December 11, 2025 • 26 mins
Breaking news rarely hits mountain running like this. The World Skyrunner Series is officially returning to the United States, and the Beast of Big Creek on Washington’s Olympic Peninsula is the stage. We dive straight into what makes this 23K course so compelling: sustained grades exceeding 20 percent, a clean up-and-down profile that rewards efficient climbers and fearless descenders, and a summit near 6,000 feet that avoids altitude headaches without losing the punch. With 1.5x points on offer, we make the case for why European stars could cross the Atlantic and why sub-two hours might be in play.
We unpack the “why here” question through logistics and strategy. Seattle’s international access makes travel simple, while the terrain delivers classic skyrunning character without sprawling altitude or complex permitting. Then we zoom out: how ISF certification interacts with the World Series, the signals from Whiteface and Broken Arrow, and whether a U.S. skyrunning series is waiting in the wings. We compare philosophies too, contrasting Golden Trail’s media-friendly flower loops with skyrunning’s traditional aesthetic lines and discussing why a tighter global calendar could sharpen competition and improve storytelling.
This is also a conversation about athlete pathways. If more U.S. events gain certification, short-trail standouts, collegiate converts, and VK specialists can build toward European icons like Matterhorn and Trofeo Kima without crossing oceans for every test. We talk rumors, real implications for the Northeast and Pacific Northwest scenes, and how brands and athletes might respond if skyrunning gains momentum here. Hit play to catch our hot takes, practical race analysis, and the questions that will define the next phase of American mountain running. If you enjoy the show, follow, share with a trail friend, and leave a quick review—what race should be the next U.S. skyrunning stop?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Lauriello,and today I'm so excited to be
joined by frequent co-host NickTusa for a special podcast
that's right, an emergency show.
This one specifically becausethe World Skyrunner series is
back in the United States forthe first time since 2019.
(00:20):
So it demanded a conversation.
The Beast of Big Creek 23K raceon the Olympic Peninsula of
Washington has just beenannounced, and I thought it was
definitely something worthconversating about.
We don't just talk about thisrace, we speculate on what else
the USA Skyrunning is going topossibly announce throughout the
rest of the next few weeks,maybe into the new year.
(00:42):
We do dissect this race in itsentirety.
We talk about its elevationgain.
We talk about all differentkinds of things.
It's definitely fun.
And like I said, there's a lotof speculation on what's to come
and uh if we think this is goingto be a successful go or not.
I think it's all exciting stuffeither way, and uh definitely
demanding of a conversation.
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
(01:05):
Uh World Sky Running Chat on theBeast of Big Creek with Nick
Tusa.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, we on the All right,
boom.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Nick Tusa, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
It's been a minute, dude.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Dude, it has uh I'm amazing.
Even more amazing hearing thisnews that we're about to talk
about.
I know.
It's pretty exciting stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
We are on the pod right now for an emergency
podcast.
This is the first of its kind.
I've never done anything likethis before.
But I think this news, I feellike I significantly dropped the
ball on uh Broken Arrow.
And but like Free Trail coveredit, and then it was on like
every other thing.
So I was like, all right, we'regonna cover this.
We're gonna be the first on thisone, at least.
(02:52):
Um, so yeah, big news.
Uh, the US or World SkyrunningSeries is coming back to the
United States for the first timesince 2019.
Uh named the Beast of Big Creek.
It's gonna be the race.
Um, set on the Olympic Peninsulain Washington.
You know what's funny, dude?
I gotta ask him, I don't know ifthis was like legit or not, but
(03:13):
I wonder if this was like a umif some people knew about this
going in that were notaffiliated with the Skyrunner
series.
The only reason I say that isbecause I was listening to a
single track episode a minuteago, um, and it was uh and it
was Jeff um Cole?
Yeah, Jeff Cole.
And he said something aboutdoing like a racing series or
(03:34):
like that's the place forskyrunning.
And so either it was like amassive coincidence or he knew
it.
He was just like dropping ahint.
So I don't know.
I feel like um the other thing,too, that I find really funny
about this is uh we had kind ofknown that Beast of Big Creek
had some sort of affiliation onthe USA Skyrunning site, they
were an ISF affiliated course,so I immediately kind of had an
(03:54):
idea.
I asked around to a bunch ofpeople trying to do some
investigative journalism.
Uh, nobody could give me astraight answer, or everybody
kind of refused to give me astraight answer.
And sure as shit, CoreyWoltering accidentally spilled
the beans last night, so I knewa little bit ahead of time, and
here we are.
So okay, because he's partneredwith Merrill, so he had a little
(04:15):
insight.
Okay, got it, got it.
You know what's funny?
He thought he said it on thepodcast that we recorded, texted
me about it, and I was like, no,you never said that.
Oh man.
So now the now the cat's out ofthe bag, news is done.
Yeah.
Uh so what do you think?
Uh do you think what do youthink about the course?
We could talk and go into the uhthe nitty-gritty on the course
and and everything from there,but so far, like what do you
(04:37):
what do you think, man?
Especially for someone like thatwants to do a race.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
100%.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's exciting thatit's it's actually a course that
you know not a lot of peopleprobably know of.
I imagine it's mostly peoplethat are maybe local or in the
Seattle area or Washington areathat maybe have heard of this um
race.
I know it's only gone on ahandful of times.
Um, so it'll be fun to like geta group of people there at a
place that they have never been.
There's no um no advantage hereor anything like that.
(05:04):
Um, but yeah, the course is like14 miles-ish.
Uh, I think 22k is what I sawwith right around a little over
5,300 feet of gain, so a littleunder like 2,000 meters.
Um great climb, steep.
There's not many options in thestates here where you're
exceeding 20 plus percent gradein races.
There's maybe a handful outthere, and this is one of them.
(05:26):
Um, yeah, the race starts out, alittle detail about it.
Uh, first like four-ish miles isabout like a 10% grade climb,
and climbs up to a pretty steep20 plus percent grade, uh,
pretty technical section, andthen you're kind of rolling
down, and it just looks like aperfect up-down format, peaks
out at 6,000 feet.
I heard the the peak isbeautiful.
(05:47):
Um, yeah, it's it's incredible.
I mean, I've been wantingpersonally, and I know a lot of
people have have been dreamingof running uh an international
sky race, and to have theopportunity to have it somewhat
in our backyard is uh is prettyincredible.
Um and we found out too thatthis race is going to be
incentivized a little bit.
Um, it's going to have 1.5 timesthe points.
(06:09):
So I'm guessing the reasoningfor doing that was to get some
more people to make the tripover from Europe.
So hopefully we get some Eurosout there, you know.
I would I would love to tow theline with some of them.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Yeah, I find it really interesting.
I think this was a good choice.
And the only like a couple ofthe reasons I'll put that out
there is you think about whyUTMB bought Speed Goat, right?
Well, the obviously location,accessibility, easiness to get
to an airport.
So I think all of those thingskind of click in the same way
for a race like this.
You're not super far fromsomething like Seattle.
So international athletes andjust athletes from around the
(06:41):
country can come uh fly rightin.
It's close to the big hub, um,beautiful area.
It's not really at altitude.
Uh I'm using top 6,000 feet,which I wouldn't classify as
really altitude.
Obviously at the top, but belowis not that big of a deal.
Um yeah, I think it checks kindof all the boxes as far as the
US.
I just find it interesting as towhy there, but I guess it makes
(07:04):
sense.
I I have to be honest with you.
I was really as far as likeputting my Tim Foyle hat on and
speculation cap, like I thoughtit was gonna be in the Wasatch.
I've heard rumblings fromdifferent people that there was
gonna be a new race somewhere inthe Wasatch, and they were
looking at permitting and tryingto figure that out, and and
maybe that still comes tofruition.
Um, you know how I feel aboutthe creation of races just for a
(07:27):
series.
I'm not a big fan of that.
Um but that said, um I I thinkthis was a this is something
new.
This is something different.
Like it's got a few years of uhuh I'm curious.
Actually, let me piggyback onthis one more thing.
The the finish times, did youlook at some of the finish
times?
They're actually pretty fast.
Like I did, yeah, yeah.
(07:48):
Yeah, a little over two hours.
Yeah.
I feel like that's a fast skyrace or relatively fast.
But yes, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Yeah, we'll see.
Yeah, I I'm sure I I could seesomeone even going under two
hours, which would be pretty,pretty crazy, but um, but yeah,
do we know for sure that that isthe course that they're gonna go
with the sky race, the quoteunquote course?
Because they have a separatecourse as well that ends up
being 30k with closer to 2,000meters, you know, 6,000 plus
(08:15):
feet of gain.
Um and that seems to be kind ofwhat Skyrunning caters to, kind
of that distance.
I feel like 22k would maybe beon the shorter side, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
I don't know.
Uh the the race directors aregonna come on on next week.
So we'll get more informationsome more info on that.
Uh I I'm just curious to know,like, how the hell did you get
like I know it's been a longtime coming that we've been
trying to get USA Sky, liketrying to get Sky Running back
in the United States.
That said, how the hell did theyget the race?
Like, of all races, it's kind ofan obscure it's a great
(08:48):
location, great course.
How the hell do they pull thatoff, though?
That's the story I want to knowabout.
Like, how do we get that um getthat done?
All right, I want to deviatefrom this a little bit because
I'm putting my tinfoil hat onagain.
Um I did talk to USA SkyRunning.
I've I invited them on thepodcast today to join you uh and
and myself, and they turned medown uh because there's more
(09:09):
announcements coming.
That's all I've been told.
That makes me feel like uhthere's a national series
coming, and I don't want to leakanything because I don't really
know, but my that's my guess isthat there's gonna be, from what
I understand, one to a few moreraces announced.
Now, uh I'm gonna tighten thattinfoil hat down a little bit
more.
And if I go to USA Sky Running'swebsite, it's pretty
(09:31):
straightforward.
We've got the Broken Arrow 23Kon there, which is now an
officially ISF certified course,and the White Face Sky Race in
uh the Northeast taking place onJuly 4th.
Guys, could that's the time youwant to have this race in July
4th?
Anyway, uh and the Whiteface VK.
So I feel like there's gonna bemore announcements coming.
(09:51):
I don't know if they correlateexactly to these ISF certified
courses, but these are the onlyISF certified courses in the
United States.
So I would wonder if we aregoing to be getting an
announcement from Broken Arrowin the near distant future when
they're ready to announce it,uh, that this would be part of
an either a national skyrunningseries of some kind, or in
(10:12):
whatever way, shape, or formthat this is a USA sky running
race.
Um the same thing withWhiteface.
I I think I love Broken Arrow,and it is you know, like it's a
very difficult course.
There's a lot of likeinteresting aspects to it.
I am more interested to hearmore from the Whiteface stuff,
just because broken arrow is alot of fanfare, a lot of people
going, like that race in its ownright, like it that doesn't
(10:35):
really add a ton to broken arrowto me because broken arrow is
already popular, already hasthis allure, it's already
amazing and world-class whatthey put on.
But I am curious aboutWhiteface.
Like um, they have a mountainrace, they have a sky race, they
have a VK.
And those the mountain race andthe sky race are two different
courses.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
Yes.
Yep.
I know they do that typically onweekends where they'll have like
a VK as well as the Sky Raceoption.
Um so yeah, I don't know.
I'm looking a little bit closerhere, and they actually do have
it listed.
They have like the exactdistances inverts.
So to go back on what we werechatting about with the beast of
Big Creek, it looks like 23kwith 1600 meters.
(11:15):
So yeah, that's probably thecourse.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
It'd be a fast race too.
Like I said, oh yeah.
If someone's running 223 on anon-skyrunning year, someone's
going under two hours easily onskyrunning year.
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
The technical level too is stated to be a level one,
so I would assume I don't knowsky running's criteria for that.
I know it can get extremelytechnical if you're looking at
like the races, like theMatterhorn.
Um that race is insane.
But yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
unknown (11:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Um yeah, so uh a couple like thoughts here.
I think the first one is uh I'mseeing parallels with Skyrunning
to Cirque Series.
What did Cirque Series do in2025?
They went to the Northeast andthen they went to the Pacific
Northwest.
What is USA Skyrunning doing, orwhat is Skyrunning now doing?
They're in the Pacific Northwestand now they're in the
Northeast.
(12:05):
This is a speculation.
I don't really know if they'regonna be in the northeast.
I wonder why I'm gonna guessthat they're in the northeast.
Um, I mean, I think there's realpockets of I think there's
opportunities in all thesedifferent places, obviously,
pockets of mountain runners inthe Pacific Northwest, um, where
there's a large fan base.
And I think the same thing inthe Northeast.
The Northeast trail scene foryears and years and years, in my
(12:26):
opinion, not only has been slepton, but if you really wanted to,
you could do a whole short trailseason out there.
Yeah, incredible.
Yeah.
So I yeah, I can't help butspeculate that uh the success of
the Cirque series might bemoving the market a little bit
and pushing races to uh to tryto contend, which is
interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
So good luck.
Well, I know so we know GoldenTrail, they had a national
series at one point, which theydiscontinued, I believe this
year was the first year thatthey didn't have it, 2025.
I wonder if they're taking somenotes maybe from that their book
saying, hey, they don't have itnow, maybe we could be the ones
to do it.
(13:04):
Because I feel like they areessentially they're directly
competing with each other.
I mean, in a sense, it is alittle bit different, but the
same.
SPEAKER_00 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, it's really it's it is strange.
The uh the national series kindof concept.
Like, I don't know why they canjust like expand the calendar
and put a couple different WorldSeries, like make White or Bro
like I don't know how it wouldwork for Broken Arrow to be a
World Series race or how likethat would work with them.
I mean, if there's any race thatwould be a World Series race in
the United States, there's onlya few I can think of.
(13:34):
Broken Arrow is is one of them,just because infrastructure in
place that is a damn well-runevent.
I think that's in my opinion theAmerican standard when it comes
to racing in America, outside ofmaybe the Rut and a few others.
But uh, what Brandon's been ableto create there, in my opinion,
um like just infrastructure-wiseand the course and just
everything that you need inplace to put on a world-class
(13:55):
event, that is what we would dois broken arrow.
Like, that's the place to do it.
Um, but I don't know.
There, dude, so all right, I'llgive you some backstory here.
And I'll be honest with you, asI I'm still learning this as I
go, so if I misspeak, uh, it'sbecause I don't have fully the
right information.
But I understand there is theWorld Skyrunner series, and then
there's the ISF, which is theInternational Skyrunning uh not
(14:17):
Foundation, ISF FederationFederation, excuse me, thank
you.
And they're kind of twodifferent things there's the
racing series and the worldseries, but then as far as the
ISF goes, the InternationalSkyrunning Federation, this is
why I wanted to have people fromUSA skyrunning on here to help
explain this to me.
Um, but I understand that that'sthe governing body, so they're
(14:37):
the ones that are gonna come inand say this course um meets the
standards of the InternationalSkyrunning Federation, so
therefore we can sanction thisas a skyrunning race, and
therefore I guess the WorldSeries of Skyrunning can hold a
held a race on that, if thatmakes sense.
Okay.
Um but I still think it's kindof two separate entities, from
what I understand.
So always does does do they doesit is a copacetic, from what I
(15:02):
get.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Um that is interesting.
I I feel like they would benefitif they were if they were one.
Um just because how I see itwith like the national series
playing out kind of similar tothe golden trail side of things
where uh people have anopportunity to become known or
whatever at these nationalseries events and maybe get the
(15:22):
invite out to a coupleinternational events and then
get their feet wet there, andthen maybe they're fully
sponsored, and boom, they havean opportunity.
Um I just think they're they'relooking for more competition, I
imagine.
It's yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
No, I agree, I agree.
I do find it really interestingtoo, and uh pretty cool.
Um like I said, I think this isthe maybe the the flood, like it
opens the floodgates for more.
And I think it's another thingthat we've got really good
athletes in the country that dogo over there.
There's not many of them, but dorace at that level over there,
and hopefully we can there canmore can be done, is what I'm
(16:00):
trying to say, to createeducation for younger athletes
coming up uh that might beinterested in something like
this.
Because you gotta remember, it'slike especially in America, it's
track and field.
Once you come off track andfield, maybe at the collegiate
level, what do you usually do?
Usually you're going to acertain space.
Yeah.
If you want to do something alittle bit longer, generally
it's straight to the goldentrail series.
I mean, that's where that'swhere the sport kind of takes in
(16:23):
all of the um talent, if youwill, generally.
Some do go to skyrunning, but itwould be cool if they had an
additional option.
Like Karin Anderson's a reallygood example.
She's a young gun from uh uh shewas at UC, and then I think she
went to Mines.
And from Mines uh goes andcompetes at the World Skyrim
series.
Um Robin, uh, who I just saw onthe podcast, Robin's another one
(16:45):
who goes over and competes abunch.
Um, so there's people floatingaround.
I just think we need more maybediscussion and education around
the subject so that all of thetalent just doesn't go straight
to Golden Trail.
And uh that's that's theunfortunate part.
But I don't know.
I think the only negative thingfrom the calendar release that I
saw this morning is I'm reallybummed Minotaur is not a race on
(17:08):
there right now.
That sucks because that's areally good race.
Now youth skyrunning.
See, this is where I getconfused because now it's also
the youth sky North American skyrunning final, but it's not a
world sky running race.
I'm so confused.
This is where you lose me.
Yeah.
Uh get that.
(17:29):
Yeah.
So we got a gov basically it'slike the governing body and then
it's like the series, and it'slike two separate, kind of a
separate separate things.
But with their post thismorning, Skyrunning and the Sky
Running Federation posted thatin tandem to put out the
calendar for this year.
So obviously, we're good eye intandem.
(17:49):
I'm actually on the page rightnow, so it's not not that good
of an observation.
Um calendar is as follows (17:52):
four refugios, the Merrill Andy Sky
Race, Acatodales to de North, uhthe Calamaro Sky Race, the
Penyang Sky Race, the Sky Racede Masin, uh the Ueda Sky Race,
Sky Race de Gourge du Tarn,Yarding Sky Race, um, and then a
whole bunch leading up to uhBeast of Big and then
(18:16):
Matterhorn, Trofo Chemo, whichis a bi-annual race.
Uh, super excited for TrofoChemo to come back onto the
series.
I was excited to see that.
Dude, if there's one race thatyou should do in Europe, that's
that's probably the one.
You gotta wear a helmet.
It's so cool.
I know.
It's so cool.
Uh so and one thing I did noticeas well, they cut the calendar
down.
(18:36):
So the calendar is substantiallyless races this year, uh, than
in previous years, which I thinkis better.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
I think it's better for competition, way better.
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yeah, competition.
Uh there's gonna be lessdilution uh at the top.
I think there's it's better forstorytelling, um, you know, from
a social media perspective andfrom YouTube to be able to tell
the stories of these athletes.
Uh, I think it's better allaround.
I I like that's something Ireally like from Golden Trail
series.
It's just I don't know, handfulto seven races.
Um and they're it's condensed,right?
(19:08):
There's a lot more weight put onit.
Whereas with the SkyrunnersWorld Series, there's I would
say almost less weight put tosome races, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yeah, it's a bummer to only see one North American
race on the official calendar.
SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
Yeah, I would have preferred.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
And then one of Mexico or yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, Mexico.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Yeah.
I wonder, I'm curious how theypicked these um these these
races that have the 1.5 X pointswith a red star that's next to
them there.
I don't know.
If they're just trying to getpeople to certain ones, like
there's one in Japan, Argentina,France, and yeah, I don't know.
(19:52):
Yeah, it's exciting.
It's it's uh This is gonna be abig um I think a big jump for
Sky Running after this year.
I think I think it's gonna be ona lot more people's map and
radar.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
Well, I feel like I think in my opinion, uh like
Golden Trail is the best game intown right now.
And I think that but and Iposted this yesterday, and it's
not it's not just me that'spicked up on this, it's a lot of
athletes.
You'd be surprised the amount ofpeople that have messaged me and
be like, huh.
Like this makes sense too.
Um just the dilution, it seemslike, in Golden Trail, maybe
(20:30):
losing a little bit of a luster,like luster than they've had in
previous years.
Um it seems like there's just alot of consolidation at the top.
Um same athletes seem to bewinning, at least on the men's
side.
There's some mix-up on thewomen's side, but generally not
as much.
Um for so long it's been GoldenTrail, been the only game in
(20:50):
town.
It seemed like Skyrunner made ahuge push maybe two years ago in
2024.
Um, Merrill was more it seemedlike when Merrill came on board,
more branching out, more athletesignings, more investment.
Um, and I think that's been ahuge lifeblood for that series
and it's helped a ton.
Um, but I think if you want togain traction in the North
American audience, yeah, yougotta have more races.
(21:11):
Like, so I think that that wouldmake sense to me as to why
they're gonna be putting, or Iwould guess it's at least one
more race or a national seriesof some kind.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
And maybe it's just a PLO.
Maybe maybe they're doing this,these national series in a few
select countries, and they'rejust seeing how the
participation is and and whatcomes out of it.
And if it's good, then it'slike, well, let's expand on
that.
It seems like a no-brainer.
SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
Yeah.
Well, and the thing is too, islike I get where golden trail's
going.
Like Greg is in love with thatflower format.
Why?
Why do you think?
Because he wants to take thatthe Olympics, right?
And be able to pitch that aslike the the standard for the
Olympic Games when they try togo for sky or trail running.
Skyrunning's not gonna be anOlympic sport, like it's it's
just it's just too much its ownthing.
(21:54):
At least I don't think so.
It's more uh more part of thesoul of the sport, the technical
aspect.
Like, I I find it to be justcompletely something completely
different.
So I would guess that I don'tknow.
Like, I and I don't I'm notreally a big fan of the flower
format either.
I have to be honest.
Like, I don't think that that isuh it's the best way maybe of
storytelling from a TVperspective.
(22:16):
Um, but as far as like just therace experience, like you can't
tell me you're gonna take aflower format like Kobe and
compare that to something likeTrophokema.
It's two different worlds, youknow.
Um athlete said something to methat was very interesting is
that you know they felt verystrongly that Golden Trail
become more of a cross countrystyle race.
(22:37):
Was like, whoa.
I was like, that I got gearsturning in my head.
All right, I was like,interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Yeah, they're definitely not catering to the
runners, they're catering to themedia, the exposure to it, the
yeah, easiness of doing it,which is unfortunate, but I
don't know.
I would rather have an aestheticline that's point-to-point or
that's like a perfect loop, orit makes sense, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And I feel like Skyrunning doesthat pretty pretty well.
(23:07):
Um, I feel like they haven'tdone any any flower format or
anything like that.
Um their races seem to be verytraditional.
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, nothing into the accord oflike actually um yeah, it's not
like made for TV, you know.
No, yeah, we gotta do, we gottawe gotta go do Sky Race day
maths in.
Like that that's that race looksit does look cool.
Uh all right.
What do you think?
Is there anything we you don'tthink we didn't hit?
I feel like we hit kind of someof the major things, threw some
speculation in there, um gotsome hot takes.
(23:39):
Yeah.
Anything you want to add to itor you think we got it all?
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Uh I think we touched on just about
everything.
I guess just I know we've beenhearing rumblings of this for a
while with this North Americanseries, and I guess I had
different um a different idea ofwhat that would be, but having
this come to fruition and thisnews coming out, I think this is
the best case.
Uh I just I didn't expect thereto be a um official World Series
(24:08):
event here, so it's it'samazing.
Yeah.
unknown (24:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
I think it's gonna be a dream come true for some
people.
I think people are gonna finallybe able to do their sky race.
It's gonna be right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
I the one thing I will say that kind of slipped my
mind is I am surprised the Rutis not like an official
certified course or a part of itbecause they were a part of it
in 2019, the 28k, um previousyears.
I um I don't think they give ashit.
I think they just want to put ontheir own and have a good time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Yeah, it and and we don't know what having that ISF
certified like what does thatexactly mean?
Like how much power the skyyeah, how much how much the sky
running have control over it?
Maybe the rut's like, hey, we'reour own thing, we don't want to
be which is respect to them,it's an incredible race.
Um it's the second biggest racecontrol.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
We just don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Second behind Broken Arrow?
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yeah, I think I pretty broken arrow is a little
bit bigger.
I want to say broken arrow isprobably the biggest trail race
in the country.
I'm I'm pretty sure.
And I would say if they're thebiggest, then rut's the second
biggest.
Something like that.
I mean, you're saying thousandsof people.
Pikes is uh how many people areI should know this.
Uh I literally just looked atthe numbers like two days ago.
I think we have 1900.
A couple thousand nineteenhundred in the ascent or two
(25:18):
thousand.
Short of two thousand.
So it's close.
I'd say, but as many races, youknow.
Um we'll see if that changes.
But yeah.
Yeah, but uh all right, man.
SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
Paul, it was a pleasure.
I'm glad we got to break thisneoze together.
It's super exciting, and Iappreciate you having me on to
chat about it.
Absolutely, dude.
SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
More more unfolding as we go.
This is gonna come out uh in Igot one more podcast after this,
and then this will come out.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
I'll be in touch.
Sounds good.
Hardest working podcaster in thegame, everyone.
James, heck yeah.
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Awesome.
We're good.
Sweet.
All right, this will just this.
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Lauriello,and today I'm so excited to be
joined by frequent co-host NickTusa for a special podcast
that's right, an emergency show.
This one specifically becausethe World Skyrunner series is
back in the United States forthe first time since 2019.
(00:20):
So it demanded a conversation.
The Beast of Big Creek 23K raceon the Olympic Peninsula of
Washington has just beenannounced, and I thought it was
definitely something worthconversating about.
We don't just talk about thisrace, we speculate on what else
the USA Skyrunning is going topossibly announce throughout the
rest of the next few weeks,maybe into the new year.
(00:42):
We do dissect this race in itsentirety.
We talk about its elevationgain.
We talk about all differentkinds of things.
It's definitely fun.
And like I said, there's a lotof speculation on what's to come
and uh if we think this is goingto be a successful go or not.
I think it's all exciting stuffeither way, and uh definitely
demanding of a conversation.
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
(01:05):
Uh World Sky Running Chat on theBeast of Big Creek with Nick
Tusa.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, we on the All right,
boom.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
Nick Tusa, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
It's been a minute, dude.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Dude, it has uh I'm amazing.
Even more amazing hearing thisnews that we're about to talk
about.
I know.
It's pretty exciting stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
We are on the pod right now for an emergency
podcast.
This is the first of its kind.
I've never done anything likethis before.
But I think this news, I feellike I significantly dropped the
ball on uh Broken Arrow.
And but like Free Trail coveredit, and then it was on like
every other thing.
So I was like, all right, we'regonna cover this.
We're gonna be the first on thisone, at least.
(02:52):
Um, so yeah, big news.
Uh, the US or World SkyrunningSeries is coming back to the
United States for the first timesince 2019.
Uh named the Beast of Big Creek.
It's gonna be the race.
Um, set on the Olympic Peninsulain Washington.
You know what's funny, dude?
I gotta ask him, I don't know ifthis was like legit or not, but
(03:13):
I wonder if this was like a umif some people knew about this
going in that were notaffiliated with the Skyrunner
series.
The only reason I say that isbecause I was listening to a
single track episode a minuteago, um, and it was uh and it
was Jeff um Cole?
Yeah, Jeff Cole.
And he said something aboutdoing like a racing series or
(03:34):
like that's the place forskyrunning.
And so either it was like amassive coincidence or he knew
it.
He was just like dropping ahint.
So I don't know.
I feel like um the other thing,too, that I find really funny
about this is uh we had kind ofknown that Beast of Big Creek
had some sort of affiliation onthe USA Skyrunning site, they
were an ISF affiliated course,so I immediately kind of had an
(03:54):
idea.
I asked around to a bunch ofpeople trying to do some
investigative journalism.
Uh, nobody could give me astraight answer, or everybody
kind of refused to give me astraight answer.
And sure as shit, CoreyWoltering accidentally spilled
the beans last night, so I knewa little bit ahead of time, and
here we are.
So okay, because he's partneredwith Merrill, so he had a little
(04:15):
insight.
Okay, got it, got it.
You know what's funny?
He thought he said it on thepodcast that we recorded, texted
me about it, and I was like, no,you never said that.
Oh man.
So now the now the cat's out ofthe bag, news is done.
Yeah.
Uh so what do you think?
Uh do you think what do youthink about the course?
We could talk and go into the uhthe nitty-gritty on the course
and and everything from there,but so far, like what do you
(04:37):
what do you think, man?
Especially for someone like thatwants to do a race.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
100%.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's exciting thatit's it's actually a course that
you know not a lot of peopleprobably know of.
I imagine it's mostly peoplethat are maybe local or in the
Seattle area or Washington areathat maybe have heard of this um
race.
I know it's only gone on ahandful of times.
Um, so it'll be fun to like geta group of people there at a
place that they have never been.
There's no um no advantage hereor anything like that.
(05:04):
Um, but yeah, the course is like14 miles-ish.
Uh, I think 22k is what I sawwith right around a little over
5,300 feet of gain, so a littleunder like 2,000 meters.
Um great climb, steep.
There's not many options in thestates here where you're
exceeding 20 plus percent gradein races.
There's maybe a handful outthere, and this is one of them.
(05:26):
Um, yeah, the race starts out, alittle detail about it.
Uh, first like four-ish miles isabout like a 10% grade climb,
and climbs up to a pretty steep20 plus percent grade, uh,
pretty technical section, andthen you're kind of rolling
down, and it just looks like aperfect up-down format, peaks
out at 6,000 feet.
I heard the the peak isbeautiful.
(05:47):
Um, yeah, it's it's incredible.
I mean, I've been wantingpersonally, and I know a lot of
people have have been dreamingof running uh an international
sky race, and to have theopportunity to have it somewhat
in our backyard is uh is prettyincredible.
Um and we found out too thatthis race is going to be
incentivized a little bit.
Um, it's going to have 1.5 timesthe points.
(06:09):
So I'm guessing the reasoningfor doing that was to get some
more people to make the tripover from Europe.
So hopefully we get some Eurosout there, you know.
I would I would love to tow theline with some of them.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Yeah, I find it really interesting.
I think this was a good choice.
And the only like a couple ofthe reasons I'll put that out
there is you think about whyUTMB bought Speed Goat, right?
Well, the obviously location,accessibility, easiness to get
to an airport.
So I think all of those thingskind of click in the same way
for a race like this.
You're not super far fromsomething like Seattle.
So international athletes andjust athletes from around the
(06:41):
country can come uh fly rightin.
It's close to the big hub, um,beautiful area.
It's not really at altitude.
Uh I'm using top 6,000 feet,which I wouldn't classify as
really altitude.
Obviously at the top, but belowis not that big of a deal.
Um yeah, I think it checks kindof all the boxes as far as the
US.
I just find it interesting as towhy there, but I guess it makes
(07:04):
sense.
I I have to be honest with you.
I was really as far as likeputting my Tim Foyle hat on and
speculation cap, like I thoughtit was gonna be in the Wasatch.
I've heard rumblings fromdifferent people that there was
gonna be a new race somewhere inthe Wasatch, and they were
looking at permitting and tryingto figure that out, and and
maybe that still comes tofruition.
Um, you know how I feel aboutthe creation of races just for a
(07:27):
series.
I'm not a big fan of that.
Um but that said, um I I thinkthis was a this is something
new.
This is something different.
Like it's got a few years of uhuh I'm curious.
Actually, let me piggyback onthis one more thing.
The the finish times, did youlook at some of the finish
times?
They're actually pretty fast.
Like I did, yeah, yeah.
(07:48):
Yeah, a little over two hours.
Yeah.
I feel like that's a fast skyrace or relatively fast.
But yes, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Yeah, we'll see.
Yeah, I I'm sure I I could seesomeone even going under two
hours, which would be pretty,pretty crazy, but um, but yeah,
do we know for sure that that isthe course that they're gonna go
with the sky race, the quoteunquote course?
Because they have a separatecourse as well that ends up
being 30k with closer to 2,000meters, you know, 6,000 plus
(08:15):
feet of gain.
Um and that seems to be kind ofwhat Skyrunning caters to, kind
of that distance.
I feel like 22k would maybe beon the shorter side, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
I don't know.
Uh the the race directors aregonna come on on next week.
So we'll get more informationsome more info on that.
Uh I I'm just curious to know,like, how the hell did you get
like I know it's been a longtime coming that we've been
trying to get USA Sky, liketrying to get Sky Running back
in the United States.
That said, how the hell did theyget the race?
Like, of all races, it's kind ofan obscure it's a great
(08:48):
location, great course.
How the hell do they pull thatoff, though?
That's the story I want to knowabout.
Like, how do we get that um getthat done?
All right, I want to deviatefrom this a little bit because
I'm putting my tinfoil hat onagain.
Um I did talk to USA SkyRunning.
I've I invited them on thepodcast today to join you uh and
and myself, and they turned medown uh because there's more
(09:09):
announcements coming.
That's all I've been told.
That makes me feel like uhthere's a national series
coming, and I don't want to leakanything because I don't really
know, but my that's my guess isthat there's gonna be, from what
I understand, one to a few moreraces announced.
Now, uh I'm gonna tighten thattinfoil hat down a little bit
more.
And if I go to USA Sky Running'swebsite, it's pretty
(09:31):
straightforward.
We've got the Broken Arrow 23Kon there, which is now an
officially ISF certified course,and the White Face Sky Race in
uh the Northeast taking place onJuly 4th.
Guys, could that's the time youwant to have this race in July
4th?
Anyway, uh and the Whiteface VK.
So I feel like there's gonna bemore announcements coming.
(09:51):
I don't know if they correlateexactly to these ISF certified
courses, but these are the onlyISF certified courses in the
United States.
So I would wonder if we aregoing to be getting an
announcement from Broken Arrowin the near distant future when
they're ready to announce it,uh, that this would be part of
an either a national skyrunningseries of some kind, or in
(10:12):
whatever way, shape, or formthat this is a USA sky running
race.
Um the same thing withWhiteface.
I I think I love Broken Arrow,and it is you know, like it's a
very difficult course.
There's a lot of likeinteresting aspects to it.
I am more interested to hearmore from the Whiteface stuff,
just because broken arrow is alot of fanfare, a lot of people
going, like that race in its ownright, like it that doesn't
(10:35):
really add a ton to broken arrowto me because broken arrow is
already popular, already hasthis allure, it's already
amazing and world-class whatthey put on.
But I am curious aboutWhiteface.
Like um, they have a mountainrace, they have a sky race, they
have a VK.
And those the mountain race andthe sky race are two different
courses.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
Yes.
Yep.
I know they do that typically onweekends where they'll have like
a VK as well as the Sky Raceoption.
Um so yeah, I don't know.
I'm looking a little bit closerhere, and they actually do have
it listed.
They have like the exactdistances inverts.
So to go back on what we werechatting about with the beast of
Big Creek, it looks like 23kwith 1600 meters.
(11:15):
So yeah, that's probably thecourse.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
It'd be a fast race too.
Like I said, oh yeah.
If someone's running 223 on anon-skyrunning year, someone's
going under two hours easily onskyrunning year.
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
The technical level too is stated to be a level one,
so I would assume I don't knowsky running's criteria for that.
I know it can get extremelytechnical if you're looking at
like the races, like theMatterhorn.
Um that race is insane.
But yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
unknown (11:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Um yeah, so uh a couple like thoughts here.
I think the first one is uh I'mseeing parallels with Skyrunning
to Cirque Series.
What did Cirque Series do in2025?
They went to the Northeast andthen they went to the Pacific
Northwest.
What is USA Skyrunning doing, orwhat is Skyrunning now doing?
They're in the Pacific Northwestand now they're in the
Northeast.
(12:05):
This is a speculation.
I don't really know if they'regonna be in the northeast.
I wonder why I'm gonna guessthat they're in the northeast.
Um, I mean, I think there's realpockets of I think there's
opportunities in all thesedifferent places, obviously,
pockets of mountain runners inthe Pacific Northwest, um, where
there's a large fan base.
And I think the same thing inthe Northeast.
The Northeast trail scene foryears and years and years, in my
(12:26):
opinion, not only has been slepton, but if you really wanted to,
you could do a whole short trailseason out there.
Yeah, incredible.
Yeah.
So I yeah, I can't help butspeculate that uh the success of
the Cirque series might bemoving the market a little bit
and pushing races to uh to tryto contend, which is
interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
So good luck.
Well, I know so we know GoldenTrail, they had a national
series at one point, which theydiscontinued, I believe this
year was the first year thatthey didn't have it, 2025.
I wonder if they're taking somenotes maybe from that their book
saying, hey, they don't have itnow, maybe we could be the ones
to do it.
(13:04):
Because I feel like they areessentially they're directly
competing with each other.
I mean, in a sense, it is alittle bit different, but the
same.
SPEAKER_00 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah, it's really it's it is strange.
The uh the national series kindof concept.
Like, I don't know why they canjust like expand the calendar
and put a couple different WorldSeries, like make White or Bro
like I don't know how it wouldwork for Broken Arrow to be a
World Series race or how likethat would work with them.
I mean, if there's any race thatwould be a World Series race in
the United States, there's onlya few I can think of.
(13:34):
Broken Arrow is is one of them,just because infrastructure in
place that is a damn well-runevent.
I think that's in my opinion theAmerican standard when it comes
to racing in America, outside ofmaybe the Rut and a few others.
But uh, what Brandon's been ableto create there, in my opinion,
um like just infrastructure-wiseand the course and just
everything that you need inplace to put on a world-class
(13:55):
event, that is what we would dois broken arrow.
Like, that's the place to do it.
Um, but I don't know.
There, dude, so all right, I'llgive you some backstory here.
And I'll be honest with you, asI I'm still learning this as I
go, so if I misspeak, uh, it'sbecause I don't have fully the
right information.
But I understand there is theWorld Skyrunner series, and then
there's the ISF, which is theInternational Skyrunning uh not
(14:17):
Foundation, ISF FederationFederation, excuse me, thank
you.
And they're kind of twodifferent things there's the
racing series and the worldseries, but then as far as the
ISF goes, the InternationalSkyrunning Federation, this is
why I wanted to have people fromUSA skyrunning on here to help
explain this to me.
Um, but I understand that that'sthe governing body, so they're
(14:37):
the ones that are gonna come inand say this course um meets the
standards of the InternationalSkyrunning Federation, so
therefore we can sanction thisas a skyrunning race, and
therefore I guess the WorldSeries of Skyrunning can hold a
held a race on that, if thatmakes sense.
Okay.
Um but I still think it's kindof two separate entities, from
what I understand.
So always does does do they doesit is a copacetic, from what I
(15:02):
get.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Um that is interesting.
I I feel like they would benefitif they were if they were one.
Um just because how I see itwith like the national series
playing out kind of similar tothe golden trail side of things
where uh people have anopportunity to become known or
whatever at these nationalseries events and maybe get the
(15:22):
invite out to a coupleinternational events and then
get their feet wet there, andthen maybe they're fully
sponsored, and boom, they havean opportunity.
Um I just think they're they'relooking for more competition, I
imagine.
It's yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
No, I agree, I agree.
I do find it really interestingtoo, and uh pretty cool.
Um like I said, I think this isthe maybe the the flood, like it
opens the floodgates for more.
And I think it's another thingthat we've got really good
athletes in the country that dogo over there.
There's not many of them, but dorace at that level over there,
and hopefully we can there canmore can be done, is what I'm
(16:00):
trying to say, to createeducation for younger athletes
coming up uh that might beinterested in something like
this.
Because you gotta remember, it'slike especially in America, it's
track and field.
Once you come off track andfield, maybe at the collegiate
level, what do you usually do?
Usually you're going to acertain space.
Yeah.
If you want to do something alittle bit longer, generally
it's straight to the goldentrail series.
I mean, that's where that'swhere the sport kind of takes in
(16:23):
all of the um talent, if youwill, generally.
Some do go to skyrunning, but itwould be cool if they had an
additional option.
Like Karin Anderson's a reallygood example.
She's a young gun from uh uh shewas at UC, and then I think she
went to Mines.
And from Mines uh goes andcompetes at the World Skyrim
series.
Um Robin, uh, who I just saw onthe podcast, Robin's another one
(16:45):
who goes over and competes abunch.
Um, so there's people floatingaround.
I just think we need more maybediscussion and education around
the subject so that all of thetalent just doesn't go straight
to Golden Trail.
And uh that's that's theunfortunate part.
But I don't know.
I think the only negative thingfrom the calendar release that I
saw this morning is I'm reallybummed Minotaur is not a race on
(17:08):
there right now.
That sucks because that's areally good race.
Now youth skyrunning.
See, this is where I getconfused because now it's also
the youth sky North American skyrunning final, but it's not a
world sky running race.
I'm so confused.
This is where you lose me.
Yeah.
Uh get that.
(17:29):
Yeah.
So we got a gov basically it'slike the governing body and then
it's like the series, and it'slike two separate, kind of a
separate separate things.
But with their post thismorning, Skyrunning and the Sky
Running Federation posted thatin tandem to put out the
calendar for this year.
So obviously, we're good eye intandem.
(17:49):
I'm actually on the page rightnow, so it's not not that good
of an observation.
Um calendar is as follows (17:52):
four refugios, the Merrill Andy Sky
Race, Acatodales to de North, uhthe Calamaro Sky Race, the
Penyang Sky Race, the Sky Racede Masin, uh the Ueda Sky Race,
Sky Race de Gourge du Tarn,Yarding Sky Race, um, and then a
whole bunch leading up to uhBeast of Big and then
(18:16):
Matterhorn, Trofo Chemo, whichis a bi-annual race.
Uh, super excited for TrofoChemo to come back onto the
series.
I was excited to see that.
Dude, if there's one race thatyou should do in Europe, that's
that's probably the one.
You gotta wear a helmet.
It's so cool.
I know.
It's so cool.
Uh so and one thing I did noticeas well, they cut the calendar
down.
(18:36):
So the calendar is substantiallyless races this year, uh, than
in previous years, which I thinkis better.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
I think it's better for competition, way better.
SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yeah, competition.
Uh there's gonna be lessdilution uh at the top.
I think there's it's better forstorytelling, um, you know, from
a social media perspective andfrom YouTube to be able to tell
the stories of these athletes.
Uh, I think it's better allaround.
I I like that's something Ireally like from Golden Trail
series.
It's just I don't know, handfulto seven races.
Um and they're it's condensed,right?
(19:08):
There's a lot more weight put onit.
Whereas with the SkyrunnersWorld Series, there's I would
say almost less weight put tosome races, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yeah, it's a bummer to only see one North American
race on the official calendar.
SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
Yeah, I would have preferred.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
And then one of Mexico or yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Yeah, Mexico.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Yeah.
I wonder, I'm curious how theypicked these um these these
races that have the 1.5 X pointswith a red star that's next to
them there.
I don't know.
If they're just trying to getpeople to certain ones, like
there's one in Japan, Argentina,France, and yeah, I don't know.
(19:52):
Yeah, it's exciting.
It's it's uh This is gonna be abig um I think a big jump for
Sky Running after this year.
I think I think it's gonna be ona lot more people's map and
radar.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
Well, I feel like I think in my opinion, uh like
Golden Trail is the best game intown right now.
And I think that but and Iposted this yesterday, and it's
not it's not just me that'spicked up on this, it's a lot of
athletes.
You'd be surprised the amount ofpeople that have messaged me and
be like, huh.
Like this makes sense too.
Um just the dilution, it seemslike, in Golden Trail, maybe
(20:30):
losing a little bit of a luster,like luster than they've had in
previous years.
Um it seems like there's just alot of consolidation at the top.
Um same athletes seem to bewinning, at least on the men's
side.
There's some mix-up on thewomen's side, but generally not
as much.
Um for so long it's been GoldenTrail, been the only game in
(20:50):
town.
It seemed like Skyrunner made ahuge push maybe two years ago in
2024.
Um, Merrill was more it seemedlike when Merrill came on board,
more branching out, more athletesignings, more investment.
Um, and I think that's been ahuge lifeblood for that series
and it's helped a ton.
Um, but I think if you want togain traction in the North
American audience, yeah, yougotta have more races.
(21:11):
Like, so I think that that wouldmake sense to me as to why
they're gonna be putting, or Iwould guess it's at least one
more race or a national seriesof some kind.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
And maybe it's just a PLO.
Maybe maybe they're doing this,these national series in a few
select countries, and they'rejust seeing how the
participation is and and whatcomes out of it.
And if it's good, then it'slike, well, let's expand on
that.
It seems like a no-brainer.
SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
Yeah.
Well, and the thing is too, islike I get where golden trail's
going.
Like Greg is in love with thatflower format.
Why?
Why do you think?
Because he wants to take thatthe Olympics, right?
And be able to pitch that aslike the the standard for the
Olympic Games when they try togo for sky or trail running.
Skyrunning's not gonna be anOlympic sport, like it's it's
just it's just too much its ownthing.
(21:54):
At least I don't think so.
It's more uh more part of thesoul of the sport, the technical
aspect.
Like, I I find it to be justcompletely something completely
different.
So I would guess that I don'tknow.
Like, I and I don't I'm notreally a big fan of the flower
format either.
I have to be honest.
Like, I don't think that that isuh it's the best way maybe of
storytelling from a TVperspective.
(22:16):
Um, but as far as like just therace experience, like you can't
tell me you're gonna take aflower format like Kobe and
compare that to something likeTrophokema.
It's two different worlds, youknow.
Um athlete said something to methat was very interesting is
that you know they felt verystrongly that Golden Trail
become more of a cross countrystyle race.
(22:37):
Was like, whoa.
I was like, that I got gearsturning in my head.
All right, I was like,interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Yeah, they're definitely not catering to the
runners, they're catering to themedia, the exposure to it, the
yeah, easiness of doing it,which is unfortunate, but I
don't know.
I would rather have an aestheticline that's point-to-point or
that's like a perfect loop, orit makes sense, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And I feel like Skyrunning doesthat pretty pretty well.
(23:07):
Um, I feel like they haven'tdone any any flower format or
anything like that.
Um their races seem to be verytraditional.
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, nothing into the accord oflike actually um yeah, it's not
like made for TV, you know.
No, yeah, we gotta do, we gottawe gotta go do Sky Race day
maths in.
Like that that's that race looksit does look cool.
Uh all right.
What do you think?
Is there anything we you don'tthink we didn't hit?
I feel like we hit kind of someof the major things, threw some
speculation in there, um gotsome hot takes.
(23:39):
Yeah.
Anything you want to add to itor you think we got it all?
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Uh I think we touched on just about
everything.
I guess just I know we've beenhearing rumblings of this for a
while with this North Americanseries, and I guess I had
different um a different idea ofwhat that would be, but having
this come to fruition and thisnews coming out, I think this is
the best case.
Uh I just I didn't expect thereto be a um official World Series
(24:08):
event here, so it's it'samazing.
Yeah.
unknown (24:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
I think it's gonna be a dream come true for some
people.
I think people are gonna finallybe able to do their sky race.
It's gonna be right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
I the one thing I will say that kind of slipped my
mind is I am surprised the Rutis not like an official
certified course or a part of itbecause they were a part of it
in 2019, the 28k, um previousyears.
I um I don't think they give ashit.
I think they just want to put ontheir own and have a good time.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Yeah, it and and we don't know what having that ISF
certified like what does thatexactly mean?
Like how much power the skyyeah, how much how much the sky
running have control over it?
Maybe the rut's like, hey, we'reour own thing, we don't want to
be which is respect to them,it's an incredible race.
Um it's the second biggest racecontrol.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
We just don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Second behind Broken Arrow?
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Yeah, I think I pretty broken arrow is a little
bit bigger.
I want to say broken arrow isprobably the biggest trail race
in the country.
I'm I'm pretty sure.
And I would say if they're thebiggest, then rut's the second
biggest.
Something like that.
I mean, you're saying thousandsof people.
Pikes is uh how many people areI should know this.
Uh I literally just looked atthe numbers like two days ago.
I think we have 1900.
A couple thousand nineteenhundred in the ascent or two
(25:18):
thousand.
Short of two thousand.
So it's close.
I'd say, but as many races, youknow.
Um we'll see if that changes.
But yeah.
Yeah, but uh all right, man.
SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
Paul, it was a pleasure.
I'm glad we got to break thisneoze together.
It's super exciting, and Iappreciate you having me on to
chat about it.
Absolutely, dude.
SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
More more unfolding as we go.
This is gonna come out uh in Igot one more podcast after this,
and then this will come out.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
I'll be in touch.
Sounds good.
Hardest working podcaster in thegame, everyone.
James, heck yeah.
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Awesome.
We're good.
Sweet.
All right, this will just this.
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