January 11, 2021 • 50 mins
When things go south, the values-driven organization finds a new direction. Pangolin Laser Systems was faced with taking a bit hit during the shutdown caused by the COVID-19 Pandemic. Shows and product orders were being canceled. In this episode, Pangolin CEO William Benner and Chief Operating Officer Justin Perry talk with Paul Simkins about how they found ways to be resilient and productive while preparing themselves for the post-COVID economy.
Plus, Justin shares his recipe for a North Carolina-style BBQ Brisket on his Kamado Grill! You can find the recipes, and many more besides, on the Smoke and Ash Facebook group or by emailing paul@BoldlyLead.com.
You can get a copy of Paul's eBook 15 Innovative Ways to Show Employees You Care and Not Break the Bank by emailing him at paul@BoldlyLead.com.
Join the discussions at our Podcast Facebook group here.
Learn more about Paul Simkins on his website.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Producer (00:00):
The tech leaders toolbox podcast is brought to
(00:02):
you by Paul Simkins and thebully LEAD program, focusing on
helping tech leaders like you,and the frustration of low
performing teams, and losingexcellent employees, so they can
increase productivity by 50%. Gohome on time, and sleep better
at nights.
Paul Simkins (00:23):
Hello, and welcome to the tech leaders toolbox. I'm
Paul Simkins. And we're herebecause how you lead today
determines how your teamsucceeds tomorrow. This is
Episode 51 of the podcast. Andone of the things I wanted to do
because we've been severalmonths now with the pandemic and
various levels have shut down.
And it becomes so discouragingfor leaders to wonder if there's
(00:46):
an avenue of there's a chance tosucceed here with all of this.
So I wanted to share a storytoday that I think is going to
help give you a little bit ofhope there. We're revisiting
someone who's been on thepodcast before. So I'm gonna be
revisiting with Bill Benner withpangolin laser systems, as well
as his chief operating officerJustin Perry. And they're going
(01:10):
to tell you how what they'vebeen doing during the pandemic
to keep on going. And I thinkit's going to give you some
ideas and give you some hope.
Unknown (01:21):
Are you ready?
Paul Simkins (01:22):
Let's go.
Well, my guests today are frompangolin laser Systems, Inc. I
have with me William Benner, thePresident and Chief Technical
Officer of pangolin lasersystems, as well as the Chief
Operating Officer Justin Perry.
Bill bynner, Julian bynner. He'sprovide the company provides
(01:45):
hardware, software and servicesfor laser light shows all over
the world. Chances are, have youseen an excellent laser light
show somewhere? It's a good betit was powered by pangalan. Now
bill holds numerous US andinternational patents. He's had
articles published in tradejournals and other publications.
And he's the co author ofmultiple books. Justin is the
(02:07):
chief technical officer andpartner in pangolin laser
systems. Starting with him in2008. He has a degree in
business administration from theUniversity of Central Florida,
and of course lives in theCentral Florida area. He is
married, he has an he mentionedhe has a daughter and another
one on the way. Very soon.
(02:31):
Justin has been featured inseveral trade journals. And
again, has been working withBill since 2008. Bill Justin,
welcome to the show.
Unknown (02:40):
Thanks getting a two for one special today, Paul.
Paul Simkins (02:42):
There you go.
Always like it. Great.
conversate always makes forgreat conversations. So again,
you know, I always like to startout because I love to hear
stories, the journeys of howpeople got where they are. Now,
Bill you've been on before. Andso so again, recap for those who
it's been a while recap forthose how you got where you are?
Unknown (03:01):
Sure, I'll give a very brief introduction, and then
kind of maybe up to the pointwhere we Justin joined the
company, and then he can kind oftake over from there. But yeah,
basically, you know, it's afunny story. It started as I was
in a rock band. In high schoolin college, I was a rock band.
And what was neat was all therock bands at the time, the
biggest acts of the blues arecalled Pink Floyd. And others
(03:24):
had lasers a part of their band,and I had already made a
lighting system for our band. Solasers was just to kind of the
next evolutionary step figuredwe'd need that. And it was very
difficult to accomplish. But yetI accomplished it. And the
lasers got lots of notoriety forthe band and for the, and we had
other bands come up to me andsay, Hey, How'd you do that?
Would you do that for us, too.
And the band just kind offizzled out, as normally happens
(03:46):
with bands, especially highschool and college bands. But my
love for lasers and musiccontinued. So I met another guy
who had similar interests inmusic and lasers. And we said,
hey, let's get together and makea business out of this. And we
did. And basically built thebusiness from an idea from,
from, you know, kind of whatsort of as a college project and
(04:07):
when neither of us have businessdegrees, and we're just really
passionate about the technologyand about what it does to
events, which is really spicesevents up and built the
business. And so my story and Ithink I covered this last time
to you was was kind of coming toa plateau right? I built the
business as good as I could. Butneither of us having me or my
(04:28):
foreign partner Patrick havingbusiness degrees, we didn't
really know what it was we dideverything we knew how to do but
it came to a plateau is about1.2 million. And and Justin
joined us in right around2008 2008 Yep, yeah. And and of
course, we just kind of gottenthrough is really the the
epicenter of the great financialcrisis, great time to join. But
(04:52):
nevertheless, Justin who doeshave a business degree and lots
of passion for business and Alot of drive, kind of took,
participate in the business andreally implemented many things
that have taken us from theplateau where i, where i had
accomplished too many boundsabove that. So I'll just kind of
(05:14):
that's where my story kind ofdoesn't really no, because I'm
still here, but that's whereJustin's joins. Uh, maybe this
would be a good time for Justinto introduce himself and tell
his story.
Well, thanks. Thanks for theoverview. Bill. It's a that was
definitely a good one. And yeah,my story's it's pretty
interesting. I, I had always hadan appreciation for lasers. And
(05:36):
when I was in college of blues,my sophomore year, Bill, you
would put a an advertisement upfor a position looking for
somebody with some accountingand marketing related
background. And I always had acuriosity for lasers played with
them as a young kid and lookedat the company. And it looked
really, really interesting andfit in line with what I was
(05:57):
studying. And then, as I camein, for my interview, I remember
we were it was right around thetime you guys were developing
beyond. And so as a part of myinterview process, I had to put
together a marketing plan of howwe would roll roll the product
out. And we ended up scrappingthat marketing plan. But it
allowed me to learn a lot moreabout the laser industry as a
(06:18):
whole. And what what fascinatedme about the industry at that
time as it was, it's a veryniche industry that was poised
for incredible growth. A laseras a technology in the lighting
industry was still not as widelyused as your classical le led
moving head fixtures and thingslike that. But it was an
(06:39):
emerging effect. So I kind ofsaw the the opportunity that it
has had as something that reallyintrigued me, like we could
really blow this thing out ofthe water, if we put the right
pieces and tools in place. Andanother big passion of mine had
always been internationaltravel, I, as a young kid always
had a desire to see the worldexperience different cultures
(07:01):
and stuff like that. And, andpangolin at the time had being
an international company. Youknow, I remember you told me one
day, Jeff, you know, Justin,you're going to love the travel
for the first couple of years.
And so we we started doing a lotof trade shows around the world.
And that kind of opened my eyesup as to what was happening in
the lighting, industry, and thenthe laser industry as a whole,
(07:22):
just getting to see how itworked in different in different
parts of the world. So, youknow, we started really growing
the software enter the businessby penetrating China, one of the
first strategies we employed waswas basically, you know, the
vast majority of projectors arebuilt in China, let's let's make
sure that they're they'repairing our control and software
(07:43):
together with that. And as aresult of that, we built up just
a monumental database, theproduct line really got into the
hands of a just a really largeamount of people and we built
our internal marketing databaseup to you know, I'd be, yeah, we
passed 70,000, we had, ourdatabase actually got so big
(08:04):
that the software we were usingcouldn't handle it anymore. And
we had to we had to migrate toanother smoker. So you know,
we're really, really proud to beable to get that many clients in
the database. And then fromthere, we started looking at,
well, how can we branch out alittle bit more and, and so what
we had realized from traveling,going to these trade shows and
(08:26):
stuff was you know, we we as asa control company did a lot of
the research and the developmentand Bill, I mean, you kind of
pioneered a lot of that stuff.
And then the people whomanufacture the projectors sell
this together with that, butthey make they're making the
lion's share, you know, they'remaking the lion's share of the
money. So, you know, it was kindof like, we did a lot of the we
(08:50):
did a lot of the research anddevelopment, you know, we're
doing the support, but theseguys are these guys are making
the lion's share, you can kindof think of it. Um, you know,
Intel sells the microprocessor,it's, it's inside of the
computer, but Dell is reallymaking a larger volume of that.
And, you know, so we kind of hada brainstorming session, we were
going to some masterminds, andwe're like, why don't we flip
(09:11):
the script? And, you know, we'vegot the database. You know, all
the clients that perform lasershows are in our database,
because they're using oursoftware. Why don't we Why don't
we try to consider selling theprojector to them as well. And,
and from there, we were at atrade show in, in Europe, and we
met a guy named do Sean, who wasthe sales manager at a factory
(09:32):
over there named kavon, inSlovakia, and they're based out
of Slovakia. So they had really,really high quality engineering
at an Eastern European price,but they didn't have a very big
customer base. And you know, sowe kind of explored the idea of
giving them some designs andideas for projectors that we
would then distribute to ourcustomer base and, and so that
(09:54):
kind of eventually evolved intoa division of pangalan that we
call pangalan lasers and at Thatthat division kind of exploded
as well. And so, you know, kindof the combination of that is,
is what's led us kind of wherewe are today. I mean, both
divisions of the company areeven in COVID times doing really
(10:14):
strong that's because we're sowell diversified. And then a lot
of you know the additionaldevelopments that you came up
with Bill with the the opticalscanning technology and stuff
like that this you know, we kindof are a one stop shop now we
can provide you offer on thecontrol hardware, the
projectors, the OEM componentsthat would go into a laser
projector, and it's just, it'sallowed us to really diversify
(10:36):
out and and so that's just kindof that's kind of my story as
how I evolved in the leisureindustry. Kind of where my
passion passion for it camefrom, I just always loved the
idea of being able to take to bein an industry that was on the
brink of growing andyou know, kind of exploding and
laser light shows havedefinitely exploded over the
(10:57):
years and popularity and stuff.
And, and being able to operateon an international scale and
bring a product to aninternational marketplace. It
was always fascinating to me andpangolins certainly provided a
vehicle that allowed for that tohappen. So
Paul Simkins (11:14):
great. So So basically, at this point, y'all
manufacture the hardware youdevelop and produce the software
and, and even program thesystems, correct?
Unknown (11:27):
Yes, that's right. So we actually manufacture the guts
of the projector right here inour offices in Sanford, the
actual things that go into this,which is usable, not only a
laser projector, but also otherthings like 3d printers and self
driving cars. These are ourother customers. And that's
further diversification of ourthing. The actual projectors
(11:48):
themselves are stillmanufactured in Slovakia, but
they use a lot of the componentsthat we manufacture here in, in
Sanford, and then they ship itback here to Sanford and we we
go all around the world. So it'skind of a funny, funny thing.
It's sometimes even Ilan says,you know, you take an atom out
of the ground and how many timesthat Adam goes around the world
(12:09):
before finally reaching andcustomer. It's funny. Yeah.
Okay.
Paul Simkins (12:15):
So a couple of things that you talked about
there that resonated me. Well,the first is just kind of an off
note. You talked about thetravel and getting the
opportunity to travel and Billsaying, Yeah, you're gonna get
sick of it real soon. I know,company. I
Unknown (12:27):
know. He didn't even say that. But you picked it up.
Yeah, yeah. You're gonna be inthe beginning as a company,
Paul Simkins (12:34):
I worked for MIT several years ago, I had the
opportunity to travel a lot as atrainer doing because we had
partners overseas. And it wasthat same thing. At first. It
was like, exciting, great. I'mgoing to Hong Kong, I'm going to
Singapore, I'm going to KualaLumpur and Australia and wow.
And then, and then after awhile, I'm going like, Oh, I'm
going to Hong Kong again. And itjust you know, especially going
(12:56):
by yourself, it gets old.
Unknown (12:58):
And it's all the things that happen on a plane like
screaming kids, your seatkickin, and sometimes you have a
smelly person sits next to you.
And you know, it's just usexperience all kinds of stuff.
So it's, it makes the trip notso fun.
Paul Simkins (13:13):
Yeah, that typically overseas trips are
almost always packed plans are
Unknown (13:17):
Yeah, it's not where you're sitting. It's us sitting
around you. That's my Yeah,
Paul Simkins (13:22):
I made the mistake my first trip overseas, where I
took the window seat. Mm hmm.
And the person's noses, youknow, 747 and said, the people
sitting in the middle seat andon the emcee, both basically
slept the entire trip. Soanytime I needed to get up, I
had to wake everybody up so Icould climb out. Yeah.
Unknown (13:46):
Yeah, yep.
Paul Simkins (13:47):
So now the other thing that that resonated me
with Bill, you talked about howyou hit that point where base
with your background andknowledge. You and your partner
took it as far as you could go?
Sure. And and I like that,because you know, one of the
things we talk about inleadership with john Maxwell
calls the law of the lid. Yeah,which is that an organization
(14:08):
can only grow as far as ourleadership lid will take it.
Unknown (14:13):
Exactly.
Paul Simkins (14:15):
And the only way to take it further is we have to
expand our lid and some andquite often that's by knowing
who to bring in. Sure. That'spart of what made Ray Kroc had
success with McDonald's. Yes,absolutely. Knowing the people
to bring in so that it's greatthat you recognize that and
we're able to act upon that.
Unknown (14:33):
Yeah. together at the same time, one of them was
meeting Justin and bringing himon and another was meeting
Steven place and starting to hismasterminds with Justin and then
we we implemented the weimplemented this is he either
one of these wouldn't havegotten us where as wells but the
combination of having somebodypassionate and had a business
(14:56):
background like Justin and and alot of drawing To implement
these things, because any ofthese mastermind guys will tell
you it's nothing withoutimplementation ideas without
implementation is just dreams. Ithink you also to Phil, you
always, you've always put a bigemphasis on continued education,
you know, kind of a Kaizenapproach of constantly constant
(15:17):
improvement, constant learning.
And and so one of the thingsthat bill always made a point
was every year we were going togo to a mastermind for a while
it was Steve places, we we wentto my some Mike cleanings
related stuff. Nick nanton, youwent to the wakeup word? Yeah,
we did. I did the wakeboardthing. But he, he's always
(15:38):
really made that kind of aprinciple within the company
that continued education,constant learning is a core
value in the core principlehere. And, and always, you've
always done an amazing job ofjust providing the resources and
capability to be able to dothat. And I think, you know,
we've always looked at continueeducation, education through the
lens of we want to be thedumbest guys in the room, for
(15:58):
sure. You know, if we're, we'rethe smartest guys in the room,
we're in the wrong room, we wantto be the dumbest guys in the
room. And, and so we've always,you know, I think part of the
success that we've had too, isjust constantly seeking out new
paths and new avenues to tocontinually educate ourselves
and put ourselves intouncomfortable scenarios and
uncomfortable situations whereit kind of forces growth. So
(16:21):
then definitely think that'sbeen something very much instill
a value you've instilled intothe company. That's certainly
contributed to the success aswell. Yep.
Paul Simkins (16:32):
Excellent philosophy, you know, is that
the old saying is if you know,if you're, if you're not
uncomfortable, you're notgrowing? Yeah. All right. So I
wanted to go back, because whenBill and I talked back in the
spring, the COVID, was reallyjust starting to hit hard. And
we hadn't really felt theeffects from it. But when we
talked the other week, you didstart feeling the effects of it,
(16:54):
but you did some things. And Iwanted you to talk about, again,
how it impacted you and what aresome of the things you've been
doing to deal with that? Sincethe spring?
Unknown (17:04):
Yeah, maybe I'll talk from a kind of a high level
approach of the company and youcould talk kind of specifically
about the marketing and thatsort of thing. So so what we did
was it did impact us, you know,be basically the lockdowns,
especially, which, you know,even the World Health
Organization now says is a badidea. You know, it's, it was a
(17:25):
bad idea, right. So iteverything stops, right. So now
at the time, it was a lot oflayoffs, Justin, and I know a
lot of people got laid off rightaway, you know, we've been and I
felt really bad about that. Ifelt like corporate america
really let people down. And Ididn't want to do that we had
plenty of cash in the bank, wehave the way we way we run the
company is to have cashreserves, you know, we're not in
(17:48):
debt. Right. So we it's anotherthing to whose credits kind of
different about us fromcorporate America, right? So so
I knew that basically, even ifwe had zero revenue coming in,
we could survive for a period oftime. And I was determined to do
that. So we kept all of our fulltime staff, we, we didn't cut
any hours, we didn't cut anypeople. And as soon as we could,
(18:09):
as soon as the lockdowns wereover, we brought everyone back,
because I could tell that peoplewere starting to get kind of
stir crazy, you know, it's likepeople, they need to have social
interaction. So we brought themall back. And so so that was one
thing. And it was all done onprinciple, not because we had to
have it not because we needed toproduce this product, we kind of
didn't, you know, in themeantime, when we were
producing, we had everyonecontinuing to do the job, just
(18:31):
like they always had. And withthe purpose of now we're
building up stock, right? So nowit actually puts us in a better
position. Because we can say, inan industry, which typically
delivers in 11 to 16 weeks, wecan say delivering from stock,
which we could do now. Right? SoSo basically, we've used the
opportunity to kind of makeourselves stronger in that way.
(18:53):
Plus, it's made the communitystronger and so much that you
know, all the employees reallyappreciate still having jobs in
not not having their hours cut,and appreciate it and they kind
of appreciate that we kepteveryone together kept everyone
interacting weekly had a coupleof outage outings and a team
building exercise and stuff likethat. So So basically, kind of
(19:14):
from a from a companyperspective, I just wanted to
keep things going. And only keepthings going from the business
standpoint, but keep keep theinternal machine going. Right
just because it's it'simportant, you know, people,
people, that the people who workhere, our customers to the
extent that we have been able tokeep our customers lives, the
(19:35):
same and we have to some extent,but to the extent that we can
keep everything the same. Wewanted to keep everything kind
of just just to maintain thesanity. You know, there's been
so much drug abuse and alcoholabuse and spousal abuse and all
kinds of other things, you know,just because things are going
crazy. And fortunately, wewithin our sphere of influence.
(19:59):
We've been able to To keep,we've been able to really push
all that stuff away because it'sjust Alexei it's all been on
principle, it's all been on,we're going to do this, we this
is what we're going to do, we'renot going to, we're not going to
participate in this in thisviolent basically that's it I
said no virus will stop us thatwas the thing. That was kind of
(20:21):
our foundational thing. So nowthat was that's kind of sets the
business aside, that was kindof, like I said, just on
principle, but but now I'll turnit over to Justin talk about
kind of what we did from abusiness standpoint to keep
money coming in and and to keepand, you know, some expenses
were cutting, but I'll turn itover to him to talk about kind
(20:43):
of the marketing the businessand, and how it has all played
out forus. So on the employee note to
Bill, you, he definitely did Imean, he, Gary Vaynerchuk, made
it made a comment and and we hadtalked about this earlier in the
year, but you work for youremployees. And he basically
said, if you if you take themindset work for you, you're
going to lose your key players,you work for your employees, and
(21:06):
you, you definitely did late laythat foundation of that
principle across the company.
And I think from a leaderleadership point of view, when
the team saw that saw you doingthat, I think, I think they
appreciated it. And itdefinitely was a bit
inspirational and a time whereyou do talk to a lot of people
and you hear your buddies aregetting laid off and stuff like
(21:26):
that, when people see that, hey,you know, the founder of our
company is actually figuring outhow we can organize a team
building for us. I think thatthat that resonated a long way.
Yeah, from a businessstandpoint, we, um, so it's
funny, when the pandemic hit, Iwas in the middle of a podcast
called think like a CEO. And itwas from the founder of Keller
(21:48):
Williams. And so we're listeningto that podcast. And he said, in
times of crisis, you want torevert back to your ABCs. And
what he meant by that was, firstthings first, go through all
your expenses, go through yourcredit card statements and start
to label stuff in order have aBNC a meaning I have to bear
this expense, this is a thiscost is a cost of doing business
(22:11):
that we cannot go without yourbees are things that help the
company operate better, but arenot necessarily required. And
C's are things that are a luxuryto have, but certainly do not
help the company required. Andeven goes down to DS where I
don't know what this is, what isthis expense? And why are we
(22:32):
paying for it. And basically,you eliminate your DS, you
eliminate your C's, and youevaluate your B's and you keep
your Ace and so we kind ofstarted there. And it was an
interesting exercise because itallowed us to see, you know, why
do we have this subscription forthis service, you know, are we
are we actively using that isthat active actively providing
value to us, as well as to ourclients. And so we were able to
(22:56):
cut a lot of our overheadexpenses down to just the core,
the core things that we really,really did, did need for
operational purposes. And thatfreed up a little bit of cash
flow, to invest into things thatdo make a lot of money. So we,
you know, we cut someoperational expenses, but then
we took some of those savingsand invested them in a new CRM
(23:18):
and an automation marketingsoftware. We invested a lot a
large amount of money into toonline advertising. So Well, a
lot of companies were cuttingtheir ad budgets, we actually
kind of doubled down on that.
And, you know, the interestingthing is if people do their
homework on on ad costs is thereover the pandemic advertising
costs have gone down, not up.
(23:40):
You know, Facebook's andGoogle's realize that small
businesses are a large, a largeadvertising block for them. And
and they did reduce a lot of theadvertising costs and provided
some incentives for for peopleto advertise. So we've kind of
doubled down on the advertising,and actually increased our
budgets there. So we kind ofpushed on to the throttle from
(24:01):
that respect rather than heldback. And, and then from an
operational standpoint, we kindof looked at every process
inside of the company from ouradministrative processes to our
shipping and receiving processesto our repair processes. Where's
Where are things broken? WhereWhere can they be fixed? Where
can we automate, where can weimprove it? So we spent a lot of
(24:23):
time doing that, as well ascross training employees on
different processes andprocedures within the company.
And kind of going forward fromthere, one of the it's something
we've always wanted to do andand in all fairness, we're not
done with this project yet. It'sstill an ongoing process
project, but was internalcompany documentation. Right? So
(24:44):
so one of the dreams is that oneday, one day the company will
operate like a McDonald's stuff,right? We will be that efficient
and that that will documentedthat I could bring somebody in
off of the street and have themtrained and ready to go in a
week. You know, Ready to go in aweek. And with as complex as our
business, our operatingbusinesses operating
(25:05):
internationally, it's tough toget new new staff trained and
stuff like that. So we'reinvesting a lot of time into
create, using software liketrain Yule, to create video
tutorials for companyprocedures. Instead of having a
manual, we actually have videotraining tutorials on how to
perform different functionsacross the company. So that's,
(25:26):
that's been another big, bigthing we did over throughout
COVID. Just Just to make thebusiness operate, operate a
little bit better.
And then finally, we actuallyincreased our marketing and so
much as re optimizing ourwebsites, building new websites,
improving improving thefunctionality of the websites,
(25:48):
how they operate, how theyintegrate with the CRM, how they
integrate with the accountingsoftware. Just just really taken
a bird's eye view to to how doesour How does our machine work?
There's a great book I'drecommend for anybody who
listens, listens to the podcast.
And it's from Ray Dalio, andit's called principles. So if
you don't know who Ray Dalio is,he's the founder of Bridgewater
(26:10):
associates is the world'slargest privately held hedge
fund. And he's an amazing,amazing businessman. And he
says, you know, you really gotto look at your, your business
like a machine, and how do I oilthe machine? And how, you know,
if something breaks in aprocess, what broken my machine?
And so we kind of looked at thebusiness from from from that
(26:31):
view? And how do we make thismachine more efficient? You
know, how, how do we how do wego from from driving a truck to
driving a Tesla, you know, and,and that, that those exercises
definitely did help. You know,they've improved processes here,
they've improved productivity.
And I think when when eventuallythings do get back to normal,
(26:53):
we'll really be poised to, totackle the market in a much,
much more effective way.
And in all the cases, he said,we even mean, just, I met all
the employees, and I endedbecause the point was, is that
although we kept our staff, thepoint wasn't, okay, we're gonna
keep paying you for do nothing.
It's what I said is all thepains in the butt that you've
(27:13):
experienced all the lack offixtures, all this, anything, it
was a pain in the butt, now isthe time to fix those main
divots. Now that we don't knowthat we're not busy actually
making product for thecustomers, let's fix anything,
it was a pain in the butt. Sothat one, when it does turn out
that now it's time to turn onthat switch and start producing
and we're going to be able to doit better. Because we did now
(27:34):
Now we got time to deal with thepain. When we're cranking we
don't have the time to deal withit. Now we got to deal with and
and fortunately for us that timedidn't last very long. It's like
it for myself as a as a as a newproduct seller. I thought, Well,
finally, now we're gonna getsome time to really work on some
new things. And, and that onlylasts for about two weeks for
(27:55):
me, and then I had to get backin back in motion yet. But yeah,
everybody in the companyparticipated in improving
everything about the company.
Paul Simkins (28:06):
Right? Well, what I like I hear about that, and
is, you know, first of all,again, that from the beginning,
it was your commitment of wedon't want to get rid of
anybody, we're gonna look forways to keep everybody. But not
only that, when you looked atWell, you know, obviously,
somewhere we have to trimthings. But your your focus was,
(28:28):
was never really on trimmingemployees, it was always on what
else can we trim to try and getus through this time. And so
again, you very much kept thatfocus on boys. And not only did
you did you not just Well, we'rejust not just we're not going to
get rid of people. But we'regoing to kind of stagnate, you
said no, let's double you doubledown on your people as well as
(28:50):
on your processes and doubledown and said, Let's get people
cross trained. Let's keep themengaged. Let's keep them going.
Let's let's find creative waysto keep everybody working.
Unknown (29:02):
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.
Paul Simkins (29:05):
How has everybody responded to that? I mean,
Unknown (29:09):
Well, I'll tell you what, I think what we can do is
talk about, you know, the proofof the pudding is in the eating.
And, and the The bottom line isthat our business is down by
30%. That that's amazing.
Because we're, we're still debtfree. You know, and I tell you
why I'm looking at corporateAmerica right now. And it is
just debt out there. It's justamazing. So I think that we're
(29:31):
doing amazingly well for havinggotten through this pandemic,
you know, to be down only by 30%from a record year. 2019 was a
record year for us. Yeah. So andnot only
down by 30%. But if we look atthe industry that we're in, we
are in the entertainmentindustry. So our primary markets
(29:52):
are touring, festivals,concerts, you know, I mean,
those are the primary marketsthat we serve. And, and they got
obliterated, I mean, let's behonest, you know, COVID COVID
obliterated a lot of that stuff.
So for us to only be down 30% Ithink a we need to be very
thankful but be it's off, it'sdefinitely, it's definitely a
(30:13):
result of just the mindset thatwe've adopted as an organization
that we, you know, like BillBill said earlier, we are not
going to play by by this COVIDplaybook, we're going to write
our own playbook and we're goingto use the term often weather
the storm, you know, we're goingto weather the storm and, and
we've really, really done a goodjob at that. And, you know, in
(30:34):
our industry as well, we'vehelped other people become
creative, you know, not only inour own company, but you know,
driving laser shows Who wouldhave ever thought driving laser
shows is going to be a thing,right? You know, you're going to
drive into a parking lot whereyou'd see a movie, and they're
going to start putting on lasershows, this is actually emerging
as, as an incredibly popular wayof getting people out, you can
(30:59):
do it safely it you know, if youif you're following that, that
mindset, you can do these, youcan do a drive and laser show
very safely, everybody canmaintain a social distance. And
it brings joy and excitementinto people's people's lives
duringa time when they probably need
it. And this past weekend,Justin and a couple other people
on the team put on this thing.
(31:19):
Why don't you describe it?
Because I don't even know how todescribe this thing. It's
like a it's a blizzard? It's areverse. What do they call it?
Yeah, it was, it's called areverse parade. So So what so we
just moved out to the very lastkind of give you the, the full
full picture, we moved on to thevery, I'm an avid golf junkie.
So I'm out playing golf at thelocal club, and the I get paired
(31:40):
up with the city manager. Youknow, we're over 18 holes, we're
talking and he's like, you know,you do laser lightshow stuff.
And I was like, Yeah, well, webuild the equipment and stuff.
And he's like, man, we'reracking our brains about what to
do for our Christmas parade.
Because, you know, we can't havepeople congregating because of
the fear of COVID. And we'rejust trying to figure out what
(32:01):
we can do with this. So he said,they were thinking about this
concept called a reverse parade,where people will drive into a
park, and instead of the paradegoing by you, and you're
standing out on the streetcorner, you drive around the
parade. So, you know, he showedme some photos and some ideas.
And I'm like, you know, nooffense city manager, but this
is pretty boring on the image. Ithink after a year of isolation,
(32:26):
if people are gonna wait in lineto see this, they, they might
not come to the Christmas paradenext time you have one. And and
so we as a team, we all talkedabout it. And we're like, Well,
why don't we sponsor this thingas a way of showing the
community what we do bringingsome joy into the community and
stuff. And, and so we set it up.
(32:48):
So what they have is a big park,and it's got a, it's got a road
that kind of goes around thepark, and they set up these
flows, you know, yourtraditional parade floats
throughout that. And then at theend of the loop, there's a big
laser light show kind of as asthe finale. And, I mean, it was
so successful, we're stillgetting the worst of the wait
(33:09):
for the final count on thenumber of people that attended.
But it's well in the mat, well,above about 30,000 people were
sure of just based on the numberof cars that we counted average
number of people per cars. And Ithink I think the final tally
will surely be more than that.
And it was it's a backed up formiles, you know, just just miles
and miles and miles andparticipants. So, um, you know,
(33:31):
so if you had, again, justanother example of using
creative approaches to solveproblems, and, and we, you know,
we would have never imaginedthat, you know, driving laser
shows or reverse parade with alaser show, that this would be
an application for thetechnology, but you know, in
times of crisis, innovation,innovation, you know, it's kind
(33:53):
of key and thinking outside thebox is is key. And so it's you
know, it's working, it'sbecoming, it's definitely
becoming a thing, it'sdefinitely becoming a thing.
Paul Simkins (34:04):
So how did all these decisions that you made,
again, the focus on keeping yourpeople and not just keeping your
people but doubling down crosstraining and everything? How did
your personal or organizationalcore values drive those
decisions?
Unknown (34:22):
And you know, that you know, what's funny is what
you just said, is, Paul is is,is the is exactly what it is. In
other words, the core valuesdrove the decisions. I don't
know how they did, but they justthat's that's what happened.
That is an explanation of whathappened. What were you using?
(34:42):
What happened? Well, our corevalues drove the decision.
That's that is what happened. Idon't know. I don't know how it
happened. But that's I don'tknow how to explain how it
happened. But that is what yourquestion is what happened. You
know, your question is anexplanation of what happened is
The core values it is anapplication, you know, so in
when, when the crisis hit ourcore core values came out even
(35:06):
more is became even morepowerful or more more obvious,
more evident.
Yeah, I think, you know, in thatrespect, I think in times and
times of crisis, what you, youknow, what you truly stand for
will become apparent. And, andso, this was a, you know, it's,
(35:28):
it's been a tough year foreverybody. And, and you've
always told the people here atthe company, you know, I want
pangalan, to be a vehicle forgrowth for you, personally, I
want you to, you know, thecompany is here to help you as
an individual grow. And so 2020was a year where a lot of the
values that that as a company weprofess to stand for, got
(35:50):
tested. So, you know, it waskind of an opportunity for us to
put our money where our mouthwas where we where are we going
to stand behind the core valuesthat we profess, we stand for?
Or are we going to make the easydecision and just start laying
people off and doom and gloomand what was me, and, and we
stood behind the laurels, and westood behind the value system
(36:11):
that that that exists within thecompany. And and it was a test
of that. And I think I thinkthat we've passed the test, I
think that we've proven to ourteam and to the industry that we
we stand behind the value systemthat we profess to believe in,
it was interesting poll is thatthe I was in a kind of a it was
(36:31):
one of these zoom meeting typethings between a bunch of
companies and that and basicallyour collective clients. And you
know, I gave a presentation, andin my presentation I showed no
virus will stop us. And then ourcompetitor did a presentation
and he said something like,Well, how do you expect us to do
anything? There's a pandemic,right? I'd much rather be us
(36:53):
than them right now. We're doingpretty well. I think that they I
mean, they got it, they wereamazed that they're in business
just because of if that's yourattitude, how am I supposed to
do anything, there's a pandemic,how am I suppose it is a, always
a victimhood, but it was like,it was it was self defeatist.
(37:13):
Right? It was self defeatist. Soit was, it was a big stark
difference between ourpresentation and our attitude
that we projected. And there's
Paul Simkins (37:25):
I love how you knew what your non negotiables
were with all of this, and youstuck with it. Yeah. And
committed to it. That's great.
All right. So finally, so what'sone tip or one thing a leader
can do or apply today? To addvalue to their team?
Unknown (37:42):
What would you say?
Just, you know, I'm gonna goback to the, to the discussion
that, that I think that thewhole conversation has evolved
around, it's your value system,I think one of one of the best
things a leader can do is knowwhat their own principles and
value system is, you know, and,and it sounds kind of corny. But
But every mastermind that we goto the real leaders in the
(38:03):
group, I always hear them saythe same thing. You need to, you
need to have a value system, youneed to have principles, and you
need to be working for somethingbigger than yourself. Because if
you're just working foryourself, eventually you're
going to lose motivation. But ifyou have a larger purpose and
and a larger value system and alarger set of principles, it's
bigger than just you as oneperson is and
(38:28):
communicate that to the team.
Yeah. team have that. Yeah, thatthe whole thing is bigger than
the team. Exactly.
Yeah. And and so i think i thinkit's a it's a great exercise for
anybody who's in a leadershipbased position to take take some
time, you know, we're going intoa new year, take some time on a
quiet evening and write downwhat your values are as a human
(38:50):
being and what your principlesas a human being are, and try to
live live by those laurels. Makesure to communicate. Yeah.
Paul Simkins (39:01):
Excellent. Great.
Thank you both William better,Justin Perry. Thanks for being
on the show.
Unknown (39:06):
Thank you, Paul.
Producer (39:09):
While you're here, take a moment right now to
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(39:31):
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Paul Simkins (39:38):
All right, and we're back and of course this
part of the show one of myfavorite things to do because I
love outdoor cooking. I do allkinds of outdoor cooking. I've
got a smoker I've got a grill.
Dutch ovens and being involvedin the scouting program, do a
lot of camping and cookingoutdoors over open fire and with
coals and Dutch ovens and alland so I love doing this so
much. I've actually created afew Facebook group called smokin
(39:59):
dash, and on the smoking dashFacebook group me and all of my
friends who are other also fansof outdoor cooking. We share
recipes we share what we'redoing this weekend, what we're
working on, our everybody likesto show off pictures of their
cookers and all that and talkabout all the wonderful things
they can do. And so I like toshare a outdoor cooking recipe
(40:20):
in every episode of the show.
And I also make that recipeavailable out on the smoke and
ash Facebook group. And when Ihave guests, I like to invite
them if they have a favoriterecipe to share, to share that
recipe with the group as well.
And Justin, you said you had agreat recipe that you wanted to
share with us today.
Unknown (40:41):
Yeah, so I've recently joined the the smoker
brotherhood and I bought myselfa kamado grill. And I've been
fascinated with it ever sincesince I purchased it. And many
moons ago before I was a marriedman, I dated a girl up in North
Carolina and I had also fallenin love in that period of my
(41:02):
life with that North Carolinavinegar based barbecue sauce.
And so when I got the tomato, Istarted reading, reading up on
briskets, and how difficult theyare to cook and you know, you
kind of have to break the meatdown and all these different
things. And so I read a lot ofdifferent strategies and ideas
about how to cook a brisket andthen kind of played on my own
(41:24):
experience having gone up toNorth Carolina and having a real
passion for that North Carolinastyle vinegar based barbecue and
I kind of melded all the thingstogether. And so so the recipe
kind of goes like this is um, goget it you know, you go and get
a good sized brisket. If you canfind the USDA prime version of
the brisket, it will make anexponential difference in the
(41:47):
quality of the final cook. Andso I highly recommend Sam's Club
they have USDA prime beef overthere. Many times it's going to
be cheaper than your localsupermarkets choice based beef.
So prime beef obviously being amuch higher grade a much higher
quality. So try to find a primebrisket if you can. Once you get
(42:08):
it home, you're you're gonnawant to trim trim the fat off of
it, but leave about a quarterinch of that fat cap on the top
of it. But save those other fattrimmings they will come in
useful they will come and usefuldown the road. But you're going
to want to trim the brisketafter that. And then the next
stage is making your rub. Sodifferent people have different
(42:29):
flavor flavor palates. I've useda simple mix of garlic powder,
paprika, salt, pepper, a littlebit of cumin in there, a little
bit of cayenne pepper, because Ilike the spice. And then
sometimes I'll use a little bitof nutmeg in there to kind of
add another layer of complexity,get your rug going and then
really rub that into yourbrisket. And before you put the
(42:51):
rub on a little trick that Ilearned was to if you can get
peanut oil and rub the brisketwith peanut oil, and then put
the and then put the rub onafter that the rub is going to
stick to the meat a lot better.
And that peanut oil kind ofhelps just kind of helps
tenderize the beef a little bitit gives it a little bit of a
nutty flavor. And thatdefinitely tends to shine
(43:12):
through in the final cook. Soonce you've got your peanut oil
on and you've rubbed, you rubyour brisket down, you put it in
the oven or not in the oven inthe fridge, wrap it in saran
wrap and you want to let it sitfor about 24 hours. But after
that you're going to fire yoursmoker up you want to get around
to 25 to 250 put your brisket inthere and you're pretty much
setting it and forgetting it.
(43:33):
And then the next stage afterthat is making your your sauce
and so with the sauce, I like togo get a good tomato puree,
something that hasorganic if you can find it and
you don't want to have anypreservatives, no, you know No,
none of those ones that haveolive oil and salt and other
stuff just real raw tomato pasteare to make a tomato puree. And
(43:56):
then you're going to put sometomato paste in there. Then
after that, you're going to getsome apple cider vinegar and
you're going to add that applecider vinegar to that and the
rate the rations and the theportions that you're going to
you're going to use here dependon how many people you're making
it for. So it kind of variesdepending on how many people
(44:16):
you're making it for but applecider vinegar, then after that a
little bit of honey and if youcan get it molasses, a little
bit of mustard in there, salt,pepper, and then you're going to
whisk that all together. Andthen you've got you've got the
base of your sauce and you cankind of add add seasonings as
you like but that's really yourbase. And then once you have
that based on then you want toget a block of brown sugar and
(44:39):
crumble that in there and beginto whisk that in and sweet
sweeten it up to your desiredsweetness level and you kind of
have your base and then by atthat stage, probably about four
hours, four hours after you'vehad your brisket on the smoker
then you just give it a lightlittle mop and then close it
back up and keep smoking andthen About about every hour
(44:59):
after that, I give it a littlemop. Another trick that I've
learned is when you when youmake that brisket, if you take
some chunks of hickory wood ormesquite wood, and you soak
those in apple cider vinegarovernight and put them into the
smoker, when you put the brisketin, that just kind of adds
another level of complexity tothe brisket as well. So not
(45:23):
required, but kind of an extrastep that that really sweetens
things up. And then after thatevery hour, you're just mopping
your brisket mopping yourbrisket, mopping your brisket.
And I've kind of found, so I'mnormally doing about anywhere
between an eight to 10 poundbrisket. And I'll smoke that for
about 16 hours. Sometimes evenmore, you know, to the point
(45:46):
where on the outside it ischarred, I mean it is almost
black. And then when I bring itinside it is you will try to cut
it and it should just crumble.
It's almost just meltingtogether so it gets so tender
inside. And when you use thatPrime beef that that fat, that
(46:07):
fat just melts. And so you can'teven really slice it at that
point. It just becomes thiscrumbled beef brisket with a lot
of good fat in there. And thenyou lather on some sauce, then
make maybe a little homemadecoleslaw and some big beans and
you have added and that's thatis my brisket recipe.
Paul Simkins (46:27):
That sounds terrific too. So again, you mop
it with that sauce. You said asyou're cooking it.
Unknown (46:33):
Yeah, yeah, that adds a good flavor to it. And that that
salt kind of tends to caramelizeyou know, as you're smoking it
over time. And the big thingsthat kind of differentiate it is
rubbing it with that peanut oilthat that definitely adds a
great layer of complexity. Andthen really given the brisket
(46:53):
the time. So after you rub it,just putting it in the fridge
for 24 hours. That really letsthe so what happens is the meats
actually sucking in some of theflavors from the world. And it
really penetrates the meat andit goes a long way in kind of
getting a good barbecue.
Paul Simkins (47:09):
Exactly. Sounds great. All right. Justin Perry's
brisket. Barbecue brisket. Allright. All right. So my gift.
Thanks, Justin. So thank you somuch. Thanks. So tell us right
now, what is it you're workingon right now that you're excited
about?
Unknown (47:25):
Yeah. So the big thing right now that we're seeing is
companies are trying to fight instates in states that are still
open and not locked down, thatpeople are trying to find unique
ways of getting people intotheir businesses or getting a
message of hope out there orgetting an advertising message
out there. And, and lasers arereally a phenomenal tool to do
(47:48):
that. Because we could project acorporate logo or text, or a
slogan, we can project thismiles away. And we can make a
projection hundreds of feet wideand hundreds of feet tall, using
using a number of lasers incombination. So lasers for
projected digital advertising isbeen a segment of our business
(48:12):
that has just exploded. Youthink about how many times in a
day you're getting anadvertisement fed to you,
probably so often, you don'teven recognize him anymore. I
mean, I mean, you got ads beingthrown at you every which way.
But I tell you what you will,you will recognize and what will
catch your catch your eye isseeing a giant laser projection,
I mean, it's impossible to miss.
And so it's it's a great vehiclefor companies to really shoot,
(48:36):
you know, get a message outthere or display their corporate
logo on a very massive scale forin many cases cheaper than you'd
be able to do with withtraditional forms of
advertising. And then the otherone is really these driving
laser shows that those, it'sbecome a great way of allowing
people to safely get together inthe comfort of their own
(48:58):
vehicle. So everything safe, butyou can enjoy an outdoor event
and a beautiful laser lightshow. So those become very, very
popular use of our technology aswell.
Paul Simkins (49:11):
Great. So if someone's interested in hearing
more about that, how do they getahold of you?
Unknown (49:15):
Yeah, they can check us out. go directly to the website,
www dot get a laser.com.
Terrific.
Paul Simkins (49:24):
Well, again, William better. And Justin
Perry, thanks for being on theshow today. And again, everybody
reach out to that because theydo some terrific stuff there.
And they've really have a greatfocus on how to take care of
their people, which makes allthe difference in the world.
Thanks. Thank you. Well, that'sabout all we have time for this
(49:46):
week, folks. Until next time, goout and be the leader. You were
meant to be.
The tech leaders toolbox podcast is brought to
(00:02):
you by Paul Simkins and thebully LEAD program, focusing on
helping tech leaders like you,and the frustration of low
performing teams, and losingexcellent employees, so they can
increase productivity by 50%. Gohome on time, and sleep better
at nights.
Paul Simkins (00:23):
Hello, and welcome to the tech leaders toolbox. I'm
Paul Simkins. And we're herebecause how you lead today
determines how your teamsucceeds tomorrow. This is
Episode 51 of the podcast. Andone of the things I wanted to do
because we've been severalmonths now with the pandemic and
various levels have shut down.
And it becomes so discouragingfor leaders to wonder if there's
(00:46):
an avenue of there's a chance tosucceed here with all of this.
So I wanted to share a storytoday that I think is going to
help give you a little bit ofhope there. We're revisiting
someone who's been on thepodcast before. So I'm gonna be
revisiting with Bill Benner withpangolin laser systems, as well
as his chief operating officerJustin Perry. And they're going
(01:10):
to tell you how what they'vebeen doing during the pandemic
to keep on going. And I thinkit's going to give you some
ideas and give you some hope.
Unknown (01:21):
Are you ready?
Paul Simkins (01:22):
Let's go.
Well, my guests today are frompangolin laser Systems, Inc. I
have with me William Benner, thePresident and Chief Technical
Officer of pangolin lasersystems, as well as the Chief
Operating Officer Justin Perry.
Bill bynner, Julian bynner. He'sprovide the company provides
(01:45):
hardware, software and servicesfor laser light shows all over
the world. Chances are, have youseen an excellent laser light
show somewhere? It's a good betit was powered by pangalan. Now
bill holds numerous US andinternational patents. He's had
articles published in tradejournals and other publications.
And he's the co author ofmultiple books. Justin is the
(02:07):
chief technical officer andpartner in pangolin laser
systems. Starting with him in2008. He has a degree in
business administration from theUniversity of Central Florida,
and of course lives in theCentral Florida area. He is
married, he has an he mentionedhe has a daughter and another
one on the way. Very soon.
(02:31):
Justin has been featured inseveral trade journals. And
again, has been working withBill since 2008. Bill Justin,
welcome to the show.
Unknown (02:40):
Thanks getting a two for one special today, Paul.
Paul Simkins (02:42):
There you go.
Always like it. Great.
conversate always makes forgreat conversations. So again,
you know, I always like to startout because I love to hear
stories, the journeys of howpeople got where they are. Now,
Bill you've been on before. Andso so again, recap for those who
it's been a while recap forthose how you got where you are?
Unknown (03:01):
Sure, I'll give a very brief introduction, and then
kind of maybe up to the pointwhere we Justin joined the
company, and then he can kind oftake over from there. But yeah,
basically, you know, it's afunny story. It started as I was
in a rock band. In high schoolin college, I was a rock band.
And what was neat was all therock bands at the time, the
biggest acts of the blues arecalled Pink Floyd. And others
(03:24):
had lasers a part of their band,and I had already made a
lighting system for our band. Solasers was just to kind of the
next evolutionary step figuredwe'd need that. And it was very
difficult to accomplish. But yetI accomplished it. And the
lasers got lots of notoriety forthe band and for the, and we had
other bands come up to me andsay, Hey, How'd you do that?
Would you do that for us, too.
And the band just kind offizzled out, as normally happens
(03:46):
with bands, especially highschool and college bands. But my
love for lasers and musiccontinued. So I met another guy
who had similar interests inmusic and lasers. And we said,
hey, let's get together and makea business out of this. And we
did. And basically built thebusiness from an idea from,
from, you know, kind of whatsort of as a college project and
(04:07):
when neither of us have businessdegrees, and we're just really
passionate about the technologyand about what it does to
events, which is really spicesevents up and built the
business. And so my story and Ithink I covered this last time
to you was was kind of coming toa plateau right? I built the
business as good as I could. Butneither of us having me or my
(04:28):
foreign partner Patrick havingbusiness degrees, we didn't
really know what it was we dideverything we knew how to do but
it came to a plateau is about1.2 million. And and Justin
joined us in right around2008 2008 Yep, yeah. And and of
course, we just kind of gottenthrough is really the the
epicenter of the great financialcrisis, great time to join. But
(04:52):
nevertheless, Justin who doeshave a business degree and lots
of passion for business and Alot of drive, kind of took,
participate in the business andreally implemented many things
that have taken us from theplateau where i, where i had
accomplished too many boundsabove that. So I'll just kind of
(05:14):
that's where my story kind ofdoesn't really no, because I'm
still here, but that's whereJustin's joins. Uh, maybe this
would be a good time for Justinto introduce himself and tell
his story.
Well, thanks. Thanks for theoverview. Bill. It's a that was
definitely a good one. And yeah,my story's it's pretty
interesting. I, I had always hadan appreciation for lasers. And
(05:36):
when I was in college of blues,my sophomore year, Bill, you
would put a an advertisement upfor a position looking for
somebody with some accountingand marketing related
background. And I always had acuriosity for lasers played with
them as a young kid and lookedat the company. And it looked
really, really interesting andfit in line with what I was
(05:57):
studying. And then, as I camein, for my interview, I remember
we were it was right around thetime you guys were developing
beyond. And so as a part of myinterview process, I had to put
together a marketing plan of howwe would roll roll the product
out. And we ended up scrappingthat marketing plan. But it
allowed me to learn a lot moreabout the laser industry as a
(06:18):
whole. And what what fascinatedme about the industry at that
time as it was, it's a veryniche industry that was poised
for incredible growth. A laseras a technology in the lighting
industry was still not as widelyused as your classical le led
moving head fixtures and thingslike that. But it was an
(06:39):
emerging effect. So I kind ofsaw the the opportunity that it
has had as something that reallyintrigued me, like we could
really blow this thing out ofthe water, if we put the right
pieces and tools in place. Andanother big passion of mine had
always been internationaltravel, I, as a young kid always
had a desire to see the worldexperience different cultures
(07:01):
and stuff like that. And, andpangolin at the time had being
an international company. Youknow, I remember you told me one
day, Jeff, you know, Justin,you're going to love the travel
for the first couple of years.
And so we we started doing a lotof trade shows around the world.
And that kind of opened my eyesup as to what was happening in
the lighting, industry, and thenthe laser industry as a whole,
(07:22):
just getting to see how itworked in different in different
parts of the world. So, youknow, we started really growing
the software enter the businessby penetrating China, one of the
first strategies we employed waswas basically, you know, the
vast majority of projectors arebuilt in China, let's let's make
sure that they're they'repairing our control and software
(07:43):
together with that. And as aresult of that, we built up just
a monumental database, theproduct line really got into the
hands of a just a really largeamount of people and we built
our internal marketing databaseup to you know, I'd be, yeah, we
passed 70,000, we had, ourdatabase actually got so big
(08:04):
that the software we were usingcouldn't handle it anymore. And
we had to we had to migrate toanother smoker. So you know,
we're really, really proud to beable to get that many clients in
the database. And then fromthere, we started looking at,
well, how can we branch out alittle bit more and, and so what
we had realized from traveling,going to these trade shows and
(08:26):
stuff was you know, we we as asa control company did a lot of
the research and the developmentand Bill, I mean, you kind of
pioneered a lot of that stuff.
And then the people whomanufacture the projectors sell
this together with that, butthey make they're making the
lion's share, you know, they'remaking the lion's share of the
money. So, you know, it was kindof like, we did a lot of the we
(08:50):
did a lot of the research anddevelopment, you know, we're
doing the support, but theseguys are these guys are making
the lion's share, you can kindof think of it. Um, you know,
Intel sells the microprocessor,it's, it's inside of the
computer, but Dell is reallymaking a larger volume of that.
And, you know, so we kind of hada brainstorming session, we were
going to some masterminds, andwe're like, why don't we flip
(09:11):
the script? And, you know, we'vegot the database. You know, all
the clients that perform lasershows are in our database,
because they're using oursoftware. Why don't we Why don't
we try to consider selling theprojector to them as well. And,
and from there, we were at atrade show in, in Europe, and we
met a guy named do Sean, who wasthe sales manager at a factory
(09:32):
over there named kavon, inSlovakia, and they're based out
of Slovakia. So they had really,really high quality engineering
at an Eastern European price,but they didn't have a very big
customer base. And you know, sowe kind of explored the idea of
giving them some designs andideas for projectors that we
would then distribute to ourcustomer base and, and so that
(09:54):
kind of eventually evolved intoa division of pangalan that we
call pangalan lasers and at Thatthat division kind of exploded
as well. And so, you know, kindof the combination of that is,
is what's led us kind of wherewe are today. I mean, both
divisions of the company areeven in COVID times doing really
(10:14):
strong that's because we're sowell diversified. And then a lot
of you know the additionaldevelopments that you came up
with Bill with the the opticalscanning technology and stuff
like that this you know, we kindof are a one stop shop now we
can provide you offer on thecontrol hardware, the
projectors, the OEM componentsthat would go into a laser
projector, and it's just, it'sallowed us to really diversify
(10:36):
out and and so that's just kindof that's kind of my story as
how I evolved in the leisureindustry. Kind of where my
passion passion for it camefrom, I just always loved the
idea of being able to take to bein an industry that was on the
brink of growing andyou know, kind of exploding and
laser light shows havedefinitely exploded over the
(10:57):
years and popularity and stuff.
And, and being able to operateon an international scale and
bring a product to aninternational marketplace. It
was always fascinating to me andpangolins certainly provided a
vehicle that allowed for that tohappen. So
Paul Simkins (11:14):
great. So So basically, at this point, y'all
manufacture the hardware youdevelop and produce the software
and, and even program thesystems, correct?
Unknown (11:27):
Yes, that's right. So we actually manufacture the guts
of the projector right here inour offices in Sanford, the
actual things that go into this,which is usable, not only a
laser projector, but also otherthings like 3d printers and self
driving cars. These are ourother customers. And that's
further diversification of ourthing. The actual projectors
(11:48):
themselves are stillmanufactured in Slovakia, but
they use a lot of the componentsthat we manufacture here in, in
Sanford, and then they ship itback here to Sanford and we we
go all around the world. So it'skind of a funny, funny thing.
It's sometimes even Ilan says,you know, you take an atom out
of the ground and how many timesthat Adam goes around the world
(12:09):
before finally reaching andcustomer. It's funny. Yeah.
Okay.
Paul Simkins (12:15):
So a couple of things that you talked about
there that resonated me. Well,the first is just kind of an off
note. You talked about thetravel and getting the
opportunity to travel and Billsaying, Yeah, you're gonna get
sick of it real soon. I know,company. I
Unknown (12:27):
know. He didn't even say that. But you picked it up.
Yeah, yeah. You're gonna be inthe beginning as a company,
Paul Simkins (12:34):
I worked for MIT several years ago, I had the
opportunity to travel a lot as atrainer doing because we had
partners overseas. And it wasthat same thing. At first. It
was like, exciting, great. I'mgoing to Hong Kong, I'm going to
Singapore, I'm going to KualaLumpur and Australia and wow.
And then, and then after awhile, I'm going like, Oh, I'm
going to Hong Kong again. And itjust you know, especially going
(12:56):
by yourself, it gets old.
Unknown (12:58):
And it's all the things that happen on a plane like
screaming kids, your seatkickin, and sometimes you have a
smelly person sits next to you.
And you know, it's just usexperience all kinds of stuff.
So it's, it makes the trip notso fun.
Paul Simkins (13:13):
Yeah, that typically overseas trips are
almost always packed plans are
Unknown (13:17):
Yeah, it's not where you're sitting. It's us sitting
around you. That's my Yeah,
Paul Simkins (13:22):
I made the mistake my first trip overseas, where I
took the window seat. Mm hmm.
And the person's noses, youknow, 747 and said, the people
sitting in the middle seat andon the emcee, both basically
slept the entire trip. Soanytime I needed to get up, I
had to wake everybody up so Icould climb out. Yeah.
Unknown (13:46):
Yeah, yep.
Paul Simkins (13:47):
So now the other thing that that resonated me
with Bill, you talked about howyou hit that point where base
with your background andknowledge. You and your partner
took it as far as you could go?
Sure. And and I like that,because you know, one of the
things we talk about inleadership with john Maxwell
calls the law of the lid. Yeah,which is that an organization
(14:08):
can only grow as far as ourleadership lid will take it.
Unknown (14:13):
Exactly.
Paul Simkins (14:15):
And the only way to take it further is we have to
expand our lid and some andquite often that's by knowing
who to bring in. Sure. That'spart of what made Ray Kroc had
success with McDonald's. Yes,absolutely. Knowing the people
to bring in so that it's greatthat you recognize that and
we're able to act upon that.
Unknown (14:33):
Yeah. together at the same time, one of them was
meeting Justin and bringing himon and another was meeting
Steven place and starting to hismasterminds with Justin and then
we we implemented the weimplemented this is he either
one of these wouldn't havegotten us where as wells but the
combination of having somebodypassionate and had a business
(14:56):
background like Justin and and alot of drawing To implement
these things, because any ofthese mastermind guys will tell
you it's nothing withoutimplementation ideas without
implementation is just dreams. Ithink you also to Phil, you
always, you've always put a bigemphasis on continued education,
you know, kind of a Kaizenapproach of constantly constant
(15:17):
improvement, constant learning.
And and so one of the thingsthat bill always made a point
was every year we were going togo to a mastermind for a while
it was Steve places, we we wentto my some Mike cleanings
related stuff. Nick nanton, youwent to the wakeup word? Yeah,
we did. I did the wakeboardthing. But he, he's always
(15:38):
really made that kind of aprinciple within the company
that continued education,constant learning is a core
value in the core principlehere. And, and always, you've
always done an amazing job ofjust providing the resources and
capability to be able to dothat. And I think, you know,
we've always looked at continueeducation, education through the
lens of we want to be thedumbest guys in the room, for
(15:58):
sure. You know, if we're, we'rethe smartest guys in the room,
we're in the wrong room, we wantto be the dumbest guys in the
room. And, and so we've always,you know, I think part of the
success that we've had too, isjust constantly seeking out new
paths and new avenues to tocontinually educate ourselves
and put ourselves intouncomfortable scenarios and
uncomfortable situations whereit kind of forces growth. So
(16:21):
then definitely think that'sbeen something very much instill
a value you've instilled intothe company. That's certainly
contributed to the success aswell. Yep.
Paul Simkins (16:32):
Excellent philosophy, you know, is that
the old saying is if you know,if you're, if you're not
uncomfortable, you're notgrowing? Yeah. All right. So I
wanted to go back, because whenBill and I talked back in the
spring, the COVID, was reallyjust starting to hit hard. And
we hadn't really felt theeffects from it. But when we
talked the other week, you didstart feeling the effects of it,
(16:54):
but you did some things. And Iwanted you to talk about, again,
how it impacted you and what aresome of the things you've been
doing to deal with that? Sincethe spring?
Unknown (17:04):
Yeah, maybe I'll talk from a kind of a high level
approach of the company and youcould talk kind of specifically
about the marketing and thatsort of thing. So so what we did
was it did impact us, you know,be basically the lockdowns,
especially, which, you know,even the World Health
Organization now says is a badidea. You know, it's, it was a
(17:25):
bad idea, right. So iteverything stops, right. So now
at the time, it was a lot oflayoffs, Justin, and I know a
lot of people got laid off rightaway, you know, we've been and I
felt really bad about that. Ifelt like corporate america
really let people down. And Ididn't want to do that we had
plenty of cash in the bank, wehave the way we way we run the
company is to have cashreserves, you know, we're not in
(17:48):
debt. Right. So we it's anotherthing to whose credits kind of
different about us fromcorporate America, right? So so
I knew that basically, even ifwe had zero revenue coming in,
we could survive for a period oftime. And I was determined to do
that. So we kept all of our fulltime staff, we, we didn't cut
any hours, we didn't cut anypeople. And as soon as we could,
(18:09):
as soon as the lockdowns wereover, we brought everyone back,
because I could tell that peoplewere starting to get kind of
stir crazy, you know, it's likepeople, they need to have social
interaction. So we brought themall back. And so so that was one
thing. And it was all done onprinciple, not because we had to
have it not because we needed toproduce this product, we kind of
didn't, you know, in themeantime, when we were
producing, we had everyonecontinuing to do the job, just
(18:31):
like they always had. And withthe purpose of now we're
building up stock, right? So nowit actually puts us in a better
position. Because we can say, inan industry, which typically
delivers in 11 to 16 weeks, wecan say delivering from stock,
which we could do now. Right? SoSo basically, we've used the
opportunity to kind of makeourselves stronger in that way.
(18:53):
Plus, it's made the communitystronger and so much that you
know, all the employees reallyappreciate still having jobs in
not not having their hours cut,and appreciate it and they kind
of appreciate that we kepteveryone together kept everyone
interacting weekly had a coupleof outage outings and a team
building exercise and stuff likethat. So So basically, kind of
(19:14):
from a from a companyperspective, I just wanted to
keep things going. And only keepthings going from the business
standpoint, but keep keep theinternal machine going. Right
just because it's it'simportant, you know, people,
people, that the people who workhere, our customers to the
extent that we have been able tokeep our customers lives, the
(19:35):
same and we have to some extent,but to the extent that we can
keep everything the same. Wewanted to keep everything kind
of just just to maintain thesanity. You know, there's been
so much drug abuse and alcoholabuse and spousal abuse and all
kinds of other things, you know,just because things are going
crazy. And fortunately, wewithin our sphere of influence.
(19:59):
We've been able to To keep,we've been able to really push
all that stuff away because it'sjust Alexei it's all been on
principle, it's all been on,we're going to do this, we this
is what we're going to do, we'renot going to, we're not going to
participate in this in thisviolent basically that's it I
said no virus will stop us thatwas the thing. That was kind of
(20:21):
our foundational thing. So nowthat was that's kind of sets the
business aside, that was kindof, like I said, just on
principle, but but now I'll turnit over to Justin talk about
kind of what we did from abusiness standpoint to keep
money coming in and and to keepand, you know, some expenses
were cutting, but I'll turn itover to him to talk about kind
(20:43):
of the marketing the businessand, and how it has all played
out forus. So on the employee note to
Bill, you, he definitely did Imean, he, Gary Vaynerchuk, made
it made a comment and and we hadtalked about this earlier in the
year, but you work for youremployees. And he basically
said, if you if you take themindset work for you, you're
going to lose your key players,you work for your employees, and
(21:06):
you, you definitely did late laythat foundation of that
principle across the company.
And I think from a leaderleadership point of view, when
the team saw that saw you doingthat, I think, I think they
appreciated it. And itdefinitely was a bit
inspirational and a time whereyou do talk to a lot of people
and you hear your buddies aregetting laid off and stuff like
(21:26):
that, when people see that, hey,you know, the founder of our
company is actually figuring outhow we can organize a team
building for us. I think thatthat that resonated a long way.
Yeah, from a businessstandpoint, we, um, so it's
funny, when the pandemic hit, Iwas in the middle of a podcast
called think like a CEO. And itwas from the founder of Keller
(21:48):
Williams. And so we're listeningto that podcast. And he said, in
times of crisis, you want torevert back to your ABCs. And
what he meant by that was, firstthings first, go through all
your expenses, go through yourcredit card statements and start
to label stuff in order have aBNC a meaning I have to bear
this expense, this is a thiscost is a cost of doing business
(22:11):
that we cannot go without yourbees are things that help the
company operate better, but arenot necessarily required. And
C's are things that are a luxuryto have, but certainly do not
help the company required. Andeven goes down to DS where I
don't know what this is, what isthis expense? And why are we
(22:32):
paying for it. And basically,you eliminate your DS, you
eliminate your C's, and youevaluate your B's and you keep
your Ace and so we kind ofstarted there. And it was an
interesting exercise because itallowed us to see, you know, why
do we have this subscription forthis service, you know, are we
are we actively using that isthat active actively providing
value to us, as well as to ourclients. And so we were able to
(22:56):
cut a lot of our overheadexpenses down to just the core,
the core things that we really,really did, did need for
operational purposes. And thatfreed up a little bit of cash
flow, to invest into things thatdo make a lot of money. So we,
you know, we cut someoperational expenses, but then
we took some of those savingsand invested them in a new CRM
(23:18):
and an automation marketingsoftware. We invested a lot a
large amount of money into toonline advertising. So Well, a
lot of companies were cuttingtheir ad budgets, we actually
kind of doubled down on that.
And, you know, the interestingthing is if people do their
homework on on ad costs is thereover the pandemic advertising
costs have gone down, not up.
(23:40):
You know, Facebook's andGoogle's realize that small
businesses are a large, a largeadvertising block for them. And
and they did reduce a lot of theadvertising costs and provided
some incentives for for peopleto advertise. So we've kind of
doubled down on the advertising,and actually increased our
budgets there. So we kind ofpushed on to the throttle from
(24:01):
that respect rather than heldback. And, and then from an
operational standpoint, we kindof looked at every process
inside of the company from ouradministrative processes to our
shipping and receiving processesto our repair processes. Where's
Where are things broken? WhereWhere can they be fixed? Where
can we automate, where can weimprove it? So we spent a lot of
(24:23):
time doing that, as well ascross training employees on
different processes andprocedures within the company.
And kind of going forward fromthere, one of the it's something
we've always wanted to do andand in all fairness, we're not
done with this project yet. It'sstill an ongoing process
project, but was internalcompany documentation. Right? So
(24:44):
so one of the dreams is that oneday, one day the company will
operate like a McDonald's stuff,right? We will be that efficient
and that that will documentedthat I could bring somebody in
off of the street and have themtrained and ready to go in a
week. You know, Ready to go in aweek. And with as complex as our
business, our operatingbusinesses operating
(25:05):
internationally, it's tough toget new new staff trained and
stuff like that. So we'reinvesting a lot of time into
create, using software liketrain Yule, to create video
tutorials for companyprocedures. Instead of having a
manual, we actually have videotraining tutorials on how to
perform different functionsacross the company. So that's,
(25:26):
that's been another big, bigthing we did over throughout
COVID. Just Just to make thebusiness operate, operate a
little bit better.
And then finally, we actuallyincreased our marketing and so
much as re optimizing ourwebsites, building new websites,
improving improving thefunctionality of the websites,
(25:48):
how they operate, how theyintegrate with the CRM, how they
integrate with the accountingsoftware. Just just really taken
a bird's eye view to to how doesour How does our machine work?
There's a great book I'drecommend for anybody who
listens, listens to the podcast.
And it's from Ray Dalio, andit's called principles. So if
you don't know who Ray Dalio is,he's the founder of Bridgewater
(26:10):
associates is the world'slargest privately held hedge
fund. And he's an amazing,amazing businessman. And he
says, you know, you really gotto look at your, your business
like a machine, and how do I oilthe machine? And how, you know,
if something breaks in aprocess, what broken my machine?
And so we kind of looked at thebusiness from from from that
(26:31):
view? And how do we make thismachine more efficient? You
know, how, how do we how do wego from from driving a truck to
driving a Tesla, you know, and,and that, that those exercises
definitely did help. You know,they've improved processes here,
they've improved productivity.
And I think when when eventuallythings do get back to normal,
(26:53):
we'll really be poised to, totackle the market in a much,
much more effective way.
And in all the cases, he said,we even mean, just, I met all
the employees, and I endedbecause the point was, is that
although we kept our staff, thepoint wasn't, okay, we're gonna
keep paying you for do nothing.
It's what I said is all thepains in the butt that you've
(27:13):
experienced all the lack offixtures, all this, anything, it
was a pain in the butt, now isthe time to fix those main
divots. Now that we don't knowthat we're not busy actually
making product for thecustomers, let's fix anything,
it was a pain in the butt. Sothat one, when it does turn out
that now it's time to turn onthat switch and start producing
and we're going to be able to doit better. Because we did now
(27:34):
Now we got time to deal with thepain. When we're cranking we
don't have the time to deal withit. Now we got to deal with and
and fortunately for us that timedidn't last very long. It's like
it for myself as a as a as a newproduct seller. I thought, Well,
finally, now we're gonna getsome time to really work on some
new things. And, and that onlylasts for about two weeks for
(27:55):
me, and then I had to get backin back in motion yet. But yeah,
everybody in the companyparticipated in improving
everything about the company.
Paul Simkins (28:06):
Right? Well, what I like I hear about that, and
is, you know, first of all,again, that from the beginning,
it was your commitment of wedon't want to get rid of
anybody, we're gonna look forways to keep everybody. But not
only that, when you looked atWell, you know, obviously,
somewhere we have to trimthings. But your your focus was,
(28:28):
was never really on trimmingemployees, it was always on what
else can we trim to try and getus through this time. And so
again, you very much kept thatfocus on boys. And not only did
you did you not just Well, we'rejust not just we're not going to
get rid of people. But we'regoing to kind of stagnate, you
said no, let's double you doubledown on your people as well as
(28:50):
on your processes and doubledown and said, Let's get people
cross trained. Let's keep themengaged. Let's keep them going.
Let's let's find creative waysto keep everybody working.
Unknown (29:02):
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.
Paul Simkins (29:05):
How has everybody responded to that? I mean,
Unknown (29:09):
Well, I'll tell you what, I think what we can do is
talk about, you know, the proofof the pudding is in the eating.
And, and the The bottom line isthat our business is down by
30%. That that's amazing.
Because we're, we're still debtfree. You know, and I tell you
why I'm looking at corporateAmerica right now. And it is
just debt out there. It's justamazing. So I think that we're
(29:31):
doing amazingly well for havinggotten through this pandemic,
you know, to be down only by 30%from a record year. 2019 was a
record year for us. Yeah. So andnot only
down by 30%. But if we look atthe industry that we're in, we
are in the entertainmentindustry. So our primary markets
(29:52):
are touring, festivals,concerts, you know, I mean,
those are the primary marketsthat we serve. And, and they got
obliterated, I mean, let's behonest, you know, COVID COVID
obliterated a lot of that stuff.
So for us to only be down 30% Ithink a we need to be very
thankful but be it's off, it'sdefinitely, it's definitely a
(30:13):
result of just the mindset thatwe've adopted as an organization
that we, you know, like BillBill said earlier, we are not
going to play by by this COVIDplaybook, we're going to write
our own playbook and we're goingto use the term often weather
the storm, you know, we're goingto weather the storm and, and
we've really, really done a goodjob at that. And, you know, in
(30:34):
our industry as well, we'vehelped other people become
creative, you know, not only inour own company, but you know,
driving laser shows Who wouldhave ever thought driving laser
shows is going to be a thing,right? You know, you're going to
drive into a parking lot whereyou'd see a movie, and they're
going to start putting on lasershows, this is actually emerging
as, as an incredibly popular wayof getting people out, you can
(30:59):
do it safely it you know, if youif you're following that, that
mindset, you can do these, youcan do a drive and laser show
very safely, everybody canmaintain a social distance. And
it brings joy and excitementinto people's people's lives
duringa time when they probably need
it. And this past weekend,Justin and a couple other people
on the team put on this thing.
(31:19):
Why don't you describe it?
Because I don't even know how todescribe this thing. It's
like a it's a blizzard? It's areverse. What do they call it?
Yeah, it was, it's called areverse parade. So So what so we
just moved out to the very lastkind of give you the, the full
full picture, we moved on to thevery, I'm an avid golf junkie.
So I'm out playing golf at thelocal club, and the I get paired
(31:40):
up with the city manager. Youknow, we're over 18 holes, we're
talking and he's like, you know,you do laser lightshow stuff.
And I was like, Yeah, well, webuild the equipment and stuff.
And he's like, man, we'reracking our brains about what to
do for our Christmas parade.
Because, you know, we can't havepeople congregating because of
the fear of COVID. And we'rejust trying to figure out what
(32:01):
we can do with this. So he said,they were thinking about this
concept called a reverse parade,where people will drive into a
park, and instead of the paradegoing by you, and you're
standing out on the streetcorner, you drive around the
parade. So, you know, he showedme some photos and some ideas.
And I'm like, you know, nooffense city manager, but this
is pretty boring on the image. Ithink after a year of isolation,
(32:26):
if people are gonna wait in lineto see this, they, they might
not come to the Christmas paradenext time you have one. And and
so we as a team, we all talkedabout it. And we're like, Well,
why don't we sponsor this thingas a way of showing the
community what we do bringingsome joy into the community and
stuff. And, and so we set it up.
(32:48):
So what they have is a big park,and it's got a, it's got a road
that kind of goes around thepark, and they set up these
flows, you know, yourtraditional parade floats
throughout that. And then at theend of the loop, there's a big
laser light show kind of as asthe finale. And, I mean, it was
so successful, we're stillgetting the worst of the wait
(33:09):
for the final count on thenumber of people that attended.
But it's well in the mat, well,above about 30,000 people were
sure of just based on the numberof cars that we counted average
number of people per cars. And Ithink I think the final tally
will surely be more than that.
And it was it's a backed up formiles, you know, just just miles
and miles and miles andparticipants. So, um, you know,
(33:31):
so if you had, again, justanother example of using
creative approaches to solveproblems, and, and we, you know,
we would have never imaginedthat, you know, driving laser
shows or reverse parade with alaser show, that this would be
an application for thetechnology, but you know, in
times of crisis, innovation,innovation, you know, it's kind
(33:53):
of key and thinking outside thebox is is key. And so it's you
know, it's working, it'sbecoming, it's definitely
becoming a thing, it'sdefinitely becoming a thing.
Paul Simkins (34:04):
So how did all these decisions that you made,
again, the focus on keeping yourpeople and not just keeping your
people but doubling down crosstraining and everything? How did
your personal or organizationalcore values drive those
decisions?
Unknown (34:22):
And you know, that you know, what's funny is what
you just said, is, Paul is is,is the is exactly what it is. In
other words, the core valuesdrove the decisions. I don't
know how they did, but they justthat's that's what happened.
That is an explanation of whathappened. What were you using?
(34:42):
What happened? Well, our corevalues drove the decision.
That's that is what happened. Idon't know. I don't know how it
happened. But that's I don'tknow how to explain how it
happened. But that is what yourquestion is what happened. You
know, your question is anexplanation of what happened is
The core values it is anapplication, you know, so in
when, when the crisis hit ourcore core values came out even
(35:06):
more is became even morepowerful or more more obvious,
more evident.
Yeah, I think, you know, in thatrespect, I think in times and
times of crisis, what you, youknow, what you truly stand for
will become apparent. And, andso, this was a, you know, it's,
(35:28):
it's been a tough year foreverybody. And, and you've
always told the people here atthe company, you know, I want
pangalan, to be a vehicle forgrowth for you, personally, I
want you to, you know, thecompany is here to help you as
an individual grow. And so 2020was a year where a lot of the
values that that as a company weprofess to stand for, got
(35:50):
tested. So, you know, it waskind of an opportunity for us to
put our money where our mouthwas where we where are we going
to stand behind the core valuesthat we profess, we stand for?
Or are we going to make the easydecision and just start laying
people off and doom and gloomand what was me, and, and we
stood behind the laurels, and westood behind the value system
(36:11):
that that that exists within thecompany. And and it was a test
of that. And I think I thinkthat we've passed the test, I
think that we've proven to ourteam and to the industry that we
we stand behind the value systemthat we profess to believe in,
it was interesting poll is thatthe I was in a kind of a it was
(36:31):
one of these zoom meeting typethings between a bunch of
companies and that and basicallyour collective clients. And you
know, I gave a presentation, andin my presentation I showed no
virus will stop us. And then ourcompetitor did a presentation
and he said something like,Well, how do you expect us to do
anything? There's a pandemic,right? I'd much rather be us
(36:53):
than them right now. We're doingpretty well. I think that they I
mean, they got it, they wereamazed that they're in business
just because of if that's yourattitude, how am I supposed to
do anything, there's a pandemic,how am I suppose it is a, always
a victimhood, but it was like,it was it was self defeatist.
(37:13):
Right? It was self defeatist. Soit was, it was a big stark
difference between ourpresentation and our attitude
that we projected. And there's
Paul Simkins (37:25):
I love how you knew what your non negotiables
were with all of this, and youstuck with it. Yeah. And
committed to it. That's great.
All right. So finally, so what'sone tip or one thing a leader
can do or apply today? To addvalue to their team?
Unknown (37:42):
What would you say?
Just, you know, I'm gonna goback to the, to the discussion
that, that I think that thewhole conversation has evolved
around, it's your value system,I think one of one of the best
things a leader can do is knowwhat their own principles and
value system is, you know, and,and it sounds kind of corny. But
But every mastermind that we goto the real leaders in the
(38:03):
group, I always hear them saythe same thing. You need to, you
need to have a value system, youneed to have principles, and you
need to be working for somethingbigger than yourself. Because if
you're just working foryourself, eventually you're
going to lose motivation. But ifyou have a larger purpose and
and a larger value system and alarger set of principles, it's
bigger than just you as oneperson is and
(38:28):
communicate that to the team.
Yeah. team have that. Yeah, thatthe whole thing is bigger than
the team. Exactly.
Yeah. And and so i think i thinkit's a it's a great exercise for
anybody who's in a leadershipbased position to take take some
time, you know, we're going intoa new year, take some time on a
quiet evening and write downwhat your values are as a human
(38:50):
being and what your principlesas a human being are, and try to
live live by those laurels. Makesure to communicate. Yeah.
Paul Simkins (39:01):
Excellent. Great.
Thank you both William better,Justin Perry. Thanks for being
on the show.
Unknown (39:06):
Thank you, Paul.
Producer (39:09):
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(39:31):
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Paul Simkins (39:38):
All right, and we're back and of course this
part of the show one of myfavorite things to do because I
love outdoor cooking. I do allkinds of outdoor cooking. I've
got a smoker I've got a grill.
Dutch ovens and being involvedin the scouting program, do a
lot of camping and cookingoutdoors over open fire and with
coals and Dutch ovens and alland so I love doing this so
much. I've actually created afew Facebook group called smokin
(39:59):
dash, and on the smoking dashFacebook group me and all of my
friends who are other also fansof outdoor cooking. We share
recipes we share what we'redoing this weekend, what we're
working on, our everybody likesto show off pictures of their
cookers and all that and talkabout all the wonderful things
they can do. And so I like toshare a outdoor cooking recipe
(40:20):
in every episode of the show.
And I also make that recipeavailable out on the smoke and
ash Facebook group. And when Ihave guests, I like to invite
them if they have a favoriterecipe to share, to share that
recipe with the group as well.
And Justin, you said you had agreat recipe that you wanted to
share with us today.
Unknown (40:41):
Yeah, so I've recently joined the the smoker
brotherhood and I bought myselfa kamado grill. And I've been
fascinated with it ever sincesince I purchased it. And many
moons ago before I was a marriedman, I dated a girl up in North
Carolina and I had also fallenin love in that period of my
(41:02):
life with that North Carolinavinegar based barbecue sauce.
And so when I got the tomato, Istarted reading, reading up on
briskets, and how difficult theyare to cook and you know, you
kind of have to break the meatdown and all these different
things. And so I read a lot ofdifferent strategies and ideas
about how to cook a brisket andthen kind of played on my own
(41:24):
experience having gone up toNorth Carolina and having a real
passion for that North Carolinastyle vinegar based barbecue and
I kind of melded all the thingstogether. And so so the recipe
kind of goes like this is um, goget it you know, you go and get
a good sized brisket. If you canfind the USDA prime version of
the brisket, it will make anexponential difference in the
(41:47):
quality of the final cook. Andso I highly recommend Sam's Club
they have USDA prime beef overthere. Many times it's going to
be cheaper than your localsupermarkets choice based beef.
So prime beef obviously being amuch higher grade a much higher
quality. So try to find a primebrisket if you can. Once you get
(42:08):
it home, you're you're gonnawant to trim trim the fat off of
it, but leave about a quarterinch of that fat cap on the top
of it. But save those other fattrimmings they will come in
useful they will come and usefuldown the road. But you're going
to want to trim the brisketafter that. And then the next
stage is making your rub. Sodifferent people have different
(42:29):
flavor flavor palates. I've useda simple mix of garlic powder,
paprika, salt, pepper, a littlebit of cumin in there, a little
bit of cayenne pepper, because Ilike the spice. And then
sometimes I'll use a little bitof nutmeg in there to kind of
add another layer of complexity,get your rug going and then
really rub that into yourbrisket. And before you put the
(42:51):
rub on a little trick that Ilearned was to if you can get
peanut oil and rub the brisketwith peanut oil, and then put
the and then put the rub onafter that the rub is going to
stick to the meat a lot better.
And that peanut oil kind ofhelps just kind of helps
tenderize the beef a little bitit gives it a little bit of a
nutty flavor. And thatdefinitely tends to shine
(43:12):
through in the final cook. Soonce you've got your peanut oil
on and you've rubbed, you rubyour brisket down, you put it in
the oven or not in the oven inthe fridge, wrap it in saran
wrap and you want to let it sitfor about 24 hours. But after
that you're going to fire yoursmoker up you want to get around
to 25 to 250 put your brisket inthere and you're pretty much
setting it and forgetting it.
(43:33):
And then the next stage afterthat is making your your sauce
and so with the sauce, I like togo get a good tomato puree,
something that hasorganic if you can find it and
you don't want to have anypreservatives, no, you know No,
none of those ones that haveolive oil and salt and other
stuff just real raw tomato pasteare to make a tomato puree. And
(43:56):
then you're going to put sometomato paste in there. Then
after that, you're going to getsome apple cider vinegar and
you're going to add that applecider vinegar to that and the
rate the rations and the theportions that you're going to
you're going to use here dependon how many people you're making
it for. So it kind of variesdepending on how many people
(44:16):
you're making it for but applecider vinegar, then after that a
little bit of honey and if youcan get it molasses, a little
bit of mustard in there, salt,pepper, and then you're going to
whisk that all together. Andthen you've got you've got the
base of your sauce and you cankind of add add seasonings as
you like but that's really yourbase. And then once you have
that based on then you want toget a block of brown sugar and
(44:39):
crumble that in there and beginto whisk that in and sweet
sweeten it up to your desiredsweetness level and you kind of
have your base and then by atthat stage, probably about four
hours, four hours after you'vehad your brisket on the smoker
then you just give it a lightlittle mop and then close it
back up and keep smoking andthen About about every hour
(44:59):
after that, I give it a littlemop. Another trick that I've
learned is when you when youmake that brisket, if you take
some chunks of hickory wood ormesquite wood, and you soak
those in apple cider vinegarovernight and put them into the
smoker, when you put the brisketin, that just kind of adds
another level of complexity tothe brisket as well. So not
(45:23):
required, but kind of an extrastep that that really sweetens
things up. And then after thatevery hour, you're just mopping
your brisket mopping yourbrisket, mopping your brisket.
And I've kind of found, so I'mnormally doing about anywhere
between an eight to 10 poundbrisket. And I'll smoke that for
about 16 hours. Sometimes evenmore, you know, to the point
(45:46):
where on the outside it ischarred, I mean it is almost
black. And then when I bring itinside it is you will try to cut
it and it should just crumble.
It's almost just meltingtogether so it gets so tender
inside. And when you use thatPrime beef that that fat, that
(46:07):
fat just melts. And so you can'teven really slice it at that
point. It just becomes thiscrumbled beef brisket with a lot
of good fat in there. And thenyou lather on some sauce, then
make maybe a little homemadecoleslaw and some big beans and
you have added and that's thatis my brisket recipe.
Paul Simkins (46:27):
That sounds terrific too. So again, you mop
it with that sauce. You said asyou're cooking it.
Unknown (46:33):
Yeah, yeah, that adds a good flavor to it. And that that
salt kind of tends to caramelizeyou know, as you're smoking it
over time. And the big thingsthat kind of differentiate it is
rubbing it with that peanut oilthat that definitely adds a
great layer of complexity. Andthen really given the brisket
(46:53):
the time. So after you rub it,just putting it in the fridge
for 24 hours. That really letsthe so what happens is the meats
actually sucking in some of theflavors from the world. And it
really penetrates the meat andit goes a long way in kind of
getting a good barbecue.
Paul Simkins (47:09):
Exactly. Sounds great. All right. Justin Perry's
brisket. Barbecue brisket. Allright. All right. So my gift.
Thanks, Justin. So thank you somuch. Thanks. So tell us right
now, what is it you're workingon right now that you're excited
about?
Unknown (47:25):
Yeah. So the big thing right now that we're seeing is
companies are trying to fight instates in states that are still
open and not locked down, thatpeople are trying to find unique
ways of getting people intotheir businesses or getting a
message of hope out there orgetting an advertising message
out there. And, and lasers arereally a phenomenal tool to do
(47:48):
that. Because we could project acorporate logo or text, or a
slogan, we can project thismiles away. And we can make a
projection hundreds of feet wideand hundreds of feet tall, using
using a number of lasers incombination. So lasers for
projected digital advertising isbeen a segment of our business
(48:12):
that has just exploded. Youthink about how many times in a
day you're getting anadvertisement fed to you,
probably so often, you don'teven recognize him anymore. I
mean, I mean, you got ads beingthrown at you every which way.
But I tell you what you will,you will recognize and what will
catch your catch your eye isseeing a giant laser projection,
I mean, it's impossible to miss.
And so it's it's a great vehiclefor companies to really shoot,
(48:36):
you know, get a message outthere or display their corporate
logo on a very massive scale forin many cases cheaper than you'd
be able to do with withtraditional forms of
advertising. And then the otherone is really these driving
laser shows that those, it'sbecome a great way of allowing
people to safely get together inthe comfort of their own
(48:58):
vehicle. So everything safe, butyou can enjoy an outdoor event
and a beautiful laser lightshow. So those become very, very
popular use of our technology aswell.
Paul Simkins (49:11):
Great. So if someone's interested in hearing
more about that, how do they getahold of you?
Unknown (49:15):
Yeah, they can check us out. go directly to the website,
www dot get a laser.com.
Terrific.
Paul Simkins (49:24):
Well, again, William better. And Justin
Perry, thanks for being on theshow today. And again, everybody
reach out to that because theydo some terrific stuff there.
And they've really have a greatfocus on how to take care of
their people, which makes allthe difference in the world.
Thanks. Thank you. Well, that'sabout all we have time for this
(49:46):
week, folks. Until next time, goout and be the leader. You were
meant to be.
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