Double Your Sales by Creating a Frictionless Experience | Guest Rigden Brinkerhoff, CEO, Evora Co

Evora is a fast growing up-and-coming DTC company that is doing a lot of stuff right... But it didn't start out that way...  Evora started out just like many of our businesses. Had a good product and a good audience but was struggling to put all the pieces together.

Listen as Rigden talks about the three things that have helped him double his sales month over month. 

1) Eliminated friction from his website and from his product
2) Focused on one single thing in front of him
3) Dialed in their messaging

We hope you enjoy this episode. 

Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump

Episode Transcript

Trevor (00:00):
In this week's episode of The Unstoppable Marketer

(00:02):
Podcast, we have an incredibleguest and a good friend of mine.
His name is Regan Brinkerhoff.
He is the CEO and co founder ofa new startup based out of
Scottsdale, Arizona called evilaura company. Alright, Evora
makes really, really cool,unique, individual watches.
That's very much tailored to theGen Z market. And I love this

(00:22):
episode, because we talked aboutthree things that are so
critical, we talked about theimportance of being focused. So
being focused on one thing andhow what that can do for your
business and how that can helpyou scale. We talked about the
idea and concept aroundfriction, and how to create a
frictionless business and howthat can help you scale. And we

(00:43):
just talked about how theystarted from the bottom. And
where they've gone over the lastkind of 18 months from down here
to now up here and where they'regoing and how they're going to
scale and get there. I hope youenjoy the episode. Let's jump
into it. Yo, what's going oneverybody? Welcome to the
unstoppable Marketer Podcastwith me today. He wasn't here
last time is my co host, Markgoldheart. Mark, what's going

(01:08):
on? Dude,

Mark (01:10):
what's up? I'm doing great.

Trevor (01:12):
Did you miss this last week? I did.

Mark (01:15):
Well, where was I? I don't know. I was having fun. I was in
Austin.

Trevor (01:20):
That's right. You were Yeah, I

Mark (01:21):
just couldn't get a good spot for solid internet
connection. I didn't want to geton. Yeah,

Trevor (01:27):
I don't get how any city doesn't have a solid internet
connection everywhere. Thatdoesn't make any sense at all.
Like if you're in Montana, orthe mountains like North Dakota,
I get it. Kind of.

Mark (01:40):
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.
How is it possible that in 2023,every hotel doesn't have

Trevor (01:47):
high amazing internet?
Yeah. I don't know. Like, how dothey? How can you run? Hot water
24/7 in a hotel, and always haveit, but not have good Wi Fi? I
don't know. That's a mystery.

Mark (02:02):
I don't Google Fiber needs to have some kind of war style.
Or Starlink. Yeah, that's reallywhat it should be. I should just
buy a Starlink we should buy aStarlink I think so. But yes, I
did admit I did miss it. Or Igot to meet him.

Trevor (02:17):
I got to meet Chris.
Yeah. Austin. That was great.
Yeah, we it was funny. We gotoff the podcast with Chris. I
got off the podcast with Chriscalled Mark was like Chris is a
great guy. You should call himand he connected with him. And
then we connect out. Yeah, nextday, the next day. That's
amazing. We met up and chattedfor an hour just had an internal
podcast. Yeah, dude. I'll

Mark (02:36):
tell you what, though.
Chris Hall. I'm surprised Texascan fit his personality in the
state. Yeah, he is. He is thepersonification of Texas.

Trevor (02:50):
He really was. Yeah. Did he have cowboy boots? Yes, he
did. Yeah. I thought about acowboy hat though.

Mark (02:56):
I told him I was a little disappointed. But yeah. But his
vibe made up for the lack of acowboy hat. And I'll tell him
that.

Trevor (03:02):
Yeah. I hope he's listening to this. We'll see.
Well, we have an awesome guesttoday. An awesome name. Like
your your name is incredible.
Let's start with that. Moniquedoes Rigden Brinkerhoff. So what
whatever you want to do withthat name? Rigdon. Brinckerhoff,
CEO and founder of a companycalled Evora. Rigden. What's up

(03:24):
dude?

Rigden (03:27):
Dude, how's it going, man? I'm sorry. I'm

Trevor (03:28):
sorry. We were bantering back and forth for a minute.

Rigden (03:30):
I was gonna jump in there, but I think I was allowed
so I just I just stayed out ofit. You know, it's funny, I

Trevor (03:35):
actually I actually kind of liked to do it because then I
like to see the type of guestsbecause like, you'll have some
guests who won't be introducedwho will jump right in and just
like be a part of it and, andthe listeners are probably Wait,
who's that third voice? What isthat? You know,

Rigden (03:47):
now I'm kind of mounted, you know,

Trevor (03:48):
I should have so but I don't have I don't have a water
sign. I don't have a preferenceone way or another, you know,
but do you have anything to sayabout Chris Hall and her soul

Rigden (03:58):
sounds like you're great. Texas are great. I lived
in I went on my mission toTexas. So my family's from
Texas. I know a lot about Texas.
Texas is good. I don't know if Ilive there. Just it's kind of
like I'm kind of getting sick ofArizona too for the same reasons
just like I feel. There's notenough that's making it except
for Austin. Austin's probablythe one except Austin was rad.
Austin's Great. Just kind ofbland, Arizona, just like

(04:21):
there's the coolest thing thatArizona has to offer is like
Scottsdale and there's othercool things. And we're talking
like industrial cool. Not likenature cool. And just like not
that inspiring. You're cool. Icould go there and just like
these aren't these aren'treally. Arizona's Do you think
that

Trevor (04:38):
it's like that because you're just from that's where
you live is in Arizona? BecauseI love Arizona. Like when I went
there? I was like because I'vealways thought Arizona why I
have no reason to ever go toArizona because we have Southern
Utah which is like St. Georgewhich is like in my I thought it
was pretty much Arizona. Youknow and then my wife and I are

(04:59):
no no I went on a work trip andstayed at the Phoenician.

Rigden (05:04):
Oh yeah, it

Trevor (05:05):
was supposed to say. And I was like, I have got to do
this more often. And then likeeight months later, I took my
family there. Loved it. Yeah, westill I can't remember stay. We
stayed in like the Gainey Rancharea. And now we love like
Scottsdale is awesome.

Rigden (05:20):
It's like, Here's your question. I think it's a part
that I'm from there. Yeah. But Ialso think like, and this is not
a knock on me or you, but it'slike we have different styles.
So it's like, people are inArizona. And I just see like,
the brands that just becausethat's what they're around. So
those people so I can mergecompany or like a hat company.
Like, like a lot of people do.
And the merge in the style thatthe use of graphic design use is

(05:42):
disgusting to me really, likethat's what they like I went to
a screen printing store or shopthe other day, and like the
merch that they're making forthemselves is like, Arizona flag
mixed with American flag, whichis great. Like, that's fine.

Trevor (05:59):
You're you're not America?

Rigden (06:01):
No. Yeah, it's just it's just like the typical. I don't
know. I don't I don't know whatthe word is for the style, but
it's just it's just typical. Gotit? I don't know. It's hard to
it's hard to describe. Okay. ButArizona is great. I love Texas,
too. Like I said, but

Mark (06:18):
I wouldn't want to live in either place to be honest. So I
think they're Utah. I thinkthey're great places to visit. I
don't even know if I want tolive in Utah forever. I'm
starting to think that I need togo somewhere a little bit more
northward. Like Like, NorthVirginia and cold. Yeah.

Trevor (06:36):
Like Montana. Yeah, Montana.

Mark (06:38):
Yeah. I don't know if Montana is humid. But yes, I

Trevor (06:41):
but also you're thinking like Pacific Northwest.

Mark (06:44):
Yeah. We're just like go back to the swamp lands of
Europe or something. Right. Thisthe mother My skin is clearly
not meant for desert weather.
Really? Nor is my wife's

Trevor (06:58):
needs some a little more humid. We'll go down to Texas.
Did ya

Mark (07:00):
know Texas was hot and humid. Get to Houston, I think.
Yeah, I think we need like morecold him. Maybe Vermont. Or New
Hampshire?

Trevor (07:10):
I mean, you're always gonna get hot, humid. It's hot
and humid. But cold, cold. Coldhumans bad dude. It's

Rigden (07:16):
true. Real close. Yeah,

Unknown (07:18):
like cold. Yeah,

Mark (07:19):
no, I don't exist.

Trevor (07:20):
I don't feel like I think

Mark (07:22):
it'd be better for my skin. Yeah.

Rigden (07:24):
Are you a dry skin or something that

Mark (07:25):
others? Oh, yeah.

Trevor (07:27):
I guess if that's true.
Oppositely. If that's whatyou're basing your entire living
quarters on is your skin, thenyeah, I think

Mark (07:33):
better for me. And I watched The Revenant the other
day and

Rigden (07:38):
fantastic movie. Yeah, I

Mark (07:40):
was like, wow.

Trevor (07:41):
But it's not like up north woods. Yeah, he's

Mark (07:43):
like, Well, yeah, I think he's like in Montana.

Trevor (07:45):
We're watching the Yellowstone right now. As back.

Rigden (07:50):
Have you seen the other 1883 1920? No. But those are
better. Really? I'd say watchthem in order. You're probably
already halfway throughYellowstone.

Trevor (08:00):
We're really new to it like a season deep.

Rigden (08:03):
It's not too late. I'll go 1883 1920 And then

Trevor (08:08):
Yellowstone. Really?
Yeah, but it makes us want tolive up there.

Rigden (08:11):
Oh, yeah. I'm not a horse guy. But I would be. I
think I am now after watchinghorses freak me out. But I do
like my phone was dying thehorse like a year and a half.
Really?

Trevor (08:20):
I year and a half ago.

Mark (08:21):
I almost died on a horse when I was a kid. Really? Yeah,
I was blocked you off. And likeI did a no, no, it bucked my
cousin off. She broke her armand collarbone. And I was like
five and I just held on for dearlife. or years or both? Yeah.

Trevor (08:36):
I watched a girl's game scary. I watched her girl get
but are like, what? Yeah, what akick in the back. What does that
called? Yeah.

Rigden (08:44):
There's a word for it.
Yeah, I

Trevor (08:45):
feel like there's a word for it. Yeah, I don't know. When
we walk. We used to walk througha horse pasture to get to
elementary school. And we'd walkthrough it and i She was just
standing behind it. And bumpthings up comes down on the
back.

Mark (08:58):
Has a cattle ranch. So I used to go down there in summers
and ride horses and do all kindsof fun stuff. horses aren't that
scary. Horses terrifying. Imean, you have to respect them.
Because if you're huge animalExactly. Sure. You don't like go
hang out behind them. You know,but yeah. All right. Well, I'd
love to ride horses. I could doit all day. All right,

Trevor (09:19):
let's move on. Let's move on. Horses man. Dry skin.
Arizona. Chris Hall. Let's moveon.

Mark (09:27):
Let's move on to

Trevor (09:29):
Rigden Brinckerhoff

Mark (09:30):
unstoppable marketing.
Yeah. With investigator RigdenBrinkerhoff. Yeah, that's
correct. So

Trevor (09:37):
okay. Rigden. So, tell us about you tell us about
Evora, what is evil aura. Andlet's just let's just get into
the Genesis story, actually,first, how did we get connected?
Do you remember?

Rigden (09:50):
Yeah. Solander tiktoks.
Let's go do it's working. Yeah.
And I reached out to because I'mlike, Hey, we That's right.
That's right. And then I thinkJust from the start, I just felt
like it was a good. Like, yeah,the synergy seemed to be just
connected more. Yeah. Versusother people were talking to and
then yeah, I was just like,let's do it. So yeah, that's

(10:10):
really hard you guys as youconnect with your content,
amazing. Okay. All right.
Working Man, Eve aura.

Trevor (10:15):
Let's talk.

Rigden (10:16):
Yeah, so a little bit about me. I am 26 Right now, um,
I grew up in Arizona, alwaysbeen entrepreneurial. And I used
to hate saying that I used totry not to use the word
entrepreneurial. And I thinkit's because my brother at one
time, I might have used the wordlike, when I was like, 14, or
something. I was like, I thinklike, entrepreneurship seems

(10:37):
really cool to me. And he waslike, everyone wants to be an
entrepreneur. And that's like,something I've always hated as
being like somebody else. Youknow, I think most people, yeah,
maybe more than others, I don'tknow. But then from that point
on, I was like, I'm not gonna beentrepreneur, I don't know what
I'm gonna do. Like I knew I lovebusiness. I knew I know, I'm
super analytical. Also reallycreative. So took Nerf guns

(11:01):
apart, modified them to makethem better to have the best one
out of all my friends did allthis stuff. I was always doing
stuff, flipping phones, fixingthem, selling them for more,
whatever. So I've always beenthat way. served a mission for
my church, went to Texas, like Isaid, got back and then started
a Christmas Light Company. Niceand did solar to kind of act as

(11:23):
a vehicle to make allow myselfto live and then I just think
sales is a great way to start.
Sure. Any young person's life.
So anyways, that's a littlebackstory on me. So skipped
college, when I actually went tocollege for a year, and I'm not
one of those guys is likecollege is not I know you and I
have nothing against it. Likepeople who say like college is
overrated, because you went forfour years. So you're kind of

(11:43):
allowed to say that. I knew thatI knew two extra

Trevor (11:48):
years. I can apologize.
So

Rigden (11:51):
it's got been it does it. I think one of the biggest
benefits is network. Yeah. Andso that's actually one thing
that I, which we might touch on.
But yeah, so I skipped college,I went for a year, like I said,
and not that it wasn't for me, Ijust was like, I just know what
I'm going to do isn't going to,I'm not gonna utilize what I'm
using as far as like a degree.

(12:11):
So stop going my whole family.
Like, and this is a big part ofmy story, which I'm not going to
go into it deep. My whole familywas like, look at all these
examples around us. Like theyall didn't go to school and look
at him now. You know, it's andit's, I knew and they're gonna I
say, by their names, say

Mark (12:30):
so I mean by that, like, it turned out bad for them.
Yeah, it's like look at thisguy. He's jumped from this. This
this this this this. Okay, noworries that your family was
like, stay on the go to college.
Yeah. Daddy consistent path.
Yep. Yeah, job.

Rigden (12:45):
Yeah. And I think I'm grateful also, to have really
good and bad examples in mylife. I think we all have those.
But I have a lot of really goodexamples and very specific to
like me, like my personality,like some people, what they
struggle with, like, whatthey're bad at what they're good
at. Like, it's, I'm sure peoplecan find this in their life for
them personally, but I feel likethey're very tailored the people

(13:06):
around me for like, who I am to,like, draw off of like, hey,
that person is a bad example.
This this person is a goodexample that so yeah, it was
there. They're like telling me,You're gonna go to go to
college, you're going to be likethis guy or this guy. And I knew
I wasn't going to be done theonly one who knew that. Also, at
the same time, I kind of doubtedthat right? Yes, yeah. 20 years
old. They're all successful.

(13:28):
They're probably right. But alsoI knew I was right. So anyways,
yeah, I had my Christmas likebusiness and I did that high
school. kept it going. I broughtmy brother and after doing that
for a year, and we started likescaling it again, just small
service company hiring a coupleguys. We were stopping doing the
jobs and then started Evora. SoI'll kind of get into more now.

(13:49):
Being from Arizona nativeamerican jewelry is like a
massive part of the culture asfar as like like historical
Arizona it's not like you walkaround Gilbert Arizona sure
people are talking aboutturquoise jewelry they're not
but I always thought that wasreally sterling silver turquoise
loved it wanted to find a ringthat I wanted to wear couldn't
really find anything that wasunder 300 bucks. Because it was

(14:12):
made by like a jeweler. So I waslike I'm just gonna make some
myself and just like wanted tobe like a little hobby I did on
the side you know, whatever. Noteven on the side like that. I
just want to make one ring so Igot some simple stuff and made
some stuff to my sister's likehey, you should make some for
other people. So I startedmaking them them then later on
she's like you should do thisthing where people come in and

(14:33):
they make their own jewelry.
There's a place up in Utah.
Yeah, that's similar. Yeah. Likethat's a that's a cool concept.
And so I had on the back pocketstarted just making rings for
people knew I didn't want to dolike I never wanted to be like
the Crafter like That's right.
But I mean, just scrap you don'thave any experience. I'm just
like doing whatever. And I haveagain, solar and Christmas

(14:54):
lights so I'm just kind of doingit when I can but making rings
selling to people and then ThenI bring in my friend grant. And
we're like, hey, let's do thiswhole green session or like this
workshop thing. So we get hisbrother's room. He had this big
house, one room, it was like 200square feet, probably very
small. And we just startmarketing sessions, just like on

(15:18):
our organic, we had like couple100 followers on Evora. And
we're just like, hey, so theconcept was, pick your stone,
pick all your silver options,and you can make it in three
hours, we'll be your instructorwill help you make it a to z,
and you get a custom piece ofjewelry that you made kind of an
experience thing. So closelyafter I or shortly after that I

(15:39):
determined like, a veryimportant thing to me is self
expression as being differentkind of like alluded to earlier.
I've always felt the need to bedifferent and unique and express
what makes me different, which Ithink is a common narrative
nowadays. Yeah. But I felt likethat was a common thing across
human beings, like everyonewanted to express what made them

(16:00):
what made them individual. Andso that that was like, really
why I wanted to start doing thewhole drink jewelry session.
Yep. So people could come in andmake something that was unique.
And then they felt fulfilled,having something that express
them uniquely, why was a hugestone that tell us something
about the personality of as asmall black stone, that tell us
something if it's reallyintricate, that says something,

(16:23):
you know, so people could couldmake choices in their experience
that told them about them. And Ithink everyone wants out to
outwardly show who theirpersonality is. So that was kind
of like our, our message. Yep.
So we do that for two years. Andwe get to the point where like
six months in, and it's justlike we're attracting the wrong

(16:46):
people. Not that I've anything,it's just people just like moms,
and like kind of blogger typepeople. And I was wanting to go
after Gen Z like people like me,like I wanted to go after young
audience like trendier peoplewho wanted to find something in
its infancy and be like theperson to make it cool. And
we're just getting moms like,like just grandmas and like,

(17:06):
girls parties, like bacheloretteparties, just the wrong people.
So that kind of put the fire outa little bit for me, it made me
less excited about it for awhile. Again, I still have
Christmas lights and solar. Soit was like kind of occupying
me. And so there's like threetimes where I was like, I'm just
gonna, I'm just gonna sell forfor what I can, and just like go

(17:27):
full on on Christmas lights,because at Christmas, my
business was also scaling and wewere doing good. But uh, or
solar, which is one of the otherYep. And all three times I wish
I wrote them down, I'm surehaving somewhere but all three
times it wasn't just like, I gotreally fired up. But like
something very tangible wouldhappen. Literally at the lowest
point where like, pull me backand be like, like, I were there.

(17:51):
I don't know what I can'tremember examples. But there are
three distinct times where Ialmost not quit because I
genuinely never quit. Yeah. Butjust want to sell it and just
like go on to something else.
Something pulled me out. And sothe time where I was at my
lowest low, probably that I canremember was like end of 2019
beginning of 2020. Which is likeI'm doing I'm just gonna sell so

(18:11):
I started talking to a businessbroker. And it wasn't worth
much, but just whatever I couldget for it. Yeah, go down that
path a little bit. And then I'mplaying basketball one day. And
I wore these these watches inhigh school, not not even wear
watches, but these other watchesin high school loved him. And so
I saw another kid wearing whenhe had off by his shoes, and I

(18:32):
looked at it and all of a suddenlike an epiphany comes I'm like,
why don't we do the same thingthat we're doing with rings with
watches? Because I would lovethat. Like I would love to have
a watch. Like I'm wearing that'smaybe designed a little bit
different. You know, looks alittle different has different
pieces, whatever. Yep. But thatI can customize and make it my
own. And so from there, I waslike dude, the fires like I was

(18:52):
stoked again. So that was again,that was like January think of
2020 Okay, so start developingthe watches from 2020 which ADC
I didn't know what I was doing.
Yep, found a manufacturedcontacted probably 100 different
people. The typical story, youknow, just talking to him.

(19:16):
Here's our concept. Here's aminimum word as we want to do. A
lot of them said no, finallyonce said yes.

Trevor (19:22):
And we How many do you go through? Do you remember like
talking back and forth before

Rigden (19:27):
somebody said yes, realistically, probably like
3035

Trevor (19:31):
I asked that question because I think that a lot of
people and sorry to cut you offbut I think this is kind of like
a little good learning. Youknow, thing for people who are
listening who are just gettingstarted with businesses is like,
you hear the word no so much.
And just because you hear theword no. Like doesn't mean that
there is a Yes. Isn't a yes, inthe future. You know, and when

(19:52):
it comes to production, you'vegot something well that's called
like your MOQ which is like it'spretty much your minimum or Does
that sound for minimum orderquantity? Right? Yeah. And so
it's like, you're probablyhearing like, as a new business,
hey, I don't have a ton of moneyto fulfill the their MOQ. And
that's probably the reason why alot of these people are saying

(20:13):
no to you, right? Or you'rehaving to say no to that. Yeah.
It might be that way, you know.
And so, I think 30 is a prettylike, standard.

Rigden (20:23):
Yeah, yeah, it was a lot. And I think that out. So I
think you said there always is ayes. You know, and that's a
cliche thing, but genuinely,there always will be. Yes. Yeah.
Whether, I mean, there's a lotto go down that path, but I
truly believe there's alwaysyes, yeah. Um, and also along
that, like, you're gonna getrejected. I can't remember
proctor Galloway, you guys knowwho he is? Another entrepreneur

(20:45):
guy. He says, like, if you wantto be entrepreneur, just be
ready to eat crap, like all day,like everyday, all day, rejected
all day, every day. And we allhear that about
entrepreneurship. Obviously,it's true. That's why I think
going back to like sales, Ithink sales like door to door
specifically, or just sales.
Like I think that's one of thebest ways to start any person's
career who wants to be inbusiness because you, you learn

(21:07):
and grow in ways you can'treally learn in other ways, like
you're gonna get rejected. Butif you can, if you can maximize
the time you get rejected in aday, if you're rejected once
every week, because you have abig deal. And let's say it takes
a week to kind of nurture adeal. That's one rejection. But
if you can knock on 100 doors aday, get rejected 70 times in
one day, like that's, I thinkthat's like better experience

(21:32):
than than most of the things cangive you. So, yeah, I went
through about 3035 of themcontacted a bunch more, but 30
of them responded. And firststep is to get like your mold.
So that's a relatively expensivecost. To bet on my pocket. Just
got the mold made. Well, sorry.
Sorry. Sorry, I skipped the bigstep. First had to find a CAD

(21:54):
designer, help, like, what doyou want to look like whatever
went through that, that took awhole year to get everything all
the way to the mold made? Andthen they you know, injection
mold injection plastic into themold, ship our first sample like
a year later, so like March, orJanuary or March ish? 2021. Yep.
And I think we're gonna launch Ithink, at the time, I was like,

(22:15):
This is gonna take like sixmonths, we can launch the end of
2020. Obviously, it took a lotlonger get him on like, Hey,
we're gonna order a bunch rightafter I get these. These are
good to go. And I test thewaterproof was a big thing. They
needed to be waterproof, becausewe wanted them to be like, very
versatile. Like, that's justeverything I have. I use this
backpack next to me every day,and I use it on every trip. I go

(22:36):
on. I just love things that Ican wear these shorts. Yeah, I
can go to the gym and I can doanything, right. So want to be
very versatile. So got themtested, the waterproof didn't
work. Waterproof, like wasbroken. So I guess there was
miscommunication. They're like,Oh, we thought you didn't care
about that. Like that's that'snot that's not what he said. So

(22:57):
how to restart pretty much likehow to read open molds. Yeah,
which is a whole nother year.
Yeah. So go through the wholeprocess that and that was
whatever, like I was still hypedup about it. So I'm like, you
know, it's just part of it. It'sa whole nother year we're still
doing the jewelry stuff at thisat this point. Still. At the end
of 2020 I'm sorry 2021 I had amentor or a friend a mentor tell
me he's like do like you're justdoing too many things like you

(23:18):
got Christmas lights solar, anyfor that you don't like you
don't mean anybody whoespecially the beginning of
their career, who's doing thingsimpactfully and who's like, they
become really successful whostarted off by doing 234 or five
things you can do that later onwhen you're not an operator. But
right now if you're gonna be anoperator, you need to pick one
of them. Sounds like the clearone for me was the VOR like I

(23:40):
had the watch is almost done.
And like I wanted to give it twoyears I was like hey, I'm gonna
commit two years just to go fullin sell my equity into Christmas
I business stopped doing solarand just go for it on a boil. So
that was going to end the 2020watches were done beginning of
2020 to launch them in Februaryof 2022. And we launched just as

(24:05):
custom watches so our deliverywas come on the website kinda
like Nike ID every single partso there's there's nine
different pieces on the watchyou could pick every single
piece customize it we had thatwas cool. quickly learned that
it wasn't as cool because it wasvery it was filled with friction
for the customer. Right you goto a place you have millions of

(24:27):
options, millions ofcombinations. It's hard to
choose but uh

Mark (24:32):
and friction for you right because now you have to hold
exactly views and then you haveto put them together and then
ship them. Yep.

Rigden (24:40):
Which turned out to be a happy accident right so we
ordered so literally how we gotour inventory we got the case
which is the part that holds thechip. That's one like piece.
Yeah, like the the bezels thepictures for those as little
pieces that go around the top.
Yeah, the adapters that go thathold the band and then the band
had all these pieces shipped tous individually with all the
colors you wanted. which gave usthe flexibility to then test, we

(25:00):
didn't have like, we have 1000of this and 1000 of this and
3000 of this, we just we hadjust parts. So we could go test
a bunch of different things,which allowed us to then go,
Okay, we want to make a designand say this is going to be
called our John B watch. So wemade a design out of one watch
and took a picture of it andsaid we had 100 of them,
whatever. Yeah. So we startdoing like premium designs.

(25:21):
Those like our, our conversionrate, and other metrics started
boost a little bit once westarted doing that. And then did
some like we talked, I talked tosome guy who kind of like talk
something similar, like a kitmorphed his idea into what we
had is like watch kits, so waslike two bands, two cases and a
bunch of parts, you could getthe whole kit, interchange

(25:43):
things as you wanted. So, andthen again, every time we made
one of these changes, there wasthere's a few more in between,
but had a lot of instances wherewe like, edited the business
model in a way. Yeah. And foundlike little successes and little
nuggets of each one that worked.
And to where now we justlaunched like, I don't know,

(26:04):
you, you we were working withyou guys at best. The Yeah. At
the time when we launched it. SoI'm trying to think of when it
was, let's say four months ago,we launched what's called the,
our bundles, which is basicallya kit mix with like a pre made
watch. So you start you buy apre made watch. And you buy a
bezel set or a part set whichyou can interchange them extra
band, you get that offerdiscounted price. So that's like

(26:25):
been our, our winner. It'scombining literally everything
we did the past year into one.
So anyways, that's kind of wherewe're at. Now. There's a lot of
things that I skipped over. Butyeah, it's been awesome. And
it's been a it's like it's, itgets more fun as time goes on.
Like I always think it's likefun. There's obviously lows and
highs still. But yeah, it's ablast. And I love it.

Mark (26:45):
I think what's interesting is that you basically have three
years of pretty disappointing.
Not I'm gonna call themfailures, but it's like, a year
you get your product, it's notthe product you want, right
another year, you get yourproduct, but then it turns out
that it's like our offering isactually off. Okay, let's keep
testing, figuring it out. Andthen a year later, right you

(27:08):
further through all theselearnings, you're finally
starting to see growth and nowyou're pacing to be you know,
what kind of what kind ofcompany? Are you pacing to be
this year?

Rigden (27:19):
Oh, you asked me that.
Yeah. I mean, we're on track todo I don't know, like, I don't
know, this year, but like thenext 12 months, probably on
track to do a million, a millionand a half, I'd say. And that's
again, that's still minuscule,obviously, but like from what we
started out, that's

Trevor (27:34):
huge drop. Well, that's, I mean, that's what I was just
talking to Reagan right beforeas like, you know, what I love
about you guys coming on thispodcast is when we so we work
with we work with Evora. And sowe've seen a lot of their growth
we saw like in the early stagesof where they were at we saw

(27:57):
this custom nightmare. You know,we saw all this, we saw it, we
saw the decisions that they weremaking. And what I love about
this episode is you know, Ithink there's so much
relatability into you guys, youknow you a lot of the you didn't
you didn't have a whole ton ofbudget to work with. Like it was

(28:17):
just like, let's test and let'shave this internal operation
manpower where we can let's,let's create pre made watches
and ditch the custom and seewhat happens, you know, and I
remember when we did that it waslike, hey, logically, it makes
sense. But what if it doesn't?
Yeah, so yes, I was like thething. Yeah, cuz that's what
everyone was, you know, soeveryone was buying, you know,
but then you have this like ideaof, well, friction, like could

(28:39):
could friction be hurting us andI remember your guys's
conversion rate, and I'm sureyou're okay with me saying this
it was like under a percent alot of times you know, and but
the moment you guys made thatchange now you guys are like,
oftentimes well above 2% Youknow, which is that jump is

(28:59):
unreal in that space. And so Ilove the steps you've made what
are some of the like, what weresome of the biggest learnings
you've had especially in thelast year? I want to know last
year yeah, right first two yearswhen like Mark was saying a
waterproof it was just you know,last year what's been like one

(29:19):
of your biggest lessons you'velearned as you've taken Evora
from you know really just like asmaller brand you know, smaller
lifestyle brand to now what'spacing from an AR perspective
over a million dollars and thenin you know 12 months from now
it's gonna be even bigger thanthat because I think you guys

(29:39):
are making some massive changeswhat what's what's been one of
your biggest lessons you'velearned?

Rigden (29:45):
There's a lot and it's hard to think of the best ones
off top my head but I woulddefinitely say like and we hear
it a lot. At least I do it justbeing willing to like throw what
you think is work. are like whatyou think is the right path? Out
the window? And just test newthings? Because I don't know. I

(30:07):
bet that's out too. That'sprobably one of the biggest
things we did. We just we sawwhat wasn't working. And we're
just like, hey, like weliterally change our business
model. Obviously, at the end ofthe day, we're an econ brand.
Yeah. And, but that was ourmodel, but like, we changed the
actual structure of the business12 times over the past year.
Yeah, until we found what reallyworked. And we're still going to
tweak it and change it. But wefound like the bread and butter
now, that's it being willing tojust scrap what you're currently

(30:30):
doing. If it's not really whereyou think it could be. Yeah, and
what it should be. Yeah, like,we just could, I could just, it
just felt the brand felt likemore cheesy. It felt like, it
wasn't like people weren'tstoked about it. Obviously, from
like a marketing and metricside, things weren't looking
very pretty. They're sure. SoI'd say just be willing to like
scrap and like, pivot when I seethings aren't aren't working and

(30:54):
do it quick. Because I think thequicker you do it, I can be bad
at that. Because I'm aperfectionist. Yeah, by nature.
So I think just doing itquicker. And as fast as you can
just pivoting.

Trevor (31:04):
Yeah, that's a solid. I actually really liked that.
Because we I mean, Mark, andI've been in the E commerce
space for over seven years now.
And I can't tell you how manytimes we've, whether it's a
friend who owns a business, orwe've worked with somebody or
we've consulted or it's abusiness we've owned, you get so
many people get caught up intrying to make something that's
not working work, rather thanjust change. What's not working?

(31:27):
Yep. And pivot. Yep. You know,like, we spend so much time just
like no, no, we, this is theright idea. I want this to work
so bad for whatever thatinternal reason is, in the
founder or marketers head, whenin reality, it's like, you can
just flip the switch, you canflip the script, you don't have
to do it that way. You can makemoney and succeed in other ways,

(31:50):
it can still be you didn'tchange your watch, right? You
were still a watch. You werestill a self expressive Watch
Company. But you just made somealterations to how somebody can
self Express. And that's what'shelped you guys grow. This
episode of The UnstoppableMarketer Podcast is sponsored by
Besty, the number one customersurvey platform for E commerce

(32:12):
and direct to consumerbusinesses. Mark, I remember
when I was a CMO, no matter whatwe did our attribution that
never seem to be right andgetting feedback around why our
customers were purchasing ourproducts was much easier said
than done. Focus groups were waytoo time consuming, and survey
tools are too complicated,limited and way too expensive.

Mark (32:35):
That is a pain point that every ecommerce brand or
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(32:58):
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Trevor (33:16):
Geez, I like that. Well, I guess that's why hundreds of
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Rigden (33:36):
Yeah, and then two other instances of that, because I
really do think that's a major.
I think I'll always take thatinto other things I do. And
just, well, two things. So like,my business partner before, it's
really good to just he just andI don't have a business partner
now. But before with the ringstuff, he was really good at
just like having an idea andjust going with it before it's
perfect. I'm completelyopposite. Like I said, so I want

(33:57):
something to be perfect. Hetaught me a lot about that,
where now I get criticized byour team for just like doing
stuff before it's ready. Yeah.
And it's like I know, I mean, Ihate to be like this, but I know
I'm right. A lot of timesbecause I know my nature is
opposite, but I know it's bestto do it just just go Yeah, so
that's the first thing I thinkalso just before you're ready to

(34:18):
just go just just start doingstuff. And then the second thing
like I said, so the other theother pivot we made the big
pivot is like the whole ringstuff. All the jewelry stuff. I
was talking to another mentor inthe middle of 2021 22 last year.
And he was just like dude, yougotta pick rings your watches
again another another lesson Ilearned is just focus. Like

(34:38):
solar because it's it vora, cutthem out focus like a sniper.
And then within Evora, you'redoing rings and watches your
your retail your ecommerce, cutone out like just just focus on
solidity on the call. I decidedto he told me that and I can
meet it. I was like yep, we werechatting on a retail store and
stopping the whole experiencewhere you come in to make a
watch or make a ring where it'sgoing to be ecommerce brand

(34:59):
eventually women had to retailagain. Sure. But like, again, I
was willing to just pivot. AndI'm not saying like, Oh, I'm
this awesome guy. Come on here.
I just learned a lesson a fewtimes before that, like you'd
use have to be willing to changethings that again, I was soaked
about the retail stuff. Like Iwanted to build the Build A Bear
for Gen Z. Yeah, I had a lothave a big vision for that.
Yeah. But just bear for gins.

(35:22):
Yeah, I just feel like there'slike, I just envisioned this,
like, all these these storesinside all these malls that had
like the sickest products thatyou could customize, right, like
watches, jewelry, or like rings,whatever it is, you can just
like weed, those products wouldchange. But the concept is just
build a bear. Don't thinkthere's something there. But
yeah, so those are, I'd saypivoting focus. And I think

(35:43):
focus, again, is the can mean alot of things. But I think
specifically just not being aShaka and not doing too many
things at once not spreadingyour bandwidth too wide. And
just focusing on and even thatthat can you can go layers deep.
Like I said, my life was spreadout between three different
ventures narrowed that down toone, once it's in the one that
doesn't mean your focus, becausethen within that within there, I

(36:04):
was still a shotgun. So then Ihad to focus in there then still
now. It's like, what are wegoing to focus on influencers
more? Or like ambassadors more?
And we got to pick one becausewe have a small team? Yeah. You
know, it's like being focused onone and building it, you know?
Yeah. Tell us about that.

Mark (36:18):
Yeah, I think two other lessons here is patience and
simplification. Yeah, becauseyou're talking a lot about
pivoting and testing. And Ithink a lot of people get caught
up and just doing a lot ofthings. But the core of your
business at the Trevormentioned, this didn't change,
you didn't know thatpersonalized or self expressive
watches was the company to make.
But in your experimentation,right? You went too far in

(36:42):
personalization, right? You wenttoo far. And we often do that,
as people, we make things waymore complicated than they need
to be because they go,personalization means everyone
wants to use every little partof every little thing on this
watch. And you've learned,actually, that's creating more
friction. So let's decrease thefriction, which is
simplification, but usingtesting to simplify the process.

(37:03):
Yep, yep. Right. And I thinkthat's really the key when
you're testing things is, ifyou're going to make a pivot,
the pivot should almost alwaysbe geared towards making the
process more simple, and haveless friction. If you're doing
that with your tests that'shelping you focus in right on
the customer experience, whichis what it's all about, even I

(37:25):
mean, we get lost in this idea.
Like everything needs to befancy, everything needs to look
good on a website. But really,it needs to be easy, simple
process so someone can get whatthey want. Nobody wants to sit
and try to decide between 100different things, right? It's

Trevor (37:40):
it's the Amazon like law, right? Like every I'm sure
everybody here who's shopped onAmazon has been like, Why does
Amazon still look the same? Liketheir checkout process as it
did? Like 10 years ago? Justfirst? No, but it's
frictionless. I've never had anissue shopping at Amazon, from
getting from like, adding tocart to purchase, you know, and

(38:03):
it's super frictionless. It'sugly. But they're just like,
yeah, we know what works likeyeah, pretty isn't always the
thing, you know, and it's thedefault experience exactly what
people expect. Yeah, exactly.
It's the same way that Shopify?
So if you're a Shopify store,every Shopify checkout is the
exact same. It's a universalthing. Yeah. So there's a few
things that you can change.
Like, I think you can change.

(38:24):
They're coming out one click.
Yeah, yeah. They're doing likethat. Yeah. Like, just by now.
Yeah. Yeah. News. And, and they,you know, I think you can change
like backgrounds and you canchange, like, rather than paying
out, you could say, submit theirverbiage. Yeah, there's a couple
of things. But for the mostpart, like you cannot, and they
tell you not to do it, becauseit's just like, friction is the
enemy to every single business.

(38:48):
Like, the more choices, the moreyou add, the more you're gonna
get beat up.

Rigden (38:53):
Yeah. And that's just a rule. I think in life, too. It's
like, and if you have frictionto anything, you're, whoever's
doing that thing is a milliontimes less likely to do it. So
remove it, I'd say yeah. makingit simpler. Yeah, removing any
friction and just going going atany problem from like, a
customer experience standpointwith like, How can I remove

(39:13):
friction? I think that probablymight be better answered. But
like, for me right now, I thinkthat's probably the best
question to ask is like, how doI remove friction before? It's
like, yeah, how do I make it?
You know, my upsell better howto make it such as like, just,
there's remove friction First,start from there, make it as
smooth and buttery as possible,and then go for sure.

Mark (39:30):
And I think, I think a mistake a lot of people make
when, when trying to figure outwhat friction is like, you have
to define what friction is.
Friction isn't necessarily alonger or shorter experience.
Yeah, yeah, true. Right.
Friction is frustration. So ifyou if you replace friction with
frustration in the userexperience, that is friction. So

(39:53):
where does someone becomefrustrated in their journey, not
necessarily making the journeyshorter because sometimes we're
making the journey a lot littlebit longer, you can reduce that
friction or frustration byletting them self answer right
or self selecting a quiz orgiving them the right option up
front making those optionsSimple, right? Yes, no kind of

(40:14):
questions are very easy toanswer quizzes or whatever it
might be steps, whatever stepsso they can self selecting get
to what they want to see quickerthan going to a collection and
trying to choose between 100things, how do they? How do you
show them what they actuallywant to see? In an easier way?
Right? Yep, it's faster to sendsomeone to a collection page.
But it's not always the journeyof less friction.

Trevor (40:37):
You're seeing a lot of brands right now who are using
pre purchase quizzes to say,hey, like, tell us a little bit,
right? Like, if you go to anyskincare, you know, company
right now, or any CPG company alot of times, like, nutrition,
whatever, they'll they'll askyou like, Hey, are you male,
female? What's your weight? Youknow, what's your height? What's
your goal? What's your goal? Howmuch do you How much do you

(40:59):
exercise? You know, and thenthey're gonna spit you to the
sub the right supplements or theright, hey, do oily skin or dry
skin like Mark, you know, it'slike, oh, I got dry skin. Okay,
cool. This is what you need, youknow. So it's a much
theoretically, theoretical,longer process. But the friction
of sorting through trying tofind dried skin versus moist,

(41:22):
more moist skin stuff, you know,like, so you're spot on. Now,
the thing I'll add to that islike, friction kills. And then
there's, there's like an anxietything, which I think ties into
friction. So like, it's achoice. You know, friction would
be, you know, more choices thatare unnecessary, or anxiety
would be, I'm not getting theoutcome that I anticipated. Oh,

(41:44):
yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah, anxiety,

Mark (41:45):
anxiety, and in our world is created when you don't get
feedback off of your input.

Trevor (41:52):
Yeah, I clicked here. So I thought it was gonna go here.
But I didn't. Yeah, anxietywould be. I saw an ad that said,
like that said, you know, thebest, like, self expressive
watch on the market. And then Iclick on the ad, and it sends me
to an Apple Watch. Yeah, like,that's it like, Wait, where am

(42:14):
I? But now I'm here, I must havedone something wrong. I must
have clicked on the wrong thing.
That's kind of your anxietypiece.

Mark (42:20):
And I'm glad you brought that up. Because I think that's
the other part of this frictionis it doesn't have to be
necessarily even an experiencethat you're building or whatever
you're doing on your website.
It's just simply matching whatyou're doing from a marketing
perspective on your social mediaor on your ads to where people
are going on your website.
Right. So it's, it's as simpleas that sometimes, like, instead

(42:41):
of sending somebody to acollection page or your
homepage, maybe send them to theproduct they're clicking on.
Yeah, right. Yeah. And as simpleof a journey, that is, it makes
a big difference if you'resending people and it matches
the experience that they areexpecting. Right? Yeah, right.
Yeah. So make sure that you arematching what they expect to
land on, instead of sending themto somewhere out to another

(43:02):
destination. And they're like,wait, I mean, I bought a ticket
for San Francisco, but I'm inLos Angeles, like, what's going
on?

Trevor (43:08):
Yeah, for sure.

Mark (43:11):
What's California but not where I want it. Right? It's
close. Yeah, ish. Close ish, butvery different, though. Very
different.

Trevor (43:20):
What's, what's one thing that you're super excited about
right now that you guys aredoing? Like, what's one thing
that's like, you're excited thatyou feel like is gonna move the
needle for you guys?

Rigden (43:31):
A new product we're working on number one. Number
two, I think influencers? Andlike brand collabs. Okay. Talk
about that. Because influencersis like a, that's a pretty broad
statement. And we're not, we'renot doing anything super
special. Like it's just productseating. Like, I think there's

(43:52):
so many ways to go about it.
We've been doing it since dayone before in 2018, where we
started the ring stuff, justreaching out to people and
trying to get them to post likethat's as basic as it gets. And
that's what we were doing for along time. And it seems I think
the standard for a startingplace is product seating. Yeah,
but for whatever reason, we justdidn't do that for a long time.
Yeah, so now we've just beenhounding like crazy. Just like
every single person that's asolid match to our brand. Hey,

(44:14):
we'd love to get you a watch.
Like, like no strings attached.
I think that guy on your guys'spod six months ago or something
said said that exact phrase.
Yeah. Oh, my God. We got it.

Trevor (44:27):
But yeah, shout out Cody. Yeah. Cody, Mr. Winnick,
Mr. Olynyk. can share. Exactly,yeah. So

Rigden (44:36):
um, yeah, no strings attached. And we did the amount
of people and it grows as youlike, we've noticed to kind of a
side note, we've noticed as ourbrand molds into, like, if
you've visually look at ourbrand for three seconds, you're
going to you're going to likesome emotions will be what's the
word? Like populated for lack ofa better word evoked evoked?

(44:58):
Yeah, nice. Oh, Our emotionsthat we evoked a year ago are
different than the ones today.
And it's today it's much closerto like what I want it to be.
Yeah. And so because of that,the influencers that see it the
amount of people that are sayingyes, to just the seating alone,
people are much more attractedoff in the first few seconds,
we're looking at our page or ourproduct, right, because of the

(45:19):
changes we've made. Yeah. And sogetting a lot of people to say
yes, there and then they post.
And then we just find like, Codysaid, again, yeah, find the
cream of the crop through doingthat process. And then, and then
you start working with them oneon one, like a normal cloud,
hey, we'll pay you for this.
Typically, they'll probably giveyou a discount because they
already like your stuff. Yeah,you've built some other

(45:39):
relationship with them, you'vekind of built rapport by giving
them something free. So I'mgonna go more into that. But
that's kind of basic, justtypical products eating start

Trevor (45:49):
well, and one more thing that you guys are doing, and you
can maybe dive deeper. But likethe the other thing, I think
it's super critical, is like,that becomes the majority of
your like, ad content, right?
Like a big portion of that,like, that's something that we
see a ton. It's like, you guysare like, turning that seems
like 60 70% of your ads are notstuff you created. No, it's
stuff they created 13 birds withone stone? Yeah, it's like, it's

(46:12):
amazing. Yeah, we get like,yeah, out of that one.

Rigden (46:18):
Out of that one interaction, or like that one
channel, through influences weget, you know, 10 different
things tend to benefits for us.
Yep. Bear with me, we've learnedand this is maybe obvious, but
we've learned more and more thatinfluencers truly is just
relationship building. Yeah. Andso treating it like if you see
an influencer, who just doessomething cool, like sending a

(46:40):
congratulate a letter in themail. I mean, that sounds we
haven't done that even but likeI think I that's kind of where
we're headed, just likenurturing the the influencers
that we have, and buildingrelationships with them, I think
is is critical. We again, wehaven't executed on that. But I
think that's another layer thatyou can do to amplify the
influencer game. Yeah. Forstudent like a friend, I guess,

Mark (47:02):
anything on the product roadmap that you're excited
about?

Rigden (47:05):
Yeah, so we have an I don't know when it'll be out.
But it's nothing evolutionary,or like revolutionary. But we're
developing AppleWatch cases thatare interchangeable. With like,
bands, adapters case, it'sreally slender and really slim.
And it's kind of like turningyour because our message now is

(47:26):
like less about self expressionstill is, but it's more about
adventuring daily, and findingadventure daily and creating
adventure daily. And anotherword we've kind of picked up on
is like detours. So I think alot of times this kind of come
around to the product thing. Anda second lot of times I think
people are disappointed whenthings don't go as planned. Like
if I'm on a trip to California.
And I have you know, we're doingthis at this time. This is this

(47:49):
time and this at this time. Andso it doesn't go as planned in
something else. And it's likemaybe seems as like a negative.
A lot of people are bummed outabout that. But we're trying to
change the narrative. We'retrying to like I myself, I'm
trying to live this way more andtry and we're trying to inspire
people to Evora, to live thisway more where something
happens, something spontaneoushappens, something unexpected
happens that changes plans. Andlike be excited about that.

(48:11):
Because that's typically wherethe most exciting things happen.
The most memorable, memorable,memorable things happen. And
along those lines, if you go tothe grocery store, I think if
people live this way, I knowthis for a fact for me, I don't
live this way perfectly, but I'mtrying to if people just walk
into a grocery store, and youare automatically thinking, how
can I make me grocery shopping?

(48:33):
more adventurous or like more?
Just like more spicy, I guess?
Like how can I turn this normal,like, mundane, mundane thing
into something more exciting. Ifyou go into everything you do
with that thought it'll becomesecond nature just to make
things more exciting and yourlife will be a lot more
adventurous and fun. So goingalong lines, like everything

(48:55):
we're making is around those.
That's why our watches are verypoppy. And they you know, still
express yourself, but they'reversatile. You can take them
anywhere you can do anythingwith them. And one inspire
people by wearing the watchesand remind people to live that
way. And so again, going to yourpoint Apple watches like yeah,
Apple Watches are kind ofboring. They have a lot of cool
features that our watches don'tthat's not why we have the
watches. But if you're gonnawear an Apple Watch, at least

(49:17):
make it in a way that likeinspires you to live in a
different way. Sure. And so Idon't think there's a case out
there right now that'sinterchangeable. That will look
like ours. And that's like asexpressive as ours. So I'm
really stoked about that but acouple other things that's
probably that's the thing thatcomes to mind. Nice. That new
product I think we

Trevor (49:39):
should have all the spice up the podcast maybe like
switched shoes and interchangedher shoes you wear my shoes I
wish you to do you know spicedup the podcast, see what kind of
we should have, you know, moreof my kids kind of inspiration.

Mark (49:52):
I did spice it up I want my kids X today.

Trevor (49:54):
You can take them off and put them on at any any given
time. I'm also wearing

Mark (49:58):
my my son Is Batman inspired songs he gave me? Nice.
Nothing but yeah,

Rigden (50:04):
it was incredible. You know,

Trevor (50:06):
you're very self expressive today I

Mark (50:08):
am. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. I'm not a superhero guy.
Like, really at all. I'm withyou. I'll go see a movie. But
I'm not counting down the day islike, I'm not seeing any movie
on launch day or I'll usuallywait till they're on video.
That's not your thing. But whenyou're when you're a dad, you
will find yourself wearing somesuperhero stuff.

Rigden (50:29):
I don't I don't doubt that a bit.

Trevor (50:31):
I haven't yet. So yeah, no, I disagree with you. Your
kids have your

Mark (50:35):
it hasn't bought us some superhero socks. Now to match
his Batman socks.

Trevor (50:41):
He hasn't. He wouldn't think like that, man. He's about
nice enough, I guess. Yeah.
Yeah, he's nice. He's great,though. Not thinking I actually
remember those things. Helistens to every one of these
episodes. Yeah. Why don't youWhy aren't you buying your dad
any Batman socks? You know, saveyour money, dude, save your

Rigden (50:57):
things I

Trevor (50:59):
will do this has been awesome to your mom. Oh, by
them. It's not your money.
Let's, let's maybe let's endhere. What's like, what's one
piece of advice that you wouldmaybe give to somebody who's
either just getting started orwho's like, struggling to figure
it out? In the entrepreneur,space, paranormal space.

Rigden (51:21):
If I if I was thinking about it for a little bit, I'd
probably come up with a betteranswer. But top of my mind is
just I don't know, the firstthing that came to mind on your
ass is, like I said earlier, andthis is probably the most common
advice you hear. But just likejust get going, like just just
start. I don't know, like ifmost people are perfectionist by

(51:44):
nature, or I think the hardestthing to do is starting. And so
I think, again, that's the mostcliche advice, and I want to
give something better, because Ifeel like there is. But I think
it's also still underutilized.
Like I felt, I still thinkpeople don't live that as much
as they should. So yeah, I'd sayjust just frickin starting, you
know?

Trevor (52:02):
Well, it's not even just getting started, like, yes,
like, I think that's supercliche. But you could also like,
I feel like, you could also takethat and say, you know, for
people who are already starting,who are already successful, who
are, you know, or I know, rightnow, there's a lot of brands who
have found a lot of success. Butthe last couple years have been
really challenging in the Ecommerce space. So it's like you
can implement that mentality,even though you're still

(52:25):
successful. If you're seeinglike, something happened, where
your your Downward where yourTrend is maybe either flat or
more downward. Just do somethingdifferent, start something new,
try something different. Take adifferent angle. And you can use
that same kind of like, just getstarted, just get go kind of
mentality. And I think

Rigden (52:45):
every every brand, if there is someone who's already
rolling in, they have a team orwhatever, even if it's just
themselves. Like, I think everyperson who's running something
in some way has 15 things on theback burner that they've been I
do like where it's like, I gottaget started on this, but I just
never had the time or it's like,almost like it's like, I still
fear failure at times, like Icatch myself being like, like,

(53:07):
even now it's like, I'm, likescared that like we're gonna
grow and it's just gonna falland crash down. So I'm like,
man, like, I don't want like,maybe I shouldn't grow at all.
Yeah, it sounds I neverunderstood when people said
that, like, this sounds like thestupidest thing in the world.
But it's like, I catch myself attimes all the time. But I catch
myself at times having thatfear. And so but I think
everyone's got something in thebackburner, where it's like,

(53:28):
whether whether it's fear that'spreventing them from starting
it, or it's just like too manythings going on? Yeah, I think
just just like, picking one ofthose things that you feel has
the most upside and just rollingwith it. I can use that advice.
Now. Just the things we knowwill move the needle. Yeah.
Apple watch stuff was one ofthem. Yeah, we just we had this

(53:48):
idea. And we kept pushing itoff. And we defined I just
started, like, didn't reallyknow where to go, but we just
started with it. Whatever.
Whatever resources we had. Iknow we're gonna we're never
gonna regret it because we'regonna get them launched sooner
than later. A lot of people alot of times people just never
do it, obviously, as we know,but yeah,

Mark (54:03):
love it. Yeah, people. I think what you're saying to spot
on that was like if you just getgoing but there's there are
fears rooted in that for a lotof people and I don't think it's
perfectionism for most people. Ithink that certainly is in
there. And maybe it's peoplewrap up their fears as
perfectionism but a lot ofpeople are just scared of
success. Yeah, and for failure.
It's really they're eitherscared of success or fears but

(54:25):
it's really Yeah, but yeah, it'sreal. And guess what, like all
of us are because guess if youhave more success, you have more
attention or you might have moreopportunity to fail. Yeah,
right. So if you the higher youclimb the ladder the fall, the
farther you can fall. Yeah. AndI know it sounds weird, but
everyone goes through thosefears. So if you do have those

(54:45):
fears in your life, just realizethat the people up further along
than you also have those fears.

Trevor (54:53):
The other thing that's cool about that, or the other
thought that I want to tie intothis like fear versus success
versus just now not starting asI remember, I remember when we
had our first kid, you know,it's like, That was scary. Like,
that was a scary thing to have akid, right? And then, you know,
like, having a second kidthinking, oh my gosh, my life is

(55:15):
gonna be so different. And, andit was like it was. But I was
already so used to be a parentthat it just like, integrated
easy. And then I had a third kidand I was like, crap, now we're
outnumbered. How am I going todo this? And then he figured it
out. Yeah. And so now it'sfunny, I get people who have
either never had kids, orthey're having a second kid, and
they're like, Hey, what should Iexpect? Like, which was gonna be

(55:38):
and it's like, I think peopleforget that we are hardwired to
just figure stuff out. So like,if the success comes and you're
like, how am I going to handlethis? Or what am I going to have
more work? I'm gonna, you know,my marriage or what it's like,
worry about those were height.
Yeah, like your heart. Like,yes. Be careful in life, you
know, and think about it andprocess things. We're not just

(55:58):
saying like, just willy nilly,like, if you're on top of a
cliff, and you want to Cliffjump, and you there's water
underneath, and you don't knowif it's four feet deep or 40.
We're not saying jump, but youknow, do some assessing as much
as you can. But I think we justlike don't give ourselves enough
credit to understand that, like,humans are built to figure
things out. And no matter whatsituation you put yourself in,

(56:19):
whether it is a failure or asuccess, like you're going to
figure it out, you know? Yeah.
And that's just that's just howwe're hardwired. Yeah, you know,

Rigden (56:30):
last little thing. And as, I think figuring it out, we
hear that all the time, too, butI think most people aren't.
Like, they don't think that theycan. Yeah. And also people
underestimate, like, peoplethink that there's a path,
especially when starting out, Ithink I kind of thought there
was you know, but like, at theend of the day, it's literally
just figuring stuff out as yougo. And so, yeah, it's the time

(56:53):
that like, I agree. 100% justjust figuring stuff out is the
name of the game,

Trevor (56:58):
I think. Just do it.
Nike knew it with that, youknow, Phil Knight man he knew he
knew it was goodness. Alright.
Regan, where can people find youmore?

Rigden (57:08):
So Instagram Ebor company and then tick tock
Evoko. Website. You've workedcompany.com Nice, dude.

Trevor (57:16):
What about you? You my personal

Rigden (57:19):
is rigged nips? I'll start building stuff. I'll
become a Trevor Crump. Yeah,there. Yeah. Come on, Rick,
next.

Trevor (57:28):
I love it. All right.
Did we appreciate it? Thank youso much. And thank you for all
the listeners who join us everysingle Tuesday. We appreciate
it. We love you guys. And we'llsee you next week. Thank you so
much for listening to theunstoppable marketer podcasts.
Please go rate and subscribe thepodcast whether it's good or
bad. We want to hear from you.

(57:49):
Because we always want to makethis podcast better. If you want
to get in touch with me or giveme any direct feedback. Please
go follow me and get in touchwith me. I am at the Trevor
Crump on both Instagram andTiktok thank you and we will see
you next week.