February 20, 2025 • 29 mins
Are you looking for a Third Growth Option ℠ ?
We explore how to approach and engage in uncomfortable conversations that can ultimately lead to valuable insights and business growth. Through thoughtful discussion with Cody Seaber, we highlight the importance of understanding human psychology, building trust, and embracing tension in communication.
• Discussing the impact of discomfort on business conversations
• Challenging the status quo for growth opportunities
• Understanding diverse perspectives through the sphere of reference
• Acknowledging and owning conflict and tension in discussions
• Strategies for building and maximizing trust with clients
• Emphasizing authenticity in professional interactions
• Navigating the timing of conversations for effective outcomes
Visit our website reALIGNforResults.com to learn more about how we can assist you in navigating uncomfortable topics for business growth and success.
Always growing.
Benno Duenkelsbuehler
CEO & Chief Sherpa of (re)ALIGN
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey guys, Cody Sieber , partner of OSPI Group.
I am currently in Hawaii.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And I am, benno, the podcast host of Third Growth
Option Podcast, and I am superexcited to have you on this
podcast, cody.
You and I have gotten to knoweach other at various industry
events over the last severalyears and we kind of happened
upon, kind of stumbled on thistopic that I'm pretty excited
(01:02):
about having a little 20,30-minute conversation with you
about it's because I think itcan help a lot of listeners and
viewers.
And the topic is around how doyou open uncomfortable
conversations that can uncoverthe valuable?
How do you open theuncomfortable to uncover the
(01:23):
valuable, right?
How do you open theuncomfortable to uncover the
valuable?
Uh, you and I both serve similarcustomer types mid-sized
manufacturers, brands,distributors but we have very
different services, right.
So the ospy group offers a freeservice, uh, paid through a
percent of the savings that youguys negotiate on freight
(01:46):
contracts.
So if a brand, a vendor, acompany spends, you know, say, a
half a million dollars on theirfreight with UPS and FedEx and
you can shave $100,000 off thatexpense, you get paid a
percentage of that savings,right?
(02:07):
So there's no out-of-pocket foryour customers in that sense.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's a free service, realign.
You know we offer a paidservice.
You know we have retainers, wehave success fees, but there is
an upfront investment and thenthere's huge leverage, you know,
in the middle and the end ofour engagements for our clients.
But to me, regardless of youknow the offer, whether it's a
(02:33):
product or a service, whetheryou're selling to a buyer or a
CEO in your business and in mybusiness, we are usually looking
to replace a competitor.
We're usually, you know itoften includes making people
(02:59):
uncomfortable.
I mean even if it's justuncomfortable with the change,
right with.
I mean even if it's justuncomfortable with the change
right Now.
You know they're using, in yourcase, the UPS and the FedEx
contract in a different way.
In my case, you know we'readding adjacent categories,
we're building new businesses,blah, blah, blah.
So there's always changeinvolved, there's always some
discomfort involved.
(03:20):
Do you find that?
And then, and that change anddiscomfort is, you know, leads
to uncomfortable conversationsat some point.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, more times than not right, you're challenging
the status quo.
You're challenging.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Why are they?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
bringing, whether you're changing the way they've
thought about something,managing a vendor differently,
reevaluating business lines orbusiness units.
I mean, they're not hiringBusinesses, are not hiring a
vendor to come in and do theexact same thing they're already
doing for an increase of cost.
(04:03):
So you're challenging a littlebit right and we all kind of we
bounce back and forth on how tocommunicate that change, but
you're challenging the statusquo.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Very well put.
So to me, that conversation,that uncomfortable conversation
that challenges the status quoin my mind, becomes easier if
you always start with the end inmind.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And work your way back and then work your way
backwards, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And, to me, starting with the end in mind is always
be mindful about.
Why are we here?
What's the goal?
Right, the goal is to, as youjust said, challenge the status
quo, make the customer happier,blah, blah, blah.
You know, whatever the goal Imean to me, being very
intentional about starting withthe end in mind helps to address
the uncomfortable, makes theuncomfortable easier.
(05:00):
How do you see that?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I agree.
I think right when you talkabout the uncomfortable is,
you're dealing with, I would say, the greatest variable that
exists, and it's the human being.
So, understanding the psychologybehind how people think and how
different people think, andthen working through what our
(05:23):
end goal is when bringingforward our solutions, the types
of people we want to work withand the types of solutions that
our businesses bring, and then,instead of starting, beginning
to end, that's where, as you'resaying and I love it, and we
didn't even plan this, but I100% agree with you it's working
that communication backwards.
So, looking at the end goalfirst, and then how do we put
the roadmap together?
(05:44):
Where does the conversationstart?
Who are the people we want tohave involved in this
conversation?
What are we trying to?
If, in a potential conflict, ifwe're trying to resolve that
(06:13):
conflict, maybe flying off therails in the very beginning
doesn't get us to the end goalright, and so it's being more
attentive instead of just beingreactive to a situation.
It's looking at what are wetrying to accomplish here and
how do we put together a plan togo and do that?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And you know, I love that you bring up the word
conflict here, right, whenyou're challenging the status
quo, when you're, you know,creating discomfort, there's
conflict and there's tension,and I always say that there's.
(06:55):
You know, whenever you havemore than two people in,
whenever there are two or morepeople in the room, you're going
have tension.
Right, our job is to sort ofmake sure it's healthy tension,
right?
Um, do you so?
I think about tension anddiscomfort as something to own,
not you?
Yeah, minimize the discomfort,yeah, minimize the tension, but
you.
But at the end of the day, Ithink you have to own the
tension and the discomfort.
How do you see that?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I think, owns a good word.
I'd like you to maybe evenelaborate on that.
I I look at it more so asacknowledge, right, Maybe it's
the same saying we're using it.
I think we're all going to bethinking differently, right?
I go back to kind of that humanvariable is we all have a
different what I would call toin a close friend of mine, we
always called it the sphere ofreference, right.
(07:36):
So, like where I grew up and whomy parents are, who my parents
aren't, who it's going toinfluence my decision, right?
So my sphere of reference looksdifferent and so it's
acknowledging that there'slikely.
You know, within conversation,especially in business, when you
are doing things likechallenging the status quo,
(07:57):
don't go into a situation evenif you think you have the
greatest value proposition,don't go with rose colored
glasses thinking that everybodyelse is sipping the same
Kool-Aid that you are.
Obviously, I'm biased withinthe work that we do and you're
biased within the work that wedo.
That you do right.
But if we come in, kind ofassume positive intent about the
(08:17):
person that you're sittingacross with or sitting with, but
then acknowledge that concernsare like getting ahead of it,
right, it's like setting anupfront contract establishing
there's probably going to behesitations.
There's probably, you know, attimes.
You know some of these thingsmight sound too good.
Ability to communicate, resolve, agree, disagree within a safe
(08:49):
space is, I think, where thenultimately growth happens.
Because there's two thoughtsright, it's like conflict can
even can turn either nasty, ordisagreements can turn nasty.
Or there's the thoughts of, hey, let's just kind of pretend
this doesn't happen, this isn'treally here, and let's just go
on, and then what happens isthat creates a snowball effect
down the road and and conflictand tension can also be
(09:13):
constructive, productiveabsolutely yeah, it doesn't have
to have a negative connotationthat that's what I call healthy
(09:38):
tension.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
yeah, um, interesting .
So, um, yeah, I mean, they're abig company, so the amount of
money that they're spending onUPS and FedEx budget is so big
that the savings you were ableto give them was seven figures
north of a million dollars.
Yet one of the executives wasvery hesitant about entering
(10:03):
into a relationship that washugely beneficial to them, right
, because this executive wasafraid of maybe being
embarrassed by oh, maybe Ishould have found that instead
of Cody Talk a little bit aboutthat situation and how you
(10:24):
overcame that discomfort level.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, no, that's a great example and in our line of
work that tends to happen moretimes than not Again, kind of
challenging the status quo.
Companies have managed thesevendor costs one way for a very
long time and we're coming inand we're giving a different
sphere of reference, right.
So it's outside of how theymanage this vendor or vendors,
(10:54):
you know, differently than howthey've managed them previously.
And it's hard.
There's a lot of psychologythere.
Fedex and EPS tend to, you know,communicate to their clients.
They already have the bestrates and you know we could kind
of go through that rabbit holetoo, but it is there, you know,
if we come and identify a sevenfigure opportunity, right,
relative to that business'sspend, it's what?
(11:17):
Well, what have I been doing?
Or maybe the externalperception of this, you know, is
somebody going to thinkdifferent of me because we've
maybe left an opportunity on thetable?
How has that cost the businessmoney?
Fear, loss of control is a bigthing, but within our space we
do deal with what we call theDIY mentality where it's, you
(11:42):
know, kind of want to do it, doit myself right, I don't need.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I don't need better.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Why am I hired?
Why am I hiring somebody withinthe respects of what I can do?
And so, again, that's where,just having a good, healthy
conversation, this actually cameup, that it, it was
communicated to me uh from, uh,from the example we discussed
where it was.
I don't want to be, I don'twant anybody to look at me
differently because of thisopportunity.
(12:10):
So, and there's two peoplethere, right, it's like hey,
there's the ones that want tokind of accept where they're
really, really good and whybusinesses like ours exist and
they partner with us and wepartner with them and we drive
great savings, or it's the.
I'd rather just kind of letthis.
I don't want to brush thisunder the rug.
Maybe this will come back andit'll get handled on its own
(12:31):
down the road.
And there was, yeah, there wasa change of personnel in that
specific position that you know.
We were able to wrap up thatproject in a pretty short
timeframe, but it definitelyjust took.
It took a different mindset forcollaboration.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Give me your thoughts around.
You know how, how do you, howdo you build trust, um, and then
maximize that trust?
Uh, and, and I'll I'll kick itoff a little bit for you,
because you and I have, like Isaid at the onset here, met each
(13:10):
other at industry events overthe last two or three years or
so and we've had, you know,casual conversations in you know
hallways, at water coolers ofyou know trade shows and trade
conferences and that kind ofthing.
And, like any two strangers,you and I met each other and we
(13:37):
had certain perceptions of eachother, right, like you're
younger than me.
So I'm like, wow, he's ayounger guy and I'm older than
you.
So I'm like, wow, he's ayounger guy and I'm older than
you.
You built trust with me overthe years.
Well, I'm going to ask you, howdid you build trust with me?
(14:00):
I obviously have my opinionsabout that, but I'd be curious.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, I think it's.
I mean, there's a few things onhow to build trust right.
It's, ultimately, it's a desireto operate with a level of
integrity, high level ofintegrity, that you're probably
innately born with or it'sdeveloped as a young age right,
like that's a component therewhere trust is important to you,
the things you say and thethings you do and the people you
(14:27):
hang around with, like there's,you know, the root word of
integrity is integer, whichmeans whole.
So like those things areconsistent, right.
So trust is something I upholdreally highly and you know,
that's kind of like an internalperspective, from an external
perspective, I think, or from anexternal perspective.
Right, it's not expecting toomuch from other people, it's not
(14:50):
thinking about yourselfconstantly, it's thinking about
the people that you're around.
And then I think, as it relatesto even the conversations that
we've had and the time thatwe've spent together, is its
consistency and that kind ofties back into, I would say, the
sales component is it's notlooking and expecting these
quick wins, right, attending oneshow, okay, I've got to get
(15:11):
mine, how can I benefit?
It didn't work out, so then younever hear from me again.
And what's really cool withinthis space is how intimate so
many of the businesses are andhow collaborative I feel like
they are versus other industriesthat we work in as well, where
you know my second, third,fourth time attending you know
(15:32):
some of the markets and thingslike that.
It's like, oh hey, you're backagain, right, and I was
surprised by that that peoplewere acknowledging Now, I've
seen you a couple of timesaround, you know it's
understanding this what we dofor our clients and the
relationships we have with ourclients is extremely important
to both the business but alsothe people in the business.
(15:53):
Right, that's what our businessis.
Our business is comprised ofreally, really great people.
That's what makes the brand,that's what makes the business
is the people right, and ourcustomers and our clients and
our friends are the same way,and so I think it's having a
level of consistency.
That's what builds trust.
Right, there's the saying.
You know it takes like 10 moreinteractions to basically kind
(16:17):
of overcome a bad firstimpression, right, and so you
have to kind of build theselittle foundational building
blocks, gaining what I refer toas relational equity, right,
right, and that compounds overtime, naturally.
That's the thing you just haveto wait on, because you can't
slow down time.
(16:37):
You can't speed up time, youjust have to be patient.
I think that's what ultimatelybuilds trust, right?
So every interaction when youmeet with somebody, you're
building a little building blockOne slip you could really ruin
that right.
So every interaction when youmeet with somebody, you're
building a little building blockOne slip you could really ruin
that right.
But I think that's whereoperating and integrity and
having that level of consistencyis really important.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And I love the saying that it takes years to build
trust and it takes minutes todestroy it.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yes, exactly minutes to destroy it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yes, exactly, true, right, yeah and um, and actually
something that you know.
If you, if you try to get upevery morning with integrity and
with thinking about you, knowthe end in mind and what's good
for the customer, I thinkwhenever you think about
(17:38):
anything you do in terms of thecustomer, you'll be right nine
and a half times out of ten.
Obviously, you can't give awaythe store right.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So, yeah, I think building and maximizing trust
definitely is about consistency,definitely is about being, you
know, customer focused.
I think that's what most peopleare selling, right?
I mean, I know selling can kindof have bad connotation Not
everybody loves sales reps,right.
But so much of the work that wedo and I would assume in your
line too, right Kind of thatconsulting aspect is really
you're selling trust and therejust happens to then be a
(18:14):
service associated with that,right?
Because if they can't trust youto deliver on what they're
signing up for, it doesn'treally matter how great your
product is.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You know it's interesting.
You use the word consulting,which you know I always use the
word.
I mean we describe ourselves asSherpas instead of as
consultants, for the simplereason that, while there are
some great consultants in theworld, in our industry there are
(18:45):
also you always joke when, when, uh, when I, when I founded
realign in 2009, during theglobal crisis, financial crisis,
the us had gained somethinglike 10 million unemployed
people 2008, 2009, which meantthat they had gained nine
million consultants.
Sure, everybody's?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
right, people that were just between jobs and so,
yeah, what do you do?
Which meant that they hadgained 9 million consultants.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Sure, everybody's a consultant, right?
People that were just betweenjobs and so what do you do?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I don't have a job.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Oh no, I'm a consultant, totally so the word
has sort of been dragged throughthe mud and has been abused and
has been given a taint ofmistrust, right?
So we, we, sometimes I think,uh, it's you know, sort of going
(19:34):
back to, you have to start withthe end in mind.
Um, you know, in your businessit's you know, the end is, hey,
we're trying to save you money,we're trying to help you spend
you know less on this necessaryexpense.
Uh, in my business, uh, we'retrying to help you build a new
(19:55):
adjacent category, productcategory, access, a new channel
of distribution and add seven oreight figures of revenues to
your business.
Uh, which, by the way, requiresexecution.
It requires more than justputting that idea on a
PowerPoint and then praying.
You also have to do it.
Any examples of where sort ofbad examples maybe, where you
(20:21):
have tried to open theuncomfortable to uncover the
valuable, it just it wentsideways oh, I think a lot of
times it goes sideways.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
It's just how you deliver it right and life's kind
of just a learning experienceright uh, I, I tend to lack
patience and I and I and I kindof fool myself to think
everybody's going to think likeme, which I think is most
people's guess.
(20:52):
You try to put yourself insomebody else's shoes, you're
going to fall short because youjust again don't know their
sphere of reference.
Plenty of examples where I'vemaybe jumped the gun, trying to
go back to a decision makerafter maybe the opportunity was
delegated somewhere else,because I've already seen this
happening a certain way throughhundreds of other examples, I
think, allowing things to playthemselves out and asking for
(21:16):
permission to go back ifsomething goes sideways right,
because every business operatesdifferently.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I've worked with you have to do it at the customer's
time, right, it's on their time,not our time.
Yep, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And that's hard right when, within our line of work,
you see companies missing out ona lot of money.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Let's do it now.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's you know.
We say you know.
I just got off a call earlierthis morning.
The question was asked hey,what's the difference between
hiring you now and hiring you inApril?
That's a loaded question for us.
There's a lot of advantages tonow versus April.
I'm not going to push an agendahere.
(21:59):
If April makes you feel morecomfortable, that's great.
The savings opportunity on thetable is, you know, six figures.
You lose five months.
So that's so.
It's without me having, youknow, kind of an emotional
opinion on the difference.
Here's the math problem.
This is what you're at.
Does it make sense, right, Ifwe start the project earlier
(22:21):
versus later?
This is just the math problemthat you're going to be
overpaying during the time frame.
So that's what we're trying todo is equip our clients with
really the information to makebetter business decisions, so
that it doesn't become asemotional as maybe it has been
(22:41):
previously.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But trust me, I make plenty of mistakes, Fennel.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, look, we all have, and that's okay.
Because I make mistakes, myclients make mistakes, you make
mistakes, all.
Because I make mistakes, myclients make mistakes, you make
mistakes, all human beings makemistakes, and it's never about
(23:12):
trying to be perfect, it'salways about keeping the bigger
point in the picture.
So we don't lose the biggerpoint in the picture, so we
don't lose the bigger point, umand uh, you know, here we're
talking about how do you buildtrust?
How do you, um, address theelephant in the room, right?
(23:37):
Um, how do you accept and owndiscomfort, and accept and own
the fact that each human beingsees things differently because
of what you call their sphere ofreference, right?
(23:59):
Um, any other thoughts that you, that, uh, you want to throw
into the conversation here, or?
Uh, this has been a really goodconversation, I?
I appreciate you jumping onthis call yeah, I think, just be
authentic.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think, you know, as far as it relates as you kind
of like, there's a level thereof trying to strike the balance
between you know, addressing theuncomfortable, but, I think,
also do what's authentic to you,because then again that's the
quickest way, I think, to losetrust, right, right, if you're
(24:36):
going to try to do things or bethings that you're not, is then
you, you really, because again,going back to integer whole,
right, is you should be the same.
You know it's not.
Integrity is kind of thought ofas you know, doing the right
thing when nobody's looking,which is part of it, right, but
it's being the same personreally in all aspects of your
life, right.
So there's a conflict betweenyou.
(24:56):
Know, if something comes outthat doesn't align with, maybe,
how you've addressed things inthe business world as you do
your professional world, oroutside, in some of these water
coolers or whatever it is, thatstuff's going to end up catching
up to you.
Like you mentioned, it takesminutes to really lose that
trust.
I think that doesn't mean belike now we're kind of in the
world I don't want to go off onsome huge tangent where it's
(25:18):
overly authentic, where you'rekind of pushing your agenda, but
it's like authentic, whereyou're kind of pushing your
agenda, but it's like just justbe comfortable in your own skin.
That would be my encouragement,right and just, and then allow
other people to make thedecision on whether or not they
want to engage things withintheir timeline, being respectful
there, um, you know, and justkind of letting them come back
full circle to, um you know, avalue proposition that you may
(25:40):
have and if not, then just berespectful within you know,
allow there to be no's andrespect people's no's and those
types of things.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Respect the no.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Respect the no yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Right right, right, right right.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you said no's.
Oh, no, yeah, respect the noN-O, got it.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
You know it's yeah, the authenticity and consistency
and just being comfortable inyour skin.
I can tell you that has becomeeasier for me as I've grown
older.
When I was in my 20s and 30s, Iwas just like go, go, go go.
(26:28):
I got to make a name for myselfBetter, faster, cheaper.
I was just sort of revving theengine all the time to the point
where, you know, and I thinkpeople forgive you know, a 25
and a 35 year old guy, that morethan a 50 or 60 year old person
(26:49):
, but that's been an interestingpart for me of of podcasting.
You know, I did the firsthundred plus episodes were we're
audio only and and, and thefirst dozen I was super
uncomfortable and I've learnedto become more comfortable.
And then, you know, we said,hey, let's do, let's do video,
(27:11):
and I was, oh what?
Oh, my god, I, I, you know, uh,I, you know I have to poker
face.
I have to use my poker facemore often because I I people
always know what I'm thinkingLike.
If I think somebody saidsomething really stupid, you
know I'll probably be the onerolling my eyes, which you know.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I guess I do it on podcasts too, but you, probably
get to meet a lot of differentpeople, which is, I think, a
huge benefit.
Right, and again, all having adifferent sphere of reference,
right, right.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Cody, this was a great conversation.
If folks wanted to reach out toyou, you know, just on on on
anything, but I think anyanybody who has a you know, who
spends money with UPS and FedEx,they should definitely call
reach out to you.
What, uh, do you want to giveyour um website address or email
(28:06):
address?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
yeah, no, you can go to the website.
Uh, ospiegroupcom.
A-u-s-p-i groupcom.
Uh, my email is quite simplecody at ospie group, so I can
also ben if you, when you sharethis, if you want to share that.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Terrific, awesome.
Here it is.
Thank you so much for jumpingon this.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, thanks for the invite.
We'll see you soon.
Take care, Bye friend.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO
Podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealign4resultscom.
You can find me, Benno, host ofTGO Podcast, there as well.
Just email, benno B-E-N-N-O atrealign4resultscom.
(28:56):
Let's keep growing.
Hey, welcome to the Third Growth Officer podcast,
where we talk about all thingsgrowth, yes, even and especially
those hard parts where you shedsome skin and pick yourself up
by the bootstraps.
Hey, I'm Benno Dunkelspüler,growth Sherpa and OG hashtag
growth nerd.
We're on a mission to redefinesuccess inside and outside the
(00:23):
business, one TGO episode at atime.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey guys, Cody Sieber , partner of OSPI Group.
I am currently in Hawaii.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And I am, benno, the podcast host of Third Growth
Option Podcast, and I am superexcited to have you on this
podcast, cody.
You and I have gotten to knoweach other at various industry
events over the last severalyears and we kind of happened
upon, kind of stumbled on thistopic that I'm pretty excited
(01:02):
about having a little 20,30-minute conversation with you
about it's because I think itcan help a lot of listeners and
viewers.
And the topic is around how doyou open uncomfortable
conversations that can uncoverthe valuable?
How do you open theuncomfortable to uncover the
(01:23):
valuable, right?
How do you open theuncomfortable to uncover the
valuable?
Uh, you and I both serve similarcustomer types mid-sized
manufacturers, brands,distributors but we have very
different services, right.
So the ospy group offers a freeservice, uh, paid through a
percent of the savings that youguys negotiate on freight
(01:46):
contracts.
So if a brand, a vendor, acompany spends, you know, say, a
half a million dollars on theirfreight with UPS and FedEx and
you can shave $100,000 off thatexpense, you get paid a
percentage of that savings,right?
(02:07):
So there's no out-of-pocket foryour customers in that sense.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's a free service, realign.
You know we offer a paidservice.
You know we have retainers, wehave success fees, but there is
an upfront investment and thenthere's huge leverage, you know,
in the middle and the end ofour engagements for our clients.
But to me, regardless of youknow the offer, whether it's a
(02:33):
product or a service, whetheryou're selling to a buyer or a
CEO in your business and in mybusiness, we are usually looking
to replace a competitor.
We're usually, you know itoften includes making people
(02:59):
uncomfortable.
I mean even if it's justuncomfortable with the change,
right with.
I mean even if it's justuncomfortable with the change
right Now.
You know they're using, in yourcase, the UPS and the FedEx
contract in a different way.
In my case, you know we'readding adjacent categories,
we're building new businesses,blah, blah, blah.
So there's always changeinvolved, there's always some
discomfort involved.
(03:20):
Do you find that?
And then, and that change anddiscomfort is, you know, leads
to uncomfortable conversationsat some point.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, more times than not right, you're challenging
the status quo.
You're challenging.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Why are they?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
bringing, whether you're changing the way they've
thought about something,managing a vendor differently,
reevaluating business lines orbusiness units.
I mean, they're not hiringBusinesses, are not hiring a
vendor to come in and do theexact same thing they're already
doing for an increase of cost.
(04:03):
So you're challenging a littlebit right and we all kind of we
bounce back and forth on how tocommunicate that change, but
you're challenging the statusquo.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Very well put.
So to me, that conversation,that uncomfortable conversation
that challenges the status quoin my mind, becomes easier if
you always start with the end inmind.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And work your way back and then work your way
backwards, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And, to me, starting with the end in mind is always
be mindful about.
Why are we here?
What's the goal?
Right, the goal is to, as youjust said, challenge the status
quo, make the customer happier,blah, blah, blah.
You know, whatever the goal Imean to me, being very
intentional about starting withthe end in mind helps to address
the uncomfortable, makes theuncomfortable easier.
(05:00):
How do you see that?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I agree.
I think right when you talkabout the uncomfortable is,
you're dealing with, I would say, the greatest variable that
exists, and it's the human being.
So, understanding the psychologybehind how people think and how
different people think, andthen working through what our
(05:23):
end goal is when bringingforward our solutions, the types
of people we want to work withand the types of solutions that
our businesses bring, and then,instead of starting, beginning
to end, that's where, as you'resaying and I love it, and we
didn't even plan this, but I100% agree with you it's working
that communication backwards.
So, looking at the end goalfirst, and then how do we put
the roadmap together?
(05:44):
Where does the conversationstart?
Who are the people we want tohave involved in this
conversation?
What are we trying to?
If, in a potential conflict, ifwe're trying to resolve that
(06:13):
conflict, maybe flying off therails in the very beginning
doesn't get us to the end goalright, and so it's being more
attentive instead of just beingreactive to a situation.
It's looking at what are wetrying to accomplish here and
how do we put together a plan togo and do that?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And you know, I love that you bring up the word
conflict here, right, whenyou're challenging the status
quo, when you're, you know,creating discomfort, there's
conflict and there's tension,and I always say that there's.
(06:55):
You know, whenever you havemore than two people in,
whenever there are two or morepeople in the room, you're going
have tension.
Right, our job is to sort ofmake sure it's healthy tension,
right?
Um, do you so?
I think about tension anddiscomfort as something to own,
not you?
Yeah, minimize the discomfort,yeah, minimize the tension, but
you.
But at the end of the day, Ithink you have to own the
tension and the discomfort.
How do you see that?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I think, owns a good word.
I'd like you to maybe evenelaborate on that.
I I look at it more so asacknowledge, right, Maybe it's
the same saying we're using it.
I think we're all going to bethinking differently, right?
I go back to kind of that humanvariable is we all have a
different what I would call toin a close friend of mine, we
always called it the sphere ofreference, right.
(07:36):
So, like where I grew up and whomy parents are, who my parents
aren't, who it's going toinfluence my decision, right?
So my sphere of reference looksdifferent and so it's
acknowledging that there'slikely.
You know, within conversation,especially in business, when you
are doing things likechallenging the status quo,
(07:57):
don't go into a situation evenif you think you have the
greatest value proposition,don't go with rose colored
glasses thinking that everybodyelse is sipping the same
Kool-Aid that you are.
Obviously, I'm biased withinthe work that we do and you're
biased within the work that wedo.
That you do right.
But if we come in, kind ofassume positive intent about the
(08:17):
person that you're sittingacross with or sitting with, but
then acknowledge that concernsare like getting ahead of it,
right, it's like setting anupfront contract establishing
there's probably going to behesitations.
There's probably, you know, attimes.
You know some of these thingsmight sound too good.
Ability to communicate, resolve, agree, disagree within a safe
(08:49):
space is, I think, where thenultimately growth happens.
Because there's two thoughtsright, it's like conflict can
even can turn either nasty, ordisagreements can turn nasty.
Or there's the thoughts of, hey, let's just kind of pretend
this doesn't happen, this isn'treally here, and let's just go
on, and then what happens isthat creates a snowball effect
down the road and and conflictand tension can also be
(09:13):
constructive, productiveabsolutely yeah, it doesn't have
to have a negative connotationthat that's what I call healthy
(09:38):
tension.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
yeah, um, interesting .
So, um, yeah, I mean, they're abig company, so the amount of
money that they're spending onUPS and FedEx budget is so big
that the savings you were ableto give them was seven figures
north of a million dollars.
Yet one of the executives wasvery hesitant about entering
(10:03):
into a relationship that washugely beneficial to them, right
, because this executive wasafraid of maybe being
embarrassed by oh, maybe Ishould have found that instead
of Cody Talk a little bit aboutthat situation and how you
(10:24):
overcame that discomfort level.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, no, that's a great example and in our line of
work that tends to happen moretimes than not Again, kind of
challenging the status quo.
Companies have managed thesevendor costs one way for a very
long time and we're coming inand we're giving a different
sphere of reference, right.
So it's outside of how theymanage this vendor or vendors,
(10:54):
you know, differently than howthey've managed them previously.
And it's hard.
There's a lot of psychologythere.
Fedex and EPS tend to, you know,communicate to their clients.
They already have the bestrates and you know we could kind
of go through that rabbit holetoo, but it is there, you know,
if we come and identify a sevenfigure opportunity, right,
relative to that business'sspend, it's what?
(11:17):
Well, what have I been doing?
Or maybe the externalperception of this, you know, is
somebody going to thinkdifferent of me because we've
maybe left an opportunity on thetable?
How has that cost the businessmoney?
Fear, loss of control is a bigthing, but within our space we
do deal with what we call theDIY mentality where it's, you
(11:42):
know, kind of want to do it, doit myself right, I don't need.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I don't need better.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Why am I hired?
Why am I hiring somebody withinthe respects of what I can do?
And so, again, that's where,just having a good, healthy
conversation, this actually cameup, that it, it was
communicated to me uh from, uh,from the example we discussed
where it was.
I don't want to be, I don'twant anybody to look at me
differently because of thisopportunity.
(12:10):
So, and there's two peoplethere, right, it's like hey,
there's the ones that want tokind of accept where they're
really, really good and whybusinesses like ours exist and
they partner with us and wepartner with them and we drive
great savings, or it's the.
I'd rather just kind of letthis.
I don't want to brush thisunder the rug.
Maybe this will come back andit'll get handled on its own
(12:31):
down the road.
And there was, yeah, there wasa change of personnel in that
specific position that you know.
We were able to wrap up thatproject in a pretty short
timeframe, but it definitelyjust took.
It took a different mindset forcollaboration.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Give me your thoughts around.
You know how, how do you, howdo you build trust, um, and then
maximize that trust?
Uh, and, and I'll I'll kick itoff a little bit for you,
because you and I have, like Isaid at the onset here, met each
(13:10):
other at industry events overthe last two or three years or
so and we've had, you know,casual conversations in you know
hallways, at water coolers ofyou know trade shows and trade
conferences and that kind ofthing.
And, like any two strangers,you and I met each other and we
(13:37):
had certain perceptions of eachother, right, like you're
younger than me.
So I'm like, wow, he's ayounger guy and I'm older than
you.
So I'm like, wow, he's ayounger guy and I'm older than
you.
You built trust with me overthe years.
Well, I'm going to ask you, howdid you build trust with me?
(14:00):
I obviously have my opinionsabout that, but I'd be curious.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, I think it's.
I mean, there's a few things onhow to build trust right.
It's, ultimately, it's a desireto operate with a level of
integrity, high level ofintegrity, that you're probably
innately born with or it'sdeveloped as a young age right,
like that's a component therewhere trust is important to you,
the things you say and thethings you do and the people you
(14:27):
hang around with, like there's,you know, the root word of
integrity is integer, whichmeans whole.
So like those things areconsistent, right.
So trust is something I upholdreally highly and you know,
that's kind of like an internalperspective, from an external
perspective, I think, or from anexternal perspective.
Right, it's not expecting toomuch from other people, it's not
(14:50):
thinking about yourselfconstantly, it's thinking about
the people that you're around.
And then I think, as it relatesto even the conversations that
we've had and the time thatwe've spent together, is its
consistency and that kind ofties back into, I would say, the
sales component is it's notlooking and expecting these
quick wins, right, attending oneshow, okay, I've got to get
(15:11):
mine, how can I benefit?
It didn't work out, so then younever hear from me again.
And what's really cool withinthis space is how intimate so
many of the businesses are andhow collaborative I feel like
they are versus other industriesthat we work in as well, where
you know my second, third,fourth time attending you know
(15:32):
some of the markets and thingslike that.
It's like, oh hey, you're backagain, right, and I was
surprised by that that peoplewere acknowledging Now, I've
seen you a couple of timesaround, you know it's
understanding this what we dofor our clients and the
relationships we have with ourclients is extremely important
to both the business but alsothe people in the business.
(15:53):
Right, that's what our businessis.
Our business is comprised ofreally, really great people.
That's what makes the brand,that's what makes the business
is the people right, and ourcustomers and our clients and
our friends are the same way,and so I think it's having a
level of consistency.
That's what builds trust.
Right, there's the saying.
You know it takes like 10 moreinteractions to basically kind
(16:17):
of overcome a bad firstimpression, right, and so you
have to kind of build theselittle foundational building
blocks, gaining what I refer toas relational equity, right,
right, and that compounds overtime, naturally.
That's the thing you just haveto wait on, because you can't
slow down time.
(16:37):
You can't speed up time, youjust have to be patient.
I think that's what ultimatelybuilds trust, right?
So every interaction when youmeet with somebody, you're
building a little building blockOne slip you could really ruin
that right.
So every interaction when youmeet with somebody, you're
building a little building blockOne slip you could really ruin
that right.
But I think that's whereoperating and integrity and
having that level of consistencyis really important.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And I love the saying that it takes years to build
trust and it takes minutes todestroy it.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yes, exactly minutes to destroy it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yes, exactly, true, right, yeah and um, and actually
something that you know.
If you, if you try to get upevery morning with integrity and
with thinking about you, knowthe end in mind and what's good
for the customer, I thinkwhenever you think about
(17:38):
anything you do in terms of thecustomer, you'll be right nine
and a half times out of ten.
Obviously, you can't give awaythe store right.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So, yeah, I think building and maximizing trust
definitely is about consistency,definitely is about being, you
know, customer focused.
I think that's what most peopleare selling, right?
I mean, I know selling can kindof have bad connotation Not
everybody loves sales reps,right.
But so much of the work that wedo and I would assume in your
line too, right Kind of thatconsulting aspect is really
you're selling trust and therejust happens to then be a
(18:14):
service associated with that,right?
Because if they can't trust youto deliver on what they're
signing up for, it doesn'treally matter how great your
product is.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You know it's interesting.
You use the word consulting,which you know I always use the
word.
I mean we describe ourselves asSherpas instead of as
consultants, for the simplereason that, while there are
some great consultants in theworld, in our industry there are
(18:45):
also you always joke when, when, uh, when I, when I founded
realign in 2009, during theglobal crisis, financial crisis,
the us had gained somethinglike 10 million unemployed
people 2008, 2009, which meantthat they had gained nine
million consultants.
Sure, everybody's?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
right, people that were just between jobs and so,
yeah, what do you do?
Which meant that they hadgained 9 million consultants.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Sure, everybody's a consultant, right?
People that were just betweenjobs and so what do you do?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I don't have a job.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Oh no, I'm a consultant, totally so the word
has sort of been dragged throughthe mud and has been abused and
has been given a taint ofmistrust, right?
So we, we, sometimes I think,uh, it's you know, sort of going
(19:34):
back to, you have to start withthe end in mind.
Um, you know, in your businessit's you know, the end is, hey,
we're trying to save you money,we're trying to help you spend
you know less on this necessaryexpense.
Uh, in my business, uh, we'retrying to help you build a new
(19:55):
adjacent category, productcategory, access, a new channel
of distribution and add seven oreight figures of revenues to
your business.
Uh, which, by the way, requiresexecution.
It requires more than justputting that idea on a
PowerPoint and then praying.
You also have to do it.
Any examples of where sort ofbad examples maybe, where you
(20:21):
have tried to open theuncomfortable to uncover the
valuable, it just it wentsideways oh, I think a lot of
times it goes sideways.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
It's just how you deliver it right and life's kind
of just a learning experienceright uh, I, I tend to lack
patience and I and I and I kindof fool myself to think
everybody's going to think likeme, which I think is most
people's guess.
(20:52):
You try to put yourself insomebody else's shoes, you're
going to fall short because youjust again don't know their
sphere of reference.
Plenty of examples where I'vemaybe jumped the gun, trying to
go back to a decision makerafter maybe the opportunity was
delegated somewhere else,because I've already seen this
happening a certain way throughhundreds of other examples, I
think, allowing things to playthemselves out and asking for
(21:16):
permission to go back ifsomething goes sideways right,
because every business operatesdifferently.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I've worked with you have to do it at the customer's
time, right, it's on their time,not our time.
Yep, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And that's hard right when, within our line of work,
you see companies missing out ona lot of money.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Let's do it now.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's you know.
We say you know.
I just got off a call earlierthis morning.
The question was asked hey,what's the difference between
hiring you now and hiring you inApril?
That's a loaded question for us.
There's a lot of advantages tonow versus April.
I'm not going to push an agendahere.
(21:59):
If April makes you feel morecomfortable, that's great.
The savings opportunity on thetable is, you know, six figures.
You lose five months.
So that's so.
It's without me having, youknow, kind of an emotional
opinion on the difference.
Here's the math problem.
This is what you're at.
Does it make sense, right, Ifwe start the project earlier
(22:21):
versus later?
This is just the math problemthat you're going to be
overpaying during the time frame.
So that's what we're trying todo is equip our clients with
really the information to makebetter business decisions, so
that it doesn't become asemotional as maybe it has been
(22:41):
previously.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
But trust me, I make plenty of mistakes, Fennel.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, look, we all have, and that's okay.
Because I make mistakes, myclients make mistakes, you make
mistakes, all.
Because I make mistakes, myclients make mistakes, you make
mistakes, all human beings makemistakes, and it's never about
(23:12):
trying to be perfect, it'salways about keeping the bigger
point in the picture.
So we don't lose the biggerpoint in the picture, so we
don't lose the bigger point, umand uh, you know, here we're
talking about how do you buildtrust?
How do you, um, address theelephant in the room, right?
(23:37):
Um, how do you accept and owndiscomfort, and accept and own
the fact that each human beingsees things differently because
of what you call their sphere ofreference, right?
(23:59):
Um, any other thoughts that you, that, uh, you want to throw
into the conversation here, or?
Uh, this has been a really goodconversation, I?
I appreciate you jumping onthis call yeah, I think, just be
authentic.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think, you know, as far as it relates as you kind
of like, there's a level thereof trying to strike the balance
between you know, addressing theuncomfortable, but, I think,
also do what's authentic to you,because then again that's the
quickest way, I think, to losetrust, right, right, if you're
(24:36):
going to try to do things or bethings that you're not, is then
you, you really, because again,going back to integer whole,
right, is you should be the same.
You know it's not.
Integrity is kind of thought ofas you know, doing the right
thing when nobody's looking,which is part of it, right, but
it's being the same personreally in all aspects of your
life, right.
So there's a conflict betweenyou.
(24:56):
Know, if something comes outthat doesn't align with, maybe,
how you've addressed things inthe business world as you do
your professional world, oroutside, in some of these water
coolers or whatever it is, thatstuff's going to end up catching
up to you.
Like you mentioned, it takesminutes to really lose that
trust.
I think that doesn't mean belike now we're kind of in the
world I don't want to go off onsome huge tangent where it's
(25:18):
overly authentic, where you'rekind of pushing your agenda, but
it's like authentic, whereyou're kind of pushing your
agenda, but it's like just justbe comfortable in your own skin.
That would be my encouragement,right and just, and then allow
other people to make thedecision on whether or not they
want to engage things withintheir timeline, being respectful
there, um, you know, and justkind of letting them come back
full circle to, um you know, avalue proposition that you may
(25:40):
have and if not, then just berespectful within you know,
allow there to be no's andrespect people's no's and those
types of things.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Respect the no.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Respect the no yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Right right, right, right right.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you said no's.
Oh, no, yeah, respect the noN-O, got it.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
You know it's yeah, the authenticity and consistency
and just being comfortable inyour skin.
I can tell you that has becomeeasier for me as I've grown
older.
When I was in my 20s and 30s, Iwas just like go, go, go go.
(26:28):
I got to make a name for myselfBetter, faster, cheaper.
I was just sort of revving theengine all the time to the point
where, you know, and I thinkpeople forgive you know, a 25
and a 35 year old guy, that morethan a 50 or 60 year old person
(26:49):
, but that's been an interestingpart for me of of podcasting.
You know, I did the firsthundred plus episodes were we're
audio only and and, and thefirst dozen I was super
uncomfortable and I've learnedto become more comfortable.
And then, you know, we said,hey, let's do, let's do video,
(27:11):
and I was, oh what?
Oh, my god, I, I, you know, uh,I, you know I have to poker
face.
I have to use my poker facemore often because I I people
always know what I'm thinkingLike.
If I think somebody saidsomething really stupid, you
know I'll probably be the onerolling my eyes, which you know.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I guess I do it on podcasts too, but you, probably
get to meet a lot of differentpeople, which is, I think, a
huge benefit.
Right, and again, all having adifferent sphere of reference,
right, right.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Cody, this was a great conversation.
If folks wanted to reach out toyou, you know, just on on on
anything, but I think anyanybody who has a you know, who
spends money with UPS and FedEx,they should definitely call
reach out to you.
What, uh, do you want to giveyour um website address or email
(28:06):
address?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
yeah, no, you can go to the website.
Uh, ospiegroupcom.
A-u-s-p-i groupcom.
Uh, my email is quite simplecody at ospie group, so I can
also ben if you, when you sharethis, if you want to share that.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Terrific, awesome.
Here it is.
Thank you so much for jumpingon this.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, thanks for the invite.
We'll see you soon.
Take care, Bye friend.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Thank you for listening to this episode of TGO
Podcast.
You can find all episodes onour podcast page at
wwwrealign4resultscom.
You can find me, Benno, host ofTGO Podcast, there as well.
Just email, benno B-E-N-N-O atrealign4resultscom.
(28:56):
Let's keep growing.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!