April 15, 2025 • 42 mins
This episode dives into the controversial topic of brand competition and copying in Utah's business landscape. The hosts discuss real-world examples of companies like Crumbl, Dirty Dough, Lola Blankets, and Minky Couture, exploring the fine line between inspiration and imitation. They emphasize the importance of differentiating through audience targeting and branding rather than legal battles.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
how petty Utah brands can be.
This guy started Dirty Doughand he used to be a Crumble
employee and Crumble sued thembecause they were using
trademark stuff.
And some of the trademark stuffseemed silly Like, hey, you
can't use sprinkles on yourcookies.
Your boxes that you ship outlook too much like ours.
What would seem like pettinessstuff and Dirty Dough.
Instead of like fighting itfrom a lawsuit perspective and
(00:20):
putting all their money to likecrush crumble, they put their
marketing dollars to crushcrumble and it worked really,
really well.
So now, when you say crush, yeah, fight listen, crumble did not
get crushed, but crumble backdown and they settled versus
like dirty dough, you're done.
Yeah, you know what they wanted.
So it's like crumble one, butalso so did dirty dough at the
same time.
Yo, what's going on, everybody?
(00:42):
Welcome to to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
Here with me, as always, is MrMark Goldhart.
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Good.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was like listening to a few of our episodes back
and I'm like we always like Ihave this like same intro and
then I like, almost like last 10episodes, it's like the next
thing that said it was somethingabout the weather Snowed today
or it's like spring, and Ialmost just did it again.
I almost just said we've hadgreat weather lately, which is
(01:16):
true, it is, yeah, we have truelately.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I always laugh at this time of year because
everybody in Utah it's probablylike this wherever it's snowy,
where you have long winter,where you have a little bit of
both, everyone's so excited forthe spring.
And then the second springshows up.
Just everybody's just red eyedand coughing and sneezing,
allergies, destroying their life.
It's always funny.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Not me.
I went to an allergist a wizardyeah, that's what you said.
I went to an allergist a wizard, yeah, that's what you said.
I used to have death allergiesand now I have zero.
I shouldn't say zero, it's alittle bit, I get a little.
That's the claim, that's thebig claim.
Well, if you want to you knowin a nutshell I'll give you the
TLDR in 30 seconds.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Our producer said what did they do?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It's all about energy and vibes.
Yeah, it's an NAT specialist, Ithink, and he essentially
rewired my nervous system.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
What does that?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
mean NAT?
I can't remember.
You'd have to look it up.
I can't remember.
Like a made-up title Probably,but they essentially reset your
nervous system.
I used to have wild hay fever,I'm telling you.
I could not go outside.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Okay, but reset, reset your nervous system.
I mean, you have to explainwhat that actually is.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So this is where things get like.
You might think less of me asyou hear this, so I Go into this
guy's room because if you hear,is reset your nervous system.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You're thinking like, okay, what did they?
I don't know like use someelectrodes, did they a Little?
They A little bit of that?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Did they give you drugs Like how?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
do you reset a nervous system?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So the answer might surprise you Well first of all,
let me just say this first Okay,like I said, I could not go
outside without like.
There was like a two-weekperiod where I would go outside
like with toilet paper stuffedup my nose into in a way so that
you couldn't see it Like, and Iwould just look down so that
you couldn't see up.
You know, you did havechildhood asthma right.
(03:12):
I did have childhood asthma,yeah, but later discovered that
my allergies, because ever sincethis happened, I've never had
asthma.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
That's what I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So, anyways, my buddy tells me about this guy.
He used to be allergic to greenpeppers and he's like like
almost deathly allergic, hewould say like epi pen and he's
like now I eat green peppers allthe time.
So I'm like that's crazy.
I have been taking all sorts ofprescription drugs for this.
My life sucks for about a montha year and then another time in
(03:42):
the fall because the leavesfall and and stirs up more
pollen.
It's like a few days, you know,as the leaves fall here in utah
.
So I'm like I'll do anything,I'll pay anything for it, you
know, because you can get likeshots, but those shots can make
you infertile.
Like it's like the accutane ofyou remember accutane for acne?
Like it will get rid of youracne but you may never have kids
(04:05):
, you know.
Like the side effects are justso brutally crazy, you know.
And so I'm like why don't wantto do that?
Cause I was in the heat ofhaving children, you know,
getting ready to have children.
I think when I did this it wasprobably eight or 10 years ago.
So I go to this guy and, uh,you first take a test to
(04:25):
discover what you're allergic to, and in order to do so you have
to have a surrogate, somebodywho is pure, somebody who is,
who is not, who does not haveallergies, and essentially what
happens is you hold on to herwrist or and she holds the vial
(04:46):
of the allergen.
It's like a glass vial of theallergen and she holds her arm
up like this and I'm holding itup Like I'm raising my hand, if
you're listening and whathappens is he will push it down
and if she can resist, I'm notallergic to it.
But if it like goes down andit's weak, I'm, exist, I'm not
(05:07):
allergic to it.
But if it like goes down andit's weak, I'm, there's an
allergy there.
So that's how you discover.
So, keep in mind, I went in andI did not tell him what I was
allergic to.
There were five things that Iwas allergic to.
After I went through this wholething, we tested like 35
different things and it was likethe pollens, the trees, the
grass, you know the, the hayfever stuff, nothing else,
nothing else.
And so the way you treat it isyou hold the vial, the allergen,
(05:33):
and you can't do multiple atonce.
So if it's, if it's, if I'mjust going for tree pollens,
it's like okay, I'm holding theutah tree pollens in my hand and
he has you do these series ofthe and this is where things get
like really weird these seriesof things in his office that
you're like.
I remember when I did the firstone and I will explain it, but
I'm going to feel reallyembarrassed I remember looking
(05:54):
at him and being like this Isaid no disrespect, but I feel
like you're tricking me and youhave cameras in here, like the
papers that I signed I would.
I didn't read them and I feellike I signed the fact that you
can film me and he got so upsetwith me, like he was so offended
and could not believe that Idid that.
(06:14):
But this is what he had me do,like he's.
I was like sitting straight upand I didn't have a hat on and
he had me pant like a dog, likewith my tongue out, like this,
while him wiping my foreheadlike this for like 30 seconds.
(06:35):
But it was just a series ofthings like that, you know.
And then he was like I had myshoes off and he was doing
pressure points on my feet andon my hands and have this like
massage gun on my spine andholding my breath.
I mean, I can't remember all ofit was so long ago, but yeah,
like that it works, yeah.
And then I had to go um, sit ina room that was at a certain
(06:57):
time, at a certain temperatureon like a massage bed and you
have to sit in that room for 30minutes and you can't have a
phone, you can't have anythingelectric, you can't have, like,
any metal near you, can't haveany magnetism.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And and you can't sleep and you have to think,
like you have to do your best tothink about the allergy.
So I just sit there and thinkfor 30 minutes about trees, but
I'm, I'm telling you it worked.
Whether it's placebo or legit,I actually don't care.
I don't believe necessarily inthe science of it, I just
(07:35):
believe it worked, if that makessense.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, thanks for explaining.
I went deeper than I thought,thought, but yeah, I feel a
little embarrassed.
But listen, let's get into,let's get into some marketing,
let's get into.
So the top, what kind of?
What we wanted to talk abouttoday is something that's like
it's kind of pissing me off andirking me a little bit, but I
think it's a really like it's afunny topic.
It pisses me off, but I thinkthere's some really good
(08:02):
marketing lessons and so, ifanybody follows me, I posted
this um, this tiktok and thisinstagram video that has since
kind of blown up and gone viralto me.
Yeah, I think I've learned.
The definition of virality is300 000 views is that what
people say I think that's what,that's what I've read, and it
(08:22):
could be more and it could beless and but it's, it's got over
that now.
So it's viral for me and, um,and it was just a pretty pretty
much me breaking down how pettyUtah brands can be across all
spectrums not just e-commerce,but just just everywhere you
know.
Retail, whatever e-commerce, butjust just everywhere you know
(08:44):
retail whatever, and becausethey've been listening to our
podcast and we said to choose anenemy, yeah, maybe right, maybe
, but yeah, there's some,there's some big pettiness and
so, just just to give you aquick recap, I I really break
down three, three differentbrands who did this.
Okay, the first one was thiswas like 2022 so yeah, but let's
just be specific.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, these brands all have had billboards that
kind of clearly are playingagainst each other.
Yes, that's why you brought itup.
Yeah, yeah, it's like we callit the billboard war.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, it's not like I'm pulling something apart that
isn't intentional or not peopleknow about.
I just like if you're not inUtah you wouldn't know, I guess
right, Because you see it inUtah.
The thing about Utah is thewhole state is like connected by
one highway, like that's thedifferent, like it's it's very
interesting.
It's one highway and you reallyhave like two counties in Utah
(09:36):
that represent probably, dare Isay, 50% of the population.
I could be very wrong by thatUm Utah County and Salt Lake
County.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I mean probably like 65, 70.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, you know so so you know what I'm talking about.
But anyways, it started with acrumble cookie.
Everyone's heard of crumble,that's a nationwide brand, um,
but then there was a Utah basedcompany company called Dirty
Dough and apparently one of theguys from Dirty Dough stole A
recipe.
A recipe, well, it was a lot,it was different things, but
anyways, this guy started DirtyDough and he used to be a
(10:13):
Crumble, former Crumble employeeand Crumble Allegedly of course
.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, sued them Allegedly did these things Su.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
They were using trademark stuff and some of the
trademark stuff were really fromthe outside, looking in, seemed
silly, like hey, you can't usesprinkles on your cookies, your
boxes that you ship out look toomuch like ours, like just what
would seem like pettiness stuffand dirty dough.
Instead of being a smallbusiness, instead of like
fighting it from a lawsuitperspective and putting all
their money to like crushcrumble, they put their
(10:43):
marketing dollars to crushcrumble and it worked really
really well.
So now when you say crush, yeah, fight, listen.
Crumble did not get crushed,but crumble back down and they
settled versus like dirty dough,you're done.
Yeah, you know what they wanted.
So it's like crumble one, butalso so did dirty dough at the
same time.
So I've had tons of people comeat me.
(11:04):
I've even had I I've even hadlike some dirty, some crumble
founders come to me and like inthe, in the comments, like
they've come at me a little bit.
Okay, so that's number one.
Number two I said was a swigwhich is a soda, dirty soda
drink.
Uh, like company here in Utah.
So if you don't know anythingabout Utah, like there's not a
lot of like coffee drinkers outhere compared comparatively to
(11:29):
other states, other states, butwe love our soda, we love our
caffeine, and so there's thesedirty soda shops that are
massive out here.
That probably wouldn't bemassive it in most other states,
and the big one is called swig,and in my neck of the woods
where I live which I will notsay where there was a swig that
had been around for a while anda dirty dota, dirty dota dirty
(11:51):
soda competitor came up calledfizz, okay, with two eyes,
onesie f-i-i-z.
Okay, okay, very important.
And they, they announced theirgrand opening.
And the day they announcedtheir grand opening, what does
swig do?
Because soda has such goodmargins?
They said any soda you buy fromus is one dollar, kind of like
(12:14):
what?
What mcdonald's did?
Remember when mcdonald's didthis?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
uh, it's like well, they just did.
Every drinks a dollar everydrinks a dollar.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
that's how it was, you know, and some drinks that
they have there were five buckssomewhere, dollar fifty, you
know.
So it's like every drink was adollar.
So they did that like openingday and it crushed to the.
I mean, I don't know if this isnumbers, so anecdotally it
looked like it crushed this,like anytime you drive by fizz
and it's still going.
This has been happening, whatfor what seems like a year now
(12:41):
anytime you drive by the fizz,for this is like a year now
Anytime you drive by the Fizzfor the Swig line.
I've been in it.
I've waited in it twice becausemy kids wanted it so bad 45
minutes to get your dollardrinks, whereas Fizz won't have
a single person in the line.
I mean the line is wrappedaround.
I took video footage.
So like if you go watch myvideo, it's actual live video
footage.
I had to go actually like sothey're just across the street,
(13:04):
yeah, literally right across thestreet from each other, yep, so
so fizz does that.
And then I create another one,which was Minky couture, which
is a, which is a luxury blanketcompany, and Lola blankets,
which is an upcoming.
We've had, we've had TommyHiggum on the podcast.
Minky's been around for 10years or so and Lola's probably
been around for two to four, Ican't remember.
(13:25):
I want to say 2022.
I don't know, I feel like itwas 2022 when he came on.
I could be wrong.
So, anyways, there's a blanketwar Now.
There's these blanket warshappening because Minky used to
have all these billboards andnow Lola has better branding and
it's a little bit moreup-to-date, a little more more
up to date, a little more hipand a little bit more kind of
millennial gen z vibes and anduh, they're just exploding and
(13:48):
they're taking over all of thebillboard spots.
And so I just brought it uplike hey, this is what we do
here in utah, like this we gohard, we compete and yeah, but
also they're a little bit morelike the high fashion side.
They totally are.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, very to me what at least their positioning
makes it feel more like a luxuryfashion, yes, where Minky
Couture is a.
They haven't positionedthemselves like that.
They position themselves moreas like a family giftable very
high quality.
Yeah, family giftable blanket.
(14:20):
That's awesome, that your mom'sgoing to love and totally.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And here's the thing they coexist.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Lola has like all these models, you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Lola's like the comfort.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Lola's got some like like comfort of hoodies and
sweatshirts.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It's like all their models are beautiful.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You got some like Abercrombie and Fitch shirtless
shots.
Yeah, very Abercrombie vibe.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, exactly you know, and so this is why I want
to bring this up.
So, like one, we can get intoUtah pettiness and we'll talk
about it as much as you guyswant, because there's a ton out
here that we can go on for.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's only petty.
If people take it personal, Iguess it's true.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
But that's what I want to say.
I use the word listen.
I'll be honest with you.
I use the word pettinessbecause it was clickbait.
Okay, yes, some of it's petty,but I actually think it's all
merited, personally, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
All is fair in love and war.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, so what they say?
I I posted another piece ofcontent today about um.
I was just.
I was talking about how brandsthe best brands who win can
create organic content and viewit as top of funnel content
where they're not trying to sellpeople, and then they use their
ad strategy to retarget and toprospect um through all that.
(15:33):
And I had somebody come afterme saying oh, because one of the
brands I referenced that doesthis in a unique way is Comfort
the hoodie.
And this woman came after metoday saying oh, comfort just
copies everybody, they'regarbage, they're
da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
And so where I want to takethis Utah pettiness, comfort,
(15:55):
whatever podcast episode thatwe're talking is, everyone
copies everyone, if that's howwe're looking at it.
So you're telling me no oneelse can sell sweatpants and a
hoodie because someone elsealready did it.
That's really what this woman'ssaying.
Or blanket, or a blanket, aplush blanket, oh, they copied.
And that's what what thiswoman's saying or blanket, or a
(16:17):
blanket, a plush blanket, oh,they copied.
And that's what she did.
She had the gall to say comfort, copy the Lola blankets.
And I'm like listen, lady.
And today I woke up feeling justevil and I was like listen, you
just dug yourself a gravebecause you just said comfort
copied, copies other people.
(16:38):
Comfort copied Lola.
By your same logic, then Lolacopied Minky.
Therefore Lola's crap.
But you're talking about howmuch you like Lola.
Yeah, and I don't think Lolacopied.
I like Lola.
In fact we are Lola family,like my family is a Lola family.
We have like seven of theirblankets now.
We all love them, so I'm notsaying anything about it.
(17:00):
But like everybody gets an ideafrom somebody else, lululemon,
viore, taco Time, taco Bell,mcdonald's, wendy's, coke, pepsi
.
Wow, you didn't go Burger King,you went.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Wendy's Coke Pepsi.
Wow, you didn't go Burger King,you went Wendy's huh.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I went Wendy's, cause that's my son's favorite
restaurant.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Your son has some horrible taste.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I, I agree, I agree, I agree.
So, besides the frosty yeah,frosty is all right, that's the
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So okay, so what?
Let's?
Let's talk about this.
Is it copying like?
(18:29):
What is your tip?
What is your take on this?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
um, good question like where's the line?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
where's, where's the line?
Where's the copy line orethical?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
line okay.
Well, there's personal ethics,okay, and then there's business
ethics okay.
Some people say those are thesame thing, but sometimes
they're not sure.
Yeah, look, I guess mostcompanies are let's just call
(19:01):
this.
We'll call it what it is.
95% of companies are doingsomething that was already being
done before they came along.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So yeah, I like everyone's copying something.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Copying, inspired, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, and like even the new companies that think
they've got something unique andthen they see a competitor or
they see someone else launchsomething that's similar.
Well, there's also thephenomenon where people can have
the same idea Totally Like it'snot.
Like we live in a very bigworld, like let's just take the
(19:37):
united states.
I mean we've, we're talking 300uh, you know we can get fact
checked on this, but I thinkwe're at 330, 330 million, 330.
Okay, um, 340, we were rightthere.
And so, out of 340 million,you're talking about how many
(19:57):
people under the age of 65,let's just say like between the
ages of 18, so like you canstart a business at 18, I mean
you can do it earlier, but mostpeople aren't yeah, like 18, and
you can also do it later than65, yeah, like 18 to 50.
Right, you're talking.
You're talking probably 40 50million people.
Yeah, it's a lot of people likeyou're not that unique.
(20:19):
Well, not only in a sea of 50million people in your same
demographic that have watchedthe same movies, listen to the
same music consumes the samecontent on social media,
consumes the same contentessentially defines who you
become, right?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I don't think people realize the same books.
That's a whole otherconversation, right?
Everything we're all viewinglike that's what we become Like.
We're all becoming very similarbecause we're all connected and
watching the same videos.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, exactly, I mean , we talked about this, even
with, like, regional accents andvernaculars, kind of like
becoming one big blob of thesame thing, but anyways,
becoming one big blob of thesame thing, but anyways the the
point I'm trying to make is itdoesn't matter.
Now there are some nefariousactivities that we are aware of
(21:05):
that have happened in yeah inbusiness where people have
overstepped an ethical line ofcopying which is obtaining ips,
ip, ip information, or you knowstealing, but at the end of the
day you're not, especially ifyou're in like products, like
(21:25):
clothes or you know so, fashionor bags or you know anything
like that Anything everyday lifethat you there's not a lot of,
there's not a lot of things youcan do to secure your product in
a way that it's so unique thatit can't get copied yeah, hence
the reason why if you go try tofile a patent for anything in
(21:47):
that space, you will get deniedand I mean even if you have a
patent.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yes, it's, it's still under interpretation in the
court of law, like I mean notsaying that patents and ip, like
because we've seen people go tocourt and nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's just like a big waste of everyone's money.
Yes, because, there's nothingthere, but anyways, yeah.
So I think the point that wewant to arrive to here is yes,
there's a marketing message herethat is extremely important.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Guess what?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
yeah, people are going to have the same product,
like, whether that's yourneighbor or someone in
California or someone in NewYork, like it's going to happen,
you are, your product is nevergoing to be that unique.
Um, but guess what?
Like competitors coexist, likeBurger King and McDonald's and
that's the one I always point to, because it's just so obvious.
(22:35):
They have coexisted for a long,long time.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And, in fact, coexisting with competitors.
There is research that actuallyshows that it can boost both of
your businesses, for example.
Yes, it can.
Let me explain this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, guess what People are different Like out of
a sea of 300 million people?
Like people are gonna have verydifferent tastes totally within
that big blob of populace well,also, let's take, we'll take.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Let's take Burger King and McDonald's, and then
I'm also going to take Minky andLola and I'm going to use the
same kind of example.
Okay, this is just apsychological thing, because all
marketing is psychological,right.
So it's like if I drive, butlet's say I'm hungry, okay, and
I drive by mcdonald's, thequestion I have in my mind is
(23:28):
should I eat at home or should Iget mcdonald's?
That's it right.
Like if I like mcdonald's andI'm hungry and so it's fitting,
it's like, okay, do I?
Should I get that?
But if I see McDonald's andthen across the street I see
Burger King, now my mind goesfrom should I get McDonald's or
should I make something at home?
To which one should I get?
(23:49):
Not always, but this issomething that happens
oftentimes.
So that now the people who maynot have stopped, now that they
see two options, their mind hasshifted.
Now, oh my gosh, I have adifferent decision to make.
What do I want?
Mcdonald's today or do I wantBurger King?
I'm actually going to pickBurger King today, whereas I
(24:09):
would have normally driven homeSame thing in this blanket space
, right, you've got theseblanket wars and Miki been
around forever, and I'm not evengonna lie to you, right, like
Mickey's been around forever, Ihaven't owned a single Mickey
Ever.
Okay, I've wanted to becausethey look luxurious and they
look plush and they lookwhatever.
But now, all of a sudden, I ownseven Lola blankets.
(24:30):
And I didn't do that until Lolacame into the mix.
And now I started debatingbetween which one am I going to
get?
And then I got one, and now Ilove them and I get one for all
my kids and and we're gettingthem.
You know, it's like I got onefor my office couch, I've got
one for my outside, you know,like.
(24:52):
So I'm not saying that's alwaysscience, that that's exactly
how it works.
But we can coexist.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah and well, and there's so many.
If you're in business, you havecompetitors and like, that's
just the name of the game.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And guess what, like you said, you can differentiate
yourself through branding.
Lola and Minky have verydifferent brands, very different
brands, very different brands,and Lola's done an awesome job
of coming up with their ownstyle and their own type of
blankets, and I think they're adifferent brand.
They have a different audienceThan Minky and I think they're
(25:28):
developing a different audienceas well.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, I think that's generally what brands will do,
right?
A brand is generally whatdevelops an audience.
Yeah, right, and so, and Ithink miki's done a fantastic
job.
Like I said, miki, they own thegifting space in utah like they
own it.
I mean, people are giving thosethings as gifts every year all
the time it's awesome, it's likeoh, you had a new baby, oh,
it's christmas, oh a corporategift.
(25:51):
So you know, and lola's notdoing that, not not to say that
they can't and they won't, andmaybe they do.
Yeah and whatever.
That's business, but they'regoing after a different market
who's desiring different things.
The other thing so this is what, like the marketing lesson in
here is Is contrast.
Yeah, and it's not always aboutdifferentiating by product,
(26:18):
because differentiating byproduct, because that doesn't
always work right, like Lululemons products compared to
viewers products from adifferentiation perspective.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, just using the case study of Lola, they're not
really differentiating theirproduct at all.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, they're differentiating their
advertising.
Yeah, yeah, oh, we were justtalking about another one, 10,
like 10,000, which is a athleticathletic wear Like they went
after, like the tactical people.
They went after the jaco, the,the, the crossfit the crossfit
the type and then you have afury that's going after the west
(26:50):
coast, laid back vibe, and youhave Roan who goes after who,
the Equinox, new York,connecticut, vibe, and they all
are crushing it.
So did 10,000 copy Viorey,because Viorey was around before
(27:14):
that.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, I mean mean again everyone copies everyone.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
And where do you?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Like, try to at least , if you want to start a company
, to differentiate Somehow.
But like, everyone's copyingEveryone to some extent.
Yeah, um Um.
So how do you differentiate?
Yeah, it's your audience Likeyou.
You differentiate because whodifferentiate through marketing?
Yeah, who are you and who areyou advertising to?
(27:43):
What's your brand represent?
And brands can often representtwo different things.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, for sure, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Like Burger King and McDonald's for a long time.
I think a big differentiatorwas McDonald's always had like
the play places and the happymeals and all that stuff.
Burger King like has always.
They've kind of dabbled in that.
But like you don't think ofhappy meals, no, Like you don't
think of like driving throughyour kids.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Like, like that's what McDonald's meant was more
for family kids.
Burger King was more for, like,college students.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
High school flame broiled yeah like there's
differentiations in theirproduct too, like they're
different hamburgers, but at theend of the day, like they're
hamburgers not to say kids don'teat burger king, but yeah, yeah
, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
And another thing is we had like one of my favorite
brands that we had on thepodcast a while back was
Mountain Ops.
You remember Trevor Farnes.
So Mountain Ops is a proteinand energy company.
Yeah, you know how many proteinand energy companies are out
there, especially in Utah.
So did they copy someone?
(28:53):
Bucked up clean, simple eats,just ingredients, right, like we
can go on and on and on.
But guess who Mountain Ops'audience is?
It's hunters.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
They've built it for the outdoor community.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And even almost more specific hunters Like yes, it's
more outdoorsy, but like theirmain core market.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Which, if you remember, was not a, that was
not like an obvious thing at thebeginning.
No, a.
Uh, that was not like anobvious thing at the beginning.
No, it wasn't.
That was a, very much a yeahkind of like they evolved into
it.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, because they realized but they have green, so
they must be copying.
Yeah, it's like shut up.
So yeah, I'm.
I'm a little fiery about it,mainly because I've had hundreds
of comments of people comingout maybe and like, oh, you
support so and so or whatever,and you're just like whatever.
So the lesson here is greatmarketers understand how to
build a brand that connects witha unique audience to them.
(29:48):
So niche through audience andtailor your brand to that
audience and you can createanything.
You can go out and literallylike comfort is worth.
Well, they're worth much morethan this Comfort did $200
million over $200 million insales last year, or in the last
(30:09):
365 days in sweatpants andhoodies.
And so like that to me is themost saturated market on earth.
I, I don't, I don't know if Ican think of a more saturated.
Yeah, they're copying champion.
Yeah, yeah, exactly the copychampion.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Or tommy hillfiger, or whoever made hoodies in the
80s.
The gap, yeah, you know so, butgreat for comfort, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And will they be an everlasting big brand?
I don't know.
I hope so.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, I do too, I think they're great.
But again, how do youdifferentiate in marketing is
define your audience, defineyour brand through, through that
lens of who your audience isand I mean we just got off a
phone call of a of a companythat sells something that you
would assume skews to a youngeraudience.
(31:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot oftheir competitors are branding
for younger audience.
Totally, they, from their,their data and also from some of
their initial ads, skew older,yes, like quite a bit older,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And then the big question is well, Is that the
direction you want to go?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Which direction do you want to go?
Yeah, do you want to try toplay in this world where?
You are competing a little bitmore with your competitors, or
do you want to go Well and alsoyou're trying to maybe sell
something that Maybe the productmarket fit isn't quite as good
as the younger audience, eventhough people assume it might be
totally but everyone wants theyounger audience yeah, but the
product fits with an olderdemographic and the the
(31:45):
content's hitting likeeverything is working.
Yeah, but the big question is doyou double down on that and you
can differentiate your brand?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
just right there, yep you can differentiate, we
obviously are going to advocatefor.
Differentiation.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Differentiation, Like you're going to be the only
brand in this category going forthat older audience.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, I'd much rather fight in that place, yeah,
where everyone else is going forthe younger.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, that doesn't mean you can't have a brand that
then starts bringing in theyounger audience.
Totally Same, like with Kizik,yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, they started at old, went to pregnant and now
they're trying to go to everyone, which could end up killing
them, it totally could it, couldmaybe they, yeah, so I don't
know.
That's that's.
That's actually a good one for,like we'll see, because they
crushed it here and and word onthe street is that it's not
going growth wise the same waywhich is which is understandable
(32:41):
.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
You have to define growth Like if you had
exponential growth.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
you have exponential growth.
You don't consider always, yeah, so I don't know.
I'm very curious to watch whathappens with them.
But their whole they, they'vegotten rid of their entire, uh
like legacy team.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
That's true, so there's a little drama there.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
on linkedin, yeah, there's been some comments made
about some things happeningthere yeah, speaking of utah
brands, I'm ready for a shoecompany to come in and maybe
that's the next one.
But the next, the next pettyagain, but this is the next
petty one, that's happening?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
kizik's a shoe brand.
Did they copy nike?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
no, no, in fact, nike bought licensing from them.
Like nike didn't look at Kizikand be like you're creating an
athletic wear shoe, let's crushyou.
Like oh, just different, Likeyou did something different
Actually, can we license it?
Yeah, your technology.
So here's another one that'shappening.
We don't know exactly what'sgoing on.
I will only say good thingsabout Bilt Bar, but Bilt Bar is
(33:35):
in a legal battle right now withanother company called Blue
Unicorn, which is somebody whoalso is very similar like
Crumble to Dirty Deal Story.
From what I've heard, Somebodyonce again stole IP from Bilt,
started their own company.
That's what the lawsuit is,which I read the lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
If that's true, I do believe that is grounds for I
agree.
Yeah, if it's not true, it iswhat it is, if you're stealing
things from companies, but like,if you're just building
something, even if you'recopying, like you often have the
right to just build somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
But Bilt Bar does have a pretty like unique
formula.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And I and we've had him on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Same way, like Coca-Cola.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
There's a few better people than that guy.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So like, yeah, I'm very interested in Go to war
over there.
Formula.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, and guess what?
You also, as a founder, haveevery right to protect your
company too, right, ifsomething's coming that could,
like not just steal yourbusiness because they're better
at marketing than you, but like,hey, they're taking my ideas.
But like, hey, they're takingmy ideas, my product, my data.
(34:44):
And once again, I'm not sayingblue unicorn did this because
we'll see how that play playsout.
You have every right to do this.
Right crumble, when they, whenthey sued dirty dough even
though I loved how dirty doughapproached it and just smacked
them with the marketingcampaigns I also respected
crumble for doing it, becauseit's like you've got hundreds
and maybe thousands offranchises that you have to
protect, like you have to go tobattle.
(35:05):
Oh, yeah, you know, or elsethese people who put their hard
working money to become afranchise could be out of
business because somebody stolesomething what.
Once again, I don't know ifthey dirty-nosed it or whatever.
Like I said, it was settled.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, but the point is you understand why sometimes
you do have to take, maybe legalaction, yeah, but at the end of
the day, the line of who copiedwho?
Everyone's copying somebody orsomething or taking inspiration
from somewhere else, like we'renot all that unique.
(35:44):
Yeah, right, yeah.
And so, at the end of the day,like what's going to win is like
how you differentiate yourself.
Yeah, like lawsuits are notgenerally going to be how you
win in the long run, maybe theyare.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, put somebody out of business and you have a
short-term win but uh, it's yourbranding.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yep, your branding and your marketing and your
message and who and who youraudience actually is yeah and
like being so committed toserving that audience and it's
okay to differentiate youraudience too, right, like maybe,
if you're not differentiatedenough from people, like, think
about, does that align with yourvalues to differentiate in a
(36:24):
new way to a new audience?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Especially if you're starting out like that.
You got way more wiggle room atthe beginning.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, a lawsuit maybe saves you today, where a
branding saves you, like goodbranding saves you tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, All right, good branding saves you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, um all right, I like it.
I felt a little fiery, yeah, inthat discussion.
Fiery, I'm just fiery becauseI've had so many people come at
me for like and it was how dareyou?
Yeah, and I and I didn't evenat all in my like stuff say I
support lola 100 or I supportlike I didn't even come out and
say who I support or what.
Yeah, but you have so manypeople who are just like, how
dare you?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
so just stop.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, it's funny, it's funny worry about yourself,
stop worrying about yourcompetition.
Protect ip don't copy otherpeople's content but also then
you're good.
Yeah, protect your IP, but alsojust realize that, like you can
only do that so much yeah, likewhat is IP yeah, I mean,
(37:27):
there's a big one that we shouldprobably get into.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Like the reality is, like you can look at if you just
wanted to build something, letme just think about it right now
.
Like if I wanted to do, let'sjust say, oh, you know what?
I think it'd be really cool tostart an apple watch band
company on the internet.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah we started.
We started a golf glove companycalled asher golf is there
anything unique about apple,like apple watch bands?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
probably not.
Like I could probably go sourcesome really fast, so that's
cool.
But there's a million like whywould anyone want to buy an
apple watch band from me?
Like, well, I'd probably haveto niche it and make it unique
and whatever the brand is, likeis anyone gonna be able to sue
me?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
no no well, in 2016, we started a company called
Asher Golf, which was like golfgloves with designs and color.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Instead of the traditional white.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, and there was one other company who dominated
it called G4.
And they came at us all thetime.
How dare you copy us?
But G4 was meant for the elites, the country club, and we built
Asher at the time.
We built Asher for the weekendwarrior yeah Right, for the, for
the, for the kid who justwanted to stand out, for the kid
who wanted to differentiatehimself, not for the guy who had
(38:47):
$50 million in his bank accountwho could spend $45 on a glove,
cause that's what they chargewas $45 and we charged 25.
It came at us all the time butit's like, yes, I, they came at
us all the time.
But it's like, yes, I guess,when you look at apples to
apples, like we both madecolored golf gloves, so are we
copycats?
I guess, if that's how you'relooking at it, yes, but in no
way did I ever go on G4'swebsite and constantly be like,
(39:10):
okay, they're doing this,they're doing that, let's do
this, let's do that.
You know it was like we alwayshad a completely different
vision, but we on their and thereality is you guys rent free in
their mind, though you guysprobably started without even
thinking about them a thousand?
I actually did not, it wasprobably just.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Oh, hey it would be cool to make this product.
Didn't know they existed andyou made the same product.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah when we started it I had no idea they existed.
As somebody who is in the golfmarket like who's been golfing
my entire life- oh, I guessthere's another.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, and you'll find that all the time like, just do
that exercise.
Have you ever done that whereyou're like, uh, let's think of
a business and then just likegoogle it like it's gonna be
there.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, you're gonna find someone doing it every,
every single yeah, yeah, ofcourse someone's beat you so
someone beat them too yeah, it'sjust yeah, that's business man
so lesson learned is uh,differentiate through audience
yeah that's it, that's the like,that's the way to win, like
that's good marketing, that'sgreat marketing, actually, if
(40:09):
you can do that.
So bravo to everybody who'scrushing it.
Poo-poo to everybody who's bentout of shape that someone
copied them, because if that'show you are, you're probably
going to lose.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Usually yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
But get over it.
Protect what you can protectand move on, we're not rooting.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I mean, I think you made that clear.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
But Not rooting against anyone.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think there's a.
I think there's a.
There's room for a lot ofbusinesses.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
To do similar in the same things.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Well, also I think.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
one thing I just want to get on the record the real
fight is against drop sellersand China stealing IP.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I'm just kidding Drop sellers.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Last thing I just want on the record before we
close.
We have a big bet going on inthe office right now for the
Masters who's going to win theMasters and so I just want to
get this on the record so we canlisten to it.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
So everyone knows.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So Mark and I and another guy in our office, we
have a $100 bet going and weeach got we did a draft pick.
So we each get an american andwe each get a european.
Yeah, we do, yep.
So mark mark got pick numberone, which meant he got number
one.
I ended up getting number three, which means I got number four.
(41:31):
So it went one, two, three,four, five, six, mark, you got
scheffler, and who's yourEuropean?
Oh, shane Lowry.
Scottie Scheffler and ShaneLowry.
So the deal is we only get themoney if one of them wins.
It's not whoever was like.
If Scottie took second and Markwas the closest, he wins.
(41:52):
That doesn't work that way.
I have Xander Schauffele as myAmerican and Ludwig Oberg I
don't know if I pronounced hislast name the Swede as my
European, as my internationalround one Scotty's.
Scotty's probably.
Uh, he was doing well.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
So I don't know if any that's the record.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
When you're listening to this podcast, you will know
who won or who lost.
I just had to put it there.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Lowry has not started yet.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
All right, everybody.
Thank you so much and we willsee you guys next week.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unstoppable marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(42:43):
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
how petty Utah brands can be.
This guy started Dirty Doughand he used to be a Crumble
employee and Crumble sued thembecause they were using
trademark stuff.
And some of the trademark stuffseemed silly Like, hey, you
can't use sprinkles on yourcookies.
Your boxes that you ship outlook too much like ours.
What would seem like pettinessstuff and Dirty Dough.
Instead of like fighting itfrom a lawsuit perspective and
(00:20):
putting all their money to likecrush crumble, they put their
marketing dollars to crushcrumble and it worked really,
really well.
So now, when you say crush, yeah, fight listen, crumble did not
get crushed, but crumble backdown and they settled versus
like dirty dough, you're done.
Yeah, you know what they wanted.
So it's like crumble one, butalso so did dirty dough at the
same time.
Yo, what's going on, everybody?
(00:42):
Welcome to to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
Here with me, as always, is MrMark Goldhart.
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Good.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was like listening to a few of our episodes back
and I'm like we always like Ihave this like same intro and
then I like, almost like last 10episodes, it's like the next
thing that said it was somethingabout the weather Snowed today
or it's like spring, and Ialmost just did it again.
I almost just said we've hadgreat weather lately, which is
(01:16):
true, it is, yeah, we have truelately.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I always laugh at this time of year because
everybody in Utah it's probablylike this wherever it's snowy,
where you have long winter,where you have a little bit of
both, everyone's so excited forthe spring.
And then the second springshows up.
Just everybody's just red eyedand coughing and sneezing,
allergies, destroying their life.
It's always funny.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Not me.
I went to an allergist a wizardyeah, that's what you said.
I went to an allergist a wizard, yeah, that's what you said.
I used to have death allergiesand now I have zero.
I shouldn't say zero, it's alittle bit, I get a little.
That's the claim, that's thebig claim.
Well, if you want to you knowin a nutshell I'll give you the
TLDR in 30 seconds.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Our producer said what did they do?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It's all about energy and vibes.
Yeah, it's an NAT specialist, Ithink, and he essentially
rewired my nervous system.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
What does that?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
mean NAT?
I can't remember.
You'd have to look it up.
I can't remember.
Like a made-up title Probably,but they essentially reset your
nervous system.
I used to have wild hay fever,I'm telling you.
I could not go outside.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Okay, but reset, reset your nervous system.
I mean, you have to explainwhat that actually is.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So this is where things get like.
You might think less of me asyou hear this, so I Go into this
guy's room because if you hear,is reset your nervous system.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You're thinking like, okay, what did they?
I don't know like use someelectrodes, did they a Little?
They A little bit of that?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Did they give you drugs Like how?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
do you reset a nervous system?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So the answer might surprise you Well first of all,
let me just say this first Okay,like I said, I could not go
outside without like.
There was like a two-weekperiod where I would go outside
like with toilet paper stuffedup my nose into in a way so that
you couldn't see it Like, and Iwould just look down so that
you couldn't see up.
You know, you did havechildhood asthma right.
(03:12):
I did have childhood asthma,yeah, but later discovered that
my allergies, because ever sincethis happened, I've never had
asthma.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
That's what I was going to say, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So, anyways, my buddy tells me about this guy.
He used to be allergic to greenpeppers and he's like like
almost deathly allergic, hewould say like epi pen and he's
like now I eat green peppers allthe time.
So I'm like that's crazy.
I have been taking all sorts ofprescription drugs for this.
My life sucks for about a montha year and then another time in
(03:42):
the fall because the leavesfall and and stirs up more
pollen.
It's like a few days, you know,as the leaves fall here in utah
.
So I'm like I'll do anything,I'll pay anything for it, you
know, because you can get likeshots, but those shots can make
you infertile.
Like it's like the accutane ofyou remember accutane for acne?
Like it will get rid of youracne but you may never have kids
(04:05):
, you know.
Like the side effects are justso brutally crazy, you know.
And so I'm like why don't wantto do that?
Cause I was in the heat ofhaving children, you know,
getting ready to have children.
I think when I did this it wasprobably eight or 10 years ago.
So I go to this guy and, uh,you first take a test to
(04:25):
discover what you're allergic to, and in order to do so you have
to have a surrogate, somebodywho is pure, somebody who is,
who is not, who does not haveallergies, and essentially what
happens is you hold on to herwrist or and she holds the vial
(04:46):
of the allergen.
It's like a glass vial of theallergen and she holds her arm
up like this and I'm holding itup Like I'm raising my hand, if
you're listening and whathappens is he will push it down
and if she can resist, I'm notallergic to it.
But if it like goes down andit's weak, I'm, exist, I'm not
(05:07):
allergic to it.
But if it like goes down andit's weak, I'm, there's an
allergy there.
So that's how you discover.
So, keep in mind, I went in andI did not tell him what I was
allergic to.
There were five things that Iwas allergic to.
After I went through this wholething, we tested like 35
different things and it was likethe pollens, the trees, the
grass, you know the, the hayfever stuff, nothing else,
nothing else.
And so the way you treat it isyou hold the vial, the allergen,
(05:33):
and you can't do multiple atonce.
So if it's, if it's, if I'mjust going for tree pollens,
it's like okay, I'm holding theutah tree pollens in my hand and
he has you do these series ofthe and this is where things get
like really weird these seriesof things in his office that
you're like.
I remember when I did the firstone and I will explain it, but
I'm going to feel reallyembarrassed I remember looking
(05:54):
at him and being like this Isaid no disrespect, but I feel
like you're tricking me and youhave cameras in here, like the
papers that I signed I would.
I didn't read them and I feellike I signed the fact that you
can film me and he got so upsetwith me, like he was so offended
and could not believe that Idid that.
(06:14):
But this is what he had me do,like he's.
I was like sitting straight upand I didn't have a hat on and
he had me pant like a dog, likewith my tongue out, like this,
while him wiping my foreheadlike this for like 30 seconds.
(06:35):
But it was just a series ofthings like that, you know.
And then he was like I had myshoes off and he was doing
pressure points on my feet andon my hands and have this like
massage gun on my spine andholding my breath.
I mean, I can't remember all ofit was so long ago, but yeah,
like that it works, yeah.
And then I had to go um, sit ina room that was at a certain
(06:57):
time, at a certain temperatureon like a massage bed and you
have to sit in that room for 30minutes and you can't have a
phone, you can't have anythingelectric, you can't have, like,
any metal near you, can't haveany magnetism.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And and you can't sleep and you have to think,
like you have to do your best tothink about the allergy.
So I just sit there and thinkfor 30 minutes about trees, but
I'm, I'm telling you it worked.
Whether it's placebo or legit,I actually don't care.
I don't believe necessarily inthe science of it, I just
(07:35):
believe it worked, if that makessense.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, thanks for explaining.
I went deeper than I thought,thought, but yeah, I feel a
little embarrassed.
But listen, let's get into,let's get into some marketing,
let's get into.
So the top, what kind of?
What we wanted to talk abouttoday is something that's like
it's kind of pissing me off andirking me a little bit, but I
think it's a really like it's afunny topic.
It pisses me off, but I thinkthere's some really good
(08:02):
marketing lessons and so, ifanybody follows me, I posted
this um, this tiktok and thisinstagram video that has since
kind of blown up and gone viralto me.
Yeah, I think I've learned.
The definition of virality is300 000 views is that what
people say I think that's what,that's what I've read, and it
(08:22):
could be more and it could beless and but it's, it's got over
that now.
So it's viral for me and, um,and it was just a pretty pretty
much me breaking down how pettyUtah brands can be across all
spectrums not just e-commerce,but just just everywhere you
know.
Retail, whatever e-commerce, butjust just everywhere you know
(08:44):
retail whatever, and becausethey've been listening to our
podcast and we said to choose anenemy, yeah, maybe right, maybe
, but yeah, there's some,there's some big pettiness and
so, just just to give you aquick recap, I I really break
down three, three differentbrands who did this.
Okay, the first one was thiswas like 2022 so yeah, but let's
just be specific.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, these brands all have had billboards that
kind of clearly are playingagainst each other.
Yes, that's why you brought itup.
Yeah, yeah, it's like we callit the billboard war.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, it's not like I'm pulling something apart that
isn't intentional or not peopleknow about.
I just like if you're not inUtah you wouldn't know, I guess
right, Because you see it inUtah.
The thing about Utah is thewhole state is like connected by
one highway, like that's thedifferent, like it's it's very
interesting.
It's one highway and you reallyhave like two counties in Utah
(09:36):
that represent probably, dare Isay, 50% of the population.
I could be very wrong by thatUm Utah County and Salt Lake
County.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I mean probably like 65, 70.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, you know so so you know what I'm talking about.
But anyways, it started with acrumble cookie.
Everyone's heard of crumble,that's a nationwide brand, um,
but then there was a Utah basedcompany company called Dirty
Dough and apparently one of theguys from Dirty Dough stole A
recipe.
A recipe, well, it was a lot,it was different things, but
anyways, this guy started DirtyDough and he used to be a
(10:13):
Crumble, former Crumble employeeand Crumble Allegedly of course
.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, sued them Allegedly did these things Su.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
They were using trademark stuff and some of the
trademark stuff were really fromthe outside, looking in, seemed
silly, like hey, you can't usesprinkles on your cookies, your
boxes that you ship out look toomuch like ours, like just what
would seem like pettiness stuffand dirty dough.
Instead of being a smallbusiness, instead of like
fighting it from a lawsuitperspective and putting all
their money to like crushcrumble, they put their
(10:43):
marketing dollars to crushcrumble and it worked really
really well.
So now when you say crush, yeah, fight, listen.
Crumble did not get crushed,but crumble back down and they
settled versus like dirty dough,you're done.
Yeah, you know what they wanted.
So it's like crumble one, butalso so did dirty dough at the
same time.
So I've had tons of people comeat me.
(11:04):
I've even had I I've even hadlike some dirty, some crumble
founders come to me and like inthe, in the comments, like
they've come at me a little bit.
Okay, so that's number one.
Number two I said was a swigwhich is a soda, dirty soda
drink.
Uh, like company here in Utah.
So if you don't know anythingabout Utah, like there's not a
lot of like coffee drinkers outhere compared comparatively to
(11:29):
other states, other states, butwe love our soda, we love our
caffeine, and so there's thesedirty soda shops that are
massive out here.
That probably wouldn't bemassive it in most other states,
and the big one is called swig,and in my neck of the woods
where I live which I will notsay where there was a swig that
had been around for a while anda dirty dota, dirty dota dirty
(11:51):
soda competitor came up calledfizz, okay, with two eyes,
onesie f-i-i-z.
Okay, okay, very important.
And they, they announced theirgrand opening.
And the day they announcedtheir grand opening, what does
swig do?
Because soda has such goodmargins?
They said any soda you buy fromus is one dollar, kind of like
(12:14):
what?
What mcdonald's did?
Remember when mcdonald's didthis?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
uh, it's like well, they just did.
Every drinks a dollar everydrinks a dollar.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
that's how it was, you know, and some drinks that
they have there were five buckssomewhere, dollar fifty, you
know.
So it's like every drink was adollar.
So they did that like openingday and it crushed to the.
I mean, I don't know if this isnumbers, so anecdotally it
looked like it crushed this,like anytime you drive by fizz
and it's still going.
This has been happening, whatfor what seems like a year now
(12:41):
anytime you drive by the fizz,for this is like a year now
Anytime you drive by the Fizzfor the Swig line.
I've been in it.
I've waited in it twice becausemy kids wanted it so bad 45
minutes to get your dollardrinks, whereas Fizz won't have
a single person in the line.
I mean the line is wrappedaround.
I took video footage.
So like if you go watch myvideo, it's actual live video
footage.
I had to go actually like sothey're just across the street,
(13:04):
yeah, literally right across thestreet from each other, yep, so
so fizz does that.
And then I create another one,which was Minky couture, which
is a, which is a luxury blanketcompany, and Lola blankets,
which is an upcoming.
We've had, we've had TommyHiggum on the podcast.
Minky's been around for 10years or so and Lola's probably
been around for two to four, Ican't remember.
(13:25):
I want to say 2022.
I don't know, I feel like itwas 2022 when he came on.
I could be wrong.
So, anyways, there's a blanketwar Now.
There's these blanket warshappening because Minky used to
have all these billboards andnow Lola has better branding and
it's a little bit moreup-to-date, a little more more
up to date, a little more hipand a little bit more kind of
millennial gen z vibes and anduh, they're just exploding and
(13:48):
they're taking over all of thebillboard spots.
And so I just brought it uplike hey, this is what we do
here in utah, like this we gohard, we compete and yeah, but
also they're a little bit morelike the high fashion side.
They totally are.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, very to me what at least their positioning
makes it feel more like a luxuryfashion, yes, where Minky
Couture is a.
They haven't positionedthemselves like that.
They position themselves moreas like a family giftable very
high quality.
Yeah, family giftable blanket.
(14:20):
That's awesome, that your mom'sgoing to love and totally.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And here's the thing they coexist.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Lola has like all these models, you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Lola's like the comfort.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Lola's got some like like comfort of hoodies and
sweatshirts.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It's like all their models are beautiful.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You got some like Abercrombie and Fitch shirtless
shots.
Yeah, very Abercrombie vibe.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, exactly you know, and so this is why I want
to bring this up.
So, like one, we can get intoUtah pettiness and we'll talk
about it as much as you guyswant, because there's a ton out
here that we can go on for.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's only petty.
If people take it personal, Iguess it's true.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
But that's what I want to say.
I use the word listen.
I'll be honest with you.
I use the word pettinessbecause it was clickbait.
Okay, yes, some of it's petty,but I actually think it's all
merited, personally, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
All is fair in love and war.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, so what they say?
I I posted another piece ofcontent today about um.
I was just.
I was talking about how brandsthe best brands who win can
create organic content and viewit as top of funnel content
where they're not trying to sellpeople, and then they use their
ad strategy to retarget and toprospect um through all that.
(15:33):
And I had somebody come afterme saying oh, because one of the
brands I referenced that doesthis in a unique way is Comfort
the hoodie.
And this woman came after metoday saying oh, comfort just
copies everybody, they'regarbage, they're
da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
And so where I want to takethis Utah pettiness, comfort,
(15:55):
whatever podcast episode thatwe're talking is, everyone
copies everyone, if that's howwe're looking at it.
So you're telling me no oneelse can sell sweatpants and a
hoodie because someone elsealready did it.
That's really what this woman'ssaying.
Or blanket, or a blanket, aplush blanket, oh, they copied.
And that's what what thiswoman's saying or blanket, or a
(16:17):
blanket, a plush blanket, oh,they copied.
And that's what she did.
She had the gall to say comfort, copy the Lola blankets.
And I'm like listen, lady.
And today I woke up feeling justevil and I was like listen, you
just dug yourself a gravebecause you just said comfort
copied, copies other people.
(16:38):
Comfort copied Lola.
By your same logic, then Lolacopied Minky.
Therefore Lola's crap.
But you're talking about howmuch you like Lola.
Yeah, and I don't think Lolacopied.
I like Lola.
In fact we are Lola family,like my family is a Lola family.
We have like seven of theirblankets now.
We all love them, so I'm notsaying anything about it.
(17:00):
But like everybody gets an ideafrom somebody else, lululemon,
viore, taco Time, taco Bell,mcdonald's, wendy's, coke, pepsi
.
Wow, you didn't go Burger King,you went.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Wendy's Coke Pepsi.
Wow, you didn't go Burger King,you went Wendy's huh.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I went Wendy's, cause that's my son's favorite
restaurant.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Your son has some horrible taste.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I, I agree, I agree, I agree.
So, besides the frosty yeah,frosty is all right, that's the
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So okay, so what?
Let's?
Let's talk about this.
Is it copying like?
(18:29):
What is your tip?
What is your take on this?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
um, good question like where's the line?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
where's, where's the line?
Where's the copy line orethical?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
line okay.
Well, there's personal ethics,okay, and then there's business
ethics okay.
Some people say those are thesame thing, but sometimes
they're not sure.
Yeah, look, I guess mostcompanies are let's just call
(19:01):
this.
We'll call it what it is.
95% of companies are doingsomething that was already being
done before they came along.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So yeah, I like everyone's copying something.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Copying, inspired, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, and like even the new companies that think
they've got something unique andthen they see a competitor or
they see someone else launchsomething that's similar.
Well, there's also thephenomenon where people can have
the same idea Totally Like it'snot.
Like we live in a very bigworld, like let's just take the
(19:37):
united states.
I mean we've, we're talking 300uh, you know we can get fact
checked on this, but I thinkwe're at 330, 330 million, 330.
Okay, um, 340, we were rightthere.
And so, out of 340 million,you're talking about how many
(19:57):
people under the age of 65,let's just say like between the
ages of 18, so like you canstart a business at 18, I mean
you can do it earlier, but mostpeople aren't yeah, like 18, and
you can also do it later than65, yeah, like 18 to 50.
Right, you're talking.
You're talking probably 40 50million people.
Yeah, it's a lot of people likeyou're not that unique.
(20:19):
Well, not only in a sea of 50million people in your same
demographic that have watchedthe same movies, listen to the
same music consumes the samecontent on social media,
consumes the same contentessentially defines who you
become, right?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I don't think people realize the same books.
That's a whole otherconversation, right?
Everything we're all viewinglike that's what we become Like.
We're all becoming very similarbecause we're all connected and
watching the same videos.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, exactly, I mean , we talked about this, even
with, like, regional accents andvernaculars, kind of like
becoming one big blob of thesame thing, but anyways,
becoming one big blob of thesame thing, but anyways the the
point I'm trying to make is itdoesn't matter.
Now there are some nefariousactivities that we are aware of
(21:05):
that have happened in yeah inbusiness where people have
overstepped an ethical line ofcopying which is obtaining ips,
ip, ip information, or you knowstealing, but at the end of the
day you're not, especially ifyou're in like products, like
(21:25):
clothes or you know so, fashionor bags or you know anything
like that Anything everyday lifethat you there's not a lot of,
there's not a lot of things youcan do to secure your product in
a way that it's so unique thatit can't get copied yeah, hence
the reason why if you go try tofile a patent for anything in
(21:47):
that space, you will get deniedand I mean even if you have a
patent.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yes, it's, it's still under interpretation in the
court of law, like I mean notsaying that patents and ip, like
because we've seen people go tocourt and nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's just like a big waste of everyone's money.
Yes, because, there's nothingthere, but anyways, yeah.
So I think the point that wewant to arrive to here is yes,
there's a marketing message herethat is extremely important.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Guess what?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
yeah, people are going to have the same product,
like, whether that's yourneighbor or someone in
California or someone in NewYork, like it's going to happen,
you are, your product is nevergoing to be that unique.
Um, but guess what?
Like competitors coexist, likeBurger King and McDonald's and
that's the one I always point to, because it's just so obvious.
(22:35):
They have coexisted for a long,long time.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And, in fact, coexisting with competitors.
There is research that actuallyshows that it can boost both of
your businesses, for example.
Yes, it can.
Let me explain this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, guess what People are different Like out of
a sea of 300 million people?
Like people are gonna have verydifferent tastes totally within
that big blob of populace well,also, let's take, we'll take.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Let's take Burger King and McDonald's, and then
I'm also going to take Minky andLola and I'm going to use the
same kind of example.
Okay, this is just apsychological thing, because all
marketing is psychological,right.
So it's like if I drive, butlet's say I'm hungry, okay, and
I drive by mcdonald's, thequestion I have in my mind is
(23:28):
should I eat at home or should Iget mcdonald's?
That's it right.
Like if I like mcdonald's andI'm hungry and so it's fitting,
it's like, okay, do I?
Should I get that?
But if I see McDonald's andthen across the street I see
Burger King, now my mind goesfrom should I get McDonald's or
should I make something at home?
To which one should I get?
(23:49):
Not always, but this issomething that happens
oftentimes.
So that now the people who maynot have stopped, now that they
see two options, their mind hasshifted.
Now, oh my gosh, I have adifferent decision to make.
What do I want?
Mcdonald's today or do I wantBurger King?
I'm actually going to pickBurger King today, whereas I
(24:09):
would have normally driven homeSame thing in this blanket space
, right, you've got theseblanket wars and Miki been
around forever, and I'm not evengonna lie to you, right, like
Mickey's been around forever, Ihaven't owned a single Mickey
Ever.
Okay, I've wanted to becausethey look luxurious and they
look plush and they lookwhatever.
But now, all of a sudden, I ownseven Lola blankets.
(24:30):
And I didn't do that until Lolacame into the mix.
And now I started debatingbetween which one am I going to
get?
And then I got one, and now Ilove them and I get one for all
my kids and and we're gettingthem.
You know, it's like I got onefor my office couch, I've got
one for my outside, you know,like.
(24:52):
So I'm not saying that's alwaysscience, that that's exactly
how it works.
But we can coexist.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah and well, and there's so many.
If you're in business, you havecompetitors and like, that's
just the name of the game.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And guess what, like you said, you can differentiate
yourself through branding.
Lola and Minky have verydifferent brands, very different
brands, very different brands,and Lola's done an awesome job
of coming up with their ownstyle and their own type of
blankets, and I think they're adifferent brand.
They have a different audienceThan Minky and I think they're
(25:28):
developing a different audienceas well.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, I think that's generally what brands will do,
right?
A brand is generally whatdevelops an audience.
Yeah, right, and so, and Ithink miki's done a fantastic
job.
Like I said, miki, they own thegifting space in utah like they
own it.
I mean, people are giving thosethings as gifts every year all
the time it's awesome, it's likeoh, you had a new baby, oh,
it's christmas, oh a corporategift.
(25:51):
So you know, and lola's notdoing that, not not to say that
they can't and they won't, andmaybe they do.
Yeah and whatever.
That's business, but they'regoing after a different market
who's desiring different things.
The other thing so this is what, like the marketing lesson in
here is Is contrast.
Yeah, and it's not always aboutdifferentiating by product,
(26:18):
because differentiating byproduct, because that doesn't
always work right, like Lululemons products compared to
viewers products from adifferentiation perspective.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, just using the case study of Lola, they're not
really differentiating theirproduct at all.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, they're differentiating their
advertising.
Yeah, yeah, oh, we were justtalking about another one, 10,
like 10,000, which is a athleticathletic wear Like they went
after, like the tactical people.
They went after the jaco, the,the, the crossfit the crossfit
the type and then you have afury that's going after the west
(26:50):
coast, laid back vibe, and youhave Roan who goes after who,
the Equinox, new York,connecticut, vibe, and they all
are crushing it.
So did 10,000 copy Viorey,because Viorey was around before
(27:14):
that.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, I mean mean again everyone copies everyone.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
And where do you?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Like, try to at least , if you want to start a company
, to differentiate Somehow.
But like, everyone's copyingEveryone to some extent.
Yeah, um Um.
So how do you differentiate?
Yeah, it's your audience Likeyou.
You differentiate because whodifferentiate through marketing?
Yeah, who are you and who areyou advertising to?
(27:43):
What's your brand represent?
And brands can often representtwo different things.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, for sure, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Like Burger King and McDonald's for a long time.
I think a big differentiatorwas McDonald's always had like
the play places and the happymeals and all that stuff.
Burger King like has always.
They've kind of dabbled in that.
But like you don't think ofhappy meals, no, Like you don't
think of like driving throughyour kids.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Like, like that's what McDonald's meant was more
for family kids.
Burger King was more for, like,college students.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
High school flame broiled yeah like there's
differentiations in theirproduct too, like they're
different hamburgers, but at theend of the day, like they're
hamburgers not to say kids don'teat burger king, but yeah, yeah
, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
And another thing is we had like one of my favorite
brands that we had on thepodcast a while back was
Mountain Ops.
You remember Trevor Farnes.
So Mountain Ops is a proteinand energy company.
Yeah, you know how many proteinand energy companies are out
there, especially in Utah.
So did they copy someone?
(28:53):
Bucked up clean, simple eats,just ingredients, right, like we
can go on and on and on.
But guess who Mountain Ops'audience is?
It's hunters.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
They've built it for the outdoor community.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And even almost more specific hunters Like yes, it's
more outdoorsy, but like theirmain core market.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Which, if you remember, was not a, that was
not like an obvious thing at thebeginning.
No, a.
Uh, that was not like anobvious thing at the beginning.
No, it wasn't.
That was a, very much a yeahkind of like they evolved into
it.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, because they realized but they have green, so
they must be copying.
Yeah, it's like shut up.
So yeah, I'm.
I'm a little fiery about it,mainly because I've had hundreds
of comments of people comingout maybe and like, oh, you
support so and so or whatever,and you're just like whatever.
So the lesson here is greatmarketers understand how to
build a brand that connects witha unique audience to them.
(29:48):
So niche through audience andtailor your brand to that
audience and you can createanything.
You can go out and literallylike comfort is worth.
Well, they're worth much morethan this Comfort did $200
million over $200 million insales last year, or in the last
(30:09):
365 days in sweatpants andhoodies.
And so like that to me is themost saturated market on earth.
I, I don't, I don't know if Ican think of a more saturated.
Yeah, they're copying champion.
Yeah, yeah, exactly the copychampion.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Or tommy hillfiger, or whoever made hoodies in the
80s.
The gap, yeah, you know so, butgreat for comfort, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And will they be an everlasting big brand?
I don't know.
I hope so.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, I do too, I think they're great.
But again, how do youdifferentiate in marketing is
define your audience, defineyour brand through, through that
lens of who your audience isand I mean we just got off a
phone call of a of a companythat sells something that you
would assume skews to a youngeraudience.
(31:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot oftheir competitors are branding
for younger audience.
Totally, they, from their,their data and also from some of
their initial ads, skew older,yes, like quite a bit older,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And then the big question is well, Is that the
direction you want to go?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Which direction do you want to go?
Yeah, do you want to try toplay in this world where?
You are competing a little bitmore with your competitors, or
do you want to go Well and alsoyou're trying to maybe sell
something that Maybe the productmarket fit isn't quite as good
as the younger audience, eventhough people assume it might be
totally but everyone wants theyounger audience yeah, but the
product fits with an olderdemographic and the the
(31:45):
content's hitting likeeverything is working.
Yeah, but the big question is doyou double down on that and you
can differentiate your brand?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
just right there, yep you can differentiate, we
obviously are going to advocatefor.
Differentiation.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Differentiation, Like you're going to be the only
brand in this category going forthat older audience.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, I'd much rather fight in that place, yeah,
where everyone else is going forthe younger.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, that doesn't mean you can't have a brand that
then starts bringing in theyounger audience.
Totally Same, like with Kizik,yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, they started at old, went to pregnant and now
they're trying to go to everyone, which could end up killing
them, it totally could it, couldmaybe they, yeah, so I don't
know.
That's that's.
That's actually a good one for,like we'll see, because they
crushed it here and and word onthe street is that it's not
going growth wise the same waywhich is which is understandable
(32:41):
.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
You have to define growth Like if you had
exponential growth.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
you have exponential growth.
You don't consider always, yeah, so I don't know.
I'm very curious to watch whathappens with them.
But their whole they, they'vegotten rid of their entire, uh
like legacy team.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
That's true, so there's a little drama there.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
on linkedin, yeah, there's been some comments made
about some things happeningthere yeah, speaking of utah
brands, I'm ready for a shoecompany to come in and maybe
that's the next one.
But the next, the next pettyagain, but this is the next
petty one, that's happening?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
kizik's a shoe brand.
Did they copy nike?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
no, no, in fact, nike bought licensing from them.
Like nike didn't look at Kizikand be like you're creating an
athletic wear shoe, let's crushyou.
Like oh, just different, Likeyou did something different
Actually, can we license it?
Yeah, your technology.
So here's another one that'shappening.
We don't know exactly what'sgoing on.
I will only say good thingsabout Bilt Bar, but Bilt Bar is
(33:35):
in a legal battle right now withanother company called Blue
Unicorn, which is somebody whoalso is very similar like
Crumble to Dirty Deal Story.
From what I've heard, Somebodyonce again stole IP from Bilt,
started their own company.
That's what the lawsuit is,which I read the lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
If that's true, I do believe that is grounds for I
agree.
Yeah, if it's not true, it iswhat it is, if you're stealing
things from companies, but like,if you're just building
something, even if you'recopying, like you often have the
right to just build somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
But Bilt Bar does have a pretty like unique
formula.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And I and we've had him on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Same way, like Coca-Cola.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
There's a few better people than that guy.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So like, yeah, I'm very interested in Go to war
over there.
Formula.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, and guess what?
You also, as a founder, haveevery right to protect your
company too, right, ifsomething's coming that could,
like not just steal yourbusiness because they're better
at marketing than you, but like,hey, they're taking my ideas.
But like, hey, they're takingmy ideas, my product, my data.
(34:44):
And once again, I'm not sayingblue unicorn did this because
we'll see how that play playsout.
You have every right to do this.
Right crumble, when they, whenthey sued dirty dough even
though I loved how dirty doughapproached it and just smacked
them with the marketingcampaigns I also respected
crumble for doing it, becauseit's like you've got hundreds
and maybe thousands offranchises that you have to
protect, like you have to go tobattle.
(35:05):
Oh, yeah, you know, or elsethese people who put their hard
working money to become afranchise could be out of
business because somebody stolesomething what.
Once again, I don't know ifthey dirty-nosed it or whatever.
Like I said, it was settled.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, but the point is you understand why sometimes
you do have to take, maybe legalaction, yeah, but at the end of
the day, the line of who copiedwho?
Everyone's copying somebody orsomething or taking inspiration
from somewhere else, like we'renot all that unique.
(35:44):
Yeah, right, yeah.
And so, at the end of the day,like what's going to win is like
how you differentiate yourself.
Yeah, like lawsuits are notgenerally going to be how you
win in the long run, maybe theyare.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, put somebody out of business and you have a
short-term win but uh, it's yourbranding.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yep, your branding and your marketing and your
message and who and who youraudience actually is yeah and
like being so committed toserving that audience and it's
okay to differentiate youraudience too, right, like maybe,
if you're not differentiatedenough from people, like, think
about, does that align with yourvalues to differentiate in a
(36:24):
new way to a new audience?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Especially if you're starting out like that.
You got way more wiggle room atthe beginning.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, a lawsuit maybe saves you today, where a
branding saves you, like goodbranding saves you tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, All right, good branding saves you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, um all right, I like it.
I felt a little fiery, yeah, inthat discussion.
Fiery, I'm just fiery becauseI've had so many people come at
me for like and it was how dareyou?
Yeah, and I and I didn't evenat all in my like stuff say I
support lola 100 or I supportlike I didn't even come out and
say who I support or what.
Yeah, but you have so manypeople who are just like, how
dare you?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
so just stop.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, it's funny, it's funny worry about yourself,
stop worrying about yourcompetition.
Protect ip don't copy otherpeople's content but also then
you're good.
Yeah, protect your IP, but alsojust realize that, like you can
only do that so much yeah, likewhat is IP yeah, I mean,
(37:27):
there's a big one that we shouldprobably get into.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Like the reality is, like you can look at if you just
wanted to build something, letme just think about it right now
.
Like if I wanted to do, let'sjust say, oh, you know what?
I think it'd be really cool tostart an apple watch band
company on the internet.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah we started.
We started a golf glove companycalled asher golf is there
anything unique about apple,like apple watch bands?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
probably not.
Like I could probably go sourcesome really fast, so that's
cool.
But there's a million like whywould anyone want to buy an
apple watch band from me?
Like, well, I'd probably haveto niche it and make it unique
and whatever the brand is, likeis anyone gonna be able to sue
me?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
no no well, in 2016, we started a company called
Asher Golf, which was like golfgloves with designs and color.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Instead of the traditional white.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, and there was one other company who dominated
it called G4.
And they came at us all thetime.
How dare you copy us?
But G4 was meant for the elites, the country club, and we built
Asher at the time.
We built Asher for the weekendwarrior yeah Right, for the, for
the, for the kid who justwanted to stand out, for the kid
who wanted to differentiatehimself, not for the guy who had
(38:47):
$50 million in his bank accountwho could spend $45 on a glove,
cause that's what they chargewas $45 and we charged 25.
It came at us all the time butit's like, yes, I, they came at
us all the time.
But it's like, yes, I guess,when you look at apples to
apples, like we both madecolored golf gloves, so are we
copycats?
I guess, if that's how you'relooking at it, yes, but in no
way did I ever go on G4'swebsite and constantly be like,
(39:10):
okay, they're doing this,they're doing that, let's do
this, let's do that.
You know it was like we alwayshad a completely different
vision, but we on their and thereality is you guys rent free in
their mind, though you guysprobably started without even
thinking about them a thousand?
I actually did not, it wasprobably just.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Oh, hey it would be cool to make this product.
Didn't know they existed andyou made the same product.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah when we started it I had no idea they existed.
As somebody who is in the golfmarket like who's been golfing
my entire life- oh, I guessthere's another.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, and you'll find that all the time like, just do
that exercise.
Have you ever done that whereyou're like, uh, let's think of
a business and then just likegoogle it like it's gonna be
there.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, you're gonna find someone doing it every,
every single yeah, yeah, ofcourse someone's beat you so
someone beat them too yeah, it'sjust yeah, that's business man
so lesson learned is uh,differentiate through audience
yeah that's it, that's the like,that's the way to win, like
that's good marketing, that'sgreat marketing, actually, if
(40:09):
you can do that.
So bravo to everybody who'scrushing it.
Poo-poo to everybody who's bentout of shape that someone
copied them, because if that'show you are, you're probably
going to lose.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Usually yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
But get over it.
Protect what you can protectand move on, we're not rooting.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I mean, I think you made that clear.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
But Not rooting against anyone.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think there's a.
I think there's a.
There's room for a lot ofbusinesses.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
To do similar in the same things.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Well, also I think.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
one thing I just want to get on the record the real
fight is against drop sellersand China stealing IP.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I'm just kidding Drop sellers.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Last thing I just want on the record before we
close.
We have a big bet going on inthe office right now for the
Masters who's going to win theMasters and so I just want to
get this on the record so we canlisten to it.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
So everyone knows.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
So Mark and I and another guy in our office, we
have a $100 bet going and weeach got we did a draft pick.
So we each get an american andwe each get a european.
Yeah, we do, yep.
So mark mark got pick numberone, which meant he got number
one.
I ended up getting number three, which means I got number four.
(41:31):
So it went one, two, three,four, five, six, mark, you got
scheffler, and who's yourEuropean?
Oh, shane Lowry.
Scottie Scheffler and ShaneLowry.
So the deal is we only get themoney if one of them wins.
It's not whoever was like.
If Scottie took second and Markwas the closest, he wins.
(41:52):
That doesn't work that way.
I have Xander Schauffele as myAmerican and Ludwig Oberg I
don't know if I pronounced hislast name the Swede as my
European, as my internationalround one Scotty's.
Scotty's probably.
Uh, he was doing well.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
So I don't know if any that's the record.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
When you're listening to this podcast, you will know
who won or who lost.
I just had to put it there.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Lowry has not started yet.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
All right, everybody.
Thank you so much and we willsee you guys next week.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unstoppable marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(42:43):
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
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