August 16, 2022 • 33 mins
What should we tell the kids? How much information should we share? How do we have this conversation? In this episode, Divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA® Financial Divorce Consultant; Scott Weiner, Psychologist, Attorney and Mediator; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F* Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney, discuss what should and should not be shared with your children about the divorce.
The Three Wisemen of Divorce are divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shawn Weber (00:00):
Okay,
Scott Weiner (00:01):
the computer said it's recording.
Shawn Weber (00:03):
It's recording
Scott Weiner (00:04):
in progress.
Shawn Weber (00:05):
Can you hear both of us? Okay, because I had I
changed the
Mark Hill (00:07):
Yes, I can hear you both fine.
Shawn Weber (00:09):
Like it's like both sides.
Scott Weiner (00:11):
Both sides now do some kind of
Mark Hill (00:13):
like a bit like a locker room but yeah, it's okay.
Shawn Weber (00:17):
Like a locker room.
Yeah, echoing
Mark Hill (00:19):
smells, just the banter.
Shawn Weber (00:27):
Welcome to the three wise men of divorce,
money, Psych, and law podcast.
Sit down with the Californiadivorce experts, financial
divorce consultant, Mark Hill,psychologist Scott Weiner, and
attorney Shawn Weber for a frankand casual conversation about
divorce, separation, coparenting, and the difficult
decisions, real people like youface during these tough times.
(00:50):
We know that if you're lookingat divorce or separation, it can
be scary and overwhelming. Withcombined experience of over 70
years of divorce and conflictmanagement. We are here for you
and look forward to helping bysharing our unique ideas,
thoughts and perspectives ondivorce. Separation and co
parenting.
(01:11):
, sorry,
Mark Hill (01:23):
my wife, please is really.
Okay. What are we talking about?
We're talking,
Scott Weiner (01:32):
should we just hang out?
Shawn Weber (01:35):
How to tell the kids?
Scott Weiner (01:40):
Yeah. I mean, you're recording right now? I
don't know. I can't divulge toomuch. Well, actually, she can
start it whatever she wants. Butit's like this is being caused
by your mother.
Mark Hill (01:51):
That's a good one.
Shawn Weber (01:57):
You got to play my bass
Mark Hill (01:58):
a mistress. How about that one?
Scott Weiner (02:00):
That's great.
Shawn Weber (02:01):
I had that case.
Your father? Well, she was veryChristian. This particular case,
she was very Christian. And hewas having an affair. And he was
apparently very Christian. aswell. But you know,
Scott Weiner (02:17):
no but his tastes were Catholic.
Shawn Weber (02:20):
Yes.
And she told the kids that thereason they're getting divorced
is because Father has amistress. Right? Those were her
words. Father has a mistress.
Scott Weiner (02:34):
Oh, that's so touching. It just makes me want
to sing to the hills, you know?
Oh,
Mark Hill (02:40):
sounds Victorian, doesn't it? You know? Yes, it
does. And it comes along with alot of the sort of the ethos of
that era.
Shawn Weber (02:51):
Allow me to introduce you to my concubine,
Mark Hill (02:53):
right? Yes.
Shawn Weber (02:56):
Yeah. All right.
But, you know, so in allseriousness, you know, talking
to the kids, we can just starttalking right.
Scott Weiner (03:05):
So hey, you guys, what are we how are we going to
tell the kids
Shawn Weber (03:09):
about what about the divorce? Yeah, I think we
should come out and tell them
Mark Hill (03:13):
that it's not a big deal. We that we could have find
out, you know, already
Shawn Weber (03:18):
that your mother is a horrible person. Well,
Mark Hill (03:21):
they know the mother had an affair. Yes. So there's
no question about who thewronged party here
Scott Weiner (03:32):
had said, who's wrong? And you know, and will
when you come and stay at myhouse, you know, you can you can
do whatever you want. We willsit up all night and eat pizza.
And, you know, Freddie, youknow, you're only 14. But, you
know, there are places where youcan drink. So that'll be at our
house,
Shawn Weber (03:49):
you know, I might suggest a different strategy.
Oh, I think rather than tellingthe kids are really gonna stick.
Okay. Yeah, that maybe weshould, you know, talk to them
about the parts that they needto hear. parts, the parts of the
divorce, the fact that there's adivorce happening?
Unknown (04:11):
Oh, wait a minute, are you even going to tell them that
there's a divorce?
Shawn Weber (04:13):
There's that too.
You could just
Scott Weiner (04:15):
oh my god. I mean, that happens. It's
Shawn Weber (04:18):
one thing to talk about the
fire. I have a friend and hetalks about the day he found out
that his parents were gettingdivorced because he was just
loaded into a car. Yeah. Andthat's all he was. That's all
the warning he was given. Andall the explanation he was given
is that mom and the kids aregonna live somewhere else now. I
see. So maybe not that. Andmaybe not. Let's talk about how
(04:43):
horrible the other parent is.
That's probably not good.
Mark Hill (04:46):
And maybe not assume that the kids don't anticipate
it to some degree.
Shawn Weber (04:51):
How they marry.
Mark Hill (04:54):
Well, we've heard that, haven't we?
Shawn Weber (04:56):
Yeah, we heard that. Yeah, but you guys agree
Either there needs to be aconversation. If you've got
children at some point, you gotto have a conversation.
Mark Hill (05:04):
I think so. And I think that it's smart to do it
together. And I think that it'ssmart to have your story ahead
of time so that you don't getinto a battle about who's
causing this.
Scott Weiner (05:19):
At least not with the children,
Mark Hill (05:22):
not in front of the children. Exactly. You can
Scott Weiner (05:24):
have that battle in your mediation. Or you can
tell you're in therapy. When youtell your lawyer in therapy.
Yeah, yeah.
Shawn Weber (05:32):
It might be very helpful to have that
conversation, I think. Yes.
Yeah. But not with the childrenwill. So why wouldn't you do
with the children? Maybe thissounds obvious, but let's let's
discuss it with our audience.
Why? Why is it bad? discussthose kinds of details with the
kids?
Mark Hill (05:49):
Well, the kids are 5050 Mom and Dad, I'm
Shawn Weber (05:54):
presuming, genetically.
Mark Hill (05:57):
And so they know that. If they're told one
partner is a very bad person,that doesn't that mean, that
half of me is a bad person, or Ihave the potential to be a bad
person.
Scott Weiner (06:11):
It's among the things they could think,
Shawn Weber (06:13):
yeah. I've talked to a kid and his dad, or his dad
was like, you know, I'm going totell him everything. And the kid
was very hurt by that, actually.
Yeah. And then I talked to thefather about and he said, Well,
you know, he's a very maturekid, he understands things he
deserves to know, I'm not goingto lie to my son, about what
went down.
Scott Weiner (06:34):
Instead, he's going to lie to himself about
why he's doing that.
Mark Hill (06:40):
You know, if so,
Shawn Weber (06:42):
well, is that lying when you don't tell your kid
everything?
Mark Hill (06:46):
Well, no, because you don't tell your child everything
from the time they come homefrom the hospital. The things
become age appropriate atcertain points in life.
Scott Weiner (07:00):
There's that. But you did. I hate to be so you
know, definition based, but ifyou if every time you don't tell
everybody, everything abouteverything, you've lied, then we
are in a constant state ofdeceit. You know, I mean, I
(07:24):
mean, although as a therapist, Ican see all everything that's
true about Shawn. There's a lotthat he doesn't know about me,
and would benefit him to know.
It might actually, it might
Shawn Weber (07:36):
might actually cause me harm. I knew what you
were really,
Mark Hill (07:40):
really, yeah. We've shown we need to chat.
Scott Weiner (07:46):
If you guys don't already
Mark Hill (07:52):
have insights you guys.
Shawn Weber (07:55):
Likely like the children that we deal with, I
have some inkling what kind ofperson we're dealing with here.
Scott Weiner (08:06):
All right, look, to be to be really fair, that,
you know, are you lying to thechildren? When you don't tell
them everything? My responsewould be? I don't think that's
what lying really means. Youknow, I think lying when we talk
about lying, we're usually whatwe really mean, is some kind of
(08:29):
self serving, misrepresentation,of something that that that
really doesn't benefit thehearer, it's, it's for my own
selfish benefit. And if, if, if,if we talk about it, what really
benefits the children it mightbenefit them greatly not to know
(08:54):
that, I don't know. Mom had anaffair, or dad had an affair, it
might benefit them greatly notto know that. You know, it might
just, frankly, I deal with this.
I had I had a client tell me theother day that he got very, very
drunk and had a fling a realflame and all the like the whole
(09:19):
thing and nothing but the flame.
so help us God with a bestfriend of his. And he's in the
course now of getting ready tomarry his fiancee. And he's, you
know, you know, what do I do? DoI tell her to it's like, well, I
(09:41):
mean, you have to parse this.
It's like, if you told her,would it be for her benefit?
Would it be for your benefit?
Would it cause more suffering?
Would it cause less suffering?
What's your real intent here? InI mean, he he loves her to death
he got I mean, he was having alot of stress and he got
seriously serious Les Branca didthis. And it's
Shawn Weber (10:02):
like, does she need an STD test?
Scott Weiner (10:04):
He might need one
Unknown (10:06):
at frankly, in this case, no. Okay. And there's a
reason for that too. Yeah. Okay.
They don't. But yeah, so it's,
Shawn Weber (10:15):
you're saying there's a point where it's
productive to disclose?
Mark Hill (10:22):
Not just it's a moral imperative to disclose. There's
adoptive. Yes.
Scott Weiner (10:27):
There's the ethical duty.
Shawn Weber (10:29):
And then there can be times where it's very unkind
to disclose so I can tell you,you know, you're looking really
old and kind of fat
Unknown (10:38):
he tells me that all the time.
Shawn Weber (10:41):
I could tell you that,
Scott Weiner (10:42):
but that was me.
I'm losing my hair too. And Ihave no idea what he
Shawn Weber (10:46):
said. Right. Flip the station for, like, read.
Unknown (10:51):
I know, it's pretty clear,
Shawn Weber (10:52):
it wouldn't be exactly time to tell you what
I've observed. Right?
Mark Hill (10:57):
There's, there's a line from an old Waylon Jennings
song that goes, don't I warn youwhen you're getting fat? Am I
going to take you fishing withme one day? Well, a man can love
a woman more than that. Sothere's, yeah,
Shawn Weber (11:16):
well, okay. So so it may actually, I mean, we
withhold things from our kidsall the time, right. There's
adults, the kids, but notnecessarily I mean, I don't
invite them into bedroomdiscussions. You know, there's
things that there's reasons whywe have locked doors. How
dishonest of you, right, I'malways honest person because I
(11:37):
tell them what happens in ourbedroom. Right? Well, I think a
divorce. Well, it's not well, Imean, I can get Freudian on you
here here. That's all right. Ifyou get excellent violence,
right. There's there's a pointwhere that intimacies of what
happens is the bedroom isactually very much related to
the intimacies intimacies andwhat happens in a divorce. Well,
(12:02):
yes. And you don't share thatwith just everybody the
Scott Weiner (12:05):
betrayals that we are actually discussing, as a
substrate for all of this,frankly, our bedroom betrayals.
Yeah, aren't they? It's all partof it. Right. And, and it's
like, you know, it's funny, ithadn't occurred to me, you,
you've mentioned that vignetteto me before. About that guy
(12:25):
said I was going to be he wasgoing to be honest, it was like,
you know, I wonder if you hadsaid to him, do you? In the
course of being honest with yourchildren? Do you discuss, you
know, sexual positions with yourdo you discuss I mean,
Shawn Weber (12:41):
because that would be the honest thing that would
be really, you
Unknown (12:43):
know, thoroughly that
Mark Hill (12:44):
but you do have situations where the maybe it's
seems to me, it's often a singlechild is very aligned with one
of the parties. And when theirteenage years, they take
guidance from that person. Andthey're kind of like that, they
see that person is their bestfriend. Yes, I've seen that
situation occur, actually, withboth sexes, dad with a son and
(13:08):
mother with a daughter. And itwas, you know, a blurring of the
roles to Father and Son. Andthat was a reason to share
everything about the divorce,those lines I felt had been
blurred before this occurred.
Well, maybe they ended up therebecause of what happened during
the marriage. That's apossibility.
Shawn Weber (13:30):
And the research shows that there's a couple of
things that are very harmful toa kid in a divorce. And one of
the things is really harmful toa kid is rectification Yes. When
the child is present ified? No,sometimes I think oversharing
with the child before they're ofan age where they it's
appropriate for them to hear thedisclosure. Yeah. puts them in a
(13:54):
place that they shouldn't be.
Mark Hill (13:55):
I need to take care of the parent, because look,
what an awful time they're beingput
Shawn Weber (14:00):
on. So 13 year old Tommy feels like he needs to
defend mom to dad or whatever.
Yeah, and that isn't a goodplace to put that kid. So we're
kind of talking about, you know,what you should not disclose. We
should not disclose, quote,unquote, adult business with
kids. It's actually the law inCalifornia that you don't
disclose. Details of courtproceedings, show them court
(14:22):
filings speak ill of the otherparent in the presence of the
child, that's usually an orderfrom the judge. It's routine,
that you'll get that kind of anorder that neither parent will
speak ill of the other parent orallow other people to do so in
the presence of children. Andprecisely because it's not good
for them to hear that. Even ifit's true. But what should we
(14:43):
disclose? What should we tellthe kids so I'm getting ready to
sit the kids down and tell themabout Mom and Dad's divorce or
in this day and age mom andmom's divorce and dad and dad's
divorce? What what do I tellthem? Hmm,
Mark Hill (14:59):
well, what I would ask what's important to the
children? What's important forthem to know? Where am I going
to live? Am I going to go to thesame school while I still have
my same friends? That's a bigone. You know, where are you
(15:20):
both going to live? Often, Imean, children, it depends upon
the age once again, if they'retiny children, they just follow
like sheep. But you once you getteenagers around, they have
lives and they have things theydo. And the focus is very
different. So again, it's agespecific, but I think, you know,
(15:41):
children want to know, a, thatthey are loved. B, that they are
going to be okay. And what isgoing to happen to them? That's,
that's kind of what I hear fromkids.
Scott Weiner (15:56):
It's like the adverbs who, what, when, where,
you know, and I, I'm gonna leanaway from the why it's gonna say
who, what,
Shawn Weber (16:05):
where, when? How never why.
Mark Hill (16:06):
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and basically,I've had, you know, parents
agonizing over how do we tellthem? How do we tell them, and
on more than one occasion,they've come back, and they
said, Well, that was easier thanwe thought they were kind of
relieved. And they just want toknow what's going on and where,
who's going to go where the, inother words, the kids who were
both teenagers in this case,we're, we're pretty much sure
(16:30):
that this was going to happen.
They were not blind to what wasgoing on in the home. And they
just were concerned that no onewas telling them how it was
going to impact them.
Shawn Weber (16:41):
Well, and that's the number one complaint of kids
in divorce, when they talkedabout looking back on their
parents divorce is that theywere never asked to talk to you
about what was going on thisthing just kind of happened to
them. Right? Instead of
Mark Hill (16:54):
passengers. They were passengers on a train that they
couldn't control, like
Shawn Weber (16:58):
my friend who just loaded a new car. Never saw his
dad again. Wow. I mean, that's,that's pretty harsh. Yeah,
that's a really bad example. Youknow, it's a really awful
situation. But
Scott Weiner (17:10):
I don't think that happens as much anymore. Not as
much. I mean, now. I mean, I'vehad, you know, family situations
where the judge makes certainthat the incarcerated parent
gets visits, you know, it's likethat level of, you know, what,
because then you're gonna haveto show that me says his or her
(17:33):
honor, you're gonna have to showme that it's harmful to maintain
contact with this parent.
Shawn Weber (17:39):
One thing we know is that even when a parent
lacks, all have a functioning,that we'd like to see the ideal,
we do know that it's stillhealthy for the kids to have
relationship. Okay. Yeah.
Scott Weiner (17:51):
So that is something that, you know, when
you ask, you know, what do wetell the kids that, I think
maybe the most important thingis, we must let them know that
they are still going to have afulsome relationship with both
parents. And, and then theirkids, kids are a little
scientist, you know, well, sodoes that mean that I'm going to
(18:14):
be, you know, I know Freddy, hegoes, he gets five days with
with, with his mom and two dayswith dad, and then two days,
which is, you know,
Shawn Weber (18:23):
by the way, they are talking to their friends.
Yeah, yes. They are. Yeah.
Scott Weiner (18:30):
So they're more familiar with these processes. I
mean, we're doing a we'reworking on a case right now,
where I think they really theparents don't know yet what
they're going to do. They don'tknow how they're going to do it.
Because, as usual, there's alever and a levy. And, you know,
somebody is, so these thingshaven't been worked out
Shawn Weber (18:53):
yet. Well, they're trying to figure it out for
themselves. They don't even knowwhat their relationship is gonna
be like, That's right. And soone of them's like, well, I, you
know, we're gonna be able to doChristmases together. And the
other ones, like, I don't know,if I can do that. You're gonna
leave me I don't think I can dofirst I can take that, you know?
And yeah. And so then nowthey're going to go to the kids
and talking about how Christmasis going to work. Yeah. So if
(19:15):
you don't know the answer, doyou think it's okay to say, you
know, we're trying to figurethis out? We know, we're trying
to figure
Scott Weiner (19:20):
this out. I mean, you've got a couple of choices.
First of all, you could say wedon't know yet. We're trying to
figure this out. And, you know,I mean, if the kids some kids
are like little sages, you know,they really are.
Mark Hill (19:33):
So I think
Unknown (19:35):
how would you like it to be? Well, I
Mark Hill (19:37):
think explaining about the process that they're
going through. Because if theyare talking to their friends,
how many of their friends willhave had parents will have had a
mediated or collaborativedivorce. Some may have but
there's a lot of may not letthem be there is then there's
(19:57):
good mediation and bad mediationas well. So, I would say that
there is
Shawn Weber (20:03):
we're trying to do good. We're trying to do the
good. Just wanted to changeRyan, this aspiration,
Unknown (20:08):
same patient,
Mark Hill (20:09):
always aspirational.
But what do you think aboutthat?
Shawn Weber (20:16):
What do I think about what?
Mark Hill (20:18):
I just said? You weren't listening?
Shawn Weber (20:21):
I was listening. I didn't know there was a
question.
Mark Hill (20:26):
Well, children, let's, let's approach it from
another angle. Children will betalking to their friends about
what is going on. And they willbe getting feedback from their
friends. And that feedback willbe dependent upon the who
(20:48):
they're going to go and talk tothe friends whose parents are
happily married, or the friendsthat parents got a divorce? Or
are you going through a divorcethat they're aware of? They're
going to go to the ones with theexperience, and what experience
is that? So my point was triedto tell the children of the
process you're going through,and that get that can buy you
some time to working together tosolve this so that you guys are
(21:12):
going to be safe and secure. Andokay. And we don't know the
answers to all this, but we'regoing to keep you informed as we
go through it. or words to thateffect.
Scott Weiner (21:21):
That is extremely good input, sir. I must say, No,
I'm not kidding. And no, no, nojokes.
Shawn Weber (21:29):
I would like the audience to understand that
Scott approves.
Mark Hill (21:34):
Well, and that is such a rare event.
Scott Weiner (21:38):
God is this therapist guy who just got very,
very nicely schooled by thefinancial guy, and I'm not
kidding. I'm not kidding. Andthat that little vignettes that
little to made, is somethingthat I plan to steal. For our
first couple for a couple thatwe're working on. It's like,
(21:58):
less, we
Shawn Weber (21:59):
can't really sometimes I
Unknown (22:00):
do really crazy, maniacal, musician, Brit that
Shawn Weber (22:07):
we work with? Yeah, well, he's pretty smart guy. He
is a is a wise man of divorce.
That's true. So, okay, so thenthere's, there's kind of the
emotional security, you're gonnabe okay. And I like what you
said about security, becausethere's also financial security.
Yep. I mean, a lot of times kidsare scared, if we're gonna have
enough money. Sometimes you seeme, you might see like, one of
(22:28):
the parties fretting over, dothey have enough money now?
Because they're having to divideeverything by two and it's going
to their cost of living is goingto be higher? Because they're
living in two separate houses?
Well, I knew what do you tellthe kids about that
Scott Weiner (22:40):
we could, we can be even a little. And it's not
dishonest right now, for us tobe to face some of the harsh
realities to there are timeswhen people really do wonder how
they're going to get by if theydivide things into those parents
are kind of they're kind ofgone. You know, if the kid were
gonna say, Well, are we going tolive in a nice house? I don't
(23:01):
know. I don't know. I don't knowhow it's gonna go down. But you
will have us you will have uswill be with you all the way.
You know, but, and we'll knowabout that. I want to know, can
I still live
Mark Hill (23:12):
and we're working on it. We'll keep you informed.
We're working on it. It's tough.
Neither one of us wanted this.
It's tough. We're trying to workit out with your best interests
at heart.
Shawn Weber (23:25):
Now, my
Mark Hill (23:26):
daughter, that's the message to convey.
Shawn Weber (23:28):
My daughter share this story about one of one of
her friends told her about theirparents, best friend, and it was
kind of emotional for and it wasthe child was talking to Dad,
can I have some money to go dothis activity or do whatever?
And he's like, I already payyour money, Mom enough child
(23:49):
support?
Unknown (23:52):
Oh, I've had that. I've had plenty of that.
Shawn Weber (23:56):
Or the in front of the kids or the inverse. Go ask
your dad or go ask your mom forthat money because I can't
afford it. Because I have, youknow, they're not paying me
enough child support.
Mark Hill (24:08):
So how does that happen? Because I'm going to
drag it back to process. Yeah,that's where there's a court
order been imposed. Where therehasn't been a discussion about
what are we going to do aboutthe kids extra curricular stuff.
We both want them to be able tobe on their sports teams. How
are we going to work this outhow we're going to make this
(24:29):
work? No, it probably one partywent for as much as they could
get and the other party tried topay as little as possible. And a
judge had to decide or they gotforced into a settlement
Shawn Weber (24:41):
where there was a win lose outcome. Exactly. And
so
Mark Hill (24:45):
there's resentment because they were not consulted
on this. How did the process itdoes.
Scott Weiner (24:51):
Sometimes this happens when there's just a lose
lose outcome because therereally isn't that much to start
with. And then they you know,
Shawn Weber (24:57):
let's be honest, most of the time it is lose
lose. Yeah. No. And what you'resaying mark is, is hey, you can
get into a process where you canhave an intelligent, thoughtful
discussion with your partnerabout how you're going to handle
the cash flow.
Mark Hill (25:14):
So that when it comes up with the children, you don't
get knocked into a corner andstart blaming the other party.
Yeah, because you have had a youhave a plan, you have a plan how
to deal with the inevitablebecause trust me, if you've
raising children, in theirteenage years, their demands
will become financiallysurprising.
Scott Weiner (25:35):
Well, I think you are an incredibly positive
person. And that's one of thethings I've seen there be all
the planning and all of the Imean, a really good agreement.
And one of those people is stillJoneses, for approving. Yes,
(25:56):
yeah. It's like, you know, sothese things are still going to
come up. But I mean, the best wecan do is to help these people,
not become nasty litigants, andhelp them at least create the
best plan. And there's a betterchance doing it that way that
(26:18):
the kid asks for something or,you know, and it's a lot, you
know, and even if even if Maryor Fred are really thinking,
Well, if that son of a gun, it'slike, you know, what, we have a,
we have a way to work this out,we'll see. Even if they bring it
back, you know, and mediate out,you know, who's going to pay for
the expensive ballet? Or who'sgonna pay for the expensive
(26:40):
traveling football team orsomething like that? How are we
going to do that? We didn'tanticipate that. You know, and
it might not be possible forthem to do it. It might Yeah.
Mark Hill (26:50):
Yeah. Sometimes there is, you know, a negative impact
on the children inevitably,because two homes cost more than
one, I get it. But children whodon't know, are children who are
more likely to be challenging towork with children. Who had this
(27:11):
information? In other words,they they, because a lot of its
peer pressure. We're all goingon the field trip? What do you
mean, you're not going on thefield trip? Because your mom's
broke? You know, there's peerpressure there. So helping the
child prepare for things,setting expectations, giving the
child help the child have aplan? I don't know. Maybe I'm
(27:36):
just overly positive?
Shawn Weber (27:38):
Well, I think I think there's reasons to be
positive. I think I think thebig takeaway is many fold. One
is, it's not a good idea toshare nastiness about the other
person with the kid. All thatdoes is hurt the kid all that
does is like a boomerangingarrow. Right. Yeah.
Mark Hill (27:54):
Well, and in the long, yeah, they won't benefit
you in the long run.
Shawn Weber (27:58):
And actually, it will poison your relationship
with. Yeah, there's that that'svery toxic behavior. So don't do
it. Okay. So number two, it isimportant to share some things
with the child and help themfeel secure and safe, relieve
their anxieties. They're there.
They're safe with their parents,they're going to be safe with
their money. And they have asafe place to go emotionally.
(28:20):
Yep. Right. What else do weneed? What else Oh, and and
there are processes that aremore conducive to that
conversation going well thanother processes. So adversarial
process is where you go to courtand go to war and condition
yourself to hate your spouse andnot talk to each other. It is
(28:40):
then harder to be on the samepage, as your co parent, when
it's now time to work with yourchild.
Scott Weiner (28:52):
Or be at the same outing where your child is or
their same activity. It's likeall of that. So
Shawn Weber (28:58):
find a process that encourages cooperation and
collaboration, as opposed to aprocess that encourages
animosity, and adversarialinteractions.
Mark Hill (29:09):
And if it's age appropriate, make your children
aware of what you and yourspouse are doing, to try to
create an environment that workfor them.
Shawn Weber (29:19):
We love you so much. Exactly. Hey, Mark Hills
exorbitant to help us figure outand I'm joking, but in all
honesty, we're trying we'reworking with a financial
professional to help us figureout and make sure that we're
still on track to make sure thatyour your college is is squared
away. Yeah, something like,yeah, exactly. You know, yeah,
(29:42):
yep. Or we're meeting with thispsychologist. In fact, we're
going to invite you to come meetwith this person. And so we can
talk about how our family isgoing to work after the divorce
because our family isn't ending.
We're all still here and we allstill love you. And you have two
parents that love you verydearly, and we want to make sure
that we do this in a way thatmakes a lot of sense for you and
it's good for you.
Unknown (30:03):
Right, my ads?
Shawn Weber (30:05):
Well, Somebody oughta.
Mark Hill (30:11):
Okay. I think we may have done it again.
Unknown (30:14):
I think so. Well, I think so.
Shawn Weber (30:16):
I think so i Good.
Good talk kids. Yeah.
Scott Weiner (30:21):
So seasonal too, by the way, you know, there's
getting getting through Junethrough the holidays. Oh, boy.
That's probably our next one.
Let's talk about the
Shawn Weber (30:33):
Well, I mean, in the case we're talking about
there's that wrinkle of, well,what do we do at Christmas? We
haven't told them yet. Wepretend. Yeah. So that could be
another whole whole discussion.
So, Scott, yes. If they haven'tread your advertising material
that you've so carefullydrafted? Well,
Scott Weiner (30:53):
you know, I'm waiting for you to set me up
with a website. Actually, Idon't have one, I have a phone.
And that is how I connect withmy universe. And my name is
Scott Weiner. And I'm apsychologist Solana Beach.
619-417-5743. And I answered myown self.
Mark Hill (31:16):
All right. Well, you can look at our website. Our
company name is specific divorcemanagement, they website is pack
divorce.com. We do have a phonenumber on there. And yes, we
have been known to answer thetelephone too. But also there is
a contact form on there. Ifyou'd like to learn more.
Unknown (31:36):
Did you get that working? Apparently, we did.
Mark Hill (31:39):
Good told it is operational.
Shawn Weber (31:42):
So I can actually send you an email.
Mark Hill (31:45):
You can date you can write as long as you're not a
robot to have to prove you'renot a robot
Shawn Weber (31:54):
I website to certify that you're not a robot.
Exactly.
Unknown (31:58):
I think he's vaguely real.
Mark Hill (32:01):
Well, you're in the same room with him. So you would
know that unless I'm a robot
Unknown (32:05):
to. He is quite real to me. Me. Well.
Shawn Weber (32:11):
Oh my gosh. Well, if you have any kind of legal
dispute, you could go to mywebsite, Weber dispute
resolution.com where we willmatch you with a mediator that
can help you resolve yourdispute that is Weber dispute.
resolution.com Weber with one B.
Scott Weiner (32:30):
Okay, folks, good to speak with you great
holidays. But there's a lot moreto talk about. Bye. Bye bye.
Shawn Weber (32:39):
Thanks for listening to another episode of
the three Wiseman of divorce,money, Psych, and law. If you
liked what you heard, be sure tosubscribe. Leave us a review and
share with others who may be ina similar place. Until next
time, stay safe, healthy andfocused on a positive bright
future. This podcast is forinformational purposes only.
(33:04):
Every family law case is unique.
So no legal, financial or mentalhealth advice is intended during
this podcast. If you need helpwith your specific situation,
feel free to schedule a time tospeak with one of us for a
personal consultation.
Okay,
Scott Weiner (00:01):
the computer said it's recording.
Shawn Weber (00:03):
It's recording
Scott Weiner (00:04):
in progress.
Shawn Weber (00:05):
Can you hear both of us? Okay, because I had I
changed the
Mark Hill (00:07):
Yes, I can hear you both fine.
Shawn Weber (00:09):
Like it's like both sides.
Scott Weiner (00:11):
Both sides now do some kind of
Mark Hill (00:13):
like a bit like a locker room but yeah, it's okay.
Shawn Weber (00:17):
Like a locker room.
Yeah, echoing
Mark Hill (00:19):
smells, just the banter.
Shawn Weber (00:27):
Welcome to the three wise men of divorce,
money, Psych, and law podcast.
Sit down with the Californiadivorce experts, financial
divorce consultant, Mark Hill,psychologist Scott Weiner, and
attorney Shawn Weber for a frankand casual conversation about
divorce, separation, coparenting, and the difficult
decisions, real people like youface during these tough times.
(00:50):
We know that if you're lookingat divorce or separation, it can
be scary and overwhelming. Withcombined experience of over 70
years of divorce and conflictmanagement. We are here for you
and look forward to helping bysharing our unique ideas,
thoughts and perspectives ondivorce. Separation and co
parenting.
(01:11):
, sorry,
Mark Hill (01:23):
my wife, please is really.
Okay. What are we talking about?
We're talking,
Scott Weiner (01:32):
should we just hang out?
Shawn Weber (01:35):
How to tell the kids?
Scott Weiner (01:40):
Yeah. I mean, you're recording right now? I
don't know. I can't divulge toomuch. Well, actually, she can
start it whatever she wants. Butit's like this is being caused
by your mother.
Mark Hill (01:51):
That's a good one.
Shawn Weber (01:57):
You got to play my bass
Mark Hill (01:58):
a mistress. How about that one?
Scott Weiner (02:00):
That's great.
Shawn Weber (02:01):
I had that case.
Your father? Well, she was veryChristian. This particular case,
she was very Christian. And hewas having an affair. And he was
apparently very Christian. aswell. But you know,
Scott Weiner (02:17):
no but his tastes were Catholic.
Shawn Weber (02:20):
Yes.
And she told the kids that thereason they're getting divorced
is because Father has amistress. Right? Those were her
words. Father has a mistress.
Scott Weiner (02:34):
Oh, that's so touching. It just makes me want
to sing to the hills, you know?
Oh,
Mark Hill (02:40):
sounds Victorian, doesn't it? You know? Yes, it
does. And it comes along with alot of the sort of the ethos of
that era.
Shawn Weber (02:51):
Allow me to introduce you to my concubine,
Mark Hill (02:53):
right? Yes.
Shawn Weber (02:56):
Yeah. All right.
But, you know, so in allseriousness, you know, talking
to the kids, we can just starttalking right.
Scott Weiner (03:05):
So hey, you guys, what are we how are we going to
tell the kids
Shawn Weber (03:09):
about what about the divorce? Yeah, I think we
should come out and tell them
Mark Hill (03:13):
that it's not a big deal. We that we could have find
out, you know, already
Shawn Weber (03:18):
that your mother is a horrible person. Well,
Mark Hill (03:21):
they know the mother had an affair. Yes. So there's
no question about who thewronged party here
Scott Weiner (03:32):
had said, who's wrong? And you know, and will
when you come and stay at myhouse, you know, you can you can
do whatever you want. We willsit up all night and eat pizza.
And, you know, Freddie, youknow, you're only 14. But, you
know, there are places where youcan drink. So that'll be at our
house,
Shawn Weber (03:49):
you know, I might suggest a different strategy.
Oh, I think rather than tellingthe kids are really gonna stick.
Okay. Yeah, that maybe weshould, you know, talk to them
about the parts that they needto hear. parts, the parts of the
divorce, the fact that there's adivorce happening?
Unknown (04:11):
Oh, wait a minute, are you even going to tell them that
there's a divorce?
Shawn Weber (04:13):
There's that too.
You could just
Scott Weiner (04:15):
oh my god. I mean, that happens. It's
Shawn Weber (04:18):
one thing to talk about the
fire. I have a friend and hetalks about the day he found out
that his parents were gettingdivorced because he was just
loaded into a car. Yeah. Andthat's all he was. That's all
the warning he was given. Andall the explanation he was given
is that mom and the kids aregonna live somewhere else now. I
see. So maybe not that. Andmaybe not. Let's talk about how
(04:43):
horrible the other parent is.
That's probably not good.
Mark Hill (04:46):
And maybe not assume that the kids don't anticipate
it to some degree.
Shawn Weber (04:51):
How they marry.
Mark Hill (04:54):
Well, we've heard that, haven't we?
Shawn Weber (04:56):
Yeah, we heard that. Yeah, but you guys agree
Either there needs to be aconversation. If you've got
children at some point, you gotto have a conversation.
Mark Hill (05:04):
I think so. And I think that it's smart to do it
together. And I think that it'ssmart to have your story ahead
of time so that you don't getinto a battle about who's
causing this.
Scott Weiner (05:19):
At least not with the children,
Mark Hill (05:22):
not in front of the children. Exactly. You can
Scott Weiner (05:24):
have that battle in your mediation. Or you can
tell you're in therapy. When youtell your lawyer in therapy.
Yeah, yeah.
Shawn Weber (05:32):
It might be very helpful to have that
conversation, I think. Yes.
Yeah. But not with the childrenwill. So why wouldn't you do
with the children? Maybe thissounds obvious, but let's let's
discuss it with our audience.
Why? Why is it bad? discussthose kinds of details with the
kids?
Mark Hill (05:49):
Well, the kids are 5050 Mom and Dad, I'm
Shawn Weber (05:54):
presuming, genetically.
Mark Hill (05:57):
And so they know that. If they're told one
partner is a very bad person,that doesn't that mean, that
half of me is a bad person, or Ihave the potential to be a bad
person.
Scott Weiner (06:11):
It's among the things they could think,
Shawn Weber (06:13):
yeah. I've talked to a kid and his dad, or his dad
was like, you know, I'm going totell him everything. And the kid
was very hurt by that, actually.
Yeah. And then I talked to thefather about and he said, Well,
you know, he's a very maturekid, he understands things he
deserves to know, I'm not goingto lie to my son, about what
went down.
Scott Weiner (06:34):
Instead, he's going to lie to himself about
why he's doing that.
Mark Hill (06:40):
You know, if so,
Shawn Weber (06:42):
well, is that lying when you don't tell your kid
everything?
Mark Hill (06:46):
Well, no, because you don't tell your child everything
from the time they come homefrom the hospital. The things
become age appropriate atcertain points in life.
Scott Weiner (07:00):
There's that. But you did. I hate to be so you
know, definition based, but ifyou if every time you don't tell
everybody, everything abouteverything, you've lied, then we
are in a constant state ofdeceit. You know, I mean, I
(07:24):
mean, although as a therapist, Ican see all everything that's
true about Shawn. There's a lotthat he doesn't know about me,
and would benefit him to know.
It might actually, it might
Shawn Weber (07:36):
might actually cause me harm. I knew what you
were really,
Mark Hill (07:40):
really, yeah. We've shown we need to chat.
Scott Weiner (07:46):
If you guys don't already
Mark Hill (07:52):
have insights you guys.
Shawn Weber (07:55):
Likely like the children that we deal with, I
have some inkling what kind ofperson we're dealing with here.
Scott Weiner (08:06):
All right, look, to be to be really fair, that,
you know, are you lying to thechildren? When you don't tell
them everything? My responsewould be? I don't think that's
what lying really means. Youknow, I think lying when we talk
about lying, we're usually whatwe really mean, is some kind of
(08:29):
self serving, misrepresentation,of something that that that
really doesn't benefit thehearer, it's, it's for my own
selfish benefit. And if, if, if,if we talk about it, what really
benefits the children it mightbenefit them greatly not to know
(08:54):
that, I don't know. Mom had anaffair, or dad had an affair, it
might benefit them greatly notto know that. You know, it might
just, frankly, I deal with this.
I had I had a client tell me theother day that he got very, very
drunk and had a fling a realflame and all the like the whole
(09:19):
thing and nothing but the flame.
so help us God with a bestfriend of his. And he's in the
course now of getting ready tomarry his fiancee. And he's, you
know, you know, what do I do? DoI tell her to it's like, well, I
(09:41):
mean, you have to parse this.
It's like, if you told her,would it be for her benefit?
Would it be for your benefit?
Would it cause more suffering?
Would it cause less suffering?
What's your real intent here? InI mean, he he loves her to death
he got I mean, he was having alot of stress and he got
seriously serious Les Branca didthis. And it's
Shawn Weber (10:02):
like, does she need an STD test?
Scott Weiner (10:04):
He might need one
Unknown (10:06):
at frankly, in this case, no. Okay. And there's a
reason for that too. Yeah. Okay.
They don't. But yeah, so it's,
Shawn Weber (10:15):
you're saying there's a point where it's
productive to disclose?
Mark Hill (10:22):
Not just it's a moral imperative to disclose. There's
adoptive. Yes.
Scott Weiner (10:27):
There's the ethical duty.
Shawn Weber (10:29):
And then there can be times where it's very unkind
to disclose so I can tell you,you know, you're looking really
old and kind of fat
Unknown (10:38):
he tells me that all the time.
Shawn Weber (10:41):
I could tell you that,
Scott Weiner (10:42):
but that was me.
I'm losing my hair too. And Ihave no idea what he
Shawn Weber (10:46):
said. Right. Flip the station for, like, read.
Unknown (10:51):
I know, it's pretty clear,
Shawn Weber (10:52):
it wouldn't be exactly time to tell you what
I've observed. Right?
Mark Hill (10:57):
There's, there's a line from an old Waylon Jennings
song that goes, don't I warn youwhen you're getting fat? Am I
going to take you fishing withme one day? Well, a man can love
a woman more than that. Sothere's, yeah,
Shawn Weber (11:16):
well, okay. So so it may actually, I mean, we
withhold things from our kidsall the time, right. There's
adults, the kids, but notnecessarily I mean, I don't
invite them into bedroomdiscussions. You know, there's
things that there's reasons whywe have locked doors. How
dishonest of you, right, I'malways honest person because I
(11:37):
tell them what happens in ourbedroom. Right? Well, I think a
divorce. Well, it's not well, Imean, I can get Freudian on you
here here. That's all right. Ifyou get excellent violence,
right. There's there's a pointwhere that intimacies of what
happens is the bedroom isactually very much related to
the intimacies intimacies andwhat happens in a divorce. Well,
(12:02):
yes. And you don't share thatwith just everybody the
Scott Weiner (12:05):
betrayals that we are actually discussing, as a
substrate for all of this,frankly, our bedroom betrayals.
Yeah, aren't they? It's all partof it. Right. And, and it's
like, you know, it's funny, ithadn't occurred to me, you,
you've mentioned that vignetteto me before. About that guy
(12:25):
said I was going to be he wasgoing to be honest, it was like,
you know, I wonder if you hadsaid to him, do you? In the
course of being honest with yourchildren? Do you discuss, you
know, sexual positions with yourdo you discuss I mean,
Shawn Weber (12:41):
because that would be the honest thing that would
be really, you
Unknown (12:43):
know, thoroughly that
Mark Hill (12:44):
but you do have situations where the maybe it's
seems to me, it's often a singlechild is very aligned with one
of the parties. And when theirteenage years, they take
guidance from that person. Andthey're kind of like that, they
see that person is their bestfriend. Yes, I've seen that
situation occur, actually, withboth sexes, dad with a son and
(13:08):
mother with a daughter. And itwas, you know, a blurring of the
roles to Father and Son. Andthat was a reason to share
everything about the divorce,those lines I felt had been
blurred before this occurred.
Well, maybe they ended up therebecause of what happened during
the marriage. That's apossibility.
Shawn Weber (13:30):
And the research shows that there's a couple of
things that are very harmful toa kid in a divorce. And one of
the things is really harmful toa kid is rectification Yes. When
the child is present ified? No,sometimes I think oversharing
with the child before they're ofan age where they it's
appropriate for them to hear thedisclosure. Yeah. puts them in a
(13:54):
place that they shouldn't be.
Mark Hill (13:55):
I need to take care of the parent, because look,
what an awful time they're beingput
Shawn Weber (14:00):
on. So 13 year old Tommy feels like he needs to
defend mom to dad or whatever.
Yeah, and that isn't a goodplace to put that kid. So we're
kind of talking about, you know,what you should not disclose. We
should not disclose, quote,unquote, adult business with
kids. It's actually the law inCalifornia that you don't
disclose. Details of courtproceedings, show them court
(14:22):
filings speak ill of the otherparent in the presence of the
child, that's usually an orderfrom the judge. It's routine,
that you'll get that kind of anorder that neither parent will
speak ill of the other parent orallow other people to do so in
the presence of children. Andprecisely because it's not good
for them to hear that. Even ifit's true. But what should we
(14:43):
disclose? What should we tellthe kids so I'm getting ready to
sit the kids down and tell themabout Mom and Dad's divorce or
in this day and age mom andmom's divorce and dad and dad's
divorce? What what do I tellthem? Hmm,
Mark Hill (14:59):
well, what I would ask what's important to the
children? What's important forthem to know? Where am I going
to live? Am I going to go to thesame school while I still have
my same friends? That's a bigone. You know, where are you
(15:20):
both going to live? Often, Imean, children, it depends upon
the age once again, if they'retiny children, they just follow
like sheep. But you once you getteenagers around, they have
lives and they have things theydo. And the focus is very
different. So again, it's agespecific, but I think, you know,
(15:41):
children want to know, a, thatthey are loved. B, that they are
going to be okay. And what isgoing to happen to them? That's,
that's kind of what I hear fromkids.
Scott Weiner (15:56):
It's like the adverbs who, what, when, where,
you know, and I, I'm gonna leanaway from the why it's gonna say
who, what,
Shawn Weber (16:05):
where, when? How never why.
Mark Hill (16:06):
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and basically,I've had, you know, parents
agonizing over how do we tellthem? How do we tell them, and
on more than one occasion,they've come back, and they
said, Well, that was easier thanwe thought they were kind of
relieved. And they just want toknow what's going on and where,
who's going to go where the, inother words, the kids who were
both teenagers in this case,we're, we're pretty much sure
(16:30):
that this was going to happen.
They were not blind to what wasgoing on in the home. And they
just were concerned that no onewas telling them how it was
going to impact them.
Shawn Weber (16:41):
Well, and that's the number one complaint of kids
in divorce, when they talkedabout looking back on their
parents divorce is that theywere never asked to talk to you
about what was going on thisthing just kind of happened to
them. Right? Instead of
Mark Hill (16:54):
passengers. They were passengers on a train that they
couldn't control, like
Shawn Weber (16:58):
my friend who just loaded a new car. Never saw his
dad again. Wow. I mean, that's,that's pretty harsh. Yeah,
that's a really bad example. Youknow, it's a really awful
situation. But
Scott Weiner (17:10):
I don't think that happens as much anymore. Not as
much. I mean, now. I mean, I'vehad, you know, family situations
where the judge makes certainthat the incarcerated parent
gets visits, you know, it's likethat level of, you know, what,
because then you're gonna haveto show that me says his or her
(17:33):
honor, you're gonna have to showme that it's harmful to maintain
contact with this parent.
Shawn Weber (17:39):
One thing we know is that even when a parent
lacks, all have a functioning,that we'd like to see the ideal,
we do know that it's stillhealthy for the kids to have
relationship. Okay. Yeah.
Scott Weiner (17:51):
So that is something that, you know, when
you ask, you know, what do wetell the kids that, I think
maybe the most important thingis, we must let them know that
they are still going to have afulsome relationship with both
parents. And, and then theirkids, kids are a little
scientist, you know, well, sodoes that mean that I'm going to
(18:14):
be, you know, I know Freddy, hegoes, he gets five days with
with, with his mom and two dayswith dad, and then two days,
which is, you know,
Shawn Weber (18:23):
by the way, they are talking to their friends.
Yeah, yes. They are. Yeah.
Scott Weiner (18:30):
So they're more familiar with these processes. I
mean, we're doing a we'reworking on a case right now,
where I think they really theparents don't know yet what
they're going to do. They don'tknow how they're going to do it.
Because, as usual, there's alever and a levy. And, you know,
somebody is, so these thingshaven't been worked out
Shawn Weber (18:53):
yet. Well, they're trying to figure it out for
themselves. They don't even knowwhat their relationship is gonna
be like, That's right. And soone of them's like, well, I, you
know, we're gonna be able to doChristmases together. And the
other ones, like, I don't know,if I can do that. You're gonna
leave me I don't think I can dofirst I can take that, you know?
And yeah. And so then nowthey're going to go to the kids
and talking about how Christmasis going to work. Yeah. So if
(19:15):
you don't know the answer, doyou think it's okay to say, you
know, we're trying to figurethis out? We know, we're trying
to figure
Scott Weiner (19:20):
this out. I mean, you've got a couple of choices.
First of all, you could say wedon't know yet. We're trying to
figure this out. And, you know,I mean, if the kids some kids
are like little sages, you know,they really are.
Mark Hill (19:33):
So I think
Unknown (19:35):
how would you like it to be? Well, I
Mark Hill (19:37):
think explaining about the process that they're
going through. Because if theyare talking to their friends,
how many of their friends willhave had parents will have had a
mediated or collaborativedivorce. Some may have but
there's a lot of may not letthem be there is then there's
(19:57):
good mediation and bad mediationas well. So, I would say that
there is
Shawn Weber (20:03):
we're trying to do good. We're trying to do the
good. Just wanted to changeRyan, this aspiration,
Unknown (20:08):
same patient,
Mark Hill (20:09):
always aspirational.
But what do you think aboutthat?
Shawn Weber (20:16):
What do I think about what?
Mark Hill (20:18):
I just said? You weren't listening?
Shawn Weber (20:21):
I was listening. I didn't know there was a
question.
Mark Hill (20:26):
Well, children, let's, let's approach it from
another angle. Children will betalking to their friends about
what is going on. And they willbe getting feedback from their
friends. And that feedback willbe dependent upon the who
(20:48):
they're going to go and talk tothe friends whose parents are
happily married, or the friendsthat parents got a divorce? Or
are you going through a divorcethat they're aware of? They're
going to go to the ones with theexperience, and what experience
is that? So my point was triedto tell the children of the
process you're going through,and that get that can buy you
some time to working together tosolve this so that you guys are
(21:12):
going to be safe and secure. Andokay. And we don't know the
answers to all this, but we'regoing to keep you informed as we
go through it. or words to thateffect.
Scott Weiner (21:21):
That is extremely good input, sir. I must say, No,
I'm not kidding. And no, no, nojokes.
Shawn Weber (21:29):
I would like the audience to understand that
Scott approves.
Mark Hill (21:34):
Well, and that is such a rare event.
Scott Weiner (21:38):
God is this therapist guy who just got very,
very nicely schooled by thefinancial guy, and I'm not
kidding. I'm not kidding. Andthat that little vignettes that
little to made, is somethingthat I plan to steal. For our
first couple for a couple thatwe're working on. It's like,
(21:58):
less, we
Shawn Weber (21:59):
can't really sometimes I
Unknown (22:00):
do really crazy, maniacal, musician, Brit that
Shawn Weber (22:07):
we work with? Yeah, well, he's pretty smart guy. He
is a is a wise man of divorce.
That's true. So, okay, so thenthere's, there's kind of the
emotional security, you're gonnabe okay. And I like what you
said about security, becausethere's also financial security.
Yep. I mean, a lot of times kidsare scared, if we're gonna have
enough money. Sometimes you seeme, you might see like, one of
(22:28):
the parties fretting over, dothey have enough money now?
Because they're having to divideeverything by two and it's going
to their cost of living is goingto be higher? Because they're
living in two separate houses?
Well, I knew what do you tellthe kids about that
Scott Weiner (22:40):
we could, we can be even a little. And it's not
dishonest right now, for us tobe to face some of the harsh
realities to there are timeswhen people really do wonder how
they're going to get by if theydivide things into those parents
are kind of they're kind ofgone. You know, if the kid were
gonna say, Well, are we going tolive in a nice house? I don't
(23:01):
know. I don't know. I don't knowhow it's gonna go down. But you
will have us you will have uswill be with you all the way.
You know, but, and we'll knowabout that. I want to know, can
I still live
Mark Hill (23:12):
and we're working on it. We'll keep you informed.
We're working on it. It's tough.
Neither one of us wanted this.
It's tough. We're trying to workit out with your best interests
at heart.
Shawn Weber (23:25):
Now, my
Mark Hill (23:26):
daughter, that's the message to convey.
Shawn Weber (23:28):
My daughter share this story about one of one of
her friends told her about theirparents, best friend, and it was
kind of emotional for and it wasthe child was talking to Dad,
can I have some money to go dothis activity or do whatever?
And he's like, I already payyour money, Mom enough child
(23:49):
support?
Unknown (23:52):
Oh, I've had that. I've had plenty of that.
Shawn Weber (23:56):
Or the in front of the kids or the inverse. Go ask
your dad or go ask your mom forthat money because I can't
afford it. Because I have, youknow, they're not paying me
enough child support.
Mark Hill (24:08):
So how does that happen? Because I'm going to
drag it back to process. Yeah,that's where there's a court
order been imposed. Where therehasn't been a discussion about
what are we going to do aboutthe kids extra curricular stuff.
We both want them to be able tobe on their sports teams. How
are we going to work this outhow we're going to make this
(24:29):
work? No, it probably one partywent for as much as they could
get and the other party tried topay as little as possible. And a
judge had to decide or they gotforced into a settlement
Shawn Weber (24:41):
where there was a win lose outcome. Exactly. And
so
Mark Hill (24:45):
there's resentment because they were not consulted
on this. How did the process itdoes.
Scott Weiner (24:51):
Sometimes this happens when there's just a lose
lose outcome because therereally isn't that much to start
with. And then they you know,
Shawn Weber (24:57):
let's be honest, most of the time it is lose
lose. Yeah. No. And what you'resaying mark is, is hey, you can
get into a process where you canhave an intelligent, thoughtful
discussion with your partnerabout how you're going to handle
the cash flow.
Mark Hill (25:14):
So that when it comes up with the children, you don't
get knocked into a corner andstart blaming the other party.
Yeah, because you have had a youhave a plan, you have a plan how
to deal with the inevitablebecause trust me, if you've
raising children, in theirteenage years, their demands
will become financiallysurprising.
Scott Weiner (25:35):
Well, I think you are an incredibly positive
person. And that's one of thethings I've seen there be all
the planning and all of the Imean, a really good agreement.
And one of those people is stillJoneses, for approving. Yes,
(25:56):
yeah. It's like, you know, sothese things are still going to
come up. But I mean, the best wecan do is to help these people,
not become nasty litigants, andhelp them at least create the
best plan. And there's a betterchance doing it that way that
(26:18):
the kid asks for something or,you know, and it's a lot, you
know, and even if even if Maryor Fred are really thinking,
Well, if that son of a gun, it'slike, you know, what, we have a,
we have a way to work this out,we'll see. Even if they bring it
back, you know, and mediate out,you know, who's going to pay for
the expensive ballet? Or who'sgonna pay for the expensive
(26:40):
traveling football team orsomething like that? How are we
going to do that? We didn'tanticipate that. You know, and
it might not be possible forthem to do it. It might Yeah.
Mark Hill (26:50):
Yeah. Sometimes there is, you know, a negative impact
on the children inevitably,because two homes cost more than
one, I get it. But children whodon't know, are children who are
more likely to be challenging towork with children. Who had this
(27:11):
information? In other words,they they, because a lot of its
peer pressure. We're all goingon the field trip? What do you
mean, you're not going on thefield trip? Because your mom's
broke? You know, there's peerpressure there. So helping the
child prepare for things,setting expectations, giving the
child help the child have aplan? I don't know. Maybe I'm
(27:36):
just overly positive?
Shawn Weber (27:38):
Well, I think I think there's reasons to be
positive. I think I think thebig takeaway is many fold. One
is, it's not a good idea toshare nastiness about the other
person with the kid. All thatdoes is hurt the kid all that
does is like a boomerangingarrow. Right. Yeah.
Mark Hill (27:54):
Well, and in the long, yeah, they won't benefit
you in the long run.
Shawn Weber (27:58):
And actually, it will poison your relationship
with. Yeah, there's that that'svery toxic behavior. So don't do
it. Okay. So number two, it isimportant to share some things
with the child and help themfeel secure and safe, relieve
their anxieties. They're there.
They're safe with their parents,they're going to be safe with
their money. And they have asafe place to go emotionally.
(28:20):
Yep. Right. What else do weneed? What else Oh, and and
there are processes that aremore conducive to that
conversation going well thanother processes. So adversarial
process is where you go to courtand go to war and condition
yourself to hate your spouse andnot talk to each other. It is
(28:40):
then harder to be on the samepage, as your co parent, when
it's now time to work with yourchild.
Scott Weiner (28:52):
Or be at the same outing where your child is or
their same activity. It's likeall of that. So
Shawn Weber (28:58):
find a process that encourages cooperation and
collaboration, as opposed to aprocess that encourages
animosity, and adversarialinteractions.
Mark Hill (29:09):
And if it's age appropriate, make your children
aware of what you and yourspouse are doing, to try to
create an environment that workfor them.
Shawn Weber (29:19):
We love you so much. Exactly. Hey, Mark Hills
exorbitant to help us figure outand I'm joking, but in all
honesty, we're trying we'reworking with a financial
professional to help us figureout and make sure that we're
still on track to make sure thatyour your college is is squared
away. Yeah, something like,yeah, exactly. You know, yeah,
(29:42):
yep. Or we're meeting with thispsychologist. In fact, we're
going to invite you to come meetwith this person. And so we can
talk about how our family isgoing to work after the divorce
because our family isn't ending.
We're all still here and we allstill love you. And you have two
parents that love you verydearly, and we want to make sure
that we do this in a way thatmakes a lot of sense for you and
it's good for you.
Unknown (30:03):
Right, my ads?
Shawn Weber (30:05):
Well, Somebody oughta.
Mark Hill (30:11):
Okay. I think we may have done it again.
Unknown (30:14):
I think so. Well, I think so.
Shawn Weber (30:16):
I think so i Good.
Good talk kids. Yeah.
Scott Weiner (30:21):
So seasonal too, by the way, you know, there's
getting getting through Junethrough the holidays. Oh, boy.
That's probably our next one.
Let's talk about the
Shawn Weber (30:33):
Well, I mean, in the case we're talking about
there's that wrinkle of, well,what do we do at Christmas? We
haven't told them yet. Wepretend. Yeah. So that could be
another whole whole discussion.
So, Scott, yes. If they haven'tread your advertising material
that you've so carefullydrafted? Well,
Scott Weiner (30:53):
you know, I'm waiting for you to set me up
with a website. Actually, Idon't have one, I have a phone.
And that is how I connect withmy universe. And my name is
Scott Weiner. And I'm apsychologist Solana Beach.
619-417-5743. And I answered myown self.
Mark Hill (31:16):
All right. Well, you can look at our website. Our
company name is specific divorcemanagement, they website is pack
divorce.com. We do have a phonenumber on there. And yes, we
have been known to answer thetelephone too. But also there is
a contact form on there. Ifyou'd like to learn more.
Unknown (31:36):
Did you get that working? Apparently, we did.
Mark Hill (31:39):
Good told it is operational.
Shawn Weber (31:42):
So I can actually send you an email.
Mark Hill (31:45):
You can date you can write as long as you're not a
robot to have to prove you'renot a robot
Shawn Weber (31:54):
I website to certify that you're not a robot.
Exactly.
Unknown (31:58):
I think he's vaguely real.
Mark Hill (32:01):
Well, you're in the same room with him. So you would
know that unless I'm a robot
Unknown (32:05):
to. He is quite real to me. Me. Well.
Shawn Weber (32:11):
Oh my gosh. Well, if you have any kind of legal
dispute, you could go to mywebsite, Weber dispute
resolution.com where we willmatch you with a mediator that
can help you resolve yourdispute that is Weber dispute.
resolution.com Weber with one B.
Scott Weiner (32:30):
Okay, folks, good to speak with you great
holidays. But there's a lot moreto talk about. Bye. Bye bye.
Shawn Weber (32:39):
Thanks for listening to another episode of
the three Wiseman of divorce,money, Psych, and law. If you
liked what you heard, be sure tosubscribe. Leave us a review and
share with others who may be ina similar place. Until next
time, stay safe, healthy andfocused on a positive bright
future. This podcast is forinformational purposes only.
(33:04):
Every family law case is unique.
So no legal, financial or mentalhealth advice is intended during
this podcast. If you need helpwith your specific situation,
feel free to schedule a time tospeak with one of us for a
personal consultation.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.