Discover the secrets to building a thriving practice and achieving work-life balance with Joe Sanok, founder of Mental Wellness Counseling and Practice of the Practice. Joe takes us through his inspiring journey from a solo practitioner to a sought-after consultant, helping countless clinicians find joy and success. Learn about his book, "Thursday is the New Friday," and how it advocates for a flexible work schedule that prioritizes both professional and personal fulfillment.
Unlock efficient time management strategies that can transform your daily routine. Hear about incidents like a school IT issue that threw parents’ schedules into chaos, and learn how to avoid the pitfalls of double-booking. Joe and I share actionable tips on batching tasks, leveraging neuroscience for productivity, and outsourcing non-essential work, all while setting short-term, measurable goals to ensure business adaptability and success.
Plan for your practice's future with our strategic growth advice, aiming for a 25% sales boost. We cover everything from optimizing clinician time to tackling operational challenges like no-shows and insurance policies. Get introduced to essential tools like Asana for project management and discover the resources offered by Practice of the Practice, including their extensive podcast library and a comprehensive 28-step checklist. This episode is packed with insights to help you grow your practice and enhance your well-being.
Website: https://practiceofthepractice.com/
We are happy and honored to be part of your life changing health and wellness journey:
https://telewellnesshub.com/explore-wellness-experts/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marta Hamilton TeleWell (00:00):
Welcome , friends, to the Telewellness
Hub podcast, a space wherelistening is not just a simple
passive act, it's an act ofself-care.
I'm Marni Hamilton, your host,and today you are listening in
to my chat with Joe Sanik.
As a highly trained clinicianwith two master's degrees and
the founder of Mental WellnessCounseling, joe Sanik, with a
master's, has also establishedhimself as a leading figure in
(00:22):
private practice consultingthrough his role as founder and
lead consultant at Practice ofthe Practice.
Through this organization, joehelps fellow practitioners
achieve their dreams of buildingsuccessful practices that bring
them true joy, and hisextensive knowledge and
experience have earned him aglobal reputation as an
authority in this field.
(00:42):
He is also the acclaimed authorof Thursday is the new Friday
how to work fewer hours, makemore money and spend time doing
what you want.
In addition to being featured intalk to your publications like
Harvard business review andForbes, joe is a frequent guest
on podcasts, including thehighly popular Smart Passive
(01:04):
Income Podcast, which boasts anaudience of over 100,000 monthly
listeners worldwide, andactually, over the last decade,
joe has conducted over 1,000interviews with some of the
world's leading business leaders, scholars and innovators,
establishing himself as a highlysought-after interviewer and
media personality.
Welcome, joe.
Hey, marta, glad to be here.
(01:26):
So this is full circle, becausemy first podcast interview ever
as a guest was on your podcast,the Practice of the Practice,
which is also a top podcastworldwide.
I saw that wasn't included inyour bio, but I feel like it's
definitely worth mentioning.
You've accomplished a lot.
(01:46):
My first question for you iswhy do you do the wellness work
that you do?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (01:53):
You know, I think it starts with
that I didn't know what I wasdoing in running a practice.
You know, I mean, I started acounseling practice.
At the time that I started it,there just weren't a lot of
consultants out there and I justwas curious I would meet
somebody about, say, seo orabout how to update your website
(02:14):
or marketing, and it was allbrand new to me.
I didn't go to an MBA programor anything like that and so I'd
be learning these things and Ijust thought other people need
to hear this.
And so, really early on, I juststarted recording it and
started a podcast.
You know, now that's a thousandepisodes ago, but launched that
, you know, just over 10 yearsago.
(02:34):
And it's one of those thingsthat, over time, I realized I
really enjoy doing this work ofhelping people build a thriving
practice they absolutely love.
And so it's interesting how,when it started, it was just to
help my own practice to growthat, to help my own clients to
have better SEO, inboundmarketing, things like that, so
that the people we wanted toserve could find us.
(02:55):
But then now we get to helpthousands of therapists do that
same thing, and so just I thinkthat scalability side of it I
sold my practice in 2019.
And so just I think thatscalability side of it you know,
I sold my practice in 2019.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness (03:11):
And so now I get to support
wellness providers that aregrowing their private practices.
Yeah, you know, and I was one ofthose providers originally, so
it's interesting the evolutionof how things grow.
I never imagined myself havinga podcast doing tele-wellness
hub I was just trying to launchmy practice so it's incredible
how your endeavor really hasthis butterfly effect, this
ripple effect of touching somany lives of other wellness
(03:33):
providers in all arenas.
I know you work with people inthe mental health space and
outside of that as well, peopletrying to amplify their voice,
reach more people and transformmore lives ultimately.
So there are probably so manypeople listening, perhaps who's
who are interested in mentalhealth and wellness, who maybe
their providers have followedsome of your tools and tips and
(03:55):
maybe I think that's really coolto be a part of that.
And you know when, when I wastalking a little bit about your
bio talk and right now and yousharing about helping thousands
of providers and the scalabilityaspect outside from running a
practice, doing website, helpingpeople with SEO and writing a
(04:16):
book, can you share a little bitabout that transition?
(04:39):
Yeah?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the Pr (04:40):
I think I noticed I was covering
the same thing over and over inconsulting and also in our
membership communities, andthere's a barrier to access
there, where you know if I'mcovering these same things.
I wanted to have a way that ifpeople can't spend $1,000 a
month to work with me or someonefrom our team or you know, they
(05:00):
can't spend a couple hundreddollars a month to be in one of
our membership communities, howdo they get at least the basic
information while also takingthese concepts that seem unique
to private practice but reallycan help people in general
business as well?
So I didn't want to lose mycurrent audience as I wrote the
book.
So that was, first and foremost, the people that listen to the
(05:21):
podcast, the people that are intherapy practices and in
wellness practices.
I wanted them to be able tocome along while also saying
these aren't just unique to us,and so I actually worked with a
writing coach to really sortthrough.
You know what was it that wasmost unique about what I was
saying?
And over and over we just cameback to.
You know I don't like workingthat much.
I mean, I enjoy the work I do,but my life isn't defined, my
(05:46):
ego is not defined by who I amAt a party.
If someone asks what I do, sureI tell them, but that's not
central to who I am, even thoughthe list of stuff you said it's
great that I've been featuredall those places.
Ultimately, I want to helppeople.
I want to help my family, Iwant to be able to live a life
that I have flexibility, that ifmy kid gets sick, that it's not
(06:06):
the end of the world or thatI'm worrying about how many
vacation days I have to count ina year.
I want to be able to have thatflexibility and also offer that
to other people, either ourconsulting clients or our
employees.
And so, as I think about thebook, it was well then, how do I
conceptualize that?
And so we broke it up intothree parts, as many nonfiction
books are, and the first part isidentifying what's already
(06:27):
inside of you, your internalinclinations, then moving into
slowing down, which the researchhas found if you slow down
before you try to do really bigwork, you do better work.
You know, our aha moments comewhen we're taking a shower, when
we're out for a walk, it's notwhen we're stressed out and
maxed out.
And then after that, how do weabsolutely kill it?
And so that metaphor of thefour-day work week or working
(06:48):
less and saying how do we dothat?
Either practically or in sayingI'm really busy, I can't quite
do that, but how do Iincorporate the neuroscience
into how I work so I can worksmarter?
Those are the things that justreally amped me up as I wrote
the book.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness (07:04):
And that's so important with
burnout being so high and withproviders.
Right now, it looks like 90% ofprivate practice providers are
women.
A majority of them 75% havestated they're burnt out because
of the many roles that theyplay.
Like you mentioned.
I don't think it's unique towomen.
Like you mentioned, you want tobe able to be a parent and show
(07:25):
up for your kids and be able toshow up for your clients as
well, to be present and reallywork on all the things the
continuing education, theethical and legal standards when
it comes to notes and billingand all the things.
But also be able to show up,like you mentioned, with
intention and looking at thoseinternal inclinations is so
(07:49):
helpful for providers.
But you're right, it's notunique, necessarily just to our
field, so I love that you wereable to really hit a large
audience with that.
When it comes to scaling, youmentioned something that I think
is helpful for providers,especially because we work under
the billable hour right, likewe have allotted times for
(08:13):
providers where we can even tryto squeeze in.
You know, taking a sip of waterbio break, like our time is
really really important asproviders, but also for the
general audience, for people whoare looking at how to scale
using time.
How can you scale using time?
Any tips and insight for us?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (08:34):
Yeah , I think one thing that I see
all the time and whether it's myconsulting with people that are
growing practices or even solopractices in our next level
practice program is people don'thave the point of view Usually
I don't want to make a universalstatement, but usually people
don't have the point of viewthat every minute I'm working is
time that I'm stealing from myfamily, I'm stealing from my
(08:56):
life, I'm stealing from myhobbies, I'm stealing from just
my own wellness, and so if wehad that level that you are
taking from a different area ofyour life, that means that when
you dink around and you don't soburned out that you're doing
work, that you make mistakes.
Like even just you know, overthe last couple of days, my
(09:28):
daughters there was this big ITthing that happened in their
school system and you know sothey were given school off for
two days in addition to thebreak that we just had.
Yeah, like they, who knows whatwas going on?
Like even the principal I raninto him at the barbershop and
he's just like I don't even knowwhat's going on.
It's so classified.
And so I'm dealing with thesekids.
I've got all these podcastsgoing on and two different
(09:48):
groups of people were trying tojust schedule something socially
and they both scheduled thesame day at the same time and I
told both of them that I wasfree during that time because
nothing was in my calendar andliterally within about half an
hour of each other, both groupswith like 10 or 15 people had
confirmed that time.
So it wasn't just like me and afriend.
I worked poorly when I wasstressed, because now I'm double
(10:14):
booked with two groups I caredeeply about and I still, at the
moment of this recording, don'tknow who I'm going to peace out
on.
Am I going to split my time?
We do that all the time in ourbusiness, where we're checking
emails at night, we're makingmistakes, we're submitting
insurance claims that getrejected because we put the
wrong code in.
If you honestly just went andwatched Netflix and then woke up
the next day and did stuff orwhatever you do for your own
downtime, you'd probably do abetter job with it.
(10:34):
So I would start with make sure, when you're working, that you
are working well, that you'reusing the neuroscience to
actually inform how to do betterwork during that time, that
you're using the neuroscience toactually inform how to do
better work during that timethat you're batching your time,
that you're doing sprints, thatyou're understanding that, hey,
you could do a 45-minute session, always end on the 45 minutes
because you're in that 45 to 52minutes, and schedule your next
(10:55):
session right after that andthen do three of those and then
do all your progress notes atonce for those three or four
sessions and then do that veryefficiently.
There's ways that we canstructure our time to be
billable, even if we're just asolo practice.
Then I would also start to lookat what are those areas that
you should not be doing in yourpractice.
You may enjoy it, you may likeit, but that you really should
(11:16):
be outsourcing it.
So typically it's answering thephones, scheduling intakes,
updating our website, writing.
Typically it's answering thephone, scheduling intakes,
updating our website, writingblog posts, marketing, even
scheduling, networking things.
Those are all things you couldbe spending $20 to $35 an hour
to have someone go through alist of.
Okay, I want you to just look atall the people that don't see
couples on psychology today.
I want you to reach out to themon my behalf and try to get
(11:37):
some coffee dates with me.
That may take that person threehours and at $40 an 40 bucks an
hour.
You know that's 120 bucks anhour that you're, or 120 bucks
you're paying for three hours.
That's one counseling sessionwith a mild paying insurance
payment.
So you just multiplied yourtime from one hour of counseling
to pay for three hours ofnetworking.
So as we start to think aboutthat scalability it's not always
(11:58):
hiring clinicians that may bepart of the equation but even
saying what's extra draining forme, what's a not great use of
my time, and how do I make surethat almost everything I'm doing
is either billable orincreasing the overall billing
of the practice?
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness H (12:15):
I love that.
And so when you, it's all anumbers game, right, it sounds
like you're just looking at howcan I maximize my time?
How much time do I need, whatis my time worth, to looking at
that and being able to slow down, probably, so you're not so
stressed out and just trying todo the day-to-day things to be
able to figure that out.
And that probably goes back tothose internal inclinations what
(12:37):
do I want to be spending mytime doing?
How do you then?
What's your approach to actualgoal setting and measuring that
progress, especially in asuccessful practice?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (12:49):
Yeah , so when we work with business
owners, one thing we look at istheir annual plan.
I hate three to five yearstrategic plans because who you
were three years ago, marta, isway different.
I knew you three years ago theway you thought three years ago,
marta is way different.
I knew you three years ago.
Oh yeah, the way you thoughtthree years ago.
Like if we had decided whatyou're doing today based on who
Marta was three years ago, youwould think too small, and so to
(13:10):
me it's important to do likesix to 12 months, and so what
that looks like typically islooking at two, maybe three key
performance indicators, and sooftentimes that's around sales
or how much money is coming intothe practice, and so oftentimes
that's around sales or how muchmoney is coming into the
practice.
Time is usually one of them.
And then sometimes we have anextra kind of goal, like we want
to launch an e-course or wewant to launch something that's
(13:30):
a little more scalable beyondthe practice.
Maybe we're hiring people in.
So then we have what are thosemeasures for each of those goals
?
So those KPIs, key performanceindicators.
Now we want to look at whatprojects need to happen quarter
by quarter.
So if you're, say, planning atthe end of the year, you're
looking for quarters one throughfour of next year, say you want
to boost sales, you want togrow by 25%, one project might
(13:52):
be optimizing your own time asone of the primary clinicians.
It might be that we also lookat are there ancillary services
that we could offer, eitherthrough your time or through
someone else?
It may be that you look athiring in a couple clinicians
into the practice.
It may be that you look at someincome that you're doing
presentations for localbusinesses through their HR
(14:12):
department, and so we want tousually establish three or four
projects that are going tosupport that.
Now, the important thing is,these aren't all your own
projects typically.
So it may be that part ofboosting your sales is to look
at your no-show rate.
Say, you're at 20% no-show andyou're not collecting on that.
Well then, we need to have aproject around just the
operations of collecting whensomeone no-shows and looking at
(14:36):
do all the insurances allow usto do that?
If you're billing insurance,there are some insurances that
don't allow you to collect forno-shows, so do we want to be on
those insurances?
So that might be, you know,quarter one we're going to
evaluate all the insurances anddecide which ones are not
allowing us to bill, and thismight be an executive assistant
you have.
Do that project.
You know.
Step two of quarter two might bethat they then contact you know
(14:59):
each of those insurances thatdon't allow you to collect, to
find out what's the process formoving off of those insurances
and moving into out-of-networktypes of benefits.
It might be that we in quartertwo send a letter to all of our
clients saying moving forward,we're collecting for no-shows
because right now we're at 20%no-show and we're not collecting
, so we're going to startcollecting on that and then
(15:21):
maybe we also have part of thatproject, be that that executive
assistant is looking at you knowwhat are the best practices to
reduce no-shows.
Like you give them that project, let them take it on, let them
research it, watch YouTubevideos.
They may then come up withideas like okay, if we just had
a dedicated phone that was fortexting people to remind them of
their sessions, or to usedifferent platforms to text
people to remind them, or can weset that up through our EHR?
(15:43):
There may be just little thingsthat in the onboarding if you
check, do you want text updatesand then they automatically get
a reminder.
Maybe you reduce your no-showsby 15%.
So that would be an example ofa project that then supports
making more money.
And then we might also look atokay, what's our out-of-network
fee?
Is that in line with where weshould be.
Maybe we need to raise it by25%, so those projects then
(16:06):
support the bigger KPI, and nowwe have, quarter by quarter,
what we need to be working on,and we can then say I'm not
going to think about all theother things until I get to that
quarter.
And so, for example, in practiceto practice, one thing that we
recognize one of our KPIs isaround operations, and the
number we gave it was our COO,sam, so she was getting sucked
into five to 10 meetings a week.
(16:27):
Our KPI is that she is in onlyone meeting a week.
That's not necessary, likethere's just some fire she needs
to put out, and that any newproject takes one meeting to
launch the new project, that webring the team together, we have
the conversation and then wesay when do we need to meet to
look at the progress of this?
So very functional meetings.
(16:47):
So part of that KPI, then, iswe need a better communication
system.
We're using Trello for a longtime.
And then her quarter one wasresearch the heck out of project
management systems.
So we ended up landing on Asana.
There's lots of other ones outthere.
So then her next step in thatproject was that sam learns
asana and then she teaches twokey people on the team how to
(17:08):
use asana, pokes holes in it sothat me and other team members
aren't learning it and like Idon't get this and they can't
answer questions, like they needto master it before they teach
us.
So then by the end of quarterone, you know we're all on board
with this.
We're all using asana.
That's how we communicate.
You know we're all on boardwith this.
We're all using Asana.
That's how we communicate.
Now you know she has to then,early on, do some teaching, even
to me to say stop texting me,stop sending me a WhatsApp, do
(17:30):
it in Asana.
It's like okay, like I'm notsupposed to do that except for
in Asana.
So when we start to createthese systems and very clear
measures, it then limits theamount that we need to work on
because we know, okay, quarterone we have, I have these four
projects.
I'm working on everything else.
I need to be doing therapy wise.
My executive assistant is doingthese things.
We're going to check in everyweek, every other week, see
(17:50):
where they're at, where they'restuck, and then we're going to
move forward on it.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness (17:53):
Hmm , yeah, you know, so much of
what you described to to mesounded like you're confronting
challenges with curiosity, right, like instead of just, I think,
so often just human nature.
We can get distraught, we canfeel guilt, we can feel
unsettled or we even just feeldiscouraged, like, okay, I can't
.
Like.
(18:13):
You mentioned the insurance.
You know I can't bill insurancewhen there's a no-show and just
kind of give up, but I lovethat you're confronting it, a
challenge, with curiosity.
I'm curious, you know, I keepgoing back to the internal
inclination because I love that.
I love the motivations behindyou know what it helps you
propel forward, because Irecently had a colleague talk
(18:33):
about you know, passions.
Passions can go up and down,they wane they, they change
their.
Your passion, it depends on theday, so many things, but your
true motivation on why you dosomething, that is what really
kind of sustains and propels youforward.
Um, what do you see are thebiggest blocks and challenges
for people to identify?
You know what am I?
Is this a block for me?
(18:55):
Um, kind of like you know,instead of me, instead of facing
these challenges with curiosity, I'm meeting X, y and Z feeling
or thought or belief system.
What are some of those thatyou've identified when working
with people.
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (19:11):
Yeah , I'm glad you bring it back to
the internal clinicians, becausewhen we were doing the research
for the book and looking at it,we found that there's really
only three things that topleaders do on a regular basis,
and for a lot of them it comesnaturally.
And that's why we've createdthis assessment that goes along
with that chapter in the book tosay, like, where are you at in
regards to these internalinclinations?
And the reason is it's not passfail, it's not like if you
(19:33):
don't have one of them thatyou're not a good leader.
It just means, okay, thatdoesn't come natural for me and
I need to work on that.
And so, just big picture, thethree internal inclinations are
curiosity, an outsider approachand the ability to move on it.
And so with curiosity forexample, people that are top
leaders, they don't have thispass fail mindset Say, you run a
(19:56):
Google ad campaign and youdon't get the outcomes that you
want Someone that has a passfail mindset can be like man, I
just dropped two grand on thatand I wasted that money.
I could have used that on afamily vacation, whereas someone
that has moved into curiosityto say OK, what did we learn
from this?
We learned what people don'twant.
We learned that these landingpages really aren't converting.
(20:18):
People click.
They get stuck there.
We need to improve that.
Let's do another round of someA-B testing for it.
You know the ability to move onit.
You know people that overthinkthings and are paralyzed by
perfection.
That doesn't help you.
You know in grad school whenyou're working on your thesis or
you're working on yourdissertation, yeah, you want
that to be perfect.
You don't want to stand infront of your committee and
(20:39):
defend it and have them tear itto pieces.
You want to feel really strongabout it.
But most of the time in businesswe can adjust.
We can put out a minimum viableproduct, get feedback and move
quickly on it instead ofoverthinking it.
And that outsider perspectivewe know that statistically,
outsiders have more influencethan insiders.
You even think about maybe whenyou're younger and didn't have
(21:00):
your own business and you got anew job.
Oftentimes that new person isable to question things in a way
that those that are alreadythere can't question it.
I remember I started working ata community college and they
were still like handwritingevery progress note in the
counseling department and thenfiling those notes by the day
that the person came in, noteven by their last name.
(21:20):
So if I wanted to find outwhere they were, I'd have to,
like, look at a handwrittencalendar, when did Jane Smith
come?
And they're like well, she camein May.
Okay, pull that one, it wasjust bonkers.
And so these three internalinclinations, if we can just
figure out where we at and thensay I'm going to work on that
first, it then sets us up to beable to slow down, well, and
(21:40):
then to absolutely kill it.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellnes (21:42):
Yeah , I love that you know.
When it comes to then, apractical approach or
orientation for creating thatperfect practice, this is more
for providers, becauseultimately, when providers have
that ultimate perfect practice,I mean it's just allows everyone
(22:06):
to thrive, right.
It's just so much fulfillmentin their work and so many lives
touched.
Maximized opportunities forappointments and trainings to
enhance the client experience.
What are some practicalapproaches for creating the
perfect practice that you candescribe?
We already know like okay, itlooks like looking at your
motivations, taking theassessment that you have,
slowing down any other tips thatyou can provide?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (22:28):
Yeah , and it's most simple.
There's only two things youneed to worry about.
One is how do people find you?
And two is what happens next?
Like, if you just simplify itto that almost everything in a
practice falls in one of thosecategories.
How do people find you?
And two is what happens next?
Like if you just simplify it tothat almost everything in a
practice falls in one of thosecategories.
How do people find you?
They went on tele-wellness huband they searched and they found
your name on there and said,well, I think I could work with
that person.
They Googled something.
(22:49):
They asked on Facebook doesanyone know a good child
therapist?
You know they texted theirfriends.
How do they find you?
So that's the marketing, that'sthe branding, that's the just
public facing things that you doof general awareness that you
exist.
And then what happens next?
That's the clinical track ofthey come in for an intake or
they call your front desk orthey drop an email, or maybe you
(23:10):
have an online calendar.
You have operations there, youhave the clinical work you do
and hopefully you have some sortof surveying.
Maybe it's a text message afterthe third session hey, we just
want to check in to see how yourclinical experience is going.
Then what happens when peopleare done with counseling so that
they want to refer to you?
Do we have any sort of qualityassurance?
Do we check in on that side too?
(23:35):
So if we just simplify it tothat and say what can I do right
now?
What's one thing that I can doin the side of how do people
find me?
Okay, there's some awarenessbuilding.
Maybe it's networking, maybeit's this month You're going to
just focus on that.
What's one thing you can do inregards to people coming in.
Maybe you evaluate the intakeprocess.
How do they reach out, and thenwhat happens?
And then we just start to workon those things and say what are
(23:55):
the best practices?
We don't need to do it all atonce.
You can say this month I'mgoing to work on just networking
and people knowing that I existin that way, and then this
month I'm going to work on whathappens.
Next I'm going to implement asurvey after session three and
maybe start super simple whereit's like very confidential, but
you just use a Google form sothere's no identifying
(24:16):
information in there, so youdon't need to worry about all
the business associatesagreements.
You look for that low hangingfruit.
So keeping it simple, becausethere are a million things you
can do to grow your practice,but really we just want to look
at those two sides of the coin.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness H (24:32):
I love keeping it simple.
I think it's so easy toovercomplicate things and it's
wonderful to have access toinformation, but it can be very
overwhelming, right?
Because we can get overwhelmedby our own Google searches and
the multiple things that show upand the things that we are
shown on different mediaplatforms.
So I love that you're keepingit simple and I am a true
(24:53):
testament.
I feel like I wouldn't do thisinterview justice.
I found Joe many years ago,after my twins were born, and I
just had this dream of how couldI use my time differently and
still be a therapist so I can beat home with my kids.
And I Googled and I found Joeand I love that you break it
(25:14):
down and keep it simple forpeople to really find a roadmap
to find success.
So I love that that you sharewith everyone.
How can people connect with you?
What's the best way?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (25:28):
Yeah , so practiceofthepracticecom.
We have a ton of resources.
We do a bunch of behind thescenes things like website
design, social media management.
We have one-on-one consultingand membership communities, so
poke around on the website.
The podcast is Practice of thePractice, super easy to find.
We have over a thousandepisodes there, so there's bound
to be a few things that you'llenjoy.
I'd say one of the best thingsthat can be helpful is we have a
(25:51):
28-step checklist for peoplejust getting started, or if you
want to audit your practice tosay, hey, did I do everything
right?
Sometimes you know you do yourbest at the beginning and you
miss a couple things, and so thebest way to download that is
over at practiceofthepracticecomforward, slash, new and then
you can just go through thatchecklist to make sure that you
got everything right.
You'll get some emails alsowalking you through those steps
(26:12):
to just audit your practice andthink through the best way to
continue to grow.
Marta Hamilton TeleWell (26:23):
Awesome .
I'd love to include thatchecklist actually in the show
notes so we'll make sure toinclude all that information for
people so people can find youand just really learn and grow.
It's been amazing to watch allthat you have done too over the
years to help providers andbeyond right With your book,
with your guest episodes onother podcasts like the Smart
Passive Income podcast.
So really appreciate all thework that you do and thank you
(26:46):
for being a part of our wellnessjourney.
Welcome , friends, to the Telewellness
Hub podcast, a space wherelistening is not just a simple
passive act, it's an act ofself-care.
I'm Marni Hamilton, your host,and today you are listening in
to my chat with Joe Sanik.
As a highly trained clinicianwith two master's degrees and
the founder of Mental WellnessCounseling, joe Sanik, with a
master's, has also establishedhimself as a leading figure in
(00:22):
private practice consultingthrough his role as founder and
lead consultant at Practice ofthe Practice.
Through this organization, joehelps fellow practitioners
achieve their dreams of buildingsuccessful practices that bring
them true joy, and hisextensive knowledge and
experience have earned him aglobal reputation as an
authority in this field.
(00:42):
He is also the acclaimed authorof Thursday is the new Friday
how to work fewer hours, makemore money and spend time doing
what you want.
In addition to being featured intalk to your publications like
Harvard business review andForbes, joe is a frequent guest
on podcasts, including thehighly popular Smart Passive
(01:04):
Income Podcast, which boasts anaudience of over 100,000 monthly
listeners worldwide, andactually, over the last decade,
joe has conducted over 1,000interviews with some of the
world's leading business leaders, scholars and innovators,
establishing himself as a highlysought-after interviewer and
media personality.
Welcome, joe.
Hey, marta, glad to be here.
(01:26):
So this is full circle, becausemy first podcast interview ever
as a guest was on your podcast,the Practice of the Practice,
which is also a top podcastworldwide.
I saw that wasn't included inyour bio, but I feel like it's
definitely worth mentioning.
You've accomplished a lot.
(01:46):
My first question for you iswhy do you do the wellness work
that you do?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (01:53):
You know, I think it starts with
that I didn't know what I wasdoing in running a practice.
You know, I mean, I started acounseling practice.
At the time that I started it,there just weren't a lot of
consultants out there and I justwas curious I would meet
somebody about, say, seo orabout how to update your website
(02:14):
or marketing, and it was allbrand new to me.
I didn't go to an MBA programor anything like that and so I'd
be learning these things and Ijust thought other people need
to hear this.
And so, really early on, I juststarted recording it and
started a podcast.
You know, now that's a thousandepisodes ago, but launched that
, you know, just over 10 yearsago.
(02:34):
And it's one of those thingsthat, over time, I realized I
really enjoy doing this work ofhelping people build a thriving
practice they absolutely love.
And so it's interesting how,when it started, it was just to
help my own practice to growthat, to help my own clients to
have better SEO, inboundmarketing, things like that, so
that the people we wanted toserve could find us.
(02:55):
But then now we get to helpthousands of therapists do that
same thing, and so just I thinkthat scalability side of it I
sold my practice in 2019.
And so just I think thatscalability side of it you know,
I sold my practice in 2019.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness (03:11):
And so now I get to support
wellness providers that aregrowing their private practices.
Yeah, you know, and I was one ofthose providers originally, so
it's interesting the evolutionof how things grow.
I never imagined myself havinga podcast doing tele-wellness
hub I was just trying to launchmy practice so it's incredible
how your endeavor really hasthis butterfly effect, this
ripple effect of touching somany lives of other wellness
(03:33):
providers in all arenas.
I know you work with people inthe mental health space and
outside of that as well, peopletrying to amplify their voice,
reach more people and transformmore lives ultimately.
So there are probably so manypeople listening, perhaps who's
who are interested in mentalhealth and wellness, who maybe
their providers have followedsome of your tools and tips and
(03:55):
maybe I think that's really coolto be a part of that.
And you know when, when I wastalking a little bit about your
bio talk and right now and yousharing about helping thousands
of providers and the scalabilityaspect outside from running a
practice, doing website, helpingpeople with SEO and writing a
(04:16):
book, can you share a little bitabout that transition?
(04:39):
Yeah?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the Pr (04:40):
I think I noticed I was covering
the same thing over and over inconsulting and also in our
membership communities, andthere's a barrier to access
there, where you know if I'mcovering these same things.
I wanted to have a way that ifpeople can't spend $1,000 a
month to work with me or someonefrom our team or you know, they
(05:00):
can't spend a couple hundreddollars a month to be in one of
our membership communities, howdo they get at least the basic
information while also takingthese concepts that seem unique
to private practice but reallycan help people in general
business as well?
So I didn't want to lose mycurrent audience as I wrote the
book.
So that was, first and foremost, the people that listen to the
(05:21):
podcast, the people that are intherapy practices and in
wellness practices.
I wanted them to be able tocome along while also saying
these aren't just unique to us,and so I actually worked with a
writing coach to really sortthrough.
You know what was it that wasmost unique about what I was
saying?
And over and over we just cameback to.
You know I don't like workingthat much.
I mean, I enjoy the work I do,but my life isn't defined, my
(05:46):
ego is not defined by who I amAt a party.
If someone asks what I do, sureI tell them, but that's not
central to who I am, even thoughthe list of stuff you said it's
great that I've been featuredall those places.
Ultimately, I want to helppeople.
I want to help my family, Iwant to be able to live a life
that I have flexibility, that ifmy kid gets sick, that it's not
(06:06):
the end of the world or thatI'm worrying about how many
vacation days I have to count ina year.
I want to be able to have thatflexibility and also offer that
to other people, either ourconsulting clients or our
employees.
And so, as I think about thebook, it was well then, how do I
conceptualize that?
And so we broke it up intothree parts, as many nonfiction
books are, and the first part isidentifying what's already
(06:27):
inside of you, your internalinclinations, then moving into
slowing down, which the researchhas found if you slow down
before you try to do really bigwork, you do better work.
You know, our aha moments comewhen we're taking a shower, when
we're out for a walk, it's notwhen we're stressed out and
maxed out.
And then after that, how do weabsolutely kill it?
And so that metaphor of thefour-day work week or working
(06:48):
less and saying how do we dothat?
Either practically or in sayingI'm really busy, I can't quite
do that, but how do Iincorporate the neuroscience
into how I work so I can worksmarter?
Those are the things that justreally amped me up as I wrote
the book.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness (07:04):
And that's so important with
burnout being so high and withproviders.
Right now, it looks like 90% ofprivate practice providers are
women.
A majority of them 75% havestated they're burnt out because
of the many roles that theyplay.
Like you mentioned.
I don't think it's unique towomen.
Like you mentioned, you want tobe able to be a parent and show
(07:25):
up for your kids and be able toshow up for your clients as
well, to be present and reallywork on all the things the
continuing education, theethical and legal standards when
it comes to notes and billingand all the things.
But also be able to show up,like you mentioned, with
intention and looking at thoseinternal inclinations is so
(07:49):
helpful for providers.
But you're right, it's notunique, necessarily just to our
field, so I love that you wereable to really hit a large
audience with that.
When it comes to scaling, youmentioned something that I think
is helpful for providers,especially because we work under
the billable hour right, likewe have allotted times for
(08:13):
providers where we can even tryto squeeze in.
You know, taking a sip of waterbio break, like our time is
really really important asproviders, but also for the
general audience, for people whoare looking at how to scale
using time.
How can you scale using time?
Any tips and insight for us?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (08:34):
Yeah , I think one thing that I see
all the time and whether it's myconsulting with people that are
growing practices or even solopractices in our next level
practice program is people don'thave the point of view Usually
I don't want to make a universalstatement, but usually people
don't have the point of viewthat every minute I'm working is
time that I'm stealing from myfamily, I'm stealing from my
(08:56):
life, I'm stealing from myhobbies, I'm stealing from just
my own wellness, and so if wehad that level that you are
taking from a different area ofyour life, that means that when
you dink around and you don't soburned out that you're doing
work, that you make mistakes.
Like even just you know, overthe last couple of days, my
(09:28):
daughters there was this big ITthing that happened in their
school system and you know sothey were given school off for
two days in addition to thebreak that we just had.
Yeah, like they, who knows whatwas going on?
Like even the principal I raninto him at the barbershop and
he's just like I don't even knowwhat's going on.
It's so classified.
And so I'm dealing with thesekids.
I've got all these podcastsgoing on and two different
(09:48):
groups of people were trying tojust schedule something socially
and they both scheduled thesame day at the same time and I
told both of them that I wasfree during that time because
nothing was in my calendar andliterally within about half an
hour of each other, both groupswith like 10 or 15 people had
confirmed that time.
So it wasn't just like me and afriend.
I worked poorly when I wasstressed, because now I'm double
(10:14):
booked with two groups I caredeeply about and I still, at the
moment of this recording, don'tknow who I'm going to peace out
on.
Am I going to split my time?
We do that all the time in ourbusiness, where we're checking
emails at night, we're makingmistakes, we're submitting
insurance claims that getrejected because we put the
wrong code in.
If you honestly just went andwatched Netflix and then woke up
the next day and did stuff orwhatever you do for your own
downtime, you'd probably do abetter job with it.
(10:34):
So I would start with make sure, when you're working, that you
are working well, that you'reusing the neuroscience to
actually inform how to do betterwork during that time, that
you're using the neuroscience toactually inform how to do
better work during that timethat you're batching your time,
that you're doing sprints, thatyou're understanding that, hey,
you could do a 45-minute session, always end on the 45 minutes
because you're in that 45 to 52minutes, and schedule your next
(10:55):
session right after that andthen do three of those and then
do all your progress notes atonce for those three or four
sessions and then do that veryefficiently.
There's ways that we canstructure our time to be
billable, even if we're just asolo practice.
Then I would also start to lookat what are those areas that
you should not be doing in yourpractice.
You may enjoy it, you may likeit, but that you really should
(11:16):
be outsourcing it.
So typically it's answering thephones, scheduling intakes,
updating our website, writing.
Typically it's answering thephone, scheduling intakes,
updating our website, writingblog posts, marketing, even
scheduling, networking things.
Those are all things you couldbe spending $20 to $35 an hour
to have someone go through alist of.
Okay, I want you to just look atall the people that don't see
couples on psychology today.
I want you to reach out to themon my behalf and try to get
(11:37):
some coffee dates with me.
That may take that person threehours and at $40 an 40 bucks an
hour.
You know that's 120 bucks anhour that you're, or 120 bucks
you're paying for three hours.
That's one counseling sessionwith a mild paying insurance
payment.
So you just multiplied yourtime from one hour of counseling
to pay for three hours ofnetworking.
So as we start to think aboutthat scalability it's not always
(11:58):
hiring clinicians that may bepart of the equation but even
saying what's extra draining forme, what's a not great use of
my time, and how do I make surethat almost everything I'm doing
is either billable orincreasing the overall billing
of the practice?
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness H (12:15):
I love that.
And so when you, it's all anumbers game, right, it sounds
like you're just looking at howcan I maximize my time?
How much time do I need, whatis my time worth, to looking at
that and being able to slow down, probably, so you're not so
stressed out and just trying todo the day-to-day things to be
able to figure that out.
And that probably goes back tothose internal inclinations what
(12:37):
do I want to be spending mytime doing?
How do you then?
What's your approach to actualgoal setting and measuring that
progress, especially in asuccessful practice?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (12:49):
Yeah , so when we work with business
owners, one thing we look at istheir annual plan.
I hate three to five yearstrategic plans because who you
were three years ago, marta, isway different.
I knew you three years ago theway you thought three years ago,
marta is way different.
I knew you three years ago.
Oh yeah, the way you thoughtthree years ago.
Like if we had decided whatyou're doing today based on who
Marta was three years ago, youwould think too small, and so to
(13:10):
me it's important to do likesix to 12 months, and so what
that looks like typically islooking at two, maybe three key
performance indicators, and sooftentimes that's around sales
or how much money is coming intothe practice, and so oftentimes
that's around sales or how muchmoney is coming into the
practice.
Time is usually one of them.
And then sometimes we have anextra kind of goal, like we want
to launch an e-course or wewant to launch something that's
(13:30):
a little more scalable beyondthe practice.
Maybe we're hiring people in.
So then we have what are thosemeasures for each of those goals
?
So those KPIs, key performanceindicators.
Now we want to look at whatprojects need to happen quarter
by quarter.
So if you're, say, planning atthe end of the year, you're
looking for quarters one throughfour of next year, say you want
to boost sales, you want togrow by 25%, one project might
(13:52):
be optimizing your own time asone of the primary clinicians.
It might be that we also lookat are there ancillary services
that we could offer, eitherthrough your time or through
someone else?
It may be that you look athiring in a couple clinicians
into the practice.
It may be that you look at someincome that you're doing
presentations for localbusinesses through their HR
(14:12):
department, and so we want tousually establish three or four
projects that are going tosupport that.
Now, the important thing is,these aren't all your own
projects typically.
So it may be that part ofboosting your sales is to look
at your no-show rate.
Say, you're at 20% no-show andyou're not collecting on that.
Well then, we need to have aproject around just the
operations of collecting whensomeone no-shows and looking at
(14:36):
do all the insurances allow usto do that?
If you're billing insurance,there are some insurances that
don't allow you to collect forno-shows, so do we want to be on
those insurances?
So that might be, you know,quarter one we're going to
evaluate all the insurances anddecide which ones are not
allowing us to bill, and thismight be an executive assistant
you have.
Do that project.
You know.
Step two of quarter two might bethat they then contact you know
(14:59):
each of those insurances thatdon't allow you to collect, to
find out what's the process formoving off of those insurances
and moving into out-of-networktypes of benefits.
It might be that we in quartertwo send a letter to all of our
clients saying moving forward,we're collecting for no-shows
because right now we're at 20%no-show and we're not collecting
, so we're going to startcollecting on that and then
(15:21):
maybe we also have part of thatproject, be that that executive
assistant is looking at you knowwhat are the best practices to
reduce no-shows.
Like you give them that project, let them take it on, let them
research it, watch YouTubevideos.
They may then come up withideas like okay, if we just had
a dedicated phone that was fortexting people to remind them of
their sessions, or to usedifferent platforms to text
people to remind them, or can weset that up through our EHR?
(15:43):
There may be just little thingsthat in the onboarding if you
check, do you want text updatesand then they automatically get
a reminder.
Maybe you reduce your no-showsby 15%.
So that would be an example ofa project that then supports
making more money.
And then we might also look atokay, what's our out-of-network
fee?
Is that in line with where weshould be.
Maybe we need to raise it by25%, so those projects then
(16:06):
support the bigger KPI, and nowwe have, quarter by quarter,
what we need to be working on,and we can then say I'm not
going to think about all theother things until I get to that
quarter.
And so, for example, in practiceto practice, one thing that we
recognize one of our KPIs isaround operations, and the
number we gave it was our COO,sam, so she was getting sucked
into five to 10 meetings a week.
(16:27):
Our KPI is that she is in onlyone meeting a week.
That's not necessary, likethere's just some fire she needs
to put out, and that any newproject takes one meeting to
launch the new project, that webring the team together, we have
the conversation and then wesay when do we need to meet to
look at the progress of this?
So very functional meetings.
(16:47):
So part of that KPI, then, iswe need a better communication
system.
We're using Trello for a longtime.
And then her quarter one wasresearch the heck out of project
management systems.
So we ended up landing on Asana.
There's lots of other ones outthere.
So then her next step in thatproject was that sam learns
asana and then she teaches twokey people on the team how to
(17:08):
use asana, pokes holes in it sothat me and other team members
aren't learning it and like Idon't get this and they can't
answer questions, like they needto master it before they teach
us.
So then by the end of quarterone, you know we're all on board
with this.
We're all using asana.
That's how we communicate.
You know we're all on boardwith this.
We're all using Asana.
That's how we communicate.
Now you know she has to then,early on, do some teaching, even
to me to say stop texting me,stop sending me a WhatsApp, do
(17:30):
it in Asana.
It's like okay, like I'm notsupposed to do that except for
in Asana.
So when we start to createthese systems and very clear
measures, it then limits theamount that we need to work on
because we know, okay, quarterone we have, I have these four
projects.
I'm working on everything else.
I need to be doing therapy wise.
My executive assistant is doingthese things.
We're going to check in everyweek, every other week, see
(17:50):
where they're at, where they'restuck, and then we're going to
move forward on it.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness (17:53):
Hmm , yeah, you know, so much of
what you described to to mesounded like you're confronting
challenges with curiosity, right, like instead of just, I think,
so often just human nature.
We can get distraught, we canfeel guilt, we can feel
unsettled or we even just feeldiscouraged, like, okay, I can't
.
Like.
(18:13):
You mentioned the insurance.
You know I can't bill insurancewhen there's a no-show and just
kind of give up, but I lovethat you're confronting it, a
challenge, with curiosity.
I'm curious, you know, I keepgoing back to the internal
inclination because I love that.
I love the motivations behindyou know what it helps you
propel forward, because Irecently had a colleague talk
(18:33):
about you know, passions.
Passions can go up and down,they wane they, they change
their.
Your passion, it depends on theday, so many things, but your
true motivation on why you dosomething, that is what really
kind of sustains and propels youforward.
Um, what do you see are thebiggest blocks and challenges
for people to identify?
You know what am I?
Is this a block for me?
(18:55):
Um, kind of like you know,instead of me, instead of facing
these challenges with curiosity, I'm meeting X, y and Z feeling
or thought or belief system.
What are some of those thatyou've identified when working
with people.
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (19:11):
Yeah , I'm glad you bring it back to
the internal clinicians, becausewhen we were doing the research
for the book and looking at it,we found that there's really
only three things that topleaders do on a regular basis,
and for a lot of them it comesnaturally.
And that's why we've createdthis assessment that goes along
with that chapter in the book tosay, like, where are you at in
regards to these internalinclinations?
And the reason is it's not passfail, it's not like if you
(19:33):
don't have one of them thatyou're not a good leader.
It just means, okay, thatdoesn't come natural for me and
I need to work on that.
And so, just big picture, thethree internal inclinations are
curiosity, an outsider approachand the ability to move on it.
And so with curiosity forexample, people that are top
leaders, they don't have thispass fail mindset Say, you run a
(19:56):
Google ad campaign and youdon't get the outcomes that you
want Someone that has a passfail mindset can be like man, I
just dropped two grand on thatand I wasted that money.
I could have used that on afamily vacation, whereas someone
that has moved into curiosityto say OK, what did we learn
from this?
We learned what people don'twant.
We learned that these landingpages really aren't converting.
(20:18):
People click.
They get stuck there.
We need to improve that.
Let's do another round of someA-B testing for it.
You know the ability to move onit.
You know people that overthinkthings and are paralyzed by
perfection.
That doesn't help you.
You know in grad school whenyou're working on your thesis or
you're working on yourdissertation, yeah, you want
that to be perfect.
You don't want to stand infront of your committee and
(20:39):
defend it and have them tear itto pieces.
You want to feel really strongabout it.
But most of the time in businesswe can adjust.
We can put out a minimum viableproduct, get feedback and move
quickly on it instead ofoverthinking it.
And that outsider perspectivewe know that statistically,
outsiders have more influencethan insiders.
You even think about maybe whenyou're younger and didn't have
(21:00):
your own business and you got anew job.
Oftentimes that new person isable to question things in a way
that those that are alreadythere can't question it.
I remember I started working ata community college and they
were still like handwritingevery progress note in the
counseling department and thenfiling those notes by the day
that the person came in, noteven by their last name.
(21:20):
So if I wanted to find outwhere they were, I'd have to,
like, look at a handwrittencalendar, when did Jane Smith
come?
And they're like well, she camein May.
Okay, pull that one, it wasjust bonkers.
And so these three internalinclinations, if we can just
figure out where we at and thensay I'm going to work on that
first, it then sets us up to beable to slow down, well, and
(21:40):
then to absolutely kill it.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellnes (21:42):
Yeah , I love that you know.
When it comes to then, apractical approach or
orientation for creating thatperfect practice, this is more
for providers, becauseultimately, when providers have
that ultimate perfect practice,I mean it's just allows everyone
(22:06):
to thrive, right.
It's just so much fulfillmentin their work and so many lives
touched.
Maximized opportunities forappointments and trainings to
enhance the client experience.
What are some practicalapproaches for creating the
perfect practice that you candescribe?
We already know like okay, itlooks like looking at your
motivations, taking theassessment that you have,
slowing down any other tips thatyou can provide?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (22:28):
Yeah , and it's most simple.
There's only two things youneed to worry about.
One is how do people find you?
And two is what happens next?
Like, if you just simplify itto that almost everything in a
practice falls in one of thosecategories.
How do people find you?
And two is what happens next?
Like if you just simplify it tothat almost everything in a
practice falls in one of thosecategories.
How do people find you?
They went on tele-wellness huband they searched and they found
your name on there and said,well, I think I could work with
that person.
They Googled something.
(22:49):
They asked on Facebook doesanyone know a good child
therapist?
You know they texted theirfriends.
How do they find you?
So that's the marketing, that'sthe branding, that's the just
public facing things that you doof general awareness that you
exist.
And then what happens next?
That's the clinical track ofthey come in for an intake or
they call your front desk orthey drop an email, or maybe you
(23:10):
have an online calendar.
You have operations there, youhave the clinical work you do
and hopefully you have some sortof surveying.
Maybe it's a text message afterthe third session hey, we just
want to check in to see how yourclinical experience is going.
Then what happens when peopleare done with counseling so that
they want to refer to you?
Do we have any sort of qualityassurance?
Do we check in on that side too?
(23:35):
So if we just simplify it tothat and say what can I do right
now?
What's one thing that I can doin the side of how do people
find me?
Okay, there's some awarenessbuilding.
Maybe it's networking, maybeit's this month You're going to
just focus on that.
What's one thing you can do inregards to people coming in.
Maybe you evaluate the intakeprocess.
How do they reach out, and thenwhat happens?
And then we just start to workon those things and say what are
(23:55):
the best practices?
We don't need to do it all atonce.
You can say this month I'mgoing to work on just networking
and people knowing that I existin that way, and then this
month I'm going to work on whathappens.
Next I'm going to implement asurvey after session three and
maybe start super simple whereit's like very confidential, but
you just use a Google form sothere's no identifying
(24:16):
information in there, so youdon't need to worry about all
the business associatesagreements.
You look for that low hangingfruit.
So keeping it simple, becausethere are a million things you
can do to grow your practice,but really we just want to look
at those two sides of the coin.
Marta Hamilton TeleWellness H (24:32):
I love keeping it simple.
I think it's so easy toovercomplicate things and it's
wonderful to have access toinformation, but it can be very
overwhelming, right?
Because we can get overwhelmedby our own Google searches and
the multiple things that show upand the things that we are
shown on different mediaplatforms.
So I love that you're keepingit simple and I am a true
(24:53):
testament.
I feel like I wouldn't do thisinterview justice.
I found Joe many years ago,after my twins were born, and I
just had this dream of how couldI use my time differently and
still be a therapist so I can beat home with my kids.
And I Googled and I found Joeand I love that you break it
(25:14):
down and keep it simple forpeople to really find a roadmap
to find success.
So I love that that you sharewith everyone.
How can people connect with you?
What's the best way?
Joe Sanok, Practice of the (25:28):
Yeah , so practiceofthepracticecom.
We have a ton of resources.
We do a bunch of behind thescenes things like website
design, social media management.
We have one-on-one consultingand membership communities, so
poke around on the website.
The podcast is Practice of thePractice, super easy to find.
We have over a thousandepisodes there, so there's bound
to be a few things that you'llenjoy.
I'd say one of the best thingsthat can be helpful is we have a
(25:51):
28-step checklist for peoplejust getting started, or if you
want to audit your practice tosay, hey, did I do everything
right?
Sometimes you know you do yourbest at the beginning and you
miss a couple things, and so thebest way to download that is
over at practiceofthepracticecomforward, slash, new and then
you can just go through thatchecklist to make sure that you
got everything right.
You'll get some emails alsowalking you through those steps
(26:12):
to just audit your practice andthink through the best way to
continue to grow.
Marta Hamilton TeleWell (26:23):
Awesome .
I'd love to include thatchecklist actually in the show
notes so we'll make sure toinclude all that information for
people so people can find youand just really learn and grow.
It's been amazing to watch allthat you have done too over the
years to help providers andbeyond right With your book,
with your guest episodes onother podcasts like the Smart
Passive Income podcast.
So really appreciate all thework that you do and thank you
(26:46):
for being a part of our wellnessjourney.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.