January 23, 2025 • 28 mins
Are you looking for a Third Growth Option ℠ ?
This episode highlights the vital role of branding in attracting and retaining top talent in today's job market. Colleen Pfaller discusses insights from an employee value perception study, emphasizing the importance of authentic employer branding and cultural contribution.
• Understanding the evolving role of HR in attracting talent
• Insights from the employee value perception study
• Employees prioritize brands they identify with
• The importance of authentic branding over superficial perceptions
• Culture as a dynamic aspect needing nurturing and growth
• Emphasizing cultural contribution rather than mere fit
• The challenge of building a unique brand in a competitive market
• Strategies for aligning employer branding with company values
• Cultivating an authentic and engaging workplace environment
• Encouragement to rethink branding strategies for better retention
Always growing.
Benno Duenkelsbuehler
CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hello, I'm Colleen Fowler.
I'm the principal of HRconsulting in Cincinnati Ohio at
One Digital.
Of HR Consulting in CincinnatiOhio at One Digital.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hey, colleen, I am so glad to have you on this
podcast.
My name is Benno, host of ThirdGrowth Option Podcast, and
welcome, and Colleen.
So you and I are both Vistagemembers we're in the same
Vistage group so I've gotten toknow you over the years and you
are what I would call anatypical HR professional,
(01:08):
because I've never met an HRprofessional who is also an
entrepreneur, started up her ownbusiness and sold it, exited it
.
You know these are the coolwords that the startup community
uses and private equity.
You know you did a startup, youdid an exit.
So you are, in my mind, muchmore than an HR professional.
(01:31):
You are an HR professional, butyou're much more than that,
because you're also anentrepreneur and a business
person.
And so what I really want totalk, what I want you to share
with our listeners, is yourthoughts on attracting talent
right, attracting talent,recruiting, then retaining
dedicated employees.
You know it's difficult.
(01:51):
You add low unemployment tothat.
You add fast changing needs dueto AI is going to change, is
starting to rock our worlds andas we'll continue to do so
faster and faster.
So getting good employees ishard and everybody is.
(02:13):
Employers are just keen to geta leg up here right, because
it's an important part of anygrowth strategy.
So you shared with me, a monthago or so, an employee value
perception study.
Tell us about that, and whatdid that tell you in terms of
this brand?
(02:33):
Well, just tell us about thisvalue perception study.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's been like kind of back to some of your
previous points too.
It's been a cool time to be inhuman resources, to your point.
Like I remember you know Imajor I started out as an
accounting major and telling mydad I was going to switch to
(02:59):
human resources and he was anengineer and kind of the look of
panic on his face because whaton earth would you ever do with
a human human resources degree?
Like you know, accounting isthe nuts and the bolts of a
business and fast forward to thelast few years.
(03:19):
Human resources has really kindof stepped up right in the last
few years and it kind of pairedwell with growing a business,
right.
It became a real need forbusinesses, especially, you know
, you know, in 2020,.
You know, finding talent andthe low employment you know
(03:40):
stats and finding and keepingtalent, all those things that
you mentioned.
It just really became a highpriority item for business
owners.
You know, not just for thesector of human resources, which
I've always kind of beenfocused on in my 20 years, just
because that's the field that Iwas in, that was the department
(04:01):
I was leading, but as a businessowner and as you're talking to
business owners, that suddenlybecame the thing that they were
most concerned about, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It became a hot button.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, it became a hot button.
So we joined One Digitalearlier this year.
So, as you mentioned, ourcompany was, we joined up with
One Digital and now I have aposition within that company and
they did a value propositionstudy and they really wanted to
(04:34):
get to the root of that.
What is it that keep employeesat certain organizations?
And there's been a lot oftheories over the years.
So they surveyed like 3,000employees.
What is it?
Is it the benefits?
Is it the pay?
And then there's a lot of thingsHR professionals have been
talking about over the years,culture being a huge one that
(04:58):
people have been talking about.
How do we build those cultures,those best places of work?
Is it leadership anddevelopment?
You know that's been a longtime narrative that people don't
quit companies, right, theyquit leaders.
That we hear.
You know that culture ofbelonging.
You know there's a lot ofdifferent theories that keep
(05:20):
employees different places andyou know I've always kind of
ascribed to the value that youknow people are people, right,
and we can look for trends andsimilarities, but really a lot
of times it comes down totalking to people and each
person being different, and soone of the things that, to your
(05:43):
point that came up on thissurvey.
The number one thing among allthese different things that
we've looked at for years wasbranding.
The number one thing peoplewere looking for was like a
brand that they identified withwhen they were looking at their
employer choices, and it kind ofrocked people's world.
(06:05):
They were really surprised tosee that they were looking for a
brand that they identified with.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
What do you think that means?
Because the word brand is alsomisunderstood right, because it
means 12 things to 10 people.
People are like well, the brandis the logo.
No, the brand is not it.
Right, because it means 12things to 10 people.
People are like well, the brandis the logo.
No, the brand is not the logo.
The brand is more than the logo.
Yeah, the Coca-Cola logo iscool, but the Coca-Cola brand is
about much more than the logoand the color red, right?
(06:36):
So what do you think employeesmean by the brand?
And the reputation is the mostimportant part of choosing an
employer and sticking with anemployer.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, there was like some analysis on the report.
You know there's kind of twodifferent theories on it.
Some of the analysis on it waslike people going on and looking
at Reddit and Glassdoor andkind of that social awareness of
the brand.
You know people want to workfor a company that is well-known
(07:08):
and well-thought of.
Has a good reputation, yeah,you know I want to work for
somebody that you know has apositive reputation out in the
market.
You know I want to work for aplace that People know, Social
responsibility was one of thethings on it that didn't score
as high as branding For me,something that I've seen just
(07:31):
intrinsically with one of thethings.
What our company does is justto backtrack a little bit is
we're the HR manager basicallyfor about 20 to 30 companies, so
for a small business that maybedoesn't have a full HR manager,
and outsourced HR.
We're outsourced, so we kind ofget that inside look of being
(07:52):
part of the team.
We get to be like part of theteam for like 20 or 30
organizations and the ones thatI think do it really really well
are the ones that kind of ownwho they are.
So I saw it written on anotebook at Walmart once and it
said what did it say?
(08:14):
It said show, show your vibe,attract your tribe.
Like show your vibe, attractyour tribe.
I saw it at Walmart once and Iwas like, yeah, attractor tribe.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I saw it at walmart once and I was like, yeah, and
it always.
But you know what I?
I I love that because I I think, um, I I think of, of branding,
whether that's employerbranding, like we're talking
about for winning the talentwars, or, you know, commercial
branding in a, in a marketingsense, I think of it as you know
, the, the magnet and magnets.
A good magnet, a strong magnet,attracts and repels.
(08:51):
So you add, a strong magnetwill not, should not and will
never attract everything.
So you have and I think that'swhere people get themselves in
trouble with any kind of outwardmessaging, be that branding or
marketing.
Or how do you talk as an HRperson to attract talent?
(09:16):
They want to be everything toeverybody and tell people what
they want to hear, instead oftelling them what they need to
hear, which is, hey, we're thiskind of a company, which means
we're not that kind of Totallyagree and that's what I think
the companies that do it.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, like a few years ago and you know we just
say this a lot of podcasts butwe started like kind of defining
what's good and what's bad.
Right, like we started doinglike surveys and we defined it
like okay, this is what gets youon a list that makes you a good
company.
And then we kind of startedquantifying what makes the
(09:51):
company good and what makes itbad.
Okay but, people can't like.
You and me probably have twodifferent favorite restaurants
right you know, that doesn'tmake your restaurant good,
because it serves me, not you.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, whatever your favorite restaurant.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Mine has chicken wings beer and yours has.
I don't know, maybe you're morerefined.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Oh, please, probably not.
I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You and me are probably at the same joint.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Let's be real.
But whatever, you know what Imean we started defining.
But to your point I agree, andI think that's why that notebook
at Walmart spoke to me, becauseit's like you, you embrace who
you are, authenticity.
I think that's like why artistslike Taylor Swift are speaking
to people, because they're justputting it out there, they're
being who they are and they'rerepelling some and attracting
(10:43):
others to your point.
So you know, for example, wehave a, you know, we have a
company.
They, they love dogs.
Everybody brings their dogs towork, you know.
So you could sit there and belike well, are we going to
exclude the people who love cats?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
You know what do we do.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And we do have to do that right, like when we're
screening people for that job.
You know, we do occasionallymeet someone who doesn't like
dogs.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know, and they're not going to be a fit for that
company, even though that reallyhas nothing to do with the and
that's okay.
Right, exactly, exactly,exactly.
But it makes it really awesomefor those dog loving people
(11:39):
Right who work there, right.
So I think that's what likeculture is, especially when you
can tie it intoverted, dependingon the kind of work they're
doing.
You know, we all don't need tobe out socializing and partying
and happy houring it up beers inthe fridge every day.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You know, some, some companies, they're gonna, you
know their brand's gonna bedifferent based on what they do,
like you talked about this boltcompany, the bolt company 15
years ago.
Right, I know right tell methat story like you were in the
lobby of a bolt company.
I don't know, were you applyingfor a job?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
or, yeah, this was a company that I had interviewed.
Uh, I interviewed for and, um,you know, they made a bolt, they
manufactured a bolt and youknow, you know, exciting yeah
for me.
You know, I I come from a longline of engineers married to
engineers.
(12:31):
At least a couple of mychildren are going to grow up
wait, you married a couple ofengineers wait, did I say
married a couple.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't, I think you just I've only married one.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm raising I'm married one I'm raising at least
a couple of engineers.
They don't know it yet, butthey will be.
They don't know it yet.
Um so, all the love in my heart, but for me I can't even.
I can't even like barely screwa picture into a wall.
You know, like, um, so I'm inhere and, and you know, they're
passionate.
(13:04):
They said we're passionateabout this.
You know this product we makeand all these things it does.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And I'm just like, and they have it in a glass
container in the front of theroom, and I walked out of that
interview and I'm like I justcan't muster up the enthusiasm
for this particular product, forthis particular product and
that to me like if that boltcompany who was so proud of the
bolt they made and they had itin a glass case and they talked
(13:33):
you know, they were the boltpeople If they had said well,
you know, we also want toattract people that are not so
much into bolts and that are,maybe, you know, into blah, blah
, blah.
And then you dilute it, youwater it down and you become
everything.
You become nothing to nobody.
If you try to be everything toeverybody, you become nothing to
nobody.
(13:53):
And I think that, to me, is whatin today's world, where
communication through theinternet is amplified everywhere
right, I mean just the way, Imean people like you and me,
companies like One Digital orRealign show up in dozens of
places online our website, oursocial media pages, our LinkedIn
(14:16):
profiles, dozens and dozens ofdifferent places, some which we
have control over, some of whichwe don't.
Like last war, right, that'sother people talking about us.
There's so much information outthere that the companies that
are trying to brand themselvesin a in an unauthentic way,
they're going to be found out,because we've developed a for
(14:43):
realizing the difference betweenfake branding and this is a
cool company, because somebodyis disagreeing openly and not
getting shot at Dawn for it.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, I totally agree .
And there's something strangethat has happened in HR for the
last few years where, like, whenyou go to like, do the branding
for your like marketing?
Let's say, you go out and youare like I want to have a logo
that's unique, right, Like likewhen I started my company, when
you started your company, I'msure we weren't like, hey,
(15:18):
what's every company that isdoing?
When I want my logo to lookexactly like every company, but
for some reason in HR we getthis all the time.
They're like what's everyoneelse doing?
I want to do exactly the same.
So it's been kind of cool tosee like it's starting to turn a
(15:39):
little bit right.
We're starting to getorganizations that are like okay
, what can we do?
That's different.
What can we do?
That's different.
What can we do?
That's unique?
Um, instead of always asking,like you know, getting the
survey data like what's everyonedoing?
Okay, 80 are, you know, doingthis?
Okay, let's do that too.
It's really weird in hr likeeveryone's trying to follow the
(16:04):
curve and so we're always tryingto say, like you know, what can
you do?
That's like different reallydifferent and really cool, and
sometimes it doesn't even haveto be like expensive or you know
um Sorry.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
It's okay, you got stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Sorry, I'm so sorry, I thought.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I turned that off.
It's all good, you're a busywoman.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, sorry, busy, busy.
Probably somebody wanting anidea right now, exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
No, but you're the third growth option.
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That's right.
That's right.
You're second.
You have to make a number.
Yeah, that's right.
But you know we're trying to dothat more and more with like
building that into your HRstrategy like a creative element
to it not just, you know,looking at best practices,
analyzing it.
(17:05):
Ok, you know there will alwaysbe a compliance part of HR.
There's always going to be I-9s, there's always going to be
applications, there's alwaysgoing to be training.
But what can you do that'sunique and different, that plays
into your client, not yourclient, your employee base.
That they're going to think isreally awesome.
You know, if you have a groupof accountants, what do
accountants like to do?
You know what is reallyimportant to them.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
That's a really good question, by the way.
I've not figured out the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And you know, guess who's going to have the answer?
It's going to be the employees.
So that's where, like when wego in, we do the compliance
piece, but we also do anorganizational assessment piece
where we go and ask theemployees what makes your
organization unique, what do youlike about your organization,
what do you?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
and and and try to get some of that information
from them so that they'retelling you what's unique and
different and you can kind of asthe business owner, amplify
that and play amplify that theirvoice right, not right yeah,
not what you think it'sinteresting because I, I think
(18:13):
the world we grew up in, youknow so, I, you know, I went to
school in the 70s and the 80s,right, um, and you know, back
then it was a different, it wasa pre-internet world, it was a,
you know, there were threechannels of on the television
(18:33):
right abc and cbs and nbc, andyour, your light went off.
Just oh, it did.
Yeah, your light went off, notnow you're kind of looking
bluish but it's okay.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, I just put everything off that might blink,
that's all right.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
That's all right, it's fine.
So we, we grew up in sort of amonochromatic world.
Right, three channels on tv,you had you, we were taught to
fit in.
Yeah, it was about cultural fit.
Like, I mean, cultural fit issort of an hr word from you know
, maybe the, maybe 10 years agoand 20 and 30 years ago.
(19:09):
I think.
Now it's about standing out.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I think, we're teaching.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I think it is up to everybody, both employees and
employers, on a, you know,branding level, to stand out.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I love that.
I hope that's true, um, becauseI would love that for us.
I think that's that's how you,I think that's how you make it.
I think that's you got to dosomething a little bit different
.
You know, I'm sure you foundthat in your business.
I know that I found that inmine.
You know you had to kind of, atleast from a marketing and
(19:48):
sales perspective, you've got todo things a little bit
different.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
And I think the word culture you're right has been
sort of beaten to death in a way.
I mean, it's just sort of, youknow, look, I love the phrase
that.
I think it was Peter Drucker,you know, who said culture has
strategy for breakfast, right?
So culture is important, ofcourse, but I think we've had
(20:14):
some companies sort of justoverdo it and, you know, sort of
put the word cult into culture.
I've worked early in my career.
My first one of my, I mean myfirst big company that I ever
worked for, was Ikea.
I worked for Ikea for fiveyears.
Great culture, but close tocult, ish, right, it was close
(20:37):
to.
You know, everybody had blueand yellow running through their
veins, right and and and that'sa danger and, and I always talk
about.
You know, you have, um, you know, instead of using the word
cultural fit, I think you haveto be about cultural.
You have to look for culturalcontribution, right.
Encourage your people, yourteam members, to contribute to
(21:00):
this culture in your own way.
So don't't go against it.
Don't be, you know, the rebelwithout a cause, right, but
contribute to the culture,because if you're just looking
to fit in, it becomes like asorority, fraternity, where
everybody looks the same, speaksthe same, wears the same, and
then it becomes a cult, right.
(21:21):
So is that am I hearing?
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, Colleen, but I think
what I'm hearing you say isthat employer branding is really
important for the recruitingprocess, the retaining means.
You know, showing the warts andaccepting the fact that you
(21:51):
know we're not perfect.
You know it's not stepfordwives, is that?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
yeah, and and nurturing it as you grow right,
like so.
A lot of the businesses we workwith are small so a lot of
times that's going to be likethe owner.
The owner is going to kind ofdrive that and then like, as
you're talking about biggercompanies, like you know, an
Ikea or companies like that,nurturing that right, so, so, as
(22:16):
they grow, you know, being alittle bit more intentional of
that and making sure it doesn'tbecome something where it's, you
know you're, you're dictatingit, but what's the you know
what's the core elements of itand um, being organic, right
yeah.
Being more organic about it andand make sure it's aligning
(22:37):
around what you're doing as abusiness, right?
So I think where companies getit wrong is, you know, like you
know, for instance, like youknow, a Coke like that should
somehow be aligned around theproduct you know.
Or even an Ikea, like you know,it should probably be around
(22:59):
like living you know comfortableliving and you know simplicity,
and I don't know you were there, you could probably describe it
more to me it should be alignedaround the mission and the
drive and the bottom line of thecompany and what they're trying
to sell and produce and putinto the world.
Somehow we've gotten off-kiltera little bit.
(23:20):
Where the branding isn't theemployee part of it is this
whole.
It's whole different life.
You know it's like right youknow, like okay, we're all about
.
You know I don't want to pickon work-life balance, but like,
okay, work-life balance, okay,okay.
How does that align into thecompany mission?
You know, you know what I mean.
Like they shouldn't be threeseparate sets of values.
(23:42):
They should all flow into likeone thing that supports and
drives the mission of thecompany.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I don't know.
Yeah, no, I mean a good exampleof what you're talking about at
IKEA.
So IKEA's mission statementamazing that, like I've let I
left that company.
I mean I worked in that companyin my mid to late 20s, which
was more than a decade ago.
Their mission statement is I'mgoing to paraphrase it, not get
(24:08):
it exactly right we improve theeveryday life of the majority of
people.
So everyday life and majorityof people speaks to.
You know, we have homefurnishings at a price level
that most people can afford it.
We have stores that you knowmake you comfortable, whether
(24:30):
you walk in by yourself or withyour family, or three different
generations, with thegrandparents or the grandkids.
So therefore there is arestaurant there, right?
So, like all this whole idea ofmajority of people, everyday
life and majority of people, ittranslated into the way that we
were inside the office.
Right, we had, you know, we thedress code was jeans or, you
(24:53):
know, casual there.
The CEO didn't have a corneroffice.
In fact, he happened to be in acubicle next to my cubicle and
just not because I was, I didn'treport to him at age 27, right,
but that's just kind of the way.
It was a very sort ofdemocratic flat organization
(25:16):
where people were just, you know, there was not a lot of
privilege, you know, like corneroffice privilege for the
C-suite.
In fact there was no C-suite,it was just he was called the
country manager.
The CEO for North America wascalled the country manager, so
the title was not intimidating,right?
But I think what I'm hearingyou say and again, I don't want
(25:40):
to put words in your mouth, socorrect me if I'm wrong, but I
think what I'm hearing you say,colleen, is for employers to
attract top talent, beintentional about how you're
perceived out in the world onGlassdoor, through your website,
through your media, throughyour employer branding, and find
that right balance betweenstrategically showing people
(26:02):
what you do and being authenticand organic and and let people
be people, right yeah, yeah, Ithink that's that's what people
want.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
They want it, they want authenticity.
If everybody's looking forsomething, something real, right
now, you know something toconnect to awesome, uh, colleen.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Uh, if folks wanted to reach out to you one-on-one,
where is a good place to findyou?
Is it just LinkedIn?
Colleen Fowler.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, linkedin is a great place to find me.
It's Colleen, I'm sure you'llhave it written somewhere.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Oh, spell it out, spell it out.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, it's with a P, as in Paul, and an F, as in
Frank Colleen Fowler.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
Email me.
We're with One Digital.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And it's onedigitalcom.
Is it just one digit O-N-Edigitalcom?
Yep Onedigitalcom Giving alittle plug to the people that
bought your company.
That's awesome, hey.
Hey, this was a greatconversation.
I appreciate you blowing offsome other people while we were
(27:13):
recording this.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Uh I'm sorry, it's all good.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It's all good um, you're a hard woman to get a
hold of, but no, this, this,this was good.
And um, I'll give a little plugto my business in this context.
We're a growth agency.
I've heard it said time andagain that one of the best
retention strategies is a growthstrategy, because people want
(27:40):
to belong to companies, work forcompanies that are growing.
Absolutely to belong tocompanies, work for companies
that are growing.
So that you know Absolutely, I'mnot going to go off on a
self-promotional tangent there,but I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Colleen, this was great.
Yeah, I really appreciate theinvite, so thanks so much for
the conversation and being onyour podcast.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, thanks, benno.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO
podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealign4resultscom.
You can find me, Benno, host ofTGO podcast, there as well.
Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O atrealignforresultscom.
(28:29):
Let's keep growing, Thank you.
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hello, I'm Colleen Fowler.
I'm the principal of HRconsulting in Cincinnati Ohio at
One Digital.
Of HR Consulting in CincinnatiOhio at One Digital.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hey, colleen, I am so glad to have you on this
podcast.
My name is Benno, host of ThirdGrowth Option Podcast, and
welcome, and Colleen.
So you and I are both Vistagemembers we're in the same
Vistage group so I've gotten toknow you over the years and you
are what I would call anatypical HR professional,
(01:08):
because I've never met an HRprofessional who is also an
entrepreneur, started up her ownbusiness and sold it, exited it
.
You know these are the coolwords that the startup community
uses and private equity.
You know you did a startup, youdid an exit.
So you are, in my mind, muchmore than an HR professional.
(01:31):
You are an HR professional, butyou're much more than that,
because you're also anentrepreneur and a business
person.
And so what I really want totalk, what I want you to share
with our listeners, is yourthoughts on attracting talent
right, attracting talent,recruiting, then retaining
dedicated employees.
You know it's difficult.
(01:51):
You add low unemployment tothat.
You add fast changing needs dueto AI is going to change, is
starting to rock our worlds andas we'll continue to do so
faster and faster.
So getting good employees ishard and everybody is.
(02:13):
Employers are just keen to geta leg up here right, because
it's an important part of anygrowth strategy.
So you shared with me, a monthago or so, an employee value
perception study.
Tell us about that, and whatdid that tell you in terms of
this brand?
(02:33):
Well, just tell us about thisvalue perception study.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's been like kind of back to some of your
previous points too.
It's been a cool time to be inhuman resources, to your point.
Like I remember you know Imajor I started out as an
accounting major and telling mydad I was going to switch to
(02:59):
human resources and he was anengineer and kind of the look of
panic on his face because whaton earth would you ever do with
a human human resources degree?
Like you know, accounting isthe nuts and the bolts of a
business and fast forward to thelast few years.
(03:19):
Human resources has really kindof stepped up right in the last
few years and it kind of pairedwell with growing a business,
right.
It became a real need forbusinesses, especially, you know
, you know, in 2020,.
You know, finding talent andthe low employment you know
(03:40):
stats and finding and keepingtalent, all those things that
you mentioned.
It just really became a highpriority item for business
owners.
You know, not just for thesector of human resources, which
I've always kind of beenfocused on in my 20 years, just
because that's the field that Iwas in, that was the department
(04:01):
I was leading, but as a businessowner and as you're talking to
business owners, that suddenlybecame the thing that they were
most concerned about, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It became a hot button.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, it became a hot button.
So we joined One Digitalearlier this year.
So, as you mentioned, ourcompany was, we joined up with
One Digital and now I have aposition within that company and
they did a value propositionstudy and they really wanted to
(04:34):
get to the root of that.
What is it that keep employeesat certain organizations?
And there's been a lot oftheories over the years.
So they surveyed like 3,000employees.
What is it?
Is it the benefits?
Is it the pay?
And then there's a lot of thingsHR professionals have been
talking about over the years,culture being a huge one that
(04:58):
people have been talking about.
How do we build those cultures,those best places of work?
Is it leadership anddevelopment?
You know that's been a longtime narrative that people don't
quit companies, right, theyquit leaders.
That we hear.
You know that culture ofbelonging.
You know there's a lot ofdifferent theories that keep
(05:20):
employees different places andyou know I've always kind of
ascribed to the value that youknow people are people, right,
and we can look for trends andsimilarities, but really a lot
of times it comes down totalking to people and each
person being different, and soone of the things that, to your
(05:43):
point that came up on thissurvey.
The number one thing among allthese different things that
we've looked at for years wasbranding.
The number one thing peoplewere looking for was like a
brand that they identified withwhen they were looking at their
employer choices, and it kind ofrocked people's world.
(06:05):
They were really surprised tosee that they were looking for a
brand that they identified with.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
What do you think that means?
Because the word brand is alsomisunderstood right, because it
means 12 things to 10 people.
People are like well, the brandis the logo.
No, the brand is not it.
Right, because it means 12things to 10 people.
People are like well, the brandis the logo.
No, the brand is not the logo.
The brand is more than the logo.
Yeah, the Coca-Cola logo iscool, but the Coca-Cola brand is
about much more than the logoand the color red, right?
(06:36):
So what do you think employeesmean by the brand?
And the reputation is the mostimportant part of choosing an
employer and sticking with anemployer.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, there was like some analysis on the report.
You know there's kind of twodifferent theories on it.
Some of the analysis on it waslike people going on and looking
at Reddit and Glassdoor andkind of that social awareness of
the brand.
You know people want to workfor a company that is well-known
(07:08):
and well-thought of.
Has a good reputation, yeah,you know I want to work for
somebody that you know has apositive reputation out in the
market.
You know I want to work for aplace that People know, Social
responsibility was one of thethings on it that didn't score
as high as branding For me,something that I've seen just
(07:31):
intrinsically with one of thethings.
What our company does is justto backtrack a little bit is
we're the HR manager basicallyfor about 20 to 30 companies, so
for a small business that maybedoesn't have a full HR manager,
and outsourced HR.
We're outsourced, so we kind ofget that inside look of being
(07:52):
part of the team.
We get to be like part of theteam for like 20 or 30
organizations and the ones thatI think do it really really well
are the ones that kind of ownwho they are.
So I saw it written on anotebook at Walmart once and it
said what did it say?
(08:14):
It said show, show your vibe,attract your tribe.
Like show your vibe, attractyour tribe.
I saw it at Walmart once and Iwas like, yeah, attractor tribe.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I saw it at walmart once and I was like, yeah, and
it always.
But you know what I?
I I love that because I I think, um, I I think of, of branding,
whether that's employerbranding, like we're talking
about for winning the talentwars, or, you know, commercial
branding in a, in a marketingsense, I think of it as you know
, the, the magnet and magnets.
A good magnet, a strong magnet,attracts and repels.
(08:51):
So you add, a strong magnetwill not, should not and will
never attract everything.
So you have and I think that'swhere people get themselves in
trouble with any kind of outwardmessaging, be that branding or
marketing.
Or how do you talk as an HRperson to attract talent?
(09:16):
They want to be everything toeverybody and tell people what
they want to hear, instead oftelling them what they need to
hear, which is, hey, we're thiskind of a company, which means
we're not that kind of Totallyagree and that's what I think
the companies that do it.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, like a few years ago and you know we just
say this a lot of podcasts butwe started like kind of defining
what's good and what's bad.
Right, like we started doinglike surveys and we defined it
like okay, this is what gets youon a list that makes you a good
company.
And then we kind of startedquantifying what makes the
(09:51):
company good and what makes itbad.
Okay but, people can't like.
You and me probably have twodifferent favorite restaurants
right you know, that doesn'tmake your restaurant good,
because it serves me, not you.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, whatever your favorite restaurant.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Mine has chicken wings beer and yours has.
I don't know, maybe you're morerefined.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Oh, please, probably not.
I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You and me are probably at the same joint.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Let's be real.
But whatever, you know what Imean we started defining.
But to your point I agree, andI think that's why that notebook
at Walmart spoke to me, becauseit's like you, you embrace who
you are, authenticity.
I think that's like why artistslike Taylor Swift are speaking
to people, because they're justputting it out there, they're
being who they are and they'rerepelling some and attracting
(10:43):
others to your point.
So you know, for example, wehave a, you know, we have a
company.
They, they love dogs.
Everybody brings their dogs towork, you know.
So you could sit there and belike well, are we going to
exclude the people who love cats?
Speaker 3 (11:01):
You know what do we do.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And we do have to do that right, like when we're
screening people for that job.
You know, we do occasionallymeet someone who doesn't like
dogs.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know, and they're not going to be a fit for that
company, even though that reallyhas nothing to do with the and
that's okay.
Right, exactly, exactly,exactly.
But it makes it really awesomefor those dog loving people
(11:39):
Right who work there, right.
So I think that's what likeculture is, especially when you
can tie it intoverted, dependingon the kind of work they're
doing.
You know, we all don't need tobe out socializing and partying
and happy houring it up beers inthe fridge every day.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
You know, some, some companies, they're gonna, you
know their brand's gonna bedifferent based on what they do,
like you talked about this boltcompany, the bolt company 15
years ago.
Right, I know right tell methat story like you were in the
lobby of a bolt company.
I don't know, were you applyingfor a job?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
or, yeah, this was a company that I had interviewed.
Uh, I interviewed for and, um,you know, they made a bolt, they
manufactured a bolt and youknow, you know, exciting yeah
for me.
You know, I I come from a longline of engineers married to
engineers.
(12:31):
At least a couple of mychildren are going to grow up
wait, you married a couple ofengineers wait, did I say
married a couple.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't, I think you just I've only married one.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm raising I'm married one I'm raising at least
a couple of engineers.
They don't know it yet, butthey will be.
They don't know it yet.
Um so, all the love in my heart, but for me I can't even.
I can't even like barely screwa picture into a wall.
You know, like, um, so I'm inhere and, and you know, they're
passionate.
(13:04):
They said we're passionateabout this.
You know this product we makeand all these things it does.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And I'm just like, and they have it in a glass
container in the front of theroom, and I walked out of that
interview and I'm like I justcan't muster up the enthusiasm
for this particular product, forthis particular product and
that to me like if that boltcompany who was so proud of the
bolt they made and they had itin a glass case and they talked
(13:33):
you know, they were the boltpeople If they had said well,
you know, we also want toattract people that are not so
much into bolts and that are,maybe, you know, into blah, blah
, blah.
And then you dilute it, youwater it down and you become
everything.
You become nothing to nobody.
If you try to be everything toeverybody, you become nothing to
nobody.
(13:53):
And I think that, to me, is whatin today's world, where
communication through theinternet is amplified everywhere
right, I mean just the way, Imean people like you and me,
companies like One Digital orRealign show up in dozens of
places online our website, oursocial media pages, our LinkedIn
(14:16):
profiles, dozens and dozens ofdifferent places, some which we
have control over, some of whichwe don't.
Like last war, right, that'sother people talking about us.
There's so much information outthere that the companies that
are trying to brand themselvesin a in an unauthentic way,
they're going to be found out,because we've developed a for
(14:43):
realizing the difference betweenfake branding and this is a
cool company, because somebodyis disagreeing openly and not
getting shot at Dawn for it.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, I totally agree .
And there's something strangethat has happened in HR for the
last few years where, like, whenyou go to like, do the branding
for your like marketing?
Let's say, you go out and youare like I want to have a logo
that's unique, right, Like likewhen I started my company, when
you started your company, I'msure we weren't like, hey,
(15:18):
what's every company that isdoing?
When I want my logo to lookexactly like every company, but
for some reason in HR we getthis all the time.
They're like what's everyoneelse doing?
I want to do exactly the same.
So it's been kind of cool tosee like it's starting to turn a
(15:39):
little bit right.
We're starting to getorganizations that are like okay
, what can we do?
That's different.
What can we do?
That's different.
What can we do?
That's unique?
Um, instead of always asking,like you know, getting the
survey data like what's everyonedoing?
Okay, 80 are, you know, doingthis?
Okay, let's do that too.
It's really weird in hr likeeveryone's trying to follow the
(16:04):
curve and so we're always tryingto say, like you know, what can
you do?
That's like different reallydifferent and really cool, and
sometimes it doesn't even haveto be like expensive or you know
um Sorry.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
It's okay, you got stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Sorry, I'm so sorry, I thought.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I turned that off.
It's all good, you're a busywoman.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, sorry, busy, busy.
Probably somebody wanting anidea right now, exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
No, but you're the third growth option.
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That's right.
That's right.
You're second.
You have to make a number.
Yeah, that's right.
But you know we're trying to dothat more and more with like
building that into your HRstrategy like a creative element
to it not just, you know,looking at best practices,
analyzing it.
(17:05):
Ok, you know there will alwaysbe a compliance part of HR.
There's always going to be I-9s, there's always going to be
applications, there's alwaysgoing to be training.
But what can you do that'sunique and different, that plays
into your client, not yourclient, your employee base.
That they're going to think isreally awesome.
You know, if you have a groupof accountants, what do
accountants like to do?
You know what is reallyimportant to them.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
That's a really good question, by the way.
I've not figured out the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And you know, guess who's going to have the answer?
It's going to be the employees.
So that's where, like when wego in, we do the compliance
piece, but we also do anorganizational assessment piece
where we go and ask theemployees what makes your
organization unique, what do youlike about your organization,
what do you?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
and and and try to get some of that information
from them so that they'retelling you what's unique and
different and you can kind of asthe business owner, amplify
that and play amplify that theirvoice right, not right yeah,
not what you think it'sinteresting because I, I think
(18:13):
the world we grew up in, youknow so, I, you know, I went to
school in the 70s and the 80s,right, um, and you know, back
then it was a different, it wasa pre-internet world, it was a,
you know, there were threechannels of on the television
(18:33):
right abc and cbs and nbc, andyour, your light went off.
Just oh, it did.
Yeah, your light went off, notnow you're kind of looking
bluish but it's okay.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, I just put everything off that might blink,
that's all right.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
That's all right, it's fine.
So we, we grew up in sort of amonochromatic world.
Right, three channels on tv,you had you, we were taught to
fit in.
Yeah, it was about cultural fit.
Like, I mean, cultural fit issort of an hr word from you know
, maybe the, maybe 10 years agoand 20 and 30 years ago.
(19:09):
I think.
Now it's about standing out.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I think, we're teaching.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I think it is up to everybody, both employees and
employers, on a, you know,branding level, to stand out.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I love that.
I hope that's true, um, becauseI would love that for us.
I think that's that's how you,I think that's how you make it.
I think that's you got to dosomething a little bit different
.
You know, I'm sure you foundthat in your business.
I know that I found that inmine.
You know you had to kind of, atleast from a marketing and
(19:48):
sales perspective, you've got todo things a little bit
different.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
And I think the word culture you're right has been
sort of beaten to death in a way.
I mean, it's just sort of, youknow, look, I love the phrase
that.
I think it was Peter Drucker,you know, who said culture has
strategy for breakfast, right?
So culture is important, ofcourse, but I think we've had
(20:14):
some companies sort of justoverdo it and, you know, sort of
put the word cult into culture.
I've worked early in my career.
My first one of my, I mean myfirst big company that I ever
worked for, was Ikea.
I worked for Ikea for fiveyears.
Great culture, but close tocult, ish, right, it was close
(20:37):
to.
You know, everybody had blueand yellow running through their
veins, right and and and that'sa danger and, and I always talk
about.
You know, you have, um, you know, instead of using the word
cultural fit, I think you haveto be about cultural.
You have to look for culturalcontribution, right.
Encourage your people, yourteam members, to contribute to
(21:00):
this culture in your own way.
So don't't go against it.
Don't be, you know, the rebelwithout a cause, right, but
contribute to the culture,because if you're just looking
to fit in, it becomes like asorority, fraternity, where
everybody looks the same, speaksthe same, wears the same, and
then it becomes a cult, right.
(21:21):
So is that am I hearing?
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, Colleen, but I think
what I'm hearing you say isthat employer branding is really
important for the recruitingprocess, the retaining means.
You know, showing the warts andaccepting the fact that you
(21:51):
know we're not perfect.
You know it's not stepfordwives, is that?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
yeah, and and nurturing it as you grow right,
like so.
A lot of the businesses we workwith are small so a lot of
times that's going to be likethe owner.
The owner is going to kind ofdrive that and then like, as
you're talking about biggercompanies, like you know, an
Ikea or companies like that,nurturing that right, so, so, as
(22:16):
they grow, you know, being alittle bit more intentional of
that and making sure it doesn'tbecome something where it's, you
know you're, you're dictatingit, but what's the you know
what's the core elements of itand um, being organic, right
yeah.
Being more organic about it andand make sure it's aligning
(22:37):
around what you're doing as abusiness, right?
So I think where companies getit wrong is, you know, like you
know, for instance, like youknow, a Coke like that should
somehow be aligned around theproduct you know.
Or even an Ikea, like you know,it should probably be around
(22:59):
like living you know comfortableliving and you know simplicity,
and I don't know you were there, you could probably describe it
more to me it should be alignedaround the mission and the
drive and the bottom line of thecompany and what they're trying
to sell and produce and putinto the world.
Somehow we've gotten off-kiltera little bit.
(23:20):
Where the branding isn't theemployee part of it is this
whole.
It's whole different life.
You know it's like right youknow, like okay, we're all about
.
You know I don't want to pickon work-life balance, but like,
okay, work-life balance, okay,okay.
How does that align into thecompany mission?
You know, you know what I mean.
Like they shouldn't be threeseparate sets of values.
(23:42):
They should all flow into likeone thing that supports and
drives the mission of thecompany.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I don't know.
Yeah, no, I mean a good exampleof what you're talking about at
IKEA.
So IKEA's mission statementamazing that, like I've let I
left that company.
I mean I worked in that companyin my mid to late 20s, which
was more than a decade ago.
Their mission statement is I'mgoing to paraphrase it, not get
(24:08):
it exactly right we improve theeveryday life of the majority of
people.
So everyday life and majorityof people speaks to.
You know, we have homefurnishings at a price level
that most people can afford it.
We have stores that you knowmake you comfortable, whether
(24:30):
you walk in by yourself or withyour family, or three different
generations, with thegrandparents or the grandkids.
So therefore there is arestaurant there, right?
So, like all this whole idea ofmajority of people, everyday
life and majority of people, ittranslated into the way that we
were inside the office.
Right, we had, you know, we thedress code was jeans or, you
(24:53):
know, casual there.
The CEO didn't have a corneroffice.
In fact, he happened to be in acubicle next to my cubicle and
just not because I was, I didn'treport to him at age 27, right,
but that's just kind of the way.
It was a very sort ofdemocratic flat organization
(25:16):
where people were just, you know, there was not a lot of
privilege, you know, like corneroffice privilege for the
C-suite.
In fact there was no C-suite,it was just he was called the
country manager.
The CEO for North America wascalled the country manager, so
the title was not intimidating,right?
But I think what I'm hearingyou say and again, I don't want
(25:40):
to put words in your mouth, socorrect me if I'm wrong, but I
think what I'm hearing you say,colleen, is for employers to
attract top talent, beintentional about how you're
perceived out in the world onGlassdoor, through your website,
through your media, throughyour employer branding, and find
that right balance betweenstrategically showing people
(26:02):
what you do and being authenticand organic and and let people
be people, right yeah, yeah, Ithink that's that's what people
want.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
They want it, they want authenticity.
If everybody's looking forsomething, something real, right
now, you know something toconnect to awesome, uh, colleen.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Uh, if folks wanted to reach out to you one-on-one,
where is a good place to findyou?
Is it just LinkedIn?
Colleen Fowler.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, linkedin is a great place to find me.
It's Colleen, I'm sure you'llhave it written somewhere.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Oh, spell it out, spell it out.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, it's with a P, as in Paul, and an F, as in
Frank Colleen Fowler.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
Email me.
We're with One Digital.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And it's onedigitalcom.
Is it just one digit O-N-Edigitalcom?
Yep Onedigitalcom Giving alittle plug to the people that
bought your company.
That's awesome, hey.
Hey, this was a greatconversation.
I appreciate you blowing offsome other people while we were
(27:13):
recording this.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Uh I'm sorry, it's all good.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It's all good um, you're a hard woman to get a
hold of, but no, this, this,this was good.
And um, I'll give a little plugto my business in this context.
We're a growth agency.
I've heard it said time andagain that one of the best
retention strategies is a growthstrategy, because people want
(27:40):
to belong to companies, work forcompanies that are growing.
Absolutely to belong tocompanies, work for companies
that are growing.
So that you know Absolutely, I'mnot going to go off on a
self-promotional tangent there,but I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Colleen, this was great.
Yeah, I really appreciate theinvite, so thanks so much for
the conversation and being onyour podcast.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, thanks, benno.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO
podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealign4resultscom.
You can find me, Benno, host ofTGO podcast, there as well.
Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O atrealignforresultscom.
(28:29):
Let's keep growing, Thank you.
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