September 5, 2023 • 33 mins
Welcome back, Uncommon Leaders!
Strap in for a transformative journey as we learn from healthcare executive Dr. Zeev Neuwirth with his 30-year wealth of experience and his latest book, Beyond the Walls Megatrends and Market Disruptors Transforming American Healthcare.
Drawing inspiration from his father, Dr. Neuwirth imparts that the foundation of healthcare should be treating everyone with dignity and respect, a principle that has fueled his passion throughout his career. This episode unravels three revolutionary strategies that could very well transform the American healthcare system. We also spotlight innovative entrepreneurs stretching the boundaries of the existing healthcare framework.
So tune in, let Dr. Neuwirth’s story of inspirational leadership motivate you to contribute to meaningful change.
Beyond the Walls - Megatrends, Movements, and Market Disruptors
Creating a New Healthcare Podcast
Zeev Neuwirth, MD on LinkedIn
Reframing Healthcare Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, Uncommon Leaders , welcome back.
This is the Uncommon LeaderPodcast and I'm your host, John
Gallagher.
On today's episode, I have agreat conversation with another
Uncommon Leader, Dr Zev Neuarth,where we discuss the
transformative power ofleadership in healthcare.
Zev Neuarth is a healthcareexecutive with over 15 years of
clinical practice in internalmedicine and another 15 years in
(00:23):
clinical operations, qualityimprovement, care redesign,
population health and innovation.
His work to improve andtransform healthcare delivery
has been featured in Newsweek,Forbes, Fast Company, WebMD, the
Yale School of ManagementJournal and in two Harvard case
studies.
In 2019, Dr Neuarth publishedhis first book, Re-Framing
(00:44):
Healthcare a roadmap forcreating disruptive change.
In his second book, Beyond theWalls megatrends and market
disruptors transforming Americanhealthcare, has now been
released.
It's already achieved top newrelease on Amazon in the
category of hospitaladministration.
It outlines a three-partstrategy for the transformation
of American healthcare anddocuments dozens of examples of
(01:06):
the visionary, courageousentrepreneurs and leaders who
are transcending the constraintsof our current healthcare
delivery system.
While his new book forms thefoundation of our conversation
today, it's his passion andUncommon commitment to
transforming healthcare thatwill inspire you even more.
You're going to be moved bythis episode, so let's get
started.
(01:26):
Dr Zev Neuarth, welcome to theUncommon Leader podcast.
It is so great to reconnectwith you and have you on the
show.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
John doing great.
I love seeing you and I'm soexcited to be speaking with you.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, it's going to be a great conversation and I
want to jump right in.
I know we're going to get achance to talk about your new
book Beyond the Walls megatrends, movements and market
disruptors transforming Americanhealthcare.
Before that, I'm treating youlike the same I treat every
other first-time guest and askyou a question.
I ask him is to tell me a storyfrom your childhood that still
impacts who you are as a leaderor person today.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
When I was growing up .
My dad is an immigrant to theUnited States and very proud
American.
He's an engineer.
A mechanical and electricalengineer, grew up pretty modest
means but became a professionaland did some amazing work in his
(02:36):
career.
One thing about my dad which wasjust all the time everywhere
was that my dad would talk toeveryone.
It didn't matter where we were.
If we were in the gas station,he would talk to the gas
attendant.
If we were at a restaurant, hewould talk to the waiter or
waitress, or even the bus boysor anyone.
(03:00):
What was really remarkable tome was he treated everyone,
anyone with such respect andsuch decency and such dignity.
When we got a little older andwe were teenagers, he would say
(03:20):
to me Zev, I talked to threestar generals and I talked to
CEOs and I present in front ofthese groups as he was doing his
work in engineering and designand sales of his products.
He said they're just the sameas anyone else.
People put on their pants thesame way, they struggle the same
(03:42):
way.
I believe every human beingdeserves and needs that sense of
dignity.
What I loved about what he didtoo, was my dad loves to talk,
and that is as you'll get to seeand your listeners will get to
see.
That is one of the attributes Idid get from him.
You already know that about me,john.
Yes, I do.
(04:02):
He also listened and he was areally good listener.
Again, every gas station, Ihave to tell you, it got to be a
bit much because literally wewould stop at a gas station and
there he was talking to the gasattendant.
He could talk with that personfor like 20, 30 minutes and
we're like, hey, dad, we got toget going.
(04:23):
Same thing at the restaurant,same thing on the streets.
He just really, I think, sawthe best in people and brought
out the best in people and wascurious about people.
Again, it's that respect anddignity which I think has guided
me throughout my entire careerand actually is one of the
reasons why I've taken thecourse I have in healthcare,
(04:44):
because I did not see that samesentiment and same approach in
healthcare delivery.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I love that, and, yes , while you, while we, I do know
you well enough to know thatyou like to talk, I also know
that those positive attributesthat you really talked about,
the respect and dignity, aresomething that drew me to you
when I first met you years ago,so I appreciate you sharing that
story, and I'm sure that's theway you've continued, even
though we haven't been workingtogether for a few years.
(05:11):
So let's jump into what wereally came here to talk about,
though, and that was your newbook that's just come out.
That's number one in healthcare delivery on Amazon right
now in terms of new releases,and number one in hospital
administration for new releasesright now already, and as we
record this episode and as Irelease it, it'll be the day
that your book is officiallyreleased, so I know that it's an
exciting time, but tell, tellthe listeners of the podcast.
(05:33):
You know why, why did you writethis book and why now?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, you know this was going back a few years,
probably about seven, eight,nine years ago.
You know, I've been in healthcare, as you know, for for
decades, and as a practicingprimary care physician and then
a physician manager and then aphysician executive, doing
process improvement and qualityimprovement and care redesign
and human centered design, andthen population health and and
(05:58):
operations, and so I've been inthe Valley of the Beast for for
well over 30 years, and aboutabout nine or eight, nine years
ago I I just had sort of aseries of things happen where I
I just realized that what wewere doing was not going to get
us where we needed to.
We've been doing, and I've beenpart of this.
You know movement aftermovement.
(06:19):
You know bright, shiny object,science, technology, this, that,
the other thing.
You know thinking, operations,management, thinking that was
going to get us out of thedilemma we're in.
And also I just had thisrealization that it wasn't and
that we needed to start doingsomething really different and
in different ways and thinkingdifferently.
And so you know and you knowthis because I I'd done this
(06:42):
even back when we were workingtogether, I started to call up
people around the country andaround the world who were really
reframing health care, who weretaking a completely different
orientation to the problem.
They were, you know, in somesense going beyond the walls,
right, literally, conceptually,you know, systemically,
operationally, and and so Istarted to interview them, and I
(07:04):
did this for myself and I wouldrecord these interviews and
then I would study thetranscripts of those and then I
began to see a pattern and Iwrote about that pattern in my
first book reframing health careand I've continued to literally
do that now, obviously with apodcast, but I've recorded and
interviewed hundreds andhundreds of these beyond the
wall leaders.
(07:24):
And you know, the approach issomething which the scientists
call positive deviance.
So this is when there arethings out there that are
working.
And instead of trying to focuson the problem with the same
sort of tools that you've beenusing, why don't you go out and
see people who are actuallysolving the problem with
different ways of thinking anddifferent ways of doing it?
And that's essentially whatI've done.
And in terms of the why and why, now you know, I think the
(07:48):
facts are pretty straightforwardthe health care system is
completely broken, it is notworking and we're not talking
about yes, there's 30 millionpeople that are not insured in
America, but there's 100 millionpeople with severe medical debt
.
100 million over 40% ofAmericans are carrying medical
debt which is destroying theirlives, and I would say that the
(08:11):
vast majority, over 80%,struggle with medical care.
In fact, there was a recentreport I saw that said in the
last year was it was a, it was anational poll In the last year,
50% of Americans who weresurveyed said that they either
deferred, delayed, avoidedmedication or medical care
because they couldn't afford it50%.
So we're talking about a systemthat is unaffordable and
(08:35):
unattainable for the majority ofAmericans and it's getting
worse.
And you know we could talk aboutthe inequities and disparities
in care where literally peopleacross the country are living
less shorter lives than peoplein third world countries.
We're talking about maternalfetal mortality rate, which is
the same as it was in the CivilWar era for black women and
black children.
(08:55):
You know, on and on and on.
We're talking about the factthat you know, 50% of people
with high blood pressure are notappropriately treated and don't
have it under control.
Over 90% of people with heartfailure are not appropriately
treated and don't have it undercontrol.
The system's not working.
We're talking about 50% ofdoctors who are burnt out and
demoralized.
People are calling it moralinjury.
(09:16):
I mean, that's what theliterature is calling it.
So it's not working forproviders, the people in the
system, and it's clearly notworking for the American public,
who the system should beserving.
And so could we keep on goingand doing the same things and
saying, let's do it harder andfaster and do it bigger?
No, I don't think so.
I think that's foolishness.
We really need to reorient.
(09:37):
So the time is now.
The time is.
You know, every expert I'vetalked to has said the same
thing, every single one, withoutexception the system is not
working and it's unsustainable,it's off the tracks and we're
heading for somethingcatastrophic, and you know.
And so it's imperative, it's anexistential issue which, again,
(09:57):
so many of the experts I talkedto talk about, that it's a
moral obligation for leaders.
And so in the book, I don't talkabout problems.
I don't talk about, you know,the past.
What I'm talking about isdozens and dozens of courageous,
bold, innovative leaders thatare taking a completely
different approach, bringing newideas that are actually working
(10:18):
.
Why don't we actually studythem and look at what they're
doing, invest in that and scalethem?
And that's the approach I'vetaken, which I think is
incredibly inspiring, incrediblyhopeful, incredibly practical.
And, by the way, cmmi does thesame exact thing.
They use a positive devianceapproach.
So the federal government istrying to take that, and so does
(10:39):
the VA system, which isprobably the test kitchen for
innovation in American healthcare.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So, thank you, thank you so much for sharing that,
and I would say that is a fairlymonumental reason for action.
But what I love about what yousaid at the very end, you said
there is hope and there areleaders who are doing something
about it.
It feels like David versusGoliath at times in terms of the
size of the problem, but thereare leaders who are doing it.
Inside of your book, you'reportraying leaders who have
(11:06):
those approaches.
Is there any one story of aleader that really sticks out to
you, that you wrote about, thatyou're proud of?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Wow.
You know, the great thing, john, is that, as you point out and
there are dozens, if nothundreds, that I wish I could
share with you, and again, inthe book Beyond the Walls, I
share these hopeful, inspiring,informing and real, real leaders
who are doing real things now.
So it's not hypothetical, it'snot academic, it's not research.
(11:36):
This is really happening in theopen market, and some of them
just to be very clear, some ofthis is happening within
traditional health care,hospital systems, provider
groups.
As I mentioned, the VA is juston fire.
They're doing amazing workthere.
But so it's not just theentrepreneurs who, again, I take
my hat off to the entrepreneurswho have gone beyond the walls,
(11:56):
but it's really people who areoutside of the walls and behind
the walls, these beyond-the-wallthinkers and leaders that are
working together.
And, again, that's why it's sohopeful.
And I will say this I talk to alot of my contemporaries and,
john, you probably know this aswell A lot of people are jaded.
They've been in the businessfor 20, 30 years, and even the
younger folks, and they're burntout, they're jaded, they're
(12:19):
demoralized.
I tell you, john, and you and Ihave worked a long time ago
together I have never, ever inmy entire career, been more
inspired, more hopeful, becauseI have been making it my
business to listen to thesebeyond-the-wall leaders and all
we have to do is really createthat.
And it's a movement.
It really is and should be amovement, which is what I'm
(12:42):
excited about A story.
There's so many.
Look, there were a couple ofresearchers and who came out of
the VA and I have to take my hatoff to them because I began my
career in the VA system many,many years ago and they were
noticing when they were teachingdoctors, and they noticed that
(13:03):
their students, their residents,were coming back and telling
them okay, listen, this is apatient, 55-year-old, with these
medical problems, and here'sthe solution.
I think they came back and thentalked to the patient and they
started to hear something whichhad no language, had no ideation
, there was nothing to even callit back then.
But it was like when theystarted to actually hear the
patient's lives, they realizedthat the context of the
(13:26):
patient's lives would not allowfor that strictly clinical
medical approach to work.
It just wouldn't have worked.
The patient's lives, whether itwas the resources they did or
didn't have, it just wasn'tgonna work and so they didn't
have a name for this, and sothey started to literally study
this problem and they recordedliterally, over the past 20
(13:48):
years, over 6,000 doctor-patientvisits.
And they not only recorded them, videotaped them, they actually
coded them in a radically newway, and what they discovered
and coined was something calledcontextual care.
And they said you know what?
There are a few factors that wekeep on seeing.
They actually have 12 factors,so it's not 100, 12 factors.
(14:09):
They call them these contextualerrors or these contextual
barriers, and if you identifythem in the conversation with
people, with patients, you canactually identify them, you can
actually explore them and youactually have solution sets for
each of them.
And so over the past twodecades, they have studied this,
they have published repeatedlyin bonafide medical journals,
they've written books about it,and now they're taking these
(14:32):
contextual barriers and they'veembedded it in a
state-of-the-art AI-enabled caremanagement system with protocol
.
So the machinery is actuallypicking up these contextual
factors.
As the care managers andclinicians are talking to the
patients and their familiesthrough natural language
processing and other ways,they're picking up these
(14:52):
contextual factors, they'retriggering the team to notice
them, they're actually helpingthe team explore them and they
are actually embedded solutionsets to actually help the care
management teams and cliniciansdeal with these contextual
factors.
And they're beginning to showoutcomes in terms of now what
they've demonstrated outcomesbefore, but now they're showing
it embedded in automation,state-of-the-art automation and
(15:15):
technology, and they're showingreduced hospitalizations,
reduced readmissions, reducedcost of care, improved outcomes
of care.
It is such a brilliant story.
I spent a whole chapter in mybook talking about this story
because it is so powerful.
And again, these entrepreneurscame out of the VA system.
They came out of the belly ofthe beast, which again, I find
(15:37):
so, so inspiring.
And again for me, john, I don'tlike the blame game.
We are in the healthcare system.
I see, in fact, people usingmilitary words and warring and
blaming and pointing fingers.
Let's not do that.
People who are outside thewalls and inside the walls we've
got to gather here and this isone of the best stories I've
seen in terms of reallyhumanizing healthcare using
(16:01):
state-of-the-art technology.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I love that utilizing technology, along with the
leadership qualities that goalong with that.
I can't wait to read some ofthese stories.
I know they're gonna be reallycool and when I get the copy of
my hands, I wanna ask you youmentioned some of the leaders
that you come across.
In terms of what's happening inindustry.
They're burnout you use theterm jaded demoralized as well.
The stories and the leaders whoare carrying those things
(16:26):
forward as leaders.
Listening to this podcast, whatare the qualities that you see
in those leaders that allow themto, in essence, overcome the
challenge that is healthcare,that they're actually able to
transform healthcare?
What are their qualities?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
I'm going to be totally honestwith you, I think, what
attracted me to I'm going to behonest with you and throughout
completely transparent, ratherbecause I've been honest, but I
don't know that I have a greatanswer yet to your question.
But I will tell you this thatI've been interviewing these
(17:02):
courageous, bold leaders for nowclose to a decade, and the
things they're doing, and againso many stories come to mind.
I literally could spend thenext few days with you.
Just one story after anotherafter another, just amazingly
positive things that arehappening in healthcare here and
across the globe.
But what excited me about theseinterviews, and what's really
(17:25):
inspired me and kept me going,is that these folks were not
only reorienting and reframinghealthcare delivery, they were
reorienting and reframingthemselves.
It was a level of integritywhich, I have to tell you, I
(17:47):
admire from a distance, becauseI'm not sure that I actually
have attained that level ofintegrity and leadership yet.
But they weren't staying thesame.
They actually had to transformthemselves in order to transform
what they were doing, and noone ever taught me that.
I've never seen that in anyleadership book or text and it
(18:11):
wasn't the typical.
Here's what a leader does, andhere are the skills and here are
the talents.
It was really just a opennessand a courage and an integrity
to say I've got to change.
Concrete example of that SeanDuffy.
In Harvard Medical School, inHarvard Business School.
I write about him and so manyothers like him.
(18:31):
There he is on Longwood Avenuein Boston.
You know premier medical school, premier business school.
He's getting a dual degree andhe sees that people are coming
into the Longwood area tohospitals every single day, into
clinics every single day, andhe says you know what, with the
technology we have and this wasback in 2008 or 2009, so this is
not like today or yesterday,this was over a dozen years ago
(18:53):
he says we have the technologynow.
This is wrong.
We need to bring healthcare topeople using the technology.
And so what does he do?
And again, talk about integrity, talk about conviction, talk
about commitment.
He leaves Harvard BusinessSchool and he leaves Harvard
Medical School and he goes andhe studies digital technology.
He literally takes a year ortwo to go study that, to work in
(19:16):
a company.
So he trains himself and thenhe goes and he works at IDEO to
learn how to do design andproduct development.
Who does that?
Who has that level ofconviction and commitment?
You know it's like I believehealthcare should be this way.
I'm actually going to change mylife and change myself in order
to make myself a better leaderfor what I believe we need.
(19:38):
And he goes and he does that.
And then he creates Omada, acompany, one of the most
brilliant, trailblazing digitalhealth companies.
And again, I can tell you storyafter story after story of
leaders.
You know Chris Chen from ChenMed, a cardiologist.
You know Harvard trained,cornell trained, rather.
(19:58):
You know cardiologistsbrilliant, could have done
anything, could have made anyamount of money.
You wanted to completely leftthat to do primary care to serve
the frail, poor, elderly peoplein a radically new way.
You know, using MedicareAdvantage payment, completely
transformed primary care Again.
Who does that?
(20:19):
You know who does that Beyondthe wall leaders.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Did you know that many of the things that I
discuss on the Uncommon Leaderpodcast are subjects that I
coach other leaders andorganizations on?
If you would be interested inhaving me discuss one on one or
group coaching with you, or knowsomeone who is looking to move
from underperforming to uncommonin their business or life, I
would love to chat with you.
Click the link in the shownotes to set up a free call to
discuss how coaching mightbenefit you and your team.
(20:47):
Now back to the show.
Amen, brother.
So transparency it was.
You just talked yourself intothose qualities, right, courage,
integrity, commitment,conviction those are huge, okay,
but what I, what I hear interms of reframing self is
humility as well, though that Idon't know it all.
(21:08):
And then I've got to transformmyself to be able to transform
this process and understand it.
So you know your previous book,reframing healthcare absolutely
have to reframe yourself andwho you are as a leader.
So thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for sharing, frankly,the passion in which you shared
it.
Right, you've got to haveconviction, you've got to have
some level of thick skin to tryand fight the system that is
(21:32):
healthcare delivery today andall the things that that keep it
from going forward.
You know I hear that passionand I know you wrote this book
and you want the people thatread this book.
So oftentimes, like you see,we're not doing video, but you
see the books on the back of myshelf People read a book that
put it up on the shelf, but theone year test is when they look
at that book and they say Iremember a story from that book.
(21:54):
This is how it made me feel,this is what it made me think
and this is what it made me dothis book right here.
I can put it in one sentencewhat do you want the readers of
this book to feel?
What do you want them to think?
What do you want them to doafter they've read this book?
Come on into the video.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, first, I wrote the book for lots of folks, but
specifically for leaders, andI've talked to some colleagues
who are not sure leadership isready for this book.
I actually disagree.
I think leadership is ready.
I've seen it.
It is a catalyst for leaders.
I think people, if you read it,I can't imagine you won't be
(22:39):
inspired.
I can't imagine you won't beinformed.
I can't imagine, quite honestly, that you won't walk away with
at least one or two or threeideas that you yourself can
implement today where you areand that's what I want people to
do is you know, clearly, theinspiration is going to be there
.
I've already had feedback.
(23:00):
I handed the book out to about100, 120 people and I've gotten
tremendous feedback.
People are so inspired, but Ithink they'll also be informed
and real life examples, and so Iwrote those real life examples
in there.
These are the exemplars.
This is, you know, again, thepositive deviance we could pick
up.
Whether it doesn't matter, youknow what your situation is,
what your profession, you knowthere is something you can pick
(23:22):
up from the book that you couldliterally start to do the next
day or start to implement.
I mean, I think even justsending the message out there.
Even, you know, getting thebook.
You, john, even before we goton, you said I'm going to take
this book and hand it out to,you know, two or three friends
immediately.
Even that is an action, right,creating the spreading the
narrative, spreading theinspiration, spreading the
information.
That is a positive step,because if we don't do that, you
(23:45):
know, then it's just, it justdisappears into ether.
This has got to be that.
You know, in the epilogue tothe book, I actually do have a
call to action and I share acouple of stories which I think
are important.
You know, first of all, I justaddressed the issue.
You know, what can I do?
You can do a lot.
I mean, you know, people say tome, you know, I even asked
myself, like you know, is whatI'm doing worth anything?
(24:05):
Like, what am I doing Right?
Well, I mean, I'm at, you know,I have this podcast, like you,
and I'm getting out the messageout to thousands and thousands
of people.
And you know, even if I reachone person, one person who can
change something, oh my God.
You know, I was at a conferencein Boston about a month or so
ago and some, some guy, ran upto me and he said oh, my God,
(24:28):
are you Zeph Neweath?
And I was like, yeah, he goes.
I read your book ReframingHealthcare completely changed my
thinking, completely changed mycareer, completely changed
everything for me.
And he was so excited.
He ran home, got the book,brought it back to the
conference, you know, asked meto sign it, and I was, you know
so.
So you know it was wonderful.
But then I found out who he wasand what he did.
This guy is like the chiefmedical officer for Medicaid for
(24:50):
the entire state ofMassachusetts and I asked people
about him.
He's amazing.
I mean, people love him.
They just and look at that andhere's something I wrote which
affected someone we don't know.
When you hand the book, I mean,if you work in healthcare
organization, get this book toyour C-suite, get this book to
your board members, because theboard members have to read this
(25:10):
book.
They have to understand thethree domains I'm talking about.
If we don't do these threedomains, we will not get out of
the dilemma.
It is a comprehensive approachthat I outline with real life
examples, and so you know whatcan I do.
You know, if you want, if youdon't know, call me up or email
me after you read the book andI'll be happy to talk to you
about what you can do.
(25:31):
This issue also is this and Italk about this in the epilogue,
john, you know this.
I've been talking about thisfor quite some time, when things
in healthcare were amazing andpeople were making crazy money
and revenue.
You know, just coming in and Iwould talk to groups and they
would say to me Zev, listen, youknow we can't change now.
And I would say why?
And they would say things aretoo good to change.
(25:52):
Why would we change anything?
Why would we do something new?
Why would we go beyond thewalls?
Why would we reframe?
Now we're making so much money,okay, that's great.
And then now, when things aren'tas great and the revenue isn't
as forthcoming, and you knowhospital systems and other
healthcare systems are kind ofin a quasi-survival mode, and
you know money is tight, and sonow I hear well, zev, you can't
(26:15):
expect us to reframe, you can'texpect us to go beyond the walls
, you can't expect us tohumanize healthcare.
And so you know, the problem isthis it's never the right time,
it's never the good time tochange.
You know and John, you taughtme this years ago leaders don't.
Their conviction, theircommitment is not dependent on
(26:36):
the current moment.
You can't let it be.
It cannot, it cannot deter you.
True leaders understand thatthey have to transcend the
current moment.
They have to say this is whatwe have to do, this is the hill
we have to take, this is what wehave to accomplish, not
tomorrow or the day after that,but literally now, and with
whatever means we have, we willdo it.
Because you know something it'snever the perfect time to
(26:57):
change, and so that's what Iwould say to folks is the time
is now, the time is past.
Now, quite honestly, I sharedwith you the information, the
data it's pretty evident thereason why.
And you know what can you do?
There's a thousand things youcould do.
The first one is read the book.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Zev, you told me you were fired up when we got on
this call.
You have been man.
This is great.
I love it Absolutely.
Just a little bit of a turnhere as we get up in our time
and I want to respect your timeand I so appreciate what you
already have invested with thelisteners of the Uncommon Leader
podcast.
The proceeds from your bookyou're donating to Feeding
America.
Tell me about that.
How'd you decide to do that aswell?
(27:35):
I didn't really tell you.
I was going to ask you that,but I saw that.
I read about it.
What's there for?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
you, I wanted to donate the proceeds from the
first book to a nonprofit, andso when the second book was,
when I saw that it was going tohappen, I thought about this
long and hard, and I just abunch of reasons.
One is, first of all, feedingAmerica.
(28:01):
It's heartbreaking to thinkthat so many people in our
country and it's not a smallnumber don't have enough food,
and especially for me, it's thechildren.
It breaks my heart and so it'sa good cause, right, and there
are lots of other organizationsI could have contributed to in
the same area of Feeding America, but I chose this one.
(28:23):
And the other issue is this forme, I don't practice clinical
medicine anymore and I seefriends and family members who
are clinicians and physiciansand they do these mission trips
and I guess I could go and helpand do nonclinical stuff.
But for me I thought to myselfwow, this is my mission trip,
(28:46):
I'm going to take my proceedsand this is going to be my
mission is to, as I go out and Ido talks and I hopefully the
book will be read and sold.
And again, I really believe,john, this book needs to be in
the hands, the hearts and theheads of every single leader in
American healthcare, in everydomain whether you're in a
(29:07):
hospital system, a providergroup, pharmaceutical industry,
medical device industry,insurance industry, pbms, the
federal government, stategovernments this book needs to
be in their hands.
They have to understand what itis.
We need to do, what is working,what we need to really resource
and change policy andhealthcare around.
That's my mission, and I'm nottalking about a few thousand.
(29:29):
I'm talking about hundreds ofthousands of people who need to
read this book, and part of thereason that I donated it is
because I feel so, so good aboutsaying that and telling people.
That's my mission and I wantthem to make it their mission
and to know that I'm not goingto make one cent off of that.
This is about my mission and Iwant others to make it their
mission.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Seth Appreciate that Folks know where they can get
the book Amazon, barnes, noble,all those different outlets that
sell books.
You can go anywhere to find it.
But how can they find you, seth?
Where should folks stay intouch with you and learn more
about you?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, the podcast is one.
I'm on LinkedIn.
Actually, that's probably thefastest way.
If you just go to LinkedIn andyou message me, I promise you,
if I'm on which I am pretty muchevery day I will get back to
you.
I promise you that.
So LinkedIn is probably theeasiest way to find me.
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Thank you, zev.
I'll put that link in there aswell for LinkedIn.
Okay, finishing up, I only haveone more question for you, zev.
Again, I appreciate youinvesting the time with us.
It's the same question.
I always ask the first-timeguests on the podcast as well,
and I think you're going to havesomething passionate to tell me
again, let's bring it, but I'mgoing to give you a billboard.
You can put anything on it thatyou want to.
Okay, you can tell everybodythe message you're trying to get
(30:43):
out there.
What do you put on thatbillboard and why?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Listen, one word, listen.
You're asking me, john, beforeabout leadership, and I think
the most powerful leaders barnone not just in healthcare but
across the board this is whatI've witnessed is just our
incredible listeners.
And they hear not just thestory but the story behind the
story, and they hear the soulbehind the story behind the
(31:12):
story and they hear the spiritof it.
And I think listening is thething we need to do.
In fact, in that story I wastelling you about contextual
care, there was a great quotewhich I'm going to really mess
up now.
But to really help someone aska question, to really help
someone just ask a question,it's such a profound, it was
(31:35):
taught by one clinician toanother clinician.
I think, actually, it's morelike to really show you care
about someone, ask them aquestion, and not a biased
question, not a predeterminedquestion, but a real question.
And I heard something else eventhis week I was talking to
another phenomenal beyond thewalls leader, and he quoted
(31:57):
something around.
You know, instead of beingexperts with answers and this
goes to your leadership questioninstead of being experts with
answers, why don't we becomecatalysts with questions?
Don't you love that?
I do, I know right.
Instead of being experts withanswers, let's become catalysts
with questions.
And so you do that.
(32:18):
You show people, you care forthem by asking open questions
and real questions to inquireand learn and appreciate about
them.
I tell you, if we did that, itwould change the world.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Well, I think this book has a chance to get a start
on that journey, so if I'mlooking forward to reading it
myself, I do Once again thankyou for investing the time with
the Uncommon Leader Podcast, andI wish you the best.
Let's stay in touch.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Oh my God.
Thank you so much, john.
Such a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Well, that's all for today's episode of the Uncommon
Leader Podcast.
Thanks for listening in.
Please take just a minute toshare this podcast with that
someone you know that youthought of when you heard this
episode.
One of the most valuable thingsyou can do is to rate the
podcast and leave a review.
You can do that on ApplePodcasts or you can rate the
podcast on Spotify or any otherplatform you listen.
Until next time, go and growchampions.
Hey, Uncommon Leaders , welcome back.
This is the Uncommon LeaderPodcast and I'm your host, John
Gallagher.
On today's episode, I have agreat conversation with another
Uncommon Leader, Dr Zev Neuarth,where we discuss the
transformative power ofleadership in healthcare.
Zev Neuarth is a healthcareexecutive with over 15 years of
clinical practice in internalmedicine and another 15 years in
(00:23):
clinical operations, qualityimprovement, care redesign,
population health and innovation.
His work to improve andtransform healthcare delivery
has been featured in Newsweek,Forbes, Fast Company, WebMD, the
Yale School of ManagementJournal and in two Harvard case
studies.
In 2019, Dr Neuarth publishedhis first book, Re-Framing
(00:44):
Healthcare a roadmap forcreating disruptive change.
In his second book, Beyond theWalls megatrends and market
disruptors transforming Americanhealthcare, has now been
released.
It's already achieved top newrelease on Amazon in the
category of hospitaladministration.
It outlines a three-partstrategy for the transformation
of American healthcare anddocuments dozens of examples of
(01:06):
the visionary, courageousentrepreneurs and leaders who
are transcending the constraintsof our current healthcare
delivery system.
While his new book forms thefoundation of our conversation
today, it's his passion andUncommon commitment to
transforming healthcare thatwill inspire you even more.
You're going to be moved bythis episode, so let's get
started.
(01:26):
Dr Zev Neuarth, welcome to theUncommon Leader podcast.
It is so great to reconnectwith you and have you on the
show.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
John doing great.
I love seeing you and I'm soexcited to be speaking with you.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, it's going to be a great conversation and I
want to jump right in.
I know we're going to get achance to talk about your new
book Beyond the Walls megatrends, movements and market
disruptors transforming Americanhealthcare.
Before that, I'm treating youlike the same I treat every
other first-time guest and askyou a question.
I ask him is to tell me a storyfrom your childhood that still
impacts who you are as a leaderor person today.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
When I was growing up .
My dad is an immigrant to theUnited States and very proud
American.
He's an engineer.
A mechanical and electricalengineer, grew up pretty modest
means but became a professionaland did some amazing work in his
(02:36):
career.
One thing about my dad which wasjust all the time everywhere
was that my dad would talk toeveryone.
It didn't matter where we were.
If we were in the gas station,he would talk to the gas
attendant.
If we were at a restaurant, hewould talk to the waiter or
waitress, or even the bus boysor anyone.
(03:00):
What was really remarkable tome was he treated everyone,
anyone with such respect andsuch decency and such dignity.
When we got a little older andwe were teenagers, he would say
(03:20):
to me Zev, I talked to threestar generals and I talked to
CEOs and I present in front ofthese groups as he was doing his
work in engineering and designand sales of his products.
He said they're just the sameas anyone else.
People put on their pants thesame way, they struggle the same
(03:42):
way.
I believe every human beingdeserves and needs that sense of
dignity.
What I loved about what he didtoo, was my dad loves to talk,
and that is as you'll get to seeand your listeners will get to
see.
That is one of the attributes Idid get from him.
You already know that about me,john.
Yes, I do.
(04:02):
He also listened and he was areally good listener.
Again, every gas station, Ihave to tell you, it got to be a
bit much because literally wewould stop at a gas station and
there he was talking to the gasattendant.
He could talk with that personfor like 20, 30 minutes and
we're like, hey, dad, we got toget going.
(04:23):
Same thing at the restaurant,same thing on the streets.
He just really, I think, sawthe best in people and brought
out the best in people and wascurious about people.
Again, it's that respect anddignity which I think has guided
me throughout my entire careerand actually is one of the
reasons why I've taken thecourse I have in healthcare,
(04:44):
because I did not see that samesentiment and same approach in
healthcare delivery.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I love that, and, yes , while you, while we, I do know
you well enough to know thatyou like to talk, I also know
that those positive attributesthat you really talked about,
the respect and dignity, aresomething that drew me to you
when I first met you years ago,so I appreciate you sharing that
story, and I'm sure that's theway you've continued, even
though we haven't been workingtogether for a few years.
(05:11):
So let's jump into what wereally came here to talk about,
though, and that was your newbook that's just come out.
That's number one in healthcare delivery on Amazon right
now in terms of new releases,and number one in hospital
administration for new releasesright now already, and as we
record this episode and as Irelease it, it'll be the day
that your book is officiallyreleased, so I know that it's an
exciting time, but tell, tellthe listeners of the podcast.
(05:33):
You know why, why did you writethis book and why now?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, you know this was going back a few years,
probably about seven, eight,nine years ago.
You know, I've been in healthcare, as you know, for for
decades, and as a practicingprimary care physician and then
a physician manager and then aphysician executive, doing
process improvement and qualityimprovement and care redesign
and human centered design, andthen population health and and
(05:58):
operations, and so I've been inthe Valley of the Beast for for
well over 30 years, and aboutabout nine or eight, nine years
ago I I just had sort of aseries of things happen where I
I just realized that what wewere doing was not going to get
us where we needed to.
We've been doing, and I've beenpart of this.
You know movement aftermovement.
(06:19):
You know bright, shiny object,science, technology, this, that,
the other thing.
You know thinking, operations,management, thinking that was
going to get us out of thedilemma we're in.
And also I just had thisrealization that it wasn't and
that we needed to start doingsomething really different and
in different ways and thinkingdifferently.
And so you know and you knowthis because I I'd done this
(06:42):
even back when we were workingtogether, I started to call up
people around the country andaround the world who were really
reframing health care, who weretaking a completely different
orientation to the problem.
They were, you know, in somesense going beyond the walls,
right, literally, conceptually,you know, systemically,
operationally, and and so Istarted to interview them, and I
(07:04):
did this for myself and I wouldrecord these interviews and
then I would study thetranscripts of those and then I
began to see a pattern and Iwrote about that pattern in my
first book reframing health careand I've continued to literally
do that now, obviously with apodcast, but I've recorded and
interviewed hundreds andhundreds of these beyond the
wall leaders.
(07:24):
And you know, the approach issomething which the scientists
call positive deviance.
So this is when there arethings out there that are
working.
And instead of trying to focuson the problem with the same
sort of tools that you've beenusing, why don't you go out and
see people who are actuallysolving the problem with
different ways of thinking anddifferent ways of doing it?
And that's essentially whatI've done.
And in terms of the why and why, now you know, I think the
(07:48):
facts are pretty straightforwardthe health care system is
completely broken, it is notworking and we're not talking
about yes, there's 30 millionpeople that are not insured in
America, but there's 100 millionpeople with severe medical debt
.
100 million over 40% ofAmericans are carrying medical
debt which is destroying theirlives, and I would say that the
(08:11):
vast majority, over 80%,struggle with medical care.
In fact, there was a recentreport I saw that said in the
last year was it was a, it was anational poll In the last year,
50% of Americans who weresurveyed said that they either
deferred, delayed, avoidedmedication or medical care
because they couldn't afford it50%.
So we're talking about a systemthat is unaffordable and
(08:35):
unattainable for the majority ofAmericans and it's getting
worse.
And you know we could talk aboutthe inequities and disparities
in care where literally peopleacross the country are living
less shorter lives than peoplein third world countries.
We're talking about maternalfetal mortality rate, which is
the same as it was in the CivilWar era for black women and
black children.
(08:55):
You know, on and on and on.
We're talking about the factthat you know, 50% of people
with high blood pressure are notappropriately treated and don't
have it under control.
Over 90% of people with heartfailure are not appropriately
treated and don't have it undercontrol.
The system's not working.
We're talking about 50% ofdoctors who are burnt out and
demoralized.
People are calling it moralinjury.
(09:16):
I mean, that's what theliterature is calling it.
So it's not working forproviders, the people in the
system, and it's clearly notworking for the American public,
who the system should beserving.
And so could we keep on goingand doing the same things and
saying, let's do it harder andfaster and do it bigger?
No, I don't think so.
I think that's foolishness.
We really need to reorient.
(09:37):
So the time is now.
The time is.
You know, every expert I'vetalked to has said the same
thing, every single one, withoutexception the system is not
working and it's unsustainable,it's off the tracks and we're
heading for somethingcatastrophic, and you know.
And so it's imperative, it's anexistential issue which, again,
(09:57):
so many of the experts I talkedto talk about, that it's a
moral obligation for leaders.
And so in the book, I don't talkabout problems.
I don't talk about, you know,the past.
What I'm talking about isdozens and dozens of courageous,
bold, innovative leaders thatare taking a completely
different approach, bringing newideas that are actually working
(10:18):
.
Why don't we actually studythem and look at what they're
doing, invest in that and scalethem?
And that's the approach I'vetaken, which I think is
incredibly inspiring, incrediblyhopeful, incredibly practical.
And, by the way, cmmi does thesame exact thing.
They use a positive devianceapproach.
So the federal government istrying to take that, and so does
(10:39):
the VA system, which isprobably the test kitchen for
innovation in American healthcare.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So, thank you, thank you so much for sharing that,
and I would say that is a fairlymonumental reason for action.
But what I love about what yousaid at the very end, you said
there is hope and there areleaders who are doing something
about it.
It feels like David versusGoliath at times in terms of the
size of the problem, but thereare leaders who are doing it.
Inside of your book, you'reportraying leaders who have
(11:06):
those approaches.
Is there any one story of aleader that really sticks out to
you, that you wrote about, thatyou're proud of?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Wow.
You know, the great thing, john, is that, as you point out and
there are dozens, if nothundreds, that I wish I could
share with you, and again, inthe book Beyond the Walls, I
share these hopeful, inspiring,informing and real, real leaders
who are doing real things now.
So it's not hypothetical, it'snot academic, it's not research.
(11:36):
This is really happening in theopen market, and some of them
just to be very clear, some ofthis is happening within
traditional health care,hospital systems, provider
groups.
As I mentioned, the VA is juston fire.
They're doing amazing workthere.
But so it's not just theentrepreneurs who, again, I take
my hat off to the entrepreneurswho have gone beyond the walls,
(11:56):
but it's really people who areoutside of the walls and behind
the walls, these beyond-the-wallthinkers and leaders that are
working together.
And, again, that's why it's sohopeful.
And I will say this I talk to alot of my contemporaries and,
john, you probably know this aswell A lot of people are jaded.
They've been in the businessfor 20, 30 years, and even the
younger folks, and they're burntout, they're jaded, they're
(12:19):
demoralized.
I tell you, john, and you and Ihave worked a long time ago
together I have never, ever inmy entire career, been more
inspired, more hopeful, becauseI have been making it my
business to listen to thesebeyond-the-wall leaders and all
we have to do is really createthat.
And it's a movement.
It really is and should be amovement, which is what I'm
(12:42):
excited about A story.
There's so many.
Look, there were a couple ofresearchers and who came out of
the VA and I have to take my hatoff to them because I began my
career in the VA system many,many years ago and they were
noticing when they were teachingdoctors, and they noticed that
(13:03):
their students, their residents,were coming back and telling
them okay, listen, this is apatient, 55-year-old, with these
medical problems, and here'sthe solution.
I think they came back and thentalked to the patient and they
started to hear something whichhad no language, had no ideation
, there was nothing to even callit back then.
But it was like when theystarted to actually hear the
patient's lives, they realizedthat the context of the
(13:26):
patient's lives would not allowfor that strictly clinical
medical approach to work.
It just wouldn't have worked.
The patient's lives, whether itwas the resources they did or
didn't have, it just wasn'tgonna work and so they didn't
have a name for this, and sothey started to literally study
this problem and they recordedliterally, over the past 20
(13:48):
years, over 6,000 doctor-patientvisits.
And they not only recorded them, videotaped them, they actually
coded them in a radically newway, and what they discovered
and coined was something calledcontextual care.
And they said you know what?
There are a few factors that wekeep on seeing.
They actually have 12 factors,so it's not 100, 12 factors.
(14:09):
They call them these contextualerrors or these contextual
barriers, and if you identifythem in the conversation with
people, with patients, you canactually identify them, you can
actually explore them and youactually have solution sets for
each of them.
And so over the past twodecades, they have studied this,
they have published repeatedlyin bonafide medical journals,
they've written books about it,and now they're taking these
(14:32):
contextual barriers and they'veembedded it in a
state-of-the-art AI-enabled caremanagement system with protocol
.
So the machinery is actuallypicking up these contextual
factors.
As the care managers andclinicians are talking to the
patients and their familiesthrough natural language
processing and other ways,they're picking up these
(14:52):
contextual factors, they'retriggering the team to notice
them, they're actually helpingthe team explore them and they
are actually embedded solutionsets to actually help the care
management teams and cliniciansdeal with these contextual
factors.
And they're beginning to showoutcomes in terms of now what
they've demonstrated outcomesbefore, but now they're showing
it embedded in automation,state-of-the-art automation and
(15:15):
technology, and they're showingreduced hospitalizations,
reduced readmissions, reducedcost of care, improved outcomes
of care.
It is such a brilliant story.
I spent a whole chapter in mybook talking about this story
because it is so powerful.
And again, these entrepreneurscame out of the VA system.
They came out of the belly ofthe beast, which again, I find
(15:37):
so, so inspiring.
And again for me, john, I don'tlike the blame game.
We are in the healthcare system.
I see, in fact, people usingmilitary words and warring and
blaming and pointing fingers.
Let's not do that.
People who are outside thewalls and inside the walls we've
got to gather here and this isone of the best stories I've
seen in terms of reallyhumanizing healthcare using
(16:01):
state-of-the-art technology.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I love that utilizing technology, along with the
leadership qualities that goalong with that.
I can't wait to read some ofthese stories.
I know they're gonna be reallycool and when I get the copy of
my hands, I wanna ask you youmentioned some of the leaders
that you come across.
In terms of what's happening inindustry.
They're burnout you use theterm jaded demoralized as well.
The stories and the leaders whoare carrying those things
(16:26):
forward as leaders.
Listening to this podcast, whatare the qualities that you see
in those leaders that allow themto, in essence, overcome the
challenge that is healthcare,that they're actually able to
transform healthcare?
What are their qualities?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
I'm going to be totally honestwith you, I think, what
attracted me to I'm going to behonest with you and throughout
completely transparent, ratherbecause I've been honest, but I
don't know that I have a greatanswer yet to your question.
But I will tell you this thatI've been interviewing these
(17:02):
courageous, bold leaders for nowclose to a decade, and the
things they're doing, and againso many stories come to mind.
I literally could spend thenext few days with you.
Just one story after anotherafter another, just amazingly
positive things that arehappening in healthcare here and
across the globe.
But what excited me about theseinterviews, and what's really
(17:25):
inspired me and kept me going,is that these folks were not
only reorienting and reframinghealthcare delivery, they were
reorienting and reframingthemselves.
It was a level of integritywhich, I have to tell you, I
(17:47):
admire from a distance, becauseI'm not sure that I actually
have attained that level ofintegrity and leadership yet.
But they weren't staying thesame.
They actually had to transformthemselves in order to transform
what they were doing, and noone ever taught me that.
I've never seen that in anyleadership book or text and it
(18:11):
wasn't the typical.
Here's what a leader does, andhere are the skills and here are
the talents.
It was really just a opennessand a courage and an integrity
to say I've got to change.
Concrete example of that SeanDuffy.
In Harvard Medical School, inHarvard Business School.
I write about him and so manyothers like him.
(18:31):
There he is on Longwood Avenuein Boston.
You know premier medical school, premier business school.
He's getting a dual degree andhe sees that people are coming
into the Longwood area tohospitals every single day, into
clinics every single day, andhe says you know what, with the
technology we have and this wasback in 2008 or 2009, so this is
not like today or yesterday,this was over a dozen years ago
(18:53):
he says we have the technologynow.
This is wrong.
We need to bring healthcare topeople using the technology.
And so what does he do?
And again, talk about integrity, talk about conviction, talk
about commitment.
He leaves Harvard BusinessSchool and he leaves Harvard
Medical School and he goes andhe studies digital technology.
He literally takes a year ortwo to go study that, to work in
(19:16):
a company.
So he trains himself and thenhe goes and he works at IDEO to
learn how to do design andproduct development.
Who does that?
Who has that level ofconviction and commitment?
You know it's like I believehealthcare should be this way.
I'm actually going to change mylife and change myself in order
to make myself a better leaderfor what I believe we need.
(19:38):
And he goes and he does that.
And then he creates Omada, acompany, one of the most
brilliant, trailblazing digitalhealth companies.
And again, I can tell you storyafter story after story of
leaders.
You know Chris Chen from ChenMed, a cardiologist.
You know Harvard trained,cornell trained, rather.
(19:58):
You know cardiologistsbrilliant, could have done
anything, could have made anyamount of money.
You wanted to completely leftthat to do primary care to serve
the frail, poor, elderly peoplein a radically new way.
You know, using MedicareAdvantage payment, completely
transformed primary care Again.
Who does that?
(20:19):
You know who does that Beyondthe wall leaders.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Did you know that many of the things that I
discuss on the Uncommon Leaderpodcast are subjects that I
coach other leaders andorganizations on?
If you would be interested inhaving me discuss one on one or
group coaching with you, or knowsomeone who is looking to move
from underperforming to uncommonin their business or life, I
would love to chat with you.
Click the link in the shownotes to set up a free call to
discuss how coaching mightbenefit you and your team.
(20:47):
Now back to the show.
Amen, brother.
So transparency it was.
You just talked yourself intothose qualities, right, courage,
integrity, commitment,conviction those are huge, okay,
but what I, what I hear interms of reframing self is
humility as well, though that Idon't know it all.
(21:08):
And then I've got to transformmyself to be able to transform
this process and understand it.
So you know your previous book,reframing healthcare absolutely
have to reframe yourself andwho you are as a leader.
So thank you for sharing that.
Thank you for sharing, frankly,the passion in which you shared
it.
Right, you've got to haveconviction, you've got to have
some level of thick skin to tryand fight the system that is
(21:32):
healthcare delivery today andall the things that that keep it
from going forward.
You know I hear that passionand I know you wrote this book
and you want the people thatread this book.
So oftentimes, like you see,we're not doing video, but you
see the books on the back of myshelf People read a book that
put it up on the shelf, but theone year test is when they look
at that book and they say Iremember a story from that book.
(21:54):
This is how it made me feel,this is what it made me think
and this is what it made me dothis book right here.
I can put it in one sentencewhat do you want the readers of
this book to feel?
What do you want them to think?
What do you want them to doafter they've read this book?
Come on into the video.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, first, I wrote the book for lots of folks, but
specifically for leaders, andI've talked to some colleagues
who are not sure leadership isready for this book.
I actually disagree.
I think leadership is ready.
I've seen it.
It is a catalyst for leaders.
I think people, if you read it,I can't imagine you won't be
(22:39):
inspired.
I can't imagine you won't beinformed.
I can't imagine, quite honestly, that you won't walk away with
at least one or two or threeideas that you yourself can
implement today where you areand that's what I want people to
do is you know, clearly, theinspiration is going to be there
.
I've already had feedback.
(23:00):
I handed the book out to about100, 120 people and I've gotten
tremendous feedback.
People are so inspired, but Ithink they'll also be informed
and real life examples, and so Iwrote those real life examples
in there.
These are the exemplars.
This is, you know, again, thepositive deviance we could pick
up.
Whether it doesn't matter, youknow what your situation is,
what your profession, you knowthere is something you can pick
(23:22):
up from the book that you couldliterally start to do the next
day or start to implement.
I mean, I think even justsending the message out there.
Even, you know, getting thebook.
You, john, even before we goton, you said I'm going to take
this book and hand it out to,you know, two or three friends
immediately.
Even that is an action, right,creating the spreading the
narrative, spreading theinspiration, spreading the
information.
That is a positive step,because if we don't do that, you
(23:45):
know, then it's just, it justdisappears into ether.
This has got to be that.
You know, in the epilogue tothe book, I actually do have a
call to action and I share acouple of stories which I think
are important.
You know, first of all, I justaddressed the issue.
You know, what can I do?
You can do a lot.
I mean, you know, people say tome, you know, I even asked
myself, like you know, is whatI'm doing worth anything?
(24:05):
Like, what am I doing Right?
Well, I mean, I'm at, you know,I have this podcast, like you,
and I'm getting out the messageout to thousands and thousands
of people.
And you know, even if I reachone person, one person who can
change something, oh my God.
You know, I was at a conferencein Boston about a month or so
ago and some, some guy, ran upto me and he said oh, my God,
(24:28):
are you Zeph Neweath?
And I was like, yeah, he goes.
I read your book ReframingHealthcare completely changed my
thinking, completely changed mycareer, completely changed
everything for me.
And he was so excited.
He ran home, got the book,brought it back to the
conference, you know, asked meto sign it, and I was, you know
so.
So you know it was wonderful.
But then I found out who he wasand what he did.
This guy is like the chiefmedical officer for Medicaid for
(24:50):
the entire state ofMassachusetts and I asked people
about him.
He's amazing.
I mean, people love him.
They just and look at that andhere's something I wrote which
affected someone we don't know.
When you hand the book, I mean,if you work in healthcare
organization, get this book toyour C-suite, get this book to
your board members, because theboard members have to read this
(25:10):
book.
They have to understand thethree domains I'm talking about.
If we don't do these threedomains, we will not get out of
the dilemma.
It is a comprehensive approachthat I outline with real life
examples, and so you know whatcan I do.
You know, if you want, if youdon't know, call me up or email
me after you read the book andI'll be happy to talk to you
about what you can do.
(25:31):
This issue also is this and Italk about this in the epilogue,
john, you know this.
I've been talking about thisfor quite some time, when things
in healthcare were amazing andpeople were making crazy money
and revenue.
You know, just coming in and Iwould talk to groups and they
would say to me Zev, listen, youknow we can't change now.
And I would say why?
And they would say things aretoo good to change.
(25:52):
Why would we change anything?
Why would we do something new?
Why would we go beyond thewalls?
Why would we reframe?
Now we're making so much money,okay, that's great.
And then now, when things aren'tas great and the revenue isn't
as forthcoming, and you knowhospital systems and other
healthcare systems are kind ofin a quasi-survival mode, and
you know money is tight, and sonow I hear well, zev, you can't
(26:15):
expect us to reframe, you can'texpect us to go beyond the walls
, you can't expect us tohumanize healthcare.
And so you know, the problem isthis it's never the right time,
it's never the good time tochange.
You know and John, you taughtme this years ago leaders don't.
Their conviction, theircommitment is not dependent on
(26:36):
the current moment.
You can't let it be.
It cannot, it cannot deter you.
True leaders understand thatthey have to transcend the
current moment.
They have to say this is whatwe have to do, this is the hill
we have to take, this is what wehave to accomplish, not
tomorrow or the day after that,but literally now, and with
whatever means we have, we willdo it.
Because you know something it'snever the perfect time to
(26:57):
change, and so that's what Iwould say to folks is the time
is now, the time is past.
Now, quite honestly, I sharedwith you the information, the
data it's pretty evident thereason why.
And you know what can you do?
There's a thousand things youcould do.
The first one is read the book.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Zev, you told me you were fired up when we got on
this call.
You have been man.
This is great.
I love it Absolutely.
Just a little bit of a turnhere as we get up in our time
and I want to respect your timeand I so appreciate what you
already have invested with thelisteners of the Uncommon Leader
podcast.
The proceeds from your bookyou're donating to Feeding
America.
Tell me about that.
How'd you decide to do that aswell?
(27:35):
I didn't really tell you.
I was going to ask you that,but I saw that.
I read about it.
What's there for?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
you, I wanted to donate the proceeds from the
first book to a nonprofit, andso when the second book was,
when I saw that it was going tohappen, I thought about this
long and hard, and I just abunch of reasons.
One is, first of all, feedingAmerica.
(28:01):
It's heartbreaking to thinkthat so many people in our
country and it's not a smallnumber don't have enough food,
and especially for me, it's thechildren.
It breaks my heart and so it'sa good cause, right, and there
are lots of other organizationsI could have contributed to in
the same area of Feeding America, but I chose this one.
(28:23):
And the other issue is this forme, I don't practice clinical
medicine anymore and I seefriends and family members who
are clinicians and physiciansand they do these mission trips
and I guess I could go and helpand do nonclinical stuff.
But for me I thought to myselfwow, this is my mission trip,
(28:46):
I'm going to take my proceedsand this is going to be my
mission is to, as I go out and Ido talks and I hopefully the
book will be read and sold.
And again, I really believe,john, this book needs to be in
the hands, the hearts and theheads of every single leader in
American healthcare, in everydomain whether you're in a
(29:07):
hospital system, a providergroup, pharmaceutical industry,
medical device industry,insurance industry, pbms, the
federal government, stategovernments this book needs to
be in their hands.
They have to understand what itis.
We need to do, what is working,what we need to really resource
and change policy andhealthcare around.
That's my mission, and I'm nottalking about a few thousand.
(29:29):
I'm talking about hundreds ofthousands of people who need to
read this book, and part of thereason that I donated it is
because I feel so, so good aboutsaying that and telling people.
That's my mission and I wantthem to make it their mission
and to know that I'm not goingto make one cent off of that.
This is about my mission and Iwant others to make it their
mission.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Seth Appreciate that Folks know where they can get
the book Amazon, barnes, noble,all those different outlets that
sell books.
You can go anywhere to find it.
But how can they find you, seth?
Where should folks stay intouch with you and learn more
about you?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, the podcast is one.
I'm on LinkedIn.
Actually, that's probably thefastest way.
If you just go to LinkedIn andyou message me, I promise you,
if I'm on which I am pretty muchevery day I will get back to
you.
I promise you that.
So LinkedIn is probably theeasiest way to find me.
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Thank you, zev.
I'll put that link in there aswell for LinkedIn.
Okay, finishing up, I only haveone more question for you, zev.
Again, I appreciate youinvesting the time with us.
It's the same question.
I always ask the first-timeguests on the podcast as well,
and I think you're going to havesomething passionate to tell me
again, let's bring it, but I'mgoing to give you a billboard.
You can put anything on it thatyou want to.
Okay, you can tell everybodythe message you're trying to get
(30:43):
out there.
What do you put on thatbillboard and why?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Listen, one word, listen.
You're asking me, john, beforeabout leadership, and I think
the most powerful leaders barnone not just in healthcare but
across the board this is whatI've witnessed is just our
incredible listeners.
And they hear not just thestory but the story behind the
story, and they hear the soulbehind the story behind the
(31:12):
story and they hear the spiritof it.
And I think listening is thething we need to do.
In fact, in that story I wastelling you about contextual
care, there was a great quotewhich I'm going to really mess
up now.
But to really help someone aska question, to really help
someone just ask a question,it's such a profound, it was
(31:35):
taught by one clinician toanother clinician.
I think, actually, it's morelike to really show you care
about someone, ask them aquestion, and not a biased
question, not a predeterminedquestion, but a real question.
And I heard something else eventhis week I was talking to
another phenomenal beyond thewalls leader, and he quoted
(31:57):
something around.
You know, instead of beingexperts with answers and this
goes to your leadership questioninstead of being experts with
answers, why don't we becomecatalysts with questions?
Don't you love that?
I do, I know right.
Instead of being experts withanswers, let's become catalysts
with questions.
And so you do that.
(32:18):
You show people, you care forthem by asking open questions
and real questions to inquireand learn and appreciate about
them.
I tell you, if we did that, itwould change the world.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Well, I think this book has a chance to get a start
on that journey, so if I'mlooking forward to reading it
myself, I do Once again thankyou for investing the time with
the Uncommon Leader Podcast, andI wish you the best.
Let's stay in touch.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Oh my God.
Thank you so much, john.
Such a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Well, that's all for today's episode of the Uncommon
Leader Podcast.
Thanks for listening in.
Please take just a minute toshare this podcast with that
someone you know that youthought of when you heard this
episode.
One of the most valuable thingsyou can do is to rate the
podcast and leave a review.
You can do that on ApplePodcasts or you can rate the
podcast on Spotify or any otherplatform you listen.
Until next time, go and growchampions.
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