September 5, 2024 • 27 mins
Are you looking for a Third Growth Option ℠ ?
Get the inside scoop on mastering consumer research with Shehnaz Safiuddin, a pro in brand strategy and consumer insights. In this episode, we dig into how combining qualitative and quantitative methods can give you a sharper view of consumer behavior, helping you make smarter, more strategic business decisions.
Shehnaz breaks down the nuts and bolts of primary versus secondary research, offering practical tips on using focus groups, in-depth interviews, and ethnographic studies. Whether you're a seasoned marketer or just dipping your toes into market research, these insights will help you cut through the noise and avoid analysis paralysis.
We also chat about how to gather valuable insights when direct customer data isn’t easy to come by. Learn from the playbooks of legends like Steve Jobs and Henry Ford, who knew how to tap into consumer needs and turn them into game-changing products. Plus, we cover flexible research strategies that fit any budget—whether you’re going all-in with outsourced studies or taking the DIY route with tools like SurveyMonkey and Google Forms.
Stay curious, stay adaptable, and make sure your brand story hits home with your audience.
Always growing.
Benno Duenkelsbuehler
CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi, I'm Shanaa Safiuddin, here in sunny Chicago
today and I am a brand strategyand consumer insights slash
market research consultant.
I started my own consultancy acouple of years ago and thank
you, Benno, for having me asyour guest today.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, and I'm Benno, your host.
This is TGO Podcast and I'mexcited to just demystify really
the consumer research.
Just demystify really theconsumer research, how you do it
, how you tell your clients todo it, why you do it.
Shanaz, you and I have knowneach other for going on 10 years
(01:15):
or so, yeah, so I know you andrespect you as a marketer, but I
also know you're a veryintentional person, and the
reason I know that is becauseyou're a black belt taekwondo
martial artist, and the reason Iknow what that means is because
(01:38):
I happen to have a wife and adaughter who are that I got into
some kind of, you know, belt,number six out of 10 color belt
which I took purely forself-defense at home.
But you know, I think the factthat you're very intentional as
a person and as a professionalis worth noting.
(01:59):
And so you founded SnapkickMarketing a couple years ago.
You and I got to know eachother through board work at
Precious Moments, where you wereVP of marketing for some five
years and you were with FisherPrice 13 years total, four years
(02:24):
once, and then came back innine years another time.
Um, and you know you have agreat background with other uh,
just, very well-known brands,godiva and uh, general mills and
um, uh, top supermarkets whichI remember from my days in
upstate new york.
Um, but market research and andinsights that whole topic can be
so overwhelming.
Also misused, I find,oftentimes sort of in boardrooms
(02:48):
, as an excuse for makingdecisions hey, let's get more
data, let's get more research,sort of an excuse for analysis,
paralysis.
But getting good data and tyingthem together into helpful
insights.
You know, I think it can be assimple as having a five-minute
(03:10):
conversation with the rightperson asking the right
questions, I agree, and it canbe as extensive or expensive as
spending $50,000 or $5 millionon, you know, a long, a long,
drawn out, academic and alsosuper helpful process.
Um, talk a little bit justthrough.
Just talk a little bit throughthe differences of qualitative
(03:34):
and quantitative data.
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Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah.
So qualitative data is greatwhen you really want to see the
consumer's reactions andexperience their behavior
firsthand and really understandtheir underlying motivations.
And some examples ofqualitative research are focus
groups, which everybody's heardabout.
Focus groups there's in-depthinterviews which are kind of
one-on-ones.
You can do ethnographicresearch, which means you're
actually truly experienced theconsumer using your product or
(04:53):
going through their sort ofday-to-day process for any
particular thing that you'retrying to explore.
Quantitative research lets youdraw generalized conclusions
among a much broader audience.
So you're going to probably,you know, survey hundreds of
people.
It can have statisticalsignificance because you're
talking to so many people, alarge enough sample size where
(05:16):
you can actually draw somebigger conclusions.
So they work really well handin hand.
You're usually not going to dojust one or the other.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And well, let me ask another question On the
quantitative data you know youtalked about.
You know, maybe surveying 100people or 1000 people and
getting data points from that.
It's also just market data,right?
(05:49):
I mean just looking at abillion dollar market that buys
this type of product andconsists of those types of
demographics and psychographics,right?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, so you bring up a good point actually.
So within research, there's twobig buckets of research
Actually.
There's primary research, whichis kind of what I was just
talking about when you wereasking me about qualitative and
quantitative.
That's primary research.
It's firsthand data that youown.
So you're commissioning it,perhaps working with an outside
vendor, You're targeting it toyour specific audience, you have
(06:23):
a specific objective in mindand this research is done just
for you.
And then there is the secondbucket, which is some of the
stuff that I think you'realluding to, which is called
secondary research.
It's also called desk research,and a lot of times you'll do
desk research or secondaryresearch at the beginning of a
project, to get the lay of theland, to try to understand the
(06:45):
landscape, like you were talkingabout, sort of industry
information and things like that.
So there's a lot of freeinformation available out there
or reports that aren't tooexpensive that can shed some
light on your business question.
You know at hand at that moment.
There's syndicated data,there's retailer scan data.
So if you're already in themarketplace and you have great
relationships with yourretailers, they can give you
(07:07):
scan data for your own product.
There's trade journals,industry studies, trends,
associations like WGSN happensto be one I've used before.
They do a lot of differentreports on different demographic
segments and things.
There's reviews.
There's your customer.
So your customer is actuallycan provide secondary research
(07:28):
through their reviews, throughcustomer generated data like
social media posts and thingslike that, or influencers,
things that they say.
And then there's onlineresearch, which, of course, when
I started my career 30 plusyears ago, we didn't have online
research, but you can Googlepretty much anything and get
some pretty good information,including competitor information
(07:50):
.
So there is a lot of informationout there at your fingertips
Well, maybe I shouldn't say it'sat your fingertips.
Sometimes you have to do alittle bit of digging, but you
can get a pretty good lay of theland through secondary research
.
That helps you then sort offormulate some hypotheses, maybe
find a little bit of whitespace.
And, by the way, secondaryresearch also includes any
(08:12):
internal information you mighthave.
So companies have internalinformation from studies that
they did years ago.
They have their own internalscan data.
They have their own data ofwhat they're shipping you know
more or less of.
So there's a lot of informationlike that you can use to create
sort of that initial hypothesisor direction for where you want
to go, and then you can getinto the primary research after
(08:55):
that and there's also a lot ofyou know.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
You know is around $100, $120 million.
You know you can find resourcesthat say resources that say
that they did $4 million lastyear or they did $300 million
last year.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah Well, and you do have to.
I don't want to say take itwith a grain of salt, but I
think you need to know where tolook and what types of
information.
So, for example, when we wereworking together at Precious
Moments and I was working onsome strategy, some kind of new
strategy, new direction that wewanted to head in, you know, I
was relatively new to thecompany and one of the first
things I did was take a look atsome trade journals.
(09:31):
So you know, home and Deck is.
You know there's a.
It's a big journal that's usedin the, in the giftware industry
, and they do some of their ownresearch.
So actually they do their ownquantitative research but
because we subscribed, I couldgo in and look at their reports
and you know that that'sactually valid, factual
information.
So you do have to think aboutwhen you're online, like with
(09:56):
anything, you have to actuallymake sure that you're vetting it
a little bit so that you're notjust listening to.
You know Every bit ofinformation you find there.
But there is a decent amount ofinformation that you can get,
that is that is factual.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So my favorite quote that is sort of a knock on
market research is the famousHenry Ford quote.
If I had asked them what kindof car they wanted, they would
have said a faster horse, rightyeah.
And I think you know.
If I had asked them what kindof car they wanted, they would
have said a faster horse, rightyeah.
And I think you know Fordcompany.
(10:30):
You know, with the Model T acentury ago, and Apple Steve
Jobs and Apple, I think, areboth highly innovative companies
that got extremely importantinsights that they couldn't get
(10:51):
from asking the customer adirect question would you like
an iPhone?
Because an iPhone didn't exist.
And the customer would you like?
You know, would you like?
You know?
What kind of a car do you want?
Well, I want a faster horse,because that's the frame of
(11:13):
reference that the customer has.
So talk a little bit about, youknow, bridging that gap when
you cannot get data directlyfrom the customer and you have
to sort of you know.
I mean there were other datapoints that Steve Jobs and Henry
(11:35):
Ford found that made them thinkyou know what?
I bet you a Model T might be athing.
I bet you an iPhone might be athing.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's a, it's a really it's an
interesting point.
So you know, here's the thingabout market research it really
can do a lot of different things, not just one thing.
So it does help you understandthe consumer, and even in that
situation, you know the fast forhorse situation.
Understanding the consumer isimportant.
It helps you identifyopportunities and mitigate some
(12:05):
risks.
Now you know you're talkingabout new technology and real
innovation when you talk aboutiPhones, and you know the first
automobile and things like that.
What's interesting, though, likein the Ford example, the key
takeaway is understanding thatpeople.
What people really wanted wasto get somewhere more quickly.
(12:25):
So, instead of, oh, I want afaster horse, it's actually.
So.
There's two things actuallywhen I think about market
research slash, consumerinsights.
Market research, to me, is thedata.
Consumer insights is sort ofthe analysis and what you take
away from it.
So the consumer if they youknow, if they told Henry Ford
that you know, I want a fasterhorse, they're really telling
(12:46):
him that they want to getsomewhere more quickly.
So his job was to showconsumers that his car is, that
his car is the faster horse, youknow we can't get horses to
actually run faster, but this isyour faster horse.
So research might not, you know,you might not.
If you did, you know, if Ibefore did sort of a concept
test like we do now, you knowand show, you know, the Model T
(13:09):
or whatever, maybe it wouldn'tget good ratings.
So there's a certain amount ofrisk that you do take when
you're leading edge, when you'recoming into a whole new
category, a whole new world.
And I can give you one examplethat I didn't personally work on
but that I heard about when Ifirst entered the toy industry.
So I did spend about 16, 18years in the toy industry at a
(13:30):
couple of companies, most atFisher Price, which you
mentioned, and when I first gotto Fisher Price this was in the
90s, so it was about 10 yearsafter baby monitors were first
launched.
But I had heard stories abouthow when baby monitors were
first researched with moms, theydidn't like it at all because
(13:51):
they felt like I don't need this, because if I have this it
means I'm not being a good mom.
It's my job to watch the baby,so I'm not doing a good job.
But companies in the children'sproducts industry knew that
there was some benefit to it andthe benefit for mom is
multifold in terms of her beingable to do the dishes and still
kind of listen.
I mean back in the day it waslisten.
(14:12):
Today you can watch, but youknow back.
You know, 40 years ago you werelistening for baby's voice.
It allowed mom to not have togo into the room to check the
baby and maybe possibly wakethem up, you know.
So there were a lot of benefits.
So it's really taking the dataand understanding, going a
little bit deeper, beyond whatthey say and understanding the
(14:33):
motivation behind what they'resaying.
And also it helps in sort ofthe marketing right, like you
have to market it in a way, nowthat you know mom is maybe a
little bit resistant because itmakes her feel like she's not
being a good mom.
How do you talk to her about itso that she understands that
it's actually helping her andit's a way to be a quote-unquote
good mom, uh, and even likenaming for example, dad could be
(14:54):
, or good dad, yeah, yeah,absolutely parents.
I mean parents in general youknow I I'm going back 40 years
ago.
It was probably more moms, nooffense, no offense to anybody,
but yeah, parents In general.
For parents it's beneficial,but market research and that
information helps the companyknow how to even name it.
So if you go back and you lookat baby monitors, they were
(15:18):
called nursery monitors in the1980s, nursery monitors, so it
was for your nursery, it wasn'tlike for baby.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
If you look at them now, they're called baby
monitors because you're for yournursery.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It wasn't like for baby.
If you look at them now,they're called baby monitors
because you're monitoring yourbaby.
Um, so there was a lot ofinformation that research can
provide and these consumerinsights can provide even for
leading edge technology.
It helps you with marketing, ithelps you with positioning and
understanding.
Um kind of.
It helps you build a brandstory, really, because you need
(15:44):
to understand where the parentsare coming from, what their
mindset is, and create a storythat resonates with them.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
That makes your product meaningful that you can
glean from what is going througha customer's mind and heart and
consumer's hearts and minds.
The idea of market research asa three-inch binder that you're
(16:20):
supposed to, you know,commission and then read and
then act upon, sort of goes outthe window with that For me,
because a well-done marketresearch study is also one of a
bunch of different data points.
Again, right, I mean, I did apodcast a few weeks ago with the
(16:44):
CEO of a major clothing brandwho told me that you know, I
talk to 10 or 15 customers everyquarter.
I make a point to have a Zoomcall with you know, for 20 or 30
minutes and that gives her abunch of data points.
She also does the three inchbinder market research, and
(17:08):
that's another data point.
And I think it's so important tojust you know my, my one of my
mentors, mentors when I was atPottery Barn, you know, guy Gary
Friedman.
He would say look, as a goodmerchant, your job is to have
open eyes and open ears, listento the customer, watch the
(17:29):
customer understand, and youknow.
So I think the right approachfor customer research, consumer
research and developing insightsdepends on the situation,
doesn't it?
Because what you do for a $20billion general mills is
different than for a $20 millionyou know precious moments or
(17:51):
other type of company that's,you know.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and there's lots of different ways.
Well, first of all, twodifferent questions kind of here
or thoughts.
You know, one is, yeah, youknow, market research, consumer
insights.
It is one data point and thenthere's many more pieces that
you pull together to create whatyour brand strategy is going to
be.
So it's a piece of the puzzle.
It's not the whole entiresolution necessarily In terms of
(18:17):
sort of that three-inch binder.
Well, nobody wants a three-inchbinder anymore.
Everybody wants sort of likethe fast, quick top line.
So even if you do acommissioned, a little bit more
pricey, using an outside vendortype of research study, there's
a lot of emphasis in terms ofsort of reporting being quick
and to the point and you've gotthe three-inch binder worth of
(18:39):
data behind it all.
But you're like, what's the topline?
So it's really important for mewith new clients, or with any
clients, is to just reallyhere's what we learned, here's
sort of like the key items.
That executive summary becomesmuch, much more important now
because people, you knoweverything's moving at a little
bit of a faster pace and thereare lots of data points and and
all of that.
But when you're working for asmaller organization, there's a
(19:03):
couple of different ways thatyou can do research, because I
also work I'm on the board of anonprofit and sometimes we need
to do research and there's lotsof different ways to do it.
So there is that priceyoutsourced option that we were
just talking about, where youuse an experienced research
vendor.
They recruit, they write theirquestionnaire, they moderate the
(19:23):
focus groups if you're doingqualitative and they manage the
process from soup to nuts,analyze the learnings and kind
of present you with this.
You know it's not a three-inchbinder anymore, now it's a fancy
schmancy PowerPoint with, youknow, all kinds of animations.
So there's that.
And the other end of thespectrum is what we kind of call
DIY, and that's where you knowit can be inexpensive.
(19:49):
I mean there's different thingsthat you get from the price
you're wanting.
You're going to be able to goand really get the target
audience that you want.
You can do, you know, blindstudies.
There's a lot that you can dowhen you're outsourcing and
spending the big bucks on thatkind of research, and there's a
time and a place for that.
But you know, a lot of timesI'll hear smaller companies say,
(20:09):
well, I can't afford to do anymarket research.
So for them, you know this DIYis an option.
It's just a way to at least getsome information.
It may not have statisticalsignificance.
There might be a little bit ofbias because you're talking to
people you know significance.
There might be a little bit ofbias because you're talking to
people you know.
But what you can do is you canuse your company database or a
friends and a family network.
(20:30):
So, for example, if you have adecent sized company and you're
looking for I don't knowconsumers who have a certain age
child, you just survey your ownemployees and say who has
somebody you know who haschildren.
That's that age and you kind ofuse them and you can do.
You can conduct your own focusgroups.
You try to not be biased whenyou're doing that, but you can
(20:51):
kind of do your own qualitativeresearch or you can use some
easy basic survey software likeSurveyMonkey and Google Forms
and JotForms or Qualtrics.
There's different resources outthere that if you need to do
some very inexpensive researchjust to get pointed in the right
direction, you can.
The other thing and then there'ssort of that in between, the
(21:14):
hybrid which I call DIY withhelp so you can use a research
vendor to help you recruit.
So maybe you are getting exactlythe consumer you want.
They're not affiliated withyour company, they're kind of
outside and the vendor can helpyou recruit and manage and maybe
even provide some basic data.
But you can develop thescreener, you develop the
(21:36):
questionnaire, you develop thediscussion guide and you can do
the analysis yourself.
They can just give you the datain a spreadsheet and you look
at the numbers, you can kind ofanalyze it.
So you know, the point here isthat yes, there is very
expensive research studies thatyou can do out there and you
know it's great.
I work for some big companiesand we did a lot of that.
But, as you know, when you andI, when you and I work together,
(21:57):
we're working for I was workingfor a smaller company and we
did a lot of that sort of hybridtype of situation where we
wanted those outside consumersbut we did a lot of the analysis
in-house ourselves.
So there's a solution, there'sa way to get some direction and
some consumer insights, nomatter what your budget is.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And you know, I introduced you, you know, as you
know, using the wordintentional and I used your
Taekwondo, black belt, martialartistry to illustrate that
(22:44):
point.
And if you're just veryintentional about, hey, I want
to ask some questions to which Ithink I have the answer, but I
think I might be wrong and I'mopen to maybe I've been looking
at it the wrong way, right, allthe data that I have seen
pointed me in this direction.
(23:04):
But I'm going to ask someopen-ended questions of some
other people that have anotherperspective and they may lead me
in a different direction and,hallelujah, that would be great
because I'll be smarter at theend of that process, right?
I mean, isn't that sort of theway you approach it, regardless
(23:28):
of whether you're spending 10bucks or a million bucks?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, curiosity is actuallywhat keeps businesses going,
right, if you rest on yourlaurels and businesses change,
you know, like Blockbuster, forexample.
Right, like we all went toBlockbuster stores, we all spent
Friday evenings with our kidsat Blockbuster.
Right, I mean, there's a lot,there's a lot of examples, right
(23:55):
.
So I like to think about, youknow, building brands and as
building brands that stand thetest of time while keeping up
with the times, and that's wherethat curiosity that you're
talking about leads you.
So it's really, you know,internally, you can look at the
internal information you have.
You can look at your competitorinformation, talk to your
(24:16):
retailers and generate somehypotheses or some direction.
Right, we come up with, hey, wethink this type of product line
or this type of extension mightmake sense for our business.
And then you do the research.
And it is good, you know, it'sgood to get the research,
because sometimes you don't getthe answer you wanted, and then
you have to.
You have to kind of like shiftgears or pivot a little bit and
(24:36):
say, oh okay, well, here's whatI learned from it, we can go in
this direction instead.
So yeah so there's always.
There's always some learningand you know that.
What's interesting is, you knowI was talking about how you can
do research at any sort ofbudget level and you know, if
you need to, you can maybe tryto do your own focus groups.
It can be hard to doqualitative research for your
(24:58):
own company, because you'retalking about sometimes we get,
we get an idea and we reallylove it and we want that idea to
work and we want that idea towin when we do research and we
want to bring that to fruitionand all of that.
So if you're doing your ownqualitative, sometimes it is
nice to have a third party,because they won't lead the
(25:19):
audience if you will.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
We have a tendency I mean we're all biased and then
we have a tendency to maybe askleading questions.
Exactly Leave the witness, asthey say in the court system
people to just not forget aboutresearch and using research to
get actionable insights.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, my final words, I guess, on it is that research
doesn't have to be expensive,it doesn't have to be the
three-ring binder, but listeningto your consumer any way you
can is helpful, you know, andeven if it's a product line,
that's leading edge.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It's non-negotiable.
Come on, listening to yourcustomer is non-negotiable, it
is, it is non-negotiable yeah itis?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It is, I mean, even customer satisfaction surveys
Like so.
Really, I guess here's what itis.
Throughout my 30-plus yearcareer working on some pretty
big brands and even now as aconsultant, I view market
(26:37):
research and consumer insightsas helping to create that
foundation of understanding, tounderstand what your consumer is
saying, what's going ontrend-wise in the environment,
in society, with technology, andkeep up with all of that so
that you can take that to yourproducts and your brand strategy
.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Open eyes and ears.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Open eyes and ears, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Terrific.
Thank you so much Naz.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
This was awesome.
Thanks for having me Appreciateit.
All right, thank you, take care.
All right, take care, bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO
Podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealign4resultscom.
You can find me, Benno, host ofTGO podcast, there as well.
Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O atrealignforresultscom.
(27:30):
Let's keep growing, Thank you.
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi, I'm Shanaa Safiuddin, here in sunny Chicago
today and I am a brand strategyand consumer insights slash
market research consultant.
I started my own consultancy acouple of years ago and thank
you, Benno, for having me asyour guest today.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, and I'm Benno, your host.
This is TGO Podcast and I'mexcited to just demystify really
the consumer research.
Just demystify really theconsumer research, how you do it
, how you tell your clients todo it, why you do it.
Shanaz, you and I have knowneach other for going on 10 years
(01:15):
or so, yeah, so I know you andrespect you as a marketer, but I
also know you're a veryintentional person, and the
reason I know that is becauseyou're a black belt taekwondo
martial artist, and the reason Iknow what that means is because
(01:38):
I happen to have a wife and adaughter who are that I got into
some kind of, you know, belt,number six out of 10 color belt
which I took purely forself-defense at home.
But you know, I think the factthat you're very intentional as
a person and as a professionalis worth noting.
(01:59):
And so you founded SnapkickMarketing a couple years ago.
You and I got to know eachother through board work at
Precious Moments, where you wereVP of marketing for some five
years and you were with FisherPrice 13 years total, four years
(02:24):
once, and then came back innine years another time.
Um, and you know you have agreat background with other uh,
just, very well-known brands,godiva and uh, general mills and
um, uh, top supermarkets whichI remember from my days in
upstate new york.
Um, but market research and andinsights that whole topic can be
so overwhelming.
Also misused, I find,oftentimes sort of in boardrooms
(02:48):
, as an excuse for makingdecisions hey, let's get more
data, let's get more research,sort of an excuse for analysis,
paralysis.
But getting good data and tyingthem together into helpful
insights.
You know, I think it can be assimple as having a five-minute
(03:10):
conversation with the rightperson asking the right
questions, I agree, and it canbe as extensive or expensive as
spending $50,000 or $5 millionon, you know, a long, a long,
drawn out, academic and alsosuper helpful process.
Um, talk a little bit justthrough.
Just talk a little bit throughthe differences of qualitative
(03:34):
and quantitative data.
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Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah.
So qualitative data is greatwhen you really want to see the
consumer's reactions andexperience their behavior
firsthand and really understandtheir underlying motivations.
And some examples ofqualitative research are focus
groups, which everybody's heardabout.
Focus groups there's in-depthinterviews which are kind of
one-on-ones.
You can do ethnographicresearch, which means you're
actually truly experienced theconsumer using your product or
(04:53):
going through their sort ofday-to-day process for any
particular thing that you'retrying to explore.
Quantitative research lets youdraw generalized conclusions
among a much broader audience.
So you're going to probably,you know, survey hundreds of
people.
It can have statisticalsignificance because you're
talking to so many people, alarge enough sample size where
(05:16):
you can actually draw somebigger conclusions.
So they work really well handin hand.
You're usually not going to dojust one or the other.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And well, let me ask another question On the
quantitative data you know youtalked about.
You know, maybe surveying 100people or 1000 people and
getting data points from that.
It's also just market data,right?
(05:49):
I mean just looking at abillion dollar market that buys
this type of product andconsists of those types of
demographics and psychographics,right?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, so you bring up a good point actually.
So within research, there's twobig buckets of research
Actually.
There's primary research, whichis kind of what I was just
talking about when you wereasking me about qualitative and
quantitative.
That's primary research.
It's firsthand data that youown.
So you're commissioning it,perhaps working with an outside
vendor, You're targeting it toyour specific audience, you have
(06:23):
a specific objective in mindand this research is done just
for you.
And then there is the secondbucket, which is some of the
stuff that I think you'realluding to, which is called
secondary research.
It's also called desk research,and a lot of times you'll do
desk research or secondaryresearch at the beginning of a
project, to get the lay of theland, to try to understand the
(06:45):
landscape, like you were talkingabout, sort of industry
information and things like that.
So there's a lot of freeinformation available out there
or reports that aren't tooexpensive that can shed some
light on your business question.
You know at hand at that moment.
There's syndicated data,there's retailer scan data.
So if you're already in themarketplace and you have great
relationships with yourretailers, they can give you
(07:07):
scan data for your own product.
There's trade journals,industry studies, trends,
associations like WGSN happensto be one I've used before.
They do a lot of differentreports on different demographic
segments and things.
There's reviews.
There's your customer.
So your customer is actuallycan provide secondary research
(07:28):
through their reviews, throughcustomer generated data like
social media posts and thingslike that, or influencers,
things that they say.
And then there's onlineresearch, which, of course, when
I started my career 30 plusyears ago, we didn't have online
research, but you can Googlepretty much anything and get
some pretty good information,including competitor information
(07:50):
.
So there is a lot of informationout there at your fingertips
Well, maybe I shouldn't say it'sat your fingertips.
Sometimes you have to do alittle bit of digging, but you
can get a pretty good lay of theland through secondary research
.
That helps you then sort offormulate some hypotheses, maybe
find a little bit of whitespace.
And, by the way, secondaryresearch also includes any
(08:12):
internal information you mighthave.
So companies have internalinformation from studies that
they did years ago.
They have their own internalscan data.
They have their own data ofwhat they're shipping you know
more or less of.
So there's a lot of informationlike that you can use to create
sort of that initial hypothesisor direction for where you want
to go, and then you can getinto the primary research after
(08:55):
that and there's also a lot ofyou know.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
You know is around $100, $120 million.
You know you can find resourcesthat say resources that say
that they did $4 million lastyear or they did $300 million
last year.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah Well, and you do have to.
I don't want to say take itwith a grain of salt, but I
think you need to know where tolook and what types of
information.
So, for example, when we wereworking together at Precious
Moments and I was working onsome strategy, some kind of new
strategy, new direction that wewanted to head in, you know, I
was relatively new to thecompany and one of the first
things I did was take a look atsome trade journals.
(09:31):
So you know, home and Deck is.
You know there's a.
It's a big journal that's usedin the, in the giftware industry
, and they do some of their ownresearch.
So actually they do their ownquantitative research but
because we subscribed, I couldgo in and look at their reports
and you know that that'sactually valid, factual
information.
So you do have to think aboutwhen you're online, like with
(09:56):
anything, you have to actuallymake sure that you're vetting it
a little bit so that you're notjust listening to.
You know Every bit ofinformation you find there.
But there is a decent amount ofinformation that you can get,
that is that is factual.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So my favorite quote that is sort of a knock on
market research is the famousHenry Ford quote.
If I had asked them what kindof car they wanted, they would
have said a faster horse, rightyeah.
And I think you know.
If I had asked them what kindof car they wanted, they would
have said a faster horse, rightyeah.
And I think you know Fordcompany.
(10:30):
You know, with the Model T acentury ago, and Apple Steve
Jobs and Apple, I think, areboth highly innovative companies
that got extremely importantinsights that they couldn't get
(10:51):
from asking the customer adirect question would you like
an iPhone?
Because an iPhone didn't exist.
And the customer would you like?
You know, would you like?
You know?
What kind of a car do you want?
Well, I want a faster horse,because that's the frame of
(11:13):
reference that the customer has.
So talk a little bit about, youknow, bridging that gap when
you cannot get data directlyfrom the customer and you have
to sort of you know.
I mean there were other datapoints that Steve Jobs and Henry
(11:35):
Ford found that made them thinkyou know what?
I bet you a Model T might be athing.
I bet you an iPhone might be athing.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's a, it's a really it's an
interesting point.
So you know, here's the thingabout market research it really
can do a lot of different things, not just one thing.
So it does help you understandthe consumer, and even in that
situation, you know the fast forhorse situation.
Understanding the consumer isimportant.
It helps you identifyopportunities and mitigate some
(12:05):
risks.
Now you know you're talkingabout new technology and real
innovation when you talk aboutiPhones, and you know the first
automobile and things like that.
What's interesting, though, likein the Ford example, the key
takeaway is understanding thatpeople.
What people really wanted wasto get somewhere more quickly.
(12:25):
So, instead of, oh, I want afaster horse, it's actually.
So.
There's two things actuallywhen I think about market
research slash, consumerinsights.
Market research, to me, is thedata.
Consumer insights is sort ofthe analysis and what you take
away from it.
So the consumer if they youknow, if they told Henry Ford
that you know, I want a fasterhorse, they're really telling
(12:46):
him that they want to getsomewhere more quickly.
So his job was to showconsumers that his car is, that
his car is the faster horse, youknow we can't get horses to
actually run faster, but this isyour faster horse.
So research might not, you know,you might not.
If you did, you know, if Ibefore did sort of a concept
test like we do now, you knowand show, you know, the Model T
(13:09):
or whatever, maybe it wouldn'tget good ratings.
So there's a certain amount ofrisk that you do take when
you're leading edge, when you'recoming into a whole new
category, a whole new world.
And I can give you one examplethat I didn't personally work on
but that I heard about when Ifirst entered the toy industry.
So I did spend about 16, 18years in the toy industry at a
(13:30):
couple of companies, most atFisher Price, which you
mentioned, and when I first gotto Fisher Price this was in the
90s, so it was about 10 yearsafter baby monitors were first
launched.
But I had heard stories abouthow when baby monitors were
first researched with moms, theydidn't like it at all because
(13:51):
they felt like I don't need this, because if I have this it
means I'm not being a good mom.
It's my job to watch the baby,so I'm not doing a good job.
But companies in the children'sproducts industry knew that
there was some benefit to it andthe benefit for mom is
multifold in terms of her beingable to do the dishes and still
kind of listen.
I mean back in the day it waslisten.
(14:12):
Today you can watch, but youknow back.
You know, 40 years ago you werelistening for baby's voice.
It allowed mom to not have togo into the room to check the
baby and maybe possibly wakethem up, you know.
So there were a lot of benefits.
So it's really taking the dataand understanding, going a
little bit deeper, beyond whatthey say and understanding the
(14:33):
motivation behind what they'resaying.
And also it helps in sort ofthe marketing right, like you
have to market it in a way, nowthat you know mom is maybe a
little bit resistant because itmakes her feel like she's not
being a good mom.
How do you talk to her about itso that she understands that
it's actually helping her andit's a way to be a quote-unquote
good mom, uh, and even likenaming for example, dad could be
(14:54):
, or good dad, yeah, yeah,absolutely parents.
I mean parents in general youknow I I'm going back 40 years
ago.
It was probably more moms, nooffense, no offense to anybody,
but yeah, parents In general.
For parents it's beneficial,but market research and that
information helps the companyknow how to even name it.
So if you go back and you lookat baby monitors, they were
(15:18):
called nursery monitors in the1980s, nursery monitors, so it
was for your nursery, it wasn'tlike for baby.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
If you look at them now, they're called baby
monitors because you're for yournursery.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It wasn't like for baby.
If you look at them now,they're called baby monitors
because you're monitoring yourbaby.
Um, so there was a lot ofinformation that research can
provide and these consumerinsights can provide even for
leading edge technology.
It helps you with marketing, ithelps you with positioning and
understanding.
Um kind of.
It helps you build a brandstory, really, because you need
(15:44):
to understand where the parentsare coming from, what their
mindset is, and create a storythat resonates with them.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
That makes your product meaningful that you can
glean from what is going througha customer's mind and heart and
consumer's hearts and minds.
The idea of market research asa three-inch binder that you're
(16:20):
supposed to, you know,commission and then read and
then act upon, sort of goes outthe window with that For me,
because a well-done marketresearch study is also one of a
bunch of different data points.
Again, right, I mean, I did apodcast a few weeks ago with the
(16:44):
CEO of a major clothing brandwho told me that you know, I
talk to 10 or 15 customers everyquarter.
I make a point to have a Zoomcall with you know, for 20 or 30
minutes and that gives her abunch of data points.
She also does the three inchbinder market research, and
(17:08):
that's another data point.
And I think it's so important tojust you know my, my one of my
mentors, mentors when I was atPottery Barn, you know, guy Gary
Friedman.
He would say look, as a goodmerchant, your job is to have
open eyes and open ears, listento the customer, watch the
(17:29):
customer understand, and youknow.
So I think the right approachfor customer research, consumer
research and developing insightsdepends on the situation,
doesn't it?
Because what you do for a $20billion general mills is
different than for a $20 millionyou know precious moments or
(17:51):
other type of company that's,you know.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and there's lots of different ways.
Well, first of all, twodifferent questions kind of here
or thoughts.
You know, one is, yeah, youknow, market research, consumer
insights.
It is one data point and thenthere's many more pieces that
you pull together to create whatyour brand strategy is going to
be.
So it's a piece of the puzzle.
It's not the whole entiresolution necessarily In terms of
(18:17):
sort of that three-inch binder.
Well, nobody wants a three-inchbinder anymore.
Everybody wants sort of likethe fast, quick top line.
So even if you do acommissioned, a little bit more
pricey, using an outside vendortype of research study, there's
a lot of emphasis in terms ofsort of reporting being quick
and to the point and you've gotthe three-inch binder worth of
(18:39):
data behind it all.
But you're like, what's the topline?
So it's really important for mewith new clients, or with any
clients, is to just reallyhere's what we learned, here's
sort of like the key items.
That executive summary becomesmuch, much more important now
because people, you knoweverything's moving at a little
bit of a faster pace and thereare lots of data points and and
all of that.
But when you're working for asmaller organization, there's a
(19:03):
couple of different ways thatyou can do research, because I
also work I'm on the board of anonprofit and sometimes we need
to do research and there's lotsof different ways to do it.
So there is that priceyoutsourced option that we were
just talking about, where youuse an experienced research
vendor.
They recruit, they write theirquestionnaire, they moderate the
(19:23):
focus groups if you're doingqualitative and they manage the
process from soup to nuts,analyze the learnings and kind
of present you with this.
You know it's not a three-inchbinder anymore, now it's a fancy
schmancy PowerPoint with, youknow, all kinds of animations.
So there's that.
And the other end of thespectrum is what we kind of call
DIY, and that's where you knowit can be inexpensive.
(19:49):
I mean there's different thingsthat you get from the price
you're wanting.
You're going to be able to goand really get the target
audience that you want.
You can do, you know, blindstudies.
There's a lot that you can dowhen you're outsourcing and
spending the big bucks on thatkind of research, and there's a
time and a place for that.
But you know, a lot of timesI'll hear smaller companies say,
(20:09):
well, I can't afford to do anymarket research.
So for them, you know this DIYis an option.
It's just a way to at least getsome information.
It may not have statisticalsignificance.
There might be a little bit ofbias because you're talking to
people you know significance.
There might be a little bit ofbias because you're talking to
people you know.
But what you can do is you canuse your company database or a
friends and a family network.
(20:30):
So, for example, if you have adecent sized company and you're
looking for I don't knowconsumers who have a certain age
child, you just survey your ownemployees and say who has
somebody you know who haschildren.
That's that age and you kind ofuse them and you can do.
You can conduct your own focusgroups.
You try to not be biased whenyou're doing that, but you can
(20:51):
kind of do your own qualitativeresearch or you can use some
easy basic survey software likeSurveyMonkey and Google Forms
and JotForms or Qualtrics.
There's different resources outthere that if you need to do
some very inexpensive researchjust to get pointed in the right
direction, you can.
The other thing and then there'ssort of that in between, the
(21:14):
hybrid which I call DIY withhelp so you can use a research
vendor to help you recruit.
So maybe you are getting exactlythe consumer you want.
They're not affiliated withyour company, they're kind of
outside and the vendor can helpyou recruit and manage and maybe
even provide some basic data.
But you can develop thescreener, you develop the
(21:36):
questionnaire, you develop thediscussion guide and you can do
the analysis yourself.
They can just give you the datain a spreadsheet and you look
at the numbers, you can kind ofanalyze it.
So you know, the point here isthat yes, there is very
expensive research studies thatyou can do out there and you
know it's great.
I work for some big companiesand we did a lot of that.
But, as you know, when you andI, when you and I work together,
(21:57):
we're working for I was workingfor a smaller company and we
did a lot of that sort of hybridtype of situation where we
wanted those outside consumersbut we did a lot of the analysis
in-house ourselves.
So there's a solution, there'sa way to get some direction and
some consumer insights, nomatter what your budget is.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And you know, I introduced you, you know, as you
know, using the wordintentional and I used your
Taekwondo, black belt, martialartistry to illustrate that
(22:44):
point.
And if you're just veryintentional about, hey, I want
to ask some questions to which Ithink I have the answer, but I
think I might be wrong and I'mopen to maybe I've been looking
at it the wrong way, right, allthe data that I have seen
pointed me in this direction.
(23:04):
But I'm going to ask someopen-ended questions of some
other people that have anotherperspective and they may lead me
in a different direction and,hallelujah, that would be great
because I'll be smarter at theend of that process, right?
I mean, isn't that sort of theway you approach it, regardless
(23:28):
of whether you're spending 10bucks or a million bucks?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, curiosity is actuallywhat keeps businesses going,
right, if you rest on yourlaurels and businesses change,
you know, like Blockbuster, forexample.
Right, like we all went toBlockbuster stores, we all spent
Friday evenings with our kidsat Blockbuster.
Right, I mean, there's a lot,there's a lot of examples, right
(23:55):
.
So I like to think about, youknow, building brands and as
building brands that stand thetest of time while keeping up
with the times, and that's wherethat curiosity that you're
talking about leads you.
So it's really, you know,internally, you can look at the
internal information you have.
You can look at your competitorinformation, talk to your
(24:16):
retailers and generate somehypotheses or some direction.
Right, we come up with, hey, wethink this type of product line
or this type of extension mightmake sense for our business.
And then you do the research.
And it is good, you know, it'sgood to get the research,
because sometimes you don't getthe answer you wanted, and then
you have to.
You have to kind of like shiftgears or pivot a little bit and
(24:36):
say, oh okay, well, here's whatI learned from it, we can go in
this direction instead.
So yeah so there's always.
There's always some learningand you know that.
What's interesting is, you knowI was talking about how you can
do research at any sort ofbudget level and you know, if
you need to, you can maybe tryto do your own focus groups.
It can be hard to doqualitative research for your
(24:58):
own company, because you'retalking about sometimes we get,
we get an idea and we reallylove it and we want that idea to
work and we want that idea towin when we do research and we
want to bring that to fruitionand all of that.
So if you're doing your ownqualitative, sometimes it is
nice to have a third party,because they won't lead the
(25:19):
audience if you will.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
We have a tendency I mean we're all biased and then
we have a tendency to maybe askleading questions.
Exactly Leave the witness, asthey say in the court system
people to just not forget aboutresearch and using research to
get actionable insights.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, my final words, I guess, on it is that research
doesn't have to be expensive,it doesn't have to be the
three-ring binder, but listeningto your consumer any way you
can is helpful, you know, andeven if it's a product line,
that's leading edge.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It's non-negotiable.
Come on, listening to yourcustomer is non-negotiable, it
is, it is non-negotiable yeah itis?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It is, I mean, even customer satisfaction surveys
Like so.
Really, I guess here's what itis.
Throughout my 30-plus yearcareer working on some pretty
big brands and even now as aconsultant, I view market
(26:37):
research and consumer insightsas helping to create that
foundation of understanding, tounderstand what your consumer is
saying, what's going ontrend-wise in the environment,
in society, with technology, andkeep up with all of that so
that you can take that to yourproducts and your brand strategy
.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Open eyes and ears.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Open eyes and ears, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Terrific.
Thank you so much Naz.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
This was awesome.
Thanks for having me Appreciateit.
All right, thank you, take care.
All right, take care, bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO
Podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealign4resultscom.
You can find me, Benno, host ofTGO podcast, there as well.
Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O atrealignforresultscom.
(27:30):
Let's keep growing, Thank you.
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