November 5, 2024 • 55 mins
Ever wondered why some video content hooks you instantly, while others pass by unnoticed? We’ve cracked the code on crafting engaging videos by testing different hooks, using quirky observations like our everyday habit of asking questions just for the sake of politeness. From personal updates such as embarking on a multivitamin regimen to brace for colder weather, our conversation naturally shifts towards the festive season, revealing our Halloween plans. While my enthusiasm for Halloween shines through, Mark’s nonchalance adds a hilarious contrast, especially as we recount our plans to transform into characters from "Hocus Pocus"—and yes, we’ve got a fun plot rundown for those not yet bewitched by the film.
Politics and media are in the spotlight as we tackle the election cycle's final phase, spotlighting significant figures like Trump and Kamala Harris. Their interactions, especially with decentralized media outlets like Joe Rogan's podcast, reflect a major shift in how news is consumed. We dissect the symbiotic relationship between new age media and political engagement, including Kamala's rejected attempt to connect with Barstool Sports. This narrative underscores the evolving landscape where Gen Z and millennials opt for platforms like X and TikTok over traditional media, shaping a new era of political discourse.
We lighten the mood with a humorous analysis of Dwayne Wade’s statue unveiling, which inadvertently sparked a marketing lesson due to its amusing lack of resemblance. We liken this process to fishing—where finding the right bait ensures success—and dive into the dynamics of crafting emotional contrasts in advertising. With insights on fear vs. aspiration and the power of social proof, we explore creative ways to engage audiences in a fast-paced media environment.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's literally a thousand ways to skin a cat, as
they say.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Take your winning concept, turn it into video.
If you can't produce a wholevideo, go film some stuff
yourself.
You can go grab stock videos.
There's still ways to test andthen figure out what hooks are
working for your demographic.
Is it showing the pain first?
Is it showing the resolutionfirst?
Is it something that hasnothing to do with either of
those and it's just aninteresting visual?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yep, and either of those, and it's just an
interesting visual.
Yep, and document it, anddocument it.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the unstoppablemarketer podcast with me, as
always, mr mark goldheart.
How are you, sir?
I'm good, good, I'm good, good,good, good, we got, uh, you
know it's funny, we taught I, weI can say this because you know
(00:45):
my little brother, because wewere with Nicholas, we worked
with him.
But every time he calls me.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Jolly old St Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yep, every time he calls me, he always is like hey,
what's going on, man, how areyou Like?
That is always his opening lineand I'll always say doing good,
man, or you know doing this, orwhatever.
How about you?
And he just goes good, good.
So it's like this, like he hasno idea that he does it, but
(01:15):
he's asking as a formality,probably doesn't really care
exactly what I say.
The response is always good,good, so we're going to be over
at the house in 20 minutes, CanI da-da-da-da-da-da?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
you know.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Good good, good, good , good, good, good good.
I don't know if I've ever toldhim that, so if he listens, I
don't know if he listens to thisWell, I did Good.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Good, I did start a multivitamin regimen this week.
It's a good time to do that.
I've never taken vitamins.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
We got snow, we got the weather changing.
That means the sicknesses arecoming.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It snowed today.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I went to go drive over the mountain and I had to
turn around because there wastwo inches of snow on the road.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, you had to turn around.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I did.
Why my tires are.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
A little scary.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, and I didn't want to go down that hill.
Okay, that's fair, that's a big.
It's like I'm going down acanyon hill, you know, yeah,
that's fair, so I flipped around.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Luckily I only made it halfway up for us utahns,
though, two inches is it no,it's not bad.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
If I was in my wife's car, or even if I had like
better tires, I probably wouldtake the tesla and well then,
tesla's, heavy though you gotta,yeah, the tesla's heavy, so the
tesla can handle it, I thinkit'll be fine, yeah um but
multivitamins nice.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So we'll see how I feel.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I've never done vitamins I do vitamins every day
for a while.
I don't know if I noticed thedifference.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
To be honest, I'm 35, so I said mid-30s.
I need to get into a little bitmore of a health routine.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I get less sick.
I do think I recognize that,that I get less sick in the
wintertime.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
But I don't notice anything this summer.
Yeah, I guess we'll find out.
We'll see if I get more energy.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I'm excited for you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
More focused, less sick.
Halloween is this week.
Halloween's this week.
It's one of your favoriteholidays.
It's one of my favoriteholidays.
My probably least favoriteholiday yeah, it's my wife's one
of my wife's least favorite tooyeah, it's just so I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I love everything about it, huge fan I dislike
almost not.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I don't dislike everything, like I'm not, like I
hate halloween, we don't doanything.
There's just so much I don'tlike about it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
There's virtually nothing I don't like about it.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I hate the smells.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I don't like that.
My kids have a ton of candy.
You know the smell of the fakeweb.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I think I understand what you're saying Like that
like plasticky smell fromcostumes.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Or just like makeup, and yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Hate it.
Yeah, that's good from costumesor just like makeup and yeah
Hate it, just hate it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's good.
You know what Kenzie and I were.
We would go to a Halloweenparty.
We were Thackery Binks fromHocus Pocus.
Have you seen Hocus Pocus?
I have not, you've never seenHocus Pocus.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Not even as a child.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
No, we didn't have Disney.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, this doesn't matter to you, but anyone
listening?
We are Thackery Binks.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Hocus Pocus.
Is that lame Disney movie right?
It's the best With like thewitches that are all ugly.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
It's the best of the Halloween shows.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Of course I say that because witches are always ugly,
right, they try to make themugly.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, it's Halloween.
Yeah, it's Halloween Not thatthe actresses are ugly.
If you're listening to this,we're what like a day there's a
redhead one and there's a yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
No, I've never seen it, but I know what you're
talking about, because everyonetalks about it all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, well, I'll show you my costume and then I'll
show you what the characterlooks like.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So when you say Thackeray, he's the main
character.
What is he?
He's a witch.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
He's a.
His sister gets killed by thewitches in the very beginning
and he Did they eat her?
Gets cursed into being a catfor the rest of his life because
he tries to save her.
So I was Thackeray Binks fromthe witches' days, like the
Salem Witch Trial days.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, it starts in the Salem Witch Trials.
Yep, oh, okay and.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Kenzie was Thackeray binks, the cat from present day
who stuck around.
Oh cool, and he can count, hecan talk and he lives forever.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The cat just gotta see the movie oh, so he's a kid,
so he gets turned into cat andhe lives forever yep to protect
that area so that no one bringsthe witches back.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
You gotta watch the show.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
We could spend too much time on it.
So wait, the witches cursed him.
Yeah, the witches cursed him,but he also lives forever.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Cursed him to be a cat, to live forever Not to
protect, but that's what hedecides to dedicate his cat life
to.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Because if somebody, the way the witches come back is
if they light a candle.
They come back A certain candle, the black flame candle, and it
has to be lit by a virgin.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
A virgin yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It's actually a really good movie because of how
funny it is, like it's a kid'smovie but they talk about
virgins a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
They talk about virgin sacrifice.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, virgins they talk about.
They talk about virgin virginsacrifice.
Yeah, it's like those 90.
You know how 90s, 80s, 90 showsthat were more kid shows.
You're like, whoa, there's alot of sexual innuendo,
innuendos here.
Have you gotten to that pointyet watching shows with your
kids yet?
Uh, not really.
Yeah, you, you'll.
You'll get to it at some pointin time where you start to watch
something you're like, oh my Idid not realize.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
True, I did.
I did watch the goofy movie andI was like, as a parent, I'm
like I don't, I'm trying, Idon't know, I don't like this
movie half as much as I did whenI was as a kid.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There's like some innuendos there and there's some
yeah, there's a lot as you like, obviously it obviously it goes
way over the kids' heads, butI'm like oh, I don't.
Shrek has some good ones.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah well, Shrek is just so clever about it all.
Yeah, To me Shrek is they do itpretty, they do it great Well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
All right, let's move forward.
If you're listening to this,you are what.
Are we a day or two away fromthe election?
Uh, no, we are.
Is it election day?
No, it's a week.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Well, I know right now it is, but if they're
listening to it, oh, if they'relistening I don't know when do
we release these mondays?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
no, we at least release these tuesdays then two
days away we're two days awayfrom the election.
Anything, anything, anymarketing election things we
should address, or is right nowjust like the savage, the
savagery of the electionelection.
That's kind of like what it is.
It's like the Hail Marys of theelection, where you know
everyone's like coming out.
Trump is coming at Kamala aslike, hey, you're the dumbest
(07:34):
person on earth, and Kamala iscoming at Trump Like he's Hitler
, like that's kind of the lastminute Hail.
Marys.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah To stay away from the rhetoric of.
Yeah to stay away from therhetoric of nazis and commies
and you know all that.
I don't know if there's reallyanything other than I haven't
seen big trump released apodcast with joe rogan.
Joe rogan, that's right thatgarnished 100 million views.
No, it hasn't.
No, it's like 35 million, right?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
now, I was actually looking at it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Spot.
Check that Grace.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
This is what's crazy.
I got it right here.
This is actually what's kind ofcrazy about that podcast.
It's 35 million views in lessthan 37 million views in three
days, and if you go to JoeRogan's most popular episodes,
it's 50 million 61 million.
Which?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
is Bob Lazar, which is Bob Lazar?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Which is Bob Lazar, and that Jeremy Corbell.
Yeah, and that was five yearsago, so 61 million.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And then let me guess number two.
Let me guess Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Nope, that's now number four.
It used to be number three, butTrump just.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So Bob Lazar is number one.
Oh shoot, who's number twosnowden edward.
Snowden, edward, snowden.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
He's at 38 million so trump, I'm sure, by tomorrow
trump will be.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
He'll be the second most popular okay which is,
which is the only reason whythat's relevant, I think, is we.
You know, we keep talking aboutthe decentralized news network,
I guess, like this new age mediaand it'll be interesting to see
how this plays out Like didTrump reach the audiences that
he was trying to reach whilecompletely not told?
(09:17):
Like he had surrogates ontraditional media.
Jd Vance has made a lot ofappearance on CNN, like on on
cnn and other news outletsyou've had, like the vivek
ramaswami and the vivek, so he'shad surrogates, but trump
himself has pretty much not beenon traditional media, where
kamala has very much been ontraditional media.
She had a town hall recently,she did some other things, so so
(09:39):
what's really interesting isthis is the litmus test I think
to, to know if traditional mediahas kind of faded into a very
obvious second and third place.
Like how do people consumeinformation?
I don't think it's withmillennials.
People just don't watch thenews like our parents did.
(10:01):
Yeah, it's true, boomers usedto sit down at 10, like my
parents, seven or whatever everyday would sit down and watch
the news like our parents did.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, that's true.
Boomers used to sit down at 10,like my parents, or at seven or
whatever every day would sitdown and watch the news at like
nine or 10, at nine o'clock or10 o'clock news.
Same with mine, I had, and thenafter they would watch the late
night show.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yep, would yours do that?
Yeah, they'd watch Jay.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Letterman or Jay David Letterman or Jay Leno.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
My family was Jay.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Leno, we were David Letterman.
I don't know why that's funny.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I don't know like why people chose, but we were just
Jay Leno, I guess.
Yeah, so anyways we.
Well, that's what my parentsdid.
I have never turned on the newsonce.
I never have either, never Iconsume all of my news through
written format, and it's usuallythrough X.
Now I, yeah, I consume all ofmy news through written format,
and it's usually through X.
Now.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I, yeah, I consume through X, where I, or I follow,
like certain people, on Tik TOKand that's how I do it.
Yeah, this is very true, andwe're we're not Gen Z, we're
millennial.
You know, I think that's amillennial and under kind of
thing.
For the most part, yeah, Iagree, it'll be very interesting
.
I did, I did catch some uh,some uh.
I followed.
Do you know jack mack is, uh,he's part of the barstool sports
network I don't know him, butyou've probably seen him before.
(11:07):
You probably just can't thinkabout who he is, but he came out
and said that, uh, kamala'steam reached out to the you
obviously know barstool oh, yeah, yeah and you know they have
several different, like bignetworks, of whether it be a
podcast or a show or whatever,and she reached out to all of
them to get in in on one oftheir podcasts or interviews,
(11:31):
and all of them turned her down.
So so I think I think she.
Why did they turn her down?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
um, I listened to dave portnoy, uh is it a
political thing, like they don'twant to support her as a
candidate, or is it?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well, I think, so I can't remember one of the guys.
I don't know if they've had any.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Have they had any political people?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Not that I know of.
So Dave Portnoy has the BFFpodcast and then there's the
other guy, who's more, who'slike Dave's right-hand man, but
more on the sports side, wherebff is like the guy with the
mustache.
Yes, um, he came out straightout and said, no, we like
(12:14):
there's no way we'd have her on.
So he came out and then portnoykind of was like, if I recall,
he was like and just like Idon't think it would have worked
, like he didn't really say,like I don't want her on.
He kind of even said like Italked to her, but eventually it
just ended up not beingsomething, whereas jack mack,
who doesn't really have a show,he's just like a tiktoker, like
he just he does he does kind oflike news, like he just, he just
(12:37):
breaks something down and hesaid they don't want.
He said that they reached out tohim and he sent a list of
questions and they ended upturning like they're, like we
need to the questions, you get10 minutes.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Oh, so they just didn't want.
They didn't want therestrictions.
I don't even know Well becauseI think that's what's
interesting about podcasts isthere?
It's Trish.
With traditional media there'sgoing to be a little bit more
nuance of like hey, this is onthe record, this is off the
record, that you know.
There's this you can call itintegrity or standards or
(13:14):
whatever where with podcastingthere isn't, it's pretty
unfiltered, and a lot of thesepeople who are big in the
podcasting world, they've madeit big by being unfiltered, sure
?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
yeah, but but jack mack didn't care, like he, he
was just like hey, here are myquestions and I think they
turned him down and he kind ofshows some of his questions and
some of them were kind of likefunny, like you know.
He was like.
You know, he's like I was gonnayou know the way I wanted to
bring up, like her tax, like youknow, her taxing richer people,
as I was gonna show her mysalary and see if I was gonna be
(13:46):
one of those people who aregonna be impacted.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's like that's how I was gonna address you know,
it's like there's little thingslike that and so, but anyway, so
I I don't think that because Ithink there's quite a few people
in barstool that have said theywere gonna vote for.
So I don't think I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, that's interesting, I don't know if
there's a yeah, like I said, onesaid no.
A nuance Dave and team said itjust wouldn't have worked out.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And then Jack Mack said yes, and then they turned
him down after they gotquestions.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
according to him, so, nonetheless, like new media is
important and we're going to seejust how important.
And again, the caveat here ispolitics are different than
products.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It's just to understand where are the eyes
and the attention, like the eyesand the attention are not on
the evening news every night.
Yeah Right, most people sitdown and maybe they'll watch the
news, but they're also havingtheir TikTok open or their
Instagram and they're watchingreels.
So never been a better andworse time to be in digital
(14:43):
marketing.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, I agree.
Last little current event thingDid you see the Dwayne Wade
statue unveiling?
Yes, it was brutal.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Sorry, Dwayne.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
So hopefully, maybe we're clipping this in as we're
talking.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Dwayne Wade is part owner of our hometown Utah.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Jazz, he is, he is.
But the best clip is likethere's like two or three clips
that are going around.
They unveil it and it's likeit's covered smoke, it's like
coming out, I think even someflames, kind of like fly up a
little bit, and then his face iskind of like this yeah, he's
(15:26):
kind of looking at it, but he'slike trying to, you know like
he's got the pursed lips youknow how like sometimes the
purse look at lips look is kindof more like a like he's
definitely holding in like shoota three and you dagger somebody
and you're kind of like you dothat, he kind of like tries to
morph it into that, I think yeah, that's bad
Speaker 1 (15:43):
and then he's so funny we'll show a clip right
here, yeah he's so funny how hegoes, like he's like who's that
guy?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
like he's like, can you believe this?
Who is that guy?
Like I love that he.
He's saying it as I can'tbelieve it's me, but it's just
so ironic because it is like,yeah, you're right, who is that
guy?
It looks nothing like him andthen it like he sits down with
his boy and the media catches areaction between the two of them
(16:10):
and it is so priceless Hisson's, just like it's so good I
don't know how this happens sooften with statues and I don't
know how that happens so often.
I mean, I think we can tie thisinto marketing well, cristiano
ronaldo had one that washorrible.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I think david beckham had one that was horrible yeah
uh, recently, duane way, therewas another basketball player
recently in the last coupleyears that had one that was
brutal well, you see this, yousee this.
We have two basketball playerstatues in Salt Lake for John
Stockton, carmelone, and theylook like John Stockton and
Carmelone.
(16:48):
They were done 20.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I'm sure when technology was significantly
worse.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So how like who?
Art and does nobody look atthese things before they're
released?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
we'll think about it.
Like I said, I think we can tiethis concept into some like
marketing things like think ofcan you think of the last?
I can think of one campaignthat happened and I think it's
far enough.
Oh, it's far enough removedthat we can talk about this
without with with anyone fromeither side being okay with it.
But the whole bud light, dylanmulvaney campaign when everyone
(17:29):
came out and said we had no idea, like on the bud light team, we
had no idea that was happeningright because there's a huge
reaction and then the seniorteam kind of threw the junior
team under the bus and said wedidn't know about it so you're
like, okay, cool, were theylying?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I don't know or or do they not pay attention?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
it's so.
I mean it's so believable intwo different ways.
It is totally believable thatone they're lying.
And it's also very believable.
After we've been in thecorporate world, you know to
understand how, just like, somepeople just don't like, they
don't do the checks and balancesyou know, yeah, maybe, yeah,
it's hard to know from really,really high things that end up
losing bud light, not justmillions, but billions of
(18:07):
dollars right to small thingslike hey, we sent an email that
had a really bad misspelled word, but it's funny, these checks
and balances, yeah, and there's,there's also just a question
about the board yeah, thereneeds to be checks and balances
with creative, but if you'resmall, we talk about this all
(18:28):
the time, right, like because wewe often give people the advice
that you should worry lessabout those checks and balances
than you think.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
For sure, the big difference here, and why it's
hard to extrapolate a lessonfrom the Dwyane Wade statue
other than just like checks andbalances, is because that's a
permanent fixture.
Yeah, it's very true.
I mean, it's literally carvedin stone.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I mean, they could probably cut its head off and
redo it.
I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Think it works like that.
I think you have to totallyredo the bust and the sculpture
and maybe I have no idea I don'tknow enough about that so, yeah
, let's forget the statue, butthe checks and balances.
So like, if you go to creative,the checks and balances that
matter the most, especially insocial media, is you have to
(19:20):
just have high velocity.
So how do you just churn outcertain concepts at a fast rate,
as at the fastest rate possible?
Basically, that you can alsokeep in mind you do have budgets
and like, depending on how muchmoney you're spending like
sometimes your budget can'thandle testing a ton of ads,
(19:41):
sure, but you have to be testingads, you have to be going
through different iterations andyou have to be willing to have
a Dwayne Wade moment.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah.
So I think, Something thatmight when you mean by that is
like something that you mightmight be ugly.
That might be ugly Might not beon brand yes or is something
that you wouldn't have thoughtof, where you, as the owner or
you as the team?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
or you as the brand might look at it and say like,
oh, that doesn't really looklike us yeah, but sometimes
guess what, like again, we'renot trying to draw too many
parallels here because again,even with politics and marketing
it's different.
We just like to play aroundwith these ideas.
But with the Dwayne Wade statue, dwayne Wade's looking at that
(20:28):
and kind of laughing, but DwayneWade hasn't had more attention
on him or his name or hislikeness.
Yeah, probably since he retired.
Probably since he retired LikeI would bet, dwayne Wade
searches have gone through theroof.
Yeah, so there's a ton ofattention around him and it's
not that negative on him.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Sure, no, not.
I mean it's not negative on himat all, it's just it's more so
on the Miami.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well, I don't even mad.
It's just like that's hilarious, like how did that happen?
And guess what?
In in a week no one's talkingabout this for sure.
So what I'm?
(21:12):
What I want to analyze andmaybe we should before this
podcast is released and maybe wecan plug it in later is I
wonder what his merch sales aredoing yeah, it'd be very
interesting, like if you typedin Dwayne Wade jersey.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You know, we could probably just look at that
really quickly just in GoogleTrends well, yeah, google Trends
is easy.
I don't know what the sales are, but but if we follow the you
know sales, follow search kindof mentality.
If, if more people aresearching for duane wade jerseys
, duane wade, I'm gonna go.
(21:53):
Duane wade is one term and thenI'm going to add a second term
Dwayne Wade.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Jersey.
Oh yeah, so his search interestis skyrocketed, probably from
people.
So it went from search intereston Dwayne Wade went from like
sub 10 to a hundred for DwayneWade and then if we put in
Dwayne Wade and then if we putin Dwayne Wade jersey.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I mean Dwayne Wade jersey is up too how much is
Dwayne Wade jersey up it's?
Not up a ton, but it's prettymuch from zero in the last 90
days to 25.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Dwayne Wade jersey.
I'm seeing it jump all the wayup to 50 what's your?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
last 90 days did I type in Dwayne Wade jersey wrong
?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Dwayne Wade.
No, that should be right yeahmine's showing mine's showing
like almost 50.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, nonetheless, whether it's 25 or 50, it's 25
or 50 more.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
More than it was before it enters for his jersey.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
So yes, it probably.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So maybe a little funny, maybe a little awkward,
but I bet he's sold more jerseysover the last little while.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
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So let's get back to creativetesting.
You said something that was Ithink I think could be an
interesting thing to break downas a media buying expert.
Uh, for those of you who don'tknow this, I know like obviously
(24:47):
everyone knows I don'tshouldn't say obviously, but
mark and I own a coupledifferent businesses.
We own a performance marketingconsulting agency and then we
also own um, a marketing SAStool for for surveys, and we own
some other things, but Mark,mark's like background and X
(25:08):
biggest expertise is in is inmedia buying, um.
So you said something I wanted.
I wanted to add some likeauthority here.
Um, you said something that Ithink was very interesting that
I hear from a lot of smallbrands that small, smaller
brands get, and even biggerbrands actually get a little bit
confused on this.
Why do you, why should brandsbe iterating and testing massive
(25:32):
amounts of creative?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
well there's.
The main reason is because youhave principles that always work
right.
So you have the principle ofthe scarcity effect right, of
using scarcity in your ad.
So, hey, this a scarcity adwould be.
If you have a hot sellingproduct and it's constantly
going out of stock like, you canreally use that to your
advantage to say, hey, this issomething that has sold out five
(26:07):
times, it's just released.
That's going to get peoplehaving a little bit of fear of
missing out.
There's other ways to you know,draw out that emotion.
You know, draw out that emotion.
But really the the fact is younever know what's going to work
with certain things and andpeople's attention is always
(26:27):
changing and social media haschanged things.
So, like, we've talked withcompanies like raindrop and
creatively and we brought themin on the podcast.
They do long, like moreevergreen ads, and the reason
why those are so important isbecause those tend to withstand
time better, like far betterthan generally like a static ad
(26:48):
or, you know, like a UGC ad orwhatever it is, or a restock ad
or a restock ad so you cancontrol a narrative around a
brand or a product for longerwith those bigger ads.
But most people, most companies,are not in a position to fork
out the kind of money it takesto create a big, evergreen ad.
So you're going to be down inthis like lower bracket of lower
(27:11):
production, and if you're inthat lower bracket with lower
production, then you have tojust play the volume game, which
is how do I test, how manyinteresting things can I test to
find out what hooks are gainingthe attention that I need to
sell my product?
Yep, and we've done this a longtime, like there's no better
(27:33):
way to do it than just doing it.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Like, you can have a great idea and we we have it
down to a formula where we don'thave to do quite as much as we
used to.
When we're doing even likesomething like a compilation,
where you just take all the oldfootage of a company and you
turn it into a new ad, we kindof understand like, hey, this is
a good hook, this is what.
These are the three hook ideaswe need to test.
Here's the body.
So the body of the ad doesn'thave to change as much as like
(27:58):
you're trying to test out justhooks maybe the beginning and
the end yeah, we talk about thisall the time and like that's
going back to our fly fishinganalogy.
um, when you're fly fishing,right, like the hardest part is,
or if you're just fishing ingeneral, like the hardest part
is just getting the fish to bitethe hook, because once, once
that happens in fly fishing, youcan still lose that fish as
(28:21):
you're trying to bring it to net, and that does happen, but it
doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It's less likely.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Like once you have the fish on the hook.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You're a lot more likely to reel that fish in
versus not.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, obviously, because, like if you don't have
a fish on the hook, you're nevergoing to get a fish to net.
Yeah, and getting a fish to biteon the hook is you have to go
through different flies, likeyou have to say, okay, it's
morning, like I see some I seelike a mayfly hatch, like I can
try some, like caddis I can try,you know, like some PMD flies,
(28:56):
like I can try these differenthooks and if they're not biting,
if they're not rising to thesurface, that means like the
fish are all down.
So then you have to go belowthe surface and use like what
are called like nymphs and stuff, and use like a dry dropper
setup.
But you have to rotate throughlike the best, the best ones,
like know how to say, okay, likeI tried this, this isn't
(29:17):
working, I gotta change my hooks.
And that's why I love comparingit to marketing, cause that's
all you're trying to do is getsomeone to hook and guess what,
sometimes those hooks are yourfilter too.
So we've talked a lot aboutmeasuring your ads and measuring
like hey, is an ad working?
Like one of the ways to measurean ad is called your hook rate,
(29:37):
which is how long are peoplestaying past your five or ten
second mark?
It depends on how you want tomeasure it.
Yep, um, we have found that wedon't typically like to measure
that very much, becausesometimes our best hook rate ads
have the worst performance?
Sure, because it's keeping thewrong people around yep right.
(30:02):
So like you have to be nuancedabout it.
Like, are you trying to catch abig fish or a small fish?
Or like, what type of fish areyou trying to catch?
Because they sometimes they eatdifferent things.
Yeah, and sometimes you don'twant certain people hooking on
your ads yeah so if you, if youhave the right hooks, like what
you're really measuring is like,how effective is it at creating
(30:23):
the action you want, which isgoing to be people who are
interested in your, your brand,and then buy?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, it's like how you can really measure three
different things right.
It's like how good is it atgetting people to stop?
There's your hook.
How good is it at catchingpeople's interest?
There's your hook.
How good is it catchingpeople's interest?
There's your click, and evenmaybe more so, like the link
click-through rate.
Yeah, and then how good is itat selling the product?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
and I would say link click-through rate.
If you want to look at top,some people say none of this
matters and like all you need toworry about are cpas.
Yep, which is neither here northere.
I don't even like really wantto get into that today, but we
like to say hey, like a good toplevel is link click through
(31:07):
rates when you're comparingagainst other ads and in like a
similar category.
Because link click through rateis the actual.
Hey, I'm clicking on the buynow or whatever the call to
action is Like they're actuallyclicking on the action, the
desired action.
Whether they take that or not isanother question, but that's
(31:29):
how you know.
Hey, this audience not only iswatching this ad.
If it's a video, a static, youknow you don't have the hook
rate, you're just going to belooking straight at link
click-through rates and costpers and all that.
But again, the only way to getthrough these and figure these
out is like if you test moreyeah and that's not just testing
(31:52):
.
To test, like don't just testeverything and anything out
there yeah, I was gonna be mynext and don't test like the
same and and I think a lot ofpeople get caught up on this,
which is lesson number one whenyou're testing ads is don't like
you're not amazon, like don'tsit there and like test a
different font, like fourdifferent fonts and like the
(32:14):
same title, sure, or like we'relike six different colors of
orange.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, like six different colors of orange.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, like just test different concepts out before
you test more granular detailsyeah.
So what I mean by by that is, ifwe have a static and say, hey,
we're gonna test for statics,what a lot of times what we like
to do is we say, hey, here's,here's the four statics.
What a lot of times what welike to do is we say, hey,
here's, here's the four statics,but here are the four headlines
(32:41):
that we're testing, right, sowe can say something like I
don't know what are we sellinglike shoes, yeah, hey, the
number one, shoes for running,right.
And then you can go like more alittle bit instead of uh, more
like feature or use case.
Then you could go moreemotional, which is, hey, the
number one, dad shoe, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Or the shoe that dads trust.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
So now we're, or the shoes thathelp mom, pregnant moms, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So now you're getting more into the benefits and
you're identifying your customerin the headline, like in the
actual H1.
Totally, you're filtering forwho you want to target Okay.
So, like number one runningshoes, like there's a lot of
runners Sure.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
And you can be talking to men, women, 18 year
olds.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes, A better headline might be that's going
to cause more emotion.
That we would probably test issomething more like hey, a
running shoe that doesn't suck.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Or a running shoe that lasts, or you know, like
now you're starting to cut likecater in on.
Hey, if I'm a running shoecompany and I'm selling running
shoes and I've done surveys andI know my customer, I know that
the three most important valuesfor them is that a running shoe
lasts right, that a running shoehas.
Let's just, let's just sayyou're dealing with it's
comfortable maybe an olderdemographic and arch support is
(34:03):
a big deal sure so it's likedurable arch support and then
comfort, in that order.
So we're going to take those andwe're going to test those in
the ads first and foremost likehey, comfort durability and arch
support.
Yeah, and then out of thosethree tests, we'll probably use
(34:24):
the same image in those three,just to figure out you don't
want too many variables in thatimagery, right, because yeah you
don't want to like, just testfive different if you go arch
support with a different imageof comfort, and comfort wins.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Was it comfort or was it?
The image was more compelling.
Yep, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
And now when you're testing these ads, you can do
one of two things you can eitheruse well, there's three ways of
doing it.
If you're using cost caps,which some people are advocating
a lot for right now, you canjust throw it all basically into
the same ad set.
Yeah, you can just throw it allbasically into the same ad set.
Yeah, there's an argumentsometimes for doing that, even
(35:01):
with a broad max conversion adset too, right?
So method one is you just throwin your variables.
We don't tend to like that justdepending on levels of spend.
I personally like using dynamiccreative ad sets where you can
(35:21):
test different ad copy, you cantest those different variations
of those ads, you can set acertain spend limit on it and
then you can get through testingreally fast, like, I mean, the
algorithm does a really good jobof figuring out which ones are
working the best, yep, so I likedynamic creative ad sets
oftentimes.
Or you can also just create likea small ad set where you're
(35:42):
where you're testing ads andthen migrating winners over to.
But you want to make sure thecosts that you're mitigating the
loss on that, because sometimesthere's false positives and
false negatives depending onyour business goals, sure, but
anyways, yeah.
So you can either just likethrow them in there and just
like let the algorithm do itsthing into your, in your
evergreen ad sets, or you canseparate it into a dynamic,
(36:05):
creative or just a regular adset and test those variations
out yourself and then generallyafter you, because, because,
obviously, if a brand's juststarting running ads or they're
just getting, you know, gettinggoing here, you kind of just
have to test a bunch of stuff,right, is what you're talking
about?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yep, now what?
What's your recommendation?
As as you start to learn, howare you documenting?
Or how should these guys, howshould people be documenting, to
be like, hey, you know whatComfort is, comfort wins over
our support all the time.
So are you putting that inthese like winter categories to
now say, okay, cool, let's testcomfort, but in video format or
let's test comfort with these 10different images.
(36:39):
It's the same headline, but nowwe're testing imagery.
Yep, you know, is it comfortwith a mom holding a kid?
You know to showcase like thatemotion of, is it comfort of an
elderly person who's Well, yeah,let's just say it's comfort for
a demographic.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Typically you're selling to 45 to 60 year olds or
whatever right like.
I'm assuming there's not a lotof 60 year olds that are still
like running if we're using thishypothetical example of a
running company.
Yeah, hey, we tested somestatics.
Statics are the easiest thingsto test because you can turn
them out a lot faster right, youcan create them that now you
(37:17):
have videos.
Let's say, you have a bunch ofvideos, you don't know what to
do.
You can then compile thosevideos into compilation ads or
even use ai videos and you canmix stock videos.
Right, you can do that to nowcreate hooks around an old
person I don't want to say anold person, but let's just say
like a 50 year old experiencingfoot pain after they ran, like
(37:40):
they're taking their shoe offwith foot pain.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Right.
So now you're creating thismoment where it's like hey did.
Does somebody identify withthis person?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And so here's the pain.
Now we resolve the pain.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right, or you can try the flip or the reverse of that
, which is more of hey, here'sthe good part, which is this
person feels good after they run, and maybe the headline or
whatever you're using, or thevoiceover says do you wish you
felt like this after you ran,and then you show the pain and
then you show the the resolutionthe resolution.
(38:12):
So yeah, essentially you canstart with statics test and then
you start grabbing that idea.
Okay, comfort's our winner.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
How does comfort translate into four different
new hooks or?
Three hooks on a video.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And again, the body of the video compilation is
generally going to stay the same, which is we always recommend,
like throw in some social proof,throw in some testimonials,
right Like you can do all that.
You can make it look like an ad, it can be ugly, you can throw
UGC into it.
Whatever it is, there's a,there's literally a thousand
(38:50):
ways to skin a cat, as they say.
Yep, speaking of a Chadwickhooligan from your show, of
Chadwick Hooligan from your show.
Nailed it Chadwick Thwitz,thwitz.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Thackery Binks.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Thackery Binks.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Very close.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
And, yeah, a thousand ways to skin a cat.
We have our processes, butthese are just some general
ideas.
So take your winning concept,turn it into video.
If you can't produce a wholevideo, go film some stuff
yourself.
You can go grab stock videos.
There's still ways to test andthen figure out what hooks are
working for your demographic.
(39:30):
Is it showing the pain first?
Is it showing the resolutionfirst?
Is it something that hasnothing to do with either of
those and it's just aninteresting visual?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yep and document it.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And document it?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, so that you can understand what the learnings
are.
You can go back six monthslater and retest something.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
So we like to document that and then we use
ChatGPT to help us create newideas as well.
So ChatGPT can help you in thisdocumentation and iteration
process.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Chat GPT and between chat GPT and surveying right,
like as we survey more customers.
It helps you get more ideas onthings you can test.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yes, because it'll also identify with the customers
, like, for example, we've seencustomers list their top four
reasons for buying, butsometimes number three is the
best hook, sure out of theirmotivation, sure yeah so that's
why it's important not to justtake number one like you got.
You got to just test and say,hey, visually.
(40:27):
So, for example, if we'retaking this hypothetical shoe
company and they say comfort,arch support, and then uh,
durability are their three mostimportant, but durability, I
think let's just say durabilitywas number one, right in our
first it was durability, archsupport and then comfort.
Durability might not be thatemotionally intriguing from a
(40:51):
visual standpoint.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, and and and durability is oftentimes like an
overplayed thing.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
That because you can mix durability with quality,
right, yes, everyone's, oh, highquality, high quality, best
shoe exactly yeah, so durability, even though that might be
their number one motivation, ifyou survey them, it also might
just not be that intriguing,yeah, or it might just be table
stakes like totally the mostimportant, but that's just what
they expect, so everyone'sexpecting, sure, so you can't
(41:21):
just take your number one andsay that's all we're testing.
Yep, so like that's why when wedid that example, it's almost
like I went straight to comfort,because comfort is already, in
my mind, the easiest thing tovisually demonstrate.
Sure, it's the mostdemonstrable of the three
motivations, because even inarch, support and comfort kind
of go one one together yeah, soarch support is going to be more
(41:46):
of like injury prevention,where the the comfort is going
to be more of like you feel goodwhile you're wearing it.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, okay, so, uh, so what?
What are some?
We've recently talked aboutthis with some clients of ours
or just people we've consultedwith.
We've talked a lot about hooks,like lately.
What are some categories anddifferent styles of hooks that
people can be testing and tryingLike?
For example, we had thisconversation with a brand who
(42:18):
was talking about how they likethey're very much and they're a
really big brand and they verymuch they're in the health world
.
They like to be more positive.
Hey, this is how you're goingto feel when you take our
products where we've seen kindof the opposite, that like in
the ad testing world, more ofthat fear based.
(42:40):
Hey, this is what will happento you if you don't.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Versus this will happen to you.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
if you do, tends to outperform the, the hell tends
to outperform the heaven a lotof times.
So give me some examples.
What are some good examples ofdifferent styles of hooks that
people can be testing and trying?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, the number one.
I mean, the number one thingthat we like to do is we like to
play off of this idea.
We, at our agency, we call itheaven or hell.
So are you trying to createlike a positive, aspirational
emotion in the hook, or are youtrying to create like a fear
based emotion, a fear of missingout?
(43:19):
Right, so, it depends on thebrand, but sometimes, in a
highly competitive market, thefear the fear based is often
going to and speaking ofhalloween, right, the fear base
is going to win.
Yeah, and fear isn't likeyou're scaring them, like you're
going to die, you know, but itis, it's.
(43:41):
It's a very quick, demonstrableway of showing like whatever
the pain point is that they'reexperiencing, rather than the
relief.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
You're showing the pain, because a lot of people
will identify with the pain.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Not necessarily the, necessarily the relief with a
quick snippet.
So a good example of that is,if you are a skincare company,
using hell is going to be like.
This is what your skin lookslike now.
Or if you don't use our product,which is maybe it's acne, maybe
it's blemishes, maybe it'swrinkles, whatever it is right.
(44:15):
It's like a quick before andafter.
Like this is what it looks likewith us, usually starting with
like the not great and thenshowing the great results.
That's always going to be thebetter.
Now, there are rules aroundthat with Facebook that you
can't do, sure sure.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Depending on health.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
But nonetheless that's just a good.
Can't do Sure.
Sure, Depending on health, yeah, but nonetheless that's just a
good idea.
Yeah, Heaven for sale.
So sometimes the aspirationalworks better.
So if you are a clothing brand,right, sometimes it's not going
to work to show like oh, youdon't look good wearing not our
(44:54):
stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be more of.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Hey, how do you imagine yourself, like, why are
you shopping?
Usually, people are shoppingfor clothes because they want to
feel a certain way in a certainmoment.
Right, they want to look acertain way.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
And that's where I think a lot of people miss the
mark when they're trying tocreate ads, is it's not just
looking a certain way, it'slooking away in a moment.
Yeah, so if you're selling um,let's say you're a men's
clothing company selling jeans,right, you got to think about,
like, what are the moments thatmen see themselves wearing those
(45:28):
jeans?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, Is it?
Oh, they actually want jeanscause they they're.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
They're working outside and they need something
that's going to be durable.
Is it?
Hey, they actually want jeansbecause they're working outside
and they need something that'sgoing to be durable, is it?
Hey, they want to look a littlenicer because jeans kind of you
know, they can fluctuatebetween dress up and dress down.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
So what are the ways that people envision themselves
and what are the moments, andthen you try to showcase those
moments and then they can seethemselves in those moments
while they're shopping forclothes, sure those moments and
then they can see themselves inthose moments while they're
shopping for clothes, sure?
Speaker 2 (45:56):
what are some other cool hook styles that and you
were before the podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
We were talking about these different yeah, like one
of another, one's going to besocial proof as a hook.
Yeah, so as seen in shark tank,that's an easy one, right?
Or like as seen on over 5,000five-star reviews yeah, over
500,000 customers served or over2 million protein shakes sold,
or whatever.
It is Right yeah, yeah.
Like a big number showing thatpeople trust you is going to be
(46:23):
a really easy hook to use aswell.
Totally Now, again, if you're asmall company, you might not
have that social proof, yeah,which is why I think the heaven
and hell concept is just theeasiest way to start iterating
on your ads right now.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Especially if you're a little smaller.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, and then the emotional contrast is really
just important, because whenyou're thinking of heaven and
hell, your hook might be heaven,your hook might be hell, but
you're going to showcase theother part.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You're going to contrast it in the ad.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
If it's a video ad, if it's a static, you're not
really going to be contrastingthat Sure.
The contrast in a static isusually going to be something
clever with the wording.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Usually a straight image isn't going to do a whole
lot.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
But if you have a funny headline overlay on your
static, sometimes it cancontrast with the static itself.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
So, using wordplay, you can use a bad word with an
asterisk in it, right?
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Like maybe it's a really elegant shot of a woman
wearing a gown in a moonlitmeadow right or something, but
maybe the the headline sayssomething like classy as shit
right, yeah, yeah, there's likea juxtaposition there yeah, like
(47:51):
you create, you create acontrast.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
You're a little edgy, but this is classy Like edgy
and classy.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
So that's ways you can create contrast and statics.
But again, I think, start withheaven and hell, because heaven
and hell always has a contrast.
Right, like you have heaven,which is this glorious place,
right, and we're thinking ofthis in the abstract, not the
literal Sure yep, and then hellis like misery and like what you
don't want to happen or edgyright, so like, if you can
(48:20):
contrast, like that's how youdraw attention, is contrast?
yeah, I agree without contrastyou're just kind of bland yeah,
you just kind of fit in witheveryone else.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Any other off the top of your dome?
Speaker 1 (48:34):
good example hooks well, if people want to Sign up
for our newsletter and communitythere that we don't have yet.
We'll have it all outlined forhim there.
Yeah, no, but no, I think.
Yeah, there's other examples,but I think for the sake of time
and and conciseness.
(48:54):
So, yeah, there's otherexamples, but I think for the
sake of time and conciseness.
That's where you start.
Cool, because a lot of people,even big brands, miss that mark
all the time.
There's not contrast, it's justhere's my features or here's a
few benefits.
And that's a great place tostart, which is usually it's
going to be benefits overfeatures.
Yep, great place to start.
(49:17):
But now, how do you starthaving, start having, like you
said, more juxtapositions ormore contrast?
How do you start drawing?
Speaker 2 (49:21):
attention to things in a clever way.
Yep, yep, I think the big thingthat I want to maybe just like
reiterate before we close hereis um, if you're talking about
more or less creative, more isalways going to be the side to
err on.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
We've seen it, yeah because you're not always going
to use every piece of creativeeither Totally, but if you have
the creative engine going, it'sa lot easier to get through hard
spots.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Yeah, and Meta's doing such a good job with their
algorithm too.
A lot of people think that themore the more.
Now, obviously, if you're onlyspending two to five hundred
dollars a day and you've got onehundred and fifty ads in there,
that's a different story,because it's going to be
challenging to allocate budgetto all one hundred and fifty of
those Assets.
(50:11):
But so there is a limit assets.
But so there there is a limit,obviously.
But for the most part, metadoes such a great job at making
sure that it's testing thiscreative and if it's not hitting
those benchmarks you've set,it's going to push it aside.
So you might be spending fiftythousand dollars a month, or a
hundred thousand dollars a monthand two ads 10 ads might only
(50:35):
have $25 each of that hundred,you know.
So it's like you.
You might see a bad performingad, but it's like when you go
look at the spend, it's not.
It's not sucking up a budget toactually make a difference, not
not to say that that $25 thatit used on it isn't still your
money, but there's learningsfrom it, right?
You, instead of being like, ohshoot, we should take this down.
(50:58):
It's what?
Why didn't this ad perform?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
yeah, it's just going back to the Pareto principle,
80-20 rule yep, I mean, wealready know that you're always
going to have 20 percent of yourads are probably going to
generate 80 percent or more ofyour your revenue and profits.
Yeah, like the 80 percent ormore of your your revenue and
profits yeah like the 80 20 ruleis undefeated.
It's everywhere and we talkabout it in everything all the
time because it is undefeated.
(51:23):
Same thing with your ads.
Yes, in the end, 20 percent ofyour ads will be what generate
almost all of your revenue.
The problem is, those adsaren't always relevant, and so
if you don't always have alittle new ad churning machine,
(51:44):
then a lot of times we seecompanies get caught flat-footed
and whatever the algorithmchanges or the taste changes or
the season changes or whatever,whatever it is that changes, and
they're stuck thinking we, ohwell, we had our winners, yeah,
and now you don't anymore?
Yeah, totally.
And it's really hard to startchurning that engine while
(52:06):
you're losing, because then ohwell, the defense yeah.
Well, we don't, we can't affordto lose, right?
It's like, well, you kind ofhave to lose when you're
figuring out what's working.
Yeah, totally so.
Anyways, to recap, please, whatwe like to do is you go and,
when you're starting youriteration process, start with
(52:30):
your three main motivators ofyour customers.
Right, filter those through theheaven and hell concept as you
create statics and videos.
What's the emotional contrastand what are some hooks you can
start testing?
Start testing them out in thestructure which is usually going
to be an ad set.
You can do a dynamic creative adset or just a regular ad set.
(52:52):
Put spend limits.
A dynamic, creative ad set orjust a regular ad set?
Put spend limits.
Don't let it go crazy, butsometimes they work so well you
just release.
Sometimes that ad set ends upbeing your winning ad set
anyways just because of the newads.
But keep it structured, keep itsimple, let it run.
Don't turn it off if it's notworking in three days.
Let it run for 14 days,sometimes seven days.
(53:15):
Get enough data in there at alow budget that you can say this
worked or didn't work.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Okay, and before you decide it didn't work, look at
the metrics.
Which is going to be your linkclick-through rates, your top
line metrics, your CPAs.
Sometimes you're going to haveawesome link click-through rates
, but maybe it's just the wrongoffer.
Sometimes you're going to haveawesome link click-through rates
, but maybe it's just the wrongoffer.
Yeah, so don't just throw an adaway because you have really
high engagement but lowconversions.
(53:43):
Think about it and say, well,are we just sending them to the
wrong experience?
Sure, do we not have the rightoffer?
Is it the wrong land?
Like, did we mix up the landingpages?
Are we sending them to acollection page or to a product
page?
Yeah, so sometimes it's not thead, it's just the experience.
So, yep, then analyze theexperience, but totally look at
(54:05):
your link click through rates todetermine if it's a high
engagement ad.
It's an easy way.
Yes, you can use hook hookthrough rates on the videos, but
but that doesn't alwaystranslate to doesn't always
translate.
Yeah, because sometimes you wanta certain person like you want
a certain amount of people notengaging totally yeah, there's
certain demographics that don'tbuy, but love watching things
(54:30):
yeah, usually they're 55 andolder.
Very, very true If you knowyour meta demographics.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yes, All right.
Well, thank you everybody fortuning in and we'll see you guys
next week.
Yeah, Elections.
Yeah, good luck.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
podcast.
Please go rate.
And Marketer podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
(54:59):
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go, follow meand get in touch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
There's literally a thousand ways to skin a cat, as
they say.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Take your winning concept, turn it into video.
If you can't produce a wholevideo, go film some stuff
yourself.
You can go grab stock videos.
There's still ways to test andthen figure out what hooks are
working for your demographic.
Is it showing the pain first?
Is it showing the resolutionfirst?
Is it something that hasnothing to do with either of
those and it's just aninteresting visual?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yep, and either of those, and it's just an
interesting visual.
Yep, and document it, anddocument it.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the unstoppablemarketer podcast with me, as
always, mr mark goldheart.
How are you, sir?
I'm good, good, I'm good, good,good, good, we got, uh, you
know it's funny, we taught I, weI can say this because you know
(00:45):
my little brother, because wewere with Nicholas, we worked
with him.
But every time he calls me.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Jolly old St Nick.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yep, every time he calls me, he always is like hey,
what's going on, man, how areyou Like?
That is always his opening lineand I'll always say doing good,
man, or you know doing this, orwhatever.
How about you?
And he just goes good, good.
So it's like this, like he hasno idea that he does it, but
(01:15):
he's asking as a formality,probably doesn't really care
exactly what I say.
The response is always good,good, so we're going to be over
at the house in 20 minutes, CanI da-da-da-da-da-da?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
you know.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Good good, good, good , good, good, good good.
I don't know if I've ever toldhim that, so if he listens, I
don't know if he listens to thisWell, I did Good.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Good, I did start a multivitamin regimen this week.
It's a good time to do that.
I've never taken vitamins.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
We got snow, we got the weather changing.
That means the sicknesses arecoming.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It snowed today.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I went to go drive over the mountain and I had to
turn around because there wastwo inches of snow on the road.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, you had to turn around.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I did.
Why my tires are.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
A little scary.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, and I didn't want to go down that hill.
Okay, that's fair, that's a big.
It's like I'm going down acanyon hill, you know, yeah,
that's fair, so I flipped around.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Luckily I only made it halfway up for us utahns,
though, two inches is it no,it's not bad.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
If I was in my wife's car, or even if I had like
better tires, I probably wouldtake the tesla and well then,
tesla's, heavy though you gotta,yeah, the tesla's heavy, so the
tesla can handle it, I thinkit'll be fine, yeah um but
multivitamins nice.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So we'll see how I feel.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I've never done vitamins I do vitamins every day
for a while.
I don't know if I noticed thedifference.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
To be honest, I'm 35, so I said mid-30s.
I need to get into a little bitmore of a health routine.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I get less sick.
I do think I recognize that,that I get less sick in the
wintertime.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
But I don't notice anything this summer.
Yeah, I guess we'll find out.
We'll see if I get more energy.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I'm excited for you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
More focused, less sick.
Halloween is this week.
Halloween's this week.
It's one of your favoriteholidays.
It's one of my favoriteholidays.
My probably least favoriteholiday yeah, it's my wife's one
of my wife's least favorite tooyeah, it's just so I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I love everything about it, huge fan I dislike
almost not.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I don't dislike everything, like I'm not, like I
hate halloween, we don't doanything.
There's just so much I don'tlike about it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
There's virtually nothing I don't like about it.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I hate the smells.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I don't like that.
My kids have a ton of candy.
You know the smell of the fakeweb.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I think I understand what you're saying Like that
like plasticky smell fromcostumes.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Or just like makeup, and yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Hate it.
Yeah, that's good from costumesor just like makeup and yeah
Hate it, just hate it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's good.
You know what Kenzie and I were.
We would go to a Halloweenparty.
We were Thackery Binks fromHocus Pocus.
Have you seen Hocus Pocus?
I have not, you've never seenHocus Pocus.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Not even as a child.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
No, we didn't have Disney.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, this doesn't matter to you, but anyone
listening?
We are Thackery Binks.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Hocus Pocus.
Is that lame Disney movie right?
It's the best With like thewitches that are all ugly.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
It's the best of the Halloween shows.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Of course I say that because witches are always ugly,
right, they try to make themugly.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, it's Halloween.
Yeah, it's Halloween Not thatthe actresses are ugly.
If you're listening to this,we're what like a day there's a
redhead one and there's a yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
No, I've never seen it, but I know what you're
talking about, because everyonetalks about it all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, well, I'll show you my costume and then I'll
show you what the characterlooks like.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So when you say Thackeray, he's the main
character.
What is he?
He's a witch.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
He's a.
His sister gets killed by thewitches in the very beginning
and he Did they eat her?
Gets cursed into being a catfor the rest of his life because
he tries to save her.
So I was Thackeray Binks fromthe witches' days, like the
Salem Witch Trial days.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, it starts in the Salem Witch Trials.
Yep, oh, okay and.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Kenzie was Thackeray binks, the cat from present day
who stuck around.
Oh cool, and he can count, hecan talk and he lives forever.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The cat just gotta see the movie oh, so he's a kid,
so he gets turned into cat andhe lives forever yep to protect
that area so that no one bringsthe witches back.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
You gotta watch the show.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
We could spend too much time on it.
So wait, the witches cursed him.
Yeah, the witches cursed him,but he also lives forever.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Cursed him to be a cat, to live forever Not to
protect, but that's what hedecides to dedicate his cat life
to.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Because if somebody, the way the witches come back is
if they light a candle.
They come back A certain candle, the black flame candle, and it
has to be lit by a virgin.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
A virgin yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It's actually a really good movie because of how
funny it is, like it's a kid'smovie but they talk about
virgins a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
They talk about virgin sacrifice.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, virgins they talk about.
They talk about virgin virginsacrifice.
Yeah, it's like those 90.
You know how 90s, 80s, 90 showsthat were more kid shows.
You're like, whoa, there's alot of sexual innuendo,
innuendos here.
Have you gotten to that pointyet watching shows with your
kids yet?
Uh, not really.
Yeah, you, you'll.
You'll get to it at some pointin time where you start to watch
something you're like, oh my Idid not realize.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
True, I did.
I did watch the goofy movie andI was like, as a parent, I'm
like I don't, I'm trying, Idon't know, I don't like this
movie half as much as I did whenI was as a kid.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There's like some innuendos there and there's some
yeah, there's a lot as you like, obviously it obviously it goes
way over the kids' heads, butI'm like oh, I don't.
Shrek has some good ones.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah well, Shrek is just so clever about it all.
Yeah, To me Shrek is they do itpretty, they do it great Well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
All right, let's move forward.
If you're listening to this,you are what.
Are we a day or two away fromthe election?
Uh, no, we are.
Is it election day?
No, it's a week.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Well, I know right now it is, but if they're
listening to it, oh, if they'relistening I don't know when do
we release these mondays?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
no, we at least release these tuesdays then two
days away we're two days awayfrom the election.
Anything, anything, anymarketing election things we
should address, or is right nowjust like the savage, the
savagery of the electionelection.
That's kind of like what it is.
It's like the Hail Marys of theelection, where you know
everyone's like coming out.
Trump is coming at Kamala aslike, hey, you're the dumbest
(07:34):
person on earth, and Kamala iscoming at Trump Like he's Hitler
, like that's kind of the lastminute Hail.
Marys.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah To stay away from the rhetoric of.
Yeah to stay away from therhetoric of nazis and commies
and you know all that.
I don't know if there's reallyanything other than I haven't
seen big trump released apodcast with joe rogan.
Joe rogan, that's right thatgarnished 100 million views.
No, it hasn't.
No, it's like 35 million, right?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
now, I was actually looking at it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Spot.
Check that Grace.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
This is what's crazy.
I got it right here.
This is actually what's kind ofcrazy about that podcast.
It's 35 million views in lessthan 37 million views in three
days, and if you go to JoeRogan's most popular episodes,
it's 50 million 61 million.
Which?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
is Bob Lazar, which is Bob Lazar?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Which is Bob Lazar, and that Jeremy Corbell.
Yeah, and that was five yearsago, so 61 million.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And then let me guess number two.
Let me guess Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Nope, that's now number four.
It used to be number three, butTrump just.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So Bob Lazar is number one.
Oh shoot, who's number twosnowden edward.
Snowden, edward, snowden.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
He's at 38 million so trump, I'm sure, by tomorrow
trump will be.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
He'll be the second most popular okay which is,
which is the only reason whythat's relevant, I think, is we.
You know, we keep talking aboutthe decentralized news network,
I guess, like this new age mediaand it'll be interesting to see
how this plays out Like didTrump reach the audiences that
he was trying to reach whilecompletely not told?
(09:17):
Like he had surrogates ontraditional media.
Jd Vance has made a lot ofappearance on CNN, like on on
cnn and other news outletsyou've had, like the vivek
ramaswami and the vivek, so he'shad surrogates, but trump
himself has pretty much not beenon traditional media, where
kamala has very much been ontraditional media.
She had a town hall recently,she did some other things, so so
(09:39):
what's really interesting isthis is the litmus test I think
to, to know if traditional mediahas kind of faded into a very
obvious second and third place.
Like how do people consumeinformation?
I don't think it's withmillennials.
People just don't watch thenews like our parents did.
(10:01):
Yeah, it's true, boomers usedto sit down at 10, like my
parents, seven or whatever everyday would sit down and watch
the news like our parents did.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, that's true.
Boomers used to sit down at 10,like my parents, or at seven or
whatever every day would sitdown and watch the news at like
nine or 10, at nine o'clock or10 o'clock news.
Same with mine, I had, and thenafter they would watch the late
night show.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yep, would yours do that?
Yeah, they'd watch Jay.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Letterman or Jay David Letterman or Jay Leno.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
My family was Jay.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Leno, we were David Letterman.
I don't know why that's funny.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I don't know like why people chose, but we were just
Jay Leno, I guess.
Yeah, so anyways we.
Well, that's what my parentsdid.
I have never turned on the newsonce.
I never have either, never Iconsume all of my news through
written format, and it's usuallythrough X.
Now I, yeah, I consume all ofmy news through written format,
and it's usually through X.
Now.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I, yeah, I consume through X, where I, or I follow,
like certain people, on Tik TOKand that's how I do it.
Yeah, this is very true, andwe're we're not Gen Z, we're
millennial.
You know, I think that's amillennial and under kind of
thing.
For the most part, yeah, Iagree, it'll be very interesting
.
I did, I did catch some uh,some uh.
I followed.
Do you know jack mack is, uh,he's part of the barstool sports
network I don't know him, butyou've probably seen him before.
(11:07):
You probably just can't thinkabout who he is, but he came out
and said that, uh, kamala'steam reached out to the you
obviously know barstool oh, yeah, yeah and you know they have
several different, like bignetworks, of whether it be a
podcast or a show or whatever,and she reached out to all of
them to get in in on one oftheir podcasts or interviews,
(11:31):
and all of them turned her down.
So so I think I think she.
Why did they turn her down?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
um, I listened to dave portnoy, uh is it a
political thing, like they don'twant to support her as a
candidate, or is it?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well, I think, so I can't remember one of the guys.
I don't know if they've had any.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Have they had any political people?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Not that I know of.
So Dave Portnoy has the BFFpodcast and then there's the
other guy, who's more, who'slike Dave's right-hand man, but
more on the sports side, wherebff is like the guy with the
mustache.
Yes, um, he came out straightout and said, no, we like
(12:14):
there's no way we'd have her on.
So he came out and then portnoykind of was like, if I recall,
he was like and just like Idon't think it would have worked
, like he didn't really say,like I don't want her on.
He kind of even said like Italked to her, but eventually it
just ended up not beingsomething, whereas jack mack,
who doesn't really have a show,he's just like a tiktoker, like
he just he does he does kind oflike news, like he just, he just
(12:37):
breaks something down and hesaid they don't want.
He said that they reached out tohim and he sent a list of
questions and they ended upturning like they're, like we
need to the questions, you get10 minutes.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Oh, so they just didn't want.
They didn't want therestrictions.
I don't even know Well becauseI think that's what's
interesting about podcasts isthere?
It's Trish.
With traditional media there'sgoing to be a little bit more
nuance of like hey, this is onthe record, this is off the
record, that you know.
There's this you can call itintegrity or standards or
(13:14):
whatever where with podcastingthere isn't, it's pretty
unfiltered, and a lot of thesepeople who are big in the
podcasting world, they've madeit big by being unfiltered, sure
?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
yeah, but but jack mack didn't care, like he, he
was just like hey, here are myquestions and I think they
turned him down and he kind ofshows some of his questions and
some of them were kind of likefunny, like you know.
He was like.
You know, he's like I was gonnayou know the way I wanted to
bring up, like her tax, like youknow, her taxing richer people,
as I was gonna show her mysalary and see if I was gonna be
(13:46):
one of those people who aregonna be impacted.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's like that's how I was gonna address you know,
it's like there's little thingslike that and so, but anyway, so
I I don't think that because Ithink there's quite a few people
in barstool that have said theywere gonna vote for.
So I don't think I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, that's interesting, I don't know if
there's a yeah, like I said, onesaid no.
A nuance Dave and team said itjust wouldn't have worked out.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And then Jack Mack said yes, and then they turned
him down after they gotquestions.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
according to him, so, nonetheless, like new media is
important and we're going to seejust how important.
And again, the caveat here ispolitics are different than
products.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It's just to understand where are the eyes
and the attention, like the eyesand the attention are not on
the evening news every night.
Yeah Right, most people sitdown and maybe they'll watch the
news, but they're also havingtheir TikTok open or their
Instagram and they're watchingreels.
So never been a better andworse time to be in digital
(14:43):
marketing.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, I agree.
Last little current event thingDid you see the Dwayne Wade
statue unveiling?
Yes, it was brutal.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Sorry, Dwayne.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
So hopefully, maybe we're clipping this in as we're
talking.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Dwayne Wade is part owner of our hometown Utah.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Jazz, he is, he is.
But the best clip is likethere's like two or three clips
that are going around.
They unveil it and it's likeit's covered smoke, it's like
coming out, I think even someflames, kind of like fly up a
little bit, and then his face iskind of like this yeah, he's
(15:26):
kind of looking at it, but he'slike trying to, you know like
he's got the pursed lips youknow how like sometimes the
purse look at lips look is kindof more like a like he's
definitely holding in like shoota three and you dagger somebody
and you're kind of like you dothat, he kind of like tries to
morph it into that, I think yeah, that's bad
Speaker 1 (15:43):
and then he's so funny we'll show a clip right
here, yeah he's so funny how hegoes, like he's like who's that
guy?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
like he's like, can you believe this?
Who is that guy?
Like I love that he.
He's saying it as I can'tbelieve it's me, but it's just
so ironic because it is like,yeah, you're right, who is that
guy?
It looks nothing like him andthen it like he sits down with
his boy and the media catches areaction between the two of them
(16:10):
and it is so priceless Hisson's, just like it's so good I
don't know how this happens sooften with statues and I don't
know how that happens so often.
I mean, I think we can tie thisinto marketing well, cristiano
ronaldo had one that washorrible.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I think david beckham had one that was horrible yeah
uh, recently, duane way, therewas another basketball player
recently in the last coupleyears that had one that was
brutal well, you see this, yousee this.
We have two basketball playerstatues in Salt Lake for John
Stockton, carmelone, and theylook like John Stockton and
Carmelone.
(16:48):
They were done 20.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I'm sure when technology was significantly
worse.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So how like who?
Art and does nobody look atthese things before they're
released?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
we'll think about it.
Like I said, I think we can tiethis concept into some like
marketing things like think ofcan you think of the last?
I can think of one campaignthat happened and I think it's
far enough.
Oh, it's far enough removedthat we can talk about this
without with with anyone fromeither side being okay with it.
But the whole bud light, dylanmulvaney campaign when everyone
(17:29):
came out and said we had no idea, like on the bud light team, we
had no idea that was happeningright because there's a huge
reaction and then the seniorteam kind of threw the junior
team under the bus and said wedidn't know about it so you're
like, okay, cool, were theylying?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I don't know or or do they not pay attention?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
it's so.
I mean it's so believable intwo different ways.
It is totally believable thatone they're lying.
And it's also very believable.
After we've been in thecorporate world, you know to
understand how, just like, somepeople just don't like, they
don't do the checks and balancesyou know, yeah, maybe, yeah,
it's hard to know from really,really high things that end up
losing bud light, not justmillions, but billions of
(18:07):
dollars right to small thingslike hey, we sent an email that
had a really bad misspelled word, but it's funny, these checks
and balances, yeah, and there's,there's also just a question
about the board yeah, thereneeds to be checks and balances
with creative, but if you'resmall, we talk about this all
(18:28):
the time, right, like because wewe often give people the advice
that you should worry lessabout those checks and balances
than you think.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
For sure, the big difference here, and why it's
hard to extrapolate a lessonfrom the Dwyane Wade statue
other than just like checks andbalances, is because that's a
permanent fixture.
Yeah, it's very true.
I mean, it's literally carvedin stone.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I mean, they could probably cut its head off and
redo it.
I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Think it works like that.
I think you have to totallyredo the bust and the sculpture
and maybe I have no idea I don'tknow enough about that so, yeah
, let's forget the statue, butthe checks and balances.
So like, if you go to creative,the checks and balances that
matter the most, especially insocial media, is you have to
(19:20):
just have high velocity.
So how do you just churn outcertain concepts at a fast rate,
as at the fastest rate possible?
Basically, that you can alsokeep in mind you do have budgets
and like, depending on how muchmoney you're spending like
sometimes your budget can'thandle testing a ton of ads,
(19:41):
sure, but you have to be testingads, you have to be going
through different iterations andyou have to be willing to have
a Dwayne Wade moment.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah.
So I think, Something thatmight when you mean by that is
like something that you mightmight be ugly.
That might be ugly Might not beon brand yes or is something
that you wouldn't have thoughtof, where you, as the owner or
you as the team?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
or you as the brand might look at it and say like,
oh, that doesn't really looklike us yeah, but sometimes
guess what, like again, we'renot trying to draw too many
parallels here because again,even with politics and marketing
it's different.
We just like to play aroundwith these ideas.
But with the Dwayne Wade statue, dwayne Wade's looking at that
(20:28):
and kind of laughing, but DwayneWade hasn't had more attention
on him or his name or hislikeness.
Yeah, probably since he retired.
Probably since he retired LikeI would bet, dwayne Wade
searches have gone through theroof.
Yeah, so there's a ton ofattention around him and it's
not that negative on him.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Sure, no, not.
I mean it's not negative on himat all, it's just it's more so
on the Miami.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well, I don't even mad.
It's just like that's hilarious, like how did that happen?
And guess what?
In in a week no one's talkingabout this for sure.
So what I'm?
(21:12):
What I want to analyze andmaybe we should before this
podcast is released and maybe wecan plug it in later is I
wonder what his merch sales aredoing yeah, it'd be very
interesting, like if you typedin Dwayne Wade jersey.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You know, we could probably just look at that
really quickly just in GoogleTrends well, yeah, google Trends
is easy.
I don't know what the sales are, but but if we follow the you
know sales, follow search kindof mentality.
If, if more people aresearching for duane wade jerseys
, duane wade, I'm gonna go.
(21:53):
Duane wade is one term and thenI'm going to add a second term
Dwayne Wade.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Jersey.
Oh yeah, so his search interestis skyrocketed, probably from
people.
So it went from search intereston Dwayne Wade went from like
sub 10 to a hundred for DwayneWade and then if we put in
Dwayne Wade and then if we putin Dwayne Wade jersey.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I mean Dwayne Wade jersey is up too how much is
Dwayne Wade jersey up it's?
Not up a ton, but it's prettymuch from zero in the last 90
days to 25.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Dwayne Wade jersey.
I'm seeing it jump all the wayup to 50 what's your?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
last 90 days did I type in Dwayne Wade jersey wrong
?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Dwayne Wade.
No, that should be right yeahmine's showing mine's showing
like almost 50.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, nonetheless, whether it's 25 or 50, it's 25
or 50 more.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
More than it was before it enters for his jersey.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
So yes, it probably.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So maybe a little funny, maybe a little awkward,
but I bet he's sold more jerseysover the last little while.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
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So let's get back to creativetesting.
You said something that was Ithink I think could be an
interesting thing to break downas a media buying expert.
Uh, for those of you who don'tknow this, I know like obviously
(24:47):
everyone knows I don'tshouldn't say obviously, but
mark and I own a coupledifferent businesses.
We own a performance marketingconsulting agency and then we
also own um, a marketing SAStool for for surveys, and we own
some other things, but Mark,mark's like background and X
(25:08):
biggest expertise is in is inmedia buying, um.
So you said something I wanted.
I wanted to add some likeauthority here.
Um, you said something that Ithink was very interesting that
I hear from a lot of smallbrands that small, smaller
brands get, and even biggerbrands actually get a little bit
confused on this.
Why do you, why should brandsbe iterating and testing massive
(25:32):
amounts of creative?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
well there's.
The main reason is because youhave principles that always work
right.
So you have the principle ofthe scarcity effect right, of
using scarcity in your ad.
So, hey, this a scarcity adwould be.
If you have a hot sellingproduct and it's constantly
going out of stock like, you canreally use that to your
advantage to say, hey, this issomething that has sold out five
(26:07):
times, it's just released.
That's going to get peoplehaving a little bit of fear of
missing out.
There's other ways to you know,draw out that emotion.
You know, draw out that emotion.
But really the the fact is younever know what's going to work
with certain things and andpeople's attention is always
(26:27):
changing and social media haschanged things.
So, like, we've talked withcompanies like raindrop and
creatively and we brought themin on the podcast.
They do long, like moreevergreen ads, and the reason
why those are so important isbecause those tend to withstand
time better, like far betterthan generally like a static ad
(26:48):
or, you know, like a UGC ad orwhatever it is, or a restock ad
or a restock ad so you cancontrol a narrative around a
brand or a product for longerwith those bigger ads.
But most people, most companies,are not in a position to fork
out the kind of money it takesto create a big, evergreen ad.
So you're going to be down inthis like lower bracket of lower
(27:11):
production, and if you're inthat lower bracket with lower
production, then you have tojust play the volume game, which
is how do I test, how manyinteresting things can I test to
find out what hooks are gainingthe attention that I need to
sell my product?
Yep, and we've done this a longtime, like there's no better
(27:33):
way to do it than just doing it.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Like, you can have a great idea and we we have it
down to a formula where we don'thave to do quite as much as we
used to.
When we're doing even likesomething like a compilation,
where you just take all the oldfootage of a company and you
turn it into a new ad, we kindof understand like, hey, this is
a good hook, this is what.
These are the three hook ideaswe need to test.
Here's the body.
So the body of the ad doesn'thave to change as much as like
(27:58):
you're trying to test out justhooks maybe the beginning and
the end yeah, we talk about thisall the time and like that's
going back to our fly fishinganalogy.
um, when you're fly fishing,right, like the hardest part is,
or if you're just fishing ingeneral, like the hardest part
is just getting the fish to bitethe hook, because once, once
that happens in fly fishing, youcan still lose that fish as
(28:21):
you're trying to bring it to net, and that does happen, but it
doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It's less likely.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Like once you have the fish on the hook.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You're a lot more likely to reel that fish in
versus not.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, obviously, because, like if you don't have
a fish on the hook, you're nevergoing to get a fish to net.
Yeah, and getting a fish to biteon the hook is you have to go
through different flies, likeyou have to say, okay, it's
morning, like I see some I seelike a mayfly hatch, like I can
try some, like caddis I can try,you know, like some PMD flies,
(28:56):
like I can try these differenthooks and if they're not biting,
if they're not rising to thesurface, that means like the
fish are all down.
So then you have to go belowthe surface and use like what
are called like nymphs and stuff, and use like a dry dropper
setup.
But you have to rotate throughlike the best, the best ones,
like know how to say, okay, likeI tried this, this isn't
(29:17):
working, I gotta change my hooks.
And that's why I love comparingit to marketing, cause that's
all you're trying to do is getsomeone to hook and guess what,
sometimes those hooks are yourfilter too.
So we've talked a lot aboutmeasuring your ads and measuring
like hey, is an ad working?
Like one of the ways to measurean ad is called your hook rate,
(29:37):
which is how long are peoplestaying past your five or ten
second mark?
It depends on how you want tomeasure it.
Yep, um, we have found that wedon't typically like to measure
that very much, becausesometimes our best hook rate ads
have the worst performance?
Sure, because it's keeping thewrong people around yep right.
(30:02):
So like you have to be nuancedabout it.
Like, are you trying to catch abig fish or a small fish?
Or like, what type of fish areyou trying to catch?
Because they sometimes they eatdifferent things.
Yeah, and sometimes you don'twant certain people hooking on
your ads yeah so if you, if youhave the right hooks, like what
you're really measuring is like,how effective is it at creating
(30:23):
the action you want, which isgoing to be people who are
interested in your, your brand,and then buy?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, it's like how you can really measure three
different things right.
It's like how good is it atgetting people to stop?
There's your hook.
How good is it at catchingpeople's interest?
There's your hook.
How good is it catchingpeople's interest?
There's your click, and evenmaybe more so, like the link
click-through rate.
Yeah, and then how good is itat selling the product?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
and I would say link click-through rate.
If you want to look at top,some people say none of this
matters and like all you need toworry about are cpas.
Yep, which is neither here northere.
I don't even like really wantto get into that today, but we
like to say hey, like a good toplevel is link click through
(31:07):
rates when you're comparingagainst other ads and in like a
similar category.
Because link click through rateis the actual.
Hey, I'm clicking on the buynow or whatever the call to
action is Like they're actuallyclicking on the action, the
desired action.
Whether they take that or not isanother question, but that's
(31:29):
how you know.
Hey, this audience not only iswatching this ad.
If it's a video, a static, youknow you don't have the hook
rate, you're just going to belooking straight at link
click-through rates and costpers and all that.
But again, the only way to getthrough these and figure these
out is like if you test moreyeah and that's not just testing
(31:52):
.
To test, like don't just testeverything and anything out
there yeah, I was gonna be mynext and don't test like the
same and and I think a lot ofpeople get caught up on this,
which is lesson number one whenyou're testing ads is don't like
you're not amazon, like don'tsit there and like test a
different font, like fourdifferent fonts and like the
(32:14):
same title, sure, or like we'relike six different colors of
orange.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, like six different colors of orange.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, like just test different concepts out before
you test more granular detailsyeah.
So what I mean by by that is, ifwe have a static and say, hey,
we're gonna test for statics,what a lot of times what we like
to do is we say, hey, here's,here's the four statics.
What a lot of times what welike to do is we say, hey,
here's, here's the four statics,but here are the four headlines
(32:41):
that we're testing, right, sowe can say something like I
don't know what are we sellinglike shoes, yeah, hey, the
number one, shoes for running,right.
And then you can go like more alittle bit instead of uh, more
like feature or use case.
Then you could go moreemotional, which is, hey, the
number one, dad shoe, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Or the shoe that dads trust.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
So now we're, or the shoes thathelp mom, pregnant moms, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So now you're getting more into the benefits and
you're identifying your customerin the headline, like in the
actual H1.
Totally, you're filtering forwho you want to target Okay.
So, like number one runningshoes, like there's a lot of
runners Sure.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
And you can be talking to men, women, 18 year
olds.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes, A better headline might be that's going
to cause more emotion.
That we would probably test issomething more like hey, a
running shoe that doesn't suck.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Or a running shoe that lasts, or you know, like
now you're starting to cut likecater in on.
Hey, if I'm a running shoecompany and I'm selling running
shoes and I've done surveys andI know my customer, I know that
the three most important valuesfor them is that a running shoe
lasts right, that a running shoehas.
Let's just, let's just sayyou're dealing with it's
comfortable maybe an olderdemographic and arch support is
(34:03):
a big deal sure so it's likedurable arch support and then
comfort, in that order.
So we're going to take those andwe're going to test those in
the ads first and foremost likehey, comfort durability and arch
support.
Yeah, and then out of thosethree tests, we'll probably use
(34:24):
the same image in those three,just to figure out you don't
want too many variables in thatimagery, right, because yeah you
don't want to like, just testfive different if you go arch
support with a different imageof comfort, and comfort wins.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Was it comfort or was it?
The image was more compelling.
Yep, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
And now when you're testing these ads, you can do
one of two things you can eitheruse well, there's three ways of
doing it.
If you're using cost caps,which some people are advocating
a lot for right now, you canjust throw it all basically into
the same ad set.
Yeah, you can just throw it allbasically into the same ad set.
Yeah, there's an argumentsometimes for doing that, even
(35:01):
with a broad max conversion adset too, right?
So method one is you just throwin your variables.
We don't tend to like that justdepending on levels of spend.
I personally like using dynamiccreative ad sets where you can
(35:21):
test different ad copy, you cantest those different variations
of those ads, you can set acertain spend limit on it and
then you can get through testingreally fast, like, I mean, the
algorithm does a really good jobof figuring out which ones are
working the best, yep, so I likedynamic creative ad sets
oftentimes.
Or you can also just create likea small ad set where you're
(35:42):
where you're testing ads andthen migrating winners over to.
But you want to make sure thecosts that you're mitigating the
loss on that, because sometimesthere's false positives and
false negatives depending onyour business goals, sure, but
anyways, yeah.
So you can either just likethrow them in there and just
like let the algorithm do itsthing into your, in your
evergreen ad sets, or you canseparate it into a dynamic,
(36:05):
creative or just a regular adset and test those variations
out yourself and then generallyafter you, because, because,
obviously, if a brand's juststarting running ads or they're
just getting, you know, gettinggoing here, you kind of just
have to test a bunch of stuff,right, is what you're talking
about?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yep, now what?
What's your recommendation?
As as you start to learn, howare you documenting?
Or how should these guys, howshould people be documenting, to
be like, hey, you know whatComfort is, comfort wins over
our support all the time.
So are you putting that inthese like winter categories to
now say, okay, cool, let's testcomfort, but in video format or
let's test comfort with these 10different images.
(36:39):
It's the same headline, but nowwe're testing imagery.
Yep, you know, is it comfortwith a mom holding a kid?
You know to showcase like thatemotion of, is it comfort of an
elderly person who's Well, yeah,let's just say it's comfort for
a demographic.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Typically you're selling to 45 to 60 year olds or
whatever right like.
I'm assuming there's not a lotof 60 year olds that are still
like running if we're using thishypothetical example of a
running company.
Yeah, hey, we tested somestatics.
Statics are the easiest thingsto test because you can turn
them out a lot faster right, youcan create them that now you
(37:17):
have videos.
Let's say, you have a bunch ofvideos, you don't know what to
do.
You can then compile thosevideos into compilation ads or
even use ai videos and you canmix stock videos.
Right, you can do that to nowcreate hooks around an old
person I don't want to say anold person, but let's just say
like a 50 year old experiencingfoot pain after they ran, like
(37:40):
they're taking their shoe offwith foot pain.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Right.
So now you're creating thismoment where it's like hey did.
Does somebody identify withthis person?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And so here's the pain.
Now we resolve the pain.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right, or you can try the flip or the reverse of that
, which is more of hey, here'sthe good part, which is this
person feels good after they run, and maybe the headline or
whatever you're using, or thevoiceover says do you wish you
felt like this after you ran,and then you show the pain and
then you show the the resolutionthe resolution.
(38:12):
So yeah, essentially you canstart with statics test and then
you start grabbing that idea.
Okay, comfort's our winner.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
How does comfort translate into four different
new hooks or?
Three hooks on a video.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And again, the body of the video compilation is
generally going to stay the same, which is we always recommend,
like throw in some social proof,throw in some testimonials,
right Like you can do all that.
You can make it look like an ad, it can be ugly, you can throw
UGC into it.
Whatever it is, there's a,there's literally a thousand
(38:50):
ways to skin a cat, as they say.
Yep, speaking of a Chadwickhooligan from your show, of
Chadwick Hooligan from your show.
Nailed it Chadwick Thwitz,thwitz.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Thackery Binks.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Thackery Binks.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Very close.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
And, yeah, a thousand ways to skin a cat.
We have our processes, butthese are just some general
ideas.
So take your winning concept,turn it into video.
If you can't produce a wholevideo, go film some stuff
yourself.
You can go grab stock videos.
There's still ways to test andthen figure out what hooks are
working for your demographic.
(39:30):
Is it showing the pain first?
Is it showing the resolutionfirst?
Is it something that hasnothing to do with either of
those and it's just aninteresting visual?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yep and document it.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And document it?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, so that you can understand what the learnings
are.
You can go back six monthslater and retest something.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
So we like to document that and then we use
ChatGPT to help us create newideas as well.
So ChatGPT can help you in thisdocumentation and iteration
process.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Chat GPT and between chat GPT and surveying right,
like as we survey more customers.
It helps you get more ideas onthings you can test.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yes, because it'll also identify with the customers
, like, for example, we've seencustomers list their top four
reasons for buying, butsometimes number three is the
best hook, sure out of theirmotivation, sure yeah so that's
why it's important not to justtake number one like you got.
You got to just test and say,hey, visually.
(40:27):
So, for example, if we'retaking this hypothetical shoe
company and they say comfort,arch support, and then uh,
durability are their three mostimportant, but durability, I
think let's just say durabilitywas number one, right in our
first it was durability, archsupport and then comfort.
Durability might not be thatemotionally intriguing from a
(40:51):
visual standpoint.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, and and and durability is oftentimes like an
overplayed thing.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
That because you can mix durability with quality,
right, yes, everyone's, oh, highquality, high quality, best
shoe exactly yeah, so durability, even though that might be
their number one motivation, ifyou survey them, it also might
just not be that intriguing,yeah, or it might just be table
stakes like totally the mostimportant, but that's just what
they expect, so everyone'sexpecting, sure, so you can't
(41:21):
just take your number one andsay that's all we're testing.
Yep, so like that's why when wedid that example, it's almost
like I went straight to comfort,because comfort is already, in
my mind, the easiest thing tovisually demonstrate.
Sure, it's the mostdemonstrable of the three
motivations, because even inarch, support and comfort kind
of go one one together yeah, soarch support is going to be more
(41:46):
of like injury prevention,where the the comfort is going
to be more of like you feel goodwhile you're wearing it.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, okay, so, uh, so what?
What are some?
We've recently talked aboutthis with some clients of ours
or just people we've consultedwith.
We've talked a lot about hooks,like lately.
What are some categories anddifferent styles of hooks that
people can be testing and tryingLike?
For example, we had thisconversation with a brand who
(42:18):
was talking about how they likethey're very much and they're a
really big brand and they verymuch they're in the health world
.
They like to be more positive.
Hey, this is how you're goingto feel when you take our
products where we've seen kindof the opposite, that like in
the ad testing world, more ofthat fear based.
(42:40):
Hey, this is what will happento you if you don't.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Versus this will happen to you.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
if you do, tends to outperform the, the hell tends
to outperform the heaven a lotof times.
So give me some examples.
What are some good examples ofdifferent styles of hooks that
people can be testing and trying?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, the number one.
I mean, the number one thingthat we like to do is we like to
play off of this idea.
We, at our agency, we call itheaven or hell.
So are you trying to createlike a positive, aspirational
emotion in the hook, or are youtrying to create like a fear
based emotion, a fear of missingout?
(43:19):
Right, so, it depends on thebrand, but sometimes, in a
highly competitive market, thefear the fear based is often
going to and speaking ofhalloween, right, the fear base
is going to win.
Yeah, and fear isn't likeyou're scaring them, like you're
going to die, you know, but itis, it's.
(43:41):
It's a very quick, demonstrableway of showing like whatever
the pain point is that they'reexperiencing, rather than the
relief.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
You're showing the pain, because a lot of people
will identify with the pain.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Not necessarily the, necessarily the relief with a
quick snippet.
So a good example of that is,if you are a skincare company,
using hell is going to be like.
This is what your skin lookslike now.
Or if you don't use our product,which is maybe it's acne, maybe
it's blemishes, maybe it'swrinkles, whatever it is right.
(44:15):
It's like a quick before andafter.
Like this is what it looks likewith us, usually starting with
like the not great and thenshowing the great results.
That's always going to be thebetter.
Now, there are rules aroundthat with Facebook that you
can't do, sure sure.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Depending on health.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
But nonetheless that's just a good.
Can't do Sure.
Sure, Depending on health, yeah, but nonetheless that's just a
good idea.
Yeah, Heaven for sale.
So sometimes the aspirationalworks better.
So if you are a clothing brand,right, sometimes it's not going
to work to show like oh, youdon't look good wearing not our
(44:54):
stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be more of.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Hey, how do you imagine yourself, like, why are
you shopping?
Usually, people are shoppingfor clothes because they want to
feel a certain way in a certainmoment.
Right, they want to look acertain way.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
And that's where I think a lot of people miss the
mark when they're trying tocreate ads, is it's not just
looking a certain way, it'slooking away in a moment.
Yeah, so if you're selling um,let's say you're a men's
clothing company selling jeans,right, you got to think about,
like, what are the moments thatmen see themselves wearing those
(45:28):
jeans?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, Is it?
Oh, they actually want jeanscause they they're.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
They're working outside and they need something
that's going to be durable.
Is it?
Hey, they actually want jeansbecause they're working outside
and they need something that'sgoing to be durable, is it?
Hey, they want to look a littlenicer because jeans kind of you
know, they can fluctuatebetween dress up and dress down.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
So what are the ways that people envision themselves
and what are the moments, andthen you try to showcase those
moments and then they can seethemselves in those moments
while they're shopping forclothes, sure those moments and
then they can see themselves inthose moments while they're
shopping for clothes, sure?
Speaker 2 (45:56):
what are some other cool hook styles that and you
were before the podcast.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
We were talking about these different yeah, like one
of another, one's going to besocial proof as a hook.
Yeah, so as seen in shark tank,that's an easy one, right?
Or like as seen on over 5,000five-star reviews yeah, over
500,000 customers served or over2 million protein shakes sold,
or whatever.
It is Right yeah, yeah.
Like a big number showing thatpeople trust you is going to be
(46:23):
a really easy hook to use aswell.
Totally Now, again, if you're asmall company, you might not
have that social proof, yeah,which is why I think the heaven
and hell concept is just theeasiest way to start iterating
on your ads right now.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Especially if you're a little smaller.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, and then the emotional contrast is really
just important, because whenyou're thinking of heaven and
hell, your hook might be heaven,your hook might be hell, but
you're going to showcase theother part.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You're going to contrast it in the ad.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
If it's a video ad, if it's a static, you're not
really going to be contrastingthat Sure.
The contrast in a static isusually going to be something
clever with the wording.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Usually a straight image isn't going to do a whole
lot.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
But if you have a funny headline overlay on your
static, sometimes it cancontrast with the static itself.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
So, using wordplay, you can use a bad word with an
asterisk in it, right?
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Like maybe it's a really elegant shot of a woman
wearing a gown in a moonlitmeadow right or something, but
maybe the the headline sayssomething like classy as shit
right, yeah, yeah, there's likea juxtaposition there yeah, like
(47:51):
you create, you create acontrast.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
You're a little edgy, but this is classy Like edgy
and classy.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
So that's ways you can create contrast and statics.
But again, I think, start withheaven and hell, because heaven
and hell always has a contrast.
Right, like you have heaven,which is this glorious place,
right, and we're thinking ofthis in the abstract, not the
literal Sure yep, and then hellis like misery and like what you
don't want to happen or edgyright, so like, if you can
(48:20):
contrast, like that's how youdraw attention, is contrast?
yeah, I agree without contrastyou're just kind of bland yeah,
you just kind of fit in witheveryone else.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Any other off the top of your dome?
Speaker 1 (48:34):
good example hooks well, if people want to Sign up
for our newsletter and communitythere that we don't have yet.
We'll have it all outlined forhim there.
Yeah, no, but no, I think.
Yeah, there's other examples,but I think for the sake of time
and and conciseness.
(48:54):
So, yeah, there's otherexamples, but I think for the
sake of time and conciseness.
That's where you start.
Cool, because a lot of people,even big brands, miss that mark
all the time.
There's not contrast, it's justhere's my features or here's a
few benefits.
And that's a great place tostart, which is usually it's
going to be benefits overfeatures.
Yep, great place to start.
(49:17):
But now, how do you starthaving, start having, like you
said, more juxtapositions ormore contrast?
How do you start drawing?
Speaker 2 (49:21):
attention to things in a clever way.
Yep, yep, I think the big thingthat I want to maybe just like
reiterate before we close hereis um, if you're talking about
more or less creative, more isalways going to be the side to
err on.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
We've seen it, yeah because you're not always going
to use every piece of creativeeither Totally, but if you have
the creative engine going, it'sa lot easier to get through hard
spots.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Yeah, and Meta's doing such a good job with their
algorithm too.
A lot of people think that themore the more.
Now, obviously, if you're onlyspending two to five hundred
dollars a day and you've got onehundred and fifty ads in there,
that's a different story,because it's going to be
challenging to allocate budgetto all one hundred and fifty of
those Assets.
(50:11):
But so there is a limit assets.
But so there there is a limit,obviously.
But for the most part, metadoes such a great job at making
sure that it's testing thiscreative and if it's not hitting
those benchmarks you've set,it's going to push it aside.
So you might be spending fiftythousand dollars a month, or a
hundred thousand dollars a monthand two ads 10 ads might only
(50:35):
have $25 each of that hundred,you know.
So it's like you.
You might see a bad performingad, but it's like when you go
look at the spend, it's not.
It's not sucking up a budget toactually make a difference, not
not to say that that $25 thatit used on it isn't still your
money, but there's learningsfrom it, right?
You, instead of being like, ohshoot, we should take this down.
(50:58):
It's what?
Why didn't this ad perform?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
yeah, it's just going back to the Pareto principle,
80-20 rule yep, I mean, wealready know that you're always
going to have 20 percent of yourads are probably going to
generate 80 percent or more ofyour your revenue and profits.
Yeah, like the 80 percent ormore of your your revenue and
profits yeah like the 80 20 ruleis undefeated.
It's everywhere and we talkabout it in everything all the
time because it is undefeated.
(51:23):
Same thing with your ads.
Yes, in the end, 20 percent ofyour ads will be what generate
almost all of your revenue.
The problem is, those adsaren't always relevant, and so
if you don't always have alittle new ad churning machine,
(51:44):
then a lot of times we seecompanies get caught flat-footed
and whatever the algorithmchanges or the taste changes or
the season changes or whatever,whatever it is that changes, and
they're stuck thinking we, ohwell, we had our winners, yeah,
and now you don't anymore?
Yeah, totally.
And it's really hard to startchurning that engine while
(52:06):
you're losing, because then ohwell, the defense yeah.
Well, we don't, we can't affordto lose, right?
It's like, well, you kind ofhave to lose when you're
figuring out what's working.
Yeah, totally so.
Anyways, to recap, please, whatwe like to do is you go and,
when you're starting youriteration process, start with
(52:30):
your three main motivators ofyour customers.
Right, filter those through theheaven and hell concept as you
create statics and videos.
What's the emotional contrastand what are some hooks you can
start testing?
Start testing them out in thestructure which is usually going
to be an ad set.
You can do a dynamic creative adset or just a regular ad set.
(52:52):
Put spend limits.
A dynamic, creative ad set orjust a regular ad set?
Put spend limits.
Don't let it go crazy, butsometimes they work so well you
just release.
Sometimes that ad set ends upbeing your winning ad set
anyways just because of the newads.
But keep it structured, keep itsimple, let it run.
Don't turn it off if it's notworking in three days.
Let it run for 14 days,sometimes seven days.
(53:15):
Get enough data in there at alow budget that you can say this
worked or didn't work.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Okay, and before you decide it didn't work, look at
the metrics.
Which is going to be your linkclick-through rates, your top
line metrics, your CPAs.
Sometimes you're going to haveawesome link click-through rates
, but maybe it's just the wrongoffer.
Sometimes you're going to haveawesome link click-through rates
, but maybe it's just the wrongoffer.
Yeah, so don't just throw an adaway because you have really
high engagement but lowconversions.
(53:43):
Think about it and say, well,are we just sending them to the
wrong experience?
Sure, do we not have the rightoffer?
Is it the wrong land?
Like, did we mix up the landingpages?
Are we sending them to acollection page or to a product
page?
Yeah, so sometimes it's not thead, it's just the experience.
So, yep, then analyze theexperience, but totally look at
(54:05):
your link click through rates todetermine if it's a high
engagement ad.
It's an easy way.
Yes, you can use hook hookthrough rates on the videos, but
but that doesn't alwaystranslate to doesn't always
translate.
Yeah, because sometimes you wanta certain person like you want
a certain amount of people notengaging totally yeah, there's
certain demographics that don'tbuy, but love watching things
(54:30):
yeah, usually they're 55 andolder.
Very, very true If you knowyour meta demographics.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yes, All right.
Well, thank you everybody fortuning in and we'll see you guys
next week.
Yeah, Elections.
Yeah, good luck.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
podcast.
Please go rate.
And Marketer podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
(54:59):
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go, follow meand get in touch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
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