August 29, 2024 • 54 mins
What if embracing your imperfections could lead to stronger connections and a more fulfilling life?
In this episode, I sit down with the incredibly talented Jake Paul White, who takes us on a journey through art, authenticity, and identity. From his early days as an aspiring fine artist to finding his voice as a yoga teacher, Jake shares how vulnerability and rawness have shaped his creative path. We explore how balancing professionalism with showing your true self can foster deeper human connections and build trust with your audience.
By sharing personal anecdotes, Jake emphasizes the therapeutic benefits of embracing imperfections and rediscovering childlike wonder. This approach not only enriches artistic processes but also adds layers of joy and authenticity to everyday life.
Join us as we uncover how letting go of societal pressures for perfection can lead to more meaningful and joyous experiences.
Throughout our discussion, Jake reflects on the transitions and challenges of pursuing a creative career, from the structured world of academic art education to the dynamic landscape of social media. We tackle the complex dance between passion and profit, and how living with intention and spontaneity can lead to profound insights.
Jake’s experiences reveal the power of partnerships and connections in both personal and professional realms, demonstrating the immense value of surrounding oneself with supportive and complementary individuals.
Note: Please accept my apologies for the audio and interruptions at points throughout the piece. Jake wanted this way and explains with over the first five minutes of the recording.
If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.
I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.
Thank you for listening, Jamie x
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think, authenticity or not.
I don't know what reallyauthenticity means.
Maybe it means different thingsto different people, but a
rawness, a realness, you know.
I think we're continuouslyobsessed with refinement and I
think sometimes it's good toknow that it was created by a
(00:21):
human, and I think we can removethe touch of the human very
easily these days withtechnology.
Um, so I think, as a qualitythat reminds us of humanity, you
know, like, even through theperson themselves, like a
quote-unquote mistake, you know,is always a nice, uh,
(00:41):
demonstration of vulnerabilityand we always connect to that
because we've all been in that,that kind of position, and it's
so easy to cut that, remove it,add that.
So I think, um, yeah, a rawnessof sound quality, a rawness of
capturing, you know, just usingphone, uh, spur of the moment,
rather than being so curated.
I think all these things aredesirable and, you know, taking
(01:04):
that back to my work is kind ofa combination.
Of course there's a, of coursethere's a curation that in
essence has to be when you'recreating art and you create an
exhibition and a show and you'representing yourself to the, to
the world.
But there's many components ofthe work that is, um, out of my
control, you know know, it'splayful.
I'm using processing that Ineed to allow the paint or allow
(01:28):
the medium to do as it wishes,and then there's a humanity to
that, I think, which I think isreally beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So interesting, so you reminded me of I did this.
I used to train people inpublic speaking and so I dove
into all the different lessonsaround that space.
I did this.
I used to train people inpublic speaking and so I dove
into all the different lessonsaround that space.
And one thing is that whenpeople stood up on stage and
they presented perfectly,flawlessly it actually brought
up feelings of distrust.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, exactly, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Whereas when someone would stutter, when someone
would actually show that theywere a little bit overwhelmed,
people would lean in all themore.
People would connect with themall the more.
And so we connect with thosesubtle disconnects, those subtle
issues.
And yeah, I get that, I reallyget that there's a sweet spot,
(02:19):
right there's.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
If you go too far and , let's say, become
unprofessional, then it becomesdistrusting as well.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So there's always the same with everything in life
right, this middle way, thissense of balance between two
sides.
It's the same here.
We need to demonstrate humanitybut, at the same time, present
professionalism, knowledge,expertise, whatever it may be
that you know that we're talkingabout this conversation, so I
(02:47):
think that's also important.
But yeah, I think there's anobsession with being completely
polished, removing flaws.
You know, if that's visuallyfrom a person or through their
voice, through theircommunication.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think there's a really nice thing that you honor
somebody with your flaws.
It shows trust, it showsvulnerability, and that's very
counterintuitive to the way weare societally, where when you
think about things, you thinkabout formalities, a certain
type of language, a certain typeof dress code and everything,
(03:23):
but in actual fact what you'redoing is you're putting up a big
shield and you're blockingsomebody from really seeing you,
really getting to know you.
So, yeah, I like the idea ofyou honor someone with your
flaws.
So, okay, nice introduction.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, a little intro.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Jake, how on earth do you describe yourself?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Interesting question.
I think we a lot of the timesinitially communicate what we do
is who we are and in some waysthat's important because that's
partially how society works.
We need to present ourselvesthrough some sort of profession
to increase, uh, stature, wealthand so forth, which is, you
(04:10):
know, partially important tohave a security in life of blah
blah blah.
And so I would have gonethrough a lot of different
identities.
I've done a lot of differentskills in my time and as I've
moved more into the realms ofpaint, the kind of overarching
(04:32):
tag of being an artist seemsvery fitting because obviously
artistry can be across reallyanything.
You know, it's a very broadterm.
Of course, when we thinkartists we do think the kind of
standard fine art mediumsculpture, painting and so forth
, photography maybe, but reallyartistry or creativity can go
(04:56):
through all medium.
But I would definitely identifyand present myself as an artist
if I was going to create anoverarching singular identity of
myself.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I've wanted to interview you for ages.
My first moment of meeting youwas hilarious.
It was at my partner's birthday, where her cake came out.
Everybody's singing happybirthday and she's just about to
blow her cake out.
You about like everybody'ssinging happy birthday, she's
just about to blow her cake outand you jump in and blow out the
candle.
I was like this is a veryinteresting person.
I've never even met someonethat would think of doing that,
(05:35):
and every time I've kind of comein contact with you since it's,
there's been such, let's say,different engagements, different
reflections that you'd share,different things that you'd
express.
And I'm sitting here in yourhome and I'm looking at it and
it's so uniquely you.
There's so much thought,there's so much depth, there's
(05:58):
so much character everywhere,everywhere, and I, when I said
this to you earlier, but I feltit was really confronting,
because in seeing the amount ofdepth and the amount of
character in your space, Isuddenly see, recognize the lack
of it in certain areas of mine,and I, I'm so curious, just
like you know what you, what wekind of talked about there in
(06:20):
terms of like you, really, whenyou share yourself with somebody
, when you take down the they'dsay the bullshit facade of,
let's say, perhaps for a manwearing the suit, or doing his
hair a certain way, orexpressing yourself in the kind
of the the set okay wayssocially and you actually just
show up as you are flaws and all.
(06:42):
There's a huge trust, there's ahuge honor that you're sharing
and it my kind of my gutinstinct is that that doesn't
come that naturally, althoughit's you very naturally.
There's probably a huge amountof work learning to let yourself
be free and and truly expressyourself hmm, yeah, that's nice,
I think.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I think it might have been Picasso that spoke to the
idea that, as a mature adultartist, the pursuit is to
rediscover a childishness,expectation or a sense of reward
(07:24):
or outcome which, in allhonesty, is impossible.
You know, once we kind of gobeyond the age of eight, the way
that the the brain developsdoesn't really allow us to do
that, and it's kind of a safetymechanism right, it's a survival
mechanism, but of it'ssomething that we can train and
(07:47):
tap into and explore, and Iwould argue that I'm someone
that is naturally aperfectionist.
Through my upbringing, maybeparents and but also society in
general, I think, coming fromthe UK, maybe that has a partial
influence as well and assomeone who is now older, the
(08:17):
pursuit of being more playfuland kind of letting go and
creating systems to allow me toembrace unknown, make time for
the unknown, enjoy imperfectionand so forth, and so in my art
(08:38):
specifically but I do do this ina variety of different ways,
but I feel like art is just sucha obvious representation of of
this.
I select certain processes thatforces me to not be in control,
for example, pouring orsplashing or throwing or soaking
, as much as you have a generalidea.
Let's say, I pour down thecanvas, I know it's going to go
(08:59):
down, but how you know?
What kind of route is it goingto go?
And you could argue thatsomewhat like life, like we
could choose maybe a career path, but we don't know exactly how
that path is going to navigateand actually we might even
choose another path in thefuture, of course.
Um, but yeah, I'm continuouslychallenging myself, uh, with
(09:19):
that matter, because I have seenthe benefits, because it does
spill into other areas of mylife.
I always like that phrase ofthe way you do anything is the
way you do everything, and Ithink it's somewhat true.
I mean, there's kind of a grayarea between different areas of
your life and so forth, but theydo spill over 100%.
(09:41):
So the work is a very nice, theartwork's a very nice medium
and process that can be veryconfronting and very rewarding.
You know, therapeutic and, yeah, that's that.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I kind of as you were speaking there.
It's funny how kind ofperspective sometimes just comes
.
So I'm actually remembering mylast birthday that I spent at
home about to blow out mycandles.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
By the way, on the candles thing no, but you made
me sound like a dick.
No, you weren't actually.
Do you know the context of it?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm recognizing the genius in it.
My eight-year-old niece pushedme out of the way and blew out
my candles and I'm like, do youknow what it's funny when she
did it.
It's so playful and so sweetand so fun and I was like, yeah,
it's, it's weird we're allobsessed with taking things so
bloody seriously and we're allobsessed with presenting
ourselves so perfectly when inactual fact, that's just not
(10:42):
true and and actually expressingour messiness is again, it's
just refreshing itself.
To me, it's actually the nicestthing you can do with someone
and then the playfulness and theturning worlds upside down and
and taking the taking, the um,the boringness out of life.
In terms of this, like I thinkfor some reason there's this
(11:04):
instinctive want for so many ofus to kind of have such order
and such a linear, like approachto life, safety and we wonder
why we're bored we wonder whywe're depressed and it's like
come on, enjoy a little bit ofspice so an actual fact.
I'm starting to appreciate thatmoment more and more.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
But give me the context behind the scene I don't
know the context, I can't evenremember, but I would love there
must been.
I would say I'm someone thatlikes to play with humor.
Yeah, I think it's a veryinteresting way to communicate.
I would argue that sometimes itgets me into trouble, you know,
dependent on company and timing.
(11:43):
But I think if it's somethingthat you're interested in, you
do have to take risks and a lotof time with comedy.
Speed is is one of your, one ofthe main components.
Like it has to be deliveredquite instantaneously and I'm
sure there was some sort ofsetup or I don't.
I've never, that I can remember, ever just blown someone's
(12:06):
candles out.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I actually I love what you said there because the
amount of times like I've, let'ssay, let my guard down, felt
really free, felt like such funrunning through me and been
having so much fun with thegroup.
And then, of course, I go astep too far, yeah, and I upset
the apple cart and, and,unfortunately, as a result you
(12:27):
know, I didn't, I didn't justlearn to be like, ah, you know,
sometimes shit happens I'm sorryand get it and just continue on
be me.
In those moments I locked upparts of me and so much of my
personal journey has beenlearning to open those parts
back up and perhaps learn how toexpress myself in the moment or
deal with the situations thatunfold in this, in it and harm
(12:50):
this way, so that I can be moreme.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
But it feels like this is my projection here, but
it's like society has justlocked itself up so much that
it's very sterilized and it'svery boring and in actual fact,
there's a real need fordisruptors and rebels and
playmakers and messers, to shakethings up a little bit so that
we don't get too uniformed andtoo boring and too depressed
(13:18):
yeah, yeah, I agree, I think, um, I wouldn't put myself in the
uh, I would say I'm somewhere inthe middle, regarding the kind
of two archetypes, and I quitelike that intelligent ways to
(13:41):
break rules that can be very um,what's the words?
What's the word I want?
Kind of caring to other people,you know, um, respectful to
your surroundings.
I think a lot of rule breakersunfortunately not unfortunately,
maybe even maybe necessarily uh, have to upset and, um, you
(14:02):
know, to carve a new way.
But I don't think that'snecessarily my place and I think
you can still walk your ownpath while you know caring and
supporting and being mindful ofother people's paths and kind of
(14:23):
being empathetic of the peoplearound you, and that's
definitely something that I'vehad to develop over time empathy
and understanding and lovingthe people around me, and I
think that's become I thinkthat's become very important and
like, coming back to humor, youknow we have this, this kind of
phrase of like I'm just beingmyself, but yourself is just a
(14:48):
curation from your upbringingand and so forth.
Yourself is the, you know, theego that you present.
This, this just yourself thatyou believe you are, is not
truly you.
It's being created in the waythat you can create, you can.
You can develop any sense of uhway that you can create.
You can develop any sense ofpersona that you would like, and
so being less attached to this,like this is me, is something
(15:11):
that I try to work on.
And, you know, if you lovecertain people around you, I
think you can somewhat let go ofthat Because, of course,
there's an enjoyment with theidentity that you create.
Hopefully, you know, hopefullyyou're enjoying what you're
doing.
Um, you know the, you know thethings that you offer to your
(15:31):
community, if that be humor orintelligence or whatever
component.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Uh, love, care when you're sharing that.
What's coming up for me isobviously that line humor is the
highest form of intellect andwe we can be our lazy selves or
we can be our highest selves.
And I think, when I kind oflook back on my journey, what
was a big part of learning was,like jay, you can be yourself,
but you have to learn how to,how to deal with consequences
(15:59):
how to do how to be yourselfrespectfully, like.
I really like what you sharedthere, like learning to be
yourself whilst being respectfuland empathetic to those that
you're around, and learn to likeand to play fine lines and
edges and it it somewhatmagically seems to reflect
itself in your heart.
Actually, yeah, you weresharing of, like when you're
(16:21):
pouring or when you're soaking,you're kind of letting
creativity flow.
Yeah, you're letting thingsflow, but there is an art to
making it something beautifulrather than just an obvious, big
mess.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, that's nice, that's exactly it.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's an intentionbehind it that when you view the
work, there's an understandingthat it has been somewhat
curated and it's beautifully puttogether.
I like this idea of idealism,idealism within nature, that we
(16:59):
have the components of nature.
Let's imagine you're looking ata landscape.
In an idealistic world.
It would be the idea that Icould then move them around,
like, ah, them four trees wouldactually look better here, and
if we just change the angle ofthat mountain a little bit, it'd
be more balanced.
And in some ways, you know, myart represents landscapes.
(17:22):
I think they could representother things, but I think
there's a connection tolandscape and I think that's
partly it.
I'm kind of through dreams,through memories and my
surroundings, nature itself.
(17:44):
I think what I'm doing ispulling components together, if
that be shapes, colors and soforth, to create something that
is, from my point of view,beautiful, you know, like
something that it feels.
Feels, you know, there's a anemotional connection to it.
Um, so yeah, no, it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I I'm really curious.
It's like a real cliche coachingquestion okay I like you in
doing what you do now and, likeobserving your life as it is now
, do you want me asking, whenyou look back on your journey to
where you are, what you thinkwas, like, the biggest catalyst
that like pushed you into thisspace of creative creativity and
(18:30):
art?
You know, we, like we're really, you know some.
I'm sitting here in your homeand I can see so much of it is
thought out.
You're obviously like, when itcame to recording this, you're
like, look, I want to do thislive.
I want to have the airconditioning on and back, I want
to have, like, I want it to bea proper insight in, like, these
are all very creative, thoughtout decision, decisions.
It's reflected in everythingyou do.
(18:51):
So what's, yeah, what you thinkpushed you on your way to where
you are now?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I think, like a lot of people, there's multiple
components right as you as youmove through your, through your
life and you look back, and thenthere's these kind of key
decisions or moments in timethat then have created the
person that you are.
I got an art degree in fine artand paint and print and I
(19:21):
remember that time.
Reflecting now, I was very much, you know, a young boy that
didn't have the sense ofdirection or confidence to
pursue that.
I think any young talent or anyyoung person that's out there
that is willing to share theirwork is unbelievable.
(19:44):
I definitely wasn't able to do,I couldn't.
I couldn't imagine puttingmyself out there like that.
I think also, financially, Ihad zero security, so the the
need to need to have moneyinstantaneously was there.
So I moved to graphics and youknow I worked on that for a very
long time and you know that'skind of 13, 14 years now until
(20:07):
today.
I, through that journey, alsofound yoga.
I became a yoga teacher and theyoga teacher allowed me to find
my voice.
There's kind of there's manythings that yoga gave me.
It's not something that Inecessarily practice now, things
that yoga gave me.
(20:27):
It's not something that Inecessarily practice now, but it
allowed me to travel the worldand it definitely gave me the
confidence to speak freely andto, you know, to large groups
and so forth, and that wasdefinitely a skill that I did
not have and I think I thinkthat's a huge, huge component.
You know, kind of seven yearsof my life, it was full time for
me and time.
So now, you know, just kind ofthinking about M-Components, I
have the design agency still, sothat's kind of a sense of
(20:51):
security there, and you know, Ihave multiple other businesses
as well.
But because of that, because ofage and because of, I think, the
development of characterthrough teaching, has allowed me
to come back to paint.
So now I've been painting foraround two years, I would say
(21:11):
somewhat consistently, andtrying to remember who I was at,
say, early 20s to now coming upto mid 30s, is a drastic,
drastic shift that allows me tofeel very content and very
confident to produce this work,with not necessarily needing an
(21:34):
outcome.
Of course, I would love to shareit to people, to purchase it,
to present it to the world,maybe to live beyond me and to
continuously be a catalyst forme to develop my own personality
and inject creativity into mylife, which obviously is amazing
because, again, if I addcreativity here, I'm going to
add creativity there, you know.
I mean that's the beautifulthing about doing multiple
(21:58):
ventures they all inspire eachother.
You know, I'll learn somethingover in graphics that can come
over to paint.
I learn something to paint thatallows me to maybe move over to
movement, you know, or my youknow, a build or whatever it may
be.
Um so, obviously a very simplecompressed uh version, but I
(22:20):
would say they're kind of acouple of key components that
allowed me to get to where I am.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Okay, so what's coming up for me is so.
What I heard, first andforemost is actually you really
wanted to be an artist,originally speaking, right?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, yeah, so we go back a little bit earlier.
I sucked at school.
Actually it's still.
There's a deep-rooted pain whenit comes to education and,
specifically, language.
It was a very weak skill set ofmine and it's always what I
(22:55):
believe, held me back.
You know a belief of mine.
But if you look in a differentway, what it forced me to do is
basically choose art.
I had no choice.
I know so many people that werelike they didn't know where to
go.
They were kind of okay ateverything or even good at
everything, and I had no choice.
(23:16):
I was like I was good at art, Iwas well good, maybe is even
pushing it, but I was reallyshit at everything else.
So in comparison, I wasdefinitely good.
So I went to school for art andthen I had parents that
somewhat were traditional andwould have loved me to continue
schooling and never forced.
But in all honesty, I alwaysfelt very young and behind other
(23:39):
people, so I wasn't ready toreally go out into the real
world.
So I went to college, did art,loved it.
I really kind of found mypassion in college because if
you've been through artschooling, the transition from
you know 13 to 16 in secondaryschool it's all about.
You most likely get a goodgrade, especially in.
(24:00):
I've talked to my school, but Ithink it's quite common.
If you can copy well, then whenyou move into college, it's kind
of starting to promote that.
It doesn't matter aboutduplicating, it's all about
expressing.
So that was a very difficulttransition.
And then I went to universityand continued to do so, but I
(24:26):
couldn't see the end of thetunnel being if I keep making
this work, I can make money.
Social media was just coming in.
I think Maybe, yeah, just Ithink, like maybe Instagram just
popped up, but I didn't have it.
So the idea of like, using asocial media platform to promote
your work was Just not done.
That would have been insanelyrare, I imagine.
Yeah, so graphics seem to makesense because what I can do is
(24:51):
find a client, the client tellsme what to do, I create, they
give me the money, and stillsomewhat creative.
But it's a creative pursuit tosolve business problems right,
which I still love.
I think it's amazing and Ithink the two can work and build
a very rounded, nearly even arounded person, but definitely a
rounded offering.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So yeah, when I think about your art, where you you
said look, I create my art likeI've kind of covered my boxes
with my other kind of venturesand I'm creating my art really
just as my own creativeexpression.
I'm not really creating them tosell.
There's something for me thatkind of thinks that really art
should never be created to sell.
Yeah, that we should that whenit comes to creating art, it
(25:59):
should.
It should actually be that likeand sorry, this is me, my
influence but like I love theidea that something isn't
created to sell, to be sold,it's just an expression from the
heart and I kind of think thatthere is a lot of art online
that is shared and sorry that iscreated solely with the
intention of being sold and Ikind of think like, yeah, it
ticks a box and that's grand andeverything like that.
But there's something I justlove about art being created
just for the sake of it, notwith a financial intention in
mind.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yes, of course there's a beauty there.
I think one would argue there'smaybe a sweet spot again where
and this will now speak tobuilding a team and finding the
right people in your life If youcan find someone to support you
, where the artist can createfor the sake of creating, in
(26:37):
essence, and very much be intheir creative flow and produce
and go through that journey ofexploration and creativity and
expression, storytelling,whatever it may be, and then you
have someone else that, inessence, tells you, maybe,
(26:58):
potentially, when it's finished,or when it is finished, they
take it and they distribute itBecause, of course, if you're
creating something so beautifuland so raw, it would be crazy
for someone not to enjoy thatyou know to, to not live a long
life, to not be savored and, um,protected and looked after and
(27:18):
uh.
So, if you can get someone tosupport you, to share your
message or sell your work, um,then there will be this
separation, then that allows theartist to be the artist and the
salesman, in essence, to be thesalesman.
And I think that, for me, in ifyou want to be an artist, that
it becomes your profession, um,because there's a beauty in it
(27:42):
becoming your profession,there's a magic.
Of course, there's also a magicin doing it for the sake of
doing it, um, but there'ssomething also very beautiful,
uh, with the purpose of, of, ofsharing it with the world, you
know, with creating, with theidea that you are an artist, it
is your profession, it is youridentity.
(28:02):
I think there's a, a greaterpotential, uh, purpose and depth
to what you're offering outinto the world.
But, unfortunately, a lot oftime you'll get saturated with
the need to sell.
You have, like, a lack of funds, a lack of security.
So I think, if you're a, for methat seems like a sweet spot.
(28:26):
Of course it could be a personselling.
Also, you could work withgalleries.
There's a few other variables,of course, but I think, if you
can find that, which isn't easy,um, it could take a long time,
but I think, I think that'swhere a lot of magic is there
yeah, I I actually recognize itkind of entered into a subject
that's, I can imagine, so fullof opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Um, I actually love to bring it.
You back to what you justshared originally about that.
You know, almost like forces ofschool and stuff encouraging
you towards art, like for me,when I heard that, I remembered
I really wanted to be a coachwhen I was like 16, 17.
But in actual fact when Iexpressed it it was kind of met
(29:09):
with a bit of shame of, oh God,you don't want to do that and I
went off on a whole journey,only to come back to this.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I'm so happy about the journey because obviously it
puts depth and puts perspectivein and everything, but I think
it's I love that you kind ofadmired that for those that can
express themselves artisticallyfrom a young age like, wow,
credit to them, because it'shighly vulnerable.
I think, yeah, I think, andeven if we go back to the very
(29:40):
start of our conversation withregards to actually just being
your raw, authentic self,learning to be respectful of
that and empathetic, but notputting up this guard, yeah,
lots is kind of coming up for mein that regard.
I'm curious if you got to againa very cliche coaching question
, you ready If you got to talkto your 18, 19?
(30:00):
year old self in college, nowwith the head on your shoulders
that you have any tips, any bitsthat you'd share, any pearls of
wisdom.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
There's different perspectives on this.
One of if it's as in the setup.
One is I wouldn't changeanything because I'm exactly who
I am at the exact right timeand I'm exactly where I'm
supposed to be.
And I think that's an idea thatI've ingrained in myself over
(30:31):
time, because we get to chooseright.
We get to choose how weperceive the world and how we
move through it and how we feelwe can kind of control that.
To a certain extent, I feellucky with the life that I've
been offered.
There's a privilege there aswell I have to, uh, be thankful
(30:52):
for.
But so that would be one angle.
The other angle, let's just sayit was another 18 year old that
was in the same position as me.
What would I offer them?
Because then there's like aslight separation.
Nice, um, oh, it's a goodquestion, because I think it's
so.
You've got to tap into theuniqueness of the person.
(31:12):
You got to feel into them.
You know, like are they unsure?
But you can see they have apassion and a talent and I want
to like, encourage, inspire thatand maybe present them with
encouragement or inspirationfrom other things that I've I've
been inspired by in my own life, or maybe I noticed that
(31:36):
they're not ready and actually abreak or a separation or time
to let go of this identity thatthey maybe felt pressure with
such a long time and they'reable to come back to it.
So I think it's really case bycase, and maybe through my yoga
teaching past, that's somethingthat I've enjoyed really kind of
(32:06):
feeling into the nuances of.
It's not what you say, it's howyou say, and I think that would
be part of that as well, but Ithink that's a very you know,
you as a coach is kind ofbasically what you're doing,
right, in essence, it's your job, and I experienced that a
little bit through yoga.
You know, as a yoga teacher,there is opportunities of
(32:27):
coaching in essence, you know,potentially depending on what
kind of teacher you want to beand so forth, but that that
shows up as well.
But I was, if I was gonna belike a little bit more
overarching and vague, andsomething that I think is very
powerful is make time for theunknown, and I think that I just
love that idea and it's alwaysserved me so well
(32:50):
retrospectively, the time whereyou can book in time for nothing
.
You know, maybe travel is agreat example of that.
Less so now when I travel Ididn't have a phone so we can
kind of be connected.
In essence working, but yeah,opportunities to experience
something new, to get newinformation, to have space to
(33:12):
learn, to develop, to newexperiences to come up, for me
that's powerful and I still doit now.
And you know, maybe in the pastit might have been a whole year
off but now it potentiallycould be just a day or a weekend
up in the mountains.
You know it can be shorterperiods of time that can still
be very impactful.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
um, yeah, so yeah, I remember when I was like oh so
when should we do this podcast?
And you're like whenever youwant.
I was like what you're like?
Yeah, whenever you want.
I have nothing in my scheduleand again, pretty confronting
for me who I have like a fairlychock-a-block schedule and I
recognize that oftentimes thatschedule interferes with
spontaneity, and it's in thosemoments where I do get a bit of
(33:53):
time and freedom that actually Ifind great solutions to
problems.
And there's the kind of the thethought are we?
Are we scheduling ourselves umaway from the idea that we've
been searching for?
are the perspective that wouldchange everything, and so I love
that.
Like you know, if I was goingto share a little bit of advice
(34:15):
with somebody, look, this is theone I'm taking from.
What you shared is like maketime to just actually live and
open up and see what unfolds,and I always say when I'm
working with clients we're goingto move you from a way uh sorry
, from living reactively to bemore proactive and um and the
(34:38):
kind of the insight into thereactive living is somebody that
gets up and is essentiallychasing their day and
apologizing to everybody on theway for being a little bit late
which so many of us findourselves in that state so
often, and in the proactive I'mgenerally like, oh you know, get
scheduling and all that.
But I think the step beyondthat is actually where, no,
you've you've made really gooddecisions that allow for things
(35:00):
to flow without the constantneed to be engaging with you and
you've given yourself notcreated for yourself greater
freedom and through that freedom.
That's where you can start tomake real impact.
I love that You're the firstperson that's ever, when I've
asked that question, created thedivide.
(35:20):
Some have said, oh, I wouldn'twant to change anything because
I'm happy where I'm at, which Ialways feel is quite a cliche,
safe answer, and it's the onethat is professed, that you
should be so happy with whereyou're at, um.
But there is real, valid truthin it.
But the night, I like the wayyou detached it so you could
punch in and kind of give, give,give advice without um, let's
(35:42):
say, interrupting the very flowof life that you've had.
Thank you, yeah it's very cool.
It um.
One thing I I loved, like Iloved about this podcast was it
gave me the opportunity to,let's say, almost deep dive into
people's life, people's lifephilosophy, and because we can
(36:03):
get very stuck on our own andand naturally, of course, we're
living our lives, so we thinkthe way we're living is best,
and it is so fascinating for meto get insights into other
people's lives, to see howthey're living, what they're
doing differently, and I kind offeel, yeah, everybody has these
kind of foundational pillars interms of how they live their
(36:27):
life.
What I'm getting from you iscreate space and time for what
might come, spontaneity and toreally live, um, to take your
time and and and reallyintentionally live like you are
not living in someone else'scurated, interiorly designed
(36:49):
space.
You have created your home andit is an expression of your life
, like it is an artist's studio.
It's fantastic, fantastic.
I'm.
I'm curious.
Does anything else come up thatyou're like jamie, how have you
missed this about me and thisis my philosophy for life?
Does anything else kind of popup?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
well, maybe let's just start with that kind of.
Obviously we learn a lot aboutthe day.
We want to live the week, wewant to live the month, we want
to live the year we want to live, and we create these different
components.
You're definitely right that Icreate a life that allows for
opportunity for for um variablesto come in.
(37:32):
So my morning somewhat in themorning could be arguably four
to five hours will be me wakingup and moving into creating in
some form.
So I stay in the home, I stay inthe home and I'll do something.
I'll paint, I'll design.
There'll be some sort of maybeI look after the home, you know
(37:57):
if that be gardening or cleaningor you know various things you
know I like to.
There's kind of this sense ofI'm very productive in the
morning but I have no set thingthat I necessarily have to do.
Most of the time it's want, youknow, like a whatever kind of
I'm excited to do, like, let'ssay, I painted in the evening, I
(38:17):
might wake up and want to keepgoing.
I'm like I need to get this,this done.
Um, and with design work, youknow, there's somewhat of a time
schedule that is open but thatmight motivate me as well.
Um so a time to create yeahsection, let's call it section
one.
Then a time to um, connect,community insanely important, I
(38:43):
might say the most.
Um.
I've moved around my whole lifedad was in the army and this is
actually the longest I've everlived anywhere in my whole life
and the compound effect ofstaying in one location.
It's not something that I'velearnt before, so it's something
that's become more apparentrecently in my adult life.
(39:03):
And now I see I have somebusiness partners that are very
close friends of mine and we seeeach other every single day.
So we own a restaurant.
And now I see that I have somebusiness partners that are very
close friends of mine and we seeeach other every single day.
So we own a restaurant andbecause of that we see each
other every day and we seefriends and we see community
that we see every day.
So I eat and talk and connectand reflect, blah, blah, blah,
blah, and that's just such a.
(39:26):
So that's lunchtime, onewhatever, and it's such an
amazing time to it anchors myday.
It's there, it's boom, and thenI move.
So I move a bit.
Later in the day three, Iactually move with someone.
So another anchor.
I have to show up for them andI want to show up for me, of
course, but it's always easierto show up for someone else than
(39:46):
yourself.
I personally think I think alot of people would probably
also agree.
Um, of course it's amazing tobe able to show up for yourself,
but I would argue that it'smore effort.
Um, and then I move into theevening, and then the evening is
open again.
Could be continue to paint,create, design, but also there's
a lot of social elements in theevening as well, so that's also
(40:08):
open.
For that.
I can always say yes, if I wantto, I will.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
If I get invited to something, I probably will go if
I want to so, as you're sharingthis like what's coming coming
up for me and I, I love thatlike critiquing voice, it's like
, oh, you know that that's allwell, good for you.
You don't have the nine to fiveor the best of that and the
next, and there's been obviouslysome really strong decisions
for you.
Yes, in terms of not, uh, not,let's say, getting trapped.
Yes, and making sure that youcan live the life you want to
(40:37):
live.
How have you created thatfreedom?
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I left university.
We mentioned it yeah didn't wantto be an artist, scared.
Yeah, wanted to be a designer.
Yeah, I created a designportfolio very quickly, I think
within days, built a website andcreate, in essence, fake
projects.
They weren't for clients, but Ipresented them in a to
demonstrate my skills.
(41:03):
Yeah, and I had these skillsbecause I was actually using
photoshop to paint.
Yeah, and so what I would do ispaint on canvas and then take a
photograph.
I would Photoshop it and then Iwould copy the Photoshop
version back into paint and Iwould go back and forth and
that's how I developed the ideas.
It was really beautiful and atthe time, photoshop was quite
somewhat new.
It was in its infancy, I think.
(41:25):
Within the first five years, Ithink oh sorry, I just lost
track, so what was it again?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
No, you were talking about your expertise in terms of
how it kicked you off into thedesign side, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
So then I got a design job very quickly I think
actually like two days, it wasamazing Moved to London and then
I was full-time nine to fivegraphic designer for a company
where you're doing somewhatbasic graphic design work
adverts, updates, littlemarketing stuff.
Very quickly I realized this isnot going to work for me.
(42:01):
I did a multi.
This is good.
It's probably quite relevant,maybe to your audience as well.
I actually don't even know whoyour audience is.
I think you'll find it funny.
I think a lot of people haveread the Tim Ferriss book the
Four-Hour Workweek.
That's why I said it might berelevant.
One of the things on there hesays that he only answers emails
(42:21):
twice a day and he has anauto-reply on the email saying I
reply at this time only.
So I did the same thing, but Iwas in a company, he was running
his company, so the way thatpeople communicated within the
company was about 30 of us.
We would email each other.
Oh, jake, can you do this?
And then they get this autoreply saying oh, by the way, I
(42:41):
only answer my emails at 9 and 4pm.
And then obviously someonecomplained, went to the manager.
The manager came to me and hewas like actually, I like you
just did this without asking.
It's cool, we can see if itworks, but if it slows down
progress of the whole team,we're gonna have to stop it.
Of course, we did have to stopit, but I, I I'm like that he,
(43:02):
he knew the answer, yeah, but Ilike that he allowed me to
figure it out and I think thatwas a big eye-opener for me.
To be quite honest, I was likeI can't do the thing I want to
do, these things that are beingtold.
You know, I'm learning, I wantto integrate them and so I think
that might be one of the keyaspects.
So, within about six months, Iwas kind of done and I left in
eight and I went traveling likea lot of people do you know, a
(43:29):
lot of people do afterUniversity.
The reason I actually didn't doafter university and I remember
this, this idea is I trained tobe an artist and I quote
unquote failed and I wanted toprove to myself that I could be
this designer.
I don't want to just like, failat artistry and then just go
travel and I don't even know ifI had enough capital.
(43:50):
To be quite honest, that mighthave been partially also it.
So I think I did enough toprove to myself and also made a
bit of capital and also realizedI can't be doing this office
thing.
I went traveling.
I found yoga.
I did a yoga teacher training.
About two weeks later, the yogateacher training was my first
yoga class.
Did a yoga teacher trainingabout two weeks later.
(44:11):
The yoga teacher training wasmy first yoga class.
So I went straight into anashtanga teacher training, which
was obviously somewhat intensebut amazingly eye-opening.
And then I was on a journey forseven years of yoga.
But at the start of this thisis a really beautiful
integration that will kind ofshow you how I partially got to
where I am.
I met this really wonderful girlthat I still have distant
(44:33):
connection with.
You know.
We might say hey, now and againI remember her saying I was
this, was it?
I was drawing in class.
Again, I'm not very good atpaying attention in the anything
outside of the physical orcreative elements, so when we
were talking about history ofyoga and anatomy of yoga, I
(44:56):
turned off and what I ended updoing was drawing.
Predominantly at the time I wasdrawing geometric shapes.
I loved it and she also wasvery much an artist in spirit,
let's say very much a creativestill is.
And she said you should takephotographs of these and put
them on Instagram.
And I think I kind of replied Idon't really know what
(45:17):
Instagram is, I don't reallyhave one.
She showed me hers.
It was super cool, not likepolished, but just like her
being her, taking a few pictureshere and there, and that was it
.
I was then taking pictures ofdrawings and pictures of me
making yoga shapes.
Now we've got to think again.
This is like 10, nearly 15years ago.
(45:38):
The whole yoga thing onInstagram had great demand and
great traction and I ended upbecoming a yoga teacher and a
graphic designer, becoming ayoga teacher and a graphic
design graphic designer.
So what?
What was the niche?
And it just happened for me, inessence is other yoga teachers
or yoga industry would messageme because they believed that I
had the skill to develop logosand various other branding
(46:02):
elements to support their yogabusiness.
Because there's thisinterconnectivity and connection
.
And I remember posting thefirst logo on instagram, you
know whatever.
100 followers, 500 followers.
I don't know what I had by thistime.
Um, I had another job in a week, then I had another job in a
week and then I then I kind oflike, oh, maybe I should like
figure out pricing and maybehave a pdf and like make an
(46:24):
email template.
You know how it is like I waskind of developing out that
business.
At the same time I was gettinganother yoga class oh, can you
teach here?
And that eventually turned intoa workshop.
And then I was designing maybethe advertisements for workshops
for other studios and I wastaking the photography for them
studios and I was building theirwebsite and then I was teaching
for them.
So there was this big whirlwindof the yoga supported the
(46:48):
design, the design supported theyoga and that was basically
give or take seven years ofgrowth with the two things
became one.
That was my job.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I was a yoga designer sorry, I, I I'm remembering
back to when instagram firststarted it was so artistic and
cool ah, yeah, full of loads ofphotographers, full of loads of
artists.
Very, you know, it's actuallyamazing how fast trends move now
, um, but how and how fastplatforms develop and everything
(47:20):
like that, but at the veryoriginal time, instagram was
such a creative outlet forpredominantly artists.
Um, I love just hearing aboutyour journey, how I always think
life is teaching us all thetime, obviously, um, but most of
us are resisting the lessons,and if you can only listen, um,
(47:42):
and refine accordingly, youstart to progress through things
really fast, and so I love,like you're reading tim ferris
and he's talking, talking aboutscheduling your time for
responding to messages yeahrecognize that the environment
doesn't really allow for that.
So you change environments, youfind yourself in yoga space.
It's funny.
I always felt yoga was a big umlike vehicle, almost to connect
(48:05):
more with myself and to buildmore confidence in myself, and I
pull the elements of what youshared, you talked about, like
yoga allowed me to kind of buildyour, build your confidence
build your creativity, buildyour communication skills.
Um, it's funny how that I findthat question of like when you
just reflect back.
It's very cliche on steve jobskind of saying connect the dots
(48:29):
looking back but you really cansee how little events shaped and
pushed you on to where you areright now.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
And so, really, what you've just been doing is you've
consciously been showing upmost days and seeing what's
working for you, doing more ofthat, and what's not, and
working to do less of that.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
And just through process of following that
journey, you find yourselfwaking up in an environment that
is your own, doing work that'syour own.
You're also a massive believerin partnerships yes, big, big,
big, big yeah so you recognizeyour own weaknesses, your own
areas that perhaps need strength, and you partner up to give
(49:08):
yourself space yes yeah 100% andI would say that's the the main
catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I've known it for longer but really been able to
like see it and feel it wascoming together and building the
restaurant with two of mypartners there and we're a
beautiful harmony.
It's crazy the how the threecomponents of us came together.
If you're interested in kind ofarchetype systems from human
(49:39):
designs to star signs to 16personalities you know all these
different things.
Um, we all dabble in thesethings when none of us are kind
of attached to them or kind ofheavily educated in them.
But if you look at them at asurface level, we have an
amazing harmony between all ofthese different systems.
(50:00):
It's very, very cool and that'ssomething we looked at
afterwards.
It wasn't like, oh, let's checkthat we're going to work
together.
It was more like, wow, this isamazing.
And actually it might have beenlike a friend comes in like oh,
what are you guys, do you know?
And they were like they seethat we're doing so well, and
then they're interested.
So actually that's how it'shappened.
It wasn't even it was none ofus that brought it up.
It was another third party thatwould come in, you know, and
(50:22):
maybe a friend of a friend andso forth, but that's amazing.
When that happens and I don'tknow if this is something that
just came to me or maybe wastold or overheard Even if this
business doesn't work or we foldit in the future or whatever it
(50:44):
may be, the business is not theimportant thing and it's not
the hard thing.
The hard thing is having theright partners.
If you have the right partners,even if a business fails,
you'll be able to create anotherbusiness and do something else
together.
You know there's this, like alot of people will relate to.
We've all gone through avariety of romantic partners.
(51:05):
We've been through a variety offriends.
Most likely, and obviously wechange and develop as humans and
unfortunately, sometimes thatdoesn't align with how other
people grow and we we godifferent directions and so
forth.
Um, so to be able to find thatunison and that strength within
a friendship partnership, Ithink is is very magical and I'm
(51:26):
very, I feel feel veryfortunate for that, because it's
also it's very much a, there'sa warmth of something that feels
like a family.
You know, beyond just a surfacelevel business relationship,
it's something that is a lotmore warm.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, I'm thinking about this kind of societal norm
that's out there at the moment,which is that we should be very
independent beings.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
And I think that is so unhelpful because
unfortunately, we are actuallyvery limited beings when we
really look at ourselvesproperly in the mirror.
We can be great at some thingsand we can be awful at others,
and I think a lot of peopletorture themselves trying to be
great at everything and it's asure fast way, I think, to get
(52:14):
you nowhere, whereas if you canrecognize your limitations and
you can actually start to seethe brilliance in others.
Take, for example, therestaurant that you went into.
It's hilarious.
In Bali there are so manyrestaurants.
You go into your place Sundaysand you can see that there's
such an enormous level of detailand there's a lot of detail in
other places, but there's veryobviously a lot of care and
(52:37):
attention to detail in terms oflike the mug, the saucer the
tray, the table, the chair, themenu.
There's real, obvious depth andlove, which is exactly what's
shared in your home, where inBali there's a lot of cookie
cutter homes because there's somany builders just throwing out,
throwing out places, whereashere there's there's so much
(52:57):
bloody attention to detail.
here and it's, um, it's verystimulating and I can see that,
yeah, when it comes to therestaurant, no doubt they
partner with somebody like youand you bring a heart and soul
to the place, you bring a warmthto it and I, um, I feel that
there's there's such a value in,in partnerships.
(53:18):
I I find that when I'm stressed,when I'm out of sorts, I
isolate and I, I, I really feelalone in those, in those moments
, and it's so silly becausethose are the very moments I
should be leaning into othersaround me and I think we as,
let's say, people.
My projection, my belief isthat we are all isolating at the
moment and wondering why we'refeeling so lonely, so depressed,
so out of sorts.
(53:39):
In actual fact, if we couldjust learn to lean into others
that little bit more and, yes,it is hard to relate, we all
learn those lessons throughfriendships and through
partnerships but if we canovercome the blocks and learn to
connect that little bit more, Ithink there's such strength in
it, there's such growth, there'sso much of it.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
I could waffle the ears off people with you for
quite some time, but, jake,thank you for having a chat
together.
If somebody wanted to followyou or connect with you, what's
the best way?
Speaker 1 (54:12):
the best way is definitely instagram, so my
handle is jake underscore paulunderscore white.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
It's great last name, thank you pleasure.
I think, authenticity or not.
I don't know what reallyauthenticity means.
Maybe it means different thingsto different people, but a
rawness, a realness, you know.
I think we're continuouslyobsessed with refinement and I
think sometimes it's good toknow that it was created by a
(00:21):
human, and I think we can removethe touch of the human very
easily these days withtechnology.
Um, so I think, as a qualitythat reminds us of humanity, you
know, like, even through theperson themselves, like a
quote-unquote mistake, you know,is always a nice, uh,
(00:41):
demonstration of vulnerabilityand we always connect to that
because we've all been in that,that kind of position, and it's
so easy to cut that, remove it,add that.
So I think, um, yeah, a rawnessof sound quality, a rawness of
capturing, you know, just usingphone, uh, spur of the moment,
rather than being so curated.
I think all these things aredesirable and, you know, taking
(01:04):
that back to my work is kind ofa combination.
Of course there's a, of coursethere's a curation that in
essence has to be when you'recreating art and you create an
exhibition and a show and you'representing yourself to the, to
the world.
But there's many components ofthe work that is, um, out of my
control, you know know, it'splayful.
I'm using processing that Ineed to allow the paint or allow
(01:28):
the medium to do as it wishes,and then there's a humanity to
that, I think, which I think isreally beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So interesting, so you reminded me of I did this.
I used to train people inpublic speaking and so I dove
into all the different lessonsaround that space.
I did this.
I used to train people inpublic speaking and so I dove
into all the different lessonsaround that space.
And one thing is that whenpeople stood up on stage and
they presented perfectly,flawlessly it actually brought
up feelings of distrust.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, exactly, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Whereas when someone would stutter, when someone
would actually show that theywere a little bit overwhelmed,
people would lean in all themore.
People would connect with themall the more.
And so we connect with thosesubtle disconnects, those subtle
issues.
And yeah, I get that, I reallyget that there's a sweet spot,
(02:19):
right there's.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
If you go too far and , let's say, become
unprofessional, then it becomesdistrusting as well.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So there's always the same with everything in life
right, this middle way, thissense of balance between two
sides.
It's the same here.
We need to demonstrate humanitybut, at the same time, present
professionalism, knowledge,expertise, whatever it may be
that you know that we're talkingabout this conversation, so I
(02:47):
think that's also important.
But yeah, I think there's anobsession with being completely
polished, removing flaws.
You know, if that's visuallyfrom a person or through their
voice, through theircommunication.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think there's a really nice thing that you honor
somebody with your flaws.
It shows trust, it showsvulnerability, and that's very
counterintuitive to the way weare societally, where when you
think about things, you thinkabout formalities, a certain
type of language, a certain typeof dress code and everything,
(03:23):
but in actual fact what you'redoing is you're putting up a big
shield and you're blockingsomebody from really seeing you,
really getting to know you.
So, yeah, I like the idea ofyou honor someone with your
flaws.
So, okay, nice introduction.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, a little intro.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Jake, how on earth do you describe yourself?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Interesting question.
I think we a lot of the timesinitially communicate what we do
is who we are and in some waysthat's important because that's
partially how society works.
We need to present ourselvesthrough some sort of profession
to increase, uh, stature, wealthand so forth, which is, you
(04:10):
know, partially important tohave a security in life of blah
blah blah.
And so I would have gonethrough a lot of different
identities.
I've done a lot of differentskills in my time and as I've
moved more into the realms ofpaint, the kind of overarching
(04:32):
tag of being an artist seemsvery fitting because obviously
artistry can be across reallyanything.
You know, it's a very broadterm.
Of course, when we thinkartists we do think the kind of
standard fine art mediumsculpture, painting and so forth
, photography maybe, but reallyartistry or creativity can go
(04:56):
through all medium.
But I would definitely identifyand present myself as an artist
if I was going to create anoverarching singular identity of
myself.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I've wanted to interview you for ages.
My first moment of meeting youwas hilarious.
It was at my partner's birthday, where her cake came out.
Everybody's singing happybirthday and she's just about to
blow her cake out.
You about like everybody'ssinging happy birthday, she's
just about to blow her cake outand you jump in and blow out the
candle.
I was like this is a veryinteresting person.
I've never even met someonethat would think of doing that,
(05:35):
and every time I've kind of comein contact with you since it's,
there's been such, let's say,different engagements, different
reflections that you'd share,different things that you'd
express.
And I'm sitting here in yourhome and I'm looking at it and
it's so uniquely you.
There's so much thought,there's so much depth, there's
(05:58):
so much character everywhere,everywhere, and I, when I said
this to you earlier, but I feltit was really confronting,
because in seeing the amount ofdepth and the amount of
character in your space, Isuddenly see, recognize the lack
of it in certain areas of mine,and I, I'm so curious, just
like you know what you, what wekind of talked about there in
(06:20):
terms of like you, really, whenyou share yourself with somebody
, when you take down the they'dsay the bullshit facade of,
let's say, perhaps for a manwearing the suit, or doing his
hair a certain way, orexpressing yourself in the kind
of the the set okay wayssocially and you actually just
show up as you are flaws and all.
(06:42):
There's a huge trust, there's ahuge honor that you're sharing
and it my kind of my gutinstinct is that that doesn't
come that naturally, althoughit's you very naturally.
There's probably a huge amountof work learning to let yourself
be free and and truly expressyourself hmm, yeah, that's nice,
I think.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I think it might have been Picasso that spoke to the
idea that, as a mature adultartist, the pursuit is to
rediscover a childishness,expectation or a sense of reward
(07:24):
or outcome which, in allhonesty, is impossible.
You know, once we kind of gobeyond the age of eight, the way
that the the brain developsdoesn't really allow us to do
that, and it's kind of a safetymechanism right, it's a survival
mechanism, but of it'ssomething that we can train and
(07:47):
tap into and explore, and Iwould argue that I'm someone
that is naturally aperfectionist.
Through my upbringing, maybeparents and but also society in
general, I think, coming fromthe UK, maybe that has a partial
influence as well and assomeone who is now older, the
(08:17):
pursuit of being more playfuland kind of letting go and
creating systems to allow me toembrace unknown, make time for
the unknown, enjoy imperfectionand so forth, and so in my art
(08:38):
specifically but I do do this ina variety of different ways,
but I feel like art is just sucha obvious representation of of
this.
I select certain processes thatforces me to not be in control,
for example, pouring orsplashing or throwing or soaking
, as much as you have a generalidea.
Let's say, I pour down thecanvas, I know it's going to go
(08:59):
down, but how you know?
What kind of route is it goingto go?
And you could argue thatsomewhat like life, like we
could choose maybe a career path, but we don't know exactly how
that path is going to navigateand actually we might even
choose another path in thefuture, of course.
Um, but yeah, I'm continuouslychallenging myself, uh, with
(09:19):
that matter, because I have seenthe benefits, because it does
spill into other areas of mylife.
I always like that phrase ofthe way you do anything is the
way you do everything, and Ithink it's somewhat true.
I mean, there's kind of a grayarea between different areas of
your life and so forth, but theydo spill over 100%.
(09:41):
So the work is a very nice, theartwork's a very nice medium
and process that can be veryconfronting and very rewarding.
You know, therapeutic and, yeah, that's that.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I kind of as you were speaking there.
It's funny how kind ofperspective sometimes just comes
.
So I'm actually remembering mylast birthday that I spent at
home about to blow out mycandles.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
By the way, on the candles thing no, but you made
me sound like a dick.
No, you weren't actually.
Do you know the context of it?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm recognizing the genius in it.
My eight-year-old niece pushedme out of the way and blew out
my candles and I'm like, do youknow what it's funny when she
did it.
It's so playful and so sweetand so fun and I was like, yeah,
it's, it's weird we're allobsessed with taking things so
bloody seriously and we're allobsessed with presenting
ourselves so perfectly when inactual fact, that's just not
(10:42):
true and and actually expressingour messiness is again, it's
just refreshing itself.
To me, it's actually the nicestthing you can do with someone
and then the playfulness and theturning worlds upside down and
and taking the taking, the um,the boringness out of life.
In terms of this, like I thinkfor some reason there's this
(11:04):
instinctive want for so many ofus to kind of have such order
and such a linear, like approachto life, safety and we wonder
why we're bored we wonder whywe're depressed and it's like
come on, enjoy a little bit ofspice so an actual fact.
I'm starting to appreciate thatmoment more and more.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
But give me the context behind the scene I don't
know the context, I can't evenremember, but I would love there
must been.
I would say I'm someone thatlikes to play with humor.
Yeah, I think it's a veryinteresting way to communicate.
I would argue that sometimes itgets me into trouble, you know,
dependent on company and timing.
(11:43):
But I think if it's somethingthat you're interested in, you
do have to take risks and a lotof time with comedy.
Speed is is one of your, one ofthe main components.
Like it has to be deliveredquite instantaneously and I'm
sure there was some sort ofsetup or I don't.
I've never, that I can remember, ever just blown someone's
(12:06):
candles out.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I actually I love what you said there because the
amount of times like I've, let'ssay, let my guard down, felt
really free, felt like such funrunning through me and been
having so much fun with thegroup.
And then, of course, I go astep too far, yeah, and I upset
the apple cart and, and,unfortunately, as a result you
(12:27):
know, I didn't, I didn't justlearn to be like, ah, you know,
sometimes shit happens I'm sorryand get it and just continue on
be me.
In those moments I locked upparts of me and so much of my
personal journey has beenlearning to open those parts
back up and perhaps learn how toexpress myself in the moment or
deal with the situations thatunfold in this, in it and harm
(12:50):
this way, so that I can be moreme.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
But it feels like this is my projection here, but
it's like society has justlocked itself up so much that
it's very sterilized and it'svery boring and in actual fact,
there's a real need fordisruptors and rebels and
playmakers and messers, to shakethings up a little bit so that
we don't get too uniformed andtoo boring and too depressed
(13:18):
yeah, yeah, I agree, I think, um, I wouldn't put myself in the
uh, I would say I'm somewhere inthe middle, regarding the kind
of two archetypes, and I quitelike that intelligent ways to
(13:41):
break rules that can be very um,what's the words?
What's the word I want?
Kind of caring to other people,you know, um, respectful to
your surroundings.
I think a lot of rule breakersunfortunately not unfortunately,
maybe even maybe necessarily uh, have to upset and, um, you
(14:02):
know, to carve a new way.
But I don't think that'snecessarily my place and I think
you can still walk your ownpath while you know caring and
supporting and being mindful ofother people's paths and kind of
(14:23):
being empathetic of the peoplearound you, and that's
definitely something that I'vehad to develop over time empathy
and understanding and lovingthe people around me, and I
think that's become I thinkthat's become very important and
like, coming back to humor, youknow we have this, this kind of
phrase of like I'm just beingmyself, but yourself is just a
(14:48):
curation from your upbringingand and so forth.
Yourself is the, you know, theego that you present.
This, this just yourself thatyou believe you are, is not
truly you.
It's being created in the waythat you can create, you can.
You can develop any sense of uhway that you can create.
You can develop any sense ofpersona that you would like, and
so being less attached to this,like this is me, is something
(15:11):
that I try to work on.
And, you know, if you lovecertain people around you, I
think you can somewhat let go ofthat Because, of course,
there's an enjoyment with theidentity that you create.
Hopefully, you know, hopefullyyou're enjoying what you're
doing.
Um, you know the, you know thethings that you offer to your
(15:31):
community, if that be humor orintelligence or whatever
component.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Uh, love, care when you're sharing that.
What's coming up for me isobviously that line humor is the
highest form of intellect andwe we can be our lazy selves or
we can be our highest selves.
And I think, when I kind oflook back on my journey, what
was a big part of learning was,like jay, you can be yourself,
but you have to learn how to,how to deal with consequences
(15:59):
how to do how to be yourselfrespectfully, like.
I really like what you sharedthere, like learning to be
yourself whilst being respectfuland empathetic to those that
you're around, and learn to likeand to play fine lines and
edges and it it somewhatmagically seems to reflect
itself in your heart.
Actually, yeah, you weresharing of, like when you're
(16:21):
pouring or when you're soaking,you're kind of letting
creativity flow.
Yeah, you're letting thingsflow, but there is an art to
making it something beautifulrather than just an obvious, big
mess.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, that's nice, that's exactly it.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's an intentionbehind it that when you view the
work, there's an understandingthat it has been somewhat
curated and it's beautifully puttogether.
I like this idea of idealism,idealism within nature, that we
(16:59):
have the components of nature.
Let's imagine you're looking ata landscape.
In an idealistic world.
It would be the idea that Icould then move them around,
like, ah, them four trees wouldactually look better here, and
if we just change the angle ofthat mountain a little bit, it'd
be more balanced.
And in some ways, you know, myart represents landscapes.
(17:22):
I think they could representother things, but I think
there's a connection tolandscape and I think that's
partly it.
I'm kind of through dreams,through memories and my
surroundings, nature itself.
(17:44):
I think what I'm doing ispulling components together, if
that be shapes, colors and soforth, to create something that
is, from my point of view,beautiful, you know, like
something that it feels.
Feels, you know, there's a anemotional connection to it.
Um, so yeah, no, it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I I'm really curious.
It's like a real cliche coachingquestion okay I like you in
doing what you do now and, likeobserving your life as it is now
, do you want me asking, whenyou look back on your journey to
where you are, what you thinkwas, like, the biggest catalyst
that like pushed you into thisspace of creative creativity and
(18:30):
art?
You know, we, like we're really, you know some.
I'm sitting here in your homeand I can see so much of it is
thought out.
You're obviously like, when itcame to recording this, you're
like, look, I want to do thislive.
I want to have the airconditioning on and back, I want
to have, like, I want it to bea proper insight in, like, these
are all very creative, thoughtout decision, decisions.
It's reflected in everythingyou do.
(18:51):
So what's, yeah, what you thinkpushed you on your way to where
you are now?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I think, like a lot of people, there's multiple
components right as you as youmove through your, through your
life and you look back, and thenthere's these kind of key
decisions or moments in timethat then have created the
person that you are.
I got an art degree in fine artand paint and print and I
(19:21):
remember that time.
Reflecting now, I was very much, you know, a young boy that
didn't have the sense ofdirection or confidence to
pursue that.
I think any young talent or anyyoung person that's out there
that is willing to share theirwork is unbelievable.
(19:44):
I definitely wasn't able to do,I couldn't.
I couldn't imagine puttingmyself out there like that.
I think also, financially, Ihad zero security, so the the
need to need to have moneyinstantaneously was there.
So I moved to graphics and youknow I worked on that for a very
long time and you know that'skind of 13, 14 years now until
(20:07):
today.
I, through that journey, alsofound yoga.
I became a yoga teacher and theyoga teacher allowed me to find
my voice.
There's kind of there's manythings that yoga gave me.
It's not something that Inecessarily practice now, things
that yoga gave me.
(20:27):
It's not something that Inecessarily practice now, but it
allowed me to travel the worldand it definitely gave me the
confidence to speak freely andto, you know, to large groups
and so forth, and that wasdefinitely a skill that I did
not have and I think I thinkthat's a huge, huge component.
You know, kind of seven yearsof my life, it was full time for
me and time.
So now, you know, just kind ofthinking about M-Components, I
have the design agency still, sothat's kind of a sense of
(20:51):
security there, and you know, Ihave multiple other businesses
as well.
But because of that, because ofage and because of, I think, the
development of characterthrough teaching, has allowed me
to come back to paint.
So now I've been painting foraround two years, I would say
(21:11):
somewhat consistently, andtrying to remember who I was at,
say, early 20s to now coming upto mid 30s, is a drastic,
drastic shift that allows me tofeel very content and very
confident to produce this work,with not necessarily needing an
(21:34):
outcome.
Of course, I would love to shareit to people, to purchase it,
to present it to the world,maybe to live beyond me and to
continuously be a catalyst forme to develop my own personality
and inject creativity into mylife, which obviously is amazing
because, again, if I addcreativity here, I'm going to
add creativity there, you know.
I mean that's the beautifulthing about doing multiple
(21:58):
ventures they all inspire eachother.
You know, I'll learn somethingover in graphics that can come
over to paint.
I learn something to paint thatallows me to maybe move over to
movement, you know, or my youknow, a build or whatever it may
be.
Um so, obviously a very simplecompressed uh version, but I
(22:20):
would say they're kind of acouple of key components that
allowed me to get to where I am.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Okay, so what's coming up for me is so.
What I heard, first andforemost is actually you really
wanted to be an artist,originally speaking, right?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, yeah, so we go back a little bit earlier.
I sucked at school.
Actually it's still.
There's a deep-rooted pain whenit comes to education and,
specifically, language.
It was a very weak skill set ofmine and it's always what I
(22:55):
believe, held me back.
You know a belief of mine.
But if you look in a differentway, what it forced me to do is
basically choose art.
I had no choice.
I know so many people that werelike they didn't know where to
go.
They were kind of okay ateverything or even good at
everything, and I had no choice.
(23:16):
I was like I was good at art, Iwas well good, maybe is even
pushing it, but I was reallyshit at everything else.
So in comparison, I wasdefinitely good.
So I went to school for art andthen I had parents that
somewhat were traditional andwould have loved me to continue
schooling and never forced.
But in all honesty, I alwaysfelt very young and behind other
(23:39):
people, so I wasn't ready toreally go out into the real
world.
So I went to college, did art,loved it.
I really kind of found mypassion in college because if
you've been through artschooling, the transition from
you know 13 to 16 in secondaryschool it's all about.
You most likely get a goodgrade, especially in.
(24:00):
I've talked to my school, but Ithink it's quite common.
If you can copy well, then whenyou move into college, it's kind
of starting to promote that.
It doesn't matter aboutduplicating, it's all about
expressing.
So that was a very difficulttransition.
And then I went to universityand continued to do so, but I
(24:26):
couldn't see the end of thetunnel being if I keep making
this work, I can make money.
Social media was just coming in.
I think Maybe, yeah, just Ithink, like maybe Instagram just
popped up, but I didn't have it.
So the idea of like, using asocial media platform to promote
your work was Just not done.
That would have been insanelyrare, I imagine.
Yeah, so graphics seem to makesense because what I can do is
(24:51):
find a client, the client tellsme what to do, I create, they
give me the money, and stillsomewhat creative.
But it's a creative pursuit tosolve business problems right,
which I still love.
I think it's amazing and Ithink the two can work and build
a very rounded, nearly even arounded person, but definitely a
rounded offering.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So yeah, when I think about your art, where you you
said look, I create my art likeI've kind of covered my boxes
with my other kind of venturesand I'm creating my art really
just as my own creativeexpression.
I'm not really creating them tosell.
There's something for me thatkind of thinks that really art
should never be created to sell.
Yeah, that we should that whenit comes to creating art, it
(25:59):
should.
It should actually be that likeand sorry, this is me, my
influence but like I love theidea that something isn't
created to sell, to be sold,it's just an expression from the
heart and I kind of think thatthere is a lot of art online
that is shared and sorry that iscreated solely with the
intention of being sold and Ikind of think like, yeah, it
ticks a box and that's grand andeverything like that.
But there's something I justlove about art being created
just for the sake of it, notwith a financial intention in
mind.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yes, of course there's a beauty there.
I think one would argue there'smaybe a sweet spot again where
and this will now speak tobuilding a team and finding the
right people in your life If youcan find someone to support you
, where the artist can createfor the sake of creating, in
(26:37):
essence, and very much be intheir creative flow and produce
and go through that journey ofexploration and creativity and
expression, storytelling,whatever it may be, and then you
have someone else that, inessence, tells you, maybe,
(26:58):
potentially, when it's finished,or when it is finished, they
take it and they distribute itBecause, of course, if you're
creating something so beautifuland so raw, it would be crazy
for someone not to enjoy thatyou know to, to not live a long
life, to not be savored and, um,protected and looked after and
(27:18):
uh.
So, if you can get someone tosupport you, to share your
message or sell your work, um,then there will be this
separation, then that allows theartist to be the artist and the
salesman, in essence, to be thesalesman.
And I think that, for me, in ifyou want to be an artist, that
it becomes your profession, um,because there's a beauty in it
(27:42):
becoming your profession,there's a magic.
Of course, there's also a magicin doing it for the sake of
doing it, um, but there'ssomething also very beautiful,
uh, with the purpose of, of, ofsharing it with the world, you
know, with creating, with theidea that you are an artist, it
is your profession, it is youridentity.
(28:02):
I think there's a, a greaterpotential, uh, purpose and depth
to what you're offering outinto the world.
But, unfortunately, a lot oftime you'll get saturated with
the need to sell.
You have, like, a lack of funds, a lack of security.
So I think, if you're a, for methat seems like a sweet spot.
(28:26):
Of course it could be a personselling.
Also, you could work withgalleries.
There's a few other variables,of course, but I think, if you
can find that, which isn't easy,um, it could take a long time,
but I think, I think that'swhere a lot of magic is there
yeah, I I actually recognize itkind of entered into a subject
that's, I can imagine, so fullof opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Um, I actually love to bring it.
You back to what you justshared originally about that.
You know, almost like forces ofschool and stuff encouraging
you towards art, like for me,when I heard that, I remembered
I really wanted to be a coachwhen I was like 16, 17.
But in actual fact when Iexpressed it it was kind of met
(29:09):
with a bit of shame of, oh God,you don't want to do that and I
went off on a whole journey,only to come back to this.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I'm so happy about the journey because obviously it
puts depth and puts perspectivein and everything, but I think
it's I love that you kind ofadmired that for those that can
express themselves artisticallyfrom a young age like, wow,
credit to them, because it'shighly vulnerable.
I think, yeah, I think, andeven if we go back to the very
(29:40):
start of our conversation withregards to actually just being
your raw, authentic self,learning to be respectful of
that and empathetic, but notputting up this guard, yeah,
lots is kind of coming up for mein that regard.
I'm curious if you got to againa very cliche coaching question
, you ready If you got to talkto your 18, 19?
(30:00):
year old self in college, nowwith the head on your shoulders
that you have any tips, any bitsthat you'd share, any pearls of
wisdom.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
There's different perspectives on this.
One of if it's as in the setup.
One is I wouldn't changeanything because I'm exactly who
I am at the exact right timeand I'm exactly where I'm
supposed to be.
And I think that's an idea thatI've ingrained in myself over
(30:31):
time, because we get to chooseright.
We get to choose how weperceive the world and how we
move through it and how we feelwe can kind of control that.
To a certain extent, I feellucky with the life that I've
been offered.
There's a privilege there aswell I have to, uh, be thankful
(30:52):
for.
But so that would be one angle.
The other angle, let's just sayit was another 18 year old that
was in the same position as me.
What would I offer them?
Because then there's like aslight separation.
Nice, um, oh, it's a goodquestion, because I think it's
so.
You've got to tap into theuniqueness of the person.
(31:12):
You got to feel into them.
You know, like are they unsure?
But you can see they have apassion and a talent and I want
to like, encourage, inspire thatand maybe present them with
encouragement or inspirationfrom other things that I've I've
been inspired by in my own life, or maybe I noticed that
(31:36):
they're not ready and actually abreak or a separation or time
to let go of this identity thatthey maybe felt pressure with
such a long time and they'reable to come back to it.
So I think it's really case bycase, and maybe through my yoga
teaching past, that's somethingthat I've enjoyed really kind of
(32:06):
feeling into the nuances of.
It's not what you say, it's howyou say, and I think that would
be part of that as well, but Ithink that's a very you know,
you as a coach is kind ofbasically what you're doing,
right, in essence, it's your job, and I experienced that a
little bit through yoga.
You know, as a yoga teacher,there is opportunities of
(32:27):
coaching in essence, you know,potentially depending on what
kind of teacher you want to beand so forth, but that that
shows up as well.
But I was, if I was gonna belike a little bit more
overarching and vague, andsomething that I think is very
powerful is make time for theunknown, and I think that I just
love that idea and it's alwaysserved me so well
(32:50):
retrospectively, the time whereyou can book in time for nothing
.
You know, maybe travel is agreat example of that.
Less so now when I travel Ididn't have a phone so we can
kind of be connected.
In essence working, but yeah,opportunities to experience
something new, to get newinformation, to have space to
(33:12):
learn, to develop, to newexperiences to come up, for me
that's powerful and I still doit now.
And you know, maybe in the pastit might have been a whole year
off but now it potentiallycould be just a day or a weekend
up in the mountains.
You know it can be shorterperiods of time that can still
be very impactful.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
um, yeah, so yeah, I remember when I was like oh so
when should we do this podcast?
And you're like whenever youwant.
I was like what you're like?
Yeah, whenever you want.
I have nothing in my scheduleand again, pretty confronting
for me who I have like a fairlychock-a-block schedule and I
recognize that oftentimes thatschedule interferes with
spontaneity, and it's in thosemoments where I do get a bit of
(33:53):
time and freedom that actually Ifind great solutions to
problems.
And there's the kind of the thethought are we?
Are we scheduling ourselves umaway from the idea that we've
been searching for?
are the perspective that wouldchange everything, and so I love
that.
Like you know, if I was goingto share a little bit of advice
(34:15):
with somebody, look, this is theone I'm taking from.
What you shared is like maketime to just actually live and
open up and see what unfolds,and I always say when I'm
working with clients we're goingto move you from a way uh sorry
, from living reactively to bemore proactive and um and the
(34:38):
kind of the insight into thereactive living is somebody that
gets up and is essentiallychasing their day and
apologizing to everybody on theway for being a little bit late
which so many of us findourselves in that state so
often, and in the proactive I'mgenerally like, oh you know, get
scheduling and all that.
But I think the step beyondthat is actually where, no,
you've you've made really gooddecisions that allow for things
(35:00):
to flow without the constantneed to be engaging with you and
you've given yourself notcreated for yourself greater
freedom and through that freedom.
That's where you can start tomake real impact.
I love that You're the firstperson that's ever, when I've
asked that question, created thedivide.
(35:20):
Some have said, oh, I wouldn'twant to change anything because
I'm happy where I'm at, which Ialways feel is quite a cliche,
safe answer, and it's the onethat is professed, that you
should be so happy with whereyou're at, um.
But there is real, valid truthin it.
But the night, I like the wayyou detached it so you could
punch in and kind of give, give,give advice without um, let's
(35:42):
say, interrupting the very flowof life that you've had.
Thank you, yeah it's very cool.
It um.
One thing I I loved, like Iloved about this podcast was it
gave me the opportunity to,let's say, almost deep dive into
people's life, people's lifephilosophy, and because we can
(36:03):
get very stuck on our own andand naturally, of course, we're
living our lives, so we thinkthe way we're living is best,
and it is so fascinating for meto get insights into other
people's lives, to see howthey're living, what they're
doing differently, and I kind offeel, yeah, everybody has these
kind of foundational pillars interms of how they live their
(36:27):
life.
What I'm getting from you iscreate space and time for what
might come, spontaneity and toreally live, um, to take your
time and and and reallyintentionally live like you are
not living in someone else'scurated, interiorly designed
(36:49):
space.
You have created your home andit is an expression of your life
, like it is an artist's studio.
It's fantastic, fantastic.
I'm.
I'm curious.
Does anything else come up thatyou're like jamie, how have you
missed this about me and thisis my philosophy for life?
Does anything else kind of popup?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
well, maybe let's just start with that kind of.
Obviously we learn a lot aboutthe day.
We want to live the week, wewant to live the month, we want
to live the year we want to live, and we create these different
components.
You're definitely right that Icreate a life that allows for
opportunity for for um variablesto come in.
(37:32):
So my morning somewhat in themorning could be arguably four
to five hours will be me wakingup and moving into creating in
some form.
So I stay in the home, I stay inthe home and I'll do something.
I'll paint, I'll design.
There'll be some sort of maybeI look after the home, you know
(37:57):
if that be gardening or cleaningor you know various things you
know I like to.
There's kind of this sense ofI'm very productive in the
morning but I have no set thingthat I necessarily have to do.
Most of the time it's want, youknow, like a whatever kind of
I'm excited to do, like, let'ssay, I painted in the evening, I
(38:17):
might wake up and want to keepgoing.
I'm like I need to get this,this done.
Um, and with design work, youknow, there's somewhat of a time
schedule that is open but thatmight motivate me as well.
Um so a time to create yeahsection, let's call it section
one.
Then a time to um, connect,community insanely important, I
(38:43):
might say the most.
Um.
I've moved around my whole lifedad was in the army and this is
actually the longest I've everlived anywhere in my whole life
and the compound effect ofstaying in one location.
It's not something that I'velearnt before, so it's something
that's become more apparentrecently in my adult life.
(39:03):
And now I see I have somebusiness partners that are very
close friends of mine and we seeeach other every single day.
So we own a restaurant.
And now I see that I have somebusiness partners that are very
close friends of mine and we seeeach other every single day.
So we own a restaurant andbecause of that we see each
other every day and we seefriends and we see community
that we see every day.
So I eat and talk and connectand reflect, blah, blah, blah,
blah, and that's just such a.
(39:26):
So that's lunchtime, onewhatever, and it's such an
amazing time to it anchors myday.
It's there, it's boom, and thenI move.
So I move a bit.
Later in the day three, Iactually move with someone.
So another anchor.
I have to show up for them andI want to show up for me, of
course, but it's always easierto show up for someone else than
(39:46):
yourself.
I personally think I think alot of people would probably
also agree.
Um, of course it's amazing tobe able to show up for yourself,
but I would argue that it'smore effort.
Um, and then I move into theevening, and then the evening is
open again.
Could be continue to paint,create, design, but also there's
a lot of social elements in theevening as well, so that's also
(40:08):
open.
For that.
I can always say yes, if I wantto, I will.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
If I get invited to something, I probably will go if
I want to so, as you're sharingthis like what's coming coming
up for me and I, I love thatlike critiquing voice, it's like
, oh, you know that that's allwell, good for you.
You don't have the nine to fiveor the best of that and the
next, and there's been obviouslysome really strong decisions
for you.
Yes, in terms of not, uh, not,let's say, getting trapped.
Yes, and making sure that youcan live the life you want to
(40:37):
live.
How have you created thatfreedom?
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I left university.
We mentioned it yeah didn't wantto be an artist, scared.
Yeah, wanted to be a designer.
Yeah, I created a designportfolio very quickly, I think
within days, built a website andcreate, in essence, fake
projects.
They weren't for clients, but Ipresented them in a to
demonstrate my skills.
(41:03):
Yeah, and I had these skillsbecause I was actually using
photoshop to paint.
Yeah, and so what I would do ispaint on canvas and then take a
photograph.
I would Photoshop it and then Iwould copy the Photoshop
version back into paint and Iwould go back and forth and
that's how I developed the ideas.
It was really beautiful and atthe time, photoshop was quite
somewhat new.
It was in its infancy, I think.
(41:25):
Within the first five years, Ithink oh sorry, I just lost
track, so what was it again?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
No, you were talking about your expertise in terms of
how it kicked you off into thedesign side, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
So then I got a design job very quickly I think
actually like two days, it wasamazing Moved to London and then
I was full-time nine to fivegraphic designer for a company
where you're doing somewhatbasic graphic design work
adverts, updates, littlemarketing stuff.
Very quickly I realized this isnot going to work for me.
(42:01):
I did a multi.
This is good.
It's probably quite relevant,maybe to your audience as well.
I actually don't even know whoyour audience is.
I think you'll find it funny.
I think a lot of people haveread the Tim Ferriss book the
Four-Hour Workweek.
That's why I said it might berelevant.
One of the things on there hesays that he only answers emails
(42:21):
twice a day and he has anauto-reply on the email saying I
reply at this time only.
So I did the same thing, but Iwas in a company, he was running
his company, so the way thatpeople communicated within the
company was about 30 of us.
We would email each other.
Oh, jake, can you do this?
And then they get this autoreply saying oh, by the way, I
(42:41):
only answer my emails at 9 and 4pm.
And then obviously someonecomplained, went to the manager.
The manager came to me and hewas like actually, I like you
just did this without asking.
It's cool, we can see if itworks, but if it slows down
progress of the whole team,we're gonna have to stop it.
Of course, we did have to stopit, but I, I I'm like that he,
(43:02):
he knew the answer, yeah, but Ilike that he allowed me to
figure it out and I think thatwas a big eye-opener for me.
To be quite honest, I was likeI can't do the thing I want to
do, these things that are beingtold.
You know, I'm learning, I wantto integrate them and so I think
that might be one of the keyaspects.
So, within about six months, Iwas kind of done and I left in
eight and I went traveling likea lot of people do you know, a
(43:29):
lot of people do afterUniversity.
The reason I actually didn't doafter university and I remember
this, this idea is I trained tobe an artist and I quote
unquote failed and I wanted toprove to myself that I could be
this designer.
I don't want to just like, failat artistry and then just go
travel and I don't even know ifI had enough capital.
(43:50):
To be quite honest, that mighthave been partially also it.
So I think I did enough toprove to myself and also made a
bit of capital and also realizedI can't be doing this office
thing.
I went traveling.
I found yoga.
I did a yoga teacher training.
About two weeks later, the yogateacher training was my first
yoga class.
Did a yoga teacher trainingabout two weeks later.
(44:11):
The yoga teacher training wasmy first yoga class.
So I went straight into anashtanga teacher training, which
was obviously somewhat intensebut amazingly eye-opening.
And then I was on a journey forseven years of yoga.
But at the start of this thisis a really beautiful
integration that will kind ofshow you how I partially got to
where I am.
I met this really wonderful girlthat I still have distant
(44:33):
connection with.
You know.
We might say hey, now and againI remember her saying I was
this, was it?
I was drawing in class.
Again, I'm not very good atpaying attention in the anything
outside of the physical orcreative elements, so when we
were talking about history ofyoga and anatomy of yoga, I
(44:56):
turned off and what I ended updoing was drawing.
Predominantly at the time I wasdrawing geometric shapes.
I loved it and she also wasvery much an artist in spirit,
let's say very much a creativestill is.
And she said you should takephotographs of these and put
them on Instagram.
And I think I kind of replied Idon't really know what
(45:17):
Instagram is, I don't reallyhave one.
She showed me hers.
It was super cool, not likepolished, but just like her
being her, taking a few pictureshere and there, and that was it
.
I was then taking pictures ofdrawings and pictures of me
making yoga shapes.
Now we've got to think again.
This is like 10, nearly 15years ago.
(45:38):
The whole yoga thing onInstagram had great demand and
great traction and I ended upbecoming a yoga teacher and a
graphic designer, becoming ayoga teacher and a graphic
design graphic designer.
So what?
What was the niche?
And it just happened for me, inessence is other yoga teachers
or yoga industry would messageme because they believed that I
had the skill to develop logosand various other branding
(46:02):
elements to support their yogabusiness.
Because there's thisinterconnectivity and connection
.
And I remember posting thefirst logo on instagram, you
know whatever.
100 followers, 500 followers.
I don't know what I had by thistime.
Um, I had another job in a week, then I had another job in a
week and then I then I kind oflike, oh, maybe I should like
figure out pricing and maybehave a pdf and like make an
(46:24):
email template.
You know how it is like I waskind of developing out that
business.
At the same time I was gettinganother yoga class oh, can you
teach here?
And that eventually turned intoa workshop.
And then I was designing maybethe advertisements for workshops
for other studios and I wastaking the photography for them
studios and I was building theirwebsite and then I was teaching
for them.
So there was this big whirlwindof the yoga supported the
(46:48):
design, the design supported theyoga and that was basically
give or take seven years ofgrowth with the two things
became one.
That was my job.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I was a yoga designer sorry, I, I I'm remembering
back to when instagram firststarted it was so artistic and
cool ah, yeah, full of loads ofphotographers, full of loads of
artists.
Very, you know, it's actuallyamazing how fast trends move now
, um, but how and how fastplatforms develop and everything
(47:20):
like that, but at the veryoriginal time, instagram was
such a creative outlet forpredominantly artists.
Um, I love just hearing aboutyour journey, how I always think
life is teaching us all thetime, obviously, um, but most of
us are resisting the lessons,and if you can only listen, um,
(47:42):
and refine accordingly, youstart to progress through things
really fast, and so I love,like you're reading tim ferris
and he's talking, talking aboutscheduling your time for
responding to messages yeahrecognize that the environment
doesn't really allow for that.
So you change environments, youfind yourself in yoga space.
It's funny.
I always felt yoga was a big umlike vehicle, almost to connect
(48:05):
more with myself and to buildmore confidence in myself, and I
pull the elements of what youshared, you talked about, like
yoga allowed me to kind of buildyour, build your confidence
build your creativity, buildyour communication skills.
Um, it's funny how that I findthat question of like when you
just reflect back.
It's very cliche on steve jobskind of saying connect the dots
(48:29):
looking back but you really cansee how little events shaped and
pushed you on to where you areright now.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
And so, really, what you've just been doing is you've
consciously been showing upmost days and seeing what's
working for you, doing more ofthat, and what's not, and
working to do less of that.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
And just through process of following that
journey, you find yourselfwaking up in an environment that
is your own, doing work that'syour own.
You're also a massive believerin partnerships yes, big, big,
big, big yeah so you recognizeyour own weaknesses, your own
areas that perhaps need strength, and you partner up to give
(49:08):
yourself space yes yeah 100% andI would say that's the the main
catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I've known it for longer but really been able to
like see it and feel it wascoming together and building the
restaurant with two of mypartners there and we're a
beautiful harmony.
It's crazy the how the threecomponents of us came together.
If you're interested in kind ofarchetype systems from human
(49:39):
designs to star signs to 16personalities you know all these
different things.
Um, we all dabble in thesethings when none of us are kind
of attached to them or kind ofheavily educated in them.
But if you look at them at asurface level, we have an
amazing harmony between all ofthese different systems.
(50:00):
It's very, very cool and that'ssomething we looked at
afterwards.
It wasn't like, oh, let's checkthat we're going to work
together.
It was more like, wow, this isamazing.
And actually it might have beenlike a friend comes in like oh,
what are you guys, do you know?
And they were like they seethat we're doing so well, and
then they're interested.
So actually that's how it'shappened.
It wasn't even it was none ofus that brought it up.
It was another third party thatwould come in, you know, and
(50:22):
maybe a friend of a friend andso forth, but that's amazing.
When that happens and I don'tknow if this is something that
just came to me or maybe wastold or overheard Even if this
business doesn't work or we foldit in the future or whatever it
(50:44):
may be, the business is not theimportant thing and it's not
the hard thing.
The hard thing is having theright partners.
If you have the right partners,even if a business fails,
you'll be able to create anotherbusiness and do something else
together.
You know there's this, like alot of people will relate to.
We've all gone through avariety of romantic partners.
(51:05):
We've been through a variety offriends.
Most likely, and obviously wechange and develop as humans and
unfortunately, sometimes thatdoesn't align with how other
people grow and we we godifferent directions and so
forth.
Um, so to be able to find thatunison and that strength within
a friendship partnership, Ithink is is very magical and I'm
(51:26):
very, I feel feel veryfortunate for that, because it's
also it's very much a, there'sa warmth of something that feels
like a family.
You know, beyond just a surfacelevel business relationship,
it's something that is a lotmore warm.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, I'm thinking about this kind of societal norm
that's out there at the moment,which is that we should be very
independent beings.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
And I think that is so unhelpful because
unfortunately, we are actuallyvery limited beings when we
really look at ourselvesproperly in the mirror.
We can be great at some thingsand we can be awful at others,
and I think a lot of peopletorture themselves trying to be
great at everything and it's asure fast way, I think, to get
(52:14):
you nowhere, whereas if you canrecognize your limitations and
you can actually start to seethe brilliance in others.
Take, for example, therestaurant that you went into.
It's hilarious.
In Bali there are so manyrestaurants.
You go into your place Sundaysand you can see that there's
such an enormous level of detailand there's a lot of detail in
other places, but there's veryobviously a lot of care and
(52:37):
attention to detail in terms oflike the mug, the saucer the
tray, the table, the chair, themenu.
There's real, obvious depth andlove, which is exactly what's
shared in your home, where inBali there's a lot of cookie
cutter homes because there's somany builders just throwing out,
throwing out places, whereashere there's there's so much
(52:57):
bloody attention to detail.
here and it's, um, it's verystimulating and I can see that,
yeah, when it comes to therestaurant, no doubt they
partner with somebody like youand you bring a heart and soul
to the place, you bring a warmthto it and I, um, I feel that
there's there's such a value in,in partnerships.
(53:18):
I I find that when I'm stressed,when I'm out of sorts, I
isolate and I, I, I really feelalone in those, in those moments
, and it's so silly becausethose are the very moments I
should be leaning into othersaround me and I think we as,
let's say, people.
My projection, my belief isthat we are all isolating at the
moment and wondering why we'refeeling so lonely, so depressed,
so out of sorts.
(53:39):
In actual fact, if we couldjust learn to lean into others
that little bit more and, yes,it is hard to relate, we all
learn those lessons throughfriendships and through
partnerships but if we canovercome the blocks and learn to
connect that little bit more, Ithink there's such strength in
it, there's such growth, there'sso much of it.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (54:03):
I could waffle the ears off people with you for
quite some time, but, jake,thank you for having a chat
together.
If somebody wanted to followyou or connect with you, what's
the best way?
Speaker 1 (54:12):
the best way is definitely instagram, so my
handle is jake underscore paulunderscore white.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
It's great last name, thank you pleasure.
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