September 18, 2025 • 35 mins
The mental battle against the mountain defines Pike's Peak Ascent, drawing thousands to test their limits at what's rightfully earned its reputation as "America's Ultimate Challenge." Elite trail runners reveal that beyond physical preparation, it's the psychological fortitude required that brings them back year after year.
When asked what keeps competitors returning to this grueling ascent, the answer is simple yet profound: "You're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die." This raw honesty captures why over 2,500 runners from 46 states and eight countries gather annually in Manitou Springs to push themselves toward the clouds. For veterans and newcomers alike, Pike's Peak represents something deeper than competition against others—it's a personal test against oneself.
We dive into the world of professional trail running with elite athlete Sarah, who shares insights from her remarkable season racing across Europe and the United States. From the mud-soaked technical descents of Plitzalpin Glacier Trail to the passionate fans lining OCC's course in Chamonix, Sarah offers a glimpse into the highest levels of mountain racing. Her perspective on balancing mental energy across multiple high-stakes races provides valuable wisdom: "You can only put your soul on the line so many times in a season."
The conversation highlights a fascinating contrast between European and American race atmospheres. While European events boast incredible spectator culture with fans cheering in remote mountain locations regardless of weather, American races are still developing this vibrant support system. "There's something about being 30 miles into a race and having people cheer your name that gives you a little more life," Sarah notes, suggesting that perhaps all we need is a "cowbell fund" to elevate the American trail racing experience.
Whether you're an aspiring mountain runner or simply fascinated by those who challenge themselves in extreme environments, this exploration of Pike's Peak Ascent reveals why this iconic race continues to captivate the imagination and test the limits of human endurance. Join us for an intimate look at what drives athletes to push beyond their perceived limitations when the mountain calls.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
They all start here and maketheir way towards the clouds.
It's time, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live peak.
Yeah, what's the stoke level?
Like to go race the ascent thisyear.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Oh, I'm super excited .
You know I'm definitely.
I'm in between two other hugeraces here, so I'm just you know
I'm excited to go do somethinglocal for the first time.
Actually, ever since I kind ofhopped into the trail world, I
haven't done anything in statein quite a while, so looking
forward to doing such an iconichistorical race.
That's also so close to where Iam, so I've been loving all of
the climbing this season, not somuch the descending, so very
(02:36):
excited to be doing kind of myfavorite combination of things,
which is endurance and uphill.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, yeah, such a.
I mean it's such an iconic andrad race.
It's kind of funny.
I was this is actually ahilarious story like not to
bring matt carpenter into this,but I was laughing at myself
today.
I, um, I bumped into mattcarpenter randomly on the trail.
Uh, he was actually likeleaving as I was like driving.
I was talking to anton lastnight about him and it was kind
of funny because I'm likedriving slow and I'm like, oh,
do I have enough time to getback to work?
(03:02):
And like can I stop and liketake a conversation?
Like have a conversation withMatt Carpenter?
Matt Carpenter doesn't know me,by the way.
So I'm like slowing down my carand I'm like looking at this
guy and he's like who the fuckis looking at me.
Can I give him a look?
And like I slowed down and thenI'm like just take a picture of
(03:25):
my car.
I was like this is, this is thefunniest matt carpenter story
I've had.
Like I bump into this guy allthe time he doesn't know me.
Like a recent time, like I hadlike a pissing match on a bike
with him.
Like recently he caught me likeon a climb like biking and like
he's such a random like sorry Idon't know I'm going off a
tangent here, but like it's kindof funny because there's just
so much lore around mattcarpenter at pike speaks.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
That's why, yeah, bring it up that's hilarious and
totally have the experience ofoh, this person's cool, I want
to talk to them.
They don't know me, that wouldbe weird.
And then it just gets weirderbecause you just do the awkward
either prolonged eye contact orthe, you know, mild car stalking
, and like it would have been somuch less awkward just to say
hello.
I thought the same thing thing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I was like oh, dude like why did I do that Like?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
yeah, no, I've been there.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, it's funny.
Uh, back to you, back to Pike'sPeak.
Um, you know you've had such acrazy season Like you've done so
much traveling this year.
You've gone, you know, acrossthe pond, you know, a few times
to go race you we caught upbefore just before, uh, uh, kind
of your stint with the golden,like the, the last stint with
the golden trail series whereyou did, uh, the plitz alpin
glacier trail, where you had agreat finish, as well as series
(04:29):
and all, and then OCC.
What stands out to you likewhat has been the highlight of
your season so far?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
oh my gosh, um, great question.
Just because it has been sorapid fire since coming back
from my injury in the spring.
It kind of just feels like ithas been so rapid fire since
coming back from my injury inthe spring.
It kind of just feels like it'sbeen nonstop.
I went into August knowing itwas going to be an absolutely
wild month.
Like three races, all of theminternational, in a month and
(04:57):
split into two trips Like I knewthat was just going to be
absolutely crazy.
Honestly, I would say kind ofthe overarching highlight has
just been the ability to go intoevery single one of these races
feeling relatively healthy andyou know not being on the
starting line thinking aboutanything other than just getting
(05:17):
in there and competing.
You know not having to worrylike oh, is my body going to
fall apart.
You know just being able to sayLike, oh, is my body going to
fall apart.
You know just being able to say, oh, I'm here, I'm feeling good
, I'm ready to toe this line,and that's felt amazing.
And I know this was prior toour last conversation, but I
really do just want to shout outthe community and the crowd at
(05:39):
the race in Mexico, like, stillto this day, like I just amazed
at, like their passion.
But that being said, europe also.
I love how much of a spectatorsport, trail racing is there.
You just you feel even thoughnot me so much you feel like a
(06:00):
celebrity anyways, just becausethey're really big on having
your name on the bib and there'ssomething about, you know,
being 30 miles into OCC andhaving people cheer your name.
That gives you a little morelife.
Um, so getting to have thatkind of experience as well has
been so much fun the fan.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's so crazy, the fan base like.
I think that's like why and Ibring this up on every podcast,
I might have mentioned this toyou before but like that's like
we need the fan base in the us,that's what we need.
And like I think, as we, as thesport grows and as it continues
and as things move along, likethat's that's my goal for pike's
peak is like I want like localsin the streets with cowbells
(06:38):
screaming on the trails, likehyping people up, and it's like
how do we build that fandom?
And like that's that's what weneed well, it's cool.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
We are starting to see it with races like pikes and
broken arrow um, the rut, youknow we're starting to kind of
to build that.
But you know, it's the, thefoundation that they have.
Um, you know, in europe andother places it's just, I think
it's it goes back deeper, um,and they've just had more time
to cultivate that.
But I really, you know, I hopeit's something, I think it's it
(07:07):
goes back deeper and they'vejust had more time to cultivate
that.
But I really, you know, I hopeit's something that we continue
to push and develop in the US,because we have some amazing
races here and I would, you know, love to continue to do more of
them, and I guess I am.
But yeah, it'd be really coolto see kind of the expansion of
trail running as a spectatorsport here, you know of trail
running as a spectator sporthere.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, I think we just need a cowbell fund.
I think we just start handingout cowbells to people and hope
that they I think any spot likethis.
So, for instance, the NorthFace Sponsors, bikes, guys, make
some cowbells, start handingthem out to people, bring food,
and here we go.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah.
So here's some coffee, here's asnack, here's a cowbell
Incentive.
Just stand there and ring thething for like 45 minutes
straight as people go by youEasy.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Sold yeah, what is it ?
Ali, ali ali or something likethat.
They say, yeah, ali ali.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And then you also get the die, die, die.
That one is funny and ironicbecause that is how you feel.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, that one grows on you, that's difficult to hear
.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It gives me a giggle every time.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
All right, let's get into.
I want to talk about PlitzalpinGlacier Trail, which was the
first.
I think it was the first raceyou did after we had chatted.
Another great, absolutelylights out finish for you, great
result.
That was a very tough courseand from what it seemed like it
was very technical.
And then they changed somethings around.
(08:27):
How was it, kind of last second, knowing that you, like they
took out, I guess, the big climbup to 9,000 feet or whatever?
How did that?
You know?
Was that like mentallydifficult for you guys to kind
of deal with?
Now that it was taken out, like, how did you adjust for that?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
So they the women's race started first and I want to
say that they changed thecourse about 20 minutes before
the start of the race.
Um, and actually I warmed upwith rachel, with meryl, and you
know we're we're chatting as wewarm up, we're like man.
I wonder if they're going tochange the course.
I wonder if this is going to belike poland was last year.
(09:01):
Um, because the weatherconditions were very similar and
, sure enough, we finished ourwarmup, get back, pull out our
phones and we got the messageabout the course change right
then.
So I think it was somethingthat wasn't entirely unexpected,
like I think we'd kind ofprepared mentally for that to be
the case.
You know, the biggest part ofthat was just knowing that it
(09:23):
was going to be a much fasterrace that way.
Just, you know, the biggestpart of that was just knowing
that it was going to be a muchfaster race that way.
I'm just, you know, basicallycutting the vert and descent in
half.
It was going to run just somuch faster, especially because
the first and last 5k of thatrace was a relatively flat loop.
So I kind of broke it down inmy brain.
I was like it's a cross countryrace.
It's a VK, it's a 2K fartlekloop, it's a reverse VK and then
(09:54):
it's another cross-country race, which actually sounds really
long.
But in the context of what I'vebeen doing this year, I was
like, wow, this is so short.
But breaking it down that way Ithink really kept it in
perspective.
That way, I think really keptit in perspective Because it was
a pretty chaotic day with theweather conditions and with the
course change and you know, Ithink that the race organization
did a very good job handlingthat and it ended up being great
(10:17):
because everybody got to finish.
You know, there were no tooserious of injuries.
I think everybody came outalive, you know, and I think
they did the best they couldwith the conditions that we had,
which was very rainy, verymuddy, pretty cold, which I
think has been the theme ofraces this year, I don't know.
(10:40):
But yeah, super cool experienceand I think that both the
athletes and the race, theyhandled that situation as well
as they could have.
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
It was, I mean, full on conditions, full on
everything, it would have beencool.
It's unfortunate because, likeit would have been cool had the
weather not occurred, if youguys would have gotten the full,
because that full course lookedamazing, it would have been so
cool yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, I would love, I would hope that that race is
potentially back on the GoldenTrail Circuit again, because I
would love to do that fullcourse.
Because, looking at that secondclimb, I was so excited by it.
It just looked like a nasty,nasty, steep forest road type
climb, which is something Ipersonally really enjoy, that's
my favorite.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I love forest roads.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, I was like that is my bread and butter, give it
to me, give me.
Climb 2K around a flat lake,climb again.
I'm like like, oh, that soundsamazing.
Um, but I understand, based onwhat the conditions were, why it
wasn't a safe choice.
Um, just because there was riskof snow, lightning or both?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
um, that would have been awkward so well yeah, fair
enough yeah, yeah, definitelynot a not a good thing.
Technical I saw like some ofthe descending like it was like
muddy and like just gruesome outthere and like nasty and
technical.
How'd you like, how did youfare on that descent?
Did you were you?
Did you like that?
Was it like?
No, I, I don't think I wouldhave liked it.
(12:04):
It looked pretty, pretty fullon.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
So yeah, I mean I think anybody who knows me it
it's no secret that technicaldescending is kind of my least
favorite thing.
Call me a track runner, I knowthat's where I came from, don't
judge me.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of thetechnical descents and adding
mud in there and even more highrisk, that was about the time in
(12:31):
the race that the men werecatching the women, um, so it
made it kind of just straightcarnage.
Um, you're trying to descend asa female and like the guys are
just blowing by you.
Um, one of my good friends likeactually got rammed into by a
descending man.
Not on purpose, it's just.
You know, when everyone'strying to descend as quickly as
they can and it's very slipperyfalling, slipping, grabbing
(12:52):
trees like left and right, youknow it's horrible.
Exactly it's all accidental,but it's just like it's pretty
high risk out there when youhave both men and women trying
to do the same technical, muddydescent at the same time.
But it was honestly a reallygood challenge for me and I
think that you know it forced meto practice a skill that I am
(13:15):
not very good at and that,honestly, I don't like to
practice very much.
So I think that was good.
Just because I knew that,coming off of that descent,
there was only three miles left.
I was like you have to pushthis descent, even though it
wasn't very comfortable to dothat.
So, yeah, total carnage.
But I think, you know, it wasone of those moments where I'm
(13:35):
like, yeah, this is kind of thepoint of trail racing.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I love it, amazing On the topic.
So something you just said wasabout men bumping into women.
You know this is something I'velike.
I'm really happy.
One thing that Golden TrailSeries has always done is have
have recently has started doingmore was staggered.
You know a women.
The women's race startsseparately than the men's race
and I I really like that.
What do you think about thembeing on different days, like
separate races for the men andwomen?
(14:00):
Oh, I'd like that yeah, I thinkso too.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I think I think that'd be great, better yeah
yeah, I think that would befantastic because the issue that
I have I like the separatestarts because in theory it
gives more media coverage andbetter starting positions for
the women.
So on that side of things Ireally like it.
But the issue with having it'susually like a 15 to 20-ish
(14:26):
minute staggered start isthere's going to be places in
the course where it's verydifficult for men to pass.
So it makes it hard.
You know, as a woman who I'mnot winning the thing, but you
know I'm close enough to thefront right I am going to get
caught by at least the top10-ish men and you know it ends
(14:49):
up being a situation where I'mhaving to stop my race to let
them by.
But then I'm also feeling badbecause I'm potentially
impacting their race if there'sa place where I can't move over
because of technicality or, youknow, safety or things like that
.
So I I do think a separate dayor a larger stagger um would
(15:11):
would be better, just to make ita safer and less interrupted
experience for everyone.
Because I think the point ofwhy they do that is to try and
have the top man and top womanfinish at around the same time,
which is great in theory.
But then you end up with asituation where the top woman is
still, you know, having tonavigate men somewhere in the
(15:32):
top two to six range as she'strying to finish, you know.
So it's still not anuninterrupted finish for the top
woman.
So, yeah, I like your idea ofpotentially having it on
separate days or just having thestagger be large enough where
the top athletes of each fieldare able to race kind of
uninterrupted, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
No, listen, a lot of races do it, like Mount Marathon
kind of like staggers it everyyear.
It's like the men.
One year the men will go earlyin the morning and the women
will go in the afternoon, andvice versa, and I always just
like that more.
And last year Headlands did it.
They had separate days for themen and women.
Yeah, I liked that.
Yeah, I thought so.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
It's also really fun to watch.
I love to spectate.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
So getting to do that is.
I find it to be so much fun.
I love to be able to be outthere on the course, so that's
one upside to the women goingfirst is that it's fun to be a
spectator after you're done.
But yeah, I wish that theywould do that the way they do it
for the final.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, this is all good.
I think we'll get to a point inthe sport where that probably
winds up happening.
I would assume.
I don't know, it's hard to say,but I think we'll get to a
point where we get there.
Okay, so I got to get to seriesand all before we run out of
time and get into pikes.
Sorry, i'm's always good.
(16:55):
I have always things I want toask you.
Um, how was it having thatweekend between Alpen glacier
and then getting to series andall and retired Like I would
have been pooped, like have, andthen to get that, to get that
mental stoke back for what'sprobably the the, the most
competitive, you know shorttrail race on the planet?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Uh, my right glute was pretty pooped.
That's the injured side.
I could tell man this thing isweak because every single
stabilizing muscle was sore.
But honestly, I don't mind aquick turnaround.
I think, coming from the trackworld where your championship
season it's very back to back toback, the track world where
(17:34):
your championship season it'svery back to back to back, I'm
used to that turnaround and Ifind mentally getting back in
the race mindset for trail aftermultiple races isn't as
difficult.
I think it's just because, atleast for me, from a mental side
of things, trail racing issimpler.
You kind of just lock in andrun hard.
You don't have to think aboutas many metrics as you do in the
(17:56):
tracker world.
So in that way I find it to bekind of less mentally taxing.
I think, yeah, the bigger thingwas just making sure that my
body was healthy again.
So my friends and I we actuallywe got an Airbnb for the first
few days in between the races inCrans-Montana, um, and it's
(18:18):
great because they have theirlifts running um and going down
is free.
So I just did a lot of uphillonly running Um, and I think
that that really helped with therecovery process in between.
And then, yeah, spent a fewdays in Zanol, kind of just
being lazy and eating cookies inbed.
Then was ready to go for seniorschool.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It's the best days.
Those are the best.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
You know, I'm just.
I'm sitting in Europe eatingcookies in bed and looking at
some beautiful snow cappedmountains.
I don't really know what elseyou could ask for.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
It's about as good as it gets, honestly, yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Then you get to race.
It's great could ask for.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
it's about as good as it gets, honestly, yeah, then
it gets a race.
It's great and you get to getto race the most competitive
race of the year besides OCC.
I guess I mean it's kind ofcrazy.
What would you?
I mean, that's such a big raceand such a crazy race, like what
was your takeaway?
Like, was it overwhelming to beon a start line?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
like that.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I think honestly, I went into that with more of a
sense of peace than I thought Iwould and I think a big part of
that was just giving myselfgrace to not have to be perfect
my first time doing it, becauseI don't know.
I've thought about this a lotthis season especially, and I'm
(19:32):
so glad I think we touched onthis a little bit in our last
conversation but I'm so gladthat I started off my debut year
last year just gettingabsolutely pummeled in high
competition races, because Ithink that prepared me to go
into races like Sears and all inOCC and not feel entirely
overwhelmed and terrifiedbecause I knew I was like this
(19:56):
year at this time, from whereI'm at right now, I'm not racing
to win this and so there's notthat sense of pressure of like
there's this exact place thatyou need to be because there
there wasn't.
You know it was.
Go and do this, you know,intrinsically very difficult
thing compete against the bestpeople in the world and if you
(20:18):
go and you do that, you're goingto have a good result rather
than feeling like I had to meetsome arbitrary, you know goal to
be successful.
Right, I mean, the only goal wasget enough points to get to the
golden trail final goal to besuccessful, right, I mean, the
only goal was get enough pointsto get to the Golden Trail Final
.
You know, other than that, itwas just hey, put yourself in it
.
You know, compete in this fieldwith courage and integrity and
(20:42):
you know, push the limits butalso just enjoy the process,
because you know I hope thatthere's a time in my career
sometime in the next few yearswhere I am, you know, racing for
a top finish at places likeSears and all in OCC Like.
I hope that that is my nearfuture.
So I want to take advantage ofthis place I am right now where
(21:06):
I can go into these races withmore of a sense of calm, I guess
calm and purpose, but notpressure.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I love that.
That's such a good mental spaceto be in Like you can actually
enjoy it.
I mean, it's painful, it's goingto hurt, but like still to just
to be able to enjoy it.
And, like you know, it's gottabe a very cool feeling to like
you're lined up against the bestathletes, like some of the best
athletes in the world, doingyour craft.
This, this amazing thing youwork so hard 365 days out of the
(21:38):
year to be good at, and thenyou're on the starting line of
like the proverbial Superbowl.
Like yeah, I take that in aspretty.
That's a very special time inyour life.
Like that's very cool.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Something like that's a memory I'll have for life,
which is kind of cool oh,absolutely, yeah, yeah, and
getting to do it surrounded bypeople that I call my closest
friends is also a really coolpart of it.
It's like, you know I I did thatwhole um, austria, sears and
all trip with one of my bestfriends from csu, like we were
she's my first friend when Itransferred into csu and then,
(22:08):
you know, now we're getting todo things like that together,
like Like how cool you know it'slike could you have told 19
year old us that like that'swhere we'd end up in a few years
?
I think we'd have both beenshocked to hear that.
So it's, it's really neat to beable to do that.
You know, and like sitting nextto Lauren on the bus going down
to the start line of Sears andall, and just like joking about
(22:30):
the dumbest stuff, before youknow we're holding in our puke
going down the switchbacks, butbefore that you know like we're
having a fun time on the bus.
It's like how cool is it tohave the juxtaposition of this
extremely intense, extremelycompetitive racing and just
being able to do it with peoplewhose company I genuinely enjoy.
You know it's it's cool.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Special.
It was very special.
Genuinely enjoy, you know it's,it's cool, special, it was very
special.
Let's talk OCC really quick.
Occ is it's an interestingbeast.
Like what?
What did you think of?
Like being in the sham for thelike that time?
Obviously it's a circus,because there's so much going on
, like the buzz, the atmosphere,the race, like what stuck out
to you, like what was like whatwas the most?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
question honestly, I think just we and I've talked
about this before but seeing theinvestment that the community
and the spectators and the otherathletes had in the event was
so cool and to feel like man, Iam actually genuinely a part of
this thing that so many peoplecare about was amazing.
(23:34):
Like I was shocked out there onthe course because, yeah, our,
like I said, theme of the year,it was cold and it was wet, you
know, and just seeing how manypeople were still out there on
the course in places where I'mlike I don't even know how you
got there, um, you know, andwe're out there just cheering
with so much spirit and energyand excitement for, you know,
(23:57):
every single athlete I was like,wow, that is truly just
inspiring.
Um, because it's like, yeah,okay, it's, it's hard to be out
there and racing, but you know,it's also not many people's idea
of fun to stand out in the rainin the middle of a mountain and
ring a cowbell for hours on end.
So it's like I really likedthat and, similarly speaking, I
(24:21):
was so inspired by all of thepeople who actually weren't part
of the elite field, who are outthere racing.
Um, because occ put this intoperspective for me.
Um, a few few hours after Ifinished, there was a huge storm
that rolled in like justpouring rain, poured down so
(24:42):
hard that we had a leak in ourAirbnb and there was this like
huge puddle, um, lightning,thunder.
All of that and I'm, you know,sitting in the warmth of my
Airbnb, having been done forseveral hours and, you know,
eating and having a time, andthen at dawn I'm like there are
still people out there on thatcourse and like I can't even
fathom how difficult it was torace through those conditions
(25:07):
and to spend so many hours onsuch a difficult course.
I'm like that's incredible.
I think you know we take forgranted how much less time it
takes when you know you a partof that elite field and how much
more gritty it is for thepeople who are out there so much
longer, because it's just ashard for them as it is for us,
(25:29):
except they're out there fordouble the time.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
That's amazing.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
That's so hardcore and I'm like man, those are the
tough ones.
It's a tough race.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
That is not an easy race.
What was your takeaway from thecourse Like?
Was it just absolutely stunningor were you racing hard?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I couldn't see anything.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
That's the problem.
I said, you know I bring thisup.
I'm like, oh, do you lookaround?
And then I think about my ownraces.
I'm like, dude, I don't lookaround.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Like I, I'm looking down, you're not looking around.
Well, it was also so cloudy,like at the at the top of the
climb, at the high point in thecourse, you couldn't see
anything.
Um, it was like if anybody saw,uh, the women's race at
headlands last year, how thelike the clouds and the fog were
very, very thick.
You couldn't, even, like, seethe switchback below you.
That's what it was like.
Um, so you actually there.
I'm like, wow, I'm sure the viewis great from up here, but I
can't see any of it.
You know, it's one of thosethings where you can hear the
(26:26):
aid station long before you cansee it.
I'm like I don't, I could be aquarter mile from this, I could
be two miles from this, like Ican hear it through the fog, but
I can't see anything other thanthe trail that's immediately in
front of me.
So I'm sure it was gorgeous,but, yeah, there wasn't as much
to see on our day that we did it.
But I look forward to goingback next year and hopefully
(26:47):
getting to see more of the views.
But what I could see wasstunning and the Chamonix area
is just unmatched.
I've been out there a fewsummers now and I honestly, I
love it out there so much.
It's one of those places whereit is every bit worth the hype.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
The vert.
I mean the vertical relief isjust like it's.
It's it's aggressive, like howsteep everything is.
I mean it's might be the bestword Like it's just like so
crazy.
Yeah, it's.
It's a special place, it's acool area, do you think so?
You said you'll definitely goback next year.
You think you'll move up likeOCC to CCC, or you think you'll
try CCC or, sorry, occ again.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think I want to go back to OCC.
I don't think I'm ready to jumpup to the 100K type distance
yet.
You know, I think, where I'm atright now, kind of one foot in
sub ultra, foot in shortishultra, and then you know some
sneaky forays into road, like Ithink that's just where I'm at
(27:47):
right now, um, that's where Ifeel like is working for me in
training, uh, and that's where Istill feel like I have quite a
margin for improvement in racing.
Um, and I don't feel the urgeto move up in distance until I
think I've kind of accomplishedmore goals in the sub and
shorter ultra realm.
I also, you know, I have somethoughts of, like I said, doing
(28:11):
a little bit more on the roadsand potentially, come 2028,
maybe, maybe, sneak my way backto the track.
We'll see All right.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
All right, this is all right.
This is all right answers.
I'm glad you said this, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
I mean CCC is going to be there.
It's not going anywhere.
I'll get there when I get there, and I'm sure that I will.
I definitely see my career justtrending longer distance over
time, but I don't think I'mready to let go of my track girl
roots just yet.
(28:44):
I think 50K and track don'tcoexist in one year, but I do
think that there's still somemobility going back and forth
between those things.
But yeah, for now, halfmarathon to 60K, I think, is the
zone.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Nice Very nice.
We'll keep it on that, that.
Well, let's move on to peak's.
Peak, let's um, obviouslythere's a lot of excitement for
this race.
I forgot this was a pre-raceepisode for a second.
Um, I gotta ask you do you have, I don't know, going into this
race?
Do you have splits?
Like, are you interested in,like, have you looked at any
splits?
Are you just like gonna racethe race?
And you know, obviously youknow, go for your own personal
(29:21):
PR and do the best you can.
Like, do you have any?
What's your expectation forthis one?
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I'll be so real.
I am notoriously bad at when itcomes to trail racing, looking
at things like splits, doingcourse studies.
I think it's something I needto work on moving forward, and I
will.
Before the race you know, lookat previous um, you know
previous splits and things likethat, just so I can get an
expectation, also hoping thatonce Mika comes back from the
(29:48):
rut, shout out to Mika.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, second place today.
He's back.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
The man is back, his first finish line in almost a
year, about a year.
So really excited to see himback.
And he also plans on doingpikes.
So I think he pikes.
Oh, my god, he's.
He plans to assuming the thebody holds up.
Yeah, he's on the list.
Yeah, so shout out to him.
Um, welcome back, mika.
Um, yeah, he's.
(30:13):
He's planning on doing theascent as well.
Um, we are kind of hoping.
Maybe.
I don't know if we're gonna havetime at this point, but
potentially sometime early nextweek going up and doing a little
bit of scouting.
He did it last year.
I haven't done it, obviously.
But yeah, I think I will lookinto that more as the race gets
closer because, honestly, thepast couple weeks since I have
(30:33):
been back from OCC, I've justbeen playing a game of catch up
with every other aspect of mylife and I haven't had a chance
to dedicate as much as I want to.
But yeah, look at some splits,get an idea.
But also, with so muchback-to-back kind of high
competition racing, I don't wantto burn myself out by putting
(30:56):
too much weight on any one race,because I find that's what kind
of just puts me in that mentalhole when you know you can only
put your soul on the line somany times in a season so true.
Yeah, and I and I've learnedthat the hard way, you know, and
(31:17):
so I think this is going to beone of those ones where I just
want to stick myself in it, seewhat I can do.
Look at some splits.
You know, depending onconditions, Like I think it
could be a really fast day and areally exciting race for me.
Um, you know, like obviouslyhave my eyes on podium, but at
the end of the day I'm just, I'mexcited to go do it.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I love it.
I love it and hopefully fingerscrossed it's good weather and
all goes well.
I know it's kind of a roll ofthe dice in late September this
time around.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
It could be anything.
I mean at this point, theme ofthe year is pouring rain, so
we'll see.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Which I haven't minded.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
honestly, I kind of enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That'd be snow on the upper mountain, though.
So that's not I mean it couldbe good.
It that I mean it could be good?
It depends if it's the nightbefore and you have like the
traction from like 2023.
When remy broke the record likethat was pretty solid.
So if you get something likethat, like could be fast time
wouldn't be bad.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, I mean as long as it's not icy, I prefer it
wasn't that, um, but I feel,like anything else, you can make
it work and even if it turnsinto a to a, chuck a nut at this
point, chucking it round four Iknow we need some warmer races.
This is crazy uh, sears and allwas plenty warm sears and all
is like high 80s, I think it wasoh, that's terrible.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And they started like such a late time too, like why
did they start the race, so why?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
why did you do that?
I don't, I don't know.
Maybe it's just to get all thebuses down, um, but yeah it,
that was.
That was a.
That was a toasty one.
It almost made me welcome therain again.
Those little sponges, the aidstation where you can squeeze it
over your head, that was alifesaver um, yeah, that's yeah,
so I'm like I wouldn't mind ifit was cold and wet.
(32:55):
Honestly, everything at thispoint this season has banks.
It was chuckanut mexico, uh,austria and occ it's crazy.
Who would have thought mexicowould be like wet and rainy
either, like that's yeah kind ofbananas it's funny like that
might have been the mostpleasant race of the year.
I don't even know what thatsaid.
(33:17):
I mean, I guess, broken arrow.
The conditions weren't too badsince I made it off the course
before it started snowing.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I forgot there was a snowstorm this year too.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Yeah, I feel bad for all those folks who, yeah, ended
up stuck in the lift stationsand then had to be taken down.
I'm like man, that's brutal,it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
It's crazy.
Yeah, all right, sarah.
Well, listen.
I want to say thank you so muchfor coming on.
I appreciate you coming on forthis race preview, Wishing you
the best of luck at Pikes Peakthis year.
And yeah, we'll be in touch.
We'll probably do another oneif you want to, after Golden
Trail World Series final.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah, sure thing.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Do a season recap.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, that would be awesome and I think, hopefully,
fingers crossed, one more raceafter Golden Trail finals to cap
off the, because I don't havemy OCC 2026 qualifier yet.
So Kodiak, would you?
Speaker 3 (34:10):
go to um.
I think I want to say Kodiak isthe same weekend as golden
trail final Um late October.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Yeah, ooh, what if I like it's?
It's on the UTMB website.
But hey guys, go do Kodiak anddon't do this one.
So I go to OCC.
There's one in Santa Barbaralate November.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Oh, I didn't know that was a UTMB race.
Okay, okay, I've heard someonemention it the other day.
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Pacific trails.
Yeah, it's a UTMB, yeah, y'all,it's only top three.
So go to Kodiak, and save yourgirl some trouble there you go,
there you go, speak it toexistence.
Thanks guys, appreciate it,appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Have a good rest of your day, you too.
Thank you, we'll see you nexttime.
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
They all start here and maketheir way towards the clouds.
It's time, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live peak.
Yeah, what's the stoke level?
Like to go race the ascent thisyear.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Oh, I'm super excited .
You know I'm definitely.
I'm in between two other hugeraces here, so I'm just you know
I'm excited to go do somethinglocal for the first time.
Actually, ever since I kind ofhopped into the trail world, I
haven't done anything in statein quite a while, so looking
forward to doing such an iconichistorical race.
That's also so close to where Iam, so I've been loving all of
the climbing this season, not somuch the descending, so very
(02:36):
excited to be doing kind of myfavorite combination of things,
which is endurance and uphill.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, yeah, such a.
I mean it's such an iconic andrad race.
It's kind of funny.
I was this is actually ahilarious story like not to
bring matt carpenter into this,but I was laughing at myself
today.
I, um, I bumped into mattcarpenter randomly on the trail.
Uh, he was actually likeleaving as I was like driving.
I was talking to anton lastnight about him and it was kind
of funny because I'm likedriving slow and I'm like, oh,
do I have enough time to getback to work?
(03:02):
And like can I stop and liketake a conversation?
Like have a conversation withMatt Carpenter?
Matt Carpenter doesn't know me,by the way.
So I'm like slowing down my carand I'm like looking at this
guy and he's like who the fuckis looking at me.
Can I give him a look?
And like I slowed down and thenI'm like just take a picture of
(03:25):
my car.
I was like this is, this is thefunniest matt carpenter story
I've had.
Like I bump into this guy allthe time he doesn't know me.
Like a recent time, like I hadlike a pissing match on a bike
with him.
Like recently he caught me likeon a climb like biking and like
he's such a random like sorry Idon't know I'm going off a
tangent here, but like it's kindof funny because there's just
so much lore around mattcarpenter at pike speaks.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
That's why, yeah, bring it up that's hilarious and
totally have the experience ofoh, this person's cool, I want
to talk to them.
They don't know me, that wouldbe weird.
And then it just gets weirderbecause you just do the awkward
either prolonged eye contact orthe, you know, mild car stalking
, and like it would have been somuch less awkward just to say
hello.
I thought the same thing thing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I was like oh, dude like why did I do that Like?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
yeah, no, I've been there.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, it's funny.
Uh, back to you, back to Pike'sPeak.
Um, you know you've had such acrazy season Like you've done so
much traveling this year.
You've gone, you know, acrossthe pond, you know, a few times
to go race you we caught upbefore just before, uh, uh, kind
of your stint with the golden,like the, the last stint with
the golden trail series whereyou did, uh, the plitz alpin
glacier trail, where you had agreat finish, as well as series
(04:29):
and all, and then OCC.
What stands out to you likewhat has been the highlight of
your season so far?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
oh my gosh, um, great question.
Just because it has been sorapid fire since coming back
from my injury in the spring.
It kind of just feels like ithas been so rapid fire since
coming back from my injury inthe spring.
It kind of just feels like it'sbeen nonstop.
I went into August knowing itwas going to be an absolutely
wild month.
Like three races, all of theminternational, in a month and
(04:57):
split into two trips Like I knewthat was just going to be
absolutely crazy.
Honestly, I would say kind ofthe overarching highlight has
just been the ability to go intoevery single one of these races
feeling relatively healthy andyou know not being on the
starting line thinking aboutanything other than just getting
(05:17):
in there and competing.
You know not having to worrylike oh, is my body going to
fall apart.
You know just being able to sayLike, oh, is my body going to
fall apart.
You know just being able to say, oh, I'm here, I'm feeling good
, I'm ready to toe this line,and that's felt amazing.
And I know this was prior toour last conversation, but I
really do just want to shout outthe community and the crowd at
(05:39):
the race in Mexico, like, stillto this day, like I just amazed
at, like their passion.
But that being said, europe also.
I love how much of a spectatorsport, trail racing is there.
You just you feel even thoughnot me so much you feel like a
(06:00):
celebrity anyways, just becausethey're really big on having
your name on the bib and there'ssomething about, you know,
being 30 miles into OCC andhaving people cheer your name.
That gives you a little morelife.
Um, so getting to have thatkind of experience as well has
been so much fun the fan.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's so crazy, the fan base like.
I think that's like why and Ibring this up on every podcast,
I might have mentioned this toyou before but like that's like
we need the fan base in the us,that's what we need.
And like I think, as we, as thesport grows and as it continues
and as things move along, likethat's that's my goal for pike's
peak is like I want like localsin the streets with cowbells
(06:38):
screaming on the trails, likehyping people up, and it's like
how do we build that fandom?
And like that's that's what weneed well, it's cool.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
We are starting to see it with races like pikes and
broken arrow um, the rut, youknow we're starting to kind of
to build that.
But you know, it's the, thefoundation that they have.
Um, you know, in europe andother places it's just, I think
it's it goes back deeper, um,and they've just had more time
to cultivate that.
But I really, you know, I hopeit's something, I think it's it
(07:07):
goes back deeper and they'vejust had more time to cultivate
that.
But I really, you know, I hopeit's something that we continue
to push and develop in the US,because we have some amazing
races here and I would, you know, love to continue to do more of
them, and I guess I am.
But yeah, it'd be really coolto see kind of the expansion of
trail running as a spectatorsport here, you know of trail
running as a spectator sporthere.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, I think we just need a cowbell fund.
I think we just start handingout cowbells to people and hope
that they I think any spot likethis.
So, for instance, the NorthFace Sponsors, bikes, guys, make
some cowbells, start handingthem out to people, bring food,
and here we go.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah.
So here's some coffee, here's asnack, here's a cowbell
Incentive.
Just stand there and ring thething for like 45 minutes
straight as people go by youEasy.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Sold yeah, what is it ?
Ali, ali ali or something likethat.
They say, yeah, ali ali.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And then you also get the die, die, die.
That one is funny and ironicbecause that is how you feel.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, that one grows on you, that's difficult to hear
.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It gives me a giggle every time.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
All right, let's get into.
I want to talk about PlitzalpinGlacier Trail, which was the
first.
I think it was the first raceyou did after we had chatted.
Another great, absolutelylights out finish for you, great
result.
That was a very tough courseand from what it seemed like it
was very technical.
And then they changed somethings around.
(08:27):
How was it, kind of last second, knowing that you, like they
took out, I guess, the big climbup to 9,000 feet or whatever?
How did that?
You know?
Was that like mentallydifficult for you guys to kind
of deal with?
Now that it was taken out, like, how did you adjust for that?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
So they the women's race started first and I want to
say that they changed thecourse about 20 minutes before
the start of the race.
Um, and actually I warmed upwith rachel, with meryl, and you
know we're we're chatting as wewarm up, we're like man.
I wonder if they're going tochange the course.
I wonder if this is going to belike poland was last year.
(09:01):
Um, because the weatherconditions were very similar and
, sure enough, we finished ourwarmup, get back, pull out our
phones and we got the messageabout the course change right
then.
So I think it was somethingthat wasn't entirely unexpected,
like I think we'd kind ofprepared mentally for that to be
the case.
You know, the biggest part ofthat was just knowing that it
(09:23):
was going to be a much fasterrace that way.
Just, you know, the biggestpart of that was just knowing
that it was going to be a muchfaster race that way.
I'm just, you know, basicallycutting the vert and descent in
half.
It was going to run just somuch faster, especially because
the first and last 5k of thatrace was a relatively flat loop.
So I kind of broke it down inmy brain.
I was like it's a cross countryrace.
It's a VK, it's a 2K fartlekloop, it's a reverse VK and then
(09:54):
it's another cross-country race, which actually sounds really
long.
But in the context of what I'vebeen doing this year, I was
like, wow, this is so short.
But breaking it down that way Ithink really kept it in
perspective.
That way, I think really keptit in perspective Because it was
a pretty chaotic day with theweather conditions and with the
course change and you know, Ithink that the race organization
did a very good job handlingthat and it ended up being great
(10:17):
because everybody got to finish.
You know, there were no tooserious of injuries.
I think everybody came outalive, you know, and I think
they did the best they couldwith the conditions that we had,
which was very rainy, verymuddy, pretty cold, which I
think has been the theme ofraces this year, I don't know.
(10:40):
But yeah, super cool experienceand I think that both the
athletes and the race, theyhandled that situation as well
as they could have.
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
It was, I mean, full on conditions, full on
everything, it would have beencool.
It's unfortunate because, likeit would have been cool had the
weather not occurred, if youguys would have gotten the full,
because that full course lookedamazing, it would have been so
cool yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, I would love, I would hope that that race is
potentially back on the GoldenTrail Circuit again, because I
would love to do that fullcourse.
Because, looking at that secondclimb, I was so excited by it.
It just looked like a nasty,nasty, steep forest road type
climb, which is something Ipersonally really enjoy, that's
my favorite.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I love forest roads.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, I was like that is my bread and butter, give it
to me, give me.
Climb 2K around a flat lake,climb again.
I'm like like, oh, that soundsamazing.
Um, but I understand, based onwhat the conditions were, why it
wasn't a safe choice.
Um, just because there was riskof snow, lightning or both?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
um, that would have been awkward so well yeah, fair
enough yeah, yeah, definitelynot a not a good thing.
Technical I saw like some ofthe descending like it was like
muddy and like just gruesome outthere and like nasty and
technical.
How'd you like, how did youfare on that descent?
Did you were you?
Did you like that?
Was it like?
No, I, I don't think I wouldhave liked it.
(12:04):
It looked pretty, pretty fullon.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
So yeah, I mean I think anybody who knows me it
it's no secret that technicaldescending is kind of my least
favorite thing.
Call me a track runner, I knowthat's where I came from, don't
judge me.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of thetechnical descents and adding
mud in there and even more highrisk, that was about the time in
(12:31):
the race that the men werecatching the women, um, so it
made it kind of just straightcarnage.
Um, you're trying to descend asa female and like the guys are
just blowing by you.
Um, one of my good friends likeactually got rammed into by a
descending man.
Not on purpose, it's just.
You know, when everyone'strying to descend as quickly as
they can and it's very slipperyfalling, slipping, grabbing
(12:52):
trees like left and right, youknow it's horrible.
Exactly it's all accidental,but it's just like it's pretty
high risk out there when youhave both men and women trying
to do the same technical, muddydescent at the same time.
But it was honestly a reallygood challenge for me and I
think that you know it forced meto practice a skill that I am
(13:15):
not very good at and that,honestly, I don't like to
practice very much.
So I think that was good.
Just because I knew that,coming off of that descent,
there was only three miles left.
I was like you have to pushthis descent, even though it
wasn't very comfortable to dothat.
So, yeah, total carnage.
But I think, you know, it wasone of those moments where I'm
(13:35):
like, yeah, this is kind of thepoint of trail racing.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I love it, amazing On the topic.
So something you just said wasabout men bumping into women.
You know this is something I'velike.
I'm really happy.
One thing that Golden TrailSeries has always done is have
have recently has started doingmore was staggered.
You know a women.
The women's race startsseparately than the men's race
and I I really like that.
What do you think about thembeing on different days, like
separate races for the men andwomen?
(14:00):
Oh, I'd like that yeah, I thinkso too.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I think I think that'd be great, better yeah
yeah, I think that would befantastic because the issue that
I have I like the separatestarts because in theory it
gives more media coverage andbetter starting positions for
the women.
So on that side of things Ireally like it.
But the issue with having it'susually like a 15 to 20-ish
(14:26):
minute staggered start isthere's going to be places in
the course where it's verydifficult for men to pass.
So it makes it hard.
You know, as a woman who I'mnot winning the thing, but you
know I'm close enough to thefront right I am going to get
caught by at least the top10-ish men and you know it ends
(14:49):
up being a situation where I'mhaving to stop my race to let
them by.
But then I'm also feeling badbecause I'm potentially
impacting their race if there'sa place where I can't move over
because of technicality or, youknow, safety or things like that
.
So I I do think a separate dayor a larger stagger um would
(15:11):
would be better, just to make ita safer and less interrupted
experience for everyone.
Because I think the point ofwhy they do that is to try and
have the top man and top womanfinish at around the same time,
which is great in theory.
But then you end up with asituation where the top woman is
still, you know, having tonavigate men somewhere in the
(15:32):
top two to six range as she'strying to finish, you know.
So it's still not anuninterrupted finish for the top
woman.
So, yeah, I like your idea ofpotentially having it on
separate days or just having thestagger be large enough where
the top athletes of each fieldare able to race kind of
uninterrupted, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
No, listen, a lot of races do it, like Mount Marathon
kind of like staggers it everyyear.
It's like the men.
One year the men will go earlyin the morning and the women
will go in the afternoon, andvice versa, and I always just
like that more.
And last year Headlands did it.
They had separate days for themen and women.
Yeah, I liked that.
Yeah, I thought so.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
It's also really fun to watch.
I love to spectate.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
So getting to do that is.
I find it to be so much fun.
I love to be able to be outthere on the course, so that's
one upside to the women goingfirst is that it's fun to be a
spectator after you're done.
But yeah, I wish that theywould do that the way they do it
for the final.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, this is all good.
I think we'll get to a point inthe sport where that probably
winds up happening.
I would assume.
I don't know, it's hard to say,but I think we'll get to a
point where we get there.
Okay, so I got to get to seriesand all before we run out of
time and get into pikes.
Sorry, i'm's always good.
(16:55):
I have always things I want toask you.
Um, how was it having thatweekend between Alpen glacier
and then getting to series andall and retired Like I would
have been pooped, like have, andthen to get that, to get that
mental stoke back for what'sprobably the the, the most
competitive, you know shorttrail race on the planet?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Uh, my right glute was pretty pooped.
That's the injured side.
I could tell man this thing isweak because every single
stabilizing muscle was sore.
But honestly, I don't mind aquick turnaround.
I think, coming from the trackworld where your championship
season it's very back to back toback, the track world where
(17:34):
your championship season it'svery back to back to back, I'm
used to that turnaround and Ifind mentally getting back in
the race mindset for trail aftermultiple races isn't as
difficult.
I think it's just because, atleast for me, from a mental side
of things, trail racing issimpler.
You kind of just lock in andrun hard.
You don't have to think aboutas many metrics as you do in the
(17:56):
tracker world.
So in that way I find it to bekind of less mentally taxing.
I think, yeah, the bigger thingwas just making sure that my
body was healthy again.
So my friends and I we actuallywe got an Airbnb for the first
few days in between the races inCrans-Montana, um, and it's
(18:18):
great because they have theirlifts running um and going down
is free.
So I just did a lot of uphillonly running Um, and I think
that that really helped with therecovery process in between.
And then, yeah, spent a fewdays in Zanol, kind of just
being lazy and eating cookies inbed.
Then was ready to go for seniorschool.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It's the best days.
Those are the best.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
You know, I'm just.
I'm sitting in Europe eatingcookies in bed and looking at
some beautiful snow cappedmountains.
I don't really know what elseyou could ask for.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
It's about as good as it gets, honestly, yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Then you get to race.
It's great could ask for.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
it's about as good as it gets, honestly, yeah, then
it gets a race.
It's great and you get to getto race the most competitive
race of the year besides OCC.
I guess I mean it's kind ofcrazy.
What would you?
I mean, that's such a big raceand such a crazy race, like what
was your takeaway?
Like, was it overwhelming to beon a start line?
Speaker 1 (19:06):
like that.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I think honestly, I went into that with more of a
sense of peace than I thought Iwould and I think a big part of
that was just giving myselfgrace to not have to be perfect
my first time doing it, becauseI don't know.
I've thought about this a lotthis season especially, and I'm
(19:32):
so glad I think we touched onthis a little bit in our last
conversation but I'm so gladthat I started off my debut year
last year just gettingabsolutely pummeled in high
competition races, because Ithink that prepared me to go
into races like Sears and all inOCC and not feel entirely
overwhelmed and terrifiedbecause I knew I was like this
(19:56):
year at this time, from whereI'm at right now, I'm not racing
to win this and so there's notthat sense of pressure of like
there's this exact place thatyou need to be because there
there wasn't.
You know it was.
Go and do this, you know,intrinsically very difficult
thing compete against the bestpeople in the world and if you
(20:18):
go and you do that, you're goingto have a good result rather
than feeling like I had to meetsome arbitrary, you know goal to
be successful.
Right, I mean, the only goal wasget enough points to get to the
golden trail final goal to besuccessful, right, I mean, the
only goal was get enough pointsto get to the Golden Trail Final
.
You know, other than that, itwas just hey, put yourself in it
.
You know, compete in this fieldwith courage and integrity and
(20:42):
you know, push the limits butalso just enjoy the process,
because you know I hope thatthere's a time in my career
sometime in the next few yearswhere I am, you know, racing for
a top finish at places likeSears and all in OCC Like.
I hope that that is my nearfuture.
So I want to take advantage ofthis place I am right now where
(21:06):
I can go into these races withmore of a sense of calm, I guess
calm and purpose, but notpressure.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I love that.
That's such a good mental spaceto be in Like you can actually
enjoy it.
I mean, it's painful, it's goingto hurt, but like still to just
to be able to enjoy it.
And, like you know, it's gottabe a very cool feeling to like
you're lined up against the bestathletes, like some of the best
athletes in the world, doingyour craft.
This, this amazing thing youwork so hard 365 days out of the
(21:38):
year to be good at, and thenyou're on the starting line of
like the proverbial Superbowl.
Like yeah, I take that in aspretty.
That's a very special time inyour life.
Like that's very cool.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Something like that's a memory I'll have for life,
which is kind of cool oh,absolutely, yeah, yeah, and
getting to do it surrounded bypeople that I call my closest
friends is also a really coolpart of it.
It's like, you know I I did thatwhole um, austria, sears and
all trip with one of my bestfriends from csu, like we were
she's my first friend when Itransferred into csu and then,
(22:08):
you know, now we're getting todo things like that together,
like Like how cool you know it'slike could you have told 19
year old us that like that'swhere we'd end up in a few years
?
I think we'd have both beenshocked to hear that.
So it's, it's really neat to beable to do that.
You know, and like sitting nextto Lauren on the bus going down
to the start line of Sears andall, and just like joking about
(22:30):
the dumbest stuff, before youknow we're holding in our puke
going down the switchbacks, butbefore that you know like we're
having a fun time on the bus.
It's like how cool is it tohave the juxtaposition of this
extremely intense, extremelycompetitive racing and just
being able to do it with peoplewhose company I genuinely enjoy.
You know it's it's cool.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Special.
It was very special.
Genuinely enjoy, you know it's,it's cool, special, it was very
special.
Let's talk OCC really quick.
Occ is it's an interestingbeast.
Like what?
What did you think of?
Like being in the sham for thelike that time?
Obviously it's a circus,because there's so much going on
, like the buzz, the atmosphere,the race, like what stuck out
to you, like what was like whatwas the most?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
question honestly, I think just we and I've talked
about this before but seeing theinvestment that the community
and the spectators and the otherathletes had in the event was
so cool and to feel like man, Iam actually genuinely a part of
this thing that so many peoplecare about was amazing.
(23:34):
Like I was shocked out there onthe course because, yeah, our,
like I said, theme of the year,it was cold and it was wet, you
know, and just seeing how manypeople were still out there on
the course in places where I'mlike I don't even know how you
got there, um, you know, andwe're out there just cheering
with so much spirit and energyand excitement for, you know,
(23:57):
every single athlete I was like,wow, that is truly just
inspiring.
Um, because it's like, yeah,okay, it's, it's hard to be out
there and racing, but you know,it's also not many people's idea
of fun to stand out in the rainin the middle of a mountain and
ring a cowbell for hours on end.
So it's like I really likedthat and, similarly speaking, I
(24:21):
was so inspired by all of thepeople who actually weren't part
of the elite field, who are outthere racing.
Um, because occ put this intoperspective for me.
Um, a few few hours after Ifinished, there was a huge storm
that rolled in like justpouring rain, poured down so
(24:42):
hard that we had a leak in ourAirbnb and there was this like
huge puddle, um, lightning,thunder.
All of that and I'm, you know,sitting in the warmth of my
Airbnb, having been done forseveral hours and, you know,
eating and having a time, andthen at dawn I'm like there are
still people out there on thatcourse and like I can't even
fathom how difficult it was torace through those conditions
(25:07):
and to spend so many hours onsuch a difficult course.
I'm like that's incredible.
I think you know we take forgranted how much less time it
takes when you know you a partof that elite field and how much
more gritty it is for thepeople who are out there so much
longer, because it's just ashard for them as it is for us,
(25:29):
except they're out there fordouble the time.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
That's amazing.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
That's so hardcore and I'm like man, those are the
tough ones.
It's a tough race.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
That is not an easy race.
What was your takeaway from thecourse Like?
Was it just absolutely stunningor were you racing hard?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I couldn't see anything.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
That's the problem.
I said, you know I bring thisup.
I'm like, oh, do you lookaround?
And then I think about my ownraces.
I'm like, dude, I don't lookaround.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Like I, I'm looking down, you're not looking around.
Well, it was also so cloudy,like at the at the top of the
climb, at the high point in thecourse, you couldn't see
anything.
Um, it was like if anybody saw,uh, the women's race at
headlands last year, how thelike the clouds and the fog were
very, very thick.
You couldn't, even, like, seethe switchback below you.
That's what it was like.
Um, so you actually there.
I'm like, wow, I'm sure the viewis great from up here, but I
can't see any of it.
You know, it's one of thosethings where you can hear the
(26:26):
aid station long before you cansee it.
I'm like I don't, I could be aquarter mile from this, I could
be two miles from this, like Ican hear it through the fog, but
I can't see anything other thanthe trail that's immediately in
front of me.
So I'm sure it was gorgeous,but, yeah, there wasn't as much
to see on our day that we did it.
But I look forward to goingback next year and hopefully
(26:47):
getting to see more of the views.
But what I could see wasstunning and the Chamonix area
is just unmatched.
I've been out there a fewsummers now and I honestly, I
love it out there so much.
It's one of those places whereit is every bit worth the hype.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
The vert.
I mean the vertical relief isjust like it's.
It's it's aggressive, like howsteep everything is.
I mean it's might be the bestword Like it's just like so
crazy.
Yeah, it's.
It's a special place, it's acool area, do you think so?
You said you'll definitely goback next year.
You think you'll move up likeOCC to CCC, or you think you'll
try CCC or, sorry, occ again.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think I want to go back to OCC.
I don't think I'm ready to jumpup to the 100K type distance
yet.
You know, I think, where I'm atright now, kind of one foot in
sub ultra, foot in shortishultra, and then you know some
sneaky forays into road, like Ithink that's just where I'm at
(27:47):
right now, um, that's where Ifeel like is working for me in
training, uh, and that's where Istill feel like I have quite a
margin for improvement in racing.
Um, and I don't feel the urgeto move up in distance until I
think I've kind of accomplishedmore goals in the sub and
shorter ultra realm.
I also, you know, I have somethoughts of, like I said, doing
(28:11):
a little bit more on the roadsand potentially, come 2028,
maybe, maybe, sneak my way backto the track.
We'll see All right.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
All right, this is all right.
This is all right answers.
I'm glad you said this, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
I mean CCC is going to be there.
It's not going anywhere.
I'll get there when I get there, and I'm sure that I will.
I definitely see my career justtrending longer distance over
time, but I don't think I'mready to let go of my track girl
roots just yet.
(28:44):
I think 50K and track don'tcoexist in one year, but I do
think that there's still somemobility going back and forth
between those things.
But yeah, for now, halfmarathon to 60K, I think, is the
zone.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Nice Very nice.
We'll keep it on that, that.
Well, let's move on to peak's.
Peak, let's um, obviouslythere's a lot of excitement for
this race.
I forgot this was a pre-raceepisode for a second.
Um, I gotta ask you do you have, I don't know, going into this
race?
Do you have splits?
Like, are you interested in,like, have you looked at any
splits?
Are you just like gonna racethe race?
And you know, obviously youknow, go for your own personal
(29:21):
PR and do the best you can.
Like, do you have any?
What's your expectation forthis one?
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I'll be so real.
I am notoriously bad at when itcomes to trail racing, looking
at things like splits, doingcourse studies.
I think it's something I needto work on moving forward, and I
will.
Before the race you know, lookat previous um, you know
previous splits and things likethat, just so I can get an
expectation, also hoping thatonce Mika comes back from the
(29:48):
rut, shout out to Mika.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, second place today.
He's back.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
The man is back, his first finish line in almost a
year, about a year.
So really excited to see himback.
And he also plans on doingpikes.
So I think he pikes.
Oh, my god, he's.
He plans to assuming the thebody holds up.
Yeah, he's on the list.
Yeah, so shout out to him.
Um, welcome back, mika.
Um, yeah, he's.
(30:13):
He's planning on doing theascent as well.
Um, we are kind of hoping.
Maybe.
I don't know if we're gonna havetime at this point, but
potentially sometime early nextweek going up and doing a little
bit of scouting.
He did it last year.
I haven't done it, obviously.
But yeah, I think I will lookinto that more as the race gets
closer because, honestly, thepast couple weeks since I have
(30:33):
been back from OCC, I've justbeen playing a game of catch up
with every other aspect of mylife and I haven't had a chance
to dedicate as much as I want to.
But yeah, look at some splits,get an idea.
But also, with so muchback-to-back kind of high
competition racing, I don't wantto burn myself out by putting
(30:56):
too much weight on any one race,because I find that's what kind
of just puts me in that mentalhole when you know you can only
put your soul on the line somany times in a season so true.
Yeah, and I and I've learnedthat the hard way, you know, and
(31:17):
so I think this is going to beone of those ones where I just
want to stick myself in it, seewhat I can do.
Look at some splits.
You know, depending onconditions, Like I think it
could be a really fast day and areally exciting race for me.
Um, you know, like obviouslyhave my eyes on podium, but at
the end of the day I'm just, I'mexcited to go do it.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I love it.
I love it and hopefully fingerscrossed it's good weather and
all goes well.
I know it's kind of a roll ofthe dice in late September this
time around.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
It could be anything.
I mean at this point, theme ofthe year is pouring rain, so
we'll see.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Which I haven't minded.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
honestly, I kind of enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That'd be snow on the upper mountain, though.
So that's not I mean it couldbe good.
It that I mean it could be good?
It depends if it's the nightbefore and you have like the
traction from like 2023.
When remy broke the record likethat was pretty solid.
So if you get something likethat, like could be fast time
wouldn't be bad.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, I mean as long as it's not icy, I prefer it
wasn't that, um, but I feel,like anything else, you can make
it work and even if it turnsinto a to a, chuck a nut at this
point, chucking it round four Iknow we need some warmer races.
This is crazy uh, sears and allwas plenty warm sears and all
is like high 80s, I think it wasoh, that's terrible.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And they started like such a late time too, like why
did they start the race, so why?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
why did you do that?
I don't, I don't know.
Maybe it's just to get all thebuses down, um, but yeah it,
that was.
That was a.
That was a toasty one.
It almost made me welcome therain again.
Those little sponges, the aidstation where you can squeeze it
over your head, that was alifesaver um, yeah, that's yeah,
so I'm like I wouldn't mind ifit was cold and wet.
(32:55):
Honestly, everything at thispoint this season has banks.
It was chuckanut mexico, uh,austria and occ it's crazy.
Who would have thought mexicowould be like wet and rainy
either, like that's yeah kind ofbananas it's funny like that
might have been the mostpleasant race of the year.
I don't even know what thatsaid.
(33:17):
I mean, I guess, broken arrow.
The conditions weren't too badsince I made it off the course
before it started snowing.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I forgot there was a snowstorm this year too.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Yeah, I feel bad for all those folks who, yeah, ended
up stuck in the lift stationsand then had to be taken down.
I'm like man, that's brutal,it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
It's crazy.
Yeah, all right, sarah.
Well, listen.
I want to say thank you so muchfor coming on.
I appreciate you coming on forthis race preview, Wishing you
the best of luck at Pikes Peakthis year.
And yeah, we'll be in touch.
We'll probably do another oneif you want to, after Golden
Trail World Series final.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah, sure thing.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Do a season recap.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, that would be awesome and I think, hopefully,
fingers crossed, one more raceafter Golden Trail finals to cap
off the, because I don't havemy OCC 2026 qualifier yet.
So Kodiak, would you?
Speaker 3 (34:10):
go to um.
I think I want to say Kodiak isthe same weekend as golden
trail final Um late October.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Yeah, ooh, what if I like it's?
It's on the UTMB website.
But hey guys, go do Kodiak anddon't do this one.
So I go to OCC.
There's one in Santa Barbaralate November.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Oh, I didn't know that was a UTMB race.
Okay, okay, I've heard someonemention it the other day.
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Pacific trails.
Yeah, it's a UTMB, yeah, y'all,it's only top three.
So go to Kodiak, and save yourgirl some trouble there you go,
there you go, speak it toexistence.
Thanks guys, appreciate it,appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Have a good rest of your day, you too.
Thank you, we'll see you nexttime.
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