April 22, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the Unstoppable Marketer podcast, hosts Mark Goldheart and Trevor Crump discuss the current state of major marketing platforms, including Google, Meta, and TikTok. They share insights on what's working and what's not in digital advertising, with a focus on the challenges and opportunities in Meta's evolving landscape. The hosts also touch on the importance of reach, effective messaging, and adapting to changing user behaviors across different platforms.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Meta has just been the worst.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It's still the best platform to grow.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In terms of trajectory, it's been just awful
.
Just don't ever trust any ofthe things Meta tells you to do.
Kind of that simple yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The new programs.
They have the reps that callyou to tell you to do X, y, z.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We just A-B tested their new incrementality setting
and it was just awful.
I mean, it literally tanked anaccount for five days, cut the
conversion rate in half, andthat just happens every time
they roll out something new.
Just be careful with it.
Like I kind of was hoping thistime it would be different, but
it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me, as always, is Markgoldhart.
Mark goldhart, how are youtoday?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I'm uh well good spring is here spring is here.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We always talk about the weather.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
It's just oh, it's so nice, though so sick of the
weather, so sick of winter.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, I feel like we're getting like way spoiled.
I feel like things areblossoming.
We went to the Tulip Festivalyesterday.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, I mean we'll have like one more snowstorm
that just sneaks in and kickseveryone in the nuts.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's supposed to rain tomorrow and potentially get
cooler, so I'm wondering ifmaybe tomorrow could be it.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's cranking down a little.
It usually happens like rightwhen May starts.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
But anyways, uh, I had to go camping.
Use your Haven tent.
Um, well, I do have the trailer, but we'll bust it out.
Bust it out, see what happensFor a little naps, little nap
ski in the, in the shade.
We're going to go visit some,uh, hot springs.
Nice, detox the skin apparently.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Apparently, they're very good for you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Down in Farmington.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
These ones are out in .
These ones are out in the open,out in Delta Nice.
You can get there before youcan get to some of the higher
ones, oh really, but I thinkI'll take a day go do an offsite
there yeah, you've been wantingto take us all out to Delta and
(02:16):
do that you keep talking aboutit be fun, man we'll do it one
day.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I know we'll do it one day.
What are we talking about today, man?
Listen, we're feeling a littlegrumpy is not the right word.
A lot going on with ourbusinesses yeah, there's a lot
we want to be here, but we wishthat well.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Sometimes it feels more feels like we are
repetitive yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Which.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I get.
That's just a true story.
Is that everyone is repetitive?
Yeah, I had this coach who wasin the Hall of Fame and stuff
and whatever Great guy.
But my second year on the teamI realized that he repeated like
all the same things I was likewait a second, you're really
(03:11):
inspirational.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
My sophomore year.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
It was still inspirational, but I just
realized that, yeah, you got torepeat yourself and as a brand,
you got to repeat yourself a lot.
Yeah, no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
And we're just like we're just being open.
The reason why we're feeling alittle grumpy, and you know,
it's just because sometimes wefeel like we're just saying the
same thing over and over again.
You know which we are, which isimportant, which is hard for me
, and here's the thing it Likemost of the time.
Like, let's be honest, welisten to podcast episodes, we
read books, we feel inspired andexcited, but how often are we
(03:50):
taking action?
So yeah, it's good to hear thosethings but sometimes we feel
like, oh man, we just talkedabout this, should we talk about
it again?
So it would be also very niceto get a little feedback from
you guys to be like, yes,continue on, but we have some
other things up our sleeves.
But today we're going to trynot to do that.
We're going to kind of justgive like we thought it might be
(04:11):
a good idea to give a littlestate of the union on where we
are at with different marketingchannels channels, how are
different?
marketing channels impactingbusinesses from an effectiveness
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would likeyou to start with your story
about Gary Vaynerchuk, what youhad said and like how this
(04:35):
conversation oh yeah, yeah, garyV, gary V, gary Vaynerchuk,
who's used to be everything andnow is he even.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
He still is obviously .
Well, yeah, still is obviously.
Yeah, he is.
No, he's not like the, uh, he'snot really the flag bearer of
like entrepreneurship andbusiness.
I think it's more of that, likeAlex Hermosi you think he is I.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm so out of touch with books.
I think that's who people.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the guy that people look
to now Okay, Um, yeah, Gary V.
Okay, this is.
Let me preface this with.
Saying this is not to say thatGary V is totally wrong in the
medium to longterm.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, cause he's a smart guy, he's, we're not
saying he's.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
But I noticed something when he was speaking
to an audience and I thought ehkind of true, kind of not, but
anyways, it's about Google.
So his comment was about how, Ithink, he asks everyone like,
raise your hand if you go toGoogle or if you go to chat GPT
first.
And most people went to chatGPTpt and he kind of just was
(05:47):
explaining how search is dead.
Yeah, and and I could be lookat the clip in this, yeah, I
could be twisting the words alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
This is just memory.
Sorry, you probably didn'twatch the whole thing, you just
watched this.
I've watched this clip.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, I didn't watch like the whole speech bin.
And again, I think Gary Vee hasbeen right about a lot of
things and so I'm not sayinghe's wrong.
He was really right about.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
NFTs yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
That's a joke yeah.
That was a big joke, but he'sgotten some of the trends right.
He obviously has gotten sometrends right and he's smart and
he's in it of the trends right.
You know, like he obviously hasgotten some trends right and
he's smart and he's Like in itand A smart guy.
But Everyone raised his hand.
He's like see, search is likedead.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And after the comments I was thinking Because
the reason why he said that isbecause most People raise their
hands and like Chat.
Gpt for questions but.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
The reality is he's talking to a bunch of marketers,
and so I think some people aretaking that message whether that
was his intended message or notand thinking, oh, I Google and
search, well, it doesn't matteranymore, like you have to go all
in on social, which is probablytrue in the long run.
However, you know you have toaccount for the fact that people
have a 20 year built in habitof going to Google first.
(07:07):
Yeah, okay, so he's talking toa room of people that paid to
see him.
So they're they're probablymore willing to try new things,
right, they're probably firstadopters with certain
technologies and marketing.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
People who've been listening to him for a while.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, and so, yeah, they're all in chat Mentality
anyways.
Yeah, who've been listening tohim for a while?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
yeah and so, yeah, they're all in chat.
Gpt mentality anyways, yeah,and that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
But um, most like my wife.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
There's tons of people that are going to google
first for products, like they'renot going to chat gpt and
asking me as somebody who useschat gpt or sorry, I use chat
gpt daily, several times a day,yeah, or some sort of form of ai
, whether that's gemini, chat,gpt, grok, whatever but if
you're searching for a product,but I never use chat gpt for
(07:55):
product searches unless I'm nowwanting to evaluate them, so,
like what I'll do?
Like I'm huge into tennis andso I'm constantly, like, very
interested in shoes and rackets.
I'm super, super interested inshoes and rackets because those
two things are the things thathelp me perform the most that I
can feel, and so I will do myresearch on Google on shoes and
(08:17):
then I will plug all thatinformation over into ChatGPT.
A lot to say, hey, can you giveme a breakdown here?
These are the four things I'mlooking for.
Based off of these five shoes,which one would you recommend?
yes but you're not.
But I'm never starting at chatgpt because that I mean chat.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Gpt isn't even built for that.
Maybe in the future it might be, but people are still going to
google and so we see a lot ofnegativity around google
oftentimes.
I mean and we're not these bigtime Google ads advocates
necessarily either, because wethink it's very contextual,
depending on your business andwhat you're in but over the last
(08:57):
six months, the only adplatform that I think has
actually made any improvementsis Google.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So that's my hot take .
I think Google has been great,like we've been running a lot of
Google campaigns.
Yeah, a lot of video stuff,google.
Youtube as well as well, inthat umbrella, yep and YouTube
is always going to have just theworst in-platform attribution
you can imagine, right and again, this depends on your brand too
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Worse than.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Pinterest In-house attribution.
Yeah yeah, youtube has theworst.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Like in-platform attribution it's going to
under-re?
Yeah, just by 95, probably.
It's.
Yeah, it's a horrible.
So it looks bad, but, like,you'll see everything else rise
with it if you're doing it theright way.
So, and p max has gotten better.
So p max campaigns have gottenbetter.
Shopping campaigns we're havingsuccess with, like, we're
(10:01):
having success in a lot ofgoogle stuff.
That's not only doing what itused to do, but also getting
better from an incrementalitystandpoint yeah, for sure um, so
we, we are I don't want to saybullish, because there's just
only so much in google,especially on the search and
shopping side, there's only somuch to capture because you have
to depend on people searchingfor what it is um you still have
(10:23):
to be manufacturing demand inorder for that to work.
Yes and right, but that's wheredemand gen has been a pleasant
surprise, so we're gonna havemore to report on that.
But the new demand gencampaigns, which used to be the,
the video campaigns like uh,are doing wonderful.
Yeah, it also allows you todesignate like shorts versus
just youtube videos, so you cankind of go into YouTube shorts
(10:46):
and YouTube videos once again inplatform tracking is terrible
for, yeah, you got it.
You got to be usingpost-purchase surveys and either
, if you need to get reallytechnical, depending on your
consideration cycle.
There's North beam yeah, um,triple wells out there, but, but
(11:06):
honestly it, yeah, we've beenreally pleased with google.
Um, google and youtube yeah,the the few people that we've
used it with, I mean it is it ismaking a huge dent in their
bottom line.
Like we've put 30 percent ofbudget into a youtube campaign
(11:27):
or a demand gen campaign.
Um, you know, we have ourstrategies there and even though
the demand gen campaign says itgets a point, the ROAS on it is
0.13 or something like that.
Right, that's what it'sreporting, right, but it is
(11:48):
causing a 50 60 lift in newcustomer sales and in
conversions in pmax andconversions in pmax.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So yeah, pmax budget doesn't go up, that goes up.
Conversions go up everywhereindirect channel.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So, like it's, it's getting new people, it's getting
eyeballs right, getting reallygood interactions.
Like we're, we're super happywith those results and anyways,
yeah, so good job, google.
Like you're the only one whoisn't screwing it totally up
right now yeah although threeyears ago you kind of did.
But we forgive you, Meta.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Meta.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Has just been the worst.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
It's still the best platform to grow.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
In terms of trajectory, it's been just awful
.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah seems, buggy seems.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
And it's usually awful, and I I'm gonna say this
out loud I try not to be too bigof a negative nancy when it
comes to meta, but just don'tever trust any of the things
meta tells you to do.
It's kind of that simple, yeahthe new programs.
They have the, so we yeah wejust ab tested their new
(13:06):
incrementality setting and itwas just awful.
I mean it literally tanked anaccount for five days.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Cut the conversion rate in half.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yes, so like the AB test, like the side of the
incrementality was it wreckedconversion rates, it was not
driving like and this is, thisis a brand that doesn't have a
big consideration cycle, so likeyou can just see it like one
day after another yeah, thereason why he brings that up
consideration cycle is becausesometimes like you might need to
(13:39):
give it longer oh yeah, you gotto give it 30 days, but this is
a product whose AOV is under$50, $60, right, mm-hmm?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You know, like consideration window is it's a
very problem solution typeproduct, so it's not like you
buy, you don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, exactly so we, and that just happens Every time
they roll out something new.
Just be careful with it.
Yeah, Like I kind of was hopingthis time it would be different
, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
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Yeah, especially right now, itseems like there has been just
so like.
It seems like the.
Once again, everything we'resaying.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Meta is still the best platform right now, we
believe, for some, for growth,for business for brands, for
most brands, yeah, for most sure, for most brands, although we
have a few where Google is thebest channel.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
So yeah, and there's a few where TikTok is too right.
So, but so everything I'msaying is I understand that we
still believe Matt is a greatchannel.
It just seems like over thelast six to 12 months it's just
been inconsistent.
Things you thought would work,things that were once working,
(15:40):
no longer are.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
And then things that weren't working now start to
work.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
It just seems way more finicky in the past and,
and, uh, our tried and truemethods are the ones that are
still working the best.
Yeah, but every time we trysomething that they claim works
better, you know, whatever, itjust never does.
And the best example I can comeup with is if you use ChatGPT,
(16:10):
you'll notice that it kind oflatches on to certain things in
your conversation too much andit starts bleeding it all
together and starts giving yousome discombobulated responses.
Sure, I'm just wondering ifsomething like that's happening
within the AI algorithms of meta.
Yeah, where it's just latchingonto stuff.
It's just having a harder timereaching new people with, with,
(16:34):
uh, with certain optimizationsettings, and so you're getting
stuck with just like higherfrequencies and, if you don't
catch it, or, uh you know, justlike worse and worse conversion
rates too, coming from meta.
Now there's macro stuffhappening.
We like to be open about thepossibility of macro effects.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I know some people on Twitter say that's a big red
flag if an agency mentions macroeconomy factors.
But it's a big red flag ifyou're not trying to do anything
about it.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That's their excuse for everything.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yes, but like to not acknowledge that you have to
just acknowledge, like the waythe wind is blowing that's so
stupid.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Who said that so?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
well, I'm sure I'm just reading.
You know it's just Twitter, sothey're.
They're probably meaning it inthe same way you're saying it.
That's my assumption.
Yeah, but, but to me, a golfcaddy has to acknowledge the way
the wind is blowing, right,yeah, like you're not just like
(17:45):
it doesn't matter, just hit itstraight at the hole.
Like I'm just going straight atthe hole every time.
Right, like you have toacknowledge environmental
factors.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's a good metaphor.
That's a really good metaphorBecause you can play golf on the
coast.
That has I remember.
I remember my first time everplaying golf yeah, and I had a
not ever to play at a uh, when Ihad a caddy.
And I remember a very specificmoment where I was hitting a
ball into the coast, like thehole was literally right on the
(18:17):
coast.
You know, I could throw thegolf ball from the green in the
water if I wanted to and he saidthe wind blows so heavily in
from the from the ocean to thecoast that I remember I was like
130 yards out, which would be apitching wedge for me, and he's
like hit an eight iron an eightiron and I'm like that's crazy
(18:40):
man.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Not even a, not even a hit an eight iron.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
And sure enough I hit an eight iron and I was like
front short of the green, youknow wow.
So I hit it 30 yards less thanI normally would hit an eight
iron because the wind wasblowing because the wind was
blowing so hard.
So yeah, you have to.
You can't just say hit itstraight out.
You can't just say hit itstraight at it.
You can't just say hit it right.
You know like.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Like don't do anything?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, so you have to acknowledge macro stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So what I'm saying is you have to acknowledge that
there's macro things happening.
What you can't do is just belike, well, we're just not going
to make any adjustments, basedoff of the fact that this is
only macro stuff, there'snothing we can do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like youstill have to be trying to do
things better.
Yeah, you have to fight throughit, yeah, but yeah, the meta
stuff is frustrating becausethey just it just seems like
(19:29):
they're trying to fix somethingthat was working great.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Or trying to make something better that they broke
.
Yeah, like just the old uhidiom don't don't fix what's not
broke.
Did you see that clip from uhzuckerberg talking about how
little time he spends in the adplatform?
I know, yeah, what a doofus,you have to play that clip he
(19:53):
misspeak.
He had to have, I don't know Idon't know I'm trying to look it
up right now but he essentiallysays, like somebody asks him,
like you know what he's workingon with the ad platform and he
said that's probably the thing Ispend the most like least
amount of time yeah, no kiddingwhat because it sucks like that
was just like the biggest worstevery year to every advertiser
on your platform.
But it's not just a gut punchto advertisers.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It's a huge self-own about like where your focus is,
like I get he's more futurevision oriented as a CEO, which
is good for him, but your entirerevenue stream is your
advertising platform and it'snot like you're not making money
(20:37):
with an open source AI model.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, what about Quest platform?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
and it's not like you're not making money with an
open source ai model.
Yeah, what about quest?
I think that stuff does okay,but you're I mean maybe five,
ten percent of their revenue.
I don't know, it's got to be 95percent.
Uh, I would guess 85 to 95percent of their revenue is
advertising yeah so it justseems crazy that that's not your
number one priority.
To make that the bestadvertising situation for
advertisers not just for you?
(21:02):
Yeah, because in the short runyou might be able to squeeze
people for some money, but inthe long run it opens you up to
really lose your place amongstadvertisers.
As the best place to advertiseyeah for sure, especially for
small and medium sizedbusinesses.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
So what's working?
So yeah, meta is still working,but what are the tried and true
things in meta that still work?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
um, like, I have one that we talk about all the time
yeah, the tried and true stuffof meta that's still working is
creating good content.
Yeah, I mean, obviously goodads are going to be the number
one.
Yeah, but paying attention toyour reach and understanding,
like, hey, are you, are your adsdriving the right kind of reach
(21:46):
and engagement?
Yeah, just like boost socialproof on ads and stuff that
we've been doing for a while andkind of have come back to it.
That's seeming pretty promisingtoo.
But, yeah, good content numberone.
Number two is effectivemessaging for different stages
(22:12):
of the funnel.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And for the audience the right audience.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
So effective messaging for people who might
know who you are or don't know.
Yeah right, so think aboutwhere your customer is and then
just maybe test yeahmultivariate tests like test
messaging, test value propsfigure out like what the biggest
emotional hook is test newhooks yeah for your customers.
(22:37):
Like it's not the savings like Iknow everyone's going to be
jumping to savings, messagingwith the economy it's not.
Like it's not going to be thenumber one mover for you might
get some returners back and afew new people, but like you got
to focus on what makes yourbest customers you're the best
customers and and really try toget more of them also, once
(22:59):
again, this is us.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I started the podcast off with this, like we just
beat a dead wait.
Beating a dead horse.
Yep, what's the one with thedrum?
It's like beating a drum To theyeah, I don't know, being a
dead horse, march, yeah, I'mthinking being a dead horse.
(23:22):
March, that, yeah, I'm thinkingbeating a dead horse, okay, is
like find other ways to get thatreach up as well, which
generally is through goodorganic content as as well.
like that's, that is going to beyour organic but it's going to
be your insurance policy throughall what we've seen with people
who don't have that it's.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
You got to figure something out in meta to get
that reach in your ads or you'vegot to look at other platforms
like pinterest or youtube.
Yeah, yeah, to get your reachup, because most people are
seeing just a dramatic decreasein reach and that's fine, like I
mean, there's a lot of peoplethat say it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter what yourCPMs are, your cost per reaches
(23:58):
or any of that, but it doesmatter when you're not reaching
as many people and conversionrate is going down.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It matters significantly when $1,000 used
to get you 1,000 people versusnow 500 people.
Yes, that matters big time.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
It matters big time it matters big time and I think
reach is a big, is a big bigdeal, especially when you're
talking about, you're trying totouch some, you're trying to
create as many touch points in acertain amount of time to
influence somebody, and greatcontent does that.
But also repetition does that,like we talked about how we get
sick of saying the same thingover and again.
But repetition is a powerfultool.
(24:41):
If you are familiar with salespsychology, you will know that
the human mind associates thingsthat are repeated over time
with truth, which is a kind of aculty thing to say.
I guess, yeah, but it's true.
(25:01):
So for sure Sales, the businesshas known this for a long time.
Like that's why Coca-Cola iswilling to pay for advertising
just to be seen everywhere.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah.
They are the best yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That's all they care about, because if you see it all
the time, then there'ssomething to them.
Yeah, so you as a business haveto think about how to create as
many good touch points aspossible within a consideration
time.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, yeah, for sure and reach is gonna.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That obviously is a big part of that.
Like you're not gonna justconvert someone because they saw
your ad once.
Yeah, you will convert somepeople, but there's a huge other
bucket of people that aren'tgoing to be converted.
So how do you reach new people?
How do you reach the samepeople?
How do you just reach people atan effective cost, with all of
the, obviously with the end goalof being sales, not just for
(25:48):
getting a cheaper cost per reach?
Yeah, if you can't do it inmeta, start testing other
platforms like pinterest,especially for, uh, certain
kinds of women's brands, andthen, yeah, tiktok, uh, youtube
(26:08):
also, for youtube's gonna veermore towards you know, men,
there's a lot of women onyoutube too, but it's just
different.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So thoughts on tiktok right now um, I think tiktok
has been hot garbage for yeah,your thoughts on tiktok has been
very similar when everyone wastalking about tiktok shops, I
was very listen it works reallygreat for the people who put a
(26:37):
lot of time and energy into it,who have it just depends product
that people can talk about.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, it just depends on the product and the virality
and the price point, likethat's kind of the factors that
we have found.
If it's a impulse purchase typebuy meaning you don't need a
ton of touch points like you canshow someone the product and
they think it's fun or cool orwhatever and they're willing to
buy right, then tiktok can begreat yeah, also that's problem
(27:04):
solution, works great we butit's just so.
It's just so hit and miss, it'sso unpredictable yeah so meta
still where you're gonna havethe majority of your ad spend,
but but meta keeps makingchanges to algorithms, right
Like there.
I think meta is paying too muchattention to Tik TOK, honestly.
(27:27):
Yeah, I think they're trying tomake Instagram and a Tik TOK,
and I think that's what'screating the problems with
advertising, because people arespending more time in reels than
they were in feed, and it's atotally different mindset, I
think yeah creates a differentkind of user behavior in reels
versus feed.
Sure, so that's my, that's myhot take yeah, interesting which
(27:53):
means you get, we you got as anadvertiser.
What does that mean?
It means better reels typecontent to blend in.
But also like how do you areach the people and get them to
act?
yeah so meta is, yeah, likeeveryone's feeling it like meta
is not just cranking and doinggreat for everyone right now.
(28:13):
Yeah, um, we have a few clientsthat it's still doing that, yes
, but and all of our clients arestill using it and still on it.
Yes, and that's.
The majority of our spend is inmeta.
Yeah, still high spenders, butit's, but if you're feeling hurt
by meta lately, like everyoneis, it's just frustrating.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, and it could be a mixture of the macro stuff
that we've talked about as well.
That's hurting.
The things that are happening,like people's just buying
behavior has become a little bitdifferent.
I know we've talked about thatover and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Also just where they are and spending their time.
Yeah, exactly Like theplacements.
Yeah, I think the placementthing is interesting, right,
like, where are the peoplespending their time?
And is it in the same orderthat it used to be, since TikTok
Like TikTok has kind ofdisrupted it and came onto the
scene spending their time, andis it in the same order that it
used to be, since tiktok liketiktok has kind of disrupted it
(29:02):
and came onto the scene, and so,of course, instagram has to try
to copy it.
But it's like, is it changingthe user behavior in the
platform in a way that you haveto focus on different kinds of
of measurables which, um, wehave found the answer is
actually yes.
Yeah, you do have to change alittle bit, and the success
(29:24):
we're seeing in meta has to dowith the fact that we think that
you have to focus on slightlydifferent lead metrics than we
were before.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Lead metrics, as in CPMs, click-through rates, that
kind of stuff.
Not necessarily those ones, butthat's what he's meaning by
lead metrics.
Yep, yep.
So that's it, state of theUnion.
Anything else we just wanted toget on and just be candid about
some stuff.
No, that's it, maybe.
(30:03):
Last thing is like usergenerated content distribution
is working well for people whodo it right.
It's not quite an ad channel,but it's a spend channel.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
For sure.
Well, it's like affiliate, yeah, so like affiliate network
stuff.
But doing it through productseeding Takes time.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
People don't like doing it.
You know like it's.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
We are seeing that UGC material is working less and
less as a prospecting.
Yes, piece of content, piece ofad material.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And more lower, and more lower In the funnel.
Yeah, so all right, that's allwe got for you guys today so
hope everyone has a happy Easterhappy Easter.
I don't know if you'll hearthis before Easter.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
But, yeah, have a happy Easter, or no?
Yeah, they will.
Hope you had one.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Or whatever you celebrate.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, I agree.
All right, everybody, we'll seeyou guys next week.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
(31:19):
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
Meta has just been the worst.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It's still the best platform to grow.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
In terms of trajectory, it's been just awful
.
Just don't ever trust any ofthe things Meta tells you to do.
Kind of that simple yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The new programs.
They have the reps that callyou to tell you to do X, y, z.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We just A-B tested their new incrementality setting
and it was just awful.
I mean, it literally tanked anaccount for five days, cut the
conversion rate in half, andthat just happens every time
they roll out something new.
Just be careful with it.
Like I kind of was hoping thistime it would be different, but
it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me, as always, is Markgoldhart.
Mark goldhart, how are youtoday?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I'm uh well good spring is here spring is here.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We always talk about the weather.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
It's just oh, it's so nice, though so sick of the
weather, so sick of winter.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, I feel like we're getting like way spoiled.
I feel like things areblossoming.
We went to the Tulip Festivalyesterday.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, I mean we'll have like one more snowstorm
that just sneaks in and kickseveryone in the nuts.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's supposed to rain tomorrow and potentially get
cooler, so I'm wondering ifmaybe tomorrow could be it.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's cranking down a little.
It usually happens like rightwhen May starts.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
But anyways, uh, I had to go camping.
Use your Haven tent.
Um, well, I do have the trailer, but we'll bust it out.
Bust it out, see what happensFor a little naps, little nap
ski in the, in the shade.
We're going to go visit some,uh, hot springs.
Nice, detox the skin apparently.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Apparently, they're very good for you.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Down in Farmington.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
These ones are out in .
These ones are out in the open,out in Delta Nice.
You can get there before youcan get to some of the higher
ones, oh really, but I thinkI'll take a day go do an offsite
there yeah, you've been wantingto take us all out to Delta and
(02:16):
do that you keep talking aboutit be fun, man we'll do it one
day.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I know we'll do it one day.
What are we talking about today, man?
Listen, we're feeling a littlegrumpy is not the right word.
A lot going on with ourbusinesses yeah, there's a lot
we want to be here, but we wishthat well.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Sometimes it feels more feels like we are
repetitive yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Which.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I get.
That's just a true story.
Is that everyone is repetitive?
Yeah, I had this coach who wasin the Hall of Fame and stuff
and whatever Great guy.
But my second year on the teamI realized that he repeated like
all the same things I was likewait a second, you're really
(03:11):
inspirational.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
My sophomore year.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
It was still inspirational, but I just
realized that, yeah, you got torepeat yourself and as a brand,
you got to repeat yourself a lot.
Yeah, no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
And we're just like we're just being open.
The reason why we're feeling alittle grumpy, and you know,
it's just because sometimes wefeel like we're just saying the
same thing over and over again.
You know which we are, which isimportant, which is hard for me
, and here's the thing it Likemost of the time.
Like, let's be honest, welisten to podcast episodes, we
read books, we feel inspired andexcited, but how often are we
(03:50):
taking action?
So yeah, it's good to hear thosethings but sometimes we feel
like, oh man, we just talkedabout this, should we talk about
it again?
So it would be also very niceto get a little feedback from
you guys to be like, yes,continue on, but we have some
other things up our sleeves.
But today we're going to trynot to do that.
We're going to kind of justgive like we thought it might be
(04:11):
a good idea to give a littlestate of the union on where we
are at with different marketingchannels channels, how are
different?
marketing channels impactingbusinesses from an effectiveness
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would likeyou to start with your story
about Gary Vaynerchuk, what youhad said and like how this
(04:35):
conversation oh yeah, yeah, garyV, gary V, gary Vaynerchuk,
who's used to be everything andnow is he even.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
He still is obviously .
Well, yeah, still is obviously.
Yeah, he is.
No, he's not like the, uh, he'snot really the flag bearer of
like entrepreneurship andbusiness.
I think it's more of that, likeAlex Hermosi you think he is I.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm so out of touch with books.
I think that's who people.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the guy that people look
to now Okay, Um, yeah, Gary V.
Okay, this is.
Let me preface this with.
Saying this is not to say thatGary V is totally wrong in the
medium to longterm.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, cause he's a smart guy, he's, we're not
saying he's.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
But I noticed something when he was speaking
to an audience and I thought ehkind of true, kind of not, but
anyways, it's about Google.
So his comment was about how, Ithink, he asks everyone like,
raise your hand if you go toGoogle or if you go to chat GPT
first.
And most people went to chatGPTpt and he kind of just was
(05:47):
explaining how search is dead.
Yeah, and and I could be lookat the clip in this, yeah, I
could be twisting the words alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
This is just memory.
Sorry, you probably didn'twatch the whole thing, you just
watched this.
I've watched this clip.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, I didn't watch like the whole speech bin.
And again, I think Gary Vee hasbeen right about a lot of
things and so I'm not sayinghe's wrong.
He was really right about.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
NFTs yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
That's a joke yeah.
That was a big joke, but he'sgotten some of the trends right.
He obviously has gotten sometrends right and he's smart and
he's in it of the trends right.
You know, like he obviously hasgotten some trends right and
he's smart and he's Like in itand A smart guy.
But Everyone raised his hand.
He's like see, search is likedead.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
And after the comments I was thinking Because
the reason why he said that isbecause most People raise their
hands and like Chat.
Gpt for questions but.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
The reality is he's talking to a bunch of marketers,
and so I think some people aretaking that message whether that
was his intended message or notand thinking, oh, I Google and
search, well, it doesn't matteranymore, like you have to go all
in on social, which is probablytrue in the long run.
However, you know you have toaccount for the fact that people
have a 20 year built in habitof going to Google first.
(07:07):
Yeah, okay, so he's talking toa room of people that paid to
see him.
So they're they're probablymore willing to try new things,
right, they're probably firstadopters with certain
technologies and marketing.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
People who've been listening to him for a while.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, and so, yeah, they're all in chat Mentality
anyways.
Yeah, who've been listening tohim for a while?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
yeah and so, yeah, they're all in chat.
Gpt mentality anyways, yeah,and that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
But um, most like my wife.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
There's tons of people that are going to google
first for products, like they'renot going to chat gpt and
asking me as somebody who useschat gpt or sorry, I use chat
gpt daily, several times a day,yeah, or some sort of form of ai
, whether that's gemini, chat,gpt, grok, whatever but if
you're searching for a product,but I never use chat gpt for
(07:55):
product searches unless I'm nowwanting to evaluate them, so,
like what I'll do?
Like I'm huge into tennis andso I'm constantly, like, very
interested in shoes and rackets.
I'm super, super interested inshoes and rackets because those
two things are the things thathelp me perform the most that I
can feel, and so I will do myresearch on Google on shoes and
(08:17):
then I will plug all thatinformation over into ChatGPT.
A lot to say, hey, can you giveme a breakdown here?
These are the four things I'mlooking for.
Based off of these five shoes,which one would you recommend?
yes but you're not.
But I'm never starting at chatgpt because that I mean chat.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Gpt isn't even built for that.
Maybe in the future it might be, but people are still going to
google and so we see a lot ofnegativity around google
oftentimes.
I mean and we're not these bigtime Google ads advocates
necessarily either, because wethink it's very contextual,
depending on your business andwhat you're in but over the last
(08:57):
six months, the only adplatform that I think has
actually made any improvementsis Google.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So that's my hot take .
I think Google has been great,like we've been running a lot of
Google campaigns.
Yeah, a lot of video stuff,google.
Youtube as well as well, inthat umbrella, yep and YouTube
is always going to have just theworst in-platform attribution
you can imagine, right and again, this depends on your brand too
.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Worse than.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Pinterest In-house attribution.
Yeah yeah, youtube has theworst.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Like in-platform attribution it's going to
under-re?
Yeah, just by 95, probably.
It's.
Yeah, it's a horrible.
So it looks bad, but, like,you'll see everything else rise
with it if you're doing it theright way.
So, and p max has gotten better.
So p max campaigns have gottenbetter.
Shopping campaigns we're havingsuccess with, like, we're
(10:01):
having success in a lot ofgoogle stuff.
That's not only doing what itused to do, but also getting
better from an incrementalitystandpoint yeah, for sure um, so
we, we are I don't want to saybullish, because there's just
only so much in google,especially on the search and
shopping side, there's only somuch to capture because you have
to depend on people searchingfor what it is um you still have
(10:23):
to be manufacturing demand inorder for that to work.
Yes and right, but that's wheredemand gen has been a pleasant
surprise, so we're gonna havemore to report on that.
But the new demand gencampaigns, which used to be the,
the video campaigns like uh,are doing wonderful.
Yeah, it also allows you todesignate like shorts versus
just youtube videos, so you cankind of go into YouTube shorts
(10:46):
and YouTube videos once again inplatform tracking is terrible
for, yeah, you got it.
You got to be usingpost-purchase surveys and either
, if you need to get reallytechnical, depending on your
consideration cycle.
There's North beam yeah, um,triple wells out there, but, but
(11:06):
honestly it, yeah, we've beenreally pleased with google.
Um, google and youtube yeah,the the few people that we've
used it with, I mean it is it ismaking a huge dent in their
bottom line.
Like we've put 30 percent ofbudget into a youtube campaign
(11:27):
or a demand gen campaign.
Um, you know, we have ourstrategies there and even though
the demand gen campaign says itgets a point, the ROAS on it is
0.13 or something like that.
Right, that's what it'sreporting, right, but it is
(11:48):
causing a 50 60 lift in newcustomer sales and in
conversions in pmax andconversions in pmax.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So yeah, pmax budget doesn't go up, that goes up.
Conversions go up everywhereindirect channel.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So, like it's, it's getting new people, it's getting
eyeballs right, getting reallygood interactions.
Like we're, we're super happywith those results and anyways,
yeah, so good job, google.
Like you're the only one whoisn't screwing it totally up
right now yeah although threeyears ago you kind of did.
But we forgive you, Meta.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Meta.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Has just been the worst.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
It's still the best platform to grow.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
In terms of trajectory, it's been just awful
.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah seems, buggy seems.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
And it's usually awful, and I I'm gonna say this
out loud I try not to be too bigof a negative nancy when it
comes to meta, but just don'tever trust any of the things
meta tells you to do.
It's kind of that simple, yeahthe new programs.
They have the, so we yeah wejust ab tested their new
(13:06):
incrementality setting and itwas just awful.
I mean it literally tanked anaccount for five days.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Cut the conversion rate in half.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yes, so like the AB test, like the side of the
incrementality was it wreckedconversion rates, it was not
driving like and this is, thisis a brand that doesn't have a
big consideration cycle, so likeyou can just see it like one
day after another yeah, thereason why he brings that up
consideration cycle is becausesometimes like you might need to
(13:39):
give it longer oh yeah, you gotto give it 30 days, but this is
a product whose AOV is under$50, $60, right, mm-hmm?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You know, like consideration window is it's a
very problem solution typeproduct, so it's not like you
buy, you don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, exactly so we, and that just happens Every time
they roll out something new.
Just be careful with it.
Yeah, Like I kind of was hopingthis time it would be different
, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
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Yeah, especially right now, itseems like there has been just
so like.
It seems like the.
Once again, everything we'resaying.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Meta is still the best platform right now, we
believe, for some, for growth,for business for brands, for
most brands, yeah, for most sure, for most brands, although we
have a few where Google is thebest channel.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
So yeah, and there's a few where TikTok is too right.
So, but so everything I'msaying is I understand that we
still believe Matt is a greatchannel.
It just seems like over thelast six to 12 months it's just
been inconsistent.
Things you thought would work,things that were once working,
(15:40):
no longer are.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
And then things that weren't working now start to
work.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
It just seems way more finicky in the past and,
and, uh, our tried and truemethods are the ones that are
still working the best.
Yeah, but every time we trysomething that they claim works
better, you know, whatever, itjust never does.
And the best example I can comeup with is if you use ChatGPT,
(16:10):
you'll notice that it kind oflatches on to certain things in
your conversation too much andit starts bleeding it all
together and starts giving yousome discombobulated responses.
Sure, I'm just wondering ifsomething like that's happening
within the AI algorithms of meta.
Yeah, where it's just latchingonto stuff.
It's just having a harder timereaching new people with, with,
(16:34):
uh, with certain optimizationsettings, and so you're getting
stuck with just like higherfrequencies and, if you don't
catch it, or, uh you know, justlike worse and worse conversion
rates too, coming from meta.
Now there's macro stuffhappening.
We like to be open about thepossibility of macro effects.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I know some people on Twitter say that's a big red
flag if an agency mentions macroeconomy factors.
But it's a big red flag ifyou're not trying to do anything
about it.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That's their excuse for everything.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yes, but like to not acknowledge that you have to
just acknowledge, like the waythe wind is blowing that's so
stupid.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Who said that so?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
well, I'm sure I'm just reading.
You know it's just Twitter, sothey're.
They're probably meaning it inthe same way you're saying it.
That's my assumption.
Yeah, but, but to me, a golfcaddy has to acknowledge the way
the wind is blowing, right,yeah, like you're not just like
(17:45):
it doesn't matter, just hit itstraight at the hole.
Like I'm just going straight atthe hole every time.
Right, like you have toacknowledge environmental
factors.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's a good metaphor.
That's a really good metaphorBecause you can play golf on the
coast.
That has I remember.
I remember my first time everplaying golf yeah, and I had a
not ever to play at a uh, when Ihad a caddy.
And I remember a very specificmoment where I was hitting a
ball into the coast, like thehole was literally right on the
(18:17):
coast.
You know, I could throw thegolf ball from the green in the
water if I wanted to and he saidthe wind blows so heavily in
from the from the ocean to thecoast that I remember I was like
130 yards out, which would be apitching wedge for me, and he's
like hit an eight iron an eightiron and I'm like that's crazy
(18:40):
man.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Not even a, not even a hit an eight iron.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
And sure enough I hit an eight iron and I was like
front short of the green, youknow wow.
So I hit it 30 yards less thanI normally would hit an eight
iron because the wind wasblowing because the wind was
blowing so hard.
So yeah, you have to.
You can't just say hit itstraight out.
You can't just say hit itstraight at it.
You can't just say hit it right.
You know like.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Like don't do anything?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, so you have to acknowledge macro stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So what I'm saying is you have to acknowledge that
there's macro things happening.
What you can't do is just belike, well, we're just not going
to make any adjustments, basedoff of the fact that this is
only macro stuff, there'snothing we can do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like youstill have to be trying to do
things better.
Yeah, you have to fight throughit, yeah, but yeah, the meta
stuff is frustrating becausethey just it just seems like
(19:29):
they're trying to fix somethingthat was working great.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Or trying to make something better that they broke
.
Yeah, like just the old uhidiom don't don't fix what's not
broke.
Did you see that clip from uhzuckerberg talking about how
little time he spends in the adplatform?
I know, yeah, what a doofus,you have to play that clip he
(19:53):
misspeak.
He had to have, I don't know Idon't know I'm trying to look it
up right now but he essentiallysays, like somebody asks him,
like you know what he's workingon with the ad platform and he
said that's probably the thing Ispend the most like least
amount of time yeah, no kiddingwhat because it sucks like that
was just like the biggest worstevery year to every advertiser
on your platform.
But it's not just a gut punchto advertisers.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It's a huge self-own about like where your focus is,
like I get he's more futurevision oriented as a CEO, which
is good for him, but your entirerevenue stream is your
advertising platform and it'snot like you're not making money
(20:37):
with an open source AI model.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, what about Quest platform?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
and it's not like you're not making money with an
open source ai model.
Yeah, what about quest?
I think that stuff does okay,but you're I mean maybe five,
ten percent of their revenue.
I don't know, it's got to be 95percent.
Uh, I would guess 85 to 95percent of their revenue is
advertising yeah so it justseems crazy that that's not your
number one priority.
To make that the bestadvertising situation for
advertisers not just for you?
(21:02):
Yeah, because in the short runyou might be able to squeeze
people for some money, but inthe long run it opens you up to
really lose your place amongstadvertisers.
As the best place to advertiseyeah for sure, especially for
small and medium sizedbusinesses.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
So what's working?
So yeah, meta is still working,but what are the tried and true
things in meta that still work?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
um, like, I have one that we talk about all the time
yeah, the tried and true stuffof meta that's still working is
creating good content.
Yeah, I mean, obviously goodads are going to be the number
one.
Yeah, but paying attention toyour reach and understanding,
like, hey, are you, are your adsdriving the right kind of reach
(21:46):
and engagement?
Yeah, just like boost socialproof on ads and stuff that
we've been doing for a while andkind of have come back to it.
That's seeming pretty promisingtoo.
But, yeah, good content numberone.
Number two is effectivemessaging for different stages
(22:12):
of the funnel.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And for the audience the right audience.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
So effective messaging for people who might
know who you are or don't know.
Yeah right, so think aboutwhere your customer is and then
just maybe test yeahmultivariate tests like test
messaging, test value propsfigure out like what the biggest
emotional hook is test newhooks yeah for your customers.
(22:37):
Like it's not the savings like Iknow everyone's going to be
jumping to savings, messagingwith the economy it's not.
Like it's not going to be thenumber one mover for you might
get some returners back and afew new people, but like you got
to focus on what makes yourbest customers you're the best
customers and and really try toget more of them also, once
(22:59):
again, this is us.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I started the podcast off with this, like we just
beat a dead wait.
Beating a dead horse.
Yep, what's the one with thedrum?
It's like beating a drum To theyeah, I don't know, being a
dead horse, march, yeah, I'mthinking being a dead horse.
(23:22):
March, that, yeah, I'm thinkingbeating a dead horse, okay, is
like find other ways to get thatreach up as well, which
generally is through goodorganic content as as well.
like that's, that is going to beyour organic but it's going to
be your insurance policy throughall what we've seen with people
who don't have that it's.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
You got to figure something out in meta to get
that reach in your ads or you'vegot to look at other platforms
like pinterest or youtube.
Yeah, yeah, to get your reachup, because most people are
seeing just a dramatic decreasein reach and that's fine, like I
mean, there's a lot of peoplethat say it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter what yourCPMs are, your cost per reaches
(23:58):
or any of that, but it doesmatter when you're not reaching
as many people and conversionrate is going down.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It matters significantly when $1,000 used
to get you 1,000 people versusnow 500 people.
Yes, that matters big time.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
It matters big time it matters big time and I think
reach is a big, is a big bigdeal, especially when you're
talking about, you're trying totouch some, you're trying to
create as many touch points in acertain amount of time to
influence somebody, and greatcontent does that.
But also repetition does that,like we talked about how we get
sick of saying the same thingover and again.
But repetition is a powerfultool.
(24:41):
If you are familiar with salespsychology, you will know that
the human mind associates thingsthat are repeated over time
with truth, which is a kind of aculty thing to say.
I guess, yeah, but it's true.
(25:01):
So for sure Sales, the businesshas known this for a long time.
Like that's why Coca-Cola iswilling to pay for advertising
just to be seen everywhere.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah.
They are the best yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That's all they care about, because if you see it all
the time, then there'ssomething to them.
Yeah, so you as a business haveto think about how to create as
many good touch points aspossible within a consideration
time.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, yeah, for sure and reach is gonna.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That obviously is a big part of that.
Like you're not gonna justconvert someone because they saw
your ad once.
Yeah, you will convert somepeople, but there's a huge other
bucket of people that aren'tgoing to be converted.
So how do you reach new people?
How do you reach the samepeople?
How do you just reach people atan effective cost, with all of
the, obviously with the end goalof being sales, not just for
(25:48):
getting a cheaper cost per reach?
Yeah, if you can't do it inmeta, start testing other
platforms like pinterest,especially for, uh, certain
kinds of women's brands, andthen, yeah, tiktok, uh, youtube
(26:08):
also, for youtube's gonna veermore towards you know, men,
there's a lot of women onyoutube too, but it's just
different.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So thoughts on tiktok right now um, I think tiktok
has been hot garbage for yeah,your thoughts on tiktok has been
very similar when everyone wastalking about tiktok shops, I
was very listen it works reallygreat for the people who put a
(26:37):
lot of time and energy into it,who have it just depends product
that people can talk about.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, it just depends on the product and the virality
and the price point, likethat's kind of the factors that
we have found.
If it's a impulse purchase typebuy meaning you don't need a
ton of touch points like you canshow someone the product and
they think it's fun or cool orwhatever and they're willing to
buy right, then tiktok can begreat yeah, also that's problem
(27:04):
solution, works great we butit's just so.
It's just so hit and miss, it'sso unpredictable yeah so meta
still where you're gonna havethe majority of your ad spend,
but but meta keeps makingchanges to algorithms, right
Like there.
I think meta is paying too muchattention to Tik TOK, honestly.
(27:27):
Yeah, I think they're trying tomake Instagram and a Tik TOK,
and I think that's what'screating the problems with
advertising, because people arespending more time in reels than
they were in feed, and it's atotally different mindset, I
think yeah creates a differentkind of user behavior in reels
versus feed.
Sure, so that's my, that's myhot take yeah, interesting which
(27:53):
means you get, we you got as anadvertiser.
What does that mean?
It means better reels typecontent to blend in.
But also like how do you areach the people and get them to
act?
yeah so meta is, yeah, likeeveryone's feeling it like meta
is not just cranking and doinggreat for everyone right now.
(28:13):
Yeah, um, we have a few clientsthat it's still doing that, yes
, but and all of our clients arestill using it and still on it.
Yes, and that's.
The majority of our spend is inmeta.
Yeah, still high spenders, butit's, but if you're feeling hurt
by meta lately, like everyoneis, it's just frustrating.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, and it could be a mixture of the macro stuff
that we've talked about as well.
That's hurting.
The things that are happening,like people's just buying
behavior has become a little bitdifferent.
I know we've talked about thatover and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Also just where they are and spending their time.
Yeah, exactly Like theplacements.
Yeah, I think the placementthing is interesting, right,
like, where are the peoplespending their time?
And is it in the same orderthat it used to be, since TikTok
Like TikTok has kind ofdisrupted it and came onto the
scene spending their time, andis it in the same order that it
used to be, since tiktok liketiktok has kind of disrupted it
(29:02):
and came onto the scene, and so,of course, instagram has to try
to copy it.
But it's like, is it changingthe user behavior in the
platform in a way that you haveto focus on different kinds of
of measurables which, um, wehave found the answer is
actually yes.
Yeah, you do have to change alittle bit, and the success
(29:24):
we're seeing in meta has to dowith the fact that we think that
you have to focus on slightlydifferent lead metrics than we
were before.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Lead metrics, as in CPMs, click-through rates, that
kind of stuff.
Not necessarily those ones, butthat's what he's meaning by
lead metrics.
Yep, yep.
So that's it, state of theUnion.
Anything else we just wanted toget on and just be candid about
some stuff.
No, that's it, maybe.
(30:03):
Last thing is like usergenerated content distribution
is working well for people whodo it right.
It's not quite an ad channel,but it's a spend channel.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
For sure.
Well, it's like affiliate, yeah, so like affiliate network
stuff.
But doing it through productseeding Takes time.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
People don't like doing it.
You know like it's.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
We are seeing that UGC material is working less and
less as a prospecting.
Yes, piece of content, piece ofad material.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And more lower, and more lower In the funnel.
Yeah, so all right, that's allwe got for you guys today so
hope everyone has a happy Easterhappy Easter.
I don't know if you'll hearthis before Easter.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
But, yeah, have a happy Easter, or no?
Yeah, they will.
Hope you had one.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Or whatever you celebrate.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, I agree.
All right, everybody, we'll seeyou guys next week.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
(31:19):
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
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