January 22, 2025 • 29 mins
The episode centers on the transformative power of EMDR in addressing trauma and promoting healing. Laura Thomas shares insights on generational trauma, the EMDR process, and the importance of self-care for therapists, emphasizing that healing is possible through compassion and effective therapeutic techniques.
• Emphasizes the impact of generational trauma on individuals and families
• Describes the mechanics and benefits of EMDR therapy
• Discusses the significance of resourcing techniques for clients
• Highlights the necessity of self-care for therapists to manage secondary trauma
• Encourages listeners to explore EMDR as a potential healing path
Laura shares her contact information for anyone interested in her services: LauraThomasLICSW.com.
We are happy and honored to be part of your life changing health and wellness journey:
https://telewellnesshub.com/explore-wellness-experts/
We are happy and honored to be part of your life changing health and wellness journey:
https://telewellnesshub.com/explore-wellness-experts/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome, friends, to the Telewellness Hub podcast.
Today's podcast is not just asimple past fact, it's an act of
self-care.
I'm Martha Hamilton, your host,and today we get to talk to
somebody really special who ispassionate about mental health
awareness, breaking the cycle oftrauma and building healthier
relationships and lifestyles.
(00:21):
Her name is Laura Thomas.
She's an LICSW trained in EMDR,with six years of experience
providing mental health servicesto a wide range of ages and
populations.
Welcome, laura.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thank you.
Yes, I feel like there's a lotwe want to talk about Before we
hit record.
I shared my own interest inEMDR.
I've mentioned it in someprevious podcasts but I'm hoping
we can dive in a little bitmore and also just talk about
practicing what we preach astherapists Um, just being able
to talk a little bit about that.
(00:58):
So I'm hoping to get to all ofthis, uh, these conversations
and talk a little bit more aboutwhat it looks like when working
with Laura and in privatepractice with her.
But before we dive into allthose questions, if you don't
mind sharing a little bit moreabout why do you do the wellness
(01:18):
work that you do?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So that's a huge question in itself.
Um, especially since, like youknow, I've found my purpose.
I've found everything that Ifeel like I was built to do,
like I really feel like I wasborn to be a healer.
Um, I also am really excitedabout breaking the cycle of
(01:42):
generational trauma.
I mean, life is hard, yeah,like, yeah, we all go through
really hard things.
Unfortunately, it seems liketrauma is a part of most
people's lives, and especiallylike in the past, even with like
big disasters, big wars, likehorrible things that have
happened throughout the years,there's a history of trauma that
(02:05):
we didn't know how to deal withfor a very long time.
And now we're finally gettingto that place where we can
understand how to heal that andso being able to help people and
see people heal from thesethings, get rid of those
triggers and be able to live ahealthy lifestyle that everybody
wants to, and be able to teachtheir children that and
(02:27):
co-regulate, help them continueon with way less trauma, at
least knowing how to deal withit.
So that's probably the biggestthing.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, no, that's huge .
Something I didn't share but isin Laura's bio on her website.
That really stood out to me isthis statement that I feel like
is exactly what you touched uponshe shared.
It is the most beautifulexperience to watch people shed
their negative beliefs, triggersand strong emotional reactions
(02:58):
due to the trauma they endured.
Like just speaking about likethe beauty and being able to be
a part of that and to witnessthat and to see that
transformation.
So thanks for sharing, becauseI think in my experience
speaking with colleagues, notjust in this podcast but just in
(03:18):
general, there's truly like apassion behind all the academics
and the clinical work and thethousands of hours to get our
license right and setting up ourprivate practice.
There's, um, you gotta have alot of a lot of motivation and
and heart for for that work.
So, yeah, thanks for thanks forsharing that and I think you're
(03:39):
right, it's really reallyinteresting and um amazing that
we now have the technology andthe understanding about right
like our neurobiology and justthe science and the technology
to really start to learn andmeasure.
I mean, we can now measure theeffects of trauma right in the
body.
So I think it's such afascinating thing to be able to
(04:03):
offer support for that andprovide healing for generations
to come, if you don't mind.
Something you mentioned is thatgenerational trauma.
I haven't talked to peopleabout that and I've shared, I've
disclosed.
I am not a trauma specialist soI typically refer out.
I'm always so curious.
(04:24):
I love talking with people whoproviders, who have that
background.
Can you share a little bitabout what it would look like if
I were a client and I'm lookingat?
Maybe I can identify maybethere's someone listening right
now like, okay, I think there'ssome generational trauma going
on in my families and in myfamily and like what would it
(04:44):
look like to address that,especially through the lens of
something like EMDR?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Wow, that's a great question so.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Oh, why don't I start ?
Let me back up.
Let me back up actually Like,can you just share a little bit
of like what is EMDR, you know?
Like before, I like get 10steps ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Okay.
So I actually have a way ofexplaining it.
When, like, I get new referralsor when I'm, you know, just
even starting with someone whocame for EMDR, I just want to
make sure that they get theunderstanding that I have of it.
So, the way I explain it and Ihave to mention that I was
trained by Dr Dobo down inMelbourne, florida, and he's
amazing and he helped me createthis little pitch, as we call it
(05:31):
so, basically, we have in ourtraumas, they create triggers,
and what triggers are is ourpast feeling like our present,
and so it's stored in the wrongpart of the brain.
And when we incorporatebilateral stimulation, which can
be tapping on either side ofthe body or eye movement, was
(05:54):
obviously the original becauseit stands for eye movement,
desensitization and reprocessing.
So eye movements back and forth, but a lot of people like to
close their eyes.
So also, through telehealth, Ihave a platform that plays a
sound back and forth, and sowhat that does is it connects
both hemispheres of the brain sothat they can reprocess what
(06:17):
happened to them, make meaningof it and desensitize those body
triggers and put it back in thepart of the brain where they
know it's in the past and itjust doesn't activate them as
much anymore.
So they still remember it, butit's not affecting their daily
lives in their present anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That's amazing.
I love the way you describe itlike the past and the present,
and I didn't realize that youcould do that through telehealth
.
I knew some people did the eyes, but I was envisioning.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I could see how it's nice to close your eyes
and use the power of soundthat's them and actually like
that, you brought that upbecause with trauma patients or
(07:08):
trauma clients they usually grewup, especially with
developmental trauma, whichhappens, you know from a time
that they can't even rememberhaving a life without trauma,
but they never got choices,choices right, like they were
never in control, and theyprobably still feel like they're
(07:29):
never in control in their lives, and so it's very important in
every session that you're givingthem as many choices as
possible, using the language, ifI invite you to do this, or are
you ready for this?
Or and just making sure thatthey know that you don't want
them to people.
Please you, right?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Let's be honest here.
Do you need to take a break?
Like you are in control here.
I love that.
I'm going to keep reminding youof that, and so, even with
those sounds like which sound ismost comfortable for you,
making those choices of everysingle thing that's so important
.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
it's so important and I can see so empowering those
choices.
Yeah, yes, especially withsomething like such a big step
for some people.
Um, I mean, I've been a patient, a client myself, right to
therapy, and even as a therapistmyself, I know it's a big step
to like, okay, find the rightlittle person and to step into
the unknown of what is it goingto be like, what kind of
questions are they going to askme?
(08:20):
So that's amazing that youexplain the process and give
choices within that.
I didn't know that you could dothat, that you could do just
the audio and through telehealthand have choices.
That's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, well, great, greatpitch for EMDR.
Like, yeah, yeah, I thinkthat's great gaining that trust.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Just explaining it, you know, getting through
basically your normal firstthree sessions, right, you're
getting to know each other,getting comfortable, creating
that safe space.
And then phase two isresourcing, which is super
important.
I keep learning how importantit is more and more with every
single client, and a lot ofclients you know that have so
(09:21):
much trauma they are.
They're used to a chaotic life,right, like they're used to
chaos, and it's almost likechaos feels safe and comfortable
, and so they're stepping out oftheir comfort zone when you're
helping them learn to relax,because they're like where's the
chaos?
This is not relaxing, this isnot safe, and so it's so
(09:43):
important to sit in theresourcing for as long as
possible and help them start torealize what it feels like to be
calm, what it feels like to besafe and what it feels like to
let your body relax.
And so some different examplesof resourcing.
So we create a happy place, andI even give them a choice on
what word do you want to use foryour place?
(10:04):
Do you want it to be happy,calm, peaceful?
Sometimes people choose safe,but I usually don't even offer
that word because most of themdon't know what it feels like to
be safe.
But, yeah, different words todescribe their place and I'm
like, okay, well, when you thinkof this place, it can be
imaginary, it can be real, itcan be a combination, like what
(10:26):
comes up for you, and thenusually they know exactly what
that is like oh, it's in a park,or oh it's in my living room,
or it's by the beach.
The beach is a common one, andthen I use all of the grounding
techniques to help them getthere, with the slow BLS going
(10:46):
back and forth.
So the slow is for resourcing,because it's creating that
calmer environment and you speedit up for the actual processing
part.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Oh, interesting.
Okay, so do you spend more timein that resourcing?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
so honestly, I used to do it in one session, but
that's because I did.
I only knew of four resourcesthe place, a container to put
all your negative emotions andthings in it when you don't want
to continue processing it.
(11:26):
I had an attachment team sothat's creating like your
nurturer, protector and wisdomfigure and meeting with them
wherever you wanted to, becauseyou know attachment is the
opposite of loneliness.
So creating that team you canalways have with you and a
healing light that just kind ofspreads over you and helps you
heal.
But now I have so many more.
One of some of my clients'favorite is called the daily
resource buddy, and so say theyhave trouble managing their time
(11:53):
.
Obviously they need a timemanagement buddy or a
mindfulness buddy, and so theycreate what that looks like and
they, with the BLS playingslowly, they kind of go
throughout a whole day with thatbuddy next to them to see what
that day would be like.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Oh, that's really cool.
That's like kind of the.
I mean I don't want to say it'sguided imagery, right, but I
mean yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Right, there's an element of that, just installing
it with that VLS so that it'sreally in there in the brain
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I love that because I did see, I remember just kind
of with your background, yourbackground with mindfulness
techniques, right, it justsounds like it's a really
powerful way to just kind ofgive the knowledge, the coping
skills, the mindful techniqueand mindfulness technique and
like really utilizing what weknow about our actual, like our
(12:45):
brain, right, yeah, so that'sreally cool.
Yes, so you have that, and thenyou have the actual
reprocessing, which might belater then, yeah, so after you
get through phase two, which,honestly, phase two, lasts
throughout the entire process,as well right, like you're
always going to come back toresourcing, and part of the
reason that you do theresourcing is you know they're
(13:10):
in control, right?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So during an actual EMDR session, phases three
through seven, while they'rereprocessing and desensitizing
if it gets too much, they cansay stop at any time and then
okay, well, let's use thecontainer and put that away.
Or let's go to our place and,you know, relax, get stabilized.
So there are many reasons forthese.
One is healing your inner child, and so that helps them
(13:35):
understand how to do that in theEMDR session, because each part
that was traumatized is goingto need to be healed to
reintegrate into that wholeperson.
Wow.
So phases three through sevenare the actual EMDR session,
where we pick a target, which iswhatever traumatic event they
(13:55):
want to target at that time, andyou set it up through uh, I
can't think of the word for theworksheet right now, but you set
it up basically through, justlike a preparation of like okay,
what emotions are coming uphere?
what is your suds level, yoursubjective unit of distress, um,
where are you feeling?
(14:16):
That in your body is veryimportant, and we also come up
with what is the negative beliefthat came from this trauma oh,
wow and what would we ratherbelieve?
So you create that positivecognition that you want to
change it to, and that is justnext level yeah, I yeah, it
changes their lives.
You know, like the two from drdobo, the two biggest negative
(14:42):
core beliefs that almosteveryone has is either I don't
matter or I'm not good enough.
Oh wow, and it, like it, justis so layered in there.
So there are several sessionsthat usually have to happen to
really get them to the pointthat I am good enough or I do
matter, and then their wholelives change after that.
(15:04):
Right, these I don't matter.
People are usually lettingpeople walk all over them.
They learn that they do matterand they're like oh, those
people don't belong in my life.
Yeah Right, like.
I need healthy relationships,because I deserve that.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Wow, well, and then I imagine it's a really powerful
step towards other things thatmight be recommended in or you
know that may come up in therapy.
Like you know, I know right nowthere's a lot of conversations
regarding, like, boundarysetting and I can imagine it's a
lot If there's that core beliefthat I don't matter.
Maybe it's hard to like say myboundaries matter or these
(15:37):
values matter.
It might be hard to to do that,so I couldn't.
I could imagine, right, I'm notin these sessions and I don't
have that background, but I canimagine it just leads to a
(16:08):
butterfly.
Little about during, right,like, if it feels like really
like it's too much, you can takea step back.
Um, you talked a little bitabout what it looks like to find
the calm, calm place.
What, what do people, what canclients expect to feel or
experience during and after?
Um, emdr, and I know it dependson the phase, right, but I'm
(16:28):
just curious it is so differentfor every single person.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It is so it's so interesting how people let me
talk a little bit about this.
This just transitioned me toanother place.
So when we're in our trauma,especially as children, or just
anytime we create a survivalstrategy right, create a
(17:05):
survival strategy right, and soin that moment, whatever that
strategy is helps us survive.
But as we grow older, whenwe're not in that trauma anymore
, that strategy is not veryadaptive anymore.
But we want to celebrate howstrong that person was and how
incredible our brains are tocome up with these strategies.
But those are our traumaresponses.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And they can be anything and our trauma
responses are going to come outin the MDR.
Usually Like we're going tolike if you didn't even know
that there was a body responsethat you have to something, it's
going to come out in the MDR.
I've got a couple of clientswho get really cold oh wow,
processing and they wrap up in ablanket.
I've got some clients who haveto rock back and forth.
(17:43):
I mean, there are just so manydifferent things that can happen
and it depends on what thetrauma was too, Right, right,
wow.
I mean, our bodies have a storytoo.
Like our minds, our emotionsand our bodies, they all have a
story to tell.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Right, especially if you're activating through the
brain.
You know, the body I meanthere's.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I'm sure there is that Phase eight is where we
actually talk about all of thosethings too.
And you do tend to continue toprocess after a session, and
that's always a debriefing rightAt the end.
It's like, okay, you mightcontinue to process a session,
and that's always a debriefingright at the end.
It's like, okay, you mightcontinue to process.
You might have dreams.
Um, I usually ask clients towrite down their dreams if they
(18:27):
want to.
Um, usually the ones that theyneed to talk about they're going
to remember, so they don'tactually have to journal.
But, um, they'll come back forphase eight, which is in between
the actual processing sessions,and we'll talk about what was
any more processing you did and,oh, the positive cognition we
(18:48):
got to.
Where are we at with that?
Like you believed that youmatter a six out of seven.
Are we still there?
And then sometimes they're likeI believe in a seven out of
seven now because they did moreprocessing, and sometimes you
notice it and sometimes youdon't.
It's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think it also.
You know, it depends on theperson, like how busy were they
that week?
If they were so busy, and theirbrains doing their work for
them.
They don't even have to thinkabout it.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Oh wow, no, I love that there's that.
I guess, that session, thattime period after that people
can connect and really let itsettle.
I'm imagining like a snow globe, right, like there's a lot that
happens and then just kind oflet it.
I'm assuming it takes some timeto settle.
Yeah, the generational traumaand I was asking about that.
(19:36):
But in terms of what, someonemight come to you and benefit
from EMDR, maybe sometimespeople ask specifically for EMDR
.
Maybe sometimes they come toyou and then EMDR might be seen
like a good option.
I know there are a lot of.
Probably it varies a lot basedon the individual, just like the
, the experience and theresponse to EMDR.
(19:58):
But I'm curious if you justkind of have some examples of
who EMDR might be beneficial for.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, so I would love to provide EMDR to everyone.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, Well, I'm like.
I think everyone could benefitadditional trainings that I'm
very interested in but haven'ttaken yet.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
that would get you to a place where, okay, this
person has DID.
That's a completely differentprotocol, or I mean there are
different protocols for likeaddiction and chronic pain and
and autism.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Okay, yeah, I was curious.
There's a brain trauma like abrain injury.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, there's something with a traumatic brain
injury.
That's different, but I dothink that, and maybe not all
the research is done with all ofthose things either, but I
think that eventually we willhave the knowledge and
experience to be able to provideit to everyone.
That's my dream and hope forsure?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, that would be incredible because I just, the
more and more I talk tocolleagues about EMDR, I mean I
just I have an interest.
I my plan is to to learn asmuch as I can and um look into
certification, cause I I dothink it's important, it's a
valuable tool.
I mean I just and when I wouldrefer clients to someone who
(21:34):
specialize in EMDR and I wouldhear back from them, I mean I
didn't get to experience thetransformation that happened
during EMDR but it's undeniable.
So I just it's a really easyreferral for me to someone when
I feel like this person mightbenefit from EMDR.
Or speaking with this traumaspecialist, it's a no brainer
(21:55):
for me because I just know thatI would be doing a disservice by
preventing this amazingtransformative healing option
for them.
So I'm sure you get toexperience that firsthand.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, watching it it's, it's beautiful, it's
amazing.
Um, I have some star studentscome from such extreme
developmental trauma and I'vebeen seeing them for about two
years and they're really inmaintenance therapy now, like
they're just trying to get tothat point where they're like,
okay, I know my new identity nowand I'm ready to go forth.
(22:30):
And a couple of them areactually seeking their own
social work degrees Wow, that'sincredible, that's a testament
to the power and their ownexperience with it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
It's so nice to hear success stories, I think,
especially because nice to hearsuccess stories.
I think especially because,well, sometimes I, when you're
in that challenge, when you'rein the struggle, when you're in
the difficulty, it's, it's hardto, and especially the process
(23:07):
of our mental health system,sometimes finding and accessing
care and things can be yeah, theinsurance and all the things it
can be really hard to not losea little bit of hope right, Like
I am going to feel better.
This is going to lead mesomewhere, and so that's also
why I'm just so grateful thatyou share kind of what it looks
like and to hear thetransformation that your clients
(23:28):
can experience, because just tohave that hope right that
things can get better and toshare that inside perspective
that is usually like behindprivate doors, you know, in
therapy it's so confidential, sosometimes we don't really get
to know what happens, right,unless we know someone who's
(23:49):
experienced it or has shared.
I'm curious were you alwaysinterested in EMDR, or what led
you to EMDR?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, so when I started doing individual therapy
, I almost immediately realizedthat the trauma and grief were
the ones that I really was drawnto.
I really felt like that waswhat my calling was for.
And then I really just startedresearching trauma therapies,
(24:22):
found EMDR to be.
You know, it was an up andcoming one.
That was finally like getting alot of that traction and
awareness that it needed, and soI found Dr Dobo down in
Melbourne.
Florida.
My friend lives down there so Iwent and stayed with her and
did the training during ahurricane.
I was the hurricane class.
(24:44):
We were like the coolest classwe ever had.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And I'm actually moving down there in February
because I loved it down there somuch and everybody was so
supportive.
And I actually wanted tomention Sandra Stanford as well.
She was one of the ones whotaught me more of that
resourcing for.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
EMDR.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh wow, yeah, that additional so yeah, very
important and like really helpedme see how important that is.
So, yeah, great community downthere.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, that's incredible.
So you know my question for youtoo, because right now you're
in Alabama and you're going tobe in Florida.
You see clients that are basedout of what states?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Both Alabama and Florida right now Mostly Alabama
at the moment, just becausethat's where I am at the moment
but I have started seeing peoplein Florida and once I go down
in February I do want to startseeing in person as well.
Right now I'm only doingtelehealth, but I really feel
like there's so much more youcan get out of being in the same
(25:44):
room, feeling that space andjust, you know, getting that
connection.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yes, absolutely, and you know this question is
especially regarding being atherapist yourself.
I feel like I have so manyquestions for you.
So, as an EMDR specialist, howdo you practice self-care?
I'm thinking, do you do EMDRfor other therapists and for
yourself?
You know there's that, that youknow the trauma that you're
(26:16):
that you're helping to heal.
Like you said in the beginning,like you do this wellness work,
you're meant to be a healer,but how do you practice
self-care, especially whendealing with trauma regularly?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So, um, I am a hundred percent into practice
what you preach.
Um, all of the homework that Icome up with and a lot of it I
come up with on the fly, right,like this person's having this
issue oh, let's try this, see ifthat works and if I have
anything that's similar to that,I'm going to do that too.
I go to the gym three to fivetimes a week.
I love the community there.
(26:47):
It's a cute little, like youknow, family-owned gym gym.
We're all friends andabsolutely love it there.
We're very supportive of eachother and I really think
community is a big deal andtrying to live that healthy
lifestyle going to the gym,trying to get that nutrition.
Obviously, you're going to makemistakes, try not to be perfect,
which is something that Istruggle with quite a bit, but
(27:11):
letting go of that perfectionismand I do resource for myself.
So we're we were told not to dofull EMDR for ourselves, that
we do need to get a therapistfor that, which I did.
Have my own EMDR therapist upuntil six months ago and I plan
on getting another one when Imoved to Florida as well, but
(27:34):
I've worked through a lot myselfso I've seen like firsthand how
much it can heal you.
And obviously I'm a therapist soI believe in therapy and
everybody needs one from time totime.
Kind of get that secondarytrauma out.
Like you said, just release it.
But all about the healthyreleases, having the support you
need, calling those supportswhen you need them, asking for
(27:55):
help.
I've got two emotional supportdogs and we go on walks and
picnics and I also love going tooutdoor events.
That's like one of my favoritethings to do, so almost every
weekend there's something goingon somewhere around us.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Oh, that's nice, that's really nice.
I love that you said thatpractice what you preach,
because that's a whole otherconversation about.
You know graduate school andwhat it leads you to being a
therapist, but I think it'simportant to you know being able
to, to put into use the toolsthat you also are providing your
clients.
And also just a reminder forpeople listening you know
(28:39):
therapists are navigating thismessy life also, just like you
and I.
You know I've often heardpeople wonder like what, if you
know, do I need to be a certainway or act a certain way?
And I love that.
You brought up the peoplepleasing and the perfection like
you don't have to be perfect,like you know, and and hearing
your passion for healing andjust you know it's clear you
love that.
You love what you do and I'mgoing to make sure in the the
(29:03):
show notes and to include yourwebsite.
But what is the best way forpeople to get in touch with you
if they're in Florida or inAlabama?
What's the best way?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
LauraThomasLICSWcom is the website.
I'm pretty sure everything ison there, but you know my phone
number and email and that'sreally the best way to get in
contact with me.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Okay, well, laura, thank you so much for sharing
your time and your insight withus, and thank you so much for
being a part of our wellnessjourney today.
Thank you and thank you.
Welcome, friends, to the Telewellness Hub podcast.
Today's podcast is not just asimple past fact, it's an act of
self-care.
I'm Martha Hamilton, your host,and today we get to talk to
somebody really special who ispassionate about mental health
awareness, breaking the cycle oftrauma and building healthier
relationships and lifestyles.
(00:21):
Her name is Laura Thomas.
She's an LICSW trained in EMDR,with six years of experience
providing mental health servicesto a wide range of ages and
populations.
Welcome, laura.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thank you.
Yes, I feel like there's a lotwe want to talk about Before we
hit record.
I shared my own interest inEMDR.
I've mentioned it in someprevious podcasts but I'm hoping
we can dive in a little bitmore and also just talk about
practicing what we preach astherapists Um, just being able
to talk a little bit about that.
(00:58):
So I'm hoping to get to all ofthis, uh, these conversations
and talk a little bit more aboutwhat it looks like when working
with Laura and in privatepractice with her.
But before we dive into allthose questions, if you don't
mind sharing a little bit moreabout why do you do the wellness
(01:18):
work that you do?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So that's a huge question in itself.
Um, especially since, like youknow, I've found my purpose.
I've found everything that Ifeel like I was built to do,
like I really feel like I wasborn to be a healer.
Um, I also am really excitedabout breaking the cycle of
(01:42):
generational trauma.
I mean, life is hard, yeah,like, yeah, we all go through
really hard things.
Unfortunately, it seems liketrauma is a part of most
people's lives, and especiallylike in the past, even with like
big disasters, big wars, likehorrible things that have
happened throughout the years,there's a history of trauma that
(02:05):
we didn't know how to deal withfor a very long time.
And now we're finally gettingto that place where we can
understand how to heal that andso being able to help people and
see people heal from thesethings, get rid of those
triggers and be able to live ahealthy lifestyle that everybody
wants to, and be able to teachtheir children that and
(02:27):
co-regulate, help them continueon with way less trauma, at
least knowing how to deal withit.
So that's probably the biggestthing.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, no, that's huge .
Something I didn't share but isin Laura's bio on her website.
That really stood out to me isthis statement that I feel like
is exactly what you touched uponshe shared.
It is the most beautifulexperience to watch people shed
their negative beliefs, triggersand strong emotional reactions
(02:58):
due to the trauma they endured.
Like just speaking about likethe beauty and being able to be
a part of that and to witnessthat and to see that
transformation.
So thanks for sharing, becauseI think in my experience
speaking with colleagues, notjust in this podcast but just in
(03:18):
general, there's truly like apassion behind all the academics
and the clinical work and thethousands of hours to get our
license right and setting up ourprivate practice.
There's, um, you gotta have alot of a lot of motivation and
and heart for for that work.
So, yeah, thanks for thanks forsharing that and I think you're
(03:39):
right, it's really reallyinteresting and um amazing that
we now have the technology andthe understanding about right
like our neurobiology and justthe science and the technology
to really start to learn andmeasure.
I mean, we can now measure theeffects of trauma right in the
body.
So I think it's such afascinating thing to be able to
(04:03):
offer support for that andprovide healing for generations
to come, if you don't mind.
Something you mentioned is thatgenerational trauma.
I haven't talked to peopleabout that and I've shared, I've
disclosed.
I am not a trauma specialist soI typically refer out.
I'm always so curious.
(04:24):
I love talking with people whoproviders, who have that
background.
Can you share a little bitabout what it would look like if
I were a client and I'm lookingat?
Maybe I can identify maybethere's someone listening right
now like, okay, I think there'ssome generational trauma going
on in my families and in myfamily and like what would it
(04:44):
look like to address that,especially through the lens of
something like EMDR?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Wow, that's a great question so.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Oh, why don't I start ?
Let me back up.
Let me back up actually Like,can you just share a little bit
of like what is EMDR, you know?
Like before, I like get 10steps ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Okay.
So I actually have a way ofexplaining it.
When, like, I get new referralsor when I'm, you know, just
even starting with someone whocame for EMDR, I just want to
make sure that they get theunderstanding that I have of it.
So, the way I explain it and Ihave to mention that I was
trained by Dr Dobo down inMelbourne, florida, and he's
amazing and he helped me createthis little pitch, as we call it
(05:31):
so, basically, we have in ourtraumas, they create triggers,
and what triggers are is ourpast feeling like our present,
and so it's stored in the wrongpart of the brain.
And when we incorporatebilateral stimulation, which can
be tapping on either side ofthe body or eye movement, was
(05:54):
obviously the original becauseit stands for eye movement,
desensitization and reprocessing.
So eye movements back and forth, but a lot of people like to
close their eyes.
So also, through telehealth, Ihave a platform that plays a
sound back and forth, and sowhat that does is it connects
both hemispheres of the brain sothat they can reprocess what
(06:17):
happened to them, make meaningof it and desensitize those body
triggers and put it back in thepart of the brain where they
know it's in the past and itjust doesn't activate them as
much anymore.
So they still remember it, butit's not affecting their daily
lives in their present anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That's amazing.
I love the way you describe itlike the past and the present,
and I didn't realize that youcould do that through telehealth
.
I knew some people did the eyes, but I was envisioning.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I could see how it's nice to close your eyes
and use the power of soundthat's them and actually like
that, you brought that upbecause with trauma patients or
(07:08):
trauma clients they usually grewup, especially with
developmental trauma, whichhappens, you know from a time
that they can't even rememberhaving a life without trauma,
but they never got choices,choices right, like they were
never in control, and theyprobably still feel like they're
(07:29):
never in control in their lives, and so it's very important in
every session that you're givingthem as many choices as
possible, using the language, ifI invite you to do this, or are
you ready for this?
Or and just making sure thatthey know that you don't want
them to people.
Please you, right?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Let's be honest here.
Do you need to take a break?
Like you are in control here.
I love that.
I'm going to keep reminding youof that, and so, even with
those sounds like which sound ismost comfortable for you,
making those choices of everysingle thing that's so important
.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
it's so important and I can see so empowering those
choices.
Yeah, yes, especially withsomething like such a big step
for some people.
Um, I mean, I've been a patient, a client myself, right to
therapy, and even as a therapistmyself, I know it's a big step
to like, okay, find the rightlittle person and to step into
the unknown of what is it goingto be like, what kind of
questions are they going to askme?
(08:20):
So that's amazing that youexplain the process and give
choices within that.
I didn't know that you could dothat, that you could do just
the audio and through telehealthand have choices.
That's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, well, great, greatpitch for EMDR.
Like, yeah, yeah, I thinkthat's great gaining that trust.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Just explaining it, you know, getting through
basically your normal firstthree sessions, right, you're
getting to know each other,getting comfortable, creating
that safe space.
And then phase two isresourcing, which is super
important.
I keep learning how importantit is more and more with every
single client, and a lot ofclients you know that have so
(09:21):
much trauma they are.
They're used to a chaotic life,right, like they're used to
chaos, and it's almost likechaos feels safe and comfortable
, and so they're stepping out oftheir comfort zone when you're
helping them learn to relax,because they're like where's the
chaos?
This is not relaxing, this isnot safe, and so it's so
(09:43):
important to sit in theresourcing for as long as
possible and help them start torealize what it feels like to be
calm, what it feels like to besafe and what it feels like to
let your body relax.
And so some different examplesof resourcing.
So we create a happy place, andI even give them a choice on
what word do you want to use foryour place?
(10:04):
Do you want it to be happy,calm, peaceful?
Sometimes people choose safe,but I usually don't even offer
that word because most of themdon't know what it feels like to
be safe.
But, yeah, different words todescribe their place and I'm
like, okay, well, when you thinkof this place, it can be
imaginary, it can be real, itcan be a combination, like what
(10:26):
comes up for you, and thenusually they know exactly what
that is like oh, it's in a park,or oh it's in my living room,
or it's by the beach.
The beach is a common one, andthen I use all of the grounding
techniques to help them getthere, with the slow BLS going
(10:46):
back and forth.
So the slow is for resourcing,because it's creating that
calmer environment and you speedit up for the actual processing
part.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Oh, interesting.
Okay, so do you spend more timein that resourcing?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
so honestly, I used to do it in one session, but
that's because I did.
I only knew of four resourcesthe place, a container to put
all your negative emotions andthings in it when you don't want
to continue processing it.
(11:26):
I had an attachment team sothat's creating like your
nurturer, protector and wisdomfigure and meeting with them
wherever you wanted to, becauseyou know attachment is the
opposite of loneliness.
So creating that team you canalways have with you and a
healing light that just kind ofspreads over you and helps you
heal.
But now I have so many more.
One of some of my clients'favorite is called the daily
resource buddy, and so say theyhave trouble managing their time
(11:53):
.
Obviously they need a timemanagement buddy or a
mindfulness buddy, and so theycreate what that looks like and
they, with the BLS playingslowly, they kind of go
throughout a whole day with thatbuddy next to them to see what
that day would be like.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Oh, that's really cool.
That's like kind of the.
I mean I don't want to say it'sguided imagery, right, but I
mean yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Right, there's an element of that, just installing
it with that VLS so that it'sreally in there in the brain
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I love that because I did see, I remember just kind
of with your background, yourbackground with mindfulness
techniques, right, it justsounds like it's a really
powerful way to just kind ofgive the knowledge, the coping
skills, the mindful techniqueand mindfulness technique and
like really utilizing what weknow about our actual, like our
(12:45):
brain, right, yeah, so that'sreally cool.
Yes, so you have that, and thenyou have the actual
reprocessing, which might belater then, yeah, so after you
get through phase two, which,honestly, phase two, lasts
throughout the entire process,as well right, like you're
always going to come back toresourcing, and part of the
reason that you do theresourcing is you know they're
(13:10):
in control, right?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So during an actual EMDR session, phases three
through seven, while they'rereprocessing and desensitizing
if it gets too much, they cansay stop at any time and then
okay, well, let's use thecontainer and put that away.
Or let's go to our place and,you know, relax, get stabilized.
So there are many reasons forthese.
One is healing your inner child, and so that helps them
(13:35):
understand how to do that in theEMDR session, because each part
that was traumatized is goingto need to be healed to
reintegrate into that wholeperson.
Wow.
So phases three through sevenare the actual EMDR session,
where we pick a target, which iswhatever traumatic event they
(13:55):
want to target at that time, andyou set it up through uh, I
can't think of the word for theworksheet right now, but you set
it up basically through, justlike a preparation of like okay,
what emotions are coming uphere?
what is your suds level, yoursubjective unit of distress, um,
where are you feeling?
(14:16):
That in your body is veryimportant, and we also come up
with what is the negative beliefthat came from this trauma oh,
wow and what would we ratherbelieve?
So you create that positivecognition that you want to
change it to, and that is justnext level yeah, I yeah, it
changes their lives.
You know, like the two from drdobo, the two biggest negative
(14:42):
core beliefs that almosteveryone has is either I don't
matter or I'm not good enough.
Oh wow, and it, like it, justis so layered in there.
So there are several sessionsthat usually have to happen to
really get them to the pointthat I am good enough or I do
matter, and then their wholelives change after that.
(15:04):
Right, these I don't matter.
People are usually lettingpeople walk all over them.
They learn that they do matterand they're like oh, those
people don't belong in my life.
Yeah Right, like.
I need healthy relationships,because I deserve that.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Wow, well, and then I imagine it's a really powerful
step towards other things thatmight be recommended in or you
know that may come up in therapy.
Like you know, I know right nowthere's a lot of conversations
regarding, like, boundarysetting and I can imagine it's a
lot If there's that core beliefthat I don't matter.
Maybe it's hard to like say myboundaries matter or these
(15:37):
values matter.
It might be hard to to do that,so I couldn't.
I could imagine, right, I'm notin these sessions and I don't
have that background, but I canimagine it just leads to a
(16:08):
butterfly.
Little about during, right,like, if it feels like really
like it's too much, you can takea step back.
Um, you talked a little bitabout what it looks like to find
the calm, calm place.
What, what do people, what canclients expect to feel or
experience during and after?
Um, emdr, and I know it dependson the phase, right, but I'm
(16:28):
just curious it is so differentfor every single person.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It is so it's so interesting how people let me
talk a little bit about this.
This just transitioned me toanother place.
So when we're in our trauma,especially as children, or just
anytime we create a survivalstrategy right, create a
(17:05):
survival strategy right, and soin that moment, whatever that
strategy is helps us survive.
But as we grow older, whenwe're not in that trauma anymore
, that strategy is not veryadaptive anymore.
But we want to celebrate howstrong that person was and how
incredible our brains are tocome up with these strategies.
But those are our traumaresponses.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And they can be anything and our trauma
responses are going to come outin the MDR.
Usually Like we're going tolike if you didn't even know
that there was a body responsethat you have to something, it's
going to come out in the MDR.
I've got a couple of clientswho get really cold oh wow,
processing and they wrap up in ablanket.
I've got some clients who haveto rock back and forth.
(17:43):
I mean, there are just so manydifferent things that can happen
and it depends on what thetrauma was too, Right, right,
wow.
I mean, our bodies have a storytoo.
Like our minds, our emotionsand our bodies, they all have a
story to tell.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Right, especially if you're activating through the
brain.
You know, the body I meanthere's.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I'm sure there is that Phase eight is where we
actually talk about all of thosethings too.
And you do tend to continue toprocess after a session, and
that's always a debriefing rightAt the end.
It's like, okay, you mightcontinue to process a session,
and that's always a debriefingright at the end.
It's like, okay, you mightcontinue to process.
You might have dreams.
Um, I usually ask clients towrite down their dreams if they
(18:27):
want to.
Um, usually the ones that theyneed to talk about they're going
to remember, so they don'tactually have to journal.
But, um, they'll come back forphase eight, which is in between
the actual processing sessions,and we'll talk about what was
any more processing you did and,oh, the positive cognition we
(18:48):
got to.
Where are we at with that?
Like you believed that youmatter a six out of seven.
Are we still there?
And then sometimes they're likeI believe in a seven out of
seven now because they did moreprocessing, and sometimes you
notice it and sometimes youdon't.
It's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think it also.
You know, it depends on theperson, like how busy were they
that week?
If they were so busy, and theirbrains doing their work for
them.
They don't even have to thinkabout it.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Oh wow, no, I love that there's that.
I guess, that session, thattime period after that people
can connect and really let itsettle.
I'm imagining like a snow globe, right, like there's a lot that
happens and then just kind oflet it.
I'm assuming it takes some timeto settle.
Yeah, the generational traumaand I was asking about that.
(19:36):
But in terms of what, someonemight come to you and benefit
from EMDR, maybe sometimespeople ask specifically for EMDR
.
Maybe sometimes they come toyou and then EMDR might be seen
like a good option.
I know there are a lot of.
Probably it varies a lot basedon the individual, just like the
, the experience and theresponse to EMDR.
(19:58):
But I'm curious if you justkind of have some examples of
who EMDR might be beneficial for.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, so I would love to provide EMDR to everyone.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, Well, I'm like.
I think everyone could benefitadditional trainings that I'm
very interested in but haven'ttaken yet.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
that would get you to a place where, okay, this
person has DID.
That's a completely differentprotocol, or I mean there are
different protocols for likeaddiction and chronic pain and
and autism.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Okay, yeah, I was curious.
There's a brain trauma like abrain injury.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, there's something with a traumatic brain
injury.
That's different, but I dothink that, and maybe not all
the research is done with all ofthose things either, but I
think that eventually we willhave the knowledge and
experience to be able to provideit to everyone.
That's my dream and hope forsure?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, that would be incredible because I just, the
more and more I talk tocolleagues about EMDR, I mean I
just I have an interest.
I my plan is to to learn asmuch as I can and um look into
certification, cause I I dothink it's important, it's a
valuable tool.
I mean I just and when I wouldrefer clients to someone who
(21:34):
specialize in EMDR and I wouldhear back from them, I mean I
didn't get to experience thetransformation that happened
during EMDR but it's undeniable.
So I just it's a really easyreferral for me to someone when
I feel like this person mightbenefit from EMDR.
Or speaking with this traumaspecialist, it's a no brainer
(21:55):
for me because I just know thatI would be doing a disservice by
preventing this amazingtransformative healing option
for them.
So I'm sure you get toexperience that firsthand.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, watching it it's, it's beautiful, it's
amazing.
Um, I have some star studentscome from such extreme
developmental trauma and I'vebeen seeing them for about two
years and they're really inmaintenance therapy now, like
they're just trying to get tothat point where they're like,
okay, I know my new identity nowand I'm ready to go forth.
(22:30):
And a couple of them areactually seeking their own
social work degrees Wow, that'sincredible, that's a testament
to the power and their ownexperience with it.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
It's so nice to hear success stories, I think,
especially because nice to hearsuccess stories.
I think especially because,well, sometimes I, when you're
in that challenge, when you'rein the struggle, when you're in
the difficulty, it's, it's hardto, and especially the process
(23:07):
of our mental health system,sometimes finding and accessing
care and things can be yeah, theinsurance and all the things it
can be really hard to not losea little bit of hope right, Like
I am going to feel better.
This is going to lead mesomewhere, and so that's also
why I'm just so grateful thatyou share kind of what it looks
like and to hear thetransformation that your clients
(23:28):
can experience, because just tohave that hope right that
things can get better and toshare that inside perspective
that is usually like behindprivate doors, you know, in
therapy it's so confidential, sosometimes we don't really get
to know what happens, right,unless we know someone who's
(23:49):
experienced it or has shared.
I'm curious were you alwaysinterested in EMDR, or what led
you to EMDR?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, so when I started doing individual therapy
, I almost immediately realizedthat the trauma and grief were
the ones that I really was drawnto.
I really felt like that waswhat my calling was for.
And then I really just startedresearching trauma therapies,
(24:22):
found EMDR to be.
You know, it was an up andcoming one.
That was finally like getting alot of that traction and
awareness that it needed, and soI found Dr Dobo down in
Melbourne.
Florida.
My friend lives down there so Iwent and stayed with her and
did the training during ahurricane.
I was the hurricane class.
(24:44):
We were like the coolest classwe ever had.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
And I'm actually moving down there in February
because I loved it down there somuch and everybody was so
supportive.
And I actually wanted tomention Sandra Stanford as well.
She was one of the ones whotaught me more of that
resourcing for.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
EMDR.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh wow, yeah, that additional so yeah, very
important and like really helpedme see how important that is.
So, yeah, great community downthere.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, that's incredible.
So you know my question for youtoo, because right now you're
in Alabama and you're going tobe in Florida.
You see clients that are basedout of what states?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Both Alabama and Florida right now Mostly Alabama
at the moment, just becausethat's where I am at the moment
but I have started seeing peoplein Florida and once I go down
in February I do want to startseeing in person as well.
Right now I'm only doingtelehealth, but I really feel
like there's so much more youcan get out of being in the same
(25:44):
room, feeling that space andjust, you know, getting that
connection.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yes, absolutely, and you know this question is
especially regarding being atherapist yourself.
I feel like I have so manyquestions for you.
So, as an EMDR specialist, howdo you practice self-care?
I'm thinking, do you do EMDRfor other therapists and for
yourself?
You know there's that, that youknow the trauma that you're
(26:16):
that you're helping to heal.
Like you said in the beginning,like you do this wellness work,
you're meant to be a healer,but how do you practice
self-care, especially whendealing with trauma regularly?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So, um, I am a hundred percent into practice
what you preach.
Um, all of the homework that Icome up with and a lot of it I
come up with on the fly, right,like this person's having this
issue oh, let's try this, see ifthat works and if I have
anything that's similar to that,I'm going to do that too.
I go to the gym three to fivetimes a week.
I love the community there.
(26:47):
It's a cute little, like youknow, family-owned gym gym.
We're all friends andabsolutely love it there.
We're very supportive of eachother and I really think
community is a big deal andtrying to live that healthy
lifestyle going to the gym,trying to get that nutrition.
Obviously, you're going to makemistakes, try not to be perfect,
which is something that Istruggle with quite a bit, but
(27:11):
letting go of that perfectionismand I do resource for myself.
So we're we were told not to dofull EMDR for ourselves, that
we do need to get a therapistfor that, which I did.
Have my own EMDR therapist upuntil six months ago and I plan
on getting another one when Imoved to Florida as well, but
(27:34):
I've worked through a lot myselfso I've seen like firsthand how
much it can heal you.
And obviously I'm a therapist soI believe in therapy and
everybody needs one from time totime.
Kind of get that secondarytrauma out.
Like you said, just release it.
But all about the healthyreleases, having the support you
need, calling those supportswhen you need them, asking for
(27:55):
help.
I've got two emotional supportdogs and we go on walks and
picnics and I also love going tooutdoor events.
That's like one of my favoritethings to do, so almost every
weekend there's something goingon somewhere around us.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Oh, that's nice, that's really nice.
I love that you said thatpractice what you preach,
because that's a whole otherconversation about.
You know graduate school andwhat it leads you to being a
therapist, but I think it'simportant to you know being able
to, to put into use the toolsthat you also are providing your
clients.
And also just a reminder forpeople listening you know
(28:39):
therapists are navigating thismessy life also, just like you
and I.
You know I've often heardpeople wonder like what, if you
know, do I need to be a certainway or act a certain way?
And I love that.
You brought up the peoplepleasing and the perfection like
you don't have to be perfect,like you know, and and hearing
your passion for healing andjust you know it's clear you
love that.
You love what you do and I'mgoing to make sure in the the
(29:03):
show notes and to include yourwebsite.
But what is the best way forpeople to get in touch with you
if they're in Florida or inAlabama?
What's the best way?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
LauraThomasLICSWcom is the website.
I'm pretty sure everything ison there, but you know my phone
number and email and that'sreally the best way to get in
contact with me.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Okay, well, laura, thank you so much for sharing
your time and your insight withus, and thank you so much for
being a part of our wellnessjourney today.
Thank you and thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.