The University of Life & Marc Laws

Imagine being caught between the drive for success and the need for peace—that’s the journey Mark and I explore as we dive into fatherhood, authenticity, and personal growth.

We start by discussing the courage it takes to stay true to yourself in relationships, challenging traditional ideas of masculinity through personal stories that highlight the strength in vulnerability. Mark’s thoughts on fatherhood reveal how relationships, especially with children, teach us about presence and love.

As we navigate relationships, we discover that mindfulness is a powerful tool. We share stories about choosing partners who reflect the values we hold dear and how offering grace during conflicts can lead to growth rather than division.

Our conversation then shifts to flow states, especially in sports, where the connection between mind and body offers life-changing perspectives. These states, often rooted in childhood, give us tools to face life’s challenges.

We also explore the link between sports, yoga, and personal evolution, drawing parallels between self-awareness in soccer and the philosophies of yoga, using technology to aid in self-reflection.

Mark reflects on his journey from the busy streets of London to the calm of Bali, illustrating how finding balance between ambition and peace isn’t just geographical but also an important life lesson in aligning drive with the natural flow of life.

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If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.

I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.

Thank you for listening, Jamie x

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nothing to apologize for.
Where are?
We at.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Mark, I'm noticing when I'm trying to interview you
I'm almost having a panicattack in front of you.
I actually feel intimidatedsitting in front of you about to
do a podcast together.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's hard to believe man no not at all.
We're so close, you know.
Yeah, it's funny, right?
It's because of the device,isn't it?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is what we were talking about earlier.
I think it's half the device andthe other part is like I think
there's like, okay, aconversation with somebody is
very sacred.
You sit in front of them andand like you open your heart.
And one thing that, like I'venoticed every time I sit down in
front of you is that likethere's a real sacredness of

(00:45):
which you meet.
Is that like there's a realsacredness of which you meet
somebody with a real presence, areal connection, and there's a
bit of a kind of swing to thiswhen it's like, okay, I'm just
going to click record and youhave no idea who's listening in.
No idea what kind of judgingears are that?
And it's a, it's a.
I suppose there's a bigvulnerability out.
Yeah, but anyway, it's apleasure to get to do this with

(01:07):
you.
So thank you massively.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, likewise man, and for you, sharing so
authentically.
That's, I think that's whatkeeps us so connected is there's
so much truth in the air yeahyeah, it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, I again a little.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's again a little bit wobbly but I love that
because it's so courageous to beable to share, like our inner
thoughts and our process andwhat we're actually going
through, like this truth thatI'm talking about.
That I'm aiming to practice asmuch as possible, you know,
thanks to my father, of justlike being challenged to do that

(01:49):
in his generation, wherethey're like no, you got to hide
these things, and that's what aman is and that's what strong
is right.
Don't show your feelings, don'tshare your emotions, don't
share any of your weaknessesweaknesses, quote-unquote to now
, like two men sitting in frontof each other being like fuck,
this is what's really happeningfor me, man.
And it's like fuck, I love you,man, thank you, like me too,

(02:09):
and it's like you know, andeverybody gets to grow from that
now I understand my nerves.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
I remember describing you uh to someone and saying,
mark, it's probably one of themost embodied natural coaches
I've come across, in that heshows up with a presence that
commands presence and truth, asin when he asks you a question.
You don't want to bullshit him.
You know he can see throughyour bullshit, and so to be

(02:36):
sitting in here about to have achat and clicking record, I'm
like, oh God, what have I done?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
I hope you know there's no judgment.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, but it is actually a lovely quality to
have that when you show up withsomebody, you really show up.
And you know, I rememberchatting to, actually, james,
who I recently interviewed and Ikind of joked with him.
I was like I'm about as busy assomebody could be without two
kids and as I sit here from viewand I recognize like you've a

(03:09):
lot of plates spinning, a lotgoing on in your world, but
regardless, when you show up,there's no distraction.
You show up in full presenceand and it's, it's, it's very
special.
It's also a yeah, it's veryspecial, but it's also, yeah,
it's very unique.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah, I think I definitely thank my kids for
that as well.
I thought I was really presentbefore them, but now even more
present, I feel, because of them, like back to the whole love
thing, because I love them somuch, I want to be present.
And then when I am and I wakeup, sometimes it's just looking

(03:45):
in their eyes when they'reasking just to play, and I'm so
like busy in my mind of like Igot things to do and blah, blah,
blah, and it's just like, ohshit, you just, you just want to
play with me, you just want mearound, that's it, that's all
they're asking for all the timeand I'm just like I have so much
to learn from you.
Thank you so much.
So that's like I talked.
I talked about my first son,because I have two sons now.
One's nine months and the otherone is four years, sage, and I

(04:09):
feel like sage is my the firstchild, is the one who initiates
the family into family, likethey have to take on all, all
the stuff, the transition fromwoman to mother, the transition
from man to father, but it hasto be fully accepted, otherwise
there's going to be a lot ofchallenges for the man to father

(04:31):
, which I can truly speak from.
I'm just like, oh, my old lifeand all the time I had and all
those things are just like beingat peace with them and be like,
okay, it's, that's done.
That person doesn't existanymore except through the
experiences that get to comewith me.
But that's, that's no longer mylifestyle, and it's just

(04:51):
amazing how I guess the wishesthat I had to be the best man
that I could possibly be couldbe in the dharma or the purpose
of being a father.
That's the most enrichingexperience that I've ever had.
Nothing competes out ofanything that I've done, any
spiritual awakening or anythinglike that.
It's like this is like itallows me in real time to see

(05:12):
where I'm really at Versus, liketaking on concepts and
philosophies, and maybe somemedicine, which is probably
number two.
Actually, I'd go childrennumber one, wife number two,
plant medicine number three,three, and then everything else
after that as my greatestteachers, greatest teachers,
yeah, yeah, my parents, ofcourse, as well, but like

(05:34):
currently, right now, in thesemoments, these, these past few
years that have been around,it's profound.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, I can imagine as you see your kids come to
life and you see your kidsreflect parts of you.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Oh god, so confronting such a catalyst for
growth in those moments, yeah,yeah, yeah we were talking about
that earlier when we werehaving a coffee before and, um,
like yesterday, I was uh, I wasfeeling like a nugget of, I
guess, anger, a bit of stress,overthinking, and I took that

(06:15):
into my morning and just thingscompounded where I just wanted
peace.
Just things compound where Ijust wanted peace.
And then, at a moment where mylovely wife came in to check in
if I wanted anything like acoffee, as simple as that.
But as she asked the question,she just kind of walked away and
didn't listen to my answer, I'mjust like I don't appreciate

(06:38):
when you do that.
But it didn't come out that way, it came out a little bit
sharper.
I'm just like why do you dothat?
That?
You do that more than once.
You know like we've, you knowthat type of thing.
And it's just like then she'sgone because she knows how to
like be with these things, andthen I get to be with myself and
I'm like, what was that mark?
what why are you behaving likethat?
And it's like, of course I knowwhy.

(06:58):
Because these things arebuilding up inside of me.
And then hours pass and myson's favorite friend is there,
his favorite girl.
She's there playing with him,and then they have a moment
where he wants to do somethingdifferent than she wants to do,
and then he's a little sharpwith her.
And as I'm listening to it, Ican hear my mind, but it doesn't
come out of my mouth.
I'm like don't speak to thepeople you love like that.

(07:20):
And as I'm thinking that outloud without saying it to him,
I'm just like, oh, mark, whatabout you this morning when you
say the same thing to yourself?
And I'm just like, wow, if Ireally want to be an impact on
my children's life, it's not doas I say, not as I do, but do
what I say and do what I do.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, so just major reflections constantly
interesting the order of thosethree greatest teachers because,
well, plant medicine willdefinitely take you out of your
head and let you observeyourself, and then a good
partner will literally just holdup a good mirror and let you

(07:59):
look at your shape like.
I love the way you express thatwith regards to your partner
that you were snappy with herand she didn't even entertain it
.
She just walked straight out ofthe room.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, cause she's next level.
If she were to have reacted.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I think she probably would have distracted you and in
that distraction you might nothave seen your shit so obviously
.
But in walking away she justleaves you with it.
Brilliantly.
But then taking it a stepfurther, when you can see many
you acting out you and knowingnot just that that's an
expression of you, but thatyou've also planted the seeds of

(08:32):
that trace in the nextgeneration perhaps haunting or I
thought I was hiding it well,perhaps, and if not, then it
could be genetic.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
You know like information is being passed down
, so it's best that I be on mybest display, from an authentic
place, not just pretending, butliterally just like I am, that I
am peace, I am love, at leastthat spectrum of love, I just

(09:02):
care.
Like you said, that's a perfectword.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
So you've got those three greatest teachers sure um.
Can I ask you what you'rewrestling with most of the month
?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
that those three teachers no, not my three
teachers, just that, thosemoments of like, maybe the
sharpness, or allowing things tocompound within myself, and I
guess what's compounding a lotof times is not.
This is good, let's think,because some of it is like I

(09:40):
have a bigger vision of things Iwant to move into in terms of
projects, and they're notavailable right now, so there's
a patience play.
But, at the same time, what mymind will do be like well, look
at all these opportunities thatyou had before that you could
have capitalized so that you canbe doing this right now, and
then that will send me on aspiral of just like, fuck man,

(10:03):
you're just, you're just notdoing good enough.
Like you should be way betterthan this for everybody, for
yourself, for your family.
Like you should have this andthat, and then comparisons to
like what other people are doingthat are already living the
life or having the projectfulfilled that you want to
fulfill once in your life.
Um, that creates this, thatkernel that I was telling you

(10:27):
about.
That came out with the peoplethat I love as a sharpness, and
so that is definitely what I'mfocusing on.
Like that's my yoga at themoment.
That's what I'm focusing on islike, even though the majority
of moments might look like I'mvery centered, like that may be

(10:49):
the truth, but what about thosemoments in between where I get
tilted off of balance?
And I think in those momentsspecifically is sometimes it
comes out, sometimes it doesn't.
So what I'm trying to give alot of awareness and change to,
at least new embodiment of, isthat I feel like if I practice

(11:09):
it enough and catch myself andthen speak upon it like
sometimes I'll have to apologizefor sure, just clean it up, get
it as clear as possible, keepit that way, continue to
practice that one day not eventhe thought will drop in, it'll
just be so clean and so clearwithin me that I can just move
to, I suppose, another space ofthis love, this care, this

(11:33):
presence that I want to embodyand just be an example of that.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
So when I hear you speak, what I'm conscious of,
even in the example right whenyou were quick with your partner
, mm-hmm the partner doesn'teven entertain that, she leaves
and you sit with that right likethat.
That actually is quite a niceexample of for so many.
It wouldn't have left theirpartner leave.
They would have chased theirpartner out.

(12:03):
I'm like, hey, don't you goanywhere and tangle themselves
up, let's say, in their shit,whereas what I hear from you is
kind of like a much more sloweddown approach, of like actually
I'm going to sit with that.
The same way, when you see anissue crop up with your kid, you
, rather than jump to speak,you're actually analyzing your

(12:25):
thought and you're sitting withit and you're taking
responsibility for yourself.
And then I hear you being likeoh well, I'm a bit frustrated
that I'm not where I'd like tobe.
Let's say, with regards tocertain ambitions in life,
you've prioritized your own uhpiece for yourself over and
above those ambitions, it soundslike.
Would that be fair to say?

Speaker 1 (12:46):
um, yeah, I would say that it's.
It's, I would.
It's not complete, it's more ofa um, a constant uh,
conditioning, because obviouslyit comes up, then I have to deal
with it.
And then same thing, um,thinking that everything should
happen right now, right away.
And then sometimes thingshappen so fast that the I guess

(13:08):
the sans scalpel they would callit.
You know, that groove justautomatically happens.
And then you're it's like youhad no control over it, it just
happened.
And then you get to look at itand you're like what, who did
that?
Who had control here?
And I think I think, just likeyou be.
You know those of us thatcontinue to question the
discomfort.
Eventually we'll get some toolsor some answers on.

(13:31):
This is why it's happening.
This is where it comes from.
There's a lot of just yogictexts that talks about the word
I use in scalpel, just likethese grooves that are just
automatic that we have, whichmeans it could be changed.
But it's going to take a whileto create a new groove.
Right, it's like digging,digging a trench Like you have
to.
It takes a while to build itand then all of a sudden, the
water will just flow through itor the energy will flow through

(13:54):
it, but you have to build itfirst and not use the old one
anymore.
But it's not going to happen inan instant and, uh, I think
that's what also.
That's what I think.
That's what also that's what Ithink plant medicine does is
like it creates a space for youto have to create new grooves in
with a wider perspective.

(14:14):
Yeah, and so, yeah, like inthese moments that you were
talking about, like maybe in thepast I'd want to be like no,
let's sit down and fix it rightnow Versus over time and through
a beautiful relationship ofjust like truth, trust and
transparency and honesty, andalso being together for a while,

(14:36):
just knowing, like if she'sdoing that then it's just like
oh, because, also, I really like, I feel like sometimes we
choose partners that we alsolike look up to because they
have access to something that wedon't quite have yet, and I
feel like she has some of thatfor me, of just this incredible
grace, with or withoutchallenges, like in that moment

(14:59):
that would have been like if Iwas on the other position.
I'm like don't speak to me likethat, let's not do that.
And it's like that couldprobably fire against fire,
versus like she's just like here, have space, and then me being
the person that I am in thismoment of just like, oh man,
she's good it's quite anattentive philosophy for life,

(15:21):
like as in to.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Really well, the kind of the idea that comes to mind
is to really slow down and toreally look at how you're
showing up in the world and tosee how it's serving you.
You know, recognizing that'snot going to serve me in
relationship, recognize thatthat's not going to serve me as
a parent, and it's it's not likeit is something, obviously,

(15:44):
that a lot of people getinitiated into, let's say, with
plant medicine, this idea toobserve how we show up in the
world and refine, refine in linewith where it is that we want
to be, or how we want to be andwhere we want to go.
But it's unique, right, it'snot not everybody does this, but
you seem to do it at a levelthat I would say it's like

(16:05):
unparalleled.
I haven't quite come acrosssomebody that has this
attentiveness to their way ofbeing and I'm so curious like
where, where, if you were, ifyou were to observe yourself,
where do you think that's comefrom?

Speaker 1 (16:20):
oh, man, there's.
There's something you said aswell at the beginning of that of
slowing down.
Like I really like that insight, because that's sometimes it
can sound like a luxury, whichit can be sometimes, depending
on what you're doing and whereyou are in your life, because
you know people that arelistening to this, like they're
all.
We're all living our life at adifferent pace and some of us

(16:41):
have to work a lot more hoursand don't get time to slow down
or at least try and make time toslow down.
And I feel like there's so muchjuice in that and in these arts
of just slowing down and takinga mind to let ourselves filter.
And for me, I feel like whenyou said that the first image
that popped up for me was justbeing a child, like I was, I was

(17:01):
always in my head, I'd haveconversations in there, just
like things that would behappening to me, whether I'm
like having a great time orbeing scolded.
It always felt like I waswatching myself and being myself
at the same time, kind of, likesome say, like having all three
eyes open, you know, so thatthe two eyes that see the outer

(17:21):
world and then the one eyelooking inwards, but they're all
open at the same time.
And that's kind of always beenmy perspective, and especially
like I got to practice it a lotwhen I started playing sports
because I grew up playing soccer, so I can also see it from that
perspective.
And then I think my favoritepart about playing sport was
that when you get into the flow,the flow state, like people are

(17:44):
dubbing the flow state, whenyou get into that like when I
got into that like things wouldjust time would slow down, like
people would slow down, and thenI would see an image of what I
was going to do before my bodyactually did it and this is all
happening, like the ball couldbe in midair from a corner and
I'm going to do like a sidevolley and I the image, image,
everything, just like and thenmy body is moving at the same

(18:07):
time and I'm watching myself dothis.
Yeah, I'm like this isincredible.
So I feel like because of thesport I got to practice it over
and over again, not, but likeI'm gonna sit down and practice
this more of, just like I got tobe in that environment over and
over again, that I just took itwith me into everything that I
did and I feel like, I supposelike what drew me into the

(18:29):
practices of yoga was theopportunity to have a space to
do that again.
It felt so familiar.
I'm like, oh, this is like thephilosophy that I learned from
the game of soccer, that I seeso embedded in the arts and the
scriptures of yoga, thisself-knowledge, this
self-inquiry.
And so it took me into thatworld.

(18:50):
And then just to see that othermen and women have left
scriptures behind of these sametools that we can use in our
life.
They're timeless tools.
Every once in a while you seesomeone pop up in the modern
times saying, hey, let's call itsomething different, different,
but look how useful this toolis.
And it's just like oh, that's.
If you know yoga, you're likeoh, that came from you know what

(19:11):
I mean from the vedas, or itcame from I, I actually do.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
You know what.
It makes so much sense to menow because I can, I can
recognize.
I remember when we uh, when weplayed rugby in school and
they'd record the matches andthen we'd sit down as a team and
we'd watch back and I rememberthe coach literally zoning in on
one of the players feet beforehe got the ball and his heels
were up and he was primed tosprint, and I remember just like

(19:39):
how we would analyze how wewould show up in a game to that
degree of like, look, when youdon't have the ball, have your
heels up, be on the tips of yourtoes, be prepared to move, and
having that like analysis interms of how you play a game.
I can see that for you.
Well, when the game moved aside, that same analysis went into

(20:00):
yoga and that really he startedreally analyzing how you show up
for yourself in that regard andthat's now extended into life.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
So that's that's that really, that early age approach
to football or soccer hasapplied itself into yoga and
then into everything how you dolife as a whole yeah, that's for
sure, man, I like, I like thatand I like, I like that story
and how it relates, because,also, I feel like there's that
level and priming that not theinside, but being able to, I

(20:34):
guess, watch ourselves from theoutside versus having a camera
also pick those things up, liketechnology could be useful as
well.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
I liked when you were talking about flow state, be
useful as well.
It's, it's I.
I liked when you were talkingabout flow, flow state and, um,
yeah, I liked when you talkedabout, like you know, if I'm
going to sit with myself and I'mgoing to, I'm going to observe
the, the moments that areserving me and the ones that
aren't, and I'm going to catchthose.
Very soon it'll run onautopilot and that that's how I

(21:03):
achieve my, let's say, my flowstate in life.
I have to slow down at certainpoints, but, ultimately speaking
, I will speed up.
I have this image of Mr Miyagiin Karate Kid you know, like wax
on wax off?
We haven't done any karate andhe's like, ah, but you have.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Bro, right, yeah, it yeah.
I feel like, because we'retalking about that and I love
the internal technology I wouldcall that the internal
technology and being able to dothat and watch ourselves and see
what's like on autopilot, andthen maybe what program we want

(21:42):
to change to this new version ofself.
And then there's the hardware.
There's like the technologythat's outside of us, like a
camera that could be you, andyou're like oh, I do that in my
head, I thought I did this.
Or the phones that we use andthe algorithms, how they watch
us so closely that they know usbetter than we know ourselves.

(22:03):
And then, when we watchourselves, use a phone and just
like, scroll or do this, andthat it's just like.
And then you wake up from thetrance and you're just like oh
shit look at what I'm doing,look at my behavior, look at
what I'm.
Where do I spend most of my time, like when it comes to pictures
and scrolling, like what am Idoing on this device and all of
these things?
And I'm just like that.

(22:23):
That's also been blowing mymind a lot of just like watching
myself and what I'm attractedto, what I use more if I'm going
to do a message on Instagram,for instance, and then all of a
sudden I wake up from a tranceagain and I'm scrolling a few
times or reading somethingthat's interesting and be like
but wait a second, why did Icome on this in the first place?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I've said it a few times on this podcast before,
but I remember one of the mostconfronting therapies, I would
say, is when I started wantingto create content it was for
YouTube at the time and I wouldask myself a question and record
my answer.
I remember watching it back forthe first few times and be like
I didn't say that and what thehell am I doing with my hands?

(23:08):
And it was just so confrontinghow different what I thought I
was saying was to what I wasactually saying.
And but little by little, as Iobserved it, I refined and after
a month or two took quite awhile of recording every day.
I started to say in thosevideos what I thought I was
saying.
It was a clear reflection andI'd say, representation.

(23:30):
And so, yeah, in hearing youspeak, what I'm getting at is
this, like this philosophy forlife, where you slow, you slow
yourself down, you note andrecognize the parts.
Perhaps that when you're out ofsync and you take time to
correct them and you do it to apoint, then that over time, you,

(23:55):
you flow, you show up in thisflow state that everybody's
looking for.
Everybody wants flow state, butI don't think anybody wants to
do the thing that you wereperhaps masterfully doing, which
is slowing themselves rightdown because everybody is
looking to flow so they canspeed up yeah, you've seen all
the ancient arts, right, that'swhy Tai Chi and Qigong go with
the martial arts.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's like the slowing down the process or to be able
to speed it up and come withmore impact.
I feel, like those you know Italked about, like those are my
three greatest teachers at themoment, but like the teachers
are always changing and there'sso many of them, you know,
slowing down to definitely be ateacher, or just looking at

(24:38):
nature and the way things grow,or just even my breath of just
like every time I'm breathing inI'm borrowing the breath and
then when I give it back, I haveto give it back and then
eventually I'm going to give itback and it's going to stay that
way.
I have to give it back and theneventually I'm going to give it
back and it's going to staythat way.
So it's like it creates a lensthat I look through life a
little differently and I thinkintention is one of the biggest

(25:00):
you know, next to slowing thingsdown.
Like the intention is thereason why, because I intend to
do this.
Therefore, I feel like our bodyis so intelligent, like all the
layers of ourselves are sointelligent, that when we put an
intention to it.
So the energy that we get to,to use which I'm I'm using the
word intent then everythingshifts towards.

(25:21):
Okay, let's look for the thingsthat will help this intention
transpire.
So if, like, my intention islike I just want to be the best
possible man that I can possiblybe and be at peace, all these
other things like there's somany like my intention is like I
just want to be the bestpossible man that I can possibly
be and be at peace, all theseother things, like there's so
many like intentions in it thatI feel like my whole being looks
out for those things andcreates these not not creates

(25:44):
scenarios, but creates thevision that I can see.
Sometimes these moments happenwhere I can learn from that we
were just speaking about.
Like, I feel like that happensbecause of that's my intention
it's, it's, it's just, it's a,it's a.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
It's a lovely perspective, because so what you
just shared there, I think somany would say I just want to be
the best, that I can be, thebest man, that I can be the best
father, the best parent.
That's fine.
Sorry, I was like parent, father, that's the same thing.
But anyway, your philosophy isto slow yourself right down and,

(26:21):
let's say, almost microanalyse.
For others they're like, yeah,you know what?
I want to be the best fatherand the best partner, but I'm
going to work so hard, I'm goingto do all this and,
unfortunately speaking, theystart stumbling and all the
issues and all the bad that cancome from when we approach life
a little bit too fast, likeyou've spoken now.

(26:44):
Let's say you're three greatestteachers and you were like you
know, I had another teacherslowing down.
There's so many other teachersand when you said that, I was
like thinking to myself, yeah,instinctively, probably like
what are?
Let's say, if you have yourthree greatest teachers, the
opposite of that, threecorruptors are like the three
worst things that you can do.
And I notice, almostinstinctively, I find myself

(27:10):
speeding up and it never serves.
Like, over and over and overagain, every time I, I speed
myself up, cracks emerge, I letmyself loose and I, I, I end up
creating a greater mess.
And I'm curious.

(27:32):
I'm going to kind of ask yousomewhat similarly, like, okay,
so I have no doubt speeding updoesn't serve too much, but what
else have you found?
Really, really doesn't serveyou.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think that, like what you were saying, I think
that those are.
I think it's really valid thatwe do make a mess, because that
allows us to see our mess,because sometimes I think I feel
like it's out of our control,sometimes that nature just does
it for us, like, if we push toohard, that we especially like,
let's say, an athletic um pointof view if you're pushing too

(28:05):
hard, eventually you're gonnaget injured yeah or if you're
working too hard, eventuallyyou're gonna get burnt out, and
I think those alone are justlike an indicator of just like
hey, there's something to learnhere.
And either we pick it up then orwe don't.
And I feel like because alsolike slowing down too much,
you're not doing shit, you know,and then there's no energy,

(28:26):
there's no flow, there's justlike a blob.
So it's like the answer's inthe middle right yeah, just done
.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
And that answer in the middle because, okay,
because earlier on in thepodcast, when you're like, yeah,
the one kind of thing is thatthere's certain ambitions, that
I'm not where I'd like to be,yeah, and so what you've
recognized is, hey look, thisslowing down has served me to a
point, but it's also served abit of a detrimental edge and I
want to put a bit of a push inbehind it now yeah, now we're
talking about so many layers,right, because there's like the

(28:55):
slowing down of the mind andthere's like the slowing down of
not doing much in action,absolutely like there is more to
be done, and then just likeyeah, you asked about like, what
are my challenges?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
it's just like finding that happy medium point
where I'm not pushing too hard,because that was like the old me
and finding that center of likeallowing also nature's momentum
to be part of my momentum, andthen the two meet.
So the I guess that space, orthat that space that we're

(29:27):
talking about, that's in between, is like nature has its force
too, and and things are comingtowards us.
So we don't have to push, push,push, push for everything,
because things are coming, butwe also have to play our part,
and I feel like that's themiddle, and I feel like we all
have a different middle path andthat's definitely where mine
would be of just like that'sdefinitely what I'm looking to
serve, which is interesting tooto like look at my life and just

(29:48):
be like okay, well, it was soeasy to do that pushing in my
20s.
Then I started to slow down abit in my 30s when I moved to
Bali, and then so much that I'mjust like, okay, I need a little
bit of we talked about thisover coffee a little bit of
discomfort, but at the same timenot wanting to be uncomfortable
.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Is there any particular thing or event that
happened that you can clearlykind of reflect upon, where you
said you know, like I wasspeeding up, I was kind of
getting stuck into life and thenI came to Bali?

Speaker 1 (30:21):
But around that time, was there some kind of catalyst
that slowed you down?
No, I think there were momentslike living in the city, like
being in London and also justbeing at a certain age I feel
like we have a lot more fire.
But also, especially in London,it's very fast-paced.
I was probably sleeping two tofour hours, maybe six hours
every once in a while a night,and I was just loving life,
going for it, traveling a lot.

(30:42):
But then there was a moment, Ithink in year seven, so I left
at year eight.
I just wanted to know what itwould be like to live in more
nature and visit the city ratherthan live in the city, and then
every once in a while I'llvisit nature.
And so that's when it startedand I had no idea Bali existed.
But then Bali I arrived one dayin Bali and I'm just like, oh

(31:04):
fuck, this is it.
This feels like home.
And then my transition startedto happen.
And then my transition startedto happen and then I noticed
that anytime I had these momentsof like being in bali or india
or even thailand, that thingswould slow down a little bit,
especially in bali, that it wasuncomfortable uncomfortable for
me to slow down.
I'm just like I should be doingsomething.
I'm not doing enough.

(31:25):
And I was like it's my wife now, but my girlfriend then she's
just like didn't you ask forthis?
And I was like oh yeah.
I did ask for this.
I wanted to slow down.
You know, I wanted a little bitof this and then I started to
really get into it and then thethe lockdown happened, and then
I really got a taste of justlike slowing down quite a bit.

(31:45):
It was really quiet on theisland.
I had my first child and then,yeah, now I find myself on the
other end of that.
I'm just like, okay, I'vedefinitely learned to slow down.
Now it's time just to pick itup just a tiny bit more.
I feel like that's the perfectamount, just setting my sails
and then just let it go.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
As you've shared that I, uh, baz lerman, sharing in
my, in my ear, being like livein northern california once, but
leave before you get too soft.
Once but leave before you gettoo hard yeah, man like when you
were like, yeah, I lived inlondon for seven and a half,
eight years and you're like, wow, two to four to maybe six hours
sleep, like that, that's a hellof an intense schedule.

(32:27):
That strikes me as a completelydifferent person to the man
who's sitting in front of me now.
Oh, so much fun, but like thatis doing London and then, on a
contrast, obviously here in Baliand that slow down pace Again,
I've said it so many times inthis podcast, but like how
incredibly impacting anenvironment is on us.

(32:49):
It seems like your environmentmust be really, really impacting
on you, one where you go fromsleeping that little and you're
like crazy fun.
You kind of feel that energyfrom you.
Versus in here, bali, for somany, is about slowing down and
it really has that effect on you.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yeah, that's a that's a very, very vigilant insight
of of I am.
The external environment doesmean a lot to me.
Yeah, it definitely has animpact on me.
That's another thing that Iwould love to.
I'm all about transcendingthings, because I would love to
transcend that too, like I loveexternal environments and it has
a massive impact on me, but Iwould love to one day, within

(33:25):
myself, be so solid that itdoesn't matter what the
environment is.
I'm solid.
Yeah, I tried that approach.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
I like tell me, tell me more I like I've tried to.
My journey is kind of somewhatsimilar around COVID.
I basically I lived in citycentre in Dublin till COVID and
city centre in Dublin was all Iknew and it was great.
And then COVID happened and allthe buildings stopped and in

(34:02):
that moment I enjoyed a peaceand calm that I hadn't known
before and I felt amazing.
It's funny I can actually feelit now as I'm feeling a calmness
coming through me.
Wow, that's powerful.
But then the building startedagain and I remember when all
the building sites came back upagain and the traffic came back

(34:23):
up again and couldn't quite hearnature in the background, just
the stress that I felt wasrepulsive, like literally it was
two days later I'm out of here.
It was that strong for me andanyway, I, I traveled around
europe and around thecountryside, went, went to all
sorts of places, loved it, wentto bali, and then I came back

(34:45):
and I, I couldn't tolerate it.
I was like I can't, I can'tlive in the city, like I, I,
yeah, I I felt so out of out ofout of my comfort zone and out
of my strength and out of sorts.
So I went back to Bali and Ifelt great again.
But I was like no, this isridiculous, I can't be trapped
over like I need to be able toreintegrate.

(35:06):
So I went to London and I Igenuinely had like I would say
almost like a panic attack.
Literally just walking in thestreet I was like, how is this?
I've gotten so fragile?
And anyway I, little by little,I was like I recognized that if
, if I really looked aftermyself in that, in that
environment, like if I did myyoga and if I ate well and if I

(35:28):
slowed down and I didn't put toomany demands on myself, I could
cope in that environment.
But I I then thought to myselfit's like jay, so this journey
of transcending the impact ofyour environment on you it's
like really what it's becomingis extraordinarily laborsome.
And how about you?
Just go somewhere where you'regoing to flow, take that burden

(35:50):
off your shoulders, because ifthere is a place that to exist
you have to do all this stuffjust to be about normal, surely
there is a place where you haveto do none of that and you're
superhuman, and and I kind offeel that that perhaps is a bit
better of a pursuit than tryingto, let's say, transcend the

(36:11):
challenges of an environment.
Find a place that's actuallygoing to make you feel
superhuman yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
I feel like I feel like bali has always been like
my practice place, also home,but I I also feel like there is
this space within us that canhave that like.
I guess it's almost a test,like if I was to go back into
london and I feel like thesehardships, um, or these
challenges I never really foundit as much of a challenge, it

(36:38):
was just the pace.
But then you really feel thepace when you go to places that
are slower and um and also morenourishing, like I couldn't
agree more man.
Bali is so much more nourishingthan the city was for me, and to
be able to go to a place to seewhere I'm at, so it'd be like a
reflection to go back into,like the city, and just be like,

(36:58):
oh okay, like I don't have todo all these extra practices.
I just I've just become it likeI'm embodying these practices
now, um, so it'd be like more ofa reflection that I feel like
is available for me, um, ratherthan like I.
Also, I also wouldn't want topursue it if it was just like

(37:19):
all this, like if it wasdetrimental to my health, right,
but I feel I do feel like it'swithin me that I could be in any
space and just be like, no,with no extra effort, just be
like, oh, just at peace with theway things are, and I'm so
solid within myself and withpeople, and then I kind of use

(37:42):
that as, like my teachers islike the external environments
are everything.
It's like the relationships,it's like the actual environment
of places and things like thatthat allow me to check in with
myself.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
So, yeah, I haven't been away for a while, though I
was thinking I had a couple ofinterviews ago.
I was talking with a woman,hania, who really a kind of a
naturopathic doctor, and uh,there was a nice moment where I
was like how much of the workyou are doing with people will
be negated if they were justliving in the countryside.
True, right, true.
And I I think that sometimes wetax and burden ourselves with,

(38:23):
let's say these, like ideologieshere, we go.
This is great yeah, like, keepon going, man, keep on going.
I want to be able to transcendany environment, so I'm going to
do so much bloody work onmyself.
But the fact is it's like, well, unfortunately, there are kind
of some laws of humanity andthere are environments that work
for you and there areenvironments that don't, and

(38:43):
there are these traits and thesetools and these ways that we
can look after ourselves thatallow us to tolerate some
certain stressful environmentsfor a certain time.
But it's a bit of an uphillbattle and when you like god I
always used to say it's funnypeople turn to wellness when
they need it.
What about if they turn to itwhen they didn't need it?
Like those, all those wellnesshabits, tools and tricks, they

(39:07):
do allow us to cope inchallenging, stressful, let's
say, city-like environments.
But if you take them into anenvironment, that's already
complimenting me, that's thatsuperhuman pursuit and that's
been something that I've beenreally curious of is like,
perhaps, instead of looking atall this stuff just to cope, get
the foundations right and letall of them be a compliment on
top.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
I think, so too, I think that.
I still, I still do highlybelieve that the environment,
like so much can happen in anenvironment for someone that
hasn't got a chance to enjoy itand to be able to take that back

(39:51):
to where we came from and alsostart to adapt the environment
there.
That's not conducive for goodhealth, um.
But also I truly do believe,and I guess the the reason why I
use like transcendence for meis like it's it's the
relationship with oneself andthe love for oneself that I feel

(40:11):
like is the absolute lens ofall reality.
So, no matter where you are, ifyou're like, if you're so clear
in that it doesn't reallymatter where you are, but if you
were never to know what itfeels like which is why it's
important to have these type ofexternal environments then it's
hard.
It's hard to know what it feelslike which is why it's so
important to have these type ofexternal environments then it's
hard to know where to go andthen to have these tools I feel
like are just the practice.
I think that's why they call itthe yoga practice is an

(40:33):
opportunity just to practiceuntil you become it, and then
the yoga is about like the veryword is just like being balanced
, to be yoked, to be complete.
And then what does that feel?
Like, no matter where you go,and that's what I'm really
curious about is like that'swhat I mean by transcendence.
I'm just like.
It's not like ignoring anything, but it's like, oh, now you can

(40:56):
really see it from a bird's eyeview, you can see it all.
That, therefore, you chooseyour behavior at all times,
doesn't matter what theenvironment is.
I've seen a few people outthere that that do really well
with it, um, but I've never metthem in person.
That's more of like, like, Ifeel like I like what sadguru
says, where he's just like hedoesn't give anybody the

(41:17):
privilege of choosing what hisemotional responses are going to
be, he chooses it.
And I was like that's kind ofwhat I'm talking about.
I was just like I'm in power ofthis entire vessel, that I can
anything that I can imagine,like in terms of what we're

(41:39):
using right now the wordtranscendence that one day I can
be, perhaps become that, andthen perhaps this is the road to
that, the word transcendencethat one day I can be, perhaps
become that, and then perhapsthis is the, the road to that,
with all the, with all of myteachers and, you know, through
my relationships and through theenvironments, to constantly
reflect to see what's possible.
I like the way you're like.

(42:01):
Your face is like no no, it'snot.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's actually.
It's it the intimidating thingof when six or seven subjects
come to mind I'm like, oh my God, which question do I want to
ask first or which way do I wantto take this conversation?
But what I find is like how,what I'm coming to you in this
conversation with is myexperience.
I find myself it's, let's say,confronting, actually

(42:26):
recognizing who you are and whoyou aren't, and like perhaps
there's the argument of like,transcend who you are, but it's
like actually are exactly are.
What I find fascinating is,like, jamie, it's your
experience that you don't thrivein the city, but there are
people you know that do thrivein that city and life isn't

(42:46):
necessarily about wanting to bethem.
It's about recognizing who youare.
I find like so much online isyou know there's so much stuff
that we read about that is goodfor you, it's not.
It's good for some, actuallynot good for others.
Environments that are good forsome, not good for others.

(43:11):
But we can get very distractedand very blinded, let's say,
pursuing what we think is goodwithout the recognition or
without that connection orsensitivity.
Yes it is good, it can be good,but is it good for you or not?
Like that's odd, Do you want toknow what the example that's
coming to mind?
Is go for it raw milk.

(43:32):
Yeah, raw milk is so good.
Right, it is so good, Irecognize it's so good, but it's
also not great for me right itjust doesn't feel good with my
system and it it's.
it's funny that there are somany things that are like so
good in a grand sense and sogood for so many but not for
others.
But I have burdened myself somany times by like wanting to

(43:57):
perhaps be something thatactually, once I've done the
work and fully recognized, it'slike Jay, that's just not you,
and that's okay.
And I was like Jay, that's justnot you.
And that's okay.
It's just like a real I think areal important journey of like
self-acceptance of all this andself like it's not boundaries,
but just like well, what's thatgreat?
Saying you can be anything butyou can't be everything and

(44:21):
there's limits within that.
Anything in yourself, andaccepting that there's real
peace, whereas trying to stretchbeyond that is like torturous.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, I like there's so many things, so many threads
that I enjoy about that Of noteverybody is on their own path
is what I heard from you as oneof them.
Just like we all share our ownjourney.
Heard you know from you is oneof them.
Just like we all share our ownjourney and we're all we're all.
We also all have our ownblueprint of why we're doing
what we're doing, but it's notfor everybody.

(44:52):
Like my particular game thatI'm choosing to play is not for
everybody.
This is what I, what I seek andwhat I enjoy, and it just really
fills my heart up to be able tobe with this incredible body
that none of us really knowanything about and we're just
kind of learning as we go.
It's like these are the thingsI want to know most about.
Can I be in a place oftranscendence is the word we're

(45:15):
using of peace and in harmonyand of love, and these are the
things I'm gonna do and whatalso what I loved what you said
is that it's, I feel, like thethe path of how I'm slowly
moving towards is throughself-acceptance.
There's all these things thatcome up and be like oh okay,
that's that's what I do.
Right, that's me at the moment,or at least what I've

(45:37):
identified to be now.
Is there any way I can mold itinto something that's more
towards this image?
You know, because I feel likeimage is one of our most
powerful superpowers.
That's why it's all over ourphones, you know, or when we go
to the movies and you know it'snot real, but you're still

(45:58):
having an emotional response,right?
So then it's hijacked.
But then if we have the samepower to create image and we
live into our image, then whichimage do I choose to live into?
And so, as I share today, thisis the image that I choose to
live into.
And can I embody this image ofself?
So there's only one way to findout, I think.

(46:21):
What is it?
Mcconaughey, mcconaughey,matthew McConaughey yeah, I love
what he said in one of hisspeeches.
I can't remember where it was.
He got an award and I think hewas talking about these three
pillars of what he lives by, andone of them was his hero, which
is the third one, and his heroyou've probably heard this

(46:44):
before, but his hero is himself10 years from now, and I love
that.
So that's the image that helives into that he'll never,
ever attain, because it's always10 years from now, and that's
kind of how I feel about, likemy purse, my pursuit or what I
want to use my life for, is thisparticular image that we're
talking about and, uh, justalways moving towards it,

(47:04):
knowing that I may never embodyit, but I definitely love the
journey towards it yeah, thatspeech when I cry and watch it.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
So good, ridiculous, so good speed.
Yeah, man, you killed it.
There's a when you shareacceptance.
There's a funny one like that'suh, like an image that's coming
to me of an Instagram post Isaw recently, like it was a
little video and it was.
I switched from reading, Iswitched.

(47:36):
I switched from reading about,or sorry, when you switch from
reading self-help books andpersonal development to fairies
and fantasy and discovery orsomething like that, and it was
just a person dancing in therain, happy as can be, and I I
suppose that's probably a littlebit confronting for me, because
I delve into all the kind ofself-discovery and side of

(47:59):
things and there is a part of itthat is like, well, there is a
part of it that's actuallyconfronting self-acceptance.
It's like you are not who youwant to be and here and here's a
manual perhaps to to evolve andand there's a balance and
there's value in it to a point,but it does bring up feelings of

(48:21):
like self-hate to a degree andand there's, there's a lovely,
uh, there's a lovely piece but,let's say, comes with
self-acceptance.
There's a lovely growth thatcomes from that self-acceptance
as well.
And, uh, and what I like to bekind of, the image of joy that I
saw of that person dancing inthe rain, and I was like you
know what, let's take this, likethis push.

(48:43):
We're constantly our pressurethat we're're putting each other
under so much and actually justenjoy a bit of life at the same
time.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I used to have a good friendthat would start all of his
classes this was during training, this was yoga and he said so
he'd show up and sit up there atthe front.
It was like 20, 25 students.
So does anybody have anythingthat they want to talk about?
Or should we go for a walk onthe beach?
We were all there, for I thinkwe were there for two and a half

(49:10):
weeks together.
Not one single day did someonesay let's just go for a walk on
the beach.
Always, someone had somethingthat they wanted to work on or
do.
Rather than like you know what,we can just go live life and
take a moment.
It's like, and I love that.
I don't know if that's what hemeant by that, but I definitely
took that from that.
I'm just like yeah, you know,and so yeah, it's, it's great.

(49:32):
It's really great just beingthat person that's just dancing
in the rain.
It's just remembering, really,if you ask me, yeah it's quite
confronting.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
That's like confronting.
It's a really good example.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
What's confronting about it?

Speaker 2 (49:46):
It's such a good example.
There's certain times in lifewhere you'd be sitting in that
classroom like, oh no, let'stalk about this and let's worry
about that, let's do.
Ah, we could just walk on thebeach and, at the end of the day
, what's going to serve andstand to you better?
You might have learned somefantastic philosophy in that
class.
But what are all the benefitsof going for that walk on the

(50:09):
beach, dipping your toes in thesand, getting a bit of sun on
your face, feeling the lightness?
It's odd, but here's thequestion, right?

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yes, sorry to cut you off, so think about it.
Right, you're in there and whyare you there in the first place
At the yoga teacher training?

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeah, you were talking about.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
So a lot of people would be like, because I need to
fix something or do something,it's just like, okay, well,
that's great, let's do that.
And then, once you do that,what are you going to go and do?
I'll probably go live life andthen go enjoy myself and go walk
on the beach.
It's like, wouldn't you likejust to do that right now.
So it's almost like you're.
It's such a like, such aninterweaving of like.

(50:51):
No real answer, because eitherway is going to be right,
because, also, you don't want tobypass anything, you know, and
you feel like you want to bedoing something, but at the same
time, do you?

Speaker 2 (51:02):
really need to.
Well, they say, 80 of thethoughts that we worry over
never actually eventualize rightso like the amount of wasted
time that we give up to ashumans, the amount of nonsense
that we distract ourselves with,is unbelievable.
I'm like you know so much ofyour philosophy of growth is
like jay I just slow down, Igive myself time to see and to

(51:26):
process and, as a result, grow,and the opposite of that.
Where we're overly busy, wedon't get to see the issues and
mistakes that we're making andwe end up falling all over
ourselves.
So I think it's probably a veryconfronting thing.
But to look at yourself in themirror, look at your days, how

(51:46):
you're spending your time, theenormity of wasted and the
amount of messes that areself-created like I don't think
anybody really wants to admit oraccept that, like the majority
of mental health issues are areof our own blame.
Boy, you're right.
The amount of like overallhealth issues, like and when you

(52:08):
really break it down, like whenit comes to your career and
stuff, it's actually quitesimple, it's quite
straightforward, but it isn'twhen we're creating so many
messes on top.
So you know it kind of took alot of inspiration from me on
the slow down approach.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
You know, and also just acknowledging how
comprehensive it actually is,because it can be and sometimes,
sometimes, perhaps, maybethere's not a way out.
Sometimes, at least not yet,and it's just a seasonal thing.
When you said that, you made methink of my, my grandpa and I
always check in because my mygrandpa taught me this
indirectly and, um, it was a.

(52:44):
It was a story about, like him.
He had this vision of, you know, working so hard that one day
the family can just be togetherand enjoy life, and so the
family had to be separated.
So the mom would live in onepart of Canada, my grandfather
would live in another part andhe would just be working hard,
he wouldn't see family formonths and eventually just tore

(53:06):
the family apart.
So it was like that tore thevision apart, because the whole
reason why he's putting all thatwork in was for the family, but
then in the end didn't have afamily.
And it's just like.
The weight of like the middlepath is really what I'm always
trying to tune myself into, eventhough slowing down is a big

(53:28):
part of it.
It's just like but what's themiddle, what's the middle path?
I feel like the answer for mein my life has always been in
the middle of the two extremesand there's a nice spectrum in
the middle that you can playwith I get very sad hearing that
.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
No, like it's really sad the amount of people that
have, let's say, sacrificedtoday for tomorrow.
Yeah and it's yeah.
They say, like you know, nobodywas like very, very, very, very
few would intentionally want todo any harm.
It all comes from a good placeright, exactly right it's so sad
thinking the messes that wecreate for ourselves with the

(54:03):
best intentions.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
That's really sad, but you know in the end, you had
chances and had a beautifulfamily and all of these things.
So at the same time, it's likethat very story is always stuck
with me.
I'm just like always checkingin with myself and being like,
okay, if I choose, this choiceis this does this fulfill the

(54:26):
overall picture?
yeah you know, or is it justgiving too much?
And um, yeah, just finding thebalance on, I guess, priorities
is really what it comes down to.
Just always checking in with mypriorities, yeah, just having a
lovely partner, becausesometimes it is about like you
want comfort through money andfinances and grand ideas and

(54:49):
nice villas and all of thesethings, and sometimes like the
cost of that in the moment couldbe like sacrificing time in
life with family and it's justlike, well, that's, that's too
much of a cost.
Yeah, you know, to have apartner who's being like you
know what, like I'm in a rushfor any of these things and they
eventually some of it comes,you know.

(55:10):
But it's like from myperspective and things that I've
been dealing with is, you know,throughout my life is the now
of like I can already see thevision.
I want it.
Now it's like this takes seasonsyeah it's coming and let's just
look at your life now and umI'll tell you this earlier, but

(55:30):
it was like it was such ablessing.
That was is a breathworksession and to have this moment
that came up for me during thisbreathwork session of like
really feeling all the greatthings, all the gratitude and
wonderful people that I have inmy life, not just to like think
about it, which I do often, butto actually feel it that it just

(55:51):
brought me to tears, likejoyful tears, happy tears,
thankful tears, of like.
Oh, my God, this is my life.
It could be, it could have beenanything, but it's just like
kids, my wife, my friends, youyou know, you're part of this.
It's just like the people thatreally enrich my life to all the
things, and like Bali existingand being here and my family and

(56:15):
where they are and everythingthey've given to me in the past
and still do to this day.
You know all the love and justweeping and I'm just like, oh my
God, I just felt like I wasgoing to explode Hence, probably
the tears.
And then feeling like, oh myGod, I just felt like I was
going to explode Hence, probablythe tears.
And then feeling like, why do Ideserve all of this?
It's like, oh, there's aglimmer of doubt, yeah.

(56:37):
And then I don't know what itis.
I don't know what these voicesare, whether it be intuition or
the divine of just being likethe mark.
There's so much more.
If you could just open upfurther.
It's like, open up further,like my, oh my god, really, what
does that even look like?
To open up further, to likethese gifts that life wants to

(56:58):
bestow on us, if we can justreceive this is.
This is kind of what we weretalking about earlier, just like
the effort that I put in andthen the effort that you, the
universe, nature, whatever isgiving as well wants to give to
us if we just play our part,which just comes back to love.

(57:18):
You know, like this love I havefor myself and opening up to a
limitless amount of receiving,not taking receiving blows me.
It just blows my mind, man,blows my heart up as well.
I'm just like, oh, my gosh,okay, and just that's what I've

(57:40):
been sitting really ponderingthe last couple days, because
this happened three days ago.
I'm just like what, what is itto to open up and receive?
And where am I in my life thatI'm not, that I can open up a
little bit more.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yeah, I was curious.
Where did you get to?
Where is the space to open upmore?

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Well, I haven't had a lot of time to ponder, but now
that we're speaking about it, um, I would say that you know this
vision that I was talking aboutearlier.
Just like, sometimesopportunities arrive through
different situations or peopleand maybe I'll say no, or I
don't have enough time, or I maynot answer that message, or,

(58:19):
you know, maybe I'm doingsomething that doesn't really
fulfill what my soul is callingfor soul and is calling for.
Maybe I'll scroll instead, ormaybe watch another YouTube
video eat, eat something that Ishouldn't be eating, that I can
feel deep down, I'm just likeokay, you've had enough.
Mr decadence, you know thosemoments I would say aren't

(58:40):
opening up to the abundance.
Yeah, you know, cuz I cuz thatthat energy or that vision could
be used elsewhere, which I canfeel is calling me Like go do
this, go try that.
Reach out to that person.
Oh, somebody's hitting you up.
Answer that one.
You know.
Those, I feel like, are a fewof the little things that could

(59:00):
be opening up further.
Receiving compliments,receiving gifts, it's all kinds
of things, right, like, all ofus have our things that we know
that speak only to us, and it'sthose things that like, and
that's again the love just like.
Go on, that's for you.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Open it up.
You keep saying the love I'mhearing self-love, self-love,
self-love, self-love is in whatyou need, not much more.
Self-love is in what you need,not much more.
Self-love is fosteringrelationships that are
complementing that training.
Self-love is not lettingyourself be doom-scrolling on
social, but actually just givingyourself perhaps that space,

(59:38):
that moment, just to sit withyourself rather than be
distracted.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
I love it.
I love the way you defined that.
I feel like this is coming toan end.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
You defined it love for us, self-love, self-love
yeah, well, I I think how welove ourselves as a funny way of
reflecting itself in the world,absolutely, and so, yeah, when
I think of love, I think it'sthat, it's a, it's a journey
that starts with yourself andreflects itself out and
everything else.
But everything else is ateacher, and the more in which
we, the more in which we do life, the more we learn how to love,
and it always comes back to howwe show up in the world and is

(01:00:25):
enjoyed in terms of how thosewho we relate to as well.
Mark, thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Thank you, that was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
If anybody wanted to reach out, connect in with you.
What's the best way?

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Probably through Instagram.
It's the only thing that gotpopping right now.
That's actually open.
What's your handle At M-A-R-CL-A W-S.
I-i?
So Mark Law is the second.
Perfect.
Thank you so much peace.