June 5, 2026 • 67 mins
In this episode of The Testimony Table Podcast, Matt and Brandon dive into one of the biggest debates of our time: Creation vs. Evolution.
We examine some of the questions that many people wrestle with when it comes to evolutionary theory. How could both male and female humans evolve at the same time and in the same place in order to reproduce? How did life originate in the first place? Does the complexity and design we see in nature point to a Creator?
Join us as we discuss scientific observations, biblical perspectives, and the questions that have led many people to believe that the universe and all life were intentionally designed by God. Whether you’re a believer, a skeptic, or simply curious, this conversation is sure to challenge you to think deeper about where we came from and why we’re here.
Real stories. Real struggles. Real miracles.
Available on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major podcast platforms.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
What's up everyone?
Welcome to the Testimony TablePodcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:13):
The podcast where it's real stories, real
struggles, and real miracles.
How everyday people share howJesus has changed their lives
forever.
And I'm Brandon, and we're bothyour hosts, and we're seriously
glad you're here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
This show is all about giving God the glory,
telling the truth, and bringinghope to people who need it most.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
In our show, we can lean heavy into a theme of
recovery, because Jesus doesn'tjust forgive, He restores, He
heals, He delivers, He can pullyou out of anything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Addiction, depression, anxiety, brokenness,
and He can turn the mess into amessage, and the pain and a
purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
We believe Jesus is still moving today, and
testimonies still have power.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
And we are here to fulfill the mission He gave us,
the Great Commission, to go, totell, and to make disciples.
So pull up a seat, lean in, andget ready.
Because your faith is about tobecome stronger than you ever
thought possible.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
Alright, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
I already changed it when I got it.
Alright, man.
Here we are.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
Alright.
Uh can I open in prayer?
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
I sure can.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Heavenly Father, thank you for this day, Lord.
Thank you for this podcast,Lord, and we dedicate it to you,
Lord.
To bring glory to your name.
Just use Matt and I to furtheryour kingdom, Lord.
And we just thank you for whatyou did on the cross for us,
(01:51):
Lord.
We can't thank you enough.
Bless his time, Lord.
Use our words to reach somebodyto further your kingdom, Lord.
We love you.
In Jesus' name I pray.
Amen.
Amen.
Alright, man.
(02:11):
Creation versus evolution.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yeah, buddy.
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
It's not much of a battle, but in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Let's just talk about it.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Yeah.
Let's do it.
So um obviously for thelisteners, we're both
Christians, so we believe Godcreated the earth in six days
and rested on the seventh.
(02:43):
Now, you know, the debate onwhether those are 24 hour days
or long periods of time.
You know, I I personally believeit was 24 hour days.
But there, you know, there'speople that say, well, you know,
(03:09):
the sun wasn't even createduntil day four, I believe.
It could have been millions ofyears, the first days, things
like that.
But I don't know.
What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Well, you know, I never really had much of an
opinion on it until we startedspeaking of it.
And the one thing that reallyjumped out to me that you said
to me that really sparked kindof like okay.
Because in a world that I livedin for a lot of years before
(03:45):
really seeking out Christianityharder was there's science in
our world and there's religionin our world, not ever really
putting much thought into howmuch those things butt head with
the top intelligent people ofour societies, you know, that
(04:10):
are well-versed in religionversus the ones that are well
versed in science, you know.
So I never really thought of itas competing forces.
I just thought it was part of myexistence on earth.
So when we spoke of it and yousaid, you know, how does
(04:32):
evolution make sense if itevolved over millions and
millions of years?
How did a species evolve, youknow, gender at the exact this
was the one thing, and it wasn'ta huge point that you made.
It was just like, how did malesand females of one species
(04:57):
evolve and happen upon over amillion years evolve at the same
sexual maturity to be able torecreate that species and and
evolve into what they are?
Over millions and millions ofyears, you think that one
species that started as amicroorganism came together and
(05:20):
both happened to hit sexualmaturity where they were able to
breed and continue that thatstuck out to me so hard in such
a small conversation.
It's like the first thing hesaid, and I'm like, you know,
that is kind of wild if it camefrom a speck of nothingness and
evolved and evolved and evolvedand evolved, and it took
(05:41):
millions of years to do, theyjust happened to be in the same
place at the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Because let's say, okay, I'll believe you that they
both evolved at the same time,but what if they and this, you
know, I listened to Dr.
Kent Hovind, and he's the onethat kind of said these things,
and so I just repeated what hewas saying, but he was like,
What if they evolved 50 milesapart from each other and and
(06:09):
never knew that each otherexisted?
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Yeah, how would they fifty miles when you're talking
you're just roaming on foot?
SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
Yeah.
So there's just way too manyvariables to to say that as
complex as our reproductiveorgans are, that that evolved
from primordial soup overmillions of years.
(06:40):
Not to mention also the earth,you know, had to have evolved
right along with them for thereto be vegetation because it we
still have to breathe, right?
So there has to be plants andvegetation that gives oxygen.
Right.
So you're you're also sayingthat is just you know, evolution
(07:02):
saying that's just acoincidence, you know.
It just I don't believe that anylogical thinker can honestly not
think that there's intelligentdesign.
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
It there's just in us speaking on it, and then
obviously preparing to speakabout it today, reading a little
bit more on what some of bothsides say, because to be fair,
there's highly intelligentpeople that's way above what my
realm of thinking could be thathas based their lives to argue
(07:41):
their point, and they have aright to argue their point, but
I think a lot comes from justarrogance as human beings that
you just that that is part ofwhat we've evolved to to think
that our mind can have theunderstanding of existence and
(08:03):
say definitively that it camefrom this or that.
You know, you are a veryintelligent person, but the
world is a very complex thing.
So to to give yourself so muchcredit to say, hey, I you know,
this is what it is, and you'redumb if you think otherwise, and
for the other side to say, well,this is what it is, because
(08:25):
obviously there's you knowthere's faith required on both
sides, right?
You you have to you have tounderstand and to say that you
completely understand one andcompletely say the other is
bogus when there's intelligentpeople on both sides speaking
their points, and when you andI've never done it until
(08:45):
recently, you know, we spokeabout it months ago, and then
when we was like, hey, what whatcan we do for an episode?
And he was like, How aboutevolution versus creation?
Okay, well, let me try to get mymind wrapped a little bit around
what people are saying on bothsides, and it's interesting,
it's a it's a fun topic to getinto and learn about.
(09:10):
So if anybody out there feelsthat they know everything about
the one thing, then start tryingto learn everything about the
other thing, and then find a wayto understand that there's
arguments that could supportboth, but then like you just
said, faith comes into play onwhichever side you choose to be
(09:32):
on, and then ask yourself whyare you choosing to shut your
mind to the other side?
So because there's science andthere's religion.
And if you're if you have anyfaith in your in your body or
your or your soul at all, allowit to absorb everything.
Because I think in our world,more so than just this topic,
(09:54):
closing our minds to what otherpeople's beliefs are is very
damaging and very hurtful to usas a society of getting along
with each other.
So it's been really cool to tokind of read and learn something
that I never really put muchthought into.
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Yeah, it I love it.
It's like you said, veryfascinating.
And you know, you you have thevery intelligent scientific
community, and and that's great,and I think it's I like to use
science to to help provecreation, in my opinion.
(10:33):
And um, there's something calledPascal's Wager.
Have you ever heard of that?
I haven't.
It's it's really cool.
Um, it was presented by BlaisePascal.
He's he's a uh a well well-knownscientist um from the 1600s.
(10:54):
And so I'm just gonna read whatwhat Pascal's wager is.
It uh it says Pascal contendsthat a rational person should
adopt a lifestyle consistentwith the existence of God and
should strive to believe in God.
The reasoning for this stanceinvolves the potential outcomes.
(11:17):
If God does not exist, thebeliever incurs only finite
losses, potentially sacrificingcertain pleasures and luxuries.
If God does exist, the believerstands to gain immeasurable as
re immeasurable as represented,for example, by an eternity in
(11:37):
heaven.
So to put it in you know moreunderstanding terms, I guess,
you know, it makes more sense tobelieve in God because you stand
to gain eternity with in heavenwith God, versus if you choose
(12:01):
to not believe in God and liveas your own God, basically, you
could end up in hell.
So it just logically makes froma scientific logical standpoint,
it makes more sense to believein God.
That's basically what he'ssaying.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
And you know, when I've I've heard that before, I
guess I just didn't know whatthe name of it was, yeah.
And hearing that, and if you ifyou broke it down to a a
standard level of the things inlife that we have, it's it's
kind of like, you know, not tobe so like against the grain,
(12:44):
but like if you had a hundreddollars standing in front of you
on a table, and someone said,You can walk through this door,
there's gonna be$75 to a milliondollars.
Your lowest gain is gonna be$75,your biggest gain is gonna be a
(13:08):
million dollars.
You can walk through that door,or you can pick up his hundred
dollar bill and just walk away.
Why wouldn't you walk throughthe door?
Yeah, because maybe you lose$25,or maybe you gain a million,
yeah, minus a hundred.
You know, like it's not thathard of a choice when it's
(13:28):
things that you really want, butfaith is about trusting in
things that you don't know thatyou need until you start
following and feel what it doesto your heart.
You know, it's it's been such anamazing thing to to put that
faith there and to pray and tofeel, you know, we spoke, and
(13:55):
I'm just gonna go there, butjust because last night I went
to the Passion of the Christ.
It was a play put on by a localchurch up in the community my
brother's from.
And I've never seen the moviePassion of the Christ.
I've obviously read the Biblethat it was based off of, but to
get that visual interpretationof what I've read was so
(14:16):
powerful.
Yeah.
And when the pastor came outwhen it was over and he spoke,
and he said, You know, if youallow the Holy Spirit into your
heart, there's there's you willfeel, and he was speaking, and
it's just so true.
And all I sat there and thoughtafter watching this amazing
production by these local, thislocal church, it was
(14:40):
unbelievably good.
And we spoke.
We'll we'll definitely go back.
It's an annual thing.
It it's they do such a greatjob.
But it was uh it's just when Ihear him say that, it's like,
man, he's talking to thisauditorium that has, you know,
maybe 200 people, 300 people.
(15:00):
I don't I don't know.
It's it was big, it wasn't huge.
I mean, probably a couplehundred at least, and he's
telling them like you know, andI don't I'm sure there was a
people that sat in there to seethe production that didn't
understand what he's saying.
I know I know there was a lot ofpeople in there that did.
And uh, if I went a few yearsago, I might not have understood
(15:21):
what he was saying.
But when you open that up, itit's worth the faith.
It's worth saying, okay, youknow, this if you believe in one
miraculous thing, then you haveto believe in any miraculous
thing.
SPEAKER_02 (15:39):
And absolutely, and and atheists choose to believe
in science, right?
But I would say scientism orpseudoscience, a lot of it.
But you know, Wesley Huff sayshe said this, he said, you know,
they'll deny the the virginbirth, but believe in the virgin
(16:00):
birth of the universe.
You believe that a finite thingthe size of the head of a pen
exploded into what created theentire universe.
And even even the explosion hadto have been a perfect explosion
(16:21):
that would allow matter tocoalesce into planets.
Because if you think of anexplosion, right, it it's gonna
go out away from itself and it'snever gonna collide.
So the explosion would have hadto have been like a a weird type
of explosion to where thingswere allowed to collide and and
(16:42):
coalesced into planets andstuff.
So even that is I mean, youbelieve in a miracle, and you
have to have faith no matterwhat, if you believe in
evolution.
But there was a thought that Ihad um that I think is
(17:03):
interesting and it's it's reallysimple.
It's the fact that everybody onearth is faced with this
question where did we come from?
And is there a God?
(17:26):
I think the fact that we're allfaced with that is proof that
there is a God.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
I mean, I'm I'm following I mean I know I think
I know what you're you'resaying.
Like you you would have to tohave to wonder and not have a
definitive answer kind of speaksfor itself, you know.
(17:58):
It's like, well, nothing reallymakes sense about where we came
from or how we exist.
I mean, at my level of ablue-collar worker that's never,
you know, put my life'sdedication into to being uh a
scholar in either form thatwe're speaking of.
(18:20):
But yeah, the fact that it's aquestion and not an answer says
that either side is right therefor the taking.
It's just what you choose tohave faith in.
Do you choose to have faith inscience?
Do you choose to have faith in ahigher power?
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
And well, I feel like evolution is all about
efficiency, right?
We've evolved, uh there's beenmistakes over millions or
billions of years.
Is it efficient to to have thisthought that we all have?
(18:59):
I mean So I I've got a quotehere from C.S.
Lewis, it's very interesting.
Um C.S.
Lewis is just a brilliant man.
He um, you know, obviously wrotethe Narnia books and stuff.
(19:20):
Um, but he said, if there's nointelligence behind the
universe, no one designed mybrain for the purpose of
thinking.
It is merely that when the atomsinside my skull happen for
physical or chemical reasons toarrange themselves in a certain
way, this gives me as abyproduct the sensation I call
(19:43):
thought.
It's like upsetting a milk jugand hoping that the way it
splashes itself will give you amap of London.
It's like an atheist can't evenif they believe in evolution,
they can't even trust their ownthoughts, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah.
That was it, that was anotherthing that I had seen.
I like I said, I don't want tomake myself sound too
intelligent on uh what I read,you know, because I I guess in
our technological world, it'seasy to get the opinions in
video format of what it is.
But anyway, yeah, I seen that.
It's like if everything is justscience, then you know,
(20:29):
feelings, you know, thoughts,nothing is nothing is exact.
It's all just happened.
It's all maybe, maybe you'llthink this at this point.
Well, when I'm watching a movie,and in my mind, maybe sometimes
you know, a little ADHD jumpsout there, and and my mind does
(20:52):
go nut.
But most of the time when you'rewanting to consciously think of
something, you consciously thinkof it.
It's not just happens to say,well, it it's just so infinite,
man.
And and the things, and I wishthat I had a a quicker uh way of
(21:12):
saying what I but it wasclicking as I was listening and
as I was some reading, just notas much as listening, but some
reading, you know, it it just itall makes sense to say it's just
as likely to have faith in thisas the people that choose to not
(21:33):
have faith in Christ and God andthe Holy Spirit.
It's you can you can argue yourpoints.
I mean, we're in a society nowwhere there's highly intelligent
people that argue men are women,and I don't want to go there,
but I'm just anyone can soundintelligent with their argument
if you're intelligent enough tobe able to put the words
(21:57):
together.
It's all brain games.
You know, because there'sintelligent people that listen
to these Harvard graduates thatare saying, Yeah, you know, well
it's just how you it's like butwhen you get down and you you
swipe away all the fancy wordingand the way that it's spoken and
you just listen to what theirargument is, then you can say,
Well, that's crazy.
(22:18):
Or or you know, I I mean, Idon't want to be insulting to
anyone, but I mean that's justnonsense.
You're saying it veryintelligently.
Right.
And if if you just if you leftall the the stuff caked around
it, you could say, Man, that's agood point.
But when you say, Well,biologically, that's impossible,
you know, and and it's likeanyone can say anything
(22:39):
intelligently.
Yeah.
And these two things, I thinkthere are a lot of intelligence
spoken on both sides, from whatI've read.
And I give credit to the peoplethat have that brain power to
dig in deep and deep and and andtry to support their beliefs.
(23:00):
But why why discard the other asif it's trash?
Why discard the other as if it'san impossibility, as if your
reasoning is more possible?
Because on the other side,there's people digging and
finding ways to prove that to anextent what their beliefs are is
(23:20):
real.
So if we if you just existedwith the facts that there are
that science does help our worldevolve as a society, but as a
being, humans, evolution really,and what I've read preparing for
for this, it it's it's very,very much harder to believe that
(23:45):
evolved over a billion yearsthan it is to believe that
creation.
There's a lot of amazing thingson both sides, but I don't I
don't know.
Like I said, it's but what youknow I couldn't sit in a room
with some with a scientist, witha doctorate, and argue with
them.
But there's people, there'sthere's doctorates sitting in
(24:07):
rooms convincing people ofnonsense things in our world
right now that would have ananswer, and then I would just
get tongue-tied and I would justhave to say, all right, man.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Well, yeah, but really it comes down to God has
proven himself to you because ofhow you feel, right?
Inside.
Right.
And nobody can take that awayfrom you, no matter how
intelligent they are, and howfancy of the words they use to
(24:39):
try to get you to not believe inGod.
And um, you know, some of themost brilliant minds to ever
live.
Einstein was a Christian, IsaacNewton was a Christian.
Um a current brilliant mind isuh Dr.
(25:03):
Michael Gillen.
He has an amazing podcast calledScience Plus God.
I've listened to a lot of hisstuff.
That'd be cool to get him on oneday if we could.
But um he talks about you know,people will say, Well, I don't
believe in anything that I can'tsee or can't be scientifically
(25:30):
proven.
And it's like, really?
You're breathing, aren't you?
Can you can you see the air thatyou're breathing?
But you believe it's there,right?
And also even deeper, like darkmatter makes up 90% of our
universe, they say.
(25:50):
But it's never been detected,never been discovered.
It's just there to make the mathwork.
And then also there's you know,people like you said, much
smarter than you or I arescientists about this, but you
know, I've done a fair amount ofresearch on it, and it's
(26:11):
interesting how planets if itwas a big bang that created the
universe there's a a prettyprominent school of thought that
says everything would have torotate in the same direction.
(26:32):
All the planets.
They would all have to rotate inthe same direction, but we don't
see that.
And it's just more proof to meof a divine creator, and yes, it
cre it it requires faith.
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
But what about our existence doesn't?
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
No matter how you feel.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Yeah, and I believe that comes back down to Pascal's
wager.
You know, if you have all thesequestions, logically, why not
just believe in God and go downthat path because you know that
there's people that have set outto disprove the existence of
(27:17):
Jesus and then then they becomeChristians.
SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
That's the problem with it is that you are just
completely and that's when I didthe research, you know, to to
try to prepare myself a littlebit for the conversation that I
kind of read both sides.
Like, why?
If you are so intelligent andyou have the ability to dig so
(27:43):
deep because your brain isstrong enough and you are an
intelligent human being, andyou're able to have dug so far
into this side of it to agree,and I don't I don't care.
I don't believe that the peoplethat speak atheists and and
(28:04):
totally, like you said, thebrilliant minds that were
Christians as well.
That's probably because theytook their brain power and
learned about both and andlearned to believe and accept
that both are very prevalent inour society and would be
beneficial in our society.
Science and religion is a greatcomponent to help us evolve as
(28:31):
society, but understanding whatwe are as humans and the
feelings that we have, and youknow, the anger and and just
happiness.
That's all stuff that'sindividually us.
There's no way that we evolve,but yet our brains work so
different, and that's what makesthe world beautiful is that
(28:53):
there's so many different typesof beings, personalities,
physical beings.
You know, you got the big,crazy, tough guy, you got the
little guy, you got the mediumguy, you got the fat guy and the
skinny guy, and we're all ourown people and we have our own
thoughts.
That's that's a brilliant thing.
The the idea that you could beso smart to dig so deep into
(29:17):
science, but refuse to evenattempt to dig halfway through
Christianity or religion andjust and just throw it aside
like it's nonsense.
Like, why not you were clearlyblessed with a very powerful
brain, and you're using it tospeak out against who created
(29:39):
you.
unknown (29:39):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Like you have a special gift, and you and you're
you're not giving credit whereit's due by not even attempting
to to feel that, you know, or ordig into it and learn it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
And and I I I like to get to the root, and I I love
the the human brain and how wecan just justify and convince
ourselves.
You know, it seems like umatheists just don't like the way
(30:17):
religion or God is presented tothem, you know.
When it comes down to it, youknow, especially let's focus on
the Bible, you know, the way Godintends us to live, it goes
against what you what a normalhuman or flesh wants to do.
(30:39):
And that's how I th I know thatit is God's word, because if it
was written by humans, I mean itwas written by humans but
inspired by God, it wouldn'tconflict with what our flesh
desires, you know.
That cube's not on, dude.
Oh man.
Squirrel.
(31:00):
Yeah.
A D D.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Let me just let me let me solvethat for you.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Yeah, man.
Thank you.
But yeah, at the end of the day,I I believe you just deny God
because you don't like how He'sbeen presented to you.
You know, I know people aregonna say, no, no, that's not
right, but yeah, that's what Ibelieve, and that's I think in
(31:28):
your heart of hearts, deep downthat's what atheists think.
SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
Well, you know, and I I don't I don't disagree with
with that thought.
You know, would wouldChristianity be a lot more
supported and a lot more if itmeant that you could do
everything that your brain thatthat you know there's a there's
(32:01):
a lot of things uh but I foundand we spoke about it before it
started, I found that you knowwalking through life with Jesus
in my heart has been way easierthan walking through life with
drugs in my blood, you know.
You can say there there's funthings about partying and and
(32:25):
going out and drinking and youknow, but there's my Friday
night consisted of me and mywife meeting up with my brother
and his family and going into achurch and watching a play put
on it about what Jesus did foryou and everything.
(32:46):
Oh my goodness.
It was it was just a greatnight, man.
And one of the one of thecoolest things, you know, I love
to go to baseball games.
I'm a big baseball fan, I'm abig football fan.
I I love the things I there'snothing in this world that you
can do as a Christian and tryingto follow, you know, I don't I
(33:08):
don't have a perfect language.
I mean, I swear, and I've I'veworked on it, and we spoke about
it before, you know, it's like,man, it's a little bit tougher
than I thought just to live.
You know, I it it's just who Iam as a person and things that,
you know, if you have thingsthat you're working on to become
a better person and a personthat can relate and have a sh
(33:33):
and be a shoulder for anybodythat wants to talk to you,
whether it be someone that'snever walked a day in the shoes
that you've walked, or whetherit be someone that's in a dark
hole walking, why would you whywould you close your heart to
that?
Why would you say just stop withthat?
(33:55):
That's not it's just as possibleas anything that science can do,
because no science, no drug, nodrink, no food that I've ever
put in my body has lifted theweight off of my feet the way
letting Jesus into my heart has.
And that's honestly speaking,that that has been something
(34:19):
that I've noticed as beingsomeone that was older and
becoming a father for the firsttime, scared to death of my
energy.
How am I gonna keep up with akid?
You know?
Yeah.
And it was something that Istruggled with.
And, you know, finding thatlightness and that understanding
(34:42):
has just been it's beeneverything to to the way that I
live my day-to-day life.
I still say things that Iprobably shouldn't say just in
for the sake of humor or s orsomething, you know.
I try not to ever disrespectanother human.
I try not to be, you know, butthe reality is, is I should work
(35:04):
on that, but I am, and I'llcontinue to, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (35:09):
And that's and that's that's what Jesus does,
man.
He creates He makes you a newcreation, He works inside of you
on your heart and changes you.
And to get scientific on this,isn't this amazing?
Uh laminin is a protein thatliterally holds all of our atoms
(35:38):
together.
It's like the glue of our bodyto you know, for lack of a
better explanation.
But get this the laminin proteinis in the shape of a cross.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
Yeah.
I mean there there's a there's aprime example of science and
religion.
What became it's I just believein my heart that there's
obviously science is a huge partof our society.
(36:17):
Obviously, Western medicine hasdone in prolonged lives to a
great extent.
And I respect every personthat's in a lab working to try
to keep learning new thingsabout our world that we can use
with what we have here.
(36:37):
I think it's brilliant.
I think it's great.
I think it's way above my mentalcapacity to understand what
these people are doing.
And but like you said, you know,the the Christianity and
understanding what Christ didand understanding that those
things happened at those timesfor us as humanity.
(37:02):
And, you know, the creation thatgave free will is something that
I think people just they'reusing.
What it you just have to be, andI don't mean disrespect, but
it's it's it's closed-minded tojust there's lots of questions.
(37:23):
I have as a Christian, I havelots of questions.
As I'm reading through the Biblefor the first time, from front
to back, it's left me with alot, we've discussed it, you
know.
It's not wrong as a Christian,it's it's not bad to to question
the things that you're readingas a Christian.
(37:44):
As is it bad if you readsomething in science that you
don't understand and you have toread further and read.
I mean, that's what we do ashumans to get an understanding
of what's what.
So why I would never throw ascientist into a garbage can and
think any of the science is anyif you've done science your
(38:06):
whole life and you've onlycontributed to our society with
one of the things that you'velearned, then you've contributed
to our society, and that's worthuplifting and that's worth being
proud of.
So I don't think that scientistsshould just throw religion or
Christianity, you know, creationinto the garbage can because I
(38:31):
don't think any human being, nomatter how intelligent you are,
can understand what creation is,how it was technically done.
I I just don't think that ahuman brain is capable of
understanding that.
And there's a lot of things thatmy human brain isn't capable of
understanding, and I wouldn'tever be so arrogant to say
(38:54):
because I don't understand it,it can't be.
SPEAKER_02 (38:57):
And and the Bible talks about that in Isaiah
chapter 55, verses 8 and 9, itsays, For my thoughts are not
your thoughts, neither are yourways my ways, declares the Lord.
As the heavens are higher thanthe earth, so are my ways higher
than your ways, and my thoughtsthan your thoughts.
(39:19):
You know, we're created in theimage of God.
We we are not God, we're farfrom it.
There's no way we're ever gonnaunderstand everything about
creation, you know, the creatorof the heavens and the earth,
(39:41):
the most intelligent being, forthe lack of a proper word for
God, entity, whatever you wantto call him, we we can never
completely understand that.
And that's you know, again, youwant to put your faith in a
(40:02):
human, what science tells you,because science is in the
business of disproving science.
I'll tell you that.
How many times do you havesomething said, and then 10
years later science is like, oh,we discovered that that's not
true.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
It's happening over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Yeah, so you put your faith in something that is
constantly wrong sometimes, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
Or dare you say, evolving, you know.
It's it's you that's what Imean.
At the time that those thingswere spoken of, you know, you're
supposed to drink as much milkand all the milk that you can
drink, it's gonna strengthenyour body, it's gonna do all.
And now when when my kid wasborn, they're like, You gotta
(40:56):
monitor only do so much milk.
Yeah.
Because it it can cause uh uh,you know, it's like what?
When I was a kid, all my momwanted to do was give me glasses
of milk to drink because thatwas you know, so but the people
of the time that came up withthat, published that and put
(41:16):
that out for us as a society toto use as a as a learning tool
were the top brains of theirtime.
Well, it's changed, it's everchanging, and the brain
continues to grow.
So, how can you be so certain ofsomething and so dismissive of
something else?
Because the reality is, and likeyou said earlier, the fact that
(41:40):
there's that question mark afterwhere'd we come from, not this
is where we came from.
Yeah, that means that there's nocertainties in one or the other.
But faith is the is thedifference.
Faith can go out and out.
It don't have to, you don't haveto take your faith and put it
(42:02):
all in science, and you don'thave to take your faith and put
it all in Christianity.
You can just have faith in whatour world is, and our world is
science, and our world isreligion.
And to I I just sound like a brI know I keep saying it, you
know, but it it's just it justdoesn't make sense to put I mean
(42:28):
it's almost bear with me, uhlike I don't I don't know, you
know, it's almost like racism,you know?
Like, why do you why are therepeople in this world that hate
somebody because of who theyare?
That makes no sense to me.
SPEAKER_02 (42:43):
It's indoctrination, it's learned.
SPEAKER_01 (42:45):
And and I on a on a different level, you know, to to
love science and hate religion.
It doesn't have anything to dowith race, but it's still
displaced hatred for no realapparent reason.
Why, why would you be why wouldyou dedicate your life to
(43:05):
dogging religion?
Why why would that be yourlife's mission to try to turn
people away from somethingthat's so beautiful?
That to me is that's hatredthat's doing that.
There's in the world doesn'tneed hate.
SPEAKER_02 (43:18):
Yeah, I've seen some atheists that are like that, you
know.
And it's it's yeah, it'smind-blowing.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
And and what I've watched, you know, it's so
mind-blowing is the arrogancethat almost drips off these
people as they're speaking.
Well, this guy says this.
Oh my goodness, this isunbelievable.
Like, really?
Who are you?
Yeah, who are you to say that?
Yeah, you know, you're talkingabout someone that has just as
much education as you and whatthey chose to learn about.
SPEAKER_02 (43:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
You know, there's a lot of things that we read on
both sides that just seemunbelievable.
Faith is the is the divider,you're you know, it is chosen.
Put your faith in the world, ineverything that comes with it.
Creation came with our world.
We were created.
(44:11):
Evolution is a theory.
The Big Bang is a theory.
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
And theories are not anything that you can hang your
hat on and say definitively with100% with 100% certainty.
I can't say that we were createdby God with 100% certainty.
Obviously.
I can't say we evolved.
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Well you can, but you can't prove it with a
hundred percent of the city.
SPEAKER_01 (44:39):
I mean, I'm choosing to put my faith in creation
because I felt I can say onehundred percent that God exists.
SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
Jesus is, you know, Jesus came down.
I I can say that with a hundredpercent and certainty because
that's what I know in my heartand my mind.
SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
And that's what you believe.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
But I cannot prove it to somebody else.
SPEAKER_01 (45:01):
No.
As can evolution not be provenby anybody.
So it all comes back to faith.
What are you putting your faithin?
And if you're choosing to putyour faith in this, then then
that's your free will.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
You're allowed to, but the people that are making
their lives work to try to turnpeople away from Christ is just
so absurd.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
And and you know, you know, I believe 100% that
the devil uses science todistract people from Jesus.
And I think it's interesting umyou know, there's only one
example I can think of, butthere's there's several where,
(45:53):
you know, the the Bible saysthat 666 is, you know, the mark
of the beast.
Mark of the Beast, the devil'snumber.
And that calling card is leftall over our society, and people
don't want to believe it or oror even recognize it, but the
(46:17):
tilt of the earth we're told istwenty-three point four degrees.
And you know how degrees work,right?
You know, we have ninety ninetydegree angles and three hundred
and sixty degrees full circle.
Um you take ninety degrees minustwenty-three point four, you get
(46:37):
sixty-six point six degrees.
Um I think that's reallyinteresting.
You know, I'm sure you knowpeople would say, no, that's
just it's just coincidence, it'smath, that's science.
I think Satan leaves his callingcard on a lot of things.
(46:58):
Um and I just think that's crazyto me.
And there's you know, the Biblekind of preaches this geocentric
universe, and that's geocentricmeans the earth is the center of
the universe, and everythingrevolves around the earth.
(47:19):
That's the basic premise of whata geocentric universe is, and
that's what was preached for youknow hundreds of years, and then
Copernicus came about and and hequote unquote discovered the
heliocentric model, which iseverything revolves around our
(47:42):
sun.
And I think that was you know,that was Satan trying to create
a a system that's against theBible.
Um so I just I think that that'sinteresting.
(48:04):
And um you know, people want tobelieve in evolution and like we
talked about male and femaleevolving at the same time, and
just also vegetation having toevolve at the same time for
procreation and you knowsustenance to live and breathe.
(48:27):
Um and not to mention I I wantto talk about the human eye real
quick, and how the human eye isinsanely complex.
I I wish I could remember thename of this scientist, but the
human eye he studied, and that'swhat made him believe in God, is
because um if any one thing, anymolecule or atom is off, your
(48:54):
eyes won't work.
Um but so the electromagneticspectrum, that is what we
consider visible light.
The human eye, and this iscrazy, is as complex as the
human eye is, we can only seepoint zero zero thive percent of
(49:15):
of the electromagnetic spectrumof what is visible light.
So that's closer to nothing thananything.
Yeah, I mean almost a hundredpercent of what visible light is
the electromagnetic spectrum, wecan't even see it.
(49:36):
So i if you don't think I meanto me that's evidence of a a
spiritual realm that can be allaround us that we just can't
see, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Yeah, yeah.
That I I that was something thatI can't the human eye was
something that said virtuallyimpossible to have evolved.
Yeah.
There's there's there's not itlike the there there's things
(50:12):
that and the human eye stuck outto me because it was
interesting, and and I rememberreading the the guy's name that
said it, but I can't it's not infront of me and I can't I can't
remember it, but I read the samething that you're speaking of.
It it's virtually impossible,basically, is what it broke down
as is to to be able to haveevolved into what it is and and
(50:33):
what its capabilities are, whichin the overall spectrum, no pun
intended, isn't isn't much, youknow.
Like it when you think whatyou're looking at, like if you
was looking at point what whatwhat was that number you gave?
SPEAKER_02 (50:49):
Point zero zero three five percent.
SPEAKER_01 (50:53):
Of a puzzle, you would have absolutely no idea
what that puzzle not even a halfof a percent was gonna be.
I mean, you wouldn't youprobably wouldn't even be able
to determine the color of theone piece, the point zero zero
three percent.
So when you think of it likethat, if you're looking at at a
(51:16):
a picture that you can only seethat much of, you would have
absolutely no idea what you waslooking at.
Right.
So do we even know what we'relooking at?
SPEAKER_02 (51:27):
Yeah, yeah.
100 closer to 100% of what we'relooking at.
SPEAKER_01 (51:32):
That's a pretty that's a pretty staggering.
I didn't see that number aboutthe human eye, and I haven't
heard that before.
Maybe uh other people have,maybe I'm really behind the
eight ball on that, but that'sthat's wild.
That's a that's a crazy numberto say that I'm staring into
space right now and I'm seeingthe walls and I'm seeing the
pictures and I'm seeingeverything that's in front of
(51:53):
me, and I think I'm seeingeverything.
My eyes are getting bad, but Iyou know, I don't think they're
0.033 bad, you know.
So there's a lot of gazillionthings right in front of my face
that my eyes just can't detect.
That's that's that's that'swild.
I know you know it's it's beenuh it's such a cool
(52:13):
conversation, and I guess Iwould just like tell people, and
there's gonna be them top-tierguys that could ever hear
someone, you know, just aregular Joe sitting in front of
a microphone talking to say, butI mean, just for for the other
(52:34):
average Joes out there, if youhave any questions, you know,
just just it's we have the worldat our fingertips at this point,
you know.
We have opinions from top mindsof both sides.
We got artificial intelligencethat can that can give you
arguments right in front of yourface in real time, and you can
(52:55):
spend today reading about thisand tomorrow reading about that,
and and just choose.
Why why close your mind to theinfinite possibilities of what
our world is and where we camefrom?
Because it's not we came from,it's where did we come from?
Yeah, that's that's questionmark means everything, and that
(53:16):
means no one should be soarrogant to close their mind to
the to any other possibility,and that's whether you're a
Christian or you're whetheryou're an atheist.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
Grow your grow your understanding of the world, and
if you have and you choose thatway, then live that way.
Don't make it your life's workto pull other people that may
not be as intelligent as youwith your intelligent words away
from Christ, you know.
Yeah.
To to to actually make yourlife's mission to turn people
(53:49):
away from Christ is the mostunuseful, unneeded act in this
world.
Right there with murder, rape,and any other, you know, that
anybody, any human with any soulcan can understand as isn't
right.
To try to actively turn peopleaway from Christ is something
that no human that shouldn't beyour mission in life, because
(54:12):
there's no need for it.
Christianity and opening yourand letting Christ live in your
heart is not detrimental toanybody in any way whatsoever.
SPEAKER_02 (54:25):
Absolutely, amen.
And it I it really comes down tothis.
The Bible tells us in Ephesians6, verse 12, for we wrestle not
against flesh and blood, butagainst principalities, against
powers, against the rulers ofthe darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness,wickedness in high places.
(54:49):
At the end of the day, we're inspiritual warfare, whether you
want to acknowledge it or not,and I just proved to you through
science that there's a wholeworld that you can't see.
You can only see 0.0035%.
(55:10):
100% closer to 100% you can'tsee.
I just think that's amazing.
Like you you can't logically saythere's not a spiritual a
possible a possibility of aspiritual world all around you
just based on science, you know?
(55:33):
And I just I love thatstatistic, or if you want to
call it that.
Um and when you you get any evendeeper into researching
evolution, you know, they theysay, well, you know, uh you
(55:56):
know, carbon dating says that uhthis rock is thirteen million
years old.
Well there's been tests doneusing carbon dating that prove
that it's not reliable.
So you know you can choose tobelieve in carbon dating, but I
(56:19):
can find scientific experimentsthat disprove its its
credibility.
SPEAKER_01 (56:24):
So that you know, and I think we're getting close,
I think, to to just getting ourconclusion and and wrapping up,
but just that alone, like Ithink it's and and how does that
form, you know, we get anequation, we say, okay, we know
that this thing is a hundredyears old.
(56:46):
So if we take what we see andjust put it into this equation
with the difference between thisrock and that rock, then it
should accurately date.
This is all way above myunderstanding.
And I believe that there it youcan probably get a range of
accuracy, but when you'retalking millions of years, yeah,
(57:10):
there's no way.
There's I you you might be ableto have a small understanding,
but nothing is absolute.
SPEAKER_02 (57:19):
100%.
And I I just as we wrap up, Ijust have a few more things to
talk about.
Um, so a lot of the times thatevolution uses is based off of
what's called the geologiccolumn.
And the geologic column isbasically just levels of
(57:44):
geology, right?
That you know, it took millionsof years to create this level,
millions of this level, thislevel, this level.
And I think it's hilarious to meactually, because I didn't get a
bunch of time to research this,but I'm pretty sure that the
geologic column was just made upso they could use it to to
(58:09):
create times and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (58:11):
To date certain events in history, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (58:14):
But there's been several discoveries of trees
that are right through all thesedifferent levels of you know
geology that they claim to bemillions of years.
How's there a fossilized treegoing through it all?
(58:34):
You know what I mean?
Right.
And and it actually proves theGreat Flood.
You know, all that happenedrather quickly after the the
Great Flood talked about in theBible.
That is more easily explainedthan the geologic column in
millions of years, it makes moresense when you find trees that
(58:58):
are through all these differentlevels.
And another point is we we'reborn into this, I'm gonna say
magical world or spiritualworld, and we don't realize how
(59:18):
amazing it is because we justgrow up in it, right?
Like gravity.
You know, scientists can sitthere and try to explain we we
see attributes of gravity, butit we don't know exactly what
gravity is.
Like that to me is evidence of adivine creator.
(59:43):
I mean, you're telling me thatquintillions of tons of water
can be held to a spinning ball,and I can fill up a helium
balloon and or a butterfly canfly right over top of the ocean.
(01:00:06):
There's a force that's holdingall that water to a spinning
ball, but a butterfly can justfly right over, you know, and
I'm sure there's scientists outthere that would explain it
away, but you know, we we'reborn into this world where we
(01:00:26):
breathe something we can't evensee.
And it's we just I'm in awe ofGod's creation and just
everything as we should be.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:42):
Yeah, we I mean the the reality everyone says uh the
the human brain, you know, whatour bodies are capable of at the
lowest form of human I mean towatch our children grow up and
watch them learn from theseslobbering goo goo guy guys into
(01:01:08):
learning one word and anotherword.
The I mean life is beautiful,and I think we lose sight of
that more than we should, andI'm just as guilty as anybody of
it, you know.
But as I've gotten older, I justfeel like if we all just took a
(01:01:32):
step back and understoodourselves and our own
insecurities and understand thatevery person around us, if you
see someone afflicted, someonethat doesn't look normal to you,
to understand that's just that'stheir that's their life, and
they deserve to be loved as muchas the most beautiful person in
(01:01:53):
the world deserves to be loved.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, life isbeautiful.
The fact that we're walking onthis rock and we're breathing
what God's given us and we'relearning, never stop your
learning.
When you close your mind, yourlearning stops.
Yeah.
And I think a human should belearning and choosing to try to
(01:02:15):
learn until their last breath,until they get to move on into
and into the infinite life.
Amen.
You know, this this world is isa beautiful thing to be on and
to experience, but it's just astopping point for something way
bigger.
(01:02:36):
And if you have faith in that,then walking and being kind is
so much easier.
We're not perfect, we get angry,we lash out.
Always always check yourself onthat, I think.
Yeah, because I had I had to,because I I wasn't always this
way.
I I always joke, I've gotten alot softer and a lot more
(01:02:58):
emotional the older I've gotten,you know.
But it's a beautiful thing.
The age with age comes new uh Idon't know what I'm it you learn
as you go, and if you ever stoplearning, then you stop.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03:17):
With age comes wisdom, is it wisdom, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:19):
There you go.
That's a that's an that's a oldone, oldie but goody, you know.
Yeah, maybe that is it, youknow.
It's like you you learn and youtry to pass it on to your
children, and it's veryfrustrating to say, man, they
think you're just some old guyjust spouting because you want
to keep them from having fun.
Yeah.
The humans should constantlylearn.
Like children have to learn toget to a certain point to where
(01:03:42):
they can have conversations andthey can tell you that they're
hungry, and they can tell youthat they're sleepy, and they
can tell you this.
You know, us even as adulthumans, we should be learning to
our last breath, and then we'llbe ready to embrace what the
next step is to come becauseit'll probably be a whole other
infinite time of learning.
(01:04:06):
It's just it's so it's so niceto have faith.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
Amen, brother, amen.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:15):
People people should should really just love one
another, and I'm not trying tolove peace and chicken grease,
but truly the world would existin a lot calmer state if
everyone could learn that we'reall beings that were created by
God, that were put here to getto experience something
(01:04:38):
beautiful that is really justalways taken for granted.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:45):
Amen.
And like I keep telling you,man, it's so encouraging to see
what God's doing in your life,to see and how he's enlightening
you through his word, and youknow, as we wrap up, you know, I
I like I'm I'm liking to closeand and an opportunity for
(01:05:08):
people to accept Christ.
And um you know, one of myfavorite verses, Romans 10 9, if
you confess with your mouth thatJesus is Lord and you believe in
your heart that God raised himfrom the dead, you will be
saved.
And John 3 16, for God so lovedthe world he gave his only
(01:05:30):
begotten son, that whosoeverbelieves in him shall not
perish, but have everlastinglife.
So I implore you, I I pray thatyou the listener, if it's even
just one person, you know, ifthis has touched you in any way,
(01:05:52):
I'm talking to you, just confessthat Jesus is Lord and just pray
and say, Lord, I don't have allthe answers, I don't understand
it all, but I want to give mylife to you, and I want you to
be in my heart.
And if you truly mean that whenyou say it and you seek him with
your whole heart, you're gonnabe changed.
(01:06:15):
And I I just pray that you do.
And uh did you have anythingelse?
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:25):
And I I knew when we started that it was gonna be
fun, and it has been.
Absolutely, and like I said,there's a lot smarter people
than me in the world, and I hopesome of them watch this and
maybe say, hey, you know, thisguy.
Maybe I ought to dig a littledeeper.
Maybe they won't.
But I had fun talking to youabout it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06:44):
Me too, man.
And then you know, the Biblesays don't throw your pearls
among swine or something likethat.
You know, there's gonna bepeople that are gonna be haters,
and you know, we've talked aboutthat, we're prepared for that.
But we keep our faith in theAlmighty, right?
Amen.
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:04):
Later y'all.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
Peace.
Have a good one.
What's up everyone?
Welcome to the Testimony TablePodcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:13):
The podcast where it's real stories, real
struggles, and real miracles.
How everyday people share howJesus has changed their lives
forever.
And I'm Brandon, and we're bothyour hosts, and we're seriously
glad you're here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
This show is all about giving God the glory,
telling the truth, and bringinghope to people who need it most.
SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
In our show, we can lean heavy into a theme of
recovery, because Jesus doesn'tjust forgive, He restores, He
heals, He delivers, He can pullyou out of anything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Addiction, depression, anxiety, brokenness,
and He can turn the mess into amessage, and the pain and a
purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
We believe Jesus is still moving today, and
testimonies still have power.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
And we are here to fulfill the mission He gave us,
the Great Commission, to go, totell, and to make disciples.
So pull up a seat, lean in, andget ready.
Because your faith is about tobecome stronger than you ever
thought possible.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
Alright, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
I already changed it when I got it.
Alright, man.
Here we are.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
Alright.
Uh can I open in prayer?
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
I sure can.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Heavenly Father, thank you for this day, Lord.
Thank you for this podcast,Lord, and we dedicate it to you,
Lord.
To bring glory to your name.
Just use Matt and I to furtheryour kingdom, Lord.
And we just thank you for whatyou did on the cross for us,
(01:51):
Lord.
We can't thank you enough.
Bless his time, Lord.
Use our words to reach somebodyto further your kingdom, Lord.
We love you.
In Jesus' name I pray.
Amen.
Amen.
Alright, man.
(02:11):
Creation versus evolution.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yeah, buddy.
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
It's not much of a battle, but in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Let's just talk about it.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Yeah.
Let's do it.
So um obviously for thelisteners, we're both
Christians, so we believe Godcreated the earth in six days
and rested on the seventh.
(02:43):
Now, you know, the debate onwhether those are 24 hour days
or long periods of time.
You know, I I personally believeit was 24 hour days.
But there, you know, there'speople that say, well, you know,
(03:09):
the sun wasn't even createduntil day four, I believe.
It could have been millions ofyears, the first days, things
like that.
But I don't know.
What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Well, you know, I never really had much of an
opinion on it until we startedspeaking of it.
And the one thing that reallyjumped out to me that you said
to me that really sparked kindof like okay.
Because in a world that I livedin for a lot of years before
(03:45):
really seeking out Christianityharder was there's science in
our world and there's religionin our world, not ever really
putting much thought into howmuch those things butt head with
the top intelligent people ofour societies, you know, that
(04:10):
are well-versed in religionversus the ones that are well
versed in science, you know.
So I never really thought of itas competing forces.
I just thought it was part of myexistence on earth.
So when we spoke of it and yousaid, you know, how does
(04:32):
evolution make sense if itevolved over millions and
millions of years?
How did a species evolve, youknow, gender at the exact this
was the one thing, and it wasn'ta huge point that you made.
It was just like, how did malesand females of one species
(04:57):
evolve and happen upon over amillion years evolve at the same
sexual maturity to be able torecreate that species and and
evolve into what they are?
Over millions and millions ofyears, you think that one
species that started as amicroorganism came together and
(05:20):
both happened to hit sexualmaturity where they were able to
breed and continue that thatstuck out to me so hard in such
a small conversation.
It's like the first thing hesaid, and I'm like, you know,
that is kind of wild if it camefrom a speck of nothingness and
evolved and evolved and evolvedand evolved, and it took
(05:41):
millions of years to do, theyjust happened to be in the same
place at the same time.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Because let's say, okay, I'll believe you that they
both evolved at the same time,but what if they and this, you
know, I listened to Dr.
Kent Hovind, and he's the onethat kind of said these things,
and so I just repeated what hewas saying, but he was like,
What if they evolved 50 milesapart from each other and and
(06:09):
never knew that each otherexisted?
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Yeah, how would they fifty miles when you're talking
you're just roaming on foot?
SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
Yeah.
So there's just way too manyvariables to to say that as
complex as our reproductiveorgans are, that that evolved
from primordial soup overmillions of years.
(06:40):
Not to mention also the earth,you know, had to have evolved
right along with them for thereto be vegetation because it we
still have to breathe, right?
So there has to be plants andvegetation that gives oxygen.
Right.
So you're you're also sayingthat is just you know, evolution
(07:02):
saying that's just acoincidence, you know.
It just I don't believe that anylogical thinker can honestly not
think that there's intelligentdesign.
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
It there's just in us speaking on it, and then
obviously preparing to speakabout it today, reading a little
bit more on what some of bothsides say, because to be fair,
there's highly intelligentpeople that's way above what my
realm of thinking could be thathas based their lives to argue
(07:41):
their point, and they have aright to argue their point, but
I think a lot comes from justarrogance as human beings that
you just that that is part ofwhat we've evolved to to think
that our mind can have theunderstanding of existence and
(08:03):
say definitively that it camefrom this or that.
You know, you are a veryintelligent person, but the
world is a very complex thing.
So to to give yourself so muchcredit to say, hey, I you know,
this is what it is, and you'redumb if you think otherwise, and
for the other side to say, well,this is what it is, because
(08:25):
obviously there's you knowthere's faith required on both
sides, right?
You you have to you have tounderstand and to say that you
completely understand one andcompletely say the other is
bogus when there's intelligentpeople on both sides speaking
their points, and when you andI've never done it until
(08:45):
recently, you know, we spokeabout it months ago, and then
when we was like, hey, what whatcan we do for an episode?
And he was like, How aboutevolution versus creation?
Okay, well, let me try to get mymind wrapped a little bit around
what people are saying on bothsides, and it's interesting,
it's a it's a fun topic to getinto and learn about.
(09:10):
So if anybody out there feelsthat they know everything about
the one thing, then start tryingto learn everything about the
other thing, and then find a wayto understand that there's
arguments that could supportboth, but then like you just
said, faith comes into play onwhichever side you choose to be
(09:32):
on, and then ask yourself whyare you choosing to shut your
mind to the other side?
So because there's science andthere's religion.
And if you're if you have anyfaith in your in your body or
your or your soul at all, allowit to absorb everything.
Because I think in our world,more so than just this topic,
(09:54):
closing our minds to what otherpeople's beliefs are is very
damaging and very hurtful to usas a society of getting along
with each other.
So it's been really cool to tokind of read and learn something
that I never really put muchthought into.
SPEAKER_02 (10:12):
Yeah, it I love it.
It's like you said, veryfascinating.
And you know, you you have thevery intelligent scientific
community, and and that's great,and I think it's I like to use
science to to help provecreation, in my opinion.
(10:33):
And um, there's something calledPascal's Wager.
Have you ever heard of that?
I haven't.
It's it's really cool.
Um, it was presented by BlaisePascal.
He's he's a uh a well well-knownscientist um from the 1600s.
(10:54):
And so I'm just gonna read whatwhat Pascal's wager is.
It uh it says Pascal contendsthat a rational person should
adopt a lifestyle consistentwith the existence of God and
should strive to believe in God.
The reasoning for this stanceinvolves the potential outcomes.
(11:17):
If God does not exist, thebeliever incurs only finite
losses, potentially sacrificingcertain pleasures and luxuries.
If God does exist, the believerstands to gain immeasurable as
re immeasurable as represented,for example, by an eternity in
(11:37):
heaven.
So to put it in you know moreunderstanding terms, I guess,
you know, it makes more sense tobelieve in God because you stand
to gain eternity with in heavenwith God, versus if you choose
(12:01):
to not believe in God and liveas your own God, basically, you
could end up in hell.
So it just logically makes froma scientific logical standpoint,
it makes more sense to believein God.
That's basically what he'ssaying.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
And you know, when I've I've heard that before, I
guess I just didn't know whatthe name of it was, yeah.
And hearing that, and if you ifyou broke it down to a a
standard level of the things inlife that we have, it's it's
kind of like, you know, not tobe so like against the grain,
(12:44):
but like if you had a hundreddollars standing in front of you
on a table, and someone said,You can walk through this door,
there's gonna be$75 to a milliondollars.
Your lowest gain is gonna be$75,your biggest gain is gonna be a
(13:08):
million dollars.
You can walk through that door,or you can pick up his hundred
dollar bill and just walk away.
Why wouldn't you walk throughthe door?
Yeah, because maybe you lose$25,or maybe you gain a million,
yeah, minus a hundred.
You know, like it's not thathard of a choice when it's
(13:28):
things that you really want, butfaith is about trusting in
things that you don't know thatyou need until you start
following and feel what it doesto your heart.
You know, it's it's been such anamazing thing to to put that
faith there and to pray and tofeel, you know, we spoke, and
(13:55):
I'm just gonna go there, butjust because last night I went
to the Passion of the Christ.
It was a play put on by a localchurch up in the community my
brother's from.
And I've never seen the moviePassion of the Christ.
I've obviously read the Biblethat it was based off of, but to
get that visual interpretationof what I've read was so
(14:16):
powerful.
Yeah.
And when the pastor came outwhen it was over and he spoke,
and he said, You know, if youallow the Holy Spirit into your
heart, there's there's you willfeel, and he was speaking, and
it's just so true.
And all I sat there and thoughtafter watching this amazing
production by these local, thislocal church, it was
(14:40):
unbelievably good.
And we spoke.
We'll we'll definitely go back.
It's an annual thing.
It it's they do such a greatjob.
But it was uh it's just when Ihear him say that, it's like,
man, he's talking to thisauditorium that has, you know,
maybe 200 people, 300 people.
(15:00):
I don't I don't know.
It's it was big, it wasn't huge.
I mean, probably a couplehundred at least, and he's
telling them like you know, andI don't I'm sure there was a
people that sat in there to seethe production that didn't
understand what he's saying.
I know I know there was a lot ofpeople in there that did.
And uh, if I went a few yearsago, I might not have understood
(15:21):
what he was saying.
But when you open that up, itit's worth the faith.
It's worth saying, okay, youknow, this if you believe in one
miraculous thing, then you haveto believe in any miraculous
thing.
SPEAKER_02 (15:39):
And absolutely, and and atheists choose to believe
in science, right?
But I would say scientism orpseudoscience, a lot of it.
But you know, Wesley Huff sayshe said this, he said, you know,
they'll deny the the virginbirth, but believe in the virgin
(16:00):
birth of the universe.
You believe that a finite thingthe size of the head of a pen
exploded into what created theentire universe.
And even even the explosion hadto have been a perfect explosion
(16:21):
that would allow matter tocoalesce into planets.
Because if you think of anexplosion, right, it it's gonna
go out away from itself and it'snever gonna collide.
So the explosion would have hadto have been like a a weird type
of explosion to where thingswere allowed to collide and and
(16:42):
coalesced into planets andstuff.
So even that is I mean, youbelieve in a miracle, and you
have to have faith no matterwhat, if you believe in
evolution.
But there was a thought that Ihad um that I think is
(17:03):
interesting and it's it's reallysimple.
It's the fact that everybody onearth is faced with this
question where did we come from?
And is there a God?
(17:26):
I think the fact that we're allfaced with that is proof that
there is a God.
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
I mean, I'm I'm following I mean I know I think
I know what you're you'resaying.
Like you you would have to tohave to wonder and not have a
definitive answer kind of speaksfor itself, you know.
(17:58):
It's like, well, nothing reallymakes sense about where we came
from or how we exist.
I mean, at my level of ablue-collar worker that's never,
you know, put my life'sdedication into to being uh a
scholar in either form thatwe're speaking of.
(18:20):
But yeah, the fact that it's aquestion and not an answer says
that either side is right therefor the taking.
It's just what you choose tohave faith in.
Do you choose to have faith inscience?
Do you choose to have faith in ahigher power?
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
And well, I feel like evolution is all about
efficiency, right?
We've evolved, uh there's beenmistakes over millions or
billions of years.
Is it efficient to to have thisthought that we all have?
(18:59):
I mean So I I've got a quotehere from C.S.
Lewis, it's very interesting.
Um C.S.
Lewis is just a brilliant man.
He um, you know, obviously wrotethe Narnia books and stuff.
(19:20):
Um, but he said, if there's nointelligence behind the
universe, no one designed mybrain for the purpose of
thinking.
It is merely that when the atomsinside my skull happen for
physical or chemical reasons toarrange themselves in a certain
way, this gives me as abyproduct the sensation I call
(19:43):
thought.
It's like upsetting a milk jugand hoping that the way it
splashes itself will give you amap of London.
It's like an atheist can't evenif they believe in evolution,
they can't even trust their ownthoughts, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah.
That was it, that was anotherthing that I had seen.
I like I said, I don't want tomake myself sound too
intelligent on uh what I read,you know, because I I guess in
our technological world, it'seasy to get the opinions in
video format of what it is.
But anyway, yeah, I seen that.
It's like if everything is justscience, then you know,
(20:29):
feelings, you know, thoughts,nothing is nothing is exact.
It's all just happened.
It's all maybe, maybe you'llthink this at this point.
Well, when I'm watching a movie,and in my mind, maybe sometimes
you know, a little ADHD jumpsout there, and and my mind does
(20:52):
go nut.
But most of the time when you'rewanting to consciously think of
something, you consciously thinkof it.
It's not just happens to say,well, it it's just so infinite,
man.
And and the things, and I wishthat I had a a quicker uh way of
(21:12):
saying what I but it wasclicking as I was listening and
as I was some reading, just notas much as listening, but some
reading, you know, it it just itall makes sense to say it's just
as likely to have faith in thisas the people that choose to not
(21:33):
have faith in Christ and God andthe Holy Spirit.
It's you can you can argue yourpoints.
I mean, we're in a society nowwhere there's highly intelligent
people that argue men are women,and I don't want to go there,
but I'm just anyone can soundintelligent with their argument
if you're intelligent enough tobe able to put the words
(21:57):
together.
It's all brain games.
You know, because there'sintelligent people that listen
to these Harvard graduates thatare saying, Yeah, you know, well
it's just how you it's like butwhen you get down and you you
swipe away all the fancy wordingand the way that it's spoken and
you just listen to what theirargument is, then you can say,
Well, that's crazy.
(22:18):
Or or you know, I I mean, Idon't want to be insulting to
anyone, but I mean that's justnonsense.
You're saying it veryintelligently.
Right.
And if if you just if you leftall the the stuff caked around
it, you could say, Man, that's agood point.
But when you say, Well,biologically, that's impossible,
you know, and and it's likeanyone can say anything
(22:39):
intelligently.
Yeah.
And these two things, I thinkthere are a lot of intelligence
spoken on both sides, from whatI've read.
And I give credit to the peoplethat have that brain power to
dig in deep and deep and and andtry to support their beliefs.
(23:00):
But why why discard the other asif it's trash?
Why discard the other as if it'san impossibility, as if your
reasoning is more possible?
Because on the other side,there's people digging and
finding ways to prove that to anextent what their beliefs are is
(23:20):
real.
So if we if you just existedwith the facts that there are
that science does help our worldevolve as a society, but as a
being, humans, evolution really,and what I've read preparing for
for this, it it's it's very,very much harder to believe that
(23:45):
evolved over a billion yearsthan it is to believe that
creation.
There's a lot of amazing thingson both sides, but I don't I
don't know.
Like I said, it's but what youknow I couldn't sit in a room
with some with a scientist, witha doctorate, and argue with
them.
But there's people, there'sthere's doctorates sitting in
(24:07):
rooms convincing people ofnonsense things in our world
right now that would have ananswer, and then I would just
get tongue-tied and I would justhave to say, all right, man.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Well, yeah, but really it comes down to God has
proven himself to you because ofhow you feel, right?
Inside.
Right.
And nobody can take that awayfrom you, no matter how
intelligent they are, and howfancy of the words they use to
(24:39):
try to get you to not believe inGod.
And um, you know, some of themost brilliant minds to ever
live.
Einstein was a Christian, IsaacNewton was a Christian.
Um a current brilliant mind isuh Dr.
(25:03):
Michael Gillen.
He has an amazing podcast calledScience Plus God.
I've listened to a lot of hisstuff.
That'd be cool to get him on oneday if we could.
But um he talks about you know,people will say, Well, I don't
believe in anything that I can'tsee or can't be scientifically
(25:30):
proven.
And it's like, really?
You're breathing, aren't you?
Can you can you see the air thatyou're breathing?
But you believe it's there,right?
And also even deeper, like darkmatter makes up 90% of our
universe, they say.
(25:50):
But it's never been detected,never been discovered.
It's just there to make the mathwork.
And then also there's you know,people like you said, much
smarter than you or I arescientists about this, but you
know, I've done a fair amount ofresearch on it, and it's
(26:11):
interesting how planets if itwas a big bang that created the
universe there's a a prettyprominent school of thought that
says everything would have torotate in the same direction.
(26:32):
All the planets.
They would all have to rotate inthe same direction, but we don't
see that.
And it's just more proof to meof a divine creator, and yes, it
cre it it requires faith.
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
But what about our existence doesn't?
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
No matter how you feel.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Yeah, and I believe that comes back down to Pascal's
wager.
You know, if you have all thesequestions, logically, why not
just believe in God and go downthat path because you know that
there's people that have set outto disprove the existence of
(27:17):
Jesus and then then they becomeChristians.
SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
That's the problem with it is that you are just
completely and that's when I didthe research, you know, to to
try to prepare myself a littlebit for the conversation that I
kind of read both sides.
Like, why?
If you are so intelligent andyou have the ability to dig so
(27:43):
deep because your brain isstrong enough and you are an
intelligent human being, andyou're able to have dug so far
into this side of it to agree,and I don't I don't care.
I don't believe that the peoplethat speak atheists and and
(28:04):
totally, like you said, thebrilliant minds that were
Christians as well.
That's probably because theytook their brain power and
learned about both and andlearned to believe and accept
that both are very prevalent inour society and would be
beneficial in our society.
Science and religion is a greatcomponent to help us evolve as
(28:31):
society, but understanding whatwe are as humans and the
feelings that we have, and youknow, the anger and and just
happiness.
That's all stuff that'sindividually us.
There's no way that we evolve,but yet our brains work so
different, and that's what makesthe world beautiful is that
(28:53):
there's so many different typesof beings, personalities,
physical beings.
You know, you got the big,crazy, tough guy, you got the
little guy, you got the mediumguy, you got the fat guy and the
skinny guy, and we're all ourown people and we have our own
thoughts.
That's that's a brilliant thing.
The the idea that you could beso smart to dig so deep into
(29:17):
science, but refuse to evenattempt to dig halfway through
Christianity or religion andjust and just throw it aside
like it's nonsense.
Like, why not you were clearlyblessed with a very powerful
brain, and you're using it tospeak out against who created
(29:39):
you.
unknown (29:39):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Like you have a special gift, and you and you're
you're not giving credit whereit's due by not even attempting
to to feel that, you know, or ordig into it and learn it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
And and I I I like to get to the root, and I I love
the the human brain and how wecan just justify and convince
ourselves.
You know, it seems like umatheists just don't like the way
(30:17):
religion or God is presented tothem, you know.
When it comes down to it, youknow, especially let's focus on
the Bible, you know, the way Godintends us to live, it goes
against what you what a normalhuman or flesh wants to do.
(30:39):
And that's how I th I know thatit is God's word, because if it
was written by humans, I mean itwas written by humans but
inspired by God, it wouldn'tconflict with what our flesh
desires, you know.
That cube's not on, dude.
Oh man.
Squirrel.
(31:00):
Yeah.
A D D.
SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Let me just let me let me solvethat for you.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Yeah, man.
Thank you.
But yeah, at the end of the day,I I believe you just deny God
because you don't like how He'sbeen presented to you.
You know, I know people aregonna say, no, no, that's not
right, but yeah, that's what Ibelieve, and that's I think in
(31:28):
your heart of hearts, deep downthat's what atheists think.
SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
Well, you know, and I I don't I don't disagree with
with that thought.
You know, would wouldChristianity be a lot more
supported and a lot more if itmeant that you could do
everything that your brain thatthat you know there's a there's
(32:01):
a lot of things uh but I foundand we spoke about it before it
started, I found that you knowwalking through life with Jesus
in my heart has been way easierthan walking through life with
drugs in my blood, you know.
You can say there there's funthings about partying and and
(32:25):
going out and drinking and youknow, but there's my Friday
night consisted of me and mywife meeting up with my brother
and his family and going into achurch and watching a play put
on it about what Jesus did foryou and everything.
(32:46):
Oh my goodness.
It was it was just a greatnight, man.
And one of the one of thecoolest things, you know, I love
to go to baseball games.
I'm a big baseball fan, I'm abig football fan.
I I love the things I there'snothing in this world that you
can do as a Christian and tryingto follow, you know, I don't I
(33:08):
don't have a perfect language.
I mean, I swear, and I've I'veworked on it, and we spoke about
it before, you know, it's like,man, it's a little bit tougher
than I thought just to live.
You know, I it it's just who Iam as a person and things that,
you know, if you have thingsthat you're working on to become
a better person and a personthat can relate and have a sh
(33:33):
and be a shoulder for anybodythat wants to talk to you,
whether it be someone that'snever walked a day in the shoes
that you've walked, or whetherit be someone that's in a dark
hole walking, why would you whywould you close your heart to
that?
Why would you say just stop withthat?
(33:55):
That's not it's just as possibleas anything that science can do,
because no science, no drug, nodrink, no food that I've ever
put in my body has lifted theweight off of my feet the way
letting Jesus into my heart has.
And that's honestly speaking,that that has been something
(34:19):
that I've noticed as beingsomeone that was older and
becoming a father for the firsttime, scared to death of my
energy.
How am I gonna keep up with akid?
You know?
Yeah.
And it was something that Istruggled with.
And, you know, finding thatlightness and that understanding
(34:42):
has just been it's beeneverything to to the way that I
live my day-to-day life.
I still say things that Iprobably shouldn't say just in
for the sake of humor or s orsomething, you know.
I try not to ever disrespectanother human.
I try not to be, you know, butthe reality is, is I should work
(35:04):
on that, but I am, and I'llcontinue to, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (35:09):
And that's and that's that's what Jesus does,
man.
He creates He makes you a newcreation, He works inside of you
on your heart and changes you.
And to get scientific on this,isn't this amazing?
Uh laminin is a protein thatliterally holds all of our atoms
(35:38):
together.
It's like the glue of our bodyto you know, for lack of a
better explanation.
But get this the laminin proteinis in the shape of a cross.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
Yeah.
I mean there there's a there's aprime example of science and
religion.
What became it's I just believein my heart that there's
obviously science is a huge partof our society.
(36:17):
Obviously, Western medicine hasdone in prolonged lives to a
great extent.
And I respect every personthat's in a lab working to try
to keep learning new thingsabout our world that we can use
with what we have here.
(36:37):
I think it's brilliant.
I think it's great.
I think it's way above my mentalcapacity to understand what
these people are doing.
And but like you said, you know,the the Christianity and
understanding what Christ didand understanding that those
things happened at those timesfor us as humanity.
(37:02):
And, you know, the creation thatgave free will is something that
I think people just they'reusing.
What it you just have to be, andI don't mean disrespect, but
it's it's it's closed-minded tojust there's lots of questions.
(37:23):
I have as a Christian, I havelots of questions.
As I'm reading through the Biblefor the first time, from front
to back, it's left me with alot, we've discussed it, you
know.
It's not wrong as a Christian,it's it's not bad to to question
the things that you're readingas a Christian.
(37:44):
As is it bad if you readsomething in science that you
don't understand and you have toread further and read.
I mean, that's what we do ashumans to get an understanding
of what's what.
So why I would never throw ascientist into a garbage can and
think any of the science is anyif you've done science your
(38:06):
whole life and you've onlycontributed to our society with
one of the things that you'velearned, then you've contributed
to our society, and that's worthuplifting and that's worth being
proud of.
So I don't think that scientistsshould just throw religion or
Christianity, you know, creationinto the garbage can because I
(38:31):
don't think any human being, nomatter how intelligent you are,
can understand what creation is,how it was technically done.
I I just don't think that ahuman brain is capable of
understanding that.
And there's a lot of things thatmy human brain isn't capable of
understanding, and I wouldn'tever be so arrogant to say
(38:54):
because I don't understand it,it can't be.
SPEAKER_02 (38:57):
And and the Bible talks about that in Isaiah
chapter 55, verses 8 and 9, itsays, For my thoughts are not
your thoughts, neither are yourways my ways, declares the Lord.
As the heavens are higher thanthe earth, so are my ways higher
than your ways, and my thoughtsthan your thoughts.
(39:19):
You know, we're created in theimage of God.
We we are not God, we're farfrom it.
There's no way we're ever gonnaunderstand everything about
creation, you know, the creatorof the heavens and the earth,
(39:41):
the most intelligent being, forthe lack of a proper word for
God, entity, whatever you wantto call him, we we can never
completely understand that.
And that's you know, again, youwant to put your faith in a
(40:02):
human, what science tells you,because science is in the
business of disproving science.
I'll tell you that.
How many times do you havesomething said, and then 10
years later science is like, oh,we discovered that that's not
true.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
It's happening over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Yeah, so you put your faith in something that is
constantly wrong sometimes, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
Or dare you say, evolving, you know.
It's it's you that's what Imean.
At the time that those thingswere spoken of, you know, you're
supposed to drink as much milkand all the milk that you can
drink, it's gonna strengthenyour body, it's gonna do all.
And now when when my kid wasborn, they're like, You gotta
(40:56):
monitor only do so much milk.
Yeah.
Because it it can cause uh uh,you know, it's like what?
When I was a kid, all my momwanted to do was give me glasses
of milk to drink because thatwas you know, so but the people
of the time that came up withthat, published that and put
(41:16):
that out for us as a society toto use as a as a learning tool
were the top brains of theirtime.
Well, it's changed, it's everchanging, and the brain
continues to grow.
So, how can you be so certain ofsomething and so dismissive of
something else?
Because the reality is, and likeyou said earlier, the fact that
(41:40):
there's that question mark afterwhere'd we come from, not this
is where we came from.
Yeah, that means that there's nocertainties in one or the other.
But faith is the is thedifference.
Faith can go out and out.
It don't have to, you don't haveto take your faith and put it
(42:02):
all in science, and you don'thave to take your faith and put
it all in Christianity.
You can just have faith in whatour world is, and our world is
science, and our world isreligion.
And to I I just sound like a brI know I keep saying it, you
know, but it it's just it justdoesn't make sense to put I mean
(42:28):
it's almost bear with me, uhlike I don't I don't know, you
know, it's almost like racism,you know?
Like, why do you why are therepeople in this world that hate
somebody because of who theyare?
That makes no sense to me.
SPEAKER_02 (42:43):
It's indoctrination, it's learned.
SPEAKER_01 (42:45):
And and I on a on a different level, you know, to to
love science and hate religion.
It doesn't have anything to dowith race, but it's still
displaced hatred for no realapparent reason.
Why, why would you be why wouldyou dedicate your life to
(43:05):
dogging religion?
Why why would that be yourlife's mission to try to turn
people away from somethingthat's so beautiful?
That to me is that's hatredthat's doing that.
There's in the world doesn'tneed hate.
SPEAKER_02 (43:18):
Yeah, I've seen some atheists that are like that, you
know.
And it's it's yeah, it'smind-blowing.
SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
And and what I've watched, you know, it's so
mind-blowing is the arrogancethat almost drips off these
people as they're speaking.
Well, this guy says this.
Oh my goodness, this isunbelievable.
Like, really?
Who are you?
Yeah, who are you to say that?
Yeah, you know, you're talkingabout someone that has just as
much education as you and whatthey chose to learn about.
SPEAKER_02 (43:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (43:50):
You know, there's a lot of things that we read on
both sides that just seemunbelievable.
Faith is the is the divider,you're you know, it is chosen.
Put your faith in the world, ineverything that comes with it.
Creation came with our world.
We were created.
(44:11):
Evolution is a theory.
The Big Bang is a theory.
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
And theories are not anything that you can hang your
hat on and say definitively with100% with 100% certainty.
I can't say that we were createdby God with 100% certainty.
Obviously.
I can't say we evolved.
SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Well you can, but you can't prove it with a
hundred percent of the city.
SPEAKER_01 (44:39):
I mean, I'm choosing to put my faith in creation
because I felt I can say onehundred percent that God exists.
SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
Jesus is, you know, Jesus came down.
I I can say that with a hundredpercent and certainty because
that's what I know in my heartand my mind.
SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
And that's what you believe.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
But I cannot prove it to somebody else.
SPEAKER_01 (45:01):
No.
As can evolution not be provenby anybody.
So it all comes back to faith.
What are you putting your faithin?
And if you're choosing to putyour faith in this, then then
that's your free will.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
You're allowed to, but the people that are making
their lives work to try to turnpeople away from Christ is just
so absurd.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
And and you know, you know, I believe 100% that
the devil uses science todistract people from Jesus.
And I think it's interesting umyou know, there's only one
example I can think of, butthere's there's several where,
(45:53):
you know, the the Bible saysthat 666 is, you know, the mark
of the beast.
Mark of the Beast, the devil'snumber.
And that calling card is leftall over our society, and people
don't want to believe it or oror even recognize it, but the
(46:17):
tilt of the earth we're told istwenty-three point four degrees.
And you know how degrees work,right?
You know, we have ninety ninetydegree angles and three hundred
and sixty degrees full circle.
Um you take ninety degrees minustwenty-three point four, you get
(46:37):
sixty-six point six degrees.
Um I think that's reallyinteresting.
You know, I'm sure you knowpeople would say, no, that's
just it's just coincidence, it'smath, that's science.
I think Satan leaves his callingcard on a lot of things.
(46:58):
Um and I just think that's crazyto me.
And there's you know, the Biblekind of preaches this geocentric
universe, and that's geocentricmeans the earth is the center of
the universe, and everythingrevolves around the earth.
(47:19):
That's the basic premise of whata geocentric universe is, and
that's what was preached for youknow hundreds of years, and then
Copernicus came about and and hequote unquote discovered the
heliocentric model, which iseverything revolves around our
(47:42):
sun.
And I think that was you know,that was Satan trying to create
a a system that's against theBible.
Um so I just I think that that'sinteresting.
(48:04):
And um you know, people want tobelieve in evolution and like we
talked about male and femaleevolving at the same time, and
just also vegetation having toevolve at the same time for
procreation and you knowsustenance to live and breathe.
(48:27):
Um and not to mention I I wantto talk about the human eye real
quick, and how the human eye isinsanely complex.
I I wish I could remember thename of this scientist, but the
human eye he studied, and that'swhat made him believe in God, is
because um if any one thing, anymolecule or atom is off, your
(48:54):
eyes won't work.
Um but so the electromagneticspectrum, that is what we
consider visible light.
The human eye, and this iscrazy, is as complex as the
human eye is, we can only seepoint zero zero thive percent of
(49:15):
of the electromagnetic spectrumof what is visible light.
So that's closer to nothing thananything.
Yeah, I mean almost a hundredpercent of what visible light is
the electromagnetic spectrum, wecan't even see it.
(49:36):
So i if you don't think I meanto me that's evidence of a a
spiritual realm that can be allaround us that we just can't
see, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Yeah, yeah.
That I I that was something thatI can't the human eye was
something that said virtuallyimpossible to have evolved.
Yeah.
There's there's there's not itlike the there there's things
(50:12):
that and the human eye stuck outto me because it was
interesting, and and I rememberreading the the guy's name that
said it, but I can't it's not infront of me and I can't I can't
remember it, but I read the samething that you're speaking of.
It it's virtually impossible,basically, is what it broke down
as is to to be able to haveevolved into what it is and and
(50:33):
what its capabilities are, whichin the overall spectrum, no pun
intended, isn't isn't much, youknow.
Like it when you think whatyou're looking at, like if you
was looking at point what whatwhat was that number you gave?
SPEAKER_02 (50:49):
Point zero zero three five percent.
SPEAKER_01 (50:53):
Of a puzzle, you would have absolutely no idea
what that puzzle not even a halfof a percent was gonna be.
I mean, you wouldn't youprobably wouldn't even be able
to determine the color of theone piece, the point zero zero
three percent.
So when you think of it likethat, if you're looking at at a
(51:16):
a picture that you can only seethat much of, you would have
absolutely no idea what you waslooking at.
Right.
So do we even know what we'relooking at?
SPEAKER_02 (51:27):
Yeah, yeah.
100 closer to 100% of what we'relooking at.
SPEAKER_01 (51:32):
That's a pretty that's a pretty staggering.
I didn't see that number aboutthe human eye, and I haven't
heard that before.
Maybe uh other people have,maybe I'm really behind the
eight ball on that, but that'sthat's wild.
That's a that's a crazy numberto say that I'm staring into
space right now and I'm seeingthe walls and I'm seeing the
pictures and I'm seeingeverything that's in front of
(51:53):
me, and I think I'm seeingeverything.
My eyes are getting bad, but Iyou know, I don't think they're
0.033 bad, you know.
So there's a lot of gazillionthings right in front of my face
that my eyes just can't detect.
That's that's that's that'swild.
I know you know it's it's beenuh it's such a cool
(52:13):
conversation, and I guess Iwould just like tell people, and
there's gonna be them top-tierguys that could ever hear
someone, you know, just aregular Joe sitting in front of
a microphone talking to say, butI mean, just for for the other
(52:34):
average Joes out there, if youhave any questions, you know,
just just it's we have the worldat our fingertips at this point,
you know.
We have opinions from top mindsof both sides.
We got artificial intelligencethat can that can give you
arguments right in front of yourface in real time, and you can
(52:55):
spend today reading about thisand tomorrow reading about that,
and and just choose.
Why why close your mind to theinfinite possibilities of what
our world is and where we camefrom?
Because it's not we came from,it's where did we come from?
Yeah, that's that's questionmark means everything, and that
(53:16):
means no one should be soarrogant to close their mind to
the to any other possibility,and that's whether you're a
Christian or you're whetheryou're an atheist.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
Grow your grow your understanding of the world, and
if you have and you choose thatway, then live that way.
Don't make it your life's workto pull other people that may
not be as intelligent as youwith your intelligent words away
from Christ, you know.
Yeah.
To to to actually make yourlife's mission to turn people
(53:49):
away from Christ is the mostunuseful, unneeded act in this
world.
Right there with murder, rape,and any other, you know, that
anybody, any human with any soulcan can understand as isn't
right.
To try to actively turn peopleaway from Christ is something
that no human that shouldn't beyour mission in life, because
(54:12):
there's no need for it.
Christianity and opening yourand letting Christ live in your
heart is not detrimental toanybody in any way whatsoever.
SPEAKER_02 (54:25):
Absolutely, amen.
And it I it really comes down tothis.
The Bible tells us in Ephesians6, verse 12, for we wrestle not
against flesh and blood, butagainst principalities, against
powers, against the rulers ofthe darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness,wickedness in high places.
(54:49):
At the end of the day, we're inspiritual warfare, whether you
want to acknowledge it or not,and I just proved to you through
science that there's a wholeworld that you can't see.
You can only see 0.0035%.
(55:10):
100% closer to 100% you can'tsee.
I just think that's amazing.
Like you you can't logically saythere's not a spiritual a
possible a possibility of aspiritual world all around you
just based on science, you know?
(55:33):
And I just I love thatstatistic, or if you want to
call it that.
Um and when you you get any evendeeper into researching
evolution, you know, they theysay, well, you know, uh you
(55:56):
know, carbon dating says that uhthis rock is thirteen million
years old.
Well there's been tests doneusing carbon dating that prove
that it's not reliable.
So you know you can choose tobelieve in carbon dating, but I
(56:19):
can find scientific experimentsthat disprove its its
credibility.
SPEAKER_01 (56:24):
So that you know, and I think we're getting close,
I think, to to just getting ourconclusion and and wrapping up,
but just that alone, like Ithink it's and and how does that
form, you know, we get anequation, we say, okay, we know
that this thing is a hundredyears old.
(56:46):
So if we take what we see andjust put it into this equation
with the difference between thisrock and that rock, then it
should accurately date.
This is all way above myunderstanding.
And I believe that there it youcan probably get a range of
accuracy, but when you'retalking millions of years, yeah,
(57:10):
there's no way.
There's I you you might be ableto have a small understanding,
but nothing is absolute.
SPEAKER_02 (57:19):
100%.
And I I just as we wrap up, Ijust have a few more things to
talk about.
Um, so a lot of the times thatevolution uses is based off of
what's called the geologiccolumn.
And the geologic column isbasically just levels of
(57:44):
geology, right?
That you know, it took millionsof years to create this level,
millions of this level, thislevel, this level.
And I think it's hilarious to meactually, because I didn't get a
bunch of time to research this,but I'm pretty sure that the
geologic column was just made upso they could use it to to
(58:09):
create times and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (58:11):
To date certain events in history, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (58:14):
But there's been several discoveries of trees
that are right through all thesedifferent levels of you know
geology that they claim to bemillions of years.
How's there a fossilized treegoing through it all?
(58:34):
You know what I mean?
Right.
And and it actually proves theGreat Flood.
You know, all that happenedrather quickly after the the
Great Flood talked about in theBible.
That is more easily explainedthan the geologic column in
millions of years, it makes moresense when you find trees that
(58:58):
are through all these differentlevels.
And another point is we we'reborn into this, I'm gonna say
magical world or spiritualworld, and we don't realize how
(59:18):
amazing it is because we justgrow up in it, right?
Like gravity.
You know, scientists can sitthere and try to explain we we
see attributes of gravity, butit we don't know exactly what
gravity is.
Like that to me is evidence of adivine creator.
(59:43):
I mean, you're telling me thatquintillions of tons of water
can be held to a spinning ball,and I can fill up a helium
balloon and or a butterfly canfly right over top of the ocean.
(01:00:06):
There's a force that's holdingall that water to a spinning
ball, but a butterfly can justfly right over, you know, and
I'm sure there's scientists outthere that would explain it
away, but you know, we we'reborn into this world where we
(01:00:26):
breathe something we can't evensee.
And it's we just I'm in awe ofGod's creation and just
everything as we should be.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:42):
Yeah, we I mean the the reality everyone says uh the
the human brain, you know, whatour bodies are capable of at the
lowest form of human I mean towatch our children grow up and
watch them learn from theseslobbering goo goo guy guys into
(01:01:08):
learning one word and anotherword.
The I mean life is beautiful,and I think we lose sight of
that more than we should, andI'm just as guilty as anybody of
it, you know.
But as I've gotten older, I justfeel like if we all just took a
(01:01:32):
step back and understoodourselves and our own
insecurities and understand thatevery person around us, if you
see someone afflicted, someonethat doesn't look normal to you,
to understand that's just that'stheir that's their life, and
they deserve to be loved as muchas the most beautiful person in
(01:01:53):
the world deserves to be loved.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, life isbeautiful.
The fact that we're walking onthis rock and we're breathing
what God's given us and we'relearning, never stop your
learning.
When you close your mind, yourlearning stops.
Yeah.
And I think a human should belearning and choosing to try to
(01:02:15):
learn until their last breath,until they get to move on into
and into the infinite life.
Amen.
You know, this this world is isa beautiful thing to be on and
to experience, but it's just astopping point for something way
bigger.
(01:02:36):
And if you have faith in that,then walking and being kind is
so much easier.
We're not perfect, we get angry,we lash out.
Always always check yourself onthat, I think.
Yeah, because I had I had to,because I I wasn't always this
way.
I I always joke, I've gotten alot softer and a lot more
(01:02:58):
emotional the older I've gotten,you know.
But it's a beautiful thing.
The age with age comes new uh Idon't know what I'm it you learn
as you go, and if you ever stoplearning, then you stop.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03:17):
With age comes wisdom, is it wisdom, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03:19):
There you go.
That's a that's an that's a oldone, oldie but goody, you know.
Yeah, maybe that is it, youknow.
It's like you you learn and youtry to pass it on to your
children, and it's veryfrustrating to say, man, they
think you're just some old guyjust spouting because you want
to keep them from having fun.
Yeah.
The humans should constantlylearn.
Like children have to learn toget to a certain point to where
(01:03:42):
they can have conversations andthey can tell you that they're
hungry, and they can tell youthat they're sleepy, and they
can tell you this.
You know, us even as adulthumans, we should be learning to
our last breath, and then we'llbe ready to embrace what the
next step is to come becauseit'll probably be a whole other
infinite time of learning.
(01:04:06):
It's just it's so it's so niceto have faith.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
Amen, brother, amen.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:15):
People people should should really just love one
another, and I'm not trying tolove peace and chicken grease,
but truly the world would existin a lot calmer state if
everyone could learn that we'reall beings that were created by
God, that were put here to getto experience something
(01:04:38):
beautiful that is really justalways taken for granted.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:45):
Amen.
And like I keep telling you,man, it's so encouraging to see
what God's doing in your life,to see and how he's enlightening
you through his word, and youknow, as we wrap up, you know, I
I like I'm I'm liking to closeand and an opportunity for
(01:05:08):
people to accept Christ.
And um you know, one of myfavorite verses, Romans 10 9, if
you confess with your mouth thatJesus is Lord and you believe in
your heart that God raised himfrom the dead, you will be
saved.
And John 3 16, for God so lovedthe world he gave his only
(01:05:30):
begotten son, that whosoeverbelieves in him shall not
perish, but have everlastinglife.
So I implore you, I I pray thatyou the listener, if it's even
just one person, you know, ifthis has touched you in any way,
(01:05:52):
I'm talking to you, just confessthat Jesus is Lord and just pray
and say, Lord, I don't have allthe answers, I don't understand
it all, but I want to give mylife to you, and I want you to
be in my heart.
And if you truly mean that whenyou say it and you seek him with
your whole heart, you're gonnabe changed.
(01:06:15):
And I I just pray that you do.
And uh did you have anythingelse?
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:25):
And I I knew when we started that it was gonna be
fun, and it has been.
Absolutely, and like I said,there's a lot smarter people
than me in the world, and I hopesome of them watch this and
maybe say, hey, you know, thisguy.
Maybe I ought to dig a littledeeper.
Maybe they won't.
But I had fun talking to youabout it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06:44):
Me too, man.
And then you know, the Biblesays don't throw your pearls
among swine or something likethat.
You know, there's gonna bepeople that are gonna be haters,
and you know, we've talked aboutthat, we're prepared for that.
But we keep our faith in theAlmighty, right?
Amen.
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:04):
Later y'all.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
Peace.
Have a good one.
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