September 7, 2025 • 34 mins
Trademark attorney Joey Vitale returns with game-changing news for sugar professionals looking to protect their businesses in an increasingly competitive marketplace. Since our last conversation, the legal landscape has transformed dramatically, creating both new challenges and powerful opportunities for beauty business owners.
The digital revolution has made starting a business easier than ever, but this accessibility has created unprecedented challenges for legitimate entrepreneurs. Joey reveals how AI tools like ChatGPT often provide misleading legal advice, guiding users toward solutions they want to hear rather than legally sound approaches. For sugar professionals navigating trademark waters, this underscores the vital importance of expert guidance.
The most exciting revelation? Google has introduced a blue verified checkmark feature in Gmail that gives trademarked businesses a significant marketing advantage. Only companies with registered trademark logos can access this verification, which helps ensure emails consistently land in primary inboxes rather than spam folders. This represents a seismic shift in how digital platforms are beginning to recognize and reward legitimate businesses through trademark registration.
Joey also shares invaluable insights about strategic naming for beauty businesses. Rather than selecting obvious industry terms (which are likely already trademarked), successful brands are increasingly choosing distinctive, unexpected names that allow for memorable visual identities. This approach not only improves trademark availability but creates more distinctive branding that stands out in a crowded marketplace.
Whether you're just starting your sugaring business or looking to protect an established brand, this episode offers concrete strategies for navigating the complex world of trademarks. Joey outlines multiple pathways to protection, from DIY approaches for those on tight budgets to comprehensive legal services for businesses ready to invest in full protection.
Ready to take your sugar business to the next level? Discover why trademark protection has evolved from a legal precaution into a powerful business advantage that can transform how customers find and interact with your brand.
Joey Vitale's Book: Legally Legit. https://a.co/d/gqwnnyF
Free Call Page: www.indielaw.com/call (If you mention Shannon or the Sugar Show podcast and move forward, they’ll get $300 off any package)
If you’ve connected with or been inspired by this episode in any way, leave us a review and let us know your biggest takeaway - I’d love to hear how you embrace Sugaring For All!! And while you've got your phone out, make sure to follow us on Instagram @Love2Sugar.
If you are interested in our business planner you can find the SugarBoss Planner here --->https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/love2sugar
The link to our Monthly SugarBiz Blueprint: https://www.love2sugar.com/offers/cMhp76LA/checkout
Cheers to your Sweet Success!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Joey is back.
I'm so excited.
I'm excited too.
So much has changed.
Is the same, is so muchexciting stuff.
Since last time we spent timetogether on this podcast I'm
besides the fact that I justthink you're the coolest dude
ever, I also so much hashappened in the world.
(00:31):
You know, last we spoke was inCOVID, on the show, and so much
has changed.
We had the first ever sugarconference, which I'm so excited
about, that our industry puttogether and it was all sugar
companies and sugar pros andpeople who wanted to be sugars
which I know is not your world,but I kind of wish it was though
.
I know right.
Well, you can come get sugar,joey Great, or send your wife in
(00:51):
, anyway.
So we so what?
My presentation at SugarCon wasabout the future of sugaring,
and we I have a sugar bot now.
It's so cute Little tiny sugarbot.
And.
And so we were talking about AIand as it relates to the future
of sugaring.
Right, because there's lots ofnew innovations in our products,
but we have to really be savvyabout the future of our
(01:15):
businesses, and so we talkedabout AI.
We just talked in general aboutprompts and how they can help
businesses, but let's dive alittle bit deeper as it relates
to the legal piece, and I mean,we weren't even talking about AI
last time I talked to you.
So get us up to speed on AI asit relates to our businesses and
what we have to be looking outfor.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yes, I will say that I have so many things that I
love about AI.
I am definitely a power user inour ChatGPT account and it's
interesting because who knowswhat AI is going to look like 10
years from now, 12 months fromnow, next week, exactly.
(01:56):
But I do want to report on thecurrent state of AI as it is to
legal, because I, you know, Imyself am going to ChatGPT and
asking questions, saying, okay,you're a board of advisors,
you're my PR expert, you're myXYZ, what do you recommend that
I do?
Yeah, and one thing that verymuch still appears to be the
(02:20):
case is that chat GPT,specifically in AI in general,
really tries to give you theanswer that you're wanting to
hear, and so a lot of times,with the legal side, there's
this sense of like hey, I wantto do this, like, is it allowed?
And when you ask questions inthat way, then Chad GPT tends to
(02:41):
make up loopholes.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
You're so smart sugar mama.
Yes, you absolutely can.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, well, and I think there's also so much bad
information online about the lawand specifically about
trademarks, that when AI isscraping all of that data,
they're not looking just to whatattorneys have said on the
topic, sure, looking just towhat attorneys have said on the
topic, sure.
And as we've talked aboutShannon, in so many ways,
(03:13):
trademark law goes againstcommon sense and against what
you think would be the case, andso sometimes, if you're even
kind of getting your terminologyor vocabulary wrong when you
ask it stuff, it might tell yousomething that is actually okay.
I see that, all that being said, that was one of the huge
reasons why I wrote the bookthat I wrote legally legit.
(03:34):
So this is a oh man, uh, 200ish page book that, uh, in a lot
of, is like, if you liked thepodcast episode that Shannon and
I did, this is number onepodcast, Joey.
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
One sugar show.
Apparently, sugar pros needlegal advice.
They want to be legal strong intheir business, which is why
we're bringing you back.
So kudos to you for makingnumber one in the sugar show
podcast and let's do it again.
Let's be honored.
Yes, yeah, let.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And let's do it again .
So honored, yes, yeah, let'ssee if we can beat it.
So this book is a really greatcompliment to that podcast
episode.
This book covers everythingfrom LLC formation contracts to
trademarks.
Just by getting the book, youget a free copy of my contract
templates.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Oh so really easy.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
no brainer option yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
But we're going to link to that in the show notes
that everyone has access to it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Awesome, great.
So question about that's that'sthe big thing that we're
looking at is like we knowpeople are using it, we know
business owners are using it andyou still have to be very
careful and make sure thatyou're getting a second opinion.
We actually just recently addedlanguage into our client
(04:54):
contracts or engagement lettersthat say hey, if you are using
this stuff AI, chat, gpt pleasesend us anything that you're any
responses that you're getting,that that you're taking action
on um, so that we can can helprecommend.
You know what's worth followingand what's not worth following.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Because I imagine for some folks it's two o'clock in
the morning.
They're worried about what theycan do.
You know they need to sleep atnight, like they're going to
just jump on chat real fast andbe like is this possible?
You know, is this trademarkedwhich is fine for like that,
that kind of top surface levelcuriosity?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
A lot of people are just curious about an you know
question and they don't want topay a lawyer $200 to tell them
yes or no initially.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think audience you need to really hear.
That's fine for the initialcuriosity, but not for the
action and the reaction and thefacts.
So it's really really critical.
Joey, I'm sure you're seeingall the time that people are
trying to like kind of diagnosethemselves before they call you.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Absolutely, and I love that you talk about that in
terms of diagnosing themselvesbefore they come to us.
Because, shannon, you and Ihave talked before about that
free trademark database thatexists online.
I think since we talked,they've had a major update to
that online tool and so in someways, it's now easier to use
(06:20):
that platform to search for whattrademarks are available and
what aren't that platform tosearch for what trademarks are
available and what aren't.
But because it's gotten so goodat finding potentially similar
marks, it can also be veryconfusing to look at.
Before the database got anupdate, if I searched for Indie
Law, only my trademarks wouldcome up.
(06:42):
Now, if I run a search for Indylaw, like thousands of results
pop up that are all kind ofsimilar but they don't exactly
say Indy law, and so it'sbecoming harder to know, okay,
what's too similar and what'snot.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because
I think a lot of people think,oh, let's take my name sugar
mama, it's trademarked.
You helped me do that, thankyou.
And there's a lot of peoplethat say, oh well, I spell it
different.
Oh well, I put, you know, thein front of it, or apostrophe S,
or it's Sugar Mama body care orsomething you know, and let's
(07:23):
talk a little bit about that assomeone's kind of doing their
initial research.
We talked about this in thefirst podcast, but that was
quite a while ago.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
This is one of the number one things that I want to
communicate with businessowners, so I'm glad you bring it
up.
Yeah, you're right and I get it.
Business owners and people ingeneral, we've gotten used to
what I call domain name thinking.
Yeah, where, if the domain nameis taken, we make one of those
slight tweaks that you talkedabout an S at the end, a the at
the beginning, a descriptivephrase at the end of it.
(07:48):
That might be enough to get you, but it's not seen as
distinctive enough for thetrademark office to give you the
trademark.
And there are tons of examples.
It's actually the most commonreason for an application to get
refused is because it's seen astoo similar, and the question
(08:16):
is not are these marks it's?
Could a customer that is reallyfamiliar with one of the brands
see the other one and thinkthat there might be a common
source or relationship betweenthe two?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about kind of timing
of a trademark, because I thinksome people feel as though they
got in and got the trademarkright but someone another
company might've had it for thename for 30 years in business
Like.
Talk to me a little bit aboutlike yes.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
It's so.
It's so backwards logisticallyin so many ways, but the way
that it works is, technicallyspeaking, the first brand to
claim that business name, thatlogo, that slogan owns the
trademark, regardless of whofiled first or who got it
(09:02):
registered first.
But when you get your trademarkregistered, it gives you really
strong evidence of ownershipand so, practically speaking,
the sooner you get aregistration for your trademark,
the more easily you can playdefense if your branding rights
ever get called into question.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, for sure.
And how easy is it?
Well, it's easy, as a relativeterm, right.
How easy is it to, like, fightfor your trademark once you've
spent all that time and moneygetting it and you've really
cultivated your brand, and thensomeone comes on the scene with
a similar name and is just usingit without doing their due
(09:45):
diligence?
You know, like, is it becominga little bit easier to stand up
for yourself, you know, and say,oh no, this is my trademark.
Um, how are you seeing anychanges in that?
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's significantly easier to defend yourself when
you have those registrations inplace.
Even then they don't enforcethemselves.
And so we are always workingwith businesses small brands,
big companies to get clear withthem.
Okay, if you put your ego tothe side, what is the measurable
(10:18):
cost and impact of this copycatexisting?
Because it's one thing for usto send cease and desist letters
usually if they are anaccidental infringer, a good
person, they'll.
They'll see that and they willapologize profusely and change
their name.
But if they're a bad actor, ifthey're an intentional copycat,
(10:38):
if they just say screw you, thenyou do have to take additional
legal steps.
That cost time and money andenergy.
And so before I just take myclient's money to do those
enforcement steps, I make surethat there is a good business
reason for us doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, you know, I think people this starts to feel
really overwhelming.
But this is doing businessfolks and a lot of sugar pros
are solos.
They just, you know, maybe havestarted their own treatment
room, like the one I'm sittingin, and they this is their only
space and they figure out nobodywill notice.
And then they work hard and doall this branding and they
(11:22):
realize, oh my gosh, I neverchecked to see if someone
trademarked this sweet name,this sugary name.
And Joey and I are here to tellyou please look it up, please
work with someone to make surethat your name is protected,
(11:42):
because that's so much investingand your town might know you as
that name and you have tochange it and that would really
be a bummer for your business.
So we shouted at the rooftopsthis is why you need to have a
trademark right.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yes, yes, and there are, as of this year, new
reasons why it's more importantthan ever to get trademarked and
how it really gives yourbusiness a distinctive advantage
in the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Okay, you wouldn't tell me what that was before we
push record.
You said I want you to wait andI want to see your reaction.
So, Joey, the question is whatis changed and what is the
future as it relates totrademarks that we have not
heard from you yet and that youhave discovered?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So I'll just set the context here.
Okay, Earlier this month I wentto a business coaching
conference.
Sharon and I both love JamesWedmore.
I went to one of his events.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Shout out to James.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
We love James.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Love him.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And there was an entire session dedicated to a
problem that a lot of businessowners are having, which is you
sending emails to your customersor your audience and it landing
in their spam.
Okay and low open rates, lowclick rates, and it's getting
harder than ever for you to sendemails to people knowing that
(13:08):
it's going to end up in liketheir primary inbox.
What if I told you that gettingtrademarks would allow you to
always show up in your customers, in your audience primary inbox
?
It's happening Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Hold on, let me wrap my brain around that.
So I have a trademark on thesugar mama.
So if I send out emails now, ifI have what, what does it take?
What does it take for me to?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
right, so here's how this works.
Okay, gmail now has a blueverified check mark feature and
if you look closely in your owninbox, you might even see now
that certain big companies havethis blue mark next to it,
similar to facebook andinstagram and everything else
(13:59):
about getting that verifiedcheck.
But google has done somethingdifferent and they've said
inside google if you want thisverified mark, the only way to
get it is to trademark your logo.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So now, if you have your not just business name but
business logo trademarked andregistered, then it allows you
to get certain certificatesonline showing that you're a
special type of verifiedbusiness.
And once you set this upproperly, then not only you, but
(14:41):
everyone on your like emailworkspace team all of the emails
that you get sent out will havethat blue verified mark and
it'll it'll force your emails togo to their principal primary
inbox that's huge.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean, it's brilliant really.
Thank you.
Technology right like before.
It was like why get a trademark?
Who cares?
It has a little R.
You can always put TM and fakeit, Like you know, like.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yes, I love that I'm talking to a pro, but, shannon,
why I love this so much iseveryone and their great grandma
is starting a business rightnow and there's such saturation
in the space that platforms andvendors like Google and Facebook
are trying to figure out howcan we give preferential
(15:32):
treatment to the more legitimatebrands that are out there and
they're looking to trademarks tosay prove your legitimacy
Awesome.
To say, prove your legitimacy,that's awesome.
So it's no longer about highfollower counts or who's an
influencer or who knows theright person in Facebook to rub
shoulders with for them to giveyou the badge.
It's no, we're going to look totrademark registrations for
(15:57):
proof of you not being a spambusiness.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That's awesome.
Thank you to those of us who'vebeen doing it by the book this
whole time.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I know right.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
It pays to be a good person who follows the rules.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yes, but not only that.
Now it's such a great marketingadvantage.
I mean, yes, it takes money andtime to get your logo
trademarked, to go through thesedifferent certification
processes, to get everythinguploaded with Gmail and, like
your website, dns settings, butif this now gives you a hundred
(16:34):
percent rate of your emailshitting people's inbox, it's so
worth it.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Game changer Cause how many, I mean?
In the past, we're like how dowe get these rates up, how do we
get it so our stuff doesn't goto spam?
You know, you try every littletrick under the sun and then
everybody else tries the sametricks and then they get exactly
junk also.
So this is huge and, you know,I think it really helps people
(17:00):
to understand, like, theimportance of it and that this
is really a business.
This is part of the cost ofdoing business.
It isn't just throw a sign infront of your store and you can
be whoever you want.
You know this is hey, there aresteps that you have to take in
business and now it's beingrecognized.
Like that is so key, yes, sokey.
(17:21):
Like that is so key, yes, sokey.
I love this.
So what else?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
What else?
Tell me what else.
Well, that was the number onething that I wanted to share
it's.
I just think that that is areally big sign of a new wave
that's going to happen with youknow, we talked about AI earlier
.
It's not just everybody isstarting businesses.
It's like they're being mindfulof AI companies popping up and
(17:49):
a real flood of people's inboxesand launch a business, and we
have all of these tools thatdidn't exist five or 10 years
ago that make it easier forpeople to enter into the market
space.
But taking these steps oflegitimacy whether it's
(18:11):
trademarks or other things arethings that not every business
owner is willing to do, and soit allows you to more easily get
to that next stage yeah, Icould literally talk about this
for hours.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I do have a question that I haven't asked you yet and
it's not on our, wasn't on ourplanned list.
I was at um a party the othernight and a friend of mine
writes music and created abanging song.
That is amazing.
All ai, it's AI, likeeverything's AI.
And then I was thinking aboutmy own course courses, my own
(18:52):
trainings, and literally anyonecan just copy my voice and copy
my face and they can, you know,somehow, magically and
mystically, shannon will be, youknow, teaching some sugar class
she never, ever, taught before.
Do trademarks help with that?
(19:12):
I mean, gosh, like, that's justlike this abyss of like.
Who do you go after?
Right, I guess you have to tryto figure out.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, yeah, so that's less of a trademark issue than
potentially a copyright issue.
Yeah, so that's less of atrademark issue than potentially
a copyright issue.
I do think that it's going tobe a while before courts rule on
specific issues of what'sallowed and what's not, but it's
interesting to look atplatforms and vendors and see
the way that they are handlingAI stuff.
(19:41):
And so, for example, if you goto Amazon their like self
publishing tool to publish abook, it'll ask you you know,
was this book written completelywithout AI?
Was it just completely writtenwith AI?
Or was it written with SC, withai's help, but like, improved
(20:04):
and revised with the human?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
okay good you know, because so many people like you
know.
Oh, you wrote legally legit.
Is it chat gpt?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I know, I know, um.
I will say, though, that, uh,and and you might already know
this, shannon, but there, thereis a sneaky setting inside of
chat gpt where, if you don'tknow to turn it off, it will um
use that to help others.
So, um, indie law as well as,like you know, any type of
(20:44):
content planning that I'm doingI want to make sure that I'm not
just giving others in my spacegreat stuff that chat GPT will
give them in the future, so Imake sure that I turn off that
setting, so that chat GPT as awhole isn't like learning from
what I give it.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
So incredible, just what we're seeing.
Are you seeing I think you'regoing to see a flood now that
we're back on the air with youbut are you seeing beauty people
coming into your space, likethere was a push when we first
started, right, because wetalked about it a lot and are
you seeing beauty people?
(21:22):
And, if not, like, what's the,what's the message to the beauty
world if they're not reallytrademarking their businesses,
right?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Like yeah, the trend that I'm seeing, that I'm
excited about, is the beautyindustry that I've seen is
starting to do what otherindustries are doing that I'm
seeing, which is there are moreand more like really weird names
that are popping up.
(21:50):
Shannon, I can't remember if Igave you this example in the
past when we talked, but, like,if you go to a restaurant or a
microbrewery and you look attheir different beer options on
the menu, they have the weirdestnames, right, and that's not
just them being creativecompanies, it's they legally
have to come up with suchoutside-of-the-box names so that
(22:13):
they don't get hit with a ceaseand desist letter with any of
the names of the beers.
And I think we're starting tosee people in the beauty
industry wake up to that realityas well and very intentionally
say I'm going to come up with aname that is really hard for
anyone else just to think of inthe space yeah, because sweet
(22:34):
taken, sugar taken right mamataken, like you know all these
names purple kangaroo probablynot taken right, but quiznically
sweet or something.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
you know like nobody knows the word quiznically is.
You know, I just made it up,but you know, like you almost
have to really be thinking thatway so that you can yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, and what we're seeing that is really exciting
is sure, there are people thatjust come up with like, made up
names, and there's a wholemarketing difficulty that you
then have because, like, no onecan spell it correctly, no one
knows what it means.
But we're, we're starting toincreasingly, uh, work with very
cool brands, and I want to givean example so I'm not calling
(23:19):
anyone out, but like what onlyyou just like have always been
resonating with like okay, andthen heat, or there's a a
certain type of national parkthat you love, or your spirit
(23:41):
animal is a koala or something.
Koala sugar and company.
But they come up with some wordthat has that also kind of
makes sense as a sugaring space,and then their, their whole
(24:03):
brand, has that visual of koalasor bears or whatever, and so
it's um, I mean we're.
We recently helped a company Iwon't give the the industry but
they picked Tortoise as theirbrand name, and even though the
name Tortoise has nothing to dowith the product that they sell,
(24:25):
it allows them to really leaninto this visual in a cool way,
and so they're the only turtlethemed business in their space.
Okay, fair enough um, and eventhough that might not make a um
a lot of like cute or cleversense, as you're building up
(24:46):
your marketing um, there aretons of opportunities for you to
lean into that and and knowthat over time, when people
think of that flavor, of a brand, they're going to think of you.
And I mean, what are thechances that someone else is
going to randomly come up withthat, unless they're
(25:08):
intentionally trying to copy you, right?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I love that.
So we need to start thinkingout of the box and not just
sweet names and sugary names,but something you know palm tree
, tree sugaring or I don't knowwell.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I mean, I'm thinking like there could be like a okay
sugar sweet.
Could there be like a candy ora chocolate sugar, but you lean
into other things that are sweet.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Right, yeah, and it'll be easier to find your
trademark, it'll be easier toprotect yourself, it'll be
easier to theme it, yeah, oreven like salty, like our name
is salty and we're a sugaringcompany, right, like there are.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
There are, I think there are just cool, like
memorable things that aredistinct but still, and and
that's where there's still aninfinite number of trademarks
available yeah, yeah so, joey,help the audience to understand.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
so they've.
They've decided on'll just useKoala, Koala sugaring company,
just because that's the term youused.
I don't even know if there isone, Cool.
And they decide okay, I reallywant to open my own little sugar
room.
You know, I'm, I'm just a momand pop little, just me.
How important is it for thatperson to get a trademark early
(26:37):
and now?
And kind of what are, like, thebroad steps to make that happen
?
Like, how can you be of help tothem?
Not like the.
You know you teach a courseabout this, but you know what
are the kind of broad thingsthat they should be doing from?
I just laid awake at night andrealized I want it to be Koala
Sugar and Company, and then nowwhat?
What's the next step for them?
(26:58):
I want it to be koala sugaringcompany, and then now what?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
What's the next step for them?
It's a good question, shannonand I say this with all of the
love and empathy that I canmuster For it to stay small and
tiny, and just you, then there'sprobably a lot to do, because,
(27:20):
at the end of the day, if stuffgets thrown at you, if you
receive a Like, there's not areal large cost to it, and so I
want you to aim higher and builda business and a set of assets
that are actually at risk ofprotection.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Hail that.
I mean, you never know.
That was kind of where I wasleading you to.
You know, at the end of the day, like I was just one little
person, I was the sugar mama inupstairs on Sutter street in
Folsom, like I was the mom oftwo small children.
I didn't know it would be thiswhole big thing, like I had no
idea I'd be on stage speakingand doing all that, right, and
(28:02):
if I didn't protect myself thenthen you know I it's.
I've been doing this for 16years, right, that's a lot of
ground to cover.
So even start now.
Dreamer of koala sugaringcompany.
You know, yeah, yes, you neverknow.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And I would say start now, regardless of what that
start now means.
If you're understandably on abudget, totally fine.
You do not have to work with alaw firm.
As Shannon knows, we have a DIYtrademark course.
My book has lots ofstep-by-step instructions on
what you can do if you want todo it on your own, but don't
(28:46):
think that it has to be soexpensive that you can't move
forward with it.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, and take the steps, go ahead I mean you
definitely I will say I don'twant them to skip the step of at
least making sure that no otherkoala sugaring exists.
At least look, right, like.
At least start with that, Thenyou can at least sleep at night
and go okay, I'm not picking.
Somebody else had dreams ofkoala sugaring company, right,
yes.
So at least start with checkingout to see if it does have a
(29:13):
trademark already.
Then you're not pickingyourself and go, okay, this
thing's been around for 10 yearsbefore me Like duh.
Why didn't I look?
You know you've got to at leaststart with that.
And then you know, save yourmoney If you can't afford you
know the, the filing fees andsuch just save your money each
month and get to a place whereyou're getting bigger and it's
(29:35):
really smart to to lock downthat name and then, okay, so
they're getting a little bitbigger, they can afford a
trademark.
What's kind of the big picturething they do?
Do they just start searching ordo they contact you?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So there's a DI, a work with an expert route and a
middle cheap route that youprobably don't want to use.
So I do want to be transparentthat there are options like
LegalZoom out there.
We just transparently fix a lotof their messes.
(30:14):
There are reasons why thosetypes of services are so cheap
and it's because you get whatyou pay for.
So I would much rather seebusiness owners.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
If you're going to pay a company that just forms,
that fills out a form for you,then just fill out the form
yourself but I did, I did, I didyour course and I did it myself
, and then I got some assistancefrom you just to make sure I
was doing it right.
And that was easy, yeah, anddone the right way.
So okay, so you want them tocheck in, do the DIY course?
(30:53):
Just got to see what you know,if they can do it themselves,
and if there's something that'sa little you know, more tricky,
then can they call your company,like how does that work?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You can always reach out to us after you've purchased
the course.
If you purchased the course andwe will be happy to credit what
you paid for the course to ourone-to-one packages.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, and you know what.
It's so worth just doing it theright way the first time.
Y'all it is so worth it, andthen you have that peace of mind
, you know.
I mean no one has contacted meand said you know you must cease
and desist, because they knowthat I'm actually the one with
the trademark.
So I can sleep at night knowingthat I've done the right thing,
you know, by my business um,which is really great, and now
(31:38):
I've even.
I'm even more excited that Idid it the right way, because
now I will be first in the inbox.
I will be, I will.
Isn't that awesome?
It's brilliant.
I don't know if you know, toldthe powers that be.
You should do it be a trademark, but clearly Right.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
No, I I'm.
I'm just as a, not just atrademark attorney, but as like
a brand protection strategist.
It's very cool for me to seecompanies like Google looking to
trademarks to gauge thelegitimacy of the brands that
(32:16):
are working with those platforms.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, I love it.
Joey, your book is going to bein the show notes.
All the ways to get in touchwith Joey are going to be in the
show notes.
Leave comments.
Y'all Like this is how we dothis.
We could even get on anInstagram live, joey and I
together, right Like we didn'thave that back in the day,
really like they do now, youknow.
And so ask the questions.
(32:40):
Ask the questions in ourcommunity, our sugar tribe
community.
Ask these questions and Joeycan jump in and answer them.
And because we want to makesure that you are the smartest,
sweetest sugar pros that youpossibly can be, and our job is
to make sure that you learn theright way so that you can
protect yourself not only withstrong skills in sugaring, but
(33:02):
also with legal protections andbeing strong in your business as
well.
So, joey, as always, it is sofun to hang out with you.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Same.
Oh, I'm so glad we found thetime, Shannon.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I know, I know and again ask Joey any questions
that you like.
We will make sure that they getanswered and hopefully we will
have maybe another updatepodcast in the relatively near
future.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
At this rate.
Probably.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, awesome.
Just send them back and sharewith us the cool stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Thanks, Shannon.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Thanks, Joe.
Joey is back.
I'm so excited.
I'm excited too.
So much has changed.
Is the same, is so muchexciting stuff.
Since last time we spent timetogether on this podcast I'm
besides the fact that I justthink you're the coolest dude
ever, I also so much hashappened in the world.
(00:31):
You know, last we spoke was inCOVID, on the show, and so much
has changed.
We had the first ever sugarconference, which I'm so excited
about, that our industry puttogether and it was all sugar
companies and sugar pros andpeople who wanted to be sugars
which I know is not your world,but I kind of wish it was though
.
I know right.
Well, you can come get sugar,joey Great, or send your wife in
(00:51):
, anyway.
So we so what?
My presentation at SugarCon wasabout the future of sugaring,
and we I have a sugar bot now.
It's so cute Little tiny sugarbot.
And.
And so we were talking about AIand as it relates to the future
of sugaring.
Right, because there's lots ofnew innovations in our products,
but we have to really be savvyabout the future of our
(01:15):
businesses, and so we talkedabout AI.
We just talked in general aboutprompts and how they can help
businesses, but let's dive alittle bit deeper as it relates
to the legal piece, and I mean,we weren't even talking about AI
last time I talked to you.
So get us up to speed on AI asit relates to our businesses and
what we have to be looking outfor.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yes, I will say that I have so many things that I
love about AI.
I am definitely a power user inour ChatGPT account and it's
interesting because who knowswhat AI is going to look like 10
years from now, 12 months fromnow, next week, exactly.
(01:56):
But I do want to report on thecurrent state of AI as it is to
legal, because I, you know, Imyself am going to ChatGPT and
asking questions, saying, okay,you're a board of advisors,
you're my PR expert, you're myXYZ, what do you recommend that
I do?
Yeah, and one thing that verymuch still appears to be the
(02:20):
case is that chat GPT,specifically in AI in general,
really tries to give you theanswer that you're wanting to
hear, and so a lot of times,with the legal side, there's
this sense of like hey, I wantto do this, like, is it allowed?
And when you ask questions inthat way, then Chad GPT tends to
(02:41):
make up loopholes.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
You're so smart sugar mama.
Yes, you absolutely can.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, well, and I think there's also so much bad
information online about the lawand specifically about
trademarks, that when AI isscraping all of that data,
they're not looking just to whatattorneys have said on the
topic, sure, looking just towhat attorneys have said on the
topic, sure.
And as we've talked aboutShannon, in so many ways,
(03:13):
trademark law goes againstcommon sense and against what
you think would be the case, andso sometimes, if you're even
kind of getting your terminologyor vocabulary wrong when you
ask it stuff, it might tell yousomething that is actually okay.
I see that, all that being said, that was one of the huge
reasons why I wrote the bookthat I wrote legally legit.
(03:34):
So this is a oh man, uh, 200ish page book that, uh, in a lot
of, is like, if you liked thepodcast episode that Shannon and
I did, this is number onepodcast, Joey.
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
One sugar show.
Apparently, sugar pros needlegal advice.
They want to be legal strong intheir business, which is why
we're bringing you back.
So kudos to you for makingnumber one in the sugar show
podcast and let's do it again.
Let's be honored.
Yes, yeah, let.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And let's do it again .
So honored, yes, yeah, let'ssee if we can beat it.
So this book is a really greatcompliment to that podcast
episode.
This book covers everythingfrom LLC formation contracts to
trademarks.
Just by getting the book, youget a free copy of my contract
templates.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Oh so really easy.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
no brainer option yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
But we're going to link to that in the show notes
that everyone has access to it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Awesome, great.
So question about that's that'sthe big thing that we're
looking at is like we knowpeople are using it, we know
business owners are using it andyou still have to be very
careful and make sure thatyou're getting a second opinion.
We actually just recently addedlanguage into our client
(04:54):
contracts or engagement lettersthat say hey, if you are using
this stuff AI, chat, gpt pleasesend us anything that you're any
responses that you're getting,that that you're taking action
on um, so that we can can helprecommend.
You know what's worth followingand what's not worth following.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Because I imagine for some folks it's two o'clock in
the morning.
They're worried about what theycan do.
You know they need to sleep atnight, like they're going to
just jump on chat real fast andbe like is this possible?
You know, is this trademarkedwhich is fine for like that,
that kind of top surface levelcuriosity?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
A lot of people are just curious about an you know
question and they don't want topay a lawyer $200 to tell them
yes or no initially.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think audience you need to really hear.
That's fine for the initialcuriosity, but not for the
action and the reaction and thefacts.
So it's really really critical.
Joey, I'm sure you're seeingall the time that people are
trying to like kind of diagnosethemselves before they call you.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Absolutely, and I love that you talk about that in
terms of diagnosing themselvesbefore they come to us.
Because, shannon, you and Ihave talked before about that
free trademark database thatexists online.
I think since we talked,they've had a major update to
that online tool and so in someways, it's now easier to use
(06:20):
that platform to search for whattrademarks are available and
what aren't that platform tosearch for what trademarks are
available and what aren't.
But because it's gotten so goodat finding potentially similar
marks, it can also be veryconfusing to look at.
Before the database got anupdate, if I searched for Indie
Law, only my trademarks wouldcome up.
(06:42):
Now, if I run a search for Indylaw, like thousands of results
pop up that are all kind ofsimilar but they don't exactly
say Indy law, and so it'sbecoming harder to know, okay,
what's too similar and what'snot.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because
I think a lot of people think,oh, let's take my name sugar
mama, it's trademarked.
You helped me do that, thankyou.
And there's a lot of peoplethat say, oh well, I spell it
different.
Oh well, I put, you know, thein front of it, or apostrophe S,
or it's Sugar Mama body care orsomething you know, and let's
(07:23):
talk a little bit about that assomeone's kind of doing their
initial research.
We talked about this in thefirst podcast, but that was
quite a while ago.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
This is one of the number one things that I want to
communicate with businessowners, so I'm glad you bring it
up.
Yeah, you're right and I get it.
Business owners and people ingeneral, we've gotten used to
what I call domain name thinking.
Yeah, where, if the domain nameis taken, we make one of those
slight tweaks that you talkedabout an S at the end, a the at
the beginning, a descriptivephrase at the end of it.
(07:48):
That might be enough to get you, but it's not seen as
distinctive enough for thetrademark office to give you the
trademark.
And there are tons of examples.
It's actually the most commonreason for an application to get
refused is because it's seen astoo similar, and the question
(08:16):
is not are these marks it's?
Could a customer that is reallyfamiliar with one of the brands
see the other one and thinkthat there might be a common
source or relationship betweenthe two?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about kind of timing
of a trademark, because I thinksome people feel as though they
got in and got the trademarkright but someone another
company might've had it for thename for 30 years in business
Like.
Talk to me a little bit aboutlike yes.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
It's so.
It's so backwards logisticallyin so many ways, but the way
that it works is, technicallyspeaking, the first brand to
claim that business name, thatlogo, that slogan owns the
trademark, regardless of whofiled first or who got it
(09:02):
registered first.
But when you get your trademarkregistered, it gives you really
strong evidence of ownershipand so, practically speaking,
the sooner you get aregistration for your trademark,
the more easily you can playdefense if your branding rights
ever get called into question.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, for sure.
And how easy is it?
Well, it's easy, as a relativeterm, right.
How easy is it to, like, fightfor your trademark once you've
spent all that time and moneygetting it and you've really
cultivated your brand, and thensomeone comes on the scene with
a similar name and is just usingit without doing their due
(09:45):
diligence?
You know, like, is it becominga little bit easier to stand up
for yourself, you know, and say,oh no, this is my trademark.
Um, how are you seeing anychanges in that?
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's significantly easier to defend yourself when
you have those registrations inplace.
Even then they don't enforcethemselves.
And so we are always workingwith businesses small brands,
big companies to get clear withthem.
Okay, if you put your ego tothe side, what is the measurable
(10:18):
cost and impact of this copycatexisting?
Because it's one thing for usto send cease and desist letters
usually if they are anaccidental infringer, a good
person, they'll.
They'll see that and they willapologize profusely and change
their name.
But if they're a bad actor, ifthey're an intentional copycat,
(10:38):
if they just say screw you, thenyou do have to take additional
legal steps.
That cost time and money andenergy.
And so before I just take myclient's money to do those
enforcement steps, I make surethat there is a good business
reason for us doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, you know, I think people this starts to feel
really overwhelming.
But this is doing businessfolks and a lot of sugar pros
are solos.
They just, you know, maybe havestarted their own treatment
room, like the one I'm sittingin, and they this is their only
space and they figure out nobodywill notice.
And then they work hard and doall this branding and they
(11:22):
realize, oh my gosh, I neverchecked to see if someone
trademarked this sweet name,this sugary name.
And Joey and I are here to tellyou please look it up, please
work with someone to make surethat your name is protected,
(11:42):
because that's so much investingand your town might know you as
that name and you have tochange it and that would really
be a bummer for your business.
So we shouted at the rooftopsthis is why you need to have a
trademark right.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yes, yes, and there are, as of this year, new
reasons why it's more importantthan ever to get trademarked and
how it really gives yourbusiness a distinctive advantage
in the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Okay, you wouldn't tell me what that was before we
push record.
You said I want you to wait andI want to see your reaction.
So, Joey, the question is whatis changed and what is the
future as it relates totrademarks that we have not
heard from you yet and that youhave discovered?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So I'll just set the context here.
Okay, Earlier this month I wentto a business coaching
conference.
Sharon and I both love JamesWedmore.
I went to one of his events.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Shout out to James.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
We love James.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Love him.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And there was an entire session dedicated to a
problem that a lot of businessowners are having, which is you
sending emails to your customersor your audience and it landing
in their spam.
Okay and low open rates, lowclick rates, and it's getting
harder than ever for you to sendemails to people knowing that
(13:08):
it's going to end up in liketheir primary inbox.
What if I told you that gettingtrademarks would allow you to
always show up in your customers, in your audience primary inbox
?
It's happening Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Hold on, let me wrap my brain around that.
So I have a trademark on thesugar mama.
So if I send out emails now, ifI have what, what does it take?
What does it take for me to?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
right, so here's how this works.
Okay, gmail now has a blueverified check mark feature and
if you look closely in your owninbox, you might even see now
that certain big companies havethis blue mark next to it,
similar to facebook andinstagram and everything else
(13:59):
about getting that verifiedcheck.
But google has done somethingdifferent and they've said
inside google if you want thisverified mark, the only way to
get it is to trademark your logo.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So now, if you have your not just business name but
business logo trademarked andregistered, then it allows you
to get certain certificatesonline showing that you're a
special type of verifiedbusiness.
And once you set this upproperly, then not only you, but
(14:41):
everyone on your like emailworkspace team all of the emails
that you get sent out will havethat blue verified mark and
it'll it'll force your emails togo to their principal primary
inbox that's huge.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean, it's brilliant really.
Thank you.
Technology right like before.
It was like why get a trademark?
Who cares?
It has a little R.
You can always put TM and fakeit, Like you know, like.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yes, I love that I'm talking to a pro, but, shannon,
why I love this so much iseveryone and their great grandma
is starting a business rightnow and there's such saturation
in the space that platforms andvendors like Google and Facebook
are trying to figure out howcan we give preferential
(15:32):
treatment to the more legitimatebrands that are out there and
they're looking to trademarks tosay prove your legitimacy
Awesome.
To say, prove your legitimacy,that's awesome.
So it's no longer about highfollower counts or who's an
influencer or who knows theright person in Facebook to rub
shoulders with for them to giveyou the badge.
It's no, we're going to look totrademark registrations for
(15:57):
proof of you not being a spambusiness.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That's awesome.
Thank you to those of us who'vebeen doing it by the book this
whole time.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I know right.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
It pays to be a good person who follows the rules.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yes, but not only that.
Now it's such a great marketingadvantage.
I mean, yes, it takes money andtime to get your logo
trademarked, to go through thesedifferent certification
processes, to get everythinguploaded with Gmail and, like
your website, dns settings, butif this now gives you a hundred
(16:34):
percent rate of your emailshitting people's inbox, it's so
worth it.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Game changer Cause how many, I mean?
In the past, we're like how dowe get these rates up, how do we
get it so our stuff doesn't goto spam?
You know, you try every littletrick under the sun and then
everybody else tries the sametricks and then they get exactly
junk also.
So this is huge and, you know,I think it really helps people
(17:00):
to understand, like, theimportance of it and that this
is really a business.
This is part of the cost ofdoing business.
It isn't just throw a sign infront of your store and you can
be whoever you want.
You know this is hey, there aresteps that you have to take in
business and now it's beingrecognized.
Like that is so key, yes, sokey.
(17:21):
Like that is so key, yes, sokey.
I love this.
So what else?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
What else?
Tell me what else.
Well, that was the number onething that I wanted to share
it's.
I just think that that is areally big sign of a new wave
that's going to happen with youknow, we talked about AI earlier
.
It's not just everybody isstarting businesses.
It's like they're being mindfulof AI companies popping up and
(17:49):
a real flood of people's inboxesand launch a business, and we
have all of these tools thatdidn't exist five or 10 years
ago that make it easier forpeople to enter into the market
space.
But taking these steps oflegitimacy whether it's
(18:11):
trademarks or other things arethings that not every business
owner is willing to do, and soit allows you to more easily get
to that next stage yeah, Icould literally talk about this
for hours.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I do have a question that I haven't asked you yet and
it's not on our, wasn't on ourplanned list.
I was at um a party the othernight and a friend of mine
writes music and created abanging song.
That is amazing.
All ai, it's AI, likeeverything's AI.
And then I was thinking aboutmy own course courses, my own
(18:52):
trainings, and literally anyonecan just copy my voice and copy
my face and they can, you know,somehow, magically and
mystically, shannon will be, youknow, teaching some sugar class
she never, ever, taught before.
Do trademarks help with that?
(19:12):
I mean, gosh, like, that's justlike this abyss of like.
Who do you go after?
Right, I guess you have to tryto figure out.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, yeah, so that's less of a trademark issue than
potentially a copyright issue.
Yeah, so that's less of atrademark issue than potentially
a copyright issue.
I do think that it's going tobe a while before courts rule on
specific issues of what'sallowed and what's not, but it's
interesting to look atplatforms and vendors and see
the way that they are handlingAI stuff.
(19:41):
And so, for example, if you goto Amazon their like self
publishing tool to publish abook, it'll ask you you know,
was this book written completelywithout AI?
Was it just completely writtenwith AI?
Or was it written with SC, withai's help, but like, improved
(20:04):
and revised with the human?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
okay good you know, because so many people like you
know.
Oh, you wrote legally legit.
Is it chat gpt?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I know, I know, um.
I will say, though, that, uh,and and you might already know
this, shannon, but there, thereis a sneaky setting inside of
chat gpt where, if you don'tknow to turn it off, it will um
use that to help others.
So, um, indie law as well as,like you know, any type of
(20:44):
content planning that I'm doingI want to make sure that I'm not
just giving others in my spacegreat stuff that chat GPT will
give them in the future, so Imake sure that I turn off that
setting, so that chat GPT as awhole isn't like learning from
what I give it.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
So incredible, just what we're seeing.
Are you seeing I think you'regoing to see a flood now that
we're back on the air with youbut are you seeing beauty people
coming into your space, likethere was a push when we first
started, right, because wetalked about it a lot and are
you seeing beauty people?
(21:22):
And, if not, like, what's the,what's the message to the beauty
world if they're not reallytrademarking their businesses,
right?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Like yeah, the trend that I'm seeing, that I'm
excited about, is the beautyindustry that I've seen is
starting to do what otherindustries are doing that I'm
seeing, which is there are moreand more like really weird names
that are popping up.
(21:50):
Shannon, I can't remember if Igave you this example in the
past when we talked, but, like,if you go to a restaurant or a
microbrewery and you look attheir different beer options on
the menu, they have the weirdestnames, right, and that's not
just them being creativecompanies, it's they legally
have to come up with suchoutside-of-the-box names so that
(22:13):
they don't get hit with a ceaseand desist letter with any of
the names of the beers.
And I think we're starting tosee people in the beauty
industry wake up to that realityas well and very intentionally
say I'm going to come up with aname that is really hard for
anyone else just to think of inthe space yeah, because sweet
(22:34):
taken, sugar taken right mamataken, like you know all these
names purple kangaroo probablynot taken right, but quiznically
sweet or something.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
you know like nobody knows the word quiznically is.
You know, I just made it up,but you know, like you almost
have to really be thinking thatway so that you can yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Well, and what we're seeing that is really exciting
is sure, there are people thatjust come up with like, made up
names, and there's a wholemarketing difficulty that you
then have because, like, no onecan spell it correctly, no one
knows what it means.
But we're, we're starting toincreasingly, uh, work with very
cool brands, and I want to givean example so I'm not calling
(23:19):
anyone out, but like what onlyyou just like have always been
resonating with like okay, andthen heat, or there's a a
certain type of national parkthat you love, or your spirit
(23:41):
animal is a koala or something.
Koala sugar and company.
But they come up with some wordthat has that also kind of
makes sense as a sugaring space,and then their, their whole
(24:03):
brand, has that visual of koalasor bears or whatever, and so
it's um, I mean we're.
We recently helped a company Iwon't give the the industry but
they picked Tortoise as theirbrand name, and even though the
name Tortoise has nothing to dowith the product that they sell,
(24:25):
it allows them to really leaninto this visual in a cool way,
and so they're the only turtlethemed business in their space.
Okay, fair enough um, and eventhough that might not make a um
a lot of like cute or cleversense, as you're building up
(24:46):
your marketing um, there aretons of opportunities for you to
lean into that and and knowthat over time, when people
think of that flavor, of a brand, they're going to think of you.
And I mean, what are thechances that someone else is
going to randomly come up withthat, unless they're
(25:08):
intentionally trying to copy you, right?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I love that.
So we need to start thinkingout of the box and not just
sweet names and sugary names,but something you know palm tree
, tree sugaring or I don't knowwell.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I mean, I'm thinking like there could be like a okay
sugar sweet.
Could there be like a candy ora chocolate sugar, but you lean
into other things that are sweet.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Right, yeah, and it'll be easier to find your
trademark, it'll be easier toprotect yourself, it'll be
easier to theme it, yeah, oreven like salty, like our name
is salty and we're a sugaringcompany, right, like there are.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
There are, I think there are just cool, like
memorable things that aredistinct but still, and and
that's where there's still aninfinite number of trademarks
available yeah, yeah so, joey,help the audience to understand.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
so they've.
They've decided on'll just useKoala, Koala sugaring company,
just because that's the term youused.
I don't even know if there isone, Cool.
And they decide okay, I reallywant to open my own little sugar
room.
You know, I'm, I'm just a momand pop little, just me.
How important is it for thatperson to get a trademark early
(26:37):
and now?
And kind of what are, like, thebroad steps to make that happen
?
Like, how can you be of help tothem?
Not like the.
You know you teach a courseabout this, but you know what
are the kind of broad thingsthat they should be doing from?
I just laid awake at night andrealized I want it to be Koala
Sugar and Company, and then nowwhat?
What's the next step for them?
(26:58):
I want it to be koala sugaringcompany, and then now what?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
What's the next step for them?
It's a good question, shannonand I say this with all of the
love and empathy that I canmuster For it to stay small and
tiny, and just you, then there'sprobably a lot to do, because,
(27:20):
at the end of the day, if stuffgets thrown at you, if you
receive a Like, there's not areal large cost to it, and so I
want you to aim higher and builda business and a set of assets
that are actually at risk ofprotection.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Hail that.
I mean, you never know.
That was kind of where I wasleading you to.
You know, at the end of the day, like I was just one little
person, I was the sugar mama inupstairs on Sutter street in
Folsom, like I was the mom oftwo small children.
I didn't know it would be thiswhole big thing, like I had no
idea I'd be on stage speakingand doing all that, right, and
(28:02):
if I didn't protect myself thenthen you know I it's.
I've been doing this for 16years, right, that's a lot of
ground to cover.
So even start now.
Dreamer of koala sugaringcompany.
You know, yeah, yes, you neverknow.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And I would say start now, regardless of what that
start now means.
If you're understandably on abudget, totally fine.
You do not have to work with alaw firm.
As Shannon knows, we have a DIYtrademark course.
My book has lots ofstep-by-step instructions on
what you can do if you want todo it on your own, but don't
(28:46):
think that it has to be soexpensive that you can't move
forward with it.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, and take the steps, go ahead I mean you
definitely I will say I don'twant them to skip the step of at
least making sure that no otherkoala sugaring exists.
At least look, right, like.
At least start with that, Thenyou can at least sleep at night
and go okay, I'm not picking.
Somebody else had dreams ofkoala sugaring company, right,
yes.
So at least start with checkingout to see if it does have a
(29:13):
trademark already.
Then you're not pickingyourself and go, okay, this
thing's been around for 10 yearsbefore me Like duh.
Why didn't I look?
You know you've got to at leaststart with that.
And then you know, save yourmoney If you can't afford you
know the, the filing fees andsuch just save your money each
month and get to a place whereyou're getting bigger and it's
(29:35):
really smart to to lock downthat name and then, okay, so
they're getting a little bitbigger, they can afford a
trademark.
What's kind of the big picturething they do?
Do they just start searching ordo they contact you?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So there's a DI, a work with an expert route and a
middle cheap route that youprobably don't want to use.
So I do want to be transparentthat there are options like
LegalZoom out there.
We just transparently fix a lotof their messes.
(30:14):
There are reasons why thosetypes of services are so cheap
and it's because you get whatyou pay for.
So I would much rather seebusiness owners.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
If you're going to pay a company that just forms,
that fills out a form for you,then just fill out the form
yourself but I did, I did, I didyour course and I did it myself
, and then I got some assistancefrom you just to make sure I
was doing it right.
And that was easy, yeah, anddone the right way.
So okay, so you want them tocheck in, do the DIY course?
(30:53):
Just got to see what you know,if they can do it themselves,
and if there's something that'sa little you know, more tricky,
then can they call your company,like how does that work?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You can always reach out to us after you've purchased
the course.
If you purchased the course andwe will be happy to credit what
you paid for the course to ourone-to-one packages.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, and you know what.
It's so worth just doing it theright way the first time.
Y'all it is so worth it, andthen you have that peace of mind
, you know.
I mean no one has contacted meand said you know you must cease
and desist, because they knowthat I'm actually the one with
the trademark.
So I can sleep at night knowingthat I've done the right thing,
you know, by my business um,which is really great, and now
(31:38):
I've even.
I'm even more excited that Idid it the right way, because
now I will be first in the inbox.
I will be, I will.
Isn't that awesome?
It's brilliant.
I don't know if you know, toldthe powers that be.
You should do it be a trademark, but clearly Right.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
No, I I'm.
I'm just as a, not just atrademark attorney, but as like
a brand protection strategist.
It's very cool for me to seecompanies like Google looking to
trademarks to gauge thelegitimacy of the brands that
(32:16):
are working with those platforms.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, I love it.
Joey, your book is going to bein the show notes.
All the ways to get in touchwith Joey are going to be in the
show notes.
Leave comments.
Y'all Like this is how we dothis.
We could even get on anInstagram live, joey and I
together, right Like we didn'thave that back in the day,
really like they do now, youknow.
And so ask the questions.
(32:40):
Ask the questions in ourcommunity, our sugar tribe
community.
Ask these questions and Joeycan jump in and answer them.
And because we want to makesure that you are the smartest,
sweetest sugar pros that youpossibly can be, and our job is
to make sure that you learn theright way so that you can
protect yourself not only withstrong skills in sugaring, but
(33:02):
also with legal protections andbeing strong in your business as
well.
So, joey, as always, it is sofun to hang out with you.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Same.
Oh, I'm so glad we found thetime, Shannon.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I know, I know and again ask Joey any questions
that you like.
We will make sure that they getanswered and hopefully we will
have maybe another updatepodcast in the relatively near
future.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
At this rate.
Probably.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, awesome.
Just send them back and sharewith us the cool stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Thanks, Shannon.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Thanks, Joe.
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