September 19, 2024 • 55 mins
Have you ever wondered why some people effortlessly captivate audiences while others struggle to convey their ideas?
Join me as I speak with Andy, an expert in marketing and social media, who reveals actionable strategies to refine your communication skills and make a lasting impact.
Discover the power of passion and focus in communication as Andy dives into the importance of targeting specific groups to create more meaningful connections.
Understand the pitfalls of trying to please everyone and how this impacts how we communicate and how others relate to what we have to say.
Finally, we explore the journey of discovering one's passion and the fulfillment that comes from helping others.
With personal anecdotes and practical advice, we explore how to transform the way you communicate with others and resonate with your audience.
If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.
I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.
Thank you for listening, Jamie x
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Andy, how do you describe what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Boy, I do a little bit of everything, but I do all
things communication, marketing,social media that's like what I
love and what I do.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, social media, that's like what I love and what
I do.
Yeah, as a bit of background, Ihave, over the last few months,
hired and partnered up withAndy to help me communicate that
little bit better, and it'ssomething that I think all of us
can benefit enormously from.
I have found myself, oh andthis is very confronting to like
a listener of my podcast.
I was about to.
I have found myself, oh andthis is very confronting to like
a listener of my podcast.
I was about to say.
I have found myself waffling attimes and I'm thinking anybody
(00:51):
that's listened for a littlewhile has been like yes, yes,
could you get to the point?
And it's something I'mconscious of that I was like I
would like to be able tocommunicate more clearly and
more concisely, and essentiallythat's what you work with people
on when it comes to marketingmessages, and social media is
like if you're going to put apost out there, get to the point
(01:13):
.
Yeah, be more clear, delivermore value to the person in less
time, be more efficient.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Would that, be fair to say, absolutely.
Um, like.
We live in a world whereattention span is in, people's
attention span are three to fiveseconds tops, and so, to put it
in your words, when you're awaffler, it's hard to grab
(01:40):
people's attention yeah, I waskind of thinking you lose people
before you even get going.
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So I'm conscious of this, not just on social media,
but like if it's a speakingengagement, if it's an
opportunity with a client orsomething like that, if you
waffle too much, you completelydistract the flow of
conversation.
And so to work with somebody tohelp essentially improve
(02:07):
communication skills andcommunicate more efficiently,
it's really impacting, rightyeah.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
It's really, really important nowadays.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I would think, growing almost more and more
important.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
As people become more and more consumed by fast-paced
content, their attention forslow based communication just is
dwindling less and less andless right, yeah, absolutely
Like people are just so used togetting everything, getting all
of the knowledge getting oh okay, this video is going to teach
(02:39):
me this, this video I'm watchingthis for this that they are
just expecting for everything tobe super fast paced, and so
when you come and you're slowpaced, people's attention span
just goes away yeah and so it'ssuper important to actually
learn how to grab theirattention from the very first
(03:06):
approach that you have with themand also to create that
connection with them.
You always want to create aconnection with them, right yeah
.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
so, as you're sharing this, what, what's coming up
for me is that, like the mostfundamental skills that we can
have, as in like, how tocommunicate, how to relate I was
listening to gothman's talkabout this and they were like we
don't do a master's in relatingin school or in college and and
few of us would do it similarlyspeaking in communication
skills, but these are like thefundamental building blocks of
(03:39):
how we, how we flow in life and,um, and for me, I kind of
suppose I just started myjourney in self-development like
at 15 or 16 in the gym, I waslike, oh, working out was
fantastic, until this kind ofconcept of like, okay, well,
working out is great, but whatabout working in and like,
working on your mind, um,working on my breath was like
(04:02):
really interesting.
Working on communication skills.
It's really confronting when,like so I sit in front of Andy
sometimes and she'll ask me aquestion and she's like, so,
jamie, what's your thoughts onthis?
And I'll talk, and then I'llsee her being like lost me, not
good enough, and it's it'samazing to recognize sometimes,
(04:22):
when people hold up a mirror infront of you, how much of a
waffler you are, yeah, or howoff the point you go and if you
think about that, howdistracting you are when you're
communicating, how hard it isyou're actually making it for
the other person to engage withyou, right, yeah, yeah,
seriously, good training yeah,it is, it is.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
it is fantastic to see someone try to almost brain
dump on you all the knowledgethat they have, but for it not
to be appreciated by peoplebecause of that short attention
span right, because ofeverything should be fast-paced,
(05:05):
and so I would like to thinkthat that's where I come in and
be like let's try to rearrangethat so we have like little
nuggets of amazing informationeasily digestible, so that we
don't lose the people and peopledon't miss out on what you have
(05:26):
to offer for them.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, because what I find is that there's a lot of
very, very smart people, thatdon't necessarily know how to
communicate and, unfortunately,speaking, go highly
unappreciated.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And right now I certainly recognize a lot of
people that perhaps aren't assmart, but they're fantastic
communicators, and the way inwhich they communicate brings
such clarity to their pointsthat people can receive them,
people will appreciate them, andpeople will perceive them as
far more intellectual than theyare really.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, absolutely that happens every single day.
Yeah, absolutely that happensevery single day.
It's just okay.
You, some people are justbetter at it or feel comfortable
at creating content, you know,and they are just good at
communicating those bits, thoseaha bits, that people are like,
(06:24):
whoa, okay, this guy, this girl,fantastic, I need to follow
them for life, when there are somany people that have so much
knowledge to share but theyactually don't know how to, or
they get lost, or they're scaredof it, and they like, oh, and
put, and, on top of that, putthem in front of the camera and
(06:46):
it's like, no, you lost me, soyeah, it's funny, as you're
speaking you're reminding me of.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I remember dating this model once and I went to
take a photo of her and I'venever seen somebody like click
into shape of like.
I was like so photo time andthen suddenly this like amazing
pose came up and then a secondlater, a new pose and a second
later another pose and I waslike, ah, it's not just as
simple as being really pretty.
There's there's angles to playyeah and I remember then, when
(07:17):
she was like, no, look here, letme take a photo of you, but
just, could you put your handthis way, could you look that
way, could you breathe in?
I was like, oh my god, thesephotos are amazing, and I
recognize that it's not justthat world, it's everything.
Yeah, in all aspects of life.
There are, let's say, littledifferent tweaks and angles and
tools that we can applyabsolutely to bring out our best
(07:37):
, and one of the mostfundamental in these is
communicating.
Right, yeah, I'm gonna put youon the spot.
Are you ready?
Say, if you're working withsomebody and you're like okay, I
want to cover the bases here,and I always think it's easier
to bring someone from zero to 80percent quickly.
Okay, the extra 20 is a bitchallenging, but if you're
(07:57):
trying to make all almost, let'ssay, the most impacting, um, so
the biggest impact on somebody,really quickly, what are the
like, the fundamental tools,let's say, of like, here's how
you can communicate a hell of alot better, really quickly, what
comes up for you?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
um, first of all, you need to be very sure that where
you're going to communicate,you actually love, okay, what
you're trying to communicateokay, so that comes up a lot
because a lot of people aretalking into spaces that they
don't have a clue.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, so if you don't have a clue, keep your mouth
shut.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, Okay, great, because, yeah, it's like someone
told me I should do this, andthen, yeah, it's easy to just
follow on what someone tells youto do.
But then along the way, you'relike why are you even doing this
?
And I can absolutely tell fromthe get-go if you're not
passionate about what you'retalking about, about what you're
(08:52):
actually doing.
Okay.
So, first of all, you need toreally be clear on okay, are you
passionate about this?
Do you really love this thingthat you're doing?
Then great.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay, stay in your lane when it comes to
communicating.
Don't talk about subjects thatyou don't know are like.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Stay in the space of passion, because that passion
actually is so magnetic.
If you can hear passion insomebody's voice, that in itself
brings somebody in right.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah.
And then there's this likebelief that talk to everyone you
know and just talk abouteverything.
And no, it's quite the opposite.
It's just stay in your lane,talk about what you know and
talk to the people that youdecide that you want to talk to.
It's so important to change thespeech to I am talking to these
(09:46):
people that I want them to beon my community, that just to
talk to everyone and see, uh,maybe someone picks it up.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So that's really interesting for me, right,
because I found at a young agelike God, 21, 22, I had a large
platform.
I used to promote loads ofnightclubs and have these
magazines, and I found myselfspeaking and like a lot of
people would hear.
Some people would like what Ihave to say, other people were
(10:18):
repulsed by what I had to say,and a big challenge to me was
that I was like I want to talkin a universal fashion, and a
big challenge to me was that Iwas like I want to talk in a
universal fashion, I want tospeak in an unfallible fashion
where if I say something, nobodycan critique it.
And what I found very quicklyis that actually, the way in
which I spoke and communicatedjust became very vague.
Yeah, it was like what is heactually saying?
(10:51):
And I would have that reflectedback to me.
I'd be like Jamie, what are you?
saying Where's your opinion, andthat, for me, certainly came
from trying to speak toeverybody all at once, whereas
what I'm hearing from you islike Jamie, if you're actually
speaking to one particularperson or one person or one
group of people, you can speakclearly, whereas the wider that
goes, the more vague thingsbecome, the more hard it is to
hear what it is that you'reactually saying, right?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, absolutely, because you're trying to just
bring so many things in thatyour message just gets lost in
between.
And it's so funny that we'retalking about this, because I
think it was like on our firstsession together that you were
just talking and talking and Iwas like, wow, this guy really
(11:30):
just talks to the masses.
It's like I can put you on astand and it's like a
presidential speech.
You know, you talk to the mass,to the masses, and then my I
think one of the first commentsor feedback that I gave you was
like talk to me.
Yeah.
Like, stop thinking aboutpleasing everyone and giving
(11:53):
everyone an answer and justfocus on talking to me.
And.
I think that's super importantin not just you know, because,
yes, you get lost into liketalking, to trying to talk to
everyone.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I'm thinking of the politician, and I've heard
so many politicians when theyspeak that it's very easy
actually to get distracted bytheir tone and their expression.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Which feels exciting and feels passionate.
But actually if you push thataside and you really listen to
what they're saying, it's likewait, they said absolutely
nothing.
And I could do that.
I could stand up on stage and,let's say, perform, but it'd be
like wait, what did he actuallysay?
And so what I'm hearing fromyou is one, stay in your lane,
talk about what it is thatyou're passionate about.
(12:44):
but two, talk to a particularperson and, and in that there's
a recognition of like, hey look,it's okay, some people aren't
going to like what you're sayingyeah, absolutely but others are
, and if you pick a particularaudience, at least they're going
to hear what you have to say,at least there's going to be
substance in what you say,rather than this vagueness that,
(13:05):
unfortunately speaking, isabundantly everywhere right now
yeah yeah, and in doing whateverybody else does, you
unfortunately blend into thatsameness.
So if you want to communicateand you want to actually have a
voice, you really have toexercise it yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
You have to keep on that consistency of talking to
someone, talking to youraudience, like, yeah, if your
message gets spread and morepeople start coming, great, but
you're not focusing on them,you're focusing, focusing on
(13:43):
your people, on your audience.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I feel like I am slightly distracting you here
because I really want pointthree, but on point two, is
there a recognition then thatactually, if you are
communicating well, yeah, you'regoing to be talking to one
person's ears or a certain groupof people's ears and in that
you have to open yourself toopinion.
(14:09):
You have to open yourself toyeah, you're going to say
something and some people willlike you, but other people won't
.
Yeah, that's actually, in itsown way, a clear indication that
you're you're communicatingclearly yes, absolutely okay.
So hand in hand with successfulcommunication comes a bit of
conflict and challenge.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
We're always going to haveconflict.
There's always going to behaters.
You know haters are going tohate and that's all right.
I mean, I actually find itbetter to have people that
disagree with what you're saying.
But you, you know that you havean audience, you know that you
(14:49):
have a message, you know thatyou're carrying your message for
your audience for yourcommunity and if you're
developing better connectionswith your community, you're fine
yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'm recognizing for me when I reflect back on myself
, and that universal tone that Iwanted to take and
communicative style.
I didn't want to.
Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't want to deal with ummisunderstandings I didn't want
somebody to come into conflictwith my points or my opinions,
but I really recognized it wasjust vapid, empty May as well,
(15:26):
have not actually said anything,and that's actually really sad
to have a voice and not use itfor fear of challenge or for
fear of misunderstanding.
It's a kind of I'm going to feelthat that was the way society
impressed upon me that I shouldspeak up.
Don't, yeah, don't createdisturbances Don't create
(15:51):
disturbances, but unfortunatelythat just vanillared me.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Absolutely.
And then you're, you're blendedwith everyone else, and how are
you going to stand out in aworld with hundreds of millions
of people creating?
Yeah.
You need to be true to yourself.
You need to be yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Accept that in your truth.
Some will love it, and that'sgreat, and some will hate it,
and that's great too.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And that's also great .
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Indicative of progress and clarity.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Lovely Okay, you clarity.
Yeah, lovely.
Okay, you ready?
Yeah, third, third one.
No, because that actuallythere's so much in that.
Speak to your audience, beaccepting of misunderstanding,
be accepting of challenge.
What comes up as like a thirdpointer for somebody who's
trying to develop theircommunications skills or develop
(16:46):
their voice?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I would say the over planning and that fear of just
getting started.
That's one of I think it's oneof the biggest steps to overcome
people usually get lost on Ineed to plan, I need to plan,
(17:12):
okay, okay, okay, in a month Iwill start creating the content,
doing this or doing whatever itis that they're doing right.
And then something always comesup and they just keep on using
that as an excuse of maybe nextweek, maybe next week.
(17:32):
And so I always say, like,start today, like I don't care
how much planning you want to do, keep your planning, yes, but
you need to start to start todayyeah, there's nothing like
jumping in the deep end to learnfast.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, and there's nothing that, for me anyway,
sees me learn slower than preppreparatory work and getting
lost in that.
Pre I started thinking anddistracting myself with every
possible eventuality and everypossible way of doing something,
and I actually don't really domuch yeah um, so what you're
(18:09):
saying is practice, and whetherthat's like if you're trying to
develop your speaking skills,join a speaking club and speak,
or if it's on social media whereso many people are like.
I don't know how to post, it'slike.
Well, the easiest way is tochallenge yourself to post every
day Exactly, and pretty soonyou're going to get better at it
because you've committedyourself to that trajectory.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, yeah, so it's.
It's super funny for me becauseI find in every, in every
industry.
Let's say, I find a yogateacher and they're like oh,
yeah, no, okay, I, I am going tostart next month.
And it's like okay, you knowthat you practice yoga every
(18:51):
single day.
Right, and that's how you've,you've, your practice have grown
.
It's the exact same thing withyour communication skills.
If you don't practice them, ifyou don't exercise, do them,
you're never going to get betteryeah but it's that fear.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know that prepping, that planning, no, you
just need to deep dive into itand throw yourself out of the
cliff, if you will well, it'sfunny when you share that for me
, because the analogy of likethe gym comes up for me yeah,
absolutely like a lot of us areme going into the gym and
building bad habits and thenbeing very hard to rewrite with
(19:31):
the trainer, like so, when Ithink of communication skills
and like jumping into the deepend, I'm thinking of like you
know, because somebody mightlisten to that and be like, hey,
I'm communicating every day.
What are you talking about?
It's like no, we are passivelycommunicating every day.
Yeah, we are generally wordvomiting on people yeah, and to
switch that to a more consciouseffort when communicating, to
(19:53):
challenge yourself to speak moreclearly yeah, and to
communicate more efficiently,that's what this is all about.
And to almost review aconversation with yourself and
be like how did I communicate?
Was I clear?
Was I to the point?
Did the person understand whatI said?
Yeah, I love it.
So once a week, I sit in frontof Andy and she asks these
(20:17):
questions and I answer them andshe gives feedback and it's a
really constructive process it'sa simple process and I think
oftentimes the simple thingsthat we do are overlooked.
But they can't.
They have the ability orcapacity to be the most
impacting yeah, absolutely like,if we think about, our life is
(20:37):
made up of all these differentconversations that we have every
day, with ourselves as wellabsolutely and if we're uh, yeah
, if we can, if we can betterthat, if we can better the,
let's say, the, the way in whichwe're communicating with others
, we can get more, feel moreconnected, yeah, feel more
(20:58):
impact, make greater progressand, ultimately speaking, feel
more at peace.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right, yeah, which is the ultimate goal?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
so yeah, absolutely uh, okay, I I I'm curious how
the hell did you get into thisspace?
I probably should have askedyou this before we started
working together, but but it'slike it's a really cool field.
It must be very fulfillingseeing someone actually get over
their communication blocks.
(21:27):
How did you find yourself inthis space?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
It's super funny because back then and then years
, throwing it back to years andyears before, when I was in high
school, I usually was thefriend that all of my friends
would come to my place and Iwould play teacher and that's
how we would study for likeexams, you know.
(21:53):
And so my house would be likecovered with like papers on the
walls and I would like bewriting like we need to study.
I don't know geography, so thecapitals of the cities, right,
or the capitals of the countries, and I would be right, you
would find me writing in likethis papers that my house would
(22:13):
be covered in, like writingeverything sorry one second.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
What age were you?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I was in high school high school is what age?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
15, 16 okay, I have heard of dorks before and this
is like a whole new level.
Oh my gosh, you would, youwould you didn't have your cup
full of school that actually,when school finished, you would
come home and play more schoolyeah, yeah, absolutely oh my
gosh wow because it was justlike a great way for me and for
(22:43):
my friends to study.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You know I would be.
I have always been good at okay, reading something and thinking
, okay, what's my major takeawayfrom this?
This little message, and thatthat's how I studied, that's how
I helped my friends study.
And so, if you put it now fastforward, how many years have it
(23:09):
been after that?
I basically do the same thing.
I grab information and I put itin a way and in a sense that
you get what you need out ofthat ginormous tons of
information.
I put it or I work for it in away that it serves people to
(23:34):
understand and get the messagebetter so you've been doing this
since the age of 14 15.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Sorry, I'm just thinking of cultural differences
.
Yes, so when I was 14, 15,hanging around corners and like
doing nothing with myself,basically you were running study
groups.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Wow, and is this the norm in Ecuador?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I don't think it's the norm was.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
it was just how I did it, wow, and my friends would
come over to my house and wewould do it that way and that's
how you built your connectionsessentially with your friends
that you like, they, they sawthis great skill in you and you
all bonded and connected overthis expertise.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, oh my gosh and so I in life, I got lost into
the what would I, what should Ido?
And I studied a bunch of stuffand I did, and I had so many
jobs.
But then if there's one thingthat it always add to the same
thing, it's I've always beendoing the exact same thing.
(24:41):
It's like no.
From all of this, from thisginormous email that you just
sent me, the only thing thatmatters is, that is, are those
three lines?
yeah and then fast forward tonow it's it's it's what I do and
it's why what I love love doingand you feel love and
connection from it too right.
(25:02):
Absolutely, and I've, like, Ishare this with you all the time
on our sessions.
It's like it's so fulfilling towatch you from that first
session that we had to, how nowyou actually are starting to
communicate, to, okay,understand things better.
(25:22):
You are now, you know, now,after you've done a video you
know that was waffly, oh no, no,no, this is this was better,
this was concise and it's likeah, it's just such a great
feeling and it's the exact samefeeling I got from teaching my
friends and being like, hey,this is this and this is that.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's like ah, it's so nice to see the growth.
I bring up this quote so often.
But Steve Jobs when he sharesthat, like you, can't connect
the dots looking forward.
But they all make sense whenyou look back and I love that
you can look back and trace backto being 14, 15, that this was
your skill and all the differentjobs that you had in between
were essentially refining anddeveloping the skills where you
(26:07):
are right now.
Yeah, I look back and thepattern amongst everything that
I did as well was there wasalways a level of coaching.
There was always a level of mehelping people figure themselves
out.
Yeah.
And helping people do thingsmore efficiently, helping people
thrive, and back then I had noidea what it would look like
going forward.
Yeah, me either.
But now it's like, oh yeah,that just makes so much sense.
(26:29):
And I, similarly speaking, Itake so much pride and
fulfillment when I see somebodybreaking through their own
boundaries or their blocks arelike stepping up to a new level
of potential.
I'm like go you.
I feel so much from that andyou feel similarly when you you
see people getting to the pointyeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And then I've always known and I was a cheerleader
too in school.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I am a great cheerleader still now in life
lovely, so you love helpingpeople and then cheering them on
yeah, it's, it's literally thatyeah, so it's an interesting
sphere, like, like, so coachingit's the fastest growing space
at the moment, absolutely interms of career, and it really
is, because there is coachingeverything yes and I have found
(27:19):
myself sitting in front of somany people being like would you
just get to the point, come onhurry up and I love it.
I love our work together.
I love exactly as like it'svery confronting, recognizing
hey, you're waffling.
Hey, get to the point, stopdistracting I know but so
(27:42):
helpful, so positively impacting.
And I, I, I can just see allthe different.
Like I, I've jumped into somany different areas of coaching
, but what I recognize is themore fundamental you get, the
more impacting, because it justit, it spreads into so many
other areas of your life and towork on the simplest thing of
(28:03):
your communication skills makesso much sense.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, they are so, so important.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I normally ask, like I have this kind of question.
I'm like you know, when youreflect back on your years to
where you are right now, what doyou think was like one of the
key lessons that led you towhere you are?
But actually you seem todiscover pretty early it like oh
no, this is what I've alwaysbeen doing.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I mean, yes, but then it hasn't always been like that
, like I got my years when Ijust got maybe lost in.
Okay, I work for a company andI'm assigned a job, you know,
and you just follow what youhave to do.
But then, looking back, yeah, Ialways into that, even in that
(28:56):
following of this is what you doI always find myself doing the
exact same thing that I do andit's like, okay, yeah, this is
great how you do it, but howabout we do it this way?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
My imagination is getting the better of me.
I'm thinking were you born toparents that just talked nonstop
and never made any pointswhatsoever?
Were you the victim of awfulcommunication?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
No, no no.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
No, this just kind of came.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Maybe I don't think, I don't know, but no, but that
wasn't the case in my family.
Like, if we're trying to trackit down, like to back then, that
wasn't the case.
Like I grew up in a familywhere actually there wasn't much
communication, because I have adad, that it's like what I'm
(29:51):
saying is how it's done, youknow and so there wasn't much
room for arguing or waffling no,now.
This makes so much sense it waslike okay, it's this way so
your father was clear into thepoint absolutely it was I like
it green.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
We're all going to do green and so you really didn't
have too much time, space, humorfor no lack of clarity.
yeah, and you'll be like, get tothe point.
And so when it came to schooland it came to teaching, you
were like, okay, that's all fine, but here's the core point.
Is that correct?
And for others, who didn'tnecessarily have that attachment
or the connection to the point,you were able to say that's
(30:33):
what this lesson was about.
Yeah, here's what you need toknow.
You don't need to know anythingelse.
This is the core points.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, the core points .
Yeah, okay, I am.
My brain is a constant.
That could have been an email.
You know where you go to ameeting and you have a
three-hour meeting and you'resitting there all the time
thinking this is not helping,this is not adding to anything,
and then, finally, you find theone key thing out of it.
My brain is thinking andworking that way all day long.
(31:06):
From everything that I do, it'slike this could have been just
this, this could have been justthis.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's just how it works so, when it comes to now,
you're not just efficient interms of communication, you're
efficient to all other areas ofyour life.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I try to.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Try to.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, I don't know if I'm being successful at it in
every single area of my life,but I try to be concise.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So where does this show up most successfully
separate to your communication?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I have no idea.
interesting one to sit onabsolutely but yeah, no, I
training I, yeah, I know Iactually think, like if we're
sitting on it and talking aboutit, I actually think it's just
how I conduct my everyday life,like I am super specific with my
(32:08):
timing, with what I dothroughout the day.
It's like I'm going to trainand so I go, and I make sure
that I focus on what I need todo and it's like OK, done, done.
My workout, my workout, is veryimportant in my life.
I will say, and then I move onto the next task and I will look
(32:30):
for ways to make things easier,to make things move faster.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
So I love.
I've been an observer for Godas long as I can remember.
I love people watching.
What I recognize in you is it'salmost comical how organized
you are.
So, for the benefit of thelistener, andy's phone is color
coded.
Her apps are all followdifferent colors.
So, for example, say, like allthe social media apps on her
(32:59):
phone are a single color so shecan easily identify them.
Then they're similarly foldedand then the work-related apps
are another color and allsimilarly folded.
She's extraordinarilyregimented to her calendar and a
very, very presence.
She doesn't multitask.
When she's doing something,she's doing that, only that, but
there's a certain timeconstraint.
And again, it's clear and tothe point.
(33:23):
You're not going to be diluteddown, you're not going to be
trying to do multiple things, asyou wouldn't speak about
multiple things at once.
It's linear, it's simple, it'sto the point and it's very
functional.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You get in, you do what you need to do and you get
out, and then you move to thenext one.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, there's a great saying how you do one thing is
how you do everything.
Yeah, and that's the kind ofthe point that I was trying to
explore, but I was also tryingto see how does this benefit you
and does it perhaps hold youback in any other areas?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I do think that it's helpful or beneficial in terms
of getting things done.
Like I am good and I would saythat my friends get benefited of
, for example, me planning stuff, like I am the friend that when
you have a, when you'retraveling, I am the friend that
(34:14):
does the itinerary, that knowswhat we're going to do, where
are we going to do it.
So, for example, I will planwhere I'm staying in terms of
what restaurants are nearby orwhat activities do I want to do,
so that we are the mostefficient and we don't lose time
on commuting from one place toanother.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Brilliant.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I am that person.
I will say that it's beneficialin that sense because I try to
just optimize my time, my work,even my free time.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
In the best way possible.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Because time is valuable right.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And can you actually sit and watch movies?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
You don't like scream at the director and be like get
to the point.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Sometimes I do have that's like why there was a
thought in my mind of that, likemaybe she just watches trailers
no, and I actually don't like.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Well, I do like trailers, but I don't like
trailers when they're telling mewhat's happening in the movie.
Well, like, like the finalthing, that's happened.
It's like why do I need towatch the movie anymore?
Like the final thing that'shappened.
It's like why do I need towatch the movie anymore?
Like you just told me.
Like so, goodbye, no watchingthis movie yeah, I get that.
I get that exactly, but forexample, I struggle with that on
books.
I read and I love reading, um,but I struggle with not getting
(35:45):
stressed because I don't knowwhat's going to happen and it's
like I have to follow the orderof the book but I would love to
just jump to the end, you know.
But yeah, it's something that Ipractice while I'm reading.
It's like you have to read thestory.
All of the details areimportant.
Just keep on reading.
(36:06):
Slowly but surely you've gotthis it's lovely.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
it's lovely for me to explore that with you, because
there's a lot of skills that youwould share or you would have
right, that I would really envyand that I would love to have in
my life to a point.
But I always think people arethe way they are because they've
recognized that that's, in ablended fashion, what serves
them best.
There might be certain areasthat don't, but they kind of
help prop up other areas that do, and this nice balancing act
(36:33):
going on.
But I always find that I learnthe most from somebody like
yourself where there's, let'ssay, an extremity, like an
extremity in terms of clarityand communication, highly
organized.
I love, like, if we go back tothe kind of the what we talked
about, this like talking toeverybody.
When you're talking toeverybody, it's very hard to
(36:58):
make a point, and when therearen't these, let's say,
extremes in terms of a character, it's actually very hard to
take learnings.
But when I sit in front of youand when I like want the amount
of learnings with regards tocommunication that I've taken
from you, I'm like thank you.
But exploring the other areasof your life, I'm like ah that's
.
I see how that serves really,really well.
Like I recognize with me, Idon't take that much time when
it comes to like planning whereI'm going to stay and I end up
in traffic a lot.
I end up too far away from theplaces I want to go.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Can, can I bring you back, then, to your profession
and, like what you've shared interms of for anyone when it
comes to communicating is reallyreally good, like one, make
sure you're passionate aboutwhatever it is that you're
communicating or speaking aboutMost important thing Stay in
your lane, stay away from thestuff that you aren't Speak to
(37:43):
someone directly.
I love that.
Don't be afraid of theconsequences of that.
Don't be afraid of like one.
Don't get too attached to thosethat like what you're saying.
Don't get too attached topeople that don't Look to be
fair.
Just if you are sayingsomething, that's going to
happen.
If you aren't saying something,if you're kind of talking to
everybody, nobody's actuallyreally going to get the
opportunity to connect becausethere's nothing to connect to.
(38:05):
I love that.
And the third point for somereason, as I'm going point one,
point two, I'm actuallyforgetting, but I'm.
I think anyone can rewind back.
But I'm curious like a lot ofpeople are really interested in
the whole social media sphereand sorry.
Yes, your third point was reallyjust throw yourself in the deep
end and actually just get going.
Are there any obvious pointersthat you're like Jamie, I'm on
(38:27):
your bloody podcast and I didn'tget to share this point and
this is a really valuable point.
Does anything else come?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
up.
Yes, and especially coming froma recovering perfectionist
there's no such thing asperfection when it comes to
social media.
And when it comes to the worldand when it comes to
communication, there's no suchthing as perfection.
When it comes to social media,and when it comes to the world
and when it comes tocommunication, there's no such
(38:52):
thing as perfection, and we areour own worst judges you know,
and critiques, and so I find somany people trying to create
something and then just notlaunching it ever, because it's
always, it's not perfect, it canbe better.
No, I could have said thisbetter, I could have done better
(39:15):
, I could have better, always,always, self-inflicting that and
it's.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
There's no perfection yeah there is none I, I, I was
kind of reading a good piece onthis that was saying, look, if
you can just get something to80%, it's good enough.
And focus on good enough ratherthan perfect.
And if you just do good enough,you'll end up putting yourself
out there and learning so muchfaster that you will get to
(39:42):
perfect.
Yeah, but when you get there,it will actually just be good
enough and perfect will havewill have evolved on a few more
steps that, good enough, isbetter than 90 of what's out
there already so catch yourself,if you're catch yourself, if
you're over indulging inperfectionism and actually just
go for it absolutely, yeah, Iwould spend hours.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, I like to cook like very much.
It's a part of my life.
If I wouldn't be doing this, Iwould be a chef for real wow
like.
That's what I the.
My other passion is cooking,and I would not invite my
friends over to like have dinneror lunch at my place because of
(40:29):
my fear of no, this is not,this is not that great and it's.
And whenever someone would comeand I would have to like I
don't know, whip something outof the blue just because they're
at my place and it's, I'm alsovery like.
This is how I was raised, likealways try to accommodate and be
(40:53):
the best host that you can,right, and so it will be like
okay, I just made this likereally quickly, I'm sorry if
it's not good, and everyonewould always be like what are
you talking about?
Like this is amazing.
And it's like, oh, okay, maybeI'm kind of acceptable, at least
you know, and it's just howeveryone is.
(41:14):
You're always thinking that, oh, this is not good enough, like
no, no, no one is going to likethis like.
And the truth is how, whateverit looks like right now, it's
perfect.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
So watch yourself when you're perhaps overthinking
.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, absolutely Watch yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
When you're paralyzing yourself with this
kind of want and desire forperfectionism.
Give yourself a chance.
If something's okay chances areit's actually good enough put
it out there.
And then, going back to yourprior point and putting it out
there, you'll learn faster andyou'll grow and perhaps commit
yourself to the learning journey.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Okay they're all connected yeah it's like you
follow the steps.
They all connected all witheach other, Any following step
missed.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I kind of take what you're sharing.
Don't over-critique yourself.
Yes, take the learnings, butdon't beat yourself up.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, yeah, and from that you will just keep on
growing and growing and growing,yeah, and from that you will
just keep on growing and growingand growing.
Yeah.
Whatever it is that you're doing, as long as you're passionate
for it, for it, it will justkeep getting better and better
(42:41):
and you'll just keep gettingbetter at it.
Every time is going to feelmore comfortable, every time is
going to look and feel easier,and it's not that it's easier,
it's just that you're gettingbetter.
You're putting the practice andyou're putting the work in.
You know, and if you manage tokeep yourself in the lane, focus
on that and not trying to justpeople please everything which,
(43:07):
if you ask me, nowadays it'slike kind of hard because people
just come at you and be like,oh, maybe you should be doing
that too, you know, but no, it'sfocus on what you know, focus,
focus on what you love and stayin your lane, put in the work
and eventually, yeah, you'llachieve everything.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I'm kind of getting this picture of like put in the
work and eventually you'llachieve everything.
I'm kind of getting thispicture of like put yourself on
a learning journey and a bigpart of that learning journey is
putting yourself out there.
So, for example's sake, thereis, let's say, the potential
hosts.
Who puts themselves under suchpressure to host spectacularly,
doesn't get there, cancels andkeeps going through that
naturally grows to hate the ideaof hosting Because they never
(43:51):
got the return of welcomingpeople in and people going.
Oh, this is lovely, regardlessof how it actually was, but that
energy exchange is key, whereasthe person that just actually
did something, regardless of howsmall, and welcomes people in
and got that feedback and builta bit of momentum, built a bit
of confidence.
That's the learning journey thatallows things to grow and
develop and expand yeah where,so many times, when people
(44:12):
commit themselves to something,they never give themselves that
exposure for the energy toreturn to them, for the feedback
loop to complete and to allowthem to go again and go again.
Yeah, and they wear on theirown energy without getting
anything back.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah and, in that sense, um, I think one essential
step or, as a final step, couldalways be listen to your
community, for example, in thiscase, listen to your friends and
the feedback you know, there isso much knowledge on your
(44:46):
community.
So, for example, let's say thatyou're posting constantly on
social media and you getcomments and you get DMs from
people that are actuallyresonating with what you're
saying.
Listen to what they're saying,listen to what they're bringing
to the table, because on thosecomments, on those DMs, in that
(45:07):
communication exchange, you findso many things.
You find inspiration to keep onlike, wow, someone mentioned
something that you're like oh,that wasn't like.
That didn't come to me as anidea at first, but now that you
mentioned it, yes, you're right,that is actually one of the
(45:30):
things that I'm passionate aboutand that I want to talk to.
So they're a great source ofinspiration for what you're
trying to put out there.
And then it's just so thefeeling of learning from someone
that you're actually helpingthem.
You know that they feel thatthey resonate with your message,
(45:54):
that they actually take awaywhat you're trying to offer.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It's just so fulfilling that it's it's
motivation to to keep on goingyeah, so what I'm kind of I've
kind of got two examples and ifwe go back to the prior point,
it's like the person who is likeconstantly creating posts but
never actually publishing them.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Unfortunately, that person is going to absolutely
grow to hate it after a littlewhile.
Hate it and then, if theyactually ever posted one thing,
rather than challengingthemselves to figure out what to
post, if they posted one thing,rather than challenging
themselves to figure out what topost, if they posted one thing
and people said, oh, I like thisand I don't like this, it helps
guide them along in terms ofwhat to post next.
Absolutely actually just followthat journey little by little.
(46:35):
It will point you in thedirection of what's going to
resonate most with those thatare engaging with you yeah yeah,
so actually really listenrather than try to imagine up
our creative yeah, you don'thave.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
You don't have to have all of the answers you like
people think that you need tocome up with all of these ideas
of what you do, and sometimesall you need to do is listen to
your community, listen to whatyour friends are saying it's
funny what you're sharing.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I'm recognizing that we all put well.
Some of us may, and I certainlyhave put myself under an
enormous amount of pressure.
Yeah, like it's a lot, lotharder to speak to everybody all
at once rather than oneparticular audience.
Yeah, it's very hard speakinginto subjects you don't have a
clue in yeah and what I love interms of what you shared and
what I'm kind of really reallylearning is it's okay to say I
(47:29):
actually don't have a clue aboutthat space yeah whereas it
feels like everybody has to havean opinion on everything right
now.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
You don't know so like there's so much power
actually in recognizing that.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
No, yeah, you don't have a say in that I'd love if
there was like a very famousperson being interviewed or
something, and they asked them aquestion and the person said
actually you know, that's not myarea of expertise, I can't
comment on that.
Like it's comical now watchingthe American elections and
everybody has to have their ownchoice.
Who are they voting for and whyare they voting for them?
And there's a lot of peoplethat have no, like I would say,
(48:00):
political value.
Yeah, and as celebrities, their, their opinion is being
broadcast out to the masses andit's like why this person has no
weight, no insight, no anythingin that sphere.
So, yeah, what I kind of feelis that we put ourselves under
an enormity of unnecessarypressure, even to the last point
that you shared there, of like,if it comes to you putting
(48:23):
yourself out there, that youhave to imagine up all the
subjects, it's like no, actually, if you just put one post out
there and then listen to whatsomebody questions back,
anything that becomes your.
Your next point to share upon.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
It's just a great source of inspiration.
Yeah, listening to what peoplehave to say about what you just
posted yeah in those.
It's in those conversationsthat you have through dms, when
someone is sharing somethingthat maybe they felt after they
(48:54):
watched your video or they readyour post.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's in those conversations that actual
inspiration is yeah, becausewhen you gave your first point
of like be passionate about it,really love it yeah I I think
about, like your note withregards to hosting, like you can
(49:20):
put yourself under crazypressure in terms to host
blissfully, and everything likethat, but, ultimately speaking,
it's really about the connectionbetween those and your guests.
Yeah, enjoying that moment.
And I think a lot of us putourselves under this crazy like
when it comes to social media,this crazy pressure of like if
I'm going to post, it needs tobe perfect and, in actual fact,
for whatever it is that you post, it's going to resonate with
(49:40):
some people.
It's not going to resonate withothers, but there's a great joy
in terms of enjoying thatenergetic flow yeah and if you
can actually just move yourselfto a way in which you can enjoy
whatever it is you're doing,energy will build.
But if you're overthinking it,if you're stressing yourself
with the perfectionism, it'sgoing to become really
burdensome, to the point thatyou don't want to do it at all.
Yeah, so how can?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
you and everyone gets lost in that yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, if you can look at it and go, how am I going to
enjoy this?
How can I make this a bit offun?
And for some, I completelyunderstand online trolls.
They make it so much fun forthemselves that of course,
they're going to go out and doit because they enjoy the
reactions that they're getting.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
So if you're thinking about putting yourself out
there communicating more onsocial, how can you enjoy it
more?
Is probably one of the biggestquestions you can ask, not like
what are all the things you needto be doing, but how can you
enjoy this process more?
How can it bring energy to you?
Speaker 2 (50:33):
because if it does, then you'll probably want to do
more and it'll flow better and Ithink that my answer is on the
first point that I make thatit's you need to be passionate
about it.
If you're talking aboutsomething that you're not really
passionate about, if you'recreating things around something
(50:54):
that doesn't really fulfill you, then it it's going to get
dirty, it's going to get bad,it's going to get boring to get
bad.
It's going to get boring.
It it's also never going tolook or feel the way that you've
imagined for it to look becauseit's not sincere.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
yeah, really goes down to the core part of like
spend time figuring out what itis that you love in life and
forever, however much time thatmight take, it, will, ultimately
speaking, stand to you in termsof just the energy and charge
that comes from that.
But don't get lost doingsomething that doesn't evoke
that passion or that energy fromyou Because unfortunately,
(51:34):
speaking over time it will takeits toll and pull you down into
a bit of a downward spiral.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah.
So there's this exercise that Iactually love to tell people to
do to like, find that, and it'slike make a list of the things
that you like and the thingsthat you love, and basically the
difference between those two,which tons of people get lost in
, is the things that you loveare things that you can do every
(52:01):
single day and not get tired ofthem, but there also are things
that you like, but could youactually do those things that
you like every single day?
And that's how you startcrossing things out and be like
oh no, uh, okay, yes, I can, I Ilike doing, but no, I can't do
(52:27):
this every day.
It doesn't drive me to keep ondoing and doing every day.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
As you were sharing that, I was like, oh, she's
going to say, write down thethings that you like and the
things that you hate, but inactual fact, that
differentiation between what youlike and what you absolutely
love, it's really powerful.
Yeah.
Because I can recognize there'sfew things that I really love,
that I can do every day.
There is loads of things that Ilike, loads of things that I
think I could do often, but if Iburden myself with the thought
(52:56):
of doing them every day, I'mlike, oh God, I don't really
love that.
And having a category or havinglike a note of these are the
things that you really love isvery helpful, actually when it
comes to carving out what's,what am I going to do with
myself?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
what is going to stimulate me?
Because you're actually gettingto understand what are you
really passionate about.
There is a complete differencein between liking something and
loving something you can getlike completely.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
You can grow out of that love that you have for a
thing that you just simply likeyeah you know, it's actually
quite interesting that a lot ofpeople are probably boring
themselves to death doing thingsthat they like.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah, and not love, and that's what, at the end of
the day, make everything,everything what they're doing
not enjoyable on the long term.
Because if you really reallydon't love it, then no matter
how enthusiastic you are aboutsomething that you're doing,
(54:05):
eventually you're going to getbored yeah, like things that you
like can get burnt out quiteeasily things that you love seem
to almost like multiply andcompound and then the things
that you love, find a way tolike, just keep multiplying and
bring you more fulfillment,because, because it's it's what
you really love, it's whatyou're really passionate about
(54:26):
yeah, it's completely differentfrom just liking it's a really
good filter on purpose.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Like a really good filter on purpose because I
think, yeah, in my experiencethere's loads of things that
I've done that I've liked, onlyto realize that I don't really
like that much, but there's veryfew things that I love, very
few things that I can do everyday.
Yeah.
And I noticed that the thingsthat I do love yeah, they expand
, Whereas the things that I likecontracts.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, they always contract, they always have an
expiration date to put itsomehow.
But then the things that youlove, love, they just keep on
growing and growing and growingandy, lovely finishing point,
thank you yeah, I'm happy toshare.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Hopefully it will help someone yeah, do you mind
me asking if somebody is tryingto reach out or to get in touch
with you, what's the best way todo that?
Um instagram I would sayinstagram or, honestly, just
sent me a text lovely, and let'sconnect well, I'm not going to
leave your mess your number inthe bottom of this podcast.
But what?
Speaker 2 (55:32):
I will do.
Is you can?
You can leave my Instagramhandle.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yes lovely Andy.
Thank you so much for sharingthank you, I've loved it.
Andy, how do you describe what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Boy, I do a little bit of everything, but I do all
things communication, marketing,social media that's like what I
love and what I do.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, social media, that's like what I love and what
I do.
Yeah, as a bit of background, Ihave, over the last few months,
hired and partnered up withAndy to help me communicate that
little bit better, and it'ssomething that I think all of us
can benefit enormously from.
I have found myself, oh andthis is very confronting to like
a listener of my podcast.
I was about to.
I have found myself, oh andthis is very confronting to like
a listener of my podcast.
I was about to say.
I have found myself waffling attimes and I'm thinking anybody
(00:51):
that's listened for a littlewhile has been like yes, yes,
could you get to the point?
And it's something I'mconscious of that I was like I
would like to be able tocommunicate more clearly and
more concisely, and essentiallythat's what you work with people
on when it comes to marketingmessages, and social media is
like if you're going to put apost out there, get to the point
(01:13):
.
Yeah, be more clear, delivermore value to the person in less
time, be more efficient.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Would that, be fair to say, absolutely.
Um, like.
We live in a world whereattention span is in, people's
attention span are three to fiveseconds tops, and so, to put it
in your words, when you're awaffler, it's hard to grab
(01:40):
people's attention yeah, I waskind of thinking you lose people
before you even get going.
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So I'm conscious of this, not just on social media,
but like if it's a speakingengagement, if it's an
opportunity with a client orsomething like that, if you
waffle too much, you completelydistract the flow of
conversation.
And so to work with somebody tohelp essentially improve
(02:07):
communication skills andcommunicate more efficiently,
it's really impacting, rightyeah.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
It's really, really important nowadays.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I would think, growing almost more and more
important.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
As people become more and more consumed by fast-paced
content, their attention forslow based communication just is
dwindling less and less andless right, yeah, absolutely
Like people are just so used togetting everything, getting all
of the knowledge getting oh okay, this video is going to teach
(02:39):
me this, this video I'm watchingthis for this that they are
just expecting for everything tobe super fast paced, and so
when you come and you're slowpaced, people's attention span
just goes away yeah and so it'ssuper important to actually
learn how to grab theirattention from the very first
(03:06):
approach that you have with themand also to create that
connection with them.
You always want to create aconnection with them, right yeah
.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
so, as you're sharing this, what, what's coming up
for me is that, like the mostfundamental skills that we can
have, as in like, how tocommunicate, how to relate I was
listening to gothman's talkabout this and they were like we
don't do a master's in relatingin school or in college and and
few of us would do it similarlyspeaking in communication
skills, but these are like thefundamental building blocks of
(03:39):
how we, how we flow in life and,um, and for me, I kind of
suppose I just started myjourney in self-development like
at 15 or 16 in the gym, I waslike, oh, working out was
fantastic, until this kind ofconcept of like, okay, well,
working out is great, but whatabout working in and like,
working on your mind, um,working on my breath was like
(04:02):
really interesting.
Working on communication skills.
It's really confronting when,like so I sit in front of Andy
sometimes and she'll ask me aquestion and she's like, so,
jamie, what's your thoughts onthis?
And I'll talk, and then I'llsee her being like lost me, not
good enough, and it's it'samazing to recognize sometimes,
(04:22):
when people hold up a mirror infront of you, how much of a
waffler you are, yeah, or howoff the point you go and if you
think about that, howdistracting you are when you're
communicating, how hard it isyou're actually making it for
the other person to engage withyou, right, yeah, yeah,
seriously, good training yeah,it is, it is.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
it is fantastic to see someone try to almost brain
dump on you all the knowledgethat they have, but for it not
to be appreciated by peoplebecause of that short attention
span right, because ofeverything should be fast-paced,
(05:05):
and so I would like to thinkthat that's where I come in and
be like let's try to rearrangethat so we have like little
nuggets of amazing informationeasily digestible, so that we
don't lose the people and peopledon't miss out on what you have
(05:26):
to offer for them.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, because what I find is that there's a lot of
very, very smart people, thatdon't necessarily know how to
communicate and, unfortunately,speaking, go highly
unappreciated.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And right now I certainly recognize a lot of
people that perhaps aren't assmart, but they're fantastic
communicators, and the way inwhich they communicate brings
such clarity to their pointsthat people can receive them,
people will appreciate them, andpeople will perceive them as
far more intellectual than theyare really.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, absolutely that happens every single day.
Yeah, absolutely that happensevery single day.
It's just okay.
You, some people are justbetter at it or feel comfortable
at creating content, you know,and they are just good at
communicating those bits, thoseaha bits, that people are like,
(06:24):
whoa, okay, this guy, this girl,fantastic, I need to follow
them for life, when there are somany people that have so much
knowledge to share but theyactually don't know how to, or
they get lost, or they're scaredof it, and they like, oh, and
put, and, on top of that, putthem in front of the camera and
(06:46):
it's like, no, you lost me, soyeah, it's funny, as you're
speaking you're reminding me of.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I remember dating this model once and I went to
take a photo of her and I'venever seen somebody like click
into shape of like.
I was like so photo time andthen suddenly this like amazing
pose came up and then a secondlater, a new pose and a second
later another pose and I waslike, ah, it's not just as
simple as being really pretty.
There's there's angles to playyeah and I remember then, when
(07:17):
she was like, no, look here, letme take a photo of you, but
just, could you put your handthis way, could you look that
way, could you breathe in?
I was like, oh my god, thesephotos are amazing, and I
recognize that it's not justthat world, it's everything.
Yeah, in all aspects of life.
There are, let's say, littledifferent tweaks and angles and
tools that we can applyabsolutely to bring out our best
(07:37):
, and one of the mostfundamental in these is
communicating.
Right, yeah, I'm gonna put youon the spot.
Are you ready?
Say, if you're working withsomebody and you're like okay, I
want to cover the bases here,and I always think it's easier
to bring someone from zero to 80percent quickly.
Okay, the extra 20 is a bitchallenging, but if you're
(07:57):
trying to make all almost, let'ssay, the most impacting, um, so
the biggest impact on somebody,really quickly, what are the
like, the fundamental tools,let's say, of like, here's how
you can communicate a hell of alot better, really quickly, what
comes up for you?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
um, first of all, you need to be very sure that where
you're going to communicate,you actually love, okay, what
you're trying to communicateokay, so that comes up a lot
because a lot of people aretalking into spaces that they
don't have a clue.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, so if you don't have a clue, keep your mouth
shut.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, Okay, great, because, yeah, it's like someone
told me I should do this, andthen, yeah, it's easy to just
follow on what someone tells youto do.
But then along the way, you'relike why are you even doing this
?
And I can absolutely tell fromthe get-go if you're not
passionate about what you'retalking about, about what you're
(08:52):
actually doing.
Okay.
So, first of all, you need toreally be clear on okay, are you
passionate about this?
Do you really love this thingthat you're doing?
Then great.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay, stay in your lane when it comes to
communicating.
Don't talk about subjects thatyou don't know are like.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Stay in the space of passion, because that passion
actually is so magnetic.
If you can hear passion insomebody's voice, that in itself
brings somebody in right.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah.
And then there's this likebelief that talk to everyone you
know and just talk abouteverything.
And no, it's quite the opposite.
It's just stay in your lane,talk about what you know and
talk to the people that youdecide that you want to talk to.
It's so important to change thespeech to I am talking to these
(09:46):
people that I want them to beon my community, that just to
talk to everyone and see, uh,maybe someone picks it up.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So that's really interesting for me, right,
because I found at a young agelike God, 21, 22, I had a large
platform.
I used to promote loads ofnightclubs and have these
magazines, and I found myselfspeaking and like a lot of
people would hear.
Some people would like what Ihave to say, other people were
(10:18):
repulsed by what I had to say,and a big challenge to me was
that I was like I want to talkin a universal fashion, and a
big challenge to me was that Iwas like I want to talk in a
universal fashion, I want tospeak in an unfallible fashion
where if I say something, nobodycan critique it.
And what I found very quicklyis that actually, the way in
which I spoke and communicatedjust became very vague.
Yeah, it was like what is heactually saying?
(10:51):
And I would have that reflectedback to me.
I'd be like Jamie, what are you?
saying Where's your opinion, andthat, for me, certainly came
from trying to speak toeverybody all at once, whereas
what I'm hearing from you islike Jamie, if you're actually
speaking to one particularperson or one person or one
group of people, you can speakclearly, whereas the wider that
goes, the more vague thingsbecome, the more hard it is to
hear what it is that you'reactually saying, right?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, absolutely, because you're trying to just
bring so many things in thatyour message just gets lost in
between.
And it's so funny that we'retalking about this, because I
think it was like on our firstsession together that you were
just talking and talking and Iwas like, wow, this guy really
(11:30):
just talks to the masses.
It's like I can put you on astand and it's like a
presidential speech.
You know, you talk to the mass,to the masses, and then my I
think one of the first commentsor feedback that I gave you was
like talk to me.
Yeah.
Like, stop thinking aboutpleasing everyone and giving
(11:53):
everyone an answer and justfocus on talking to me.
And.
I think that's super importantin not just you know, because,
yes, you get lost into liketalking, to trying to talk to
everyone.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I'm thinking of the politician, and I've heard
so many politicians when theyspeak that it's very easy
actually to get distracted bytheir tone and their expression.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Which feels exciting and feels passionate.
But actually if you push thataside and you really listen to
what they're saying, it's likewait, they said absolutely
nothing.
And I could do that.
I could stand up on stage and,let's say, perform, but it'd be
like wait, what did he actuallysay?
And so what I'm hearing fromyou is one, stay in your lane,
talk about what it is thatyou're passionate about.
(12:44):
but two, talk to a particularperson and, and in that there's
a recognition of like, hey look,it's okay, some people aren't
going to like what you're sayingyeah, absolutely but others are
, and if you pick a particularaudience, at least they're going
to hear what you have to say,at least there's going to be
substance in what you say,rather than this vagueness that,
(13:05):
unfortunately speaking, isabundantly everywhere right now
yeah yeah, and in doing whateverybody else does, you
unfortunately blend into thatsameness.
So if you want to communicateand you want to actually have a
voice, you really have toexercise it yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
You have to keep on that consistency of talking to
someone, talking to youraudience, like, yeah, if your
message gets spread and morepeople start coming, great, but
you're not focusing on them,you're focusing, focusing on
(13:43):
your people, on your audience.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I feel like I am slightly distracting you here
because I really want pointthree, but on point two, is
there a recognition then thatactually, if you are
communicating well, yeah, you'regoing to be talking to one
person's ears or a certain groupof people's ears and in that
you have to open yourself toopinion.
(14:09):
You have to open yourself toyeah, you're going to say
something and some people willlike you, but other people won't
.
Yeah, that's actually, in itsown way, a clear indication that
you're you're communicatingclearly yes, absolutely okay.
So hand in hand with successfulcommunication comes a bit of
conflict and challenge.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
We're always going to haveconflict.
There's always going to behaters.
You know haters are going tohate and that's all right.
I mean, I actually find itbetter to have people that
disagree with what you're saying.
But you, you know that you havean audience, you know that you
(14:49):
have a message, you know thatyou're carrying your message for
your audience for yourcommunity and if you're
developing better connectionswith your community, you're fine
yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'm recognizing for me when I reflect back on myself
, and that universal tone that Iwanted to take and
communicative style.
I didn't want to.
Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't want to deal with ummisunderstandings I didn't want
somebody to come into conflictwith my points or my opinions,
but I really recognized it wasjust vapid, empty May as well,
(15:26):
have not actually said anything,and that's actually really sad
to have a voice and not use itfor fear of challenge or for
fear of misunderstanding.
It's a kind of I'm going to feelthat that was the way society
impressed upon me that I shouldspeak up.
Don't, yeah, don't createdisturbances Don't create
(15:51):
disturbances, but unfortunatelythat just vanillared me.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Absolutely.
And then you're, you're blendedwith everyone else, and how are
you going to stand out in aworld with hundreds of millions
of people creating?
Yeah.
You need to be true to yourself.
You need to be yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Accept that in your truth.
Some will love it, and that'sgreat, and some will hate it,
and that's great too.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And that's also great .
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Indicative of progress and clarity.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Lovely Okay, you clarity.
Yeah, lovely.
Okay, you ready?
Yeah, third, third one.
No, because that actuallythere's so much in that.
Speak to your audience, beaccepting of misunderstanding,
be accepting of challenge.
What comes up as like a thirdpointer for somebody who's
trying to develop theircommunications skills or develop
(16:46):
their voice?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I would say the over planning and that fear of just
getting started.
That's one of I think it's oneof the biggest steps to overcome
people usually get lost on Ineed to plan, I need to plan,
(17:12):
okay, okay, okay, in a month Iwill start creating the content,
doing this or doing whatever itis that they're doing right.
And then something always comesup and they just keep on using
that as an excuse of maybe nextweek, maybe next week.
(17:32):
And so I always say, like,start today, like I don't care
how much planning you want to do, keep your planning, yes, but
you need to start to start todayyeah, there's nothing like
jumping in the deep end to learnfast.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, and there's nothing that, for me anyway,
sees me learn slower than preppreparatory work and getting
lost in that.
Pre I started thinking anddistracting myself with every
possible eventuality and everypossible way of doing something,
and I actually don't really domuch yeah um, so what you're
(18:09):
saying is practice, and whetherthat's like if you're trying to
develop your speaking skills,join a speaking club and speak,
or if it's on social media whereso many people are like.
I don't know how to post, it'slike.
Well, the easiest way is tochallenge yourself to post every
day Exactly, and pretty soonyou're going to get better at it
because you've committedyourself to that trajectory.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, yeah, so it's.
It's super funny for me becauseI find in every, in every
industry.
Let's say, I find a yogateacher and they're like oh,
yeah, no, okay, I, I am going tostart next month.
And it's like okay, you knowthat you practice yoga every
(18:51):
single day.
Right, and that's how you've,you've, your practice have grown
.
It's the exact same thing withyour communication skills.
If you don't practice them, ifyou don't exercise, do them,
you're never going to get betteryeah but it's that fear.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know that prepping, that planning, no, you
just need to deep dive into itand throw yourself out of the
cliff, if you will well, it'sfunny when you share that for me
, because the analogy of likethe gym comes up for me yeah,
absolutely like a lot of us areme going into the gym and
building bad habits and thenbeing very hard to rewrite with
(19:31):
the trainer, like so, when Ithink of communication skills
and like jumping into the deepend, I'm thinking of like you
know, because somebody mightlisten to that and be like, hey,
I'm communicating every day.
What are you talking about?
It's like no, we are passivelycommunicating every day.
Yeah, we are generally wordvomiting on people yeah, and to
switch that to a more consciouseffort when communicating, to
(19:53):
challenge yourself to speak moreclearly yeah, and to
communicate more efficiently,that's what this is all about.
And to almost review aconversation with yourself and
be like how did I communicate?
Was I clear?
Was I to the point?
Did the person understand whatI said?
Yeah, I love it.
So once a week, I sit in frontof Andy and she asks these
(20:17):
questions and I answer them andshe gives feedback and it's a
really constructive process it'sa simple process and I think
oftentimes the simple thingsthat we do are overlooked.
But they can't.
They have the ability orcapacity to be the most
impacting yeah, absolutely like,if we think about, our life is
(20:37):
made up of all these differentconversations that we have every
day, with ourselves as wellabsolutely and if we're uh, yeah
, if we can, if we can betterthat, if we can better the,
let's say, the, the way in whichwe're communicating with others
, we can get more, feel moreconnected, yeah, feel more
(20:58):
impact, make greater progressand, ultimately speaking, feel
more at peace.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Right, yeah, which is the ultimate goal?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
so yeah, absolutely uh, okay, I I I'm curious how
the hell did you get into thisspace?
I probably should have askedyou this before we started
working together, but but it'slike it's a really cool field.
It must be very fulfillingseeing someone actually get over
their communication blocks.
(21:27):
How did you find yourself inthis space?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
It's super funny because back then and then years
, throwing it back to years andyears before, when I was in high
school, I usually was thefriend that all of my friends
would come to my place and Iwould play teacher and that's
how we would study for likeexams, you know.
(21:53):
And so my house would be likecovered with like papers on the
walls and I would like bewriting like we need to study.
I don't know geography, so thecapitals of the cities, right,
or the capitals of the countries, and I would be right, you
would find me writing in likethis papers that my house would
(22:13):
be covered in, like writingeverything sorry one second.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
What age were you?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I was in high school high school is what age?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
15, 16 okay, I have heard of dorks before and this
is like a whole new level.
Oh my gosh, you would, youwould you didn't have your cup
full of school that actually,when school finished, you would
come home and play more schoolyeah, yeah, absolutely oh my
gosh wow because it was justlike a great way for me and for
(22:43):
my friends to study.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You know I would be.
I have always been good at okay, reading something and thinking
, okay, what's my major takeawayfrom this?
This little message, and thatthat's how I studied, that's how
I helped my friends study.
And so, if you put it now fastforward, how many years have it
(23:09):
been after that?
I basically do the same thing.
I grab information and I put itin a way and in a sense that
you get what you need out ofthat ginormous tons of
information.
I put it or I work for it in away that it serves people to
(23:34):
understand and get the messagebetter so you've been doing this
since the age of 14 15.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Sorry, I'm just thinking of cultural differences
.
Yes, so when I was 14, 15,hanging around corners and like
doing nothing with myself,basically you were running study
groups.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Wow, and is this the norm in Ecuador?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I don't think it's the norm was.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
it was just how I did it, wow, and my friends would
come over to my house and wewould do it that way and that's
how you built your connectionsessentially with your friends
that you like, they, they sawthis great skill in you and you
all bonded and connected overthis expertise.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, oh my gosh and so I in life, I got lost into
the what would I, what should Ido?
And I studied a bunch of stuffand I did, and I had so many
jobs.
But then if there's one thingthat it always add to the same
thing, it's I've always beendoing the exact same thing.
(24:41):
It's like no.
From all of this, from thisginormous email that you just
sent me, the only thing thatmatters is, that is, are those
three lines?
yeah and then fast forward tonow it's it's it's what I do and
it's why what I love love doingand you feel love and
connection from it too right.
(25:02):
Absolutely, and I've, like, Ishare this with you all the time
on our sessions.
It's like it's so fulfilling towatch you from that first
session that we had to, how nowyou actually are starting to
communicate, to, okay,understand things better.
(25:22):
You are now, you know, now,after you've done a video you
know that was waffly, oh no, no,no, this is this was better,
this was concise and it's likeah, it's just such a great
feeling and it's the exact samefeeling I got from teaching my
friends and being like, hey,this is this and this is that.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's like ah, it's so nice to see the growth.
I bring up this quote so often.
But Steve Jobs when he sharesthat, like you, can't connect
the dots looking forward.
But they all make sense whenyou look back and I love that
you can look back and trace backto being 14, 15, that this was
your skill and all the differentjobs that you had in between
were essentially refining anddeveloping the skills where you
(26:07):
are right now.
Yeah, I look back and thepattern amongst everything that
I did as well was there wasalways a level of coaching.
There was always a level of mehelping people figure themselves
out.
Yeah.
And helping people do thingsmore efficiently, helping people
thrive, and back then I had noidea what it would look like
going forward.
Yeah, me either.
But now it's like, oh yeah,that just makes so much sense.
(26:29):
And I, similarly speaking, Itake so much pride and
fulfillment when I see somebodybreaking through their own
boundaries or their blocks arelike stepping up to a new level
of potential.
I'm like go you.
I feel so much from that andyou feel similarly when you you
see people getting to the pointyeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And then I've always known and I was a cheerleader
too in school.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I am a great cheerleader still now in life
lovely, so you love helpingpeople and then cheering them on
yeah, it's, it's literally thatyeah, so it's an interesting
sphere, like, like, so coachingit's the fastest growing space
at the moment, absolutely interms of career, and it really
is, because there is coachingeverything yes and I have found
(27:19):
myself sitting in front of somany people being like would you
just get to the point, come onhurry up and I love it.
I love our work together.
I love exactly as like it'svery confronting, recognizing
hey, you're waffling.
Hey, get to the point, stopdistracting I know but so
(27:42):
helpful, so positively impacting.
And I, I, I can just see allthe different.
Like I, I've jumped into somany different areas of coaching
, but what I recognize is themore fundamental you get, the
more impacting, because it justit, it spreads into so many
other areas of your life and towork on the simplest thing of
(28:03):
your communication skills makesso much sense.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, they are so, so important.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I normally ask, like I have this kind of question.
I'm like you know, when youreflect back on your years to
where you are right now, what doyou think was like one of the
key lessons that led you towhere you are?
But actually you seem todiscover pretty early it like oh
no, this is what I've alwaysbeen doing.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I mean, yes, but then it hasn't always been like that
, like I got my years when Ijust got maybe lost in.
Okay, I work for a company andI'm assigned a job, you know,
and you just follow what youhave to do.
But then, looking back, yeah, Ialways into that, even in that
(28:56):
following of this is what you doI always find myself doing the
exact same thing that I do andit's like, okay, yeah, this is
great how you do it, but howabout we do it this way?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
My imagination is getting the better of me.
I'm thinking were you born toparents that just talked nonstop
and never made any pointswhatsoever?
Were you the victim of awfulcommunication?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
No, no no.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
No, this just kind of came.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Maybe I don't think, I don't know, but no, but that
wasn't the case in my family.
Like, if we're trying to trackit down, like to back then, that
wasn't the case.
Like I grew up in a familywhere actually there wasn't much
communication, because I have adad, that it's like what I'm
(29:51):
saying is how it's done, youknow and so there wasn't much
room for arguing or waffling no,now.
This makes so much sense it waslike okay, it's this way so
your father was clear into thepoint absolutely it was I like
it green.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
We're all going to do green and so you really didn't
have too much time, space, humorfor no lack of clarity.
yeah, and you'll be like, get tothe point.
And so when it came to schooland it came to teaching, you
were like, okay, that's all fine, but here's the core point.
Is that correct?
And for others, who didn'tnecessarily have that attachment
or the connection to the point,you were able to say that's
(30:33):
what this lesson was about.
Yeah, here's what you need toknow.
You don't need to know anythingelse.
This is the core points.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, the core points .
Yeah, okay, I am.
My brain is a constant.
That could have been an email.
You know where you go to ameeting and you have a
three-hour meeting and you'resitting there all the time
thinking this is not helping,this is not adding to anything,
and then, finally, you find theone key thing out of it.
My brain is thinking andworking that way all day long.
(31:06):
From everything that I do, it'slike this could have been just
this, this could have been justthis.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's just how it works so, when it comes to now,
you're not just efficient interms of communication, you're
efficient to all other areas ofyour life.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I try to.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Try to.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, I don't know if I'm being successful at it in
every single area of my life,but I try to be concise.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So where does this show up most successfully
separate to your communication?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I have no idea.
interesting one to sit onabsolutely but yeah, no, I
training I, yeah, I know Iactually think, like if we're
sitting on it and talking aboutit, I actually think it's just
how I conduct my everyday life,like I am super specific with my
(32:08):
timing, with what I dothroughout the day.
It's like I'm going to trainand so I go, and I make sure
that I focus on what I need todo and it's like OK, done, done.
My workout, my workout, is veryimportant in my life.
I will say, and then I move onto the next task and I will look
(32:30):
for ways to make things easier,to make things move faster.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
So I love.
I've been an observer for Godas long as I can remember.
I love people watching.
What I recognize in you is it'salmost comical how organized
you are.
So, for the benefit of thelistener, andy's phone is color
coded.
Her apps are all followdifferent colors.
So, for example, say, like allthe social media apps on her
(32:59):
phone are a single color so shecan easily identify them.
Then they're similarly foldedand then the work-related apps
are another color and allsimilarly folded.
She's extraordinarilyregimented to her calendar and a
very, very presence.
She doesn't multitask.
When she's doing something,she's doing that, only that, but
there's a certain timeconstraint.
And again, it's clear and tothe point.
(33:23):
You're not going to be diluteddown, you're not going to be
trying to do multiple things, asyou wouldn't speak about
multiple things at once.
It's linear, it's simple, it'sto the point and it's very
functional.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You get in, you do what you need to do and you get
out, and then you move to thenext one.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, there's a great saying how you do one thing is
how you do everything.
Yeah, and that's the kind ofthe point that I was trying to
explore, but I was also tryingto see how does this benefit you
and does it perhaps hold youback in any other areas?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I do think that it's helpful or beneficial in terms
of getting things done.
Like I am good and I would saythat my friends get benefited of
, for example, me planning stuff, like I am the friend that when
you have a, when you'retraveling, I am the friend that
(34:14):
does the itinerary, that knowswhat we're going to do, where
are we going to do it.
So, for example, I will planwhere I'm staying in terms of
what restaurants are nearby orwhat activities do I want to do,
so that we are the mostefficient and we don't lose time
on commuting from one place toanother.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Brilliant.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I am that person.
I will say that it's beneficialin that sense because I try to
just optimize my time, my work,even my free time.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
In the best way possible.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Because time is valuable right.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
And can you actually sit and watch movies?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
You don't like scream at the director and be like get
to the point.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Sometimes I do have that's like why there was a
thought in my mind of that, likemaybe she just watches trailers
no, and I actually don't like.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Well, I do like trailers, but I don't like
trailers when they're telling mewhat's happening in the movie.
Well, like, like the finalthing, that's happened.
It's like why do I need towatch the movie anymore?
Like the final thing that'shappened.
It's like why do I need towatch the movie anymore?
Like you just told me.
Like so, goodbye, no watchingthis movie yeah, I get that.
I get that exactly, but forexample, I struggle with that on
books.
I read and I love reading, um,but I struggle with not getting
(35:45):
stressed because I don't knowwhat's going to happen and it's
like I have to follow the orderof the book but I would love to
just jump to the end, you know.
But yeah, it's something that Ipractice while I'm reading.
It's like you have to read thestory.
All of the details areimportant.
Just keep on reading.
(36:06):
Slowly but surely you've gotthis it's lovely.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
it's lovely for me to explore that with you, because
there's a lot of skills that youwould share or you would have
right, that I would really envyand that I would love to have in
my life to a point.
But I always think people arethe way they are because they've
recognized that that's, in ablended fashion, what serves
them best.
There might be certain areasthat don't, but they kind of
help prop up other areas that do, and this nice balancing act
(36:33):
going on.
But I always find that I learnthe most from somebody like
yourself where there's, let'ssay, an extremity, like an
extremity in terms of clarityand communication, highly
organized.
I love, like, if we go back tothe kind of the what we talked
about, this like talking toeverybody.
When you're talking toeverybody, it's very hard to
(36:58):
make a point, and when therearen't these, let's say,
extremes in terms of a character, it's actually very hard to
take learnings.
But when I sit in front of youand when I like want the amount
of learnings with regards tocommunication that I've taken
from you, I'm like thank you.
But exploring the other areasof your life, I'm like ah that's
.
I see how that serves really,really well.
Like I recognize with me, Idon't take that much time when
it comes to like planning whereI'm going to stay and I end up
in traffic a lot.
I end up too far away from theplaces I want to go.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Can, can I bring you back, then, to your profession
and, like what you've shared interms of for anyone when it
comes to communicating is reallyreally good, like one, make
sure you're passionate aboutwhatever it is that you're
communicating or speaking aboutMost important thing Stay in
your lane, stay away from thestuff that you aren't Speak to
(37:43):
someone directly.
I love that.
Don't be afraid of theconsequences of that.
Don't be afraid of like one.
Don't get too attached to thosethat like what you're saying.
Don't get too attached topeople that don't Look to be
fair.
Just if you are sayingsomething, that's going to
happen.
If you aren't saying something,if you're kind of talking to
everybody, nobody's actuallyreally going to get the
opportunity to connect becausethere's nothing to connect to.
(38:05):
I love that.
And the third point for somereason, as I'm going point one,
point two, I'm actuallyforgetting, but I'm.
I think anyone can rewind back.
But I'm curious like a lot ofpeople are really interested in
the whole social media sphereand sorry.
Yes, your third point was reallyjust throw yourself in the deep
end and actually just get going.
Are there any obvious pointersthat you're like Jamie, I'm on
(38:27):
your bloody podcast and I didn'tget to share this point and
this is a really valuable point.
Does anything else come?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
up.
Yes, and especially coming froma recovering perfectionist
there's no such thing asperfection when it comes to
social media.
And when it comes to the worldand when it comes to
communication, there's no suchthing as perfection.
When it comes to social media,and when it comes to the world
and when it comes tocommunication, there's no such
(38:52):
thing as perfection, and we areour own worst judges you know,
and critiques, and so I find somany people trying to create
something and then just notlaunching it ever, because it's
always, it's not perfect, it canbe better.
No, I could have said thisbetter, I could have done better
(39:15):
, I could have better, always,always, self-inflicting that and
it's.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
There's no perfection yeah there is none I, I, I was
kind of reading a good piece onthis that was saying, look, if
you can just get something to80%, it's good enough.
And focus on good enough ratherthan perfect.
And if you just do good enough,you'll end up putting yourself
out there and learning so muchfaster that you will get to
(39:42):
perfect.
Yeah, but when you get there,it will actually just be good
enough and perfect will havewill have evolved on a few more
steps that, good enough, isbetter than 90 of what's out
there already so catch yourself,if you're catch yourself, if
you're over indulging inperfectionism and actually just
go for it absolutely, yeah, Iwould spend hours.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Oh, I like to cook like very much.
It's a part of my life.
If I wouldn't be doing this, Iwould be a chef for real wow
like.
That's what I the.
My other passion is cooking,and I would not invite my
friends over to like have dinneror lunch at my place because of
(40:29):
my fear of no, this is not,this is not that great and it's.
And whenever someone would comeand I would have to like I
don't know, whip something outof the blue just because they're
at my place and it's, I'm alsovery like.
This is how I was raised, likealways try to accommodate and be
(40:53):
the best host that you can,right, and so it will be like
okay, I just made this likereally quickly, I'm sorry if
it's not good, and everyonewould always be like what are
you talking about?
Like this is amazing.
And it's like, oh, okay, maybeI'm kind of acceptable, at least
you know, and it's just howeveryone is.
(41:14):
You're always thinking that, oh, this is not good enough, like
no, no, no one is going to likethis like.
And the truth is how, whateverit looks like right now, it's
perfect.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
So watch yourself when you're perhaps overthinking
.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, absolutely Watch yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
When you're paralyzing yourself with this
kind of want and desire forperfectionism.
Give yourself a chance.
If something's okay chances areit's actually good enough put
it out there.
And then, going back to yourprior point and putting it out
there, you'll learn faster andyou'll grow and perhaps commit
yourself to the learning journey.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Okay they're all connected yeah it's like you
follow the steps.
They all connected all witheach other, Any following step
missed.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I kind of take what you're sharing.
Don't over-critique yourself.
Yes, take the learnings, butdon't beat yourself up.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, yeah, and from that you will just keep on
growing and growing and growing,yeah, and from that you will
just keep on growing and growingand growing.
Yeah.
Whatever it is that you're doing, as long as you're passionate
for it, for it, it will justkeep getting better and better
(42:41):
and you'll just keep gettingbetter at it.
Every time is going to feelmore comfortable, every time is
going to look and feel easier,and it's not that it's easier,
it's just that you're gettingbetter.
You're putting the practice andyou're putting the work in.
You know, and if you manage tokeep yourself in the lane, focus
on that and not trying to justpeople please everything which,
(43:07):
if you ask me, nowadays it'slike kind of hard because people
just come at you and be like,oh, maybe you should be doing
that too, you know, but no, it'sfocus on what you know, focus,
focus on what you love and stayin your lane, put in the work
and eventually, yeah, you'llachieve everything.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I'm kind of getting this picture of like put in the
work and eventually you'llachieve everything.
I'm kind of getting thispicture of like put yourself on
a learning journey and a bigpart of that learning journey is
putting yourself out there.
So, for example's sake, thereis, let's say, the potential
hosts.
Who puts themselves under suchpressure to host spectacularly,
doesn't get there, cancels andkeeps going through that
naturally grows to hate the ideaof hosting Because they never
(43:51):
got the return of welcomingpeople in and people going.
Oh, this is lovely, regardlessof how it actually was, but that
energy exchange is key, whereasthe person that just actually
did something, regardless of howsmall, and welcomes people in
and got that feedback and builta bit of momentum, built a bit
of confidence.
That's the learning journey thatallows things to grow and
develop and expand yeah where,so many times, when people
(44:12):
commit themselves to something,they never give themselves that
exposure for the energy toreturn to them, for the feedback
loop to complete and to allowthem to go again and go again.
Yeah, and they wear on theirown energy without getting
anything back.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah and, in that sense, um, I think one essential
step or, as a final step, couldalways be listen to your
community, for example, in thiscase, listen to your friends and
the feedback you know, there isso much knowledge on your
(44:46):
community.
So, for example, let's say thatyou're posting constantly on
social media and you getcomments and you get DMs from
people that are actuallyresonating with what you're
saying.
Listen to what they're saying,listen to what they're bringing
to the table, because on thosecomments, on those DMs, in that
(45:07):
communication exchange, you findso many things.
You find inspiration to keep onlike, wow, someone mentioned
something that you're like oh,that wasn't like.
That didn't come to me as anidea at first, but now that you
mentioned it, yes, you're right,that is actually one of the
(45:30):
things that I'm passionate aboutand that I want to talk to.
So they're a great source ofinspiration for what you're
trying to put out there.
And then it's just so thefeeling of learning from someone
that you're actually helpingthem.
You know that they feel thatthey resonate with your message,
(45:54):
that they actually take awaywhat you're trying to offer.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It's just so fulfilling that it's it's
motivation to to keep on goingyeah, so what I'm kind of I've
kind of got two examples and ifwe go back to the prior point,
it's like the person who is likeconstantly creating posts but
never actually publishing them.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Unfortunately, that person is going to absolutely
grow to hate it after a littlewhile.
Hate it and then, if theyactually ever posted one thing,
rather than challengingthemselves to figure out what to
post, if they posted one thing,rather than challenging
themselves to figure out what topost, if they posted one thing
and people said, oh, I like thisand I don't like this, it helps
guide them along in terms ofwhat to post next.
Absolutely actually just followthat journey little by little.
(46:35):
It will point you in thedirection of what's going to
resonate most with those thatare engaging with you yeah yeah,
so actually really listenrather than try to imagine up
our creative yeah, you don'thave.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
You don't have to have all of the answers you like
people think that you need tocome up with all of these ideas
of what you do, and sometimesall you need to do is listen to
your community, listen to whatyour friends are saying it's
funny what you're sharing.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
I'm recognizing that we all put well.
Some of us may, and I certainlyhave put myself under an
enormous amount of pressure.
Yeah, like it's a lot, lotharder to speak to everybody all
at once rather than oneparticular audience.
Yeah, it's very hard speakinginto subjects you don't have a
clue in yeah and what I love interms of what you shared and
what I'm kind of really reallylearning is it's okay to say I
(47:29):
actually don't have a clue aboutthat space yeah whereas it
feels like everybody has to havean opinion on everything right
now.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
You don't know so like there's so much power
actually in recognizing that.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
No, yeah, you don't have a say in that I'd love if
there was like a very famousperson being interviewed or
something, and they asked them aquestion and the person said
actually you know, that's not myarea of expertise, I can't
comment on that.
Like it's comical now watchingthe American elections and
everybody has to have their ownchoice.
Who are they voting for and whyare they voting for them?
And there's a lot of peoplethat have no, like I would say,
(48:00):
political value.
Yeah, and as celebrities, their, their opinion is being
broadcast out to the masses andit's like why this person has no
weight, no insight, no anythingin that sphere.
So, yeah, what I kind of feelis that we put ourselves under
an enormity of unnecessarypressure, even to the last point
that you shared there, of like,if it comes to you putting
(48:23):
yourself out there, that youhave to imagine up all the
subjects, it's like no, actually, if you just put one post out
there and then listen to whatsomebody questions back,
anything that becomes your.
Your next point to share upon.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
It's just a great source of inspiration.
Yeah, listening to what peoplehave to say about what you just
posted yeah in those.
It's in those conversationsthat you have through dms, when
someone is sharing somethingthat maybe they felt after they
(48:54):
watched your video or they readyour post.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's in those conversations that actual
inspiration is yeah, becausewhen you gave your first point
of like be passionate about it,really love it yeah I I think
about, like your note withregards to hosting, like you can
(49:20):
put yourself under crazypressure in terms to host
blissfully, and everything likethat, but, ultimately speaking,
it's really about the connectionbetween those and your guests.
Yeah, enjoying that moment.
And I think a lot of us putourselves under this crazy like
when it comes to social media,this crazy pressure of like if
I'm going to post, it needs tobe perfect and, in actual fact,
for whatever it is that you post, it's going to resonate with
(49:40):
some people.
It's not going to resonate withothers, but there's a great joy
in terms of enjoying thatenergetic flow yeah and if you
can actually just move yourselfto a way in which you can enjoy
whatever it is you're doing,energy will build.
But if you're overthinking it,if you're stressing yourself
with the perfectionism, it'sgoing to become really
burdensome, to the point thatyou don't want to do it at all.
Yeah, so how can?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
you and everyone gets lost in that yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, if you can look at it and go, how am I going to
enjoy this?
How can I make this a bit offun?
And for some, I completelyunderstand online trolls.
They make it so much fun forthemselves that of course,
they're going to go out and doit because they enjoy the
reactions that they're getting.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
So if you're thinking about putting yourself out
there communicating more onsocial, how can you enjoy it
more?
Is probably one of the biggestquestions you can ask, not like
what are all the things you needto be doing, but how can you
enjoy this process more?
How can it bring energy to you?
Speaker 2 (50:33):
because if it does, then you'll probably want to do
more and it'll flow better and Ithink that my answer is on the
first point that I make thatit's you need to be passionate
about it.
If you're talking aboutsomething that you're not really
passionate about, if you'recreating things around something
(50:54):
that doesn't really fulfill you, then it it's going to get
dirty, it's going to get bad,it's going to get boring to get
bad.
It's going to get boring.
It it's also never going tolook or feel the way that you've
imagined for it to look becauseit's not sincere.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
yeah, really goes down to the core part of like
spend time figuring out what itis that you love in life and
forever, however much time thatmight take, it, will, ultimately
speaking, stand to you in termsof just the energy and charge
that comes from that.
But don't get lost doingsomething that doesn't evoke
that passion or that energy fromyou Because unfortunately,
(51:34):
speaking over time it will takeits toll and pull you down into
a bit of a downward spiral.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah.
So there's this exercise that Iactually love to tell people to
do to like, find that, and it'slike make a list of the things
that you like and the thingsthat you love, and basically the
difference between those two,which tons of people get lost in
, is the things that you loveare things that you can do every
(52:01):
single day and not get tired ofthem, but there also are things
that you like, but could youactually do those things that
you like every single day?
And that's how you startcrossing things out and be like
oh no, uh, okay, yes, I can, I Ilike doing, but no, I can't do
(52:27):
this every day.
It doesn't drive me to keep ondoing and doing every day.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
As you were sharing that, I was like, oh, she's
going to say, write down thethings that you like and the
things that you hate, but inactual fact, that
differentiation between what youlike and what you absolutely
love, it's really powerful.
Yeah.
Because I can recognize there'sfew things that I really love,
that I can do every day.
There is loads of things that Ilike, loads of things that I
think I could do often, but if Iburden myself with the thought
(52:56):
of doing them every day, I'mlike, oh God, I don't really
love that.
And having a category or havinglike a note of these are the
things that you really love isvery helpful, actually when it
comes to carving out what's,what am I going to do with
myself?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
what is going to stimulate me?
Because you're actually gettingto understand what are you
really passionate about.
There is a complete differencein between liking something and
loving something you can getlike completely.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
You can grow out of that love that you have for a
thing that you just simply likeyeah you know, it's actually
quite interesting that a lot ofpeople are probably boring
themselves to death doing thingsthat they like.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah, and not love, and that's what, at the end of
the day, make everything,everything what they're doing
not enjoyable on the long term.
Because if you really reallydon't love it, then no matter
how enthusiastic you are aboutsomething that you're doing,
(54:05):
eventually you're going to getbored yeah, like things that you
like can get burnt out quiteeasily things that you love seem
to almost like multiply andcompound and then the things
that you love, find a way tolike, just keep multiplying and
bring you more fulfillment,because, because it's it's what
you really love, it's whatyou're really passionate about
(54:26):
yeah, it's completely differentfrom just liking it's a really
good filter on purpose.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Like a really good filter on purpose because I
think, yeah, in my experiencethere's loads of things that
I've done that I've liked, onlyto realize that I don't really
like that much, but there's veryfew things that I love, very
few things that I can do everyday.
Yeah.
And I noticed that the thingsthat I do love yeah, they expand
, Whereas the things that I likecontracts.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, they always contract, they always have an
expiration date to put itsomehow.
But then the things that youlove, love, they just keep on
growing and growing and growingandy, lovely finishing point,
thank you yeah, I'm happy toshare.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Hopefully it will help someone yeah, do you mind
me asking if somebody is tryingto reach out or to get in touch
with you, what's the best way todo that?
Um instagram I would sayinstagram or, honestly, just
sent me a text lovely, and let'sconnect well, I'm not going to
leave your mess your number inthe bottom of this podcast.
But what?
Speaker 2 (55:32):
I will do.
Is you can?
You can leave my Instagramhandle.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yes lovely Andy.
Thank you so much for sharingthank you, I've loved it.
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