November 26, 2024 • 48 mins
Unlock the secrets to brand success in a saturated market with our latest episode of the Unstoppable Marketer Podcast. What if exclusivity could be the game-changer your brand needs? We're diving into the world of athleisure, and discussing how Vuori has managed to shake things up with an impressive $800 million fundraising milestone. With the return of in-person community activities, we also explore why traditional social media tactics might not be enough to build lasting brand loyalty.
Join us as we dissect the dynamic strategies of athleisure brands like Vuori and Alo, who are capturing market share from giants like Lululemon. Discover how these brands leverage direct-to-consumer sales and strategic retail partnerships, and why brand equity is pivotal even for companies experiencing financial losses. We also spotlight the importance of crafting your brand's niche, using examples like True Classic T's, to understand the power of targeted messaging and exclusive offerings.
Ready to optimize your Black Friday strategies? Our episode is packed with actionable insights and tips to ensure your sales campaigns are seamless across all platforms. From preparing your Shopify store to syncing discounts with social media channels, we've got you covered with strategies to maximize your holiday sales. Whether it's through pricing exclusivity or community-building efforts, learn how to effectively target and capture your market to stand out in the crowded landscape of modern marketing.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You have to be exclusive.
I know we want to be inclusive,but as a marketer you have to
think in exclusive ways.
And I'm not saying todiscriminate.
What I'm saying is you justhave to think about hey, do I
want any guy wearing my stuff?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You get into these saturated markets, and one of
the best ways to make it feellike it's less saturated is to
identify who that person is.
Yo, what's going on oneverybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast, with me, as
always, my co-host, markGoldhart.
Mark Goldhart, how are youdoing today?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Doing good Well swell .
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, woke up to the first snow on the street today,
like it was stuck to the streetdid yeah at least at my house,
was that at your house too?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
yeah, it was very wintry this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, on the morning walk, but then it was like blue
skies by the time I got here.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, it was blue skies.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So, yeah, it was very blue bird day I don't know if
any of the ski resorts are openno, they I think, uh, um, I
think this the one, the earliestone opens like the 26th or
something like that right afterthanksgiving that's right before
thanksgiving.
I think we're okay.
(01:19):
So, if you're listening to thisright now, it is black friday,
is this week.
If you're listening to this,this will drop and, yeah, you
are going into Black Friday.
You are two days away to threedays away from Thanksgiving,
because it's no, no, two days.
Tuesday, wednesday, thursday,tuesday, wednesday, thursday
three days, yeah yes, you starton Thursday night three days
(01:41):
away from meta bugs higher cpms.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Google bugs higher conversion rates, though yeah,
higher conversion rates buyingbehavior is up, we, we, godspeed
.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We wish you the best it was the best of times it was
the worst of times you're gonnahave high cpms, but you will
have higher conversion rates.
Your conversion rates will behigh.
Do you know what that line'sfrom uh, sing the song that
reminded me of the good times isthat it it is so not it oh, but
(02:20):
do you know what I was thinking?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
it was yeah, you're thinking of the Chubba Wonky
song.
Chumbawumba, chumbawumba.
Yeah, johnny boy.
Yeah, that's a great song.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Johnny boy, I can't not love him.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Kids will never know how great it was to just hear a
song on the radio that slapped.
It's the only way to find a newsong or your older brother or
sister like brought home a cd oh, I mean, if you go even further
back.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Do you remember the box?
Did you ever watch the box?
The tv show, the program yeah,it was called the box, like the
channel, the channel.
It was called the box, channel58 for me, but it only it was
just music videos live, for.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I feel like it was like a secret channel that we
discovered and it was on formaybe a year and then it
disappeared.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I can't confirm or deny that.
But what the box was is, it wasessentially like TRL without
Carson Daly, so TRL was MTV,where they would play music
videos, but then Carson Dalywould get on and he would like
talk about like oh, that's theSpice Girls or oh, that's NSYNC,
you know, but it was just musicvideos straight.
But what you could do is it waslike.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
it was like what's your first memory of the music
video on it?
What music video was it?
Devil Went Down to Georgia.
Same, really, I'm not kidding.
I was right about to say theDevil Went Down to Georgia was
the first thing I saw on that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Or Power man 5000.
Georgia was the first thing Isaw on that.
Or power man 5,000.
No one will ever remember that,yeah, but the box was um, the
box was if for those of you whodon't understand, it was like a
jukebox, you know how like you'dgo to.
If you could go to a bar at ajukebox and you put money in,
you say a nine, and it wouldplay that song you could call in
(04:05):
.
Oh is that how it worked?
It was like star six, seven orsomething like that, and then
they would just and it wouldbill your phone company.
So, like our parents would loseit on us, cause it'd be like
three or four bucks a song andwe'd call in like 10 times and
you just sit and wait.
Like you didn't have a queue,you would.
You didn't have a queue, youwould.
You didn't know what you whereyou were at in the queue.
(04:26):
So we would just watch it forlike two hours and just wait for
our song.
We're like, oh, peaches, thatwas like one that we'd always do
, the peaches song.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
President of the United States or or.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Uh, we do like a lot of like third eye blind you like
third eye blind?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
you know you get some third eye blind, some peaches
yeah, I remember peaches.
I remember obviously devil wentdown georgia.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I don't know who sings that, I don't know he was
looking for a job or, uh, Ican't remember I don't think
it's any.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I think it was like a one-hit wonder.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It was awesome the music video is epic.
The box, yeah, the box.
So, uh, okay, so let's uh.
In other news, uh, bigannouncement this week was made
by viory, so viory just raisedanother, I believe, 800 million
at a valuation of 5.5 billiondollars.
(05:21):
Billion with a B Fury, theactive wear company you call
athleisure active wear companyathleisure which is very
interesting, because I don'tknow.
(05:41):
I'm trying to think where I wantto take this, but I want to
break it down just because.
So, if you restarted, I want tosay it was.
Did we say 2015?
Is that we looked up, or was it2016?
It was 2015 2015.
So from 2015 to 2017 they weredoing they only did 1 million In
DTC revenue.
So by year 2 they were doing amillion a year.
(06:02):
By year 3, 2018 that's whenthey launched women's, because
they started with men's shorts,I believe like it was just that
was their one product was men'sshorts.
They went into the women'sspace and went from a million to
30 million.
Now I'm sure they got someinvestment at that time too.
(06:25):
I, you don't.
You don't generally just gofrom a million to 30 million if
your product is not dramaticallydifferent and if you think
about it, their product.
You know, lulu lulu lemon wasthe kind of poster child of yuri
yeah, yeah not much different Idon't want to.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Everyone has these opinions about all these
athleisure brands, but yeah,there's nothing that
dramatically different what isyour athleisure brand?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
athletic brand, do you have one that you
particularly subscribe to?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
no, no, I do not.
I have a pair of Lululemonshorts.
I have a pair of Viore shorts.
I have Nike shorts.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Just everything.
And whatever Christmas giftyou're getting.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Basically yeah, yeah, no, I'm not loyal at all to
athletic brands.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I have fallen into the Viore trap and we're pretty,
we're very loyal.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That's because you like pastels colors.
They're more pastelly.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And I really like their exercise shirts.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Blue Lemon seems to be a little bit more.
Their exercise shirts hold upNow.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
they're full of probably poisonous chemicals,
but we can talk about that later.
So okay, chemicals, but we cantalk about that later, so okay.
So what did viore do to go from, to go from a million to 30
million, to now?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
we did the math it's like 500 to 600.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
We did the math just and this, guys, so we have tools
where we can see how muchtraffic a brand's getting and
and you can put some averageslike okay, we've been in that,
we we've worked with enoughclothing brands when their price
point like it seems like theiraverage price point is probably
like 90 bucks, I would imagineif their aov is probably
hovering around 130 to?
160.
(08:13):
Yeah.
So average conversion rate isbetween what a percent and a
half to two and a half percentlike is what most brands
probably, yeah, fall under.
So I gave them a two percentconversion rate.
I gave them $150 AOV, whichmeans that from a direct
consumer perspective, with howmuch monitored traffic our tools
are sharing with us, they'rebringing in around $500 to $550
(08:38):
million a year on D2C alone.
And then with some basicRetail's hard Retail's, really
hard and then with some likebasic uh retail retail's hard
retail's really hard, but withsome basic like it's really hard
to guess because we could beoff by.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We could literally be off by 80.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yes, we could like but who knows?
What we're getting.
They have about 50 stores.
Their goal is to open 100, Ithink, by end of 2025.
About 100 million is what we'reguessing Based off of chat GPT.
But that's not counting Amazon,that's not counting Amazon,
(09:18):
it's not counting theirpartnerships with Nordstrom
their partnerships with everyDick's Shields sporting goods
store.
So you, you know, maybe it'sanother 100 to 200 million.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So I can't believe dicks is still called dicks yeah
, yeah, I mean so.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So they're probably, they're probably sorry, but
they're probably annual revenueof, let's say, between 700, 700
million, million and a billion,I think is probably a fair yes,
like I and their valuation was5.5.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
5.5.
Yep, so they're not quitegetting a you know what is that?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's between a six and a seven multiple, depending
on where they're at.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, based off the valuations I've seen, that seems
really high, so we're probablywrong.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But but hold up, you're right, but we're not
dealing with billion like we'renot dealing with billion dollar
companies Like.
Their brand is like I think thevalue brand equity.
Exactly.
Cause that's true, cause I haveheard that, uh, that, uh, so
liquid death didn't they getlike?
I think the last valuation thatthey raised at was like 800
(10:29):
million.
Does that sound familiar?
no we had a discussion, probablylike a year and a half ago,
about this yeah, I can'tremember you have to go to the
vault, but I think they werelike 800 million I think they're
verging on a billion, so thatsounds about right and my buddy,
our buddy Brody yes he Investsin a lot of these companies and
(10:50):
he worked with somebody like.
His investor Brought thatliquid death portfolio to him
and they were still in the redbut valued at 800 million
Because of brand equity well,yeah, also, projections aren't.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Valuations are funny, right, because they're not just
a multiple.
Sometimes it's it's also like arun rate and you know there's
different equations that go intoit.
Yeah, but nonetheless, yeah,that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah so what is a company like that who, like I
said, you've got, you've gotlululemon, who had the big
takeoff, like in what?
Probably around?
Like 2014, 2015, like it'sprobably when they were really
big, like remember, when you andI got the discount from the kid
(11:43):
, they took off?
And that was probably 2016 whenwe got like our 30% off and we
bought like seven pairs of pants, each From 2010 to 2016 was
like kind of Lululemons.
I'd probably say even more tolike 2020.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Well, I'm just talking about, like, their
exponential growth.
Yeah, because they were an 80sbrand.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Like I think they started in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, I have no idea about their backstory.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I read the founder's book and I'm pretty sure he said
they were kind of like a NikeVery long.
Nike started in what the 70s,and then, all of a sudden, they
were huge when Michael Jordantook them on Right, which was in
the oh 98.
Okay, so not the 80s 98.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
The 90s.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, late 90s.
So I think that Lululemon'sheyday.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's a millennial brand.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I would guess Lululemon's heyday was probably
2014 to 2021, if I had to bet.
And then you had Aloe that camein and Viore that took up a lot
of market share.
So I think one of the reasonswhy Viore was able to capitalize
is Lulu became so big andpopular and sometimes, when you
(12:54):
become so big, people stopwanting it right, because
everyone's wearing it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Well, Allo's kind of new to the show.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, Allo's probably new.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
The same way viore is I'd say viore is a little more
of like, a second mover alongwith like, because you had the
men's brands like cuts and roan.
Viore started off heavy on themen's side and then went heavy
into the women's space.
Yeah, right, because you saidthey were doing 1 million and
they opened appointments andwent to yeah, 30 million a year.
(13:25):
Yeah, I would guess they'dprobably sell more women's, but
I don't know and they have avery intense collaboration
strategy, affiliate strategy howmany partnerships do they do a
year?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
yeah, so they do around 12 000 by 2024.
You know, as of right now theyhave 12 000 partnerships and
collaborations and I think whatthey did different than, like a
lululemon I think lululemon werereally big into retail, but
they just went super deep likethat.
So viore's viore, uh, hit thesame time that nIL stuff hit and
(14:03):
they went and found everycollege athlete who had
following.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
They started paying them.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And just yeah, exactly, just started shoveling
Emerging market, Shoveling thosethat 700 million that they had
raised, or 600 million that theyhad raised back in 2021.
Just because, when did NILstart?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Two years ago right 2022.
2022?
Yeah, so they had all thatmoney.
I want to say maybe 21, but2022, I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Notably, the person that they landed was Livvy Dunn,
who had like 3 millionfollowers on Instagram and 7
plus million, who at the time,if I remember right when I read
that she had the most followersof any collegiate athlete
remember right when I read thatshe was the high, had the most
followers of any collegiateathlete yeah, she set the record
for the most nil revenue.
Oh, I'm sure an athlete, I'msure I'm not mistaken yeah, she
(14:53):
was for those of you, she wasthe lsu gymnast, yeah, and I
don't know what she does now.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I don't know if she's like on team usa or I just
remember the the news story whenshe, when lsu, was at the
university of utah for a gymnastgymnastic meet.
Okay, I don't know, who is it?
What do you call that agymnastic meet?
I think so.
Yeah, um, there was a newsstory about like a thousand high
(15:17):
school boys like waited for herto leave the stadium.
Oh, serious, like yeah, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, she got a couple hundred, like it was a
bunch of people like waiting toget her autograph she got
massive celebrity status yeah,she's dating she's dating the
guy who just won rookie of theyear, uh, or who'd won rookie of
the year for football the nfl?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
yeah, I think I don't even know who that is.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I can't remember what his name is.
Yeah, I just saw a video of himlike winning it and he like she
was more excited than he was.
Oh yeah, he was just kind oflike and she was like ecstatic
about it.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I have to look it up, but anyways, yeah, I think so.
I think how do you, how do yougo there?
What's like, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
the question is, how do you stand out in a?
I mean, think about likeathleisure.
Lululemon started theathleisure like movement where
women were like, hey, I can justwear my leggings as clothes,
not just when I do yoga and workout, I, I'm just gonna wear
them to soccer practice, I'mgonna wear them on the plane,
I'm gonna wear them everywhere.
Right, so they start thismovement.
(16:16):
Lulu paves it.
This happens all the time wheresomebody paves of movement and
then you have other brands thatcapitalize, but it's a super
saturated market and so we talkto people all the time.
In our business where we'reworking with, you know, we have,
we have a marketing agency andwe're working with if I had a
guess, I would probably say one,two, three, we probably have
(16:40):
five or six clients who are invery, very heavily saturated
markets, and we have a jewelrybusiness that is a very heavily
saturated market.
So how do you stand out?
Right, you could, you can't.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
The first, yeah yeah, number one is you can go,
because this is what Lululemondid.
So, lululemon, you're competingagainst Nike and adidas.
Lululemon went exclusive.
So in the early days it washard to find certain colors.
They would only do certaincolors for certain releases and
(17:15):
then they would never have thatcolor again.
So there was this mad dash by alot of people to try to get a
certain color so they would havethis exclusivity to their
product, right?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
yep, so, and they did a lot of retail back in the day
they did a ton of retail and alot of community stuff a lot of
community stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So what they would do if, if, uh, if, you're
unfamiliar is they would sponsordance teachers and gym teachers
, and so if you were a teacher,you could go in and get a
significant discount discount towear your stuff in front of
your class when you say ateacher, you mean like, not like
a educator no, I'm saying likea gym instructor.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
An instructor, yeah, like my wife, yeah, dance
teacher, my wife got her fitnessinstructor license yes and was
able to get it.
I think your wife got itbecause she teaches dance.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So they wanted they had this kind of guerrilla
tactic of exclusivity, but thenthey would invite people in that
had influence in thecommunities to wear that
exclusive stuff and then peopleyou know wouldn't want yeah,
you'd get like 20 off and theyweren't affiliates, they didn't
get paid.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It was literally just like hey, you want 20 off.
We never do discounts.
You want 20?
Yeah, you want a discount,because they never did discounts
and so that they that's whatpumped them up yeah, now you'd
get a really good discount now,if you already did that, but
much bigger, like they, theywould offer, like they offer
like 40 off.
So they doubled it I don't knowyeah I do know, yeah, like they
(18:52):
doubled it and and then theytook it a step further and said
we don't just want all thoselike community people who might
not have following or whatever.
They're just gonna be more wordof mouth people.
Let's go find bigger people totalk about us too.
Right, where?
I don't I, I don't recalllululemon doing that.
Lululemon didn't.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I mean I'm sure they did it's hard to say because
they're 2012 to 2016.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
18 but I was pretty dear.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
He started growing post that yeah, yeah, but
nonetheless it's like step oneis exclusivity helps you stand
out.
So I think a lot of people arescared to go exclusive because
you're narrowing your audience.
But tesla also went exclusive.
So if you look at thesecompanies that have grown over
(19:41):
time, right now owning a teslais not really a huge status
symbol like it used to be.
I mean, they're not cheap cars,but they're really not that
expensive anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
In comparison, two, three years ago, they were very
much a status symbol yeah, orI'd say three.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, even two years ago probably, even though prices
started coming down.
But they started out onlyselling roadsters to rich people
and there's like some economyof scale here and that was their
long-term plan.
They sold these really fast,expensive cars and now they've
moved into more of a everydaycar, yeah.
(20:16):
So a model 3 and a y are greatcar options for just like your
regular, yeah, middle classamerican, like they're not that
crazy.
I mean, they're literally thesame price as buying like a
toyota.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, I think the average car price now is like 48
000 which is a y and you canget a y or a three for that or
less yes.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
So exclusivity you start exclusive because your
profit's always going to bebetter and then you you move
into more of like a broaderapproach.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So that's one way to stick out, is if you want to
become more exclusive and you'renot trying to be for everyone
and ways you can do do theexclusivity is well, one with
price, if you don't want to becheap yeah, you, you said one
which was drops that, sell outthat is very exclusive product
drops and price and price isanother one, and viorey for sure
(21:08):
stepped up on the price likethey elevated their price.
It was very similar tolululemon, but it was cheaper.
It was more expensive than nikeand the adidas and it was much
more expensive than a nike andadidas your everyday wear.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, lululemon, back then it was more expensive than
nike and the adidas and it wasmuch more expensive than a nike
and adidas your everyday wearyeah, lulu lemon.
Back then it was like 110, 20bucks for joggers yep like we're
talking in 2016 15 14 pricesthat's a lot yeah, for sure I I
wonder what their prices are.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Now I want to check yeah, so, yeah, I like it.
I think exclusivity is issomething that can help you
stand out in a very crowdedmarket, right, um, I think the
other thing, uh and we've kindof alluded to this already is
people you know sometimes youcan just outspend people in ads,
um, like if you've got, ifyou've raised capital, you can
(21:55):
do that.
But I'm guessing the majorityof people who are listening to
this podcast that's not veryhelpful for them because they
probably don't have mil,hundreds of thousands of dollars
and millions of dollars tooutspend their competition.
So if the key, one of the keysto selling so Mark and I talk
about this- all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
130 bucks.
They're joggers now.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So they've, gone up like 20 bucks or so, yeah, which
isn't that much considering inthe last six seven years.
Yeah, so the other, the otherthing is, uh, like mark and I
talk about this all the time ifyou want to grow your business,
you've either got to get moretraffic, you got to find ways to
increase your conversion rate,you got to find ways to increase
the average order value, youhave to find ways to get your
returning customers to come backmore frequently.
And so, if your E is going froma million dollars to $30
(22:42):
million, and then from $30million in 2018 to now, what we
just talked about, which seemslike it may be somewhere around
the billion you know, north of abillion um annual revenue, you
have to get yes, you can, canspend money, but if you're
listening to this podcast, youdon't have all that money.
You have to have other peopletalk about you.
(23:04):
Right, you need borroweddistribution, is what I like to
call it, and it's not just hey,it's not the old school model of
hey, hey, here's $8,000.
Influencer has 5 millionfollowers, or $10,000.
Will you post about us?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, and do you want slow growth or fast growth too?
Yeah, that's the question.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Because you don't have to grow the way Viore did.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And just so everyone knows I just looked it up
Lululemon's worth close to $40billion.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah knows, I just looked it up lululemon's worth
close to 40 billion.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, which makes sense, right?
They're not even close to, Ithink they're publicly traded.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Now right, I have no idea, but probably but they're,
they're.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
They're worth close to 40 billion.
They were founded in 98.
That's still fast growth.
That's incredible growth.
That's a giant company.
Their earnings calls are stillgoing up too, like they're not
slowing down yeah they're goingup, but it took them a while.
Yeah, and that gorilla approachthat they took, where I mean
(24:08):
maybe it's just because that'swhat it was back in the day like
social media wasn't kind ofwhat it is now.
Yeah, I mean, the instagramboom started happening in 2014
is when it came on to the sceneas like the main social channel.
But they worked withcommunities and did community
(24:29):
building like real communityoutreach, and because of that,
I'm sure they have a ton ofbrand loyalists that have stuck
around for a really long time.
Yeah, yeah, for sure where noone does that anymore.
Everyone just goes straight toInstagram Like they don't do any
real life, reach out, theydon't build communities in the
same way You're starting to seeit more and more right.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Like, did we talk about this when you asked?
Was it last week where you saidwhat's a trend that you're
going to see for 2025?
Like, what should we expect?
Remember, when you asked methis question, did we talk about
in real life stuff?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Okay, maybe I just created a tick talk about it,
but I think that that's a huge,that's type of stuff is coming
back.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
What is cause?
The running clubs?
Or the mommy like uh?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I see A lot of like mommy walk clubs.
So it's the moms who havebabies who are In their house
all day.
You're seeing a lot of brandswho are starting to say hey,
we're a motherhood brand.
If you're in Chicago EveryMonday, we get our strollers and
we Walk.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yes, Because, from a High vantage point, I think
sometimes we forget how weirdCOVID was and how much it messed
with people's psyches.
Yeah, I don't think we're stilldone looking at what the
overall long-term effects are ofthat.
Yeah, not only on adults, but Imean there's kids and teenagers
(25:53):
Like I think that's why.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, I think we think about it more on what's
happened with the kids andteenagers and less about how
it's impacted us, for sure, justbecause of education, right.
Cause you and me talk aboutthis all the time.
Like we have, we're based inUtah and half of our clients are
in Utah and the other half arescattered throughout the United
States.
And we, like, we got a clientduring COVID in Utah and we
(26:20):
didn't meet them until last yearand they they're like you know,
you're like 10 minutes I'm 10minutes away.
I'm like 30 minutes from themand and we were just like what
are we doing like?
you get.
We got so like caught up in, oh, zoom Slack, which we're big
believers in, oh, huge yeah,like we were able to get so much
(26:43):
done.
But all of a sudden and whatwas funny is I didn't even see
him Like when I first met him,it wasn't at like our request,
like hey, we should go to lunch.
I was at like an event and hewas like at this dinner event
and him and I were like what,how is this the first time we've
ever met in person, you know,and since then we've now met and
we try to do that more oftenwith clients, but, yeah, even
(27:04):
like adults, we've even gottencaught up in that so much,
whereas, like somebody lives 10minutes away but so much easier
to be on a Zoom.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, like people matter and like human
relationships matter, and as andas a brand, one of the ways to
build brand loyalty is to fosteror to help accelerate those
types of relationships yeah,yeah, I mean it's, it's like uh
like what lululemon did.
They didn't create thoserelationships between students
(27:32):
and teachers.
They were just saying, hey,let's sponsor these people in a
way so that, hey, they're in adance class, like they're going
to be more likely, or they're ina cycling class.
They love what their teacher'swearing, cause they're all
looking at them, they'reinstructor.
Well, let's, let's throw thaton.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Well, they would go do a lot of those in real life
stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And they would do little sponsored events.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
They'd go and start yoga classes and host yoga stuff
.
And I think what a lot ofpeople forget is not not to get
religious, but like but you'regoing to get religious, but I'm
going to slightly, I am, I'm areligious guy, okay, but like,
if you, if like in Christiantext, it's all about the one,
(28:17):
right?
Like that's what they focus on.
I was like, hey, like, don'tjust think of a hundred people
there, look at individual people, like that's what it's all
about.
You know, and I thinkoftentimes in business, like we,
we cast the wide net because wewant everyone and and the one
is too much work, right?
(28:38):
So in real life, what I mean bythat is if you have a customer
based of 50,000 people acrossthe United States and a hundred
of them are in Salt Lake city orSan Diego or Carlsbad or
whatever, a hundred of your50,000 is the one.
It doesn't seem like a lotenough to to make a difference.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, and that, and going to the one is a good
reason why you should build apersona, because you can't talk
to a hundred thousand people,but you can't talk to one person
that will relate to a hundredthousand people.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
So so I think doing these things and that's what,
that's what lululemon did reallybig is they.
They had, like it is, to do thein real life stuff.
It is a lot of work, you haveto have a lot of people you, it
requires a lot of your time itis a lot of work, but what was
their?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
my sister-in-law worked there back in the early
days, so I remember like thishuge comeuppance of lululemon,
right yeah, and she worked atone of their retail stores.
But what was the ethos Like?
Who was the persona OfLululemon?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Um, I would probably say Um.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
A mom, cause the owner talks about it.
Yeah, remember he said hedidn't want certain people
wearing their stuff.
Yes, a mom, because the ownertalks about it.
Yeah, remember he said hedidn't want certain people
wearing their stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yes, yeah, I mean it was a fit mom, Essentially.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Not even like.
I wouldn't even say mom, it wasjust fit women.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I don't know, I think it was very much not the
20-year-old, I think it was morelike the 30 year old
aspirational 30 year old, whichgenerally is going to be a
mother yeah, yeah, but theynever had mom stuff yeah, you're
not pregnant women, or you know?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
it was yeah, yeah, no , no, yeah.
So it was we want fit women,yeah, period, like they were
exclusive, like they did notwant certain body types, yeah,
and they got in trouble for this, I think in 2000 oh, yeah, yeah
, I mean everyone 20 like oncethe body chip.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Uh, the founder's name is chip something, but yeah
, he gets like a ton of heatlike they put they.
They toss him in the samecategory.
We used to toss him in the samecategory as the Abercrombie guy
.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
The Abercrombie guy.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
But now he's like sex trafficker.
So he's what?
Oh yeah, abercrombie guy, Ithink so.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, I mean he's like in some really, really deep
stuff, so I don't think he'snow in that.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well, I never wore Abercrombie, so I did a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
My mom loved it.
My mom loved it.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Buy it for me I remember going in the store and
just wanting to pass out becauseof all the perfume.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, I will say this so still to this day fierce by
Abercrombie is one of the bestsmelling colognes ever.
My dad still wears it.
I was wearing that in like ohfive and my dad still wears that
.
It's like it was like fierce orAquadesia.
Remember Aquadesia 05?
Speaker 1 (31:39):
and my dad still wears that.
It's like it was like fierce oraqua dejo.
Remember aqua dejo.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
So anytime, I do remember aqua dejo did you buy
that 10 years ago and you'restill just 20 years ago and
you're still just using it?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
there's no way.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
People still use aqua , dejo I smell it every now and
then, really, yeah, like it'slike a blast from the past,
because I guarantee if, ifgrayson was wearing it right now
, you'd be be like Every juniorhigh boy was testing out
Aquadesio.
Oh, yeah, Well, you were sexyman because it was like a low
price here, Like Aquadesio waslike 15.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
There were some rumors about it too.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah there were some rumors that it would help your
game Pheromones.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
It never worked for me.
So, of course, like a bunch ofloser junior high boys are the
ones wearing it.
Yeah, anyways, but anyways,yeah they were very exclusive in
their persona.
So, if you want to start fromthe beginning, the outreach and
the community building they didwas not like, yes, it was nice
and it was great, but they werevery strict about who they
(32:41):
wanted wearing their stuff.
That's why they went toinstructors Like they didn't
want just anyone wearing theirstuff.
They wanted people that otherslooked up to in a fitness way.
Yeah, period, yep, so veryexclusive.
And you have to be exclusive.
I know we want to be inclusiveall the time, but as a marketer,
(33:05):
you have to think in exclusiveways.
And I'm not saying todiscriminate, sure.
What I'm saying is you justhave to think about hey, if I'm
in clothing, let's say I'm amen's clothing brand, yeah, do I
want any guy wearing my stuff?
And the question is true.
Classic tees is a good exampleof like the antithesis of this
(33:28):
theory, because they went foreverybody but you can go big
right if you like.
Yes yeah, and they went foreverybody.
Yeah, but in a way I there, I,they went broad, but I would
actually argue that it wasn'texclusive in the way of oh,
we're an exclusive brand, butit's like they were only for men
.
Well, it was men period, theirtheir messaging was broad.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And their messaging was broad but specific.
But it was meant for dad bod.
Yes, right, right.
So it wasn't Like.
So, even though like theirmessaging was, anyone can wear
us.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It was the anti-Lululemon messaging.
It was.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, it was like hey , these either look too tight on
you if you're wearing aLululemon and you can see your
Thickness, yep or you're wearingsomething so big from TJ Maxx
that doesn't have a fit, and soit just looks like you're
wearing a bag.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Like we're gonna come in so they, they, they targeted
the dad bod a hundred percentyes, and that's what I want to
say is like it's Inclusive butalso exclusive, because there's
a lot of guys that look at trueclassic tees and they're like no
.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I've never bought one ever and I don't like.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I don't like because they don't identify with that
brand, like if you're a superfit dude, chances are you've
never bought one yeah, chancesare.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
If you're a super fit dude and you're looking at true
classics versus cuts, what areyou buying?
You're probably buying cuts?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
yeah, for sure.
That's my argument at least.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
But if you're just a guy who's like, or a viewer, or
you know, like yeah and guesswhat?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I'm not saying it's good or bad either way.
Sure, we're just analyzing,yeah, and hypothesizing, yep.
But if you're just an averagedude, you know you're busy,
you're not into fitness, whichis fine, but like you know
you're okay shape, but like yougot a dad bod, good for you.
Yeah, salute true to classicteeth comes to your rescue and
(35:15):
it makes you look like oh and ashirt that, a t-shirt that
actually looks good on yeah,makes me look like I'm a little
more trim yeah yeah, I, I likewhat, I like where the
conversation's going is becausevery specific we're talking
about very saturated t-shirts,very saturated.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Everyone sells a t-shirt, right every clothing
brand, athletic wear.
We talk jewelry.
You can talk, uh like um liquidsupplements, water, right, very
saturated things, and I thinkwhere the full circle's coming
around is is you.
You can be very, um, you can bein a very saturated market, but
(35:52):
if you find your person, youfind your group of people and
who are they true classics, dadbob, dad bod, and then you only
talk to them.
Yep, exactly, abercrombie andvich was only pretty high
schoolers, right?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
pretty people, you know which makes sense if he's a
sex yeah, who's the other one?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
there's a, there's a.
There's a women's brand calledbrandy melville and if I recall,
they only have like up to sizetwo really yeah, so they like
they are I'm looking at themright now very and and yeah,
they, I mean they've they've hadsome documentaries about them
and they've had some very like.
They're very much in the mediaso they're the small girl brand
(36:33):
exactly.
So they took like what abacramedid, but like to the extreme
three mil three millionfollowers yeah, I mean they're
huge they are huge.
So I think you get into these.
You get into these saturatedmarkets and one of the best ways
to unsaturate it or to make itfeel like it's less saturated is
(36:54):
to identify who that person isViori let's go back to Viori,
their person.
Their person is like straightathletes yes, that was not
Lululemon Like, even though theyhad, like, the community of
yoga instructors, it wasn'tathletes was fitness.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
It was fitness which very different.
It's hard.
It's hard for maybe the averageperson to distinguish what the
difference is yeah but there isa difference, yeah, yeah, it's
like like I'm in a fitness stageof life, not an athlete stage
of life and I'm in a very muchathlete stage of life right now.
Like I don't compete in anysports.
(37:38):
I grew up competing in sports,but right now I am not.
Yeah, pursuing athletic so.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So your mentality may be more so.
To buy a view, uh uh, lululemonpotentially, whereas mine Is
very much for you, because I amlike that's what I'm doing doing
.
Yeah, like I'm not a runner fourdays a week, you know, and I
like their, I like theirmaterial for performance.
It's very soft for me, you know.
(38:05):
So, yeah, I think messaging andidentifying your niche is
probably the most importantthing you can do as a saturated
brand owner.
And then there's these otherthings that we talked about,
right, mark, like, I think, tokind of like full circle the
conversation and kind of likedwindle this down a little bit
(38:25):
here, because we've gone off ona few tangents.
Mark said you can do someexclusivity.
That helps out a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
But exclusivity.
There's exclusivity in yourbrand.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, in your brand, also in your product right?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Well, this is how I would define exclusivity.
You have exclusivity.
We go back to defining yourbrand.
You have to choose your enemyand draw a line in the sand.
When you're exclusive, you canbe exclusive with price points
and products.
You can also be exclusive withprice points and products.
You can also be exclusive withyour messaging, absolutely, but
we'll just define that astargeting.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So yes, so exclusivity products but your
messaging is the new way totarget right.
Yes, your messaging which, yourmessaging which helps you
create your content, yourcontent is what really helps
targeting nowadays.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
And I'm looking at all of True Classic T's ads and
again they have a few that aremore model-y now, more like
model men, but still very muchjust like dad.
That is a good way to describethem is they were and are a dad
(39:37):
brand.
Yeah, and dads often feel like,once you get to your 30s, I
feel it, I think you felt it youget to this point with your
style where you're like man,this stuff, like my body's
changed, I don't really fit intostuff like nothing really fits
me, like all the standard sizingdoesn't fit me right, and they
(39:58):
just yeah, here's a tea thatmakes you look good.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, they found like their market.
That they found was reallyawesome.
I think it's really cool so Ithink, that's where you end,
right like it's.
It's who define your audienceyeah it's not every woman, it's
not every man, it's not evenjust fit men right?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
you got to go a little bit deeper than that,
especially if you're saturatedand don't fall for the trap of
thinking well, we also get thesekinds of people yeah, yeah, you
will get those peoplesecondarily.
Yep, it's gonna happen rightand talk to them another time.
But if you're trying to grow,their riches are in the niches,
(40:40):
is what they say yeah, yeah, wework with.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
We work with jewelry brands.
We talk to jewelry.
Such a saturated market but youcan create.
We have work with somebody whocreates jewelry for pregnant
women around breastfeeding seemsodd.
She does great because she'snarrowed it down to it's not
somebody who's, it's not it'snot a very specific message?
(41:03):
it's not an empty nester whosekids are not even empty nester.
It's not, yeah, you're notgonna have an empty nester who
is ever buying that jewelry.
No, you're not gonna get evensomebody in their 40s who's not
an empty nester but but who'sdone having kids, who are going
to buy that jewelry.
You're getting 25 to 35 yearold women who are either
starting or ending that journey.
Who is going to buy that?
(41:24):
So, yeah, I like it.
Define your audience, then youcan target your messaging and
then you can create contentaround that which will then
target and find those people.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Now quick, uh, quick, uh.
Public service serviceannouncement.
That's what I was looking for.
Psa yeah, I don't know whatthis is.
If you're on shopify, make surethat all your black friday
discounts are synced with withyour sales channel for instagram
(41:55):
and facebook, so meta yes, andalso google and youtube, and
then just go into your merchantcenter on the google side.
Make sure those discounts areshowing up in shopping networks
on your search terms that'ssomething that a lot of brands
miss yeah, what else?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
well, let's give a couple anything else that we saw
some misses because we did yes,yes, also make sure, also make
sure.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
This is what we always recommend.
Get your, it doesn't matter,just get your Black Friday sale
banner up.
Yes, it doesn't matter if youremail has gone out or not.
Just get it up first thing inthe morning or midnight the
night before.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah.
Like don't, and make sure yourcode's live and and let your
code be live for an extra houror two.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, right, like there's those people who are
checking out at and time zone 59and time, yeah, exactly nobody
wants to pay attention to, likeif it means midnight pacific or
eastern we.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
We had a client who did a pre Black Friday sale who
left theirs open, I think, forlike 12 extra hours and they did
like 5x what their normalrevenue was would be in a normal
day and it like we weren'tadvertising it anymore.
We weren't advertising the saleat all and and it wasn't an
auto code was the and the bannerwas gone to banner was gone.
(43:13):
It was just people just hadremembered or saw the email they
did go against our betterjudgment and we, we are auto
code people.
They did not do auto code yeah,auto code is just easier auto
code's easier.
A lot of people don't putbanners up and a lot of people
like to have people put in theregular discount because they're
like what if somebody justwants to buy full price?
And it's like nobody you'regonna get more people who are
(43:36):
gonna see the advertisement andwant to convert or see your
evergreen ad and then see thebanner exactly and then that's a
that's a pleasant surprise.
I would even say put it in theannouncement bar.
Right, because a lot of you aregoing to be doing advertising
that send people to either alanding page, a collection page
or a product page.
Sometimes you send it to thehomepage too.
Right, it makes sense to sendit to the homepage, but a lot of
(43:58):
you aren't going to be sendingthings to homepages, so yeah,
collection pages or make sureit's in the announcement bar
which is on every page, causethat announcement bar stays up
there, I also will put it like.
I will put it all throughout thehomepage, like in three
different sections, you know.
So if you have other, likeslider images or whatever it's
black Friday I'll sometimes putit in the collection, like you
(44:21):
know you could put it in thecollection header.
You can use a script that'slike hey, 30% off, site wide
black Friday.
So put, put it all over, cakeit all over, it will help your
sales.
Um, don't do auto discounts orjust mark everything down, don't
make people put in promo codes.
It's just one less step and, ifI recall right like, there's
been times where I uh, um, therehave been times where I you
(44:47):
can't use your apple pay if youhave to put in a promo code,
like it messes things up, um.
So that's huge and I virtuallyonly use apple pay if they have
the option yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Apple pay yeah, has an issue with it sometimes.
Um, if it's not auto applied Ialso saw.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Just just another thing is I also saw people's
shipping.
Uh, stuff was off becausesometimes, like if you have
promos where if somebody spendsover x amount of dollars, like
over a hundred dollars, you getfree shipping, but you you don't
have like override shippingrules for your primary discount,
uh, like I went to check out onone brand and I had spent
(45:23):
enough money to get my freeshipping and it wouldn't give me
my free shipping.
So I actually bailed, like Iwas going to spend a couple
hundred dollars and buy somegifts for people, and because it
wasn't giving me free shippingand it was paying, it was
charging me $10.'m like I'm notdoing this when I qualified for
the free shipping.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, so, just yeah, little bugs, just go through
your checkout make sureeverything looks good, yeah, and
then just double check makesure your discount, your black
friday, is being advertised,because and the reason why I say
that with google and why that'sa huge missed opportunity Is
there's a lot of people thatwill just search your brand,
thinking I wonder if they have aBlack Friday discount, and if
they don't see it In theshopping network, or if they
(46:04):
don't see it first search, theymight not come.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Can I leave a little Easter egg, since we're just
doing this now?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Sure, if it's the last one.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
It's the last one.
It's nothing to do with BlackFriday.
It's an it's.
It's a promotion for us.
Mark and I just launched a newcompany.
Yeah, oh yeah, you may.
This is the Easter egg.
Okay, we just launched a newcompany.
It's called BFF creative.
Where it's we?
It's like in-house Subscriptioncreative agency best way to put
(46:36):
it like we are your in-housecreative team, so you don't have
the designs on demand designson demand.
Yep so video ads, emails,product images anything you need
.
We just launched it.
We're in beta friends 25, 25%off for two months.
Check it out.
(46:58):
Bff, creativecom, the first two, first two months.
If you do it, only people whoget this who listened to the
whole episode.
I know people like you knowthat's true.
So that's why I did it at theend.
I like it Right.
So the those listeners who didit and DM me if you did it, dm
me if you heard it and let meknow listeners who did it and dm
me if you did it, dm me if youheard it and let me know.
That'd be exciting.
(47:18):
But it's awesome, like reallycool portal that you can.
You you can submit all yourrequests, have direct
communication with the designers, you can revise it unlimited
revisions, unlimited requests.
It's really cool and wildlyinexpensive yes, it is compared
to having an in-house designeror even compared to working with
somebody on fiverr.
And if you do, having anin-house designer or even
compared to working withsomebody on fiverr and if you do
have an in-house designer,chances are they're bottlenecked
(47:40):
a hundred percent.
So even if you have a goodthey're, always they're always
overworked.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, designers love using it and and most companies
aren't in a position where theyneed to hire a second one.
Yes, but you can get a secondone for the price of a quarter,
a quarter or a fifth of theprice of one for sure.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
So all right Between you and I.
All right, thank you everybody,we will see you.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Thanksgiving.
Yeah, happy Thanksgiving, happyFriday.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
We will see you on cyber Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Cyber week yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Cyber trucks Cyber week.
Yeah, cybertrucks, see ya.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unstoppable marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
To get in touch with me or giveme any direct feedback, please
go follow me and get in touchwith me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
(48:39):
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
You have to be exclusive.
I know we want to be inclusive,but as a marketer you have to
think in exclusive ways.
And I'm not saying todiscriminate.
What I'm saying is you justhave to think about hey, do I
want any guy wearing my stuff?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You get into these saturated markets, and one of
the best ways to make it feellike it's less saturated is to
identify who that person is.
Yo, what's going on oneverybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast, with me, as
always, my co-host, markGoldhart.
Mark Goldhart, how are youdoing today?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Doing good Well swell .
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, woke up to the first snow on the street today,
like it was stuck to the streetdid yeah at least at my house,
was that at your house too?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
yeah, it was very wintry this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, on the morning walk, but then it was like blue
skies by the time I got here.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, it was blue skies.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
So, yeah, it was very blue bird day I don't know if
any of the ski resorts are openno, they I think, uh, um, I
think this the one, the earliestone opens like the 26th or
something like that right afterthanksgiving that's right before
thanksgiving.
I think we're okay.
(01:19):
So, if you're listening to thisright now, it is black friday,
is this week.
If you're listening to this,this will drop and, yeah, you
are going into Black Friday.
You are two days away to threedays away from Thanksgiving,
because it's no, no, two days.
Tuesday, wednesday, thursday,tuesday, wednesday, thursday
three days, yeah yes, you starton Thursday night three days
(01:41):
away from meta bugs higher cpms.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Google bugs higher conversion rates, though yeah,
higher conversion rates buyingbehavior is up, we, we, godspeed
.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We wish you the best it was the best of times it was
the worst of times you're gonnahave high cpms, but you will
have higher conversion rates.
Your conversion rates will behigh.
Do you know what that line'sfrom uh, sing the song that
reminded me of the good times isthat it it is so not it oh, but
(02:20):
do you know what I was thinking?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
it was yeah, you're thinking of the Chubba Wonky
song.
Chumbawumba, chumbawumba.
Yeah, johnny boy.
Yeah, that's a great song.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Johnny boy, I can't not love him.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Kids will never know how great it was to just hear a
song on the radio that slapped.
It's the only way to find a newsong or your older brother or
sister like brought home a cd oh, I mean, if you go even further
back.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Do you remember the box?
Did you ever watch the box?
The tv show, the program yeah,it was called the box, like the
channel, the channel.
It was called the box, channel58 for me, but it only it was
just music videos live, for.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I feel like it was like a secret channel that we
discovered and it was on formaybe a year and then it
disappeared.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I can't confirm or deny that.
But what the box was is, it wasessentially like TRL without
Carson Daly, so TRL was MTV,where they would play music
videos, but then Carson Dalywould get on and he would like
talk about like oh, that's theSpice Girls or oh, that's NSYNC,
you know, but it was just musicvideos straight.
But what you could do is it waslike.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
it was like what's your first memory of the music
video on it?
What music video was it?
Devil Went Down to Georgia.
Same, really, I'm not kidding.
I was right about to say theDevil Went Down to Georgia was
the first thing I saw on that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Or Power man 5000.
Georgia was the first thing Isaw on that.
Or power man 5,000.
No one will ever remember that,yeah, but the box was um, the
box was if for those of you whodon't understand, it was like a
jukebox, you know how like you'dgo to.
If you could go to a bar at ajukebox and you put money in,
you say a nine, and it wouldplay that song you could call in
(04:05):
.
Oh is that how it worked?
It was like star six, seven orsomething like that, and then
they would just and it wouldbill your phone company.
So, like our parents would loseit on us, cause it'd be like
three or four bucks a song andwe'd call in like 10 times and
you just sit and wait.
Like you didn't have a queue,you would.
You didn't have a queue, youwould.
You didn't know what you whereyou were at in the queue.
(04:26):
So we would just watch it forlike two hours and just wait for
our song.
We're like, oh, peaches, thatwas like one that we'd always do
, the peaches song.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
President of the United States or or.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Uh, we do like a lot of like third eye blind you like
third eye blind?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
you know you get some third eye blind, some peaches
yeah, I remember peaches.
I remember obviously devil wentdown georgia.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I don't know who sings that, I don't know he was
looking for a job or, uh, Ican't remember I don't think
it's any.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I think it was like a one-hit wonder.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It was awesome the music video is epic.
The box, yeah, the box.
So, uh, okay, so let's uh.
In other news, uh, bigannouncement this week was made
by viory, so viory just raisedanother, I believe, 800 million
at a valuation of 5.5 billiondollars.
(05:21):
Billion with a B Fury, theactive wear company you call
athleisure active wear companyathleisure which is very
interesting, because I don'tknow.
(05:41):
I'm trying to think where I wantto take this, but I want to
break it down just because.
So, if you restarted, I want tosay it was.
Did we say 2015?
Is that we looked up, or was it2016?
It was 2015 2015.
So from 2015 to 2017 they weredoing they only did 1 million In
DTC revenue.
So by year 2 they were doing amillion a year.
(06:02):
By year 3, 2018 that's whenthey launched women's, because
they started with men's shorts,I believe like it was just that
was their one product was men'sshorts.
They went into the women'sspace and went from a million to
30 million.
Now I'm sure they got someinvestment at that time too.
(06:25):
I, you don't.
You don't generally just gofrom a million to 30 million if
your product is not dramaticallydifferent and if you think
about it, their product.
You know, lulu lulu lemon wasthe kind of poster child of yuri
yeah, yeah not much different Idon't want to.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Everyone has these opinions about all these
athleisure brands, but yeah,there's nothing that
dramatically different what isyour athleisure brand?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
athletic brand, do you have one that you
particularly subscribe to?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
no, no, I do not.
I have a pair of Lululemonshorts.
I have a pair of Viore shorts.
I have Nike shorts.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Just everything.
And whatever Christmas giftyou're getting.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Basically yeah, yeah, no, I'm not loyal at all to
athletic brands.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I have fallen into the Viore trap and we're pretty,
we're very loyal.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That's because you like pastels colors.
They're more pastelly.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And I really like their exercise shirts.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Blue Lemon seems to be a little bit more.
Their exercise shirts hold upNow.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
they're full of probably poisonous chemicals,
but we can talk about that later.
So okay, chemicals, but we cantalk about that later, so okay.
So what did viore do to go from, to go from a million to 30
million, to now?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
we did the math it's like 500 to 600.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
We did the math just and this, guys, so we have tools
where we can see how muchtraffic a brand's getting and
and you can put some averageslike okay, we've been in that,
we we've worked with enoughclothing brands when their price
point like it seems like theiraverage price point is probably
like 90 bucks, I would imagineif their aov is probably
hovering around 130 to?
160.
(08:13):
Yeah.
So average conversion rate isbetween what a percent and a
half to two and a half percentlike is what most brands
probably, yeah, fall under.
So I gave them a two percentconversion rate.
I gave them $150 AOV, whichmeans that from a direct
consumer perspective, with howmuch monitored traffic our tools
are sharing with us, they'rebringing in around $500 to $550
(08:38):
million a year on D2C alone.
And then with some basicRetail's hard Retail's, really
hard and then with some likebasic uh retail retail's hard
retail's really hard, but withsome basic like it's really hard
to guess because we could beoff by.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We could literally be off by 80.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yes, we could like but who knows?
What we're getting.
They have about 50 stores.
Their goal is to open 100, Ithink, by end of 2025.
About 100 million is what we'reguessing Based off of chat GPT.
But that's not counting Amazon,that's not counting Amazon,
(09:18):
it's not counting theirpartnerships with Nordstrom
their partnerships with everyDick's Shields sporting goods
store.
So you, you know, maybe it'sanother 100 to 200 million.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
So I can't believe dicks is still called dicks yeah
, yeah, I mean so.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
So they're probably, they're probably sorry, but
they're probably annual revenueof, let's say, between 700, 700
million, million and a billion,I think is probably a fair yes,
like I and their valuation was5.5.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
5.5.
Yep, so they're not quitegetting a you know what is that?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's between a six and a seven multiple, depending
on where they're at.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, based off the valuations I've seen, that seems
really high, so we're probablywrong.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But but hold up, you're right, but we're not
dealing with billion like we'renot dealing with billion dollar
companies Like.
Their brand is like I think thevalue brand equity.
Exactly.
Cause that's true, cause I haveheard that, uh, that, uh, so
liquid death didn't they getlike?
I think the last valuation thatthey raised at was like 800
(10:29):
million.
Does that sound familiar?
no we had a discussion, probablylike a year and a half ago,
about this yeah, I can'tremember you have to go to the
vault, but I think they werelike 800 million I think they're
verging on a billion, so thatsounds about right and my buddy,
our buddy Brody yes he Investsin a lot of these companies and
(10:50):
he worked with somebody like.
His investor Brought thatliquid death portfolio to him
and they were still in the redbut valued at 800 million
Because of brand equity well,yeah, also, projections aren't.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Valuations are funny, right, because they're not just
a multiple.
Sometimes it's it's also like arun rate and you know there's
different equations that go intoit.
Yeah, but nonetheless, yeah,that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah so what is a company like that who, like I
said, you've got, you've gotlululemon, who had the big
takeoff, like in what?
Probably around?
Like 2014, 2015, like it'sprobably when they were really
big, like remember, when you andI got the discount from the kid
(11:43):
, they took off?
And that was probably 2016 whenwe got like our 30% off and we
bought like seven pairs of pants, each From 2010 to 2016 was
like kind of Lululemons.
I'd probably say even more tolike 2020.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Well, I'm just talking about, like, their
exponential growth.
Yeah, because they were an 80sbrand.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Like I think they started in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, I have no idea about their backstory.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I read the founder's book and I'm pretty sure he said
they were kind of like a NikeVery long.
Nike started in what the 70s,and then, all of a sudden, they
were huge when Michael Jordantook them on Right, which was in
the oh 98.
Okay, so not the 80s 98.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
The 90s.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, late 90s.
So I think that Lululemon'sheyday.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's a millennial brand.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I would guess Lululemon's heyday was probably
2014 to 2021, if I had to bet.
And then you had Aloe that camein and Viore that took up a lot
of market share.
So I think one of the reasonswhy Viore was able to capitalize
is Lulu became so big andpopular and sometimes, when you
(12:54):
become so big, people stopwanting it right, because
everyone's wearing it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Well, Allo's kind of new to the show.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, Allo's probably new.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
The same way viore is I'd say viore is a little more
of like, a second mover alongwith like, because you had the
men's brands like cuts and roan.
Viore started off heavy on themen's side and then went heavy
into the women's space.
Yeah, right, because you saidthey were doing 1 million and
they opened appointments andwent to yeah, 30 million a year.
(13:25):
Yeah, I would guess they'dprobably sell more women's, but
I don't know and they have avery intense collaboration
strategy, affiliate strategy howmany partnerships do they do a
year?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
yeah, so they do around 12 000 by 2024.
You know, as of right now theyhave 12 000 partnerships and
collaborations and I think whatthey did different than, like a
lululemon I think lululemon werereally big into retail, but
they just went super deep likethat.
So viore's viore, uh, hit thesame time that nIL stuff hit and
(14:03):
they went and found everycollege athlete who had
following.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
They started paying them.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And just yeah, exactly, just started shoveling
Emerging market, Shoveling thosethat 700 million that they had
raised, or 600 million that theyhad raised back in 2021.
Just because, when did NILstart?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Two years ago right 2022.
2022?
Yeah, so they had all thatmoney.
I want to say maybe 21, but2022, I think yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Notably, the person that they landed was Livvy Dunn,
who had like 3 millionfollowers on Instagram and 7
plus million, who at the time,if I remember right when I read
that she had the most followersof any collegiate athlete
remember right when I read thatshe was the high, had the most
followers of any collegiateathlete yeah, she set the record
for the most nil revenue.
Oh, I'm sure an athlete, I'msure I'm not mistaken yeah, she
(14:53):
was for those of you, she wasthe lsu gymnast, yeah, and I
don't know what she does now.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I don't know if she's like on team usa or I just
remember the the news story whenshe, when lsu, was at the
university of utah for a gymnastgymnastic meet.
Okay, I don't know, who is it?
What do you call that agymnastic meet?
I think so.
Yeah, um, there was a newsstory about like a thousand high
(15:17):
school boys like waited for herto leave the stadium.
Oh, serious, like yeah, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, she got a couple hundred, like it was a
bunch of people like waiting toget her autograph she got
massive celebrity status yeah,she's dating she's dating the
guy who just won rookie of theyear, uh, or who'd won rookie of
the year for football the nfl?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
yeah, I think I don't even know who that is.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I can't remember what his name is.
Yeah, I just saw a video of himlike winning it and he like she
was more excited than he was.
Oh yeah, he was just kind oflike and she was like ecstatic
about it.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I have to look it up, but anyways, yeah, I think so.
I think how do you, how do yougo there?
What's like, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
the question is, how do you stand out in a?
I mean, think about likeathleisure.
Lululemon started theathleisure like movement where
women were like, hey, I can justwear my leggings as clothes,
not just when I do yoga and workout, I, I'm just gonna wear
them to soccer practice, I'mgonna wear them on the plane,
I'm gonna wear them everywhere.
Right, so they start thismovement.
(16:16):
Lulu paves it.
This happens all the time wheresomebody paves of movement and
then you have other brands thatcapitalize, but it's a super
saturated market and so we talkto people all the time.
In our business where we'reworking with, you know, we have,
we have a marketing agency andwe're working with if I had a
guess, I would probably say one,two, three, we probably have
(16:40):
five or six clients who are invery, very heavily saturated
markets, and we have a jewelrybusiness that is a very heavily
saturated market.
So how do you stand out?
Right, you could, you can't.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
The first, yeah yeah, number one is you can go,
because this is what Lululemondid.
So, lululemon, you're competingagainst Nike and adidas.
Lululemon went exclusive.
So in the early days it washard to find certain colors.
They would only do certaincolors for certain releases and
(17:15):
then they would never have thatcolor again.
So there was this mad dash by alot of people to try to get a
certain color so they would havethis exclusivity to their
product, right?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
yep, so, and they did a lot of retail back in the day
they did a ton of retail and alot of community stuff a lot of
community stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So what they would do if, if, uh, if, you're
unfamiliar is they would sponsordance teachers and gym teachers
, and so if you were a teacher,you could go in and get a
significant discount discount towear your stuff in front of
your class when you say ateacher, you mean like, not like
a educator no, I'm saying likea gym instructor.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
An instructor, yeah, like my wife, yeah, dance
teacher, my wife got her fitnessinstructor license yes and was
able to get it.
I think your wife got itbecause she teaches dance.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So they wanted they had this kind of guerrilla
tactic of exclusivity, but thenthey would invite people in that
had influence in thecommunities to wear that
exclusive stuff and then peopleyou know wouldn't want yeah,
you'd get like 20 off and theyweren't affiliates, they didn't
get paid.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
It was literally just like hey, you want 20 off.
We never do discounts.
You want 20?
Yeah, you want a discount,because they never did discounts
and so that they that's whatpumped them up yeah, now you'd
get a really good discount now,if you already did that, but
much bigger, like they, theywould offer, like they offer
like 40 off.
So they doubled it I don't knowyeah I do know, yeah, like they
(18:52):
doubled it and and then theytook it a step further and said
we don't just want all thoselike community people who might
not have following or whatever.
They're just gonna be more wordof mouth people.
Let's go find bigger people totalk about us too.
Right, where?
I don't I, I don't recalllululemon doing that.
Lululemon didn't.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I mean I'm sure they did it's hard to say because
they're 2012 to 2016.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
18 but I was pretty dear.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
He started growing post that yeah, yeah, but
nonetheless it's like step oneis exclusivity helps you stand
out.
So I think a lot of people arescared to go exclusive because
you're narrowing your audience.
But tesla also went exclusive.
So if you look at thesecompanies that have grown over
(19:41):
time, right now owning a teslais not really a huge status
symbol like it used to be.
I mean, they're not cheap cars,but they're really not that
expensive anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
In comparison, two, three years ago, they were very
much a status symbol yeah, orI'd say three.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, even two years ago probably, even though prices
started coming down.
But they started out onlyselling roadsters to rich people
and there's like some economyof scale here and that was their
long-term plan.
They sold these really fast,expensive cars and now they've
moved into more of a everydaycar, yeah.
(20:16):
So a model 3 and a y are greatcar options for just like your
regular, yeah, middle classamerican, like they're not that
crazy.
I mean, they're literally thesame price as buying like a
toyota.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, I think the average car price now is like 48
000 which is a y and you canget a y or a three for that or
less yes.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
So exclusivity you start exclusive because your
profit's always going to bebetter and then you you move
into more of like a broaderapproach.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So that's one way to stick out, is if you want to
become more exclusive and you'renot trying to be for everyone
and ways you can do do theexclusivity is well, one with
price, if you don't want to becheap yeah, you, you said one
which was drops that, sell outthat is very exclusive product
drops and price and price isanother one, and viorey for sure
(21:08):
stepped up on the price likethey elevated their price.
It was very similar tolululemon, but it was cheaper.
It was more expensive than nikeand the adidas and it was much
more expensive than a nike andadidas your everyday wear.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, lululemon, back then it was more expensive than
nike and the adidas and it wasmuch more expensive than a nike
and adidas your everyday wearyeah, lulu lemon.
Back then it was like 110, 20bucks for joggers yep like we're
talking in 2016 15 14 pricesthat's a lot yeah, for sure I I
wonder what their prices are.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Now I want to check yeah, so, yeah, I like it.
I think exclusivity is issomething that can help you
stand out in a very crowdedmarket, right, um, I think the
other thing, uh and we've kindof alluded to this already is
people you know sometimes youcan just outspend people in ads,
um, like if you've got, ifyou've raised capital, you can
(21:55):
do that.
But I'm guessing the majorityof people who are listening to
this podcast that's not veryhelpful for them because they
probably don't have mil,hundreds of thousands of dollars
and millions of dollars tooutspend their competition.
So if the key, one of the keysto selling so Mark and I talk
about this- all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
130 bucks.
They're joggers now.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So they've, gone up like 20 bucks or so, yeah, which
isn't that much considering inthe last six seven years.
Yeah, so the other, the otherthing is, uh, like mark and I
talk about this all the time ifyou want to grow your business,
you've either got to get moretraffic, you got to find ways to
increase your conversion rate,you got to find ways to increase
the average order value, youhave to find ways to get your
returning customers to come backmore frequently.
And so, if your E is going froma million dollars to $30
(22:42):
million, and then from $30million in 2018 to now, what we
just talked about, which seemslike it may be somewhere around
the billion you know, north of abillion um annual revenue, you
have to get yes, you can, canspend money, but if you're
listening to this podcast, youdon't have all that money.
You have to have other peopletalk about you.
(23:04):
Right, you need borroweddistribution, is what I like to
call it, and it's not just hey,it's not the old school model of
hey, hey, here's $8,000.
Influencer has 5 millionfollowers, or $10,000.
Will you post about us?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, and do you want slow growth or fast growth too?
Yeah, that's the question.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Because you don't have to grow the way Viore did.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And just so everyone knows I just looked it up
Lululemon's worth close to $40billion.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah knows, I just looked it up lululemon's worth
close to 40 billion.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, which makes sense, right?
They're not even close to, Ithink they're publicly traded.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Now right, I have no idea, but probably but they're,
they're.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
They're worth close to 40 billion.
They were founded in 98.
That's still fast growth.
That's incredible growth.
That's a giant company.
Their earnings calls are stillgoing up too, like they're not
slowing down yeah they're goingup, but it took them a while.
Yeah, and that gorilla approachthat they took, where I mean
(24:08):
maybe it's just because that'swhat it was back in the day like
social media wasn't kind ofwhat it is now.
Yeah, I mean, the instagramboom started happening in 2014
is when it came on to the sceneas like the main social channel.
But they worked withcommunities and did community
(24:29):
building like real communityoutreach, and because of that,
I'm sure they have a ton ofbrand loyalists that have stuck
around for a really long time.
Yeah, yeah, for sure where noone does that anymore.
Everyone just goes straight toInstagram Like they don't do any
real life, reach out, theydon't build communities in the
same way You're starting to seeit more and more right.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Like, did we talk about this when you asked?
Was it last week where you saidwhat's a trend that you're
going to see for 2025?
Like, what should we expect?
Remember, when you asked methis question, did we talk about
in real life stuff?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Okay, maybe I just created a tick talk about it,
but I think that that's a huge,that's type of stuff is coming
back.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
What is cause?
The running clubs?
Or the mommy like uh?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I see A lot of like mommy walk clubs.
So it's the moms who havebabies who are In their house
all day.
You're seeing a lot of brandswho are starting to say hey,
we're a motherhood brand.
If you're in Chicago EveryMonday, we get our strollers and
we Walk.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yes, Because, from a High vantage point, I think
sometimes we forget how weirdCOVID was and how much it messed
with people's psyches.
Yeah, I don't think we're stilldone looking at what the
overall long-term effects are ofthat.
Yeah, not only on adults, but Imean there's kids and teenagers
(25:53):
Like I think that's why.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, I think we think about it more on what's
happened with the kids andteenagers and less about how
it's impacted us, for sure, justbecause of education, right.
Cause you and me talk aboutthis all the time.
Like we have, we're based inUtah and half of our clients are
in Utah and the other half arescattered throughout the United
States.
And we, like, we got a clientduring COVID in Utah and we
(26:20):
didn't meet them until last yearand they they're like you know,
you're like 10 minutes I'm 10minutes away.
I'm like 30 minutes from themand and we were just like what
are we doing like?
you get.
We got so like caught up in, oh, zoom Slack, which we're big
believers in, oh, huge yeah,like we were able to get so much
(26:43):
done.
But all of a sudden and whatwas funny is I didn't even see
him Like when I first met him,it wasn't at like our request,
like hey, we should go to lunch.
I was at like an event and hewas like at this dinner event
and him and I were like what,how is this the first time we've
ever met in person, you know,and since then we've now met and
we try to do that more oftenwith clients, but, yeah, even
(27:04):
like adults, we've even gottencaught up in that so much,
whereas, like somebody lives 10minutes away but so much easier
to be on a Zoom.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, like people matter and like human
relationships matter, and as andas a brand, one of the ways to
build brand loyalty is to fosteror to help accelerate those
types of relationships yeah,yeah, I mean it's, it's like uh
like what lululemon did.
They didn't create thoserelationships between students
(27:32):
and teachers.
They were just saying, hey,let's sponsor these people in a
way so that, hey, they're in adance class, like they're going
to be more likely, or they're ina cycling class.
They love what their teacher'swearing, cause they're all
looking at them, they'reinstructor.
Well, let's, let's throw thaton.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Well, they would go do a lot of those in real life
stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And they would do little sponsored events.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
They'd go and start yoga classes and host yoga stuff
.
And I think what a lot ofpeople forget is not not to get
religious, but like but you'regoing to get religious, but I'm
going to slightly, I am, I'm areligious guy, okay, but like,
if you, if like in Christiantext, it's all about the one,
(28:17):
right?
Like that's what they focus on.
I was like, hey, like, don'tjust think of a hundred people
there, look at individual people, like that's what it's all
about.
You know, and I thinkoftentimes in business, like we,
we cast the wide net because wewant everyone and and the one
is too much work, right?
(28:38):
So in real life, what I mean bythat is if you have a customer
based of 50,000 people acrossthe United States and a hundred
of them are in Salt Lake city orSan Diego or Carlsbad or
whatever, a hundred of your50,000 is the one.
It doesn't seem like a lotenough to to make a difference.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, and that, and going to the one is a good
reason why you should build apersona, because you can't talk
to a hundred thousand people,but you can't talk to one person
that will relate to a hundredthousand people.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
So so I think doing these things and that's what,
that's what lululemon did reallybig is they.
They had, like it is, to do thein real life stuff.
It is a lot of work, you haveto have a lot of people you, it
requires a lot of your time itis a lot of work, but what was
their?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
my sister-in-law worked there back in the early
days, so I remember like thishuge comeuppance of lululemon,
right yeah, and she worked atone of their retail stores.
But what was the ethos Like?
Who was the persona OfLululemon?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Um, I would probably say Um.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
A mom, cause the owner talks about it.
Yeah, remember he said hedidn't want certain people
wearing their stuff.
Yes, a mom, because the ownertalks about it.
Yeah, remember he said hedidn't want certain people
wearing their stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yes, yeah, I mean it was a fit mom, Essentially.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Not even like.
I wouldn't even say mom, it wasjust fit women.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I don't know, I think it was very much not the
20-year-old, I think it was morelike the 30 year old
aspirational 30 year old, whichgenerally is going to be a
mother yeah, yeah, but theynever had mom stuff yeah, you're
not pregnant women, or you know?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
it was yeah, yeah, no , no, yeah.
So it was we want fit women,yeah, period, like they were
exclusive, like they did notwant certain body types, yeah,
and they got in trouble for this, I think in 2000 oh, yeah, yeah
, I mean everyone 20 like oncethe body chip.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Uh, the founder's name is chip something, but yeah
, he gets like a ton of heatlike they put they.
They toss him in the samecategory.
We used to toss him in the samecategory as the Abercrombie guy
.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
The Abercrombie guy.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
But now he's like sex trafficker.
So he's what?
Oh yeah, abercrombie guy, Ithink so.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, I mean he's like in some really, really deep
stuff, so I don't think he'snow in that.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well, I never wore Abercrombie, so I did a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
My mom loved it.
My mom loved it.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Buy it for me I remember going in the store and
just wanting to pass out becauseof all the perfume.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, I will say this so still to this day fierce by
Abercrombie is one of the bestsmelling colognes ever.
My dad still wears it.
I was wearing that in like ohfive and my dad still wears that
.
It's like it was like fierce orAquadesia.
Remember Aquadesia 05?
Speaker 1 (31:39):
and my dad still wears that.
It's like it was like fierce oraqua dejo.
Remember aqua dejo.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
So anytime, I do remember aqua dejo did you buy
that 10 years ago and you'restill just 20 years ago and
you're still just using it?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
there's no way.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
People still use aqua , dejo I smell it every now and
then, really, yeah, like it'slike a blast from the past,
because I guarantee if, ifgrayson was wearing it right now
, you'd be be like Every juniorhigh boy was testing out
Aquadesio.
Oh, yeah, Well, you were sexyman because it was like a low
price here, Like Aquadesio waslike 15.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
There were some rumors about it too.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah there were some rumors that it would help your
game Pheromones.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
It never worked for me.
So, of course, like a bunch ofloser junior high boys are the
ones wearing it.
Yeah, anyways, but anyways,yeah they were very exclusive in
their persona.
So, if you want to start fromthe beginning, the outreach and
the community building they didwas not like, yes, it was nice
and it was great, but they werevery strict about who they
(32:41):
wanted wearing their stuff.
That's why they went toinstructors Like they didn't
want just anyone wearing theirstuff.
They wanted people that otherslooked up to in a fitness way.
Yeah, period, yep, so veryexclusive.
And you have to be exclusive.
I know we want to be inclusiveall the time, but as a marketer,
(33:05):
you have to think in exclusiveways.
And I'm not saying todiscriminate, sure.
What I'm saying is you justhave to think about hey, if I'm
in clothing, let's say I'm amen's clothing brand, yeah, do I
want any guy wearing my stuff?
And the question is true.
Classic tees is a good exampleof like the antithesis of this
(33:28):
theory, because they went foreverybody but you can go big
right if you like.
Yes yeah, and they went foreverybody.
Yeah, but in a way I there, I,they went broad, but I would
actually argue that it wasn'texclusive in the way of oh,
we're an exclusive brand, butit's like they were only for men
.
Well, it was men period, theirtheir messaging was broad.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And their messaging was broad but specific.
But it was meant for dad bod.
Yes, right, right.
So it wasn't Like.
So, even though like theirmessaging was, anyone can wear
us.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It was the anti-Lululemon messaging.
It was.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, it was like hey , these either look too tight on
you if you're wearing aLululemon and you can see your
Thickness, yep or you're wearingsomething so big from TJ Maxx
that doesn't have a fit, and soit just looks like you're
wearing a bag.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Like we're gonna come in so they, they, they targeted
the dad bod a hundred percentyes, and that's what I want to
say is like it's Inclusive butalso exclusive, because there's
a lot of guys that look at trueclassic tees and they're like no
.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I've never bought one ever and I don't like.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I don't like because they don't identify with that
brand, like if you're a superfit dude, chances are you've
never bought one yeah, chancesare.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
If you're a super fit dude and you're looking at true
classics versus cuts, what areyou buying?
You're probably buying cuts?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
yeah, for sure.
That's my argument at least.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
But if you're just a guy who's like, or a viewer, or
you know, like yeah and guesswhat?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I'm not saying it's good or bad either way.
Sure, we're just analyzing,yeah, and hypothesizing, yep.
But if you're just an averagedude, you know you're busy,
you're not into fitness, whichis fine, but like you know
you're okay shape, but like yougot a dad bod, good for you.
Yeah, salute true to classicteeth comes to your rescue and
(35:15):
it makes you look like oh and ashirt that, a t-shirt that
actually looks good on yeah,makes me look like I'm a little
more trim yeah yeah, I, I likewhat, I like where the
conversation's going is becausevery specific we're talking
about very saturated t-shirts,very saturated.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Everyone sells a t-shirt, right every clothing
brand, athletic wear.
We talk jewelry.
You can talk, uh like um liquidsupplements, water, right, very
saturated things, and I thinkwhere the full circle's coming
around is is you.
You can be very, um, you can bein a very saturated market, but
(35:52):
if you find your person, youfind your group of people and
who are they true classics, dadbob, dad bod, and then you only
talk to them.
Yep, exactly, abercrombie andvich was only pretty high
schoolers, right?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
pretty people, you know which makes sense if he's a
sex yeah, who's the other one?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
there's a, there's a.
There's a women's brand calledbrandy melville and if I recall,
they only have like up to sizetwo really yeah, so they like
they are I'm looking at themright now very and and yeah,
they, I mean they've they've hadsome documentaries about them
and they've had some very like.
They're very much in the mediaso they're the small girl brand
(36:33):
exactly.
So they took like what abacramedid, but like to the extreme
three mil three millionfollowers yeah, I mean they're
huge they are huge.
So I think you get into these.
You get into these saturatedmarkets and one of the best ways
to unsaturate it or to make itfeel like it's less saturated is
(36:54):
to identify who that person isViori let's go back to Viori,
their person.
Their person is like straightathletes yes, that was not
Lululemon Like, even though theyhad, like, the community of
yoga instructors, it wasn'tathletes was fitness.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
It was fitness which very different.
It's hard.
It's hard for maybe the averageperson to distinguish what the
difference is yeah but there isa difference, yeah, yeah, it's
like like I'm in a fitness stageof life, not an athlete stage
of life and I'm in a very muchathlete stage of life right now.
Like I don't compete in anysports.
(37:38):
I grew up competing in sports,but right now I am not.
Yeah, pursuing athletic so.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
So your mentality may be more so.
To buy a view, uh uh, lululemonpotentially, whereas mine Is
very much for you, because I amlike that's what I'm doing doing
.
Yeah, like I'm not a runner fourdays a week, you know, and I
like their, I like theirmaterial for performance.
It's very soft for me, you know.
(38:05):
So, yeah, I think messaging andidentifying your niche is
probably the most importantthing you can do as a saturated
brand owner.
And then there's these otherthings that we talked about,
right, mark, like, I think, tokind of like full circle the
conversation and kind of likedwindle this down a little bit
(38:25):
here, because we've gone off ona few tangents.
Mark said you can do someexclusivity.
That helps out a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
But exclusivity.
There's exclusivity in yourbrand.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, in your brand, also in your product right?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Well, this is how I would define exclusivity.
You have exclusivity.
We go back to defining yourbrand.
You have to choose your enemyand draw a line in the sand.
When you're exclusive, you canbe exclusive with price points
and products.
You can also be exclusive withprice points and products.
You can also be exclusive withyour messaging, absolutely, but
we'll just define that astargeting.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So yes, so exclusivity products but your
messaging is the new way totarget right.
Yes, your messaging which, yourmessaging which helps you
create your content, yourcontent is what really helps
targeting nowadays.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
And I'm looking at all of True Classic T's ads and
again they have a few that aremore model-y now, more like
model men, but still very muchjust like dad.
That is a good way to describethem is they were and are a dad
(39:37):
brand.
Yeah, and dads often feel like,once you get to your 30s, I
feel it, I think you felt it youget to this point with your
style where you're like man,this stuff, like my body's
changed, I don't really fit intostuff like nothing really fits
me, like all the standard sizingdoesn't fit me right, and they
(39:58):
just yeah, here's a tea thatmakes you look good.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, they found like their market.
That they found was reallyawesome.
I think it's really cool so Ithink, that's where you end,
right like it's.
It's who define your audienceyeah it's not every woman, it's
not every man, it's not evenjust fit men right?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
you got to go a little bit deeper than that,
especially if you're saturatedand don't fall for the trap of
thinking well, we also get thesekinds of people yeah, yeah, you
will get those peoplesecondarily.
Yep, it's gonna happen rightand talk to them another time.
But if you're trying to grow,their riches are in the niches,
(40:40):
is what they say yeah, yeah, wework with.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
We work with jewelry brands.
We talk to jewelry.
Such a saturated market but youcan create.
We have work with somebody whocreates jewelry for pregnant
women around breastfeeding seemsodd.
She does great because she'snarrowed it down to it's not
somebody who's, it's not it'snot a very specific message?
(41:03):
it's not an empty nester whosekids are not even empty nester.
It's not, yeah, you're notgonna have an empty nester who
is ever buying that jewelry.
No, you're not gonna get evensomebody in their 40s who's not
an empty nester but but who'sdone having kids, who are going
to buy that jewelry.
You're getting 25 to 35 yearold women who are either
starting or ending that journey.
Who is going to buy that?
(41:24):
So, yeah, I like it.
Define your audience, then youcan target your messaging and
then you can create contentaround that which will then
target and find those people.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Now quick, uh, quick, uh.
Public service serviceannouncement.
That's what I was looking for.
Psa yeah, I don't know whatthis is.
If you're on shopify, make surethat all your black friday
discounts are synced with withyour sales channel for instagram
(41:55):
and facebook, so meta yes, andalso google and youtube, and
then just go into your merchantcenter on the google side.
Make sure those discounts areshowing up in shopping networks
on your search terms that'ssomething that a lot of brands
miss yeah, what else?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
well, let's give a couple anything else that we saw
some misses because we did yes,yes, also make sure, also make
sure.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
This is what we always recommend.
Get your, it doesn't matter,just get your Black Friday sale
banner up.
Yes, it doesn't matter if youremail has gone out or not.
Just get it up first thing inthe morning or midnight the
night before.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah.
Like don't, and make sure yourcode's live and and let your
code be live for an extra houror two.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, right, like there's those people who are
checking out at and time zone 59and time, yeah, exactly nobody
wants to pay attention to, likeif it means midnight pacific or
eastern we.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
We had a client who did a pre Black Friday sale who
left theirs open, I think, forlike 12 extra hours and they did
like 5x what their normalrevenue was would be in a normal
day and it like we weren'tadvertising it anymore.
We weren't advertising the saleat all and and it wasn't an
auto code was the and the bannerwas gone to banner was gone.
(43:13):
It was just people just hadremembered or saw the email they
did go against our betterjudgment and we, we are auto
code people.
They did not do auto code yeah,auto code is just easier auto
code's easier.
A lot of people don't putbanners up and a lot of people
like to have people put in theregular discount because they're
like what if somebody justwants to buy full price?
And it's like nobody you'regonna get more people who are
(43:36):
gonna see the advertisement andwant to convert or see your
evergreen ad and then see thebanner exactly and then that's a
that's a pleasant surprise.
I would even say put it in theannouncement bar.
Right, because a lot of you aregoing to be doing advertising
that send people to either alanding page, a collection page
or a product page.
Sometimes you send it to thehomepage too.
Right, it makes sense to sendit to the homepage, but a lot of
(43:58):
you aren't going to be sendingthings to homepages, so yeah,
collection pages or make sureit's in the announcement bar
which is on every page, causethat announcement bar stays up
there, I also will put it like.
I will put it all throughout thehomepage, like in three
different sections, you know.
So if you have other, likeslider images or whatever it's
black Friday I'll sometimes putit in the collection, like you
(44:21):
know you could put it in thecollection header.
You can use a script that'slike hey, 30% off, site wide
black Friday.
So put, put it all over, cakeit all over, it will help your
sales.
Um, don't do auto discounts orjust mark everything down, don't
make people put in promo codes.
It's just one less step and, ifI recall right like, there's
been times where I uh, um, therehave been times where I you
(44:47):
can't use your apple pay if youhave to put in a promo code,
like it messes things up, um.
So that's huge and I virtuallyonly use apple pay if they have
the option yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Apple pay yeah, has an issue with it sometimes.
Um, if it's not auto applied Ialso saw.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Just just another thing is I also saw people's
shipping.
Uh, stuff was off becausesometimes, like if you have
promos where if somebody spendsover x amount of dollars, like
over a hundred dollars, you getfree shipping, but you you don't
have like override shippingrules for your primary discount,
uh, like I went to check out onone brand and I had spent
(45:23):
enough money to get my freeshipping and it wouldn't give me
my free shipping.
So I actually bailed, like Iwas going to spend a couple
hundred dollars and buy somegifts for people, and because it
wasn't giving me free shippingand it was paying, it was
charging me $10.'m like I'm notdoing this when I qualified for
the free shipping.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, so, just yeah, little bugs, just go through
your checkout make sureeverything looks good, yeah, and
then just double check makesure your discount, your black
friday, is being advertised,because and the reason why I say
that with google and why that'sa huge missed opportunity Is
there's a lot of people thatwill just search your brand,
thinking I wonder if they have aBlack Friday discount, and if
they don't see it In theshopping network, or if they
(46:04):
don't see it first search, theymight not come.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Can I leave a little Easter egg, since we're just
doing this now?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Sure, if it's the last one.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
It's the last one.
It's nothing to do with BlackFriday.
It's an it's.
It's a promotion for us.
Mark and I just launched a newcompany.
Yeah, oh yeah, you may.
This is the Easter egg.
Okay, we just launched a newcompany.
It's called BFF creative.
Where it's we?
It's like in-house Subscriptioncreative agency best way to put
(46:36):
it like we are your in-housecreative team, so you don't have
the designs on demand designson demand.
Yep so video ads, emails,product images anything you need
.
We just launched it.
We're in beta friends 25, 25%off for two months.
Check it out.
(46:58):
Bff, creativecom, the first two, first two months.
If you do it, only people whoget this who listened to the
whole episode.
I know people like you knowthat's true.
So that's why I did it at theend.
I like it Right.
So the those listeners who didit and DM me if you did it, dm
me if you heard it and let meknow listeners who did it and dm
me if you did it, dm me if youheard it and let me know.
That'd be exciting.
(47:18):
But it's awesome, like reallycool portal that you can.
You you can submit all yourrequests, have direct
communication with the designers, you can revise it unlimited
revisions, unlimited requests.
It's really cool and wildlyinexpensive yes, it is compared
to having an in-house designeror even compared to working with
somebody on fiverr.
And if you do, having anin-house designer or even
compared to working withsomebody on fiverr and if you do
have an in-house designer,chances are they're bottlenecked
(47:40):
a hundred percent.
So even if you have a goodthey're, always they're always
overworked.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, designers love using it and and most companies
aren't in a position where theyneed to hire a second one.
Yes, but you can get a secondone for the price of a quarter,
a quarter or a fifth of theprice of one for sure.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
So all right Between you and I.
All right, thank you everybody,we will see you.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Thanksgiving.
Yeah, happy Thanksgiving, happyFriday.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
We will see you on cyber Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Cyber week yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Cyber trucks Cyber week.
Yeah, cybertrucks, see ya.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unstoppable marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
To get in touch with me or giveme any direct feedback, please
go follow me and get in touchwith me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
(48:39):
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!