May 29, 2025 • 49 mins
Charlie Taylor shares the story of KASK Wines, a Bristol wine bar focused on natural, organic wines that emerged from his own allergic reactions to commercial alcohol products containing numerous toxins.
• Walking away from a corporate career in Dubai to pursue entrepreneurial dreams
• The shock of learning that commercial wines can contain 60-70 different toxins
• Pivoting during COVID lockdown by delivering wine samples and hosting virtual tastings
• Creating a pub-like atmosphere where wine happens to be the main product
• Navigating the mental health challenges of entrepreneurship
• Joining the NatWest Accelerator to regain focus and develop growth strategies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim James (00:00):
Charlie, welcome to the NetWest Unnoticed
Entrepreneur podcast.
Love to learn more about youand the business you've built
here in Bristol Karsk Wines, andthe wine bar that you've been
building.
Charlie Taylor (00:13):
Yeah, so yeah, we've got a bar on North Street
in Bedminster, traditionally thetobacco factory area of Bristol
, so we've seen a fair amount ofgentrification in the last 10,
15 years and I guess putting awine bar on that was, uh, the
final nail in the gentrificationcoffin for four door street.
Um, uh, we focus on, we want tobreak down the barriers of
(00:35):
getting into wine.
It can be inherently a bit of asnobby industry, um, it can be
hard for people to to walk intoa wine bar and feel welcome and
we, we basically want to createa local pub where the main
product happens to be winerather than beer and have that
kind of comfy feel.
Jim James (00:50):
Okay, and then just let's find out why would you
want to do a wine bar in Bristol?
What's your backstory?
So?
Charlie Taylor (00:59):
I'm allergic to alcohol and I own a bar and a
wine business, so I basicallyused to drink a lot of beer,
used to drink a lot of gin, alittle bit of wine, but didn't
know much about it and thenfound increasingly I was uh
having allergic reactions, um,which ended up getting worse and
worse and worse, to the pointwhere now, if I was to have a
(01:19):
glass of Jacob's Creek, uh, aCarling, a Gordon's gin,
anything kind of what I wouldcall industrial alcohol, I'll
sneeze within five minutes, andthen tomorrow I'd be in bed for
the whole day constantlysneezing um.
And then somebody introduced meto to what some people call
natural wine, let's call itorganic wine, minimal
intervention, um, and I suddenlydiscovered I was fine and
(01:42):
didn't have that reaction.
Um, so good news, I could drinkalcohol again and then
discovered more about it.
Really like the ethos.
I like the farming ethos.
I like the fact it'spredominantly made by small
farmers.
Most through the land has beenin families of generations.
They've looked after the land.
So it's another kind of fastfarming and people who care
(02:04):
about the product and the landand then the glass in your hand,
if you like.
Jim James (02:08):
So they kind of got into it that way let's talk
about the business in a littlewhile, but before we do that,
just it's a bit alarming thatwhat you're saying is that you
know wine in the supermarkets istoxic beyond the alcohol, but
that's not a commonunderstanding, is it?
Charlie Taylor (02:25):
yeah, I think we need to be careful.
Not not all wine is that badright, but if you look at, if
you look at the organic foodmovement, um, that's obviously
become very big in the last 20,30 years.
A lot of people don'tunderstand what's in alcohol,
whether it's wine or beer or ginor any other form.
There are potentially,potentially between 60 and 70
(02:48):
different toxins in a bottle ofwine on a supermarket shelf,
whether that's from fungicidesor pesticides or herbicides or
additives, preservatives, acidsugar that are put in the wine
afterwards.
And that's legally allowed.
I think inica it's 76, the fdaallowed.
If that was food that would becalled ultra processed food, but
(03:10):
nobody knows.
Some wine which is dying tocatch on.
But but a lot of people don'tknow that.
So now, for most people that'sfine.
Most people don't havereactions to that.
Some people do, but for me,people should know.
People should know that andhave almost that freedom of
choice.
Jim James (03:25):
Well, you say that there's a choice that comes from
the awareness and the education.
So you're really introducingpeople through your cask wines
and wine bar, to naturallyproduced wines.
Charlie Taylor (03:38):
Yeah, and it's wine how it was always made
before, I think, basicallybefore pesticides came along.
I think from memory pesticideskind of were invented or came
into common use in the 1920s orjust a bit earlier, but became
really common after second worldwar when a lot of farmers
didn't return right so and therewas food shortages, so suddenly
(04:00):
government's farmers had tofast farm quickly.
So then a lot of chemicals werekind of introduced into farming
in the 40s and 50s, um.
So wine historically was madewell, um, and in large parts of
the world, especially thosetraditional areas like bordeaux
or burgundy, they've never usedtoxins in the land, um, because
they haven't.
That's not how they used to doit.
(04:21):
But your industrial stuff, thestuff, let's name them, your
Jacob's Creeks, you know thethings which, if you're buying a
bottle of wine for four quid ina supermarket or in your local
spa, that's probably beingproduced very quickly which is
damaging for the land long-termand potentially harmful to your
body.
You need to be careful.
You don't say it's bad for you,I mean all alcohol is
(04:42):
inherently bad for you.
Say it's bad for you, um, Imean all alcohol's inherently
bad for you, um, so drink inmoderation.
But you know it's important.
People kind of do know that,and for me it's not just about
the, the stuff it may do to yourbody, it's also just that ethos
.
You know, I would.
I would rather drink somethingthat's been made with a bit of
love, um, and love for the land,than than something that's
effectively a commerciallyproduced product being made in a
(05:05):
boardroom somewhere to tick abox.
Jim James (05:08):
So you've got this vision really to start to bring
people, if you like, to naturalwines.
Yeah, partly from your ownstory there of experiencing the
downsides of the toxins that goalongside the alcohol.
Charlie Taylor (05:22):
As an entrepreneur, though, charlie,
you know what brought you intobeing an entrepreneur, because
you could have just franklybought bottles of wine without
having to go around sort oftrying to solve the whole
problem for everybody.
Jim James (05:35):
So why did you decide to become an entrepreneur?
Charlie Taylor (05:38):
So I was living overseas, in Dubai, in a
corporate job.
I'd been head of comms for thetourism board there, then became
head of comms for a hotel group.
We had hotels, kind of, aroundthe world and loved, loved the,
loved the job, loved the career.
It was really exciting.
Myself and my wife had beenmarried and we were.
(05:59):
We just got married in 2018.
Did I get that right 2018.
?
And knew we at some point wewanted to come back to the UK.
Our parents were getting older.
We wanted to be closer tofamily, kind of you start
long-term planning, and I didn'tthink, continuing that career,
I'd find a job as exciting asthe ones we were doing.
(06:21):
Like, okay, now, if I'm evergoing to have a career change,
now's the time.
And I, in my mind, alwaysfancied the idea of having my
own bar.
I'd worked in bars when I was,you know, late teens, early 20s,
um, and I'd done a project forthe hotel group where we had 90
restaurants in dubai and welooked at the bottom performing
third and I worked with theheads of the fmb to look at why
(06:45):
those restaurants might be notdoing so well restaurants and
bars may not be doing so well asothers and how to reinvent them
.
Look at concept, look at whatpeople wanted.
Um, and I'd really enjoyed that.
Um, I'd even said to my my bossat the time I quite fancy
moving into operations, and shehad pointed out that wasn't
great for her head of PR to saythat.
So, um, that was always in mymind.
(07:05):
And then I discovered thenatural wine was in a bar.
On holiday with friends in SanSebastian, where this kind of
bar is common.
You know, mainland Europe.
These are the kind of bars andthose kind of bar you go into
holiday, you go on a easy jetflight and you end up in a cool
little bar.
You stumble across and spendthe evening there and love it,
and we just wanted to do that.
(07:26):
But it just happened to be atthe end of your road in bristol
and that was kind of the dream,if you like.
Jim James (07:31):
And so we set about it okay, so, from from dubai and
the sunny climes of dubai, uh,to the sunny climes of bristol.
Having lived overseas for 25years myself and going back to
the uk in 2019, I completely youknow I'm with you in terms of
the joys of living overseas, butalso the connection that you
have with family and friendswhen you come back.
(07:52):
What were some of thechallenges that you faced?
Because if you've worked for abig company, you've got all the
security, stability theyorganize your email for you and
they pay the credit card for you, and so on.
When you set up a business,you're responsible for
everything.
So take us through some of thechallenges that you've faced.
Charlie Taylor (08:13):
Well, I think the first kind of.
At first, we created theconcept sitting in our villa um
in dubai, right and and, and wedidn't want to move until we
knew we had a location.
Um first challenge was findinga location and we we had't want
to move until we knew we had alocation.
Um first challenge was findinga location and we we had a very
specific list of criteria.
We wanted, um off the top of myhead, kind of top few were be
surrounded by what we callchimney pot, so be in the middle
(08:36):
of a community.
We didn't want city center, wewanted to become a local.
We wanted a group of regulars.
Um, that was important for usboth from, uh, what we wanted if
we were going to be in there,from the joy of knowing people,
but also commercially, havingpeople who are going to come in,
not as a special occasion, comein week in, week out.
Um, we want small things.
We want in the garden, whichI'll come to save this later um
(08:57):
and a few other things and sizeetc.
Not too big, not too smallenough storage um.
So we looked at a lot oflocations online and then,
coming back and forward um alittle bit, um, I had a few fell
through.
So there's your first challengethings.
I'd never done this before,never opened a business before,
never looked for sites.
(09:18):
I remember being on a beach indubai on my birthday.
Um, we had a location allsorted in north bristol and
finally out that day had fallenthrough because something in the
lease we weren't happy withthat changed and the the
landlady wouldn't change.
So coping with thatdisappointment of having that
kind of highs and lows, um, andthen we finally found the right
(09:39):
location, um, so then it'sexcitement and you're planning
for us.
It was.
I talked about the concept.
It's about coming up with theconcept, coming up the brand,
going for all the names, etc.
What's it going to be like?
The interior design um, so thenit's all really exciting.
I missed moving back from dubai,which was, um, there's a story
there, but, um, it was rushed,to say the least.
(10:00):
Um, because that we had a lease, the landlord, basically, we
were arguing, we were appointingthe lease for about three
months and the landlord finallysaid right, I'll agree to that,
but you need to be here tomorrowto sign it, and we were in Lyon
, so a 19-hour bus to get thereto sign it.
Still excitement.
So that first kind of sixmonths, I guess, is exciting.
Jim James (10:22):
It's almost on paper, you're not in the business
reality and were you doing thisfrom Dubai and still working and
trying to start Karsk?
Charlie Taylor (10:31):
yeah, I'd left the corporate job, um, but
myself, my wife had a, someclients over there, some PR and
social media clients, oh, andhospitality, so it was quite
good right to bat off as well,um, but yes, we're doing, doing
the same yeah, I have to ask whyBristol?
Jim James (10:46):
Because, I mean, is it because it's the sunniest
city in England?
It's sunny today.
It's the closest thing to Dubai.
Charlie Taylor (10:54):
My brother lived here.
I owned a bookshop.
We had family, so anytime I'dcome to London quite a lot for
work.
I'd always come to Bristol andloved it and, if you like, it's
the absolute antithesis of Dubai, right, it's independent, the
atmosphere is great.
They support loads of smallindependents, the community vibe
, the music I'm really big intomusic, so everything I loved
(11:15):
about Bristol.
We thought, if we're going tomove and we were coming back to
be a family, so our choices wereup north, where my wife's from
Birmingham, where we got loadsof mates, or Bristol and we
ended up looking at venues inall and settling on Bristol.
Jim James (11:28):
Yeah, lucky for us that you have.
And then talk about community.
You got involved in the NatWestAccelerator and the community
here.
How did you discover?
Charlie Taylor (11:38):
the community.
Yeah.
So I guess we'd been open fiveyears had gone through Brexit
coming in.
We opened six months beforelockdown, survived that which we
might come on to later and ithad never been my plan to have
one bar when we came up with theidea of doing it.
The plan was to have fivewithin five years, to have that
(12:00):
kind of ambition.
As with many people's lives,covid kind of scuppered that.
And then we find ourselves kindof ambition, as with many
people's lives, covid kind ofscuppered, scuppered that, um,
and then we find ourselves kindof three or four years in we're
still where we are, um, and thatwas quite challenging for me
because then you startquestioning have we made the
right decision?
You know from a moneyperspective, uh, what that
affords your lifestyle, but alsofrom a general happiness in
(12:23):
your day-to-day um, and I thinkwe just saw natwest accelerator
advertising.
Right now is the time.
If we're gonna change things.
We need changing now and needthat bit of a spur.
And it felt like a good um, itfelt like a good, a good thing
of doing okay.
Jim James (12:37):
so you joined the accelerator and then, if we look
at what you've been doing withKarsk you talked about COVID.
Let's just talk about how youovercame the challenges, because
that's a great example of whereall entrepreneurs had to think
quick or go home.
Charlie Taylor (12:57):
Yeah, so it was six months.
We'd opened in October I thinkit was March 19th maybe where we
were told we had to close.
And the next day after havingto close, we had a a tasting in
the bar that had sold out, so 30people.
We didn't really want to givethat money back, um, so we
contacted them all and said ifwe can somehow get wine to you
uh, we, we, just as everyone wasjust finding that point a thing
(13:20):
called zoom which we'd neverheard about but if we can get a
signed up for that, get somewine to you.
Do you fancy jumping onlinetomorrow?
And everyone said, yeah, that'sgreat.
So we did that, we, we popped Ithink it was asda, maybe and
popped down and bought somepretty horrible looking plastic
bottles, poured wine into itfrom other big bottles.
It looked like you're, itlooked like we were delivering
urine samples around bedminster,um, on our bikes, dropped at
(13:43):
the door, knocked on the doorand ran away because everyone
was scared that you know you'reabout to get the plague.
The moment somebody came to thedoor, jumped on Zoom and did it
and at the end everyone saidthat was great.
Could we do it again next weekIf we're still locked down.
Can we do it again next week?
Because obviously at.
Jim James (14:02):
When you say did it just help us understand what?
Because they were expected tocome and have a wine tasting?
Yeah, and you were dragging anddropping bottles of kind of
look like urine samples to theirdoor, yeah, and then zooming
them.
So what value are you offeringthem?
Charlie Taylor (14:15):
Well, so we're talking through the wines, right
.
So we do do tastings in the barevery week and introduce new
wines.
For me it's about the winemakerand the stories behind the
winemakers.
It's not getting down and deepinto kind of soil types and the
chemistry, because some peopleare interested in that, but most
people, most people, not.
So it's a storytelling aroundthe wine's provenance and the
(14:35):
winemaker at the time.
Um, as well as being allergic toalcohol when we opened the bar,
I knew nothing about wineliterally nothing.
I discovered it through theallergic reaction, but I didn't
think about it.
But we were.
We opened the bar initiallywith some friends and the
long-term plan for the five barsin five years was they would do
the wine, we would do themarketing and the venue concept
(14:58):
creation, if you like.
Uh, but they lived inbirmingham so they couldn't.
It was covid.
They couldn't get there.
So we spent those first fewmonths of covid with me, a
script behind the laptops and noone could see it on an old
piano stand literally readingoff things but trying to in a
way that seemed natural andblack, basically blagging it
(15:19):
because we had no other option.
Because what?
Jim James (15:20):
we're going to give that money back and not have any
money well, I'm beingresourceful as well as an
entrepreneur, and that point ina way that you don't have to be
an expert.
You just have to be more of anexpert than the client.
Charlie Taylor (15:31):
Or pretend you're more of an expert.
Jim James (15:34):
I wouldn't want to say that in recordings, but this
idea that you were also givingpeople something to do during
lockdown, which presumably meantas much, in a way, as the wine
itself, was the connectivity inthe community that you continue
to yeah, it was that time wheneveryone was doing quizzes,
right, I mean, I spoke to myfamily way more during lockdown
(15:55):
than I've ever spoken to themwhen you're jumping on doing
regular quizzes, and it wasagain.
Charlie Taylor (15:59):
If we some of us don't want to remember back,
but if we remember back, it wasquite a nice warm summer.
It felt like novel to jumponline and get a takeaway and
drink wine and and talk to yourfriends and family.
Um, and we were the alternativeto the, to the quiz.
That quickly people, I think,got bored of doing a quiz online
.
So we were, I guess, thealternative and we grew it and
and luckily we have some wineimporters who who do know about
(16:22):
wine and they were happy to doit as well because it meant they
got, they got the business fromus.
Um, so they would join in anddo it.
But kind of three or four monthsin we realized that wasn't
scalable.
We could do one or two a week,but it wasn't really scalable.
Um, so what could we do next?
So we developed at home tastingkits, so things that didn't
need us to be online.
(16:42):
So it was now look nice andurine samples.
We had the branding on it, we'dgot the cardboard boxes done
and we found the bottles and webranded the bottles and created
little wine cards so every winehad a nicely branded card.
So people could then host theirown parties at home and then
branch out to corporates so thelikes of PwC and Red Bull and
(17:06):
Nike wanting stuff for all theircolleagues that were now
working at home.
So we would do that and thosewere normally where we'd then
host them.
So hosting 150 people on Zoomdoing a wine tasting was
definitely not the most funthing to do.
Jim James (17:20):
Yeah, it can make it quite stressful, but good for
the business.
Yeah, but just backing up alittle bit, because you've
talked about the products andservices you're delivering,
which is really innovative.
But how are you getting thedemand?
Because if it's at lockdown ummarketing background, but you're
in dubai and my experience isyou know if you're in another
(17:41):
country you don't have thenetwork or the profile how are
you driving demand for theofferings?
Charlie Taylor (17:47):
so first we were first to market right.
So literally going back to thatspanish wine tasting, it was
all tickets for.
Within an hour of realizingwe're having to lock down, not
to get money back, we'd contactthem all.
So we did it within a day oflocking down and then we
realized I do used to do a lotof crisis comms because like
okay, what, what do we do inthis scenario?
And my wife, luckily, is verycreative and also in marketing
(18:09):
and social, so we very quicklysaid this might be something we
need to to move quickly on.
So got some good seo behind itin the first weeks of lockdown,
developed our website.
We'd had a very simple one ortwo pager, but very quickly
developed the website as well.
So so people were finding us.
We also you talk about network.
One of our friends from Dubaiwas the digital editor for Vogue
(18:33):
.
So within four weeks oflockdown we had an article in
Vogue about the story ofmovement after Dubai opening a
bar and being locked down.
So that network also helped.
Jim James (18:43):
Okay, yeah, I read that story and I also read a
piece of PR that you were inwhere you talked about people
canceling their bookings.
So was part of the strategy tobe as transparent as you could
be, because potentially you weretaking a risk criticizing your
customers for not showing upwhen they'd booked a table?
Charlie Taylor (19:07):
I think the case you're talking about is a very
recent case.
Yeah, this wasn't the COVIDtime.
I think we always wanted carsto be authentic and we always
wanted, you know, the product'sauthentic, the product is no
chemicals, no bullshit.
You know, we want the same tobe to us Now.
Funny enough, saying that Ilook back now, for the first six
(19:28):
months to a year I was it'svery honest now I was terrified
of people finding out ourbackground, of having worked in
dubai, because there's there's,especially in a city like
bristol, which is very authentic.
A lot of people have negativeviews of dubai and I was
terrified that actually thatstory didn't quite work and and
I knew we were authentic in whatwe were doing.
(19:49):
But you could see some peoplegoing oh, natural wine bar
funded by money and earned indubai.
You know it didn't somethingfor me jarred, I was
unnecessarily worried about it,but it's that kind of thing you
get in your head and you think,oh god, this could, yeah, ruin
us.
It was never going to, but youknow it could ruin us.
And then I did realize later on, actually there's, there's some
authenticity to that as well.
(20:09):
Um, but the brand we wanted tobe authentic, it wanted to be
about us.
We never I talked about kind ofblagging those online taste
things about my knowledge, butwe've never been shy and coming
forward and saying we there's alot to know about wine and we
don't know much about it.
We'll discover it with you andI think actually that's helped
the experience because we wantto appeal to people who we want
(20:30):
to tick the boxes for.
People who know natural winereally well will walk in.
See a bottle on the shelves.
They think god, we can't getthat out anywhere else in
bristol.
This is amazing.
But 80% of people who walkthrough doors are doors and not
those people.
So they're people who arepopping in for a bar because it
looks nice and we don't wantthem to feel the barriers are up
for them discovering the wine.
(20:51):
So a lot of what we do is abouthelping people get through that
first barrier okay, that'sreally nice a that you've got
this idea about authenticity,the.
Jim James (21:00):
It's an interesting issue about the negative bias
that people might carry it andhow you might carry that in your
mind more than the customerdoes.
I want to just go back tosomething.
You talked about thinking ofthe concept, because it's
actually quite a big topic andmany people have got an idea for
a business, but then thepractical implementation might
(21:24):
be a company name or might be alogo.
Practical implementation mightbe a company name or might be a
logo, but how did you and yourwife think about the brand?
Can you give us some steps thatyou went through?
Because there are a lot ofdifferent aspects and often
people need to have thatframework and feel the
confidence that it's all inplace before they go into the
(21:47):
market yeah, yeah, and I think Ithink it's our backgrounds did
help on that.
Charlie Taylor (21:51):
I think you always want two or three things,
as that becomes through lineswhich don't necessarily get
talked about, but you can alwayscome back to it.
Does that tick that box, are we?
Are we true to that value?
So for us it was be a pub.
That just happened to servewine, so, so we want to look
like a pub.
The venue we ended up with onnorth street has been a pub for
(22:14):
150 years, so that inherentlyhelped.
Yeah, um, although we did thenrip it up, rip it apart and
rebuilt it, um, but it lookslike a pub from the outside.
So that that helped.
And then I think that Europeanthing of it's the bar you
discover on holiday, but it justhappens to be at the end of
your street.
That also helped.
(22:34):
So, not over-engineered.
Beautiful interiors, beautifulinside and we get a lot of
comments on that but again, notloads of stainless steel,
organic materials, you know thatkind of thing.
So we knew we wanted that.
The name was it's funny names.
We spent months and months andmonths and months and we found
old spider grams the other dayof some of the names and we
(22:57):
ended up at Karsk because it wasa Karsk house.
The venue we actually found wasa Karsk house, and one of our
core things on sustainability iswe have wine on tap, so we have
wine in tap, so we have winethe bottles, but a lot of our
wine comes in kegs or casks, sothe two kind of came together
right.
So so that was an importantmessage as well, because,
although now there's a fair fewvenues in bristol that have
(23:18):
wines on tap, we were we werethe first ones, um, and the
reason we do that is it's glassis pretty expensive, um, and bad
for the environment.
In terms of shipping around theworld, we get 20 26 bottles in
one cask or keg, um, and you canrecycle those.
So it's it's better for theenvironment, but it's also
better wine for cheaper price.
Jim James (23:39):
Yeah, and that's another key thing as part of
that breaking down the barrier,you want to walk in and see a
five pound glass of wine, um,that's, that's good, um, we can
do that from having that winecoming keg yeah, so you're
making wine much more accessible, to say an idea, sort of
democratic, but making it say apublic experience which feels
much more like continentaleurope, yeah, rather than the
(24:01):
barrier of the sort ofoonologist and who, the
sommelier, comes in and tries tofrankly confuse you and get you
to buy the most expensive wineyou can yeah, and when we were
looking at research we went to alot of bars.
Charlie Taylor (24:12):
We went to london and a few other cities in
the uk.
I looked at where we feltcomfortable walking in and I
remember we're there's a sundaynight in a really good bar in
london really well respected inthe natural wine world.
But we walked in.
There was two of othercustomers there and us and we
sat at the bar and it took 15minutes to get served because
the bartender was just pouringknowledge down this customer's
throat.
We're like mate, we just want aglass.
(24:33):
Yeah, so that's key as well.
It's it's reading the room,reading what do you want.
You might be coming with yourmates on a date and you want a
little bit of treatment and leftalone.
Or you might be coming inbecause you're really interested
and you want us to pour yousomething you would never
normally pick or special andhave that chat.
So a lot of our thing from thestart has always been how would
you read what that customerwants?
(24:54):
And taking some of my hotelbackground and putting into that
, we had a thing the hotel groupI had.
There were some tenants and onewas smile at the guest before
they smile at you and that'ssomething that we've carried
through as well.
So as soon as people walkthrough the door, it's getting
that eye contact and and beingloud like hey, come in.
Jim James (25:14):
You know, it's wine bars can be stuffy and quiet and
we want people to feel verywarm to come in yes, it sounds
so you've really thought through, right, the, the core values of
cask, um, and then it's playingout in, say, the venue, the,
the kind of merchandise and theproduct you're actually offering
to people.
Um, in in terms of being anentrepreneur, because it sounds
(25:35):
like you've already nailed thatconcept and the delivery there.
What have been some of thechallenges that you face?
Where one comes to mind for meis always about cash flow,
because you talk about leaving ajob and then there's six months
, nine months, there's leases,you maybe put deposits down
Meanwhile certainly myexperience the savings are going
(25:57):
down while you're investing inwhat could be a future income.
Charlie, can you just tell us alittle bit about how you've
managed that side of life,because it does come with its
stresses as well?
Charlie Taylor (26:09):
Yeah, it does, and we had left a lifestyle
where the bank balance went upat the end of every month, you
know, and we're able to traveland not really worry about spend
.
So that's part of it and that'sif I do it with my wife, and
although she's got what I call aproper job now and has had for
kind of three or four years, wedid do it together.
So that was a commitmenttogether to do it, and it was
(26:30):
definitely more my dream thanhers, if you like.
So there was there was some ofsupporting behavior from her,
yeah, but then some real toughtimes as well, you know.
So we've had to kind of work onthat together.
In terms of cash flow, again,I'm going to be really honest,
we were lucky.
We had savings built up right,so so when we knew we were going
(26:52):
to be leaving dubai at somepoint, it was okay.
Now let's stop being frivolous,so let's actually put some
things, some things away, um, sothat definitely helped.
So we haven't needed to take ondebt, which I'm really thankful
for.
Yeah, um, it's just notsomething I'd ever want to have
to do.
Um, uh, so, yeah, but, but thatis always an anxiety now
because it's like well that's,was that the right thing to do
(27:14):
five years ago?
That money, should I put thatin stocks and shares?
Should I invest it in property,you know?
And when we have a bad week ora bad month, um, from a cash
perspective, or the governmentintroduced new costs and et
cetera, you go crikey.
Are we playing at running abusiness or is this actually a
business which is good for ourlong term?
(27:34):
And I'm not even sure now Icould answer that, which is part
of what coming to Acceleratorwas for.
Jim James (27:40):
Yeah, let's talk about that because when you
start a business there's alwaysthe opportunity cost of what
you've done with the money right, and if you'd kept the job and
turned up and given the man yourtime and return for the cash,
put it into stocks and shares,as you say, or into a property?
There's always that doubt whena customer doesn't come in or
(28:03):
there's a delay or somethingdoesn't go right.
You talk about the accelerator,charlie.
What, what's been your, if youlike, experience in the
accelerator?
What's helped you get through?
Charlie Taylor (28:12):
so I think the core thing for me was and I
actually didn't mention earlier,but as we've talked, I realized
it.
About a year and a half, twoyears ago I got out of absolute
nowhere, an old contact, I gotoff a job um in saudi, in saudi
arabia, and I I never likedsaudi um, I'd never.
I don't like some of the thingsit stands for.
(28:32):
Um, I had not nothing aboutthat job offer made me want to
go, other than the money.
But the money was really goodand when you're looking at you
know your bank balance notnecessarily going up at the end
of every month you think, god,if I could do this for two years
, that kind of sets us right andmaybe that affords us to open
(28:52):
another bar, et cetera.
So we spent myself and my wifespent about four weeks maybe
talking about it.
She was pretty against it fromthe start and that was a key
thing.
She wasn't going to move, move,so there would have been some
pressure on our relationshipthere, um.
But I realized at the end ofthat kind of four weeks of going
back and forward, my motivationisn't money, which right now is
(29:13):
probably quite a good um, butthat was, and so then at that
point I was like right, I guessI am now in this, I guess this
is what I've chosen to do, atleast for the next kind of 10
years.
So now we need to actually goback to our original plan of
having multiple venues or abusiness around it and not just
one bar.
I don't want to be behind a barpouring wine Well, actually I
(29:36):
do, that's not.
I love to be behind a barpouring wine all the time, but
that's not going to build alifestyle that we want to build.
So it was around that time thatwe saw the accelerator and we
thought, right now, that mightbe the right time to do it, and
so there was that motivationgetting in it.
We did the induction day andstraight away.
There are a few things thatwere said.
Um, from the net worth guys, itreally resonated with me about
(30:00):
working on the business, not inthe business, which, which is
the one line that I thinkeveryone really resonated for me
and I know a lot of people inthe group, which, which is the
one line that I think everyonereally resonated for me and I
know a lot of people in thegroup do as well um, and it's
afforded me the ability to stepaway from the business to.
I say to myself if I'm in on, Icome in every Wednesday, that's
the time I'm not going to doother other things and that's my
(30:21):
time where I'll focus on thebusiness.
So, with accelerators help,we've created a business plan
which we never had.
We had six years ago but havenever re-looked at um, revisited
what my ambitions are, what Iwant to be spending my time
doing, where we want to be infive years time, etc.
Um.
So that's one big tick for methat the accelerator has done um
(30:42):
.
And then being around otherpeople who are of a similar
mindset as well.
You know, I've come from acorporate background where I was
part of a commercial team andhad a vp of revenue and a vp of
sales that I met with every dayand um.
You certainly do your ownbusiness and you're kind of on
your own um.
So the accelerator gives youthose people around you that you
(31:02):
can have a little chat to andbounce ideas off, which is is
really valuable.
Jim James (31:05):
When you joined the Accelerator and then you started
to get into it, what was themindset and, if you like, the
actions that you needed to take?
That were different from, ifyou like, running it on your own
.
Now you want to run five, sixand build up cask wines.
What are some of the practicalsteps that you're needing to
(31:26):
take and that you've gotguidance on?
Do you think?
Charlie Taylor (31:29):
well, I think the first step is is going.
If you're going to grow, youcan't do everything yourself.
Um, so in the last six months,so I've been an accelerator now
for maybe nine months.
In the last kind of three tosix months it's been right.
What can my team do?
And we, we're lucky I say luckybecause in hospitality it's very
rare to keep staff for too longbecause it's a low-paying
(31:51):
industry.
We're lucky that our GM has beenwith us since we opened and I
definitely was guilty of notdelegating and he's got talent
there that I hadn't been tappinginto but also desire to do it.
And actually my realizationpoint of that was I realized
actually he's at flight risk andif he leaves I can't grow this
(32:13):
business because I'm going tohave to go back and do that or
train somebody up.
So that delegation role so he'snow got a completely different
job role than he had six monthsago, seems to be loving it and
we are hopefully about to sign alease on a new venue.
Um, and he's been involved inthat from the start, including
(32:34):
the decision to do it.
So include we looking at thevenue, saying, right, is this
now the right time?
Can we do this as a group ofpeople.
It's just the right time.
So he's and he'll project,manage that, so that gives him a
new lease of life as wellwithin the business.
Jim James (32:48):
That also gives me skills which I don't have when
you do that, though, you startto take on the overhead.
Yeah, and the the reason thatmost of us try and do the work
is we think, well, I'll save abit of money by doing it myself.
What does that mean for you interms of how you see yourself,
um, as a business owner ratherthan a business doer?
Charlie Taylor (33:12):
that that and it's that's a hard shift in
itself right, especially withwith him, because we've got five
and a half years of arelationship built up where now
that dynamics got to change andhe's we've always had a flat
structure but actually as wegrow, he's going to have to be
focused on profit and and lossand turnover, which he's never
had before, which thereforemeans I'm going to have to be a
(33:34):
bit maybe harder on him, not asfor want of a better term, um,
and and that's a hard shift togo from being very flat
structured, almost colleagues,to a.
There's now a relationship herewhere you're going to be
motivated by a bonus etc.
Which you know, and thereforeyou know I might have to come
down hard on you at all, orthat's hard, and that's what I'm
kind of going for at the moment.
(33:54):
But there's some mentors withinthe natwest acceleration
environment that are kind ofhelping, helping with that as
well okay, because I was goingto say the.
Jim James (34:02):
the biggest challenge as you grow a business is to
grow yourself as an entrepreneur.
You, we all, get comfortable incertain roles, certain kind of
work, certain kind ofconversations that we might have
, and my experience as well isthat the people around me get
used to playing me in that kindof role and you need some
support to.
If you like, train and work outdifferently, don't you?
(34:24):
Yeah.
If you like, train and work outdifferently, don't you yeah?
What have you been doing nowwith cask wine to start to grow
it beyond the?
You talk about the one and wantto have five.
What sort of systems are youneeding to put in place to
realize the ambition to have abusiness that you own rather
than a business you work in?
Charlie Taylor (34:45):
Well.
So one thing that's it's goingto be a buzzword coming up, but
one thing that Accelerator.
We've done some training on AI,so and again I brought it into
the GM's role, which is notsomething I knew he'd feel
comfortable with, but brought itin and say, okay, what can we
do on a daily basis?
What are we doing on a dailybasis that AI could do for us?
So he creates some efficienciesthere and actually we both kind
(35:09):
of embrace that once we gotover that initial hurdle.
Now it's something that my wife, who works in an agency, has
been telling me for a year, andevery day I'd say do you know
how to do this?
Just get chat GPT to AI, andI'd always been resistant to it
and I don't know why.
Come into Accelerator.
You hear a third party tell youand you go oh yeah, that seems
(35:30):
like quite a good idea actually.
So I should have been doing itfor the last year.
So, looking at how we cancreate efficiencies, looking at
how I'm spending my time, we dida presentation in Accelerator
where we did a day on your diarymanagement and it was something
I used to be really good at ina corporate world because my
boss was great at it aboutmanaging your own diary and not
(35:51):
letting somebody manage it foryou, and that's something that
we've again looked at inAccelerator.
So it's almost the stuff thatI've kind of forgotten, because
you go from the corporate worldinto the entrepreneur world
where you basically are dealingwith the most urgent thing.
You know it might be an alarm'sgone off so you've got to leave
your office and go and startthe alarm.
It might be that the thing'sfallen through the bathroom
(36:11):
window and you've got to fixthat.
Or a delivery hasn't turned upall these issues that suddenly
hit you, um, but as a mentorsaid to be an accelerator,
you've got to fix that.
Or a delivery hasn't turned upall these issues that suddenly
hit you, but as a mentor set upan accelerator, you've got a GM,
but you're doing that stuff.
Why are you doing that stuff?
You've got a team.
So it's also that delegationresponsibility, but making them
realize it's theirresponsibility.
Jim James (36:29):
And also realizing, I think, that there are new
revenue streams to go after.
I think sometimes it's temptingto keep doing what you're doing
because it's comfortable,because we haven't necessarily
identified the new things orwe've identified them, but don't
feel self-confident enough inthe new role In terms of you
growing Charlie and handling themental toughness that comes
(36:55):
with being an entrepreneur.
Because if you're an employee,you have structure created for
you, you have pay reviews, youhave, you know, discipline and
teams.
As you said, like you had yourboss.
How have you now, if you like,game changed and helped yourself
to become the kind of leaderthat you need to be to grow the
business?
Charlie Taylor (37:16):
I think that's a work in progress.
I definitely don't think I'mthere yet.
Um, I went through quite atough period two years ago,
maybe.
Um, so we we have.
We already have a second venue.
Um, a place came up during covidwhich hadn't been, or at the
end of covid it had been emptyfor a year.
So we, opposite cask on northstreet, we snaffled it up and we
(37:37):
turned it into a pop-uprestaurant, which was exciting
and fun at first.
Um, the actual refurb of thatbecame a nightmare.
Um, because in hindsight thecontractor was having some
issues himself.
So that then led on to me again.
Classic case contractor shouldbe doing the work, wasn't doing
it.
So I'm ending up painting akitchen at three o'clock in the
(38:00):
morning and et cetera, et cetera.
So I was absolutely knackeredon the day of opening and it was
almost well that job was done.
Thank God for that, oh Christ.
Now we've got a second venue weactually need to run.
Got it in a good place, it wasrunning really well.
And got it in a good place, itwas running really well.
And then, unfortunately, we'rerunning pop-ups and
unfortunately two of the pop-upsdidn't pay us the money they
owed us.
Um, so straight away, yourmargin's gone and and and that
(38:24):
really impacts.
I mean it's not just the money,it's also the whole brand was
around us working with chefs inbristol and helping them.
You know, people haven't got avenue.
Helping them have a venue andit will be great and
collaborative.
So when two just walk off anddon't pay the money and you've
got no recourse of actionbecause we can't afford, there's
no point in going after.
(38:44):
You know, paying legal fees,it's just not worth the money.
So that really impacted me fora long time.
Jim James (38:50):
Why did it impact you ?
Was it lack of delivery, theloss of trust, the loss of
self-confidence?
Charlie Taylor (38:55):
loss of trust, loss of money, yeah, and and and
then therefore completelylosing passion in that, in that
project.
But that's the project you'vestill got to pay for, you still
got to pay a rental fee andyou've got energy fees etc.
So that was tough and that wasa good year.
Year and a half of pretty badfeeling, um, yeah, depression
(39:17):
basically.
Um, and ultimately it came downto again, you know,
conversation.
The wife of you've got to getthis sorted, you know we, we
can't continue like this.
This is not enjoyable.
Um, what have we done this for?
You know?
Um, so the fix for me for thathas been exercise, and it's now
a non-negotiable for me that Iexercise every day.
(39:38):
Um, those endorphins you getgreat again, being very briefly
honest, anti-anxiety medication,which I was against for a year
and a half, but actually thecombination of the two have
helped.
And then and I'm not justsaying it because it's for the
podcast the accelerator hasmassively helped with that as
well.
I now have a structure to myweek, coming here on Wednesday,
(40:01):
you know, there's people aroundyou who you can talk to, who may
be going through similar things, and I always leave accelerator
energised for the business.
So that energy.
I get energy from exercise andI get energy from accelerator
and I always leave feeling, oh,actually this is quite an
exciting thing we're doing andfeeling that old me that we used
to have when we set up the car,sort of that pep of going, this
(40:23):
is cool, like this is what Iwant to do.
And I don't want a career job.
I want to do something forourselves.
Jim James (40:33):
There's that sort of middle place, isn't there?
After you started the business,there's all the excitement.
Then a few knocks.
You say, like people lettingyou down, maybe some questioning
your own judgment, feeling abit exhausted physically and
emotionally, but you're too farin to go back right.
And then you talk about theaccelerator giving you energy.
(40:53):
How did you get the energy outof the accelerator?
Because it's just a building,it's just an office.
So what did you do, or whatconversations did you have, to
make this into a restorativeplace for you?
Charlie Taylor (41:07):
So there are the bits I find useful and I
haven't taken advantage ofeverything the accelerator can
offer because you just don'thave time right.
So I realized that prettyquickly.
I need to cherry pick the bitswhich I think are important to
me.
So quite a few of the, thetalks or presentations have been
useful now, 80 of the time.
It's stuff I know and that'snot to sound arrogant, or it's
(41:30):
just stuff I've I've learnedover the 25 years of a career,
but it's a reminder.
It's like, oh christ, I used todo that.
Why haven't I done that for sixyears?
Because you're in the depths ofrunning a business and you
don't think about it.
So the accelerator gives youthat access to information and,
if you like, inspiration, butalso if you work on the business
not in the business at the timeyou're in the accelerator
(41:51):
building you've then freed upthat time to actually do that as
well.
So I I've known for the lastfour years we need a business
plan.
Like we're just kind ofcarrying on, but we need a
business plan.
It only took me half a daywithin the accelerator building
to sit down and write one andthen talk it through with the
guys from NatWest and polish itup a bit Suddenly.
I've got one which now I'vecommunicated to our team and I'm
(42:15):
referring to not every time I'mback in the accelerator, but
maybe every month ago.
Are we actually on track here?
Which we'd never had before?
And it's very easy when you'rerunning that business for time
to move on very quickly and yougo, christ.
Nine months ago I wrote a to-dolist that said write a business
plan, and I haven't done thatyet, and that's kind of to me
what's been rewarding.
Jim James (42:33):
Good and having the sense of a shared journey.
Yeah, I think, um, and you say,business in some respects is
actually not that complicated,it's the reminders and the self
discipline and having someonewho cares, yeah, to go on that
journey with you, I think can beso, so important.
It's so hard to do it on yourown.
So you've got a business planwhat's in the next five years,
(42:56):
charlie, for you and for caskwines?
So the business plan what's inthe next five years, charlie,
for you and for Karsk Wines?
Charlie Taylor (42:59):
So the business plan which I did, I think I
wrote in November.
The business plan has said nextstep is further develop our
corporate tasting revenue stream.
So coming out of COVID, as Isaid, we've done a lot of
tastings.
We now do tastings every weekin Karsk.
We do quite a lot of privatetastings and corporate tastings
(43:24):
for the likes of hargreaves,landstown, etc.
Etc.
That is the best margin um wecan get.
But we've never gone off thatbusiness.
It's always come to us.
We have good, really good seo.
So if you search best winetastings, uk will come up in the
first page.
That's rewarding.
But therefore I know we haven'tactually done, uh, any push
marketing.
I don't know if that's theright term.
Jim James (43:45):
But that's what I'd say.
Charlie Taylor (43:46):
Yeah, outbound marketing, yeah, so that's a big
opportunity for us.
Um, so that was one big thing.
And then that was going to bemy focus the next six months and
then in the business plan wasfind another venue by the end at
the end of this year.
Look for another venue at theend of this year, knowing it'll
probably take six months.
So middle of next year we'llopen another cask.
Things happen.
(44:07):
A venue came up, um available,saw it advertised on facebook,
um, and we thought let's go havea look at it and it's in the
location we'd quite like to bein.
It's a really nice location and, other than a refurb to fit our
brand, it's ready to go interms of equipment et cetera.
So it's relatively easy.
The ease of entry I'm sayingthat we haven't done it yet and
(44:28):
I'm sure there'll be things thatcome along, but the ease of
entry seems, on paper, to bethere, to be there, so we just
flip that around.
We said, actually that's whatwe'll now focus on, but, as I
said earlier, the plan is forour current gm to really take
that on, which still frees me upto focus on the corporate stuff
because, again, I need to keepreminding myself it's nice to
have bricks and mortar and it'sgoing to be great to have a
(44:50):
second venue.
But actually the best marginsare another part of the business
.
But having a second venue northcity, south city, also from a
branding perspective, positionsa brand again higher than just
one bar in bedminster.
It's only all those a reminderoh, those are the wine guys in
bristol.
So then from a tastingperspective we have more
(45:10):
recognition, so it should drivethat business as well couldn't?
Jim James (45:13):
it sounds, charlie, so you have a much more
long-term strategic view of itas a business with different
margin mix, different customergroups.
Charlie Taylor (45:21):
That's the view.
It's then finding the time toexecute it, isn't it?
Because that is the eternalchallenge of saying on paper
that looks great and I'd like tohave an importing arm and I'd
like to do all this and this.
I think what we do now is we doknow now is we want to grow the
business, so it's cask and it'swine-focused venues, but
there's other things around itthat bring in those revenue
(45:43):
streams because ultimately, barsdo not make much money.
Jim James (45:47):
No, but it sounds as though you're doing something
that you believe in and you'reenabling people that would
otherwise either not be able totaste organic wines or naturally
produce wines to access them,but also in a way that's, you
know, very genuine and and andinclusive, which is wonderful
yeah, and and it sounds a bittrite but those community hubs
(46:10):
as well, if you like, on on ourhigh streets which are
struggling, and you know I Ibasically don't want a high
street to just be all charityshops and vape shops.
Charlie Taylor (46:18):
Um, and there's a bristol is very good for that,
supporting independence.
So even on our on north streetalone, there's a lot of
independent bars and restaurantsand people might be surprised
to know that quite a few of usactually work together on I'm
going.
Okay.
Well, to me it's your stateagent model.
If you look at a high street,there are often three estate
agents next to each otherbecause people like to browse
(46:39):
them.
You don't want to be astandalone bar unless you're
very, very, very good.
You want other good bars aroundyou that people then come to
that location and browse.
So quite a few of us on ournorth street will work together
on that, whether it's on sharedmarketing calendars or oh, you
got that on.
Well, if I do that, then morepeople will come to the street
that day.
That, to me, is also animportant part of of that kind
(47:00):
of community and knowing it'snice to see regulars walking in.
You know it's.
We did an event last weekend.
I had a load of regulars andthe feedback we got was great.
And that's the dopamine hit, ifyou like, which kind of gets
you past when you're looking atthe financials you think are we
earning enough?
Jim James (47:14):
yeah, and ultimately that's the joy being
entrepreneurs that you createsomething from nothing and then
when it delivers on the valuesthat you've believed in, then
you get a validation but alsoyou're giving joy to other
people.
That's.
That's sort of greater thanmaybe taking a salary from
someone to deliver that for you.
Charlie, if someone wasthinking about becoming, you
(47:36):
know, part of an accelerator,what would be your, your
thoughts, um, for anentrepreneur looking at joining
an accelerator?
Charlie Taylor (47:45):
well, obviously, I can't say don't do it, but I
would say do it.
I think it's it's it's been,it's been invaluable to me in
terms of where I was at withagain sounds trite with my
journey.
It's been invaluable to go.
Okay, I need to move, I need toaccelerate, I need to do
something here to change thestatus quo, and it's kind of
given me access to resources,access to an environment where
(48:08):
other people are doing it.
Um, and again, I don't thinkI've taken everything from.
I could, but you've got tocherry pick what you've got,
what you've got time for.
Um, and, like I said earlier,the fact what I could, but
you've got to cherry pick whatyou've got time for.
And, like I said earlier, thefact that I leave anytime I come
here, I leave energized andexcited about doing something.
That, to me, is all you need,right?
It's that kick up the ass.
Jim James (48:28):
Charlie Taylor, thank you for coming and sharing your
story with me on the NatWestUnnoticed Entrepreneur Podcast.
Thank you.
Charlie, welcome to the NetWest Unnoticed
Entrepreneur podcast.
Love to learn more about youand the business you've built
here in Bristol Karsk Wines, andthe wine bar that you've been
building.
Charlie Taylor (00:13):
Yeah, so yeah, we've got a bar on North Street
in Bedminster, traditionally thetobacco factory area of Bristol
, so we've seen a fair amount ofgentrification in the last 10,
15 years and I guess putting awine bar on that was, uh, the
final nail in the gentrificationcoffin for four door street.
Um, uh, we focus on, we want tobreak down the barriers of
(00:35):
getting into wine.
It can be inherently a bit of asnobby industry, um, it can be
hard for people to to walk intoa wine bar and feel welcome and
we, we basically want to createa local pub where the main
product happens to be winerather than beer and have that
kind of comfy feel.
Jim James (00:50):
Okay, and then just let's find out why would you
want to do a wine bar in Bristol?
What's your backstory?
So?
Charlie Taylor (00:59):
I'm allergic to alcohol and I own a bar and a
wine business, so I basicallyused to drink a lot of beer,
used to drink a lot of gin, alittle bit of wine, but didn't
know much about it and thenfound increasingly I was uh
having allergic reactions, um,which ended up getting worse and
worse and worse, to the pointwhere now, if I was to have a
(01:19):
glass of Jacob's Creek, uh, aCarling, a Gordon's gin,
anything kind of what I wouldcall industrial alcohol, I'll
sneeze within five minutes, andthen tomorrow I'd be in bed for
the whole day constantlysneezing um.
And then somebody introduced meto to what some people call
natural wine, let's call itorganic wine, minimal
intervention, um, and I suddenlydiscovered I was fine and
(01:42):
didn't have that reaction.
Um, so good news, I could drinkalcohol again and then
discovered more about it.
Really like the ethos.
I like the farming ethos.
I like the fact it'spredominantly made by small
farmers.
Most through the land has beenin families of generations.
They've looked after the land.
So it's another kind of fastfarming and people who care
(02:04):
about the product and the landand then the glass in your hand,
if you like.
Jim James (02:08):
So they kind of got into it that way let's talk
about the business in a littlewhile, but before we do that,
just it's a bit alarming thatwhat you're saying is that you
know wine in the supermarkets istoxic beyond the alcohol, but
that's not a commonunderstanding, is it?
Charlie Taylor (02:25):
yeah, I think we need to be careful.
Not not all wine is that badright, but if you look at, if
you look at the organic foodmovement, um, that's obviously
become very big in the last 20,30 years.
A lot of people don'tunderstand what's in alcohol,
whether it's wine or beer or ginor any other form.
There are potentially,potentially between 60 and 70
(02:48):
different toxins in a bottle ofwine on a supermarket shelf,
whether that's from fungicidesor pesticides or herbicides or
additives, preservatives, acidsugar that are put in the wine
afterwards.
And that's legally allowed.
I think inica it's 76, the fdaallowed.
If that was food that would becalled ultra processed food, but
(03:10):
nobody knows.
Some wine which is dying tocatch on.
But but a lot of people don'tknow that.
So now, for most people that'sfine.
Most people don't havereactions to that.
Some people do, but for me,people should know.
People should know that andhave almost that freedom of
choice.
Jim James (03:25):
Well, you say that there's a choice that comes from
the awareness and the education.
So you're really introducingpeople through your cask wines
and wine bar, to naturallyproduced wines.
Charlie Taylor (03:38):
Yeah, and it's wine how it was always made
before, I think, basicallybefore pesticides came along.
I think from memory pesticideskind of were invented or came
into common use in the 1920s orjust a bit earlier, but became
really common after second worldwar when a lot of farmers
didn't return right so and therewas food shortages, so suddenly
(04:00):
government's farmers had tofast farm quickly.
So then a lot of chemicals werekind of introduced into farming
in the 40s and 50s, um.
So wine historically was madewell, um, and in large parts of
the world, especially thosetraditional areas like bordeaux
or burgundy, they've never usedtoxins in the land, um, because
they haven't.
That's not how they used to doit.
(04:21):
But your industrial stuff, thestuff, let's name them, your
Jacob's Creeks, you know thethings which, if you're buying a
bottle of wine for four quid ina supermarket or in your local
spa, that's probably beingproduced very quickly which is
damaging for the land long-termand potentially harmful to your
body.
You need to be careful.
You don't say it's bad for you,I mean all alcohol is
(04:42):
inherently bad for you.
Say it's bad for you, um, Imean all alcohol's inherently
bad for you, um, so drink inmoderation.
But you know it's important.
People kind of do know that,and for me it's not just about
the, the stuff it may do to yourbody, it's also just that ethos
.
You know, I would.
I would rather drink somethingthat's been made with a bit of
love, um, and love for the land,than than something that's
effectively a commerciallyproduced product being made in a
(05:05):
boardroom somewhere to tick abox.
Jim James (05:08):
So you've got this vision really to start to bring
people, if you like, to naturalwines.
Yeah, partly from your ownstory there of experiencing the
downsides of the toxins that goalongside the alcohol.
Charlie Taylor (05:22):
As an entrepreneur, though, charlie,
you know what brought you intobeing an entrepreneur, because
you could have just franklybought bottles of wine without
having to go around sort oftrying to solve the whole
problem for everybody.
Jim James (05:35):
So why did you decide to become an entrepreneur?
Charlie Taylor (05:38):
So I was living overseas, in Dubai, in a
corporate job.
I'd been head of comms for thetourism board there, then became
head of comms for a hotel group.
We had hotels, kind of, aroundthe world and loved, loved the,
loved the job, loved the career.
It was really exciting.
Myself and my wife had beenmarried and we were.
(05:59):
We just got married in 2018.
Did I get that right 2018.
?
And knew we at some point wewanted to come back to the UK.
Our parents were getting older.
We wanted to be closer tofamily, kind of you start
long-term planning, and I didn'tthink, continuing that career,
I'd find a job as exciting asthe ones we were doing.
(06:21):
Like, okay, now, if I'm evergoing to have a career change,
now's the time.
And I, in my mind, alwaysfancied the idea of having my
own bar.
I'd worked in bars when I was,you know, late teens, early 20s,
um, and I'd done a project forthe hotel group where we had 90
restaurants in dubai and welooked at the bottom performing
third and I worked with theheads of the fmb to look at why
(06:45):
those restaurants might be notdoing so well restaurants and
bars may not be doing so well asothers and how to reinvent them
.
Look at concept, look at whatpeople wanted.
Um, and I'd really enjoyed that.
Um, I'd even said to my my bossat the time I quite fancy
moving into operations, and shehad pointed out that wasn't
great for her head of PR to saythat.
So, um, that was always in mymind.
(07:05):
And then I discovered thenatural wine was in a bar.
On holiday with friends in SanSebastian, where this kind of
bar is common.
You know, mainland Europe.
These are the kind of bars andthose kind of bar you go into
holiday, you go on a easy jetflight and you end up in a cool
little bar.
You stumble across and spendthe evening there and love it,
and we just wanted to do that.
(07:26):
But it just happened to be atthe end of your road in bristol
and that was kind of the dream,if you like.
Jim James (07:31):
And so we set about it okay, so, from from dubai and
the sunny climes of dubai, uh,to the sunny climes of bristol.
Having lived overseas for 25years myself and going back to
the uk in 2019, I completely youknow I'm with you in terms of
the joys of living overseas, butalso the connection that you
have with family and friendswhen you come back.
(07:52):
What were some of thechallenges that you faced?
Because if you've worked for abig company, you've got all the
security, stability theyorganize your email for you and
they pay the credit card for you, and so on.
When you set up a business,you're responsible for
everything.
So take us through some of thechallenges that you've faced.
Charlie Taylor (08:13):
Well, I think the first kind of.
At first, we created theconcept sitting in our villa um
in dubai, right and and, and wedidn't want to move until we
knew we had a location.
Um first challenge was findinga location and we we had't want
to move until we knew we had alocation.
Um first challenge was findinga location and we we had a very
specific list of criteria.
We wanted, um off the top of myhead, kind of top few were be
surrounded by what we callchimney pot, so be in the middle
(08:36):
of a community.
We didn't want city center, wewanted to become a local.
We wanted a group of regulars.
Um, that was important for usboth from, uh, what we wanted if
we were going to be in there,from the joy of knowing people,
but also commercially, havingpeople who are going to come in,
not as a special occasion, comein week in, week out.
Um, we want small things.
We want in the garden, whichI'll come to save this later um
(08:57):
and a few other things and sizeetc.
Not too big, not too smallenough storage um.
So we looked at a lot oflocations online and then,
coming back and forward um alittle bit, um, I had a few fell
through.
So there's your first challengethings.
I'd never done this before,never opened a business before,
never looked for sites.
(09:18):
I remember being on a beach indubai on my birthday.
Um, we had a location allsorted in north bristol and
finally out that day had fallenthrough because something in the
lease we weren't happy withthat changed and the the
landlady wouldn't change.
So coping with thatdisappointment of having that
kind of highs and lows, um, andthen we finally found the right
(09:39):
location, um, so then it'sexcitement and you're planning
for us.
It was.
I talked about the concept.
It's about coming up with theconcept, coming up the brand,
going for all the names, etc.
What's it going to be like?
The interior design um, so thenit's all really exciting.
I missed moving back from dubai,which was, um, there's a story
there, but, um, it was rushed,to say the least.
(10:00):
Um, because that we had a lease, the landlord, basically, we
were arguing, we were appointingthe lease for about three
months and the landlord finallysaid right, I'll agree to that,
but you need to be here tomorrowto sign it, and we were in Lyon
, so a 19-hour bus to get thereto sign it.
Still excitement.
So that first kind of sixmonths, I guess, is exciting.
Jim James (10:22):
It's almost on paper, you're not in the business
reality and were you doing thisfrom Dubai and still working and
trying to start Karsk?
Charlie Taylor (10:31):
yeah, I'd left the corporate job, um, but
myself, my wife had a, someclients over there, some PR and
social media clients, oh, andhospitality, so it was quite
good right to bat off as well,um, but yes, we're doing, doing
the same yeah, I have to ask whyBristol?
Jim James (10:46):
Because, I mean, is it because it's the sunniest
city in England?
It's sunny today.
It's the closest thing to Dubai.
Charlie Taylor (10:54):
My brother lived here.
I owned a bookshop.
We had family, so anytime I'dcome to London quite a lot for
work.
I'd always come to Bristol andloved it and, if you like, it's
the absolute antithesis of Dubai, right, it's independent, the
atmosphere is great.
They support loads of smallindependents, the community vibe
, the music I'm really big intomusic, so everything I loved
(11:15):
about Bristol.
We thought, if we're going tomove and we were coming back to
be a family, so our choices wereup north, where my wife's from
Birmingham, where we got loadsof mates, or Bristol and we
ended up looking at venues inall and settling on Bristol.
Jim James (11:28):
Yeah, lucky for us that you have.
And then talk about community.
You got involved in the NatWestAccelerator and the community
here.
How did you discover?
Charlie Taylor (11:38):
the community.
Yeah.
So I guess we'd been open fiveyears had gone through Brexit
coming in.
We opened six months beforelockdown, survived that which we
might come on to later and ithad never been my plan to have
one bar when we came up with theidea of doing it.
The plan was to have fivewithin five years, to have that
(12:00):
kind of ambition.
As with many people's lives,covid kind of scuppered that.
And then we find ourselves kindof ambition, as with many
people's lives, covid kind ofscuppered, scuppered that, um,
and then we find ourselves kindof three or four years in we're
still where we are, um, and thatwas quite challenging for me
because then you startquestioning have we made the
right decision?
You know from a moneyperspective, uh, what that
affords your lifestyle, but alsofrom a general happiness in
(12:23):
your day-to-day um, and I thinkwe just saw natwest accelerator
advertising.
Right now is the time.
If we're gonna change things.
We need changing now and needthat bit of a spur.
And it felt like a good um, itfelt like a good, a good thing
of doing okay.
Jim James (12:37):
so you joined the accelerator and then, if we look
at what you've been doing withKarsk you talked about COVID.
Let's just talk about how youovercame the challenges, because
that's a great example of whereall entrepreneurs had to think
quick or go home.
Charlie Taylor (12:57):
Yeah, so it was six months.
We'd opened in October I thinkit was March 19th maybe where we
were told we had to close.
And the next day after havingto close, we had a a tasting in
the bar that had sold out, so 30people.
We didn't really want to givethat money back, um, so we
contacted them all and said ifwe can somehow get wine to you
uh, we, we, just as everyone wasjust finding that point a thing
(13:20):
called zoom which we'd neverheard about but if we can get a
signed up for that, get somewine to you.
Do you fancy jumping onlinetomorrow?
And everyone said, yeah, that'sgreat.
So we did that, we, we popped Ithink it was asda, maybe and
popped down and bought somepretty horrible looking plastic
bottles, poured wine into itfrom other big bottles.
It looked like you're, itlooked like we were delivering
urine samples around bedminster,um, on our bikes, dropped at
(13:43):
the door, knocked on the doorand ran away because everyone
was scared that you know you'reabout to get the plague.
The moment somebody came to thedoor, jumped on Zoom and did it
and at the end everyone saidthat was great.
Could we do it again next weekIf we're still locked down.
Can we do it again next week?
Because obviously at.
Jim James (14:02):
When you say did it just help us understand what?
Because they were expected tocome and have a wine tasting?
Yeah, and you were dragging anddropping bottles of kind of
look like urine samples to theirdoor, yeah, and then zooming
them.
So what value are you offeringthem?
Charlie Taylor (14:15):
Well, so we're talking through the wines, right
.
So we do do tastings in the barevery week and introduce new
wines.
For me it's about the winemakerand the stories behind the
winemakers.
It's not getting down and deepinto kind of soil types and the
chemistry, because some peopleare interested in that, but most
people, most people, not.
So it's a storytelling aroundthe wine's provenance and the
(14:35):
winemaker at the time.
Um, as well as being allergic toalcohol when we opened the bar,
I knew nothing about wineliterally nothing.
I discovered it through theallergic reaction, but I didn't
think about it.
But we were.
We opened the bar initiallywith some friends and the
long-term plan for the five barsin five years was they would do
the wine, we would do themarketing and the venue concept
(14:58):
creation, if you like.
Uh, but they lived inbirmingham so they couldn't.
It was covid.
They couldn't get there.
So we spent those first fewmonths of covid with me, a
script behind the laptops and noone could see it on an old
piano stand literally readingoff things but trying to in a
way that seemed natural andblack, basically blagging it
(15:19):
because we had no other option.
Because what?
Jim James (15:20):
we're going to give that money back and not have any
money well, I'm beingresourceful as well as an
entrepreneur, and that point ina way that you don't have to be
an expert.
You just have to be more of anexpert than the client.
Charlie Taylor (15:31):
Or pretend you're more of an expert.
Jim James (15:34):
I wouldn't want to say that in recordings, but this
idea that you were also givingpeople something to do during
lockdown, which presumably meantas much, in a way, as the wine
itself, was the connectivity inthe community that you continue
to yeah, it was that time wheneveryone was doing quizzes,
right, I mean, I spoke to myfamily way more during lockdown
(15:55):
than I've ever spoken to themwhen you're jumping on doing
regular quizzes, and it wasagain.
Charlie Taylor (15:59):
If we some of us don't want to remember back,
but if we remember back, it wasquite a nice warm summer.
It felt like novel to jumponline and get a takeaway and
drink wine and and talk to yourfriends and family.
Um, and we were the alternativeto the, to the quiz.
That quickly people, I think,got bored of doing a quiz online
.
So we were, I guess, thealternative and we grew it and
and luckily we have some wineimporters who who do know about
(16:22):
wine and they were happy to doit as well because it meant they
got, they got the business fromus.
Um, so they would join in anddo it.
But kind of three or four monthsin we realized that wasn't
scalable.
We could do one or two a week,but it wasn't really scalable.
Um, so what could we do next?
So we developed at home tastingkits, so things that didn't
need us to be online.
(16:42):
So it was now look nice andurine samples.
We had the branding on it, we'dgot the cardboard boxes done
and we found the bottles and webranded the bottles and created
little wine cards so every winehad a nicely branded card.
So people could then host theirown parties at home and then
branch out to corporates so thelikes of PwC and Red Bull and
(17:06):
Nike wanting stuff for all theircolleagues that were now
working at home.
So we would do that and thosewere normally where we'd then
host them.
So hosting 150 people on Zoomdoing a wine tasting was
definitely not the most funthing to do.
Jim James (17:20):
Yeah, it can make it quite stressful, but good for
the business.
Yeah, but just backing up alittle bit, because you've
talked about the products andservices you're delivering,
which is really innovative.
But how are you getting thedemand?
Because if it's at lockdown ummarketing background, but you're
in dubai and my experience isyou know if you're in another
(17:41):
country you don't have thenetwork or the profile how are
you driving demand for theofferings?
Charlie Taylor (17:47):
so first we were first to market right.
So literally going back to thatspanish wine tasting, it was
all tickets for.
Within an hour of realizingwe're having to lock down, not
to get money back, we'd contactthem all.
So we did it within a day oflocking down and then we
realized I do used to do a lotof crisis comms because like
okay, what, what do we do inthis scenario?
And my wife, luckily, is verycreative and also in marketing
(18:09):
and social, so we very quicklysaid this might be something we
need to to move quickly on.
So got some good seo behind itin the first weeks of lockdown,
developed our website.
We'd had a very simple one ortwo pager, but very quickly
developed the website as well.
So so people were finding us.
We also you talk about network.
One of our friends from Dubaiwas the digital editor for Vogue
(18:33):
.
So within four weeks oflockdown we had an article in
Vogue about the story ofmovement after Dubai opening a
bar and being locked down.
So that network also helped.
Jim James (18:43):
Okay, yeah, I read that story and I also read a
piece of PR that you were inwhere you talked about people
canceling their bookings.
So was part of the strategy tobe as transparent as you could
be, because potentially you weretaking a risk criticizing your
customers for not showing upwhen they'd booked a table?
Charlie Taylor (19:07):
I think the case you're talking about is a very
recent case.
Yeah, this wasn't the COVIDtime.
I think we always wanted carsto be authentic and we always
wanted, you know, the product'sauthentic, the product is no
chemicals, no bullshit.
You know, we want the same tobe to us Now.
Funny enough, saying that Ilook back now, for the first six
(19:28):
months to a year I was it'svery honest now I was terrified
of people finding out ourbackground, of having worked in
dubai, because there's there's,especially in a city like
bristol, which is very authentic.
A lot of people have negativeviews of dubai and I was
terrified that actually thatstory didn't quite work and and
I knew we were authentic in whatwe were doing.
(19:49):
But you could see some peoplegoing oh, natural wine bar
funded by money and earned indubai.
You know it didn't somethingfor me jarred, I was
unnecessarily worried about it,but it's that kind of thing you
get in your head and you think,oh god, this could, yeah, ruin
us.
It was never going to, but youknow it could ruin us.
And then I did realize later on, actually there's, there's some
authenticity to that as well.
(20:09):
Um, but the brand we wanted tobe authentic, it wanted to be
about us.
We never I talked about kind ofblagging those online taste
things about my knowledge, butwe've never been shy and coming
forward and saying we there's alot to know about wine and we
don't know much about it.
We'll discover it with you andI think actually that's helped
the experience because we wantto appeal to people who we want
(20:30):
to tick the boxes for.
People who know natural winereally well will walk in.
See a bottle on the shelves.
They think god, we can't getthat out anywhere else in
bristol.
This is amazing.
But 80% of people who walkthrough doors are doors and not
those people.
So they're people who arepopping in for a bar because it
looks nice and we don't wantthem to feel the barriers are up
for them discovering the wine.
(20:51):
So a lot of what we do is abouthelping people get through that
first barrier okay, that'sreally nice a that you've got
this idea about authenticity,the.
Jim James (21:00):
It's an interesting issue about the negative bias
that people might carry it andhow you might carry that in your
mind more than the customerdoes.
I want to just go back tosomething.
You talked about thinking ofthe concept, because it's
actually quite a big topic andmany people have got an idea for
a business, but then thepractical implementation might
(21:24):
be a company name or might be alogo.
Practical implementation mightbe a company name or might be a
logo, but how did you and yourwife think about the brand?
Can you give us some steps thatyou went through?
Because there are a lot ofdifferent aspects and often
people need to have thatframework and feel the
confidence that it's all inplace before they go into the
(21:47):
market yeah, yeah, and I think Ithink it's our backgrounds did
help on that.
Charlie Taylor (21:51):
I think you always want two or three things,
as that becomes through lineswhich don't necessarily get
talked about, but you can alwayscome back to it.
Does that tick that box, are we?
Are we true to that value?
So for us it was be a pub.
That just happened to servewine, so, so we want to look
like a pub.
The venue we ended up with onnorth street has been a pub for
(22:14):
150 years, so that inherentlyhelped.
Yeah, um, although we did thenrip it up, rip it apart and
rebuilt it, um, but it lookslike a pub from the outside.
So that that helped.
And then I think that Europeanthing of it's the bar you
discover on holiday, but it justhappens to be at the end of
your street.
That also helped.
(22:34):
So, not over-engineered.
Beautiful interiors, beautifulinside and we get a lot of
comments on that but again, notloads of stainless steel,
organic materials, you know thatkind of thing.
So we knew we wanted that.
The name was it's funny names.
We spent months and months andmonths and months and we found
old spider grams the other dayof some of the names and we
(22:57):
ended up at Karsk because it wasa Karsk house.
The venue we actually found wasa Karsk house, and one of our
core things on sustainability iswe have wine on tap, so we have
wine in tap, so we have winethe bottles, but a lot of our
wine comes in kegs or casks, sothe two kind of came together
right.
So so that was an importantmessage as well, because,
although now there's a fair fewvenues in bristol that have
(23:18):
wines on tap, we were we werethe first ones, um, and the
reason we do that is it's glassis pretty expensive, um, and bad
for the environment.
In terms of shipping around theworld, we get 20 26 bottles in
one cask or keg, um, and you canrecycle those.
So it's it's better for theenvironment, but it's also
better wine for cheaper price.
Jim James (23:39):
Yeah, and that's another key thing as part of
that breaking down the barrier,you want to walk in and see a
five pound glass of wine, um,that's, that's good, um, we can
do that from having that winecoming keg yeah, so you're
making wine much more accessible, to say an idea, sort of
democratic, but making it say apublic experience which feels
much more like continentaleurope, yeah, rather than the
(24:01):
barrier of the sort ofoonologist and who, the
sommelier, comes in and tries tofrankly confuse you and get you
to buy the most expensive wineyou can yeah, and when we were
looking at research we went to alot of bars.
Charlie Taylor (24:12):
We went to london and a few other cities in
the uk.
I looked at where we feltcomfortable walking in and I
remember we're there's a sundaynight in a really good bar in
london really well respected inthe natural wine world.
But we walked in.
There was two of othercustomers there and us and we
sat at the bar and it took 15minutes to get served because
the bartender was just pouringknowledge down this customer's
throat.
We're like mate, we just want aglass.
(24:33):
Yeah, so that's key as well.
It's it's reading the room,reading what do you want.
You might be coming with yourmates on a date and you want a
little bit of treatment and leftalone.
Or you might be coming inbecause you're really interested
and you want us to pour yousomething you would never
normally pick or special andhave that chat.
So a lot of our thing from thestart has always been how would
you read what that customerwants?
(24:54):
And taking some of my hotelbackground and putting into that
, we had a thing the hotel groupI had.
There were some tenants and onewas smile at the guest before
they smile at you and that'ssomething that we've carried
through as well.
So as soon as people walkthrough the door, it's getting
that eye contact and and beingloud like hey, come in.
Jim James (25:14):
You know, it's wine bars can be stuffy and quiet and
we want people to feel verywarm to come in yes, it sounds
so you've really thought through, right, the, the core values of
cask, um, and then it's playingout in, say, the venue, the,
the kind of merchandise and theproduct you're actually offering
to people.
Um, in in terms of being anentrepreneur, because it sounds
(25:35):
like you've already nailed thatconcept and the delivery there.
What have been some of thechallenges that you face?
Where one comes to mind for meis always about cash flow,
because you talk about leaving ajob and then there's six months
, nine months, there's leases,you maybe put deposits down
Meanwhile certainly myexperience the savings are going
(25:57):
down while you're investing inwhat could be a future income.
Charlie, can you just tell us alittle bit about how you've
managed that side of life,because it does come with its
stresses as well?
Charlie Taylor (26:09):
Yeah, it does, and we had left a lifestyle
where the bank balance went upat the end of every month, you
know, and we're able to traveland not really worry about spend
.
So that's part of it and that'sif I do it with my wife, and
although she's got what I call aproper job now and has had for
kind of three or four years, wedid do it together.
So that was a commitmenttogether to do it, and it was
(26:30):
definitely more my dream thanhers, if you like.
So there was there was some ofsupporting behavior from her,
yeah, but then some real toughtimes as well, you know.
So we've had to kind of work onthat together.
In terms of cash flow, again,I'm going to be really honest,
we were lucky.
We had savings built up right,so so when we knew we were going
(26:52):
to be leaving dubai at somepoint, it was okay.
Now let's stop being frivolous,so let's actually put some
things, some things away, um, sothat definitely helped.
So we haven't needed to take ondebt, which I'm really thankful
for.
Yeah, um, it's just notsomething I'd ever want to have
to do.
Um, uh, so, yeah, but, but thatis always an anxiety now
because it's like well that's,was that the right thing to do
(27:14):
five years ago?
That money, should I put thatin stocks and shares?
Should I invest it in property,you know?
And when we have a bad week ora bad month, um, from a cash
perspective, or the governmentintroduced new costs and et
cetera, you go crikey.
Are we playing at running abusiness or is this actually a
business which is good for ourlong term?
(27:34):
And I'm not even sure now Icould answer that, which is part
of what coming to Acceleratorwas for.
Jim James (27:40):
Yeah, let's talk about that because when you
start a business there's alwaysthe opportunity cost of what
you've done with the money right, and if you'd kept the job and
turned up and given the man yourtime and return for the cash,
put it into stocks and shares,as you say, or into a property?
There's always that doubt whena customer doesn't come in or
(28:03):
there's a delay or somethingdoesn't go right.
You talk about the accelerator,charlie.
What, what's been your, if youlike, experience in the
accelerator?
What's helped you get through?
Charlie Taylor (28:12):
so I think the core thing for me was and I
actually didn't mention earlier,but as we've talked, I realized
it.
About a year and a half, twoyears ago I got out of absolute
nowhere, an old contact, I gotoff a job um in saudi, in saudi
arabia, and I I never likedsaudi um, I'd never.
I don't like some of the thingsit stands for.
(28:32):
Um, I had not nothing aboutthat job offer made me want to
go, other than the money.
But the money was really goodand when you're looking at you
know your bank balance notnecessarily going up at the end
of every month you think, god,if I could do this for two years
, that kind of sets us right andmaybe that affords us to open
(28:52):
another bar, et cetera.
So we spent myself and my wifespent about four weeks maybe
talking about it.
She was pretty against it fromthe start and that was a key
thing.
She wasn't going to move, move,so there would have been some
pressure on our relationshipthere, um.
But I realized at the end ofthat kind of four weeks of going
back and forward, my motivationisn't money, which right now is
(29:13):
probably quite a good um, butthat was, and so then at that
point I was like right, I guessI am now in this, I guess this
is what I've chosen to do, atleast for the next kind of 10
years.
So now we need to actually goback to our original plan of
having multiple venues or abusiness around it and not just
one bar.
I don't want to be behind a barpouring wine Well, actually I
(29:36):
do, that's not.
I love to be behind a barpouring wine all the time, but
that's not going to build alifestyle that we want to build.
So it was around that time thatwe saw the accelerator and we
thought, right now, that mightbe the right time to do it, and
so there was that motivationgetting in it.
We did the induction day andstraight away.
There are a few things thatwere said.
Um, from the net worth guys, itreally resonated with me about
(30:00):
working on the business, not inthe business, which, which is
the one line that I thinkeveryone really resonated for me
and I know a lot of people inthe group, which, which is the
one line that I think everyonereally resonated for me and I
know a lot of people in thegroup do as well um, and it's
afforded me the ability to stepaway from the business to.
I say to myself if I'm in on, Icome in every Wednesday, that's
the time I'm not going to doother other things and that's my
(30:21):
time where I'll focus on thebusiness.
So, with accelerators help,we've created a business plan
which we never had.
We had six years ago but havenever re-looked at um, revisited
what my ambitions are, what Iwant to be spending my time
doing, where we want to be infive years time, etc.
Um.
So that's one big tick for methat the accelerator has done um
(30:42):
.
And then being around otherpeople who are of a similar
mindset as well.
You know, I've come from acorporate background where I was
part of a commercial team andhad a vp of revenue and a vp of
sales that I met with every dayand um.
You certainly do your ownbusiness and you're kind of on
your own um.
So the accelerator gives youthose people around you that you
(31:02):
can have a little chat to andbounce ideas off, which is is
really valuable.
Jim James (31:05):
When you joined the Accelerator and then you started
to get into it, what was themindset and, if you like, the
actions that you needed to take?
That were different from, ifyou like, running it on your own
.
Now you want to run five, sixand build up cask wines.
What are some of the practicalsteps that you're needing to
(31:26):
take and that you've gotguidance on?
Do you think?
Charlie Taylor (31:29):
well, I think the first step is is going.
If you're going to grow, youcan't do everything yourself.
Um, so in the last six months,so I've been an accelerator now
for maybe nine months.
In the last kind of three tosix months it's been right.
What can my team do?
And we, we're lucky I say luckybecause in hospitality it's very
rare to keep staff for too longbecause it's a low-paying
(31:51):
industry.
We're lucky that our GM has beenwith us since we opened and I
definitely was guilty of notdelegating and he's got talent
there that I hadn't been tappinginto but also desire to do it.
And actually my realizationpoint of that was I realized
actually he's at flight risk andif he leaves I can't grow this
(32:13):
business because I'm going tohave to go back and do that or
train somebody up.
So that delegation role so he'snow got a completely different
job role than he had six monthsago, seems to be loving it and
we are hopefully about to sign alease on a new venue.
Um, and he's been involved inthat from the start, including
(32:34):
the decision to do it.
So include we looking at thevenue, saying, right, is this
now the right time?
Can we do this as a group ofpeople.
It's just the right time.
So he's and he'll project,manage that, so that gives him a
new lease of life as wellwithin the business.
Jim James (32:48):
That also gives me skills which I don't have when
you do that, though, you startto take on the overhead.
Yeah, and the the reason thatmost of us try and do the work
is we think, well, I'll save abit of money by doing it myself.
What does that mean for you interms of how you see yourself,
um, as a business owner ratherthan a business doer?
Charlie Taylor (33:12):
that that and it's that's a hard shift in
itself right, especially withwith him, because we've got five
and a half years of arelationship built up where now
that dynamics got to change andhe's we've always had a flat
structure but actually as wegrow, he's going to have to be
focused on profit and and lossand turnover, which he's never
had before, which thereforemeans I'm going to have to be a
(33:34):
bit maybe harder on him, not asfor want of a better term, um,
and and that's a hard shift togo from being very flat
structured, almost colleagues,to a.
There's now a relationship herewhere you're going to be
motivated by a bonus etc.
Which you know, and thereforeyou know I might have to come
down hard on you at all, orthat's hard, and that's what I'm
kind of going for at the moment.
(33:54):
But there's some mentors withinthe natwest acceleration
environment that are kind ofhelping, helping with that as
well okay, because I was goingto say the.
Jim James (34:02):
the biggest challenge as you grow a business is to
grow yourself as an entrepreneur.
You, we all, get comfortable incertain roles, certain kind of
work, certain kind ofconversations that we might have
, and my experience as well isthat the people around me get
used to playing me in that kindof role and you need some
support to.
If you like, train and work outdifferently, don't you?
(34:24):
Yeah.
If you like, train and work outdifferently, don't you yeah?
What have you been doing nowwith cask wine to start to grow
it beyond the?
You talk about the one and wantto have five.
What sort of systems are youneeding to put in place to
realize the ambition to have abusiness that you own rather
than a business you work in?
Charlie Taylor (34:45):
Well.
So one thing that's it's goingto be a buzzword coming up, but
one thing that Accelerator.
We've done some training on AI,so and again I brought it into
the GM's role, which is notsomething I knew he'd feel
comfortable with, but brought itin and say, okay, what can we
do on a daily basis?
What are we doing on a dailybasis that AI could do for us?
So he creates some efficienciesthere and actually we both kind
(35:09):
of embrace that once we gotover that initial hurdle.
Now it's something that my wife, who works in an agency, has
been telling me for a year, andevery day I'd say do you know
how to do this?
Just get chat GPT to AI, andI'd always been resistant to it
and I don't know why.
Come into Accelerator.
You hear a third party tell youand you go oh yeah, that seems
(35:30):
like quite a good idea actually.
So I should have been doing itfor the last year.
So, looking at how we cancreate efficiencies, looking at
how I'm spending my time, we dida presentation in Accelerator
where we did a day on your diarymanagement and it was something
I used to be really good at ina corporate world because my
boss was great at it aboutmanaging your own diary and not
(35:51):
letting somebody manage it foryou, and that's something that
we've again looked at inAccelerator.
So it's almost the stuff thatI've kind of forgotten, because
you go from the corporate worldinto the entrepreneur world
where you basically are dealingwith the most urgent thing.
You know it might be an alarm'sgone off so you've got to leave
your office and go and startthe alarm.
It might be that the thing'sfallen through the bathroom
(36:11):
window and you've got to fixthat.
Or a delivery hasn't turned upall these issues that suddenly
hit you, um, but as a mentorsaid to be an accelerator,
you've got to fix that.
Or a delivery hasn't turned upall these issues that suddenly
hit you, but as a mentor set upan accelerator, you've got a GM,
but you're doing that stuff.
Why are you doing that stuff?
You've got a team.
So it's also that delegationresponsibility, but making them
realize it's theirresponsibility.
Jim James (36:29):
And also realizing, I think, that there are new
revenue streams to go after.
I think sometimes it's temptingto keep doing what you're doing
because it's comfortable,because we haven't necessarily
identified the new things orwe've identified them, but don't
feel self-confident enough inthe new role In terms of you
growing Charlie and handling themental toughness that comes
(36:55):
with being an entrepreneur.
Because if you're an employee,you have structure created for
you, you have pay reviews, youhave, you know, discipline and
teams.
As you said, like you had yourboss.
How have you now, if you like,game changed and helped yourself
to become the kind of leaderthat you need to be to grow the
business?
Charlie Taylor (37:16):
I think that's a work in progress.
I definitely don't think I'mthere yet.
Um, I went through quite atough period two years ago,
maybe.
Um, so we we have.
We already have a second venue.
Um, a place came up during covidwhich hadn't been, or at the
end of covid it had been emptyfor a year.
So we, opposite cask on northstreet, we snaffled it up and we
(37:37):
turned it into a pop-uprestaurant, which was exciting
and fun at first.
Um, the actual refurb of thatbecame a nightmare.
Um, because in hindsight thecontractor was having some
issues himself.
So that then led on to me again.
Classic case contractor shouldbe doing the work, wasn't doing
it.
So I'm ending up painting akitchen at three o'clock in the
(38:00):
morning and et cetera, et cetera.
So I was absolutely knackeredon the day of opening and it was
almost well that job was done.
Thank God for that, oh Christ.
Now we've got a second venue weactually need to run.
Got it in a good place, it wasrunning really well.
And got it in a good place, itwas running really well.
And then, unfortunately, we'rerunning pop-ups and
unfortunately two of the pop-upsdidn't pay us the money they
owed us.
Um, so straight away, yourmargin's gone and and and that
(38:24):
really impacts.
I mean it's not just the money,it's also the whole brand was
around us working with chefs inbristol and helping them.
You know, people haven't got avenue.
Helping them have a venue andit will be great and
collaborative.
So when two just walk off anddon't pay the money and you've
got no recourse of actionbecause we can't afford, there's
no point in going after.
(38:44):
You know, paying legal fees,it's just not worth the money.
So that really impacted me fora long time.
Jim James (38:50):
Why did it impact you ?
Was it lack of delivery, theloss of trust, the loss of
self-confidence?
Charlie Taylor (38:55):
loss of trust, loss of money, yeah, and and and
then therefore completelylosing passion in that, in that
project.
But that's the project you'vestill got to pay for, you still
got to pay a rental fee andyou've got energy fees etc.
So that was tough and that wasa good year.
Year and a half of pretty badfeeling, um, yeah, depression
(39:17):
basically.
Um, and ultimately it came downto again, you know,
conversation.
The wife of you've got to getthis sorted, you know we, we
can't continue like this.
This is not enjoyable.
Um, what have we done this for?
You know?
Um, so the fix for me for thathas been exercise, and it's now
a non-negotiable for me that Iexercise every day.
(39:38):
Um, those endorphins you getgreat again, being very briefly
honest, anti-anxiety medication,which I was against for a year
and a half, but actually thecombination of the two have
helped.
And then and I'm not justsaying it because it's for the
podcast the accelerator hasmassively helped with that as
well.
I now have a structure to myweek, coming here on Wednesday,
(40:01):
you know, there's people aroundyou who you can talk to, who may
be going through similar things, and I always leave accelerator
energised for the business.
So that energy.
I get energy from exercise andI get energy from accelerator
and I always leave feeling, oh,actually this is quite an
exciting thing we're doing andfeeling that old me that we used
to have when we set up the car,sort of that pep of going, this
(40:23):
is cool, like this is what Iwant to do.
And I don't want a career job.
I want to do something forourselves.
Jim James (40:33):
There's that sort of middle place, isn't there?
After you started the business,there's all the excitement.
Then a few knocks.
You say, like people lettingyou down, maybe some questioning
your own judgment, feeling abit exhausted physically and
emotionally, but you're too farin to go back right.
And then you talk about theaccelerator giving you energy.
(40:53):
How did you get the energy outof the accelerator?
Because it's just a building,it's just an office.
So what did you do, or whatconversations did you have, to
make this into a restorativeplace for you?
Charlie Taylor (41:07):
So there are the bits I find useful and I
haven't taken advantage ofeverything the accelerator can
offer because you just don'thave time right.
So I realized that prettyquickly.
I need to cherry pick the bitswhich I think are important to
me.
So quite a few of the, thetalks or presentations have been
useful now, 80 of the time.
It's stuff I know and that'snot to sound arrogant, or it's
(41:30):
just stuff I've I've learnedover the 25 years of a career,
but it's a reminder.
It's like, oh christ, I used todo that.
Why haven't I done that for sixyears?
Because you're in the depths ofrunning a business and you
don't think about it.
So the accelerator gives youthat access to information and,
if you like, inspiration, butalso if you work on the business
not in the business at the timeyou're in the accelerator
(41:51):
building you've then freed upthat time to actually do that as
well.
So I I've known for the lastfour years we need a business
plan.
Like we're just kind ofcarrying on, but we need a
business plan.
It only took me half a daywithin the accelerator building
to sit down and write one andthen talk it through with the
guys from NatWest and polish itup a bit Suddenly.
I've got one which now I'vecommunicated to our team and I'm
(42:15):
referring to not every time I'mback in the accelerator, but
maybe every month ago.
Are we actually on track here?
Which we'd never had before?
And it's very easy when you'rerunning that business for time
to move on very quickly and yougo, christ.
Nine months ago I wrote a to-dolist that said write a business
plan, and I haven't done thatyet, and that's kind of to me
what's been rewarding.
Jim James (42:33):
Good and having the sense of a shared journey.
Yeah, I think, um, and you say,business in some respects is
actually not that complicated,it's the reminders and the self
discipline and having someonewho cares, yeah, to go on that
journey with you, I think can beso, so important.
It's so hard to do it on yourown.
So you've got a business planwhat's in the next five years,
(42:56):
charlie, for you and for caskwines?
So the business plan what's inthe next five years, charlie,
for you and for Karsk Wines?
Charlie Taylor (42:59):
So the business plan which I did, I think I
wrote in November.
The business plan has said nextstep is further develop our
corporate tasting revenue stream.
So coming out of COVID, as Isaid, we've done a lot of
tastings.
We now do tastings every weekin Karsk.
We do quite a lot of privatetastings and corporate tastings
(43:24):
for the likes of hargreaves,landstown, etc.
Etc.
That is the best margin um wecan get.
But we've never gone off thatbusiness.
It's always come to us.
We have good, really good seo.
So if you search best winetastings, uk will come up in the
first page.
That's rewarding.
But therefore I know we haven'tactually done, uh, any push
marketing.
I don't know if that's theright term.
Jim James (43:45):
But that's what I'd say.
Charlie Taylor (43:46):
Yeah, outbound marketing, yeah, so that's a big
opportunity for us.
Um, so that was one big thing.
And then that was going to bemy focus the next six months and
then in the business plan wasfind another venue by the end at
the end of this year.
Look for another venue at theend of this year, knowing it'll
probably take six months.
So middle of next year we'llopen another cask.
Things happen.
(44:07):
A venue came up, um available,saw it advertised on facebook,
um, and we thought let's go havea look at it and it's in the
location we'd quite like to bein.
It's a really nice location and, other than a refurb to fit our
brand, it's ready to go interms of equipment et cetera.
So it's relatively easy.
The ease of entry I'm sayingthat we haven't done it yet and
(44:28):
I'm sure there'll be things thatcome along, but the ease of
entry seems, on paper, to bethere, to be there, so we just
flip that around.
We said, actually that's whatwe'll now focus on, but, as I
said earlier, the plan is forour current gm to really take
that on, which still frees me upto focus on the corporate stuff
because, again, I need to keepreminding myself it's nice to
have bricks and mortar and it'sgoing to be great to have a
(44:50):
second venue.
But actually the best marginsare another part of the business
.
But having a second venue northcity, south city, also from a
branding perspective, positionsa brand again higher than just
one bar in bedminster.
It's only all those a reminderoh, those are the wine guys in
bristol.
So then from a tastingperspective we have more
(45:10):
recognition, so it should drivethat business as well couldn't?
Jim James (45:13):
it sounds, charlie, so you have a much more
long-term strategic view of itas a business with different
margin mix, different customergroups.
Charlie Taylor (45:21):
That's the view.
It's then finding the time toexecute it, isn't it?
Because that is the eternalchallenge of saying on paper
that looks great and I'd like tohave an importing arm and I'd
like to do all this and this.
I think what we do now is we doknow now is we want to grow the
business, so it's cask and it'swine-focused venues, but
there's other things around itthat bring in those revenue
(45:43):
streams because ultimately, barsdo not make much money.
Jim James (45:47):
No, but it sounds as though you're doing something
that you believe in and you'reenabling people that would
otherwise either not be able totaste organic wines or naturally
produce wines to access them,but also in a way that's, you
know, very genuine and and andinclusive, which is wonderful
yeah, and and it sounds a bittrite but those community hubs
(46:10):
as well, if you like, on on ourhigh streets which are
struggling, and you know I Ibasically don't want a high
street to just be all charityshops and vape shops.
Charlie Taylor (46:18):
Um, and there's a bristol is very good for that,
supporting independence.
So even on our on north streetalone, there's a lot of
independent bars and restaurantsand people might be surprised
to know that quite a few of usactually work together on I'm
going.
Okay.
Well, to me it's your stateagent model.
If you look at a high street,there are often three estate
agents next to each otherbecause people like to browse
(46:39):
them.
You don't want to be astandalone bar unless you're
very, very, very good.
You want other good bars aroundyou that people then come to
that location and browse.
So quite a few of us on ournorth street will work together
on that, whether it's on sharedmarketing calendars or oh, you
got that on.
Well, if I do that, then morepeople will come to the street
that day.
That, to me, is also animportant part of of that kind
(47:00):
of community and knowing it'snice to see regulars walking in.
You know it's.
We did an event last weekend.
I had a load of regulars andthe feedback we got was great.
And that's the dopamine hit, ifyou like, which kind of gets
you past when you're looking atthe financials you think are we
earning enough?
Jim James (47:14):
yeah, and ultimately that's the joy being
entrepreneurs that you createsomething from nothing and then
when it delivers on the valuesthat you've believed in, then
you get a validation but alsoyou're giving joy to other
people.
That's.
That's sort of greater thanmaybe taking a salary from
someone to deliver that for you.
Charlie, if someone wasthinking about becoming, you
(47:36):
know, part of an accelerator,what would be your, your
thoughts, um, for anentrepreneur looking at joining
an accelerator?
Charlie Taylor (47:45):
well, obviously, I can't say don't do it, but I
would say do it.
I think it's it's it's been,it's been invaluable to me in
terms of where I was at withagain sounds trite with my
journey.
It's been invaluable to go.
Okay, I need to move, I need toaccelerate, I need to do
something here to change thestatus quo, and it's kind of
given me access to resources,access to an environment where
(48:08):
other people are doing it.
Um, and again, I don't thinkI've taken everything from.
I could, but you've got tocherry pick what you've got,
what you've got time for.
Um, and, like I said earlier,the fact what I could, but
you've got to cherry pick whatyou've got time for.
And, like I said earlier, thefact that I leave anytime I come
here, I leave energized andexcited about doing something.
That, to me, is all you need,right?
It's that kick up the ass.
Jim James (48:28):
Charlie Taylor, thank you for coming and sharing your
story with me on the NatWestUnnoticed Entrepreneur Podcast.
Thank you.
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