September 12, 2023 • 41 mins
In our latest Conversation on The Truth in this Art Podcast 🎙️, we get up close and personal with Steve Hackman, the visionary composer and conductor melding classical and contemporary genres like a maestro magician.
What's Inside:
🎵 An intimate dive into Steve's artistic influences and how they shape his groundbreaking fusions, from Drake and Tchaikovsky to hip-hop and rock.
🎼 A deep look into the role of a conductor, where Steve discusses the essential skills that elevate his artistry.
🔎 An exploration of Steve's creative methodology, offering insights into the challenges and rewards of merging disparate musical worlds.
🌐 A glimpse into Steve's latest projects that push the boundaries of musical convention.
Don't skip this evocative Conversation. Click the link below to subscribe and join us as we redefine what's possible in the music world 🎧✌️.
🌟 Your Ratings and Reviews help us amplify voices that challenge and inspire—don't forget to leave yours! 🌟
Host: Rob Lee
Music: Original music by Daniel Alexis Music with additional music from Chipzard and TeTresSeis.
Production:
- Produced by Rob Lee & Daniel Alexis
- Edited by Daniel Alexis
- Show Notes courtesy of Rob Lee and Transistor
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob Lee (00:10):
Welcome to The Truth in This Art. I am your host, Rob
Lee. And today, I am delightedto be in conversation with my
next guest. He's a visionarycomposer, conductor, producer,
and songwriter redefining artmusic in the 21st century.
Please welcome Steve Hackman.
Welcome to the podcast.
Steve Hackman (00:29):
Yeah. Great to be here, mister Rob Lee. Thanks for
having me.
Rob Lee (00:32):
Thank you for for coming on. And, we were able to,
chat a little bit. And, youknow, I don't know if you watch,
like, a lot of movies, but, youknow, think of those sort of,
like, crime drama movies, youknow, where it's like they have,
like, the threads going from onepoint to another. That's what I
feel like I've been doing forthe last, like, 6 months in
preparing for this interview.
Steve Hackman (00:52):
Oh, wow. Oh, gosh. I don't know where that
where that's taking you. We wemaybe we could go get into that,
but that's fine.
Rob Lee (00:59):
So, I want to start off, you know, by, you know,
opening up a little bit to giveyou the space to share a bit
about your background. And Ihave a secondary questionnaire,
but I at least want to start offwith a bit about your background
and, you know, just give youthat introductory space.
Steve Hackman (01:14):
Well, sure. Well, yeah, as as you said, I'm I'm a
a composer, conductor, you know,producer. I really focus on
this, the space in betweenclassical and cohesive ways of
bringing them together. And, youknow, again, hopefully, pushing
art for music forward in thiskinda multigenre way. You know,
(01:38):
I guess multigenre is is a goodsetup for my background, or
maybe better put you know, I I Igrew up agnostically when it
came to music.
I didn't grow up in a musicalhousehold, per se. Neither of my
parents are professionalmusicians, though my dad plays
the the classical guitar, youknow, as a for as a hobby. But,
(02:00):
you know, they didn't reallyplay music in the house, but I
discovered it, through some kindof, cassettes and records that
my my dad had. And then theybought a piano when I was 7
because my sister was showinginterest in in music. And I just
sort of started to play it byear, and that was the beginning
for me.
And, you know, they they signedme up for piano lessons from the
(02:22):
local piano teacher, and I Ijust I was able to develop skill
pretty quickly in the piano, andI I I showed some some, natural
talent for it. And, you know,then fast forward to high
school, I I really got involvedin the the choir program and
singing and, arranging music. Iformed my own quartet. I was in
the musicals, the show choir,the All State choir, all that
(02:44):
stuff, and that's that's reallywhen it occurred to me maybe,
you know, music could be acareer for me. I think it was
first at All State Choir that Ijust had this feeling.
I can I can, you know, rememberit like it was yesterday of of,
you know, sitting there with allthese talented singers under
this wonderful conductor we hadand making music altogether, and
(03:04):
that was the the first time I Isort of, the magic of making
music as a community at a highlevel was sort of revealed to
me? Wow. And, you know, butstill at this time, I'm not
studying classically really at ain a serious way. That didn't
come for me until, my undergradyears at U of I and then sorry.
(03:25):
I'm getting, like, prettydetailed here, so I don't know
if this is what you're lookingfor.
Rob Lee (03:28):
No. No. No. This is like here here's the thing.
Like, you're doing the movewhere you got, like, the first
two questions, so that's good.
I like it. Please get down.
Steve Hackman (03:36):
Okay. Okay. Well, I got really lucky because I
went to the University ofIllinois really to be in an
acapella group. There was asinging group there called The
Other Guys that I had seen, andand they just they were my
heroes, and I wanted to be inthis group. We toured all around
the country and even to Europeand all that, and I ended up,
you know, winning an audition tobe in that group.
(03:57):
But, the real kind of,fortuitous event for me was was
the piano teacher. GustavoRomero was his name. It was his
1st year teaching. He had beentrained at Juilliard at at, the
precollege level undergrad andgraduate. He had won the Clara
Haskell piano competition, andhe's a pianist of genius.
And he opened my world up toclassical music, And, I I just
(04:22):
fell head over heels and becameobsessed with it and, became
very driven to make a career inclassical music. And it was in
those summers when I was at HugoBay that I went to the Aspen
Music Festival and then fell inlove with the orchestra and
started to think, you know,conducting could be the road for
me. And I had, I had I had donea lot of, you know, conducting,
(04:46):
arranging, you know, even inhigh school, like, teachers were
asking me that I cannot takecharge with things, and then, of
course, in my undergrad, withthat acapella group and the
choir I was in, and I thoughtthis could be for me. So that's
what kind of opened, opened thatup, and Curtis and Juilliard
were the the the places I wantedto go. I thought it was that was
a studio that I think I couldfit in, and I thought I had the
(05:07):
right kind of, attributes andskills to get in there.
And, you know, luckily, I didand and kind of, that that set
up all the rest.
Rob Lee (05:15):
Thank you. That that is perfect. Literally, you're
making my job easier over here,so shout out to you. And thank
you for for sharing and givingus that, that background and
that extra flourish going in. Iwanted to to go back a little
bit And, you know, so I I findthat, you know, it might it it
may not necessarily be somethingthat's close to what we're
(05:38):
doing.
Give you an example. So let'ssay, you know, early on, I can
kind of look back to, you know,when I was first interested in
recording audio. Right. For likea podcast, proto podcasting, if
you will. And, you know, butthat that really wasn't the
thing that had my initialinterest.
Like, I was into I want to be acomic book artist. You know what
(05:59):
I mean? It's my firstintroduction to creativity. And
that's what everything was forme. And, you know, it was like a
roadblock that happenedcreatively.
It was rejection, and I couldn'treally cope. And I kind of moved
into the writing side of thingsand sharing voice and so on And,
always kind of look back atthat, and I was able to revisit
(06:20):
the comic thing, but in adifferent way. So in looking
back, were were there any othersort of, like, creative interest
that you had, growing up that itit might influence how you
approach, like, your work today?
Steve Hackman (06:32):
Well, you know, it was it was kind of always
music, I will say, but I canabsolutely relate to the idea
that it's the rejections thatwill shape us, you know, much
more than the acceptances. I'm afirm believer in that, and and
(06:56):
that has, you know, has beenquite a prominent storyline for
me. You know, I guess I guessthe biggest acceptance I had,
you know, was kind of, you know,getting into Curtis. That that,
of course, changed my life. Butthere's been so many rejections,
(07:18):
and what rejection forces us todo is, have that gut check
moment where we ask ourselvesand we look ourselves very
honestly in the mirror and say,well, what was the reason for
that?
You know, why why didn't I winthat job? Why why, you know, why
(07:40):
why didn't I get in, or or whywasn't I chosen? And do I really
want this badly enough to do thehard work, of correcting those
things and improving thoseskills? Or am I do I have a
different idea of of who I amhere? And do I need to make an
adjustment there and and sort ofrethink what the plan is?
Rob Lee (08:03):
Yeah. That's that's that's great. I I I do that sort
of check-in regularly, you know,where it may be, I don't know,
like I find that some people,they look, they
find those sort of imperfections and those quirks
because they're part of theirown process. Right. It's like,
hey, I know
And, you know, kind of looking for when that that mix
up happens. And And, you know,kind of looking for when that
(08:27):
that mix up happens, when thatkind of like, oh, wow, let me
check back in with myself. Isthis something I'm really doing?
Is this the way I want to goabout this and so on? And it's
always sort of this thisconsistent check-in just to make
sure that, you know, at leastfrom from what I'm doing, and I
think a lot of folks do this,just making sure that we're on
point, you know?
Steve Hackman (08:48):
Of course. Well and, you know, in success, we
oftentimes aren't going to be asanalytical as we should be in
failure. I mean, often, it'sprobably always that that the
case. You know? It's it's avery, I think, special and
driven and determined personthat, can be as analytical in,
(09:09):
in both situations.
Rob Lee (09:11):
It's great. I 100% agree. And I have a data
background outside of this, sodefinitely start saying
analytics like, yeah, tell methat SQL script. Tell me more.
So in going back to like sort oftraining and education as such,
is there like a moment thatreally like sticks out that, you
know, was sort of that indicatorof success or even sort of like
(09:34):
those challenging moments alongthe path that you had to do that
that gut check?
And, you know, could you shutthat set that stage for us?
Steve Hackman (09:43):
Definitely. I think well, the first pivotal
moment I'll mention was atCurtis, during my 1st year of
studies. And, I was my degreefrom Curtis is in orchestral
conducting.
Rob Lee (09:58):
Mhmm.
Steve Hackman (09:59):
We had a a teacher, my first semester at
Curtis, doctor Ford Lauerstedt,who taught us, I believe at that
point in time, the seminar hetaught was on, kind of score
reading, I think. You know?Though, classes with him became
so unbelievably far ranging. Hewas just one of those kind of
(10:23):
brilliant and and and, justspecial, educators. So, anyway,
it was all composers andconductors in this class, all 5
of us.
You know, Curtis is only a 165students. So I think there were
5, students in the class. 3conductors, 2 composers, I think
it was that time. And the classbefore the holiday break, I was
(10:48):
the only person that showed up.And by this time, you know, 1st
semesters are short as as youmight recall, and and, but in
the couple months of class, Ithink doctor and I had already
kind of developed a bit of arapport, and we both knew there
was something going on, witheach other.
You know? Like, and I I lovethis teacher right away, though
(11:12):
we hadn't yet had a had a chanceto connect, in in a deeper
meaningful way. So I'm the onlyperson that shows up that day,
and he says, okay. Alright.Nobody else is here.
What is your story? Like, whatis going on here? You know?
Because in my 1st semester atCurtis, to be honest, I think
(11:34):
maybe just as the the as adefense mechanism, maybe I
because I was just scared out ofmy mind, maybe in over my head.
I I behaved in a way that, andand I dressed in a way that,
like, well, let me say I I Ididn't I wasn't shy about the
fact that I was different.
I mean, I would carry abasketball with me to to class.
(11:57):
You know? Like, I would wear myheadphones. Like, I wanted all
these classical musicians tosort of know, like, I came from,
like, somewhere else. I I don'task me why.
I don't know. Anyway, he kindasaid, what's your story? What do
you wanna do? Like, what are youdoing here? And, I said I
started to talk about my ownmusic, and and the music I was
(12:17):
writing, and the acapella groupthat I, directed in college and
the the pieces that I hadarranged for them, and and he
was like, oh, I wanna hear that.
So I,
Rob Lee (12:25):
you
Steve Hackman (12:25):
know, it was only a few blocks from my apartment.
I ran home to my apartment. Igrabbed a CD. I brought it back.
He popped it in.
He listens to it, and he says,what are you what are you doing
here? Like if you if this iswhat you wanna do and you're
writing music like this, whydon't you just move to LA now
and just go go do this? And Iwas like, what you talking
(12:48):
about? I wanna be a conductor.You know?
I wanna be be a classicalmusician. And he's like,
alright. Okay. So he he marchesme down. This is all the way up
on the 3rd floor of Curtis.
We go down all the staircases.He marches me down to the dean's
office, and he says to the Dean,Robert Fitzpatrick was our Dean
(13:08):
at the time. He's now passed on.And he says to Fitzpatrick, take
Steve out of all out of all hismusical studies classes. I will
teach him all of themindividually.
So theory, ear training,counterpoint, all that. He said
take them out. And I'll neverforget Fitzpatrick's look
(13:31):
because he you know, I couldtell that he had a little bit of
misgivings. Like, I don't knowif these guys should be, like,
conspiring. But there was apause and he said, Okay.
And from that day on, I mean,Ford cultivated my my ear for
counterpoint, my ability to tocompose my creative side. And if
(13:53):
I didn't, Ford Lauer said,sorry, this is his first name,
if I didn't have that at Curtis,none of the things I was doing
I'm doing now would would bepossible. I mean, he completely
fostered, encouraged, anddeveloped my creative voice
while I was getting that verykinda old school traditional
classical training on theconducting side. And to this
(14:16):
day, he's my musical mentor andI still study with him. Another
really long answer.
I'm sorry.
Rob Lee (14:22):
No. No need to be sorry. I I love it. This is
great, and you're a storyteller.I noticed that in a few of the
instances in watching you doyour thing, and I definitely
appreciate it.
It's less work for me. Yeah.
Steve Hackman (14:37):
Well, I hope people aren't, like, bored other
minds, but
Rob Lee (14:39):
They shouldn't be. This this one might be a shorter or
longer answer to this question.But this this one is goes like
this. So shifting to more of theyour work these days or your
philosophy on things these daysis a conductor more of a leader,
facilitator, director or coach?And why do you think you think
(15:03):
that?
And I'll even add in I wasthinking about it. You mentioned
basketball earlier. I was like,are they the point guard? That
was the other thing I startedthinking about. I wasn't sure.
But yeah. So what are yourthoughts on that, the role of a
conductor out, in in thoseterms?
Steve Hackman (15:17):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I I kinda see leader and
director as, you know, kinda oneof the same. Those seem very
synonymous unless unless you areyou thinking more of director
from a film standpoint?
Rob Lee (15:28):
From, yeah, from a film standpoint. Yeah.
Steve Hackman (15:30):
Well, all those things. Absolutely all those
things. Yes. I think and and asfar as the, you know, the the
kind of basketball analogy,definitely more the coach. I
would say your point guard isyour concert master.
But but listen. The the bestleaders, know how to inspire,
(15:53):
and I I think professionalsports is a is a really apt
analogy here because especiallyat the highest level, orchestras
can do this on their own. Imean, you know, these are
incredibly capable musicians.Yeah. You need somebody to start
them, stop them, you know, givesome cues, make sure that the
(16:15):
the tuba that is 40 feet away isin time with the, you know, the
very back of the second violin,which is all the way on the
other side of the stage.
So, yeah, the stick isimportant. Like, I'm not saying
that the job's not important,but what's the what is I think
what the value that a conductorcan really add is that
(16:35):
inspiration, and professionalathletes are the same way. You
know, you assemble 5 of thegreatest basketball players and
put them on a court, you know,they they can execute. I mean,
wasn't it I mean, this is funnybecause it wasn't a Kyrie Irving
that when they were you know,it's like Kyrie and, I think
James Harden and and, oh, andand Durant. They were all
together, and Kyrie was like, wedon't need a coach.
(16:57):
We could do this ourselves.Like, we got the we have 3 of
the best players in the world.But what was revealed, you do
need a coach, you know, becausea coach is what can inspire them
to go beyond what they could do,you know, left to their own
means if they're if they'releading themselves. I mean, they
could provide that leadership,that direction, that
encouragement, that inspiration,whatever you wanna call it, and
(17:17):
that's what the greatestconductors, you know, that the
and the that we have seen andthat my heroes have done, and
that's what, of course, I hopeto do.
Rob Lee (17:26):
Yeah. That's that was that was a great answer. And,
see, a short a shorter answer.And you actually knocked out the
the following questions. So,see, I think we're making we're
making up time because becausetime my time there, Steve.
Steve Hackman (17:39):
I mean, there's you know, the the technical
thing of conducting is, ofcourse, we can talk about, you
know, what what the what the jobis, so to speak. But in the end,
like, the the thing that so fewof them can do is is inspire,
inspire the best musicians inthe world to to go beyond what
they would they could be thatthey would be doing, you know,
(18:02):
left to their own devices and goto a place, that that maybe
previously thought of asunattainable place. You know,
that's what the great ones can
Rob Lee (18:11):
do. So so in that vein, talk talk about the the job. And
I and, definitely, I'm I'mhearing the, you know, inspiring
and the leadership component andall. But what are some of those
sort of, like, key skills orattributes maybe from a
personality standpoint, from atechnical standpoint that the
great ones possess?
Steve Hackman (18:27):
Did you say key attributes?
Rob Lee (18:28):
Yes.
Steve Hackman (18:30):
Right. Right. Well, did you want to talk to
the the on the technical side,or do you want to talk more on
the sort of emotional leadershipside?
Rob Lee (18:40):
Let's talk about let's talk about both, actually.
Steve Hackman (18:43):
Well, on the technical side, it it's I'll
make another sports analogy. Youknow? They they say, and I and I
love sports for this reason.Well, I I love sports, but,
there's just so many parallels.You know, they say in the
National Football League, thequarterbacks are so important,
and you need a quarterback thatcan make all the throws, quote,
unquote, you know, that that canexecute the entire playbook.
(19:06):
And that's that's a that's afirst rate conductor. You know,
somebody that can, handle alldifferent, you know, periods of
music, especially the ones, ofcourse, in the common practice,
which is, you know, from fromBaroque, let's say, then up to,
you know, 21st century music,that has a stick technique that
(19:31):
is clear. I mean, clarity is thethe most important thing. So
because that's your number onejob, you know, to to start and
stop the musicians, together, toget them to play together and so
that they know where you are inthe b pattern at all times, and
you can lead efficiently andeffectively. I'd say clarity is
(19:53):
number 1, technically.
Communication is, of course,key, and I would say the more
you can communicate nonverbally,the better. You know, not that
you can't speak in aninspirational or instructive way
to an orchestra, but the moreyou have the more you can show
(20:14):
without talking, the morethey'll appreciate you. And
frankly, the more conductingtechnique you have if you're
able to show it, withoutstopping. And that's always
that's always a challengemyself. Watch walking into any
rehearsal, I'm always askingmyself, okay.
Because, you know, I'll I'llmaybe I'll be expecting the
(20:35):
spots that might be tricky orthe spots where they might have
a question about, okay, how doesthis conductor do this certain
passage? What's his his or hertempo, etcetera? So I'll be
saying to myself, how can Iexecute that without talking?
Can I get through that withoutstopping? Yeah.
So that's that's you know, timemanagement is a huge thing
because we're all always pressedfor time, and, there's so much
(20:56):
to do in so little timerehearsal wise. Yeah. Those
would be the technical sides.
Rob Lee (21:04):
Yeah.
Steve Hackman (21:05):
The inspirational side is is more, I would say
that's more kinda universal toany any leader. You know, do do
they just have that that sortof, that that thing that that
thing that's hard to describe,that inspirational quality,
(21:26):
that, that spark, that magic,you know, whatever you wanna
call it. Are they Are theygenerous? And just as a human,
is it about them or is it aboutthe music? Because that's a big
(21:46):
pitfall as well, especially whenyou're standing up there and all
these people are looking at youand all that.
So there's all that as well.Yeah. Thank
Rob Lee (21:54):
you. That's that's great. It's a great answer. So I
wanna I wanna shift to creativeprocess a bit. You know, talking
from, you know, obviously, youknow, the feet, the fusion
component, the conductingcomponent, the songwriting
component, like walk us throughlike what a day in the life of
Steve Hackman looks like from acreation and process standpoint.
Steve Hackman (22:19):
Well, the more creation and and process there
are on a day, the better the dayis. I'll tell you that.
Rob Lee (22:25):
You know?
Steve Hackman (22:26):
The, we're we're speaking right now in a period
of tremendous growth for for meand, for for my company. And so
there is a lot of, kind oflogistics and administration
and, kind of personnel that iskind of absorbing a lot of my
(22:48):
time, these days, but I alwaysgive the morning to creative
work. Well, not always, but I II try to give that first slot of
the day, to creative work, and,just depends what where we are
on the calendar, what that is.That could be writing the next
(23:09):
fusion show. That could besongwriting for the next kind of
original music production.
That could be in the studio,recording because I'm working on
an album. You know, but morning,definitely creative time, and
then usually creative time afterthe gym, like, at night is
always a great, creative period.Like, I go to the gym pretty
(23:31):
late and then, you know,there'll be another great few
hours at night. Yeah. And if Ican get in some some reading and
some listening, and of coursesome gym or some outdoor
activity, then it's a prettygood day.
Love to hear it. So in
Rob Lee (23:48):
in preparing for for the fusion, where where do you
where do you start? Like, talktalk about that, like, sort of,
you know, the starting of theprocess, something that's like
in the middle and like whenwe're getting to that point
where someone like myself wouldbe sitting there like, oh, wow.
This is great. This is amazing,and I'm marking out. So talk
about sort of the, you know, theidea to the actual, like,
(24:08):
execution within that processfor, the fusion.
Steve Hackman (24:12):
Yeah. I mean, well, that's a that's, that can
be a very, very long process.Could also be a short one. I
mean, resurrection mixtape, Iworked on and tinkered with for
a couple years. You know, BrahmsRadiohead was written in a few
weeks.
The Queen show was written in afew weeks. So it does vary. I
(24:32):
think as I've written more andmore and as I've developed the
technique more, as the showshave gotten more and more
involved and, lengthy andconceptual, the process has
lengthened. I'm I'm in the inthe process of, I would say,
(24:53):
just the the ideation phase forthe next one.
Rob Lee (24:57):
Yeah.
Steve Hackman (24:57):
And so that means I'm I'm just kind of it's almost
yeah. Again, I'm gonna use kindof an athletic, analogy here,
but if if when an athlete is ispreparing, you know, for whether
a big competition or a or a biggame or they're they're getting
into kind of, they're gettinginto shape for something.
(25:18):
They're in that training period.Like, I I in my mind, I know
that, like, maybe 6 months fromnow ish, I'll start writing the
the next one, which I've I'vekinda chosen. And so I just put
that music on, you know,occasionally, and I just I jot
down notes.
I flag songs. I playlist songs,etcetera. So as they've gotten
(25:43):
more involved, this kind ofpreproduction phase has gotten
lengthier and lengthier, likethe runway, so to speak. But
then when it starts, when thewriting starts, that's a very
improvisatory process. I mean,it it it will it will usually
start where I have a playlistand I have kinda material
selected already, and I'll hitthe piano.
(26:04):
And, again, let's say if we'retalking about the resurrection
mixtape, which is molar 2,Tupac, and Biggie, I just I open
up the score for the Mueller. Istart to play, and I've got
those songs in my mind. I'vealready got them sort of
memorized. I know what theirmusical content is because I've
gone through this, thisexploratory preproduction phase,
and, I just start to play. Istart to improvise and see where
(26:27):
things can be layered in, and,you know, that's the beginning.
And then eventually, you know, astructure starts to take place,
and I start to realize, okay,this song can go here. I'll
write a piece of this song here,you know, I get that that that
road map kind of starts tomaterialize, pretty quickly, and
then it's a matter of justrefining and iterating and
(26:47):
continuing to drill down all theindividual sections.
Rob Lee (26:50):
That's great. Thank you. Thank you. That that is,
it's good to get a peek into themind of, of the artist, of the
creative. So are there some,like, considerations in, like,
the sort of, like, thoughtprocess that goes into, you
know, fusing, like, you know,composition, fusing, music from
(27:11):
artists that may feel, like, tomany people, like, really
dissimilar.
But then for people who kinda,like, listen and have gone to
one of the shows and seen you doyour your thing and the sort of
the idea and the the story thatgoes along with it, it's like,
oh, no, this this makes sense.This absolutely makes sense. So
what are some of thoseconsiderations in the thinking
that goes into to just puttingtogether fusion and put it talk
(27:35):
about that a little bit?
Steve Hackman (27:36):
Well, I think that's that's sort of the point.
And, yes, it it may seem on theface of it that that, you know,
to an artist composer pairingis, is an unlikely one or is,
you know, not not the that maybethey're not the most well suited
(28:00):
to one another, but there'sgotta be a reason behind it. I
mean, I I I say often since I'vebeen doing this for this long,
and I've developed thetechnique, I mean, at this
point, anything is combinable.It's really just a question of
why, and just because you can doit doesn't mean you should. So I
(28:23):
would say I'm really guided bythat principle, and the reasons,
the why can be musical or theycould be amusical.
In the case of Brahms andRadiohead, it's actually both.
You know? There's there's greatdensity, to the music. They they
(28:46):
they they share some, they sharesome very basic qualities, like,
you know, time signature key,you know, key, etcetera. But,
again, any anything can sharethose.
But, there is, you know, theirtheir use of counterpoint, their
(29:06):
their, you know, theiradvancement is advancements in
harmony, etcetera. But thenbeyond that, there's then a
musical reasons. There's theemotional quality of the music.
And in, like, in the example ofBeethoven Coldplay, that was
less for musical reasons. Thatwas that was a musical reasons.
That was because I thought,these are both artists that deal
(29:30):
with these universal humanistqualities. They they both speak
to what it is to be on thisearth as a human being, you
know, love and loss and tragedyand triumph. And they they deal
with those in, magnificent waysthat gives their their music, a
(29:50):
very distinctive character. Sothat's why I wanted to combine
those. So, you know,resurrection mixtape, there's
the of course, that's that's athat's a Mueller's Symphony, the
second symphony, theresurrection that deals with the
concept of the afterlife andwhat is the afterlife.
And, of course, we lost Biggieand and Tupac tragically in the,
(30:12):
you know, in their when they're23, you know, year 24 years old.
And so, but they're enduring,and, they're everlasting. And so
they, through their their impacton pop culture and the world,
embody the idea of, you know,living eternally. You know? So
(30:35):
that that's the reason for thatone.
So they've all got, a myriad ofreasons.
Rob Lee (30:40):
Thank you. It's great. So I got one last real question,
and even the great Steve Hackmangets the rapid fire questions.
So I got a couple of those foryou after this last real one,
but I'll hit you with the realone. So as someone who is
consist constantly pushing theboundaries of music, how we like
kind of like, you know,understand maybe some of these,
(31:02):
like, you know, unexpectedcombinations and really painting
that picture.
What what projects do you havecoming up? I I know you touched
on, you know, we worked on thealbum. So what do you have
coming up in the next, let'ssay, you know, 6 6 3 to 6
months?
Steve Hackman (31:17):
Sure. A big focus of mine right now, that is being
pursued in tandem, of course,with all the fusion work
because, that calendar is full.And and as I said, I'm looking
forward to writing the next one,is my own original music and my
original voice. And, you know,one of my big goals this year
(31:40):
was to realize that originalvoice and to answer the
question, what is art music tome right now, and what is my
musical voice, and and whathappens when I use these
techniques that I've developedthrough the Fusion works of
which there are many, works andand techniques, and wonderful
experiences with incrediblemusicians and, and rich, rich
(32:05):
musical material. What happenswhen I filter my own musical
ideas, through those techniques?
What does that music sound like?What is it you know, what is
that experience? And, I realizedthat for the first time, couple
months ago with the brink, We wepremiered that on March 9th.
(32:26):
We're doing the 2nd installment,so part 2 in in, just a few
weeks away. That's in June 8th,so I'm fiendishly writing for
that right now.
And, that's tremendouslyfulfilling and exciting because
it truly feels like a journeysort of into the unknown, into
(32:46):
this kind of well, I I don'twanna I shouldn't qualify it in
any way. It's just I'm justtrying to realize my voice, and
that's a very fulfilling,activity, I think, for for
anybody. So grateful for thatright now.
Rob Lee (33:05):
Thank you. I'm I'm looking forward to what's next.
If I'm if I'm being reallyhonest, I'm looking forward to
it. You're definitely on thatthat list of, like, oh, he's
he's here? He's he's back inBaltimore?
I'm going. Where's where'swhere's my shirt? You know what
I mean?
Steve Hackman (33:19):
Oh, nice. Nice. That like like I said, I'm I'm
I'm tremendously grateful forwhat's happening there in
Baltimore, the BaltimoreSymphony and the the Fuse
series, and, yeah, to toeverybody that's come out and
and sort of that has sort ofadopted those concerts and and
now are kind of, like, you know,loyal fans of of that concert
(33:42):
series. I mean, it's prettyamazing what's happened there in
a short time.
Rob Lee (33:46):
Yeah. And I and I think that's where we'll we'll stop
with the real questions. And ifyou'll indulge me, I got a few
rapid fire questions for you.They're ridiculous. They're fun.
They're interesting. They may berelated to what what your
creative pursuits are, what yourwork is. But they're, you know,
a lot of times they just relateto who the person is because,
you know, the the the point ofme adding these in there is not
(34:07):
to do the gotcha thing oranything along those lines, but
it's to take, you know, peekbehind the curtain to show who
the person is, you know, versusthis sort of transactionary
thing that people do. Tell meabout your work. Bye.
No. Nobody wants to really let'slet's get into the person a
little bit. So here's here's myfirst one. This was the one I
wrote. Right?
When I was telling you aboutthe, Drake and Tchaikovsky, this
(34:31):
was the question I wrote. It'slike, conducting looks very
physical. After a night ofconducting, what is the source
part of your body?
Steve Hackman (34:39):
Shoulder. Yeah. Shoulder for sure.
Rob Lee (34:45):
You mentioned earlier sports. You're you're a big
sports fan. What what are whatare the 2 to 3 teams that you
support?
Steve Hackman (34:53):
Well, Duke Blue Devils Basketball, which I have
to qualify because, you know, alot of people are gonna groan
when they hear that, but my dadplayed basketball with coach k,
when they were in the armytogether. So we're huge Duke
fans. Chicago Bulls because I'mfrom Chicago. Yeah. And then I
(35:16):
kind of I'm a Tom Brady fan.
A lot of people are gonna groanat that one as well. I take a
lot of, flack for that, but I'mjust into the story of this guy
that, you know, was a 9throunder or whatever it was, you
know, drafted at the you know,had to wait to the bitter end of
the draft to to have his namecalled, and then he becomes the
(35:38):
greatest of all time. And he hejust that competitive fire that
he had for his entire career toto always be better. I mean,
same with Jordan, same with KobeBryant. I'm I'm, I've got the
Kobe Bryant book right on my,coffee table right now because
I'm sort of obsessed with Koberight now.
Man, like just a maniacalcompetitor. That that's those
(35:59):
are the ones those are are thethe people that I'm inspired by.
Rob Lee (36:04):
Thank you. That's that's great. So I know that in
in in in pardon my, like, lackof the the terminology, but,
obviously, each gesture whenyou're conducting has meaning in
a tent. Do you have a troll? Doyou ever get up there and do
something like this is not thegesture, but, you know, people
are trying to figure out whatwhat you mean?
You're just up there just kinda,like, doing umpire strikeout
(36:27):
moves and things of that naturewhen rehearsing is going on?
Steve Hackman (36:31):
No way. No way. Yeah. I mean, listen. They say
they say in the orchestrabusiness, a conductor are
already is stepping on thepodium with a deficit of
credibility.
Okay? That that just to give youan idea of kind of how how
professional orchestralmusicians view conductors, and
(36:52):
rightfully so because a lot oftimes, the person who's in front
of there in front of them has nobusiness being up there. So, I
take it serious very, very, veryseriously, the privilege to be
up there. And already, mydeficit of credibility is
probably greater because they'rethinking, who the hell is this
(37:12):
guy that's combining Mueller'ssecond Symphony with Tupac and
Biggie? And, I spent a lot ofyears digging myself out of
that.
So the last thing I'm going todo is you know, go up there and
make some superfluous or, youknow, kind of Charlotte and
gesture to them.
Rob Lee (37:31):
Thank you. This is this is the last one I got. I'm very
I'm very interested in whatfolks eat, but I want to do this
in the vein of sort ofunexpected combinations. Is
there like an unexpected, likefood combination or something
that's really unique that youenjoy, but people kind of give
you the side eye? It's like, Iguess the the apt combination
(37:51):
would be back in the day when aReese's Cup was first invented.
Why do you have your chocolatein my peanut butter and vice
versa? Do you have a, you know,unexpected combination when it
comes to food?
Steve Hackman (38:01):
Yeah. I would I'm a, people that know me well say
I eat kind of rabbit food, a lotof nuts, a lot of dried fruits,
a lot of peanut butter, and andalmonds. So I will put almonds
in just about anything,including, like, you know, like,
(38:26):
you know, chili or soup orsomething. I just love the
crunch of almonds. So that's athat's one where people are
like, yeah.
You're you're something wrongwith you.
Rob Lee (38:36):
That that's that's wild, actually. Almonds, I I I
didn't think of that, but, I I'ma texture guy as well, so I
definitely,
Steve Hackman (38:42):
understand, like, maybe having that that crunch in
there.
Rob Lee (38:42):
And, I've been putting lot of stuff recently. I wanna
have a talk with that. Carrypowder's going.
Steve Hackman (38:53):
Yeah. There you go. I'm okay with that. I I will
try that. I'm a big spice guyfor sure.
And heat. I mean, I like a lotof heat.
Rob Lee (39:01):
Bring in the heat, and, we're we're going nuts here. So
I I think that's it. I thinkthat's it for the pod. So one, I
wanna thank you. I wanna thankyou truly.
Thank you for coming on to thispodcast and spending some time
with me. And 2, I'm going toinvite and encourage you to
share with the listeners whereyou can check out all things
Steve Hackman updates, website,social media, all of that good
(39:22):
stuff. The floor is yours.
Steve Hackman (39:24):
Well, sure. Yeah. No. Thank you, Rob, for having
me. It's been a terrificdiscussion.
Instagram is the best way, toget the the the most updated
content. My Instagram is SteveHackman music, and then website,
of course, stevehackman.com.Those are the two ways.
Rob Lee (39:43):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Steve
Hackman Man for coming on to thepodcast. And I'm Rob Lee saying
that there's art and culture inand around your neck of the
woods. You've just got to lookfor
Steve Hackman (40:01):
it.
Welcome to The Truth in This Art. I am your host, Rob
Lee. And today, I am delightedto be in conversation with my
next guest. He's a visionarycomposer, conductor, producer,
and songwriter redefining artmusic in the 21st century.
Please welcome Steve Hackman.
Welcome to the podcast.
Steve Hackman (00:29):
Yeah. Great to be here, mister Rob Lee. Thanks for
having me.
Rob Lee (00:32):
Thank you for for coming on. And, we were able to,
chat a little bit. And, youknow, I don't know if you watch,
like, a lot of movies, but, youknow, think of those sort of,
like, crime drama movies, youknow, where it's like they have,
like, the threads going from onepoint to another. That's what I
feel like I've been doing forthe last, like, 6 months in
preparing for this interview.
Steve Hackman (00:52):
Oh, wow. Oh, gosh. I don't know where that
where that's taking you. We wemaybe we could go get into that,
but that's fine.
Rob Lee (00:59):
So, I want to start off, you know, by, you know,
opening up a little bit to giveyou the space to share a bit
about your background. And Ihave a secondary questionnaire,
but I at least want to start offwith a bit about your background
and, you know, just give youthat introductory space.
Steve Hackman (01:14):
Well, sure. Well, yeah, as as you said, I'm I'm a
a composer, conductor, you know,producer. I really focus on
this, the space in betweenclassical and cohesive ways of
bringing them together. And, youknow, again, hopefully, pushing
art for music forward in thiskinda multigenre way. You know,
(01:38):
I guess multigenre is is a goodsetup for my background, or
maybe better put you know, I I Igrew up agnostically when it
came to music.
I didn't grow up in a musicalhousehold, per se. Neither of my
parents are professionalmusicians, though my dad plays
the the classical guitar, youknow, as a for as a hobby. But,
(02:00):
you know, they didn't reallyplay music in the house, but I
discovered it, through some kindof, cassettes and records that
my my dad had. And then theybought a piano when I was 7
because my sister was showinginterest in in music. And I just
sort of started to play it byear, and that was the beginning
for me.
And, you know, they they signedme up for piano lessons from the
(02:22):
local piano teacher, and I Ijust I was able to develop skill
pretty quickly in the piano, andI I I showed some some, natural
talent for it. And, you know,then fast forward to high
school, I I really got involvedin the the choir program and
singing and, arranging music. Iformed my own quartet. I was in
the musicals, the show choir,the All State choir, all that
(02:44):
stuff, and that's that's reallywhen it occurred to me maybe,
you know, music could be acareer for me. I think it was
first at All State Choir that Ijust had this feeling.
I can I can, you know, rememberit like it was yesterday of of,
you know, sitting there with allthese talented singers under
this wonderful conductor we hadand making music altogether, and
(03:04):
that was the the first time I Isort of, the magic of making
music as a community at a highlevel was sort of revealed to
me? Wow. And, you know, butstill at this time, I'm not
studying classically really at ain a serious way. That didn't
come for me until, my undergradyears at U of I and then sorry.
(03:25):
I'm getting, like, prettydetailed here, so I don't know
if this is what you're lookingfor.
Rob Lee (03:28):
No. No. No. This is like here here's the thing.
Like, you're doing the movewhere you got, like, the first
two questions, so that's good.
I like it. Please get down.
Steve Hackman (03:36):
Okay. Okay. Well, I got really lucky because I
went to the University ofIllinois really to be in an
acapella group. There was asinging group there called The
Other Guys that I had seen, andand they just they were my
heroes, and I wanted to be inthis group. We toured all around
the country and even to Europeand all that, and I ended up,
you know, winning an audition tobe in that group.
(03:57):
But, the real kind of,fortuitous event for me was was
the piano teacher. GustavoRomero was his name. It was his
1st year teaching. He had beentrained at Juilliard at at, the
precollege level undergrad andgraduate. He had won the Clara
Haskell piano competition, andhe's a pianist of genius.
And he opened my world up toclassical music, And, I I just
(04:22):
fell head over heels and becameobsessed with it and, became
very driven to make a career inclassical music. And it was in
those summers when I was at HugoBay that I went to the Aspen
Music Festival and then fell inlove with the orchestra and
started to think, you know,conducting could be the road for
me. And I had, I had I had donea lot of, you know, conducting,
(04:46):
arranging, you know, even inhigh school, like, teachers were
asking me that I cannot takecharge with things, and then, of
course, in my undergrad, withthat acapella group and the
choir I was in, and I thoughtthis could be for me. So that's
what kind of opened, opened thatup, and Curtis and Juilliard
were the the the places I wantedto go. I thought it was that was
a studio that I think I couldfit in, and I thought I had the
(05:07):
right kind of, attributes andskills to get in there.
And, you know, luckily, I didand and kind of, that that set
up all the rest.
Rob Lee (05:15):
Thank you. That that is perfect. Literally, you're
making my job easier over here,so shout out to you. And thank
you for for sharing and givingus that, that background and
that extra flourish going in. Iwanted to to go back a little
bit And, you know, so I I findthat, you know, it might it it
may not necessarily be somethingthat's close to what we're
(05:38):
doing.
Give you an example. So let'ssay, you know, early on, I can
kind of look back to, you know,when I was first interested in
recording audio. Right. For likea podcast, proto podcasting, if
you will. And, you know, butthat that really wasn't the
thing that had my initialinterest.
Like, I was into I want to be acomic book artist. You know what
(05:59):
I mean? It's my firstintroduction to creativity. And
that's what everything was forme. And, you know, it was like a
roadblock that happenedcreatively.
It was rejection, and I couldn'treally cope. And I kind of moved
into the writing side of thingsand sharing voice and so on And,
always kind of look back atthat, and I was able to revisit
(06:20):
the comic thing, but in adifferent way. So in looking
back, were were there any othersort of, like, creative interest
that you had, growing up that itit might influence how you
approach, like, your work today?
Steve Hackman (06:32):
Well, you know, it was it was kind of always
music, I will say, but I canabsolutely relate to the idea
that it's the rejections thatwill shape us, you know, much
more than the acceptances. I'm afirm believer in that, and and
(06:56):
that has, you know, has beenquite a prominent storyline for
me. You know, I guess I guessthe biggest acceptance I had,
you know, was kind of, you know,getting into Curtis. That that,
of course, changed my life. Butthere's been so many rejections,
(07:18):
and what rejection forces us todo is, have that gut check
moment where we ask ourselvesand we look ourselves very
honestly in the mirror and say,well, what was the reason for
that?
You know, why why didn't I winthat job? Why why, you know, why
(07:40):
why didn't I get in, or or whywasn't I chosen? And do I really
want this badly enough to do thehard work, of correcting those
things and improving thoseskills? Or am I do I have a
different idea of of who I amhere? And do I need to make an
adjustment there and and sort ofrethink what the plan is?
Rob Lee (08:03):
Yeah. That's that's that's great. I I I do that sort
of check-in regularly, you know,where it may be, I don't know,
like I find that some people,they look, they
find those sort of imperfections and those quirks
because they're part of theirown process. Right. It's like,
hey, I know
And, you know, kind of looking for when that that mix
up happens. And And, you know,kind of looking for when that
(08:27):
that mix up happens, when thatkind of like, oh, wow, let me
check back in with myself. Isthis something I'm really doing?
Is this the way I want to goabout this and so on? And it's
always sort of this thisconsistent check-in just to make
sure that, you know, at leastfrom from what I'm doing, and I
think a lot of folks do this,just making sure that we're on
point, you know?
Steve Hackman (08:48):
Of course. Well and, you know, in success, we
oftentimes aren't going to be asanalytical as we should be in
failure. I mean, often, it'sprobably always that that the
case. You know? It's it's avery, I think, special and
driven and determined personthat, can be as analytical in,
(09:09):
in both situations.
Rob Lee (09:11):
It's great. I 100% agree. And I have a data
background outside of this, sodefinitely start saying
analytics like, yeah, tell methat SQL script. Tell me more.
So in going back to like sort oftraining and education as such,
is there like a moment thatreally like sticks out that, you
know, was sort of that indicatorof success or even sort of like
(09:34):
those challenging moments alongthe path that you had to do that
that gut check?
And, you know, could you shutthat set that stage for us?
Steve Hackman (09:43):
Definitely. I think well, the first pivotal
moment I'll mention was atCurtis, during my 1st year of
studies. And, I was my degreefrom Curtis is in orchestral
conducting.
Rob Lee (09:58):
Mhmm.
Steve Hackman (09:59):
We had a a teacher, my first semester at
Curtis, doctor Ford Lauerstedt,who taught us, I believe at that
point in time, the seminar hetaught was on, kind of score
reading, I think. You know?Though, classes with him became
so unbelievably far ranging. Hewas just one of those kind of
(10:23):
brilliant and and and, justspecial, educators. So, anyway,
it was all composers andconductors in this class, all 5
of us.
You know, Curtis is only a 165students. So I think there were
5, students in the class. 3conductors, 2 composers, I think
it was that time. And the classbefore the holiday break, I was
(10:48):
the only person that showed up.And by this time, you know, 1st
semesters are short as as youmight recall, and and, but in
the couple months of class, Ithink doctor and I had already
kind of developed a bit of arapport, and we both knew there
was something going on, witheach other.
You know? Like, and I I lovethis teacher right away, though
(11:12):
we hadn't yet had a had a chanceto connect, in in a deeper
meaningful way. So I'm the onlyperson that shows up that day,
and he says, okay. Alright.Nobody else is here.
What is your story? Like, whatis going on here? You know?
Because in my 1st semester atCurtis, to be honest, I think
(11:34):
maybe just as the the as adefense mechanism, maybe I
because I was just scared out ofmy mind, maybe in over my head.
I I behaved in a way that, andand I dressed in a way that,
like, well, let me say I I Ididn't I wasn't shy about the
fact that I was different.
I mean, I would carry abasketball with me to to class.
(11:57):
You know? Like, I would wear myheadphones. Like, I wanted all
these classical musicians tosort of know, like, I came from,
like, somewhere else. I I don'task me why.
I don't know. Anyway, he kindasaid, what's your story? What do
you wanna do? Like, what are youdoing here? And, I said I
started to talk about my ownmusic, and and the music I was
(12:17):
writing, and the acapella groupthat I, directed in college and
the the pieces that I hadarranged for them, and and he
was like, oh, I wanna hear that.
So I,
Rob Lee (12:25):
you
Steve Hackman (12:25):
know, it was only a few blocks from my apartment.
I ran home to my apartment. Igrabbed a CD. I brought it back.
He popped it in.
He listens to it, and he says,what are you what are you doing
here? Like if you if this iswhat you wanna do and you're
writing music like this, whydon't you just move to LA now
and just go go do this? And Iwas like, what you talking
(12:48):
about? I wanna be a conductor.You know?
I wanna be be a classicalmusician. And he's like,
alright. Okay. So he he marchesme down. This is all the way up
on the 3rd floor of Curtis.
We go down all the staircases.He marches me down to the dean's
office, and he says to the Dean,Robert Fitzpatrick was our Dean
(13:08):
at the time. He's now passed on.And he says to Fitzpatrick, take
Steve out of all out of all hismusical studies classes. I will
teach him all of themindividually.
So theory, ear training,counterpoint, all that. He said
take them out. And I'll neverforget Fitzpatrick's look
(13:31):
because he you know, I couldtell that he had a little bit of
misgivings. Like, I don't knowif these guys should be, like,
conspiring. But there was apause and he said, Okay.
And from that day on, I mean,Ford cultivated my my ear for
counterpoint, my ability to tocompose my creative side. And if
(13:53):
I didn't, Ford Lauer said,sorry, this is his first name,
if I didn't have that at Curtis,none of the things I was doing
I'm doing now would would bepossible. I mean, he completely
fostered, encouraged, anddeveloped my creative voice
while I was getting that verykinda old school traditional
classical training on theconducting side. And to this
(14:16):
day, he's my musical mentor andI still study with him. Another
really long answer.
I'm sorry.
Rob Lee (14:22):
No. No need to be sorry. I I love it. This is
great, and you're a storyteller.I noticed that in a few of the
instances in watching you doyour thing, and I definitely
appreciate it.
It's less work for me. Yeah.
Steve Hackman (14:37):
Well, I hope people aren't, like, bored other
minds, but
Rob Lee (14:39):
They shouldn't be. This this one might be a shorter or
longer answer to this question.But this this one is goes like
this. So shifting to more of theyour work these days or your
philosophy on things these daysis a conductor more of a leader,
facilitator, director or coach?And why do you think you think
(15:03):
that?
And I'll even add in I wasthinking about it. You mentioned
basketball earlier. I was like,are they the point guard? That
was the other thing I startedthinking about. I wasn't sure.
But yeah. So what are yourthoughts on that, the role of a
conductor out, in in thoseterms?
Steve Hackman (15:17):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I I kinda see leader and
director as, you know, kinda oneof the same. Those seem very
synonymous unless unless you areyou thinking more of director
from a film standpoint?
Rob Lee (15:28):
From, yeah, from a film standpoint. Yeah.
Steve Hackman (15:30):
Well, all those things. Absolutely all those
things. Yes. I think and and asfar as the, you know, the the
kind of basketball analogy,definitely more the coach. I
would say your point guard isyour concert master.
But but listen. The the bestleaders, know how to inspire,
(15:53):
and I I think professionalsports is a is a really apt
analogy here because especiallyat the highest level, orchestras
can do this on their own. Imean, you know, these are
incredibly capable musicians.Yeah. You need somebody to start
them, stop them, you know, givesome cues, make sure that the
(16:15):
the tuba that is 40 feet away isin time with the, you know, the
very back of the second violin,which is all the way on the
other side of the stage.
So, yeah, the stick isimportant. Like, I'm not saying
that the job's not important,but what's the what is I think
what the value that a conductorcan really add is that
(16:35):
inspiration, and professionalathletes are the same way. You
know, you assemble 5 of thegreatest basketball players and
put them on a court, you know,they they can execute. I mean,
wasn't it I mean, this is funnybecause it wasn't a Kyrie Irving
that when they were you know,it's like Kyrie and, I think
James Harden and and, oh, andand Durant. They were all
together, and Kyrie was like, wedon't need a coach.
(16:57):
We could do this ourselves.Like, we got the we have 3 of
the best players in the world.But what was revealed, you do
need a coach, you know, becausea coach is what can inspire them
to go beyond what they could do,you know, left to their own
means if they're if they'releading themselves. I mean, they
could provide that leadership,that direction, that
encouragement, that inspiration,whatever you wanna call it, and
(17:17):
that's what the greatestconductors, you know, that the
and the that we have seen andthat my heroes have done, and
that's what, of course, I hopeto do.
Rob Lee (17:26):
Yeah. That's that was that was a great answer. And,
see, a short a shorter answer.And you actually knocked out the
the following questions. So,see, I think we're making we're
making up time because becausetime my time there, Steve.
Steve Hackman (17:39):
I mean, there's you know, the the technical
thing of conducting is, ofcourse, we can talk about, you
know, what what the what the jobis, so to speak. But in the end,
like, the the thing that so fewof them can do is is inspire,
inspire the best musicians inthe world to to go beyond what
they would they could be thatthey would be doing, you know,
(18:02):
left to their own devices and goto a place, that that maybe
previously thought of asunattainable place. You know,
that's what the great ones can
Rob Lee (18:11):
do. So so in that vein, talk talk about the the job. And
I and, definitely, I'm I'mhearing the, you know, inspiring
and the leadership component andall. But what are some of those
sort of, like, key skills orattributes maybe from a
personality standpoint, from atechnical standpoint that the
great ones possess?
Steve Hackman (18:27):
Did you say key attributes?
Rob Lee (18:28):
Yes.
Steve Hackman (18:30):
Right. Right. Well, did you want to talk to
the the on the technical side,or do you want to talk more on
the sort of emotional leadershipside?
Rob Lee (18:40):
Let's talk about let's talk about both, actually.
Steve Hackman (18:43):
Well, on the technical side, it it's I'll
make another sports analogy. Youknow? They they say, and I and I
love sports for this reason.Well, I I love sports, but,
there's just so many parallels.You know, they say in the
National Football League, thequarterbacks are so important,
and you need a quarterback thatcan make all the throws, quote,
unquote, you know, that that canexecute the entire playbook.
(19:06):
And that's that's a that's afirst rate conductor. You know,
somebody that can, handle alldifferent, you know, periods of
music, especially the ones, ofcourse, in the common practice,
which is, you know, from fromBaroque, let's say, then up to,
you know, 21st century music,that has a stick technique that
(19:31):
is clear. I mean, clarity is thethe most important thing. So
because that's your number onejob, you know, to to start and
stop the musicians, together, toget them to play together and so
that they know where you are inthe b pattern at all times, and
you can lead efficiently andeffectively. I'd say clarity is
(19:53):
number 1, technically.
Communication is, of course,key, and I would say the more
you can communicate nonverbally,the better. You know, not that
you can't speak in aninspirational or instructive way
to an orchestra, but the moreyou have the more you can show
(20:14):
without talking, the morethey'll appreciate you. And
frankly, the more conductingtechnique you have if you're
able to show it, withoutstopping. And that's always
that's always a challengemyself. Watch walking into any
rehearsal, I'm always askingmyself, okay.
Because, you know, I'll I'llmaybe I'll be expecting the
(20:35):
spots that might be tricky orthe spots where they might have
a question about, okay, how doesthis conductor do this certain
passage? What's his his or hertempo, etcetera? So I'll be
saying to myself, how can Iexecute that without talking?
Can I get through that withoutstopping? Yeah.
So that's that's you know, timemanagement is a huge thing
because we're all always pressedfor time, and, there's so much
(20:56):
to do in so little timerehearsal wise. Yeah. Those
would be the technical sides.
Rob Lee (21:04):
Yeah.
Steve Hackman (21:05):
The inspirational side is is more, I would say
that's more kinda universal toany any leader. You know, do do
they just have that that sortof, that that thing that that
thing that's hard to describe,that inspirational quality,
(21:26):
that, that spark, that magic,you know, whatever you wanna
call it. Are they Are theygenerous? And just as a human,
is it about them or is it aboutthe music? Because that's a big
(21:46):
pitfall as well, especially whenyou're standing up there and all
these people are looking at youand all that.
So there's all that as well.Yeah. Thank
Rob Lee (21:54):
you. That's that's great. It's a great answer. So I
wanna I wanna shift to creativeprocess a bit. You know, talking
from, you know, obviously, youknow, the feet, the fusion
component, the conductingcomponent, the songwriting
component, like walk us throughlike what a day in the life of
Steve Hackman looks like from acreation and process standpoint.
Steve Hackman (22:19):
Well, the more creation and and process there
are on a day, the better the dayis. I'll tell you that.
Rob Lee (22:25):
You know?
Steve Hackman (22:26):
The, we're we're speaking right now in a period
of tremendous growth for for meand, for for my company. And so
there is a lot of, kind oflogistics and administration
and, kind of personnel that iskind of absorbing a lot of my
(22:48):
time, these days, but I alwaysgive the morning to creative
work. Well, not always, but I II try to give that first slot of
the day, to creative work, and,just depends what where we are
on the calendar, what that is.That could be writing the next
(23:09):
fusion show. That could besongwriting for the next kind of
original music production.
That could be in the studio,recording because I'm working on
an album. You know, but morning,definitely creative time, and
then usually creative time afterthe gym, like, at night is
always a great, creative period.Like, I go to the gym pretty
(23:31):
late and then, you know,there'll be another great few
hours at night. Yeah. And if Ican get in some some reading and
some listening, and of coursesome gym or some outdoor
activity, then it's a prettygood day.
Love to hear it. So in
Rob Lee (23:48):
in preparing for for the fusion, where where do you
where do you start? Like, talktalk about that, like, sort of,
you know, the starting of theprocess, something that's like
in the middle and like whenwe're getting to that point
where someone like myself wouldbe sitting there like, oh, wow.
This is great. This is amazing,and I'm marking out. So talk
about sort of the, you know, theidea to the actual, like,
(24:08):
execution within that processfor, the fusion.
Steve Hackman (24:12):
Yeah. I mean, well, that's a that's, that can
be a very, very long process.Could also be a short one. I
mean, resurrection mixtape, Iworked on and tinkered with for
a couple years. You know, BrahmsRadiohead was written in a few
weeks.
The Queen show was written in afew weeks. So it does vary. I
(24:32):
think as I've written more andmore and as I've developed the
technique more, as the showshave gotten more and more
involved and, lengthy andconceptual, the process has
lengthened. I'm I'm in the inthe process of, I would say,
(24:53):
just the the ideation phase forthe next one.
Rob Lee (24:57):
Yeah.
Steve Hackman (24:57):
And so that means I'm I'm just kind of it's almost
yeah. Again, I'm gonna use kindof an athletic, analogy here,
but if if when an athlete is ispreparing, you know, for whether
a big competition or a or a biggame or they're they're getting
into kind of, they're gettinginto shape for something.
(25:18):
They're in that training period.Like, I I in my mind, I know
that, like, maybe 6 months fromnow ish, I'll start writing the
the next one, which I've I'vekinda chosen. And so I just put
that music on, you know,occasionally, and I just I jot
down notes.
I flag songs. I playlist songs,etcetera. So as they've gotten
(25:43):
more involved, this kind ofpreproduction phase has gotten
lengthier and lengthier, likethe runway, so to speak. But
then when it starts, when thewriting starts, that's a very
improvisatory process. I mean,it it it will it will usually
start where I have a playlistand I have kinda material
selected already, and I'll hitthe piano.
(26:04):
And, again, let's say if we'retalking about the resurrection
mixtape, which is molar 2,Tupac, and Biggie, I just I open
up the score for the Mueller. Istart to play, and I've got
those songs in my mind. I'vealready got them sort of
memorized. I know what theirmusical content is because I've
gone through this, thisexploratory preproduction phase,
and, I just start to play. Istart to improvise and see where
(26:27):
things can be layered in, and,you know, that's the beginning.
And then eventually, you know, astructure starts to take place,
and I start to realize, okay,this song can go here. I'll
write a piece of this song here,you know, I get that that that
road map kind of starts tomaterialize, pretty quickly, and
then it's a matter of justrefining and iterating and
(26:47):
continuing to drill down all theindividual sections.
Rob Lee (26:50):
That's great. Thank you. Thank you. That that is,
it's good to get a peek into themind of, of the artist, of the
creative. So are there some,like, considerations in, like,
the sort of, like, thoughtprocess that goes into, you
know, fusing, like, you know,composition, fusing, music from
(27:11):
artists that may feel, like, tomany people, like, really
dissimilar.
But then for people who kinda,like, listen and have gone to
one of the shows and seen you doyour your thing and the sort of
the idea and the the story thatgoes along with it, it's like,
oh, no, this this makes sense.This absolutely makes sense. So
what are some of thoseconsiderations in the thinking
that goes into to just puttingtogether fusion and put it talk
(27:35):
about that a little bit?
Steve Hackman (27:36):
Well, I think that's that's sort of the point.
And, yes, it it may seem on theface of it that that, you know,
to an artist composer pairingis, is an unlikely one or is,
you know, not not the that maybethey're not the most well suited
(28:00):
to one another, but there'sgotta be a reason behind it. I
mean, I I I say often since I'vebeen doing this for this long,
and I've developed thetechnique, I mean, at this
point, anything is combinable.It's really just a question of
why, and just because you can doit doesn't mean you should. So I
(28:23):
would say I'm really guided bythat principle, and the reasons,
the why can be musical or theycould be amusical.
In the case of Brahms andRadiohead, it's actually both.
You know? There's there's greatdensity, to the music. They they
(28:46):
they they share some, they sharesome very basic qualities, like,
you know, time signature key,you know, key, etcetera. But,
again, any anything can sharethose.
But, there is, you know, theirtheir use of counterpoint, their
(29:06):
their, you know, theiradvancement is advancements in
harmony, etcetera. But thenbeyond that, there's then a
musical reasons. There's theemotional quality of the music.
And in, like, in the example ofBeethoven Coldplay, that was
less for musical reasons. Thatwas that was a musical reasons.
That was because I thought,these are both artists that deal
(29:30):
with these universal humanistqualities. They they both speak
to what it is to be on thisearth as a human being, you
know, love and loss and tragedyand triumph. And they they deal
with those in, magnificent waysthat gives their their music, a
(29:50):
very distinctive character. Sothat's why I wanted to combine
those. So, you know,resurrection mixtape, there's
the of course, that's that's athat's a Mueller's Symphony, the
second symphony, theresurrection that deals with the
concept of the afterlife andwhat is the afterlife.
And, of course, we lost Biggieand and Tupac tragically in the,
(30:12):
you know, in their when they're23, you know, year 24 years old.
And so, but they're enduring,and, they're everlasting. And so
they, through their their impacton pop culture and the world,
embody the idea of, you know,living eternally. You know? So
(30:35):
that that's the reason for thatone.
So they've all got, a myriad ofreasons.
Rob Lee (30:40):
Thank you. It's great. So I got one last real question,
and even the great Steve Hackmangets the rapid fire questions.
So I got a couple of those foryou after this last real one,
but I'll hit you with the realone. So as someone who is
consist constantly pushing theboundaries of music, how we like
kind of like, you know,understand maybe some of these,
(31:02):
like, you know, unexpectedcombinations and really painting
that picture.
What what projects do you havecoming up? I I know you touched
on, you know, we worked on thealbum. So what do you have
coming up in the next, let'ssay, you know, 6 6 3 to 6
months?
Steve Hackman (31:17):
Sure. A big focus of mine right now, that is being
pursued in tandem, of course,with all the fusion work
because, that calendar is full.And and as I said, I'm looking
forward to writing the next one,is my own original music and my
original voice. And, you know,one of my big goals this year
(31:40):
was to realize that originalvoice and to answer the
question, what is art music tome right now, and what is my
musical voice, and and whathappens when I use these
techniques that I've developedthrough the Fusion works of
which there are many, works andand techniques, and wonderful
experiences with incrediblemusicians and, and rich, rich
(32:05):
musical material. What happenswhen I filter my own musical
ideas, through those techniques?
What does that music sound like?What is it you know, what is
that experience? And, I realizedthat for the first time, couple
months ago with the brink, We wepremiered that on March 9th.
(32:26):
We're doing the 2nd installment,so part 2 in in, just a few
weeks away. That's in June 8th,so I'm fiendishly writing for
that right now.
And, that's tremendouslyfulfilling and exciting because
it truly feels like a journeysort of into the unknown, into
(32:46):
this kind of well, I I don'twanna I shouldn't qualify it in
any way. It's just I'm justtrying to realize my voice, and
that's a very fulfilling,activity, I think, for for
anybody. So grateful for thatright now.
Rob Lee (33:05):
Thank you. I'm I'm looking forward to what's next.
If I'm if I'm being reallyhonest, I'm looking forward to
it. You're definitely on thatthat list of, like, oh, he's
he's here? He's he's back inBaltimore?
I'm going. Where's where'swhere's my shirt? You know what
I mean?
Steve Hackman (33:19):
Oh, nice. Nice. That like like I said, I'm I'm
I'm tremendously grateful forwhat's happening there in
Baltimore, the BaltimoreSymphony and the the Fuse
series, and, yeah, to toeverybody that's come out and
and sort of that has sort ofadopted those concerts and and
now are kind of, like, you know,loyal fans of of that concert
(33:42):
series. I mean, it's prettyamazing what's happened there in
a short time.
Rob Lee (33:46):
Yeah. And I and I think that's where we'll we'll stop
with the real questions. And ifyou'll indulge me, I got a few
rapid fire questions for you.They're ridiculous. They're fun.
They're interesting. They may berelated to what what your
creative pursuits are, what yourwork is. But they're, you know,
a lot of times they just relateto who the person is because,
you know, the the the point ofme adding these in there is not
(34:07):
to do the gotcha thing oranything along those lines, but
it's to take, you know, peekbehind the curtain to show who
the person is, you know, versusthis sort of transactionary
thing that people do. Tell meabout your work. Bye.
No. Nobody wants to really let'slet's get into the person a
little bit. So here's here's myfirst one. This was the one I
wrote. Right?
When I was telling you aboutthe, Drake and Tchaikovsky, this
(34:31):
was the question I wrote. It'slike, conducting looks very
physical. After a night ofconducting, what is the source
part of your body?
Steve Hackman (34:39):
Shoulder. Yeah. Shoulder for sure.
Rob Lee (34:45):
You mentioned earlier sports. You're you're a big
sports fan. What what are whatare the 2 to 3 teams that you
support?
Steve Hackman (34:53):
Well, Duke Blue Devils Basketball, which I have
to qualify because, you know, alot of people are gonna groan
when they hear that, but my dadplayed basketball with coach k,
when they were in the armytogether. So we're huge Duke
fans. Chicago Bulls because I'mfrom Chicago. Yeah. And then I
(35:16):
kind of I'm a Tom Brady fan.
A lot of people are gonna groanat that one as well. I take a
lot of, flack for that, but I'mjust into the story of this guy
that, you know, was a 9throunder or whatever it was, you
know, drafted at the you know,had to wait to the bitter end of
the draft to to have his namecalled, and then he becomes the
(35:38):
greatest of all time. And he hejust that competitive fire that
he had for his entire career toto always be better. I mean,
same with Jordan, same with KobeBryant. I'm I'm, I've got the
Kobe Bryant book right on my,coffee table right now because
I'm sort of obsessed with Koberight now.
Man, like just a maniacalcompetitor. That that's those
(35:59):
are the ones those are are thethe people that I'm inspired by.
Rob Lee (36:04):
Thank you. That's that's great. So I know that in
in in in pardon my, like, lackof the the terminology, but,
obviously, each gesture whenyou're conducting has meaning in
a tent. Do you have a troll? Doyou ever get up there and do
something like this is not thegesture, but, you know, people
are trying to figure out whatwhat you mean?
You're just up there just kinda,like, doing umpire strikeout
(36:27):
moves and things of that naturewhen rehearsing is going on?
Steve Hackman (36:31):
No way. No way. Yeah. I mean, listen. They say
they say in the orchestrabusiness, a conductor are
already is stepping on thepodium with a deficit of
credibility.
Okay? That that just to give youan idea of kind of how how
professional orchestralmusicians view conductors, and
(36:52):
rightfully so because a lot oftimes, the person who's in front
of there in front of them has nobusiness being up there. So, I
take it serious very, very, veryseriously, the privilege to be
up there. And already, mydeficit of credibility is
probably greater because they'rethinking, who the hell is this
(37:12):
guy that's combining Mueller'ssecond Symphony with Tupac and
Biggie? And, I spent a lot ofyears digging myself out of
that.
So the last thing I'm going todo is you know, go up there and
make some superfluous or, youknow, kind of Charlotte and
gesture to them.
Rob Lee (37:31):
Thank you. This is this is the last one I got. I'm very
I'm very interested in whatfolks eat, but I want to do this
in the vein of sort ofunexpected combinations. Is
there like an unexpected, likefood combination or something
that's really unique that youenjoy, but people kind of give
you the side eye? It's like, Iguess the the apt combination
(37:51):
would be back in the day when aReese's Cup was first invented.
Why do you have your chocolatein my peanut butter and vice
versa? Do you have a, you know,unexpected combination when it
comes to food?
Steve Hackman (38:01):
Yeah. I would I'm a, people that know me well say
I eat kind of rabbit food, a lotof nuts, a lot of dried fruits,
a lot of peanut butter, and andalmonds. So I will put almonds
in just about anything,including, like, you know, like,
(38:26):
you know, chili or soup orsomething. I just love the
crunch of almonds. So that's athat's one where people are
like, yeah.
You're you're something wrongwith you.
Rob Lee (38:36):
That that's that's wild, actually. Almonds, I I I
didn't think of that, but, I I'ma texture guy as well, so I
definitely,
Steve Hackman (38:42):
understand, like, maybe having that that crunch in
there.
Rob Lee (38:42):
And, I've been putting lot of stuff recently. I wanna
have a talk with that. Carrypowder's going.
Steve Hackman (38:53):
Yeah. There you go. I'm okay with that. I I will
try that. I'm a big spice guyfor sure.
And heat. I mean, I like a lotof heat.
Rob Lee (39:01):
Bring in the heat, and, we're we're going nuts here. So
I I think that's it. I thinkthat's it for the pod. So one, I
wanna thank you. I wanna thankyou truly.
Thank you for coming on to thispodcast and spending some time
with me. And 2, I'm going toinvite and encourage you to
share with the listeners whereyou can check out all things
Steve Hackman updates, website,social media, all of that good
(39:22):
stuff. The floor is yours.
Steve Hackman (39:24):
Well, sure. Yeah. No. Thank you, Rob, for having
me. It's been a terrificdiscussion.
Instagram is the best way, toget the the the most updated
content. My Instagram is SteveHackman music, and then website,
of course, stevehackman.com.Those are the two ways.
Rob Lee (39:43):
And there you have it, folks. I wanna again thank Steve
Hackman Man for coming on to thepodcast. And I'm Rob Lee saying
that there's art and culture inand around your neck of the
woods. You've just got to lookfor
Steve Hackman (40:01):
it.
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