We're experimenting with a first for us on the podcast: a shorter, condensed version where we (Andrew and Sam) cover off what has been happening recently in and around the lab.
This conversation includes updates on:
- Our new site that is being built in the Monash Precinct
- Our civic science hub, BioQuisitive and it's relaunch
- Two of our members that are graduating!
- A few new members that are coming on board
Still Curious? Check out what we're up to:
Or sign up for our newsletter to keep in the loop.
This experimental and emergent podcast will continue adapting and evolving in response to our ever-changing environment and the community we support. If there are any topics you'd like us to cover, folks you'd like us to bring onto the show, or live events you feel would benefit the ecosystem, drop us a line at hello@colabs.com.au.
We're working on and supporting a range of community-led, impact-oriented initiatives spanning conservation, bioremediation, synthetic biology, biomaterials, and systems innovation.
If you have an idea that has the potential to support the thriving of people and the planet, get in contact! We'd love to help you bring your bio-led idea to life.
Otherwise, join our online community of innovators and change-makers via this link.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Samuel Wines (00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the
Strange Attractor.
This week, something a littlebit different.
We're just trialing giving offlittle updates and sound bites
about what's going on here atColabs and within our
organizational ecosystem.
So this one is just going to bea conversation with Andrew and
(00:21):
myself, short and sweet, justwith some updates.
So thank you for listening.
Alright, so it's been a whilesince we've sat down for our, I
guess, a round of updates fromwhat's going on at Colabs and
within our, I guess, ecosystemof organizations that we also
(00:44):
have.
So is there anything that youfeel like leading with?
Andrew Gray (00:51):
Well, quick update on the Monash site.
Yeah, I think that's reallyexciting watching that finally
begin construction and seeingall the movement happening on
site.
Samuel Wines (01:03):
There's that little spider looking robot.
Andrew Gray (01:06):
It reminds me of a cartoon.
Samuel Wines (01:09):
What was it?
What was it for Holding?
Andrew Gray (01:11):
yeah, bringing up steel, I think, the steel
purlings and stuff to hold themin place.
Samuel Wines (01:17):
I just want one, I know, just to do tasks, just
hold this stick.
Andrew Gray (01:21):
for me it only weighs a couple tons.
Samuel Wines (01:27):
Yeah, that's coming along really well.
I'm really looking forward togetting the renders being able
to sort of share what's going on.
I had quite a few peopleobviously reaching out in the
last little bit about space downthere, so it'll be great to be
able to be like, hey, this iswhat it's going to look like,
yeah 100% space collaborationopportunities.
Andrew Gray (01:47):
There's a lot of amazing initiatives down there.
Obviously, monash University isthere, csro is there.
We've had a lot to do and talkabout with the generator down in
Monash.
That's exciting.
The Monash Innovation Labs,csro On Program.
The Victorian Heart HospitalInstitute.
Samuel Wines (02:08):
Yeah, and what about?
There was stuff with Silvio andyeah, yeah, the smart CRC.
Andrew Gray (02:15):
So becoming a partner of a CRC and how we
support regenerative medicinehere in Australia and Victoria,
which will be really exciting,and there will be GMP space
right next door for processingand manufacturing regenerative
cell based therapies.
Samuel Wines (02:34):
Awesome, and then also a little bit off to the
tangent, but another Monashpotential collaborator would be
the MC3S, the MonashConsciousness, cognition and
Contemplative Studies space.
So being chatting with Meganand Beth about finding ways to
collaborate with them on theinterdevelopment goal stuff and
(02:54):
then even anything to do withinnovation within that space,
which is kind of, I think,really fun and awesome I think
that'll be a really exciting wayof getting in, just giving
Megan's background inentrepreneurship over in the
States and everything.
So yeah, quite an interesting,unlikely connection.
Andrew Gray (03:13):
Unlikely and likely .
Samuel Wines (03:15):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (03:16):
You know, just amazed by the number of people
and just the diversity in peoplewe meet through this and things
that we care about and arepursuing initiative wise and
yeah, doubling down on theexcited note there for doing
more with them.
I think they bring with them alot of experience and great
(03:36):
understanding of what the techlike, what a massive tech
industry and tech ecosystemlooks like over in the West.
Samuel Wines (03:44):
And where's it dead from again?
Andrew Gray (03:49):
The Monash Center for Nanofabrication.
Samuel Wines (03:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So another potential partner.
There is Relics for Pretty Cool.
Andrew Gray (03:55):
Lots of amazing stuff happening there as well
the Synchotron Monash IVF.
There's Heaps.
Samuel Wines (04:02):
Yeah, and even even like, hopefully, like it
would be pretty cool to be ableto maybe collaborate with like
Biopria and like the other folksI guess interested in the
material economy.
Like there's been a lot ofinterests.
I mean, we're obviously writingthe report and we're exploring
this sort of stuff throughanother venture, like what might
a regenerative material economylook like?
What might a more circularbio-based textiles industry look
(04:28):
like?
You know what about packaging,all of these sorts of things?
So it's exciting to be able tobe closer to, I guess, world
leading laboratories exploringthis sort of space.
Andrew Gray (04:38):
Yeah, and they're.
You know the expertise.
It's been interesting being inBrunswick.
I feel like there's a reallybig demand for that type of
experience.
With everybody here I feel likelives and breathes that sort of
alternative material, whetherit's fungi-based materials,
bioplastics.
So it's interesting being inBrunswick when you know we'll
(04:58):
have this sort of network.
I guess that kind of speaks towhat we're trying to set up,
which is a node you know a setof nodes around Australia that
can allow for the, as you wouldsay, transfer of nutrients like
mycelial network.
Samuel Wines (05:12):
That's it.
I was itching for me to get inthere and save mycelial network.
But yeah, it really does feellike a dissent, like we it's.
It's one thing to say thesethings, like I love saying
things, but it's another thingfor them to actually be coming
to fruition, like the fruitingbody of a mushroom, okay, I
gotcha, yeah anyway.
(05:35):
So Monash site, that's superexciting.
I'm really I'm really curiousto see who will be our first few
strings of members down there.
Not like I mean, we've had alot of interest in the, you know
, the 100, 200 square sort oflab pod side of things.
I'm really curious about what'ssmaller startups.
Andrew Gray (05:56):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the area that I
love to.
I love about what we do, whichis helping the ideas go from
idea to reality.
I like that, that moment tokind of hit the bench, and then
you know, things start upmorphing and evolving and
tackling all the challenges thatcome with that.
So whether it's infrastructure,connections, whatever, and then
(06:18):
you know, like we like to say,being the uncle, so you get to
spoil it with all the attentionand help you can, and then you
know, let it grow.
Samuel Wines (06:26):
Yeah, speaking of let it grow, I mean we're gonna
have two alumni this, yeah, thismonth.
So we've got um, old leatherare going to be graduating,
moving down to work, uh, moreclosely with Biopria.
Just obviously they need thatsort of equipment.
And then also CIMEX aregraduating, so they'll be
(06:47):
heading over to Jumma BioIncubator and then tapping into
that network of infrastructurethere which is awesome, and then
maybe in the future down toMonash, who knows?
but it's exciting to see thatthere's movement and that these
things that I mean just even inthat email that sort of Ed got
(07:09):
sent to us right is like.
You know, if it wasn't forthese the space that CoLab has
provided for that sort of price,you know there wouldn't be a
CIMEX, which is, um, it's prettycool, you know, getting
feedback like that from ourmembers and just being able to
support that really early stage.
I mean, that's why we existright.
Andrew Gray (07:30):
I'm just yeah.
So I was just sort of staringoff into the distance just
thinking about how much time isactually.
I was looking at all the timethat's passed over there and
just yeah, you know, I thinkwe've been trying to sort of
acknowledge every week as itpasses, but time does still fly
and it's yeah, like you said,amazing, Both of them moving,
you know, growing off the backof two successful raises.
(07:52):
Both, yeah, I think all leatheris about one mil and then one
point one, one point one yeah,and then CIMEX was about two, so
oh, nice.
Samuel Wines (08:01):
Yeah, I didn't realize that they closed that
much.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I need to factor that into ourstats and.
I definitely have not factoredthat in.
Oh, that's so exciting, Cool.
So that kind of probably wrapsup everything from a CoLab's
updates perspective.
Aside from you know there's afood hack event on next week, so
(08:24):
that should be fun.
There's a few more things we'regoing to be looking at doing
coming up as well from thatfront.
Oh, we actually know, almostalmost wraps it up.
We've brought on another hire.
Soon, yeah, Soon hire.
Maybe Monday soon.
Andrew Gray (08:40):
Yeah, that's pretty soon.
Actually that's pretty soon.
Samuel Wines (08:42):
Yeah, so that's going to be exciting having
another human around to be ableto help with this space.
So Georgina is coming on board,which will be pretty cool.
Andrew Gray (08:51):
Yeah, she's been doing a stellar job with AusCelp
, just jumping into science, youknow, having not really come
from that discipline.
Samuel Wines (09:00):
Political economics background yeah.
Andrew Gray (09:02):
Just driven, driven by her passion for all things
kelp, and that has literallyovercome a lot of learning
barriers and challenges.
You know, we see a lot inuniversity and anybody really
trying to learn something.
Passion is just really anamazing catalyst for learning.
Samuel Wines (09:22):
And that curiosity just like leaning into things.
Andrew Gray (09:26):
I love that she names all the kelp like all the
kelp cultures have differentnames.
Samuel Wines (09:30):
This is Barbara.
Andrew Gray (09:31):
Pam Beasley, kimberly.
We're having a.
Unfortunately we're having akelp funeral.
I think one of the we did alittle side experiment that got
contaminated.
Samuel Wines (09:41):
She mentioned, she was very upset, yeah, so we're
going to have an actual.
Andrew Gray (09:45):
It'll be awake later.
Samuel Wines (09:47):
Okay, well, I'll make sure I I'll come down and
pay my respects.
Andrew Gray (09:51):
But it's yeah, it's been going great.
Auscelp's been going great,they've been ramping up
operations and, yeah, I'll beexciting to have you know
Georgina's expertise in the lab,but also her expertise just in
strategy and helping us out.
Samuel Wines (10:07):
I agree, I agree and on that strategy, note
what's we, I mean?
Obviously posted an update nottoo long ago the looking at
relaunching BioQ as a civicscience hub.
Andrew Gray (10:23):
Yeah, yeah, so changing the name.
So originally, bioqizidiv was,I guess, referred to as a
community lab and there willdefinitely be a lab component in
the civic science hub concept.
And I think what the civicscience hub idea is about is
creating a blueprint to createmore of these sort of spaces
that provide and open up andbasically democratize access to
(10:45):
science for the public, whichwe've seen so many benefits from
.
I mean, that's you know, thatwas my, I guess, journey and how
I got here and some of theconnections that we have and
some of the members we have alsocame from that.
So it's you know it's difficultwhen your first enterprise is a
(11:05):
charity because you justundervalue everything and you're
not really thinking about thebusiness side of things.
You're just doing it passion,wise, and that's great and, you
know, bring a lot of people in,but often what happens is you're
trying to push things along atthe expense of yourself and it's
just not sustainable.
So now that you know things are, they're happening with co labs
(11:27):
and some of the otherinitiatives, I feel like we can
properly resource that and giveit the attention and support it
deserves as well as a community.
Samuel Wines (11:34):
Yeah, and I can't remember it was one of the
professors at ETH Universityover in Switzerland was going on
about the so for transformativeinnovation and all of this sort
of stuff that we're looking atsupporting, the start of that
value chain is is education andfundamental research, not even
(11:58):
necessarily directed research oflike a.
All right, let's try and find away to apply this straight away
.
But, like Einstein's work onthe theory of relativity, he
never would have thought that 40, 50 years later that would be
what governs our satellites.
You know like there is a needfor this.
Exploratory curiosity led wayfor people to just relate to
(12:20):
science, design, innovation,whatever it might be, and then
from that seeing what kind ofemerges.
Andrew Gray (12:25):
And yeah, yeah, I totally agree, and I think the
other important distinction tomake is that it needs to be a
part of, not separate to agree,yeah.
So, like with universities andother, like pretty much our
education system, it's basically, you know, you know this is a
education department, this is,you know, this department, that
(12:46):
department, everything's adepartment, you know this,
compartmentalized,departmentalized, yeah, yeah
which comes with that.
Samuel Wines (12:53):
I guess that reductionist sort of mechanistic
thinking of wanting to tickboxes or put things in
categories, which is it's leftbrain.
It's great, don't get me wrong.
It's got us this far, but whenwe're facing uncertainty and the
challenges that we are going tohave to come up against in the
next sort of 50 to 100 yearsplus, like that style of
thinking will be way less fitfor purpose.
Andrew Gray (13:15):
I think, yeah, I agree with that, and it'll be
interesting to see where we'reat in that, you know, timeframe,
as you mentioned.
Currently it is.
I think the current educationsystem we have is doing an
amazing job.
You know, I got a chance towork with some amazing
initiatives like the Monash TechSchool it's part of the
Victorian Tech SchoolsInitiative and just some of the.
Just the engagement that we hadin STEM through the programs
(13:37):
and just the amazing people downthere that I got to work with
was phenomenal to see.
You could see it, with all thestudents leaving at the end of
the day just completely drainedbecause they just they were
being, you know, shown all thesedifferent technologies.
They got their hands oneverything, all sorts of
workflows crammed into like oneor two or three days, and it was
very rewarding.
(13:57):
So I think really, the civicscience hub is trying to support
those types of initiatives, andall by creating alternative
pathways for people to get intoeducation.
So previously, what we saw oftenwas people that are, you know,
members of the public thatweren't necessarily
participating in education.
(14:18):
So they maybe had done theiryear 12 or something like that,
and then they went out to theworkforce, got a job came to buy
a quesitive and suddenly we'regetting hands on with stuff and,
like you said, really justcuriosity, exploratory work or
participating in other people'sprojects and helping them out
and then using that as a chanceto learn, collaborate,
(14:38):
inevitably go and ask you knowwhat would it be like to go back
to uni or to go to uni?
And so we've.
You know we actually saw a lotof transition from you know, the
public.
So it was basically a feederfor universities and some
capacities or PhD positions thatwere quite competitive because
of the extracurricular work theydid at the community lab.
Samuel Wines (14:58):
So with the community lab and this concept I
had this conversation withsomeone the other day how is
this different to acomplementary to a tech school?
Andrew Gray (15:09):
That's a good question.
So the community labs literallymanaged by a community.
So the tech school initiativeshave very specific goals that
they're trying to hit.
So they get given, you know,they have directives.
There's a lot of freedom in howthey achieve that.
Some of the goals are toactually interface with industry
a bit more, open it up to thecommunity and obviously, you
(15:32):
know, engage local schools inthe area.
The programs they run run for agood period of time so they'll,
you know, it's sort of a there'snormally a cycle of development
so they'll have somethingthey're working on that's going
to be a new and exciting programcoming out every year.
It's a lot of work that goesinto these programs, like just
(15:52):
the amount of brain power thatis leveraged, you know.
So there's industry expertsthat are consulted and read.
You know, teach I'm every day.
Every day is pretty muchteachers.
There's a good complimentary of, like, teachers and technical
staff, which is what I guess Iwas education support and we
basically get in a big roombrainstorm, ida, and then you
(16:15):
sort of you have this big bunch,you know, of ideas and you kind
of whittle it down and that'skind of the thing and it has to
also ideally.
You know you're trying to hitcertain targets with the schools
, so it's complimentary toactually curriculum.
Yeah, okay, yeah, that makessense, whereas DIY bio is very
much, or at least the communitylab or the Civic Science Hub is
really about more industry, I'dsay, or curiosity, so it could
(16:39):
be anything really there's notreally a directive there.
The directive is created by thecommunity that uses that
resource.
So it's a.
It's a.
It's a different approach andit's a little bit more free form
, and that's also because thefunding you know, the funding
and the grants are that normallyget handed down to the the text
goals will have specificmilestones or specific goals
(17:01):
that they're trying to achieve.
Samuel Wines (17:03):
Right, okay, that's, that's good, that's
that's useful for me to be ableto then reiterate to other
people how it is different.
But on that, on that, on thattheme as well, like there's
nothing to say that we couldn'texplore setting up some form of
a text school or something uphere.
I know that's been floated, atleast with Adam at Broody,
whether or not that's a down theline sort of thing.
(17:24):
Probably more than likely,maybe.
Andrew Gray (17:26):
I think from my recent conversations, I think
it's about supplementing thetext school initiatives and
other education initiativesaround the area, right?
So really, I think I meanlooking at our strengths and
what we have access to, which isindustry Um, you know, being
you know.
So, while tech schools would bereaching out to industry, we'd
be more or less industryreaching out to education.
(17:48):
So I think that's kind of oneway to look at it, and if you're
working at both ends, then youknow you're probably going to
find something amazing at themiddle.
Samuel Wines (17:55):
Yeah, and, as you sort of said as well, on top of
that, it's not like everythingwe're looking at supporting in
the citizen or the civic sciencehub.
It's not like everything thereis geared towards.
This has to make money per se.
We're also exploring, like whatmakes sense from, like a raising
social foundations, bringingpeople within planetary
(18:16):
boundaries.
What are some ways in which wecan actively contribute to, um,
I don't know say, promotingbiodiversity in our local area?
What are some ways we can lookat trying to close the loop on
the material economy, whetherthat's technical nutrients or
whether that's improving ourreliance on the biological
nutrient cycle, like there's?
There's a whole lot ofinitiatives and things that will
(18:38):
naturally sort of flow on from.
Andrew Gray (18:40):
Who knows?
Yeah, I mean, it's exactly thatLike it really is, you know,
like I said earlier, just aresource that is used by the
community and managed by thecommunity.
And if those things are, youknow what the community wants,
that they will definitely startto manifest and you can.
I think the other great thingabout it is do these sort of
experiments with the communityand say, okay, will this be
(19:02):
something that's interesting?
So you could do a prototype,you know, workshop or project,
so working, you know, I think,looking back at our time with
bio-acquisitive at the communitylab and what worked.
Well, having these sort ofprojects that we're just running
, you know, gave people anopportunity to jump in and latch
on to something without havingmuch background, whereas when we
(19:23):
first opened it, um, we kind ofnaively thought, oh, we'll just
build it and then people willknow what to do with it, and you
know I'll do my thing, andother people know what to do, do
their thing.
And didn't work like that atall, like once it was built.
Samuel Wines (19:37):
It was like uh, now what it's?
Definitely, it is definitelylike that with um, even, even
and this is the thing when youhave a proclivity or a leaning
towards doing, you realize thatthat's not actually not everyone
comes with that pre-wide, andthat's actually a good thing.
Like in terms of like humans asa ultra social species that
(20:00):
collaborates.
If everyone was just going offand doing people be like, maybe
we wouldn't be that good atcollaborating.
So there is it is interestingseeing how there is that push,
pull of like how are you what?
When do you lead and when doyou follow, when do you relate?
And just watching that sort ofdynamic into play happen.
Andrew Gray (20:20):
I'm.
Samuel Wines (20:21):
I'm very curious and very excited to see what
emerges when we create the rightconditions to allow that to
merge in this place.
Andrew Gray (20:28):
Yeah, and I think so.
I mean previously it was verymuch a lab and there will be a
lab component, like I said tothe Civic Science Hub.
But it's not just about the labcomponent which you've sort of
alluded to.
Samuel Wines (20:41):
So when you say it's not just about the lab
component, is that sort ofsaying that like is there an
element of professionaldevelopment, is there an element
of um?
Like what's?
What do you mean by that?
Well, it's a.
Andrew Gray (20:57):
I think the lab was a community sort of asset.
It was a meeting place.
It wasn't just a place to go doscience, like I, I just go here
for the science.
It actually wasn't about thescience, to be honest at all.
It was about the community thatwas created there and some
people just come hang out likeat the end of the day.
So you might have six people inthe shipping container lab that
(21:19):
we had over in Brunswick, therest would just be outside.
She'll have in a chat aboutcrazy ideas, what they did over
the weekend but wanted to bethere, you know, felt
comfortable about.
Around.
These similarly minded peopleare very diverse and oppositely
opinion people.
We had a lot of interestingconversations there.
So that, yeah, that's kind ofwhat I'm getting at.
Samuel Wines (21:41):
So, looking towards the future with this uh
Civic Science Hub, what do youlike?
What's your vision for it, whatdo you think will be Sure?
Andrew Gray (21:52):
I think you know what we're communicating
outwardly is very focusedbecause it's you know, otherwise
it can be very new, like itjust goes all over the place as
far as what you're trying to,the narrative that you're trying
to communicate.
So it's going to be what we'recommunicating is innovation,
education, um, and really makinga statement that these things
don't happen in silence, theyhappen together and research.
Samuel Wines (22:14):
I might just throw in there as well.
Right, that's that's education.
That's how I see it, so that'stied into it.
Andrew Gray (22:20):
So I wouldn't say, you know, if somebody's learning
, they're probably doing thatthrough researching.
Samuel Wines (22:26):
Right, Right.
So I guess if I was going toreframe that, it's it's.
So you're trying to, because tome that's practice.
It's where theory and practicemeet, and you're saying that
this is an applied educationspace.
Andrew Gray (22:40):
Yeah, or discovery.
Um, I'm literally just sayingthat it's about education and
innovation.
And it's going to be, um, thosetwo things very hands on.
So you know, instead oflearning primarily through
lectures or things like that,imagine the lectures in the lab
which happens at our practicals,which is probably all of our
favorite aspects of our scienceeducation.
(23:01):
If you had the chance to go touni, um, or the opportunity, uh,
if you haven't, you know, it'ssort of like learning, you know,
just imagine trying to learnyour degree off YouTube or Khan
Academy, which is a lot of Ilove Khan Academy, I love
listening to Khan Academy, butat the same time, like I don't
think I would be confident goinginto a lab afterwards or even
applying to a position in a labafterwards, if I'd an education
(23:25):
just off that.
Samuel Wines (23:26):
Yeah, and I think it's all.
Um, it's great to know all ofthat sort of stuff, but it's the
, it's the.
What are the skills that areembodied, that kind of come with
that and enacted um to use, Iguess, the, that sort of
cognitive science framing,because a lot of the time when
it's lab work, that's most ofthe work is that, um, how does
(23:46):
this translate into the doing Um, is there anything else that's
sort of on the top of your mindin regards to the Pacific
science hub?
Andrew Gray (23:57):
Yeah, I think it might be worth just sort of
breaking down you know what sortof activities.
So, if you're going to say,what does this thing do?
Um, so we've kind of coveredthat.
It's going to be a meetingspace, it's going to have a lab,
it's going to have room forabout 20 people to be in there
learning high tech fields andemerging disciplines, alongside
a lot of the startups that were,you know, supporting through co
(24:18):
labs.
So you might get a chance tolearn how to cultivate cells for
future food sources, or biomanufacturing, operating little
bioreactors or synthetic biology, and how do you generate
pathways, style up organisms,solve the challenges that we
can't.
So there will be that.
(24:38):
And then I'd say that's sort ofin the education component and
that'll be under, uh, what we'recalling the lab Academy, which
will be sort of a microcredentialed opportunity that
will recognize and communicatethe experience, the individual
experience that each person hasobtained while doing those
workshops, which I think will beincredibly valuable for people,
you know, looking for work inthese growing sectors.
(25:01):
And then, on the innovationfront, there will be programs to
help people, you know, if theyhave ideas and they want to try
out some ideas and they need areally low-cost space, maybe not
as highly certified or speccedout as co-labs.
They'll have that kind of roughprotein-typing space.
And I do have to add that thiswas all supervised access.
(25:24):
And so when we say communitylab, it's not like people are
just showing up and there's noOHS or anything like that.
There is.
We have a safety manual, wehave, you know, people have to
fill out risk assessments andyou have to sort of vet yourself
with you, have to get thecommunity to vet you as you
progress in your experience.
And then we're also excited to,because the other thing is a lot
(25:45):
of people don't knownecessarily what they want to do
, and that's you know.
We all remember that phase inour life where our parents are
like you know, their friends arelike hey, what do you want to
be when you grow up?
Sam, come on, tell us somethingcool and amazing.
And you're like I gonna be this.
What did you say?
Samuel Wines (26:04):
I don't think I ever said anything.
Andrew Gray (26:05):
You just stared at him.
Samuel Wines (26:07):
I think I said I wanted to be the next David
Attenborough.
Andrew Gray (26:09):
Yeah, well, it's pretty close actually, hey, yeah
it's somewhat related Like.
I they have the same clothes.
Samuel Wines (26:15):
Yeah, that's a start, you know.
At least it's like a fake untilyou make it.
That's it.
Aesthetically similarsensibilities.
That's a start, yeah, I think,and on top of that, like you
were saying before, not just alllab other areas I guess I'm
really curious about exploringis I know that there's a really
(26:36):
like there is fertile ground atthe moment to be able to explore
things like living systemsthinking, ecological design,
bi-design, all of these sort ofemerging fields that there are
places to explore this overseas,like real world laboratories
where you can be experimentingwith this sort of stuff, but
maybe not a crazy amount of thatis happening over here.
(26:57):
And I find that that's gonna bea really exciting point as well
is that we can kind of become abit of a basin of attraction for
all of these.
Andrew Gray (27:04):
Yeah, I've seen quite often you've done really
good job of sort of networkingwith, I think, a lot of the
prominent people out there thatare writing the reports and
stuff.
So it'd be nice to actuallygive that a space to sort of
manifest and see what grows outof that.
So I am looking forward toseeing that as well.
Samuel Wines (27:20):
Yeah, actually good point.
So both Materium, who kind ofworld leaders in exploring what
the next generation of aregenerative materials economy
might look like.
So that's across, likepackaging, that's across
textiles for clothing, and alsothe built environment.
So I'm really looking forwardto seeing how that sort of
(27:41):
collaboration can unfold againso they have a platform online
like a recipe, like I guess youcould say.
Andrew Gray (27:48):
That's a really yeah.
I really liked that idea of arecipe book.
Samuel Wines (27:51):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (27:52):
Only because I can only cook if I have a recipe
book.
Samuel Wines (27:54):
Exactly so.
It's like that, but forbiomaterials, which is really
cool, and it's open access.
Anyone can use it.
They're working with Googleorg,actually, and they have a whole
bunch of scholars helping themout, so AI experts helping them
out with creating an LLM thatcan actually help you with.
Have you considered using this,or if you tried using that.
So I'm really excited to seehow that goes.
(28:18):
Yeah, we had a really goodconversation with Liz Corbin,
who's one of the co-founders,there yesterday and then
obviously Metabolic as well, soanother sort of world leader in
exploring systems, thinking andcircularity over in
predominantly Europe, but we'relooking at finding ways to
collaborate with them again tosort of bring a lot of their
(28:40):
findings to Australia and findways in which we can see,
because I mean, when you look atthe amount of so, like Victoria
is actually quite fascinating,and I think we have maybe eight
or 10 of the 12 bioregions inAustralia for agriculture, so
we're in a very unique placewhere there's actually quite a
(29:02):
lot that can happen when itcomes to the bioeconomy down
here.
Andrew Gray (29:05):
So yeah, and how would you describe the
bioeconomy?
Because I feel like that's aword that's gonna get thrown out
a lot around.
Samuel Wines (29:10):
Oh gosh, that's so true.
Andrew Gray (29:12):
I think we should probably start helping paint
pictures.
For sure, at least we think itis.
Samuel Wines (29:18):
Well, here's the catch right.
Because, like, the bioeconomytechnically includes things like
cattle and agriculture and likeall of these sorts of things,
pretty much anything that'sbio-based.
So that's all living systemsand whatnot.
But I guess a lot of the timewhen we're referring to the
bioeconomy it's less like let'sgo grow another cow and more
(29:43):
like how can we replace some ofthe systems and structures and
patterns of production,distribution and, I guess,
industry that are currently verylike petrochemical focused, and
how can we find biologicalalternatives for that?
(30:04):
Yeah, but no, so technicallyit's anything that's within the
biological cycle counts as thebioeconomy.
So we're already pretty pumpingin that department when it
comes to the conventional way oflooking at it.
But I'm trying to bring alongthat lens of can we try?
And when we are thinking aboutthis bioeconomy, how can we do
(30:25):
it in a way that is regenerativeby design, so actively
contributing to not justmaximizing financial return on
investment but foundationalpools of social or ecological or
even spiritual capital?
So it's not just making moremoney, but how can we actually
add to, I guess, design moreresilient, regenerative systems
(30:47):
and how can we improve thequality of life, not just for
humanity but for all livingbeings?
So when I speak aboutbioeconomy it's in that vein,
which I know it can be quitedifferent to maybe a more
conventional take where it mightbe seen as predominantly
primary industries, yeah, but Ithink it's not to discount that.
(31:07):
I think that's going to be amassive area where we need to be
applying permacultureprinciples or exploring
regenerative agriculturalpractices.
Agroforestry, food forests allthis sort of stuff is incredibly
important and from that therewill be many different elements
and ways in which we can try andclose the loop on those
material cycles so that less isgoing to waste.
(31:29):
We're rebuilding top soil.
Some of that agricultural wastethat isn't going into building
top soil could be used as thesealternative products, for
leather alternatives orpackaging alternatives or
whatnot, but also bearing inmind that as we increase that
demand on the, let's say, thebiological nutrient cycle, it
(31:51):
can't be competing with foodsources for humans.
Andrew Gray (31:56):
So it's really taken that systems thinking
approach.
Samuel Wines (31:59):
Like what are the?
End-ordered consequences Quiteliterally like as wide boundary
or thinking sort of perspectivewhen addressing this as possible
.
Otherwise, all we're going todo is respect the same patterns
and processes of the past, whichis Shift the problem to other
parts?
Yeah, not great.
So I totally acknowledge thatthere's it's quite a fuzzy and
uncertain sort of area andthere's so much that needs to
(32:19):
happen.
But I think that it's kind oflike whether the world's all
going to fall apart or whetherwe make it through.
It doesn't matter.
Doing this sort of thing is theright approach for both sides
of the.
Andrew Gray (32:32):
Yeah, and I think you know just to think about.
I think the other thing here isthat it does sound like a.
It is a massive problem and youknow if Someone's listening to
this, it's not necessarily youknow how are you going to do
this?
How are you gonna fix all this?
(32:53):
There's a lot of people,there's a huge ecosystem around
the world currently activelygrowing and Leveraging their
time and resources towardsaddressing these big global
challenges.
So don't want to don't anybodyto walk away from this with any
Timber gloom.
Samuel Wines (33:10):
No it's exactly that you need some for like, and
the thing is like yeah, it ispretty fucked like if If we look
at it it's it does, but thatdoesn't mean that we don't have
active hope, right.
It's like life, life isconstantly adapting and evolving
to a changing context and Allthat we're saying is that we
need to be baking that into ourways of organizing Humanity
(33:34):
essentially, so that needs to beupdating to reflect that and to
be Reflecting a changing anduncertain environment from
climate change and on resourcescarcity, all these other things
.
We need to be baking that in sothat we're more sustainable in
a circular and Doing everythingwe can to utilize, like
renewable biological resourcesand you know, biological
(33:56):
processes to produce foodmaterials and energy In a
sustainable manner.
So, rather than you know, justlike it's a really easy, like
let's just use fossil fuels orlike let's just use, like for
non renewable rare earth metalsor minerals or of anything of
that kind, like Nature doesn'treally ever run off, that if you
(34:17):
look, it's like pretty muchwhat, like five, six Organic
sort of molecules that most oflife is based up.
What is it?
Carbon, nitrogen, nitrogen,oxygen, and then like
sprinklings of phosphorus andsulfur and a few other things.
Yeah, it's not that much, butyou know, from that small amount
of chemicals you can get quitea, you get the diversity of life
(34:40):
, and so it's thinking.
You know how do we put thatgreen chemistry lens onto things
.
How can we think about how wedesign products and processes to
Sort of mimic or work withnature as model and mentor?
But yeah, I think hey look,it's a multifaceted sort of
space and it crosses pretty muchevery sector to do with Making
(35:01):
food, health care, and then evenwhich isn't just the tech right
no no, it's, thank you, thanksfor pointing that out.
It's like if you look at what'sthe framing I use for this one,
it's like you have your.
So it's not just so.
To me, tech, the tech layer alot of the time, is
infrastructure.
So what we're referring to isit's not just the infrastructure
(35:22):
that we need to be, I guess,redesigning, but it's also our
social structures, so our waysof organizing business, so that
it's, you know, not just Justmaximizing profit and
shareholder return on investmentbut, as we're saying before,
optimizing for the system as awhole, thinking more
regeneratively in the way inwhich we organize and structure
things, but also the like, thesuperstructure, which you could
(35:45):
kind of just say culture.
So what kind of culture do webring to a place and how can
that be?
You know, how can we rechange,how can we reimagine our
perception of like, what wevalue?
So it's not just that monetarything, but how do we, how do we
value intangible things likerelationships and Knowledge
(36:06):
that's not just derived from thesort of scientific, western,
scientific sort of narrative?
So all of this sort of stuff, Ithink, is, how do we try and
find ways to collaborate withand work with these ways of
thinking, doing and being thathopefully Don't interfere with
life's ability to createconditions conducive to life.
Andrew Gray (36:29):
Mic drop.
I can't do it.
Samuel Wines (36:35):
Is there anything else that we wanted to to riff
on for this little update?
Andrew Gray (36:39):
No, I think if anybody's interested in anything
we've said, obviously go checkout the website.
If you are interested in thePacific Science Hub, if you're
an educator, if you're anindustry or if you're someone
that just wants to get morehands-on in the lab and or you
know, just come hang out andtalk what we're talking about or
whatever you want to talk about.
(37:01):
That's okay too.
You can find us either throughthe website.
Samuel Wines (37:05):
You can look up bioquisitive www Dot, bio Q,
that's BIO Q, dot, org, dot, auyep and we've got little
platform that we're growingthere so we can chat, share
stuff and yeah and I guess we'llalso be sharing a lot of this
through co-lab socials andNewsletter and everything like
(37:27):
that.
So if people want to keep up todate, check that out, subscribe
.
Like what do people say onthese Pog?
Andrew Gray (37:33):
don't say it Just like.
Samuel Wines (37:39):
Stop, you don't have to do that.
No, that's, we're not aboutthat.
But yeah, I think that probablyconcludes our February
mid-February update.
So thank you for finding timeto sit down.
I know it's always difficultfor us to Get like half an hour
of time.
Andrew Gray (37:58):
I'm surprised there hasn't been any deliveries or
anything like.
It's been pretty chill today.
Samuel Wines (38:03):
I only a couple of emails have come through, but
nothing.
Nothing on top of that.
So much time for activities, oh, what do you know?
The email that came through isMonash Innovation Labs.
Andrew Gray (38:15):
Oh, cool yeah, great yeah nice and then
Jermaine.
Samuel Wines (38:18):
So Glowy, we didn't mention.
Glowy.
There's a little last bit ofthis.
So we've been chatting with oneof our friends who now has the
I guess the entire IP for Glowy,which is a bioluminescence, if
you've ever seen back to theglowing algae or aquatic life,
(38:39):
diana, flagellates or what arethe other ones?
Andrew Gray (38:43):
diatoms, yeah, basically that.
So by learning that it's notlike shine a light on Something
and it reflects light, but likeproduces light which is pretty
amazing.
There's even a, a petunia, youcan buy in the US.
What, yeah?
And they've made it glow.
I shouldn't say glow give.
Offline fascinating yeah, verydifferent regulatory yeah, I
(39:06):
can't imagine that happeninghere.
Samuel Wines (39:07):
No, no, but yeah, so that's cool.
So that might be another thingto keep an eye out for just
glowing furniture around thearound Melbourne.
Andrew Gray (39:16):
Life, yeah, but not not using electricity Super
cool.
Samuel Wines (39:20):
Anyway, we'll wrap it here.
Thanks so much for your timeand we'll see you again soon.
Andrew Gray (39:25):
Awesome.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the
Strange Attractor.
This week, something a littlebit different.
We're just trialing giving offlittle updates and sound bites
about what's going on here atColabs and within our
organizational ecosystem.
So this one is just going to bea conversation with Andrew and
(00:21):
myself, short and sweet, justwith some updates.
So thank you for listening.
Alright, so it's been a whilesince we've sat down for our, I
guess, a round of updates fromwhat's going on at Colabs and
within our, I guess, ecosystemof organizations that we also
(00:44):
have.
So is there anything that youfeel like leading with?
Andrew Gray (00:51):
Well, quick update on the Monash site.
Yeah, I think that's reallyexciting watching that finally
begin construction and seeingall the movement happening on
site.
Samuel Wines (01:03):
There's that little spider looking robot.
Andrew Gray (01:06):
It reminds me of a cartoon.
Samuel Wines (01:09):
What was it?
What was it for Holding?
Andrew Gray (01:11):
yeah, bringing up steel, I think, the steel
purlings and stuff to hold themin place.
Samuel Wines (01:17):
I just want one, I know, just to do tasks, just
hold this stick.
Andrew Gray (01:21):
for me it only weighs a couple tons.
Samuel Wines (01:27):
Yeah, that's coming along really well.
I'm really looking forward togetting the renders being able
to sort of share what's going on.
I had quite a few peopleobviously reaching out in the
last little bit about space downthere, so it'll be great to be
able to be like, hey, this iswhat it's going to look like,
yeah 100% space collaborationopportunities.
Andrew Gray (01:47):
There's a lot of amazing initiatives down there.
Obviously, monash University isthere, csro is there.
We've had a lot to do and talkabout with the generator down in
Monash.
That's exciting.
The Monash Innovation Labs,csro On Program.
The Victorian Heart HospitalInstitute.
Samuel Wines (02:08):
Yeah, and what about?
There was stuff with Silvio andyeah, yeah, the smart CRC.
Andrew Gray (02:15):
So becoming a partner of a CRC and how we
support regenerative medicinehere in Australia and Victoria,
which will be really exciting,and there will be GMP space
right next door for processingand manufacturing regenerative
cell based therapies.
Samuel Wines (02:34):
Awesome, and then also a little bit off to the
tangent, but another Monashpotential collaborator would be
the MC3S, the MonashConsciousness, cognition and
Contemplative Studies space.
So being chatting with Meganand Beth about finding ways to
collaborate with them on theinterdevelopment goal stuff and
(02:54):
then even anything to do withinnovation within that space,
which is kind of, I think,really fun and awesome I think
that'll be a really exciting wayof getting in, just giving
Megan's background inentrepreneurship over in the
States and everything.
So yeah, quite an interesting,unlikely connection.
Andrew Gray (03:13):
Unlikely and likely .
Samuel Wines (03:15):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (03:16):
You know, just amazed by the number of people
and just the diversity in peoplewe meet through this and things
that we care about and arepursuing initiative wise and
yeah, doubling down on theexcited note there for doing
more with them.
I think they bring with them alot of experience and great
(03:36):
understanding of what the techlike, what a massive tech
industry and tech ecosystemlooks like over in the West.
Samuel Wines (03:44):
And where's it dead from again?
Andrew Gray (03:49):
The Monash Center for Nanofabrication.
Samuel Wines (03:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So another potential partner.
There is Relics for Pretty Cool.
Andrew Gray (03:55):
Lots of amazing stuff happening there as well
the Synchotron Monash IVF.
There's Heaps.
Samuel Wines (04:02):
Yeah, and even even like, hopefully, like it
would be pretty cool to be ableto maybe collaborate with like
Biopria and like the other folksI guess interested in the
material economy.
Like there's been a lot ofinterests.
I mean, we're obviously writingthe report and we're exploring
this sort of stuff throughanother venture, like what might
a regenerative material economylook like?
What might a more circularbio-based textiles industry look
(04:28):
like?
You know what about packaging,all of these sorts of things?
So it's exciting to be able tobe closer to, I guess, world
leading laboratories exploringthis sort of space.
Andrew Gray (04:38):
Yeah, and they're.
You know the expertise.
It's been interesting being inBrunswick.
I feel like there's a reallybig demand for that type of
experience.
With everybody here I feel likelives and breathes that sort of
alternative material, whetherit's fungi-based materials,
bioplastics.
So it's interesting being inBrunswick when you know we'll
(04:58):
have this sort of network.
I guess that kind of speaks towhat we're trying to set up,
which is a node you know a setof nodes around Australia that
can allow for the, as you wouldsay, transfer of nutrients like
mycelial network.
Samuel Wines (05:12):
That's it.
I was itching for me to get inthere and save mycelial network.
But yeah, it really does feellike a dissent, like we it's.
It's one thing to say thesethings, like I love saying
things, but it's another thingfor them to actually be coming
to fruition, like the fruitingbody of a mushroom, okay, I
gotcha, yeah anyway.
(05:35):
So Monash site, that's superexciting.
I'm really I'm really curiousto see who will be our first few
strings of members down there.
Not like I mean, we've had alot of interest in the, you know
, the 100, 200 square sort oflab pod side of things.
I'm really curious about what'ssmaller startups.
Andrew Gray (05:56):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the area that I
love to.
I love about what we do, whichis helping the ideas go from
idea to reality.
I like that, that moment tokind of hit the bench, and then
you know, things start upmorphing and evolving and
tackling all the challenges thatcome with that.
So whether it's infrastructure,connections, whatever, and then
(06:18):
you know, like we like to say,being the uncle, so you get to
spoil it with all the attentionand help you can, and then you
know, let it grow.
Samuel Wines (06:26):
Yeah, speaking of let it grow, I mean we're gonna
have two alumni this, yeah, thismonth.
So we've got um, old leatherare going to be graduating,
moving down to work, uh, moreclosely with Biopria.
Just obviously they need thatsort of equipment.
And then also CIMEX aregraduating, so they'll be
(06:47):
heading over to Jumma BioIncubator and then tapping into
that network of infrastructurethere which is awesome, and then
maybe in the future down toMonash, who knows?
but it's exciting to see thatthere's movement and that these
things that I mean just even inthat email that sort of Ed got
(07:09):
sent to us right is like.
You know, if it wasn't forthese the space that CoLab has
provided for that sort of price,you know there wouldn't be a
CIMEX, which is, um, it's prettycool, you know, getting
feedback like that from ourmembers and just being able to
support that really early stage.
I mean, that's why we existright.
Andrew Gray (07:30):
I'm just yeah.
So I was just sort of staringoff into the distance just
thinking about how much time isactually.
I was looking at all the timethat's passed over there and
just yeah, you know, I thinkwe've been trying to sort of
acknowledge every week as itpasses, but time does still fly
and it's yeah, like you said,amazing, Both of them moving,
you know, growing off the backof two successful raises.
(07:52):
Both, yeah, I think all leatheris about one mil and then one
point one, one point one yeah,and then CIMEX was about two, so
oh, nice.
Samuel Wines (08:01):
Yeah, I didn't realize that they closed that
much.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I need to factor that into ourstats and.
I definitely have not factoredthat in.
Oh, that's so exciting, Cool.
So that kind of probably wrapsup everything from a CoLab's
updates perspective.
Aside from you know there's afood hack event on next week, so
(08:24):
that should be fun.
There's a few more things we'regoing to be looking at doing
coming up as well from thatfront.
Oh, we actually know, almostalmost wraps it up.
We've brought on another hire.
Soon, yeah, Soon hire.
Maybe Monday soon.
Andrew Gray (08:40):
Yeah, that's pretty soon.
Actually that's pretty soon.
Samuel Wines (08:42):
Yeah, so that's going to be exciting having
another human around to be ableto help with this space.
So Georgina is coming on board,which will be pretty cool.
Andrew Gray (08:51):
Yeah, she's been doing a stellar job with AusCelp
, just jumping into science, youknow, having not really come
from that discipline.
Samuel Wines (09:00):
Political economics background yeah.
Andrew Gray (09:02):
Just driven, driven by her passion for all things
kelp, and that has literallyovercome a lot of learning
barriers and challenges.
You know, we see a lot inuniversity and anybody really
trying to learn something.
Passion is just really anamazing catalyst for learning.
Samuel Wines (09:22):
And that curiosity just like leaning into things.
Andrew Gray (09:26):
I love that she names all the kelp like all the
kelp cultures have differentnames.
Samuel Wines (09:30):
This is Barbara.
Andrew Gray (09:31):
Pam Beasley, kimberly.
We're having a.
Unfortunately we're having akelp funeral.
I think one of the we did alittle side experiment that got
contaminated.
Samuel Wines (09:41):
She mentioned, she was very upset, yeah, so we're
going to have an actual.
Andrew Gray (09:45):
It'll be awake later.
Samuel Wines (09:47):
Okay, well, I'll make sure I I'll come down and
pay my respects.
Andrew Gray (09:51):
But it's yeah, it's been going great.
Auscelp's been going great,they've been ramping up
operations and, yeah, I'll beexciting to have you know
Georgina's expertise in the lab,but also her expertise just in
strategy and helping us out.
Samuel Wines (10:07):
I agree, I agree and on that strategy, note
what's we, I mean?
Obviously posted an update nottoo long ago the looking at
relaunching BioQ as a civicscience hub.
Andrew Gray (10:23):
Yeah, yeah, so changing the name.
So originally, bioqizidiv was,I guess, referred to as a
community lab and there willdefinitely be a lab component in
the civic science hub concept.
And I think what the civicscience hub idea is about is
creating a blueprint to createmore of these sort of spaces
that provide and open up andbasically democratize access to
(10:45):
science for the public, whichwe've seen so many benefits from
.
I mean, that's you know, thatwas my, I guess, journey and how
I got here and some of theconnections that we have and
some of the members we have alsocame from that.
So it's you know it's difficultwhen your first enterprise is a
(11:05):
charity because you justundervalue everything and you're
not really thinking about thebusiness side of things.
You're just doing it passion,wise, and that's great and, you
know, bring a lot of people in,but often what happens is you're
trying to push things along atthe expense of yourself and it's
just not sustainable.
So now that you know things are, they're happening with co labs
(11:27):
and some of the otherinitiatives, I feel like we can
properly resource that and giveit the attention and support it
deserves as well as a community.
Samuel Wines (11:34):
Yeah, and I can't remember it was one of the
professors at ETH Universityover in Switzerland was going on
about the so for transformativeinnovation and all of this sort
of stuff that we're looking atsupporting, the start of that
value chain is is education andfundamental research, not even
(11:58):
necessarily directed research oflike a.
All right, let's try and find away to apply this straight away
.
But, like Einstein's work onthe theory of relativity, he
never would have thought that 40, 50 years later that would be
what governs our satellites.
You know like there is a needfor this.
Exploratory curiosity led wayfor people to just relate to
(12:20):
science, design, innovation,whatever it might be, and then
from that seeing what kind ofemerges.
Andrew Gray (12:25):
And yeah, yeah, I totally agree, and I think the
other important distinction tomake is that it needs to be a
part of, not separate to agree,yeah.
So, like with universities andother, like pretty much our
education system, it's basically, you know, you know this is a
education department, this is,you know, this department, that
(12:46):
department, everything's adepartment, you know this,
compartmentalized,departmentalized, yeah, yeah
which comes with that.
Samuel Wines (12:53):
I guess that reductionist sort of mechanistic
thinking of wanting to tickboxes or put things in
categories, which is it's leftbrain.
It's great, don't get me wrong.
It's got us this far, but whenwe're facing uncertainty and the
challenges that we are going tohave to come up against in the
next sort of 50 to 100 yearsplus, like that style of
thinking will be way less fitfor purpose.
Andrew Gray (13:15):
I think, yeah, I agree with that, and it'll be
interesting to see where we'reat in that, you know, timeframe,
as you mentioned.
Currently it is.
I think the current educationsystem we have is doing an
amazing job.
You know, I got a chance towork with some amazing
initiatives like the Monash TechSchool it's part of the
Victorian Tech SchoolsInitiative and just some of the.
Just the engagement that we hadin STEM through the programs
(13:37):
and just the amazing people downthere that I got to work with
was phenomenal to see.
You could see it, with all thestudents leaving at the end of
the day just completely drainedbecause they just they were
being, you know, shown all thesedifferent technologies.
They got their hands oneverything, all sorts of
workflows crammed into like oneor two or three days, and it was
very rewarding.
(13:57):
So I think really, the civicscience hub is trying to support
those types of initiatives, andall by creating alternative
pathways for people to get intoeducation.
So previously, what we saw oftenwas people that are, you know,
members of the public thatweren't necessarily
participating in education.
(14:18):
So they maybe had done theiryear 12 or something like that,
and then they went out to theworkforce, got a job came to buy
a quesitive and suddenly we'regetting hands on with stuff and,
like you said, really justcuriosity, exploratory work or
participating in other people'sprojects and helping them out
and then using that as a chanceto learn, collaborate,
(14:38):
inevitably go and ask you knowwhat would it be like to go back
to uni or to go to uni?
And so we've.
You know we actually saw a lotof transition from you know, the
public.
So it was basically a feederfor universities and some
capacities or PhD positions thatwere quite competitive because
of the extracurricular work theydid at the community lab.
Samuel Wines (14:58):
So with the community lab and this concept I
had this conversation withsomeone the other day how is
this different to acomplementary to a tech school?
Andrew Gray (15:09):
That's a good question.
So the community labs literallymanaged by a community.
So the tech school initiativeshave very specific goals that
they're trying to hit.
So they get given, you know,they have directives.
There's a lot of freedom in howthey achieve that.
Some of the goals are toactually interface with industry
a bit more, open it up to thecommunity and obviously, you
(15:32):
know, engage local schools inthe area.
The programs they run run for agood period of time so they'll,
you know, it's sort of a there'snormally a cycle of development
so they'll have somethingthey're working on that's going
to be a new and exciting programcoming out every year.
It's a lot of work that goesinto these programs, like just
(15:52):
the amount of brain power thatis leveraged, you know.
So there's industry expertsthat are consulted and read.
You know, teach I'm every day.
Every day is pretty muchteachers.
There's a good complimentary of, like, teachers and technical
staff, which is what I guess Iwas education support and we
basically get in a big roombrainstorm, ida, and then you
(16:15):
sort of you have this big bunch,you know, of ideas and you kind
of whittle it down and that'skind of the thing and it has to
also ideally.
You know you're trying to hitcertain targets with the schools
, so it's complimentary toactually curriculum.
Yeah, okay, yeah, that makessense, whereas DIY bio is very
much, or at least the communitylab or the Civic Science Hub is
really about more industry, I'dsay, or curiosity, so it could
(16:39):
be anything really there's notreally a directive there.
The directive is created by thecommunity that uses that
resource.
So it's a.
It's a.
It's a different approach andit's a little bit more free form
, and that's also because thefunding you know, the funding
and the grants are that normallyget handed down to the the text
goals will have specificmilestones or specific goals
(17:01):
that they're trying to achieve.
Samuel Wines (17:03):
Right, okay, that's, that's good, that's
that's useful for me to be ableto then reiterate to other
people how it is different.
But on that, on that, on thattheme as well, like there's
nothing to say that we couldn'texplore setting up some form of
a text school or something uphere.
I know that's been floated, atleast with Adam at Broody,
whether or not that's a down theline sort of thing.
(17:24):
Probably more than likely,maybe.
Andrew Gray (17:26):
I think from my recent conversations, I think
it's about supplementing thetext school initiatives and
other education initiativesaround the area, right?
So really, I think I meanlooking at our strengths and
what we have access to, which isindustry Um, you know, being
you know.
So, while tech schools would bereaching out to industry, we'd
be more or less industryreaching out to education.
(17:48):
So I think that's kind of oneway to look at it, and if you're
working at both ends, then youknow you're probably going to
find something amazing at themiddle.
Samuel Wines (17:55):
Yeah, and, as you sort of said as well, on top of
that, it's not like everythingwe're looking at supporting in
the citizen or the civic sciencehub.
It's not like everything thereis geared towards.
This has to make money per se.
We're also exploring, like whatmakes sense from, like a raising
social foundations, bringingpeople within planetary
(18:16):
boundaries.
What are some ways in which wecan actively contribute to, um,
I don't know say, promotingbiodiversity in our local area?
What are some ways we can lookat trying to close the loop on
the material economy, whetherthat's technical nutrients or
whether that's improving ourreliance on the biological
nutrient cycle, like there's?
There's a whole lot ofinitiatives and things that will
(18:38):
naturally sort of flow on from.
Andrew Gray (18:40):
Who knows?
Yeah, I mean, it's exactly thatLike it really is, you know,
like I said earlier, just aresource that is used by the
community and managed by thecommunity.
And if those things are, youknow what the community wants,
that they will definitely startto manifest and you can.
I think the other great thingabout it is do these sort of
experiments with the communityand say, okay, will this be
(19:02):
something that's interesting?
So you could do a prototype,you know, workshop or project,
so working, you know, I think,looking back at our time with
bio-acquisitive at the communitylab and what worked.
Well, having these sort ofprojects that we're just running
, you know, gave people anopportunity to jump in and latch
on to something without havingmuch background, whereas when we
(19:23):
first opened it, um, we kind ofnaively thought, oh, we'll just
build it and then people willknow what to do with it, and you
know I'll do my thing, andother people know what to do, do
their thing.
And didn't work like that atall, like once it was built.
Samuel Wines (19:37):
It was like uh, now what it's?
Definitely, it is definitelylike that with um, even, even
and this is the thing when youhave a proclivity or a leaning
towards doing, you realize thatthat's not actually not everyone
comes with that pre-wide, andthat's actually a good thing.
Like in terms of like humans asa ultra social species that
(20:00):
collaborates.
If everyone was just going offand doing people be like, maybe
we wouldn't be that good atcollaborating.
So there is it is interestingseeing how there is that push,
pull of like how are you what?
When do you lead and when doyou follow, when do you relate?
And just watching that sort ofdynamic into play happen.
Andrew Gray (20:20):
I'm.
Samuel Wines (20:21):
I'm very curious and very excited to see what
emerges when we create the rightconditions to allow that to
merge in this place.
Andrew Gray (20:28):
Yeah, and I think so.
I mean previously it was verymuch a lab and there will be a
lab component, like I said tothe Civic Science Hub.
But it's not just about the labcomponent which you've sort of
alluded to.
Samuel Wines (20:41):
So when you say it's not just about the lab
component, is that sort ofsaying that like is there an
element of professionaldevelopment, is there an element
of um?
Like what's?
What do you mean by that?
Well, it's a.
Andrew Gray (20:57):
I think the lab was a community sort of asset.
It was a meeting place.
It wasn't just a place to go doscience, like I, I just go here
for the science.
It actually wasn't about thescience, to be honest at all.
It was about the community thatwas created there and some
people just come hang out likeat the end of the day.
So you might have six people inthe shipping container lab that
(21:19):
we had over in Brunswick, therest would just be outside.
She'll have in a chat aboutcrazy ideas, what they did over
the weekend but wanted to bethere, you know, felt
comfortable about.
Around.
These similarly minded peopleare very diverse and oppositely
opinion people.
We had a lot of interestingconversations there.
So that, yeah, that's kind ofwhat I'm getting at.
Samuel Wines (21:41):
So, looking towards the future with this uh
Civic Science Hub, what do youlike?
What's your vision for it, whatdo you think will be Sure?
Andrew Gray (21:52):
I think you know what we're communicating
outwardly is very focusedbecause it's you know, otherwise
it can be very new, like itjust goes all over the place as
far as what you're trying to,the narrative that you're trying
to communicate.
So it's going to be what we'recommunicating is innovation,
education, um, and really makinga statement that these things
don't happen in silence, theyhappen together and research.
Samuel Wines (22:14):
I might just throw in there as well.
Right, that's that's education.
That's how I see it, so that'stied into it.
Andrew Gray (22:20):
So I wouldn't say, you know, if somebody's learning
, they're probably doing thatthrough researching.
Samuel Wines (22:26):
Right, Right.
So I guess if I was going toreframe that, it's it's.
So you're trying to, because tome that's practice.
It's where theory and practicemeet, and you're saying that
this is an applied educationspace.
Andrew Gray (22:40):
Yeah, or discovery.
Um, I'm literally just sayingthat it's about education and
innovation.
And it's going to be, um, thosetwo things very hands on.
So you know, instead oflearning primarily through
lectures or things like that,imagine the lectures in the lab
which happens at our practicals,which is probably all of our
favorite aspects of our scienceeducation.
(23:01):
If you had the chance to go touni, um, or the opportunity, uh,
if you haven't, you know, it'ssort of like learning, you know,
just imagine trying to learnyour degree off YouTube or Khan
Academy, which is a lot of Ilove Khan Academy, I love
listening to Khan Academy, butat the same time, like I don't
think I would be confident goinginto a lab afterwards or even
applying to a position in a labafterwards, if I'd an education
(23:25):
just off that.
Samuel Wines (23:26):
Yeah, and I think it's all.
Um, it's great to know all ofthat sort of stuff, but it's the
, it's the.
What are the skills that areembodied, that kind of come with
that and enacted um to use, Iguess, the, that sort of
cognitive science framing,because a lot of the time when
it's lab work, that's most ofthe work is that, um, how does
(23:46):
this translate into the doing Um, is there anything else that's
sort of on the top of your mindin regards to the Pacific
science hub?
Andrew Gray (23:57):
Yeah, I think it might be worth just sort of
breaking down you know what sortof activities.
So, if you're going to say,what does this thing do?
Um, so we've kind of coveredthat.
It's going to be a meetingspace, it's going to have a lab,
it's going to have room forabout 20 people to be in there
learning high tech fields andemerging disciplines, alongside
a lot of the startups that were,you know, supporting through co
(24:18):
labs.
So you might get a chance tolearn how to cultivate cells for
future food sources, or biomanufacturing, operating little
bioreactors or synthetic biology, and how do you generate
pathways, style up organisms,solve the challenges that we
can't.
So there will be that.
(24:38):
And then I'd say that's sort ofin the education component and
that'll be under, uh, what we'recalling the lab Academy, which
will be sort of a microcredentialed opportunity that
will recognize and communicatethe experience, the individual
experience that each person hasobtained while doing those
workshops, which I think will beincredibly valuable for people,
you know, looking for work inthese growing sectors.
(25:01):
And then, on the innovationfront, there will be programs to
help people, you know, if theyhave ideas and they want to try
out some ideas and they need areally low-cost space, maybe not
as highly certified or speccedout as co-labs.
They'll have that kind of roughprotein-typing space.
And I do have to add that thiswas all supervised access.
(25:24):
And so when we say communitylab, it's not like people are
just showing up and there's noOHS or anything like that.
There is.
We have a safety manual, wehave, you know, people have to
fill out risk assessments andyou have to sort of vet yourself
with you, have to get thecommunity to vet you as you
progress in your experience.
And then we're also excited to,because the other thing is a lot
(25:45):
of people don't knownecessarily what they want to do
, and that's you know.
We all remember that phase inour life where our parents are
like you know, their friends arelike hey, what do you want to
be when you grow up?
Sam, come on, tell us somethingcool and amazing.
And you're like I gonna be this.
What did you say?
Samuel Wines (26:04):
I don't think I ever said anything.
Andrew Gray (26:05):
You just stared at him.
Samuel Wines (26:07):
I think I said I wanted to be the next David
Attenborough.
Andrew Gray (26:09):
Yeah, well, it's pretty close actually, hey, yeah
it's somewhat related Like.
I they have the same clothes.
Samuel Wines (26:15):
Yeah, that's a start, you know.
At least it's like a fake untilyou make it.
That's it.
Aesthetically similarsensibilities.
That's a start, yeah, I think,and on top of that, like you
were saying before, not just alllab other areas I guess I'm
really curious about exploringis I know that there's a really
(26:36):
like there is fertile ground atthe moment to be able to explore
things like living systemsthinking, ecological design,
bi-design, all of these sort ofemerging fields that there are
places to explore this overseas,like real world laboratories
where you can be experimentingwith this sort of stuff, but
maybe not a crazy amount of thatis happening over here.
(26:57):
And I find that that's gonna bea really exciting point as well
is that we can kind of become abit of a basin of attraction for
all of these.
Andrew Gray (27:04):
Yeah, I've seen quite often you've done really
good job of sort of networkingwith, I think, a lot of the
prominent people out there thatare writing the reports and
stuff.
So it'd be nice to actuallygive that a space to sort of
manifest and see what grows outof that.
So I am looking forward toseeing that as well.
Samuel Wines (27:20):
Yeah, actually good point.
So both Materium, who kind ofworld leaders in exploring what
the next generation of aregenerative materials economy
might look like.
So that's across, likepackaging, that's across
textiles for clothing, and alsothe built environment.
So I'm really looking forwardto seeing how that sort of
(27:41):
collaboration can unfold againso they have a platform online
like a recipe, like I guess youcould say.
Andrew Gray (27:48):
That's a really yeah.
I really liked that idea of arecipe book.
Samuel Wines (27:51):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (27:52):
Only because I can only cook if I have a recipe
book.
Samuel Wines (27:54):
Exactly so.
It's like that, but forbiomaterials, which is really
cool, and it's open access.
Anyone can use it.
They're working with Googleorg,actually, and they have a whole
bunch of scholars helping themout, so AI experts helping them
out with creating an LLM thatcan actually help you with.
Have you considered using this,or if you tried using that.
So I'm really excited to seehow that goes.
(28:18):
Yeah, we had a really goodconversation with Liz Corbin,
who's one of the co-founders,there yesterday and then
obviously Metabolic as well, soanother sort of world leader in
exploring systems, thinking andcircularity over in
predominantly Europe, but we'relooking at finding ways to
collaborate with them again tosort of bring a lot of their
(28:40):
findings to Australia and findways in which we can see,
because I mean, when you look atthe amount of so, like Victoria
is actually quite fascinating,and I think we have maybe eight
or 10 of the 12 bioregions inAustralia for agriculture, so
we're in a very unique placewhere there's actually quite a
(29:02):
lot that can happen when itcomes to the bioeconomy down
here.
Andrew Gray (29:05):
So yeah, and how would you describe the
bioeconomy?
Because I feel like that's aword that's gonna get thrown out
a lot around.
Samuel Wines (29:10):
Oh gosh, that's so true.
Andrew Gray (29:12):
I think we should probably start helping paint
pictures.
For sure, at least we think itis.
Samuel Wines (29:18):
Well, here's the catch right.
Because, like, the bioeconomytechnically includes things like
cattle and agriculture and likeall of these sorts of things,
pretty much anything that'sbio-based.
So that's all living systemsand whatnot.
But I guess a lot of the timewhen we're referring to the
bioeconomy it's less like let'sgo grow another cow and more
(29:43):
like how can we replace some ofthe systems and structures and
patterns of production,distribution and, I guess,
industry that are currently verylike petrochemical focused, and
how can we find biologicalalternatives for that?
(30:04):
Yeah, but no, so technicallyit's anything that's within the
biological cycle counts as thebioeconomy.
So we're already pretty pumpingin that department when it
comes to the conventional way oflooking at it.
But I'm trying to bring alongthat lens of can we try?
And when we are thinking aboutthis bioeconomy, how can we do
(30:25):
it in a way that is regenerativeby design, so actively
contributing to not justmaximizing financial return on
investment but foundationalpools of social or ecological or
even spiritual capital?
So it's not just making moremoney, but how can we actually
add to, I guess, design moreresilient, regenerative systems
(30:47):
and how can we improve thequality of life, not just for
humanity but for all livingbeings?
So when I speak aboutbioeconomy it's in that vein,
which I know it can be quitedifferent to maybe a more
conventional take where it mightbe seen as predominantly
primary industries, yeah, but Ithink it's not to discount that.
(31:07):
I think that's going to be amassive area where we need to be
applying permacultureprinciples or exploring
regenerative agriculturalpractices.
Agroforestry, food forests allthis sort of stuff is incredibly
important and from that therewill be many different elements
and ways in which we can try andclose the loop on those
material cycles so that less isgoing to waste.
(31:29):
We're rebuilding top soil.
Some of that agricultural wastethat isn't going into building
top soil could be used as thesealternative products, for
leather alternatives orpackaging alternatives or
whatnot, but also bearing inmind that as we increase that
demand on the, let's say, thebiological nutrient cycle, it
(31:51):
can't be competing with foodsources for humans.
Andrew Gray (31:56):
So it's really taken that systems thinking
approach.
Samuel Wines (31:59):
Like what are the?
End-ordered consequences Quiteliterally like as wide boundary
or thinking sort of perspectivewhen addressing this as possible
.
Otherwise, all we're going todo is respect the same patterns
and processes of the past, whichis Shift the problem to other
parts?
Yeah, not great.
So I totally acknowledge thatthere's it's quite a fuzzy and
uncertain sort of area andthere's so much that needs to
(32:19):
happen.
But I think that it's kind oflike whether the world's all
going to fall apart or whetherwe make it through.
It doesn't matter.
Doing this sort of thing is theright approach for both sides
of the.
Andrew Gray (32:32):
Yeah, and I think you know just to think about.
I think the other thing here isthat it does sound like a.
It is a massive problem and youknow if Someone's listening to
this, it's not necessarily youknow how are you going to do
this?
How are you gonna fix all this?
(32:53):
There's a lot of people,there's a huge ecosystem around
the world currently activelygrowing and Leveraging their
time and resources towardsaddressing these big global
challenges.
So don't want to don't anybodyto walk away from this with any
Timber gloom.
Samuel Wines (33:10):
No it's exactly that you need some for like, and
the thing is like yeah, it ispretty fucked like if If we look
at it it's it does, but thatdoesn't mean that we don't have
active hope, right.
It's like life, life isconstantly adapting and evolving
to a changing context and Allthat we're saying is that we
need to be baking that into ourways of organizing Humanity
(33:34):
essentially, so that needs to beupdating to reflect that and to
be Reflecting a changing anduncertain environment from
climate change and on resourcescarcity, all these other things
.
We need to be baking that in sothat we're more sustainable in
a circular and Doing everythingwe can to utilize, like
renewable biological resourcesand you know, biological
(33:56):
processes to produce foodmaterials and energy In a
sustainable manner.
So, rather than you know, justlike it's a really easy, like
let's just use fossil fuels orlike let's just use, like for
non renewable rare earth metalsor minerals or of anything of
that kind, like Nature doesn'treally ever run off, that if you
(34:17):
look, it's like pretty muchwhat, like five, six Organic
sort of molecules that most oflife is based up.
What is it?
Carbon, nitrogen, nitrogen,oxygen, and then like
sprinklings of phosphorus andsulfur and a few other things.
Yeah, it's not that much, butyou know, from that small amount
of chemicals you can get quitea, you get the diversity of life
(34:40):
, and so it's thinking.
You know how do we put thatgreen chemistry lens onto things
.
How can we think about how wedesign products and processes to
Sort of mimic or work withnature as model and mentor?
But yeah, I think hey look,it's a multifaceted sort of
space and it crosses pretty muchevery sector to do with Making
(35:01):
food, health care, and then evenwhich isn't just the tech right
no no, it's, thank you, thanksfor pointing that out.
It's like if you look at what'sthe framing I use for this one,
it's like you have your.
So it's not just so.
To me, tech, the tech layer alot of the time, is
infrastructure.
So what we're referring to isit's not just the infrastructure
(35:22):
that we need to be, I guess,redesigning, but it's also our
social structures, so our waysof organizing business, so that
it's, you know, not just Justmaximizing profit and
shareholder return on investmentbut, as we're saying before,
optimizing for the system as awhole, thinking more
regeneratively in the way inwhich we organize and structure
things, but also the like, thesuperstructure, which you could
(35:45):
kind of just say culture.
So what kind of culture do webring to a place and how can
that be?
You know, how can we rechange,how can we reimagine our
perception of like, what wevalue?
So it's not just that monetarything, but how do we, how do we
value intangible things likerelationships and Knowledge
(36:06):
that's not just derived from thesort of scientific, western,
scientific sort of narrative?
So all of this sort of stuff, Ithink, is, how do we try and
find ways to collaborate withand work with these ways of
thinking, doing and being thathopefully Don't interfere with
life's ability to createconditions conducive to life.
Andrew Gray (36:29):
Mic drop.
I can't do it.
Samuel Wines (36:35):
Is there anything else that we wanted to to riff
on for this little update?
Andrew Gray (36:39):
No, I think if anybody's interested in anything
we've said, obviously go checkout the website.
If you are interested in thePacific Science Hub, if you're
an educator, if you're anindustry or if you're someone
that just wants to get morehands-on in the lab and or you
know, just come hang out andtalk what we're talking about or
whatever you want to talk about.
(37:01):
That's okay too.
You can find us either throughthe website.
Samuel Wines (37:05):
You can look up bioquisitive www Dot, bio Q,
that's BIO Q, dot, org, dot, auyep and we've got little
platform that we're growingthere so we can chat, share
stuff and yeah and I guess we'llalso be sharing a lot of this
through co-lab socials andNewsletter and everything like
(37:27):
that.
So if people want to keep up todate, check that out, subscribe
.
Like what do people say onthese Pog?
Andrew Gray (37:33):
don't say it Just like.
Samuel Wines (37:39):
Stop, you don't have to do that.
No, that's, we're not aboutthat.
But yeah, I think that probablyconcludes our February
mid-February update.
So thank you for finding timeto sit down.
I know it's always difficultfor us to Get like half an hour
of time.
Andrew Gray (37:58):
I'm surprised there hasn't been any deliveries or
anything like.
It's been pretty chill today.
Samuel Wines (38:03):
I only a couple of emails have come through, but
nothing.
Nothing on top of that.
So much time for activities, oh, what do you know?
The email that came through isMonash Innovation Labs.
Andrew Gray (38:15):
Oh, cool yeah, great yeah nice and then
Jermaine.
Samuel Wines (38:18):
So Glowy, we didn't mention.
Glowy.
There's a little last bit ofthis.
So we've been chatting with oneof our friends who now has the
I guess the entire IP for Glowy,which is a bioluminescence, if
you've ever seen back to theglowing algae or aquatic life,
(38:39):
diana, flagellates or what arethe other ones?
Andrew Gray (38:43):
diatoms, yeah, basically that.
So by learning that it's notlike shine a light on Something
and it reflects light, but likeproduces light which is pretty
amazing.
There's even a, a petunia, youcan buy in the US.
What, yeah?
And they've made it glow.
I shouldn't say glow give.
Offline fascinating yeah, verydifferent regulatory yeah, I
(39:06):
can't imagine that happeninghere.
Samuel Wines (39:07):
No, no, but yeah, so that's cool.
So that might be another thingto keep an eye out for just
glowing furniture around thearound Melbourne.
Andrew Gray (39:16):
Life, yeah, but not not using electricity Super
cool.
Samuel Wines (39:20):
Anyway, we'll wrap it here.
Thanks so much for your timeand we'll see you again soon.
Andrew Gray (39:25):
Awesome.
Popular Podcasts
1. The Podium
The Podium: An NBC Olympic and Paralympic podcast. Join us for insider coverage during the intense competition at the 2024 Paris Olympic and Paralympic Games. In the run-up to the Opening Ceremony, we’ll bring you deep into the stories and events that have you know and those you'll be hard-pressed to forget.
2. In The Village
In The Village will take you into the most exclusive areas of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games to explore the daily life of athletes, complete with all the funny, mundane and unexpected things you learn off the field of play. Join Elizabeth Beisel as she sits down with Olympians each day in Paris.
3. iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2024 Olympics.