October 29, 2024 • 43 mins
Ever wondered how skyrocketing CPMs on Meta's platform could reshape your marketing strategies? Join us as Mark Goldhart and I dissect the nuances of today's advertising climate amid the chaos of an election year and the looming Black Friday rush. Learn how fluctuating costs and declining organic reach are rewriting the rules of engagement in the digital ad space. We'll dive into why metrics like cost per click and conversion rates are more telling than ever, providing insights to help you navigate these turbulent times.
In our quest to decode effective brand communication, we explore innovative strategies to enhance your market presence. As consumer expectations evolve, so must your messaging. Discover the key messages that truly resonate and the core principles that can bolster your brand's authenticity and effectiveness. We uncover practical advice for marketers eager to thrive, offering strategies that connect meaningfully with audiences in a rapidly shifting landscape. Whether you're grappling with the rising costs of advertising on Meta or seeking to refine your brand's voice, this episode promises valuable insights that can propel your marketing efforts forward.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
For the foreseeable future, meta is always going to
be the best paid advertisingplatform, right Like?
We have one client right nowwho that's all they're doing is
just Meta, and it's like somedays you crush it.
And then yesterday, all of asudden, their sales were
literally cut in half.
Today, guess what?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's back up.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's back up, but that's just like the name of the
game.
Nothing will change unless youdo things different.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast With me, as
always, Mark Goldhart.
Mark Goldhart, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm great.
How are you Wonderful?
We just got back from a longtrip.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, we were just in Argentina.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Argentina.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, visiting the team.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Visiting some of the teamiting some of the team.
Some of the team Went to a game.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, we went and saw Team Argentina play Bolivia in
a World Cup qualifier.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That was incredible and it was one of the coolest
experiences of my life.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Very different from an American sporting event.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Being at like a national team game.
They're playing Bolivia Messi,the greatest of all time scores
a hat trick, yeah.
It was a historic game.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, like there couldn't have been a better
outcome of a game that we wentto.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, no one was mad, everyone was just happy.
Yeah, it was phenomenal uhelection season.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
What are we?
T minus 20 days, 23 days Idon't know.
No, I wouldn't say that it'sprobably like 18 days so guess
what?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
your ads will start working again.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Congratulations and then they won't.
Ads will start working againCongratulations and then they
won't, because Black Friday willhit and then they will.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
They will yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
No, your ads will work.
They're working now.
They'll just be pretty.
Yeah, they are working now.
But if you're wondering whythey're not working as good Is
that fair.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
That's fair Since summer.
Well, first, first of all,let's just talk about last year.
Non-election year, yes, 2023.
The average from what we havegathered, all the data we've
gathered from 100 plus accounts,it's the average cpm crease
last year from january till nowyep in 2023.
(02:24):
So january to november was onlyabout like 10 to 20 yes, which
is natural yeah, especiallygoing into q4, because q4 is
generally and november shoots upeven more.
But like from now, from januaryuntil end of october this year,
cpms have just been higher thanlast year in general.
(02:45):
So like we've seen about a 50%increase in CPMs.
There's a lot of reasons forthat.
Like we could talk about ASCplus campaigns and there's kind
of been a skew for retargetingand whatever, but nonetheless on
average it's been higher.
But what's crazy is your CPMhas gone from January till now.
(03:06):
This year the rise has been100%.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Crazy, and from your summer season it's gone up 30%
till now, so we're talking June,July, August.
Last year it had only gone up10% from summer season.
So, yes, like the CPM cost,just the cost of placing your
ads has gone up substantially.
(03:33):
Some may argue that targetinghas gotten better.
Sure, and so CPMs do not matter.
We know that some people liketo make that argument.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But nonetheless, it's just obvious that it is harder
totally yeah, you could.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, I mean you could go and jump in, look to
see it.
Okay, to really understand howtargeting has gotten better.
You would just go look at likeyour CPCs to write have those
increased?
And they have.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And your conversion rates and your conversion rate.
So, yes, you might be gettingsomething reported on Meta that
says, oh, you're doing just asgood as last year.
It might not feel like it, butif your cost per clicks have
gone up, if you're spending thesame amount as last year but
your cost per clicks have goneup, but your conversion rates
haven't gone up, then You'regetting less clicks.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You're getting less sales theory.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Then either your paid channel has gotten a lot better
and your organic traffic hasgotten a lot worse, which guess?
What has happened in a lot ofaccounts.
Yeah, organic to reach.
Everyone here knows like yourorganic reach is just not even
what it used to be oh most arefeeling that yes, most people
are for sure.
So we're not saying ads aren'tworking.
It's just that the, the entireenvironment and ecosystem has
(04:48):
has shifted yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So what do you tell?
What do you tell brands?
What do I tell brands?
What do you?
What do we tell?
What do we tell people?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
well, it's a little bit more nuanced than this, but
we have generally advised peopleto spend and in fact it's right
now is one of the better timesto spend more, irregardless of
election season.
I'm not saying it's harder nowbecause of election and cpms.
There's just more cost to be inthe system.
(05:23):
But, um, you, your your bestcohorts.
So your august I mean even julysort of, but july, august,
september, october, like those,are your best cohorts of the
year yep and what he.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
What he means by that is cohorts, are the people who
buy within a certain month as afirst-time customer.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And then come back and buy again.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And then how likely are those people to come back
and buy again?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And they're your best because they all come back for
Black Friday.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and October, notoriously, is the best of
those.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, so they buy at full price in October, generally
right, or maybe a slight 10%email discount, whatever Sure,
but their chance of returning isreally really high,
significantly higher than mostmonths.
So generally, if you look atyour numbers, you'll figure out
that it's worth paying quite abit more to acquire someone in
October, because they will comeback and buy off of your emails
(06:21):
in November.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, the promotions and things that are going to
happen, especially if you have anow listen, if you've got a
product that sucks and you arethen it just sucks to suck.
Yeah, and you are just a firsttime customer acquisition
machine.
Um then, maybe, no, maybe nowis not the best time to spend,
(06:44):
true true, yeah, like if you.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
If you have a problem solution product and you're a
one-trick pony, then Unless youhave a good angle with gifting
that product.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Sure, maybe not but for the most part, now is a
great time.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yes, and in fact we have some clients.
This might be a hot take Rollthe drums, I don't know, maybe
it doesn't.
We do have some clients wherewe spend far more money in
October and September than we doin November.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Very true, not a hot take.
Because, the cost ofacquisition for these certain
customers is just not.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
And that cohort has always traditionally just sucked
like they don't come back.
They just come for a discount.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
The new, the first timers in november yeah, they
end up losing more profitabilityin november versus and yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So november is a crazy good, profitable month for
them.
Yes, because we don't reallyfocus a ton on acquisition.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It's more of hey, yes , we will acquire customers, but
we're not trying to push theboundaries so much that we're
losing money on first purchaseyep, all the more reason to
marry finance to marketing, tounderstand things like that,
right, because most people willjust look like oh my gosh, my we
(08:04):
did so much revenue my cost peracquisition went down, but
you're like well.
Also, you had 30 or 40 percentless margins due to your
discount and those people willnever come back, and so you
didn't make any profits on thefirst time customer and you're
not going to make any moreprofits yeah, that's an
interesting equation thatsometimes you don't take into
consideration is that when youdiscount right, like when you
(08:27):
have a 40 discount, that onlyaffects your profitability.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, like your margin doesn't get better, like
the cost of your good is thecost of your good right, yeah,
yeah, you're not getting, yeah,you're not getting like so it's
only cutting into your profitsand and there are sometimes
unless you're doing a ton morevolume like those.
Deep discounts don't necessarilybenefit you.
Now we can talk about blackfriday if we want, but yes, you
(08:57):
should generally be doingdiscounts because people expect
it.
Now, um, however, I think somepeople just don't take that into
consideration.
So why that matters is yourcost per acquisition If it goes
down.
If it's 60 bucks and it goesdown to 30 bucks, that's great,
but you're actually not likethat.
(09:18):
40% discount or 30% discount isall into your profit margin.
Yeah, so you might not bemaking nearly as much money as
you think on that customer.
Yeah, or any money at all, yeah.
The hope is that the volume yes,and those customers tend not to
come back very well fromNovember.
(09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So spend in October.
October is a good time to spend.
I know it doesn't look like itis, but generally it is.
And if you want to know foryour sake if this is true for
you and you're a Shopify brand,Granted, october will be over
when you guys listen to this.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So yeah, it's true, it's true.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
But tough titty, said the kitty, that's right.
Tough titty, said the kitty.
I hate that, my that saying Inever heard that until I married
into my family really yeah,yeah, it's kind of gross and I
say it all the time now to mykids because I just think it's
funny um, but if you want tolook at that, just go into.
Your shopify has a cohortanalysis.
It's a new, it's not that new.
What?
(10:19):
18 months, maybe a tile inthere that has a cohort analysis
.
You can jump in.
You can sort it by all sorts ofthings.
You can sort it by returningcustomers.
You can sort it by totalrevenue.
Go to total sales.
Look at the last year.
See what happened last Octoberand see how many of those people
who bought in October came backand bought in November.
(10:41):
The darker of the blue or purple, depending on it's purple
violet, if you will I thoughtblue like a purpley blue my
indigo yeah nonetheless, it's ablue or purple, we digress.
(11:02):
So what's a couple things thatare happening right now.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So, yes, sucks to be advertising right now.
It's election season, thingsare costlier.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And things.
Just we didn't say this thingsare also if you're in a swing
state too.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh, it's even worse in swing states.
Yes, we pulled those numbersalso if you're in a swing state
too.
Oh, it's even worse in swingstates.
Yes, we pulled so like 35percent on average has gone up
from the summer.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
It's like 55 it's gone up in swing state.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Add like an extra 20 points to your state 120 thank
you politics, thank you politicsluckily most people.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
When you think of the swing states they are generally
like if you were to go look atuh brands like audience or
geographical analysis.
Those states generally don'ttend to be most tense.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah brands, biggest heavier hitters well, depends on
what you're running, but yes,true if you're running broad.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Generally speaking, broad will favor the highest
population states, which arejust going to be california,
texas, florida and new york yeah, which are not swing states
anymore yeah, but even like your, uh, like highest conversion
converting rating states,sometimes yeah, oftentimes are
not those places, butnonetheless, were you going to
(12:29):
say something before I navigatedtopics Hot topics Hot topics,
hot topics.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
No, just that.
Yeah, it's hard.
All I was going to say was youmight think it's all because
CPMs have gone up, but we haveactually seen meta is performing
really well and totally a lotof this has to do with, like,
organic shrinking.
So it's not uncommon to seebrands organic reach shrinking
(13:00):
this year and over the last twobrands that used to be able to
count on X amount of reach andengagement and likes.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, it's just, the game has changed which doesn't
mean you shouldn't fight to getthat back.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Maybe, in my opinion.
Well, I think you must changewhat you view as success.
Sure, I think a lot of brandsare still stuck on the idea that
, like, you're going to post apicture and you're going to get
X amount of engagement or reachfrom that picture, from your
followers, which just doesn'thappen.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Not only do you have to change the definitions is
part of it.
Like live puts you right infront of the stories, like
you're front and center.
So you don't have to hope thatsomebody sees that post.
Like if you go live for an hour, you'll be one of the first
icons that people see.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, in the story section.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah.
So I think there's a differentplay now, where in the past it
was post and you'll reach allyour followers plus more.
Yeah, or do the giveaways andthen you know, expand your reach
where now it's.
If you want reach, you're goingreels and tiktok.
If you want followers tointeract, you're going regular
(14:26):
posts and stories and lives yeah, so you got to think about,
like current audiencecultivation and new audience
cultivation yeah, and not tomention.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think I mean obviously it's been reels and
tiktok from a reach perspective,but, like a lot of people's,
reels and tiktok that used toget good reach are no longer
getting good reach.
So the other caveat to thatfrom the organic perspective is
you just have to do differentthings.
Abt always be testing.
(15:07):
Do you know what marketingchannel introduced them to you?
Do you know what motivated themto buy?
Do you know what your MPS scoreis, if people actually like and
love your products?
If you don't know the answersto some of those questions or
any other questions you mighthave for your customers, you
need to start usingpost-purchase surveys.
Bestie is the onlypost-purchase survey provider
(15:27):
that utilizes AI to not onlyhelp you craft your questions,
but also takes the insights thatyour customers give you and
creates actionable insights andsteps for you to make as a
business to help grow and scaleyour company.
Today, bestie just lowered theirprices so you can be serving
your customers for as low as $39a month.
(15:49):
And not only that.
They have a 14 day free trialin the app store, so go check
them out right now.
Test a 14 day free trial in theapp store, so go check them out
right now.
Test the 14 day free trial.
If you happen to pay the $39 amonth, you are not going to lose
out on much and you are onlygoing to be able to gather more
data around your customers tohelp grow and scale your
businesses.
We love Bestie and we use itfor every single brand we work
(16:10):
with.
Go check them out today atbestieai.
You have to be, we have, youhave to be doing different
things, and I that's kind ofwhere I want this, this topic.
I think it's a good segue intowell, why don't you just talk
about you?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Me.
Yeah, you just went throughthis.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Oh, are you talking about my content?
Yeah, yeah, okay, sure, I cantalk, so, okay.
So I started creating contentin 2019 or 2020 and my content
at the time, even though videowas becoming popular, I was
creating carousels and they werealmost like information guides,
(16:58):
right, you know?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
so like very high, like five steps to get better
engagement.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, high value like hey, here are five ways you can
get your CPM low.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I forgot about carousels.
Those were so big back then.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, and I just used Canva and it crushed it.
Yeah, like absolutely crushedit High value, lots of shares,
lots of saves, until it didn't.
And then all of a sudden itdidn't.
And the reason why it didn't isbecause Reels came about, and
so then I started to,essentially, then I took my
carousels and just turned theminto talking head, you know.
(17:34):
So I would still say, hey, hereare five ways, but it'd be a
camera like this hey, five waysto lower your CPM, number one,
number two.
So I essentially did thecontent didn't change, it was
just the format that changed tovideo.
And then that absolutelycrushed it until it didn't.
And then I started doing likestory lessons over B-roll,
(18:05):
voiceover-y stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And that crushed it.
Until it didn't Until it didn't, and then podcast clips until
it didn't, and that is just thename I have been through so what
is that?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
hell and carousels, carousels, just kind of
repurposed carousel format, butwith reels, yep, and then I did
kind of voiceover v-roll thatwas valuable yeah and then I did
voiceover b-roll.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That was like just lifestyle stories.
Yeah, and then I did podcastclips.
Kind of podcast clips was kindof between there like throughout
that.
That worked really well and now, unless you're saying something
insane, a podcast clip doesn'treally do anything, mainly
because this podcast, as big asit is, it's not Right.
So, like a Jay Shetty.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
But to be fair, I see far.
I see less and less and lesspodcast clips.
Well, yeah, I think Like eventhe comedians, like you used to
see those comedians pop up inyour feed.
It seemed like one every threescrolls was going to be a
podcast from a comedian, and nowI don't tend to see those very
often.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So what, what did you count?
Five or six formats?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
That's five so far.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Five formats of high growth.
And then the last 18 months forme has been really rough.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Dry.
Just very dry 40 years in thedesert.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And I will admit my dedication and trying has been
less I started shifting somemore of my dedication from a
content creation to like awritten LinkedIn style and that
did great and has done just fine, which did good until Sometimes
doesn't?
It's kind of plateaued, yeah, sonow it's like, okay cool, what
(19:48):
do we do?
Yeah, yeah.
So now it's like, okay cool,what do we do?
And so now what I'm doing isI'm going back to very high
value and I'm breaking whatbusinesses and brands are doing
down, why it's good or why it'sbad.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Which, all of a sudden, you've seen a growth
Like a 10x increase in reach andengagement yeah, and in many
times much bigger than that in acouple times.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So we will see.
But the point is, you can.
Meta works it always.
I shouldn't say always, but forthe foreseeable future, meta is
always going to be the bestpaid advertising platform.
However, what is going tohappen is when it's the only
(20:40):
thing you're dedicated to, theonly thing you're putting
attention to, the only thingthat's driving traffic.
You are just going to bebeholden to bad days and bad
weeks and potentially bad monthsdue to whatever's happening in
the world macroeconomically, oreven what's happening just
internally at meta.
You're just, when you don'thave anything else, driving
(21:02):
distribution.
You're just at that mercy,right like.
We have one client right nowwho that's all they're doing is
just meta and it's like somedays you crush it and then
yesterday else and their saleswere literally cut in half.
You go into meta and you lookand nothing changed Today.
Guess what?
it's back up it's back up, butfor whatever reason, their
(21:22):
conversion rate went from 1.8percent to 0.8 percent.
Yeah, dude, so just axed, spenthours looking to see what's
going on, but that's just likethe name of the game, right.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, it is the name of the game when you're paying
to play.
But you know, I know we hash onthis a lot, but I think the
overall theme here is as organic.
It gets smaller and you becomemore dependent on paid, which
guess what?
If you're growing fast, that'sjust going to happen anyways.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Of course yes.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Eventually, most of your acquisition is coming from
paid you can spend more moneythan you can.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Test and find new ways to hit organic virality or
better distribution you're justhitting like economies of scale
at that point.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So yeah, exactly cost per acquisition becomes less of
a concern yes um, but if youwant to help yourself, just know
a lot of people give up on thatlike they see it shrinking and
they just keep doing the samething and hoping things will
change.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
but nothing changes If nothing changes and it's not
going to guys like I've donehashtag Theo Vaughn.
Yeah, I've done it.
I've done it so long now thatit just doesn't work.
So speed, so change.
Let's talk.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It's good to hear that.
I just want to point that outbecause you did five.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You've gone through like five content strategy
changes in four and a half years?
Yeah, and or four years and andthere was like an 18 month
drought of like nothing workedto.
You know, I probably should bethrough seven because I didn't
change and adapt, but so, sowe're not saying it's easy, so
speaking of difference, we'rejust saying it's easy.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
So, speaking of difference, we're just saying
it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
There's a couple of things that are trending right
now that I think are interestingto call out of this exact topic
, like nothing will changeunless you do things different,
right?
And when you look likeeverybody else and when you act
like everybody else're gonnablend in like everybody else,
right?
And so one thing that I thoughtwas really cool, that's been
(23:26):
trending really since thebeginning of the month or kind
of first week of the month, waswendy's announced a
collaboration with spongebobsquarepants and they created the
wendy's crappy patty.
And the reason why I think thisis really cool is, for those of
you who don't know this,wendy's on the burger fast food
(23:46):
chain is always number three.
It never hasn't been numberthree or lower than the two you
could probably you would.
I think anyone can guessMcDonald's number one by a long
shot.
Burger King is number two andthen it's Wendy's.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, Wendy's is the redheaded stepchild, literally.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Literally.
Yeah, exactly, but Wendy's onthe fast food chain.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I can say that I married a redhead, so I can make
the jokes.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Number seven I got a couple redheads in my family,
sister and boss.
So the reason why, if you goback and look at the last eight
years of Google Trends, wendy'shas never once in Google Trends
been searched more than BurgerKing and McDonald's.
Maybe a couple times withBurger King, okay, but never
with McDonald's Ever.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Like McDonald's, is light years.
Wait, when did they do thisKrabby Patty?
On the 8th, on the 8th of thismonth.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
If you look at the 8th and 9th, those are the first
two days that they have ahigher search volume than
mcdonald's.
But it's, it just went.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It exploded because spongebob and then trump had to
go work at mcdonald's whichwe'll talk about in here in a
second too spongebob wendy's.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, they just always get outshined well, that
that's what's really funny isyou see, mcdon McDonald's?
The moment Trump does that justskyrockets in trend, so funny.
So anyways, back to Wendy'shere.
Okay, and the Krabby Patty.
They take something wildlynostalgic and they do something
very, very different thanWendy's is used to doing and
they do a collaboration, and soit gets every millennial what
(25:18):
Like anyone who is probably 35.
I watch SpongeBob, but onlybecause my little brother did,
and if he had the TV.
I'd watch it with him, but thatwas never the show I picked to
be on.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
You're just wanting Power Rangers, huh.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I'm more of a Rugrats guy.
You know Tommy Pickles, youdidn't know you were.
Yeah, you always say you weretoo poor for cable never had
cable yeah, sorry, I guess I wasjust you know just living high
life.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I guess I was just better than you did.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
You have a tv in your room, no, I did when I was in
high school, but it's because Ibought it with my own money.
Oh yeah, okay, so anyways,nostalgia.
Nostalgia sells even someonelike me who has not eaten at
wendy's in 15 years, went andbought one with my own money.
Oh yeah, okay.
So anyways, nostalgia,nostalgia sells.
Even someone like me who hasnot eaten at Wendy's in 15 years
went and bought one.
So they're selling to at least.
Did you buy one?
No, I didn't.
He will.
He's going to Grayson willWendy's is just not good though.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, there's a reason why it's on the on the
lower end of the list.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
So great job to wendy's because they just did
something different and it gotnot only google search term but
if you go to tiktok and you justtype in wendy's patty, like
crabby patty, collaboration,millions and millions of views
it's.
It's very similar to the whole,uh, secret life of mormon
wife's thing that we talkedabout, just like hulu was really
good at just finding somethingthat that was already already
you know, like they just knewwas gonna trend and boom.
(26:44):
It's kind of like when grit was.
It was the last year thatMcDonald's did grimace, the
grimace challenge.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, they did very, very similar uptick and lifts on
tick-tock tick-tock, you knowthey does where the the main
trend was happening, I think,yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like
you would take you to eat aShake and you would die.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Essentially, yeah, and people were creating these
skits around it and it just blewup and Gourmet Shakes were
crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Which you would think would make it less popular.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
but yeah, so doing different things is really huge.
Going into Donald Trump rightJust because it's election
season.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, we got to bring back our analysis of the
campaigns.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, so this is like going into the analysis of the
campaign.
So we talked a lot about likeokay, how has the game shifted?
Yeah, there's this like okay,kamala has taken the more
traditional route.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
You know kamala kamala, sorry.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Kamala has taken the more traditional route, which
has been lots of tvadvertisements raise more money.
She's outspending him 3 to 1 intraditional advertising the
only thing she's donedifferently is she's gone the
celebrity route right, which islike not quite new age.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I don't think that's new age at all, I just think.
Well, I mean celebrities, Ithink used to be maybe a little
less political, yes, butcelebrities have always rubbed
shoulders with politicians, so Idon't know if that's, I totally
agree I would say, that's stilltraditional.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm gonna give her that as new age.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I'm gonna give it to her.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think she's running a very traditional campaign.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I think she is too, but that's the little caveat I'm
gonna give her.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
That's fine, but celebrity endorsements I'm
pretty sure have existed for along time.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
They have 100%, but the landscape of how celebrities
distribute their content isdifferent Very much, yeah, I
mean I guess they have directaudiences and they don't really
rely on publications in thatsense.
Exactly.
That's why I'm going to giveher New Age.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Okay, trump has been.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
We'll agree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
And Kamala has done.
She did a Call Her Daddypodcast.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
She did do one podcast appearance, she did one
New.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Age podcast appearance.
I think she did.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
No, radio shows really aren't New.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Age no, no, no Negative.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Not going gonna give her that one, so nonetheless
heavy traditional yes and she'sout spending three to one yes,
right, trump has been doing verynew age stunts trolling,
because I think trolling is verynew age too.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right, like these, influencers are always trolling
each other well, trolling is bigbecause other people talk about
it yes, yes, in the new ageform yes.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So, so the whole reason why he was at McDonald's
for those who don't know isbecause Kamala said she worked
at McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Came out that she never had Well there's.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What's come out is McDonald's doesn't have any
employment records from the 80s,right, she has a friend that
says she worked there, got it,that's so people are saying so
she's never.
It hasn't come out that shequote didn't.
It's just, there's no actualevidence, I guess evidence of it
outside of anecdotal yes and sotrump has been saying that she
(29:55):
hasn't and so part of that troll, and also like trump has always
been a big mcdonald's guyremember that funny, hilarious
picture of him like with all themcdonald's bags in the white
house.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he loves it soas a troll, it appears to be a
troll he went and worked atmcdonald's on kamala's birthday
(30:16):
yes which many people don't knowit was was Kamala's birthday.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And he, like, wished her a big happy birthday.
That's like blowing up.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Because the whole news everyone just started
melting down about the publicitystunt.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
But what has been the number one talk on both the
left and the right and justsocial media in general?
Right, the left is talkingabout it as what a terrible
political stunt.
How tasteless.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Obviously, there's the partisan takes, and then
you've got the right side.
Who's talking about it as whata terrible political stunt.
How tastes, you know?
Speaker 1 (30:41):
obviously there's the part it takes, and then you got
the right side who's talkingabout it, and this is the
coolest thing.
And then you got the like justthe more new age people who are
talking about it and like canyou believe that trump did this?
Yes, kind of thing, but that'swhere he's winning from a
polling perspective well, so now?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
so now.
So yeah, I think this goes backto our whole argument.
What's going to win yes?
Is it the traditional or is itthe new age?
Like there's still value.
We had Russ on yes and he stillshowcased in the marketing
world.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
How traditional can pack a very heavy punch,
especially from a brandingperspective.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yes, but we had argued on this podcast that the
new age is really just whatmarketing is now.
It's not that traditional, itdoesn't exist, but it doesn't
pull what it used to.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And I think we're starting to see that in the
polling.
You're starting to see frompolymarket odds to swing state
polling, like Nate Silver's Iknow he kind of screwed up in
the last couple of elections andpeople don't like him anymore.
But him and the RCP average nowhave Trump ahead where he was
behind for since their firstdebate.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, by relatively significant margins.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Not just like.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, he was down.
I think it was like 48 to 52 or46 to 54.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And now, what is the poly market on now?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Now it's flipped.
Well, poly market's up andagain that's a betting market.
I don't know how much weightgoes into it, but he's up by 24
points.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Which is insane.
Last time I saw it, and thenthe RCP average.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I think he's now up 53 to 47.
And you guys can fact check meon that.
But nonetheless those trendlines are happening because,
with the new age approach ofTwitter and social media and
doing these trolling events, histeam has figured out how to
dominate headlines withoutspending money.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So they're being outspent?
Three to one, yes.
And now the lesson in here,regardless of your politics, is
you are always going to goagainst competition that can
outspend you.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Always, there's always somebody bigger than you.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Now, I'm not saying you always use the tactics of
the Trump campaign, yeah, butthere's lessons in there for us
to learn as marketers, of how doyou capture attention, how do
you pick fights in the arena todominate headlines or to draw
attention to you, and you can dothat in, obviously, I think,
(33:25):
more tactful ways.
Yeah, you don't have to be meanabout it necessarily, but you
do have to pick enemies inmarketing.
You do have to go out againstyour competitors.
You do have to showcase hey,why are you different?
Right?
So the reason why Trump's sopolarizing is because everyone
knows why he's different.
Yeah, so he plays on that.
(33:45):
His team plays on that.
They're always going aroundtalking about it, yeah.
Now for marketers yeah, you'regoing to go up against much
bigger spenders than you.
Yeah, but a lot of these bigspending companies are stuck in
what we would call as, like, atraditional thing.
And guess what, guys?
I don't know what's going tohappen in the election.
Like, kamala very well may winSure, and I don't think it's
(34:09):
going to be a surprise if shedid At this point.
It's a coin flip.
Yeah, because we're talkingabout, just like, such small
margins of error in voting.
Like we're talking, 10,000 votesmight swing uh swing state one
direction or the other, that oneswing state can swing the
entire election and yeah, andthat one swing state might
decide the whole election, butnonetheless it's just to say,
(34:29):
hey, look, this guy is gettingso much attention all the time.
I'm not saying that it's alwayssavory what he's doing, but as a
marketer and as a as a company,how can you learn from that and
say we might not be able tospend a hundred million dollars
this year, or even a hundredthousand or even a hundred
thousand dollars, but hey, wecan go do like, we can go out in
(34:54):
the wild and film, like rightnow in the election.
Guess what's super hot on TikTOK and on Instagram?
It's like election.
Guess what's super hot ontiktok and on instagram?
It's like.
I see these on from both sidespolitical, of the political
spectrum.
They're doing these like roundtables, not the political
candidates, but like theseinfluencer type people who are,
yeah, like they'll go to collegecampuses or college campuses or
(35:16):
they have like a round tableand they do these debates, or
like they're going around oncampuses asking people who
they're voting for.
Like you can do that with aproduct, right, like how come we
don't see more people going outand saying, hey, this is my
product, this is this product,let's test it out and get some
live reactions.
Yeah, like you can go out intothe wild, get real human
interaction.
Yeah, that's not fake, that'snot.
(35:37):
You know, when we say authentic, we mean it's.
There's not a lot of polisharound it.
It's like it seems like it'sall real and authentic yeah, you
may.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
You may be staging it and curating it to get,
hopefully, the outcome youexpect right, but everything
else is going to be relativelyreal.
Yes, you know the reactions,whatever I mean, if we want to
take an example of somebodydoing this, I just thought of
one outside of like Trump orpolitics.
Have you heard of what's goingon with vital farms, the egg
company?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
they're like the uh no antibiotic chicken, like I'm
sure they are.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I haven't heard, okay , what's happening.
So forgive me because thedetails are going to be lost a
little bit in translation, butthe point I'm going to make is
going to be there.
So apparently there's been someuh, what seems like lobbying
against vital farms as they arescaling and growing and and
putting a dent in the eggindustry.
Big egg um, as not as clean asthey say they are okay, and so
(36:42):
the way vital farms has attackedback is They've said that the
owner is coming out and going onevery single podcast in the
health space and he's exposingwhat, what um, antibiotic free
means and what organic means,and how you can get those, what,
(37:06):
what do you call them?
Seals of approval, and howthey're pretty much garbage.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Like he's coming out and saying I don't know if the
antibiotic one is, but I do knowabout like free range and grass
fed and like how you can yeah,he's like.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
He's essentially saying they're completely
unregulated.
Essentially, all that you haveto do is have like one chicken
that fits the bill and you cansay your whole place is that way
that's mind-blowing.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, there's, I do.
I do know that a lot of thoseseals like you can?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
you can game it so all the people who are calling
him out, calling him out.
He's calling them out by sayingI will film and show you every
one of my chickens.
You do the same.
So he's going out and showinghow they are abiding by what the
law should be not not letter ofthe law loophole exactly, and
(37:58):
he said that I've calledeveryone out and not one person
is willing to do what I've doneBig farm, you know.
And so those are ways you can doit right, like you can like.
That's a really kind of youknow, it's not necessarily
trolling, but it's just this.
It's this way of getting otherpeople to talk about something.
He's turning something that'svery could have could
(38:19):
potentially crush his business,you know.
And he's turning somethingthat's very could potentially
crush his business, you know,and he's never gonna have the
money to outspend be better intosomething without tons of
people are talking about vitalfarms.
Because at first, because we buyvital farms and at first I was
like talking to my wife, I'mlike dude, I don't know if we
should be doing this anymore.
Sounds like it's, but now thatI'm watching I'm like, actually
hold up.
It sounds like this you know,maybe they might be not a
(38:41):
hundred hundred percent, but itsounds like this.
You know, maybe they might benot 100%, but it sounds like
they're much better thaneveryone else.
So there's plenty of ways.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
It doesn't matter whether you're political or
whatever Like.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
There's ways for you to.
You just have to be different.
You have to be willing to begutsy and you have to be willing
to just break the norm and say,oh, I'm not going to have this
image look like the last 10 thatdidn't do anything.
Maybe I'm going to give a hottake.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, just throw.
Throw some things away and trythings different, because the
new cycle is always shifting.
Like that's another lesson tolearn as a company from someone
like Donald Trump is like youwould have thought Donald Trump
would not be around in 20, likeyou know, I mean like how many?
How many stories have therebeen about this guy or how many
things has?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
he done.
Yeah, you'd think that this guyis long gone, yet he's still.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Just like people a lot of people do not care about,
like that 24 hours news cyclebecause it's just on to the next
thing.
Yeah, so when you're trying newthings and this was our advice
to the Kamala campaign too right, if I was advising the Kamala
campaign it's like we gotta, yougotta get out there.
You gotta get away from thesescripted performances.
(39:54):
You just gotta go out and be areal person.
We gotta get some realinteractions, because it doesn't
even if you screw up, itdoesn't matter.
The cycle changes every 24hours.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, and guess what?
Speaker 2 (40:04):
they listen to us because she went, they hurt,
they were their lifetimelisteners of the podcast yeah,
they are.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
They were like oh hey , mark and trevor are really
smart.
Should we talk to alex cooperand get on the caller daddy
podcast?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
get out there even more like that's all you can do
in this age of marketing is themore exposure is always going to
be better, unless you're youknow there's some things that
are going to be good completelycrazy and yeah, there's.
There's obviously a line there,but I don't know what that line
is sometimes yeah I agree, likeremember jake paul.
(40:37):
Like went to that one forestand filmed oh yeah, dead bodies
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
yeah yeah, that was the line.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
It wasn't the line, apparently, because it didn't
really affect him.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Well, I thought it did for a few years.
I don't think it did.
I could be wrong.
I have not done enough research.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
There's a huge up.
I'm not saying to do that.
I think that's pretty bad, yeah, but nonetheless, what I'm
saying is like 24 hour newscycles.
If you're a company, try newthings.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yes, you're going to make some mistakes, but yeah,
and the easiest place to do thatis ads.
Honestly, yeah, great greattesting.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
You don't have to put it on your front page.
Test it in ads, see if you canget some engagement and then
maybe start incorporating thatinto your organic yeah so it.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, I mean good luck, election season is finally
almost over.
We're all excited for it to bedone with if you're listening to
this episode and you're stillnot quite a hundred percent sure
what you're going to do withblack friday, like go back what
four or five episodes and listento our black friday episode.
Still not too late to do someof the things we talked about in
(41:44):
that one Almost though.
Almost, but still not the nextepisode.
Yes, yes, it will be, but don'tworry, no fear, but don't worry
everyone.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Election season's almost over.
I'm telling you it'll be a lotbetter after election season.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Everyone will be happier too, we're all going to
be happier, everyone's going tobe so much happier, Regardless
of the winner there will just bea breath of fresh air that this
is over.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
The finality of it.
Yes, like, let's just yes,especially for marketers,
because, man, these CPMs suck.
Yes, they do, but meta is stillworking.
So don't doubt meta, but it'llbe great when we don't have to
be competing with political ads.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yes, I agree.
Awesome, Okay, everyone.
Thank you guys.
We will see you guys nextTuesday.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Farewell.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(42:59):
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
For the foreseeable future, meta is always going to
be the best paid advertisingplatform, right Like?
We have one client right nowwho that's all they're doing is
just Meta, and it's like somedays you crush it.
And then yesterday, all of asudden, their sales were
literally cut in half.
Today, guess what?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's back up.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's back up, but that's just like the name of the
game.
Nothing will change unless youdo things different.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast With me, as
always, Mark Goldhart.
Mark Goldhart, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm great.
How are you Wonderful?
We just got back from a longtrip.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, we were just in Argentina.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Argentina.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, visiting the team.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Visiting some of the teamiting some of the team.
Some of the team Went to a game.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, we went and saw Team Argentina play Bolivia in
a World Cup qualifier.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That was incredible and it was one of the coolest
experiences of my life.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Very different from an American sporting event.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Being at like a national team game.
They're playing Bolivia Messi,the greatest of all time scores
a hat trick, yeah.
It was a historic game.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, like there couldn't have been a better
outcome of a game that we wentto.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, no one was mad, everyone was just happy.
Yeah, it was phenomenal uhelection season.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
What are we?
T minus 20 days, 23 days Idon't know.
No, I wouldn't say that it'sprobably like 18 days so guess
what?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
your ads will start working again.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Congratulations and then they won't.
Ads will start working againCongratulations and then they
won't, because Black Friday willhit and then they will.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
They will yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
No, your ads will work.
They're working now.
They'll just be pretty.
Yeah, they are working now.
But if you're wondering whythey're not working as good Is
that fair.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
That's fair Since summer.
Well, first, first of all,let's just talk about last year.
Non-election year, yes, 2023.
The average from what we havegathered, all the data we've
gathered from 100 plus accounts,it's the average cpm crease
last year from january till nowyep in 2023.
(02:24):
So january to november was onlyabout like 10 to 20 yes, which
is natural yeah, especiallygoing into q4, because q4 is
generally and november shoots upeven more.
But like from now, from januaryuntil end of october this year,
cpms have just been higher thanlast year in general.
(02:45):
So like we've seen about a 50%increase in CPMs.
There's a lot of reasons forthat.
Like we could talk about ASCplus campaigns and there's kind
of been a skew for retargetingand whatever, but nonetheless on
average it's been higher.
But what's crazy is your CPMhas gone from January till now.
(03:06):
This year the rise has been100%.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Crazy, and from your summer season it's gone up 30%
till now, so we're talking June,July, August.
Last year it had only gone up10% from summer season.
So, yes, like the CPM cost,just the cost of placing your
ads has gone up substantially.
(03:33):
Some may argue that targetinghas gotten better.
Sure, and so CPMs do not matter.
We know that some people liketo make that argument.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But nonetheless, it's just obvious that it is harder
totally yeah, you could.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, I mean you could go and jump in, look to
see it.
Okay, to really understand howtargeting has gotten better.
You would just go look at likeyour CPCs to write have those
increased?
And they have.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And your conversion rates and your conversion rate.
So, yes, you might be gettingsomething reported on Meta that
says, oh, you're doing just asgood as last year.
It might not feel like it, butif your cost per clicks have
gone up, if you're spending thesame amount as last year but
your cost per clicks have goneup, but your conversion rates
haven't gone up, then You'regetting less clicks.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You're getting less sales theory.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Then either your paid channel has gotten a lot better
and your organic traffic hasgotten a lot worse, which guess?
What has happened in a lot ofaccounts.
Yeah, organic to reach.
Everyone here knows like yourorganic reach is just not even
what it used to be oh most arefeeling that yes, most people
are for sure.
So we're not saying ads aren'tworking.
It's just that the, the entireenvironment and ecosystem has
(04:48):
has shifted yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So what do you tell?
What do you tell brands?
What do I tell brands?
What do you?
What do we tell?
What do we tell people?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
well, it's a little bit more nuanced than this, but
we have generally advised peopleto spend and in fact it's right
now is one of the better timesto spend more, irregardless of
election season.
I'm not saying it's harder nowbecause of election and cpms.
There's just more cost to be inthe system.
(05:23):
But, um, you, your your bestcohorts.
So your august I mean even julysort of, but july, august,
september, october, like those,are your best cohorts of the
year yep and what he.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
What he means by that is cohorts, are the people who
buy within a certain month as afirst-time customer.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And then come back and buy again.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And then how likely are those people to come back
and buy again?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And they're your best because they all come back for
Black Friday.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and October, notoriously, is the best of
those.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, so they buy at full price in October, generally
right, or maybe a slight 10%email discount, whatever Sure,
but their chance of returning isreally really high,
significantly higher than mostmonths.
So generally, if you look atyour numbers, you'll figure out
that it's worth paying quite abit more to acquire someone in
October, because they will comeback and buy off of your emails
(06:21):
in November.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, the promotions and things that are going to
happen, especially if you have anow listen, if you've got a
product that sucks and you arethen it just sucks to suck.
Yeah, and you are just a firsttime customer acquisition
machine.
Um then, maybe, no, maybe nowis not the best time to spend,
(06:44):
true true, yeah, like if you.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
If you have a problem solution product and you're a
one-trick pony, then Unless youhave a good angle with gifting
that product.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Sure, maybe not but for the most part, now is a
great time.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yes, and in fact we have some clients.
This might be a hot take Rollthe drums, I don't know, maybe
it doesn't.
We do have some clients wherewe spend far more money in
October and September than we doin November.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Very true, not a hot take.
Because, the cost ofacquisition for these certain
customers is just not.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
And that cohort has always traditionally just sucked
like they don't come back.
They just come for a discount.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
The new, the first timers in november yeah, they
end up losing more profitabilityin november versus and yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So november is a crazy good, profitable month for
them.
Yes, because we don't reallyfocus a ton on acquisition.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It's more of hey, yes , we will acquire customers, but
we're not trying to push theboundaries so much that we're
losing money on first purchaseyep, all the more reason to
marry finance to marketing, tounderstand things like that,
right, because most people willjust look like oh my gosh, my we
(08:04):
did so much revenue my cost peracquisition went down, but
you're like well.
Also, you had 30 or 40 percentless margins due to your
discount and those people willnever come back, and so you
didn't make any profits on thefirst time customer and you're
not going to make any moreprofits yeah, that's an
interesting equation thatsometimes you don't take into
consideration is that when youdiscount right, like when you
(08:27):
have a 40 discount, that onlyaffects your profitability.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, like your margin doesn't get better, like
the cost of your good is thecost of your good right, yeah,
yeah, you're not getting, yeah,you're not getting like so it's
only cutting into your profitsand and there are sometimes
unless you're doing a ton morevolume like those.
Deep discounts don't necessarilybenefit you.
Now we can talk about blackfriday if we want, but yes, you
(08:57):
should generally be doingdiscounts because people expect
it.
Now, um, however, I think somepeople just don't take that into
consideration.
So why that matters is yourcost per acquisition If it goes
down.
If it's 60 bucks and it goesdown to 30 bucks, that's great,
but you're actually not likethat.
(09:18):
40% discount or 30% discount isall into your profit margin.
Yeah, so you might not bemaking nearly as much money as
you think on that customer.
Yeah, or any money at all, yeah.
The hope is that the volume yes,and those customers tend not to
come back very well fromNovember.
(09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So spend in October.
October is a good time to spend.
I know it doesn't look like itis, but generally it is.
And if you want to know foryour sake if this is true for
you and you're a Shopify brand,Granted, october will be over
when you guys listen to this.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So yeah, it's true, it's true.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
But tough titty, said the kitty, that's right.
Tough titty, said the kitty.
I hate that, my that saying Inever heard that until I married
into my family really yeah,yeah, it's kind of gross and I
say it all the time now to mykids because I just think it's
funny um, but if you want tolook at that, just go into.
Your shopify has a cohortanalysis.
It's a new, it's not that new.
What?
(10:19):
18 months, maybe a tile inthere that has a cohort analysis
.
You can jump in.
You can sort it by all sorts ofthings.
You can sort it by returningcustomers.
You can sort it by totalrevenue.
Go to total sales.
Look at the last year.
See what happened last Octoberand see how many of those people
who bought in October came backand bought in November.
(10:41):
The darker of the blue or purple, depending on it's purple
violet, if you will I thoughtblue like a purpley blue my
indigo yeah nonetheless, it's ablue or purple, we digress.
(11:02):
So what's a couple things thatare happening right now.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So, yes, sucks to be advertising right now.
It's election season, thingsare costlier.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And things.
Just we didn't say this thingsare also if you're in a swing
state too.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh, it's even worse in swing states.
Yes, we pulled those numbersalso if you're in a swing state
too.
Oh, it's even worse in swingstates.
Yes, we pulled so like 35percent on average has gone up
from the summer.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
It's like 55 it's gone up in swing state.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Add like an extra 20 points to your state 120 thank
you politics, thank you politicsluckily most people.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
When you think of the swing states they are generally
like if you were to go look atuh brands like audience or
geographical analysis.
Those states generally don'ttend to be most tense.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah brands, biggest heavier hitters well, depends on
what you're running, but yes,true if you're running broad.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Generally speaking, broad will favor the highest
population states, which arejust going to be california,
texas, florida and new york yeah, which are not swing states
anymore yeah, but even like your, uh, like highest conversion
converting rating states,sometimes yeah, oftentimes are
not those places, butnonetheless, were you going to
(12:29):
say something before I navigatedtopics Hot topics Hot topics,
hot topics.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
No, just that.
Yeah, it's hard.
All I was going to say was youmight think it's all because
CPMs have gone up, but we haveactually seen meta is performing
really well and totally a lotof this has to do with, like,
organic shrinking.
So it's not uncommon to seebrands organic reach shrinking
(13:00):
this year and over the last twobrands that used to be able to
count on X amount of reach andengagement and likes.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, it's just, the game has changed which doesn't
mean you shouldn't fight to getthat back.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Maybe, in my opinion.
Well, I think you must changewhat you view as success.
Sure, I think a lot of brandsare still stuck on the idea that
, like, you're going to post apicture and you're going to get
X amount of engagement or reachfrom that picture, from your
followers, which just doesn'thappen.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Not only do you have to change the definitions is
part of it.
Like live puts you right infront of the stories, like
you're front and center.
So you don't have to hope thatsomebody sees that post.
Like if you go live for an hour, you'll be one of the first
icons that people see.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, in the story section.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah.
So I think there's a differentplay now, where in the past it
was post and you'll reach allyour followers plus more.
Yeah, or do the giveaways andthen you know, expand your reach
where now it's.
If you want reach, you're goingreels and tiktok.
If you want followers tointeract, you're going regular
(14:26):
posts and stories and lives yeah, so you got to think about,
like current audiencecultivation and new audience
cultivation yeah, and not tomention.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think I mean obviously it's been reels and
tiktok from a reach perspective,but, like a lot of people's,
reels and tiktok that used toget good reach are no longer
getting good reach.
So the other caveat to thatfrom the organic perspective is
you just have to do differentthings.
Abt always be testing.
(15:07):
Do you know what marketingchannel introduced them to you?
Do you know what motivated themto buy?
Do you know what your MPS scoreis, if people actually like and
love your products?
If you don't know the answersto some of those questions or
any other questions you mighthave for your customers, you
need to start usingpost-purchase surveys.
Bestie is the onlypost-purchase survey provider
(15:27):
that utilizes AI to not onlyhelp you craft your questions,
but also takes the insights thatyour customers give you and
creates actionable insights andsteps for you to make as a
business to help grow and scaleyour company.
Today, bestie just lowered theirprices so you can be serving
your customers for as low as $39a month.
(15:49):
And not only that.
They have a 14 day free trialin the app store, so go check
them out right now.
Test a 14 day free trial in theapp store, so go check them out
right now.
Test the 14 day free trial.
If you happen to pay the $39 amonth, you are not going to lose
out on much and you are onlygoing to be able to gather more
data around your customers tohelp grow and scale your
businesses.
We love Bestie and we use itfor every single brand we work
(16:10):
with.
Go check them out today atbestieai.
You have to be, we have, youhave to be doing different
things, and I that's kind ofwhere I want this, this topic.
I think it's a good segue intowell, why don't you just talk
about you?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Me.
Yeah, you just went throughthis.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Oh, are you talking about my content?
Yeah, yeah, okay, sure, I cantalk, so, okay.
So I started creating contentin 2019 or 2020 and my content
at the time, even though videowas becoming popular, I was
creating carousels and they werealmost like information guides,
(16:58):
right, you know?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
so like very high, like five steps to get better
engagement.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, high value like hey, here are five ways you can
get your CPM low.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I forgot about carousels.
Those were so big back then.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, and I just used Canva and it crushed it.
Yeah, like absolutely crushedit High value, lots of shares,
lots of saves, until it didn't.
And then all of a sudden itdidn't.
And the reason why it didn't isbecause Reels came about, and
so then I started to,essentially, then I took my
carousels and just turned theminto talking head, you know.
(17:34):
So I would still say, hey, hereare five ways, but it'd be a
camera like this hey, five waysto lower your CPM, number one,
number two.
So I essentially did thecontent didn't change, it was
just the format that changed tovideo.
And then that absolutelycrushed it until it didn't.
And then I started doing likestory lessons over B-roll,
(18:05):
voiceover-y stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And that crushed it.
Until it didn't Until it didn't, and then podcast clips until
it didn't, and that is just thename I have been through so what
is that?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
hell and carousels, carousels, just kind of
repurposed carousel format, butwith reels, yep, and then I did
kind of voiceover v-roll thatwas valuable yeah and then I did
voiceover b-roll.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That was like just lifestyle stories.
Yeah, and then I did podcastclips.
Kind of podcast clips was kindof between there like throughout
that.
That worked really well and now, unless you're saying something
insane, a podcast clip doesn'treally do anything, mainly
because this podcast, as big asit is, it's not Right.
So, like a Jay Shetty.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
But to be fair, I see far.
I see less and less and lesspodcast clips.
Well, yeah, I think Like eventhe comedians, like you used to
see those comedians pop up inyour feed.
It seemed like one every threescrolls was going to be a
podcast from a comedian, and nowI don't tend to see those very
often.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So what, what did you count?
Five or six formats?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
That's five so far.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Five formats of high growth.
And then the last 18 months forme has been really rough.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Dry.
Just very dry 40 years in thedesert.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And I will admit my dedication and trying has been
less I started shifting somemore of my dedication from a
content creation to like awritten LinkedIn style and that
did great and has done just fine, which did good until Sometimes
doesn't?
It's kind of plateaued, yeah, sonow it's like, okay cool, what
(19:48):
do we do?
Yeah, yeah.
So now it's like, okay cool,what do we do?
And so now what I'm doing isI'm going back to very high
value and I'm breaking whatbusinesses and brands are doing
down, why it's good or why it'sbad.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Which, all of a sudden, you've seen a growth
Like a 10x increase in reach andengagement yeah, and in many
times much bigger than that in acouple times.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So we will see.
But the point is, you can.
Meta works it always.
I shouldn't say always, but forthe foreseeable future, meta is
always going to be the bestpaid advertising platform.
However, what is going tohappen is when it's the only
(20:40):
thing you're dedicated to, theonly thing you're putting
attention to, the only thingthat's driving traffic.
You are just going to bebeholden to bad days and bad
weeks and potentially bad monthsdue to whatever's happening in
the world macroeconomically, oreven what's happening just
internally at meta.
You're just, when you don'thave anything else, driving
(21:02):
distribution.
You're just at that mercy,right like.
We have one client right nowwho that's all they're doing is
just meta and it's like somedays you crush it and then
yesterday else and their saleswere literally cut in half.
You go into meta and you lookand nothing changed Today.
Guess what?
it's back up it's back up, butfor whatever reason, their
(21:22):
conversion rate went from 1.8percent to 0.8 percent.
Yeah, dude, so just axed, spenthours looking to see what's
going on, but that's just likethe name of the game, right.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, it is the name of the game when you're paying
to play.
But you know, I know we hash onthis a lot, but I think the
overall theme here is as organic.
It gets smaller and you becomemore dependent on paid, which
guess what?
If you're growing fast, that'sjust going to happen anyways.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Of course yes.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Eventually, most of your acquisition is coming from
paid you can spend more moneythan you can.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Test and find new ways to hit organic virality or
better distribution you're justhitting like economies of scale
at that point.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So yeah, exactly cost per acquisition becomes less of
a concern yes um, but if youwant to help yourself, just know
a lot of people give up on thatlike they see it shrinking and
they just keep doing the samething and hoping things will
change.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
but nothing changes If nothing changes and it's not
going to guys like I've donehashtag Theo Vaughn.
Yeah, I've done it.
I've done it so long now thatit just doesn't work.
So speed, so change.
Let's talk.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It's good to hear that.
I just want to point that outbecause you did five.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You've gone through like five content strategy
changes in four and a half years?
Yeah, and or four years and andthere was like an 18 month
drought of like nothing workedto.
You know, I probably should bethrough seven because I didn't
change and adapt, but so, sowe're not saying it's easy, so
speaking of difference, we'rejust saying it's easy.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
So, speaking of difference, we're just saying
it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
There's a couple of things that are trending right
now that I think are interestingto call out of this exact topic
, like nothing will changeunless you do things different,
right?
And when you look likeeverybody else and when you act
like everybody else're gonnablend in like everybody else,
right?
And so one thing that I thoughtwas really cool, that's been
(23:26):
trending really since thebeginning of the month or kind
of first week of the month, waswendy's announced a
collaboration with spongebobsquarepants and they created the
wendy's crappy patty.
And the reason why I think thisis really cool is, for those of
you who don't know this,wendy's on the burger fast food
(23:46):
chain is always number three.
It never hasn't been numberthree or lower than the two you
could probably you would.
I think anyone can guessMcDonald's number one by a long
shot.
Burger King is number two andthen it's Wendy's.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, Wendy's is the redheaded stepchild, literally.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Literally.
Yeah, exactly, but Wendy's onthe fast food chain.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I can say that I married a redhead, so I can make
the jokes.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Number seven I got a couple redheads in my family,
sister and boss.
So the reason why, if you goback and look at the last eight
years of Google Trends, wendy'shas never once in Google Trends
been searched more than BurgerKing and McDonald's.
Maybe a couple times withBurger King, okay, but never
with McDonald's Ever.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Like McDonald's, is light years.
Wait, when did they do thisKrabby Patty?
On the 8th, on the 8th of thismonth.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
If you look at the 8th and 9th, those are the first
two days that they have ahigher search volume than
mcdonald's.
But it's, it just went.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It exploded because spongebob and then trump had to
go work at mcdonald's whichwe'll talk about in here in a
second too spongebob wendy's.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, they just always get outshined well, that
that's what's really funny isyou see, mcdon McDonald's?
The moment Trump does that justskyrockets in trend, so funny.
So anyways, back to Wendy'shere.
Okay, and the Krabby Patty.
They take something wildlynostalgic and they do something
very, very different thanWendy's is used to doing and
they do a collaboration, and soit gets every millennial what
(25:18):
Like anyone who is probably 35.
I watch SpongeBob, but onlybecause my little brother did,
and if he had the TV.
I'd watch it with him, but thatwas never the show I picked to
be on.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
You're just wanting Power Rangers, huh.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I'm more of a Rugrats guy.
You know Tommy Pickles, youdidn't know you were.
Yeah, you always say you weretoo poor for cable never had
cable yeah, sorry, I guess I wasjust you know just living high
life.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I guess I was just better than you did.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
You have a tv in your room, no, I did when I was in
high school, but it's because Ibought it with my own money.
Oh yeah, okay, so anyways,nostalgia.
Nostalgia sells even someonelike me who has not eaten at
wendy's in 15 years, went andbought one with my own money.
Oh yeah, okay.
So anyways, nostalgia,nostalgia sells.
Even someone like me who hasnot eaten at Wendy's in 15 years
went and bought one.
So they're selling to at least.
Did you buy one?
No, I didn't.
He will.
He's going to Grayson willWendy's is just not good though.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Well, there's a reason why it's on the on the
lower end of the list.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
So great job to wendy's because they just did
something different and it gotnot only google search term but
if you go to tiktok and you justtype in wendy's patty, like
crabby patty, collaboration,millions and millions of views
it's.
It's very similar to the whole,uh, secret life of mormon
wife's thing that we talkedabout, just like hulu was really
good at just finding somethingthat that was already already
you know, like they just knewwas gonna trend and boom.
(26:44):
It's kind of like when grit was.
It was the last year thatMcDonald's did grimace, the
grimace challenge.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, they did very, very similar uptick and lifts on
tick-tock tick-tock, you knowthey does where the the main
trend was happening, I think,yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like
you would take you to eat aShake and you would die.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Essentially, yeah, and people were creating these
skits around it and it just blewup and Gourmet Shakes were
crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Which you would think would make it less popular.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
but yeah, so doing different things is really huge.
Going into Donald Trump rightJust because it's election
season.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, we got to bring back our analysis of the
campaigns.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, so this is like going into the analysis of the
campaign.
So we talked a lot about likeokay, how has the game shifted?
Yeah, there's this like okay,kamala has taken the more
traditional route.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
You know kamala kamala, sorry.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Kamala has taken the more traditional route, which
has been lots of tvadvertisements raise more money.
She's outspending him 3 to 1 intraditional advertising the
only thing she's donedifferently is she's gone the
celebrity route right, which islike not quite new age.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I don't think that's new age at all, I just think.
Well, I mean celebrities, Ithink used to be maybe a little
less political, yes, butcelebrities have always rubbed
shoulders with politicians, so Idon't know if that's, I totally
agree I would say, that's stilltraditional.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm gonna give her that as new age.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I'm gonna give it to her.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think she's running a very traditional campaign.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I think she is too, but that's the little caveat I'm
gonna give her.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
That's fine, but celebrity endorsements I'm
pretty sure have existed for along time.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
They have 100%, but the landscape of how celebrities
distribute their content isdifferent Very much, yeah, I
mean I guess they have directaudiences and they don't really
rely on publications in thatsense.
Exactly.
That's why I'm going to giveher New Age.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Okay, trump has been.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
We'll agree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
And Kamala has done.
She did a Call Her Daddypodcast.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
She did do one podcast appearance, she did one
New.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Age podcast appearance.
I think she did.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
No, radio shows really aren't New.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Age no, no, no Negative.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Not going gonna give her that one, so nonetheless
heavy traditional yes and she'sout spending three to one yes,
right, trump has been doing verynew age stunts trolling,
because I think trolling is verynew age too.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right, like these, influencers are always trolling
each other well, trolling is bigbecause other people talk about
it yes, yes, in the new ageform yes.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So, so the whole reason why he was at McDonald's
for those who don't know isbecause Kamala said she worked
at McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Came out that she never had Well there's.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What's come out is McDonald's doesn't have any
employment records from the 80s,right, she has a friend that
says she worked there, got it,that's so people are saying so
she's never.
It hasn't come out that shequote didn't.
It's just, there's no actualevidence, I guess evidence of it
outside of anecdotal yes and sotrump has been saying that she
(29:55):
hasn't and so part of that troll, and also like trump has always
been a big mcdonald's guyremember that funny, hilarious
picture of him like with all themcdonald's bags in the white
house.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he loves it soas a troll, it appears to be a
troll he went and worked atmcdonald's on kamala's birthday
(30:16):
yes which many people don't knowit was was Kamala's birthday.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And he, like, wished her a big happy birthday.
That's like blowing up.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Because the whole news everyone just started
melting down about the publicitystunt.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
But what has been the number one talk on both the
left and the right and justsocial media in general?
Right, the left is talkingabout it as what a terrible
political stunt.
How tasteless.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Obviously, there's the partisan takes, and then
you've got the right side.
Who's talking about it as whata terrible political stunt.
How tastes, you know?
Speaker 1 (30:41):
obviously there's the part it takes, and then you got
the right side who's talkingabout it, and this is the
coolest thing.
And then you got the like justthe more new age people who are
talking about it and like canyou believe that trump did this?
Yes, kind of thing, but that'swhere he's winning from a
polling perspective well, so now?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
so now.
So yeah, I think this goes backto our whole argument.
What's going to win yes?
Is it the traditional or is itthe new age?
Like there's still value.
We had Russ on yes and he stillshowcased in the marketing
world.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
How traditional can pack a very heavy punch,
especially from a brandingperspective.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yes, but we had argued on this podcast that the
new age is really just whatmarketing is now.
It's not that traditional, itdoesn't exist, but it doesn't
pull what it used to.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And I think we're starting to see that in the
polling.
You're starting to see frompolymarket odds to swing state
polling, like Nate Silver's Iknow he kind of screwed up in
the last couple of elections andpeople don't like him anymore.
But him and the RCP average nowhave Trump ahead where he was
behind for since their firstdebate.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, by relatively significant margins.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Not just like.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, he was down.
I think it was like 48 to 52 or46 to 54.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And now, what is the poly market on now?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Now it's flipped.
Well, poly market's up andagain that's a betting market.
I don't know how much weightgoes into it, but he's up by 24
points.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Which is insane.
Last time I saw it, and thenthe RCP average.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I think he's now up 53 to 47.
And you guys can fact check meon that.
But nonetheless those trendlines are happening because,
with the new age approach ofTwitter and social media and
doing these trolling events, histeam has figured out how to
dominate headlines withoutspending money.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So they're being outspent?
Three to one, yes.
And now the lesson in here,regardless of your politics, is
you are always going to goagainst competition that can
outspend you.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Always, there's always somebody bigger than you.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Now, I'm not saying you always use the tactics of
the Trump campaign, yeah, butthere's lessons in there for us
to learn as marketers, of how doyou capture attention, how do
you pick fights in the arena todominate headlines or to draw
attention to you, and you can dothat in, obviously, I think,
(33:25):
more tactful ways.
Yeah, you don't have to be meanabout it necessarily, but you
do have to pick enemies inmarketing.
You do have to go out againstyour competitors.
You do have to showcase hey,why are you different?
Right?
So the reason why Trump's sopolarizing is because everyone
knows why he's different.
Yeah, so he plays on that.
(33:45):
His team plays on that.
They're always going aroundtalking about it, yeah.
Now for marketers yeah, you'regoing to go up against much
bigger spenders than you.
Yeah, but a lot of these bigspending companies are stuck in
what we would call as, like, atraditional thing.
And guess what, guys?
I don't know what's going tohappen in the election.
Like, kamala very well may winSure, and I don't think it's
(34:09):
going to be a surprise if shedid At this point.
It's a coin flip.
Yeah, because we're talkingabout, just like, such small
margins of error in voting.
Like we're talking, 10,000 votesmight swing uh swing state one
direction or the other, that oneswing state can swing the
entire election and yeah, andthat one swing state might
decide the whole election, butnonetheless it's just to say,
(34:29):
hey, look, this guy is gettingso much attention all the time.
I'm not saying that it's alwayssavory what he's doing, but as a
marketer and as a as a company,how can you learn from that and
say we might not be able tospend a hundred million dollars
this year, or even a hundredthousand or even a hundred
thousand dollars, but hey, wecan go do like, we can go out in
(34:54):
the wild and film, like rightnow in the election.
Guess what's super hot on TikTOK and on Instagram?
It's like election.
Guess what's super hot ontiktok and on instagram?
It's like.
I see these on from both sidespolitical, of the political
spectrum.
They're doing these like roundtables, not the political
candidates, but like theseinfluencer type people who are,
yeah, like they'll go to collegecampuses or college campuses or
(35:16):
they have like a round tableand they do these debates, or
like they're going around oncampuses asking people who
they're voting for.
Like you can do that with aproduct, right, like how come we
don't see more people going outand saying, hey, this is my
product, this is this product,let's test it out and get some
live reactions.
Yeah, like you can go out intothe wild, get real human
interaction.
Yeah, that's not fake, that'snot.
(35:37):
You know, when we say authentic, we mean it's.
There's not a lot of polisharound it.
It's like it seems like it'sall real and authentic yeah, you
may.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
You may be staging it and curating it to get,
hopefully, the outcome youexpect right, but everything
else is going to be relativelyreal.
Yes, you know the reactions,whatever I mean, if we want to
take an example of somebodydoing this, I just thought of
one outside of like Trump orpolitics.
Have you heard of what's goingon with vital farms, the egg
company?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
they're like the uh no antibiotic chicken, like I'm
sure they are.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I haven't heard, okay , what's happening.
So forgive me because thedetails are going to be lost a
little bit in translation, butthe point I'm going to make is
going to be there.
So apparently there's been someuh, what seems like lobbying
against vital farms as they arescaling and growing and and
putting a dent in the eggindustry.
Big egg um, as not as clean asthey say they are okay, and so
(36:42):
the way vital farms has attackedback is They've said that the
owner is coming out and going onevery single podcast in the
health space and he's exposingwhat, what um, antibiotic free
means and what organic means,and how you can get those, what,
(37:06):
what do you call them?
Seals of approval, and howthey're pretty much garbage.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Like he's coming out and saying I don't know if the
antibiotic one is, but I do knowabout like free range and grass
fed and like how you can yeah,he's like.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
He's essentially saying they're completely
unregulated.
Essentially, all that you haveto do is have like one chicken
that fits the bill and you cansay your whole place is that way
that's mind-blowing.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, there's, I do.
I do know that a lot of thoseseals like you can?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
you can game it so all the people who are calling
him out, calling him out.
He's calling them out by sayingI will film and show you every
one of my chickens.
You do the same.
So he's going out and showinghow they are abiding by what the
law should be not not letter ofthe law loophole exactly, and
(37:58):
he said that I've calledeveryone out and not one person
is willing to do what I've doneBig farm, you know.
And so those are ways you can doit right, like you can like.
That's a really kind of youknow, it's not necessarily
trolling, but it's just this.
It's this way of getting otherpeople to talk about something.
He's turning something that'svery could have could
(38:19):
potentially crush his business,you know.
And he's turning somethingthat's very could potentially
crush his business, you know,and he's never gonna have the
money to outspend be better intosomething without tons of
people are talking about vitalfarms.
Because at first, because we buyvital farms and at first I was
like talking to my wife, I'mlike dude, I don't know if we
should be doing this anymore.
Sounds like it's, but now thatI'm watching I'm like, actually
hold up.
It sounds like this you know,maybe they might be not a
(38:41):
hundred hundred percent, but itsounds like this.
You know, maybe they might benot 100%, but it sounds like
they're much better thaneveryone else.
So there's plenty of ways.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
It doesn't matter whether you're political or
whatever Like.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
There's ways for you to.
You just have to be different.
You have to be willing to begutsy and you have to be willing
to just break the norm and say,oh, I'm not going to have this
image look like the last 10 thatdidn't do anything.
Maybe I'm going to give a hottake.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, just throw.
Throw some things away and trythings different, because the
new cycle is always shifting.
Like that's another lesson tolearn as a company from someone
like Donald Trump is like youwould have thought Donald Trump
would not be around in 20, likeyou know, I mean like how many?
How many stories have therebeen about this guy or how many
things has?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
he done.
Yeah, you'd think that this guyis long gone, yet he's still.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Just like people a lot of people do not care about,
like that 24 hours news cyclebecause it's just on to the next
thing.
Yeah, so when you're trying newthings and this was our advice
to the Kamala campaign too right, if I was advising the Kamala
campaign it's like we gotta, yougotta get out there.
You gotta get away from thesescripted performances.
(39:54):
You just gotta go out and be areal person.
We gotta get some realinteractions, because it doesn't
even if you screw up, itdoesn't matter.
The cycle changes every 24hours.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, and guess what?
Speaker 2 (40:04):
they listen to us because she went, they hurt,
they were their lifetimelisteners of the podcast yeah,
they are.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
They were like oh hey , mark and trevor are really
smart.
Should we talk to alex cooperand get on the caller daddy
podcast?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
get out there even more like that's all you can do
in this age of marketing is themore exposure is always going to
be better, unless you're youknow there's some things that
are going to be good completelycrazy and yeah, there's.
There's obviously a line there,but I don't know what that line
is sometimes yeah I agree, likeremember jake paul.
(40:37):
Like went to that one forestand filmed oh yeah, dead bodies
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
yeah yeah, that was the line.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
It wasn't the line, apparently, because it didn't
really affect him.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Well, I thought it did for a few years.
I don't think it did.
I could be wrong.
I have not done enough research.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
There's a huge up.
I'm not saying to do that.
I think that's pretty bad, yeah, but nonetheless, what I'm
saying is like 24 hour newscycles.
If you're a company, try newthings.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yes, you're going to make some mistakes, but yeah,
and the easiest place to do thatis ads.
Honestly, yeah, great greattesting.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
You don't have to put it on your front page.
Test it in ads, see if you canget some engagement and then
maybe start incorporating thatinto your organic yeah so it.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, I mean good luck, election season is finally
almost over.
We're all excited for it to bedone with if you're listening to
this episode and you're stillnot quite a hundred percent sure
what you're going to do withblack friday, like go back what
four or five episodes and listento our black friday episode.
Still not too late to do someof the things we talked about in
(41:44):
that one Almost though.
Almost, but still not the nextepisode.
Yes, yes, it will be, but don'tworry, no fear, but don't worry
everyone.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Election season's almost over.
I'm telling you it'll be a lotbetter after election season.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Everyone will be happier too, we're all going to
be happier, everyone's going tobe so much happier, Regardless
of the winner there will just bea breath of fresh air that this
is over.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
The finality of it.
Yes, like, let's just yes,especially for marketers,
because, man, these CPMs suck.
Yes, they do, but meta is stillworking.
So don't doubt meta, but it'llbe great when we don't have to
be competing with political ads.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yes, I agree.
Awesome, Okay, everyone.
Thank you guys.
We will see you guys nextTuesday.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Farewell.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(42:59):
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!