Pikes Peak Ascent & Marathon Preview with Mark Tatum

Send us a text

Standing at the base of Pike's Peak, staring up at the formidable 14,115-foot summit piercing the Colorado sky, runners face more than just a grueling physical challenge—they confront what veterans call "the ultimate mental battle." Every year, over 2,500 athletes from 46 states and eight countries gather in Manitou Springs to test their limits in America's most iconic mountain race.

What keeps bringing elite and recreational runners back to this punishing course year after year? As one participant puts it: "You know this is a test against yourself... everybody that's out here is doing it and everybody's testing themselves." The Pike's Peak Marathon and Ascent aren't merely races; they're deeply personal journeys of self-discovery set against the backdrop of one of America's most magnificent mountains.

We dive deep into what makes the 2025 edition particularly compelling, examining the stacked elite fields in both the Ascent and Marathon races. The Ascent competition looks especially fierce this year, with Seth DeMoore, Brian Whitfield, Mika Bowdoin, and rising star Zach Erickson headlining the men's field, while Reena Schwartz leads an equally impressive women's contingent. Meanwhile, John Sinclair and Christina Conati both chase historic fourth consecutive victories in the Marathon.

The podcast also explores what sets Pike's Peak apart as one of America's three oldest trail races alongside Dipsea and Mount Marathon in Alaska. We examine the community cultures surrounding each event, race strategies for conquering the mountain's brutal upper sections, and ideas for enhancing the Pike's Peak experience for both participants and spectators. Whether you're a competitive mountain runner or simply fascinated by what drives humans to push their limits at 14,000 feet, this episode offers an inspiring look at the physical and psychological journey that awaits on America's Ultimate Challenge.

Ready to test yourself against the mountain? Join us as we unravel what makes Pike's Peak the definitive proving ground for trail runners from around the world.

Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello

Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod

Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com! 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?

Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
They all start here and maketheir way towards the clouds.
It's time, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live since last year
when we did Pikes Peak History.
Yeah, yeah, which was you know?
That's one of my like highlymost.
I'm going to re-release ittomorrow.

(02:08):
Oh cool, because it's like mymost highly touted like.
People reach out to me all thetime and like ask about that
episode.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Well now?
Well, you say that and now,every time I think about it I
thought, oh, I was wrong aboutthat.
Or now I know another piece ofhistory oh, really yeah so oh
man.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I mean I'm always reading up on do we have to do a
round two, that we'll have todo a part two them for next year
or something.
If we didn't have worlds, I'dsay let's do a part two tomorrow
, or something do you favor justdown the street now?
So that's crazy I know, I knowwe're like practically neighbors
.
Bring your uh, bring your mic alittle bit closer to yourself.
You can pull it, sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Well, I have to be able to see my computer.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Oh, you do.
Okay, all right, so I'll haveto have you lean forward.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
I'm too old, I can't see anything.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
So, mark, what have you been up to?

Speaker 4 (03:01):
So it's been kind of project this year where I
decided to.
I had the opportunity to do thethree oldest trail races in the
US this year.
Did you yeah?
I did Dipsy, of course, in Juneand then I got an entry into
Mount Marathon in Alaska and hada friend offer a place to stay,

(03:24):
which was the really hard partfor me and being able to get up
there, and so they were verygracious and the people up there
were amazing and that just hadbetween those two races and
being able and then doing PikesPeak has been really interesting
comparing those three races andthere's a lot of similarities,

(03:49):
put it that way, between thethree of them.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
What did you think?
Do you think like do we gettogether as a group and do like
a Legends series?
Is that what this is, you think?

Speaker 4 (04:00):
You know, Mattia Sari mentioned that to me.
He said, yeah, I'd like to dothat.
I've talked to Dipsy and thepeople that I talk to in Dipsy
and I don't really have anyinsight in Dipsy, but it sounded
like it was something that theywere interested in, and I think
you've talked to me about thePikes Peak part of it.
Yeah.

(04:20):
So, matthias, it's somethingMatthias has really been.
He's the race director at MountMarathon.
Yeah, golden Trail or Skyrunneror one of those, or, yeah,
cirque series or one of thoseseries.
Instead, it's more aboutparticipating in these events

(04:52):
that are really important to thecommunity.
And you know Dipsy I have a lotof experience at Dipsy and they
were.
You know it's a huge communityevent and everyone just out
there having fun and it's likethe best day of the year.
You know Dipsy Day andsomething that everybody in the

(05:15):
community looks forward to.
And Mount Marathon took that, Itell you, it took it to another
level.
It's like the entire town ofSeward and it goes way beyond
Seward, it's like the entirepeninsula over there is crazy
about this race and it's just agiant party is really what it is
, and more so than Dipsy.

(05:36):
Dipsy is more like a giantpicnic, a family picnic, and
Mount Marathon just seemed likea giant weekend party.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
So it's funny you brought up mel marathon.
I was just thinking about this.
I was interviewing anton onthursday and I was hanging out
the las partiva store and therewas a bunch of las partiva
athletes there and someone saidsomething in passing that caught
my ear, that I completelyforgot about until you just said
this that is next year the100th year anniversary of mount
marathon.
It's either the 50th or the100th.

(06:09):
What it's a big anniversarythat's coming up next year
anyway.
Someone said that they werethey that there's going to be a
lot more elite openings to forthe next, for the big
anniversary okay, um which hadme stoked because I was like, oh
man, oh man, this could be,this could be really cool.
Something follow.
And, um, I missed it this yearbecause I was injured.

(06:31):
I didn't even try to get incause.
I was hurt from like Aprilthrough the end of June.
But that's the race that I wantto do.
It's high on my list.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah, and and it's funny, you mentioned Anton
because he was the one whoactually I learned about it from
him, from his old blog, really,because it was something that
he always wanted to do.
So that's kind of where Idiscovered it.
And then I started watching thelive cast, the live stream that
the local TV station would dothere, and, you know, sometimes

(06:59):
that was like the best trailcoverage we had.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Oh, it was awesome.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Yeah, depending on the year, and and so I've been a
longtime fan of of mountainmarathon and so I had this
opportunity to go and it was.
It was everything that I hadhoped.
My performance was horrible.
I might my climb okay.
So I was able to go out and Ipre-ran it on Tuesday.

(07:24):
The race was on Friday and thesecond I got on the downhill.
I realized I am not preparedfor this downhill and I think I
thought I was okay on thedownhills and I was just not
prepared for that, and so onrace day, the climb went okay.
So on race day, the climb wentokay, although I will say I was

(07:46):
also surprised on the climb thatI couldn't pass anyone because
it was just too crowded.
I mean, I passed like 10 peopleand my time was okay for my age
group.
I was the first one in my agegroup up, but I got up to the

(08:08):
top and then turned around,started coming down and
immediately my both of my calvescramped up really and for a 5k,
that's well, yeah, at that timeI was like a mile and a half in
yeah, so I've had this happento me, so so that was very
disappointing and that'shappened to me before.
That happened to me once in newyork, um, at a national
championship.
But so you know, you go way outthere and then you hobble down

(08:30):
and it's really fun yeah not notany fun, but it was a great day
.
I'm so glad I did it and nowyou know I'm much um.
I know what to prepare for areyou gonna go back?
I'd like to you absolutelyshould 100?

Speaker 3 (08:43):
I'd like to.
It's funny.
On the calf cramping stuff.
Did you have you ever taken asweat test?

Speaker 4 (08:48):
I.
I'm a very heavy sweater, so Iso I have a.
I have a theory about whathappened, and it's.
This is something that Iprocessed for weeks.
What happened, you know?
What did I do wrong?
Part of it was the late start,and, and so I think.
I had too much caffeine, and Imean I drink a lot of caffeine

(09:08):
anyway, but I had too muchcaffeine to start with and got
dehydrated probably, and I thinkthat was the major part of it
Dude.
I was totally trained forrunning uphill.
I mean so that and I was, as Isaid, I wasn't totally maxed out
going uphill because I couldn'tpass anybody, it was just

(09:32):
really hard.
It was like single file.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Really so you can't get.
It's like really difficult toget around people then.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
There I.
You have to be faster than theperson.
It took effort for me to getaround people and I don't know,
did you take?

Speaker 3 (09:51):
roots or cliffs.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
I took cliffs.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
Took cliffs.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
I think in retrospect I would have scouted out roots.
Yeah.
But maybe it wouldn't havemattered.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Allie told me to take the roots.
She said, when you do it, takethe roots.
Yeah.
I was like, all right, I'll seewhat's up.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
I did not scout the roots, so I probably should have
.
But, again the whole thing.
It was just an incredibleexperience.
I loved the steepness of it,but it's kind of hard to come
down something when neither calfworks.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Sorry to hear that.
Well, listen, man, I've had ashit race in my this year myself
, and you know what?
Next year's our year, All right, that's okay, that's what's up.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
We're going to speak that into existence.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
I have a serious question for you.
So you got to see this Alaskanmountain running community
firsthand.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
And these are some of the like greatest fans on the
planet, in my opinion, liketheir community, so tight knit,
everybody comes out for thisrace.
My question to you is we livein a pretty tight knit community
, manitou Springs, coloradoSprings.
We have a lot of people thatlove this race in Pike's Peak,
which we're also previewingtoday.
I forgot to.
I don't think I even mentionedthat when we got started rolling

(10:59):
.
How do we build a bigger fanbase at Colorado Springs?
How do we get the people out onthe trail with cowbells and get
them excited about this amazingcommunity event?

Speaker 4 (11:12):
That's something I've thought about a lot, because it
is a big community event andthere are a lot of people out
there really.
Um, it's a big mountain, sosometimes it feels like it's not
.
There's not as many people AtMount Marathon.
You know it's a 5K cut in half,I mean it only goes up, it's an

(11:32):
out and back course, so itfeels like every minute there's
someone there, but even on thetop parts up there there weren't
anyone.
Yeah, it would be nice if wecould make it easier for fans to
get up on top and especiallyfor the marathon and, uh, do the

(11:53):
whole cowbell thing andcheering and make an afternoon
of it.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
I'm thinking so here hear me out here for for the,
for the marathon or the, maybefor next year it's too late this
year, but this is somethingI've been thinking about and I
bring this up at the boardmeetings all the time Like, how
do we create fans?
So what if we designate like asection of the course that's
like easy, maybe maybe a sectionof the course for 2026 where,
like, we can even even putpeople on the train.
We put like we, we pack likepeople on the train, we take

(12:17):
them to this one section.
maybe we get off at like barcamp and that's and we just make
bar camp it right and we justhave like a giant party at Bar
Camp and because it's, you know,on the ascent, it's obviously
about halfway.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
It's a little, you know, in the ballpark of it,
yeah, and it's an easy walk backdown for the fans from Bar Camp
.
I mean you could go up thereand then walk back down.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Giant party.
We get donuts or whatever, wepipe in the food and we make it,
like you know, cowbells.
And we can even make itsponsored by, like some, I don't
know who, whatever the Northface is sponsoring it.
Right, so let's set a budgetlike a couple thousand dollars
or something, to just make thissomething special.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Right, yeah, that would be so cool and it's um,
and I already feel like thePikes Peak races are kind of
like it's the best way to go upPikes Peak If you're.
You know, if you want to go doPikes Peak, go.
Might as well go do the ascentor something, because it's
supported, you get a ride backdown and it's just a really fun

(13:14):
day.
It doesn't matter how fast yougo, as long as you can somehow
stay ahead of the cutoffs.
But for you know, for trailrunners it's not a difficult
cutoff.
I don't think it.
For trail runners it's not adifficult cutoff, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
It's true.
Do you want to hear a funnyMatt story?
That happened to me the otherday.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Dude, you're going to laugh really hard at this.
So I talked to Anton.
What?
No, I talked to Anton onThursday, Friday.
This was Friday.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
So I'm like scouting this new.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
I shouldn't put this out into the world, but I found
some trails near Crystal Parkthat I've been liking really a
lot lately.
That ace showed me.
That's all I'll say abouttrails.
I'm near crystal park, I put itthat way.
I think I know where you, wherethey are.
I'm leaving my leave, I'mleaving the that parking lot,
and who do?
I see matt carpenter justrandomly walking down the road
and so I I like slow downbecause I'm like I do I have
time to have a conversation withhim.
I'm thinking I'm gonna talk tohim, so him, so I go to like
slow down, like roll down mywindow, and then I check the
time and I'm like, oh my God,I'm 30 minutes late to get back
to work, like I I cannot.

(14:09):
So I like slow down my car justenough to where it's weird.
And he like looks at me andlike we make awkward eye contact
.
And then I like speed up andlike he like looks at me
befuddled and like I don't knowif he recognized me or I don't
think he even knows who I am.
So I like keep driving and I'mlike drive up a little fast.
So he like pulls out his phonethinking I'm like a stalker like
takes a photo of my licenseplate.

(14:30):
So this gets back to him.
Matt Carver, I'm really sorryLike I was not stalking you, but
I was going to talk to youanyway, so yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
Supposedly he has a run streak still going on.
That spans a long time, likesince 2012 or something I don't
know Really, or maybe beyondthat.
I don't know a long time.
So, and he's often on.
I often see him on Intamin.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yep, that's always where I see him.
You know another funny story.
I bumped into him.
I'm having like a nice sunday,like I just figured out this
like new route on my bike, uh,from the house and I could go up
lower gold camp.
And I'm like on the climb onlower gold camp just chilling,
like just on the road section onmy gravel bike, just taking it
all in having a great sunday,and who like catches me as mac

(15:19):
carpenter, and I didn't realizeit was him.
I was like who the fuck is thisguy like like trying to like
race with me?
So I get on his tail, I'm likeracing, I'm holding them Like
I'm like not letting this guyget away from me and all of a
sudden I guess he realizes likeI'm on his tail and he drops me
like hard and he only gets likemaybe 50 yards ahead of me.
It's where like turns fromgravel into road or from road

(15:42):
into gravel on lower goal campand he like turns around and
like gives me this look and justlike shots, like just
completely like takes off on thedescent.
I was like, oh man, mattcarpenter still got it there's
that same guy stalking me again.
Yeah yeah, he still got it.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
So I've got some funny run-ins with him, like
it's kind of weird I always sayhi to him, but I'm you know he's
probably everybody says hi tohim, he recognizes him.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I'd love to talk to him, have him on.
He's um, it's funny.
Anton said something reallylike not on our podcast but in
another one, that like reallystuck with me.
He's like I would want to bedifferent than Matt, cause I
guess Matt has been in previousyears a little more, little more
quiet, more reclusive, doesn'treally come out to stuff and,
like I think he's, I think hemight start to come out more

(16:31):
just because, like now, he's gota youtube channel out there.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
probably people don't know about this yeah, you
showed it to me, peak runner.
Yeah, he put.
He posted some great things onthere.
Has he posted anything recently?

Speaker 3 (16:42):
uh, he put up.
Um no, I've actually watchedlike I think it's been a bit of
a year since he put stuff up.
Okay, but he put up like stufflike back when manitou like
flooded and had um, all those,uh like all kinds of stuff, yeah
yeah.
So it was interesting talking toanton too because, like I
brought up, I was like you know,that year you would have run
pikes and not run leadville,like have you?
You would have clashed with macarpenter, like he's, like he

(17:02):
swears he wasn't in good enoughshape to beat him, but I just
find that like that.
That would have been a veryinteresting like story in our
sport had anton run that raceyeah, I think it would, as you.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
As you said in the podcast, I think it might have
changed anton's trajectorybecause when he he ran that
leadville it was like he reallyarrived on on the stage at that
point super stardom yeah andprobably wouldn't happen with
pike's peak no it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
He just thinks that.
I mean.
According to him it would havebeen delayed, but interesting
yeah, yeah, he's probably rightabout that.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
Eventually he would have been an ultra runner yeah,
but super cool guy.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Um, all right, let's talk more about pike's peak.
Where are we going with this?
We're talking about the legends.
Um, like the three different uhraces.
You think there's like, whatdid you like most about?
How about this?
Because dipsy's its own thing,mount marathon's very much his
own thing.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Pikes is something what still do you is the most
special you know, let me talkabout because you, because you
had mentioned the Alaskacommunity.
Yes, there's definitely acommunity in Marin County for
Dipsy and there is but thecommunity in Alaska was, it

(18:20):
seemed there was some reallygreat runners there and really
just a ton of really strongrunners.
And you know, most of themprobably can't come down here to
do races here Certainly a lotof them do but they are very
welcoming to me and the funnything is that there was a
contingent from Alaska who didDipsy this year, contingent from

(18:42):
Alaska who did Dipsy this yearand with the intent of they ran,
did the runner section thisyear and they're going to and
then they qualified for theinvitational next year.
So they're going to come backand Matias has said he's going
to come back and try to do whatI'm doing this year.
Do all three of them?
Isn't Matias entered in themarathon?

Speaker 3 (19:01):
That's a good question.
Anyway, we'll have to chat.
Entered in the marathon.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
That's a good question.
Anyway, if he is, we'll have tochat.
So the community is reallytight.
They have a whole series ofraces there, real trail races
there in the Anchorage area, andwhen I went there, it wasn't
just my friend from ColoradoSprings who would let me sleep
on his couch, his Airbnb couch,but I had a couple other people

(19:27):
who would let me sleep in intheir you know, in their house.
So I mean it was just, it wasamazing the community and the
welcoming spirit and everyone'sjust super nice, and so I really
appreciated that, that aspectof it.
And sometimes, you know, Ithink that's partly just Alaska.
Do you think?

Speaker 3 (19:48):
and I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but
this is something we're talkingabout for 2026 that Broken Arrow
does.
Do you think we could benefitfrom an elite housing program
for Pikes Peak, like?
Do you think that would help,just from a community
perspective, for us to build?

Speaker 4 (20:01):
more for sure, for sure, I don't know.
Yeah, we probably got away fromthat a little bit with when the
golden trail series was here,because they had their own
accommodation plan, right so weused to do it.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Then no one brought that up to me.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
When I brought that up at the I don't know I'm
assuming it, this is my memorymaybe, and I was never on the
elite program anyway, but um, itseems like there was people
staying in houses, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Okay, yeah, I just think that that's something we
could definitely benefit.
There's like so many different,like different ideas you could
throw at this race to continueto like, make it and improve,
make a change, you know.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
And and um, to be fair, you know, I think that you
know we had the Pikes Peak, hadthe event downtown for a while
for the registration and thenthey tried to make it an event
in Manitou.
They closed the main street inManitou on Marathon Day and that
was pretty cool.

(20:59):
I don't know how it was for thebusiness owners.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yeah, they probably didn't like that A bunch of
tired runners run walking around.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
But you know so there were some of that feel feeling
and I've been to broken arrowtoo and and they, they had the
advantage just having the skiresort there and having it
completely.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Nothing but trail runners it's kind of its own
like centered thing, whereasmanitou is the town.
You know we talked about this,and this is something I've
wondered for a while is if webring the expo out to downtown
or instead of, and then makepeople park out, you know, on an
OCC and then walk in orsomething like that, or have a

(21:49):
shuttle system.
I think that would make it, Idon't know like.
I think the beauty of likemammoth, for instance, one thing
they do really well is theyshowcase their town.
They make it like this is ourresort, our town, our place, and
I think we need to do a betterjob of like showcasing our
mountain in a lot of ways.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah, I'd be interested to know what the
response was in 2018 and 2019when they did did something
similar.
Yeah.
So I remember, I remember thestage for the awards for the
marathon was set up right on thestreet.
So, um, I don't know what thefeedback was, and then covid
kind of messed up yeah, a lot ofthat stuff after that yeah,

(22:29):
committee, there's always acommittee.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
All right, let's talk about the 2025 race a little
bit.
I think this is a muchdifferent type of race than
we've had in previous years, butthe exception of last year.
I think this is very similar tolast year.
Um, have you checked theweather forecast?

Speaker 4 (22:45):
I actually have not going into this well, the the
weather forecast I saw today washigh of like 60 um 70, I think
okay down here but and uh, lowin the morning of like 50.
So if it was like you know,which is about what it was today
, what really matters is thebarometric pressure, and it

(23:09):
would be interesting to see howthat plays out.
We've had some reallyhigh-pressure days lately.
Yeah.
And so I'm hopeful that we'llget a good high-pressure day on
race day, Because we have hadsome more not as many clear blue
skies as we normally do inseptember.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
I don't know how it's going to go yeah, the weather's
been very up, and so here's myquestion is if we get another
bad weather year and we have tochange the marathon again or the
ascent or something like I, Iwonder if that's going to put
pressure on the organization tomove the race back to august,
because that's that's themillion dollar question, not
that that that's like beingdiscussed internally, but like

(23:47):
there's.
I mean there's a good chance wemove the race a week earlier
next year, or maybe two weeksearlier, just because there was
like something we were talkingabout about this, about that
they needed the first weekend ofSeptember or something like
that for something else, forManitou.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
And now that's like the Labor Day.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, but now it's like not a thing, like not, it's
not labor day, it's something.
Maybe it's the second week ofseptember.
Um, they like needed it forsomething oh really yeah, like
with manitou, and now whateverthat was is not like a roadblock
anymore.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
I don't know something you know we had
horrible weather up there and onuh, the weekend pikes peak on
leadville weekend yeah it wasn'tgreat, so um, I think it's
probably better in september doyou think so?

Speaker 3 (24:32):
maybe like earlier, though, like in september, maybe
first or second?
Week?
Yeah, because I think I mean dothe 20th is such a dice roll
with just snow and with just I.
I mean the last few years it'sbeen close.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
I guess I'm not on that bandwagon.
I think that the decision tomove it to September was the
right one.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
I had a woman reach out to me asking if she could
put together a what the hell wasit, I shit you not a petition
to get it moved back in August Iwas like no, please don't do
that.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well, I was in.
I ran in when was it?
Was it like the Thursday beforeor something, when it would
have been?
I ran from Elk Park and therewas I'm not kidding you a foot
of hail for a mile along thattrail from Oak Park to Bar Camp.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
No way.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
On the peak, so I mean it wasn't on Bar Trail, but
it could have been.
Yeah.
And it was crazy, this was morethan 24 hours.
Well, maybe it was from thenight before and then that
afternoon I went, so it was on aSunday, but it was around that
time and monsoon season ithappens in August, yeah it's

(25:51):
true.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
It's true.
I mean, this is the nature ofthe beast.
This is what happens when youhave races on 14,000 foot
mountains.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
I mean UTMB always scheduled it during the, when
their weather turns every year.
It's true.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, this year was an interesting year.
They had to change some stuffaround, which made it
interesting, right yeah?

Speaker 4 (26:10):
And that's pretty, that's common.
So, yeah, I don't I, I, wedefinitely want to go to the top
.
Yeah.
Last year was horrible yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, I don't know.
It should be a good one eitherway.
I think it'll be.
It'll be fun nonetheless.
So what stuck out to you aboutthe start list this year, any
particular people that have youinterested for the 2025 season
or 2025 race, I should sayanything um, on both ends the
ascent or the marathon that kindof stuck out to you what do you
want to start with?

Speaker 4 (26:37):
the marathon or the um oh man?

Speaker 3 (26:40):
well, I could say one thing is I had a sizable role
if not with my with our boardmember partner Sarah, as far as
putting together the competitiveentries.
But there was still people thatpopped up on both the Ascent
and Marathon that didn't reachout to us for competitive
entries.
So they were just kind offiltered into the list like Seth

(27:01):
and Joe Damore, just kind ofsigned up on their own.
They were just kind of filteredinto the list.
Like Seth and Joe Damore justkind of signed up on their own,
mika Bowdoin Rocio, who is notofficially on the race start
list yet but will be.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
He was on the list that I saw.
He was on the list.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, that means he signed up then as of today.
Okay, he and I spoke yesterday,so he's in.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Well, that's great.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
But that's for the ascent, uh, for the marathon,
all right.
So one big thing I do want tocaveat for the marathon is that
we had a lot of athletes reachout to us this year.
This is the fun part that Inever realized before about
running an organization or doingwork for an organization is
that, like you know, there's alot of moving parts.
So we had a lot of athletesthis year reach out to drop from
the marathon and move down tothe ascent.
That's kind of the story of2025.

(27:42):
Wow, more than um, quite a few.
So it's a much thinner field inthe marathon, in my honest
opinion.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Right.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Um, the, the deep race this year is going to be
the ascent again, from what Ican tell.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yeah, and that's that's usually the case, it's.
You know, it doesn't take, asSome people use it as a
springboard into some of thesefall races.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
That's very true, very true.
Yeah, any, any names inparticular stuck out or any
storylines or anything outsideof that that you think.
I can even give some names, forinstance, like on the
registration list there won't bethere on the marathon side.
Like Hawk call will not beracing and he's a notable drop.
Definitely would have been acontender for the win.

(28:31):
Who's not going to be there?
Adrian mcdonald as well.
Former two-time leadvillechampion.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, that would have been interesting that would
have been interesting.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, I would have liked to have seen adrian and
hawk mix it up with john.
I think it would have madejohn's uh for pete possibly much
more harder, or a little bitharder, if you will, or as like
I look at this lesson now and Ijust see like unless John trips
on a rock, I think he's going tohave himself, oh, for sure.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
He's my, he's my pick too, and Christina, Christina
as well On the women's side.
So that was my you asked for.
My general take is that the lowyou know the local runners are
definitely going to um do well,there's going to be a lot of
local runners who are going tofinish in the top 10 this year

(29:16):
at a major event, and then thisis a real opportunity for them
to do that, which just makes itsuch a special day.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I mean amongst Christine.
I should talk about Christinaas well.
Christina, we did have her.
She is well, she's not on thelist yet she is going be running
.
Um, she, I think, is veryexcited to come back for a
potential.
This would be her fourth win,if she does get it, pull it off,
which I mean as far as therecord books go and as far as

(29:43):
legacy on this mountain, um, youknow, up there with some of the
most winningest persons thathave ever run this race, which
is pretty cool right and she hasthe fastest downhill time.
She does have the fastest time.
She is probably.
I mean, I don't know.
It's hard for me to say cause,like I'm not aware, like I'm
less aware of the women downhilland uphill times, as I am like,

(30:03):
for instance, like my cohortand the men.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
Right.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Um, but I have to say like I'd put her up there
amongst one of the best femaledownhill downhillers in America
for sure.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
Oh for sure, and especially on this mountain.
Um yeah, she's put on someincredible performances coming
down but, but she won't be underany pressure, um, from what I
can tell from the entry list.
But who knows?

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I like I yeah, Looking at the,I don't see her being pressured.
But who knows?
You said it could be.
Could be a tell of differentyears, I don't know.
She seems to be in good formthis year, you know 20,.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
she got top 20 in the pikes or top 20 in the broken
arrow, 23 K and she won BTMRthis year and not a super close
race for btmr, but I I don'tthink she was challenged too
much.
But yeah, I talked to a coupleguys who she passed on the way
down, so oh, yeah, they wereimpressed.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
They were impressed.
She's a killer man.
I always love seeing christinaand you know, every time I see
her on the trails she's alwayssmiling, she's always saying hi
and you know she's always justsuch a pleasant person, you know
, like just kind of uplifts themood even if you're having a
rough day out.
Like you know, she's alwaysvery positive.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
I'm.
I happen to be on top when,like a mile down from the top,
when, when she set the recordcoming down and was that 2018 or
something?
And she was just smiling, she,you know, waved at me and as she
ran by everybody going down,that was, that was an incredible

(31:37):
race, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Yeah, she's a killer, absolute killer.
You know it'd be cool to one ofthese years if we could get
like a I don't know if we goback into being a series of some
kind or working with a seriesof some kind if we had the right
rabbits and like the rightathletes in the race to push her
, I'd love to see her try andmake a go at the record.
I don't know how touchablemod's record is in my opinion.

(31:59):
I mean, you gotta remember toomod necessarily didn't come from
altitude, so I wonder how muchmore touchables like I'd like to
see ali give it a go too.
Like I think that there's someladies, um, you know, that could
definitely challenge for thatmarathon record, especially
given christina's descendingyeah, I think definitely
christina, or um, it'd beinteresting to see ally go for

(32:22):
the marathon.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Hasn't she done the marathon once?

Speaker 3 (32:26):
yeah, I think she got second or she won it.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
I should know this yeah, I should know this too, I.
But she did the double, that'swhat I think it was, so she
didn't win that year.
But no, I think she got second.
She had done the double yeah,and she would have.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
I think ashley brassivan might have beaten her
that year.
Um, I'm looking it up right nowwhile we're doing this.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
But yeah, I think a healthy Allie could challenge
that record.
But you know, in 2019 whenMaude set that, she was at the
very top at the women's.
She won the Golden Trail Seriesthat year.
That's not wrong.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Allie McLaughlin has run the marathon twice actually.
Okay, she was third in what isthis?
2020?
And then she was second in 2021.
Both years she did the double,where she actually no first in
2020, she did not do the doubleyeah.
So in 2021, she did the doublewhere she won.

(33:29):
So, yeah, there you go.
Now I got the, the resultspulled up and I can actually
give some.
Give some commentary.
She, you know it's interesting.
So it just goes to show you howmuch she improved from 2020 to
2021.
In 2021 was the year shedoubled.
In 2021 she beat her time from2020.
In 2020 she ran uh 438 12, and2021 she ran 438 06.

(33:54):
That's six seconds off.
That's crazy how like closethat is crazy, yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Who won in?
Who won those years?

Speaker 3 (34:00):
uh, hold on.
I think ashley brassavan won in2021, but let me just make sure
, making me think for this, Iknow.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
I could be looking it up too.
Sorry, I'm just an Allie Mackfan, I guess.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
No, me too, Me too.
Why isn't that coming up?

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Yeah, I believe it was Ashley Brassavone.
Wow, I would like to see morecompetition in the marathon.
It's interesting how it ebbsand flows, and when the Golden
Trail Series was part of themarathon, that really helped, oh
my apologies, it was StevieKramer who won.

(34:54):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, stevie Kramer won that year 2021.
All right, so let's get into.
We'll talk about.
I'm going to talk about theascent because I feel like
there's more names in there,more story.
Um, I think the big one thatstood out for me was seth james

(35:15):
demore and joe demore uh, myteammate, a las partiva, is in
this race.
Um, joe demore is in good shape.
I just saw him at cirque series, grand targi.
Um, where he got on the podium,had a great race there.
And then seth demore it'salways hard for me to kind of
figure out like where he's at inhis season.
He usually likes to peak forraces like this Um, he raced.
He had a really bad race at um,what was it?
The GoPro games earlier in June.

(35:36):
I would imagine he's fit now.
Um, so it was hard to tell.
I don't know.
He shows up to these races andhe's so good above tree line
that, like you, can never counthim out.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
He's been doing a lot of a lot of 14ers this summer,
this summer and, yeah, uh, lastweekend, on sunday, I think he
just yesterday he set a um a cron one of the alternate mount
albert routes, did he reallyokay?

Speaker 3 (36:02):
so so he's fit very he seems like he's fit.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Yeah, he can.
Yeah, he didn't set it on themain one.
He said on the south, the southtrail you know what's crazy?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
of all his ascent times, his fastest one was when
he won the marathon in 2021.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
He ran 206 44 I know that was a crazy great race dude
, that's so fast.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
You know what's interesting too.
He's always I mean, I've heardlegendary stories about him
above tree line that he justmows people down.
Both in 2023 and then even lastyear, in 24.
He caught um, he caught mika.
Mika was in second place formost of that race and he caught
Mika.
I think it was like either justbelow the golden stair, it was
close.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Uh 23 in 2024.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Uh, last year when he got second to Joe he got, he
was very caught, mika, right atthe end.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
Wasn't last year that were brain out or the?
They didn't go to the top.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Oh no, they went.
They didn't go to the top.
No, they went to the top lastyear.
You're talking about the ascent.
I'm talking about the ascent,not the marathon.
Sorry, I'm sorry.
No, you're good.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
Yeah, he does, just mow people down.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
He's very good above tree line, so the DeMoor
brothers are going to be in thisrace.
Another name that stands outfor me in my opinion, the person
that beat in this race is goingto be brian whitfield.
Um eighth place in 2023 ran 214, 55.

(37:19):
Yes, he's not quite has the prthat seth does, but there is
such a thing as father time andI think brian has aged into the
best form of himself right now.
Another top 10 finish of thebroken arrow 46k.
He's out there in gunnisonrunning at high altitude and
training really hard.
Um.
I think there's a lot ofindicators and last week, fifth
place at uh Cirque series.
Um a basin which is a superfast.
That was very competitive race.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Um, a lot of indicators that he's in good
shape, in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Yeah, he's definitely on my list as well.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Um some other names that stand out to me Jarrett
Gillingham, kieran Ney.
Jarrett Gillingham has had a hewas at Mount Marathon with you.
Yeah, I think, he got a top 10finish, I believe somewhere in
that range.
Kieran Ney, who just got on thepodium of the Grand Traverse.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
You know Kieran has had a great year.
He did really well in some ofthe Golden Trail Series and I
think he really had a breakoutyear this year.
Yeah.
And I've got him in my topthree yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
No, I think you know Kieran's come close man.
Like you know, last year he gotwhat fifth at the Ascent.
He was there.
I kind of picked him to be onthe podium last year and take
that step forward.
You know, I think maybe histraining this year might have
been more um, for I don't know,it's hard to say like maybe it
was more for grand traversestuff, more longer stuff.

(38:38):
I do know he has a few moreraces lined up after this that
are a bit longer, so maybe he'strying dabbling at the longer
stuff.
He was one of the original onesthat was signed up for the
marathon and dropped down to theascent okay, okay um, which is
interesting because I wonder ifhe could have actually won uh or
challenged for the marathon winthis year against uh john I

(39:00):
mean john's in sick shape likehe he seems like he's really fit
jeff got second to him at uh umat btmr and jeff, you had some
some high praise to give to him.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
So yeah, he's been spending a lot of time on the
mountain too, so yeah.
I'm excited to see John.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Um, some other names that stuck out to me Tyler
Vierman, who had a top 20 finishlast year.
He's coming back.
He had a pretty okay finish ata Cirque series, a basin he was
in the mix.
Um, a big name for me is ZachErickson.
I I recruited him to come outto this race and I feel very
proud of that.
Um, zach erickson was a top top10 at sunup.
This year seventh.

(39:40):
He's also the collegiatenational title holder and was on
the podium last year at the usmountain running championship
for cirque snowbird.
Uh, the kid is sick talentedhe's so good, he's from utah.
Yeah, he can't be anything olderthan 21.
He's a collegiate nationaltitle holder.
I'll tell you how old hespecifically is right now, zach
Erickson is 24.

(40:01):
Oh, I'm sorry I'm wrong 24years old, so he's a little bit
older.
In college, 20 to 24 categoryNever ran Pikes Peak before.
He's from Orem, utah Absolutestud.
Like I think he has anopportunity to get on the podium
Like he's that talented, thatwould be big for him.
Yeah, it's a little bit long forhim and it's a little bit high,

(40:22):
so he tends to stand out inthose mountain classic races.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
You know, in the Wasatch, especially Orem that's
where Christian Allen is fromand a lot of other stud athletes
.
I you know what is temp 11,000feet, something like that, so
you can get it pretty high upabove tree line.
But I think once you get umthere's, it's very difficult to
mimic that anything above.
Uh, maybe a frame Like that's avery difficult thing to nail

(40:50):
yeah, unless you can train onthe mountain, that's, that's a
really.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
If you're not doing, not spending time up there, it's
going to be tough.
Yeah, yep, but but he may, hemay well.
I haven't checked his strava,so he may well be getting up
high yeah so one guy who I knowwho, who has been, who has made
several trips up to the top, isevans cabat and he's been going
up with joe and um you thinkhe's the heir apparent I think

(41:17):
that he he has a chance to geton the podium.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Okay, all right, I've I mean I've followed a lot of
his training.
Evans cabat, like I've like, uhlike he's shown up at some uh
like different like leaderboardsand stuff that I like I've seen
on him.
So I know he's like kind of inthe mix with Joe bunch.
Joe didn't I?
I should have asked her todayif he could give me more
information on him, but I knowlast year he was supposed to

(41:42):
race and didn't race.
So I don't know.
I mean didn't apply for acompetitive entry.
I think he just signed uphimself.
I think he just signed uphimself.
I mean, if he's been up therewith Joe toying around, I'm sure
Joe's given him some pointers.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yeah, I think he's been up there with Joe and John,
from what I can tell.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Interesting Maybe air pair.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
He doesn't post on Strava.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah, there's not much on there.
There's a few things here andthere that'll be on a
leaderboard.
Peter Maximal is returning tothis race.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
Yeah, I wanted to talk about that because that is
so great Peter's been workingthrough.
He's had an injury for I don'tknow a decade, and that he had a
knee injury.
I think he got it from eitherBTMR or the marathon Pikes Peak
Marathon and it just really tookhim.
He was he was, um, a sponsoredpro at the time and it just

(42:38):
really set him back, so it's sogood to see him out there yeah,
you know, I don't know petersuper well.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Um, we'll have to have him on the podcast at some
point.
I had no idea that guy likeI've met him probably three or
four times.
I didn't know he was 46 yearsold.
I thought he was much younger.
Like he comes off as muchyounger to me.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
So, yeah, it's going to be cool to see him in the mix
.
He's a great photographer.
We're really lucky to have himin the sport.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Now he's, like I said , very well known.
It's going to be very cool tohave him.
It's a good mix up.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Yeah, I was surprised to see his name on there and so
happy that he's making it back.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
A couple more names I want to throw out.
There is Owen Wright, MarkShenberger.
Mark used to live in theSprings.
I know he used to be roommateswith Ace Brown.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
So you know he's fast .
He spent some time in Durango.
He's back in Denver now, though, right.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Is he?
I don't know.
The last I knew of him was inDurango.
Let's see what he's listedunder Mark, mark, mark, he's
still listed under Durango.
Yeah, I think he just movedback to Denver Did he yeah, I
snipe all of his stuff from like2019 to 2020 on Strava Like
he's got a lot of like reallygood routes that people don't

(43:49):
like to do in the springs.
So there's some, some goodlittle gems in there.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Yeah, I think that we I cross with him quite a bit on
the routes too yeah, lots ofgood stuff there.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Um, nick tusa, do you want to shout out?
Uh, one of my good buddies,frequent co-host on the podcast
and sometimes training partner,nick tusa.
Um, nick just got on the podiumof um devil on the divide, had
a great finish there.
He's definitely fit.
He's peaking for this race.
Uh, this is a race on the year,so I would not know.

(44:19):
Not I would.
I would expect to see himsomewhere in that top 10, top 15
mix up.
I know he um is targeting that,so it's going to be cool to see
Nick in the mix.
Uh, jeff cuno as well.
Um, jeff, second place btmr.
Um, him as well.
Just race zach miller at thedevil on the divide, 50k.
Had a great finish there.
Um, he's kind of figuring outthe 50k distance and and lower,

(44:43):
so this is going to be one ofhis shorter races of the year.
He's, I think, aback-to-back-to-back champion at
the up and over 10k down intaos primary new mexico runner,
but, as of this year, has beenstaying at higher altitude,
living up in evergreen or aroundeight or nine thousand feet.
Um, jeff is interesting man,like he's one of the brightest
minds.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
Uh, as far as coaching goes, he's a brilliant
coach I listened to, uh, to thatpodcast you did with him and
was.
It was really interesting he'sand I've talked to him and in
the past he's really a greatrunner great runner.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Good dude, just a very good, kind human and
someone that he's always givenme pointers and, um, I'm always
asking him questions and stufflike that, so he is, uh,
extremely talented he's beenplaying around a lot more above
tree line.
He says he feels comfortable.
One of the things he wasworking on nailing this time
around in his words were, um,you know, kind of that high,

(45:35):
high up, being able to feel goodabove a frame.
I think that's the the numberone thing a lot of people are
trying to work on get thatdialed in and yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
So the key there is just saving it for above bar
camp and yeah we should.
We should have a conversationabout what it takes to run a
good ascent I mean, I think it'sso hard the expert, but um,
it's so many people get it wrongthat it's really fascinating to
watch people up above tree lineyeah it's, I mean, it's really

(46:07):
interesting.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
I I think a master class of seph demore, in my
opinion oh yeah like he just um.
Like I said I I think it's veryeasy in that first 2000 feet,
even in that first road mile.
I mean that first road mileonly gains a few hundred feet.
Like it's not that hard for atapered elite to go run sub six
minute pace on that.
And then you know you're whatlow, five minute, high, four

(46:28):
minute grade adjusted pace andyou're going to continue that
into the five, six minute greatadjusted pace on the w's and
you're destroyed by the time youhit 2200 feet and you're like
oh my god, I have a lot more torun right um, I think it's
easier, it's smarter to just sitback and let the race unfold in
front of you and then, once youhit the flats, you can make
moves like once you turn on touh, it is so easy to just push

(46:49):
too hard on the Ws and try toget past people Because it's so
steep.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
you can go way too hard too, fast.
You know the guy who does otherthan Carpenter, obviously the
guy who has done the best onpacing himself, I think, is Joe.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Gray yes, yep.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
And, if you look, he's one of the very few people
who can do a negative split frombar camp just so crazy the
thing is.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
I think one of the hardest parts to nail too is
that section of and I say thison it probably every like like
pike's peak episode that we talkabout is that section above bar
camp to a-frame yeah thoseswitchbacks are just like.
So make like, if you're hikingthat you are getting swallowed
up, your race is over.
Like you're not competitive atthat point.
Like you have to run every stepof that or else it's going to

(47:40):
be it's game over If you want toget on that podium or get in
the top 10.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
Yeah, and it's really Rocky and and just gets higher
and higher, and that's wherepeople do start walking
especially well, a lot of thetop women will end up walking,
run, walking, that.
Yeah.
And they'll, so it's.
I wonder how many of the topguys end up run, walking, or at

(48:08):
what point does that start?
I've been told.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
I mean, I feel like I don't know.
It depends on the person, butI've been told like, oh, is it
2023 Pikes?
Francesco Poopy was like on theside of the trail, like dying,
and like walked it all and cameback from the dead and like I
forget what he finished at, buthe had a one up having a good
finish.
I don't know, it just depends.
Like, I think you can get, youmight be able to get away with

(48:34):
it, but then you're going tohave to book it.
Once you hit a frame and itstarts to flatten out a little
bit, you're going to have to get.
You know it, but it's still.
You know you're at 12 plus.
So good luck with that.
That's another section that'shard to nail.
Um, I think, a lot of moves.
If you're going to make a move,in my opinion, where I would

(48:58):
make the move is going to be inthat flat section.
Uh, once you turn off the noname and you get above, once you
basically get above no name, um, before bar camp, because it's
flatter, right and you have runseven minute pace.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
If you took it easy enough on the W's then you have
permission to run a littlefaster on that on over to bar
camp.
Yeah.
But as he says, the race didn'treally start until I get to bar
camp.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
I can see that.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
I mean it makes sense Um but, but, um, but I also see
lots of people just running ashard as they can to bar camp and
just surviving to the top whichI don't recommend.
And and I maybe it doesn'tmatter, but I I do think that if
you can negative split it andif you go back and look at past

(49:44):
years, almost nobody negativesplits, no, no and if you could
actually come close to evensplits, then that's probably the
best way to run it.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.
It's tricky mountain,definitely a tricky mountain
than the last, but we'll have to.
There's plenty of people I wantto see out here still Like I
wonder if it's always hardbecause it conflicts with the
rut so much.
But next year that's not aworld's year.
I'd love to see if we can getMichelino back out here to do
something like this Some of thebetter mountain runners in the

(50:14):
country to make the marathongreat.
In a lot of ways.
It would be kind of cool to getsome more mountain guys out
here to do the marathon, likeAdam Peterman.
Get him back, there's a lot ofpeople.
I think that could be AdamPeterman.
Get him back.
There's a lot of people.
I think that could be DavidSinclair.
He's a former champion.
It'd be cool to get him back.
He was at the start list lastyear and didn't show David
Sinclair.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
Well, we want to have the worlds interfering with the
schedule next year, so that'llbe a big part of it.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Opens things up.
Yeah, I mean, this is themillion-dollar question.
It's like, all right, at whatpoint in time does like UTMB
consolidation start to likereally impact it, especially for
like people are very I mean,july or September.
July, september, is like a verypicky time because it's like
you're either going to Pikesthis year, you're either going
to Pikes, world worlds, the rut,or you're going to go to or

(51:03):
mammoth and mammoth.
It's got a huge following aswell.
If you're from that californiaarea, I think a lot of people
are mammoth curious to see.
You know, tim's got a built aamazing thing there.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
So, yeah, it's going to be interesting.
I think it's mainly worldsthat's interfering this year
with um a lot of the coloradowell we'd have joe back, for
instance.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Like I'm sure joe would go for another win um, and
I don't think it would beparticularly that hard for him.
I think this would be aparticular like I.
To me the most interesting raceout of the entire series is
going to be the women's ascent.
Like I'm very excited to seewhat happens on the women's.
Like there's one name thatstands out to me that I'm like
really excited to see um, andthen there's another, like a

(51:44):
good list of like othercompetitors that I'm like, huh,
this could be, this could bereally interesting to see what
happens.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Like it is totally wide open, I think yeah who do
you who?
Who is the one name that standsout to you?
Oh, reena schwartz that's whatI was going to say yeah she's,
she's been doing really wellyeah mount washington.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Although it was a shortened course, mount
washington winner um this yearand I, even if the course was
longer, I think she still wouldhave won.
Like arena's in really goodform this year.
Um also just can't like showsthat it's not a fluke just
racing down at sea level becauseshe's she lived in vermont for
um a good chunk of the yearright and then comes up here has
only been here for a shortperiod of time and wins circ

(52:24):
series a basin, and like wins itbeats um.
Like, for instance, like beatcourtney coppinger no, who
wasn't necessarily peaking forthis race she's peaking for
worlds in a couple weeks, uh,but still be courtney coppinger,
who's one of the best, if nothaving the best, female mountain
runner year this year, besidesa few others.
Um, yeah, dude, reena is veryyoung and has, in my opinion, an

(52:45):
extremely bright future, likeI'm very excited to see, um, you
know, which she's you knowpossibly could do, and she's
only, I think she's 25 years old.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
So yeah, definitely kind of new to the scene.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Yep Um.
A few others that stick out tome Alicia Vargo Um.
She's mixed it up in a fewgolden trail series races in
previous years.
I think she has a good shot.
Um.
Sarah Carter Um.
She's mixed it up in a fewgolden trail series races in
previous years.
I think she has a good shot.
Um.
Sarah Carter Um.
I'm excited to see Sarah Carterin this race as well.
I think she has an opportunityto challenge for the podium.
Um has two top 10 finishes thisyear one at tape act trail um at

(53:19):
the golden trail world seriesand the other one at the uh pits
Alpen glacier.
Um had a good finish at OCC aswell.
So as long as she's not tootired in the legs, I think she'd
have a good race.
Um.
Also andy cornish.
I think andy cornish has theability to do very well here.
Um said some really goodfinishes this year at races um a

(53:40):
lot of ascent races, so she'slike an interesting, like
medical thing I think she waspretty transparent with this on
the podcast where, because ofcertain medical reasons, she can
only race uphill races thisyear.
That's like her time, unlessshe gets a specific.
I think it's like a specialsurgery so that way she can race
downhill as well.
I forget what it specificallywas.
What was the issue?
And I don't want to say thewrong thing and then have to go

(54:02):
back and edit it.
Yada, yada, yada, but back andedit it, yada, yada, yada, but
she's been doing pretty wellanyway.
Dude, andy corner, she's akiller.
Andy corner, she's an absolutecrusher.
We're having her on for apre-race interview, uh, I think
tomorrow.
Um, so yeah, expect to see herin the mix.
Um, I'm not really sure.
I'm told anime flynn will.
I'm not really sure if she'sgoing to be there or not.
I've got like mixed informationon that.

(54:23):
So there's a chance you seeanime fly.
There's a chance you might notsee anime Flynn.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
Um, what do you think about Brittany Sharpa now?

Speaker 3 (54:31):
She's an uh I.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
I you know former marathon winner marathon, but
it's.
It's hard for me to to trackexactly how how serious she is
about it.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Yeah, it's, it's, I mean she is about it.
Yeah, it's, it's, I mean she'sone of those.
Uh, she was, she's a tnfathlete, um, so she gets a auto
entry from them.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
So I was.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
I was told entry because she's a former champ
former champ she's I don't knowman it's hard for me to say like
she's an interesting person, Ium she's also have you or do you
follow her on strava?

Speaker 4 (55:05):
She she's.
Maybe she's actually a veryfunny and what she calls she's
got jokes, man, yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
She's got jokes.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Pretty funny.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Uh, yeah, I love her approach.
Um, I know she was at the rutthis weekend, but I don't think
she raced.
I think she was just theresupporting Okay, Uh, it's hard
to say I don like.
The reason I'm hesitant isbecause she's been on the list
the last few years and has notraced, so I'm not really sure
what will.
If she'll line up on race day,what the situation will be like

(55:33):
there.
Gwen Rudy she's put down asGwendolyn Rudy here.
Gwen Rudy is a schema athlete,a very talented uphill athlete.
I will say she doesn't race toomuch trail stuff when she does
um.
So, for instance, she said top10 finishes, like sonipi when
the ascent was there back in2023, um, when it was a

(55:54):
selection race for worlds rightlike she can mix it up with the
best of them and I think she'sonly probably improved on the
uphill, like for being avertical schemo athlete.
Um, ginormous engine, like justvery talented.
Lives at leadville, like youknow, it's not going to be a
problem being above 10 000 feetfor someone like her, so I would
not be surprised, as here, mixit up in the top five, top ten
maybe.
Um, another name I see on hereis janelle links.

(56:17):
Did compete at cirque series, abased, and she's always a
tricky one for me.
So like I didn't recruit herfor this, like for like the
elites I she applied and like Isaid I accepted it because I
really wanted to see her likemix it up.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
She's had some awesome years.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Dude, she's so talented, such a good climber,
but at the same time, I don'tknow if you know, she's very
picky and choosy about what sheraces.
Like she'll be signed up forstuff in the nutshell, so I
really don't know.
And like she'll be signed upfor stuff in the nutshell, right
.
So I I really don't know.
And that's no like shade toanyone, it's just that, like I,
it's hard for me to know whereyou're.
If you're going to mix it up,if you're not gonna, you know,
um, one name I do really want tothrow out there sophie wright.

(56:56):
Uh, trail team elite alaskanathlete yes, I was going to
mention her um, yeah, always avery you know, extremely
talented, now living in coloradoand boulder.
So she's got that altitudeadaptation.
Um, seems like she's had acouple of tough races this year.
She had a tough race at Sunapeeand she also had a tough race,
um, at Cirque a basin.
So it's going to be interestingto see like where um, you know

(57:17):
where that kind of goes and ifshe's able to mix it up there.
Um, I think, if she races smart, I think she'll have a, you
know, a fantastic day forherself.
Another couple of notables thatare not going to be racing or
another notable that won't beracing is going to be.
I think his name is already offthe list.
Benjamin Townsend is a notableabsence.
I think he's getting ready forthe Skyrunner U23 World Series

(57:40):
final that's going to be inOctober and he's raced a ton
this year, so I think he's goingto.
I think Benjamin's reallyintelligent in this and, like he
, he wants to win this race oneday and wants to compete on the
podium one day, and you know heknows himself.
If he's not feeling like readyto go, then you know it's smart
to rest and, you know, take sometime off.
So is.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
did we talk about the , uh, the male, um peak runner
from Kenya?

Speaker 3 (58:07):
No, Do you want to bring that one in there?
This is a big question mark forme.
I don't know.
It's just this Ethiopian peakrunner.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Well, this one is Kenya.
Right, there's a Kenyan one inthere.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
No, Are you talking about for the Ascent or Marathon
?

Speaker 4 (58:23):
The.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Ascent.
I'm sorry, let me see what wegot in here.
Peak runner for the ascent.
I'm sorry, uh, let me see whatwe got in here, peak runner for
the ascent, it's um yeah, I seeit now on there too.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
It's interesting.
I didn't approve this.
I have no idea who this is.
We often get a, a kenya, kenyanrunner trying the trying pike's
peak.
Sometimes they do great andsometimes they don't finish my
question is is why is this?

Speaker 3 (58:50):
uh and I just have to ask this as a member of the
organization like I don't knowwhy this is a anonymous.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I didn't know you could sign up as anonymous, you
can sign up as anonymous, whichwhich makes it's not a
competitive entry, right?
No, it's a competitive entry onboth sides.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
On the both of them.
Uh, one is for uh, I shouldknow.
This one's an Ethiopian, 35 to39 year old male and one is a
Kenyan, 35 to 39 year old male.
One for the marathon, One forthese.
I have no idea who this is.
I have to be honest, I onlyseen, I only get them as names
and you can kind of see likeokay you obviously on the

(59:30):
competitive applications, likeyou like.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
All right, what is your?
What are your achievements?
What have you done?
Why do you want to run thisblah blah, blah?
Yeah, I.
So when they actually go signup, you have the option to sign
up anonymously.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Well, there you go, this is.
Uh, this is an interesting one.
I have no idea who this is.
I so you say every now and then, more than often, we get um
it's not.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
it's not unusual to have, because there's groups of
Kenyan.
That train here Kenyan runnerswho train here or do a lot of
road racing here, and they seethat there's prize money at the
Pikes Peak races, and so theythink, well, maybe I'll try that
.
And sometimes it works out.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
I think it's cool man .
It's always funny to me to seeguys Less gals.
I see I see more dudes showingup in like road shoes that run
this race.
Like uh, george foster, uh,shout out.
George foster, legend uh, buddyof mine.
He raced this race in 2020.
Last year, um, a british fellow, he was one of the few people
that started in uh when he racedthe first time, I think it was

(01:00:25):
like I forget what year it wasstarted like way back in like a
second wave or third wave andlike still managed to get
himself in the top 10 like ohwow, I didn't know about that
dude's a legend anyway he waswearing yeah, go ahead he was
wearing a modified pair of hokeyhoka cielos that were like cut
down and had vibram outsoles onthem.

(01:00:46):
they were like he actually hadthem like shaved down so like
some of the foam was off.
It was really neat.
I've never seen like a moddedpair of shoes like this before
and he said they just had shitstability.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
but you know, on the ascent, like for the ascent it
probably doesn't matter, yeah,so pretty interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
Probably don't really need trail shoes for the ascent
.
No no, you might be better offin certain road shoes, I don't
know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
Yeah Well, I mean, yeah, there are.
You'd probably be faster withlighter shoes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Yeah, you never know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
But not on the marathon.
I don't see how you can do iton the marathon.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
No, you would die.
You would die.
It would not be good.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Not be good, not be good.
You could win that other prizeof most bloodiest person.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yes, yeah, you beat alley for most stitches received
at a marathon what was the um?

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
yeah, maybe that's a topic for another conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Let's get into it.
We're talking all things PikesPeak.
No, it's not Pikes Peak.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
That's what it was oh you know what, yeah, uh-huh.
Okay, it was.
Yeah, we'll just move on, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
No problem, no problem, All right.
Do you want to get into picksor is there any more topics that
you want to discuss?

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Yeah, we can get in picks for the Ascent.
Okay, are we just going to dotop three?
Yeah, that's fine, I'm downwith top three, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I'll let you go.
Let's start with the womenLadies first.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
We'll do women first and then men.
Yeah, I think Rena Schwartz shewas my pick for first and Andy
Cornish and then Alicia AliciaVarga.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Okay, I like it.
I like it, I'm going to go, Ido.
I think Rena Schwartz istalented enough and probably
will win this race.
I think that's um.
I think the only person thatcan really push her if she has a
great day might be Alicia Vargo, or, if she shows up, is going
to be anime Flynn.
Like I said some things thatare unsure there, so I'm not

(01:02:58):
really sure if she's racing.
Um, I'm going to go, renoSchwartz.
One, I'm going to go to AndyCornish.
Um, and three, I'm going to goSarah Carter, and I think we
have yeah, I think that's ourpodium for the women.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
I think if the Janelle links that we had a few
years ago shows up, if she'sable to get back healthy, that
she could be a factor too.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Absolutely, no, definitely a factor.
I see Annie Dubie as well, gwenRudy, janelle, sophie, um and
Alicia uh, alicia um Virgo, allcompeting for that top 10 spot.
I think, I don't know, I thisis, to me, is going to be the
most interesting race in theentire, like the race within the
race is going to be the women'sfield of the ascent.
I think that, to me, justbecause there's yes, I think

(01:03:42):
Rena will set herself up as aclear number one, but I think
that two through ten spot, Ithink, is going to be up for
grabs this year.
Um, and you know, andy's hadgreat races.
I've, you know, seen her race.
I think I actually have racedher.
It's it might have been acirque series.
She's very talented, she's verygood.
Um, there's a few ladies inhere that like, really stand out
to me and I think sarah carterhas had enough international

(01:04:04):
experience to, with experiencewise, I think she it just comes
down to are you, how tired areyou?
You know, raised OCC raceseries and all raised a lot of
races this year.
So if she's fresh, um, freshand rested, I think Sarah Carter
could have an absolutely likelights out day here.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Um, I think it's wide open and there's an opportunity
for someone we have never heardof to come through, and this is
the kind of race that presentsthat opportunity.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
So if you're ready for a high altitude hill climb,
you can make.
You can make an impact, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Okay, um, let's go for the men.
I'll let you uh go first on themen.
Okay, let's go for the men.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
I'll let you go first on the men.
You know, I think Seth is good,seth D'Amore is going to win
and I've got Kieran Ney secondand I've got Evans Kabet third.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Do you really Okay we ?

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
got a completely different.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
I got Brian Whitfield fourth Okay, all right, some
shade of Whitfield Brian has anincredible 2-14 time.
This is a hard one for me, soI'm gonna go.
I'm going first.
Brian whitfield.
Uh, I think brian whitfieldgets the day he deserves.
Dude his broken arrow.
It sucks because he's got thesecond or no, so I'm sorry.

(01:05:20):
He's got the seventh fastesttime on the broken arrow 46k
course.
Wow, like brian when he shootswas that, Like Brian when he
shoots Was that this year yeah.
Okay, when he shoots, he doesnot miss man and I think he's.
And I'm not going to speak forhim, I just know if it were me,
brian was probably and I don'tknow, this is not insider
information, I don't know howreal this is, but if I had to

(01:05:43):
guess, brian was probably thefirst man left off the marathon
team for Worlds.
So I would imagine that thatprobably lights a little bit of
a fire, a little chip on theshoulder.
He's had some really good raceshere, dude Brian, when he
shoots, when he so Brian, onething I really appreciate and
like about him is he likeprojects, it Like when he goes
to do something he gives it 110%if it's his A race and he

(01:06:06):
usually does not miss.
So, that said, he told mepersonally he pushed on the ups
at Cirque Series A Basin, didn'treally try on the descent and
still got fifth place in a supercompetitive race.
Brian's fit.
So I'm going to go.
Brian won In second place.
I'm going to go Mika, and thereason I'm gonna say mika is

(01:06:27):
because he he only raised oncethis year.
He just came back from injury,from knee injury, uh, he's been
trying to rehab for a while now.
Um, he's an interesting personand I'll say is that like he's
one of those mental, like he heuh mind over matter kind of
people, like he's justgenetically very fit and works
extremely hard but like gets fitin the craziest of ways,

(01:06:49):
working the hardest, likesometimes it's swimming,
sometimes it's running,sometimes it's other ways.
So you got to remember too,mika got beat very narrowly last
year by Seth and if I were MikaI would every fiber of my being
would not want to let Seth beatme again.
And I think it's also thisexcitement and stoke you know to
be back and be lining upamongst your peers.

(01:07:11):
We'll see.
I mean, this is a completelydifferent race.
This isn't the rut VK where hejust got second behind Cam.
But he did beat Jackson, who'san amazing climber.
He beat a lot of really goodclimbers on Friday.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
Yeah, that's a totally different race, though
it is totally different race,though it is a totally different
race, so I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
We'll see, you know.
Like I said, just throwing itout there.
And third, I'm going to go.
Seth DeMoore very closelyfollowed by Zach Erickson, who
could potentially take any oneof those spots.
I also think Kieran Nae,Jarrett Gillingham and Mark
Schlemberger are right in themix, um followed very closely by
nick tusa.
I think those are.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
you're going to be in the mix for your top man, I
think it is a wide open men'srace as well, I think.
And joe demore I just raisedjoe demore yeah, he's super fit
man.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
He spanked my ass cirque series grand target and
jeff kuno.
I can't believe I'm missingjeff.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I this is another interestingrace to me, like as to how it's
going to fall off.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Uh, one of the one of the great things about pikes is
things change so much abovetree line and guys who were
doing well at bar camp andlooked like they were doing
really strong, they justsometimes they just fall apart.
Yeah, like they're doing reallystrong, they just sometimes

(01:08:30):
they just fall apart.
Yeah, and if we could get awindow into that somehow, that
that is something that I wouldlike to, you know, see more of.
Somehow can we get morecoverage of what happens above,
even with more timing strips?
Yeah, um, because we had thetiming strip at a frame and then
with a mile, some years we haveit with a mile to go, but, um,

(01:08:51):
wow, you know it would be cool,man.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
This is like I wonder if I could get ace and me and
ace go up there.
So I was supposed to race thisweekend.
I'm supposed to go to theCirque series Uh, what do you
call it?
Uh, crystal, but I'm literallyfighting off the sickness right
now that I'm not.
I don't think I'm we're good uh.
But, that said, like it would bereally cool on sunday to be
there for the marathon, takemaybe the train up or something

(01:09:14):
and then run down and like kindof run down to like a frame and
like capture what's going on inthat moment, because like right,
right above a frame, what's itthat you're like yeah, that's
when you do you see, like I mean, like how cool would it have
been to see like francescoliterally on the side of the
trail saying I'm dead, justleave me here like I'm dying,
and then come back from the like, resurrect himself from the

(01:09:35):
dead and like pass a bunch ofpeople for a great finish, like
I think those are the types ofstories that would be really fun
to follow, like the people likeliterally falling apart, um
yeah and yeah people, peoplejust start walking, and
sometimes they just barely walk.
Yeah, zombies, zombies.
Um, all right, what do youthink?
Do you think we got everythingfor the ascent?

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
Yeah, I think we covered a lot of people there.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
I don't have a ton for the marathon just because
I'm like I like.
I just don't have much herebecause we had so many people
drop down to the ascent Um, thatI feel like our marathon
field's pretty decimated.
Like if Adrian McDonald wasstill in the race I'd say, all
right, we got something to talkabout.
You know, same with Hawk call,but with both of them in a
really limited women's field.

(01:10:17):
I, I mean, I have to be honestwith you, like I I'll make the
call, like I don't.
I think I say I think John andChristina will both get their
fourth one Right.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
I think John and Christina will both get their
fourth wins Right, right anddeservedly so.
They would probably win almostno matter who showed up.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
And deservedly so.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
Here's my question how many wins do you have to get
in this race in the modern erato get your face on, like your
face on mount rushmore of thisrace?

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
get, your get a little plaque on pike's peak
yeah or, or, uh, you know, tobecome the next matt carpenter
well, I think there's no one.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
I mean matt carpenter , that's like you know.
You'd have to like be a.
You'd have to be like agenerational talent or like just
stupidly talented, and thenhave to like live here and eat,
have to be like a generationaltalent or like just stupidly
talented and then have to likelive here and eat, breathe and
sleep this one specific race.
Like you'd have to have likealmost like christian allen
level talent and then have tolike live in manitou and just
like be obsessed with it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
You know um yeah, it might happen, it could we might
get another one, we'll say Imean, we have so many top pros
here already, so that's true,that's true and jonathan is one
of them, and christina isanother I agree, I agree, both
extremely talented athletes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Um, and you know, I think john to get his fourth, I
think that would be, uh, I don'tknow, I think that's an extra,
that's a super special.
I think for christina it'sreally special as well, having
taken a few years off and comingback, but john to get four in a
row, if he was able to do that,that's that's very special, you
know yeah, especially afterlast year, where he it was not

(01:11:53):
the race that he was trainingfor yeah, it's true.
Yeah, just fittest on the daybut he had a good btmr oh yeah,
john's a monster, he's, he's ascary man.
Um yeah, all right, I thinkthat's all I got.

Speaker 4 (01:12:07):
Okay, got anything else to add?
No, I'm looking forward to uhSaturday.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Awesome, mark.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you, as always, forcoming on.
I think we talked about a lotof really good stuff here, and
this is a good uh.
It's a very special hour of myof my year with you, so thank
you.