Ever wondered if there's a light at the end of the tunnel for those grappling with severe mental health challenges? In this episode, we promise you'll gain a new perspective on the transformative power of ketamine-assisted therapy. Join us as Bryn Ghio, a mom of two and a recent master's graduate in interior design, takes us through her emotional and academic struggles. She shares how her dedicated therapist Crystal from Life Works Professional Counseling and the groundbreaking use of ketamine therapy have given her the strength to overcome postpartum depression and academic hurdles. Bryn's journey is a testament to the life-changing potential of innovative mental health treatments and the importance of a supportive therapeutic relationship.
But Bryn's story is just the beginning. We also explore the experience of another individual who has battled depression, anxiety, and trichotillomania since childhood. Despite trying various traditional therapies and SSRIs, it was ketamine therapy that offered immediate and lasting relief. The episode delves into their first session, where they felt an unparalleled sense of joy and mental clarity. As we move to Bryn's professional life, we learn about her passion for interior design and how she documents her healing journey on social media. Follow Bryn on Instagram and Facebook through Farmstead Design Studio for continual inspiration. This episode is a beacon of hope for anyone seeking new solutions for managing mental health issues.
Website: https://homeonthefarmstead.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/homeonthefarmstead/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/farmsteaddesignstudio/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryn-ghio
We are happy and honored to be part of your life changing health and wellness journey:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome friends, back to the tele wellness hub
podcast.
I'm Marta Hamilton, your host,and I'm so excited to start part
three of our series on ketamineassisted therapy.
We've heard from Crystal, theowner of a group practice based
out of Virginia LifeWorksProfessional Counseling.
(00:20):
In part one.
If you haven't listened to partone or two, I do recommend you
do, because she gives an amazingoverview of what ketamine is,
how it's used asketamine-assisted therapy.
In part two of our series, wetalked to other clinicians who
have sat in sessions and justhave seen the transformation and
the amazing power inketamine-assisted therapy for
(00:46):
their clients, and so today weget to speak with Bryn Geo.
She has herself gone through aketamine-assisted therapy
session with Crystal, so we'regoing to get to get an insight
on all levels we started withfrom Crystal, the clinicians and
also someone who's experiencedketamine-assisted therapy
(01:08):
herself.
So welcome, brynn.
Thank you so much for joiningtoday.
Thank you so much for having me.
I was really inspired by thisseries as a clinician series.
As a clinician, just hearingall the research and the amazing
(01:29):
opportunities for healing forpeople, and also personally
having undergone therapy myselfand just hearing what I've been
hearing about just the abilityto have amazing transformation
or insight, to have such asupportive environment and just
the hope that can come as partof someone's healing journey.
(01:51):
I'm just so grateful thatyou're willing to come on here
and share your perspective,because I had so many questions
and I think a lot of listenersalso have questions.
It's relatively new.
There may not be a lot sharedbecause this happens behind
private doors and it can be soindividual and personal.
(02:13):
So I'm very grateful you'rehere today and I can't wait to
dive into your experience.
But before we do that, couldyou share a little bit about
yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Absolutely Uh.
So I um, like I shared before,um, I am a mom, um of two, and
currently live in uh, virginia,but I have lived um, in North
Carolina, tennessee.
It's my second time in Virginiaand, originally from California
, we've moved around a lot formy husband's job, but I have
(02:50):
been in the wedding industrysince 2009.
And I currently just graduated,a couple of weeks ago, with my
master's degree in science andinterior design, you know, and
just sort of trying to figureout what this next season of
life is going to look like.
And I mean, actually it's kindof been a big part of that.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh, wow, okay, Well, awesome, yeah, I.
That's why I loved before wehit record.
You know we're talking aboutkids and kids ages and what's
next, and and just yourcongratulations, I should say,
to your master's.
(03:30):
I think sometimes people maynot know well who would use
ketamine and often we hear as itbeing an option, especially
with trauma, and this is a tool,a modality that's available for
a lot of people and I love thatyou're coming on here and
you're in school, you're a momlike you're sharing, like you've
.
This is available to people andI think sometimes we don't know
(03:54):
like well, do I fit the thelike?
Could I benefit from it?
Do I, you know, do other momsdo this too?
And I, I love that you'resharing this.
And I, you know, do other momsdo this too?
And I love that you're sharingthis.
And I'm curious you said thatit's been a big part of your
journey If you could share alittle bit about how that came
about.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Absolutely so.
Graduate school, you know, itopens up so many different
levels yourself that you did notknow you thought you had healed
.
There's new layers, newtriggers, new wounds, and grad
school, you know, is toughacademically, but then
(04:36):
emotionally.
Having a family I was anout-of-state online student.
You know, all of these thingscombined, I couldn't have done
grad school without my therapiststudent.
You know, all of these thingscombined, I couldn't have done
grad school without my therapist, crystal, who I actually
started seeing her in 2017, 2016.
So it's been quite a while andpart of your life.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
she knows, she knows oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And she just happened to be when I lived closer to
where she is.
She just happened to be theclosest therapist and she just
happened to be when I livedcloser to where she is.
She just happened to be theclosest therapist and we clicked
really well and she's the onlytherapist I've ever made
progress with, and I have seen11 or 12 in my life and I have
some furious therapist traumafrom from some of them, furious
(05:28):
therapist trauma from from someof them.
So, you know, for it was reallyimportant for me to once I
found her, to continue with her,and so, you know, there's been
different journeys and ebbs andflows and everything.
And since I moved back toVirginia and started seeing her
via telehealth which, my gosh,telehealth is amazing yeah, you
know, I started I was havingpostpartum depression after my
(05:51):
second and it I went back ontoan SSRI and I kind of I also had
trauma surrounding SSRIs as achild and so I've always been
very apprehensive when I havehad to go back on it.
And this time I was like youknow what, if I have to be on
(06:13):
this for life, then I have to beon this for life, if this is
what is going to help, you know,set my baseline then.
That's just where I need to be,need to be.
And in grad school I was havinga really hard time getting my
thesis to like, actuallyfinishing it.
I was having a lot of a hardtime with a lot of my papers and
(06:35):
my research papers and I wouldjust get in this overwhelmed
state of like I had too manyideas, I didn't know where to go
, I couldn't focus and it was aproblem in, you know, in
actually finishing what I neededto finish.
And Crystal had brought up hey,I've been looking into ketamine
(06:56):
, you know, I think that you'dbe a really great fit for this,
and so I started exploring itand, luckily, luckily, when I
started ketamine, it was right,as I was in like the crunch time
of my thesis.
Um, I do not think that I wouldhave finished my thesis without
ketamine.
Um, I do not know that I couldhave done the amount of work
(07:20):
that I did in my thesis withoutketamine Um, so it was a really
big change for me.
You know, personally, my familysees it, friends see it, and
it's just a completely differentoutlook.
That changed even how I wasapproaching, you know, my thesis
(07:42):
in graduate school.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So, yeah, Well, yeah, that sounds major because
that's such a big yes part of itsounds like there was like a
block and so so much, so often,especially, you know, after you
have a child we're both moms.
I know that specifically withpostpartum it's so there can be
so many things.
It could be overwhelming withit in general, navigating that,
(08:08):
plus you were in graduate school, plus difficulty kind of with
that, the tasks.
I don't know if there wereother things that were.
Maybe you mentioned earlierthat grad school can bring up
some wounds or things that youthought you had healed.
Was that part of what wasdifficult?
When it came with the thesisthat ketamine helped, I'm I'm
(08:30):
curious, yeah, what shifts youexperienced?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So I'm definitely a perfectionist and a detail
oriented, like minute details,like down to the minutia, and so
sometimes I get stuck in thoseand it's because there's so many
of those details I can getoverwhelmed because I have all
the data and all the things, Ijust don't necessarily, um,
can't make that next stepbecause I might forget something
(08:57):
or I might do it wrong, um, andso it was really hard in, you
know, some of the in, like mythesis of like, okay, I just
need to put something out.
Like you know, you get to apoint where you're like I just
need some data and I just need,I just need a paper to put it
together, and I was having ahard time with that.
And I also, like you know, withdepression and anxiety.
(09:22):
You know, oftentimes I describeit like I have typically about,
you know, multiple browsersopen in my brain and each
browser, like there's a pastbrowser, a present browser and a
future browser, and then eachbrowser has probably like a
hundred tabs open and so I'mtrying to keep track of all
those things all at the sametime.
It's overwhelming, like youcan't function at your best, I
(09:45):
get, you know, fatigued reallyeasily and so just because, like
my brain is running in so manydifferent circles and so with
ketamine it helps me to feelmore mindful and present, and so
I feel like I have been able toclose the past browser, close
the present browser or thefuture present browser or the
future browser, and just keepthe present browser open, close
(10:08):
all the tabs and then just bringup a tab in the present that's
for the past or for the future.
So I'm not stuck in as much inthe fight or flight of you know,
the trauma and triggers andthings like that.
You know, which helps in beingable to fully process and be
(10:30):
more present and like openingyourself up for that, that
stillness and space and more of.
Instead of worrying about whatam I going to do after my
master's degree, what am I goingto do after I finish this
thesis?
What am I going to do after mymaster's degree?
What?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
am I going to do after I finish this thesis?
And just, yeah, yeah, that's anincredible metaphor.
I could definitely yeah, Ipainted a picture, I'm a visual
person and maybe that's also forme, but I could imagine that.
How overwhelming that would beand how wonderful to to close
the tabs, to focus on thepresent.
I mean that would be, yeah,incredible.
(11:04):
When it came to deciding to goahead and schedule this session.
I mean, how did it go about?
It sounds like she mentionedthat you might be a good
candidate for this.
Were there any concerns?
Were there any uncertainties?
Were you Googling things?
Can you talk us through justkind of your experience from
(11:25):
like initial thought, becausesome people might be listening
and say, maybe this is somethingthat I could be a candidate for
and there may be some stuff inbetween and just to kind of
normalize it but also share thatyou know you're not alone in
this kind of from thoughtprocess and maybe therapy trauma
from other therapists too, Ithink unfortunately, as a
therapist myself, I know howdifficult that is that that
(11:49):
exists, but the fact that youfound someone you clicked with,
you're making progress.
They mentioned this.
Maybe you're a candidate fromthere to actually doing it.
Can you share a little bitabout that kind of journey?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Definitely so.
Um Crystal mentioned it and she, you know, was able to send me
over a bunch of um you knowresearch that she has she's
incredible she really is.
I love her so much, um, you know, so like she had there were
links, there were videos, youknow, and so, yeah, so like it
was, like you know, academicresearch.
(12:25):
It was, you know, therapiststalking about it, clients
talking about their experiencesand stuff.
I did a lot of you know justresearch on Google and like I
found some like Reddit threadsof like people going through
their own journeys and sort oftalking about like their
experiences and stuff.
It definitely was scary andlike nerve, nerve wracking to be
(12:53):
like I don't know, just likethese you know air quotes, drugs
that you know, you know airquotes, drugs that you know
often get, you know, growing upin the 90s it was drugs are bad.
You do drugs, you will die, youknow, and so like there's this
whole connotation that like, asI've grown up, I have had to
(13:13):
shed and I've become much morenatural-minded and crunchy and
you know more into the.
You know just the natural herbsand like healing and things
like that.
And so, thinking about you knowwhat, what I was initially told
(13:34):
about all these things and nowthat the research is coming out
about all these different thingsand, like you know, marijuana
used to be the gateway drug andnow marijuana is.
You know it can be used for somany different treatments and
health and so many differentthings and it's being, you know,
legalized, and so now it's.
But it's hard to wrap yourbrain around that when you know
(13:56):
some of those things have beeningrained over and over and over
.
So, and I have, I'm like agoody goody, I've never done
like recreational drugs, likenever smoked marijuana, you know
.
So like for me to go like itwas kind of, um, you know very
much a a trust process in termsit was, you know, trusting
(14:20):
Crystal, trusting myself, um,which is something I'm still
working on.
That's one really big thing.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, trusting yourself.
I could see that yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
That, like you know, this experience could be and
there's always that hope of thiscould be the one.
This could be the experiencethat changes everything for me.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Have you tried other things?
Oh sorry, I didn't mean tointerrupt.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Oh, I was actually just going to say yes.
So, I mean, I've been in andout of therapy since a child, I
don't know, like nine years old,so I have depression, anxiety
and trichotillomania, and Istarted pulling when I was five.
So I have tried anything andeverything in terms of, like you
(15:07):
know, for pulling, trying notto pull, you know, fake nails,
nail polish, short nails, longnails, you know, snapping rubber
bands, all of those type ofthings.
You know I've been on SSRIs,lots of different therapeutics,
therapists doing differentmethods and things like that,
(15:32):
and with Crystal, I did do EMDR,and I did see quite a bit of
success with EMDR quite a bit ofsuccess with EMDR.
The interesting thing, though,is that I feel like ketamine is
like EMDR on steroids, like thethings that I had, like
discoveries I made.
(15:53):
Doing EMDR have it was likeokay, I see this, now how do I
change it?
Because those pathways are sorutted into your brain, and so
the changing part was difficult,whereas with ketamine, because
it's making those newconnections, it, you know, um,
after my ketamine sessions, Imade the connections in my brain
and they have been rewired inmy brain, and so now I'm able to
(16:15):
carry them into everyday life.
So it was a really, you know,dramatic change, um, you know
know, for especially the veryfirst two sessions oh, wow From
the first session, oh yeah, wowFrom the very first session.
I started my first session.
It was like end of January,beginning of February, and I've
(16:39):
done I think it's five so far.
February and I've done.
I think it's five so far.
And so there's it's.
It's just like a completely newoutlook in some ways, and like
one of the ways that I have beentrying to describe it to people
is that I can tell you, youknow what the absence of
depression and anxiety shouldlook like and should feel like,
(17:03):
but because even my highesthighs are have always been
tinged with depression andanxiety, I could never actually
know what it was like.
You know, I've never broken myarm.
I can tell you what I think itfeels like, but until I break my
arm I don't actually know.
And so it's.
It's a very different, you know, that visceral feeling of
(17:24):
actually feeling it versus justtalking about.
You know what you think itwould feel like.
So it's been very I'm like oh,this is how people feel without
depression, anxiety.
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Wow, yeah, and how amazing.
I mean since nine years old,I'm hearing, or five years old
with the trickle down.
What a relief, I mean how, whata gift to have that.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Absolutely yeah, like it's definitely given much more
, you know, hope and just peacein a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Um, just peace in a lot of ways.
Yeah, and you mentioned fromthat first session.
If you don't mind sharing alittle bit about what your first
session experience was like,cause I've heard that everyone
is different.
Some people might want to useeye masks, some people get
excited people talk.
Some people wait till later.
I understand there's anintegration session.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, yeah, so I can be very verbose and so I stayed
true for most of my session andit crystal even said she was
like your session did not go howI expected it to go, was like
(18:44):
your session did not go how Iexpected it to go.
Um, and it was reallyinteresting because the first
time on ketamine and the firstcouple of sessions I was like a
little kid.
I was just like she.
Crystal was like I've neverseen this side of you.
I've never seen this likesilliness and joy and like I was
just like playful and you.
So it really felt like it wasable to unlock and like showcase
(19:09):
, like my inner child.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Wow, I imagine it being free, like freeing for
your inner child, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, especially since you know like she has had
to do so much to protect me, youknow, throughout my life, with
all the trauma and everything,and so you know like she has had
to do so much to protect me,you know, throughout my life,
with all the trauma andeverything, and so you know, it
kind of felt like this was oneof the first times that she was
able to just be a kid and justbe so.
I was, you know, talkative andsilly and you know, just
(19:38):
spirited, and towards the end ofthe session I mean it was a
good, I think it was like 30 or45 minutes um, crystal said I
just stopped talking and I justsat and I was just quiet and
like I didn't say anything and Iwas just like you know,
crystal's, like what's going on,are you okay?
like, and I was just like I justam, I'm just'm just being, and
(20:03):
so it was just yeah, which isnot something, especially, you
know, when your mind is going athousand miles a minute, like
that's not something I normallydo.
So it was.
It was sort of like get all thethings out, like do all this
processing and then I was likeletting it percolate.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Wow yeah.
How incredibly restorative foryour brain, your mind, your
spirit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Absolutely Definitely .
Speaker 1 (20:32):
The whole thing was about three hours, maybe, right,
yeah, three hours.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, it's about three hours.
You know from the start all thesetup and everything doing the
session and then the end ofsession checklist and then I
think it's within 24 or 48 hours.
We've always done 24 hours.
We do like a one hourintegration session and so we
(20:58):
just sort of go back and talkabout the insights, the
connections, what she saw, whatshe experienced, what I saw and
experienced.
And then actually after thislast session, I just started
doing this, so I've been voicerecording all of my sessions and
integration sessions.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I was going to ask do you?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
remember what you experienced.
You remember everything.
You remember everything.
It's not like you know, youlike you're blacked out or
something.
No, no, like you're, um, you'refully aware it's just,
sensations are like magnified,like wow, I, I'm already a very
visual person and like thethings that I like see and like
(21:41):
I'm like you know, feelingcolors.
Yeah it's, it's wild, um, so,um, but not scary.
No, mine has not been scary atall, like my, um, none of my
sessions have been bad or scaryor overwhelming in any negative
(22:05):
way.
They have all been.
It's sort of been where I needto go, when I need to go there,
you know, and again trusting inthe universe, trusting in myself
that I'm going to get what Ineed out of the session.
And then, you know, one of thethings that the because I was
(22:28):
really nervous about some of thelike dosing and things like
that.
And in talking with theprescribing doctor, she was like
you need to figure out what youcan do to take this where
you're safe and brave.
And that has been sort of mymotto is like okay, how can I be
safe and brave, you know?
(22:49):
So, like when I took like causethey have like different like
dosing and like schedules, andlike you can take some of it
like one part and then wait 20minutes and like this it's you
know this whole thing.
And we were going to try doingit the entire dose all at one
time and it really scared me.
Like I was like I don't feel,like I have control.
And she was like well, do whatmakes you feel safe and brave.
(23:12):
And so I was like I need to dothis in person with Crystal,
yeah.
And so, like I was like let'syou know figure out how we can
make this happen.
And since, like once, I didthat, I was like, okay, I'm good
, like you know I can do it.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah Well, that's incredible.
Then it just sounds reallyempowering, still Cause I was
curious, do you remember what isit like?
And even with the dosage, itsounds like you know there's a
lot of empowerment, it soundslike and freedom, and I love
that you're able to record thesessions.
(23:48):
I think that's probably reallycool and to kind of to integrate
, I guess.
Do your integrate session butalso link back and remember yeah
again.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So what I started doing during this last session
because this last session was alittle bit different than some
of my other ones and I actuallydid feel like I had maybe, um,
like some places where I waslike, whoa, I'm not ready to go
there.
I don't know what this walk is,but I'm not ready to go there
and so I decided, um over thelast week that I was going to,
(24:19):
um, listen to them instead of a,like I usually do, like a sleep
hypnotherapy.
So I put them on for when I goto bed, cause I also have really
vivid dreams and do a lot ofprocessing in my dreams.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And so.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I've been, you know, monday or like I did it over the
weekend, and so like theweekend and Monday and Tuesday I
was kind of like, eh, notreally good with this.
And by Wednesday I was like I'mgood, like I found peace, and
Crystal was like what shifted?
What did you do different?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You're like, I listened to my thing.
What a great idea to just be.
It's kind of self, it'sself-empowerment in so many ways
, through so many modalities,through this, from the first
session even.
It sounds like that'sincredible if you were to share
something in terms of maybesomeone's listening and they're
(25:12):
not sure about ketamine assistedtherapy, but they really feel
like wow, like maybe this is forme.
I've been in therapy before.
I I still, like you said, youknow, I still feel this like
lingering depression, anxiety,or I have blocks from my trauma.
I think maybe this is for me.
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think that being open is, you know, and that
growth mindset is one of thebest things you can do for
yourself.
And you know, if youautomatically say no, you're
never going to know.
Yeah, you know, whereas ifyou're open to exploring and the
(26:00):
opportunities and perhaps withyou know what comes in at the
right time, you never know whatmight come up.
I know that it can be veryscary and has a you know, really
kind of bad connotation with it, which I think sometimes, like
that can be.
(26:20):
The hardest part is gettingover your preconceived notions
about something you know and sogoing into it with that open
mindset and that open opennessto see maybe from a different
perspective.
You know there's there's somany things that you miss
(26:41):
because you're too closed off.
Whereas you know, being open, itmight just be the right time,
the right person, the righttherapist and you know, you
never know yeah, it might justchange your life.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, no, truly.
I mean, that's amazing.
I'm so grateful that you shared, because you were living a full
life and it sounds like youwere able to.
like you said, you were open andit was the right therapist the
right time and it has changedyour life, and in an amazing way
(27:15):
.
So I'm so grateful that you'reyou've been willing to share and
the details of it you know of,of what you experienced and what
you thought before going intoit, and and just kind of an
insight for those who areconsidering it, because your
conversation might just changesomeone's life or be the first
kind of butterfly for them tostart on their own journey to to
(27:38):
change their life.
So I'm so grateful for youbeing a part of other people's
journey in that way.
If, um, I know that you youhave, uh your your interior
design work that you're doing,um I I would encourage maybe
listeners if they want to followyou, if that's okay.
We talked about that.
You know how can people um seewhat you share, cause you shared
(28:00):
before.
We recorded that.
You know you do share aboutthis journey on social media, um
, if people want to connect orfollow you there, what's the
best way?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, definitely so.
My business is farmstead designstudio.
Um, you can find me on umInstagram or Facebook.
Um, and, yeah, I have sharedquite a bit of my uh healing
journey and excited to share,you know, um this podcast, when,
when it comes out, andeverything as well.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yes, and I'll, I'll include it in the show notes and
we'll, we'll, we'll tag Bryn ineverything so you know, um,
just to kind of where to followher and that she continues to
share with with, with everything.
So, Bryn, thank you so much,truly again, for for sharing and
for being a part of ourwellness journey.
Thank you so much.
Welcome friends, back to the tele wellness hub
podcast.
I'm Marta Hamilton, your host,and I'm so excited to start part
three of our series on ketamineassisted therapy.
We've heard from Crystal, theowner of a group practice based
out of Virginia LifeWorksProfessional Counseling.
(00:20):
In part one.
If you haven't listened to partone or two, I do recommend you
do, because she gives an amazingoverview of what ketamine is,
how it's used asketamine-assisted therapy.
In part two of our series, wetalked to other clinicians who
have sat in sessions and justhave seen the transformation and
the amazing power inketamine-assisted therapy for
(00:46):
their clients, and so today weget to speak with Bryn Geo.
She has herself gone through aketamine-assisted therapy
session with Crystal, so we'regoing to get to get an insight
on all levels we started withfrom Crystal, the clinicians and
also someone who's experiencedketamine-assisted therapy
(01:08):
herself.
So welcome, brynn.
Thank you so much for joiningtoday.
Thank you so much for having me.
I was really inspired by thisseries as a clinician series.
As a clinician, just hearingall the research and the amazing
(01:29):
opportunities for healing forpeople, and also personally
having undergone therapy myselfand just hearing what I've been
hearing about just the abilityto have amazing transformation
or insight, to have such asupportive environment and just
the hope that can come as partof someone's healing journey.
(01:51):
I'm just so grateful thatyou're willing to come on here
and share your perspective,because I had so many questions
and I think a lot of listenersalso have questions.
It's relatively new.
There may not be a lot sharedbecause this happens behind
private doors and it can be soindividual and personal.
(02:13):
So I'm very grateful you'rehere today and I can't wait to
dive into your experience.
But before we do that, couldyou share a little bit about
yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Absolutely Uh.
So I um, like I shared before,um, I am a mom, um of two, and
currently live in uh, virginia,but I have lived um, in North
Carolina, tennessee.
It's my second time in Virginiaand, originally from California
, we've moved around a lot formy husband's job, but I have
(02:50):
been in the wedding industrysince 2009.
And I currently just graduated,a couple of weeks ago, with my
master's degree in science andinterior design, you know, and
just sort of trying to figureout what this next season of
life is going to look like.
And I mean, actually it's kindof been a big part of that.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh, wow, okay, Well, awesome, yeah, I.
That's why I loved before wehit record.
You know we're talking aboutkids and kids ages and what's
next, and and just yourcongratulations, I should say,
to your master's.
(03:30):
I think sometimes people maynot know well who would use
ketamine and often we hear as itbeing an option, especially
with trauma, and this is a tool,a modality that's available for
a lot of people and I love thatyou're coming on here and
you're in school, you're a momlike you're sharing, like you've
.
This is available to people andI think sometimes we don't know
(03:54):
like well, do I fit the thelike?
Could I benefit from it?
Do I, you know, do other momsdo this too?
And I, I love that you'resharing this.
And I, you know, do other momsdo this too?
And I love that you're sharingthis.
And I'm curious you said thatit's been a big part of your
journey If you could share alittle bit about how that came
about.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Absolutely so.
Graduate school, you know, itopens up so many different
levels yourself that you did notknow you thought you had healed
.
There's new layers, newtriggers, new wounds, and grad
school, you know, is toughacademically, but then
(04:36):
emotionally.
Having a family I was anout-of-state online student.
You know, all of these thingscombined, I couldn't have done
grad school without my therapiststudent.
You know, all of these thingscombined, I couldn't have done
grad school without my therapist, crystal, who I actually
started seeing her in 2017, 2016.
So it's been quite a while andpart of your life.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
she knows, she knows oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And she just happened to be when I lived closer to
where she is.
She just happened to be theclosest therapist and she just
happened to be when I livedcloser to where she is.
She just happened to be theclosest therapist and we clicked
really well and she's the onlytherapist I've ever made
progress with, and I have seen11 or 12 in my life and I have
some furious therapist traumafrom from some of them, furious
(05:28):
therapist trauma from from someof them.
So, you know, for it was reallyimportant for me to once I
found her, to continue with her,and so, you know, there's been
different journeys and ebbs andflows and everything.
And since I moved back toVirginia and started seeing her
via telehealth which, my gosh,telehealth is amazing yeah, you
know, I started I was havingpostpartum depression after my
(05:51):
second and it I went back ontoan SSRI and I kind of I also had
trauma surrounding SSRIs as achild and so I've always been
very apprehensive when I havehad to go back on it.
And this time I was like youknow what, if I have to be on
(06:13):
this for life, then I have to beon this for life, if this is
what is going to help, you know,set my baseline then.
That's just where I need to be,need to be.
And in grad school I was havinga really hard time getting my
thesis to like, actuallyfinishing it.
I was having a lot of a hardtime with a lot of my papers and
(06:35):
my research papers and I wouldjust get in this overwhelmed
state of like I had too manyideas, I didn't know where to go
, I couldn't focus and it was aproblem in, you know, in
actually finishing what I neededto finish.
And Crystal had brought up hey,I've been looking into ketamine
(06:56):
, you know, I think that you'dbe a really great fit for this,
and so I started exploring itand, luckily, luckily, when I
started ketamine, it was right,as I was in like the crunch time
of my thesis.
Um, I do not think that I wouldhave finished my thesis without
ketamine.
Um, I do not know that I couldhave done the amount of work
(07:20):
that I did in my thesis withoutketamine Um, so it was a really
big change for me.
You know, personally, my familysees it, friends see it, and
it's just a completely differentoutlook.
That changed even how I wasapproaching, you know, my thesis
(07:42):
in graduate school.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So, yeah, Well, yeah, that sounds major because
that's such a big yes part of itsounds like there was like a
block and so so much, so often,especially, you know, after you
have a child we're both moms.
I know that specifically withpostpartum it's so there can be
so many things.
It could be overwhelming withit in general, navigating that,
(08:08):
plus you were in graduate school, plus difficulty kind of with
that, the tasks.
I don't know if there wereother things that were.
Maybe you mentioned earlierthat grad school can bring up
some wounds or things that youthought you had healed.
Was that part of what wasdifficult?
When it came with the thesisthat ketamine helped, I'm I'm
(08:30):
curious, yeah, what shifts youexperienced?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So I'm definitely a perfectionist and a detail
oriented, like minute details,like down to the minutia, and so
sometimes I get stuck in thoseand it's because there's so many
of those details I can getoverwhelmed because I have all
the data and all the things, Ijust don't necessarily, um,
can't make that next stepbecause I might forget something
(08:57):
or I might do it wrong, um, andso it was really hard in, you
know, some of the in, like mythesis of like, okay, I just
need to put something out.
Like you know, you get to apoint where you're like I just
need some data and I just need,I just need a paper to put it
together, and I was having ahard time with that.
And I also, like you know, withdepression and anxiety.
(09:22):
You know, oftentimes I describeit like I have typically about,
you know, multiple browsersopen in my brain and each
browser, like there's a pastbrowser, a present browser and a
future browser, and then eachbrowser has probably like a
hundred tabs open and so I'mtrying to keep track of all
those things all at the sametime.
It's overwhelming, like youcan't function at your best, I
(09:45):
get, you know, fatigued reallyeasily and so just because, like
my brain is running in so manydifferent circles and so with
ketamine it helps me to feelmore mindful and present, and so
I feel like I have been able toclose the past browser, close
the present browser or thefuture present browser or the
future browser, and just keepthe present browser open, close
(10:08):
all the tabs and then just bringup a tab in the present that's
for the past or for the future.
So I'm not stuck in as much inthe fight or flight of you know,
the trauma and triggers andthings like that.
You know, which helps in beingable to fully process and be
(10:30):
more present and like openingyourself up for that, that
stillness and space and more of.
Instead of worrying about whatam I going to do after my
master's degree, what am I goingto do after I finish this
thesis?
What am I going to do after mymaster's degree?
What?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
am I going to do after I finish this thesis?
And just, yeah, yeah, that's anincredible metaphor.
I could definitely yeah, Ipainted a picture, I'm a visual
person and maybe that's also forme, but I could imagine that.
How overwhelming that would beand how wonderful to to close
the tabs, to focus on thepresent.
I mean that would be, yeah,incredible.
(11:04):
When it came to deciding to goahead and schedule this session.
I mean, how did it go about?
It sounds like she mentionedthat you might be a good
candidate for this.
Were there any concerns?
Were there any uncertainties?
Were you Googling things?
Can you talk us through justkind of your experience from
(11:25):
like initial thought, becausesome people might be listening
and say, maybe this is somethingthat I could be a candidate for
and there may be some stuff inbetween and just to kind of
normalize it but also share thatyou know you're not alone in
this kind of from thoughtprocess and maybe therapy trauma
from other therapists too, Ithink unfortunately, as a
therapist myself, I know howdifficult that is that that
(11:49):
exists, but the fact that youfound someone you clicked with,
you're making progress.
They mentioned this.
Maybe you're a candidate fromthere to actually doing it.
Can you share a little bitabout that kind of journey?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Definitely so.
Um Crystal mentioned it and she, you know, was able to send me
over a bunch of um you knowresearch that she has she's
incredible she really is.
I love her so much, um, you know, so like she had there were
links, there were videos, youknow, and so, yeah, so like it
was, like you know, academicresearch.
(12:25):
It was, you know, therapiststalking about it, clients
talking about their experiencesand stuff.
I did a lot of you know justresearch on Google and like I
found some like Reddit threadsof like people going through
their own journeys and sort oftalking about like their
experiences and stuff.
It definitely was scary andlike nerve, nerve wracking to be
(12:53):
like I don't know, just likethese you know air quotes, drugs
that you know, you know airquotes, drugs that you know
often get, you know, growing upin the 90s it was drugs are bad.
You do drugs, you will die, youknow, and so like there's this
whole connotation that like, asI've grown up, I have had to
(13:13):
shed and I've become much morenatural-minded and crunchy and
you know more into the.
You know just the natural herbsand like healing and things
like that.
And so, thinking about you knowwhat, what I was initially told
(13:34):
about all these things and nowthat the research is coming out
about all these different thingsand, like you know, marijuana
used to be the gateway drug andnow marijuana is.
You know it can be used for somany different treatments and
health and so many differentthings and it's being, you know,
legalized, and so now it's.
But it's hard to wrap yourbrain around that when you know
(13:56):
some of those things have beeningrained over and over and over
.
So, and I have, I'm like agoody goody, I've never done
like recreational drugs, likenever smoked marijuana, you know
.
So like for me to go like itwas kind of, um, you know very
much a a trust process in termsit was, you know, trusting
(14:20):
Crystal, trusting myself, um,which is something I'm still
working on.
That's one really big thing.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, trusting yourself.
I could see that yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
That, like you know, this experience could be and
there's always that hope of thiscould be the one.
This could be the experiencethat changes everything for me.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Have you tried other things?
Oh sorry, I didn't mean tointerrupt.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Oh, I was actually just going to say yes.
So, I mean, I've been in andout of therapy since a child, I
don't know, like nine years old,so I have depression, anxiety
and trichotillomania, and Istarted pulling when I was five.
So I have tried anything andeverything in terms of, like you
(15:07):
know, for pulling, trying notto pull, you know, fake nails,
nail polish, short nails, longnails, you know, snapping rubber
bands, all of those type ofthings.
You know I've been on SSRIs,lots of different therapeutics,
therapists doing differentmethods and things like that,
(15:32):
and with Crystal, I did do EMDR,and I did see quite a bit of
success with EMDR quite a bit ofsuccess with EMDR.
The interesting thing, though,is that I feel like ketamine is
like EMDR on steroids, like thethings that I had, like
discoveries I made.
(15:53):
Doing EMDR have it was likeokay, I see this, now how do I
change it?
Because those pathways are sorutted into your brain, and so
the changing part was difficult,whereas with ketamine, because
it's making those newconnections, it, you know, um,
after my ketamine sessions, Imade the connections in my brain
and they have been rewired inmy brain, and so now I'm able to
(16:15):
carry them into everyday life.
So it was a really, you know,dramatic change, um, you know
know, for especially the veryfirst two sessions oh, wow From
the first session, oh yeah, wowFrom the very first session.
I started my first session.
It was like end of January,beginning of February, and I've
(16:39):
done I think it's five so far.
February and I've done.
I think it's five so far.
And so there's it's.
It's just like a completely newoutlook in some ways, and like
one of the ways that I have beentrying to describe it to people
is that I can tell you, youknow what the absence of
depression and anxiety shouldlook like and should feel like,
(17:03):
but because even my highesthighs are have always been
tinged with depression andanxiety, I could never actually
know what it was like.
You know, I've never broken myarm.
I can tell you what I think itfeels like, but until I break my
arm I don't actually know.
And so it's.
It's a very different, you know, that visceral feeling of
(17:24):
actually feeling it versus justtalking about.
You know what you think itwould feel like.
So it's been very I'm like oh,this is how people feel without
depression, anxiety.
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Wow, yeah, and how amazing.
I mean since nine years old,I'm hearing, or five years old
with the trickle down.
What a relief, I mean how, whata gift to have that.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Absolutely yeah, like it's definitely given much more
, you know, hope and just peacein a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Um, just peace in a lot of ways.
Yeah, and you mentioned fromthat first session.
If you don't mind sharing alittle bit about what your first
session experience was like,cause I've heard that everyone
is different.
Some people might want to useeye masks, some people get
excited people talk.
Some people wait till later.
I understand there's anintegration session.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, yeah, so I can be very verbose and so I stayed
true for most of my session andit crystal even said she was
like your session did not go howI expected it to go, was like
(18:44):
your session did not go how Iexpected it to go.
Um, and it was reallyinteresting because the first
time on ketamine and the firstcouple of sessions I was like a
little kid.
I was just like she.
Crystal was like I've neverseen this side of you.
I've never seen this likesilliness and joy and like I was
just like playful and you.
So it really felt like it wasable to unlock and like showcase
(19:09):
, like my inner child.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Wow, I imagine it being free, like freeing for
your inner child, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, especially since you know like she has had
to do so much to protect me, youknow, throughout my life, with
all the trauma and everything,and so you know like she has had
to do so much to protect me,you know, throughout my life,
with all the trauma andeverything, and so you know, it
kind of felt like this was oneof the first times that she was
able to just be a kid and justbe so.
I was, you know, talkative andsilly and you know, just
(19:38):
spirited, and towards the end ofthe session I mean it was a
good, I think it was like 30 or45 minutes um, crystal said I
just stopped talking and I justsat and I was just quiet and
like I didn't say anything and Iwas just like you know,
crystal's, like what's going on,are you okay?
like, and I was just like I justam, I'm just'm just being, and
(20:03):
so it was just yeah, which isnot something, especially, you
know, when your mind is going athousand miles a minute, like
that's not something I normallydo.
So it was.
It was sort of like get all thethings out, like do all this
processing and then I was likeletting it percolate.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Wow yeah.
How incredibly restorative foryour brain, your mind, your
spirit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Absolutely Definitely .
Speaker 1 (20:32):
The whole thing was about three hours, maybe, right,
yeah, three hours.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, it's about three hours.
You know from the start all thesetup and everything doing the
session and then the end ofsession checklist and then I
think it's within 24 or 48 hours.
We've always done 24 hours.
We do like a one hourintegration session and so we
(20:58):
just sort of go back and talkabout the insights, the
connections, what she saw, whatshe experienced, what I saw and
experienced.
And then actually after thislast session, I just started
doing this, so I've been voicerecording all of my sessions and
integration sessions.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I was going to ask do you?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
remember what you experienced.
You remember everything.
You remember everything.
It's not like you know, youlike you're blacked out or
something.
No, no, like you're, um, you'refully aware it's just,
sensations are like magnified,like wow, I, I'm already a very
visual person and like thethings that I like see and like
(21:41):
I'm like you know, feelingcolors.
Yeah it's, it's wild, um, so,um, but not scary.
No, mine has not been scary atall, like my, um, none of my
sessions have been bad or scaryor overwhelming in any negative
(22:05):
way.
They have all been.
It's sort of been where I needto go, when I need to go there,
you know, and again trusting inthe universe, trusting in myself
that I'm going to get what Ineed out of the session.
And then, you know, one of thethings that the because I was
(22:28):
really nervous about some of thelike dosing and things like
that.
And in talking with theprescribing doctor, she was like
you need to figure out what youcan do to take this where
you're safe and brave.
And that has been sort of mymotto is like okay, how can I be
safe and brave, you know?
(22:49):
So, like when I took like causethey have like different like
dosing and like schedules, andlike you can take some of it
like one part and then wait 20minutes and like this it's you
know this whole thing.
And we were going to try doingit the entire dose all at one
time and it really scared me.
Like I was like I don't feel,like I have control.
And she was like well, do whatmakes you feel safe and brave.
(23:12):
And so I was like I need to dothis in person with Crystal,
yeah.
And so, like I was like let'syou know figure out how we can
make this happen.
And since, like once, I didthat, I was like, okay, I'm good
, like you know I can do it.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah Well, that's incredible.
Then it just sounds reallyempowering, still Cause I was
curious, do you remember what isit like?
And even with the dosage, itsounds like you know there's a
lot of empowerment, it soundslike and freedom, and I love
that you're able to record thesessions.
(23:48):
I think that's probably reallycool and to kind of to integrate
, I guess.
Do your integrate session butalso link back and remember yeah
again.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So what I started doing during this last session
because this last session was alittle bit different than some
of my other ones and I actuallydid feel like I had maybe, um,
like some places where I waslike, whoa, I'm not ready to go
there.
I don't know what this walk is,but I'm not ready to go there
and so I decided, um over thelast week that I was going to,
(24:19):
um, listen to them instead of a,like I usually do, like a sleep
hypnotherapy.
So I put them on for when I goto bed, cause I also have really
vivid dreams and do a lot ofprocessing in my dreams.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And so.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I've been, you know, monday or like I did it over the
weekend, and so like theweekend and Monday and Tuesday I
was kind of like, eh, notreally good with this.
And by Wednesday I was like I'mgood, like I found peace, and
Crystal was like what shifted?
What did you do different?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You're like, I listened to my thing.
What a great idea to just be.
It's kind of self, it'sself-empowerment in so many ways
, through so many modalities,through this, from the first
session even.
It sounds like that'sincredible if you were to share
something in terms of maybesomeone's listening and they're
(25:12):
not sure about ketamine assistedtherapy, but they really feel
like wow, like maybe this is forme.
I've been in therapy before.
I I still, like you said, youknow, I still feel this like
lingering depression, anxiety,or I have blocks from my trauma.
I think maybe this is for me.
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think that being open is, you know, and that
growth mindset is one of thebest things you can do for
yourself.
And you know, if youautomatically say no, you're
never going to know.
Yeah, you know, whereas ifyou're open to exploring and the
(26:00):
opportunities and perhaps withyou know what comes in at the
right time, you never know whatmight come up.
I know that it can be veryscary and has a you know, really
kind of bad connotation with it, which I think sometimes, like
that can be.
(26:20):
The hardest part is gettingover your preconceived notions
about something you know and sogoing into it with that open
mindset and that open opennessto see maybe from a different
perspective.
You know there's there's somany things that you miss
(26:41):
because you're too closed off.
Whereas you know, being open, itmight just be the right time,
the right person, the righttherapist and you know, you
never know yeah, it might justchange your life.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, no, truly.
I mean, that's amazing.
I'm so grateful that you shared, because you were living a full
life and it sounds like youwere able to.
like you said, you were open andit was the right therapist the
right time and it has changedyour life, and in an amazing way
(27:15):
.
So I'm so grateful that you'reyou've been willing to share and
the details of it you know of,of what you experienced and what
you thought before going intoit, and and just kind of an
insight for those who areconsidering it, because your
conversation might just changesomeone's life or be the first
kind of butterfly for them tostart on their own journey to to
(27:38):
change their life.
So I'm so grateful for youbeing a part of other people's
journey in that way.
If, um, I know that you youhave, uh your your interior
design work that you're doing,um I I would encourage maybe
listeners if they want to followyou, if that's okay.
We talked about that.
You know how can people um seewhat you share, cause you shared
(28:00):
before.
We recorded that.
You know you do share aboutthis journey on social media, um
, if people want to connect orfollow you there, what's the
best way?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, definitely so.
My business is farmstead designstudio.
Um, you can find me on umInstagram or Facebook.
Um, and, yeah, I have sharedquite a bit of my uh healing
journey and excited to share,you know, um this podcast, when,
when it comes out, andeverything as well.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yes, and I'll, I'll include it in the show notes and
we'll, we'll, we'll tag Bryn ineverything so you know, um,
just to kind of where to followher and that she continues to
share with with, with everything.
So, Bryn, thank you so much,truly again, for for sharing and
for being a part of ourwellness journey.
Thank you so much.
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