say I'm one of
the best in the world and evenlike to like articulate that and
to like mention that.
And if you were to bring upother like really good, um,
really good world leadingathletes, I I would feel
(02:50):
uncomfortable putting my name inthat conversation, even though
I may like, based off my results, not be too far off, um, so if
that is kind of weird, I do feellike when racing, though, my
confidence is in a really goodspot, um, and I think it's very
(03:13):
like when I'm in a race, I knowwhat I'm capable of doing, and
then the imposter syndrome kindof bleeds away a little bit to a
certain extent, because I knowwhere my fitness is at, I know
what I'm capable of, and thenI'm a little less concerned
about lack of confidence.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I mean, it's not just me who has said it.
David Roche was very public andput that on his story and I was
really happy about that givingyou your flowers, because I
think you should get all therecognition in the world for all
your hard work.
I just find that to be soamazing.
I do have to add one thing,because this is a question I've
had for you.
I've been stewing on this for awhile.
It's something I've beenthinking about a lot, because I
(03:54):
don't just pertain this torunning.
I think about this inpodcasting.
I think about this in life whenyou get so good at something
and put so much hard work intosomething and you're starting to
see, you know, like the results, that you've truly actually
mastered something, or likeyou're close to it in some way,
shape or form, like does thatever cross your mind or do you
(04:19):
take great pride in that?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I take a lot of pride and like how, how far I've come
, and like what I've been, whatI've been able to accomplish,
and so, uh, david's actually mycoach and I've been working with
him for a couple of years andlike one of the things that has
been really impactful for methis year, um, that David said
(04:42):
to me before Sunby, before theschamps back in june, was
something like something to theeffect of really enjoy this
period of time.
Uh, because it's kind of aunique period of where things
are like I'm kind of ratchetingmy way up through kind of the
(05:03):
ranks, so to say, um, and it'snot really going to be something
I ever really get to likeexperience again, probably, Um,
cause it's I'm kind of in thissweet spot of there's not a lot
of expectations for me, um, butalso like things are going
really well, and so I've beentrying to stay really present,
(05:25):
enjoying the process andenjoying that and enjoying where
I am at the moment.
Going back to the impostersyndrome there's always going to
be that nagging thing in theback of my head that says, oh, I
could be better at this.
Oh, I could be better at that,or oh, I could be doing this or
I could be as fast as thatperson, and that's that's always
(05:48):
been like the back of my headand, um, one of the things I've
really been trying to like workon this year is like be happy in
the and content in the presentmoment.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
So if you actually stopped yourself, then maybe
when you're standing on a on apodium, or maybe as you're
cresting a final descent, liketo to break the tape, like do
you tell yourself, like, takethis in Cause, like this is a
really special moment in my life.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, no, definitely, like I I tell myself that
before the uh, before the race,during the race, and like on the
podium, just trying to tryingto enjoy it.
Because, again, like I knowthat this, this exact moment is
is unique and not something thatI'm going to be able to, to
(06:36):
experience forever, um, and soI'm trying to trying to enjoy
that, and I try to enjoy that inevery race.
Anyways, like I do try to and Iencourage um other people to do
this as well like when you'rein the race, like stop, take a
moment, to just like experiencethe joy of the event, um, and
(06:57):
like take, take a break, lookaround, see the scenery, like
you can like stop, take a breath, and and all that.
And so that's something that II tried to do I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, you're gonna get a second shot at worlds man,
and I feel like this is, uh, anopportunity and one of those
ones where you're gonna get liketime to take it in and get to
feel like, okay, like I'm, I'mback, I get to do this again.
How does that feel?
What did you learn from ChiangMai that you can take into this?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, so I think in Chiang Mai I ended up getting on
the team because someone endedup dropping their spot Eli
Hemming ended up dropping hisspot and so I was bumped in.
But this happened very lastminute.
So I was like, going to ChiangMai to represent the US, like I
(07:51):
had like a month in advance ofknowing that I was going.
So it was super last minute Iwasn't able to plan out the trip
, I wasn't able to get to knowany of the team members that I
was going with beforehand, andso it just all felt very rushed
and I was, of course, veryexcited to be going there.
But I think there was thisgeneral feeling of feeling
(08:17):
overwhelmed about like just kindof being thrust into this, um,
thrust into this space, and Iwas also dealing with a bit of a
bit of an injury leading upinto the uh, uh race, and so it
was kind of this this awkward,awkward experience.
I still had a ton of fun, stillreally enjoyed it.
Awkward experience.
(08:37):
I still had a ton of fun, stillreally enjoyed it.
But I think I came out of thattrip feeling like I was lacking
a couple of things.
One was like being present inthe moment and enjoying it.
I think I was so concernedabout just the performance of
the actual race I wasn't reallythinking about enjoying my, my
time in a new country, um,meeting new people, um from the
(09:00):
team USA and all of that, andthat's something that is really
cool about this, this trip andgetting to do it again.
So, um, one really excited toum explore Spain and see Spain.
I've never, I've never beenthere Spain, I've never been
there before, I've never been toEurope before.
So that's really exciting.
Oh really, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay, so this will be my first time in Europe, so I'm
really excited for that andjust to experience that, I'm
getting out there a little bitearly.
I'm going to fly out on Sunday,so I'll have a bit of extra time
to just kind of explore um andget to know the area and enjoy
all that.
The other big thing that, likeI'm really excited about this
(09:44):
race is I've actually gotten itan opportunity to meet other
people from team USA.
So we actually had a uh teamUSA training camp for the uh
mountain team or the sub ultra,like mountain and vertical team,
and pretty much everyone fromfrom those teams showed up and
(10:05):
it was just so fun.
Like all those people are justamazing and it was so cool to
like meet them and get to knowthem, meet them and get to know
them and like really feel like Iwas joining a team, like we all
actually have a teamenvironment, because now we've
bumped into each other at otherraces and we feel like team
(10:28):
members, which isn't somethingI've gotten to experience since,
like college.
So that's super exciting and soI think the thing that I'm
really taking into this world,compared to the last worlds I
went to, is just like enjoyingthe overall experience and kind
of being in the moment for that.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I love it.
I love it.
So I was.
I was supposed to be there tointerview you guys.
I was going to go to BV to talkto you guys and hang out, but I
had scheduling conflicts anddidn't get a chance to do it.
But that said, dude, it wouldhave been cool to be the only
non-USA member that I could hangout with you guys.
It would have been fun.
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
How has the dynamic worked withDavid Norris yourself, cam and
(11:15):
Taylor To me, outside ofrisyourself?
Uh, cam and Taylor, like thisis, I mean to me outside of the
women's classic team, like we'resending a squad dude, like the,
the, the euros are put onnotice.
Like this is going to be adirty team, so excited to see
you guys compete.
I, it seems like cam, and Idon't know if I just from
viewing the dynamic from outside, cam has a ton of experience
(11:37):
with um, with schema right, sothere's a lot of leadership
there that I feel like he cankind of bring to the team,
knowing how a lot of these teamswork, knowing what it's like to
compete on an internationallevel and kind of bringing that
to you guys.
Has that been the dynamic islike?
Has that helped a lot?
Or like how?
How has the dynamic workedbetween you guys?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh, a hundred percent .
I think you're like, you reallyhave a good idea of the dynamic
.
So Cam was actually the one whoset up the entire camp.
That was all Cam organizing andall through the job of like
keeping the team connected,getting excited.
(12:19):
I, um, I saw him at Cirqueseries Alta and just his support
of of me there and like, again,we were talking about um, about
worlds and getting excitedabout that, about worlds and
getting excited about that.
Another great like cam story ison the line.
(12:40):
At, uh, broken arrow, the 23 K,he grabbed both me and Taylor.
I was like, hey, this is thisis our debut as team USA.
Um, this is this is ouropportunity to show, like what
we have and like let's reallypack up and and crush this thing
(13:01):
.
And if anyone remembers likethe results, we did end up
finishing right next to eachother.
So it's taylor, cam, then me,and for a lot of the race we
were running together and so ithas been this very big team
dynamic and like, yeah, on thestarting line of Broken Arrow,
when Cam said that to me, I waslike, heck, yeah, absolutely,
(13:21):
we're a team, we're going tolike go through this together
and like, throughout the race,we were pushing each other and
it never felt like it's beencool, because it hasn't felt
like this, like rivalry in termsof like, like a usual
competitive rivalry, right, likein a usual competitive rivalry,
(13:44):
like you're just wanting tobeat the other person, that's
all you want to do, um, you wantthem to do well, you're like,
but you, you just want to beatthem for the most part, and this
one, it's like gosh.
I kind of hope they go with mewhen I make this move and I kind
of hope, like they follow and Ihope they respond, um, and
(14:04):
that's just.
Again, it's been something Ihaven't experienced in in such a
long time and it's been reallyfun to experience again.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So cool.
Oh man, I I'm like I said, Ifeel like we're sending the
dream team between, uh, all theteams that we're sending.
It's going to be, it's going tobe amazing.
Um, I haven't asked him this.
I'm going to have him on thenext few days.
What um and same, pretty muchthe.
I'm going to have the wholeteam on, but like, what, uh,
what is expectation?
Like?
How do you define expectationsgoing into a race like this?
(14:34):
Is it, I know, for you, likeyou have, like I feel like you
guys all have definitelysomething to prove, but I think
for you, stepping in thatprofessional arena, where you
absolutely deserve to be, isthat something that weighing on
you, like what, like, what isyour expectation for this race?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
that's a good question.
To be honest, I'm not thinkingtoo much about proving myself.
I, of course, want to have agood race, but with the past
season that I've had, I don'tfeel I have all that much, all
(15:14):
that much to prove, and I alsofeel that the main thing I just
need to focus on is myself andmy, my own running abilities,
and running to my best of myability, I think, will lead to a
good result.
Um, in terms of expectations, Ithink it's going to be really
(15:35):
hard.
Like that's the thing like I'mexpecting is just like I'm
entering an arena with like somany good runners and it's
something that I don't get toexperience.
Like it's something you don'tget to experience almost ever,
because it's the worldchampionships right, like all
the best from all the countriesare going to be there.
(15:56):
It's the world championshipsright, like all the best from
all the countries are going tobe there and it's going to.
I'm probably, at some point inthe race, going to be further
back than what I'm used to andit's going to be chaotic.
There's going to be people thatI can't just like drop and
can't just like pull, pull, moveon, cause in the, the races
that I I typically go to, ofcourse, there's some great
(16:17):
runners there where maybe havinglike a field of like 20 runners
who are really good, but nowwe're talking about a field of
like almost 100 runners who areall amazing and like all like
super intense and like are goingto be very difficult for me to
(16:39):
be.
So I think that's going to bean interesting thing to
experience and, um, so yeah, Ithink my expectations are just
that it's going to be hard.
Um, as simple as as simple asthat is.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I love it.
I love it, I mean, I like, Ithink that's it's.
It's a good approach, justbecause it's like if you were to
have sat here and be like James, I'm good, I'm here to win this
race.
Of course you're going there tobe competitive and you want to
win and you want to do well, butgoing in, I feel like, with
your mindset, is just a muchhealthier space.
It allows you that freedom,that like, if you're having a
good race, to give yourself thatopportunity, to put yourself,
(17:15):
stick your nose in it and, youknow, do the best you possibly
can, whereas if you findyourself early where you're not
in the position you want to be,then you're beating yourself up
and you don't want to be in thatposition, right Like.
I think there's definitely somemental, some mental stuff there
that I think is very positive.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
So oh yeah, no, absolutely, it's actually kind
of interesting.
So this is something that Inoticed in college with a lot of
runners.
So I went to high school inCalifornia was a part of a very
competitive area of the stateand my team was also a very
(17:53):
competitive team.
So I very rarely won races andI very rarely was in the front
of races.
I actually had a guy on theteam who used to beat me a lot
and even like at state races Iwas used to being a little bit
further back and then when I gotto college, of course I was
(18:13):
further back as well, being likeNCAA D one because there are so
many good runners there.
But it kind of felt normal to me, like it was like oh, I'm kind
of used to this, but I noticed alot of runners who maybe came
from less, less competitiveareas of the country who are
used to always kind of being infront and kind of running away
(18:33):
with it.
Kind of struggle in thatenvironment because it's like
wait, what's going on?
I'm in 40th place and it's like, well, 40th place is actually
pretty good here, but they'relike I don't know, and so that
is something that I'm trying tokeep in mind heading into worlds
(18:54):
.
And it is a balance, because Iwant to have the confidence to
say that I can be up towards thefront, but I also know that
being up towards the front isgoing to be a very hard thing
and it's all about finding thatbalance of knowing that
something's going to bedifficult but also finding that
confidence that you can handlethat difficulty.
I think it's a great.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
That's a really I don't know that's a good way to
put it.
Man, I want to shift gears alittle bit and with the time we
have, I do want to get into thecourse and talk a little bit
about that.
I know you you're obviously notthere yet so you kind of, in
the ways you have been able tokind of learn more about the
course and from the people thathave been on it or training on
it now and yada, yada, yada.
It's supposed to be verytechnical and it's supposed to
(19:36):
be just different.
Right, I've obviously learnedyour Strava and it seems like
you were doing similar stuff asto what you were doing in the
lead up to Sunapee, which wasalso extremely technical race,
but in a different way.
There's also an extremelytechnical race, but in a
different way.
Have you tweaked anything totry like, without I don't know,
trying to get prepared for someof that more technical stuff?
Obviously, a lot of the racesthat you've done, like a lot of
(20:03):
the Cirque series stuff, hastechnical components to it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
But it's also very runnable.
What has been your take on likepreparing for this technicality
?
Yeah, so kind of my generaltake and approach in this build
in general is to not tweakthings too much.
I think training has been goingreally well for me and the lead
(20:26):
up to SunP went really well.
A lot within that thatframework of of training, and I
think there's always thistemptation when you're like
leveling up to a different levelof competition, you should
rewrite the game and do thingscompletely different.
In my opinion, I see that notworking out as well, um, for
athletes.
(20:47):
Um, it's, I think, like youdon't want to toss out what's
been working for you.
Like there may come a time whenI need to like reanalyze and
re-approach things, um, butsince things have been going
well, I've kind of been kind ofbeen sticking with that.
I have been thinking about thetechnicality in terms of like
(21:09):
doing the Cirque series racesagain, like they're not going to
be super technical all the timein those races, but they have
these like pulses of supertechnical sections where I
really like kind of hone myability to like run on those
technical components and justkind of pulsing it in here and
(21:29):
there, and then I thinktechnicality will be an element
of this course.
Like, of course, like technicalproficiency is going to be
important, but I also think,like a very important thing is
just going to be overall fitnessand speed.
Um, like, I think that'sprobably going to be the number
(21:50):
one determinant of like how youperform Um.
So that's kind of just beenwhat I've been sticking with and
like getting better at that Um,so focusing on that and then
working on more what I wouldconsider the small elements,
like technical ability, uh, alittle bit less.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Interesting.
Now, dude, you make such a goodpoint there, especially for the
mountain classics and VKs.
At the end of the day, yeah,technical proficiency is
important, but it's the fittestperson generally in a short race
like this.
I think that's probably goingto do the best, more or less.
If you have a ginormous engineand you're able to move better
than everybody else, then aslong as you don't roll your
(22:30):
ankle, you're in, you're, you're, you're probably going to be
all right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You know, yeah, no, absolutely.
And another point with this toois like a lot of um, like that
technical proficiency, a lot ofthat comes down to like
neuromuscular adaptations um,which can be trained with like
less stimulus, like you needsemi-frequent stimulus but you
don't need to be doing itconstantly.
(22:54):
So a few stimuli here and thereum will get you pretty far.
So it hasn't been somethingthat I've been focusing on like
getting in constantly, like I'llI'll get some long runs in.
Again I have, or I'll get, somelong runs in over technical
sections and again I've beengetting in um the Cirque series
races over over technical stuff,here and there Um.
(23:15):
But other than that I've beenkeeping it, keeping it smooth
Like I usually do.
I'm still doing basically allmy workouts on the track and and
all that I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Um.
One more thing training relatedkind of blends in with Sunapee.
Um, that was a two loopedcourse.
Did you do anything particular,like special in the lead up to
that to prepare, like for that Idon't know for the kind of the
muscular uh pounding of up down,up down, like in two loops, um,
and did you apply that?
(23:44):
I would assume you applied thesame thing for this as well you
applied the same thing for thisas well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So I think with that is like, basically the thing to
practice is like a hard downhillfollowed by, uh, another like
uphill and a climb, again likethe cirque.
Series races weren'tnecessarily 100 perfect for that
, um, but a lot of them do haveuphills.
Um, after a steep downhill, um,that you still kind of have to
pick up and then, um, also onething that I've been doing is,
(24:19):
after the series races, I'llusually get a lengthier cool
down in back up the mountain, umyeah, after targi I was like
what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
like you just ran like 2000 more feet after.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Like I was like man, all right, all right.
So the idea there is uh, ofcourse, in the Cirque series
races I'm sprinting down thosedownhills towards the finish, so
I'm, I'm blasting my legs justlike I'll be doing in this race,
and then um, for a cool down,cause I want to get a little bit
more volume on those Cirqueseries days, to kind of make it
equivalent to a long run Um,I'll just run back up the
(24:53):
mountain, um, on tired, fatiguedlegs.
Add an easier effort.
So everyone's clear, like, I'mnot like magical and can just
belt up another hill, repeatafter a race.
I just add an easier effortagain.
Just get the legs used toclimbing again after, after
bombing a descent, um, and sothat's kind of the, the strategy
(25:14):
I've been implementing here.
Some of the.
I actually wasn't able to doall that much because it was so
like snowy and stuff, um, andjust wasn't able to like I
didn't have any trail racesleading up to it, um, and so
I've actually gotten a littlebit more here, this like now.
So I guess that would be onething I've changed in training.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Interesting, very, very cool.
All right, last question whatwould it mean to you with this
team to metal?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Oh gosh, I think I think the past like couple,
couple worlds, the the Americanlike classic men's team hasn't
hasn't really like gotten on thepodium or performed to the best
(26:06):
of what I think we're able to,and so I see it as like an
opportunity to like really likeestablish or like reestablish
the sub ultra US men as reallygood performers.
And I think this space is reallydominated a lot by other
(26:30):
countries and countries outsidethe US and the US isn't
necessarily looked to as adominant force in the sub-ultra
space.
Like this, like this re-arrivalof um us sub ultra running, and
(26:56):
really putting the the wholesub ultra scene in the us on the
map, um, not just like, notjust like internationally, but
in the us as well.
I'm hoping it would give uslike a little bit more street
cred, because I feel like we'rekind of the the little brothers
of the trail running world andum, all right, all right, this
(27:16):
isn't my opinion.
This is how I feel we aretreated in the media and in just
the overall talking of of trailrunning.
I don't think that's true.
Course, I really like sub-ultrarunning because that's what I
do and that's why I think it'scool, but I think this is an
opportunity to really show whatwe're capable of.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, no, I think you're right.
I think this is an opportunityto rewrite the entire narrative
and I think that from the mediathat I've consumed pre race, at
least internationally not thatthere's a ton out there yet, but
I don't think people reallyrealize the squad that we're
sending, dude, like, that's all.
I don't think they get it, butthey're going to, they're going
(28:04):
to find out.
So you know what?
Mason?
Uh, wish you the best of luck.
I hope you have the day youabsolutely deserve out there in
an amazing race, and I hope it'sa special day for you.
Um, and yeah, man, hopefullywe'll get to.
Well, definitely we'll catch upafter, so we'll be in touch,
man.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
All right, sounds great.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, mason.
Thank you, we'll see you nexttime.
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:00):
We are live.
Mason Copey.
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, man?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hello, thank you so much for having me back on.
I'm excited to be here.
Things have been going reallywell for me recently.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Dude, it's been so much fun to get to witness some
of your performances and get tochat with you and spend time
with you.
It's been fun to follow alongman it's with you and spend time
with you.
And it's been fun to followalong man it's um, it's been
just an amazing year for you,like you have truly become and I
don't say this lately likeyou've become one of the best
like sub ultra mountain runnerson the planet, which is so cool
to say that I know you kind ofcool.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Uh, that's kind of crazy to think about.
Um, it has been a wild, um, awild season.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm super happywith, like, what I've been able
to accomplish, and it stilldoesn't quite seem real, like to
an extent, like, of course, Iput a lot of work, um into this
and like getting to this point,but it's still kind of odd.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Do you have imposter syndrome at all, like I know?
Like last year you won, you wona few races, like it was.
You won.
Obviously you know circuit orwhat was it, um circ alta and a
few others, but like this year,like when you shoot you, you
haven't really missed much.
How does that like?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
you have imposter syndrome, now that you're like,
I think it would make me veryuncomfortable to say I'm one of
the best in the world and evenlike to like articulate that and
to like mention that.
And if you were to bring upother like really good, um,
really good world leadingathletes, I I would feel
(02:50):
uncomfortable putting my name inthat conversation, even though
I may like, based off my results, not be too far off, um, so if
that is kind of weird, I do feellike when racing, though, my
confidence is in a really goodspot, um, and I think it's very
(03:13):
like when I'm in a race, I knowwhat I'm capable of doing, and
then the imposter syndrome kindof bleeds away a little bit to a
certain extent, because I knowwhere my fitness is at, I know
what I'm capable of, and thenI'm a little less concerned
about lack of confidence.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I mean, it's not just me who has said it.
David Roche was very public andput that on his story and I was
really happy about that givingyou your flowers, because I
think you should get all therecognition in the world for all
your hard work.
I just find that to be soamazing.
I do have to add one thing,because this is a question I've
had for you.
I've been stewing on this for awhile.
It's something I've beenthinking about a lot, because I
(03:54):
don't just pertain this torunning.
I think about this inpodcasting.
I think about this in life whenyou get so good at something
and put so much hard work intosomething and you're starting to
see, you know, like the results, that you've truly actually
mastered something, or likeyou're close to it in some way,
shape or form, like does thatever cross your mind or do you
(04:19):
take great pride in that?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I take a lot of pride and like how, how far I've come
, and like what I've been, whatI've been able to accomplish,
and so, uh, david's actually mycoach and I've been working with
him for a couple of years andlike one of the things that has
been really impactful for methis year, um, that David said
(04:42):
to me before Sunby, before theschamps back in june, was
something like something to theeffect of really enjoy this
period of time.
Uh, because it's kind of aunique period of where things
are like I'm kind of ratchetingmy way up through kind of the
(05:03):
ranks, so to say, um, and it'snot really going to be something
I ever really get to likeexperience again, probably, Um,
cause it's I'm kind of in thissweet spot of there's not a lot
of expectations for me, um, butalso like things are going
really well, and so I've beentrying to stay really present,
(05:25):
enjoying the process andenjoying that and enjoying where
I am at the moment.
Going back to the impostersyndrome there's always going to
be that nagging thing in theback of my head that says, oh, I
could be better at this.
Oh, I could be better at that,or oh, I could be doing this or
I could be as fast as thatperson, and that's that's always
(05:48):
been like the back of my headand, um, one of the things I've
really been trying to like workon this year is like be happy in
the and content in the presentmoment.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
So if you actually stopped yourself, then maybe
when you're standing on a on apodium, or maybe as you're
cresting a final descent, liketo to break the tape, like do
you tell yourself, like, takethis in Cause, like this is a
really special moment in my life.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, no, definitely, like I I tell myself that
before the uh, before the race,during the race, and like on the
podium, just trying to tryingto enjoy it.
Because, again, like I knowthat this, this exact moment is
is unique and not something thatI'm going to be able to, to
(06:36):
experience forever, um, and soI'm trying to trying to enjoy
that, and I try to enjoy that inevery race.
Anyways, like I do try to and Iencourage um other people to do
this as well like when you'rein the race, like stop, take a
moment, to just like experiencethe joy of the event, um, and
(06:57):
like take, take a break, lookaround, see the scenery, like
you can like stop, take a breath, and and all that.
And so that's something that II tried to do I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, you're gonna get a second shot at worlds man,
and I feel like this is, uh, anopportunity and one of those
ones where you're gonna get liketime to take it in and get to
feel like, okay, like I'm, I'mback, I get to do this again.
How does that feel?
What did you learn from ChiangMai that you can take into this?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, so I think in Chiang Mai I ended up getting on
the team because someone endedup dropping their spot Eli
Hemming ended up dropping hisspot and so I was bumped in.
But this happened very lastminute.
So I was like, going to ChiangMai to represent the US, like I
(07:51):
had like a month in advance ofknowing that I was going.
So it was super last minute Iwasn't able to plan out the trip
, I wasn't able to get to knowany of the team members that I
was going with beforehand, andso it just all felt very rushed
and I was, of course, veryexcited to be going there.
But I think there was thisgeneral feeling of feeling
(08:17):
overwhelmed about like just kindof being thrust into this, um,
thrust into this space, and Iwas also dealing with a bit of a
bit of an injury leading upinto the uh, uh race, and so it
was kind of this this awkward,awkward experience.
I still had a ton of fun, stillreally enjoyed it.
Awkward experience.
(08:37):
I still had a ton of fun, stillreally enjoyed it.
But I think I came out of thattrip feeling like I was lacking
a couple of things.
One was like being present inthe moment and enjoying it.
I think I was so concernedabout just the performance of
the actual race I wasn't reallythinking about enjoying my, my
time in a new country, um,meeting new people, um from the
(09:00):
team USA and all of that, andthat's something that is really
cool about this, this trip andgetting to do it again.
So, um, one really excited toum explore Spain and see Spain.
I've never, I've never beenthere Spain, I've never been
there before, I've never been toEurope before.
So that's really exciting.
Oh really, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay, so this will be my first time in Europe, so I'm
really excited for that andjust to experience that, I'm
getting out there a little bitearly.
I'm going to fly out on Sunday,so I'll have a bit of extra time
to just kind of explore um andget to know the area and enjoy
all that.
The other big thing that, likeI'm really excited about this
(09:44):
race is I've actually gotten itan opportunity to meet other
people from team USA.
So we actually had a uh teamUSA training camp for the uh
mountain team or the sub ultra,like mountain and vertical team,
and pretty much everyone fromfrom those teams showed up and
(10:05):
it was just so fun.
Like all those people are justamazing and it was so cool to
like meet them and get to knowthem, meet them and get to know
them and like really feel like Iwas joining a team, like we all
actually have a teamenvironment, because now we've
bumped into each other at otherraces and we feel like team
(10:28):
members, which isn't somethingI've gotten to experience since,
like college.
So that's super exciting and soI think the thing that I'm
really taking into this world,compared to the last worlds I
went to, is just like enjoyingthe overall experience and kind
of being in the moment for that.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I love it.
I love it.
So I was.
I was supposed to be there tointerview you guys.
I was going to go to BV to talkto you guys and hang out, but I
had scheduling conflicts anddidn't get a chance to do it.
But that said, dude, it wouldhave been cool to be the only
non-USA member that I could hangout with you guys.
It would have been fun.
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
How has the dynamic worked withDavid Norris yourself, cam and
(11:15):
Taylor To me, outside ofrisyourself?
Uh, cam and Taylor, like thisis, I mean to me outside of the
women's classic team, like we'resending a squad dude, like the,
the, the euros are put onnotice.
Like this is going to be adirty team, so excited to see
you guys compete.
I, it seems like cam, and Idon't know if I just from
viewing the dynamic from outside, cam has a ton of experience
(11:37):
with um, with schema right, sothere's a lot of leadership
there that I feel like he cankind of bring to the team,
knowing how a lot of these teamswork, knowing what it's like to
compete on an internationallevel and kind of bringing that
to you guys.
Has that been the dynamic islike?
Has that helped a lot?
Or like how?
How has the dynamic workedbetween you guys?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh, a hundred percent .
I think you're like, you reallyhave a good idea of the dynamic
.
So Cam was actually the one whoset up the entire camp.
That was all Cam organizing andall through the job of like
keeping the team connected,getting excited.
(12:19):
I, um, I saw him at Cirqueseries Alta and just his support
of of me there and like, again,we were talking about um, about
worlds and getting excitedabout that, about worlds and
getting excited about that.
Another great like cam story ison the line.
(12:40):
At, uh, broken arrow, the 23 K,he grabbed both me and Taylor.
I was like, hey, this is thisis our debut as team USA.
Um, this is this is ouropportunity to show, like what
we have and like let's reallypack up and and crush this thing
(13:01):
.
And if anyone remembers likethe results, we did end up
finishing right next to eachother.
So it's taylor, cam, then me,and for a lot of the race we
were running together and so ithas been this very big team
dynamic and like, yeah, on thestarting line of Broken Arrow,
when Cam said that to me, I waslike, heck, yeah, absolutely,
(13:21):
we're a team, we're going tolike go through this together
and like, throughout the race,we were pushing each other and
it never felt like it's beencool, because it hasn't felt
like this, like rivalry in termsof like, like a usual
competitive rivalry, right, likein a usual competitive rivalry,
(13:44):
like you're just wanting tobeat the other person, that's
all you want to do, um, you wantthem to do well, you're like,
but you, you just want to beatthem for the most part, and this
one, it's like gosh.
I kind of hope they go with mewhen I make this move and I kind
of hope, like they follow and Ihope they respond, um, and
(14:04):
that's just.
Again, it's been something Ihaven't experienced in in such a
long time and it's been reallyfun to experience again.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So cool.
Oh man, I I'm like I said, Ifeel like we're sending the
dream team between, uh, all theteams that we're sending.
It's going to be, it's going tobe amazing.
Um, I haven't asked him this.
I'm going to have him on thenext few days.
What um and same, pretty muchthe.
I'm going to have the wholeteam on, but like, what, uh,
what is expectation?
Like?
How do you define expectationsgoing into a race like this?
(14:34):
Is it, I know, for you, likeyou have, like I feel like you
guys all have definitelysomething to prove, but I think
for you, stepping in thatprofessional arena, where you
absolutely deserve to be, isthat something that weighing on
you, like what, like, what isyour expectation for this race?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
that's a good question.
To be honest, I'm not thinkingtoo much about proving myself.
I, of course, want to have agood race, but with the past
season that I've had, I don'tfeel I have all that much, all
(15:14):
that much to prove, and I alsofeel that the main thing I just
need to focus on is myself andmy, my own running abilities,
and running to my best of myability, I think, will lead to a
good result.
Um, in terms of expectations, Ithink it's going to be really
(15:35):
hard.
Like that's the thing like I'mexpecting is just like I'm
entering an arena with like somany good runners and it's
something that I don't get toexperience.
Like it's something you don'tget to experience almost ever,
because it's the worldchampionships right, like all
the best from all the countriesare going to be there.
(15:56):
It's the world championshipsright, like all the best from
all the countries are going tobe there and it's going to.
I'm probably, at some point inthe race, going to be further
back than what I'm used to andit's going to be chaotic.
There's going to be people thatI can't just like drop and
can't just like pull, pull, moveon, cause in the, the races
that I I typically go to, ofcourse, there's some great
(16:17):
runners there where maybe havinglike a field of like 20 runners
who are really good, but nowwe're talking about a field of
like almost 100 runners who areall amazing and like all like
super intense and like are goingto be very difficult for me to
(16:39):
be.
So I think that's going to bean interesting thing to
experience and, um, so yeah, Ithink my expectations are just
that it's going to be hard.
Um, as simple as as simple asthat is.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I love it.
I love it, I mean, I like, Ithink that's it's.
It's a good approach, justbecause it's like if you were to
have sat here and be like James, I'm good, I'm here to win this
race.
Of course you're going there tobe competitive and you want to
win and you want to do well, butgoing in, I feel like, with
your mindset, is just a muchhealthier space.
It allows you that freedom,that like, if you're having a
good race, to give yourself thatopportunity, to put yourself,
(17:15):
stick your nose in it and, youknow, do the best you possibly
can, whereas if you findyourself early where you're not
in the position you want to be,then you're beating yourself up
and you don't want to be in thatposition, right Like.
I think there's definitely somemental, some mental stuff there
that I think is very positive.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
So oh yeah, no, absolutely, it's actually kind
of interesting.
So this is something that Inoticed in college with a lot of
runners.
So I went to high school inCalifornia was a part of a very
competitive area of the stateand my team was also a very
(17:53):
competitive team.
So I very rarely won races andI very rarely was in the front
of races.
I actually had a guy on theteam who used to beat me a lot
and even like at state races Iwas used to being a little bit
further back and then when I gotto college, of course I was
(18:13):
further back as well, being likeNCAA D one because there are so
many good runners there.
But it kind of felt normal to me, like it was like oh, I'm kind
of used to this, but I noticed alot of runners who maybe came
from less, less competitiveareas of the country who are
used to always kind of being infront and kind of running away
(18:33):
with it.
Kind of struggle in thatenvironment because it's like
wait, what's going on?
I'm in 40th place and it's like, well, 40th place is actually
pretty good here, but they'relike I don't know, and so that
is something that I'm trying tokeep in mind heading into worlds
(18:54):
.
And it is a balance, because Iwant to have the confidence to
say that I can be up towards thefront, but I also know that
being up towards the front isgoing to be a very hard thing
and it's all about finding thatbalance of knowing that
something's going to bedifficult but also finding that
confidence that you can handlethat difficulty.
I think it's a great.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
That's a really I don't know that's a good way to
put it.
Man, I want to shift gears alittle bit and with the time we
have, I do want to get into thecourse and talk a little bit
about that.
I know you you're obviously notthere yet so you kind of, in
the ways you have been able tokind of learn more about the
course and from the people thathave been on it or training on
it now and yada, yada, yada.
It's supposed to be verytechnical and it's supposed to
(19:36):
be just different.
Right, I've obviously learnedyour Strava and it seems like
you were doing similar stuff asto what you were doing in the
lead up to Sunapee, which wasalso extremely technical race,
but in a different way.
There's also an extremelytechnical race, but in a
different way.
Have you tweaked anything totry like, without I don't know,
trying to get prepared for someof that more technical stuff?
Obviously, a lot of the racesthat you've done, like a lot of
(20:03):
the Cirque series stuff, hastechnical components to it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
But it's also very runnable.
What has been your take on likepreparing for this technicality
?
Yeah, so kind of my generaltake and approach in this build
in general is to not tweakthings too much.
I think training has been goingreally well for me and the lead
(20:26):
up to SunP went really well.
A lot within that thatframework of of training, and I
think there's always thistemptation when you're like
leveling up to a different levelof competition, you should
rewrite the game and do thingscompletely different.
In my opinion, I see that notworking out as well, um, for
athletes.
(20:47):
Um, it's, I think, like youdon't want to toss out what's
been working for you.
Like there may come a time whenI need to like reanalyze and
re-approach things, um, butsince things have been going
well, I've kind of been kind ofbeen sticking with that.
I have been thinking about thetechnicality in terms of like
(21:09):
doing the Cirque series racesagain, like they're not going to
be super technical all the timein those races, but they have
these like pulses of supertechnical sections where I
really like kind of hone myability to like run on those
technical components and justkind of pulsing it in here and
(21:29):
there, and then I thinktechnicality will be an element
of this course.
Like, of course, like technicalproficiency is going to be
important, but I also think,like a very important thing is
just going to be overall fitnessand speed.
Um, like, I think that'sprobably going to be the number
(21:50):
one determinant of like how youperform Um.
So that's kind of just beenwhat I've been sticking with and
like getting better at that Um,so focusing on that and then
working on more what I wouldconsider the small elements,
like technical ability, uh, alittle bit less.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Interesting.
Now, dude, you make such a goodpoint there, especially for the
mountain classics and VKs.
At the end of the day, yeah,technical proficiency is
important, but it's the fittestperson generally in a short race
like this.
I think that's probably goingto do the best, more or less.
If you have a ginormous engineand you're able to move better
than everybody else, then aslong as you don't roll your
(22:30):
ankle, you're in, you're, you're, you're probably going to be
all right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You know, yeah, no, absolutely.
And another point with this toois like a lot of um, like that
technical proficiency, a lot ofthat comes down to like
neuromuscular adaptations um,which can be trained with like
less stimulus, like you needsemi-frequent stimulus but you
don't need to be doing itconstantly.
(22:54):
So a few stimuli here and thereum will get you pretty far.
So it hasn't been somethingthat I've been focusing on like
getting in constantly, like I'llI'll get some long runs in.
Again I have, or I'll get, somelong runs in over technical
sections and again I've beengetting in um the Cirque series
races over over technical stuff,here and there Um.
(23:15):
But other than that I've beenkeeping it, keeping it smooth
Like I usually do.
I'm still doing basically allmy workouts on the track and and
all that I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Um.
One more thing training relatedkind of blends in with Sunapee.
Um, that was a two loopedcourse.
Did you do anything particular,like special in the lead up to
that to prepare, like for that Idon't know for the kind of the
muscular uh pounding of up down,up down, like in two loops, um,
and did you apply that?
(23:44):
I would assume you applied thesame thing for this as well you
applied the same thing for thisas well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So I think with that is like, basically the thing to
practice is like a hard downhillfollowed by, uh, another like
uphill and a climb, again likethe cirque.
Series races weren'tnecessarily 100 perfect for that
, um, but a lot of them do haveuphills.
Um, after a steep downhill, um,that you still kind of have to
pick up and then, um, also onething that I've been doing is,
(24:19):
after the series races, I'llusually get a lengthier cool
down in back up the mountain, umyeah, after targi I was like
what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
like you just ran like 2000 more feet after.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Like I was like man, all right, all right.
So the idea there is uh, ofcourse, in the Cirque series
races I'm sprinting down thosedownhills towards the finish, so
I'm, I'm blasting my legs justlike I'll be doing in this race,
and then um, for a cool down,cause I want to get a little bit
more volume on those Cirqueseries days, to kind of make it
equivalent to a long run Um,I'll just run back up the
(24:53):
mountain, um, on tired, fatiguedlegs.
Add an easier effort.
So everyone's clear, like, I'mnot like magical and can just
belt up another hill, repeatafter a race.
I just add an easier effortagain.
Just get the legs used toclimbing again after, after
bombing a descent, um, and sothat's kind of the, the strategy
(25:14):
I've been implementing here.
Some of the.
I actually wasn't able to doall that much because it was so
like snowy and stuff, um, andjust wasn't able to like I
didn't have any trail racesleading up to it, um, and so
I've actually gotten a littlebit more here, this like now.
So I guess that would be onething I've changed in training.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Interesting, very, very cool.
All right, last question whatwould it mean to you with this
team to metal?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Oh gosh, I think I think the past like couple,
couple worlds, the the Americanlike classic men's team hasn't
hasn't really like gotten on thepodium or performed to the best
(26:06):
of what I think we're able to,and so I see it as like an
opportunity to like really likeestablish or like reestablish
the sub ultra US men as reallygood performers.
And I think this space is reallydominated a lot by other
(26:30):
countries and countries outsidethe US and the US isn't
necessarily looked to as adominant force in the sub-ultra
space.
Like this, like this re-arrivalof um us sub ultra running, and
(26:56):
really putting the the wholesub ultra scene in the us on the
map, um, not just like, notjust like internationally, but
in the us as well.
I'm hoping it would give uslike a little bit more street
cred, because I feel like we'rekind of the the little brothers
of the trail running world andum, all right, all right, this
(27:16):
isn't my opinion.
This is how I feel we aretreated in the media and in just
the overall talking of of trailrunning.
I don't think that's true.
Course, I really like sub-ultrarunning because that's what I
do and that's why I think it'scool, but I think this is an
opportunity to really show whatwe're capable of.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, no, I think you're right.
I think this is an opportunityto rewrite the entire narrative
and I think that from the mediathat I've consumed pre race, at
least internationally not thatthere's a ton out there yet, but
I don't think people reallyrealize the squad that we're
sending, dude, like, that's all.
I don't think they get it, butthey're going to, they're going
(28:04):
to find out.
So you know what?
Mason?
Uh, wish you the best of luck.
I hope you have the day youabsolutely deserve out there in
an amazing race, and I hope it'sa special day for you.
Um, and yeah, man, hopefullywe'll get to.
Well, definitely we'll catch upafter, so we'll be in touch,
man.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
All right, sounds great.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, mason.
Thank you, we'll see you nexttime.
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