Advanced Manufacturing Breakthroughs to "Solve the Big Problems" - Bill Peter, Director for Advanced Manufacturing at Oak Ridge National Laboratory

Ready to hear some of the most cutting-edge advancements in 3D printing, bio-materials and smart systems? 

Matt Kirchner sits down with Dr. Bill Peter, Director of Advanced Manufacturing at Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL). From large-scale 3D printing to the use of bio-based materials, Dr. Peter is leading initiatives that are redefining the possibilities of manufacturing. He shares how ORNL is not just solving technical challenges but also reshaping the skills pipeline to meet the demands of tomorrow’s manufacturing jobs.

With a mission statement "solving the big problems," ORNL is exploring the convergence of technologies like machining, additive manufacturing, and smart systems. Discover how ORNL is addressing workforce gaps through cutting-edge training programs and collaborations with universities and industry leaders—all while bringing manufacturing innovations back to the U.S.

In this episode:

• How ORNL is 3D printing bio-based, locally sourced materials to construct entire homes
• The breakthrough that’s cutting waste in aerospace manufacturing from 90% to just 10%
• Why 3D-printed molds are slashing lead times for industries like boating and construction
• Using AI to spot defects & make adjustments in real-time during production
• How ORNL's partnerships are driving U.S. innovation in wind energy, machining, and carbon fiber

Quotable Moments:

"We’re trying to see where and how can we bring those [manufacturing components] back, making them affordable, while integrating smart manufacturing not just to large companies, but also small and medium enterprises."

3 Big Takeaways from this Episode:

1. Converging technologies are revolutionizing manufacturing: Advanced manufacturing is no longer about isolated processes. ORNL is pioneering the integration of machining, additive manufacturing, smart systems, and AI to create flexible, efficient production methods for everything from aircraft components to hydro dam turbines.
2. Sustainability meets innovation: ORNL’s work with bio-based and locally sourced materials is reshaping industries like construction and packaging. From 3D-printing entire homes to developing recyclable molds for industrial applications, the future of manufacturing is green, scalable, and efficient.
3. Preparing tomorrow’s workforce for multi-disciplinary roles: The next generation of manufacturing professionals will need to blend computational, hands-on, and problem-solving skills. Through programs like America's Cutting Edge and collaborations with institutions like the University of Maine, ORNL is setting a new standard for workforce development.

Resources in this Episode:

To learn more about Oak Ridge National Laboratory, visit: www.ornl.gov

More resources:

• ACE - America's Cutting Edge
• Manufacturing Demonstration Facility (MDF) at ORNL
• University of Maine's Advanced Structure and Composites Center (ASCC)
• Strati - The 3D

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having impact with workforcedevelopment, absolutely, and

(00:55):
having that impact on workforcedevelopment we all know is so
incredibly important, especiallyin this day and age when
manufacturers are looking forincredible talent and not always
finding it every place thatthey're looking. And so we've
got these huge opportunities foryoung people and people of all
ages to find great careers inadvanced manufacturing. And I
know you're doing just atremendous amount of work in
that space before we get intothat work, I want to ask you

(01:17):
this, and I know you've got aninteresting background. You grew
up all over the eastern UnitedStates. Tell us a little bit
about how did you learn thecraft of engineering. So

Bill Peter (01:26):
growing up, I actually had a huge interest in
building and construction. Mygrandfather was in
manufacturing, had runfacilities in Mexico, in the
Ohio area. That was one thingthat had really perked my
interest in the area. My dad hadalways been in business, and so

(01:47):
I always had this sort of splitscenario of, would I go into
business, or would I go intoengineering? I think I love
problem solving, though, and Ithink that's really what drew me
to the area. And one of thethings to me that I in
manufacturing, why it's drawn methat down that direction, is the
fact everything we touch everyday is made, and trying to

(02:09):
understand how, how those thingscome to be. And so that that
really led me down this, thispathway. You know, I

Matt Kirchner (02:14):
think a lot of times folks that maybe didn't
spend their time growing up inand around manufacturing as you
did, don't always have anappreciation for all the problem
solving that takes place inmanufacturing, all the
fascinating, different careeropportunities that they are in,
also the opportunities to portfrom maybe other disciplines
into manufacturing. So hereyou're somebody who is studying
civil engineering. And when Iwhen I think of civil

(02:35):
engineering, you know, you thinkof urban infrastructure, you
think of bridges, you think ofroads, those kind of things, and
through that fascination withmaterials and failure of
materials and so on, findingyour way into manufacturing,
where it interestingly enough,your grandfather spent his
career. It is fascinating to mehow people can find these
different routes into the worldof manufacturing. So that leads

(02:57):
to this opportunity with theUniversity of Tennessee, with
the Oak Ridge NationalLaboratory, which I understand,
is abbreviated O, R, N, L, isthat right? That is correct.
Being a federal laboratory, welove our acronyms, right?
Absolutely. Well. In education,we do as well. So you know, just
whether it's a show that we'reat, whether it's a trade
organization, whether it's aprogram, whatever they all have
letters, and in your case, orand also, we'll use that as the

(03:20):
acronym for the Oak RidgeNational Laboratory, tell us
about this, and specifically themanufacturing program in what
you're trying to accomplish.
Yeah. So

Bill Peter (03:28):
the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, we have a
significant amount of advancedmanufacturing research
activities, everything fromlooking at Battery fabrication
to how we could think aboutsubstitute materials for
critical materials to looking athow we recycle and look at
sustainability. Some of theareas, though, that we're

(03:48):
spending a lot of time in morerecently, are in areas like
composites and carbon fiberproduction, additive
manufacturing, machining, and infact, our program today is
really focused around smartmanufacturing automation
controls, using additivemanufacturing as a tool in the
toolbox. And how do we merge orconverge multiple manufacturing

(04:12):
technologies together to helpwith agility? I love

Matt Kirchner (04:15):
that way of looking at it. And you know, if
you look 1015, maybe 12 yearsago, and everybody was getting
excited about 3d printing,additive manufacturing, and a
lot of manufacturers were havinga hard time finding where the
overlap was, or is this reallygoing to replace things like
machining or metal stamping, orwhat have you? And and our
message was always, look, we'renot going to replace those
technologies, but there are waysto augment it, through things

(04:37):
like work, holding finding newapplications for materials,
maybe things that we can't do incertain metals that we're able
to do, for instance, in carbonfiber, 3d printing. And I think
we're at a point now whereadditive has found its place in
manufacturing, and that's areally, really exciting time to
be in the world ofmanufacturing, as we see these
emerging technologies. You alsomentioned all the different
applications that you'reinvolved in. So I think about

(04:59):
every. Thing from whether it'scomposite materials and carbon,
whether it's additivemanufacturing. You mentioned
battery technology as well. Hiton that just briefly, especially
in this age where we're tryingto figure out EV in the
automotive space, where we'retrying to figure out energy
storage and a lot of differentspaces and alternative energy,
for example, what are you doingon the battery

Bill Peter (05:17):
side? So in the battery, Oak Ridge, for quite
some time, has worked on thingslike lithium ion I think there's
two different approaches. One onhow we look at transportation,
and coming up with batteriesthat have a smaller volume as
well as way less and are moreaffordable, sure, and then on
the stationary side, andthinking about large batteries.
And so we're doing a lot of workin areas like sodium ion

(05:39):
batteries, solid statebatteries, that is where we're
starting to think as we goforward and start looking at
both the structure as well asenergy storage. Can you start
combine those into the samematerials as you start to
fabricate them, as well as areaslike flow batteries, which make
a lot of sense as we startthinking about building
construction and trying to lookat stationary type of energy

(06:02):
storage. So

Matt Kirchner (06:03):
really exciting time. I didn't realize you were
that deep into the batterystuff. And when you mentioned
that, I was like, oh, that'sjust another application for
some of these emergingtechnologies on the material
side. That didn't occur to me.
So thanks for filling us in onthe I also want you to fill us
in on the ManufacturingDemonstration Facility called
the MDF, of course, anotheracronym for the ORNL, yes, but I
know you're doing a ton ofcutting edge research in this

(06:23):
space, and I know our audiencewould love hearing about maybe a
recent breakthrough that you'veseen and as a result of the work
that you're doing with the MDF.
So

Bill Peter (06:32):
I'll start a little bit with the mission we're
trying to go through and look tosee, how do we help with the
domestic supply chain,explicitly, as we look at clean
energy, a lot of our components,as we think about energy
systems, transportation,buildings, even as we look at
batteries and the grid, a lot ofthose are fabricated overseas.

(06:54):
And we're trying to see whereand how can we bring those back,
making them affordable. We'realso trying to think about
higher performance and alsointegrating smart manufacturing,
not just to large companies, buthow do you get that integrated
into small, medium enterprisesand really be able to help be
competitive in that space? And Istart with that because I think

(07:15):
it'll make sense as we startlooking at some of the
breakthroughs as we've beenworking inside that area, one of
the areas that we've spent a lotof time lately is looking at
large scale metal printing. Wealready have been working
heavily looking at large scalepolymer printing. In fact, at
the entrance of IMTS is thisstrategy, which was something we

(07:37):
did back in 2014 a decade ago.
Huh? Create a whole industryjust on thermoplastic printing
that usually has a fiberincluded in it to make large
polymer parts, got up to about500 pounds per hour deposition
rates in that Wow. We're nowgetting into a lot more work in
metal printing, and have workedwith companies like Lincoln
Electric and others to look atdeposition GKN for titanium,

(08:00):
looking at Laser wire, LincolnElectric for looking at ARC wire
type materials. In fact, we'venow started taking that and
going into that whole idea ofdifferent tools in the toolbox.
One of the things we're showinghere is the future foundries is
a convergent manufacturingplatform where we have

(08:21):
machining, then we'reintegrating it with directed
energy deposition, or metalprinting, with metrology and
with localized heating on apallet system. Okay, the whole
basis here is Federation of thesystems getting it so each of
those systems are talking to oneanother, and how do we automate

(08:42):
and help with agility? So if Ilook at low production parts,
how do we make it where it'sfeasible to go into low
production parts and be able toautomate those systems to work
together? Yeah,

Matt Kirchner (08:56):
those are all things that are fascinating to
me. And of course, our listenersare accustomed to hearing is
talking about kind of those lowvolume, high mix manufacturing
applications which are muchharder to automate than a
situation where you're makingthe same part over and over and
over again. So I can totally seewhere you've got the combination
of additive metal, 3d printing,you've got machining, you've got
a palletizing operation and soon. What's the application for

(09:19):
something like that? So give usyou know, you're working with
GKN and Lincoln Electric. Thoseare some pretty well recognized
organizations in manufacturing.
What's the end use product? Orwhat are you hoping that would
come from something

Bill Peter (09:29):
like so there's a whole range, and it goes
everything from like with GKN,we've been working on titanium
for aircraft components. Okay,most people don't recognize as
you get on a plane, there's beenan increasing amount of titanium
that complements the carbonfiber, light weight and high
strength is that kind of thethere's a concern on galvanic

(09:49):
corrosion from the composite

Matt Kirchner (09:52):
plating guy. So you're starting to talk my
language absolutely

Bill Peter (09:55):
and so as we've done that, though, titanium is
usually at very low. Yields.
It's between 10 to 15% yields.
But you do heavy machining, andpart of it's because the
complexity of the parts thatyou're fabricating. We take
milled product or forged sheet,plate, what have you, and then
go through and machine out thefinished part with additive. We

(10:16):
can get much hiring yield. Soyou can get up to 7080, 90%
yield. So the companies arespending a lot less time on
machining and having a wholebunch of chips that you are you
talking about? Production yield,actually, material yield. Got
it. I wanted to clarify, just tomake sure we appreciate that
clarification. Yeah, it'smaterial yield. So they

(10:37):
typically call it buy to flyratio, which you usually end up
with a 12 to one buy to fly. 12pounds are purchased. One flies
away, which is very pictorial.
As you think about this, we'rereally trying to go through and
see how we drive that efficiencylower the overall cost for those
aircraft components, at the sametime of going through and
thinking about energy use andefficiency as we do that Sure.

(11:01):
Another application though, inthe steel is we have all types
of metal component tree, and oneof the big issues we see today
is as I start looking at whetherit's wind energy, whether we're
looking at nuclear energy, andtrying to think about reactors,
a lot of these large metalcomponents we're pulling or

(11:22):
having to bring overseas, andthere's lead time issues.
There's a lot of challenges aswe try to think about how to
innovate and make them better.
And so we're spending a lot oftime in looking at, how do we
fabricate these large metalcomponents, typically steels,
that we can go through and putan application at a lower cost,

(11:43):
and to that discussion we hadearlier, it may be that I take a
cast product and add on to thatcast product as we need to
fascinating. One of the mostinteresting projects we have
that's coming up is one that inwhich we're working with a
pretty large team, voice huntingand Ingles arc welding and going

(12:06):
through and actually buildingFrancis runners. What's a
Francis runner? It's a complexturbine that goes into a hydro
dam. Okay? And our access tothose are limited in the US.
It's hard to produce these inthe US, and so we're trying to
augment to see where and howwe're totally building this one
actively. It's going to bebetween a 35,000 to 70,000 pound

(12:30):
part. Wow. But the idea is tolearn from this and understand
where should we be usingadditive with other technologies
to be able to build thosecomplex shape so it

Matt Kirchner (12:39):
almost feels like, in some cases you're
trying to, you know, youmentioned now, I think at least
three times in manufacturing andproduction and engineering
that's taking place offshore,right? And we're bringing that
back and trying to bring thatback to the United States, but
not necessarily bringing it backin the way that it's being done,
but but leap frogging thetechnology and finding new ways
to find applications or toproduce new applications for

(13:01):
things we've traditionally doneoffshore, doing them here in the
US, but doing them usingadvancing technologies. Is that
a fair assessment? That's a veryfair assessment. You know,
behind all this is the digitalbackbone to me, right? And it is
trying to understand where theproper technology comes in, and
how do I go through and use theinformation flow to better

(13:23):
assess the situation. So a lotof the things that you'll see
under our development arelooking at smart manufacturing,
how we extract data as we'rewe're actually producing these
parts right using machinelearning to very quickly be able
to go through and see, when arewe either out of geometry, when
are we going to have variousdifferent defects in the

(13:46):
component? And be able to figureout, can we actually get around
that and do real timemodifications, awesome to the
systems we're building? Yeah. SoI mean, it's the extension of
the whole industry, 4.0 concept,which we've been talking now for
789, years, maybe even longer,about smart sets of smart
devices, out on the out on theedge. They can think for
themselves. They can communicatewith other smart devices.
They're gathering tremendousamounts of data, more data and

(14:09):
manufacturing than we've everhad before in a lot of a lot of
folks that have kind of takenthat first step into smart
technology are like, Okay, well,that's awesome. I'm collecting
all this data. What am I doingwith the data? And what you're
telling me is that you're ableto use those sensors and devices
the data that they'recollecting. You're able to
acquire that data, create a dataset of some sort, and then
utilize artificial intelligenceand its subset machine learning

(14:31):
to find patterns in that data,to predict future failure, to
find anomalies in the processes.
Is that right?

Bill Peter (14:37):
That is correct. In fact, I'll give the example. In
powder bed. We have a softwarecalled Peregrine. Some powder
bed would be part of bed, metal,3d printing. Is that right?
Yeah, where we're either doingbinder, jet, laser, e beam,
you're taking a layer of powder,and you've either got an energy
source or essentially a resinthat you're going through and
building up your component layerby layer. One of the things.

(15:00):
That we've done is we'll usehigh speed near IR cameras as
you're building up those parts,and we can image the defects
real time as you're buildingthose up. And as we do that, we
can start to see little nuances,like maybe I have a parameter
difference here, or the slicingsoftware to dictate where that

(15:21):
beam goes, is changed, and beable to pick up those defects
they're coming up from those,those different anomalies. Very
cool. So it's almost like aborn, qualified type component.
I can give you the digital file,give you all the information of
what's happened to that partwhen I finish building the part.
Well,

Matt Kirchner (15:38):
let me ask you this out of curiosity, because a
lot of times, as we're workingand talking to manufacturers,
you know, they're understanding,I mean, in your case, you're
using, I'm sure, a lot ofdifferent sensors, devices,
cameras, gathering thisinformation. What's the machine
learning platform that you'reusing? I mean, as people think
about, you know, formatting itin Data Factory and using
something like Microsoft Azureto analyze that data, kind of at

(15:58):
the cloud level, what are youdoing with the

Bill Peter (16:01):
data? A lot of what we're doing is actually
homegrown and developed, andthen we're engaging industry as
we develop it. And part of thereason I bring that up is it's
tying in all the differentpieces. So we've built our own
slicer technology. We have over200 users now using the slicer

Matt Kirchner (16:21):
and slicer technology for our audience.
Just give them a quickdefinition. The

Bill Peter (16:24):
slicer is basically the software that basically
decides where and how the robotor the beam or the gantry is
going to go to layout or printthat component in additive
manufacturing got it and so asyou're developing that, and I
want to get key features orfeedback you want to integrate
these and in fact, I think oneof the strengths of the

(16:46):
laboratory we have, we have thefastest super computer, so we
spend a lot of time with data.
We can handle large amounts ofdata, fastest in the world,
fastest in the world, no way.
Wow, yeah. And we have advancedcharacterization and a lot of
materials background. So we'retaking those strengths together
to basically build tools that wecan go through and process this

(17:07):
data and see what's going on. Soa lot of it is built in our
core, at our place, and thenconnecting with industry on how
does this work, and how wouldyou start to implement it? Okay,
as as we go through that,though, we understand not
everybody has a super computerin their backyard, so trying to
understand how we go to loworder models and efficiency as

(17:31):
we do this, and that's where alot of the AI or machine
learning activities come from.
It, we do partner with othercompanies. In fact, we have over
280 partnerships with industry.
And so while a lot of the waywe're handling the data may be
at our own core activities, weare then looking to see how did

(17:52):
Kiwi work with other companiesand try their software, and how
it would connect with what we'rebuilding awesome.

Matt Kirchner (17:57):
And then the goal ultimately is to do you
commercialize the researchdirectly. Are you partnering
with other companies that areutilizing your learning or how
to kind of what happens next,all

Bill Peter (18:06):
above. So we're funded by the advanced materials
and manufacturing technologyoffice our Department of Energy.
They support our core research.
They also, each year, put about$2 million down for when a
company comes in looks at whatwe're doing, they can basically
go through and write upcollaborative research activity
with us. This has made itreally, really easy for

(18:28):
companies to come in and try outthe technologies that we're
developing. I'd say we haveunique relationships with the
equipment manufacturers we enterunder much larger collaborative
activities with those equipmentmanufacturers, where they
actually come into our facilitywork hand in hand with us. And
part of that is to try to makesure that when we finish the
activity, it is seamless in thetransfer of the technology. But

(18:53):
the nice part is you're buildingoff of that. I sort of see the
equipment manufacturers as theupstream. That means that
material providers, softwareproviders and end users can then
all go and start using thatequipment, technology and try
before they buy.

Matt Kirchner (19:13):
Yeah, I love that. And one of the reasons I'm
enjoying so much ourconversation here with Dr Bill
Peter, who is the Director ofAdvanced Manufacturing, should
say for advanced manufacturingat the Oak Ridge National
Laboratory is, you know, all theconvergence of different
technologies you've brought upalready. We've talked about
additive we've talked aboutsubtractive manufacturing,
meaning machining. We've talkedabout robotics and automation.

(19:34):
You're talking about slicing,you're talking about software.
We're talking about AI, we'retalking about machine learning
and all of these things that,for you know, quite honestly,
Bill, I've been saying for along time, we're going to
converge in the world ofmanufacturing, necessitating a
whole new type of worker inmanufacturing. All the things
that we've been predicting andtalking about are the exact
things that you're doing atORNL. And so I want to ask you

(19:55):
this. I mean, as you look to,you know, the next two to five
years for the American work.
Worker. And as you look tobringing manufacturing and all
these different applicationsfrom offshore into the United
States, which are, you know,it's great for employment, it's
great for our economy, it'sgreat for our national security,
it's really, really importantwork, but it's not a one sided
equation, right? We've got anobligation here in this country
to figure out what the nextgeneration of workers gonna do.

(20:17):
So not just an additive,although I want you to touch on
that. But as you look at theseconvergences of technology and
young people, or really anybodywho's interested in getting into
advanced manufacturing, how iswhat manufacturers, or for that
matter, those doing research inthe manufacturing space, how is
what they are looking for intheir next generation of team
members going to look differenthere in the next

Bill Peter (20:40):
several years? So I think the areas that I've
already started to see a changein is areas like computation,
mathematics, looking to betterunderstand trends that you see
within data. I think that's akey aspect that we're seeing,
that you know, when I was justgetting started was not

(21:01):
something it was something youcould do, and there was
modeling, but it was not a largearea of interest. To me,
something that has grownsubstantially, and I think
creates a whole bunch of of newinterest with that, I still
think you're going to haveproblem solving is still going
to be very key, for sure. Ithink as we, as we look at it,

(21:21):
the engineering backgroundmechanical engineers
understanding how things work,that's an important aspect.
Understanding your materials isstill a very important
discipline, but I think it'sreally that that idea of
understanding statistics,understanding computational
tools, is some that'll continueto increase and drive new, new

(21:43):
opportunity for students.

Matt Kirchner (21:45):
So let me ask you this. I mean, does that mean
that students need to be, youknow, in order to be successful
in manufacturing, need to befull on, like, master's degrees
in data science, or are therekind of some on ramps and off
ramps we can think about forpeople coming into manufacturing
at different starting points interms of what they need to know?

Bill Peter (22:02):
Yeah, obviously, I don't think all of them need to
have PhDs or masters in thatspace. I think it needs to be a
various set of skills. I dothink understanding interfaces
with that information issomething that will drive even
for those on the floor, you'llstart to see the scenario of
being able to visualize data andunderstand it real time, and how

(22:26):
that modifies the overallsystem. I think those will be
critical as we're starting toengage more and more of this
practice. I think there's plentyof applications, though, for
individuals that have that havegreat computer skills to get in
areas like modeling and otheractivities, seeing the
information and data, and maynot even need advanced degrees

(22:49):
as they get into a lot of thoseactivities as well.

Matt Kirchner (22:52):
Couldn't agree with you more. And by
coincidence, I was just having aconversation this morning with a
gentleman by the name of LeoReddy, who is the founder of the
manufacturing skills StandardsCouncil and Leo and I were
talking about the kind of skillsthat'll be important for the
frontline worker, I meanliterally, for the person coming
into manufacturing. And I thinkyou hit on some of them that are
really, really important, thatif I'm working at a machine

(23:13):
tool, if I'm working at on aproduction line that's combining
additive and subtractive andother technologies being able to
understand data visualization,and by that we mean it's not
necessarily diving into a huge,large language model and going
through every single line itemof data. It's saying, all right,
how can I read things likegraphs and other outputs from a

(23:33):
human machine interface at theproduction line that's telling
the information data drivenabout how my line is performing,
whether it's yield,productivity, cycle time. You
know, some predictive data ormodel that we have, and being
able to at least interact withthat data on a real, down to
earth basis, I think is going tobe, is going to be something
that's really, really important.
I know something that's reallyimportant to you is this new
partnership that you have withthe University of Maine. Love to

(23:56):
learn a little bit about thispartnership that you have, and I
understand it's unique. So maybeshare with our audience a little
bit how it might differ fromsome of the other academic
partnerships you've been a

Bill Peter (24:06):
part of, yeah. So one of the things we've been
trying to look at is, uh,sustainability and trying to
think about localized materials.

Matt Kirchner (24:13):
What is a localized material? Is that a
material that's drawn from alocal area, local area?

Bill Peter (24:18):
Yeah. So, so instead of thinking about centralized
manufacturing. Are thereopportunities where you could
look at what local resources Ihave and be able to use those?
One of those that's really easyto sort of think about, and
picture is biomass, and thinkingabout trees and other plant
matter, and how can I use thisinto products? And if we go back

(24:41):
to, I think it was about the2015 2016 time frame you had
Maine actually go through, whereabout five of the different
paper plant productionfacilities closed down. And it
was, it was a big emergency forthe state of Maine, just because
of how much they do with woodproducts. And. And soy and
oscan, who is one of ourresearchers working this space,

(25:04):
he had been studying, if youbreak down plant matter to its
fundamental basics, it gets intothese things called nano
crystals and nano fibrils. Ithink for the listeners, the
most important aspect of that isthey have some really nice
structural properties to them atthe Nano scale, right at the
Nano scale, and you could putthose into polymers and actually
get engineered products out ofit. And so what we did was

(25:27):
saying, Could we start toaugment and create value added
products with them? And theyalso do a lot of work in paper
and processing of wood productsto break those down. They were
just getting started into heavyand large scale Palmer printing.
And actually brought those twotogether and started looking at
high deposition rates of biobased materials to build up

(25:52):
structures and areas we'rethinking about are things like
packaging, thinking aboutbuildings and structure. And
when I say that, you think abouta home, and we have a huge
deficit in our homes at thispoint, can we start to go
through and actually augment orimplement some automation and
even the construction area aswell, and even think about

(26:15):
industrialized construction, weactually three printed a house.
It's about 600 square feet thatis all based off of bio based
materials. It's essentially gotwood flower in it into a bio
based polymer. Built the wholehouse in three sections. Were
able to go through and basicallyassemble that in about half a

(26:37):
day because we had already printthe parts and then finished it
all out for the next coupleweeks after that.

Matt Kirchner (26:43):
Unbelievable. So if you think about boiling that
down a little bit into into thesub components of what you just
talked about, I mean, first ofall, you know, when we think
about sustainability and locallysourced products, right? So if
you're able to build thesepolymers out of locally
acquired, nano scale renewableproducts, right? So these are
all things that, if I'm talkingabout a plant that's renewable
right at the location. And wethink about, you know, whether

(27:04):
it's extractive mining, or wethink about all the
transportation that goes intomoving materials, all of that
drops out of the model, becauseI've got the materials that are
being created right near thesource of consumption or the
source of use. And then I'mtaking those materials, and I'm
using additive manufacturing, inthis case, to basically 3d
print. You set a 600 square foothouse, which is, you know,

(27:26):
incredible. And just, you know,it's like a tiny house that
you're 3d printing out oflocally sourced materials. And
it's, it's completelysustainable, completely
renewable. And really kind ofspeaks to the future of, you
know, what the technology canlook like in terms of other
applications of that technology.
So 3d printing a house would beone of them. Are there other
things you're thinking about?
Bill,

Bill Peter (27:45):
yeah, one of the biggest areas we found at the
MDF, as well as the main we geta lot of industry that comes. In
fact, I get about 1100 companiesthat visit the Manufacturing
Demonstration Facility or MDFper year, every year. Wow. 1100
Yeah, 1100 so we get a lot ofinformation from them, yeah. And
tooling, molds, dyes, jigs,fixtures. Is a big, big area

(28:10):
that we've less about cost. Itusually has to do with lead time
and the speed of innovation, thespeed of fabrication. And one of
the things we've looked at isbeing able to create recyclable,
low cost mold. So one of theareas we've worked with is the
boating industry main where youcan go through, fabricate the
mold now and then use that moldto build your boats. We've also

(28:35):
done that with the precastconcrete industry and gate
construction. We actually, ifyou're ever in New York, see the
Domino Sugar building. Okay, theentire concrete facade was built
using 3d printed molds. Wow, isabout 65,000 pounds of material
that's led us to recycling aswell as sustainable material

(28:57):
practices like bio basedmaterials to go through and look
at those molds, and whether wecan bring down the cost of the
this upfront material by usingthose bio based materials. I

Matt Kirchner (29:07):
love that. I mean, you think about the world
of manufacturing that I spentall my time in, and you know,
you're trying to innovate atspeed, and then all of a sudden
you build a new machine tool, oryou need a new machine tool or a
mold or a fixture or workholding device, what have you.
And you know, you go to somecompany, maybe in the US, maybe
in Asia, who knows? And the leadtime is 369, months to get that
to now, all that innovationstands still. And what you're

(29:29):
saying is that we can do thatwith locally sourced components
in real time, in a way that wedon't have to necessarily wait
for somebody to build up thatfixture. Could certainly see how
that works in the in the marineindustry, in the construction
industry and so on. So greatthings coming from this
partnership with the Universityof Maine. I know that's not the
only partnership you have. Andin as much as you and I are
recording this episode at theInternational manufacturing

(29:50):
technology show here in Chicago,Illinois this week, you
referenced that a little bitearlier the last time we were
here with the shows, every twoyears, we interviewed every.
Single USA NationalManufacturing Institute. And I
know you're involved with one ofthem, that's IAC MI, and that's
all focused on workforcetraining. Give our our audience,
if you will, a primer on themanufacturing institutes, and

(30:11):
then tell us about this

Bill Peter (30:12):
partnership. Oak Ridge is heavily supports quite
a few of those. I personallyspent a lot of time with side
Manny, which is cyber security,says me, that's the Smart
Manufacturing. I

Matt Kirchner (30:24):
know I'm well, in fact, John dykes been a guest on
the podcast, the CEO, great guy.

Bill Peter (30:28):
That's That's great.
In fact, we're going to have ourannual, uh, sesame's annual
meeting will be at Oak Ridgethis year, really, yeah. So
yeah,

Matt Kirchner (30:35):
keep your eyes open for their new smart
manufacturing trainer. I don'tknow if you've seen that or not.
Sesame has a smart sensorstrainer around smart
manufacturing, and when they'rethere, you say you should check
that. Oh, that's

Bill Peter (30:44):
great. We'll go through that. Yeah. I Acme is
one that we helped found at thevery beginning. It's in
composites, and as we workedwith Acme, we've looked at, how
do we lower the overall cost forcarbon fiber, for composites,
and show how we can start usingit for application. For energy,
you know, energy use,

Matt Kirchner (31:04):
what is an application in energy for for
carbon fiber, for composites. Somost people, when you think
about carbon fiber andcomposites, you think about
aircraft, right? Or race cars,or we are race bikes. In my
case, bicycles, Yep, absolutely.
Actually,

Bill Peter (31:16):
the largest national need for it is in wind turbine
blades. Interesting, okay, andit's actually for the wind
turbine spars explicitly, butit's a huge application, and
it's growing as we continue tobuild more and more wind energy
turbines, right? And so whatwe've tried to do is understand
the precursor, which is abouthalf the cost, how we can lower

(31:38):
the carbon fiber, and then comeup with automated approaches to
fabrication of compositecomponents. So everything from
fiber to composites, we've beendoing work in that space, even
using Smart Manufacturing on thecarbon fiber production, which
is not something that youtypically see with a lot of
carbon fiber production. What'san example there visually, being
able to look at the fiber asyou're producing and being able

(32:00):
to actually tell certainfeatures when it comes to
oxidation, graphitization, tomake sure that the fiber is
going to have the mechanicalperformance you're expecting out
of it. It's visually looked atas we're going through, and able
to make real time changesthrough those process parameters
as you're going through, lookingat so you're not

Matt Kirchner (32:20):
only like doing predictive analytics, but
actually changing themanufacturing process based on
the data that's going through.
That's

Bill Peter (32:26):
really cool. Yeah.
And so with acne, we've spentquite some time with them,
working in that space, and oneof the things we've done is work
with them for a lot some of thedifferent workforce development
activities. If I take a stepback regionally. We're very
close to the University ofTennessee, and even though we
have 50 different partnershipswith universities, we've been
able to form up and create whatwe call their governor's chairs.

(32:50):
This is something that the stateof Tennessee has brought in,
where the the professors arehalf time at UT, half time at
Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
One of those is Uday video, whois the Chief Technology Officer
for IAC. Me, as we've gonethrough, we've gotten to connect

(33:11):
with acne in looking at thatworkforce element, and that
first started in what we weredoing on the composite side, but
that has grown, and one of thebiggest areas is machining. Back
in I think it was about 20182019 there was an executive
order to look at machine tools.
And the concern over wheremachine tools was going, we led

(33:32):
that and brought some greattalent from across the nation to
come together and talk about it.
That spurred on the Americascutting edge, which is a
Department of Defense, IBAS,which is industrial base and
assessment sustainability, andwent through and worked with
them to basically put togetherthis America's Cutting Edge

(33:54):
program that's at Oak Ridge andat Acme, okay to train people,
and it's made up of a coupledifferent elements. One is a we
went through and put internetcurricula. And one of the other
parts of this that was reallyimportant was the fact that we
didn't want it just to be for,you know, collegiate level, or
we really wanted to get morepeople engaged with this. So

(34:17):
this is being an online it'sfree. Anybody can go over and do
it. It's about a six hourcourse. So what are the learning
outcomes? What are peoplelearning? So they're learning
about advanced methods andknowledge base in the machining
process itself, certain thingslike how the cutting head, the
angle can change the shape ofthe chip, the efficiency of what

(34:37):
we're doing. Sure we've alsotied into it some of the various
activities at Oak Ridge withinthat in fact, one thing that
started off as a techcollaboration from the MDF, that
has led into a part of the ACEprogram was actually working
with MSC. We brought in about1314, MSC reached. All tech

(35:00):
managers that came in, we took aconcept of, if you do a tap test
and look at the acoustics andlook at it in accelerometer, you
can actually look at theefficiency of the cutting of the
system. And went through,created an app for this, and it
can improve cutting rates by twoto 5x

Matt Kirchner (35:23):
Wow. And that's an app that would be used by a
contract machining company orwho, who's

Bill Peter (35:27):
so, so MSC, and this is, this is an important one,
because sometimes getting intosmall companies, it's, it's hard
to implement or engage oncertain smart manufacturing
practices, or you're worriedabout buying equipment or what
have you right. In this case,MSC actually offers this as a
service to those that are buyingthe tools from them, so they

(35:48):
will come in and actuallyperform this with you, and then
show the optimization. And thefirst couple years they had, I
think, a little over a $20million savings for those
companies just based off ofdoing this, and are projecting
that it'll be about seven, $50million worth of savings long
term, unbelievable through usingthat so, so that's something

(36:09):
that's come out of that activityas well, right? We've had about
10,000 people participate on theonline curriculum, and it's
actually broadened to dometrology as well as machining,
composites and a couple otherareas as well. There's also,
though, a on site. So after yougo through and do this six hour

(36:29):
course, if you have interest,you could actually set up for it
on site. And there's 36different locations through the
nation that they've done and hadabout 1800 people perform the
one week on site, educationactivity as well, hands on. So

Matt Kirchner (36:44):
you're taking some really complex concepts,
right? We're talking, I mean,think about all the things we've
talked about, nano scaletechnology, carbon fiber,
accelerometers, acoustictesting, all these other complex
concepts and boiling it downinto it sounds like some bite
sized pieces that could beunderstood by anybody with some
modicum of manufacturingunderstanding or materials

(37:06):
understanding. Tell us about themagic of how you do that. How do
you take this really complexstuff that you're working on and
kind of distill it intosomething that makes sense to
somebody that's accessing it viae learning, or the 1800 people
that attended this, this eventthat you had.

Bill Peter (37:20):
Yeah, so one of our other governor's chairs, his
name is Suresh Babu, actuallylaid out several years with us,
a braided rivers approaches, theway he called it. The concept
is, is that as you go throughand look at education, I want
multiple different approachesthat are hitting different
individuals as we, as we thinkabout this, that there isn't a

(37:42):
one size fit fits all right. Andso that's led to everything from
us having internship programs,we typically each year. Oak
Ridge is a total has about 1000people. We have about 100
people, 50 to 100 people over inour space, specifically, that
are working on these advancedmanufacturing technologies. The
benefit of that is hands onactivities, getting to try out

(38:05):
the equipment, really getting tolearn from it, not just
classroom learning, but actuallygetting hands on on that. We
also had an internship programfor technicians that would work
on the equipment, with the ideathat when they finished working
with this, they would then go onand take jobs outside. And so
looking to see how we spur thaton, connecting with the various

(38:26):
different schools we've talkedabout. And then UT, we've had
anywhere from 60 to 150 studentsthat are engaged, that are
local, working between withinthe ecosystem, whether that's
Acme, Oak Ridge. What have you?
Awesome. Each of these have haddifferent aspects of how you go
through a lot of what we'redoing is heavily in the

(38:48):
sciences, and that's not whatyou're necessarily looking at
from the industry standpoint. Italked about the number of
companies that come in and workwith us that's important for us
to understand what's importantto them and how we translate
those activities. And that alsogoes back to the equipment

(39:09):
manufacturers working on thefloor with us, so we can see,
right, how do these actuallywork into the the machine
itself, and what are the thingswe need to be educating or
working around as you startdoing that,

Matt Kirchner (39:23):
and you're focused on what is important to
the individual manufacturers.
You suggest 1100 of them a yearthat are coming in, engaging
with the work that you're doing.
What are you hearing from themabout their biggest workforce
challenges,

Bill Peter (39:34):
the workforce challenges that we've seen as
we've gone through. A lot of theinterest has been on that hands
on. In fact, one of the thingsthat we did with Maine, Maine
actually started a while back, amerit badge type of process to
go through, and it was not justto show the classroom, but
actually get hands on training.
They've opened that up togetting these badges for. Or

(39:58):
actually time on the large scaleprinting machines and some of
the other composite equipment,and being able to have sound
amount of time between 100 to300 hours of application on
those machines to start showinga certain proficiency associated
with that Sure, and I think thatinformation is all been fed from

(40:23):
industry to Maine to lay out,what is it that they they want
those, those students, toactually learn from it? Are

Matt Kirchner (40:34):
there specific areas where they're saying, Hey,
these are the things that wewere these are the kind of the
skills or the competencies wereally want our workforce coming
to us with for

Bill Peter (40:41):
them work in the the bio mass and understanding some
of the wood products,understanding the 3d printing
and how to operate out ofmachines, were actually things
they were asking for within thecomposites. Part of the reason
we've gone heavily into themachining area is that skill set

(41:03):
in machining and making surethat we continue to have a large
demographic that understandsmachining. That actually was
part of the executive order, uh,findings, when we went through
and did it was just the averageage of what we're seeing in the
machining area, right? Andtrying to bring more people into
that space with a core knowledgeof how you know, machining

(41:26):
practices, modern machiningpractices, and what they could
be learning from that area.

Matt Kirchner (41:30):
Well. And I think that's a key part of it. When
you think about young peopleconsidering careers in
manufacturing, you know, it'sinteresting. If you look at all
the data, the number of youngpeople that want careers, quote
in tech, right? And it's like,depending on the survey, 60 to
80% of students are saying, Iwant a career with a tech
company. And then you thinkabout the kinds of technologies
that you're talking about here,and the kinds of intricate

(41:52):
sciences that you're workingwith, the research you're doing,
the future of manufacturing, allthese different applications,
the number one space for techcareers, in my opinion, is in
manufacturing, if you want towork in tech, there's a place
for you in manufacturing is allthese technologies are advancing
in the ways that you'redescribing. So a message to all
of our students that listenevery week and to their
teachers, make no mistake,manufacturing careers are

(42:14):
absolutely tech careers, andyou've got all kinds of
manufacturers coming to you withthese really complex challenges
that they're trying to addresswith that next generation of
talent. Give me an example, ifyou would, of you know, a really
off the wall kind of uniquequestion or challenge that a
manufacturer came to you with

Bill Peter (42:34):
Lockheed Martin when they came in, they had just
gotten into large scale polymerprinting. They had already
started to adapt a way forextruding it and trying to make
large parts with it. We gotengaged with them to understand,
how could we start increasingthe rates of production. It was
very small at that point. Westarted looking at screw

(42:58):
extruders and gantry systems tokeep with the pace and start
getting into really largesystems from this, as we started
to develop that, we found youhad to redefine the extruders.
You had to redefine thematerials. As we went through
Local Motors, saw we were doingthis on a home grown system, and

(43:20):
signed up for IMTS, actually, to3d print the car, the strategy
that is outside, yeah, we had asix month or eight month window
to try to do that very quickly.
Had to connect at that point,was with since staying
corporate, where we utilizetheir gantry based system, it
had the right head, ability tocarry the weight of the

(43:43):
extruder, and can move at theright rates as we did that. So
six months to figure out how to3d print a car. Yeah, six months
to go from I don't have aprinter that can do this to
going through and actually beingable to print. In fact, we
didn't get it quite right untilwe were actually here at at the
show, oh, a screw extruder thatwas developed that was at that

(44:03):
point, about 40 to 60 pounds perhour. Like I said, we're up to
about 500 pounds. Just give yousome order Wow, of where that
exponential economy, and that'show, and before that, we were at
like, 10 to 12 pounds per hour.
You weren't able to go throughand actually, the first couple
times we print the car, it wouldeven in quarters, it would crack
up on us. And so we really hadto develop, or very quickly

(44:29):
change, the entire printeritself and develop the
materials. And part of thereason I say materials is you
actually had to put about 20%glass or carbon fiber to keep
the coefficient thermalexpansion low in the polymer, to
actually keep it from notpulling up on you and cracking
or distorting the shape. So thatwas all done very, very quickly,

(44:51):
and it was this scenario betweenLockheed and then later having
Local Motors say, I'mchallenging you, and we need to
go through. And see, can we dothis? Yeah,

Matt Kirchner (45:01):
when you think about the companies that you've
mentioned, companies likeLockheed Martin, we talked
earlier about GKN, I talkedabout Lincoln Electric, when
you're working with some really,really cool companies, and it
speaks to again, this, thisincredible opportunity we have
to upskill a generation ofmanufacturing talent, you know,
let's turn the clock back ahead,I should say, and dream a little
bit. Bill, you know, 10, 510,years from now, even as we look

(45:25):
at the, you know, the skillsthat are going to be important
in manufacturing and those typesof careers, when you sit down
with, I'm sure you've gottremendous numbers of students
that take interest in the workyou're doing as well. What do
you tell them about the futureof advanced manufacturing and
what they should be thinkingabout,

Bill Peter (45:39):
I think, to be open minded and connect in a multi
disciplinary team. Industrytypically does this and pulls
together what differentbackgrounds they need as they're
going through and looking athowever, in our education
system, as well as at theNational Laboratories, we don't
always it's sort of birds of afeather flock together, right?

(46:02):
And doesn't integrate. Andfrankly, the strength of what
we're seeing comes from thatmulti disciplinary team we've
even had internally concept oflooking at, call it the
renaissance person. How manydifferent areas of development
and different projects can youget into so keeping that open

(46:24):
mind of learning new things,integrating the skill sets from
I think is important as you lookat this rapidly changing
manufacturing area, and pullingthose different strengths
together and knowledge basestogether, I think is really
important for our futureworkforce well, and

Matt Kirchner (46:43):
it really speaks to how the world of work in
manufacturing is changing youruse of the term multi
disciplinary and really thinkingabout, you know, somebody
working in manufacturing 3040,years ago, maybe even 1020,
years ago. You know, there was aplace where you could step into
running a machining center,working on an assembly line,
working on a particle booth orso on, and if you wanted to
probably have that job foralmost your entire career. And

(47:06):
now we think about how all thesetechnologies are changing, how
we have to pull people togetherfrom different parts of
manufacturing, making sure thatpeople have the understanding
of, yeah, I may be an expert inadditive but I need to
understand subtractive. Or I maybe an expert in subtractive or
machining, but I probably needto have a knowledge of metal
stamping or fabricating orjoining or what have you. So all

(47:26):
that interdisciplinary work,being able to work as a team,
really, really important. And Ithink you're right, as we think
about the importance for MultiDisciplinary interaction, the
importance for understandingspeed and manufacturing, not
just in terms of the productionprocess, but in terms of
innovation, in terms of bringingproducts to market and so on. So
it is going to be an excitingtime to be in manufacturing

(47:48):
again, whether you're doing theincredible research and
leadership that you're involvedin, whether you're involved on
the manufacturing shop floor interms of producing parts, this
is a really exciting time to bea young person. And that's kind
of where I want to finish ourconversation. Bill is kind of
turning back the clock to thetime when you were a young
person, maybe considering yourcareer, and as you and I were
talking, and as we we'vediscussed, had an opportunity to

(48:08):
live all over the country,experience a lot of different
cultures, a lot of differentpeople as you were growing up.
But I want you to go back to 15years old, your sophomore year
of high school. If you could goback to that young gentleman all
those years ago and give him onepiece of advice. Would that
piece of advice be? What

Bill Peter (48:26):
I would say is, really, as you start to go
through, be open to those thingsthat make you uncomfortable, the
biggest thing I've seen isgrowth opportunities in my own
individual life are those when Iwas on the edge or not
comfortable moving into newareas that really stretched your

(48:46):
thinking or challenged you. AndI think as we look at this
acceleration of adoption andtechnologies changing, I think
one of the most important thingsis leaning in and stepping into
it continuously. I think that'sthe biggest piece, is resistance

(49:07):
or not, jumping into it withboth feet and trying to take a
hold of it and then doing itagain and again, as you have new
opportunities to do so,especially

Matt Kirchner (49:17):
in this day and age in which we live, where
we've got so many technologiescoming at us, and not just the
Smart Manufacturing, not justmaterials. We talked about,
artificial intelligence, machinelearning, automation. And I
think there is a situation wherea lot of folks look at all that
and they become a little bituncomfortable, and rather than
running from that, we need toembrace the uncomfortable and
embrace what, what the futureholds for us, because it is a

(49:38):
really, really exciting future.
And I can't thank you enough,Bill for spending some time with
us talking about that future.
Our guest today on this episodeof The TechEd Podcast has been
Dr Bill Peter. He is thedirector for advanced
manufacturing at the Oak RidgeNational Laboratory. I want to
thank our audience for joiningus. If you love this, this
particular episode as much as I.
And talking so much aboutresearch and advancing

(50:01):
manufacturing technologies,technologies in general, please
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(50:23):
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