December 3, 2023 • 25 mins
Are you prepared to navigate the complex world of trademarks? Brace yourself for an enlightening conversation with Elizabeth Henson, Chief Marketing Officer at Indie Law.
Liz takes us through the intricacies of trademarks, demystifying the process of choosing a strong and unique business name. Drawing on my personal journey of trademarking "The Sugar Mama," we discuss how having a strong brand identity can help you stand out in your industry.
In today's episode, we are joined by Elizabeth Henson, Chief Marketing Officer at Indie Law, helps build brand awareness around trademarks and supports Indie Law in being the GO-TO firm for Trademarks
We have all faced the unpleasant experience of a copycat infringing upon our brand. We're not alone in this battle, and we share our experiences, mishaps, and the processes of reclaiming our brand identity. We also delve into the possible consequences of trademark infringement. Learn from our experiences and understand how to protect your business from such unfortunate incidents.
We round up our discussion with insights on the importance of legal protection for your business. We shed light on Indie Law's role in aiding entrepreneurs to tackle legal issues like trademark infringement and copycats. Liz also shares some insightful highlights from her podcast, "Messy Success." There's a free gift and a legal consultation call waiting for you. So tune in to equip yourself with the knowledge and tools to be legally secure in your business endeavors.
Free Gift: https://www.indielaw.com/bundle
Go to https://www.indielaw.com/call for a free legal consultation and let them know to mention "Shannon O'Brien"
If you’ve connected with or been inspired by this episode in any way, leave us a review and let us know your biggest takeaway - I’d love to hear how you embrace Sugaring For All!! And while you've got your phone out, make sure to follow us on Instagram @Love2Sugar.
If you are interested in learning more about Radeq Lab's Premium Prebiotic Sugar Line of products, you can find them at www.radeqlab.us.
If you are interested in our business planner you can find the SugarBoss Planner here --->https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/love2sugar
The link to our Monthly SugarBiz Blueprint: https://www.love2sugar.com/offers/cMhp76LA/checkout
Cheers to your Sweet Success!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello all and welcome back to this episode of the
Sugar Show.
I absolutely love doing thispodcast and mostly because I get
to meet the coolest humans.
Now.
I introduced you to Joey Vitaleback in the day.
We've had him on a couple oftimes to educate you about
trademarks and being legallystrong in your business.
(00:24):
He started indie law quite afew years ago and has really
reached out his hand with histeam to help us to understand
exactly how to just be legallyfit and legally smart in our
sugar business and our skincarebusiness if you're an
esthetician or a cosmetologistlistening to this.
So in this episode I actuallygot to meet Elizabeth Henson.
(00:46):
She is the chief marketingofficer at Indie Law and her job
is to help build brandawareness around trademarks and
she supports Indie Law in beingthe go-to firm for trademarks.
But really, what you're gonnalearn today is how strong you
(01:09):
need to be before and after thetrademarks process, because it
is so important for us tounderstand how to get a name and
then what do you do whensomebody copycats that name?
That's what this episode is allabout and I cannot wait for you
to meet Liz.
Welcome to this sugar show.
(01:29):
I'm Shannon O'Brien, bodysugaring expert and licensed
esthetician who's taken my ownskincare business from zero to
multiple six figures and hashelped over 3,000 students learn
how to do the same.
Now let me tell you it wasn'tall that long ago that I lacked
the time, budget and knowledgeneeded to grow my small business
as a body sugaring pro.
(01:49):
If we were to press rewind,you'd see the many failed
attempts and lessons learnedthat have helped me build the
profitable business that I havetoday, one that runs on its own
and gives me the lifestyle andfreedom that I only used to
dream of.
I created the sugar show to handyou my secrets and give you the
simple, step-by-step strategiesto help you do the same.
(02:11):
So if you're a cosmetologist oresthetician or wax professional
who's looking to fill yourbooks, make more money in your
business and enjoy greaterbalance between your work and
home life, you are in the rightplace.
Let's dive in.
["the Last Song of the Year"].
(02:33):
Ms Liz, it is so good to haveyou on the show.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Hi Shannon, I'm so excited to be here.
Joey has said such wonderfulthings about you.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I love me some, joey, and, as they know, they can
always listen to our previousepisodes of Joey and those are
all inside the show and I amglad to have your fresh face.
Not that we don't love Joey,but I'm glad to have your fresh
face because it's always fun.
I love his team.
He has built such a awesome,dynamic group of boss babes that
(03:09):
have created that make up histeam.
So you are officially the CMOof Indy Law.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yes, yes, CMO, head of growth, whatever you wanna
call me with that day.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And the key is you're really just trying to spread
the word right, like let's getthe right message out there, so
people are learning the rightway.
And that's what I absolutelylove about Joey's training is
hey guys, let's make sure thatwe learn the right way, how to
do this, and not what Googletells us or not what we heard
from a friend, but really frompeople that know, and so that's
(03:46):
why we always have you on thepodcast.
We love it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, and I love how Joey talks about playing offense
and not defense, right, likewe're here to protect our brand
so that we can sleep better atnight, not necessarily to go
after everybody else, right?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean, that's what we don't wanna do.
That right.
We also need to protectourselves and make sure that
we're doing good business and tobe legit in this world.
So I brought Ms Liz on today totalk about picking a legit name
and not being a copycat.
And that's huge in our industry, liz, as you and I were talking
(04:20):
before the show, becausethere's so many sweet names as
it relates to doing sugar and somany smooth names and radiant
names, and all of that with anesthetician.
You have an esthetician right.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes, and I love her.
Shout out to Natalie I'll haveto send her this episode, but I
have been with her for goshprobably five, six years now.
Yes, I love it, your face lady.
You called it, I love it.
I call her my face lady.
Anybody that compliments me onmy skin or my brows, I'm like
well, I have a face lady andshe's wonderful.
She's responsible for this.
I mean, I wish I had like abefore and after, because I
(04:57):
actually look better and youngereven though it's six years
later.
But I have pretty intenserosacea, I have tantalisia, I
have all the things, and I justdidn't have to care for my skin.
And now that I have her, everytime I go see her, she's like oh
my God, oh my God, because I dowhat she tells me to do.
I'm like Natalie.
What do I need to do?
I'm running a race this weekend.
It's going to be cold.
(05:18):
I'm a snob about my skin.
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I love that.
Everyone needs a good face lady.
Everyone needs a good sugarbabe.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yes, and we use the sugar wax, so I know exactly
what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I love it.
You are sugaring.
That's so great.
So I have told this story.
When Joey and I talked about itand I'll just refresh for the
audience about how my clientstarted calling me the sugar
mama.
And we have just been.
I've just been the sugar mamafor a long time and when Joey
and I met I was like dude, Ithink I probably should
(05:51):
trademark this thing.
This was like 14 years ago orsomething crazy, like I think I
should probably trademark thisthing because it's a pretty
great name, right.
And so I did.
And I am the sugar mama as itrelates to all things education
and the cosmetology world, andso that's who I am and what I do
(06:12):
.
And there have been lots ofcopycats out there and I want to
prevent this for our audiencefrom happening, because what
happens is they get all excited,they learn how to sugar or they
learn how to do skincare andthey're really excited to create
this name and they call it thesweet peach or they call it the
(06:32):
smooth kitty or they call itwhatever.
And usually what happens and Iknow you probably heard this
what happens is y'all get a name.
You've usually had cocktailswith your friends and you're
like I'm gonna call myself, I'mgonna say sweet peach, I'm sure
it's out there Picking that nameout of my head.
And then you go immediately togo daddy and look and see if the
(06:52):
domain is available.
And then they say, oh well,sweetpeachcom isn't available,
but the sweet peach, is thatavailable?
Or the underscore sweet peach?
And they start going throughthese names and very quickly
realize like, oh wait, a lot ofthese names are already taken.
But what they're not realizingis that you can't just put the
(07:16):
in front of sweet peach andthink that you can have that
name just because the domain isavailable.
What are you kind of seeing inthis copycat space?
Like just kind of help, my help, my peeps, with any advice that
you have?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, so first and foremost is when we're going off
on our own and we're startingour business, we wanna stand out
.
So, as cute and fun as the namemight be, if you do a search
and definitely start on Google,don't just start on godaddycom,
but start on Google and Googlethis name that you're thinking
of and see what comes up.
Because if you are gonna be aneedle in a haystack, you don't
(07:53):
want that name anyways.
You wanna really createsomething that helps you stand
out in your market.
So I actually had somebodycopycat my podcast at one point
and I was like, oh, I'm sureit's not intentional, they
probably just didn't know.
But like even the intro hadsome of the exact same pieces of
my tagline.
But at the end of the day I waslike it's like they didn't even
(08:15):
do a Google search, like if youGoogle my podcast the messy
success podcast like it is nosecret that I exist, like it is
out there.
So they had to have like eithernot done a Google search or not
cared, or whatever it may be, Idon't know.
But at the end of the day I didthis huge like sigh of relief
(08:37):
because I had trademarked mypodcast name and I was just had
this moment of like thankgoodness that I did that, cause
I kind of just got my trademark.
It felt like the next step.
I knew everyone wascomplimenting me on my name, so
I had something good going and Inever really thought like I
would have to take advantage ofthe fact that I did trademark it
(08:59):
, and I was so freaking thankfulthat I did, because it wasn't
so much about ew I don't wanther using it it was more about I
don't want anybody in thisworld to tell me that I need to
change the name of my podcast,and that's what it.
That's the relief that it gaveme was I own this and nobody can
tell me that I can't use it,and that's what was so
(09:21):
empowering that and it's reallyconfusing.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, if I said, oh, I heard about this messy success
podcast and there's more thanone, yes, it's confusing and
it's not fair to the originalowner and, to be honest, like
you said, you don't want thatperson's name anyway.
So I really don't understandwhen people will like, copy my
name and it's like it's a greatname, I totally get it, but why
(09:48):
would you copy it if I'm allover the place, I'm speaking
with it, I have podcasts aboutit, I have training, you know
training programs about it.
Like, why would you want to usethe same name?
It's a little bit embarrassingfor them, but so so what happens
then?
So this other group startedthis podcast.
Yeah, talk to me about like.
First of all, you're like, ohshoot, there's another messy
(10:10):
success.
Did you kind of panic?
A little bit Like, oh shoot, amI gonna have to take my down?
I was just so surprised.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yes, I was just so surprised Like I just never
thought I knew someone could goout there and use the phrase
messy success Like that Ifigured was very likely.
I'm actually in the process oftrading that without the word
podcast, but I had trademarkedthe messy success podcast.
So I was like this is a podcast, they cannot do this.
And so I reached out to Joey's,the fulfillment team, right
(10:36):
Like my pals, and I was likelook, I said I'm not like angry,
I don't wanna be nasty, but Ido say all the time, go to
iTunes and search the messysuccess podcast.
Like that is kind of how I tellpeople how to find me.
So the last thing I want is forthem to kind of see more than
one and be like wait a minute.
Like you said, I don't wantthem to be confused.
(10:57):
So they helped me craft up avery, you know, kind and more
informal cease and desist,because I really didn't want to
go about it and just be, likeyou know, rude or demanding.
Because I'm also a businesscoach, I wanna empower other
people to do their own thing.
Absolutely.
I do think, like you know,competition isn't a real thing
and I believe in community overcompetition.
(11:17):
So I wanted to embody thosecharacteristics but at the same
time, you know, do my brand thejustice that it deserves and,
like, take care of it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, it's a business thing, it's not a personal.
Gee, we don't like this otherperson.
They might be very lovely intheir podcast concept, might be
very lovely in their intention,might not have been bad, but at
the end of the day it's business.
And so you were able to writean informal kind of like hey,
what was the response you gotfrom that other person?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So their attorney actually responded and I kind of
just left it after that becauseI was like, look, I just want
them to know that I own this andI'm not gonna like be all crazy
and like make them deleteeverything.
But I think they kind oftransitioned into like a blog
presence versus a podcastpresence and they just didn't
(12:08):
stick around.
I mean, a lot of people start apodcast and they don't realize
how much work it is.
I think they did like sixepisodes.
So at the end of the day, likeI'm just not worried, I'm not
threatened, I don't feelanything about it, but I did
want to make sure that like hey,like I exist, I own this name
and you're kind of using it.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah.
But so in your time spent withJoey, what are you hearing?
Because if you get the letterthat says you're using the name
that the other person hastrademarked yes, sometimes
you've gotten everything puttogether from a domain name that
says, like the underscore messy, underscore success, underscore
(12:49):
podcast, like well, that's notthe same, but it is.
It is.
Yeah, it cannot be any sort oflikeness to your name.
I found out that you can't evenspell the name Sugar Mama, so
I'm M-A-M-A.
You can't even spell it M-O-M-Aor M-O-M-M-A without it keeping
back from the trademark office,which I thought was interesting
(13:09):
.
You can't call yourself a SugarMama.
You can't call yourself, Idon't know, the Sugar Mama's,
because it's just still reallytoo confusing and they'll kick
it back.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yes, especially when it's in the same classification,
because I'm sure there areSugar Mama bakeries out there,
but they're not in the sameclassification as you, so it's
not really an issue.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
So are you?
What happens if the other partysays too bad, we're using it.
I don't care what you say.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, that's when you think you're lucky stars, that
you have an attorney.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, you want to avoid that, right Like you
really don't want to have afight with this person, you know
, and that's why you have anattorney and they can hold their
feet to the flame.
It's so funny becauseestheticians, we want love,
peace, harmony.
We don't want it to be messy,as you would say.
We want everyone to be, youknow, prosperous and to really
(14:10):
do well in their business.
But you can't use my name inthe meantime.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, and you don't want to, because you want
everyone to stand outindividually and to have
something that makes them uniqueand have their name, you know,
mean something that's unique andspecial to them.
So like, at the end of the day,it's like kind of they're only
hurting themselves, you know, ifthey copycat, if they don't go
out on their own to beinnovative and creative.
They're only hurting themselvesbecause they're just going to
(14:34):
blend in even more.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So there is.
We didn't talk about thisbefore, but I think you've
probably heard.
There's a new way to searchtrademarks and it's no longer
that archaic way, right?
They have a whole new systemnow.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, so Joey is actually doing some trainings on
this right now.
He did his first training on itlast Friday, just to kind of
show people how to use this newsearch engine that they're
creating, and then he's doinganother one next Friday.
So I don't know if that'ssomething he'll continue to do.
I think the official change isgetting rolled out, like at the
end of the month, or more partsto the change, I don't know,
(15:11):
because you know I'm on themarketing side so I'm not super
deep in the weeds of the thesearching.
But I do know that he's beenproviding some really good
resources and tools on like howto use that, because it is going
to be different and you'regoing to see a lot more results
than you did before.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Okay good, because before it was like archaic the
way they did it.
It was just like you had to useplus and and and star after
each word.
And you know I mean I took awhole class on it with Joey.
It's thank God he has hisclasses, because he really made
it so much easier and less wasteof my time.
So if you haven't already takenthis class, we're going to link
that to show notes, becauselegit was like the way that I'm
(15:49):
able to do a trademark I coulddo another trademark with by
using those same same skills aswell.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So it's a really really great class to take, yeah
, and he really breaks it downand makes it so simple and I
love that he talks about, likewhat kind of entrepreneur do you
want to be?
Do you want to be the duct tapeentrepreneur that's always kind
of winging it, or do you wantto be like the more legit CEO
and business owner?
And I know that reallyresonated with me because I
always know that when I takemyself seriously on the outside,
(16:16):
I'm going to take myselfseriously on the inside.
If I'm getting my businesslicense, if I'm getting my
trademarks, if I'm getting mycontracts in place, I'm that
much more confident, you know,going out and facing the world.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah for sure.
So you also have quite atreasure chest of materials and
I'm hoping to provide some to myaudience.
But talk about, like, what arethe things that people should
really start in their toolbox asit relates to kind of legal
forms.
(16:46):
Like there's just so much toknow and I feel like it changes
all the time.
It was different when I startedmy business 20 years ago than
it is now.
So what are the kind of topthings that people should have
top of mind?
Besides, don't just go to adomain search to see if your
name is available.
Let's do this the right way.
So let's talk about some of thetools in the toolbox that
someone should have.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And we do have all of this in a free gift for you
guys.
We're going to put that in theshow notes, but it's indielawcom
slash bundle, but essentiallyeverything that you need to get
started in Indie law can helpwith your LLC as well, so
they'll do your trademark andLLC together.
But this special little freegift has six different contract
templates.
Think about like terms of usethat needs to go on your website
(17:29):
or an NDA when you hire yourfirst VA or whatever it might be
.
But all of these differentcontracts so you can customize
them for your own business injust minutes and have everything
you need.
There's also the ultimatebusiness survival guide that
covers seven mistakes that youcan't afford to make.
So let's just go ahead and getit out there Everything that you
(17:51):
don't want to do.
And then, of course, ourtrademark masterclass that you
just mentioned, which is sovaluable and helps you protect
your ideas and kind of avoidthese copycat situations from
the get go, because this personthat named their podcast the
same thing as me.
Seen a training like this, thenthey could have avoided that
(18:11):
altogether, right, right.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah.
I mean, it's about having theknowledge right and just having
these tools in your toolbox andsaying, okay, I already know
this, I know how to do this.
I'm the owner of my company.
I have to have an NDA if I'mgoing to bring people in and
understand my stuff.
I have to have a trademark, Ihave to have a business license,
I have an LLC.
Like there's so much to know,and thank you for giving us that
(18:38):
little bundle, because thatwill be really helpful and we'll
have that in the show notes aswell.
What do you think is the numberone problem that Joey and Indie
Law kind of sees and solves?
Do you think it's trademarks?
Do you think it's just forminga business?
Like, what are peoplestruggling with the most?
(18:58):
And how has Indie Law been ableto kind of shift?
Because he used to just be thetrademark guy and now he's like
so much more like yeah, I meanwe really do just trademarks.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean we have some of these extra business-y type
things because we believe thatthey just make your brand even
stronger, and what we reallywanna focus on is helping people
protect their brand and dothings so that they don't have
to do anything more difficult.
But it's all about prevention,like I said, just being able to
sleep at night because I knowthat I own the names in my
(19:29):
business and I own my businessname, whatever it might be.
But unfortunately, a lot ofpeople don't take trademarks
very seriously because theydon't think that it's urgent.
So, while I would like to saythat the biggest problem we want
to solve is to help people bepreventative and play offense
instead of defense, we do spenda lot of time helping people
(19:51):
untangle problems because theytried to use like Legal Zoom or
Trademark Engine, or they triedto do it themselves, and now
they're getting C-Synthesis andthey didn't do the
classifications right, or nowthey're infringing on somebody
else and they've gotta do a$30,000 rebrand.
We had a client recently thatwas like I want this to happen
(20:12):
to anybody else.
Like I just gotta sayC-Synthesis, I'm having to
rebrand, it's gonna cost mycompany $30,000 and I didn't
know what I needed to know, andI don't want that to happen to
anybody else.
So we're spending a lot of timejust trying to help people
understand how to bepreventative.
Yes, you might pay two or$3,000 upfront, but good gosh,
isn't that better than a $30,000rebrand?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Oh my gosh, yes, and the feeling that you have a
partner in your corner when youget that letter is huge, because
it's really scary to get aletter.
So getting an audit like, okay,we're gonna peel back the
layers of your business and, oh,you're using the wrong name
trouble.
It's never happened to mebecause I have Joey, but it's
(20:59):
happened to people that I know.
And as it relates toasceticians, I think If you know
how to find that name foryourself and Joey can help with
that, but if you know how tofind that name for yourself and
what I mean by that is you'renot looking up a domain name
search, you're not just like, oh, instagram, the handle's
available.
(21:19):
You know it's using it incommerce.
That is when it begins and soyou have to.
You know it might be that youstarted calling yourself the
sugar mama.
You know my name.
You started calling yourselfthe sugar mama and you're a
trainer in, you know sugaringand you refer to yourself as the
sugar mama and maybe youstarted doing that, just, you
(21:40):
know, a few years ago and I'vebeen doing this for 15 years,
you know.
And so that's what I really amconcerned about is people just
not having, you know not havingthat armor and being prepared,
and that's why we're so gratefulfor you.
So okay, miss Singh, thank youso much for all of your
information.
We're going to get you back onto be talking about this messy
(22:02):
success podcast, because I knowI'm a walking example of initial
messy success, so you can getyour sugar mama on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh my gosh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yes, but we're going to talk about that for sure.
And, as always, my friends,thank you so much for tuning
into the sugar show.
It is always just a sweetsuccess to have these gurus on
here that can help us and reallybring us down that journey to
not only loving to sugar butgetting our clients to love it
to sugar in a safe way as well.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So thank, you, miss Liz, and we will see you on the
show again.
Thank you, Shannon, and youguys make sure that you use
Shannon's link and book a callwith us.
We do have completely freebrand protection calls where we
can help you decide iftrademarking is the right move
for you.
So head over to that link andgrab that free call.
We'd love to meet you, yes callthem, use them.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I love it.
Thanks, girl.
Yes, thank you.
Sugar pros and boss babes.
I should have hope you had somuch knowledge that you had to
write down and you had to maybeeven listen to this episode over
again, because Liz is a bundleof information and I'm looking
forward to listening to hermessy success podcast because
(23:09):
Lord knows that it's been ajourney for me and my success,
and I can't hardly wait to learnmore from her because, as you
know, I tell you to always be astudent, so don't forget to go
down into those show notes.
You have the free gift, which isthe bundle link, and then you
also have the ability to get afree legal consult call with
them.
I asked them if they would dothat for us and they did.
(23:32):
They just said let them knowthat Shannon, the sugar mama
O'Brien, sent them, sent you.
So I hope that you can reallybe smart about your business and
making sure that you're legallylegit and in the law is the
place to help you, because theyare amazing humans who really do
genuinely want you to be smartand protected.
(23:53):
I hope that you have afabulously sweet week and I look
forward to chatting with you inthe next episode.
Hello all and welcome back to this episode of the
Sugar Show.
I absolutely love doing thispodcast and mostly because I get
to meet the coolest humans.
Now.
I introduced you to Joey Vitaleback in the day.
We've had him on a couple oftimes to educate you about
trademarks and being legallystrong in your business.
(00:24):
He started indie law quite afew years ago and has really
reached out his hand with histeam to help us to understand
exactly how to just be legallyfit and legally smart in our
sugar business and our skincarebusiness if you're an
esthetician or a cosmetologistlistening to this.
So in this episode I actuallygot to meet Elizabeth Henson.
(00:46):
She is the chief marketingofficer at Indie Law and her job
is to help build brandawareness around trademarks and
she supports Indie Law in beingthe go-to firm for trademarks.
But really, what you're gonnalearn today is how strong you
(01:09):
need to be before and after thetrademarks process, because it
is so important for us tounderstand how to get a name and
then what do you do whensomebody copycats that name?
That's what this episode is allabout and I cannot wait for you
to meet Liz.
Welcome to this sugar show.
(01:29):
I'm Shannon O'Brien, bodysugaring expert and licensed
esthetician who's taken my ownskincare business from zero to
multiple six figures and hashelped over 3,000 students learn
how to do the same.
Now let me tell you it wasn'tall that long ago that I lacked
the time, budget and knowledgeneeded to grow my small business
as a body sugaring pro.
(01:49):
If we were to press rewind,you'd see the many failed
attempts and lessons learnedthat have helped me build the
profitable business that I havetoday, one that runs on its own
and gives me the lifestyle andfreedom that I only used to
dream of.
I created the sugar show to handyou my secrets and give you the
simple, step-by-step strategiesto help you do the same.
(02:11):
So if you're a cosmetologist oresthetician or wax professional
who's looking to fill yourbooks, make more money in your
business and enjoy greaterbalance between your work and
home life, you are in the rightplace.
Let's dive in.
["the Last Song of the Year"].
(02:33):
Ms Liz, it is so good to haveyou on the show.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Hi Shannon, I'm so excited to be here.
Joey has said such wonderfulthings about you.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I love me some, joey, and, as they know, they can
always listen to our previousepisodes of Joey and those are
all inside the show and I amglad to have your fresh face.
Not that we don't love Joey,but I'm glad to have your fresh
face because it's always fun.
I love his team.
He has built such a awesome,dynamic group of boss babes that
(03:09):
have created that make up histeam.
So you are officially the CMOof Indy Law.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yes, yes, CMO, head of growth, whatever you wanna
call me with that day.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And the key is you're really just trying to spread
the word right, like let's getthe right message out there, so
people are learning the rightway.
And that's what I absolutelylove about Joey's training is
hey guys, let's make sure thatwe learn the right way, how to
do this, and not what Googletells us or not what we heard
from a friend, but really frompeople that know, and so that's
(03:46):
why we always have you on thepodcast.
We love it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, and I love how Joey talks about playing offense
and not defense, right, likewe're here to protect our brand
so that we can sleep better atnight, not necessarily to go
after everybody else, right?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, I mean, that's what we don't wanna do.
That right.
We also need to protectourselves and make sure that
we're doing good business and tobe legit in this world.
So I brought Ms Liz on today totalk about picking a legit name
and not being a copycat.
And that's huge in our industry, liz, as you and I were talking
(04:20):
before the show, becausethere's so many sweet names as
it relates to doing sugar and somany smooth names and radiant
names, and all of that with anesthetician.
You have an esthetician right.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes, and I love her.
Shout out to Natalie I'll haveto send her this episode, but I
have been with her for goshprobably five, six years now.
Yes, I love it, your face lady.
You called it, I love it.
I call her my face lady.
Anybody that compliments me onmy skin or my brows, I'm like
well, I have a face lady andshe's wonderful.
She's responsible for this.
I mean, I wish I had like abefore and after, because I
(04:57):
actually look better and youngereven though it's six years
later.
But I have pretty intenserosacea, I have tantalisia, I
have all the things, and I justdidn't have to care for my skin.
And now that I have her, everytime I go see her, she's like oh
my God, oh my God, because I dowhat she tells me to do.
I'm like Natalie.
What do I need to do?
I'm running a race this weekend.
It's going to be cold.
(05:18):
I'm a snob about my skin.
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I love that.
Everyone needs a good face lady.
Everyone needs a good sugarbabe.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yes, and we use the sugar wax, so I know exactly
what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I love it.
You are sugaring.
That's so great.
So I have told this story.
When Joey and I talked about itand I'll just refresh for the
audience about how my clientstarted calling me the sugar
mama.
And we have just been.
I've just been the sugar mamafor a long time and when Joey
and I met I was like dude, Ithink I probably should
(05:51):
trademark this thing.
This was like 14 years ago orsomething crazy, like I think I
should probably trademark thisthing because it's a pretty
great name, right.
And so I did.
And I am the sugar mama as itrelates to all things education
and the cosmetology world, andso that's who I am and what I do
(06:12):
.
And there have been lots ofcopycats out there and I want to
prevent this for our audiencefrom happening, because what
happens is they get all excited,they learn how to sugar or they
learn how to do skincare andthey're really excited to create
this name and they call it thesweet peach or they call it the
(06:32):
smooth kitty or they call itwhatever.
And usually what happens and Iknow you probably heard this
what happens is y'all get a name.
You've usually had cocktailswith your friends and you're
like I'm gonna call myself, I'mgonna say sweet peach, I'm sure
it's out there Picking that nameout of my head.
And then you go immediately togo daddy and look and see if the
(06:52):
domain is available.
And then they say, oh well,sweetpeachcom isn't available,
but the sweet peach, is thatavailable?
Or the underscore sweet peach?
And they start going throughthese names and very quickly
realize like, oh wait, a lot ofthese names are already taken.
But what they're not realizingis that you can't just put the
(07:16):
in front of sweet peach andthink that you can have that
name just because the domain isavailable.
What are you kind of seeing inthis copycat space?
Like just kind of help, my help, my peeps, with any advice that
you have?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, so first and foremost is when we're going off
on our own and we're startingour business, we wanna stand out
.
So, as cute and fun as the namemight be, if you do a search
and definitely start on Google,don't just start on godaddycom,
but start on Google and Googlethis name that you're thinking
of and see what comes up.
Because if you are gonna be aneedle in a haystack, you don't
(07:53):
want that name anyways.
You wanna really createsomething that helps you stand
out in your market.
So I actually had somebodycopycat my podcast at one point
and I was like, oh, I'm sureit's not intentional, they
probably just didn't know.
But like even the intro hadsome of the exact same pieces of
my tagline.
But at the end of the day I waslike it's like they didn't even
(08:15):
do a Google search, like if youGoogle my podcast the messy
success podcast like it is nosecret that I exist, like it is
out there.
So they had to have like eithernot done a Google search or not
cared, or whatever it may be, Idon't know.
But at the end of the day I didthis huge like sigh of relief
(08:37):
because I had trademarked mypodcast name and I was just had
this moment of like thankgoodness that I did that, cause
I kind of just got my trademark.
It felt like the next step.
I knew everyone wascomplimenting me on my name, so
I had something good going and Inever really thought like I
would have to take advantage ofthe fact that I did trademark it
(08:59):
, and I was so freaking thankfulthat I did, because it wasn't
so much about ew I don't wanther using it it was more about I
don't want anybody in thisworld to tell me that I need to
change the name of my podcast,and that's what it.
That's the relief that it gaveme was I own this and nobody can
tell me that I can't use it,and that's what was so
(09:21):
empowering that and it's reallyconfusing.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, if I said, oh, I heard about this messy success
podcast and there's more thanone, yes, it's confusing and
it's not fair to the originalowner and, to be honest, like
you said, you don't want thatperson's name anyway.
So I really don't understandwhen people will like, copy my
name and it's like it's a greatname, I totally get it, but why
(09:48):
would you copy it if I'm allover the place, I'm speaking
with it, I have podcasts aboutit, I have training, you know
training programs about it.
Like, why would you want to usethe same name?
It's a little bit embarrassingfor them, but so so what happens
then?
So this other group startedthis podcast.
Yeah, talk to me about like.
First of all, you're like, ohshoot, there's another messy
(10:10):
success.
Did you kind of panic?
A little bit Like, oh shoot, amI gonna have to take my down?
I was just so surprised.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yes, I was just so surprised Like I just never
thought I knew someone could goout there and use the phrase
messy success Like that Ifigured was very likely.
I'm actually in the process oftrading that without the word
podcast, but I had trademarkedthe messy success podcast.
So I was like this is a podcast, they cannot do this.
And so I reached out to Joey's,the fulfillment team, right
(10:36):
Like my pals, and I was likelook, I said I'm not like angry,
I don't wanna be nasty, but Ido say all the time, go to
iTunes and search the messysuccess podcast.
Like that is kind of how I tellpeople how to find me.
So the last thing I want is forthem to kind of see more than
one and be like wait a minute.
Like you said, I don't wantthem to be confused.
(10:57):
So they helped me craft up avery, you know, kind and more
informal cease and desist,because I really didn't want to
go about it and just be, likeyou know, rude or demanding.
Because I'm also a businesscoach, I wanna empower other
people to do their own thing.
Absolutely.
I do think, like you know,competition isn't a real thing
and I believe in community overcompetition.
(11:17):
So I wanted to embody thosecharacteristics but at the same
time, you know, do my brand thejustice that it deserves and,
like, take care of it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, it's a business thing, it's not a personal.
Gee, we don't like this otherperson.
They might be very lovely intheir podcast concept, might be
very lovely in their intention,might not have been bad, but at
the end of the day it's business.
And so you were able to writean informal kind of like hey,
what was the response you gotfrom that other person?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So their attorney actually responded and I kind of
just left it after that becauseI was like, look, I just want
them to know that I own this andI'm not gonna like be all crazy
and like make them deleteeverything.
But I think they kind oftransitioned into like a blog
presence versus a podcastpresence and they just didn't
(12:08):
stick around.
I mean, a lot of people start apodcast and they don't realize
how much work it is.
I think they did like sixepisodes.
So at the end of the day, likeI'm just not worried, I'm not
threatened, I don't feelanything about it, but I did
want to make sure that like hey,like I exist, I own this name
and you're kind of using it.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah.
But so in your time spent withJoey, what are you hearing?
Because if you get the letterthat says you're using the name
that the other person hastrademarked yes, sometimes
you've gotten everything puttogether from a domain name that
says, like the underscore messy, underscore success, underscore
(12:49):
podcast, like well, that's notthe same, but it is.
It is.
Yeah, it cannot be any sort oflikeness to your name.
I found out that you can't evenspell the name Sugar Mama, so
I'm M-A-M-A.
You can't even spell it M-O-M-Aor M-O-M-M-A without it keeping
back from the trademark office,which I thought was interesting
(13:09):
.
You can't call yourself a SugarMama.
You can't call yourself, Idon't know, the Sugar Mama's,
because it's just still reallytoo confusing and they'll kick
it back.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yes, especially when it's in the same classification,
because I'm sure there areSugar Mama bakeries out there,
but they're not in the sameclassification as you, so it's
not really an issue.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
So are you?
What happens if the other partysays too bad, we're using it.
I don't care what you say.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, that's when you think you're lucky stars, that
you have an attorney.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, you want to avoid that, right Like you
really don't want to have afight with this person, you know
, and that's why you have anattorney and they can hold their
feet to the flame.
It's so funny becauseestheticians, we want love,
peace, harmony.
We don't want it to be messy,as you would say.
We want everyone to be, youknow, prosperous and to really
(14:10):
do well in their business.
But you can't use my name inthe meantime.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, and you don't want to, because you want
everyone to stand outindividually and to have
something that makes them uniqueand have their name, you know,
mean something that's unique andspecial to them.
So like, at the end of the day,it's like kind of they're only
hurting themselves, you know, ifthey copycat, if they don't go
out on their own to beinnovative and creative.
They're only hurting themselvesbecause they're just going to
(14:34):
blend in even more.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So there is.
We didn't talk about thisbefore, but I think you've
probably heard.
There's a new way to searchtrademarks and it's no longer
that archaic way, right?
They have a whole new systemnow.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, so Joey is actually doing some trainings on
this right now.
He did his first training on itlast Friday, just to kind of
show people how to use this newsearch engine that they're
creating, and then he's doinganother one next Friday.
So I don't know if that'ssomething he'll continue to do.
I think the official change isgetting rolled out, like at the
end of the month, or more partsto the change, I don't know,
(15:11):
because you know I'm on themarketing side so I'm not super
deep in the weeds of the thesearching.
But I do know that he's beenproviding some really good
resources and tools on like howto use that, because it is going
to be different and you'regoing to see a lot more results
than you did before.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Okay good, because before it was like archaic the
way they did it.
It was just like you had to useplus and and and star after
each word.
And you know I mean I took awhole class on it with Joey.
It's thank God he has hisclasses, because he really made
it so much easier and less wasteof my time.
So if you haven't already takenthis class, we're going to link
that to show notes, becauselegit was like the way that I'm
(15:49):
able to do a trademark I coulddo another trademark with by
using those same same skills aswell.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So it's a really really great class to take, yeah
, and he really breaks it downand makes it so simple and I
love that he talks about, likewhat kind of entrepreneur do you
want to be?
Do you want to be the duct tapeentrepreneur that's always kind
of winging it, or do you wantto be like the more legit CEO
and business owner?
And I know that reallyresonated with me because I
always know that when I takemyself seriously on the outside,
(16:16):
I'm going to take myselfseriously on the inside.
If I'm getting my businesslicense, if I'm getting my
trademarks, if I'm getting mycontracts in place, I'm that
much more confident, you know,going out and facing the world.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah for sure.
So you also have quite atreasure chest of materials and
I'm hoping to provide some to myaudience.
But talk about, like, what arethe things that people should
really start in their toolbox asit relates to kind of legal
forms.
(16:46):
Like there's just so much toknow and I feel like it changes
all the time.
It was different when I startedmy business 20 years ago than
it is now.
So what are the kind of topthings that people should have
top of mind?
Besides, don't just go to adomain search to see if your
name is available.
Let's do this the right way.
So let's talk about some of thetools in the toolbox that
someone should have.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And we do have all of this in a free gift for you
guys.
We're going to put that in theshow notes, but it's indielawcom
slash bundle, but essentiallyeverything that you need to get
started in Indie law can helpwith your LLC as well, so
they'll do your trademark andLLC together.
But this special little freegift has six different contract
templates.
Think about like terms of usethat needs to go on your website
(17:29):
or an NDA when you hire yourfirst VA or whatever it might be
.
But all of these differentcontracts so you can customize
them for your own business injust minutes and have everything
you need.
There's also the ultimatebusiness survival guide that
covers seven mistakes that youcan't afford to make.
So let's just go ahead and getit out there Everything that you
(17:51):
don't want to do.
And then, of course, ourtrademark masterclass that you
just mentioned, which is sovaluable and helps you protect
your ideas and kind of avoidthese copycat situations from
the get go, because this personthat named their podcast the
same thing as me.
Seen a training like this, thenthey could have avoided that
(18:11):
altogether, right, right.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah.
I mean, it's about having theknowledge right and just having
these tools in your toolbox andsaying, okay, I already know
this, I know how to do this.
I'm the owner of my company.
I have to have an NDA if I'mgoing to bring people in and
understand my stuff.
I have to have a trademark, Ihave to have a business license,
I have an LLC.
Like there's so much to know,and thank you for giving us that
(18:38):
little bundle, because thatwill be really helpful and we'll
have that in the show notes aswell.
What do you think is the numberone problem that Joey and Indie
Law kind of sees and solves?
Do you think it's trademarks?
Do you think it's just forminga business?
Like, what are peoplestruggling with the most?
(18:58):
And how has Indie Law been ableto kind of shift?
Because he used to just be thetrademark guy and now he's like
so much more like yeah, I meanwe really do just trademarks.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean we have some of these extra business-y type
things because we believe thatthey just make your brand even
stronger, and what we reallywanna focus on is helping people
protect their brand and dothings so that they don't have
to do anything more difficult.
But it's all about prevention,like I said, just being able to
sleep at night because I knowthat I own the names in my
(19:29):
business and I own my businessname, whatever it might be.
But unfortunately, a lot ofpeople don't take trademarks
very seriously because theydon't think that it's urgent.
So, while I would like to saythat the biggest problem we want
to solve is to help people bepreventative and play offense
instead of defense, we do spenda lot of time helping people
(19:51):
untangle problems because theytried to use like Legal Zoom or
Trademark Engine, or they triedto do it themselves, and now
they're getting C-Synthesis andthey didn't do the
classifications right, or nowthey're infringing on somebody
else and they've gotta do a$30,000 rebrand.
We had a client recently thatwas like I want this to happen
(20:12):
to anybody else.
Like I just gotta sayC-Synthesis, I'm having to
rebrand, it's gonna cost mycompany $30,000 and I didn't
know what I needed to know, andI don't want that to happen to
anybody else.
So we're spending a lot of timejust trying to help people
understand how to bepreventative.
Yes, you might pay two or$3,000 upfront, but good gosh,
isn't that better than a $30,000rebrand?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Oh my gosh, yes, and the feeling that you have a
partner in your corner when youget that letter is huge, because
it's really scary to get aletter.
So getting an audit like, okay,we're gonna peel back the
layers of your business and, oh,you're using the wrong name
trouble.
It's never happened to mebecause I have Joey, but it's
(20:59):
happened to people that I know.
And as it relates toasceticians, I think If you know
how to find that name foryourself and Joey can help with
that, but if you know how tofind that name for yourself and
what I mean by that is you'renot looking up a domain name
search, you're not just like, oh, instagram, the handle's
available.
(21:19):
You know it's using it incommerce.
That is when it begins and soyou have to.
You know it might be that youstarted calling yourself the
sugar mama.
You know my name.
You started calling yourselfthe sugar mama and you're a
trainer in, you know sugaringand you refer to yourself as the
sugar mama and maybe youstarted doing that, just, you
(21:40):
know, a few years ago and I'vebeen doing this for 15 years,
you know.
And so that's what I really amconcerned about is people just
not having, you know not havingthat armor and being prepared,
and that's why we're so gratefulfor you.
So okay, miss Singh, thank youso much for all of your
information.
We're going to get you back onto be talking about this messy
(22:02):
success podcast, because I knowI'm a walking example of initial
messy success, so you can getyour sugar mama on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh my gosh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yes, but we're going to talk about that for sure.
And, as always, my friends,thank you so much for tuning
into the sugar show.
It is always just a sweetsuccess to have these gurus on
here that can help us and reallybring us down that journey to
not only loving to sugar butgetting our clients to love it
to sugar in a safe way as well.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So thank, you, miss Liz, and we will see you on the
show again.
Thank you, Shannon, and youguys make sure that you use
Shannon's link and book a callwith us.
We do have completely freebrand protection calls where we
can help you decide iftrademarking is the right move
for you.
So head over to that link andgrab that free call.
We'd love to meet you, yes callthem, use them.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I love it.
Thanks, girl.
Yes, thank you.
Sugar pros and boss babes.
I should have hope you had somuch knowledge that you had to
write down and you had to maybeeven listen to this episode over
again, because Liz is a bundleof information and I'm looking
forward to listening to hermessy success podcast because
(23:09):
Lord knows that it's been ajourney for me and my success,
and I can't hardly wait to learnmore from her because, as you
know, I tell you to always be astudent, so don't forget to go
down into those show notes.
You have the free gift, which isthe bundle link, and then you
also have the ability to get afree legal consult call with
them.
I asked them if they would dothat for us and they did.
(23:32):
They just said let them knowthat Shannon, the sugar mama
O'Brien, sent them, sent you.
So I hope that you can reallybe smart about your business and
making sure that you're legallylegit and in the law is the
place to help you, because theyare amazing humans who really do
genuinely want you to be smartand protected.
(23:53):
I hope that you have afabulously sweet week and I look
forward to chatting with you inthe next episode.
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