June 19, 2025 • 23 mins
Sam Lewis brings a wealth of experience to the starting line of the Broken Arrow 46K, having represented Team USA three times internationally and competed in the 23K version of this iconic mountain race twice before. In this compelling conversation, she shares the meticulous preparation that has her feeling "in the best shape of my life" heading into one of the season's most competitive events.
Training from her temporary base in Boulder, Colorado has given Lewis the mountain-specific preparation needed for Broken Arrow's demanding terrain. Working with long-time coach Travis Fleck, she's compiled her highest-ever training volume while maintaining the physical health that's become the hallmark of their eight-year partnership. "He's always thinking about what I'm doing not just today, but five years from now," Lewis explains, highlighting the sustainable approach that's kept her performing at an elite level.
Lewis reveals her tactical approach to the challenging two-loop course, describing herself as a hunter who patiently waits to strike on the second loop. "I like to hunt down my prey," she says with understated confidence, drawing on lessons learned from aggressive European race starts that left her frustrated. This balanced strategy reflects both physical preparation and philosophical grounding—Lewis holds a PhD in philosophy of sport and embraces the ancient Greek concept of "arete" (pursuing personal excellence) rather than fixating on placements.
The conversation delves into equipment choices, including On's new Cloud Ultra Pro trail shoe that Lewis describes as "game-changing," nutrition strategies for mountain ultras, and the profound meaning she finds in representing her country. "Being on Team USA is one of the greatest honors of my life," she reflects, while maintaining perspective about the exceptional depth of American talent.
Most compelling are Lewis's insights on mental resilience, drawn from races like the 2023 Verbier Marathon where she battled severe stomach issues yet finished. "It's not if it's going to happen in these ultra races, it's when," she notes about inevitable low points. This hard-earned wisdom, combined with her physical preparation and measured approach, makes Lewis a formidable competitor at Broken Arrow and beyond as she looks toward OCC at UTMB later this summer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, James Lariello,bringing you another Baroquin
Arrow 46k preview episode, thisone with Miss Samantha Lewis.
Super excited to catch up withSam.
If you're not familiar withthat name, you absolutely should
be.
Sam was on the short courseTeam USA in Chiang Mai for Team
USA in 2022.
(00:21):
She's also got a ton ofexperience at this race, having
raced back in 2022 and 2023,just doing the one lap for the
23K and taking top 20 finishesin both results.
Super stoked to catch up withSam, learn a little bit more
about her race, about her andjust the plans for what she's
got planned for race day.
So, wishing her the absolutebest of luck and I hope you guys
(00:42):
enjoy this one Without furtherado, none other than Miss Sam
Lewis.
Sam Lewis, welcome to the SteepStuff Podcast.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Good, how are you?
I'm doing?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
great, super excited to have a chat.
Obviously, we're doing some ofthese Broken Arrow pre-race
interviews and stuff like thatand it's kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's always nice to meet new faces and folks that I
haven't had on the podcast yet.
So you were definitely one ofthem and someone was very stoked
to have a chat with.
Yeah, I know.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, I know Appreciate it.
So what's the stoke level forBroken Arrow?
We're going to be running 2laps around Palisades pretty
soon.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Dude, I'm so stoked it's going to be absolutely
insane.
It's, um I mean, if you've beenout to the broken arrow um
event before like it's a versionof UTMB, right Like the
American version.
So it's just, the excitementlevel is insane.
The fields are out of thisworld, which is just so cool and
um, what better place to likeline up with your friends and
(01:41):
like just have a day out there.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
It's a little crazy this year.
Like it's nuts, that it's youknow.
We have our selection races forteam USA and then we've got the
golden trail series.
Like it's like all eyes arekind of on on these, on like the
weekend this year.
So it's going to be crazy.
I, in fact I just got someinformation that, uh, we'll see
what happens with the VK,happens with the VK, but like
(02:04):
it's supposed to be a hundredmile winds at the top of the VK
course on on Friday.
So shit's getting wild, yeah,it's going to be it's going to
be a fun weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, I mean a couple of years ago they had to change
the 23 K course Um, cause onSunday the winds were just too
um too sketchy up top, so thatdoes happen.
And then we got to glissadedown the snow a couple of years
ago, so they made it work and itwas great, but yeah, yeah, they
do.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean fantastic job, fantastic job.
Um, all right.
So getting into the, gettinginto the race a little bit, or
getting into your block andtraining and things like that,
like how has it been going?
How do you feel going into thisrace?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, I'm super excited.
Um, I've been in Boulder thelast month training, um, this is
home, so it was just reallynice to just be back with the
family but then also to get umto be here in the mountains.
Uh, I live in Moscow, Idaho,and we do have um I mean,
Idaho's got an amazing trailsystem.
I've done actually a very poorjob of exploring Idaho.
Um, but Moscow itself has likea local mountain.
(02:55):
That's great that it's rightthere and it gets up to 5,000
feet.
But, um, I think it was justnice to be in Boulder to have a
little bit more um specificityin my training and, um, I don't
know, and it's like fun to justdo some different exploring and
everything, but feeling reallygood.
Um, the volume and that I putin over this last, like all
spring, is the most I probablyever have I've ever done.
(03:18):
And um, I've been healthy.
I had like a little minor.
I pulled my hammy on a run atthe end of April.
I just super woman did a coupleof times and um, just finding
my trail legs again apparentlyand uh, so I had to take a week
off from that, but uh, reboundedreally nicely and everything's
been pretty smooth since.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Oh, I love to hear it .
It's always fun to hear, likewhen folks are just like healthy
going through.
And you know, I feel like itwas a little bit weird,
especially more on the front.
I'm in Colorado Springs, solike on the front range we had
an like abnormally warm, kind oflike summer, sorry, abnormally
warm winter.
So there was a lot of yearround training for people and I
saw a lot of people get injured,including myself, and I was
like man, I got a little greedy.
So it's always nice to seefolks like have like successful
(03:58):
builds and go into these raceslike healthy, especially now
that you know the season's here.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So yeah, and I I work with um.
My coach is Travis Fleck, who'sthe director of cross country
and track and field at ColoradoMacy university.
He was at university of Idahothe last 10 years and um, he was
actually my coach at Oregonstate, so we go way back.
But um, he definitely like wework super well together and the
approach has been.
I mean, there's um longevity intheir approach, so we've been
(04:23):
working together now for eightyears and I think he's just
really smart.
He's always thinking about whatI'm doing, not just like today,
but five years from now andeverything.
So, thankfully, I'm thehealthiest I've ever been since
working with him, so that's alsoexciting.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I love to hear it.
Love to hear it.
I want to pivot a little bit.
You're, I think, other thanDavid Norris.
You might be the only onathlete that I've had on the pod
.
Yeah, Tell me about this newshoe that they just dropped.
It's like the cloud ultrasomething or other.
It's like the new trail supershoe.
Maybe talk about that for alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, it's um, the cloud ultra pro.
It's insane.
Um, I've been running in it nowfor, I think, a couple years.
I think I first got it at UTMBa couple years ago, but I think
it's going to change the game.
If I'm going to be honest likeum, I mean to be fair, I haven't
run in a lot of the other likeuh super shoes from the
different brands, but it'spretty incredible.
(05:12):
The shoe was designedspecifically like with UTMB in
mind, which is super cool.
Um, it like you can withbetween the foam and the plate
and everything like.
It's definitely a little bit ofan adjustment Cause I think the
stack height is like higher andso if it's really um techie
terrain like, I think there's anaspect of like you just have to
(05:33):
learn how to run in the shoe alittle bit.
Um, sometimes your feet go fora ride that you're not expecting
, but once you kind of like havethat learning period, it's um,
like it's the only shoe I wantto race in, the only shoe I want
to run in.
Um, especially when you get tolike sections and courses that
are super like flowy flat.
You hit the asphalt and youknow, and sometimes in those
(05:55):
points in the races like you'rejust dead, but there's so much
rebound in those shoes Like um,it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's amazing to hear.
I'm excited to see them.
I haven't like like seen one inperson yet.
So excited to see one in thewild and see what they're all
about.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, pretty cool, yeah yeah.
No it's going to be.
It's me Perfect for brokenarrow and yeah, it's gonna be
awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's what I was going to ask you.
I would assume that sounds likeit's going to be the race issue
.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah no, for that's literally the only thing
I use.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So yeah, cool, cool Cool.
Let's get into course specificstuff.
I know you've taken a couple oflaps around around broken arrow
before um, based off of myresearch, you've only done the
23 K.
Is that right before?
Yeah, so this will be the first, first two, lap one.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Okay, I'm doing 36 K.
Yeah, how do you feel about?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
that I wanted more.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I just wanted to do more.
One lap wasn't enough anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
More suffering, right .
More suffering the better.
Yeah, it's interesting thesetwo-loop courses.
I know you've gottenTechnically, you've done two
loops before, Because what wasit?
2023, it was a two-loop becauseof the weather, right.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh, that is correct.
Yes, so we didn't go up high,so you're right.
So I have done two loops.
I'm a version of two loops.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
In theory.
The only reason I ask isbecause these two loop courses
get a little weird right.
It's almost like there's morestrategy involved, where the
person leading the first loopmight not be the person winning
the race overall, like sometimesthere's epic blow-ups occur and
broken arrow is kind of likesynonymous with epic blow-ups
and a lot of those well, andwhen you add like a selection
race to it and just all the hypearound it, like you never know
(07:23):
what's gonna happen I.
I fully predict blow-ups.
It's gonna be especially like Idon't know.
After commentating on sunip, Iwas like damn, these people go
out so hard and like it's, it'sjust crazy, like it's just
stupidly fast.
Now, like up front at theseraces, do you have any like
what's your strategy?
Are you gonna like hang back onthe first lap and then pick
people off?
Are you super, super aggressiveLike I've never?
(07:44):
I don't know your racingstrategy.
So, or how you erase somepeople are very aggressive and
some people kind of hang back.
Like what do you like to do?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, um, I like to hunt down my prey, Um, so I want
to definitely save some forthat second lap, but I think and
like you said, uh, broken arrowis, um, notorious for big
blowups, and because it's aselection race and there's just
a lot of hype, I think that thatcould be a big factor.
I think the biggest thing that Iwant to make sure that I do is
run my own race, and I thinksometimes, when there's like you
(08:14):
know, it's exciting, the nervesare probably high People tend
to maybe start making decisionsthat aren't based on their own,
like races, and that totallymakes sense, based on the
environment.
So I'm just going to try to I'mvery honest with my effort in
that first lap, trying to run myown race and then just make
sure I have enough on thatsecond lap, because, uh, it's
(08:34):
really fun running people down,um, and I think that that's, um,
that second lap, that secondclimb, is going to be.
You have some in you.
It's going to be.
You can make up a lot of timeon.
That is my, is my thought.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think it's honestly , I think it's such a smart
approach because, like, I thinkif you erase it aggressively
from the gun, it's like almostlike a weird balance right, like
if you don't put yourself inthe race, then you're going to,
you're not going to findyourself in the race, but also
it's like putting yourself justenough in the race to where
you're not over your, your,you're not pushing too hard, but
also like kind of hanging backenough, so when those blowups
ahead of you occur, you can justpick those people off.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So it's, it's that weird, it's a fine little dance,
well, and it's hard now too,because these races are so
competitive and they are, theystart so fast and like I've been
wrestling with like I don'twant to watch the race, like run
away from me, right, becauselike sometimes if you're not in
it then and then you never getin it.
So I've definitely kind ofwrestled with that.
But, um, yeah, I've justdecided that at the end of the
day, like I kind of have takensome more aggressive approaches
in some races in Europe over thelast couple of years and I got
(09:38):
frustrated throughout the racejust because it was I went out
too aggressive and realized,like you know, I just kind of a
little bit, and so I think, justfor me to have like to pursue
my best on the day, I need torun within myself and be ready
for some fun on that second lap.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So, yeah, I think that's super smart, definitely
the way to go.
It's funny.
I was just thinking about, like, have you ever raced a Cirque
series race?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
It's funny.
Like those, I feel like thosetypes of races I did a bunch of
them last year like, taught mehow to race in a lot of ways,
whereas, like, you have to putyourself in the race, if not, it
will get away from you.
Yeah, and I was like oh, maybelike a putting too much of that
into a 50 K might cause blowups.
I don't know like too much ofthat Um, like that
aggressiveness.
I don't know Um, I don't knowwhere I'm going.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, it's like five hours versus an hour, right,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Um, what's the?
So it's going to be kind of acool day, from at least what the
weather forecast is pointing to.
Now, like, what's the nutritionstrategy going to be for you?
Do you and also do you adjustyour nutrition for cool versus
hot?
Like, how do you approach that?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I would say I'm still like in the big learning
phase with nutrition, cause lastyear was the first year, um
that I kind of did my my my toesinto like the 50 realm.
So I am still on that journeyof figuring out nutrition.
But I so I think the biggestdifference that I make between
like um cooler versus warmerclimates is just like how much
I'm like drinking.
(10:59):
I wouldn't say that I drinklike a ton of water to begin
with, but if it's warm Idefinitely do so.
Um, I won't change thenutrition plan as a result of it
being colder.
I just don't anticipatedrinking as much water Um, so
I'm still gonna.
I think I'm still start withtwo bottle or like two flasks um
(11:20):
at the beginning of the race,but I might only be changing out
one halfway Um, I'll have theextra one there just in case.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Smart.
Are you more of a belt personor a vest person?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Vest.
Well, I love like on's best isnice and like snug and um just
become one with the vest.
But I like um I used to uselike the naked belt and on has
their own belt.
But I just cannot figure out.
I'm just not, I don't know.
For whatever reason it doesn'twork.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Interesting.
No, that's interesting.
I I didn't.
You know, I'm usually like abelt person.
I've never I like, I don't know.
If I feel like I don't likebeing constricted, it's the
constriction part, I don't knowIn a vest that kind of no
totally.
But no, I mean, I think it's asmart way to go because you
could just carry literallyeverything.
(12:08):
Um, it's just I don't know, areyou going to be crewed by
anybody, are you just getting,or is it going to be just a solo
effort?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, so I'll have.
Um, my parents are coming withme, which is like they're my
cheerleaders and absolutely loveit.
They travel all over the worldwith me, so super lucky on that
front.
Um, and then my auntie mate,meg McKenzie, is going to be
there as well.
I mean on crew, but Meg's goingto help as well, so Meg and my
parents will be at halfway.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Oh my God, super cool , super cool.
I couldn't think of a better.
Yeah, it's a cool, cool way togo.
Um, all right, I got to ask thebig question what's the, what's
the expectation, like?
What do you want to happen outof this race?
Is it more selection for teamMSA?
Are you thinking more aboutpodium, like?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
or chasing your best day, like, how do you approach
this?
Or chasing your best day Like,how do you approach this?
Um, yeah, so I think thebiggest thing for me is like, um
, and I I work with a mentalperformance coach, shannon
Thompson, so, like, expectationsis something that I think have
honestly only gotten in my wayin the past, and so the way that
I like to view all my races isthat, especially now, cause the
fields are so deep and, um,everyone is just so amazing, so
(13:12):
it's a super cool experience tobe able to race, like against
the best in the world all thetime.
Um, but I think it's justsaying it's pursuing my best on
the day and see how I, you knowhow everything shakes out.
I do think that I'm in probably,arguably, the best shape of my
life.
I can't control what anyoneelse is going to do on the day.
I can only like hope to, likegive my best effort and if
(13:32):
that's winning to 10th, to 15th,whatever that is, if I crossed
the line, knowing that I dideverything that I could on the
day and pursued um the ancientGreeks use this term, which is
to pursue one's personalexcellence, and so, um, that's
something in like my uh PhDstudies in the philosophy of
sport is a term we use a lot,and so if I can pursue like my
(13:55):
arete, then I've done what Ineed to do on the day.
So, obviously, like, top threeis worlds and then their resume
spots after that and I'd love to, you know, be in contention and
we'll just again, we'll justsee how it all kind of shakes
out.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Wow, it's an amazing answer and I'm totally stealing
that Arete phrase.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
You're not stealing it from me, you're stealing it
from the ancient Greeks.
So we're good, that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
We're good, we're good.
Oh, man, let me ask you this Ifit is the day that you want it
to be and you have an amazingday out there, what would it
mean for you to make Team USA oh?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Oh, I mean, I've um.
So I've been on team USA threetimes now Um, the 2019 world
mountain running championships,uh, the 2019 NACAC mountain
running championships, and thenthe 2022, um world and trail
mountain running championships.
Being on team USA is like oneof the greatest honors of my
life.
Um, there is nothing quite likewearing your country's like
(14:50):
uniform and being able to be apart of that team, so it would
be incredible.
I'm always grateful for anopportunity to wear a Team USA
jersey.
I know that, regardless of whomakes that team, it is going to
be one hell of a team Like.
It's going to be absolutelyincredible, and I think that
there's a lot of peace inknowing that whoever makes the
team is just going to absolutelycrush it at Worlds, and that's
(15:11):
super cool.
And to even be get to be a partof that on Saturday, whether or
not I'm on that team um, I'mjust super excited for that
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I love it.
Is there any?
I mean this might be a hardquestion to ask and maybe a
little redundant, but is thereany like experience Cause you
are so experienced like man youmight have one of the best
resumes from Team USA going intothis 46K, which is kind of
awesome.
What experience do you thinkyou could pull on to have the
day you want?
I know it's kind of a hardquestion.
(15:41):
I didn't want to throw you thatone, but I don't know.
It's kind of crazy that you'vecompeted at the highest level,
the highest level of our sports.
There's got to be somethingthere.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh yeah, and I mean I can think of oh man, there's.
I learned so many things fromso many different races, I think
in these granted, I know thatthe broken arrow 46K is not
quite an ultra, but thisultra-esque racing a lot of
things can happen and I've hadsome really rough races.
(16:12):
I was in the um in 2023,.
I was in the Verbier marathon.
It was a UTMB qualifier and, um, I just started projectile
vomiting at like 12 miles in andI couldn't stop and so like I
was like trying to still eat anddrink because I was like, holy
shit, I still have 18 miles togo and or whatever it was.
(16:33):
Um, and I was in a really roughplace and somehow still
finished the race.
And I was in a really roughplace and somehow still finished
the race and I was in a lowspot for a really long time.
I remember coming up to thelast aid station with like six
miles to go, and I see my momand she doesn't know how it's
going and I'm like I'm nothaving any fun, and then I
proceeded to just projectilevomit in front of her, like over
(16:56):
the bridge crossing.
Basically, the point being is Ihit some really low points in
races and I think the biggestthing I've learned is it's not
if it's going to happen in theseultra races, it's when it's
going to happen.
I think we all hit those and Ithink it's just whether we can
work through them.
So I'm going to definitely leanon those experiences I've had
(17:16):
and just knowing that like it'snever going to go the way, the
way that you exactly expect itto go.
But that doesn't mean it can'tbe its own beautiful experience
and um, yeah, I don't know.
I'm just again just superexcited for the opportunity.
Um, and I think a lot of ultrasare just, yeah, it's about
troubleshooting as you're goingand whether or not you can
(17:39):
process through that.
So, like I've been in races, Iremember man in the Moab
marathon in 2021, I didn't feelgood until mile 19.
So, yeah, it was super far inand I remember that race started
and everyone got out so fastand I'm like, do they know we're
running a marathon?
(17:59):
And um, but you know, I justworked like I think halfway I
was like maybe in 10th and then,like I worked my way up and the
only person then I think likemile 19, who's in front of me,
was Allie Mack and I was like ohshit and so, and then I felt
good for the next 5k and thenfelt like shit, but like, um,
yeah, I don't know, it's gonnabe fun and it's uh, it'll be an
(18:21):
adventure regardless yeah, no,not no the doubt.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I love to hear all some of these like race stories.
That's good stuff, la max, goodfriend of mine.
So it's always fun to hear uhlike war stories from these
races.
What else, uh, what do you gotplanned for the rest of the
season?
What else you doing besides the46k?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
yeah, so I am, um, I'm pacing aaron clark at states
, so I'm so, so excited.
Um, I've actually never been tostates in person before.
I've always watched the livestream, so to be able to
experience that in person isgoing to be amazing.
And then to help a friend whileyou know, while we're at it
like I can't think of anythingbetter um, and on is sponsoring
trail con, so it'll be reallycool to just be there for the
(18:59):
whole week, and so we'll have,yeah, pacing Aaron I'm not sure
exactly if I'm doing like the 16or 18 mile leg, uh for her and
then I, um, I have OCC at theend of August.
I probably won't actually raceafter in between um, broken
arrow and OCC, just because I,um, I work at a running camp and
(19:21):
this steam mountain runningcamp in Oregon, which is the
middle two weeks of July, and sowe have like a fun camp race up
there that I do each week.
But, um, with just some of thedifferent travel I have going on
, I probably won't race and justget in some really good
training up in the mountains andum, yeah, so it's going to be
be, it's gonna be super fun,like once, once I leave tomorrow
(19:42):
.
The summer just doesn't stop andI'll be in chamonix from like
um july 31 through september 1st, so I'll have a full month
there.
I know I, I I told myself lastyear because I was like there
two weeks before occ and I couldjust tell like over the course
of those two weeks, just like um, again, um again, I felt like I
approached my training smart.
(20:02):
I didn't go too crazy oranything, so it's easier to do
when you're in the Alps, but Ijust could feel like my legs
adjusted to and my body adjustedto being in those mountains and
on the terrain and I was like,oh my God, like imagine if I
spent just like a little bitmore time here and how much
better I could feel.
So, um, yeah, and my whole,like all the on humans are going
to be out there, um, we're likekind of all rented out the hub,
(20:25):
um, and so it's just gonna bean on party, which will be great
.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Nice, nice, oh yeah, no, you guys have a great team
too.
I mean I've talked now to DavidNorris.
I know Jeff Colt from aprevious team Like we were on
the ultimate direction teamtogether back in the day, so
it's good people like what, andKilgore is an interesting cat.
So very, very cool team youhave there.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Uh, yeah, they're phenomenal yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Oh yeah, Big time.
I just want to say thank you somuch for coming on Um wish you
the absolute best on rate orbest of luck on race day, and
it're going to need a new packhydration solution bottle belt,
you name it.
Guess what?
(21:07):
Ultimate Direction's got youcovered, guys, I don't know if
you've been perusing on theUltimate Direction site lately,
but we've got two new vests thathave just dropped.
That's going to be theUltraVest 12 liter and the
RaceVest 6 liter, in twobeautiful colorways.
And you know what?
Guess what?
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(21:28):
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Like I said, it's summer, it'sbroken arrow week, it's crazy.
(21:51):
The vibes are high, the stokeis high.
You're going to need a new vest, You're going to need a
hydration solution.
Like I said, go to ultimatedirection.
They've got you covered 25% offwith the code steep stuff pod
and you are all set out the door.
So, guys, enjoy your week.
It's broken arrow week, gocrazy, go wild.
Guess what.
Next week is trail con, andthen we are in Western States.
This is the best few weeks ofour sport.
(22:14):
So it's wild, thank you.
What is up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, James Lariello,bringing you another Baroquin
Arrow 46k preview episode, thisone with Miss Samantha Lewis.
Super excited to catch up withSam.
If you're not familiar withthat name, you absolutely should
be.
Sam was on the short courseTeam USA in Chiang Mai for Team
USA in 2022.
(00:21):
She's also got a ton ofexperience at this race, having
raced back in 2022 and 2023,just doing the one lap for the
23K and taking top 20 finishesin both results.
Super stoked to catch up withSam, learn a little bit more
about her race, about her andjust the plans for what she's
got planned for race day.
So, wishing her the absolutebest of luck and I hope you guys
(00:42):
enjoy this one Without furtherado, none other than Miss Sam
Lewis.
Sam Lewis, welcome to the SteepStuff Podcast.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Good, how are you?
I'm doing?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
great, super excited to have a chat.
Obviously, we're doing some ofthese Broken Arrow pre-race
interviews and stuff like thatand it's kind of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's always nice to meet new faces and folks that I
haven't had on the podcast yet.
So you were definitely one ofthem and someone was very stoked
to have a chat with.
Yeah, I know.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, I know Appreciate it.
So what's the stoke level forBroken Arrow?
We're going to be running 2laps around Palisades pretty
soon.
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Dude, I'm so stoked it's going to be absolutely
insane.
It's, um I mean, if you've beenout to the broken arrow um
event before like it's a versionof UTMB, right Like the
American version.
So it's just, the excitementlevel is insane.
The fields are out of thisworld, which is just so cool and
um, what better place to likeline up with your friends and
(01:41):
like just have a day out there.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
It's a little crazy this year.
Like it's nuts, that it's youknow.
We have our selection races forteam USA and then we've got the
golden trail series.
Like it's like all eyes arekind of on on these, on like the
weekend this year.
So it's going to be crazy.
I, in fact I just got someinformation that, uh, we'll see
what happens with the VK,happens with the VK, but like
(02:04):
it's supposed to be a hundredmile winds at the top of the VK
course on on Friday.
So shit's getting wild, yeah,it's going to be it's going to
be a fun weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, I mean a couple of years ago they had to change
the 23 K course Um, cause onSunday the winds were just too
um too sketchy up top, so thatdoes happen.
And then we got to glissadedown the snow a couple of years
ago, so they made it work and itwas great, but yeah, yeah, they
do.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean fantastic job, fantastic job.
Um, all right.
So getting into the, gettinginto the race a little bit, or
getting into your block andtraining and things like that,
like how has it been going?
How do you feel going into thisrace?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, I'm super excited.
Um, I've been in Boulder thelast month training, um, this is
home, so it was just reallynice to just be back with the
family but then also to get umto be here in the mountains.
Uh, I live in Moscow, Idaho,and we do have um I mean,
Idaho's got an amazing trailsystem.
I've done actually a very poorjob of exploring Idaho.
Um, but Moscow itself has likea local mountain.
(02:55):
That's great that it's rightthere and it gets up to 5,000
feet.
But, um, I think it was justnice to be in Boulder to have a
little bit more um specificityin my training and, um, I don't
know, and it's like fun to justdo some different exploring and
everything, but feeling reallygood.
Um, the volume and that I putin over this last, like all
spring, is the most I probablyever have I've ever done.
(03:18):
And um, I've been healthy.
I had like a little minor.
I pulled my hammy on a run atthe end of April.
I just super woman did a coupleof times and um, just finding
my trail legs again apparentlyand uh, so I had to take a week
off from that, but uh, reboundedreally nicely and everything's
been pretty smooth since.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Oh, I love to hear it .
It's always fun to hear, likewhen folks are just like healthy
going through.
And you know, I feel like itwas a little bit weird,
especially more on the front.
I'm in Colorado Springs, solike on the front range we had
an like abnormally warm, kind oflike summer, sorry, abnormally
warm winter.
So there was a lot of yearround training for people and I
saw a lot of people get injured,including myself, and I was
like man, I got a little greedy.
So it's always nice to seefolks like have like successful
(03:58):
builds and go into these raceslike healthy, especially now
that you know the season's here.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So yeah, and I I work with um.
My coach is Travis Fleck, who'sthe director of cross country
and track and field at ColoradoMacy university.
He was at university of Idahothe last 10 years and um, he was
actually my coach at Oregonstate, so we go way back.
But um, he definitely like wework super well together and the
approach has been.
I mean, there's um longevity intheir approach, so we've been
(04:23):
working together now for eightyears and I think he's just
really smart.
He's always thinking about whatI'm doing, not just like today,
but five years from now andeverything.
So, thankfully, I'm thehealthiest I've ever been since
working with him, so that's alsoexciting.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I love to hear it.
Love to hear it.
I want to pivot a little bit.
You're, I think, other thanDavid Norris.
You might be the only onathlete that I've had on the pod
.
Yeah, Tell me about this newshoe that they just dropped.
It's like the cloud ultrasomething or other.
It's like the new trail supershoe.
Maybe talk about that for alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, it's um, the cloud ultra pro.
It's insane.
Um, I've been running in it nowfor, I think, a couple years.
I think I first got it at UTMBa couple years ago, but I think
it's going to change the game.
If I'm going to be honest likeum, I mean to be fair, I haven't
run in a lot of the other likeuh super shoes from the
different brands, but it'spretty incredible.
(05:12):
The shoe was designedspecifically like with UTMB in
mind, which is super cool.
Um, it like you can withbetween the foam and the plate
and everything like.
It's definitely a little bit ofan adjustment Cause I think the
stack height is like higher andso if it's really um techie
terrain like, I think there's anaspect of like you just have to
(05:33):
learn how to run in the shoe alittle bit.
Um, sometimes your feet go fora ride that you're not expecting
, but once you kind of like havethat learning period, it's um,
like it's the only shoe I wantto race in, the only shoe I want
to run in.
Um, especially when you get tolike sections and courses that
are super like flowy flat.
You hit the asphalt and youknow, and sometimes in those
(05:55):
points in the races like you'rejust dead, but there's so much
rebound in those shoes Like um,it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's amazing to hear.
I'm excited to see them.
I haven't like like seen one inperson yet.
So excited to see one in thewild and see what they're all
about.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, pretty cool, yeah yeah.
No it's going to be.
It's me Perfect for brokenarrow and yeah, it's gonna be
awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's what I was going to ask you.
I would assume that sounds likeit's going to be the race issue
.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah no, for that's literally the only thing
I use.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So yeah, cool, cool Cool.
Let's get into course specificstuff.
I know you've taken a couple oflaps around around broken arrow
before um, based off of myresearch, you've only done the
23 K.
Is that right before?
Yeah, so this will be the first, first two, lap one.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Okay, I'm doing 36 K.
Yeah, how do you feel about?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
that I wanted more.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I just wanted to do more.
One lap wasn't enough anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
More suffering, right .
More suffering the better.
Yeah, it's interesting thesetwo-loop courses.
I know you've gottenTechnically, you've done two
loops before, Because what wasit?
2023, it was a two-loop becauseof the weather, right.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh, that is correct.
Yes, so we didn't go up high,so you're right.
So I have done two loops.
I'm a version of two loops.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
In theory.
The only reason I ask isbecause these two loop courses
get a little weird right.
It's almost like there's morestrategy involved, where the
person leading the first loopmight not be the person winning
the race overall, like sometimesthere's epic blow-ups occur and
broken arrow is kind of likesynonymous with epic blow-ups
and a lot of those well, andwhen you add like a selection
race to it and just all the hypearound it, like you never know
(07:23):
what's gonna happen I.
I fully predict blow-ups.
It's gonna be especially like Idon't know.
After commentating on sunip, Iwas like damn, these people go
out so hard and like it's, it'sjust crazy, like it's just
stupidly fast.
Now, like up front at theseraces, do you have any like
what's your strategy?
Are you gonna like hang back onthe first lap and then pick
people off?
Are you super, super aggressiveLike I've never?
(07:44):
I don't know your racingstrategy.
So, or how you erase somepeople are very aggressive and
some people kind of hang back.
Like what do you like to do?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, um, I like to hunt down my prey, Um, so I want
to definitely save some forthat second lap, but I think and
like you said, uh, broken arrowis, um, notorious for big
blowups, and because it's aselection race and there's just
a lot of hype, I think that thatcould be a big factor.
I think the biggest thing that Iwant to make sure that I do is
run my own race, and I thinksometimes, when there's like you
(08:14):
know, it's exciting, the nervesare probably high People tend
to maybe start making decisionsthat aren't based on their own,
like races, and that totallymakes sense, based on the
environment.
So I'm just going to try to I'mvery honest with my effort in
that first lap, trying to run myown race and then just make
sure I have enough on thatsecond lap, because, uh, it's
(08:34):
really fun running people down,um, and I think that that's, um,
that second lap, that secondclimb, is going to be.
You have some in you.
It's going to be.
You can make up a lot of timeon.
That is my, is my thought.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think it's honestly , I think it's such a smart
approach because, like, I thinkif you erase it aggressively
from the gun, it's like almostlike a weird balance right, like
if you don't put yourself inthe race, then you're going to,
you're not going to findyourself in the race, but also
it's like putting yourself justenough in the race to where
you're not over your, your,you're not pushing too hard, but
also like kind of hanging backenough, so when those blowups
ahead of you occur, you can justpick those people off.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So it's, it's that weird, it's a fine little dance,
well, and it's hard now too,because these races are so
competitive and they are, theystart so fast and like I've been
wrestling with like I don'twant to watch the race, like run
away from me, right, becauselike sometimes if you're not in
it then and then you never getin it.
So I've definitely kind ofwrestled with that.
But, um, yeah, I've justdecided that at the end of the
day, like I kind of have takensome more aggressive approaches
in some races in Europe over thelast couple of years and I got
(09:38):
frustrated throughout the racejust because it was I went out
too aggressive and realized,like you know, I just kind of a
little bit, and so I think, justfor me to have like to pursue
my best on the day, I need torun within myself and be ready
for some fun on that second lap.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So, yeah, I think that's super smart, definitely
the way to go.
It's funny.
I was just thinking about, like, have you ever raced a Cirque
series race?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
It's funny.
Like those, I feel like thosetypes of races I did a bunch of
them last year like, taught mehow to race in a lot of ways,
whereas, like, you have to putyourself in the race, if not, it
will get away from you.
Yeah, and I was like oh, maybelike a putting too much of that
into a 50 K might cause blowups.
I don't know like too much ofthat Um, like that
aggressiveness.
I don't know Um, I don't knowwhere I'm going.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, it's like five hours versus an hour, right,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Um, what's the?
So it's going to be kind of acool day, from at least what the
weather forecast is pointing to.
Now, like, what's the nutritionstrategy going to be for you?
Do you and also do you adjustyour nutrition for cool versus
hot?
Like, how do you approach that?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I would say I'm still like in the big learning
phase with nutrition, cause lastyear was the first year, um
that I kind of did my my my toesinto like the 50 realm.
So I am still on that journeyof figuring out nutrition.
But I so I think the biggestdifference that I make between
like um cooler versus warmerclimates is just like how much
I'm like drinking.
(10:59):
I wouldn't say that I drinklike a ton of water to begin
with, but if it's warm Idefinitely do so.
Um, I won't change thenutrition plan as a result of it
being colder.
I just don't anticipatedrinking as much water Um, so
I'm still gonna.
I think I'm still start withtwo bottle or like two flasks um
(11:20):
at the beginning of the race,but I might only be changing out
one halfway Um, I'll have theextra one there just in case.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Smart.
Are you more of a belt personor a vest person?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Vest.
Well, I love like on's best isnice and like snug and um just
become one with the vest.
But I like um I used to uselike the naked belt and on has
their own belt.
But I just cannot figure out.
I'm just not, I don't know.
For whatever reason it doesn'twork.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Interesting.
No, that's interesting.
I I didn't.
You know, I'm usually like abelt person.
I've never I like, I don't know.
If I feel like I don't likebeing constricted, it's the
constriction part, I don't knowIn a vest that kind of no
totally.
But no, I mean, I think it's asmart way to go because you
could just carry literallyeverything.
(12:08):
Um, it's just I don't know, areyou going to be crewed by
anybody, are you just getting,or is it going to be just a solo
effort?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, so I'll have.
Um, my parents are coming withme, which is like they're my
cheerleaders and absolutely loveit.
They travel all over the worldwith me, so super lucky on that
front.
Um, and then my auntie mate,meg McKenzie, is going to be
there as well.
I mean on crew, but Meg's goingto help as well, so Meg and my
parents will be at halfway.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Oh my God, super cool , super cool.
I couldn't think of a better.
Yeah, it's a cool, cool way togo.
Um, all right, I got to ask thebig question what's the, what's
the expectation, like?
What do you want to happen outof this race?
Is it more selection for teamMSA?
Are you thinking more aboutpodium, like?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
or chasing your best day, like, how do you approach
this?
Or chasing your best day Like,how do you approach this?
Um, yeah, so I think thebiggest thing for me is like, um
, and I I work with a mentalperformance coach, shannon
Thompson, so, like, expectationsis something that I think have
honestly only gotten in my wayin the past, and so the way that
I like to view all my races isthat, especially now, cause the
fields are so deep and, um,everyone is just so amazing, so
(13:12):
it's a super cool experience tobe able to race, like against
the best in the world all thetime.
Um, but I think it's justsaying it's pursuing my best on
the day and see how I, you knowhow everything shakes out.
I do think that I'm in probably,arguably, the best shape of my
life.
I can't control what anyoneelse is going to do on the day.
I can only like hope to, likegive my best effort and if
(13:32):
that's winning to 10th, to 15th,whatever that is, if I crossed
the line, knowing that I dideverything that I could on the
day and pursued um the ancientGreeks use this term, which is
to pursue one's personalexcellence, and so, um, that's
something in like my uh PhDstudies in the philosophy of
sport is a term we use a lot,and so if I can pursue like my
(13:55):
arete, then I've done what Ineed to do on the day.
So, obviously, like, top threeis worlds and then their resume
spots after that and I'd love to, you know, be in contention and
we'll just again, we'll justsee how it all kind of shakes
out.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Wow, it's an amazing answer and I'm totally stealing
that Arete phrase.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
You're not stealing it from me, you're stealing it
from the ancient Greeks.
So we're good, that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
We're good, we're good.
Oh, man, let me ask you this Ifit is the day that you want it
to be and you have an amazingday out there, what would it
mean for you to make Team USA oh?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Oh, I mean, I've um.
So I've been on team USA threetimes now Um, the 2019 world
mountain running championships,uh, the 2019 NACAC mountain
running championships, and thenthe 2022, um world and trail
mountain running championships.
Being on team USA is like oneof the greatest honors of my
life.
Um, there is nothing quite likewearing your country's like
(14:50):
uniform and being able to be apart of that team, so it would
be incredible.
I'm always grateful for anopportunity to wear a Team USA
jersey.
I know that, regardless of whomakes that team, it is going to
be one hell of a team Like.
It's going to be absolutelyincredible, and I think that
there's a lot of peace inknowing that whoever makes the
team is just going to absolutelycrush it at Worlds, and that's
(15:11):
super cool.
And to even be get to be a partof that on Saturday, whether or
not I'm on that team um, I'mjust super excited for that
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I love it.
Is there any?
I mean this might be a hardquestion to ask and maybe a
little redundant, but is thereany like experience Cause you
are so experienced like man youmight have one of the best
resumes from Team USA going intothis 46K, which is kind of
awesome.
What experience do you thinkyou could pull on to have the
day you want?
I know it's kind of a hardquestion.
(15:41):
I didn't want to throw you thatone, but I don't know.
It's kind of crazy that you'vecompeted at the highest level,
the highest level of our sports.
There's got to be somethingthere.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh yeah, and I mean I can think of oh man, there's.
I learned so many things fromso many different races, I think
in these granted, I know thatthe broken arrow 46K is not
quite an ultra, but thisultra-esque racing a lot of
things can happen and I've hadsome really rough races.
(16:12):
I was in the um in 2023,.
I was in the Verbier marathon.
It was a UTMB qualifier and, um, I just started projectile
vomiting at like 12 miles in andI couldn't stop and so like I
was like trying to still eat anddrink because I was like, holy
shit, I still have 18 miles togo and or whatever it was.
(16:33):
Um, and I was in a really roughplace and somehow still
finished the race.
And I was in a really roughplace and somehow still finished
the race and I was in a lowspot for a really long time.
I remember coming up to thelast aid station with like six
miles to go, and I see my momand she doesn't know how it's
going and I'm like I'm nothaving any fun, and then I
proceeded to just projectilevomit in front of her, like over
(16:56):
the bridge crossing.
Basically, the point being is Ihit some really low points in
races and I think the biggestthing I've learned is it's not
if it's going to happen in theseultra races, it's when it's
going to happen.
I think we all hit those and Ithink it's just whether we can
work through them.
So I'm going to definitely leanon those experiences I've had
(17:16):
and just knowing that like it'snever going to go the way, the
way that you exactly expect itto go.
But that doesn't mean it can'tbe its own beautiful experience
and um, yeah, I don't know.
I'm just again just superexcited for the opportunity.
Um, and I think a lot of ultrasare just, yeah, it's about
troubleshooting as you're goingand whether or not you can
(17:39):
process through that.
So, like I've been in races, Iremember man in the Moab
marathon in 2021, I didn't feelgood until mile 19.
So, yeah, it was super far inand I remember that race started
and everyone got out so fastand I'm like, do they know we're
running a marathon?
(17:59):
And um, but you know, I justworked like I think halfway I
was like maybe in 10th and then,like I worked my way up and the
only person then I think likemile 19, who's in front of me,
was Allie Mack and I was like ohshit and so, and then I felt
good for the next 5k and thenfelt like shit, but like, um,
yeah, I don't know, it's gonnabe fun and it's uh, it'll be an
(18:21):
adventure regardless yeah, no,not no the doubt.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I love to hear all some of these like race stories.
That's good stuff, la max, goodfriend of mine.
So it's always fun to hear uhlike war stories from these
races.
What else, uh, what do you gotplanned for the rest of the
season?
What else you doing besides the46k?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
yeah, so I am, um, I'm pacing aaron clark at states
, so I'm so, so excited.
Um, I've actually never been tostates in person before.
I've always watched the livestream, so to be able to
experience that in person isgoing to be amazing.
And then to help a friend whileyou know, while we're at it
like I can't think of anythingbetter um, and on is sponsoring
trail con, so it'll be reallycool to just be there for the
(18:59):
whole week, and so we'll have,yeah, pacing Aaron I'm not sure
exactly if I'm doing like the 16or 18 mile leg, uh for her and
then I, um, I have OCC at theend of August.
I probably won't actually raceafter in between um, broken
arrow and OCC, just because I,um, I work at a running camp and
(19:21):
this steam mountain runningcamp in Oregon, which is the
middle two weeks of July, and sowe have like a fun camp race up
there that I do each week.
But, um, with just some of thedifferent travel I have going on
, I probably won't race and justget in some really good
training up in the mountains andum, yeah, so it's going to be
be, it's gonna be super fun,like once, once I leave tomorrow
(19:42):
.
The summer just doesn't stop andI'll be in chamonix from like
um july 31 through september 1st, so I'll have a full month
there.
I know I, I I told myself lastyear because I was like there
two weeks before occ and I couldjust tell like over the course
of those two weeks, just like um, again, um again, I felt like I
approached my training smart.
(20:02):
I didn't go too crazy oranything, so it's easier to do
when you're in the Alps, but Ijust could feel like my legs
adjusted to and my body adjustedto being in those mountains and
on the terrain and I was like,oh my God, like imagine if I
spent just like a little bitmore time here and how much
better I could feel.
So, um, yeah, and my whole,like all the on humans are going
to be out there, um, we're likekind of all rented out the hub,
(20:25):
um, and so it's just gonna bean on party, which will be great
.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Nice, nice, oh yeah, no, you guys have a great team
too.
I mean I've talked now to DavidNorris.
I know Jeff Colt from aprevious team Like we were on
the ultimate direction teamtogether back in the day, so
it's good people like what, andKilgore is an interesting cat.
So very, very cool team youhave there.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Uh, yeah, they're phenomenal yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Oh yeah, Big time.
I just want to say thank you somuch for coming on Um wish you
the absolute best on rate orbest of luck on race day, and
it're going to need a new packhydration solution bottle belt,
you name it.
Guess what?
(21:07):
Ultimate Direction's got youcovered, guys, I don't know if
you've been perusing on theUltimate Direction site lately,
but we've got two new vests thathave just dropped.
That's going to be theUltraVest 12 liter and the
RaceVest 6 liter, in twobeautiful colorways.
And you know what?
Guess what?
We also dropped a quiver.
Finally, the quiver is here.
The quiver is there.
Get it on the website right now.
(21:28):
Use code SteepStuffPod for 25%off.
All of these things are alreadyextremely affordably priced.
I think Ultimate Direction doesan amazing job at their pricing
to make it affordable forathletes of all economic
abilities.
And guess what?
You're going to get yourself anadditional 25% off by using
code steep stuff pod.
Like I said, it's summer, it'sbroken arrow week, it's crazy.
(21:51):
The vibes are high, the stokeis high.
You're going to need a new vest, You're going to need a
hydration solution.
Like I said, go to ultimatedirection.
They've got you covered 25% offwith the code steep stuff pod
and you are all set out the door.
So, guys, enjoy your week.
It's broken arrow week, gocrazy, go wild.
Guess what.
Next week is trail con, andthen we are in Western States.
This is the best few weeks ofour sport.
(22:14):
So it's wild, thank you.
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