The University of Life & Hania Opienski

Meet Hania, a holistic practitioner who blends Traditional Chinese Medicine, energy healing, naturopathy, and Ayurveda to help her clients build intuitive well-being and reclaim control of their health.

Hania brings a unique perspective that embraces the deep connections between mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical health, offering solutions that address root causes for lasting transformation.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that rest, lifestyle changes, and balance are vital to overcoming stress-related health challenges. 

We also dive into the influence of environment on well-being—from the frenetic energy of city life to the calming stillness of the countryside—and how factors like electromagnetic fields and urban density can impact your health.

Hania introduces us to energy frequency cards, vibrational healing, and sacred geometry, showing how these tools can transform your home into a sanctuary that nurtures your health and well-being.

If you’re seeking a deeper connection between your environment, community, and overall health, this episode will offer fresh insights and practical advice.

Support the show

If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.

I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.

Thank you for listening, Jamie x

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hania.
Can I start a little bitabruptly?
Sure, If I was to ask you whatyour kind of real bone of
contention or area offrustration with the current,
let's say, medical setup, whatwould come up for you?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I guess it's the trust in an outside entity or
individual to have the answersand to be the one that you know
fixes.
And I see that it can be verydisempowering and there's a lot
of yeah believing that yourhealth and well-being is in

(00:42):
someone else's hands and thatyou need you know.
You don't know, you don't knowwhat you're, what's going on for
you or what your body needs,and that someone else needs to
give you the answers, and whatthey say is what you should
follow, even if it doesn'tnecessarily feel completely
right, um, and I think that'sthat kind of idea of, or that uh
, system of, you know, givingyour, um, the power of your,

(01:06):
your health and your autonomy tosomeone else.
Yeah, that's disempowering.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, I remember when I was in hospital and a doctor
came in and very quickly kind oflooked me over and then
prescribed this, I was like,excuse me, and it was so
interesting the attitude in theroom was how dare you question
the doctor?
And also that the doctordoesn't have time to deal with
your questions.
He had to kind of go to thenext person.
I remember feeling like I don'twant to engage with this.

(01:33):
This doesn't feel helpful andlike with the time and attention
and the care that I got it,everything inside me was like
you've only got literally amoment of this person's
attention and he feels like he'spretty stressed.
Chances are that it wasn'tsensitive, perhaps to your needs
.
So can I ask what's yourapproach?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, I guess I really feel that, yeah, I want
to empower people to takeresponsibility for their own
healing and to really helppeople understand.
So you know, I have kind ofvarious frames of reference.
You know, I initially studiedtraditional Chinese medicine and

(02:13):
various forms of energymedicine, and then naturopathy,
which is Western naturalmedicine.
So I kind of have, you know, afew different viewpoints which
kind of give me, and alsopersonally, not in any
qualifications, but Ayurveda.
So, again, you know traditionalAsian medicine and, yeah, and I
guess that you know all ofthese, particularly the Asian
and the energy medicine.

(02:33):
But all of these systems arereally looking at how, you know,
we are multidimensional beings.
You know that there's, you know, an interaction and a
correlation between your mental,emotional, spiritual health
with your physical health.
It's not the kind of cartesianview that is like if you have a
problem with your knee, you dealwith your knee.

(02:54):
You know, in chinese medicineit's like if you have a problem
with your knee, you know youlook at, well, what's happening
with your kidneys, what'shappening with the rest of your
bones, how are you feeling?
How you know what you, you knowwhat activity are you doing?
You know it looks at.
You know not just that part ofthe body or not just the
physical body, but also you knowwhat's going on internally,
what's going on in yourenvironment and and you know and

(03:15):
chi, you know the energeticlevel, and so I feel like having
this approach that is reallylike you know, a whole person
approach and also the wholeperson in their context, is
really helpful for actually thenseeing, okay, what's out of
balance and helping that personunderstand well why this is
happening and how it's not justyou know, I'm not just going to

(03:37):
give you something for that oneparticular complaint in one
particular area, but to kind ofpull back and see the bigger
picture.
And yes, it's a bit more workfor an individual because it's
not like here's just a naturalsolution and you can keep doing
exactly what you're doing andjust take this one thing, but
actually the invitation to gowell, let's look more broadly at

(03:59):
why this is happening and whatelse is out of balance, and then
you're going to get a holisticimprovement as well.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
As you know, I want to deal with whatever the key
complaint is, but it's a verydifferent approach I kind of get
the impression, when you like,segment something, yeah, it's
very easy to say, oh well, thisis what's wrong and this is what
needs to be done.
But yeah, when you zoom out andlook at something in an
all-encompassing, holisticfashion, things get much more
complicated, things get muchmore intertwined.
So, of course, the kind ofconventional approach is here

(04:27):
let's, let's simplify this, um.
But what I'm kind of gettingthe impression from you is, yeah
, you're like look, we can dothese things simply and they'll
work to a point and then theydon't, whereas really we're
interconnected beings and youhave to look at somebody in
their totality and and althoughthat might be a little bit more
complicated.
And it might be a little bitmore complicated and it might be
a little bit slower.
Ultimately speaking, thatapproach is going to stand to

(04:49):
somebody a hell of a lot longerand better.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
And it's not necessarily slower, I mean it
can be, but it can be likesometimes, like I find like
working with energy medicine,when you, you know, by the time
something has reached thephysical body, it's had to kind
of filter through all of thesesubtle levels.
And so if you're trying tochange something at the physical
level, you're right, that isslow.
And if you're doing it slowly,like, rather than doing like a

(05:12):
you know a procedure that isgoing to, you know, physically
change something, if you'regetting someone to change their
diet or their movement or toactually make a physical change,
yes, that is going to takelonger if you do it by natural
means.
But if you're actually workingat the subtle level, sometimes
you can change something at amental or emotional level and
then that just shifts, you know,the physical just shifts

(05:35):
naturally, like you know, youclear, you know an emotional
pattern that is creating tensionin the body and so there's pain
and there's tension, and maybetension to the point that some
kind of like bones are slightlyout of alignment.
And when you actually releasethat emotional tension, the body
just naturally falls back intoalignment.
So it happens much more quicklythan if you were addressing
that with kind of physicalmanipulation which might be.

(05:57):
You know, you do it once andyou can kind of put the body
back, but then a few days laterthe body goes back to that
holding pattern because thatemotional tension is still there
, pulling those bones out ofplace again, and you have to do
a whole series of treatment overa period of time for the
muscles to change, whereas ifyou just like help that person
clear the emotion, the body justnaturally goes back into
alignment.

(06:17):
And that can happen, you know,in a session I have to say two
things.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
There's a bridging kind of phrase that you use so
often, which is you know, andit's like you're actually going
through some pretty complicatedstuff, but I love it.
But what I'm kind of gettingthe impression of is that okay.
So conventional approach isthat let's say somebody has an
ache in their body.
They'll go to a physio andthey'll barely even open up to

(06:43):
the physio.
Actually, the whole treatmentmight be borderline, silent, but
what they will say is look,I've got an ache in my knee and
the physio will go to work onthat and perhaps there's some
relief momentarily, but a coupleof days later it's back and
it's tight, whereas the kind ofprocess you're talking about is
much more engaged.
Let's say, where you're workingwith the person as a whole and

(07:04):
you're asking them hey, look,what's going on in your life,
what's coming up?
And you're looking for muchmore than, say, a particular
trauma that happened to the knee, but perhaps like what might
have them putting pressure ontheir knee, what might be out of
sync in their life that mightbe leading to that.
And yes, there might be somehands-on manipulation as part of

(07:27):
your work, but you're alsoengaging somebody to look at
themselves, observe themselvesand see what perhaps they're
doing that's working for them,and perhaps what they're doing
or engaging with them might notbe serving them.
And you're helping them almostcop on essentially a little bit
and work with themselves thatbit better, so you're engaging
with them in a much moreall-encompassing fashion.

(07:47):
Would that be fair to?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
say yeah, yeah, and I mean I think you know when I
you know work with acupuncture,which I do much less than yes,
that you know there is, like yousaid, you might do something
you know physically.
Like someone has knee pain, Iwill needle around their knee to
help with relieving theinflammation and the pain in the
area.
But I will also be lookingsystemically and doing some

(08:08):
other needles, which is for youknow the root cause, which might
be something completelydifferent than what's where you
know where it's manifestingphysically.
But I also find that I'vereally moved away a lot from the
more you know physical work.
So now when I use Chinesemedicine, it's more often to
help people understand theconnections with their sleep and

(08:29):
the way that they think andtheir digestion and what's going
on in their muscles or whateverthe sort of intersection might
be.
And using more, like I talkedabout, energy medicine, using
the subtle, helping them torelease things on an emotional,
energetic level and so the bodycan naturally come into

(08:51):
alignment.
So then I'm you know I wouldn'tbe doing any physical
manipulation, but they may havephysical changes as their body
kind of naturally finds itsalignment again can I poke back
and forth with you on thislittle sure, okay?

Speaker 1 (09:04):
so I'm a big believer that, like, our bodies talk to
us and, unfortunately, its findsits alignment again.
Can I poke back and forth withyou on this a little bit?
Sure, okay, so I'm a bigbeliever that, like, our bodies
talk to us and unfortunately,it's language is, generally
speaking, pain, yeah, and so ifwe make this practical, I'd love
to like make it practical in mysense.
My right knee has been achingfor the best part of, let's say,
eight months and I've gone toso many different healers about
it and all sorts of differentmanipulators and, my god, the

(09:25):
screams of pain that have comefrom this knee.
But more recently, what I'm kindof looking at a little little
bit more holistically and I'mrecognizing that, like, my right
hand side is my masculine sideand my right knee is, let's say,
indicative of, like, thesupport and the environment that
I'm creating for myself.
And and when I like feel intomy knee and when I think to

(09:46):
myself and I'm like what'sactually triggering this, it's
like Jamie, step up all the moreas a man, provide for yourself
better.
And it sounds a bit odd, butI'm like that's when I really
tune into myself and I feel that.
So over the last couple ofmonths I've been like right,
okay, step into, um, step intothat all the more and let's
start making more constructivedecisions in life, more

(10:09):
protective decisions in life anduh, and let's be a little bit
more ambitious.
And what I'm noticing and look,this is so much inside myself
but I'm interested to bouncethis off you what I'm noticing
is, having done so much physicalwork on this for let's say the
best part of the first fivemonths.
Almighty nothing has shifted butthat connection point, let's

(10:30):
say three months ago.
And then, like the subsequentmoves that I've been making,
little by little, this ache isgoing down so what would come up
in you in terms of what, as Ishare that like?
What would you think would thatbe like, appropriate to the
kind of philosophy and approachyou take?
Or am I just a little bitbonkers?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
No, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me.
You know, as you say, the bodygives you signs that something
is out of balance and often painis one of the you know, the
biggest things that actuallygets people to stop and take
notice.
And you know, knees in Chinesemedicine can also be about
choosing your direction.
And you know, if you're yeah,are you moving in the right
direction?

(11:08):
Are you able to move forward?
How are you moving forward?
So, you know, that kind of fitswith what you've been talking
about as well pains inparticular areas and then as
they kind of get clear on thingsthat are going on in their life
that perhaps are, you know,maybe there's, um, you know,

(11:29):
frustration or kind of likebeing not being in the right
direction, uh, and that is kindof somatizing and sort of
manifesting somewhere in thebody.
And as they kind of actuallystart really connecting with the
direction that they want to goand feeling creative and feeling
flow, and that sort ofrestriction or frustration
lessens, then that can then besomething that will certainly

(11:50):
help with releasing thosephysical symptoms would you see
this really because, but I knowto say in my work- yeah I notice
such obvious patterns play outwhen people come to me and
they're like I'm struggling inthis area in my business and I'm
like, well, it's reallyobviously this, this and this
and you can, you can kick thingsinto gear so quickly.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I'm wondering, like what are the obvious patterns
that you see so often in yourwork?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
oh, okay, um, yeah, I mean it's, I think it's, it's
quite easy in terms of, uh,seeing you know the chinese
medicine uh, interactionsbetween, like you know, a lot of
the types of people that I workwith.
You know, stress and burnout isone of the kind of key areas
that I, yeah, that you know,clients that I would see, and

(12:37):
certainly there's a kind of away of thinking and a way of
pushing oneself that then has animpact and creates certain
physical symptoms.
And so you know, when someoneis talking about you know
they're talking about certaincomplaints.
You can see, like in Chinesemedicine, stress tends to affect
kind of two of the key systemsin the body.

(12:59):
One is the earth element, whichis spleen, stomach, pancreas,
so digestion and absorption andassimilation of nutrients, and
then the other is the woodelement, which is the liver and
gall bladder, and so definitely,and the liver and gall bladder
also and the wood element, theyare in control of the sinews and

(13:21):
tendons and so people who tendto stress, that then puts them
into, you know, there's oftenthen a lot of physical tension
and particularly, like where thechannels run, like across the
sides of the neck and shoulders.
So people who have stress andyou know they're kind of, you
know, putting their wood elementout of balance.
There'll be people who will havemigraines or tension headaches

(13:42):
or one-sided headaches, and andthey'll tend to be people that
are, you know, very kind ofmaybe type A personalities or
driven, or they really pushthemselves and they kind of you
know they want to work reallyhard and then you know they work
hard but then they hold a lotof tension.
And so you're kind of seeing thecorrelation.
Or the other type of people whoare working really hard but

(14:02):
they tend to kind of overthinkand kind of go over.
You know they can't necessarily.
They stress, they worry, theydon't digest their thoughts and
their emotions, and then theywill probably have, you know,
bloating and digestive issues,maybe IBS, alongside their
stress.
And so you're kind of seeingthe correlation with the sort of
Chinese medicine patterns andthe way that they're thinking

(14:24):
and applying themselves in theirwork and then how that's
physically manifesting.
And then I can see, okay, well,if I know those things are
happening, they're probablygoing to have these other
symptoms that are signs of thisearth imbalance or this wood
imbalance.
And so I'll say, oh, do yousleep like this or do you have
these other symptoms andgenerally there will be those
correlations.
And so then you kind of educatepeople okay, well, these are

(14:46):
foods or habits that are gonnamake this pattern worse and
these are foods and habits thatare actually gonna reduce that.
Or these are signs and symptomsthat can tell you, oh, I'm
overdoing it.
Because people will tend tohave an area of weakness.
And so it's like if it is thatyou know the earth element, so
they know when they're workingtoo hard or they're too stressed
, they're going to start gettingsort of bloating and digestive

(15:09):
issues.
They're going to have sugarcravings.
And so you know you say to themlook, if you know that you have
like a really challenging periodin work, you know this is the
time when you need to reallytake time to sit down to eat and
, like you know, eat regularly,don't overdo the sugar.
You know, take time to sit downto eat and, like you know, eat
regularly, don't overdo thesugar.
You know those things that aregoing to support, you know their
earth element.
So they can then go ah, I cansee, you know this is how I can

(15:31):
support myself, or these are thesigns that I'm going into, that
you know my system's just goingto kind of crash if I keep
along this path.
So does that answer?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well you've actually you've just opened up such a
world of curiosity for mebecause I think my journey of
burnout I can understand quite alot now.
So I used to run lots ofnightclubs and at the same time
simultaneously a youth-focusedmarketing agency.
So one business kind of ranfrom 9 am to about 8 pm and the

(16:03):
other one ran from about 10 amto 4 or 5 pm Sorry, 4 or 5 am,
it was bonkers hours.
We did really well for acertain amount of time, but
after a while it was quitealmost a comedy show, if I can
reflect back and observe myself.

(16:24):
But I noticed almost I canreflect back and observe myself,
but I noticed almost, um, likeI pretty much got chronic
diarrhea.
I, whatever I eat, ate camestraight out of me and obviously
then my energy started toreally go and I thought it was
food sensitivities.
So I started going so like, sotight on my diet and like like,

(16:48):
going like crazy, like I'm gonnaeat the healthiest foods and
I'm gonna eat green juices andlike salads and all of this and
actually that made it worse.
Symptoms got worse and and then, interestingly enough, like
when you talked aboutgallbladder, I recognize that
when your gallbladder is out ofsync you become indecisive

(17:09):
exactly and when your liver isout of sorts, all sort of
allergies come up.
So I never suffered allergiesand suddenly I was getting all
these allergies and I was,generally speaking, pretty
decisive.
But then I was struggling overlike jesus it'll take me 40
minutes to figure out where I gofor lunch, to the point that
lunch time was over and no lunch, like bonkers, yeah.
And then, as my gut got worse,I was amazed that, like my

(17:33):
short-term memory kind of went,and here's the thing that I
think is so fascinating.
So I went on this mad buzz oflike go to every doctor I could
find, do every diet I could find, and in actual fact, what I
recognized is that pretty mucheverything I was doing was
making it worse and the veryobvious thing that I should have
done is just taking a holiday.

(17:55):
But in actual fact, what I,what a lot of what I was doing
was just coping mechanisms for,like, jay, you're doing way too
much work and you've no resttime in any of this.
Like you need to reorientateyour life.
Nobody said that to me, wow.
And and I wrestled on my dietand wrestled on with all these

(18:16):
like like a supplement cupboardthat was like two suitcases full
of stuff and spending fortunesand and it all actually went
away pretty much around COVIDwhen you were forced to stop
forced to stop, yeah, yeah,forced to stop.
And and what we I was, I was, Iwas.

(18:38):
I was in the company ofsomebody that was fantastic in
terms of just making me laugh,and I remember I was like, like,
because COVID allowed for justtaking time off, I remember
sitting having a burger, whichI'd never eat a burger, like
never eat a burger, never eat abun, never eat the grease and
anything like that.
And I was having the burger,laughing my ass off and I was

(18:58):
like, oh my god, I don't have myallergies.
I actually, like, can hold foodin.
I don't feel bloated.
And it was quite incredible forme because I think most people
go to when there is an ailmentis their diet, and there's so
much emphasis put on diet but inactual fact, the biggest one
for me was my environment andthe work.
And I'm curious just why, likeit's almost like a don't go

(19:22):
there subject when it comes toburnout, like everybody's
feeling the symptoms but nobodywants to say, just take a
holiday, take a big break orperhaps consider a different
career.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you know that's something
that I certainly have had tokind of support people with is
like recognizing you know, youagain, I, you know, I don't want
to take it's not my, I don'tbelieve that it's my role to
sort of say you're in the wrongjob, you need to change, but to

(19:51):
actually help them, help someonerecognize the impact of the job
that they're in and thelifestyle choice and the style
that they work in, and then youknow if they can actually see,
okay, well, doing things the waythat I've been doing them is,
you know these are the causativefactors for my state of health.
And then you know, once youunderstand that, then you know
you have a choice and it's likewell, can I actually adapt how I
am working, you know, in thesame role, in the same context,

(20:15):
or is it that actually I realizethat my health is not
sustainable to continue workingin this way?
And then you have to decide,okay, but it's like it's kind of
helping people recognize inthis way.
And then you have to decide,okay, but it's like it's kind of
helping people recognize, andthen they can make that choice
of like, okay, do I do?
They want my support to makechanges that are going to
support them, to actually do,you know, this job, this career,
whatever it is, whilst actuallybeing more conscious of the

(20:39):
impact on their body and maybehaving better boundaries or
changing you know theirlifestyle habits.
And yes, sometimes there is aneed to change dietary stuff,
but it's you know, it's moreabout how you eat and how you
absorb and how you know whatyou're doing while you're eating
, Like are you rushing, are youthinking, are you busy, are you
working or are you actuallyallowing your body to kind of go

(20:59):
into parasympathetic rest anddigest state so that you can
actually be absorbing whatyou're eating or recognizing if
you're eating something thatdoesn't agree with you?

Speaker 1 (21:07):
so yeah, so the thing that's coming.
I'm like I think food just getsway too much focus and
attention.
And here's my thing right,you're london-based, right so if
I spend a week in london, dayone and two I notice nothing,
but by day seven I'm notsleeping at night I'm highly

(21:29):
irritable, highly anxious.
Allergies are like crazy andany like stomach upsets or
stomach issues.
They're all kicking back andeverything like that.
And then when I just pullmyself out of London and say go
to the countryside, everything'sback again.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Now in London.
What might prolong it is like,say, a sensitivity of diet and
if I do yoga, so like these willjust about give me a bit of
breathing space, but if I staytwo weeks they don't, Whereas if
I go to the countryside I don'tneed any of that.
I can eat trash, and that'svery striking for me and I'm

(22:09):
like, I'm curious of like, yeah,what your perspective is in
terms of like environment.
I think it's the biggest of thelot.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, I think it's huge and I think it's something
that people don't really giveenough weight to.
And you, you know I wasthinking about you talking about
when you go to London, and Icertainly know that for myself
and luckily I live in a kind ofleafy suburb that's kind of
quiet and not too busy and nottoo city, so it's manageable.
I don't think I could live incentral London and even that

(22:39):
sometimes, you know, can be toomuch.
So I do a lot with my homeenvironment to kind of create a
supportive space.
Yeah, but yeah, there's so manyfactors.
It's like you know there's a lotof electromagnetic and
geopathic stress and you knowthe sort of intensity and
concentration of, like beingaround so many different devices

(23:02):
and machines and smart metersand you know 4G, 5g, whatever.
You know that actually has ahuge impact on the physical body
, whereas when you're in a morenatural environment, you know
you're then able to actually bein, you know, in resonance with
the earth or with you know, likewhy it's so relaxing being
around water.
It's like you know the frequencythat the human body normally

(23:24):
vibrates at and that of you knowthe earth or water is very
similar, whereas most of youknow, electrical equipment is
something like, you know, sortof four or five times higher,
and so that means there's a realmismatch.
When you're in a kind of, youknow, a man-made, artificial
environment that it's like itliterally is jarring to your
system and that then can affectyour immune system and you know,

(23:46):
and that's going to affect, um,you know, and also that kind of
jarring to the nervous system,of course that affects your
sleep.
So it's like this is all kindof happening in the background
and then you have, um, you know,there's also evidence of how
the impact of like what you know, you see, how that affects your
brain.
And so when we see fractalswhich are like when you look up

(24:07):
through, you know, a tree canopyand you have all these kind of
crisscrossy, you know, and thatjust feels relaxing, it's like
that is relaxing to your brain,you know.
Or when you see curves, like, ifyou think about, in nature
there's not really so manystraight lines, most things are
kind of curvy, yeah and you, youknow, and there's also, you
know, natural colours, like youknow, greens and yellows, and
it's, you know it's verydifferent to the visual field,

(24:30):
whereas when you're in aman-made environment you have,
you know, straight lines, youhave boxes, and there's also
generally sort of neutralcolours, or there's greys or
there's whites, and you know,and you have artificial light
which, again, that impacts thebrain and changes how
stimulating which parts of thebrain is stimulated, whereas
natural light and the yellowlight and the changing of early

(24:52):
morning low level light, whenthat hits the eye from low level
, versus when you have lightfrom above, that impacts the
brain and which hormones youmake and so that impacts your
sleep.
So there's, like so many factors, air quality, pollution, and
then other people, the densityof people and, like you're
saying, in London it has adifferent pace.

(25:13):
People are stressed, people arerushing, they're busy, they're,
you know they're short tempered, you know you're in their way,
they're trying to get somewhere,whereas in the countryside
there isn't that density ofpeople and people are more
relaxed.
People are more likely to sayhi if they walk by, rather than
just wish that you weren't intheir way, like they might in a
city, and all of that has animpact on our nervous systems,

(25:36):
on our immune system, on alldifferent levels.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, I find country, country, living for all those
stimulating kind of areas thatyou've noted, it charges you up,
it fills you up energeticallyand I find in those environments
I make much better decisionsfor myself.
I operate at just a wholedifferent caliber, whereas when
I'm in cities and again likeyeah, that close proximity, that

(26:01):
density, that unstimulatingthat close proximity, that
density, that unstimulating,let's say, that toxicness of
pollution and not just theobvious, of exhaust but Wi-Fi,
for me it's a lot, it drains meand I find that it almost puts
this, let's say this panic orthis stress into me and I find
myself doing really stupidthings and I know if I told this

(26:23):
to myself 10 years ago, myself10 years ago, would have
probably like slapped me in theface and give me a wedgie and be
like Jay, what's wrong with youhere?
But I I'm always reminded ofthat kind of saying that you
don't know what you don't know.
And I really I remember thetrigger point again was in COVID
, when all the buildings stoppedand all the commuting stopped

(26:43):
and there was silence in the air.
Like I, when I'm in living indublin, I have a home in the
city center and in covid therewas this unbelievable silence.
And then there was birds andthere was such clean air,
there's such quiet and calmthroughout.
But I remember experiencingthat and I think that was a huge

(27:05):
contributing factor to just anyailments that I had going.
But then in Ireland they werelike we'll give permission for
the builders to come back againand it was at that moment that
the building came in.
I was like oof, I need to go,and I haven't been able to
settle in that same environmentsince.
Hence the idea of like youdon't know what you don't know,
and actually environment since.
Hence the idea of like you don'tknow what you don't know, yeah,

(27:25):
and actually I think we ashumans were unbelievable at
reorientating ourselves, to beresilient, to put up with
stressors yeah but what I findis that, like if so much of my
energy is focused on, let's say,putting up with those stressors
, that's not there to help melook after myself, to help me
make better decisions, to helpme grow and expand it's it's

(27:46):
taken up by just putting up withthe environment and I think
unfortunately, speaking for somany, I believe that so much of
the potential is unfortunatelybeing wasted just putting up
with their environment, ratherthan actually being fueled by
their environment and all thatenergy getting to go to their

(28:07):
creativity or to their peace ofmind.
That's my kind of projection or,sorry, my kind of belief.
But how does that kind ofresonate with yourself?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, definitely, and I mean you know you can explain
some of that actually on aphysiological level, like you
know if, when you are in thatstate of stress that you talked
about, you know that actually,you know changes.
You know we have the autonomicnervous system, which is most
people are more familiar with.
You know fight or flight andthen like rest and digest, so

(28:35):
sympathetic, parasympatheticnervous system, and when you're,
you know the sympatheticnervous system is dominant.
That's the fight or flight.
Then actually what that meansis that you know you're actually
getting.
You know your executivefunctioning part of the brain
actually doesn't get blood to it.
So it's like you know yourcapacity to make good decisions,
your capacity to have, you know, creative thinking is literally

(28:55):
, you know, slowed, I meanalmost completely stopped,
because all of your energy, youknow your nervous system, is in
your muscles.
It's like ready for either Ineed to fight or run away.
You know this is not the timeto be kind of like creating a
beautiful piece of art or youknow this is like I'm going to
be reactive and it's like a lotof people are, you know, learn
how to function in that, but itis like it's much harder to make

(29:18):
decisions.
It's much harder to workbecause you're having to push
through this.
You know physiological.
You know physiological, youknow your brain is firing,
saying, you know I'm unsafe, andso when you're in that state,
yeah, you are having to put alot of energy to then actually
trying to be creative orproductive, because that's not
what your nervous system istrying to tell you to do.
And so you know that.

(29:39):
And those you know stresses.
Historically it was designedthat you know this was going to
be.
If you, you know smelt, a wildanimal, or you know fire, or
there was, you know somethingthat was a real threat to life.
But now you know our nervoussystem hasn't actually evolved
that much.
So if you have, you know, yourphone reminders pinging, or you
have an inbox full of thingsthat you haven't answered, or

(30:00):
you have that sound of thebuilders next door, you know all
of these things are things thatare actually going to trigger
that stress response, and soyour body doesn't recognize the
difference going to trigger thatstress response and so your
body doesn't recognize thedifference, and it's with your
accent.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
I just think to myself the event.
I think it's every day that Iroam around in London.
One it's the sirens and twoit's the fighting Poor, poor
cyclists in London.
I think every day I go out intothe streets of London I see a
cyclist getting beaten up.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Oh my God.
I know there's a lot of roadrage in London, but thankfully I
haven't seen it to that level,yeah but it's yeah OK so.
So you know there is aphysiological factor that that
is actually impacting your body.
And now you know when you're.
You know what happens at thesort of full end of that fight
or flight is that then people gointo freeze, like you see it in
animal documentaries, like youknow, when the gazelle is caught

(30:47):
by the lion and they, like theyplay dead and then the lion
leaves them and then they leapup and run away.
But it's like you know that end, that freeze is something that
people can go into.
But now a lot of people areactually living in what they
call functional freeze.
So it's like your whole nervoussystem is just kind of on
complete shutdown but yet youare forcing yourself to get on

(31:08):
and go to work and deal withstuff and it is, it's completely
exhausting to your system sothat's the funny one for me,
because I I know again if I wentback to myself 10 years ago and
I heard this.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
I would have been like come on.
And I would have alsorecognized like oh, I'm tired I
don't have.
I don't have time to belistening to this nonsense and
and I would have been like, oh,that's such such this nonsense.
And I would have been like, oh,that's such airy-fairy talk.
I would have been like I wouldhave actually prided myself in
terms of how I can get on withit, how I can get myself up

(31:40):
early, how we can get by on amediocre diet, how I can work so
hard and how I can handle somuch stress and how I can handle
so much stress.
But unfortunately, I couldnever see beyond that of like,
yeah, jamie, you can do this inthis environment and you can do
so well.
Think of what you could do in anenvironment that was a better
complement to you.

(32:00):
And that's something that,let's say, I reflect back on and
I go I wish I would have lovedto have seen how I would do.
Let's say, in the environmentthat I'm in now with that, let's
say, youth and energy, ratherthan, let's say, suffering
through things and getting onwith things.
Again, that's something that Ithink instinctively, so many of
us just want to put our headsdown and get on with things,

(32:21):
rather than looking a little bitbeyond the curve and perhaps
saying, hey, look, we couldreorientate and we'd be a hell
of a lot better off, but Isuppose some of someone's
perhaps trapped in that cyclethat what did you describe it as
freeze uh, yeah, so freeze andfight, fight, flight and then
freeze, and people are infunctional freeze.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
So it's like when their body really would just
like to, you know, play dead,but they're forcing themselves.
You know they're in that real,you know nervous system,
shutdown state and yet pushingthrough.
So can I?

Speaker 1 (32:52):
ask you then, because what I would have, I would have
.
Uh, I would probably have beena bit denial.
Uh, I'm sorry, I would havedenied if I was in a burnout
state do you want me asking,like I imagine you almost have
it, like you could almost takeit off a list what are, like the
five or six signs where youjust concretely can be like, oh,
that person's burnt out.
If they are this, this, this,this, what comes?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
up for you.
Okay.
Well, yeah, I mean definitely,you know fatigue.
So that is, you know, a levelof tiredness that isn't related
to, you know, output.
You know you're just, you havefatigue.
You know you wake up in themorning and you're fatigued.
You wake up and you know sleepdoesn't feel like you don't feel

(33:36):
refreshed after sleep, you justfeel exhausted and that's kind
of a general state.
Um, I'd say that's a kind ofreally key.
Um, definitely, uh, most people, yeah, when they're out, there
will be a level of kind of likeemotional fatigue, you know so,
like having no capacity to dealwith.
Like you know, you have acertain number of tasks to do

(33:57):
and then something another thingcomes in, or like there's an
unexpected challenge and youknow you just either in floods
of tears or just angry with thatperson and irritated, and you
just can't handle anythingunexpected or anything extra.
There's just no capacity, noempathy, you know, or no kind of
resilience.
It's just you could justcrumble.
So I'm hearing like a kind offatigue, I'm hearing like an

(34:18):
emotional volatility, but also anumbness as well like you can't
really feel too much yeah, ohyeah, you can't feel too much,
or you just don't have any extraemotional energy to give to
anyone else.
Or, you know, like I know, I gotburnt out, you know, a number
of years ago, ironically workingin a wellness resort, and you

(34:38):
know, and you get empathyfatigue, like you know, because
my mom was a psychotherapist andI remember, like, talking to
her about it and she was like,yeah, you have empathy fatigue
and I was like, huh, is that athing?
But you know, it's like you getto that point where you've been
in this case for me, you knowlooking after other people so
much, so much, and then you getto the point where you're just
like, oh god, you know, peopleare just complaining to me, can
they not?
Just, you know, I just stoppedbeing able to actually be

(35:01):
empathetic for them.
I was just like it's just toomuch.
Can you just like, you know,sort yourself out?
And I was, you know, and I waslike, oh my God, this is not how
I want to be with my clients orto feel.
This is a little bit confronting.
I mean that can be when you getto that point of, yes, this

(35:22):
emotional volatility or justlack of capacity to be
empathetic.
A lot of people it willgenerally impact sleep or
digestion.
So again, it's going to dependon the individual.
A lot of people will have both,but there will be, yeah, either
just a level of you know oftenit's called like tired but wired

(35:46):
, you know of just like notbeing able to switch off and
there's just this kind of likelevel of you know feeling you
know adrenalized, you know likeoverly stimulated and exhausted
but not able to switch off, andthat can be very common the ones
that are coming up on my set.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
That I'd love you to be like.
Correct or wrong is like um, anindecisive starts starts to
kick in and inefficient and worktasks that were generally quite
easy start just taking more andmore time and feeling more
challenging to do um, yeah,those are the kind of the two
big ones, yeah I was going tosay that and that's that's like.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
the next stage is like, yeah, when you've got to
that point of just you knowyou're just not mentally
functioning at a level that is,uh, yeah, that you can make the
decisions or that you can dotasks that, as you say, should
be easy, so that's certainlysomething that people find that
things just are much harder,take much longer, take much more
effort to do that you knowshould have been, yeah, or used

(36:42):
to be easy.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
And here's the like, the wobbly one, that I'm quite
curious on.
So my auntie's a naturopathicdoctor a fantastic naturopathic
doctor, so much so I actuallyflew over to live with her for a
few days and just picked herbrain for 12 hours a day solidly
.
And one of her kind of realpoints that she made is look,

(37:04):
you know, allergies are going toreally start flaring up when
your immune system is knockedand it's a real signal to slow
down.
It's a real signal to lookafter yourself, so allergies
aren't necessarily chronic theycan be highly indicative of
where you're at, and sheassociated a lot of them to me
at that time in terms of burnout.
She was like look, if you're, ifyou're burning burning things a

(37:26):
little bit too much yourallergies are going to start
coming up and up and up and up.
Is that just an individualthing, or would that be quite
universal, would you feel?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
I think it's this thing of like.
It depends like where you knowwhat your constitution is and
like what your area of weaknessis.
And if your area of weakness isthe digestive system, when you
are run down, that's going to bethe area that is going to, you
know, trigger your symptoms andcertainly you certainly chronic
stress over a period of time,burnout most people will have

(37:55):
some level of well, you get alot of inflammation in the body
and that is going to have animpact on, definitely, the
immune system and generally thedigestive system.
But different people will haveslightly different areas of
weakness and so for you willhave slightly different areas of
weakness and so for you, youknow, maybe digestion, maybe you
have you know bit of, you know,an earth constitution, and so

(38:15):
for you, when you're reallyoverdoing it, then your
digestive system is going to bethe area where you will see
symptoms and there are lots ofpeople who will see that and
it's certainly one of the keystress related patterns that a
lot of people you know, peoplewho aren't an earth constitution
will get to that point if theyreally push it for long enough.
But it might be that someonewho's a different type would get

(38:37):
other symptoms first, becausethat's their area of weakness my
.
My symptoms that come up arelike itchy roof of the mouth, uh
, runny nose, itchy eyes yeah umand and then sneezing and like
it's yeah, so those are all theyeah, they're like you know,
high histamine allergicresponses.

(38:58):
Your body is just becomingoversensitive, um to you know
things in your environmentbecause, uh, often what happens
is when you know, when you're um, you know you're overstressed
and your digestive system isn'tworking so well, you get
something called leaky gut,which means that then, because
of the irritation in the gut,normally you have these things
called tight junctions betweenthe cells and the gut lining and

(39:19):
they don't let any biggerparticles through.
But when there's a lot ofinflammation, which is
exacerbated by stress, then youstart getting these tight
junctionsctions start gettingslightly less tight, and so then
bigger particles will gothrough and then you will
develop food sensitivities,allergies to things, because
things are getting into yourbloodstream and your immune
system's going oh no, these, youknow, these are things that we

(39:41):
don't want here.
So then they start creatingresponses to them.
And that's because you know,like you said, it's this whole
kind of cycle and then yeah,once you actually reduce the
stress and you heal.
You know, like you said, it'sthis whole kind of cycle and
then yeah, once you actuallyreduce the stress and you heal,
you know that naturally healsyour gut.
Then your body stops, yourimmune system stops like
responding to these things andthen those allergenic symptoms
will reduce.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
So this is the one thing I love.
I don't mean to pull us off,course, but allergies aren't
there to stay.
You can heal them, oh yeahcompletely.
This is something that I alwaysthought like oh, you have an
energy, you have it for life.
It's like no, no, no, no, no,you can work with them.
Okay, I kind of it's liketicked the box in terms of
clarity and burnout andoverwhelm.

(40:20):
Can I ask you, if somebody'slike, oh shit, I kind of tick
all the boxes there, what islike the because, when I kind of
think of burnout in terms ofaddressing it, it's like right
you need to slow down.
You need to.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
You need to make some really good decisions that
clear up your field and allowyou calm yourself right right
down but my instinctive feelingaround it is that it's a lengthy
process yeah, I mean it dependswhen you catch it, because
certainly you know these thingsare all on a.
It's not like you're fine andthen suddenly you have all of
these.
So it's like if someone actuallystarts, you know, noticing that

(40:55):
you know they're finding itharder to do simple tasks, that
they're getting more irritablewith people, that they're
feeling wired and tired, youknow, so they're getting
slightly more sensitivedigestion, you know.
Then it might be that you're inthe process of moving towards
burnout, but if you catch it,then you know you can maybe

(41:16):
backpedal while still doing whatyou're doing and just start
making better choices.
And you know about your timeand about you know setting
yourself up for sleep and howyou're eating, and you know
while you're under stress orreducing, you know the impact of
uh, or you know choosing howyou exercise or um.
You know using things toactually support your.

(41:37):
You know your home spaceenergetically or making sure
that you know your exercise isnot in a gym under artificial
lights doing high intensity, butactually going for a walk in a
park or you know having a liedown in the sun.
You know things like that soyou can actually start, whereas
if someone has got to that pointwhere it's like, you know, end
point, everything, then, yeah,probably they're actually going

(41:58):
to need to take a break andactually fully let the body,
just, you know, rest for a while.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
This is really interesting, sorry.
So what I'm hearing is thatthere's actually there's
hundreds of different littletweaks that you can make.
There's actually hundreds ofdifferent little tweaks that you
can make.
Like, if I remember back tothat period, I was very into
biohacking and Tim Ferriss andlike owning my mornings, and I
remember my morning routine waslike 20 steps, and like I'm
thinking, yeah, jay, if youactually only just stopped

(42:24):
setting your alarm clock, sleptin a little bit and perhaps just
went for a nice walk in thenearby park in the mornings,
that probably would have servedyou better than the 20 tasks
that you burdened yourself with.
Um, I, I, I definitely feel thatalso we have this, and it's
particularly in people with alot of capacity is that we?

(42:46):
We end up, let's say, holdingthings, things in our field, so
if we don't have the capacity,we're forced to make a decision,
but if we have a high capacity,we can hold off on making
decisions in a number ofdifferent areas, but all of them
.
It's like holding a level ofstress and at a certain point
it's like the straw that breaksthe camel's back, and so I kind
of find that if you're're tryingto rewrite or, sorry, reroute

(43:10):
somebody out of burnout very,very quickly.
It's one.
It's like what are all theseburdens that you're putting on
yourself that perhaps you thinkare for good natural fact,
taking them off your shoulderscould be really good, but then
what are all these decisionsthat you've been holding off on?
If we could make some reallygood decisions in your life
right now, that might take anenormous burden of stress and
weight out of your life too.
Um, is there anything elsethat's kind of popping up, or do

(43:32):
those two kind of feel right?

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, that definitely does, and I'm just thinking
back to like when I worked in awellness resort in Thailand and
a lot of the programs that wedid there were stress and
burnout programs and a lot ofthe time what I was having to
explain to people why andhopefully gently encourage them
was actually to do less exerciseor to change the type of
exercise.
Because often what happens iswhen you are kind of used to

(43:56):
working, like you say, you havea lot of capacity and you're a
real, you know a doer and youhave lots of ideas and you, you
know you work hard, then theretends to be like more of an
attraction towards highintensity exercise because that
feel, you know you get theendorphins, you feel like you're
releasing stress, but you know,actually by doing that, of
course that is fatiguing thebody further, is creating more
inflammation and also, in termsof Chinese medicine, it's also

(44:19):
really, you know, it's kind oftriggering that we talked about
the wood element, so that's likeliver energy, and liver energy
is about, like you said,decision making and sort of
leadership and, like you know,getting things done, and so
there is a desire when you're inthat state to just do more of
that.
But that can be like animbalance.
So then doing exercise, it'svery linear and very hard and

(44:41):
very fast and it's like, youknow, strong People really feel
like, well, that feels reallygood.
I've had a really stressful day.
I want to go and run or I wantto go, and you know, box or
whatever, but actually that isactually creating more fatigue,
creating using up more of yourresources, creating more
inflammation.
You have to say to these peopleactually it would be better if
you went for a swim or you didsome yoga or you did some dance,

(45:03):
you went for a walk in the park, and they don't necessarily
want to hear it, but actuallythat is going to be more
nourishing to their system andhelp the nervous system to
regulate.
So actually telling people toexercise less or differently was
a big thing that I was havingto educate people about.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Yeah, I read somewhere recently that dancing
is one of the most effectivecures with regards to ridding
the body of stress disease,depression.
The actual fact.
If you're looking to rewritesomebody's state dancing is it?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
And great for brain, for reducing neurodegeneration
as well, Because you're doingcross-pattern movement, you're
having to be creative and thatreally helps the brain as well.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
I find my go-to is quite odd now.
When I notice burnout symptomscoming on, I'm like, okay, I'm
going to clear my evening.
I'm going to order a reallybold takeaway.
I'm going to get loads of likesnacks and sweets that I'd
rarely eat, that one would thinklike those foods are bad, but
they're comfort foods and theylike the night in and the cozy

(46:09):
night in and perhaps they likethe movie.
That's pretty crap but prettygood at the same time, like
harry potter.
What I find is like the snacks,the takeaway, that, the comfort
of that, yeah, and knocks meinto this, like, let's say,
almost food induced coma, likesleep, but then the next day

(46:30):
killing off all the like, theexercise and the things that
normally speaking, when I'mright, are really, really good
but in that those states are toostressful for me yeah
and then just clearing myschedule and not actually
knowing what I'm going to do,but just perhaps hopping on my
bike and just seeing where I endup, seems to be really, really

(46:50):
helpful.
And I notice now like, if I cancatch burnout coming on, I can
almost rewrite it and havemyself feeling right in a day or
two, whereas if I go back acouple of years, that would have
taken me out for a couple ofmonths and also as well.
The things that I lean on arethe very things that I thought
were actually the triggers forit, like the bad food perhaps
not looking after myself and thewellness, like doing the

(47:12):
exercises and all of this.
So it's it's quite interestingfor me, anyway, how I've learned
that sometimes the bad thingsare actually good, but it's all
about how you use them and theirtiming and their application
and also your beliefs about themand how you feel about them.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Like, like you know, it's like you can be.
You know, if you're eatingquote unquote bad food and
you're stressing about it andyou're thinking, you know,
feeling guilty, or you're youknow, then yeah, that's probably
not going to have a good impacton your body.
But if, like you're saying, youknow this is something that is
going to be nourishing for meand this is me treating myself
and you know there's realenjoyment and there's relaxation

(47:49):
, then you know that is changingyour state and that allows your
body to actually absorb things,because you're going into that
rest and digest state.
You're going, you know you'reallowing your body to create,
you know, hormones that aregoing to give you pleasure and
relaxation.
You're then going to have abetter you know better night's
sleep, you know.
So, even though, yes, maybe someof those foods aren't ideal in

(48:10):
that context, you are actuallybecause your belief about it and
the state that you're puttingyourself in, your body is going
to be able to digest that andyou're going to feel better from
it.
So you know that state and youknow, maybe these are things
that are needed for you tocreate that state, but it is
also possible to actually createthat state, not necessarily

(48:31):
with all of those things, andactually that state shift
changes your nervous system,changes your hormone production,
kind of allows your body to gointo that pleasure, relaxation,
rest state and you know you can.
Certainly there's a time and aplace for comfort eating and you
know, a cheesy movie andwhatever.
But there are also things thatyou can do, if you don't want to

(48:53):
feel like I need to do thewhole hog, that can actually
create that state and get thosebenefits too.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, you've mentioned something subtly of
the course of this chat, whichis that your home space.
I remember talking to somebodyand they said, jamie, your home
space should be like a charger,you know, like think of yourself
as the phone go again to theworld and when you come home,
think of yourself pluggingyourself in.
Yeah, and for whatever space youhave if you can do little

(49:20):
things that just make it, makeit all the more relaxing for you
, and that is so important.
So to think of your home spaceas what, what are the little
things that you could do to justbring about this feeling of
relaxation, peace and ease andI'm curious, like I really want
to ask you with all the head,with the head on the shoulders
that you have, how have youarranged your home to complement

(49:41):
, let's say this, like thissanctuary that you talked about
in?

Speaker 2 (49:44):
the middle of.
Yeah well, you know there'slots of things.
I mean know, one of the thingsthat I work with is vortex
technology, which are energyfrequency cards, and they you
can use them on the body andthey kind of then put healing
frequencies into your you know,your electromagnetic field,
which have an impact on the body.
But you can also put them on ahome space and then you put them

(50:06):
on the door.
It's like feng shui.
That's where the energy entersthe house and circulates through
.
There's a pattern of energythat runs through the house
which is called the bagua, whichis like a figure of eight, and
it comes through the front doorand travels through the house,
and so you can put these energyfrequency cards on the doorframe
, and so then that means that asenergy enters the house, these
frequencies are put into thespace, and so that's something.

(50:31):
I have particular cards on thehouse that actually balance the
energy of the house.
And then there's other cardsthat you can put on the, the
router, which actually thenmitigate the negative effects of
the wi-fi, so that again that'schanging, you know, the
energetic state of the house.
So that's something that's beenon my house for years and that
you know, people kind of comeinto the house and I was like,
oh, your house always feels sonice, oh, it feels so relaxed,
or oh, you know, wouldn't thinkyou're in London, and part of

(50:53):
that, I'm sure, is that just theenergetic field of the house is
different and is moreharmonized.
Then I've changed the lighting,so you know.
So we have lights that willhave, you know, true daylight,
blue light during the day, butthen you can set them to orange
light for the evening and thenred light for nighttime.
So again, that's mimicking.

(51:14):
You know what you would have inthe natural setting if you were
going to be around you know,like you know you'd have the
cycle of the day and then in theevening you would just have
fire light.
And so you know, our brains arewired for if there's blue light
we think it's daytime, andthat's why screens et cetera are
things that can, you know,overstimulate and interrupt your
melatonin production.

(51:35):
And so, again, so I have likeblue blockers on all of my
screens so that if I am workingin the evening or watching
something, you know that bluelight is blocked, so that it
isn't, then you know, sort oftelling my brain it's daytime
and interrupting my sleep.
Then you know sort of tellingmy brain it's daytime and not
interrupting my sleep.
And then you know the coloursand like natural fibres that you
have in the house.
We talked about the impact ofstraight lines and boxes and how

(52:01):
that's kind of taxing to thenervous system, whereas actually
having you know soft furnishingand plants and art in the house
actually that you know thatchanges how the brain perceives
your sense of beauty and comfortand relaxation and more sort of
natural setting.
So that's certainly somethingthat is you know kind of part of
how how the house is um so thisis so nice.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
There's a.
There's a couple of things thatcome to mind that I'd love to
run by you as well, because Ifind I've spent a lot of time at
different airbnbs over the lastfew years.
Yeah, and one thing for me iscleaning products oh yeah, like
so for me um minimal or ifnecessary.
Organic, uh, bio-friendlycleaning products make such an
enormous difference and fabrics,especially with regards to bed

(52:41):
sheets, but actually as well theclothes that I wear.
I noticed there are some clothesnow and this might sound so
bonkers, but like I used to wear, I used to like little lemon
gear.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
And what I now believe is that those fabrics
make me feel stressed anddepressed.
And now a lot of the clothesthat I'm wearing are linen based
and when I put them on I feellight and free, and I've kind of
mirrored this over to my homespace as well.
The fabrics within the home, Ithink, are huge yeah, that's so

(53:14):
true cleaning products, fabricsyou mentioned planting so
obvious but makes such adifference can I ask you about
the frequency cards, because thefrequency cards are like edgy
for me yeah fair enough on myopenness, but what I definitely
recognize and this goes back tomy time working in hospitality

(53:35):
like the impact of sound andfrequency.
So I remember meeting a reallygood sound engineer that worked
with different restaurants andhe said Jamie, this is fantastic
.
If we put this kind of music onin the background, people will
relax and, generally speaking,we'll stay and eat a little bit
longer.
But if the restaurant is busyand we need to turn the tables
around quicker, we'll raise thebeat and raise the tempo of the

(53:57):
music and what you'll find isthat people will just
instinctively want to leave andget going, in which case we can
turn the tables around yeah andin the clubbing side of things,
what I realized is there'sobviously different types of
music.
There's like, let's say, a moredance side of music that will
have people getting quiteboisterous and pumping, and then
there's like hip-hop and R&Bthat will have people grooving

(54:18):
and twisting and turning andreally create a much more
sexualized environment.
And I mean it was an amazingconversation in terms of just
the power of music.
So for me, in my home space,I'm really conscious of, like, I
really like light, calming,relaxing music, generally
speaking, without any um lyrics,and that I find huge.
I recognize sorry, I canrecognize that, but when you're

(54:43):
talking about the frequency thatan image omits, that I'm
finding a little bit challenging.
So is that to say that, like,when I look at something, it
sends a message into my brain?
So if I see a beautiful image,I like I interpret that.
But there are certain, say,symbols that when I see that
symbol, it instinctively almostprojects, let's say, a relaxing

(55:07):
vibe into me, versus if I saw adifferent symbol, it would
perhaps induce fear or perhapsinduce… God knows what else.
Sorry, it's so clear that Idon't understand this.
Can you please help meunderstand?

Speaker 2 (55:21):
this.
Yeah, well, I think we're goingto be talking about you know a
couple of different things, but,yes, certainly there are.
You know there's differenttheories about how you know what
we see and shapes andstructures and how that impacts
the brain.
Like I mentioned fractals, andyou know there's kind of
research on the.
You know what happens in thebrain when you look at fractals,

(55:43):
which are these kind of likebroken lines and you know sort
of crisscrossing shapes, versuswhen you look at kind of you
know sort of squares, and theyfind that you know it stimulates
the brain in different ways andfractals are more relaxing and
they actually, you know,encourage the brain, you know,
to relax.
And then same, you know, withcurves and like kind of you know
more natural things.

(56:04):
So that's one thing.
And then there is a whole theoryof like sacred geometry and how
you know particular shapes havean impact, yeah, on the nervous
system.
And again, like you see, youknow things like the Fibonacci
sequence, you know like thespirals that you see in a
nautilus shell or you see likein an unfurling fern.
You know these are things thatare, you know, sacred geometry,

(56:25):
maths that naturally occurs, youknow in the natural world, and
these things are things that thebrain, for whatever reason,
perceives as beautiful andperceives as relaxing.
So there, you know there arethings that.
And then there's also, you know, a whole theory of sacred
geometry that I can sort oftouch the surface of.
So certainly, having you knowthose kind of geometric symbols

(56:48):
and looking at them does have animpact on the brain and a lot
of them have been used, likeyou'll see, in you know, sort of
traditional um indian.
You know, like all of thesymbols for the chakras, they
are all sacred geometry and alot of you know other spiritual
and religious traditions willhave different sacred geometry
and there's also architecturalproportions.
Like you know, you go into achurch or you go into sacred

(57:11):
buildings, you know there issomething in you know the
architecture which is sacredgeometry, which again has an
impact on the nervous system andcreates a sense of awe and a
sense of, you know, relaxation.
So it is used in lots ofdifferent ways and that is
affecting, you know, the brainthrough the vision, the
frequency cards that I'm talkingabout working on a slightly

(57:31):
different level.
So there's I don't know whetheryou remember from, like you
know, physics, many, many yearsago, but you know that, like
cells in our body, they're allvibrating, yeah, and so you know
there's now, you know, researchhas been done on, you know,
analyzing the vibration ofdifferent cells in the body, and

(57:53):
they found that there aredifferent frequencies for
different types of cells in thebody.
So your liver vibrates at aslightly different frequency
than your kidneys and your skin,and so then there is, you know,
a healthy vibration for yourliver.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
And there isn't.
The thing that's coming to mindis wasn't it Wilhelm Reich that
had the yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, the Reich machine, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
He mapped all the different frequencies to all the
different organs and ailmentsand by tuning into the same
frequencies you could eithercomplement them or negate them.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah, exactly.
So that's what bioresonance,which is another one of the
energy medicines that I workwith that works with, is
actually recognizing.
There's now these differentfrequencies have been mapped,
and so if you have an issue withyour liver, you can, you know,
wear a bioresonance machine or,you know, have a bioresonance
treatment which has isprogrammed for the frequency of
a healthy liver, and so you thenput yourself in the field of

(58:44):
that frequency and you know,you've seen, have you ever seen
the example with tuning forks,where if you, you know, or two
violins and you, like, you know,you play a string, and then
there's this harmonic resonancethat happens that the other, you
know tuning fork or the otherstring that hasn't been hit, the
vibration will travel throughthe air and it will also start
sounding.
Is this the science ofco-regulation?

(59:08):
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely.
You know a facet of that, likethat's yeah, the nervous system,
when it is, yeah, you know,will co-regulate.
Your heartbeat will startregulating with someone else who
is in a state of regulation andyou feel safe, and then you
will actually co-regulate.
So there's kind of like sort ofoverlapping of, like different
theories and understanding of,you know, different aspects of

(59:28):
health and vibration andfrequency in the body.
And these cards, they areholding specific frequencies
that have, you know, a healingeffect when put either on a
person or on a space, and so youknow they're not like
specifically, like you know, say, the bioresonance we were
talking about.
These are all kind of mappedfor these cells, these organs,

(59:50):
or the antithesis you can alsohave it for, like this bacteria,
you know, has this frequency,so we can then do a disruptive
frequency, so when you put thatinto the body it will then just
naturally make the the cell wallof the bacteria burst, so that
then the bacteria dies off anddoesn't kind of keep
proliferating, growing in thebody.
Um, yeah, so bioresonance isreally interesting.
It's just something that I'mstarting to learn more about and

(01:00:13):
using for myself.
But yeah, that's that I've had.
Actually, the thing that got meinterested in that is again when
I worked in this wellnessresort in Thailand and when we
had repeat guests we'd get theirhealth profile from their
previous time and I had oneguest who two years ago had
filled out her health profileand had a couple of allergies
like shellfish and nuts, andthen in her new health profile

(01:00:39):
she hadn't written any allergiesand I was like, oh, are you
assuming that we have your, yournotes from two years ago?
And she was like, oh, no, I'mnot allergic anymore.
And I was kind of like, youknow, how is that possible?
And she's like, oh yeah, I did18 months of bioresonance and it
got rid of all of my foodallergies.
And that was my first thing oflike, okay, I knew bioresonance,
oh yeah, it's frequency andit's going to help you relax or
maybe support your mood.
But then this was someone saying, no, it had physically, you
know, changed something whichyou know was anaphylactic for

(01:01:02):
her to something that now shecould eat.
So I was just like, oh.
And then, you know, at thatpoint it was still a very new
technology and I didn't find outthat much about it, but it kind
of seeded something.
And then this year, at theOptimal Health Summit, there was
like, oh, no, it was theIntegrated Wellness, integrated
Medicine Conference.

(01:01:24):
Yeah, there was a, you know, acouple of talks on bioresonance
and I was like, ah, okay.
And then they were talkingabout, you know, the research
and there was more details andthere was, you know, people who
had been using it with theirclients.
And I was like, ah, okay, now,obviously, this is a you know, a
more developed field, and soI'm now working with that for
myself.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
What's coming up for me as I'm hearing you speak is
that I'm recognizing that youhave 20 years of study behind
you in all varying fields, buteven still you're like, oh my
god, this is a new area that I'mgoing to dive into and study.
What I kind of feel is that,naively sometimes, we can be
like, oh, a doctor knows all ofeverything about medicine and

(01:02:06):
it's like no, you could have ahundred people study for a
hundred years in all varyingareas of medicine and
unfortunately be, let's say,compartmentalized in their areas
of understanding.
The length and breadth of allthere is to know when it comes
to looking after ourselves andall the different ways that we
can look, look after ourselvesis just beyond the reach, let's

(01:02:29):
say, of an individual's lifetimeof learning.
Um, that, would that be fair tosay?

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I mean kind of yes and no, like I think if we are
trying to kind of cognitivelyunderstand all of this stuff,
then yeah, probably, you knowwe're not going to.
But I think, like I know, forme, like when I first, you know,
studied acupuncture, I thought,okay, once I've done my degree,
then you know, I will know thisand I will be able, you know,
and and then, and.
But by the time I got to my,the end, my degree, I kind of

(01:02:58):
felt like wow, now I'm aware of,like you said, how much I don't
know and how much more there isto understand, and that, you
know, while I was doing otherthings, learning other things in
parallel with that, but thatkind of really then opened of
like, oh, my God, there's somuch more to understand.
And every time you get a newlevel of understanding you
realize, ah, then there's thiswhole thing.
But then, after I'd studiednaturopathy, there was then a

(01:03:20):
kind of desire to kind of gomore minute and kind of go,
right, I'm going to dofunctional medicine, because I
only understand, you know,nutrition from a more sort of,
you know, general level.
You know, in terms ofnaturopathy I want to get really
into, like you know I can dothe.
You know basic, you know bloodtests and the.
You know this and that.
But actually I want to know allthe minutiae and whatever.

(01:03:42):
And then I suddenly realizedactually I have seen you know
like using, you know energymedicine, that, something that,
or even you know Chinesemedicine is also energy medicine
that you know there is aphysiological complaint and all
you do is you put needles insomeone over a period of time
and then you actually change howtheir body works and then you
know that physical complaintchanges and you haven't given

(01:04:04):
them any supplementation, youhaven't sort of cut anything out
or, you know, changed anything,you've just facilitated the
body kind of going back into amore aligned state.
And I realized that also, likewe mentioned earlier talking
with other types of energymedicine, so mainly life
alignment that I work with, thatyou can actually buy someone
having a shift on their mental,emotional level back and then

(01:04:27):
filter down to their physicalexperience and something can
shift either the body goes backinto alignment or symptoms clear
or energy changes and you feelyou know, from feeling like

(01:04:49):
really flat and exhausted youcan get really detailed into
nutrition and having like reallylike bespoke.
You know genetic testing andyou know all of these kind of
supplements or probiotics thatare really like very person
specific and based on your DNAsnips and like all of this stuff
.
But I might actually thosetests and those results can be

(01:05:12):
changed by, like you said,you're feeling burnt out and
then you just take a break, yougo to the countryside and then
suddenly all your allergies andsensitivities clear up.
And you haven't changed yourdiet, you haven't, you know,
taken the antihistamines or youknow whatever, some herbal
medicine or something.
You've just allowed your bodyto be in a state where it can
self-regulate.
And I think that actuallyworking at the you know the

(01:05:35):
frequency level, at the mental,emotional level, at the subtle
level, and actually supportingpeople in being able to take
that time to go, actually maybeI need to rest, I need to slow
down, I need to just be withthis, or I need to recognize
this belief that is making mepush myself too hard and
criticize myself.

(01:05:55):
If I can actually recognizethat that's unhelpful and clear
it, then actually, you know, I'mmore okay with not being
perfect or I'm not kind ofbeating myself up in my head,
which is exhausting and means Idon't sleep because I'm worrying
about that conversation that Ihad and I should have done it
differently and whatever.
And so actually working at thatlevel with people means that

(01:06:16):
you're facilitating the body andself-regulating.
So you don't actually need toknow everything.
You can actually just befacilitating change by helping
that alignment, allowing thebody to heal itself and actually
having less understanding butmore capacity to just facilitate
.
You know, the body is anamazing capacity to
self-regulate and justsupporting that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
So if I go back to my point, of view there's vast
oceans of learning.
I think there genuinely isthere is yeah but really what?
Towards the end of what youwere sharing, I was like you
could just study and study andstudy and study.
And, to be fair, like I lovethat premise of like the more I
know, the more I realize thereis to know and so the sillier I

(01:06:59):
feel.
Uh, I, I love that.
Actually, I genuinely getscared when people come across
as know-it-alls and I findmedicine.
A lot of types like to professthemselves as know-it-alls,
whereas when people have thatkind of like attitude of I'm a
never, I'm a student, I findthat very comforting because I
feel they've reached that point.
But for me, when it comes tolike studying myself, I'm like

(01:07:25):
you know.
There's a certain point whereyou have to accept that like
you'll never understand theinner workings and how
complicated our inner mechanicsare.
But if you can just tilt theodds in your favor, if you can
recognize environment that worksfor you versus not get, in
there that does, if you canrecognize foods that work for
you versus not focus in on themif you and I think it's in all

(01:07:46):
spheres, it's like therelationships that work for you,
the, the work that works foryou of all of these if you can
just start being a little bitmore true to what I would say
like your spirit, your soul,your heart.
Yeah, that has this like a kindof knock-on effect in so many
areas, um, but I always feellike there's there's much more
to somebody being sick than justthem being sick.

(01:08:08):
There's a lot of wisdom in it,if you'd only listen yeah and
then on the other side, likeactually bringing out the best
in you is quite obvious when youbreak it down, but I think we
instinctively perhaps, want toshy away from the obviousness of
it and overcomplicate it, whenin actual fact it's just like
focus on what's working for you,do more of that, move away from
what's you know, of getting youknow, being in alignment, being

(01:08:30):
in synchronicity, manifestationetc.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Is that you know doing things that put you in
this state of feeling good,feeling aligned, and then you
know things come more easilybecause you're not in this state
of push and stress and you knowyou're actually your nervous
system state.
You talked about co-regulationand that's like when it happens
in a positive way, that you knowyour nervous system regulates
with someone else and you bothcome into regulation.
But there's also the oppositelike you can dysregulate, like

(01:09:01):
if someone is like reallystressed and anxious, that you
know our nervous systems projectout into the field and you feel
that like you know, you knowwhen you're around someone that
is really like stressed oftenthat can then you know you feel
like more tense or you can pickthat up so you know the same
thing can apply.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
I love that you noted that specifically, because I do
notice you go into the wrongenvironment and you will suffer
the consequences ofdysregulation as a result of
that company You're like.
The company you keep has suchan impact on you.
Yeah, I mean I could talk toyou for ages.
Thank you so much for sharingas you have.
Uh, do you mind me asking ifsomebody is fascinated by you

(01:09:39):
and wants to get in touch,what's the best way to do?

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
that, um yeah, so I guess, uh, you can either, um
you know, look me up umsupernatural health on social
media or email me, um, you know,hanya atHealthco, and those
would probably be the best ways.
Is it just co like co, co Oof,okay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Hanya thank you so much for sharing as you have.