July 17, 2025 • 34 mins
"We're not going to regret what we did. We're going to regret what we didn't do." That's Damion Lupo's life philosophy.
What if the solution to America's critical housing shortage wasn't just building more homes, but completely reinventing how we build them? Damion Lupo and his team at FrameTec have raised over $100 million to commercialize the first major innovation in house framing since the nail gun was invented in 1952.
At the heart of FrameTec's revolutionary approach is a patented "infinite board" system that transforms lumber processing. Unlike traditional construction that wastes materials and requires days of on-site work, their method identifies defects, finger-joints boards together, and produces precise, furniture-quality frames in just one day – up to four times faster than conventional methods. This isn't incremental improvement; it's exponential efficiency that could help close America's 10-million-unit housing gap.
Damion's journey to FrameTec spans decades of entrepreneurial experience, including building over 70 companies and weathering devastating failures (like losing $25 million during the 2008 financial crisis). His hard-earned wisdom about team-building, raising capital through relationships rather than institutions, and focusing on what he calls the "foundational 15%" that gives businesses an 85% chance of success provides invaluable insights for entrepreneurs in any field.
Whether you're fascinated by construction innovation, entrepreneurship, or simply curious about solutions to the housing crisis, this conversation offers both practical insights and philosophical depth about calculated risk-taking and leaving a positive legacy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim James (00:00):
And what about having an idea but you need $40
million to make it come toreality?
If you do, or maybe need alittle bit less, then you might
want to listen to thisconversation, because I want to
talk to Damien Lupo, who is theChief Investment Officer and
founder of a company calledFrame Tech.
Damien and his group of reallyindustrial engineers and
(00:25):
innovators are transforming theway houses are being built, so
we're going to hear about howthey are doing that.
Damian, welcome to the show.
Damion Lupo (00:33):
Hey, it's great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Jim James (00:35):
Well, thank you for coming on, because I know you
have a history.
You've built over 70 companiesand you've invested and bought
over 150 properties, butFrameTech is taking a really
innovative approach to howhouses are being built and
you're reducing the cost and thetime and the environmental
impact all of which are great.
But we're also going to hearabout how this company has
(00:58):
reinvented an industry, and Ithink that's really really
inspirational for anyonelistening, that every industry
can be re-engineered, and forgood.
Damien, tell us about FrameTech, the problem that you're
solving, and then we can talkabout how you're solving it.
Damion Lupo (01:13):
For sure.
Frametech is solving thehousing shortage, the crisis.
The crisis is that we don'thave enough housing.
We're probably 10 million unitsmissing and we go backwards
every year in the United Statesand other places in the world
where there's simply not enoughbeing built.
Old stuff is needing to be torndown and rebuilt, the
population is growing and theproblem is there's not enough
(01:35):
people able to do it.
And the technology hasn'tchanged in 71 years, since the
nail gun was invented.
That was literally the lastmajor innovation.
And so there was a madscientist, if you will, named
Marvin, and he started off doingthe framing of houses back in
the 70s and he had an idea totransform how houses were framed
(01:58):
, which is the core.
Once you figure that problemout, once you solve that, then
everything else can follow along.
But if you don't solve that,you're really stuck.
And he did that and had an idea, and then it was in his brain
for 20 years and it finally thatidea found us, found the money,
and we got together and we hadFrameTech babies, and that's
(02:19):
where things are today.
Jim James (02:20):
Let's just talk first of all, then, about how it came
together, because there's ateam of you about six or eight
senior managers, all withexperience but different skill
sets.
Often companies start and maybeone or two founders, juniors,
somewhere beavering away, butyou're an experienced group of
entrepreneurs and engineers andpeople in the construction
(02:44):
industry.
How did you come together?
Because that in itself is agood story, isn't it?
Damion Lupo (02:49):
It's really fascinating when you put the
time in, you become a personwith experience, then naturally
things sort of find their way toyou.
In the beginning people withoutexperience you're trying to
force things, you're trying toget things to happen, but what
(03:10):
you need is you need the actualexperience of doing things.
And then, ultimately, whathappened with FrameTech?
There's a group of guys thatall found each other through a
mutual contact and it was likehey, there's a bunch of people
with a bunch of brainpower andexperience.
And then there was my side thathad a relationship network of
people with money that wanted tofind a great idea and an
opportunity to grow their money.
And we came together and overan afternoon meeting we said we
(03:35):
like each other, we want to dothis.
And I said, all right, you'vegot your money.
And these people said,fantastic, You're probably full
of baloney, but we love it.
And they decided they wanted tomove forward and we launched
this thing.
So it was really about thetiming and it was about people
coming together that had haddecades of previous experience
and everybody was ready.
Jim James (03:55):
And I think what's really really important just to
note about that is that, as weget older, that our experience
actually does have a lot ofvalue.
Right, I know that we'reworried about AI, but actually
experiencing connectivity andstaying in touch with people is
a really important part ofstaying relevant and staying
active economically.
And you know David Epstein inhis book Range.
(04:16):
You know he talks aboutactually, as we get older, the
range of skill sets andconnections that we bring to
situations is part of our valueas much as our functional skill
set.
Damien, take us through theinnovation that happened.
Obviously, you mentioned thenail gun, which is 71 years ago,
which just shoots nails right,I guess, at high velocity and
(04:39):
high speed.
What's the essence of theinnovation that Marvin had?
Because I think that's also soimportant to understand that
really any industry is open andripe for innovation.
Damion Lupo (04:53):
It starts off with a question Can we do something
different?
Can we do it better?
You can do different things.
So there's a couple ofquestions Can we do this?
And then should we do it?
And to your point about AI AIis giving us a lot of how to do
things and can we?
And it's giving you, but itdoesn't really answer the moral,
ethical or otherwise thequestion of should we, why are
(05:15):
we doing this?
And so the innovation Marvin hadwas saying okay, there's a lot
of things that slow a processdown of framing and there's a
lot of waste.
Can we speed this up?
Can we make it better quality?
Can we do this without allsorts of dumpsters full of waste
?
Ultimately, that turned into thematerial handling process,
(05:37):
which is you take these bunks,these big stacks of boards and
in this process, this systemthat we built that's patented
you run your boards through it,check to take out any defects,
you cut out the defects and thenyou have all these different
boards that are on a bigassembly line and they get stuck
together with a finger joiner.
And when you do that, you endup with all these boards stuck
(05:59):
together and it turns into onecontinuous, infinite board.
And when you have that, thenyou take and you cut off the
piece that you want, the exactdistance, whether it's a six
foot or an eight foot or a 14foot, whatever it is, and once
you have that, then you can usethat to put into trusses and
walls.
So it was really about givingus perfect boards, the exact
(06:20):
size and having virtually nowaste, and that's never been
done before and that's the beendone before and that's the
secret sauce here.
Jim James (06:27):
And there's a great video at frametechcom and that's
frame, as in F-R-A-M-E and thenT-E-Ccom, and there's an
explainer video which I'm alsoreally a fan of from a marketing
point of view, because Damon'sexplained these finger joints
and it's also then really nicelyillustrated on the website for
(06:50):
potential investors, potentialpartners, potential employees
and so on.
So using an explainer video isgreat and the innovation that
you get one continuous board isa really great illustration for
me anyway of how he's taken whatwas a recurring industry
problem and thought of it.
But then it needed your funds,your $40 million.
(07:12):
What did the money get spent on, Damian?
Damion Lupo (07:17):
So when you build manufacturing, it's incredibly
capital intensive, so you need abuilding.
And when you do something new,you probably need a building
that doesn't exist because youhave a certain layout.
So, building the building $15million to build the building
and then all this equipment thatyou put in there and the robots
it's amazing how fast that addsup and you end up.
(07:38):
Typically, with most businesses, you have an idea of what
things are going to cost andthen you start building and you
say, oh, what about this?
Let's make it bigger, let's addthis.
And then your price tag goes up, which it did here, and we were
flexible enough to say, okay,yes, we want to have more
robotics, more automation.
From the beginning to the timewe actually started producing,
(07:59):
which was about two, two and ahalf years that process we ended
up taking our headcount, thelabor, down by about 30% because
of the innovation.
So when you do that, we'recreating all these jobs, but
it's not as labor intensive asit was going to be and
ultimately that ends up beingmore profitable and we're more
efficient because of therobotics and we're using
technology.
Jim James (08:18):
So you've, as you say , we normally plan on doubling
the expense and doubling thetime, don't we?
From our business plan, italways takes longer and more
money, but for $40 million gotyou the first plant.
I would like to hear the storyof how you raised the money,
because some people might goinstitutional one-on-one Just
tell us you've got anestablished industry with a new
(08:44):
production process.
What was the story in terms ofraising $40 million?
Damion Lupo (08:50):
So people ask a lot of times how do you raise money
?
How do you make that happen?
How does it?
Jim James (08:55):
happen so fast.
Damion Lupo (08:56):
And at this point FrameTech has over 100 million
that has come into it as itexpands and is working on
additional plants and locations.
And none of that wasinstitutional.
It was all individuals, mainStreet, not Wall Street.
And how did that happen?
It happened becauserelationships and trust was
built over years and when youhave trust.
Stephen Covey has a great bookcalled the Speed of Trust and
(09:19):
that has never been morerelevant or more true than here,
where people that haverelationships with us said we
like what you do, and it tellsyou that people really invest
with people.
They don't necessarily investin the thing, because if they
don't really know who's runningit and it's all about the team,
then it slows everything downand people are uneasy.
(09:40):
Here this was relativelystraightforward.
People said we like you, wetrust you and they wanted to be
a part of what we were doing.
But again, it was built onyears, so it wasn't a Google ad
and that can work.
But it's very different thanwhen you have relationships and
that there is no hack to that.
You have to serve people andyou have to give.
And then it's very easy to sayI've got this idea and people
(10:03):
say we're in because we'reinvesting in you.
Jim James (10:04):
And I think we're so obsessed with young founders and
raising money quickly andbecoming the next internet
unicorn that your story justreminds us that there's a lot of
money and wisdom in theconnections that people build up
over a lifetime and that weshould really be really sort of
(10:25):
making the most of those Damienas well, doesn't it?
In terms of the platform,you've raised the money.
What will be some of theobstacles that you face?
Because presumably there aresort of entrenched interests in
construction as well as thereare in any industry, and you're
bringing in an innovation thatmust be good for some and bad
(10:48):
for others.
So what's been some of thechallenge there?
Damion Lupo (10:52):
so there there's.
You run into into when you havesomething new, you're going to
run into skepticism.
You're going to run into peoplethat don't want you to change
the system because they have avested interest when you're
doing something faster, lessexpensive, more efficiently
people that are used to justmilking the cow with their old
system.
It's very irritating to themwhen you potentially take away
(11:15):
and even though there's so muchopportunity like when you're
talking about 10 million missinghouses FrameTech alone is not
going to solve this.
We're not taking away business.
We're adding capacity.
We're adding supply, but thereare people that think it's a
zero-sum game.
If we build something, it takesaway from them and that's
simply not true.
Developer who wants, they needmore framing.
(11:37):
They wonder if what we'resaying is true, because there's
been a lot of companies that saythey can do something but they
haven't been able to deliver.
We've moved past that becauseover the last eight months we've
been delivering and the wholeworld can see our stuff posted
online on LinkedIn and they cansee our buildings and you can
see an old house, like a housethat's built in a traditional
way, and then there's a frametech framed house next to each
(11:59):
other.
We have examples of that andit's night and day, because our
stuff is precise, it looks likefurniture and our stuff is
potentially up to four timesfaster.
So we'll produce, we'll frame ahouse from a slab to framing
done in one day, and thatnormally is four to seven days.
So people are watching it andyou have to deliver.
Ideas are simple, ideas arefree and it's all about
(12:23):
execution.
And what's happened is we'veexecuted and now the market
believes.
Jim James (12:29):
And when you say you could do it so much quicker, is
that because in the factory youare sort of preparing all the
lumber to be the right size andit's kind of pre-cut and I don't
want to be rude here but almostlike an Ikea.
When you get it it's beingassembled on site as opposed to
being sort of fabricated on site.
(12:50):
So is that essentially thedifference?
Damion Lupo (12:56):
Anytime you can do something in a
manufacturing-contained systemyou're going to have.
It's going to be faster, it'sgoing to be better quality, it's
it's like the idea of ofbuilding a car in your front
yard, as opposed to having amanufacturing plant that pushes
that thing through withprecision and robotics.
And it's the same thing, whichone's going to take longer.
You can build a Toyota 4Runnerin a in a matter of hours in the
(13:16):
plants in Japan, and if you tryto do that on your own, I don't
know how long that would take ayear, two years.
So it's the same efficiencies.
You build all that stuff andthen you bring it out and you
basically put it together onsite and it's unbelievably more
efficient.
It's not incremental, it'sexponentially more efficient,
more beautiful, more precise.
Everything about it is hyperbetter and, ultimately, when you
(13:39):
produce that type of productand it's faster, you start to
make things less expensive,because when you're shaving off
time, it's saving money.
When you produce more, which wecan faster, more supply
economics, it's going to reducethe cost.
It's solving the problem, it'sproducing more and it's
compressing pricing.
Jim James (13:58):
In terms of the distribution strategy, damian,
if you are maybe offeringdifferent people different
values, are you able to gothrough the usual supply chain
merchants, contractors and so onor are you disrupting the whole
value chain in manufacturingand construction?
Damion Lupo (14:23):
In this model.
I mean, we're going direct toour customers, so it's more like
a Tesla model.
There's not brokers andmiddlemen, and so what that does
is it saves people a lot ofmoney.
It's sort of like the financialsystem If you can go
peer-to-peer, it's way betterthan if you have 10 different
middlemen, agencies,institutions.
You want to do that Kind oflike how Bitcoin takes out all
(14:44):
the Western unions.
It's direct and there's reallynothing in the middle and that's
just.
That's better for everybodyexcept the middlemen, which is
irritating because they're likehow are we going to get paid?
And sometimes they have to goaway.
And so ours is very, it's verystreamlined, it's very direct.
And people like that too,because they know they're
talking to one party that'sgoing to deliver everything and
(15:04):
they're not trying to figure outthe 15 different people they
have to organize.
They have one phone call andeverything is done.
Jim James (15:09):
And in terms of the material you're using, wood.
I will just ask that questionabout sort of sustainability.
You've talked about reductionof waste, um removing removing
off cuts, for example.
What about the sustainabilityaspect of a frame tech, damien?
Damion Lupo (15:29):
this is one of the great things when you think
about and most people don'trealize that I mean, obviously,
framing is big with wood.
92 of housing is built withwood and in the united housing
is built with wood in the UnitedStates and it changes around
the world.
When you think about wood,what's more sustainable than
wood?
The only question is are thesebig trees or little trees?
They're smaller trees, they'rethe ones that are replanted and
(15:52):
grow over and over, not the 100,200-year-old redwoods.
Obviously, that's notsustainable.
But this is incrediblysustainable and you just keep
regenerating your forests andit's something that, especially
with smaller stuff and we haveinnovation that we're working on
that would make that even moresustainable.
It's great because it workswith a resource that doesn't
(16:14):
have an end.
It's not like there's a certainamount of oil in the ground and
we keep finding new technologyto be able to pull more out, but
there's an unlimited amount ofsunlight that's going to grow an
unlimited amount of trees, andso we're working with something
that is extremely, if notunlimited, sustainable.
Jim James (16:31):
And in terms of the sort of opportunity to provide
low-cost housing, but alsopresumably emergency housing,
housing where there's been adisaster of some kind, if you're
able to rebuild that's thatspeed and at scale, do you have
a strategy as well with frametech, to be providing, if you
(16:53):
like, sort of emergency housingand those sorts of things,
damien?
Damion Lupo (16:58):
are just we're not really set up for emergency
housing.
The cool thing is there arecompanies like boxable and
others that are built to buildan entire house or you know
these, these structures insideof a plant and that whole thing
can literally be put somewhere,can be on a semi-truck, and so
that's fantastic.
We're more set up to be within100 to 200 miles, where we build
(17:19):
it at our plant and then webring it out on site, and so
there's different models.
One of the things that'simportant in our business, and
really any business, is to knowwho you are, what you do and who
you serve, and not beingeverything to everybody.
I've watched people say, ohyeah, we can do that.
We can do a lot of things thatwe don't do.
(17:39):
That's on purpose, because wewant to be efficient, we want to
be able to give the biggestimpact.
If we say we're going to buildcustom 25,000 square foot homes,
we can do that.
Are we going to focus on that?
No, are we going to do it?
Probably not, but we can.
It's just being really clear onour avatar and our niche.
I mean, the riches are in theniches, and that's never been
(18:02):
truer.
You've got to know who you are,and then you can expand.
Amazon didn't start ineverything.
They started with books andthat was the niche, and then it
expanded from there.
So it's the same model here,expanded from there.
So it's the same model here.
Yeah, so the first plant wasreally the test.
Can this idea be executed?
And when the answer was yes, wecan, then the question is all
right, we can solve this massiveproblem.
(18:22):
We need more capacity becauseat this point, we have way more
demand than we have the abilityto produce, which is a good
problem.
It's still a problem and thequestion was why are we doing
this?
We're doing this to solve acrisis, and it's not going to be
solved with one plant.
So we're continuing to expandin both Arizona, with additional
plants into Texas, and we haveon frametechcom you can see the
(18:43):
nationwide in the United States,the rollout plans for these
plants and in the key marketsthat we're targeting.
All over the country there'sthis is literally a problem
everywhere.
Jim James (18:54):
And are you hoping to still have frame tech as the
business with these plants, orwill you license the technology
and have other other companiesstart to use your tech, cause
you could scale more quickly ina way, couldn't you that way?
Damion Lupo (19:10):
A hundred percent and there's there's an
opportunity for for outsideparties to potentially license
our stuff, our technology thatwe've patented, and build more
of these.
And so, because the vision isto impact society, to build more
housing, there's not a reallyrigid model on how that's going
to be.
It's going to be where weprotect the culture and we
(19:32):
protect the brand and we buildas much as we can to solve as
many people's housing issues anddrive prices down as possible.
So it's fairly flexible as longas we don't violate our
principles and our moral codeand compass.
Jim James (19:46):
And Damian, you've got a long history as an
entrepreneur, so let's shiftgears a little bit, because
you've plainly got a greatvision and a trajectory really
for frame tech.
Tell us a little bit about, asan entrepreneur, some of the
lessons that you've learned whenit comes to framing and I say
(20:06):
framing, I'm framing a business,I've used that phrase, but
we're going to talk about yourbook, unicornomics, which we're
going to give a link to at theend.
But tell us some of the lessonsthat you've learned in growing
FrameTech and also some of yourother 70 companies.
Damion Lupo (20:23):
One of the things that I've learned is it doesn't
matter if you're in the rightbusiness.
It matters that you getinvolved in something, and one
of the things that people do, Isee all the time is they're
trying to figure out the perfectbusiness, and if I looked back
and had that attitude, Iprobably would never have
started with anything, becauseI've had all sorts of crazy
things that I've been involvedwith.
I even had an iPad business onetime an international iPad
business shipping iPads toSweden, and it was just a
(20:46):
learning opportunity for me.
One of the lessons was don't bein this business, and that can
be a great lesson.
What you shouldn't do is moreimportant than what you should
do.
So it's going and learningdifferent things from each of
these businesses, and that's oneof the things.
Really, it's not about pickingthat perfect thing.
It's about doing something andkeep growing, because FrameTech
(21:07):
showed up three years ago threeand a half years ago in my world
, but it was 30 years of allthese previous businesses and
experiences that leveraged ontop of each other and got us to
the point where we were able todo this.
You couldn't execute somethinglike this because we wouldn't
have been the people that we are, with those experiences and the
ability to make decisions.
(21:27):
You're talking about somethingthat requires tens and then
hundreds of millions of dollarsand the complexity of building
manufacturing.
You need to go through all thesimple stuff and then gradually
make it more complex.
It was all those lessons fromall those different companies,
many of which didn't work.
They failed, there weremeltdowns and tens of millions
of dollars that were lost.
(21:48):
All that was part of thejourney.
Getting attached to the idea offailing is one of the biggest
problems, because nobody likesthe idea of being told that
they're a failure.
If you actually embrace thatand say, oh, this is cool, I'm
going to learn something, thenit shifts how you move through
life.
You're not afraid of it.
You're actually looking forwardto it because you know you're
going to keep growing in thatspace.
It's all mental.
(22:10):
It's the mindset of going intobusiness, more than the actual
tools and techniques.
Jim James (22:15):
David, how do you cope with, if you like, the
sense that you tried yourhardest, you thought you were
doing your best but it didn'twork, and some of the
self-questioning, if you like,the agonization of well, what
did I do wrong and can I really?
Damion Lupo (22:39):
can I get it right next time?
I'd love to hear how you builda robust mental attitude to that
.
Part of it is getting thatstuff, those questions, out of
your head.
So one of the things thathappened after 2008, after I
lost $25 million and startedover, I did a process of my
lessons.
It was literally spending timewriting down all the lessons and
then putting them in front ofme, and then I wrote books on it
.
One of my books is calledReinvented Life.
It was asking the question whatjust happened?
(23:01):
What do I need to learn?
When you get it out of your headone, you're not ruminating on
it and it's in front of you andthen you can start asking okay,
what, what can I, what should Ido differently?
And and so this, this processof getting this stuff out, and
one of the ways to do that isyou write things down and you
ask and you and you get a greatcoach or therapist that's asking
you questions, that pulls thisstuff out.
(23:22):
But a lot of times people don'tget it out of them, so they
just they stay stuck in theirstuff, and that's that's where
you're going to get into trouble, because then you're second
guessing yourself.
If you can pull it out.
Then it's out and it's likegetting a virus out of you.
It's like, okay, you're goingto kill it, and sometimes you
just need to embrace it, put itin a cage, and then you see it
(23:43):
and you're like, okay, good,that monkey is now in a cage and
it's not on my back.
Jim James (23:48):
I think the idea that you'd write it down and write a
story, however long or short,is a great one, and actually it
reminds me of I wrote all thechapter outlines of kind of
leaving China and what we had todo to leave there and rebuild
in the UK, and I have all theoutline but I haven't filled in
(24:08):
the paragraphs and the sentences.
So you're reminding me reallyof what probably should be a
really good project for me to doas well.
Damien, you've lost 25 million.
Writing it down is one thing,but how do you recover and help
your family to feel safe underthose circumstances?
Because for many entrepreneursit's the financial insecurity
(24:31):
that's the hardest for the restof the family to bear.
Damion Lupo (24:33):
It's hard.
I mean.
I think one of the challengesfor a lot of people is they're
dealing with a lot of fear fromspouses.
In my case, there wasn't aspouse Without kids.
It's a different process whenyou have spouses.
When you have kids, I got toprotect them.
I look back at my ownrelationship with my father and
(24:57):
he played it safe.
He was playing not to lose.
At the end of his life, beforehe passed away, he literally
said there were so many thingsthat I wanted to do and he
didn't do them.
That's not a good model.
That was more of a warning.
I think that, as entrepreneursor just people in general that
have ideas, you're really doinga disservice to your family by
playing it safe all the time.
(25:19):
I think it's important to be agood model, to be able to take
risks, realizing that you don'thave to take risks that are
going to make you homeless.
You don't have to take a riskthat's going to kill you.
It's really about going for itin life, because we're not going
to regret what we did.
We're going to regret what wedidn't do.
That's what we're going to lookback on with just frustration,
(25:40):
and I would suggest that that'simportant to think about instead
of saying, okay, I'm going tohesitate, hesitate, I'm not
going to do anything.
You're not really doing theworld a service and you're
probably not going to ultimatelymake your family really proud
of you when you didn't do thethings that they're going to be
proud of you for being bold andI've seen that over and over
again.
I would suggest that's probablytrue universally.
Jim James (26:02):
No, I think that's a lovely sentiment.
My daughter does say, dad, youkeep thinking of new ideas, and
I'm like, yeah, I know, you knowthat's the excitement of being
an entrepreneur, but also wehave to take calculated risks,
and you mentioned earlier onabout the need to find people to
work with.
Do you want to share with us,damien, your approach now, as
(26:24):
we're getting a bit older, toreducing risk and reducing
stress and increasing thechances of success?
And you've got a book as well,unicornomics, which we're going
to share a link to.
Can you just take us throughnow?
You've come through all of thoselosing 25 million, rebuilding,
so credit to you for that.
Frametech is going to be alegacy business, isn't it?
I mean, you're going to leave alegacy for people.
(26:46):
You're improving the worldthrough what you're doing.
What would be some guidanceyou'd give to entrepreneurs now,
who maybe are younger than youand I, who are coming through
this, who have said, damien,you're right, I got to go for it
, I got to live my life, but canyou help me out with a little
bit of guidance?
Damion Lupo (27:04):
A couple of things that I've learned, and when I
wrote Unicornomics, it wasreally understanding that
there's a foundational piece tobusiness.
I call it the foundational 15%that gives you an 85% likelihood
of success, and what that meansis, in business, if you get
these principles, if you buildbusinesses, if you have the
right team, if you have people,if you get these principles, if
(27:25):
you build businesses, if youhave the right team, if you have
people, if you have a mission,there's this piece of business.
Most people don't know whatthose things are, so they have a
99% chance of failure over thenext 10 years.
Whereas if you get this first,this foundational piece, and if
you get it done upfront forexample, having no capital
really a problem, because you'regoing to make decisions in
panic and anxiety that are notreally going to be very sound
(27:45):
and people go, oh, it's likecramming for a test.
I just I can figure it out.
Yeah, but if you, if all yourmental energy is in a crisis all
the time because you're runningout of money, it's not sound,
it's not, it's not one of theprinciples.
So if you can say, okay, if Iget these things right, I have
(28:07):
an 85% likelihood of success,then you start asking yourself
okay, cool, if it doesn't work?
Statistically, that means Ineed two businesses that I
launch and one of those is goingto work.
You're really setting yourselfin a position of advantage as
opposed to I'm going to go tryan idea.
Most of the time it's not goingto work because none of those
things are put in place.
I'll tell you.
It has everything to do withtwo groups of people One,
mentors that are the wiser,balder, grayer, that are around
you, that have been throughcycles, that have that wisdom.
(28:29):
Then it's the execution team.
One of my mistakes early wasthinking I should do everything
because I'm pretty smart.
That was one of the dumbestthings that I've done is just
saying, oh yeah, I can be my ownaccountant, my own attorney, my
own ops person, my own marketer, instead of saying, okay, who
are the best?
I was also cheap when I hiredpeople in the beginning.
I would get whoever was thecheapest and guess what?
(28:49):
I got dog crap for a lot of theresults.
So going and finding the best,finding the best people, the
best talent those type of peopledo not cost you money.
They make you money.
Cheap people cost you a lot ofmoney and that's a universal
rule.
Jim James (29:03):
The cheap, people are actually very expensive to hire
is a really great fact, becauseI have made the same mistake
and, in fact, the things thatyou've just said.
That could have been me sayingthe same.
And I'm also now at the otherside, where I'm hiring a coach
and saying, at my age of 58 and25 years running businesses on
(29:26):
three continents, I'm hiring acoach for the first time in my
life because I've realized thatI keep making the same mistakes,
because some of the way that webehave doesn't change,
regardless of the business we'rein.
So finding a mentor and a coachis essential.
But also, as you've done withFrameTech, you've plainly got an
amazingly skilled andexperienced management team,
(29:50):
which also must make it a lotmore pleasant, to be honest, to
do.
Damion Lupo (29:55):
When you have a world-class truly a world-class
team, what happens is you'reable to let go of trying to be
in the middle of things that youhave no business being in the
middle of, because you trustthose people to be able to
execute, not just because theyhave skills, but because they
have the resilience and thecommitment.
And if you don't have thoseworld-class people, then what
tends to happen is the grinders,the smart people tend to try to
(30:16):
get in the middle of all sortsof things and they don't really
do it very well.
I found that with FrameTechit's the ultimate, where these
people are execution geniuses intheir space and then we come
together and there's thisincredible trust amongst the
people, the leadership, becauseeverybody trusts the other
people with their skills andtheir commitment.
Jim James (30:35):
That's really nice and, considering you're solving
such an important problem, it'sfantastic that you've really
safeguarded the chance ofsuccess.
Damian lupo, I am going to askyou, um, for a, a book or a
podcast, because you've plainlylived a lot, accomplished a lot
and learned a lot.
(30:55):
Is there a book or a podcastthat you would recommend to
people?
Damion Lupo (31:02):
I culminating.
I mean I I've read, like youand many others, a million books
.
I'm really proud ofUnicornomics because it creates
in less than an hour anopportunity for somebody to say,
okay, what are the things thatare going to give me that chance
at success?
And I talk a lot about that onmy podcast, fu, Financial
(31:22):
Underdogs podcast so people canget a lot more of my brain and
just the way that I think onthat podcast.
So it's really those two thingsUnicornomics and Financial
Underdogs I think you can get.
If you like my thinking, if youlike the way that I look at
life and the experiences youwant to leverage off of those
are two places where you canreally gain a lot.
Jim James (31:42):
Great, and that's unicornomicsnet, by the way, and
of course I'll put the detailsin the show notes and it says
the foundational first 15% toget your billion dollar business
.
And you've got the individualpacks of 10 and a pack of 50 as
(32:02):
well that people can buy.
Damien Lupo fascinating story.
It's always so hard in thesesituations because you've got a
brilliant business to talk aboutand you've got amazing wisdom
to share as well, Trying toblend both If people would like
to find out more about you.
Obviously you've gotUnicornomics and you've got your
podcast, but what about gettinghold of you?
Can they connect with yousomewhere?
Damion Lupo (32:22):
Yeah, best place to just connect with me on
LinkedIn and I'm happy tointeract with people and they
can see what I'm up to andopportunities to do FaceTime and
that kind of stuff, if that'ssomething of interest.
Jim James (32:34):
So yeah, definitely reach out to me there.
And that's Damien S Lupo.
I think isn't it on LinkedIn.
Damion Lupo (32:43):
That's a good question.
I think if you just put my name, Damian Lupo, in there, there's
only one that you're going tofind.
I don't think I have anyimpersonators yet.
Jim James (32:49):
No clones, no digital twins, but if there is going to
be one, it should be theoriginal.
They talk to Damian.
Thank you for joining me on theUnnoticed Entrepreneur, sharing
so much amazing, positive ideasand also inspirational wisdom.
Damion Lupo (33:03):
Thank you, jim, appreciate it.
Jim James (33:10):
So we've been listening to Damien Lupo, who is
the chief investment officerand co-founder at a company
called FrameTech, and he's inSedona, arizona, where it's
beautiful but a little bit hotat the minute.
But it's really some age-oldwisdom there about surrounding
yourself with people that aresmarter and able to work with
you and guide you and also tomake sure you've got some of the
essential elements for successin place before you start your
(33:32):
business.
But the other final point isgive it a go.
You know that being anentrepreneur is a way of life
and it carries its risks, but itreally also carries a large
number of rewards.
So I really really appreciateDamon saying it's worth going
for it because life is worthliving.
So thank you for listening tome.
(33:52):
Your host, jim James, on theUnnoticed Entrepreneur If you've
enjoyed it, please share itwith a fellow unnoticed
entrepreneur.
The reviews are great, but it'sthe sharing that really shows
that you care and, until we meetagain, encourage you to keep on
communicating.
And what about having an idea but you need $40
million to make it come toreality?
If you do, or maybe need alittle bit less, then you might
want to listen to thisconversation, because I want to
talk to Damien Lupo, who is theChief Investment Officer and
founder of a company calledFrame Tech.
Damien and his group of reallyindustrial engineers and
(00:25):
innovators are transforming theway houses are being built, so
we're going to hear about howthey are doing that.
Damian, welcome to the show.
Damion Lupo (00:33):
Hey, it's great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Jim James (00:35):
Well, thank you for coming on, because I know you
have a history.
You've built over 70 companiesand you've invested and bought
over 150 properties, butFrameTech is taking a really
innovative approach to howhouses are being built and
you're reducing the cost and thetime and the environmental
impact all of which are great.
But we're also going to hearabout how this company has
(00:58):
reinvented an industry, and Ithink that's really really
inspirational for anyonelistening, that every industry
can be re-engineered, and forgood.
Damien, tell us about FrameTech, the problem that you're
solving, and then we can talkabout how you're solving it.
Damion Lupo (01:13):
For sure.
Frametech is solving thehousing shortage, the crisis.
The crisis is that we don'thave enough housing.
We're probably 10 million unitsmissing and we go backwards
every year in the United Statesand other places in the world
where there's simply not enoughbeing built.
Old stuff is needing to be torndown and rebuilt, the
population is growing and theproblem is there's not enough
(01:35):
people able to do it.
And the technology hasn'tchanged in 71 years, since the
nail gun was invented.
That was literally the lastmajor innovation.
And so there was a madscientist, if you will, named
Marvin, and he started off doingthe framing of houses back in
the 70s and he had an idea totransform how houses were framed
(01:58):
, which is the core.
Once you figure that problemout, once you solve that, then
everything else can follow along.
But if you don't solve that,you're really stuck.
And he did that and had an idea, and then it was in his brain
for 20 years and it finally thatidea found us, found the money,
and we got together and we hadFrameTech babies, and that's
(02:19):
where things are today.
Jim James (02:20):
Let's just talk first of all, then, about how it came
together, because there's ateam of you about six or eight
senior managers, all withexperience but different skill
sets.
Often companies start and maybeone or two founders, juniors,
somewhere beavering away, butyou're an experienced group of
entrepreneurs and engineers andpeople in the construction
(02:44):
industry.
How did you come together?
Because that in itself is agood story, isn't it?
Damion Lupo (02:49):
It's really fascinating when you put the
time in, you become a personwith experience, then naturally
things sort of find their way toyou.
In the beginning people withoutexperience you're trying to
force things, you're trying toget things to happen, but what
(03:10):
you need is you need the actualexperience of doing things.
And then, ultimately, whathappened with FrameTech?
There's a group of guys thatall found each other through a
mutual contact and it was likehey, there's a bunch of people
with a bunch of brainpower andexperience.
And then there was my side thathad a relationship network of
people with money that wanted tofind a great idea and an
opportunity to grow their money.
And we came together and overan afternoon meeting we said we
(03:35):
like each other, we want to dothis.
And I said, all right, you'vegot your money.
And these people said,fantastic, You're probably full
of baloney, but we love it.
And they decided they wanted tomove forward and we launched
this thing.
So it was really about thetiming and it was about people
coming together that had haddecades of previous experience
and everybody was ready.
Jim James (03:55):
And I think what's really really important just to
note about that is that, as weget older, that our experience
actually does have a lot ofvalue.
Right, I know that we'reworried about AI, but actually
experiencing connectivity andstaying in touch with people is
a really important part ofstaying relevant and staying
active economically.
And you know David Epstein inhis book Range.
(04:16):
You know he talks aboutactually, as we get older, the
range of skill sets andconnections that we bring to
situations is part of our valueas much as our functional skill
set.
Damien, take us through theinnovation that happened.
Obviously, you mentioned thenail gun, which is 71 years ago,
which just shoots nails right,I guess, at high velocity and
(04:39):
high speed.
What's the essence of theinnovation that Marvin had?
Because I think that's also soimportant to understand that
really any industry is open andripe for innovation.
Damion Lupo (04:53):
It starts off with a question Can we do something
different?
Can we do it better?
You can do different things.
So there's a couple ofquestions Can we do this?
And then should we do it?
And to your point about AI AIis giving us a lot of how to do
things and can we?
And it's giving you, but itdoesn't really answer the moral,
ethical or otherwise thequestion of should we, why are
(05:15):
we doing this?
And so the innovation Marvin hadwas saying okay, there's a lot
of things that slow a processdown of framing and there's a
lot of waste.
Can we speed this up?
Can we make it better quality?
Can we do this without allsorts of dumpsters full of waste
?
Ultimately, that turned into thematerial handling process,
(05:37):
which is you take these bunks,these big stacks of boards and
in this process, this systemthat we built that's patented
you run your boards through it,check to take out any defects,
you cut out the defects and thenyou have all these different
boards that are on a bigassembly line and they get stuck
together with a finger joiner.
And when you do that, you endup with all these boards stuck
(05:59):
together and it turns into onecontinuous, infinite board.
And when you have that, thenyou take and you cut off the
piece that you want, the exactdistance, whether it's a six
foot or an eight foot or a 14foot, whatever it is, and once
you have that, then you can usethat to put into trusses and
walls.
So it was really about givingus perfect boards, the exact
(06:20):
size and having virtually nowaste, and that's never been
done before and that's the beendone before and that's the
secret sauce here.
Jim James (06:27):
And there's a great video at frametechcom and that's
frame, as in F-R-A-M-E and thenT-E-Ccom, and there's an
explainer video which I'm alsoreally a fan of from a marketing
point of view, because Damon'sexplained these finger joints
and it's also then really nicelyillustrated on the website for
(06:50):
potential investors, potentialpartners, potential employees
and so on.
So using an explainer video isgreat and the innovation that
you get one continuous board isa really great illustration for
me anyway of how he's taken whatwas a recurring industry
problem and thought of it.
But then it needed your funds,your $40 million.
(07:12):
What did the money get spent on, Damian?
Damion Lupo (07:17):
So when you build manufacturing, it's incredibly
capital intensive, so you need abuilding.
And when you do something new,you probably need a building
that doesn't exist because youhave a certain layout.
So, building the building $15million to build the building
and then all this equipment thatyou put in there and the robots
it's amazing how fast that addsup and you end up.
(07:38):
Typically, with most businesses, you have an idea of what
things are going to cost andthen you start building and you
say, oh, what about this?
Let's make it bigger, let's addthis.
And then your price tag goes up, which it did here, and we were
flexible enough to say, okay,yes, we want to have more
robotics, more automation.
From the beginning to the timewe actually started producing,
(07:59):
which was about two, two and ahalf years that process we ended
up taking our headcount, thelabor, down by about 30% because
of the innovation.
So when you do that, we'recreating all these jobs, but
it's not as labor intensive asit was going to be and
ultimately that ends up beingmore profitable and we're more
efficient because of therobotics and we're using
technology.
Jim James (08:18):
So you've, as you say , we normally plan on doubling
the expense and doubling thetime, don't we?
From our business plan, italways takes longer and more
money, but for $40 million gotyou the first plant.
I would like to hear the storyof how you raised the money,
because some people might goinstitutional one-on-one Just
tell us you've got anestablished industry with a new
(08:44):
production process.
What was the story in terms ofraising $40 million?
Damion Lupo (08:50):
So people ask a lot of times how do you raise money
?
How do you make that happen?
How does it?
Jim James (08:55):
happen so fast.
Damion Lupo (08:56):
And at this point FrameTech has over 100 million
that has come into it as itexpands and is working on
additional plants and locations.
And none of that wasinstitutional.
It was all individuals, mainStreet, not Wall Street.
And how did that happen?
It happened becauserelationships and trust was
built over years and when youhave trust.
Stephen Covey has a great bookcalled the Speed of Trust and
(09:19):
that has never been morerelevant or more true than here,
where people that haverelationships with us said we
like what you do, and it tellsyou that people really invest
with people.
They don't necessarily investin the thing, because if they
don't really know who's runningit and it's all about the team,
then it slows everything downand people are uneasy.
(09:40):
Here this was relativelystraightforward.
People said we like you, wetrust you and they wanted to be
a part of what we were doing.
But again, it was built onyears, so it wasn't a Google ad
and that can work.
But it's very different thanwhen you have relationships and
that there is no hack to that.
You have to serve people andyou have to give.
And then it's very easy to sayI've got this idea and people
(10:03):
say we're in because we'reinvesting in you.
Jim James (10:04):
And I think we're so obsessed with young founders and
raising money quickly andbecoming the next internet
unicorn that your story justreminds us that there's a lot of
money and wisdom in theconnections that people build up
over a lifetime and that weshould really be really sort of
(10:25):
making the most of those Damienas well, doesn't it?
In terms of the platform,you've raised the money.
What will be some of theobstacles that you face?
Because presumably there aresort of entrenched interests in
construction as well as thereare in any industry, and you're
bringing in an innovation thatmust be good for some and bad
(10:48):
for others.
So what's been some of thechallenge there?
Damion Lupo (10:52):
so there there's.
You run into into when you havesomething new, you're going to
run into skepticism.
You're going to run into peoplethat don't want you to change
the system because they have avested interest when you're
doing something faster, lessexpensive, more efficiently
people that are used to justmilking the cow with their old
system.
It's very irritating to themwhen you potentially take away
(11:15):
and even though there's so muchopportunity like when you're
talking about 10 million missinghouses FrameTech alone is not
going to solve this.
We're not taking away business.
We're adding capacity.
We're adding supply, but thereare people that think it's a
zero-sum game.
If we build something, it takesaway from them and that's
simply not true.
Developer who wants, they needmore framing.
(11:37):
They wonder if what we'resaying is true, because there's
been a lot of companies that saythey can do something but they
haven't been able to deliver.
We've moved past that becauseover the last eight months we've
been delivering and the wholeworld can see our stuff posted
online on LinkedIn and they cansee our buildings and you can
see an old house, like a housethat's built in a traditional
way, and then there's a frametech framed house next to each
(11:59):
other.
We have examples of that andit's night and day, because our
stuff is precise, it looks likefurniture and our stuff is
potentially up to four timesfaster.
So we'll produce, we'll frame ahouse from a slab to framing
done in one day, and thatnormally is four to seven days.
So people are watching it andyou have to deliver.
Ideas are simple, ideas arefree and it's all about
(12:23):
execution.
And what's happened is we'veexecuted and now the market
believes.
Jim James (12:29):
And when you say you could do it so much quicker, is
that because in the factory youare sort of preparing all the
lumber to be the right size andit's kind of pre-cut and I don't
want to be rude here but almostlike an Ikea.
When you get it it's beingassembled on site as opposed to
being sort of fabricated on site.
(12:50):
So is that essentially thedifference?
Damion Lupo (12:56):
Anytime you can do something in a
manufacturing-contained systemyou're going to have.
It's going to be faster, it'sgoing to be better quality, it's
it's like the idea of ofbuilding a car in your front
yard, as opposed to having amanufacturing plant that pushes
that thing through withprecision and robotics.
And it's the same thing, whichone's going to take longer.
You can build a Toyota 4Runnerin a in a matter of hours in the
(13:16):
plants in Japan, and if you tryto do that on your own, I don't
know how long that would take ayear, two years.
So it's the same efficiencies.
You build all that stuff andthen you bring it out and you
basically put it together onsite and it's unbelievably more
efficient.
It's not incremental, it'sexponentially more efficient,
more beautiful, more precise.
Everything about it is hyperbetter and, ultimately, when you
(13:39):
produce that type of productand it's faster, you start to
make things less expensive,because when you're shaving off
time, it's saving money.
When you produce more, which wecan faster, more supply
economics, it's going to reducethe cost.
It's solving the problem, it'sproducing more and it's
compressing pricing.
Jim James (13:58):
In terms of the distribution strategy, damian,
if you are maybe offeringdifferent people different
values, are you able to gothrough the usual supply chain
merchants, contractors and so onor are you disrupting the whole
value chain in manufacturingand construction?
Damion Lupo (14:23):
In this model.
I mean, we're going direct toour customers, so it's more like
a Tesla model.
There's not brokers andmiddlemen, and so what that does
is it saves people a lot ofmoney.
It's sort of like the financialsystem If you can go
peer-to-peer, it's way betterthan if you have 10 different
middlemen, agencies,institutions.
You want to do that Kind oflike how Bitcoin takes out all
(14:44):
the Western unions.
It's direct and there's reallynothing in the middle and that's
just.
That's better for everybodyexcept the middlemen, which is
irritating because they're likehow are we going to get paid?
And sometimes they have to goaway.
And so ours is very, it's verystreamlined, it's very direct.
And people like that too,because they know they're
talking to one party that'sgoing to deliver everything and
(15:04):
they're not trying to figure outthe 15 different people they
have to organize.
They have one phone call andeverything is done.
Jim James (15:09):
And in terms of the material you're using, wood.
I will just ask that questionabout sort of sustainability.
You've talked about reductionof waste, um removing removing
off cuts, for example.
What about the sustainabilityaspect of a frame tech, damien?
Damion Lupo (15:29):
this is one of the great things when you think
about and most people don'trealize that I mean, obviously,
framing is big with wood.
92 of housing is built withwood and in the united housing
is built with wood in the UnitedStates and it changes around
the world.
When you think about wood,what's more sustainable than
wood?
The only question is are thesebig trees or little trees?
They're smaller trees, they'rethe ones that are replanted and
(15:52):
grow over and over, not the 100,200-year-old redwoods.
Obviously, that's notsustainable.
But this is incrediblysustainable and you just keep
regenerating your forests andit's something that, especially
with smaller stuff and we haveinnovation that we're working on
that would make that even moresustainable.
It's great because it workswith a resource that doesn't
(16:14):
have an end.
It's not like there's a certainamount of oil in the ground and
we keep finding new technologyto be able to pull more out, but
there's an unlimited amount ofsunlight that's going to grow an
unlimited amount of trees, andso we're working with something
that is extremely, if notunlimited, sustainable.
Jim James (16:31):
And in terms of the sort of opportunity to provide
low-cost housing, but alsopresumably emergency housing,
housing where there's been adisaster of some kind, if you're
able to rebuild that's thatspeed and at scale, do you have
a strategy as well with frametech, to be providing, if you
(16:53):
like, sort of emergency housingand those sorts of things,
damien?
Damion Lupo (16:58):
are just we're not really set up for emergency
housing.
The cool thing is there arecompanies like boxable and
others that are built to buildan entire house or you know
these, these structures insideof a plant and that whole thing
can literally be put somewhere,can be on a semi-truck, and so
that's fantastic.
We're more set up to be within100 to 200 miles, where we build
(17:19):
it at our plant and then webring it out on site, and so
there's different models.
One of the things that'simportant in our business, and
really any business, is to knowwho you are, what you do and who
you serve, and not beingeverything to everybody.
I've watched people say, ohyeah, we can do that.
We can do a lot of things thatwe don't do.
(17:39):
That's on purpose, because wewant to be efficient, we want to
be able to give the biggestimpact.
If we say we're going to buildcustom 25,000 square foot homes,
we can do that.
Are we going to focus on that?
No, are we going to do it?
Probably not, but we can.
It's just being really clear onour avatar and our niche.
I mean, the riches are in theniches, and that's never been
(18:02):
truer.
You've got to know who you are,and then you can expand.
Amazon didn't start ineverything.
They started with books andthat was the niche, and then it
expanded from there.
So it's the same model here,expanded from there.
So it's the same model here.
Yeah, so the first plant wasreally the test.
Can this idea be executed?
And when the answer was yes, wecan, then the question is all
right, we can solve this massiveproblem.
(18:22):
We need more capacity becauseat this point, we have way more
demand than we have the abilityto produce, which is a good
problem.
It's still a problem and thequestion was why are we doing
this?
We're doing this to solve acrisis, and it's not going to be
solved with one plant.
So we're continuing to expandin both Arizona, with additional
plants into Texas, and we haveon frametechcom you can see the
(18:43):
nationwide in the United States,the rollout plans for these
plants and in the key marketsthat we're targeting.
All over the country there'sthis is literally a problem
everywhere.
Jim James (18:54):
And are you hoping to still have frame tech as the
business with these plants, orwill you license the technology
and have other other companiesstart to use your tech, cause
you could scale more quickly ina way, couldn't you that way?
Damion Lupo (19:10):
A hundred percent and there's there's an
opportunity for for outsideparties to potentially license
our stuff, our technology thatwe've patented, and build more
of these.
And so, because the vision isto impact society, to build more
housing, there's not a reallyrigid model on how that's going
to be.
It's going to be where weprotect the culture and we
(19:32):
protect the brand and we buildas much as we can to solve as
many people's housing issues anddrive prices down as possible.
So it's fairly flexible as longas we don't violate our
principles and our moral codeand compass.
Jim James (19:46):
And Damian, you've got a long history as an
entrepreneur, so let's shiftgears a little bit, because
you've plainly got a greatvision and a trajectory really
for frame tech.
Tell us a little bit about, asan entrepreneur, some of the
lessons that you've learned whenit comes to framing and I say
(20:06):
framing, I'm framing a business,I've used that phrase, but
we're going to talk about yourbook, unicornomics, which we're
going to give a link to at theend.
But tell us some of the lessonsthat you've learned in growing
FrameTech and also some of yourother 70 companies.
Damion Lupo (20:23):
One of the things that I've learned is it doesn't
matter if you're in the rightbusiness.
It matters that you getinvolved in something, and one
of the things that people do, Isee all the time is they're
trying to figure out the perfectbusiness, and if I looked back
and had that attitude, Iprobably would never have
started with anything, becauseI've had all sorts of crazy
things that I've been involvedwith.
I even had an iPad business onetime an international iPad
business shipping iPads toSweden, and it was just a
(20:46):
learning opportunity for me.
One of the lessons was don't bein this business, and that can
be a great lesson.
What you shouldn't do is moreimportant than what you should
do.
So it's going and learningdifferent things from each of
these businesses, and that's oneof the things.
Really, it's not about pickingthat perfect thing.
It's about doing something andkeep growing, because FrameTech
(21:07):
showed up three years ago threeand a half years ago in my world
, but it was 30 years of allthese previous businesses and
experiences that leveraged ontop of each other and got us to
the point where we were able todo this.
You couldn't execute somethinglike this because we wouldn't
have been the people that we are, with those experiences and the
ability to make decisions.
(21:27):
You're talking about somethingthat requires tens and then
hundreds of millions of dollarsand the complexity of building
manufacturing.
You need to go through all thesimple stuff and then gradually
make it more complex.
It was all those lessons fromall those different companies,
many of which didn't work.
They failed, there weremeltdowns and tens of millions
of dollars that were lost.
(21:48):
All that was part of thejourney.
Getting attached to the idea offailing is one of the biggest
problems, because nobody likesthe idea of being told that
they're a failure.
If you actually embrace thatand say, oh, this is cool, I'm
going to learn something, thenit shifts how you move through
life.
You're not afraid of it.
You're actually looking forwardto it because you know you're
going to keep growing in thatspace.
It's all mental.
(22:10):
It's the mindset of going intobusiness, more than the actual
tools and techniques.
Jim James (22:15):
David, how do you cope with, if you like, the
sense that you tried yourhardest, you thought you were
doing your best but it didn'twork, and some of the
self-questioning, if you like,the agonization of well, what
did I do wrong and can I really?
Damion Lupo (22:39):
can I get it right next time?
I'd love to hear how you builda robust mental attitude to that
.
Part of it is getting thatstuff, those questions, out of
your head.
So one of the things thathappened after 2008, after I
lost $25 million and startedover, I did a process of my
lessons.
It was literally spending timewriting down all the lessons and
then putting them in front ofme, and then I wrote books on it
.
One of my books is calledReinvented Life.
It was asking the question whatjust happened?
(23:01):
What do I need to learn?
When you get it out of your headone, you're not ruminating on
it and it's in front of you andthen you can start asking okay,
what, what can I, what should Ido differently?
And and so this, this processof getting this stuff out, and
one of the ways to do that isyou write things down and you
ask and you and you get a greatcoach or therapist that's asking
you questions, that pulls thisstuff out.
(23:22):
But a lot of times people don'tget it out of them, so they
just they stay stuck in theirstuff, and that's that's where
you're going to get into trouble, because then you're second
guessing yourself.
If you can pull it out.
Then it's out and it's likegetting a virus out of you.
It's like, okay, you're goingto kill it, and sometimes you
just need to embrace it, put itin a cage, and then you see it
(23:43):
and you're like, okay, good,that monkey is now in a cage and
it's not on my back.
Jim James (23:48):
I think the idea that you'd write it down and write a
story, however long or short,is a great one, and actually it
reminds me of I wrote all thechapter outlines of kind of
leaving China and what we had todo to leave there and rebuild
in the UK, and I have all theoutline but I haven't filled in
(24:08):
the paragraphs and the sentences.
So you're reminding me reallyof what probably should be a
really good project for me to doas well.
Damien, you've lost 25 million.
Writing it down is one thing,but how do you recover and help
your family to feel safe underthose circumstances?
Because for many entrepreneursit's the financial insecurity
(24:31):
that's the hardest for the restof the family to bear.
Damion Lupo (24:33):
It's hard.
I mean.
I think one of the challengesfor a lot of people is they're
dealing with a lot of fear fromspouses.
In my case, there wasn't aspouse Without kids.
It's a different process whenyou have spouses.
When you have kids, I got toprotect them.
I look back at my ownrelationship with my father and
(24:57):
he played it safe.
He was playing not to lose.
At the end of his life, beforehe passed away, he literally
said there were so many thingsthat I wanted to do and he
didn't do them.
That's not a good model.
That was more of a warning.
I think that, as entrepreneursor just people in general that
have ideas, you're really doinga disservice to your family by
playing it safe all the time.
(25:19):
I think it's important to be agood model, to be able to take
risks, realizing that you don'thave to take risks that are
going to make you homeless.
You don't have to take a riskthat's going to kill you.
It's really about going for itin life, because we're not going
to regret what we did.
We're going to regret what wedidn't do.
That's what we're going to lookback on with just frustration,
(25:40):
and I would suggest that that'simportant to think about instead
of saying, okay, I'm going tohesitate, hesitate, I'm not
going to do anything.
You're not really doing theworld a service and you're
probably not going to ultimatelymake your family really proud
of you when you didn't do thethings that they're going to be
proud of you for being bold andI've seen that over and over
again.
I would suggest that's probablytrue universally.
Jim James (26:02):
No, I think that's a lovely sentiment.
My daughter does say, dad, youkeep thinking of new ideas, and
I'm like, yeah, I know, you knowthat's the excitement of being
an entrepreneur, but also wehave to take calculated risks,
and you mentioned earlier onabout the need to find people to
work with.
Do you want to share with us,damien, your approach now, as
(26:24):
we're getting a bit older, toreducing risk and reducing
stress and increasing thechances of success?
And you've got a book as well,unicornomics, which we're going
to share a link to.
Can you just take us throughnow?
You've come through all of thoselosing 25 million, rebuilding,
so credit to you for that.
Frametech is going to be alegacy business, isn't it?
I mean, you're going to leave alegacy for people.
(26:46):
You're improving the worldthrough what you're doing.
What would be some guidanceyou'd give to entrepreneurs now,
who maybe are younger than youand I, who are coming through
this, who have said, damien,you're right, I got to go for it
, I got to live my life, but canyou help me out with a little
bit of guidance?
Damion Lupo (27:04):
A couple of things that I've learned, and when I
wrote Unicornomics, it wasreally understanding that
there's a foundational piece tobusiness.
I call it the foundational 15%that gives you an 85% likelihood
of success, and what that meansis, in business, if you get
these principles, if you buildbusinesses, if you have the
right team, if you have people,if you get these principles, if
(27:25):
you build businesses, if youhave the right team, if you have
people, if you have a mission,there's this piece of business.
Most people don't know whatthose things are, so they have a
99% chance of failure over thenext 10 years.
Whereas if you get this first,this foundational piece, and if
you get it done upfront forexample, having no capital
really a problem, because you'regoing to make decisions in
panic and anxiety that are notreally going to be very sound
(27:45):
and people go, oh, it's likecramming for a test.
I just I can figure it out.
Yeah, but if you, if all yourmental energy is in a crisis all
the time because you're runningout of money, it's not sound,
it's not, it's not one of theprinciples.
So if you can say, okay, if Iget these things right, I have
(28:07):
an 85% likelihood of success,then you start asking yourself
okay, cool, if it doesn't work?
Statistically, that means Ineed two businesses that I
launch and one of those is goingto work.
You're really setting yourselfin a position of advantage as
opposed to I'm going to go tryan idea.
Most of the time it's not goingto work because none of those
things are put in place.
I'll tell you.
It has everything to do withtwo groups of people One,
mentors that are the wiser,balder, grayer, that are around
you, that have been throughcycles, that have that wisdom.
(28:29):
Then it's the execution team.
One of my mistakes early wasthinking I should do everything
because I'm pretty smart.
That was one of the dumbestthings that I've done is just
saying, oh yeah, I can be my ownaccountant, my own attorney, my
own ops person, my own marketer, instead of saying, okay, who
are the best?
I was also cheap when I hiredpeople in the beginning.
I would get whoever was thecheapest and guess what?
(28:49):
I got dog crap for a lot of theresults.
So going and finding the best,finding the best people, the
best talent those type of peopledo not cost you money.
They make you money.
Cheap people cost you a lot ofmoney and that's a universal
rule.
Jim James (29:03):
The cheap, people are actually very expensive to hire
is a really great fact, becauseI have made the same mistake
and, in fact, the things thatyou've just said.
That could have been me sayingthe same.
And I'm also now at the otherside, where I'm hiring a coach
and saying, at my age of 58 and25 years running businesses on
(29:26):
three continents, I'm hiring acoach for the first time in my
life because I've realized thatI keep making the same mistakes,
because some of the way that webehave doesn't change,
regardless of the business we'rein.
So finding a mentor and a coachis essential.
But also, as you've done withFrameTech, you've plainly got an
amazingly skilled andexperienced management team,
(29:50):
which also must make it a lotmore pleasant, to be honest, to
do.
Damion Lupo (29:55):
When you have a world-class truly a world-class
team, what happens is you'reable to let go of trying to be
in the middle of things that youhave no business being in the
middle of, because you trustthose people to be able to
execute, not just because theyhave skills, but because they
have the resilience and thecommitment.
And if you don't have thoseworld-class people, then what
tends to happen is the grinders,the smart people tend to try to
(30:16):
get in the middle of all sortsof things and they don't really
do it very well.
I found that with FrameTechit's the ultimate, where these
people are execution geniuses intheir space and then we come
together and there's thisincredible trust amongst the
people, the leadership, becauseeverybody trusts the other
people with their skills andtheir commitment.
Jim James (30:35):
That's really nice and, considering you're solving
such an important problem, it'sfantastic that you've really
safeguarded the chance ofsuccess.
Damian lupo, I am going to askyou, um, for a, a book or a
podcast, because you've plainlylived a lot, accomplished a lot
and learned a lot.
(30:55):
Is there a book or a podcastthat you would recommend to
people?
Damion Lupo (31:02):
I culminating.
I mean I I've read, like youand many others, a million books
.
I'm really proud ofUnicornomics because it creates
in less than an hour anopportunity for somebody to say,
okay, what are the things thatare going to give me that chance
at success?
And I talk a lot about that onmy podcast, fu, Financial
(31:22):
Underdogs podcast so people canget a lot more of my brain and
just the way that I think onthat podcast.
So it's really those two thingsUnicornomics and Financial
Underdogs I think you can get.
If you like my thinking, if youlike the way that I look at
life and the experiences youwant to leverage off of those
are two places where you canreally gain a lot.
Jim James (31:42):
Great, and that's unicornomicsnet, by the way, and
of course I'll put the detailsin the show notes and it says
the foundational first 15% toget your billion dollar business
.
And you've got the individualpacks of 10 and a pack of 50 as
(32:02):
well that people can buy.
Damien Lupo fascinating story.
It's always so hard in thesesituations because you've got a
brilliant business to talk aboutand you've got amazing wisdom
to share as well, Trying toblend both If people would like
to find out more about you.
Obviously you've gotUnicornomics and you've got your
podcast, but what about gettinghold of you?
Can they connect with yousomewhere?
Damion Lupo (32:22):
Yeah, best place to just connect with me on
LinkedIn and I'm happy tointeract with people and they
can see what I'm up to andopportunities to do FaceTime and
that kind of stuff, if that'ssomething of interest.
Jim James (32:34):
So yeah, definitely reach out to me there.
And that's Damien S Lupo.
I think isn't it on LinkedIn.
Damion Lupo (32:43):
That's a good question.
I think if you just put my name, Damian Lupo, in there, there's
only one that you're going tofind.
I don't think I have anyimpersonators yet.
Jim James (32:49):
No clones, no digital twins, but if there is going to
be one, it should be theoriginal.
They talk to Damian.
Thank you for joining me on theUnnoticed Entrepreneur, sharing
so much amazing, positive ideasand also inspirational wisdom.
Damion Lupo (33:03):
Thank you, jim, appreciate it.
Jim James (33:10):
So we've been listening to Damien Lupo, who is
the chief investment officerand co-founder at a company
called FrameTech, and he's inSedona, arizona, where it's
beautiful but a little bit hotat the minute.
But it's really some age-oldwisdom there about surrounding
yourself with people that aresmarter and able to work with
you and guide you and also tomake sure you've got some of the
essential elements for successin place before you start your
(33:32):
business.
But the other final point isgive it a go.
You know that being anentrepreneur is a way of life
and it carries its risks, but itreally also carries a large
number of rewards.
So I really really appreciateDamon saying it's worth going
for it because life is worthliving.
So thank you for listening tome.
(33:52):
Your host, jim James, on theUnnoticed Entrepreneur If you've
enjoyed it, please share itwith a fellow unnoticed
entrepreneur.
The reviews are great, but it'sthe sharing that really shows
that you care and, until we meetagain, encourage you to keep on
communicating.
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