AI-Driven Learning: Empowering Students, Teachers, and Workers Alike - Dr. Rich Barnhouse, President of WCTC - The TechEd Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Matt Kirchner (00:08):
Welcome to The TechEd Podcast where we visit
with leaders who are shaping,innovating and disrupting
technical education. People whoare not afraid to think
differently, not afraid to trysomething new, all with the goal
of securing the American Dreamfor the next generation of STEM
and workforce talent. Welcome tothis week's episode of The
TechEd Podcast. I am your host,Matt Kirchner, it is wonderful

(00:31):
to have you with us. You know,when we start this podcast every
single week, we say in ourtagline that we love people that
are disrupting technicaleducation, we say that we love
people who aren't afraid to trysomething new. And today we are
going to talk with somebody whois exactly like that, you know,
every once in a while in life,you meet somebody, whether it's

(00:52):
a business meeting, in a socialengagement, and you shake hands
and you start talking and you'relike, Oh, my goodness, this
person is just a genius. We'rereally well connected. We think
the same way. That is thefeeling that I had when I met
today's guest a couple of shortyears ago, a rich Barnhouse is
the president of Waukesha CountyTechnical College if folks don't

(01:13):
know exactly where that is justwest of the city of Milwaukee in
my home state of Wisconsin. Andthe first day I met Rich, I was
like, wow, this is somebody thatI can work with this is somebody
who is a genuine disrupter,isn't afraid of the future is
excited to take his institutionheadlong into the future in a
fearless fashion. And that isexactly what he's done. So it's

(01:34):
my great pleasure today towelcome to the studios of The
TechEd Podcast in person, by theway, the president of Waukesha
County Technical College, Dr.
Rich Barnhouse. Rich, thanks forbeing here.

Rich Barnhouse (01:45):
Hey, thanks.
Thanks for having me. You know,I've never been called a genius
that I remember, and certainlynever when it's being recorded.
So thank you very, very

well in you gotta be careful, because our audio
engineer could auto always editthat out. But we're gonna make
sure that that, that Thatstated, I should edit that out.
But I meant that introduction,genuinely, when we first met and
I shook hands across yourconference room table in your in
your new office at that time, Iwas so impressed by the way that
you think about technicaleducation in the way that you
think about the future ofcreating that next generation of

(02:15):
our workforce, you really are aninnovator, and I know that our
audience is going to get atremendous amount out of this
conversation. Let's start outwith this. You know, you've been
involved in education rich, alot of different places, you
know, spent time in Ontario inFlorida, several stints here now
in Wisconsin, and it's certainlya blessing to have you back
here. Um, tell us a little bitcompare and contrast your what

(02:35):
do you see, as consistencies?
what are maybe some of thedifferences regionally that you
see in technical education?

Yeah, I think there's more consistency than
lack thereof. And I think intechnical education, regardless
is if it's a, an institutionthat's looking at more
certificates and in on theground training, or it's
somebody like us who's involvedin an associate's degree in
those types of things. Everybodyis really trying to do their
very best. And when I say veryfast, I mean, actually doing it

(03:02):
staying connected to thecommunities that they serve. And
I think that's really one of thedifferences about tech
education. And the, it's reallythe commitment to the
communities that we serve. Andwhether you're in Florida, or
Texas, or South Carolina,Michigan, some of the places
I've been those types ofinstitutions, there's no getting

(03:25):
away with not meeting the need.
Because presidents like myself,in in at technical colleges or
institutes are so connected tothe community that we see the
CEOs everywhere. And it's not asif I get an email from somebody
in a different state that'ssaying something that I'm not
aware of, I might bump intosomebody at a CEO roundtable and

(03:47):
they say, Hey, rich, we needyou. We need to start working on
this, or where are we on ourlast conversation? And that's
something I think that reallydrives quite honestly, a big
part of the US economy. That'sone of the consistencies that I
see across the country. And youmentioned,

rich, the importance of the partnership
with a local local economy withsome local employers, you know,
do you see that same level ofcommitment at the four year
universities? I mean, is it isit similar or different? You
know, clear that a little bit,

I think, the the desire, the certainly the desire
is there. And the intent isthere. And I've worked in four
year institutions across thecountry. And, you know, I spent
eight years is in, you know, inthe UW system as well. And I
think that that without a doubt,the intent is there. And I want
to start off by saying thatwe've got a wonderful, wonderful

(04:40):
UW system that reallycomplements everything that we
do in the technical collegesystem. I think, I think across
the country, let's just saynationally, that over the past
maybe decade or so, there's beenthis awakening of traditional
four year institutions to theidea of or more importantly, the

(05:01):
need to connect to thecommunities and the businesses,
the way technical colleges andcommunity colleges have, you
know, since their inception, youknow, 110 112 115 years ago. And
I think that they're making alot of headway there. But it is
really difficult to transitionand move even a medium sized

(05:24):
university with the type ofstructure and governance to make
it react as quickly and attachas quickly as say we do in the
technical college system. But Ithink they're certainly trying.
It's a regular conversation thatI have with my colleagues who
are presidents and chancellorsof, of the universities in our
area.

Absolutely. You know, I often comment, you know,
what a little bit of a cultureshock that I had when I moved
over to the world of educationfor manufacturing, and I used
to, to kind of joke a little bittongue in cheek, but not really,
when I was running small midsizemanufacturing companies, you can
make a decision on Monday,implemented on Wednesday and
start seeing the difference inthe changes on Friday. And I

(06:03):
learned really, really quicklythat education in general, and
particularly University, highereducation doesn't work that way.
And through no fault of thepeople leading those
institutions, they have a lot ofconstituencies to serve,
perhaps, and to some degree forgood reason they have, they have
rules and requirements aboutabout meeting, you know,
regulatory requirements, andmaking sure that they're being
really thoughtful about thechanges that they're making.

(06:25):
But, you know, one of the jokesI've heard often is that change
happens in, in university inhigher education, one retirement
at a time, I think somebody putit one death at a time. A little
bit more of it. Well, maybe. ButBut I think to your point,
certainly, you know, it takes ittakes some time to make changes
in the university structure. Andand I've lived through that the

(06:46):
hard way and learn that you'vereally got to be patient, you've
really got to be thoughtful, andbuild those partnerships, build
trust, and over time, you can,you can make changes, hopefully
sooner rather than later,hopefully, in a couple years,
rather than 100 years, althoughsome changes can take 100 years,
which is kind of a segue intoour next question, you're
celebrating a huge anniversaryhere at Waukesha County
Technical College, how manyyears?

Were 100 100 years. So we're, as I like to
say we are, we are transitioninginto our second century of
excellence. There you go.

I love it. Yeah.
And that's it. And that is agreat way a great way of looking
at it. And for those that maybeare a little bit further outside
of our area, geographically, IIt's like every day I'm seeing
another alert another noticeanother celebration on social
media about this anniversary, Iknow your your faculties
incredibly proud, your staff isincredibly proud of that legacy
in carrying this institution tothe future. So Happy

(07:37):
anniversary. Thank you, from allof us here at The TechEd Podcast
to everybody at Waukesha CountyTechnical College. Talk a little
bit about the pressure thatmaybe that brings, I mean, you
know, you stepped into thisorganization, it was functioning
well, when you got there, right.
And we're doing a lot of amazingthings. And the job is to
continue that legacy and tobuild upon it. Do you feel that

(07:58):
pressure? Like, oh, my goodness,I got this 100 years of
experience 100 years ofreputation, then it's my job to
continue pushing that in theright direction?

In a word. Yes.
And I'll tell you a little bitabout it. And I think actually,
the word pressure is a very,very good one. I was asked on I
don't know, maybe a year ago,you know, what's the difference
between being a vice presidentand a president. And I just, it
came very clear to me, it's notthe stress because that's in any
job doesn't matter what levelyou're out. But the the the
weight and the pressure to getit right. It to make the right

(08:30):
educated guess, based on theinformation and data, you have
to move the institution? Andthen to get, you know, 1000s of
people to also follow that andbelieve in that, I think so
that's certainly the pressure isthe right word. And I think, you
know, to your question. Thereare some days where I feel like

(08:52):
the luckiest guy alive, becauseI came to WC TC as probably one
of the finest institutions I'vebeen a part of so it is solid
from you know, stem to stern.
And but you can't stand still, Idon't know who said it. But
somebody once said, even ifyou're on the right road, if
you're standing still, you'regonna get run over. Right. And I

(09:13):
think that that's what'shappened to a lot of higher
educational institutions. Andyou see what's happening. And I
think we'll maybe talk aboutthis later across the country
with some of our closecolleagues and some a little bit
more just in other parts of theof the country. So there is
that, that that pressure, youknow, certainly that I feel.
It's, it's, for me, it'spalpable. But I think for the

(09:37):
people on campus, it's exciting.
Because what I've told them isthat we are going to put our
foot on the accelerator, we'regoing to add new programs we're
going to invest when ourcolleagues at my brother
institutions are cutting, we'regoing to invest and we're going
to grow and we're going to gointo areas that maybe people
hadn't thought of in the past.

(09:57):
And that's part of my job is aswe're transitioning. To our, you
know, our second century ofexcellence is to make sure that
the taxpayer students andemployers continue to feel like
we are delivering for them everysingle day. And it could be the
smallest request, or some of thelarger requests that we've
received. But to deliver onthat, and then to add and change

(10:20):
programming, and honestly, toimplement what I call automatic
organic evolution. Because ifyou've got automatic organic
evolution, you don't have thesecrises of change where people
don't change for years, don'tadd things for years, and then
you've got a big disruption. Andso that's the trajectory that

(10:42):
we're on.

I love that, you know, we introduced a term
infinity point, oh, the wholeconcept of that was the idea
that, you know, inmanufacturing, in that
particular case, we're in thisera of there won't be in
industry 5.0 An industry 6.0, itis going to be continuing
evolution and revolution oftechnology of applications of
the use of data. So if we'resitting here waiting for the

(11:03):
next step, step transformation,in manufacturing, we're missing
the one that's going on rightnow. And it sounds like your
attitude toward education isexactly the same way, let's not
wait for the big next big steptat transformation or theory, or
what have you that somebodycomes up with five to 10 years
ago, let's innovate every day,let's evolve everyday, let's
understand the technologies arechanging, that the way that we

(11:24):
deliver learning is changing,our students are changing, our
faculties changing, and let'sembrace that change. Let's let's
be excited about it, andcontinue to move the institution
forward. So am I seeing kind ofwhat we're looking at maybe
sometimes in the manufacturingsector, the same way that you're
looking at education?

Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. And I think that
there was a lot of standingstill in higher education and
all doesn't matter what categoryof of institution you were a
part of, there was a little bitof standing still, for some
time. And I think that highereducation wasn't necessarily

(12:01):
listening to the I maybe notoverwhelming, but very loud
voices of communities,businesses, government, etc,
saying, you know, you're kind ofdelivering, but what you're kind
of delivering is what we needed,like 10 1215 years ago, and we
need something different today.
So for example, one of thethings that we've done, we
partnered with EatonCorporation, and the model is

(12:23):
shifting from when an employercomes to you and says, you know,
we need training in this or weneed education. And this, the
typical college and universityresponse is, oh, sure, yeah,
we've got a program, if theyjust get into this program, we
cover most of that stuff. That'snot the way to do it anymore. So
the way we're doing it, and thegreat examples with Eton, they
came to us and they said, Weneed specific programming in

(12:46):
this. And we decided to say, Youknow what, we're going to build
a program just for you. Now,anybody can come into this
program. But we're going tobuild this program just based on
what your needs are. And we welook forward to doing that with
lots of different businesses.
Yep.

That's so forward thinking. And I think we're
seeing we're seeing TechnicalEducation evolve in that in that
regard, maybe not as quicklyacross the country as we'd like
it to, but definitely evolving.
Where I think historically, youknow, if somebody came to the
university, or sorry, to thetechnical college and said, Hey,
we're looking for training influid power, you know, teach us
with these are the pneumaticscompetencies we're looking for?

(13:26):
You know, the answer wassometimes, to your point, well,
we have this course that thisteacher teaches, and you can do
that. Or we can send aninstructor into your place of
business every Friday for thenext eight weeks for eight hours
a day, and teach fluid power inthe manufacturer sitting there
saying, wait a minute, I mean,you want me to take 10 people
off of my shop floor, put themin a classroom one day a week
for eight weeks, you know,that'll work great. The first

(13:48):
week, the second week,somebody's sick, the third week,
somebody's on vacation, thefourth week of production line
goes down and half the peopleare out on the shop floor in it,
it becomes very, veryinflexible. And I think that way
of saying all right, you know,what do we want to teach? When
do we want to teach it? Where dowe want to teach it? How do we
want to teach it in a way thatallows that employer to really
embrace the training and alsomakes it flexible enough to work

(14:09):
in this just crazily crazy,quick, functioning and changing
world and manufacturing is justone example. It sounds like
that's, that's what your mindsetwas with Eaton.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, in higher
education, folks aren't used toparts of the traditional
business model, and some of thatstuff is a loss leader, like
you've got to be willing toinvest. And, you know, you have
to live within a balanced budgetand higher education typically,
but you've got to be able torisk some financial loss.

(14:41):
Reasonable. Sure, right, thatyour board of trustees will
support in order to build aprogram that doesn't exist, take
a little bit of a chance. Andthen the returns on that are,
you know, tenfold? Right youknow, indefinite and you're
meeting the needs of, of, youknow, a local employer Who
happens to be a globalmanufacturer? And you pave the

(15:03):
way for a new type of deliveringprogramming?

Absolutely. You know, I mean, there's no startup
in the world that started withliterally zero and get itself
off the ground, right? You canstart with close to zero. But at
some point, you have to makethat investment, whether it's
time, talent, capital, what haveyou with the belief and the
confidence that you're going totake that investment and turn it
into positive cash flow and onthe road, and it sounds like,
sounds like that's exactly whatyou're doing? You know, I think

(15:27):
backwards to that, that firstmeeting that you and I had, and,
and, you know, like you I've hada lot of first time meetings
with new leaders with neweducators. And I've never sat
down at the table with one ofthem who said, you know, I think
I'm just gonna change nothing,you know, I'm just gonna, my
salary is pretty good. I got itpretty good. This organization's
moving along. We're just gonnaleave it as this, you know, I've
never heard a maybe some of themthought that never heard

(15:48):
anybody. Never heard anybody saythat. But you know, you came to
the table with all these ideas,all these visions. And there's
always that that moment, whetherit's your, you know, whether
it's your team, whether it'syour community that are sitting
there looking at it and saying,okay, it sounds really good. But
is this guy really going to doit, I had the pleasure of being
in the room, when you welcomedall your all your faculty and

(16:08):
your staff back in August, Ithink of 2021 actually was well
give or take back to campusreally after the pandemic,
right. And so we're noweverybody's back in the same
room, you know, some fairly bigpromises were made in that room
when you got up for the firsttime physically before your
entire entire team. But I'mproud to say that in watching
the experience that you've hadover the course of the ensuing

(16:31):
almost 18 months, you'redelivering on a lot of those
promises. One of them you got upI just remember specifically
you're talking about is the waythat you believe that things
like artificial intelligence andmachine learning, were going to
transform education, but youhave this fascination with
artificial intelligence? Andwhat is it about this, this new
and emerging technology that'sjust totally captured your

(16:51):
interest? Has you fixated on howit affects education?

Well, I think it's an unbelievably exciting
time to be alive because ofthis. And I think that if you're
1618 years old, it's even moreexciting. I'm almost envious of
folks that are, you know, justcoming out of high school and
what they're going to be able todo. But, you know, as I looked
at artificial intelligence,machine learning, people know

(17:14):
what exists. And they're kind oflike, Yeah, I kind of heard Elon
Musk talking about it. And, butthe thing about it, that I
really believe is true, it, itis going to be the biggest
transformational technology thathuman beings have ever seen. And
I really think that in 100 yearsfrom now, the what comes out of

(17:36):
artificial intelligence over thenext 50 or 75 years, is going to
be transforming things for, youknow, centuries and centuries.
And obviously, it'll get betterand better and better. But, you
know, I kind of think aboutwhere we are right now, with
artificial intelligence, machinelearning, and our ability to
automate putting in the batterycell and you put all those

(17:56):
together. We're really like,where humanity was in about
1750, right? If you look at thetechnology is different. And all
these things were comingtogether in the 17, about 1750.
Ish. And that's what's happeningright now, as well. And

(18:17):
artificial intelligence is goingto change everything. And it's
already starting. And I knowthat there's a lot of
conversation about, we need toslow down, and it's dangerous.
And, you know, some of thatmight be true, I don't know. But
that cat is out of the bag. AndI think those who harness it
early, teach it early, you know,not just curricularly in the

(18:41):
classroom, but also work withbusinesses in order to help them
upskill are really going to pushtheir communities, their local
businesses forward. And Ipersonally, I really think that
we need to do this well, acrossthe country. This is about
influence in the globe, fordecades and centuries.

Absolutely. It's gonna be fascinating to watch it
roll out. And you know, part ofmy thinking on it is if people
of conscience aren't harnessingthat technology and getting
ahead of it than the people whomaybe don't have the same level
of ethics and morality are,that's a pretty scary situation
to be in. It absolutely.

is. I mean, good people. You know, what did I
think it was? Sir Edmund Burkesaid, the easiest way for evil
to succeed is for good men to donothing. You know, that's not
it's maybe a little dramatic forme to use that, that quote, as
it relates to AI, maybe not, butto think that the Chinese are
gonna slow down, or the Iraniansare gonna slow down or anybody

(19:41):
that can get their hands on thisto give them the advantage.
That's wishful thinking. And soin the United States and in the
Western world, I think we haveto have ethical people working
on this both in defense againstartificial intelligence and also
to make the very best use of it.

Yeah, absolutely.
You and I couldn't agree more.
All right, it's just a really towhere you started the answer to
the previous question. It's sucha, such an exciting time to be
alive and and just so manyopportunities in front of our
young people, so manyopportunities in front of
students, if they if they wraptheir arms around these
technologies and get ahead ofthem, I know you're working
really, really hard at not just,you know, anticipating and

(20:20):
readying the institution for thetransformation of artificial
intelligence. But reallyunderstanding where your
partners are, especially youremployer partners are on the
front end of this of thistransition. I've had the really
the honor to sit on severalpanels at WC TC over the last
three or four months even met agentleman whose name I know will

(20:42):
resonate with you, Brian Kayfrom Rogers behavioral health
who joined me right in thestudio two months ago, yeah,
just I, he and I hit another oneof those guys, we just hit it
off. And he was, you know, justfor the benefit of the audience.
I had talked about that, in thatpanel, you know, Fanuc robots
that will predict their ownfuture failure and order their
own replacement parts. And hewas talking about how you could

(21:02):
use somebody's heart rate orsleep patterns to predict PTSD
episodes, to predict evensuicide. And we looked at each
other, like, at the same momentwhen the panel was done. And
almost at the same time, I waslike, you can use predictive
analytics to predict that and hewas like, saying the same thing
to me about robots. And we'relike, Okay, so anyway, he came
in, had a really fun time withBrian, but sat on now two panels

(21:25):
on artificial intelligence andhow it's going to manifest
itself across a number ofdifferent sectors, I, you know,
I fixate on manufacturing,because that's what my
background is, but But you know,it's healthcare, its government,
its education, its retail, itshospitality, I mean, every
single segment of our economy isgoing to be transformed by AI.

(21:45):
But as you're starting to gatherback now, from several of these
panels, and several of theselistening sessions that your
team has had, with businessleaders and thought leaders in
artificial intelligence, whatare you starting to hear? Are
you starting to distill any kindof common trends or, or thought
patterns? Or what are youhearing from these individuals?

Before I answer the question, I mean, Brian is
just unbelievable. And whatthey're doing at Rogers
behavioral health, forprediction, and using artificial
intelligence is, you know,again, I spend most of my, my
time thinking about AI indifferent ways. But in, in
mental health. Yep. It's justunbelievable. It is. So you

(22:23):
know, I think some of the thingsthat we're learning very
clearly, is that I would saythere is across industries, and
it doesn't matter what specificindustry it is, there is a
middle level of folks incompanies who are working on AI.

(22:45):
And they're really prettyskilled, what you heard. But,
you know, the levels above thatmid level, position, split in
typically in technology and abusiness. Above that there's not
there's a real gap in what AI iswhat AI can do. And there's a

(23:06):
real gap below that. We knowwhere the, you know, the rubber
hits the road. And I think thatthat's one of the big reasons
why, although as moving quickly,it could have gone on even more
quickly, for the right reasons,there are a number of things
that I'm seeing, but one of themis that we really need in higher
education, to really startdeveloping programming and

(23:30):
taking it out directly to theleaders of of manufacturing and
businesses, and even healthcarefor their executives and middle
managers to say, to reallydescribe to them what they could
and should be doing, becausethen they can drive it downward,
or at least have a conversationwith the folks in their
companies that are working onthis. The other thing that that,

(23:53):
you know, we've learned is thatwhat companies are looking for
in terms of expertise is, youknow, as I've been told, rich,
we've got plenty of PhDs andMa's that can build this stuff
for us. What we don't have arereally functional and
operational experts inartificial intelligence that can
work with robots that can dothings and think the way to some

(24:17):
degree humans do. And so thoseare some of the things that
we're we're really starting tohear. I also think there's a lot
more artificial intelligenceimplemented today, just in
Southeast Wisconsin, than werealize there is a an absolute
ton of innovation going on. Andit's it's happening so quickly,

(24:37):
which is probably why there'snot a lot of conversation about
it, because it's you know, it'sjust, you know, it's like you
were saying about infinity pointOh, right. It's just boom, boom,
boom, boom, boom, every day it'sgetting, it's getting bigger and
better and smarter. The otherthing I always say is that there
is a huge gap on the educationalside of AI, massive gap and I

(24:59):
think the gap is largely at thebaccalaureate and associate
degree levels. So, as I've beentold, there are lots of folks at
the MA and PhD levels. But thereis a an absolute dearth in
bachelor's degree and associatedegree level. And we need to
fill that gap. Absolutely. You

know, one of the one of the thermometers that I
really live by if I've got like10 of them, this would be on the
on the list is that I don't needto know everything about
something in order to use it.
And and, you know, we thinkabout, and I've talked to some
people in the crowd, I don'thave time to make every one of
my team members, PhDs and dataanalytics and data science and,
and I'm like, Well, nobody'sasking you to do that. But in

(25:38):
order to put some of thesetechnologies to work, you don't
need to know everything aboutit. But you better know what the
application is. And I thinkparticularly in our nation's
community and technicalcolleges, that is a really,
really great opportunity is tofigure out what you know, what
is from a, you know, working.
And I don't mean that literally,but figuratively, from a working
level knowledge, what do I needto know, in order to benefit

(26:01):
from these technologies? How doI have coherent conversations
with the people who are experts,so that I can explain to them
what it is, and I'm seeing whereI see the opportunity, and then
we can get the people who wantto spend their their life and in
their world dealing with complexalgorithms and regression
analysis, and deep learning andneural networks, and all these
other things that most of usdon't have any need to
understand in order to put thattechnology to work.

And that's what Intel are Intel power, the
United States. Corporationunderstands they are working
Intel's working specificallywith two year community and
technical colleges, because theysee exactly what you're
describing. And their theirconcern is not at the PhD and
master's degree level with allof the items that you mentioned,
they know that AI is going to bethis big functional need that is

(26:49):
completely not met. And youknow, of course companies like
that are thinking globally, howdo we compete in a really,
really aggressive, you know,planet, and so they are really
committed, and they've helped usreally build our curriculum,
quite honestly, for artificialintelligence that will be
rolling out over the next yearto 18 months?

Absolutely. You know, we think we think about a
great company like Intel, andI'm actually almost done reading
a book called chip war, which isabsolutely fascinating. I don't
know if you've read that or not.
But it's really the kind of thebiography of the chip of the
microprocessor going all the wayback to, you know, well over
half a century ago, fascinatingbook, we just lost Gordon Moore
within the last two months, thefounder of Intel, really the, in
my mind, the godfather of theexponential economy, and how we

(27:32):
double our rate, the rate atwhich we can process information
every 12 to 18 months, and thatthat company has just been such
a juggernaut for for advancingtechnologies, sees the trend
taking place in artificialintelligence is jumping all over
it and working with a greatinstitution like WC, TC and
others to implement thatcurriculum into their programs.
That's certainly one of thethings that our educators can do

(27:55):
as we think about the future ofAI is partner with companies
like Intel and others who aredoing great work in the space.
What advice do you have rich forother educators, be it you know,
university level technicalcommunity colleges, even our
high schools, workforcetraining, and so on? What are
what are educators need to bethinking about embedding in
their programs as it relates toAI?

Well, I think first of all, it's our
responsibility. You know, itreally is our responsibility.
And getting in on this now anddeveloping programs is the
responsibility of highereducation, regardless of what
part of the work classificationyou are. And I think, you know,
we're talking at W CTC nowabout, we should have artificial

(28:40):
intelligence in every program,it doesn't matter what it is,
because it is so important. And,you know, the folks that are
starting with us, let's saythey're starting with us in
fall, and they might be with usfor a year for a tech diploma or
two years for an associatedegree or maybe a little less
First Certificate. When theyleave us. They're going to be

(29:00):
embedded in industries andbusinesses that are utilizing
artificial intelligence. It'skind of like in this is sort of
maybe a bad example. But it'skind of like sending somebody
out into the world that might bean accountant or somebody
working in finance and notshowing them how to use a
calculator, right, like this isthat that's how embedded this

(29:21):
is. So number one, I think it'sa responsibility. The other
thing is that it's it's here,and our students are using it,
right. Like they're using chatthey are and so we've got to
figure out how do we teach andinstruct with this in an ethical
way? Because I think if you sayyou, we're not going to use
this, or this is how studentscheat. Get over it. Right. It's

(29:43):
happening. And so we've got to,you know, we've been working
with Dean's and others to figureout how do we get this into our
curriculum and teach with it?
That my advice for othercolleges and universities is to
just get started and they'll beamazed at the talent of the
faculty Do they have on campusas I was when I found out that
we had faculty that were fullyeducated and ready to go? I've

(30:04):
met several of you. Right. Andand I wasn't even aware of that.
But I would say get startedreach out to other colleagues
and partners. And you know,certainly W CTC is happy to
help. Intel is great. And themost important thing, I think,
quite honestly, is get with thebusinesses, industries in your
community that you serve, tofind out what their AI needs

(30:26):
are, because they're going to bedifferent in Walkinshaw, or
Milwaukee or Racine, incomparison to what somebody
might need an Oklahoma thatmight be similar, right, or
Silicon Valley. Yeah,

one of the benefits of a decentralized
system here, Wisconsin,absolutely, really responsive to
your regional employers, which Iknow is something that's so so
very important to you, you know,as we continue this discussion
around AI, and it's such anabsolutely fascinating topic to
me, I just, I just keep comingback to this over and over
again, you know, a couple followon questions, you know, one of

(31:00):
them, first of all, to respondto something that you just
mentioned, I think about the waythat faculties in higher
education around the worldresponded to COVID. And, and how
we were able to use a crisis to,in so many ways advance the
cause of education, right, wehad people that were fighting,
remote learning and fightingelearning, and virtual skills,
and all these kind of in andcoming up with all these

(31:22):
reasons, in some cases, why theywouldn't work. And then when
they were upon them, and wereally didn't have any choice.
It's amazing how innovative wecan be. And I think if
individuals like yourself, whoare leading institutions of
higher education leading ineducation, in general, really
take the position of look, wehave to do this, this is
happening. It's not a do we doit or don't we AI is real, we've

(31:42):
got a more fair model aroundartificial intelligence, I think
that's going to be reallyimportant. The other thing,
again, just responding tosomething you said, I think
every once in a while, andindustry, 4.0 was one of these,
I think AI is another one, therecomes a time, we certainly want
to listen to our industrialemployers, we want to listen to
our employers across the board,and get their input and
understand how in this instance,AI is affecting their business.

(32:06):
But we also have to push them alittle bit. And I think that a
lot of times, again, as someonewho worked in manufacturing all
those years, you get reallybogged down every day, with
getting orders out withresponding to customers dealing
with quality issues, lines,going down employee concerns,
all these things are really,really important that you
sometimes you're just trying toget to the end of the shift or
the end of the day, and you'llfigure out AI tomorrow, this is

(32:27):
an opportunity, I think, foreducation to really step in and
say, Look, this is what we'reseeing on a macro level, this is
how it's going to affect yourorganization. And this is why we
have to get ahead of it, whichis exactly what you're doing. I
want I want to shift now tostill on this topic of
artificial intelligence, but topracticing what you preach. So
we've talked about how it'sgoing to transform your, you

(32:48):
know, your your communities,it's going to transform the
world that your students aregoing into, but at the same
time, it's going to transformeducation, not just in terms of
curriculum, but in terms of howwe actually administer and
deliver education to ourstudents. How are you thinking
about how AI is going to affectthe operation side of education,

(33:09):
and any examples of how you'releveraging it now to change the
student experience?

I think we're microcosm because I think it's
going to change most things,maybe everything, even just in a
in a minor way, everything willbe adjusted by this. One of the
first ways quite honestly, thatwe're looking at this is the
declining workforce. How do weuse? You know, like any business
right, contrary to popularbelief, a college is a business

(33:33):
it is. And so how do we mitigatefor the declining workforce, and
the competition for employees?
You know, colleges need them toso worth what I've instructed
management, W CTC and and ourDean's, and I've even had a
conversation with ouradministrative assistants group
to say, take some, you know,reasonable risks here with AI.

(33:58):
There's no penalties forscrewing this up. Don't worry
about it. But how do we becomemore efficient? One? How do we
utilize data to be moreaccurate, more ahead of the game
more predictive, and what we'redoing more accurately
predictive, right, and whatwe're doing. And as I've said to
many people, you've always askedfor two of you, right? In

(34:21):
addition to yourself, that's thevolume of work. Let's figure out
how various AI tools can makethree, four or five of you so
that you then have time tothink, reflect, plan, and really
operate the way you've alwayswanted to. So that's sort of on
the operational side where we'reheading and you can imagine and
those listening, whether it'syour CFO and their team working

(34:43):
through Budget and Finance andthings there or daily
administrative tasks that you'repaying people to do that my God
if we could just figure out away to automate this, we would,
you know, those are the thingsthat AI will certainly do on the
students side of things. We arereally becoming heavily invested
the wrong way, but very seriousand taking action toward being

(35:07):
able to predict what classesstudents want, when, how, in
what modality so that we it'salmost as if we're reading
minds, so we can deliver exactlywhat 16,000 students need, right
at WC, etc, in the rightmodality, right number of
faculty, and we have all theresources, ready to go, and

(35:29):
books and all the materials,etc. And then also plugging that
into understanding what's thedemand for employees? Because
when we talk to employer,employers, and we're asking
them, What are you going to needin three years? Right, right
now, as you know, they're like,like, I don't Oh, my God, I got
20 openings right now. That's myfocus right now. And so using

(35:51):
artificial intelligence,intelligence to help us
understand what businesses can'teven understand at this point.

Absolutely. Some really great points, you know,
you think about, first of all,we fought the battle of the
robots are going to take my jobforever, we're still going, we
still fight that a little bit, Iget that question. When I'm
speaking now, a lot less than Iused to. So, you know, I used to
get it almost every time I spokeon industry 4.0 on automation,
somebody invariably would raisetheir hand, it wasn't a question
of whether they're gonna ask thequestion, it was a question of

(36:20):
how deep into the q&a session,was it gonna come up? Was it
gonna be the first question thesecond one? Or the third one?
That question we don't hear somuch anymore. And but we're
starting to hear about it herein AI, right? Well, if computers
can do everything, what's goingto happen to my job? And if I
think about what you just said,you know, there's almost again,
having run many organizationsover the course of more years

(36:40):
than I care to admit, I've neverhad somebody come into my
office, say, you know, I justdon't have enough to do, you
know, I mean, my job is just tooeasy, right? I mean, maybe once
or twice, but it's usually Ican't get it all done, how am I
gonna, you know, if we can startusing, you know, AI tools
Chappie to GPT just being one ofbazillions of examples, to help
us write letters, help usrespond to emails help us to, to

(37:03):
track our to do list, you know,whatever. And we can delegate in
quotes, some of the work thatwe're doing manually to an AI
platform that makes us moreproductive. And frankly, the the
not, I don't know that anybodyreally has to worry about their
job at this point. Because rightnow, we've got way more jobs,
and we have people to fill them.
And that's not changing anytimesoon. But anybody who is worried
about it, you're gonna be waymore valuable to your employer,

(37:25):
if you can leverage these tools.
So that's gonna be really,really important. And I think
about your example of thestudents and their many
schedules, you know, you thinkabout a manufacturing company,
or a company in general that'strying to predict demand for
their product in the future, andall kinds of, of data driven
ways to do that understandingconsumer behavior, understanding

(37:45):
the economy, understandingtrends in, in product
development, and so on, usingall that to say, what are my
consumers, my customer is goingto want 1214 18 months from now,
and how do I get there beforeanybody else? You're kind of
saying the same thing abouteducation, let's take this data,
and maybe a student that'sexploring different schedules,
different ways of aligning theircourses, different courses they

(38:06):
might take, how is that going toalign to a degree program or a
tech diploma? How does that jivewith their, you know, maybe
their, their personalresponsibilities to their family
or, or to their, to theircareer, and like, so many
community college students,technical college students are,
are already in the workforce,and using all that data, then to
create the most streamlinedstudent experiences possible.

(38:26):
And then understanding thedemand for your services, which
is, you know, educating studentsand then predicting that demand
and filling it whether it's youknow, I love the even the
thought I'm modality is avirtual reality, is it? Is it
elearning? Is it in classroominstruction? Is it hands on
experiences, work based learningthere, all those different
things that go into creatingreally good product in the

(38:47):
technical college system? Andusing predictive analytics to to
get there?

Yeah, I, you know, I want to be as close to
100% accurate as possible. Andas we're, and I think maybe
that's something else thatpeople don't understand about
AI, is, I really think that atWCC, we should be able to
predict, within a very smallmargin of error, exactly what
16,000 students are going towant. And when they're gonna

(39:12):
want it, there's no longer anexcuse in three or four years
from now that you can't do that.
Because we already you know, inthe data systems we have, we
already have students fillingout in our registration system,
multiple types of schedules thatmight fit their needs, we have
that data behind the scenes, itjust needs to be pulled
together, which we're going tobe trying to do over the next

(39:33):
little while here. So that wecan pinpoint what they want and
when they want, those things aredefinitely on the horizon. And
the way we teach is going tochange with virtual reality. So
there's, there's a really a lotcoming up here.

Yeah, it's good.
I mean, you know, it's anexciting time to be a young
person. It's exciting time to bein education as well if you're
willing to embrace those changesin that excitement, not just
with the AI but with with othertechnologies. So your job isn't
just fixating. I know you'reasked me to buy AI like I am.
But really looking across thelandscape of what technologies
are emerging and and how do weas educators respond to those
respond to those changes intechnologies in addition to AI

(40:10):
rich, what

else? So what I think one of the biggest markets
for for job creation and jobdemand is in you, and I've
talked about this a little bitis integrators for automation.
And, and at some point, AI willbe a part of that. And it is
already but just for small andmedium sized businesses, and

(40:32):
even some of the large ones,right, that we are already in
the good old days of havingenough employees like right,
think about that now, right?
With the data bears that outpretty significantly, and
specifically right into the mid,probably mid to late 30s. Of a
declining workforce. So we're inthe good old days now. And it's
already painful, right? The waythrough this is not to say, you

(40:53):
know, how do we just get moreemployees from other states,
because they're all goingthrough the same thing? You
know, we looked at this, I'm amember of the Waukesha County
Business Alliance. And we Yeah,right. And so we had a, we put
together a Workforce Solutionsleadership Task Force, and we
looked at education, we hadimmigration attorneys come in,
we looked at Veterans, and allof those, you know, attraction

(41:15):
campaigns, and all those things.
None of that matters anymore,those days are gone. Because the
bodies aren't there. So in orderto survive, and then thrive, we
have a responsibility in highereducation. But I also think
government is going to need tohelp here too, because this is
big dollar left, but integrator,so we're going to be building a

(41:39):
program that is going tobasically educate people how to
walk into any plant anywhere inthe world, and have a CEO say to
them, I need you to completelyredesign this with automation
and artificial intelligence,because you might have a robot
here, a human here, a robotthere, an old school conveyor
belt, but you need to completelyrevolutionize your operation. In

(42:02):
order to stay in business, wehave to be delivering what are
called integrators, who mightwork at a company for 30 years
might be consultants of aconsulting integrating company.
But that's one of the big nextthings to deal with this
employment shortage. And sowe're in the process of
developing that program. Now,you're hitting

the nail on the head, by the way, in that I have
a really good friend, in theform of a gentleman that runs
everybody would recognize thecompany. And I'm not gonna
mention it just so I don'tpreach a competence. But he he
runs automation for a hugefortune 500 company globally. So
any automation that takes place,that's that's what he does. And
he told me not too long ago, hesaid, you know, our biggest

(42:44):
challenge is finding people thatcan integrate technology. And
when we say integrators, for ourlisteners, most of them already
know. But that means I've got aconveyor, and I've got a machine
tool, and I've got a metalstamping, punch press or a press
brake, or a turret press, anassembly robot, a conveyor, a
programmable logic controller, avariable frequency drive, in all
these different them, I'm justscratching the surface, right?

(43:06):
We could talk for another 10minutes, smart sensors, smart
devices, all of this stuff thatwe're now putting together into
a manufacturing operation andautonomous one or automated one,
he's like, there's nobody thatwe can find that has that skill
set. But he does. And you'regonna find this is really good
news. He said, it's easier forme to hire somebody with a two
year associate degree inelectromechanical technology and

(43:29):
automation, and get them into myplan and upskill them around
integration that it is for me tofind a four year engineer with
this kind of mechanical, or anelectrical engineering degree.
And of course, there areexceptions, I'm not picking on
our on our four yearinstitutions. But he said, it's
easier for me to find somebodyfrom a Technical Community
College and upskill them aroundthose skills. And what you're
saying is, let's not force himto do that. Let's give him that
person coming right out of ourcollege with those with those

(43:51):
competencies and abilities. AndI think you're spot on.

Absolutely. So the way I see it, and it will, I
might be 2%, right. But the wayI see it is it's going to be a
massive, massive industry forfor employment in the
integration piece. There will belarge companies and you can
think of them big fortune 500,where they might have 3040
people and that's all they do isintegrate their entire careers.

(44:15):
And then smaller midsize will beworking with consultants. And so
I imagine there'll be largeconsultant companies getting
started actually, if I were 18years old, I would be going into
this program, taking somemanagement courses, and then
starting my own integrationcompany is going to be that

it is in our air already. Is that right? You
can't he can't find enough ofthose folks. That's that's a
it's going to be so much fun towatch to watch that rollout. And
I think you're I think you'reway ahead of yourself on on the
whole idea of integration andhow it's going to transform the
world of manufacturing. And italready is. So you know, you
talked about I like the way youput it the good old days in
terms of employment, right, astough as it is. And it's been

(44:51):
hard for you know, I've been outof manufacturing for seven,
eight years. It was impossibleseven, eight years ago, and it's
even harder now and in whatyou're telling me in the data
proves that out is that youthink it's bad today, if your
solution is we're just going towait till there's more people,
you're going to be out ofbusiness before you find those
people, we have the samechallenge and education, you
know, where we're finding thatif you look at the demographic

(45:12):
trends between now and likethree, four or five years from
now, there's a huge shift in thenumber of individuals, just
demographically that are goingto be available for being
recruited into higher education,not to mention the fact that as
we continue to blow up themodel, I think that even puts
more pressure, we can't justcount on the next, you know, the
next group of 4000 students tostart, you know, a year from now

(45:33):
on their on their pathway towarda toward a degree program. So
the same demographics we'refacing in industry you're facing
in education. Talk a little bitabout the demographic shift in
terms of the next generation,that is now maybe, you know,
seventh, eighth, ninth grade,yeah. In how that is going to
affect higher education, andthen what we should be doing
about it. Yeah,

no, you're right on, you know, if it's a problem
with humans, here, it's aproblem with humans everywhere
as the demographic thesignificant decline overall. And
this is across every state,except for a couple that are
really going to experience this.
In in Wisconsin, we startedexperiencing this in 2022. And
so just to give you an example,right, for the listeners out

(46:14):
there, in Waukesha County wherewe reside, which is just outside
of Milwaukee, we know that weare going to lose between last
year and 2030, to about justunder 13%, of the graduating
high school class size, right.
And that's a good metric inother parts of the state, it's

(46:34):
20%. And that's true of countiesacross the country, in different
states all over the place. Youknow, a little bit of this,
quite honestly, somebody whospent their career in higher
education is embarrassing. Andthe reason I say that is because
we knew this was coming, right?
We saw this coming in 2008. Butwe were focused on the

(46:55):
recession, and, and unbelievabledemand that we experienced when
people were being laid off. Andthen after that subsided, there
wasn't enough attention paid tothis. And so what higher
education did, it might besomething a little bit more than
nothing, but not much. And sothat's why you've got university

(47:16):
systems and states that werebuilt for the exponential growth
of the 50s and 60s with the sameinfrastructure. And you know, we
have that here in Wisconsin, wehave an infrastructure for all
of us public private to yourfour year profit nonprofit, that
is built for a much, much biggerpopulation, and with the
assumption that it was going tocontinue to grow. So at WC TC,

(47:38):
one of the great benefits isthat, and the technical college
system is the generation that'scoming in. So Generation Z. And
you know, I know, as I say this,the parents of Gen Z's might
think, nope, that's not my kid.
But by and large, they're farmore practical. They want an

(47:59):
education, that leads to a job.
That's the number one thing,that's the biggest transition.
And I saw this in Florida, too,in about 2016 students started
coming in, and instead ofsaying, I think I'd like to
study this, or I want to learnabout this, they started coming
in in droves, saying, I need toknow what my job is going to be,
and what is my career gonna be?

(48:20):
And what are my options like,and that was a dramatic shift
from the millennials to Gen Z.
The other thing is, they'relooking for a skinny college
experience. And what theresearchers and authors call
skinny college experiencebecause they don't want to pay
for any fluff. So by and large,they're they're not paying for
the more expensive residencehalls at a four year, they're
not buying the more expensivemeal plans. And so it's it's
it's changing higher educationoverall, because it was really

(48:44):
built for Gen, the millennials,Gen Z, Gen X, some baby boomers.
And this is very different. Soin the Tech College system,
well, we're well positioned,because students are really
returning to, I need a job in acareer, right. And the careers
that we provide, often paybetter than any other option

(49:05):
that they might have. And it'sno longer dark, dusty, dirty,
we're talking about technologyand and even in manufacturing,
it's just unbelievable howhighly skilled and trained
people have to be to, to work inthose industries. So we are
actually expanding. So we're, asI've talked to my board of dress
trustees, our approach is not tocut around the edges, like maybe

(49:26):
some of our colleagues are doingor being forced to, you know, in
all fairness, but we'reinvesting in facilities and
infrastructure. We're startingnew programs. You know, my
philosophy is that if you're ataxpayer in the district that
supports us, I'm responsible forproviding every taxpayer with an
opportunity or an option. Sowe're really moving into the

(49:50):
space of becoming acomprehensive regional College.
Right so we offer everythingfrom you know, diesel mechanic
to artificial intelligence. torobotics, to business to
marketing, to now all of theliberal arts, right, we offer
liberal arts Associate of ArtsAssociate of Science, because we
need to deliver. And so our waythrough this is to grow. And to

(50:12):
work more closely with highschools, with industry and with
our university partners, and notto cut but to invest and grow.

Yeah, I think you're really, really wise to be
thinking about it that way. Imentioned earlier, being at the
American Technical EducationAssociation Conference not long
ago, one of the speaker's wasthe senior vice president, and I
wish I had written his name, notI have it somewhere of the
American Association ofCommunity Colleges. And in every
once in a while you're sittingin a meeting, you're sitting in
a presentation, and somethingjust really, really sticks. And

(50:42):
one of the things that thisgentleman said was, he said, if
you look at across the UnitedStates, we have about 1.9
million people every year, thatgraduate from four year
institutions with a degree. Hesaid, 42% of those people go
into careers that don't requirea four year degree. So you
probably already familiar withthat. But I'm going to put it I

(51:03):
love it when somebody takes dataand just puts it that
succinctly. And it's like, Oh,my goodness,

yeah. And many of those students, you know,
there's double digit percentageof students who come to us well
already have a baccalaureatedegree, and then realize there's
something else that I need. Andno, you know, the four year
institutions do a wonderful job.
I mean, we've got outstandinguniversities in our state, but
you know, things are shiftingand changing. I am happy to say
that with all the the discussionof, you know, declining student

(51:30):
populations and those types ofthings. This year, we're up 4%,
in our enrollment, and ourapplications for summer and fall
are up in the double digits,we're getting

close to the end of our time with with rich
Barnhouse, who's the presidentof Waukesha County Technical
College, a true innovator, atrue disrupter, and somebody
that is never short on really,really good advice, I'm going to
give you an opportunity to givereally good advice to yourself.
And I'm going to turn the clockback to the 15 year old, rich
Barnhouse. And ask you thisquestion. Rich, if you had one

(52:03):
piece of advice that you couldoffer to the 15 year old you,
what is that piece of advice,

I've got two thoughts, one is enjoy your hair
while you've got. Because youthink it's gonna last forever.
And if you're male, many are

still enjoying yours? Well,

I've got no, I know that's to come. Right. So
but it's definitely, you know, Ihave to wear a hat or sunscreen
on the top of my head, which isa little embarrassing. So I'd
say enjoy your hair while you'vegot it. But the other thing is,
I would, I would say, you know,in in thinking, I spent, I don't
know, 1011 12 years in college,you know, various degrees, I

(52:41):
would say, pick the very bestprogram, at the very best price.
And, and then go into it. And,and don't worry about thinking I
need to go to this or to thatinstitution or whatever. Because

(53:04):
all that really matters is whatyou can deliver. And I would say
don't take on debt. Don't takeon unnecessary debt, when you're
1819 20. In college, you know,get ahead, pick the very best
program at the very best price,and go and knock it out of the
park. And, and don't listen towhat magazines or media are

(53:24):
saying and, and, you know, talkto people in industry. And it's
difficult to get somebody who's15 1617 to do that, say, you
know, go and talk to the peoplewho are running these companies
who are on the shop floors thatare doing what you want to do,
whatever that is and ask them,What do I need? Where should I
go? You know, do I need to spend$50,000 a year? Or can I spend

(53:49):
$3,000 A year and get thatadvice? Because it sets you up
for life in a so much betterway?

Absolutely. You know, as I think about, you
know, just a couple of things.
First of all, the idea of thevery best program at the very
best price, certainly plenty ofexamples of that it was shot at
County Technical College. Andfor that matter, it had plenty
of Technical and Communitycolleges across the country, but
but you're doing it particularlywell. And all that matters is
what you can deliver. I lovethat line too, as well as
succinct as the one I offeredabout the 1.9 million and the

(54:16):
42%. All that matters is whatyou can deliver in the end.
That's right. I mean, the marketis going to pay you what you
mean proportion of what kind ofvalue you can add. And in more
and more that's all about whatare your competencies, what are
your skills and what's yourexperience? And what can you do
for me next, then how manydozens of years did you spend
that and whatever educationpathway you went through all

(54:37):
kinds of great advice. You know,all that matters is what you can
deliver you deliver plenty hereon the tech guy podcast and
thank you for being with us.

Thanks for having me. much. Appreciate it.

Thanks for joining us for this episode of
The Tech Ed podcast. If youhaven't already, subscribe,
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AI-Driven Learning: Empowering Students, Teachers, and Workers Alike - Dr. Rich Barnhouse, President of WCTC

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}AI-Driven Learning: Empowering Students, Teachers, and Workers Alike - Dr. Rich Barnhouse, President of WCTC