April 3, 2025 • 33 mins
Are you looking for a Third Growth Option ℠ ?
Dawn Grooters and Benno Duenkelsbuehler explore the challenges and strategies of marketing your own business as two business owners who help companies grow, yet struggle with their own messaging.
• Authenticity in business requires balancing personal vulnerability with professional messaging
• Your message may feel repetitive to you, but most of your audience is hearing it for the first time
• Focus on your "smallest viable audience" rather than trying to appeal to everyone
• Taking imperfect action beats waiting for perfection - Dawn launched her podcast without knowing all the technical details
• Feel the fear and do it anyway - every successful business owner pushes through uncertainty
Connect with Dawn at brokenvesselsales.com or find her on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook as Dawn Groters.
Always growing.
Benno Duenkelsbuehler
CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I am Dawn Groters from Broken Vessel Sales, the
CEO and founder of that company,and I live in Ames, Iowa.
You have to think about thatone.
That was a trick question.
I did, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hey, I'm Benno, your host of the Third Growth Option
podcast today, recording fromMexico City.
And Dawn, you and I met acouple of months ago actually
for the second time, but we hada nice conversation at a trade
association conference incharleston, south carolina.
(01:09):
Uh, you are, you were beforefounding your own business in
2020.
You were a buyer, you were asales rep.
You were a sales director andthen you found a broken vessel
in 2020.
So I I want this podcast tojust kind of be a conversation
between two business owners who,both of us, help companies grow
(01:34):
.
We do it in different ways andmethodologies and we're not
marketing agencies right, we'renot the sort of messaging,
marketing, branding folks but wecertainly have opinions about
it and we do it for our ownbusiness right.
(01:57):
So, and I will say from myperspective, certainly marketing
and branding my own business ismore difficult than helping
other companies do it, becauseit's sort of the brain surgeon
should not do brain surgery.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Right.
So how do you focus the messageof Broken Vessel without?
How do you focus it withoutstraight, jacketing it right,
Without like choking?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
it.
Yeah, yeah.
I think the way that has helpedme to do it is when I first
started the business, I wrotedown in a notebook, like the
things I wanted my business tobe about.
What were the things that, ifyou asked me about the business,
or you even just startedhearing about it, what were the
things that were going to be thefocus?
(02:49):
And so that's where I startedand it was like simple words,
like I wanted to wanted peopleto connect with more customers.
I wanted it to be about insidesales, because that's where I
had a lot of experience.
I wanted it to be about beingauthentic.
I wanted it to be aboutrelationships, because that's so
(03:12):
important.
So I wanted those like keywordsto be in my messaging, to be as
part of my brand, and thosewere things that I just kept
going after in all of thecommunications, in all of the
things, conversations that Iwould have with people.
Those were the things that Iwanted to highlight because that
was what was important for mybusiness, and so I didn't want
(03:32):
it to just like drowned outeverything, but I wanted it to
be.
Those were the focus of what mybrand and messaging was.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So it's kind of the elevator pitch, right, that we
are all taught to think of, youknow, be it conversations or
(04:09):
your website, or you also do apodcast.
But I run the risk sometimes ofso I've done the same in my
business, right?
So I've done the same in mybusiness, right?
Um?
But then I run the risk ofoverusing those words, sort of
(04:32):
like to a hammer Everythinglooks like a nail.
Does that happen to you?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You know, maybe you're you're probably I don't
know that I'm better at it CauseI don't have them.
I don't feel like that's astrong point of mine is
marketing my own businessbecause in my head I want I know
what I want everything to lookat, but I'm also so close to it
that sometimes I have a hardtime separating what I know
(04:58):
intellectually about my businessand what we do and then
explaining it to somebody whodoesn't understand all of that
of the knowledge that I have inmy head that it's hard to
sometimes for that person tounderstand without using all
those keywords.
So I, you know, I, as I tried todevelop this business and I've
(05:20):
listened to a lot of differentpeople, a lot of different
podcasts, read books, thingslike that, and they keep saying
like you have to keep thatmessage consistent, and so those
are the words that I want toalways use, because if, at you
know, 20 years down the road, Iwant them to look at Broken
Vessel Sales as arelationship-based business, I
want it to be about inside sales, and so I have to keep using it
(05:40):
, and the more and more peoplethat are interested in the
business, they're hearing it newfor the first time.
So I try not to think about itas well.
They've heard it a hundredtimes, but there's one person
out there.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, they have Because they have.
You're right, that's a goodpoint, that's.
That's a really that actually Ihadn't thought about the fact
that, um, when I, when Icriticize myself for maybe,
beating the drum over and overand over again, right to talk
about third growth option andsherpas.
And innovation meets execution.
(06:16):
You know all of whatever thewords that are in my business or
in your business or in one ofthe listeners businesses.
Um, I think what you're sayingis don't worry about repeating
yourself, because to us it seemslike repetition, but to the
listener they've never heard itbefore.
Maybe they've heard you say itonce before and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah because they're not seeing every single piece of
content that you're putting out, whether it's across social
medias, whether it's across allof your podcasts, your
conversations they're not inevery one of them.
We are in all of those things,right, but they are not, so they
might get bits and pieces, andso the bits and pieces that they
get, I want it to be consistentmessaging and them to know
(06:59):
about what broken vessel salesis what broken vessel sales is.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And then how?
How do you think about soauthenticity is?
It's unfortunately becoming abuzzword and and business, but I
think authenticity is soimportant to just kind of be
ourselves.
And you know, before we hit therecord button, I was telling
you the funny story of how Iscrewed up Bangladesh and India.
(07:27):
With somebody who has an officein Bangladesh I referred to it
as India, but at least you knowI would never edit out something
like that because it's like,yeah, I screwed up my geography
one on one.
I failed.
But so I think authenticity isso important.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Um, but we have to make sure we don't confuse the
audience by being, you know, soauthentic that you know we're,
we're, we're talking about stuffthat they don't care about,
right, yeah, yeah, well, and Ithink, you know, like, I think
there's a part of authenticityof we are real people, so we run
(08:10):
businesses, we have, you know,personal lives, whether, like
I'm a mom and a wife, and haveinterests outside of, like the
business world, and so I think Ido I do, I, do, I do.
But I think like those thingsare part of what make our
business what it is, becauseit's part of that, but so it's
(08:35):
showing a little bit of that,but it doesn't have to be every
single thing.
You know I've there's people onsocial media that I follow,
good and bad, in ways where theyshare you know, overshare or
not.
I'm typically a very privateperson with a lot of things and
I want that.
You know those are just partsof me that I don't want to share
(08:56):
with everybody in the world.
My close friends and familyknow that.
But I want to be authentic inwho I am.
So who I am in my personal lifeis the same person I am in my
business life and I want that tobe evident and I want that to
be for people.
Whoever you know whether it wasmy friends or a colleague would
be like she's my, she's thesame person.
(09:17):
I want that to be authentic.
But I also don't want it to bewhere being authentic means you
know every single detail aboutmy life that I don't want to be,
where being authentic means youknow every single detail about
my life that I don't want.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
that's not part of it either can you think of some
examples where you felt thatyour your your messaging on
social media or your podcast?
Or your website or or even in ain a sales presentation face to
(09:47):
face, right when it's workedreally well, or where it sort of
fell flat.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, so, and I I don't share so part of my story
and my and the reason I got intoinside sales is because I had
lost a child and I wouldn't behere without that circumstance
happening and I never want thatfor anybody and it was one of
the hardest thing that I havehad to go through.
But it's part of my story ofhow I got into inside sales and
(10:20):
so usually when I'm doing atraining, whether it's in front
of a bunch of people or not, Ishare that part of my story
because it wasn't something.
Being part of inside sales wasnot something that was in my
plan.
It wasn't like where I washeaded, but I got put into that
position as a way to help myfamily and go through a very
difficult time, and so I sharethat part of my story.
(10:43):
When I do presentations, whenyou know I'm explaining a little
bit about who I am, and when Ishare that part of the story, I
I always recognize that,especially if it's in a group of
people that they, someone else,has probably experienced a
significant loss in their life,whether it's a loss of a child
or something like that, and thisspring I was doing a
(11:03):
presentation like that and asI'm sharing my story and say,
you know, I say something likethat.
You know, I realize in a groupthis size you may have, you are
experienced.
Someone in this audience hasprobably experienced something
like this.
And this lady, I look out andshe's just weeping and I was
like is just weeping and I waslike she, she understands, and
(11:30):
so I um later found out that herdaughter was um experiencing
like terminal cancer, and sothose are things that sharing
part of my story is a way toshow people that, um, you can
face significant loss, you canface horrible circumstances and
tragic circumstances, but itdoesn't mean the end of who you
(11:52):
are, it doesn't define you, itdoesn't end who you.
It doesn't mean you can't havejoy in your life.
You can't have different thingslater on in your life when you
have to go through those things,and so that's part of different
things later on in your lifewhen you have to go through
those things, and so that's partof something that helps me to
connect with other people in away that I don't think, if I
didn't share that part of mystory, I would be able to
(12:14):
connect with people.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
And for you, I think it's a very special kind of
authenticity vulnerability.
Yeah Right, when you're beingso authentic that you're making
(12:39):
yourself you're putting yourselfout there.
And you're saying here I am,this thing happened, this
happened to me, and that helpsyou connect on a level that you
wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, and I don't think, you know, not everybody
is going to connect with that,and I hope not everybody does,
because you don't want that.
But I do think it shares andshows people a little bit more
of whatever challenge you face.
We all have challenges in ourlife.
They just all look different.
So maybe it's you know, itcould be you know a divorce, or
(13:15):
it could be you know the loss ofa variety of different things,
not just people in your life.
But we all go through difficultthings and so you can come out
on the other side of difficultthings and still have a
wonderful life.
It doesn't have to be perfect,because it never is, but you can
still have a wonderful lifeeven after going through a
(13:37):
really difficult thing, and so-.
So that's part of my story andI.
It's not easy to share, but itis something I share because I
want that to be hopeful forother people.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Interesting and you know once.
Well, actually, first of all,hats off to you, because I don't
think that I have in mybusiness and in my sort of
messaging and you know aboutRealign and my business, I don't
(14:15):
think I have found a story likethat to share.
Uh, what one one thing I have.
Uh, I hit the chair in thewrong place.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I saw you go down okay I think, I'm back.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I have done social media posts at different times
that were controversial, yeah,and one controversial post I
remember was after I had a verydifficult conversation, a very
(15:09):
difficult series ofconversations, with a colleague
that ended in us going separateways, um, and I wrote a post
(15:31):
about it, uh, that basically, uh, talked about you know that you
, you you never know what'sgoing through somebody else's
head and heart, uh, but, but,but you do have to deal with, um
, conflict and disagreement in away that you know, just faces
the music.
(15:53):
But I was still sort of raw whenI was writing the post and it
got.
It blew up.
It blew up right, oh goodness,it blew up right.
It had like thousands of viewsand dozens and dozens of likes
and comments and people werereally into like asking about it
(16:15):
and commenting on it.
So you know, I mean that's theone.
I mean that's one of the fewtimes when I sort of took a risk
instead of just you know,there's a lot of safe subjects
in business, but that was not asafe subject and what you're
sharing is not a safe subject.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
No, no, and I have to .
Putting yourself out there isnot easy.
We're bound to fail.
That's the reality of it.
We're bound to fail and we putourselves out there and it's
more and more people can seethat.
Um, but I believe in themessage.
I believe in what I'm doingenough and who I am, enough that
(16:56):
it's okay If, if I fail, it'sokay If not everybody agrees
with me.
It's okay If somebody doesthings differently.
It's okay If you know I Irespect if somebody has a
different opinion than me.
It's okay If we can still bekind to one another but not
agree.
And I'm getting better andbetter at that.
I would say when I firststarted I probably wasn't good
(17:19):
at that, but I think I'm.
I'm getting better and betterat just keeping focused on what
I'm doing and helping the peoplethat align well with me in the
way we do business and thenletting go the ones that don't,
and it's okay.
There's someone else for themout there that would align
better for them.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, you know, seth Godin marketing genius.
Purple Cow, I think was theconcept of the Purple Cow is in
the title of one of hisbestselling books and he talks
about the smallest viableaudience.
And smallest viable audience issomething that when I came
(18:01):
across that term many years ago,it really connected with me
because I'm like you know whatBenno Realign and the third
growth option is not foreverybody, what you're doing,
your broken vessel, inside salesand hybrid sales is not for
everybody, and that's okay.
Be a magnet that attracts thosepeople for whom it is, for whom
(18:24):
we are, for whom we are right,for whom we can provide value
and be okay with the magnet alsorepelling people.
That couldn't give you know,whatever the word is, that I'm
allowed to say on a podcast thatcouldn't give a dang about what
I do or what you do.
(18:45):
It's okay to repel them, sojust focus on the smallest
viable audience, and I thinkthat's what both your business
and my business is about right.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, and I think that's the good thing about it
is, if it's that small, viableaudience, they're the ones we're
most engaged with.
We understand their problemsthe best, we can help them the
most, and so I think that'swhere it really does make a
difference for our clients.
It's because we understand themso well and we get more
(19:18):
involved in it.
And we're not trying to serveeverybody.
We're trying to serve them andwe have the skills and expertise
to do it, but we're doing itfor those people that align well
with us on the concept of brand, because I feel brand, the word
(19:44):
brand and branding is somisunderstood.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right, I always say your logo is not your brand.
A brand is not just your logo,right, but brand is one of those
things where you ask you know10 people and you'll get 12
answers around what is brand andyou'll get 12 answers around
what is brand.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
How would you describe the broken?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
vessel brand, and maybe it's those keywords that
you used at the beginning of theconversation.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I think I do want it to be about those
keywords.
When I think about brands, soif I said Pepsi or I said Nike,
like, automatically, likeknowledge comes to my mind of
what they do and how they solveproblems.
So, like Nike, for example,when I think of that, I think of
like running shoes, athleticwear, like those are the two
(20:42):
things that if I'm going to saythat brand or my you know, my
daughter's like I want theseNike shoes.
I know exactly what she'slooking at.
Um, and so when I think of brand, I do want my brand to be about
those things, those keywords.
I want it to be aboutrelationship-based sales.
I want it to be about insidesales.
I want, um, our brand to bebuilt with integrity.
So when people hear that, hearthat brand, or hear the name
(21:04):
broken vessel sales, they'relike oh they're, they have
integrity, um.
So I want to continue to haveum build a brand that's focused
on that and align with umprojects and services and
solutions that all align withinthose, that brand.
And so that is very strategic,because that means you say no to
(21:26):
certain things, you say no tocertain ways to help people that
maybe don't align.
That is your promise yeah, andthen you can say yes to things
that do align in it, and sothat's.
You know, every time aopportunity comes up, it's like,
well, does this align with us?
And and sometimes I'm like,well, but not right now, but it
could in the future, and if we,you know, we expand and grow, it
(21:48):
could do those things.
Um, and the brand iscontinually evolving, but I
still want it focused on thosekinds of those keywords as well,
and so that's kind of what Ithink.
Brand is what, what do you,what?
What would you say?
Align, realign is for yourbranding.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Uh, I mean the promise, our, our brand promise
certainly is that we help solverevenue problems, right, that we
help companies, um, you know,midsize manufacturers and
distributors that run into somesort of revenue ceiling, right,
to break through that revenueceiling.
And so to me, the definition Imean I've actually have this, I
(22:39):
think, kind of clever three-worddefinition of brand I'll just
throw into this podcast.
It's because they say a brandis a promise and it's not
actually as important.
What I think the promises ofreal line it's really what's
important is how my clientsthink.
You know what my clients thinkthe brand promise of real line
(23:03):
is, but so it's.
It starts with a promise, right.
And if that promise so my threeword definition is compelling,
promise delivered.
If the promise is notcompelling, it's not going to
break through the clutter, right.
And if you don't deliver thatpromise, that compelling promise
(23:24):
, then who cares why?
we're talking about it right,then it's just a slogan that's a
lie, slogan that's a lie, butbut compelling promise delivered
to me is sort of.
Those three words really helpedme get my arms around what is
my brand?
What is your brand?
What is coca-cola's brand?
And the, the color red or thescript uh, the font of coca-cola
(23:52):
is not one of those three words, yeah, yeah right I love that
three-word definition, I.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I think that is really good.
Um, yeah, it's like have acompelling promise and you
deliver the results, becausethat's where you can and that
promise may be different fordifferent clients.
But, um, whatever that promiseis and you deliver it, that's
where you receive results.
That's the plan Dawn.
(24:22):
I love it, I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Are there other thoughts that you have on this
topic around messaging andmarketing our own business that
could help other business owners?
Because I think you and Italking about branding and
(24:51):
marketing and messaging is verydifferent from.
We're more users of thatconcept than practitioners of it
.
Right, we're not the marketingagency.
People Are there othermarketing and messaging thoughts
(25:16):
that are on your mind that wecould maybe share.
Yeah, Maybe talk about yourpodcast a little bit.
What have you learned in yourpodcast and has that maybe
changed?
The messaging of your brand.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well, I would say it kind of goes with kind of like
thoughts about branding andmarketing and messaging for
businesses, and the podcast too.
Because I think me starting theInside Gifted Home podcast,
that was a leap of faith againin the fact that I didn't really
(25:52):
know what I was doing.
I was going to gain someknowledge.
I obviously figured out how todo it, but it was not perfect.
It was.
I'm going to try this, I'mgoing to see how this goes it.
Um, I didn't know how to edit, Ididn't know how to do a lot of
different things when it came tothe podcast, but I was going to
try and it could have fallenflat on its face and it could
(26:13):
have also done really good.
And so my whole goal in a lotof things that I do is if it
just helps one person.
So if it, if one person willlisten and one person and the
tips I share or the topics I'mtalking about helps one person,
then it's worth it and I'll keepdoing it.
And so the podcast is a primeexample of that.
(26:33):
Of just I didn't have to do itperfectly, I didn't, it didn't
have to.
Of just I didn't have to do itperfectly, I didn't.
It didn't have to be.
I didn't have all the episodes,all hundred episodes, planned
out.
I didn't have any of that, butI was just going to.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Just the first two right, and so I had a whole list
of ideas.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I just didn't know what those were going to be, and
so it was taking imperfectaction and getting it out there
and then getting people to, um,give me feedback.
And you know what did you thinkof it?
How should I change things?
And that's what I've done thiswhole time with it is getting
feedback and just taking thatimperfect action and it's just
(27:11):
getting it out there, and it'sokay if it's real and raw and
not perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I love that, I love that, and you know I mean, I
started this podcast in theearly days of lockdown, spring
of 2020, because my wife and twodaughters and I were, you know,
all looking at each other forafter weeks and weeks and weeks
of being together and not seeinga soul, and I was like I love
(27:40):
you guys dearly, but you can'tbe the only three people that I
will ever talk to again.
So it was actually a familything where we they came up with
the idea hey, dad, why don'tyou do a podcast?
And and and the and.
The only thing I really did wascome up with sort of a frame
right like a sandbox.
The sandbox is growth stories,growth approaches.
(28:03):
Um, we'll do it by businessleaders for business leaders.
Hey, we'll.
We'll just have conversationsaround growth stories and growth
approaches and then I'll stealthe name from my day job called
Third Growth Option, and off wego and you know what it's become
.
I mean, you know, in thebeginning it was just an audio
only podcast and then, likeafter, I think last summer,
(28:28):
summer of 2024, we switched overto video.
Um, and I've learned so muchfrom the 140 or 50 uh guests
that I've had on on this podcast.
I consider myself kind of alike I know a thing or two about
growth and then I talk to otherbusiness owners and business
(28:50):
leaders and they know stuffabout growth that I have no idea
about.
Yeah, and so I think, you and Ijust I think, as business owners
, we have to put ourselves outthere within sort of the you
know sandbox that we want toplay in.
You know, I'm not going to do apodcast on medicinal herbs
because I don't know much oranything about it.
(29:12):
Yeah, because I don't know muchor anything about it.
Yeah, so I think, marketingagencies sometimes I think this
is actually true for any expert.
Any expert can intimidate therest of us.
Yes, right, if there's abranding expert or Beno as a
(29:32):
growth expert or Don as aninside sales expert.
It can be intimidating to otherpeople.
People, and stay true to you.
(29:55):
Know those five or 10 handfulof values that you hold dear and
near to your heart and just gocreate some damage.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, yeah, no, I think that's that's so true.
You have to, you have to putyourself out there and be who
you are and, uh, not let and Ithink that's another point not
let the the noise or comments oryou know, cause there you're
always going to get somenegativity.
(30:27):
I think, no matter what you dobecause someone doesn't agree
with you, but don't let thatstop you, because I think that's
where um like fear and can,fear will try to stop you a lot
of the times, and so it's don'tlet those kinds of things stop
you from being who you are andwhat you're about.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And always there.
There there's a book that uh istitled I.
I've read the book.
I love the book.
I think it's titled Feel theFear and.
Do it Anyway.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yep, yep, right, yeah , absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Did you not feel fear the first 10 podcasts?
You did, yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Well, if you go back and listen, I think you could
probably hear my voice tremblingas I'm doing them, because it
is and even I would say fiveyears ago me standing up in
front of an audience talkingabout even inside sales.
That's not something I wouldhave normally done and so, but I
have to do it scared, and everytime I get up there I'm scared,
(31:31):
but I do it anyway because Iknow it can impact one person.
If it just impacts one personand it helps them with their
sales, or it helps one personfeel confident to move forward
on something or take some kindof action, then it's worth it
for me to feel that fear and doit anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
There you go, Dawn.
If folks wanted to reach out toyou and find you one-on-one,
what's the best place?
Feel free to give your websiteaddress or how to find you on
linkedin or yes so, uh, mywebsite is brokenvesselsalescom
and that has a lot of that has.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
you can listen to the podcast there.
It has all the information onall the inside sales services we
do.
I'm on linkedin it's just dawngroaters, you can look me up
there, and then I'm also haveInstagram.
So Dawn Groters on Instagramand then on Facebook it's Dawn
Groters and then dash.
Broken vessel sales is mybusiness page there.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So yeah, perfect Lots of ways to root out.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Hey, thank you for jumping on this episode and
sharing uh uh tricks of thetrade uh and your thoughts on uh
uh marketing our own business,um.
So thank you so much for doingyeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
It was great to be part of your podcast, and much
success to you.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, same to you, don.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of TGO podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealignforresultscom.
You can find me, benno, host ofTGO podcast, there as well.
(33:17):
Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O atrealignforresultscom.
Let's keep growing, thank you.
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I am Dawn Groters from Broken Vessel Sales, the
CEO and founder of that company,and I live in Ames, Iowa.
You have to think about thatone.
That was a trick question.
I did, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hey, I'm Benno, your host of the Third Growth Option
podcast today, recording fromMexico City.
And Dawn, you and I met acouple of months ago actually
for the second time, but we hada nice conversation at a trade
association conference incharleston, south carolina.
(01:09):
Uh, you are, you were beforefounding your own business in
2020.
You were a buyer, you were asales rep.
You were a sales director andthen you found a broken vessel
in 2020.
So I I want this podcast tojust kind of be a conversation
between two business owners who,both of us, help companies grow
(01:34):
.
We do it in different ways andmethodologies and we're not
marketing agencies right, we'renot the sort of messaging,
marketing, branding folks but wecertainly have opinions about
it and we do it for our ownbusiness right.
(01:57):
So, and I will say from myperspective, certainly marketing
and branding my own business ismore difficult than helping
other companies do it, becauseit's sort of the brain surgeon
should not do brain surgery.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Right.
So how do you focus the messageof Broken Vessel without?
How do you focus it withoutstraight, jacketing it right,
Without like choking?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
it.
Yeah, yeah.
I think the way that has helpedme to do it is when I first
started the business, I wrotedown in a notebook, like the
things I wanted my business tobe about.
What were the things that, ifyou asked me about the business,
or you even just startedhearing about it, what were the
things that were going to be thefocus?
(02:49):
And so that's where I startedand it was like simple words,
like I wanted to wanted peopleto connect with more customers.
I wanted it to be about insidesales, because that's where I
had a lot of experience.
I wanted it to be about beingauthentic.
I wanted it to be aboutrelationships, because that's so
(03:12):
important.
So I wanted those like keywordsto be in my messaging, to be as
part of my brand, and thosewere things that I just kept
going after in all of thecommunications, in all of the
things, conversations that Iwould have with people.
Those were the things that Iwanted to highlight because that
was what was important for mybusiness, and so I didn't want
(03:32):
it to just like drowned outeverything, but I wanted it to
be.
Those were the focus of what mybrand and messaging was.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So it's kind of the elevator pitch, right, that we
are all taught to think of, youknow, be it conversations or
(04:09):
your website, or you also do apodcast.
But I run the risk sometimes ofso I've done the same in my
business, right?
So I've done the same in mybusiness, right?
Um?
But then I run the risk ofoverusing those words, sort of
(04:32):
like to a hammer Everythinglooks like a nail.
Does that happen to you?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You know, maybe you're you're probably I don't
know that I'm better at it CauseI don't have them.
I don't feel like that's astrong point of mine is
marketing my own businessbecause in my head I want I know
what I want everything to lookat, but I'm also so close to it
that sometimes I have a hardtime separating what I know
(04:58):
intellectually about my businessand what we do and then
explaining it to somebody whodoesn't understand all of that
of the knowledge that I have inmy head that it's hard to
sometimes for that person tounderstand without using all
those keywords.
So I, you know, I, as I tried todevelop this business and I've
(05:20):
listened to a lot of differentpeople, a lot of different
podcasts, read books, thingslike that, and they keep saying
like you have to keep thatmessage consistent, and so those
are the words that I want toalways use, because if, at you
know, 20 years down the road, Iwant them to look at Broken
Vessel Sales as arelationship-based business, I
want it to be about inside sales, and so I have to keep using it
(05:40):
, and the more and more peoplethat are interested in the
business, they're hearing it newfor the first time.
So I try not to think about itas well.
They've heard it a hundredtimes, but there's one person
out there.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, they have Because they have.
You're right, that's a goodpoint, that's.
That's a really that actually Ihadn't thought about the fact
that, um, when I, when Icriticize myself for maybe,
beating the drum over and overand over again, right to talk
about third growth option andsherpas.
And innovation meets execution.
(06:16):
You know all of whatever thewords that are in my business or
in your business or in one ofthe listeners businesses.
Um, I think what you're sayingis don't worry about repeating
yourself, because to us it seemslike repetition, but to the
listener they've never heard itbefore.
Maybe they've heard you say itonce before and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah because they're not seeing every single piece of
content that you're putting out, whether it's across social
medias, whether it's across allof your podcasts, your
conversations they're not inevery one of them.
We are in all of those things,right, but they are not, so they
might get bits and pieces, andso the bits and pieces that they
get, I want it to be consistentmessaging and them to know
(06:59):
about what broken vessel salesis what broken vessel sales is.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And then how?
How do you think about soauthenticity is?
It's unfortunately becoming abuzzword and and business, but I
think authenticity is soimportant to just kind of be
ourselves.
And you know, before we hit therecord button, I was telling
you the funny story of how Iscrewed up Bangladesh and India.
(07:27):
With somebody who has an officein Bangladesh I referred to it
as India, but at least you knowI would never edit out something
like that because it's like,yeah, I screwed up my geography
one on one.
I failed.
But so I think authenticity isso important.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Um, but we have to make sure we don't confuse the
audience by being, you know, soauthentic that you know we're,
we're, we're talking about stuffthat they don't care about,
right, yeah, yeah, well, and Ithink, you know, like, I think
there's a part of authenticityof we are real people, so we run
(08:10):
businesses, we have, you know,personal lives, whether, like
I'm a mom and a wife, and haveinterests outside of, like the
business world, and so I think Ido I do, I, do, I do.
But I think like those thingsare part of what make our
business what it is, becauseit's part of that, but so it's
(08:35):
showing a little bit of that,but it doesn't have to be every
single thing.
You know I've there's people onsocial media that I follow,
good and bad, in ways where theyshare you know, overshare or
not.
I'm typically a very privateperson with a lot of things and
I want that.
You know those are just partsof me that I don't want to share
(08:56):
with everybody in the world.
My close friends and familyknow that.
But I want to be authentic inwho I am.
So who I am in my personal lifeis the same person I am in my
business life and I want that tobe evident and I want that to
be for people.
Whoever you know whether it wasmy friends or a colleague would
be like she's my, she's thesame person.
(09:17):
I want that to be authentic.
But I also don't want it to bewhere being authentic means you
know every single detail aboutmy life that I don't want to be,
where being authentic means youknow every single detail about
my life that I don't want.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
that's not part of it either can you think of some
examples where you felt thatyour your your messaging on
social media or your podcast?
Or your website or or even in ain a sales presentation face to
(09:47):
face, right when it's workedreally well, or where it sort of
fell flat.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, so, and I I don't share so part of my story
and my and the reason I got intoinside sales is because I had
lost a child and I wouldn't behere without that circumstance
happening and I never want thatfor anybody and it was one of
the hardest thing that I havehad to go through.
But it's part of my story ofhow I got into inside sales and
(10:20):
so usually when I'm doing atraining, whether it's in front
of a bunch of people or not, Ishare that part of my story
because it wasn't something.
Being part of inside sales wasnot something that was in my
plan.
It wasn't like where I washeaded, but I got put into that
position as a way to help myfamily and go through a very
difficult time, and so I sharethat part of my story.
(10:43):
When I do presentations, whenyou know I'm explaining a little
bit about who I am, and when Ishare that part of the story, I
I always recognize that,especially if it's in a group of
people that they, someone else,has probably experienced a
significant loss in their life,whether it's a loss of a child
or something like that, and thisspring I was doing a
(11:03):
presentation like that and asI'm sharing my story and say,
you know, I say something likethat.
You know, I realize in a groupthis size you may have, you are
experienced.
Someone in this audience hasprobably experienced something
like this.
And this lady, I look out andshe's just weeping and I was
like is just weeping and I waslike she, she understands, and
(11:30):
so I um later found out that herdaughter was um experiencing
like terminal cancer, and sothose are things that sharing
part of my story is a way toshow people that, um, you can
face significant loss, you canface horrible circumstances and
tragic circumstances, but itdoesn't mean the end of who you
(11:52):
are, it doesn't define you, itdoesn't end who you.
It doesn't mean you can't havejoy in your life.
You can't have different thingslater on in your life when you
have to go through those things,and so that's part of different
things later on in your lifewhen you have to go through
those things, and so that's partof something that helps me to
connect with other people in away that I don't think, if I
didn't share that part of mystory, I would be able to
(12:14):
connect with people.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
And for you, I think it's a very special kind of
authenticity vulnerability.
Yeah Right, when you're beingso authentic that you're making
(12:39):
yourself you're putting yourselfout there.
And you're saying here I am,this thing happened, this
happened to me, and that helpsyou connect on a level that you
wouldn't otherwise be able to.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, and I don't think, you know, not everybody
is going to connect with that,and I hope not everybody does,
because you don't want that.
But I do think it shares andshows people a little bit more
of whatever challenge you face.
We all have challenges in ourlife.
They just all look different.
So maybe it's you know, itcould be you know a divorce, or
(13:15):
it could be you know the loss ofa variety of different things,
not just people in your life.
But we all go through difficultthings and so you can come out
on the other side of difficultthings and still have a
wonderful life.
It doesn't have to be perfect,because it never is, but you can
still have a wonderful lifeeven after going through a
(13:37):
really difficult thing, and so-.
So that's part of my story andI.
It's not easy to share, but itis something I share because I
want that to be hopeful forother people.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Interesting and you know once.
Well, actually, first of all,hats off to you, because I don't
think that I have in mybusiness and in my sort of
messaging and you know aboutRealign and my business, I don't
(14:15):
think I have found a story likethat to share.
Uh, what one one thing I have.
Uh, I hit the chair in thewrong place.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I saw you go down okay I think, I'm back.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I have done social media posts at different times
that were controversial, yeah,and one controversial post I
remember was after I had a verydifficult conversation, a very
(15:09):
difficult series ofconversations, with a colleague
that ended in us going separateways, um, and I wrote a post
(15:31):
about it, uh, that basically, uh, talked about you know that you
, you you never know what'sgoing through somebody else's
head and heart, uh, but, but,but you do have to deal with, um
, conflict and disagreement in away that you know, just faces
the music.
(15:53):
But I was still sort of raw whenI was writing the post and it
got.
It blew up.
It blew up right, oh goodness,it blew up right.
It had like thousands of viewsand dozens and dozens of likes
and comments and people werereally into like asking about it
(16:15):
and commenting on it.
So you know, I mean that's theone.
I mean that's one of the fewtimes when I sort of took a risk
instead of just you know,there's a lot of safe subjects
in business, but that was not asafe subject and what you're
sharing is not a safe subject.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
No, no, and I have to .
Putting yourself out there isnot easy.
We're bound to fail.
That's the reality of it.
We're bound to fail and we putourselves out there and it's
more and more people can seethat.
Um, but I believe in themessage.
I believe in what I'm doingenough and who I am, enough that
(16:56):
it's okay If, if I fail, it'sokay If not everybody agrees
with me.
It's okay If somebody doesthings differently.
It's okay If you know I Irespect if somebody has a
different opinion than me.
It's okay If we can still bekind to one another but not
agree.
And I'm getting better andbetter at that.
I would say when I firststarted I probably wasn't good
(17:19):
at that, but I think I'm.
I'm getting better and betterat just keeping focused on what
I'm doing and helping the peoplethat align well with me in the
way we do business and thenletting go the ones that don't,
and it's okay.
There's someone else for themout there that would align
better for them.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, you know, seth Godin marketing genius.
Purple Cow, I think was theconcept of the Purple Cow is in
the title of one of hisbestselling books and he talks
about the smallest viableaudience.
And smallest viable audience issomething that when I came
(18:01):
across that term many years ago,it really connected with me
because I'm like you know whatBenno Realign and the third
growth option is not foreverybody, what you're doing,
your broken vessel, inside salesand hybrid sales is not for
everybody, and that's okay.
Be a magnet that attracts thosepeople for whom it is, for whom
(18:24):
we are, for whom we are right,for whom we can provide value
and be okay with the magnet alsorepelling people.
That couldn't give you know,whatever the word is, that I'm
allowed to say on a podcast thatcouldn't give a dang about what
I do or what you do.
(18:45):
It's okay to repel them, sojust focus on the smallest
viable audience, and I thinkthat's what both your business
and my business is about right.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, and I think that's the good thing about it
is, if it's that small, viableaudience, they're the ones we're
most engaged with.
We understand their problemsthe best, we can help them the
most, and so I think that'swhere it really does make a
difference for our clients.
It's because we understand themso well and we get more
(19:18):
involved in it.
And we're not trying to serveeverybody.
We're trying to serve them andwe have the skills and expertise
to do it, but we're doing itfor those people that align well
with us on the concept of brand, because I feel brand, the word
(19:44):
brand and branding is somisunderstood.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Right, I always say your logo is not your brand.
A brand is not just your logo,right, but brand is one of those
things where you ask you know10 people and you'll get 12
answers around what is brand andyou'll get 12 answers around
what is brand.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
How would you describe the broken?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
vessel brand, and maybe it's those keywords that
you used at the beginning of theconversation.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I think I do want it to be about those
keywords.
When I think about brands, soif I said Pepsi or I said Nike,
like, automatically, likeknowledge comes to my mind of
what they do and how they solveproblems.
So, like Nike, for example,when I think of that, I think of
like running shoes, athleticwear, like those are the two
(20:42):
things that if I'm going to saythat brand or my you know, my
daughter's like I want theseNike shoes.
I know exactly what she'slooking at.
Um, and so when I think of brand, I do want my brand to be about
those things, those keywords.
I want it to be aboutrelationship-based sales.
I want it to be about insidesales.
I want, um, our brand to bebuilt with integrity.
So when people hear that, hearthat brand, or hear the name
(21:04):
broken vessel sales, they'relike oh they're, they have
integrity, um.
So I want to continue to haveum build a brand that's focused
on that and align with umprojects and services and
solutions that all align withinthose, that brand.
And so that is very strategic,because that means you say no to
(21:26):
certain things, you say no tocertain ways to help people that
maybe don't align.
That is your promise yeah, andthen you can say yes to things
that do align in it, and sothat's.
You know, every time aopportunity comes up, it's like,
well, does this align with us?
And and sometimes I'm like,well, but not right now, but it
could in the future, and if we,you know, we expand and grow, it
(21:48):
could do those things.
Um, and the brand iscontinually evolving, but I
still want it focused on thosekinds of those keywords as well,
and so that's kind of what Ithink.
Brand is what, what do you,what?
What would you say?
Align, realign is for yourbranding.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Uh, I mean the promise, our, our brand promise
certainly is that we help solverevenue problems, right, that we
help companies, um, you know,midsize manufacturers and
distributors that run into somesort of revenue ceiling, right,
to break through that revenueceiling.
And so to me, the definition Imean I've actually have this, I
(22:39):
think, kind of clever three-worddefinition of brand I'll just
throw into this podcast.
It's because they say a brandis a promise and it's not
actually as important.
What I think the promises ofreal line it's really what's
important is how my clientsthink.
You know what my clients thinkthe brand promise of real line
(23:03):
is, but so it's.
It starts with a promise, right.
And if that promise so my threeword definition is compelling,
promise delivered.
If the promise is notcompelling, it's not going to
break through the clutter, right.
And if you don't deliver thatpromise, that compelling promise
(23:24):
, then who cares why?
we're talking about it right,then it's just a slogan that's a
lie, slogan that's a lie, butbut compelling promise delivered
to me is sort of.
Those three words really helpedme get my arms around what is
my brand?
What is your brand?
What is coca-cola's brand?
And the, the color red or thescript uh, the font of coca-cola
(23:52):
is not one of those three words, yeah, yeah right I love that
three-word definition, I.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I think that is really good.
Um, yeah, it's like have acompelling promise and you
deliver the results, becausethat's where you can and that
promise may be different fordifferent clients.
But, um, whatever that promiseis and you deliver it, that's
where you receive results.
That's the plan Dawn.
(24:22):
I love it, I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Are there other thoughts that you have on this
topic around messaging andmarketing our own business that
could help other business owners?
Because I think you and Italking about branding and
(24:51):
marketing and messaging is verydifferent from.
We're more users of thatconcept than practitioners of it
.
Right, we're not the marketingagency.
People Are there othermarketing and messaging thoughts
(25:16):
that are on your mind that wecould maybe share.
Yeah, Maybe talk about yourpodcast a little bit.
What have you learned in yourpodcast and has that maybe
changed?
The messaging of your brand.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well, I would say it kind of goes with kind of like
thoughts about branding andmarketing and messaging for
businesses, and the podcast too.
Because I think me starting theInside Gifted Home podcast,
that was a leap of faith againin the fact that I didn't really
(25:52):
know what I was doing.
I was going to gain someknowledge.
I obviously figured out how todo it, but it was not perfect.
It was.
I'm going to try this, I'mgoing to see how this goes it.
Um, I didn't know how to edit, Ididn't know how to do a lot of
different things when it came tothe podcast, but I was going to
try and it could have fallenflat on its face and it could
(26:13):
have also done really good.
And so my whole goal in a lotof things that I do is if it
just helps one person.
So if it, if one person willlisten and one person and the
tips I share or the topics I'mtalking about helps one person,
then it's worth it and I'll keepdoing it.
And so the podcast is a primeexample of that.
(26:33):
Of just I didn't have to do itperfectly, I didn't, it didn't
have to.
Of just I didn't have to do itperfectly, I didn't.
It didn't have to be.
I didn't have all the episodes,all hundred episodes, planned
out.
I didn't have any of that, butI was just going to.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Just the first two right, and so I had a whole list
of ideas.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I just didn't know what those were going to be, and
so it was taking imperfectaction and getting it out there
and then getting people to, um,give me feedback.
And you know what did you thinkof it?
How should I change things?
And that's what I've done thiswhole time with it is getting
feedback and just taking thatimperfect action and it's just
(27:11):
getting it out there, and it'sokay if it's real and raw and
not perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I love that, I love that, and you know I mean, I
started this podcast in theearly days of lockdown, spring
of 2020, because my wife and twodaughters and I were, you know,
all looking at each other forafter weeks and weeks and weeks
of being together and not seeinga soul, and I was like I love
(27:40):
you guys dearly, but you can'tbe the only three people that I
will ever talk to again.
So it was actually a familything where we they came up with
the idea hey, dad, why don'tyou do a podcast?
And and and the and.
The only thing I really did wascome up with sort of a frame
right like a sandbox.
The sandbox is growth stories,growth approaches.
(28:03):
Um, we'll do it by businessleaders for business leaders.
Hey, we'll.
We'll just have conversationsaround growth stories and growth
approaches and then I'll stealthe name from my day job called
Third Growth Option, and off wego and you know what it's become
.
I mean, you know, in thebeginning it was just an audio
only podcast and then, likeafter, I think last summer,
(28:28):
summer of 2024, we switched overto video.
Um, and I've learned so muchfrom the 140 or 50 uh guests
that I've had on on this podcast.
I consider myself kind of alike I know a thing or two about
growth and then I talk to otherbusiness owners and business
(28:50):
leaders and they know stuffabout growth that I have no idea
about.
Yeah, and so I think, you and Ijust I think, as business owners
, we have to put ourselves outthere within sort of the you
know sandbox that we want toplay in.
You know, I'm not going to do apodcast on medicinal herbs
because I don't know much oranything about it.
(29:12):
Yeah, because I don't know muchor anything about it.
Yeah, so I think, marketingagencies sometimes I think this
is actually true for any expert.
Any expert can intimidate therest of us.
Yes, right, if there's abranding expert or Beno as a
(29:32):
growth expert or Don as aninside sales expert.
It can be intimidating to otherpeople.
People, and stay true to you.
(29:55):
Know those five or 10 handfulof values that you hold dear and
near to your heart and just gocreate some damage.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, yeah, no, I think that's that's so true.
You have to, you have to putyourself out there and be who
you are and, uh, not let and Ithink that's another point not
let the the noise or comments oryou know, cause there you're
always going to get somenegativity.
(30:27):
I think, no matter what you dobecause someone doesn't agree
with you, but don't let thatstop you, because I think that's
where um like fear and can,fear will try to stop you a lot
of the times, and so it's don'tlet those kinds of things stop
you from being who you are andwhat you're about.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And always there.
There there's a book that uh istitled I.
I've read the book.
I love the book.
I think it's titled Feel theFear and.
Do it Anyway.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yep, yep, right, yeah , absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Did you not feel fear the first 10 podcasts?
You did, yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Well, if you go back and listen, I think you could
probably hear my voice tremblingas I'm doing them, because it
is and even I would say fiveyears ago me standing up in
front of an audience talkingabout even inside sales.
That's not something I wouldhave normally done and so, but I
have to do it scared, and everytime I get up there I'm scared,
(31:31):
but I do it anyway because Iknow it can impact one person.
If it just impacts one personand it helps them with their
sales, or it helps one personfeel confident to move forward
on something or take some kindof action, then it's worth it
for me to feel that fear and doit anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
There you go, Dawn.
If folks wanted to reach out toyou and find you one-on-one,
what's the best place?
Feel free to give your websiteaddress or how to find you on
linkedin or yes so, uh, mywebsite is brokenvesselsalescom
and that has a lot of that has.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
you can listen to the podcast there.
It has all the information onall the inside sales services we
do.
I'm on linkedin it's just dawngroaters, you can look me up
there, and then I'm also haveInstagram.
So Dawn Groters on Instagramand then on Facebook it's Dawn
Groters and then dash.
Broken vessel sales is mybusiness page there.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So yeah, perfect Lots of ways to root out.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Hey, thank you for jumping on this episode and
sharing uh uh tricks of thetrade uh and your thoughts on uh
uh marketing our own business,um.
So thank you so much for doingyeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
It was great to be part of your podcast, and much
success to you.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, same to you, don.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of TGO podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealignforresultscom.
You can find me, benno, host ofTGO podcast, there as well.
(33:17):
Just email Benno B-E-N-N-O atrealignforresultscom.
Let's keep growing, thank you.
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