July 15, 2025 • 30 mins
The traditional office lease is quietly strangling business growth. Frank Cottle realized this four decades ago when he pioneered the flexible workspace concept that has now evolved into Alliance Virtual Offices—a global network of 1,500+ premium locations serving over 200,000 corporate clients.
Frank's journey began with a simple observation: the rigid structures of commercial real estate were fundamentally misaligned with the dynamic nature of modern business. "A company without flexibility today is not going to last very long," he explains, highlighting how traditional leases function as debt instruments that limit growth potential and capital access.
This reality becomes especially clear when entrepreneurs pitch to investors. Those burdening their balance sheets with long-term leases and office infrastructure expenses receive substantially less favorable treatment than those embracing flexible solutions.
The concept Frank calls "just-in-time real estate" represents a profound shift in thinking about workspace. Rather than renting square footage, Alliance Virtual Offices provides comprehensive business services—everything between the carpet and ceiling, including reception, telephony, meeting facilities, and administrative support.
This approach scales precisely with business needs, whether you're a solo attorney needing a prestigious address and occasional meeting room, or a multinational requiring a custom network across dozens of locations.
What makes this model truly revolutionary is how it democratizes opportunity. Young entrepreneurs priced out of expensive commercial districts can now establish their businesses with London Cavendish Square or Singapore CBD addresses from just £70 monthly. Remote teams can coordinate global operations without committing to facilities they might outgrow within months.
Even Fortune 1000 companies and government agencies have embraced this model to shed unnecessary real estate obligations while maintaining operational effectiveness.
As someone who values working from home and dislikes commuting, Frank h
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim James (00:00):
Like so many people that are running their
businesses, you need theflexibility of locations where
you want to do work, but youdon't want to maybe have the
cost and the expense of rentingan office full time.
My guest today has been apioneer in the flexible
workspace for over 40 years.
He manages over 1,500 locationsaround the world and he has an
(00:22):
amazing offer that I would lovefor you to hear about, because
he's going to solve a hugenumber of problems for you and
me and everybody that needs aplace to be.
Frank Cuddle is the founder andCEO of Alliance Virtual
Officers, joining us from hishome, actually in Fort Worth in
Texas.
Frank, welcome to the show.
Frank Cottle (00:41):
Thank you, Jim.
Great to be here.
Great to be here Welcome to theshow.
Jim James (00:45):
Thank you, jim.
Great to be here.
Great to be here.
Frank, you solve a problem andyou've been doing this for
nearly 40 years which is to givebusiness owners and enterprises
a place to work when they'regrowing, when they're expanding,
without some of the commitmentsof fixed tenancies and so on.
So you really give them freedomto grow at a variable cost.
(01:06):
Tell us about the origin of thebusiness and which kind of
entrepreneurs you serve andwhere.
Frank Cottle (01:13):
Gosh.
Well, we started actually as aproperty company back in 1979,
80.
And we were building buildingsthat were purpose-built at that
time to host and house what werethen called executive suites.
And the purpose of theexecutive suite was the original
pre-business center,pre-serviced office,
pre-coworking brand from anindustry point of view.
(01:36):
That provided flexibleworkspace.
And our purpose in buildingbuildings was really land
banking.
We wanted to put the smallestbuilding on the biggest piece of
dirt possible, but withentitlement to go up eight or
ten times.
So that was our theory andthese funny little things called
(01:56):
executive suites generated themost revenue per square foot of
any commercial real estate wecould figure out.
So it was just a gamble.
Honestly, it was just a gamble.
It was a lot of fun and webuilt buildings and did
management contracts with otherdevelopers for about 10 years
and then we started building ourown projects on a leasehold
(02:17):
basis, just like IWG, regus,many others do, that you're all
familiar with.
We decided by the time we'd donethat and gotten fairly large,
we decided that it was not agood business model, that the
balance sheet of keepingcontinuing to add the long-term
liability of the leasehold debtwas destroying the corporate
(02:40):
valuation of the company orholding it back, I should say.
So we said well, there's thesefunny companies called Expedia
this is in the mid late 90s, youknow Travelocity different
things.
We said we actually want to ownthe customer instead of the
facilities.
We don't want to own facilitiesanymore.
So we sold all of ourfacilities and we built a
technology and an inventoryplatform that today that was
(03:04):
pre-Airbnb days.
Today we service over 200,000corporate clients on a global
basis and it's proven to bequite good for everybody.
We are location or facilityagnostic in that we have certain
standards, very high qualityservice standards, that we
require, sort of a best hotelsof the world approach, rather
(03:27):
than an anybody and everybodyapproach, and that has kept us
to have very low turnover churnrates by comparison to others.
And it's really it's all aboutthe customer.
It's just about service andflexibility.
About the customer.
(03:49):
It's just about service andflexibility.
If you were to think on yourown for a second, you know, go
back a few years.
Let's just go back pre-pandemic.
Make it simple.
All companies needed two thingsNeeded a great product and
access to capital so they canscale it.
Boom, pandemic hit.
What do they need now?
Flexibility.
A company without flexibilitytoday is not going to last very
(04:13):
long, so you have to have thecapacity to manage a workplace
that's distributed moreeffectively.
That is global.
That's distributed moreeffectively, that is global.
You're always going to have anemployee or a partner or a
financial source or a customerthat's not in your own backyard
(04:34):
today, and you've got to be ableto do it quickly and you have
to be able to do it withshort-term commitment.
Hence Alliance Virtual Officesdoes that for a broad
cross-section of customersentrepreneurs, startups, branch
offices of regional companies,primarily media and tech in that
(04:58):
regard, the legal, accountingand financial services
professions, big part of ourbusiness, that whole sector is
going more and more flexibleCorporates, the Global Fortune
1000, and even government, eventhe US federal government in
that regard, uses products andservices from a company, from
our company, and it's all aboutflex.
(05:22):
It's really quite simple andit's all about flex.
Jim James (05:26):
It's really quite simple.
Yeah, well, it is, though, asyou say, the underlying
economics of it are that peoplehave, I guess, shorter and
shorter windows.
I mean, when we started workback in the early 90s, people
would plan annually, right, andthen they started to do
quarterly reporting, and thennow things turn on a dime, don't
they reporting?
And then now things turn on adime, don't they?
You say COVID, but also stockprices come and go so quickly
(05:51):
that locking yourself into alease is well, probably for me
as an entrepreneur in Singapore,was one of the largest
commitments.
It's a marriage to a propertythat you don't know whether your
business is going to grow tothe same amount or outsize that
property.
Frank Cottle (06:06):
No, and a lease is a debt instrument.
It's a debt, it's an obligationthat you have to pay and that
you're legally obligated to pay.
So if you sign a 10-year lease,the first 12 months is an
expense, but the next nine yearsgoes on to your balance sheet
(06:27):
as debt, and that restricts yourgrowth, that restricts your
ability to raise capital overall.
And no one knows I don't knowwhat's going to happen five
years from now, three years fromnow, let alone nine.
So I don't want to be like JPMorgan with hundreds and
(06:49):
hundreds of thousands of unusedsquare feet of leasehold space
in Manhattan, telling everybodythey have to go back to their
office to save the corporateculture.
You know, I don't think theyhave a culture to begin with if
they have to be in an office todeal with it, but that's a
personal opinion.
So we don't know the future,except that you're going to have
(07:13):
to be capable of change.
So why lock yourself in?
It's really quite simpleproblem that we solved, and the
fact that we're servicing a widevariety of customers in a huge
cross section of industries anddifferent sizes of customers
(07:38):
demonstrates that we're not soparticularly clever as a company
, but that there is an actualneed for the product that we
produce.
Jim James (07:48):
And on the website, which is
alliancevirtualofficiescom,you'll see Frank's global reach
and his office is in establishedcenters like New York, for
example, isn't it, frank?
But also, you've got Bristolclose to home, where I am, and
you've got Singapore Bristolclose to home, where I am, and
you've got Singapore.
So an entrepreneur or amid-sized company could sign up
(08:08):
in one location.
Could they then go and travelto those other offices?
Are you giving them thatfreedom and flexibility to
travel within the network?
Frank Cottle (08:17):
Not on a free basis.
It's not free.
Jim James (08:20):
I wasn't expecting it to be free, but you don't have
to try and look for an officeevery time you travel.
Frank Cottle (08:24):
presumably we have a reservation system.
Jim James (08:29):
You mentioned, frank, that you're serving
multinationals, some also somegovernments and so on, and also
the entrepreneur class.
How are they different?
Do they sit side by side?
Are there different offeringsfor those two groups?
Frank Cottle (08:45):
Yes, Excuse me?
Yes, there can be.
Some clients require veryspecific technology issues.
They require a customizednetwork of locations that has
very specific technology,primarily around security for
communications, etc.
Some entrepreneurial clientsare really just concerned with
efficiency and cost.
Entrepreneurial clients arereally just concerned with
(09:07):
efficiency and cost.
Legal accounting professionalsfinancial services professionals
are very concerned with caliberof front desk service.
They're dealing with theirclients and you know the
receptionist isn't there to makeour client happy.
They're there to make ourclient's client happy.
So there's a differentiation onthe user types.
But the overarching need isflexibility that combines
(09:28):
clerical, secretarial,administrative support, live
reception support, telephonysystems and services, live
receptionists in terms oftelephony and answering machines
or answering support, meetingand conference room, av support
really whatever you need tomanage and run a business on an
hourly, daily, weekly, monthlyor annual contract.
Jim James (09:52):
So really, you do get to be that granular, don't you?
If you're allowing people tohave an hourly, weekly, monthly,
quarterly, annual, then I guessyour ethos is around this
flexibility, isn't it?
That you're liberating the cashfor the entrepreneur, the
business, to use to grow thecompany, rather than lock it
into giving the landlord, whichis really what that was about
(10:15):
before.
Frank Cottle (10:15):
Well, let's use an entrepreneur as an example.
Give you a good, a simpleexample.
Jim, you're an entrepreneur,I'm an entrepreneur.
We're going to go pitch aventure capitalist together.
Jim James (10:26):
Okay.
Frank Cottle (10:26):
Let's do it.
Yeah, we each have our owncompany, we each need a million
dollars.
And I go in first, I'm brave.
So I go in first and I throw mypitch deck down on the VC's
desk and I say, hey, here's myidea.
The VC says, yeah, it's areally great idea.
What are you going to do withthe money?
I said, oh, I'm going to get anoffice, I'm going to hire a
receptionist and a secretary andI've got to get some imaging
(10:50):
equipment and some furniture.
And then I'm going to hire someengineers and build this
product.
And you walk in and he says,hey, james, love Jim, I love
your product, love this.
What are you going to do withthe money?
Say, oh, I'm going to go take aflexible workspace, hire some
engineers and build the product.
Who's going to get the money?
You are Not me.
In today's world, mitigation ofrisk at the investment level so
(11:16):
that you can start a company isone of the biggest factors that
isn't always considered Focusedon the product.
They're focused on how tolaunch their product.
They aren't thinking about howto run the company necessarily,
but how you run your companybasically defines how you can
(11:36):
manage your capital that youreceive and that will determine
the risk factor, and the riskfactor will determine the
investment.
Jim James (11:45):
Well, and also, frank , if you were raising money, as
I did back in 98 in Singapore,and you have a certain amount of
money goes into office refurband rental, you have to take
more cash which, in effect, isvery expensive because you're
diluting your equity just to getmoney to give to the landlord
to refurb.
Frank Cottle (12:03):
Right, you dilute your own equity when you do that
.
If you're an entrepreneur andyou need more cash that you have
to give to somebody else and soif you can preserve that, you
can basically create a debt-freecashflow management company at
a higher level of efficiency.
And what companies arerealizing today?
Large companies and theyrealized an awful lot of it was
(12:26):
happening just pre-pandemic.
During pandemic, a lot ofpeople said you know, we don't
really need all this space, wedon't need it all.
Some companies are locked infor 10 or 15 years or they own
their own buildings and it's noteasy to flex.
But a lot of them said well,our next generation of model is
going to be quite different andwe're seeing that evolution on
(12:49):
the corporate side today and oneof the solutions that the
flexible workspace industry notjust us, but other larger
companies as well we createcustom networks of facilities
for single customers.
My largest customer has 117facilities.
I think it is right now insideof a custom design network with
(13:11):
a specific product just for thatcompany.
Jim James (13:15):
Take us through that, frank.
Does that mean like brandedspace, because maybe they want
corporate?
Frank Cottle (13:19):
identity.
No, not branded space we don'tbrand space for others but fully
service space on a contractedbasis, and that's not the amount
of space they use but thefacility structure.
That's a multi-year contract,so secure for us, flexible for
them, and it's just an ongoingmodel that has changed and the
(13:41):
amount of debt they're able toshed or not take on in leasehold
debt allows them and theirinvestors to create more access
to capital and the company'sjust growing magically.
Jim James (13:56):
And suppose it a parallel might be with contract
manufacturer, isn't it that youdon't necessarily own the
manufacturing process, likeapple?
Frank Cottle (14:05):
it really comes down to the just-in-time
inventory and intermodal system.
You know that started in theearly 90s.
So this is just-in-time realestate, if you will, or
just-in-time real estate, if youwill, or just-in-time officing,
and we don't think of theactivity of officing as being a
real estate issue.
It's a service issue.
It really is a service issueBecause you don't rent in a
(14:34):
flexible workspace facility orin a virtual officing structure
like we promote.
You don't rent square footage,you contract for services almost
on a cubic footage basis.
It's everything between thecarpet and the ceiling,
including the people, theequipment, the furniture, etc.
Everything necessary to run abusiness.
(14:55):
So it's not a terribly newtheory.
We've been doing this since 79,80, but it's one that is
continuously evolving and it'squite exciting actually.
Jim James (15:06):
It is, and when you look at it in terms of
just-in-time real estate,just-in-time property, it really
makes it seem so logical, frank, and why anyone was renting and
refurbing.
I guess there's the idea ofowning and having your name on
the door, but you can also helpentrepreneurs, for example, to
register their company in thatlocation.
That's maybe one of thedifferences with, for example,
(15:28):
some of these co-sharingworkspaces that are really kind
of almost like they're almost aStarbucks, but with more privacy
, aren't they?
With Alliance, you actuallygive people the opportunity to
register their company, havemail sent there and so on, which
is, I think, yes, theregistered agent.
Frank Cottle (15:44):
We service on behalf of other entity formation
companies probably 150,000entities someplace in that range
right now and it grows everymonth.
So it just is an ongoingprocess that part of the
business grows based on.
If you look at the littletidbit of facts here, if you
(16:04):
look at entity formations,entity formations almost
parallel grow with the growth ofa national economy.
So if the UK economy or the USeconomy is growing at 2%, then
the number of entities formedyear over year will grow at
about 2% and the life cycle ofan entity is around six and a
(16:27):
half seven years and that soundslike wait.
They should be longer.
But when you think of all thestartups that don't really they
form an entity and they don'treally do anything and then two
years later they've disappeared,it's a very high churn rate at
the front end and a very longlife cycle at the back end.
It's about six seven years.
So if you look at that as astability say, I can grow a
(16:49):
company that services this groupbased on the growth of the
economies of the nations thatI'm serving within and I've got
about a seven-year life cycle onthe customers on that growth.
And in the US right now thereare around 37, 38 million
entities, so your churn rate onnew customer prospects is around
(17:12):
6, 7 million new prospectsevery year and it grows at about
3%.
Jim James (17:17):
Right and they're coming in and registering new
companies and getting from youthat flexible workspace.
And I was looking in terms ofpricing.
It was like in London about$100, 70 pounds a month for a
Northwest one, for a Cavendishaddress, which is great, right.
So central London at a very lowrent and then you can go in and
use those services.
Just so that you know me andothers can listen and say listed
(17:40):
companies, the professions,legal accounting the financial
services branch offices.
Frank Cottle (18:00):
You might be in London but need an office in
Edinburgh for branch officeservices.
And then entrepreneurs and theindividual ratio of those
changes market by market.
So in the United States we havemore larger and
government-related companies instate capitals where they need
(18:24):
something, a representation, orin our national capital, in
Washington DC, there's aconcentration of that type of
company.
If you look at large corporates, you would think they'd be
concentrated in places like NewYork or Chicago or Dallas or LA.
They really aren't, becausethat's where their corporate
headquarters is.
So when you look at where theirbranch offices, where their
(18:48):
regional branch offices orservice offices are, that's
where they concentrate the useof flexible officing etc.
So each group is a little bitdifferent.
Jim James (18:59):
And I think the point that I was getting when I
looked at your website is thatpeople can move in quickly with
a minimum fixed fee and no heftylease to exit.
Frank, what happens for theentrepreneur that doesn't go
down the path of flexing when itcomes to office space?
Where do you see that happeningwhen entrepreneurs say thanks,
(19:20):
frank, but you know it's not forme what goes wrong for those
people?
Frank Cottle (19:24):
I'm going to say it's the same thing that goes
wrong for anybody that doesn'tkeep their mind open to new
opportunities or or new, newways of doing things.
So you might use the term,they're a business Luddite,
where they're refusing torecognize the need for something
(19:46):
and the use of something that'sactually beneficial to them.
I hope I don't say that in aninsulting way, because it
doesn't just relate to ourproduct, it relates to
everything.
How many people in businesstoday can say AI will never work
, I'm not going to pay anyattention to AI?
How many manufacturers say, no,don't want any robots, I just
(20:07):
want wrench turners?
You can't say that things thatcreate flexibility or new
business models you're going toignore them.
You can be choosy.
You can wait to see them provenwhile you're doing research.
You can be selective, youshould be selective, but you
shouldn't ignore them.
(20:27):
Yeah.
Jim James (20:27):
I'd agree with you and I think you know you and I
grew up with paper and pen andthe fax machine.
In fact, my first job was toshipping cakes from Europe.
We had the Telex machine.
We had to go down every morningand see what the orders were
from Amsterdam and only oneperson had that information.
And then fast forward clientssaid they didn't need websites,
(20:49):
they only wanted brochures.
So this idea that you need tomove with the times, and I think
the logic of what you've got interms of not having the
financial commitment of a leasebut getting the flexibility of
this just-in-time space, makes alot of sense.
Frank, let's just ask you aboutyour history, because a lot of
(21:10):
us, as entrepreneurs, buildsolutions to the problems that
we face.
What's your story?
I mean, you're working fromhome and you have 1,500, 1,600
offices to choose from.
What's going on?
Frank Cottle (21:22):
Well, number one I'm lazy.
I don't like commuting.
I think it's a waste of my time.
Even though you can hold avideo meeting on your phone in
your car, you're not payingattention.
So I don't like commuting.
Never have.
So I've always.
If I had an office, it's alwaysbeen within five or 10 minutes
of my home, hopefully walkingdistance or rowing distance if I
(21:46):
was on the bay, which I was inNewport Beach or I just moved
from.
So you know that's my primarything.
The other thing is I'm veryhappy working in solitude.
I'm one of those people thatactually enjoys quiet.
I don't need a lot of energyaround me, and I think, as you
(22:07):
build a company that is remotefirst which we've been doing for
45 years in many respects yourselection of your team is
critically important.
You need to select people thatare, if they're going to be
working remotely or they'regoing to be working on a hybrid
(22:29):
basis, that are really theirvalues are aligned with that on
a family basis and on anindividual basis.
We shouldn't force people towork in an office or out of an
office or anything.
We should find people that arehappy doing the model that
you've got, and that's whatthey're seeking also, and that
they're obviously productive atdoing so, and that's very, very
(22:50):
important.
Jim James (22:52):
So you've really taken your own personal
preferences and made thatpossible for anybody else that
feels that way about wanting towork as and when and wherever
they want to work.
With that flexibility, you'vecreated an infrastructure for
literally tens of thousands ofpeople to exercise that choice
(23:14):
right to be local or global orregional.
Frank right Over 45 years?
Frank Cottle (23:21):
Yeah, I think if you look at.
I read an article the other dayon the next billion dollar
company, the next unicorncompany, and what they did is
they went back in time and theysaid well, the first billion
dollar company had x number ofemployees, and then the second
one, the third one, the fourthone, the most recent billion
dollar launch company that was aunicorn, had 16 employees and
(23:45):
the next one may have as few asthree yeah, I was reading that
as well, that there's a questionwith a capacity to work
flexibly, to to use technology,et cetera.
That is growing and we arescaling our individual
capabilities and we shouldn'tlimit ourselves purely to place.
(24:09):
If I could only build abillion-dollar company by living
in Manhattan, trust me, I don'tcare to build a billion-dollar
company because I do not want tolive in Manhattan.
Jim James (24:20):
Well, and Frank, yeah , and I think the other thing
that's really, or the otherdimension of this, is really
powerful, is that for youngpeople who are priced out of
real estate, what you'reoffering and what we're talking
about is really liberating, thatactually they don't have to be
in large offices to build wealth.
They can actually be anywherein one of your offices and build
(24:41):
really a substantial business.
Frank Cottle (24:44):
Well, they can, and whether they're.
Honestly, in today's world,with technology as it is and
creative capability as it is,whether they're in one of our
facilities or not, they can dothat and good.
That is so wonderful, soexciting.
It doesn't matter where you are, as long as you're in your head
and as long as what's in yourhead you're actually executing.
(25:06):
That's what matters.
Jim James (25:10):
Well, frank I mean Frank Cottle I was going to come
on to that actually as sort ofa final question about a piece
of advice, because you've builtthis company, you've got the
alliance virtual offices, you'vealso got the all work dot space
, which is a another venturethat you're running.
What would be a piece of advicethat you'd give me as an
(25:31):
entrepreneur, because you'vebuilt a global business on your
own terms, which is reallysomething that many of us aspire
to?
Frank Cottle (25:41):
Boy, don't listen to old men.
How's that?
Jim James (25:43):
Well, luckily you're young Frank, so I'm okay to ask
you.
Frank Cottle (25:51):
You know it always depends on the individual.
What does that person need foradvice?
There is no uniform thing thatyou can say.
If I were to go back onanything, I would just say just
focus on learning something newevery day, every single day.
Seek out something new.
It doesn't matter the sourceyour own decision-making of
(26:14):
what's good, bad and ugly shouldgrow by exposure, and everybody
struggles through that.
I know I have and you have tobecome the best student of your
chosen industry.
If you're not just like atschool, somebody else will be.
(26:34):
That's great, frank, be thatbest student, Frank Cuddle.
Jim James (26:40):
thank you.
Just like at school, somebodyelse will be.
That's great, Frank.
Be that student, Frank Cuddle.
Thank you.
If there's a book, podcast,newspaper, source of information
that you go with your curiousmind, where is it?
Frank Cottle (26:50):
I'm going to be selfish in this regard and say
I'm going to go to my ownpodcast, the Future of Work
podcast.
Over at allworkspace, we haveamazing guests that know
infinitely more than I do abouttheir subject matter, and that's
one of my favorite places and aplace that I actually go back
to often when I'm trying to doresearch on things and pull
(27:12):
ideas out myself.
What did that guy as a head ofMiller Knowles say?
What did that guy over at Ciscosay?
I try and pull out theirknowledge and that's one of my
own favorite resources actually.
Jim James (27:26):
Frank, we'll put that in the show notes.
That's allworkspace.
And isn't that the joy ofpodcasting?
That we get to be guests andhosts with interesting people
from around the world and learn.
That's the great joy for me ofrunning this show and it's been
a joy for me to meet you, frank.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
If you want to find out moreabout you and have the chance to
(27:48):
have a conversation, maybe withyou, where can they find you?
Frank Cottle (27:51):
Well, it's easy.
You can just go toalliancevirtualofficescom and
I'm right there on themanagement team, easy to get to.
Or, you know, I'm just onLinkedIn like everybody else.
Just reach out, I'm happy toconnect.
Jim James (28:04):
That's great.
It's Frank Cottle C-O-T-T-L-E,by the way, in Fort Worth, Frank
, thank you for joining me today.
Frank Cottle (28:11):
My pleasure day my pleasure.
Jim James (28:13):
Well, we've been talking about virtual offices,
but Frank and I are both at homeand in a way, that's the story
that we have the freedom and theflexibility now to work from
where we want to, when we wantto and where it suits our
business to grow.
But we do need our businessesto have.
Often, the establishedcredibility of a location
(28:34):
somewhere, maybe in ametropolitan area, provides a
way for us to have privacy andsome sort of establishment for
our business, but also, ifyou're growing, the flexibility
to go to different places,different cities and different
countries and to meet yourclients and your customers and
potential employees from aposition which is a wonderful,
professional, well-managedoffice space.
(28:56):
I'm going to put a link to thevirtual offices in the show
notes and also on my magazine attheunnoticedentrepreneurcom.
I've also written an articleand give you some write-up of
some options that you can choosefrom and a link as well to the
Alliance virtual offices.
My name is Jim James.
If you've enjoyed this show,don't review it.
(29:17):
That's not what I'm interestedin.
I'm actually interested in yousharing this with a fellow
unnoticed entrepreneur, becausethat's really what matters, not
what you think of me, but thatsomeone else gets to know what
you just learned and, in themeantime, I just encourage you
to keep on communicating.
Like so many people that are running their
businesses, you need theflexibility of locations where
you want to do work, but youdon't want to maybe have the
cost and the expense of rentingan office full time.
My guest today has been apioneer in the flexible
workspace for over 40 years.
He manages over 1,500 locationsaround the world and he has an
(00:22):
amazing offer that I would lovefor you to hear about, because
he's going to solve a hugenumber of problems for you and
me and everybody that needs aplace to be.
Frank Cuddle is the founder andCEO of Alliance Virtual
Officers, joining us from hishome, actually in Fort Worth in
Texas.
Frank, welcome to the show.
Frank Cottle (00:41):
Thank you, Jim.
Great to be here.
Great to be here Welcome to theshow.
Jim James (00:45):
Thank you, jim.
Great to be here.
Great to be here.
Frank, you solve a problem andyou've been doing this for
nearly 40 years which is to givebusiness owners and enterprises
a place to work when they'regrowing, when they're expanding,
without some of the commitmentsof fixed tenancies and so on.
So you really give them freedomto grow at a variable cost.
(01:06):
Tell us about the origin of thebusiness and which kind of
entrepreneurs you serve andwhere.
Frank Cottle (01:13):
Gosh.
Well, we started actually as aproperty company back in 1979,
80.
And we were building buildingsthat were purpose-built at that
time to host and house what werethen called executive suites.
And the purpose of theexecutive suite was the original
pre-business center,pre-serviced office,
pre-coworking brand from anindustry point of view.
(01:36):
That provided flexibleworkspace.
And our purpose in buildingbuildings was really land
banking.
We wanted to put the smallestbuilding on the biggest piece of
dirt possible, but withentitlement to go up eight or
ten times.
So that was our theory andthese funny little things called
(01:56):
executive suites generated themost revenue per square foot of
any commercial real estate wecould figure out.
So it was just a gamble.
Honestly, it was just a gamble.
It was a lot of fun and webuilt buildings and did
management contracts with otherdevelopers for about 10 years
and then we started building ourown projects on a leasehold
(02:17):
basis, just like IWG, regus,many others do, that you're all
familiar with.
We decided by the time we'd donethat and gotten fairly large,
we decided that it was not agood business model, that the
balance sheet of keepingcontinuing to add the long-term
liability of the leasehold debtwas destroying the corporate
(02:40):
valuation of the company orholding it back, I should say.
So we said well, there's thesefunny companies called Expedia
this is in the mid late 90s, youknow Travelocity different
things.
We said we actually want to ownthe customer instead of the
facilities.
We don't want to own facilitiesanymore.
So we sold all of ourfacilities and we built a
technology and an inventoryplatform that today that was
(03:04):
pre-Airbnb days.
Today we service over 200,000corporate clients on a global
basis and it's proven to bequite good for everybody.
We are location or facilityagnostic in that we have certain
standards, very high qualityservice standards, that we
require, sort of a best hotelsof the world approach, rather
(03:27):
than an anybody and everybodyapproach, and that has kept us
to have very low turnover churnrates by comparison to others.
And it's really it's all aboutthe customer.
It's just about service andflexibility.
About the customer.
(03:49):
It's just about service andflexibility.
If you were to think on yourown for a second, you know, go
back a few years.
Let's just go back pre-pandemic.
Make it simple.
All companies needed two thingsNeeded a great product and
access to capital so they canscale it.
Boom, pandemic hit.
What do they need now?
Flexibility.
A company without flexibilitytoday is not going to last very
(04:13):
long, so you have to have thecapacity to manage a workplace
that's distributed moreeffectively.
That is global.
That's distributed moreeffectively, that is global.
You're always going to have anemployee or a partner or a
financial source or a customerthat's not in your own backyard
(04:34):
today, and you've got to be ableto do it quickly and you have
to be able to do it withshort-term commitment.
Hence Alliance Virtual Officesdoes that for a broad
cross-section of customersentrepreneurs, startups, branch
offices of regional companies,primarily media and tech in that
(04:58):
regard, the legal, accountingand financial services
professions, big part of ourbusiness, that whole sector is
going more and more flexibleCorporates, the Global Fortune
1000, and even government, eventhe US federal government in
that regard, uses products andservices from a company, from
our company, and it's all aboutflex.
(05:22):
It's really quite simple andit's all about flex.
Jim James (05:26):
It's really quite simple.
Yeah, well, it is, though, asyou say, the underlying
economics of it are that peoplehave, I guess, shorter and
shorter windows.
I mean, when we started workback in the early 90s, people
would plan annually, right, andthen they started to do
quarterly reporting, and thennow things turn on a dime, don't
they reporting?
And then now things turn on adime, don't they?
You say COVID, but also stockprices come and go so quickly
(05:51):
that locking yourself into alease is well, probably for me
as an entrepreneur in Singapore,was one of the largest
commitments.
It's a marriage to a propertythat you don't know whether your
business is going to grow tothe same amount or outsize that
property.
Frank Cottle (06:06):
No, and a lease is a debt instrument.
It's a debt, it's an obligationthat you have to pay and that
you're legally obligated to pay.
So if you sign a 10-year lease,the first 12 months is an
expense, but the next nine yearsgoes on to your balance sheet
(06:27):
as debt, and that restricts yourgrowth, that restricts your
ability to raise capital overall.
And no one knows I don't knowwhat's going to happen five
years from now, three years fromnow, let alone nine.
So I don't want to be like JPMorgan with hundreds and
(06:49):
hundreds of thousands of unusedsquare feet of leasehold space
in Manhattan, telling everybodythey have to go back to their
office to save the corporateculture.
You know, I don't think theyhave a culture to begin with if
they have to be in an office todeal with it, but that's a
personal opinion.
So we don't know the future,except that you're going to have
(07:13):
to be capable of change.
So why lock yourself in?
It's really quite simpleproblem that we solved, and the
fact that we're servicing a widevariety of customers in a huge
cross section of industries anddifferent sizes of customers
(07:38):
demonstrates that we're not soparticularly clever as a company
, but that there is an actualneed for the product that we
produce.
Jim James (07:48):
And on the website, which is
alliancevirtualofficiescom,you'll see Frank's global reach
and his office is in establishedcenters like New York, for
example, isn't it, frank?
But also, you've got Bristolclose to home, where I am, and
you've got Singapore Bristolclose to home, where I am, and
you've got Singapore.
So an entrepreneur or amid-sized company could sign up
(08:08):
in one location.
Could they then go and travelto those other offices?
Are you giving them thatfreedom and flexibility to
travel within the network?
Frank Cottle (08:17):
Not on a free basis.
It's not free.
Jim James (08:20):
I wasn't expecting it to be free, but you don't have
to try and look for an officeevery time you travel.
Frank Cottle (08:24):
presumably we have a reservation system.
Jim James (08:29):
You mentioned, frank, that you're serving
multinationals, some also somegovernments and so on, and also
the entrepreneur class.
How are they different?
Do they sit side by side?
Are there different offeringsfor those two groups?
Frank Cottle (08:45):
Yes, Excuse me?
Yes, there can be.
Some clients require veryspecific technology issues.
They require a customizednetwork of locations that has
very specific technology,primarily around security for
communications, etc.
Some entrepreneurial clientsare really just concerned with
efficiency and cost.
Entrepreneurial clients arereally just concerned with
(09:07):
efficiency and cost.
Legal accounting professionalsfinancial services professionals
are very concerned with caliberof front desk service.
They're dealing with theirclients and you know the
receptionist isn't there to makeour client happy.
They're there to make ourclient's client happy.
So there's a differentiation onthe user types.
But the overarching need isflexibility that combines
(09:28):
clerical, secretarial,administrative support, live
reception support, telephonysystems and services, live
receptionists in terms oftelephony and answering machines
or answering support, meetingand conference room, av support
really whatever you need tomanage and run a business on an
hourly, daily, weekly, monthlyor annual contract.
Jim James (09:52):
So really, you do get to be that granular, don't you?
If you're allowing people tohave an hourly, weekly, monthly,
quarterly, annual, then I guessyour ethos is around this
flexibility, isn't it?
That you're liberating the cashfor the entrepreneur, the
business, to use to grow thecompany, rather than lock it
into giving the landlord, whichis really what that was about
(10:15):
before.
Frank Cottle (10:15):
Well, let's use an entrepreneur as an example.
Give you a good, a simpleexample.
Jim, you're an entrepreneur,I'm an entrepreneur.
We're going to go pitch aventure capitalist together.
Jim James (10:26):
Okay.
Frank Cottle (10:26):
Let's do it.
Yeah, we each have our owncompany, we each need a million
dollars.
And I go in first, I'm brave.
So I go in first and I throw mypitch deck down on the VC's
desk and I say, hey, here's myidea.
The VC says, yeah, it's areally great idea.
What are you going to do withthe money?
I said, oh, I'm going to get anoffice, I'm going to hire a
receptionist and a secretary andI've got to get some imaging
(10:50):
equipment and some furniture.
And then I'm going to hire someengineers and build this
product.
And you walk in and he says,hey, james, love Jim, I love
your product, love this.
What are you going to do withthe money?
Say, oh, I'm going to go take aflexible workspace, hire some
engineers and build the product.
Who's going to get the money?
You are Not me.
In today's world, mitigation ofrisk at the investment level so
(11:16):
that you can start a company isone of the biggest factors that
isn't always considered Focusedon the product.
They're focused on how tolaunch their product.
They aren't thinking about howto run the company necessarily,
but how you run your companybasically defines how you can
(11:36):
manage your capital that youreceive and that will determine
the risk factor, and the riskfactor will determine the
investment.
Jim James (11:45):
Well, and also, frank , if you were raising money, as
I did back in 98 in Singapore,and you have a certain amount of
money goes into office refurband rental, you have to take
more cash which, in effect, isvery expensive because you're
diluting your equity just to getmoney to give to the landlord
to refurb.
Frank Cottle (12:03):
Right, you dilute your own equity when you do that
.
If you're an entrepreneur andyou need more cash that you have
to give to somebody else and soif you can preserve that, you
can basically create a debt-freecashflow management company at
a higher level of efficiency.
And what companies arerealizing today?
Large companies and theyrealized an awful lot of it was
(12:26):
happening just pre-pandemic.
During pandemic, a lot ofpeople said you know, we don't
really need all this space, wedon't need it all.
Some companies are locked infor 10 or 15 years or they own
their own buildings and it's noteasy to flex.
But a lot of them said well,our next generation of model is
going to be quite different andwe're seeing that evolution on
(12:49):
the corporate side today and oneof the solutions that the
flexible workspace industry notjust us, but other larger
companies as well we createcustom networks of facilities
for single customers.
My largest customer has 117facilities.
I think it is right now insideof a custom design network with
(13:11):
a specific product just for thatcompany.
Jim James (13:15):
Take us through that, frank.
Does that mean like brandedspace, because maybe they want
corporate?
Frank Cottle (13:19):
identity.
No, not branded space we don'tbrand space for others but fully
service space on a contractedbasis, and that's not the amount
of space they use but thefacility structure.
That's a multi-year contract,so secure for us, flexible for
them, and it's just an ongoingmodel that has changed and the
(13:41):
amount of debt they're able toshed or not take on in leasehold
debt allows them and theirinvestors to create more access
to capital and the company'sjust growing magically.
Jim James (13:56):
And suppose it a parallel might be with contract
manufacturer, isn't it that youdon't necessarily own the
manufacturing process, likeapple?
Frank Cottle (14:05):
it really comes down to the just-in-time
inventory and intermodal system.
You know that started in theearly 90s.
So this is just-in-time realestate, if you will, or
just-in-time real estate, if youwill, or just-in-time officing,
and we don't think of theactivity of officing as being a
real estate issue.
It's a service issue.
It really is a service issueBecause you don't rent in a
(14:34):
flexible workspace facility orin a virtual officing structure
like we promote.
You don't rent square footage,you contract for services almost
on a cubic footage basis.
It's everything between thecarpet and the ceiling,
including the people, theequipment, the furniture, etc.
Everything necessary to run abusiness.
(14:55):
So it's not a terribly newtheory.
We've been doing this since 79,80, but it's one that is
continuously evolving and it'squite exciting actually.
Jim James (15:06):
It is, and when you look at it in terms of
just-in-time real estate,just-in-time property, it really
makes it seem so logical, frank, and why anyone was renting and
refurbing.
I guess there's the idea ofowning and having your name on
the door, but you can also helpentrepreneurs, for example, to
register their company in thatlocation.
That's maybe one of thedifferences with, for example,
(15:28):
some of these co-sharingworkspaces that are really kind
of almost like they're almost aStarbucks, but with more privacy
, aren't they?
With Alliance, you actuallygive people the opportunity to
register their company, havemail sent there and so on, which
is, I think, yes, theregistered agent.
Frank Cottle (15:44):
We service on behalf of other entity formation
companies probably 150,000entities someplace in that range
right now and it grows everymonth.
So it just is an ongoingprocess that part of the
business grows based on.
If you look at the littletidbit of facts here, if you
(16:04):
look at entity formations,entity formations almost
parallel grow with the growth ofa national economy.
So if the UK economy or the USeconomy is growing at 2%, then
the number of entities formedyear over year will grow at
about 2% and the life cycle ofan entity is around six and a
(16:27):
half seven years and that soundslike wait.
They should be longer.
But when you think of all thestartups that don't really they
form an entity and they don'treally do anything and then two
years later they've disappeared,it's a very high churn rate at
the front end and a very longlife cycle at the back end.
It's about six seven years.
So if you look at that as astability say, I can grow a
(16:49):
company that services this groupbased on the growth of the
economies of the nations thatI'm serving within and I've got
about a seven-year life cycle onthe customers on that growth.
And in the US right now thereare around 37, 38 million
entities, so your churn rate onnew customer prospects is around
(17:12):
6, 7 million new prospectsevery year and it grows at about
3%.
Jim James (17:17):
Right and they're coming in and registering new
companies and getting from youthat flexible workspace.
And I was looking in terms ofpricing.
It was like in London about$100, 70 pounds a month for a
Northwest one, for a Cavendishaddress, which is great, right.
So central London at a very lowrent and then you can go in and
use those services.
Just so that you know me andothers can listen and say listed
(17:40):
companies, the professions,legal accounting the financial
services branch offices.
Frank Cottle (18:00):
You might be in London but need an office in
Edinburgh for branch officeservices.
And then entrepreneurs and theindividual ratio of those
changes market by market.
So in the United States we havemore larger and
government-related companies instate capitals where they need
(18:24):
something, a representation, orin our national capital, in
Washington DC, there's aconcentration of that type of
company.
If you look at large corporates, you would think they'd be
concentrated in places like NewYork or Chicago or Dallas or LA.
They really aren't, becausethat's where their corporate
headquarters is.
So when you look at where theirbranch offices, where their
(18:48):
regional branch offices orservice offices are, that's
where they concentrate the useof flexible officing etc.
So each group is a little bitdifferent.
Jim James (18:59):
And I think the point that I was getting when I
looked at your website is thatpeople can move in quickly with
a minimum fixed fee and no heftylease to exit.
Frank, what happens for theentrepreneur that doesn't go
down the path of flexing when itcomes to office space?
Where do you see that happeningwhen entrepreneurs say thanks,
(19:20):
frank, but you know it's not forme what goes wrong for those
people?
Frank Cottle (19:24):
I'm going to say it's the same thing that goes
wrong for anybody that doesn'tkeep their mind open to new
opportunities or or new, newways of doing things.
So you might use the term,they're a business Luddite,
where they're refusing torecognize the need for something
(19:46):
and the use of something that'sactually beneficial to them.
I hope I don't say that in aninsulting way, because it
doesn't just relate to ourproduct, it relates to
everything.
How many people in businesstoday can say AI will never work
, I'm not going to pay anyattention to AI?
How many manufacturers say, no,don't want any robots, I just
(20:07):
want wrench turners?
You can't say that things thatcreate flexibility or new
business models you're going toignore them.
You can be choosy.
You can wait to see them provenwhile you're doing research.
You can be selective, youshould be selective, but you
shouldn't ignore them.
(20:27):
Yeah.
Jim James (20:27):
I'd agree with you and I think you know you and I
grew up with paper and pen andthe fax machine.
In fact, my first job was toshipping cakes from Europe.
We had the Telex machine.
We had to go down every morningand see what the orders were
from Amsterdam and only oneperson had that information.
And then fast forward clientssaid they didn't need websites,
(20:49):
they only wanted brochures.
So this idea that you need tomove with the times, and I think
the logic of what you've got interms of not having the
financial commitment of a leasebut getting the flexibility of
this just-in-time space, makes alot of sense.
Frank, let's just ask you aboutyour history, because a lot of
(21:10):
us, as entrepreneurs, buildsolutions to the problems that
we face.
What's your story?
I mean, you're working fromhome and you have 1,500, 1,600
offices to choose from.
What's going on?
Frank Cottle (21:22):
Well, number one I'm lazy.
I don't like commuting.
I think it's a waste of my time.
Even though you can hold avideo meeting on your phone in
your car, you're not payingattention.
So I don't like commuting.
Never have.
So I've always.
If I had an office, it's alwaysbeen within five or 10 minutes
of my home, hopefully walkingdistance or rowing distance if I
(21:46):
was on the bay, which I was inNewport Beach or I just moved
from.
So you know that's my primarything.
The other thing is I'm veryhappy working in solitude.
I'm one of those people thatactually enjoys quiet.
I don't need a lot of energyaround me, and I think, as you
(22:07):
build a company that is remotefirst which we've been doing for
45 years in many respects yourselection of your team is
critically important.
You need to select people thatare, if they're going to be
working remotely or they'regoing to be working on a hybrid
(22:29):
basis, that are really theirvalues are aligned with that on
a family basis and on anindividual basis.
We shouldn't force people towork in an office or out of an
office or anything.
We should find people that arehappy doing the model that
you've got, and that's whatthey're seeking also, and that
they're obviously productive atdoing so, and that's very, very
(22:50):
important.
Jim James (22:52):
So you've really taken your own personal
preferences and made thatpossible for anybody else that
feels that way about wanting towork as and when and wherever
they want to work.
With that flexibility, you'vecreated an infrastructure for
literally tens of thousands ofpeople to exercise that choice
(23:14):
right to be local or global orregional.
Frank right Over 45 years?
Frank Cottle (23:21):
Yeah, I think if you look at.
I read an article the other dayon the next billion dollar
company, the next unicorncompany, and what they did is
they went back in time and theysaid well, the first billion
dollar company had x number ofemployees, and then the second
one, the third one, the fourthone, the most recent billion
dollar launch company that was aunicorn, had 16 employees and
(23:45):
the next one may have as few asthree yeah, I was reading that
as well, that there's a questionwith a capacity to work
flexibly, to to use technology,et cetera.
That is growing and we arescaling our individual
capabilities and we shouldn'tlimit ourselves purely to place.
(24:09):
If I could only build abillion-dollar company by living
in Manhattan, trust me, I don'tcare to build a billion-dollar
company because I do not want tolive in Manhattan.
Jim James (24:20):
Well, and Frank, yeah , and I think the other thing
that's really, or the otherdimension of this, is really
powerful, is that for youngpeople who are priced out of
real estate, what you'reoffering and what we're talking
about is really liberating, thatactually they don't have to be
in large offices to build wealth.
They can actually be anywherein one of your offices and build
(24:41):
really a substantial business.
Frank Cottle (24:44):
Well, they can, and whether they're.
Honestly, in today's world,with technology as it is and
creative capability as it is,whether they're in one of our
facilities or not, they can dothat and good.
That is so wonderful, soexciting.
It doesn't matter where you are, as long as you're in your head
and as long as what's in yourhead you're actually executing.
(25:06):
That's what matters.
Jim James (25:10):
Well, frank I mean Frank Cottle I was going to come
on to that actually as sort ofa final question about a piece
of advice, because you've builtthis company, you've got the
alliance virtual offices, you'vealso got the all work dot space
, which is a another venturethat you're running.
What would be a piece of advicethat you'd give me as an
(25:31):
entrepreneur, because you'vebuilt a global business on your
own terms, which is reallysomething that many of us aspire
to?
Frank Cottle (25:41):
Boy, don't listen to old men.
How's that?
Jim James (25:43):
Well, luckily you're young Frank, so I'm okay to ask
you.
Frank Cottle (25:51):
You know it always depends on the individual.
What does that person need foradvice?
There is no uniform thing thatyou can say.
If I were to go back onanything, I would just say just
focus on learning something newevery day, every single day.
Seek out something new.
It doesn't matter the sourceyour own decision-making of
(26:14):
what's good, bad and ugly shouldgrow by exposure, and everybody
struggles through that.
I know I have and you have tobecome the best student of your
chosen industry.
If you're not just like atschool, somebody else will be.
(26:34):
That's great, frank, be thatbest student, Frank Cuddle.
Jim James (26:40):
thank you.
Just like at school, somebodyelse will be.
That's great, Frank.
Be that student, Frank Cuddle.
Thank you.
If there's a book, podcast,newspaper, source of information
that you go with your curiousmind, where is it?
Frank Cottle (26:50):
I'm going to be selfish in this regard and say
I'm going to go to my ownpodcast, the Future of Work
podcast.
Over at allworkspace, we haveamazing guests that know
infinitely more than I do abouttheir subject matter, and that's
one of my favorite places and aplace that I actually go back
to often when I'm trying to doresearch on things and pull
(27:12):
ideas out myself.
What did that guy as a head ofMiller Knowles say?
What did that guy over at Ciscosay?
I try and pull out theirknowledge and that's one of my
own favorite resources actually.
Jim James (27:26):
Frank, we'll put that in the show notes.
That's allworkspace.
And isn't that the joy ofpodcasting?
That we get to be guests andhosts with interesting people
from around the world and learn.
That's the great joy for me ofrunning this show and it's been
a joy for me to meet you, frank.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
If you want to find out moreabout you and have the chance to
(27:48):
have a conversation, maybe withyou, where can they find you?
Frank Cottle (27:51):
Well, it's easy.
You can just go toalliancevirtualofficescom and
I'm right there on themanagement team, easy to get to.
Or, you know, I'm just onLinkedIn like everybody else.
Just reach out, I'm happy toconnect.
Jim James (28:04):
That's great.
It's Frank Cottle C-O-T-T-L-E,by the way, in Fort Worth, Frank
, thank you for joining me today.
Frank Cottle (28:11):
My pleasure day my pleasure.
Jim James (28:13):
Well, we've been talking about virtual offices,
but Frank and I are both at homeand in a way, that's the story
that we have the freedom and theflexibility now to work from
where we want to, when we wantto and where it suits our
business to grow.
But we do need our businessesto have.
Often, the establishedcredibility of a location
(28:34):
somewhere, maybe in ametropolitan area, provides a
way for us to have privacy andsome sort of establishment for
our business, but also, ifyou're growing, the flexibility
to go to different places,different cities and different
countries and to meet yourclients and your customers and
potential employees from aposition which is a wonderful,
professional, well-managedoffice space.
(28:56):
I'm going to put a link to thevirtual offices in the show
notes and also on my magazine attheunnoticedentrepreneurcom.
I've also written an articleand give you some write-up of
some options that you can choosefrom and a link as well to the
Alliance virtual offices.
My name is Jim James.
If you've enjoyed this show,don't review it.
(29:17):
That's not what I'm interestedin.
I'm actually interested in yousharing this with a fellow
unnoticed entrepreneur, becausethat's really what matters, not
what you think of me, but thatsomeone else gets to know what
you just learned and, in themeantime, I just encourage you
to keep on communicating.
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