May 6, 2025 • 53 mins
In this episode of the Unstoppable Marketer podcast, Trevor and Mark discuss effective organic content strategies for e-commerce brands, analyzing the success of Americana Pipe Dream's TikTok account. They explore the importance of storytelling, visual engagement, and consistency in creating compelling content that resonates with audiences. They also draw parallels between content creation and baseball, emphasizing the need for persistence and focus on the target audience.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You just do it until you find your format Like.
Eventually you find the formatthat works.
It's storytelling thatgenerally has to do with a big
problem that I resolved, or it'show I got somebody to wear my
product, or it's I'm telling themost outlandish stories that no
one cares about About surpluscamo.
(00:21):
But because I've told itinteresting enough, people are
watching my videos.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the unstoppablemarketer podcast.
It is Tuesday morning.
I am here with Mark Goldhart ona lovely, lovely Utah morning.
(00:44):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Springtime here.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Springtime.
Yeah, I just got a rooftop tent.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, that's right you did.
You told me that that'sexciting.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yes, it was very exciting.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Awesome.
It's yard work city right now.
It's kids' sports season rightnow.
For me, every night, I have oneto two things.
Every night, every Saturday isone to three things.
That's my life right now thatsounds fun it's awesome and not
(01:19):
at the same time that's like thebest way to describe it I, my
wife and I, are like, oh, wedon't ever see each other, we
don't really get to hang outanymore.
And then, but then, under thesame breath of breath, you're
like at this moment, I wouldn'thave it any other way because
your kids are doing the thinglike you go and watch like
jude's jude's undefeated sevenno, in baseball right now, and
(01:39):
last game he got the gamewinning rbi against the hardest
team in the league and it waslike you know, to me it's those
like little things like that.
That's just makes it so fun,even though you're like I really
miss my wife, right now it'sthe busyness, yeah it's usually
spring and fall
Speaker 3 (02:00):
like.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm already busy yeah adding one more busy layer.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I mean, you guys, your kids are there.
You need to, it's daunting.
Sports is this year right.
You getting them in some stuffthis year.
Yes, Maybe fall.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, this yeah, yeah, they're going to do some
wrestling this summer, nice.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So you'll know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You'll know what I mean.
Sounds like.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Sounds like we're gonna put theo in tennis.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Let's go.
That's what I love, thatchristina wants to do oh, it's
the best sport ever yeah so youhere.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Let me tell you the other reason why tennis is the
tennis is the best sport.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm trying to figure out the whole tennis thing, so
we got to talk after for ahandful, handful reasons.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Number one this is science, this is research.
If you play tennis um more thanjust like, oh yeah, like once a
month, like somebody invites meevery now, but like if you
regularly play tennis and Iactually think this goes for
racket sports yeah, you livelonger, like 10 years longer.
Your lung, the longevity islike 7 to 10 years longer.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
That's what they say, but I don't know if it's really
the sport.
It's the sport.
Well, according to studies,it's more of the socialization
and the sport together.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, it's the cognitive and the you know,
because you have to like, make adecision within two seconds and
and perform at the samewouldn't?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I Guess golf isn't really much.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
You're not reacting no reaction time in golf.
So it's sports, it's not justwhat about fly fishing?
Probably, but.
But here's the.
The, that's reactions.
Well, well, but are you quickreflexes, but are you reacting
every two seconds?
Um, that's the thing, withtennis right.
(03:53):
You hit a ball.
Two seconds later it's back.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Boom, boom, boom boom no, I'm not saying it's more
like sniper.
I'm not saying it's more likesniper.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm not saying fly fishing, maybe.
Maybe it elongates life threeyears, two years.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I'll go look at the research.
But okay.
So number one elongates yourlife, very healthy.
Number two you can play itforever, like it's a sport that
professionally, is very hard onyour body Because you're yeah,
but if you're just playing for,even if you're playing, you know
, at a high schoolsemi-competitively yeah, you can
play your whole life, like Iplay every saturday morning with
(04:31):
like 70 year olds but anyprofessional sport is hard on
your body totally number threeand this is the reason why my
dad loved me playing.
it was because, instead ofmichael jordan being the poster
on my wall as a kid growing upand Michael Jordan as an athlete
is awesome to look at, but as ahuman being he was not a great
(04:55):
role model.
Not that he was a bad guy.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, well, no, he wasn't a badguy.
He just he was gambling a lot.
Yeah, you know, it wasn't agreat guy.
He just he was gambling a lot.
Yeah, you know?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, wasn't a great teammate to some of his people,
Was you know?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think he was a good teammate.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Just define just define what?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
like I understand what you're saying, he wasn't an
enjoyable teammate.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
He made his teams, his teammates, better.
Yes, yes, it's better.
Yes, yes, but like a RogerFederer, like most tennis
players, were just what about?
Andre, huh, yeah, you have yourblack sheet, for sure you
definitely have your black sheet.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
He's a little edgy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And he was actually like my icon as a kid because he
was such a bad boy.
Shame he went bald.
Oh yeah, that's actually one ofthe best like autobiographies
I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Wait, I mean, he looks fine bald, but like he was
pretty iconic when.
With the long hair mullet whenhe had the whole thing going on
in the early 90s.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Good role models in tennis for the most part.
Well, I would think of all thesports I've played, the best
role models.
I think personally Of thesports I've played.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Right when I would say tennis players are just
quieter.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
It's a gentleman's sport.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So whether they're actually better or not is
totally up for debate.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
They're just not in the limelight in the way, and
you just don't hear about themeither.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So in terms like the perception of a kid.
Yes, yeah.
So in other news, to get ontopic, you sent me a.
You sent me.
I mean, we don't have a wholeton to say about it, but I
thought, I thought it wasinteresting.
You sent me a linkedin postsolo brands supposedly solo
brand so let me read thislinkedin post here.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
uh, where'd you?
I thought it was interesting.
You sent me a LinkedIn post,solo brands, supposedly Solo
brands.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Let me read this LinkedIn post here Allegedly
Where's your text messages to me?
I've got you saved in myfavorites.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I'm in the favorites.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Last week.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
As you are for me Sorry last Wednesday.
You're the only one who can getthrough.
Do Not Disturb.
It always says that I'm Do.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Not, do not disturb, but I always click notify well
for text messages.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, but if you call me, it comes, sir.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yes, you and my wife, nice, are the only one, because
I know you're only going tocall me if I need it, if I need
you, if you need me or if I needa vent about a client, that's
it.
Last Wednesday, solo Brands,now worth $2 million, was
delisted from the New York StockExchange, the NYSE.
(07:34):
They'll be in bankruptcy beforethe end of the summer.
Who wants to put a bid in forChubby Shorts with me?
Top line $112 million, ebitda,$15 million.
So Solo Brands.
They bought chubbies.
Yeah, they did um.
So solo stove or I don't knowhow it worked.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah to be honest, I don't know if someone bought
chubbies and then they bought itfrom that.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I don't know how that transaction happened solo stove
, but very interesting, um, veryinteresting what's happening
maybe with some of those brands.
We don't have a whole ton ofinsights, but Well on March 14th
, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
According to Retail Dive, it said that the company
issued a going concern statement, citing challenges related to
liquidity and existing debt.
Their net sales fell 8% yearover year to 450 million ouch.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So times are hard.
Times are hard, which I feellike we have this conversation
every week, so we're not goingto dive into it, but the, the, I
think the point, the reason whyI wanted to bring up chubbies
is the only one performing theirportfolio too the only one I
wanted to bring up was uh, or?
the reason why I wanted to bringit up was just to show like
it's not just the small brands,but it's the big brands that are
(08:53):
getting hurt too.
Right, and what sounds like isdebt oftentimes falls within the
opex side of things, and that'sa huge thing that we've talked
a lot about, which is, you know,hey, in trying times, most
people want to cut theirmarketing.
Hey, let me find a cheapermedia buyer.
(09:14):
Hey, let me spend less here onmarketing, when in reality, I
would say, hey, find a way tosqueeze your OPEX before you
start cutting the hand thatfeeds you.
So anything else you want tosay to that, before we jump into
what we wanted to discuss today, yeah, I think the other thing
is just.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
it's interesting.
I think a lot of people thatlisten to this podcast don't
have to worry about what SoloBrands is going through.
Sure, you're probably not doing$450 million in total sales
last year as a guy, as a companyor an umbrella yeah but it does
beg the question right likewhat is, what is the goal of an
(09:56):
e-commerce company?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
it's a great question .
I think most people would sayto grow and to sell.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Exactly like.
I want to sell, I want to getacquired, which is great.
It worked out for chubbiesreally well.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But this might seem a little like Jekyll and Hyde
from our last conversation, butif you listen to our last
podcast, it was very.
We were very pro growth yeslike you have to be growing yes
but there's a caveat with that,which is like it depends on what
(10:37):
your business goals are.
But I think a lot of people putthe cart before the horse,
right and like they just say, wewant to grow at X percent, yeah
, before realizing what kind ofhorse they need to get to
actually pull that kind of cart.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And a lot of what we talked about last week was hey,
if you want to grow and if yourbusiness relies on growing which
most businesses do to someextent, just depends on what
your goals are, yeah Well, doyou want to get acquired
eventually?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
and if so, for how much?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
too right like you're going to play a very different
game than if it's like, hey, Iwant to be, I want to serve this
subset of an audience right,because, like when you're
talking about public companiesgenerally, you're talking about
pretty big Tams.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, yeah, so If you're talking about a big tam,
total addressable market thenyeah, it's just totally
different yeah but if you're, ifyou're doing, let's call it
Baby shoes, you're doing, let'scall it baby shoes.
(11:50):
Like it is, like it is, but itisn't yeah, not a billion dollar
tam.
I mean I'd say billion dollarsure but but a very hard, oh
yeah, okay but, if you're sure,billion e-commerce company
amongst many, yes, how do youget to a billion?
Sure, but it's gonna be, youknow, and maybe depending on,
(12:10):
like, your unique Sellingproposition, like it's a little,
yeah, different.
So just just know, when we,when we get adamant about things
like, just remember, zoom out,like we talked about last week.
Zoom out, like what, what isthe actual goal here?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yes, if you're not growing as a business, you're
probably not going to be aroundsuper long.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
But define what growth is right.
You don't have to be growing,you don't have to be 10xing, you
don't have to do 50% every year.
Yeah or yeah or yeah you don'thave to, yeah, you can.
If you don't have to, yeah, youcan.
If you don't grow, yes, youwill become extinct Eventually.
Eventually, that's justAbsolutely, but you know, this
happened here, that's auniversal law.
Yes, you happen here.
This happened here in Utah.
(12:54):
Like.
So Utah is a big e-com hub andthere were tons of brands that
just like what would you say?
Between 2014 and 2018, thatstarted and just they became
like the darlings of utah andand darling e-commerce companies
in a lot of ways but, then justkind of dissipated and a lot of
it dissipated because theytried to grow too fast, like
(13:15):
like 30 growth year over yearwasn't good enough, and so
sometimes when you make and fulldisclosure.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
we very much were in that kind of train of thought.
Oh yeah, for sure, in 2016, 17,it was like, hey, let's just
grow.
But part of that though just togive everyone a little grace
here who was going throughbusiness at that time it seemed
(13:45):
a lot more doable because costswere so cheap with ads, sure and
as of the organic reach well,and you didn't have the creator
economy that was as much in play.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
You also didn't have, like Alibaba and all these
things that have made it so mucheasier for competitors to come
in.
So even though there wascompetition it was it was
significantly less back in 2018than it is today right.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, it was just like a brand new tree.
There wasn't any moss on it,there was nothing like living
off of it, it was just likegrowing straight towards the sky
.
Yeah, uninhibited.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, so that's that.
So that's not what we want totalk about today.
We've already gone into that,we've already gone into that,
we've already dove into it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, but I just want to preface that with this
conference, conversationalConversationist.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Conversation.
Okay, move on.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
What do you?
We did talk a lot about whosucceeded back then, and it had
a lot to do with organic contenttotally, which is a great segue
which the organic content gamehas changed, changed
significantly in 2018.
Pretty pictures yeah which,depending on your brand, that
(14:57):
might still work, but probablynot yeah, the picture, pretty
picture.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Game works when it's very unique.
Yes, right, but it's not thatsame.
I always game works when it'svery unique.
Yes, right, but it's not thatsame.
I use it.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
It's like the pastel flat lay you know Well,
basically, are you high fashionor are you not?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Model in front of a really cool setting.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Like that just all blends in, that's all noise.
Yes, like, did that come fromanthropology?
Did it come from Nordstrom?
Did it come from, you know,boutique A here?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Boutique B yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I don't know, maybe all of the above.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Probably not so.
Okay, so, speaking of, okay, sowhat has changed?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Who's winning?
We want to show you guys somewinning, yeah, okay.
So, yeah, let's, let's prefacethis.
So I get a ton of questions onmy personal social media, which
ties into the podcast, into ouroverall right.
My personal social media isessentially marks like that's
kind of how we operate thingstogether, and One of the biggest
questions I get from everybodyis like okay, I do not see
anything on there, though, so ifyou do want to talk shit on me,
(16:07):
you can DM him.
I will defend you though.
I will not see it.
I get a ton of people who aresaying, oh, what should I do if
I'm this company?
Or, oh, can you give me somegood examples of brands that are
doing organic right, and wefigured, you know what.
We talk a ton about organic allthe time and how important it
(16:28):
is and how people suck at it andhow people should be doing
better, and sometimes we feellike we're beating a dead horse
where we're like hey well, we'renot really giving you any.
Yeah, we thought, hey, what ifwe?
In order for us to still talkabout it.
What if we start taking brandsthat we discover and they're not
going to be the brands thateveryone else talks about, the
brands that everyone else talksabout, Just to let you know, I
(16:48):
hear all the you know socialmedia gurus.
Look at what Chipotle is doing,Look at what Ryan air is doing.
Like, those are like your two,like, go to the biggest brands.
I, we don't care about thosepeople.
Those are the easy ones for youto find.
We're we're talking about peoplethat you've, if you've heard of
(17:10):
them that you can hopefully beable to replicate they're.
They're most likely in a verysimilar, um, size of business
that you were, or at least atone point were, and this is the
thing that catalyst and tookthem to another level, Um, so
hopefully there are brands youhaven't heard of.
So, with that said, we'll pullit up on the screen.
But also, if you're watching,highly recommend you watch this
(17:30):
YouTube.
So, if you're watching this by,or if you're, if you're
listening to this, this episodeyou need to watch.
So so you got to go to YouTube.
You got to go to theunstoppable marker podcast, um,
because we're going to beshowcasing these videos.
I came across the AmericanaPipe Dream Apparel Company and
I've like fallen in love withthis TikTok account.
(17:51):
It's like unreal.
So I sent this to Mark lastweek, was it?
You want to give them, like arundown of what this company is?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's a military surplus company.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Which means what?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
They sell.
It's like a giant.
It's a giant second-hand shopof it's not always used stuff,
but it's just like surplus stufffrom like military-type
outfitters.
Yeah, so stuff that maybe so,like tents, canvas.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Pants knives.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Jackets yeah, canvas like canvas jackets yeah.
That the military issued in1985 and it's been sitting in a
warehouse for like 20 years.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
yeah and or I have no idea how they buy it, but they,
you know, they probably justlike bid on something yeah, it's
just stuff that people find inboxes and they're probably like,
hey, let's get rid of it sellit for pennies on the dollar
yeah you know, and then you guysturn around and make a big
profit on it and I think they'redoing relatively well.
When I looked up, uh, theirrevenue numbers, I can't
remember off the top of my head,but I wanted to showcase a
(18:52):
couple videos and, and I want tobreak it down, um, the first
one I have to do is just likethe hook just says the word the
talabans.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
All right, so let's watch the here, the one to the
left.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, the one to the left.
Oh, but this dude's a legend.
All right, let's watch thishere.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
The Taliban's favorite shoe, the Service.
Cheetah Service is a shoemakingcompany based out of Pakistan
that started in World War IIwhen they began manufacturing
boots for the British military.
Since then, they've expandedtheir lineup to include anything
from work boots to runningshoes and, of course, the white
cheetah high top sneaker.
During the NATO occupation ofAfghanistan, us troops were told
to be on the lookout foranybody seen wearing a pair of
(19:32):
these cheetah high tops, becausethey were most likely members
of the Taliban.
White cheetah high tops back instock at AP sizes 7 through 13.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So so like let's break this down.
Like that video has 1.9 millionviews 1.9 million views,
169,000 likes, 1600 comments,23,000 Saves, 10,000 shares.
Um, what do you like about thislike?
(20:05):
Why did it?
Why are you thinking it'sgetting that Outside of the hook
?
Because the hook is crazy?
You say anything about theTaliban's favorite shoe or
something like that.
That's just a wild.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It is a wild hook, but what they do well is A.
They're using Interestingtransitions and zoom ins and
zoom outs, so editing is reallygood.
So the editing is real and ifyou look at all their videos,
they do a really good job ofthis right like they'll have
like interesting backdrops thatthey'll swap in and out like
(20:36):
little animations that they putinto it.
So, yeah, they're keeping itcatchy throughout the entire
because, like, what he's sayingand how he's saying it he's
saying and how he's saying ithe's not that no offense.
He's not giving it with like aton of gusto.
Sure, in most of his videoshe's not.
It's not like he's this big.
In fact he's more dry.
Yeah, he's really dry.
(20:57):
He's not like this big guy.
I don't know Big acting typepersonality, he's just kind of
chillin and hanging out, butit's like, look, he changes the
position that he's in a fewtimes.
Like, if you go through thevideo, you're gonna see him like
standing.
You're gonna see him sittingRight like that interesting zoom
out.
See how I like that it cuts himso it keeps you at the back to
(21:18):
the front.
Yeah.
Anybody keep going and then itgoes in and then you're gonna
have another one of.
But if you see that firsttransition we talk about this a
lot with people is that thathappens usually within one to
two seconds.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, and then that's him like on a different step,
now set back.
So I think the editing's good.
And so he does this a lot.
I think like oh, whoops, I gotmy.
Uh, I've been on TikTok for toolong today.
Um, I like.
So I think there's a lot ofvisual hooks to it as well.
Right, he is dressed somewhatlike Taliban-y.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, yeah, his outfit is interesting and funny
yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Um.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So I think they he crushes it with visual hooks but
I think the most importantthings is what's really really
cool the homie's just on astaircase.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Is he?
I think the reason why hecrushes it is because he's
telling interesting stories.
He definitely is.
So he's taking.
He's taking something like.
He's like he's telling a storyabout how these shoes that the
Taliban wore like would you haveever thought you cared about
that story?
Uh, no, would you have?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
ever thought you cared about that story?
No, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But it's interesting, right, and so you have one.
I think you have people whojust fit this world of like you
know, kind of more military, youknow, I don't know, it's more
of your man's manny type, person, camper, whatever their
audience is.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I don't even know Like at this point with Gen Z.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
This could just be, yeah, a fashion thing for sure
gen z girls could be into thistoo, yeah but I think that I
think that's where, so let's goto another.
Another one here how much didworld?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
war ii german camo impact.
Post-war militaries well, it'sa lot actually.
Today we're going to be talkingabout taz 83 alpenflage at the
end of world war ii.
The germans thought that itmight be.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
But if you notice he uses in the editing right Like,
yes, the storytelling, for sure,but the way he keeps people
visually engaged even though hedoesn't have a lot to be showing
.
Sure yeah, he's in the same spot, I think that's the trick that
TikTokers have figured out is inyour strategy.
(23:26):
If you are not cutting everysecond, almost you're going to
miss out on on view length.
Yeah, and that's what we seerunning ads.
Right, the more you're cuttingsomething up.
And when I say cutting it up up, it doesn't necessarily mean a
full transition to a differentscene.
(23:47):
It's just like zoom in, sure,zoom out.
Yeah, right, like there'ssomething visually happening.
There's like a set, like acaption.
It gets really big yeah right,the captions become colored and
big and then and then go backdown, depending to like to
emphasize a word.
Yeah, yeah, like that's whatwe're talking about, like
creativity, and in the theprocess yeah, it's just
different, because this guy's ina warehouse right now and, like
(24:08):
this thing has 110 000 likesyeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And this one had I can't remember how many views,
but a couple, a couple millionmaybe, but so a stories are
interesting what's really coolabout this when you say stories
but he's keeping you visuallyengaged through the process,
totally.
I love that.
Like it's funny Cause you'vethought you've kind of focused
more on the editing, the jumping, the back and forth, and like
(24:34):
my big takeaway was not not notthat you disagreed with the
stories, but what I think isreally cool is is I think a lot
of people, a lot of brands, havea hard time.
Um, they have a hard timejustifying the content they
create because they're nottalking about the product.
So like if, if it, if it's notproduct focused, they think it's
(24:55):
not going to sell.
So like, if a video doesn'thave anything to do with the
product or whatever, that brandsjust get like caught up and and
and I, if you're listening tothis, I don't know if you feel
this way, but I've I've heardthis from time and time and time
again from brands is thatthey're like well, we have to
sell the product if we'recreating content around it.
Where what's happening right now, especially on Tik TOK, is that
that just doesn't work.
(25:16):
Like talking about your productover and over and over again,
selling, selling, selling.
It's the old way that we talkedabout the pictures of a girl
behind a castle wearing a cutetop, that anthropology is
selling.
That stuff doesn't work anymore.
It used to work really, reallywell and now it doesn't.
So people don't like theproduct-focused stuff.
(25:37):
However, what's really coolabout this?
Everything they're doing isproduct-focused.
So why does it work?
Because they're telling a storyabout the uniqueness of the
product.
Correct, right, so you can haveall of your content be about
product.
I think that sometimes, atleast on my TikTok, I'm always
saying stop talking about yourproduct, stop selling the
(26:00):
product, stop, stop, stop.
But at the end of the day, youcan do it if you do it right.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Like if I fast forwardforward this watch, and
it was asking $600 for a shirt.
Luckily for you, these jacketsare only 35 bucks.
And you can't forget thematching pants and the rock.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's like they have a call to action that's selling
after every video.
Very true, but they can do itbecause he's intertwining
stories on how that product cameto be.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, I mean, but I think that that's goes back to
like if you're, if you want totalk about your product without
talking about your productbecause, again, most, most
companies aren't going to fallinto this category.
Yeah, like he's got interest,like the products that he's that
he is selling all have aninteresting war story to it or a
(26:49):
tit like a nice, weird fact,right?
However, the lesson that youcan learn as a company is he's
weaving in these stories as he'stalking about and just showing
the product.
So if you go on tiktok, a lotof the viral content or a lot of
the stuff that people get stuckon is just like somebody
telling a story about something.
(27:11):
But then it's just like visual,I don't know, like visual
Addictive scenes going on like afactory line or things getting
crushed or whatever you knowyeah well, they do that because
it'll keep you visually engaged,but like it's also the story,
so it's like you're kind of
Speaker 1 (27:31):
trying to hook you in like two ways yeah and a hot
ball melting ice?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
yes, just something like that, right, and you can,
you and you can use those weirdthings as, just as, hooks, yeah,
so if you're a I don't know,let's, let's say uh, what's a
brand that you like right now?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I mean I like standard issue cool.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So if you're, if you're an apparel company, yeah,
what can you be talking aboutwhile you're telling stories
wearing your products?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
You could be talking about how you made it.
You could be talking about howyou make it like, how you
decided to.
You know especially somethingunique to, maybe why you design
the pants slightly differentcompared to somebody else, right
?
Or you could talk about achallenge.
Do you remember the company?
Uh, they rebranded, I think Ican't remember they rebranded
(28:28):
too, but they were calledsuckers.
We had them on the podcast, sohe would just retell this story
over and over again.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
So he was constantly talking about his product yeah,
but how hard it was to make theyeah, which was?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
it was hard candy that was not healthy but
healthier, right, you know, lesssugar, and I think they
rebranded to.
Bad mouth is what what theyrebranded to.
But anyways, he would tell thestory over and over again about
how hard it was to find amanufacturer, and it was
constantly about him testing,you know, and the visuals were
about him and his, his I can'tremember if it's his girlfriend
(28:59):
or wife creating this companytogether.
And you know, he also had thisstory about how one time he
pressed like a red button thatruined their production and lost
them 20 grand, or you know.
So it's.
It's these interesting storiesthat have the product all
intertwined.
Yeah, is that kind of what youwere looking for?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, and so you can do that, and then you can also
tell stories about your audience.
So if you are selling to Idon't know let's just call it 25
year old men and you're sellingshirts to 25 to 40 year old men
, like, what stories areinteresting?
(29:38):
Yeah, what are they interestedin?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, this is how we got LeBron james.
Let's let's standard issueright 25 to 40 year olds hey,
this is yeah, this is how we gotlebron james basketball, but
what a cool story everybodyknows lebron, what a cool story
yeah, to be like hey, this ishow we got lebron, james and
jay-z to wear our hoodies.
Like that hook is a good hookand and the hook is like the
(30:03):
visuals, like a slide of lebron,a slide of jay-z jay-z, and
then it's the founder orwhomever telling this story.
Okay, cool, and we know theseguys, so we're giving them right
.
So, for example, one of thefounders, his name is jimmy and
he's a professional skateboarder, right, and so he has ties into
(30:24):
fame, right.
Whether he knows lebrondirectly or he knows his agent,
I can't remember, but it's like,oh, hey, cool.
Uh, you know, this is how wegot lebron and jay-z to wear our
stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I'm a professional skateboarder or they had like
bryce harper wearing their stuffyeah, yeah, because he's from
philly yeah, exactly, hey.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
This is how we got a collaboration with the
philadelphia eagles, becausethey did that too, but those
cool stories that haveeverything to do with your
product, but it's such a uniquestory.
It's not talking about yourproduct yeah, exactly right, but
it is and it isn't at the sametime well, you're not just like,
hey, this is what my product is, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Here's this fun story while you're seeing my product
and like cool people wearing myproduct totally and like why my
product's cool so this worksawesome.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
This guy works awesome because he's just
breaking down.
You know he's telling reallycool and this guy's a great
storyteller too, right, yeah,he's finding really interesting
stories.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, that tie into the surplus pants he just bought
, or the so this, this is theone that I liked, because this
is two days ago.
It's already at 34 000 likesand if you watch it, you want to
press play.
Yeah, go back.
Okay, this man lived alone inthe okay.
This is what I'm talking aboutthe transitions you start.
It's him like always this is astory about goes and do it right
(31:44):
.
Has this like nice little editcut where he's like pasting the
image of this homie here.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, and then within , let 's see yeah, like within,
and then it zooms in and it'sall within like three different
scenes?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yes, yeah, it's like within a second, like he's just
doing these visual transitionsto To hook you in.
Now the story is reallyinteresting, right?
Yeah, but people aren't ontiktok to listen to an audiobook
yeah like they're.
They're not right, so, likeyou're, they're not just gonna
sit there and listen to a storyevery single time, totally so
how do you keep people engagedvisually?
(32:17):
Is, a, he's telling aninteresting story.
B, he's using interesting, justvisual hooks.
And these are nothing crazy.
This isn't anything that, like,you can't do depending on your
budget.
Like this isn't like oh sorry,like I got to go hire a high end
agency to make these edits.
You can figure this out totallyas a small company.
Yeah, it's not.
(32:37):
It takes time.
I'm telling you it takes time.
It's not easy, but you canfigure it out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Well, I do this not to bring this into like my world
here, but like, if I like Ihave been doing this with Like.
Like, watch this here.
I do all my editing in CapCutand if you go to this video,
they got four hundred and fivethousand views.
So like, see that transitionright there, cut.
And if you go to this video,they got four hundred and five
thousand views, so like, seethat transition right there.
(33:06):
Like, I do all this in CapCut.
So I say the hook and then boom, there's a, there's a whole new
transition.
Right there, there's a newtransition.
You know, like you, you can goin and out and use different,
different scenes, different jumpcuts.
One time you're zoomed in on aface, the other time you're
(33:27):
zoomed out on a face.
There's several different waysyou can do this.
I film all this on my iPod andor my iPod, my iPhone, and edit
in CapCut, ipod Nano.
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Speaker 2 (34:28):
The moral of the story here guys, is go watch
some interesting content ifyou're.
If you're struggling withgetting out of the mindset of,
like I need to sell, I need totalk about my product directly,
it's's, it's zoom out, and howdo you talk about it indirectly
and honestly, the best way forme to get into this frame of
(34:49):
mind is I like, think of a goodbook.
You like, like I love the Lordof the Rings trilogy.
I'm going to put this down.
I keep touching it and when.
I'm thinking about Lord of theRings.
It's like, well, what's theactual message of the story and
how do authors create themessage of the story?
(35:11):
But it's like you have thisjourney that gets you to the
message, right, and then themessage comes together at the
end.
They're not just telling youright at the beginning, right.
It's not like you start lord ofthe rings and like, hey, it's
about overcoming trials andhere's the tldr maintaining
(35:31):
innocence and the face of eviland right, whatever right it's
it's.
Hey, let me introduce you tosome interesting characters.
Let me take you through thisjourney.
Let's suffer with them.
Let's like watch them get overthings.
Let's go through a journeytogether.
Through this journey, let'ssuffer with them.
Let's like watch them get overthings.
Let's go through a journeytogether, yeah, and then let's
weave it all at the end.
Yeah, totally like no goodmovie gives you everything right
(35:53):
at the beginning.
Yeah, right, yeah.
But why does it keep you drawnin throughout the entire movie?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
yeah, you usually good stories are.
I think there's probably.
I'm probably missing here, butif I remember it's like it's
like three different steps.
It's like let's go four steps.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
You have a good hook, then you give context, then you
give conflict, then you give aresolution and the good hook the
good hook for a story generallyis I care about this character
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, why should you care about this?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
yeah, so I care about a character for some reason.
Yeah, why should you care aboutthis?
Yeah, so I care about acharacter for some reason, like
I'm emotionally invested into acharacter.
Yep, right, severance.
Everyone is emotionallyinvested into the characters of
the show Marcus, marcus mostly,and Helly DLG Irving.
(36:44):
So why are you emotionallyinvested into these people?
Now you have the way people andthen the way they do.
It is.
There's often, you know, abook's different, but in a movie
they'll keep you visuallyengaged.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, and that's what thesepeople are doing.
Right, like a movie.
A great movie will keep youvisually engaged, even though
(37:04):
you're not like totally boughtinto a character right off of
sure.
Scene one.
Yeah, although there are somemovies where scene number one
will have you.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Like rooting or hating that person immediately
and that's the Dark Knight.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah like if you watch the Dark Knight, scene
number one is the bank Robbery.
Yeah, that introduces you toLike if you watch the Dark
Knight scene number one is thebank robbery.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
That introduces you to spoiler alerts.
The Joker, right.
So from scene number one, youare drawn into excitement.
Yeah, although you don't knowwho these people are.
Like you know something bad'shappening.
You can kind of figure outthey're robbers, right.
But it draws you in in a wayand then introduces you to the
(37:47):
Joker within five minutes.
Yeah, that has you captivatedfor the rest of the show, yeah,
of how it's going to play out.
Yeah, but it's very visual,right.
It's exciting.
Think about how you do that inyour 30-second TikTok videos.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah.
It has to be visually excitingor interesting for someone to
stick around for a story, and Ithink nowadays the visual is
just as important as the actualstory itself, because there's so
much more content and so muchcompetition that maybe just
telling a story in front of acamera worked really well
(38:24):
without any of the transitionsor anything like that, and it
still works for sure Like ifit's a very if you're not
telling any story, do that.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, start telling just a story to the camera.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
But I like the idea with stories with hooks is like,
oftentimes the hook is isusually the end Like hey, like
we said, hey, hey, this is howwe got jay-z and lebron to wear
our stuff.
You know, in this guys it'slike, hey, this is the taliban's
favorite shoe, you know, it'slike it's like this you got
these like just kind of punchypunchy hooks.
Sometimes also a really goodhook is just like you jump into
(38:54):
the story.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
So last night, and I'm telling you right now, your
hooks probably aren't fastenough last night the craziest
thing happened to me well, thelast one we watched.
He said this is a story aboutthis guy who survived 20 years
or 30 years in the wildernessyeah and that's interesting yeah
like 30 years and done in threeseconds.
What does that mean?
(39:16):
Yeah, and then he goes into thestory.
Yeah, that's posted two daysago.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Like that's not an old no, yeah, it hasn't been
just gathering.
What was that one, that one hadlike?
35,000 or 38,000 somethingviews, but for brand accounts to
be getting no that one had252,000.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Likes is what I was referringto.
But yeah, 252,000 views on thatvideo in two days and if you go
through this guy's stuff you'llsee video in two days and if
you go through this guy's stuff,you'll see I mean, he is, he's
consistent.
Oh yeah, like he's, he'sbatting he's batting over 300,
right?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
yeah, like to see, to see like a 4 000 viewer like
that one right there on the topright like that's.
That's very rare in this guy'saccount.
Most of them are 20,000, 30,000, 19,000, 260, 330, 113, 10.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
And he's got some misses, but that's just called
life, guys.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Look, I can click on most popular right.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So when we've consulted with some businesses,
sometimes we'll bring up somestrategies for them to utilize,
and oftentimes you'll hearsomeone in the company say, well
, we do that, we've done that,and it doesn't work.
Yeah, and you say, oh, you have.
Okay, Like, explain to me howyou've done that.
(40:41):
Yeah, like, how many times didyou do that?
And it's usually like we didthis thing one time, yeah, and
it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
We tried it once yeah .
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Or we thought about doing this and like the
execution was pretty bad andlike they didn't do it again.
Yeah, so what I love aboutthese guys and if you just go
and look at anyone who'ssuccessful at telling stories,
this isn't, this is not anovernight thing.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Like you will, you will.
You will most likely failpretty pretty miserably for the
first couple months.
Yeah, yeah, one of my favoritelike Trevor is a good example of
that.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Sure, like I was, I was super successful with my
content early.
So from like 20 to 2022, it wasawesome, but from like 2022 to
2024, it was abysmal.
It was like a downhill slide,you know.
And then up until the last likefour or five months, it's
gotten significantly better.
And what's great about thiskind of stuff is you you don't
(41:41):
need home runs every time At anygiven time.
On my own Instagram account, Ihave between 500,000 and 700,000
people viewing my profile andif you go look at it, you'll see
plenty of videos that only have1,000 views.
But then you have two or threein there that were 10,000 to
(42:02):
30,000, and then you have one inthere that was 400,000.
And you know, really all ittakes is a few videos a month.
That that brings in themajority of that.
One of my favorite lines from apodcast this was probably like
in our first year of podcasting.
We had the founder of seeksupply, which is like a uh clear
(42:24):
protein powder.
His name is Ben Zaver, ifanyone remembers.
This like the episode wasawesome and we were interviewing
him because they he crushes itwith Tik TOK and brand content,
and one of my favorite lines hesaid was like you just do it
until you find your format.
Like, eventually you find theformat that works.
(42:45):
You know, uh, it's storytellingthat generally has to do with a
big problem that I resolved, orit's how I got somebody to wear
my product, or it's I'm tellingthe most outlandish stories
that no one cares about.
But but the you know, aboutsurplus camo.
(43:07):
But because I've told itinteresting enough, people are
watching my videos, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
So you just have you seen the new Barry Bonds video
where he's getting interviewedabout his mentality when he was
at the play.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Yep, mathematically calculate what a pitcher can and
can't do.
Once I can calculate you, thenI can beat you and then and then
.
Then it becomes this what isbeating him right?
The goal of hitting is it's meand him, and if I can keep that
tunnel vision between me and himand forget the goons that are
(43:41):
around him, because in theory myjob is just to hit him and be
good against him.
Understanding the velocity of apitch, just a fastball.
So we're just going to use afastball analysis, because you
have a guy that throws battingpractice to you every single day
and he only throws a fastballright and he tries to help you
be really good and we screw thatup half the time.
(44:02):
So I had to figure out how tomaster batting practice first,
because this guy is trying tohelp me, you know.
So how do I can direct that?
Now?
I'm going to piece it to speed.
Now I have to understand whatmy swing technique is and then
understand the velocity of apitch and velocity of the ball.
The further.
The faster it comes to me, thefurther it goes.
Right, but I don't change who Iam Right Now.
(44:29):
If I can focus on him, Ialready know the speed of a ball
off.
My bat goes a certain speed.
I don't care how many peopleare over here, I can still
squeeze it through you.
It's not like you're going tocatch every single thing, right?
So my job is, my victory is tomake contact off of him.
Once I do that, everything elseis out of the equation, right.
So in theory, I win.
I really do win, even thoughthe pitcher standing on the
mound going I got you out.
No, the second baseman did all.
(44:50):
Right now, filler did not hityou, this guy.
You were already out of theequation.
So we took all these people offthe field.
You, you would lose so much.
It'd be really crazy, right?
So now I have to redirect mybrain into this tunnel vision of
understanding.
If I can concentrate enough tome and him, they'd slowly
disappear.
But I can't fight two people atonce.
(45:11):
I can't say I hit a line driveto a shortstop or hit a line
drive to the outfielder and hemade a catch.
Now I want to try to beat themboth.
You can't One-on-one.
I can fight, but I can't fighttwo-on-one.
I'm going to lose.
So I have to refocus and goright back to here and go.
Let me try to do that again,let me try to do that again, and
(45:34):
let me try to do that again,and then we're going to play
chess constantly, right?
But in theory there's a lotmore to the game than it is,
because he's 60 feet 6 inchesand he has to throw a ball with
a 17-inch home plate within thisgap.
Well, laws of physics tell mehe can only do it so many times.
Even if I just stand there andnever swing, he's only going to
(45:57):
be able to do it so many times,and then, mathematically, he has
to come to where I get theadvantage.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Okay.
So when I heard this interviewwith Barry Bonds, I loved it,
because what he's saying and howthis applies to business and
marketing especially is whathe's saying is hey, if I just
focus on the pitcher right andforget about everyone else on
the field, like that's all Ihave to focus about to win, yeah
(46:27):
, like sure, maybe things aregonna, I'm gonna get out if I
hit the ball to somebody else,but if I'm trying to fight two
battles at once, like it's nevergonna going to work, sure, okay
.
So what often happens with withmarketing and companies is they
start focusing about everybodyinstead of focusing on who are
(46:47):
you trying to beat right now andthat is not necessarily beat,
but who are you trying to winover?
It's, it's just your, yourcustomer.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
And you're not going to be able to convince everyone
all at once.
Like, and you're not going tobe able to convince everyone all
at once.
So when you start trying to doeverything all at once and try
to figure that out, you'realways going to lose.
In marketing period You'realways going to lose.
But again, then I love how hetalks about there's only so much
space there that the pitcherhas to work with and
mathematically, eventually hehas to arrive to where he gets
(47:16):
the advantage in his swing.
But like you talked about, likehe loses More than he, that he
was winning right and everyonein baseball knows that right,
like you know, you're losingmore than you quote win on as a
batter totally yeah, cuz likewhat's an average?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
What's that?
What's the?
What's a good batting average?
You the number out, it's like250.
If you're at 300, you're unreal, which is essentially meaning
you're hitting 30% of the time30% of the time you're hitting a
ball.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, as marketers, though, you try something seven
times and you like he said hejust focused on doing the same
thing Like, hey, if I just keepdoing this, eventually the math
plays out in my favor, theprobability you start working in
my favor if I'm consistent.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, and that doesn't hold.
Can I pause you for a second?
And that doesn't mean you keep.
He also said something.
He said something there is.
I have to master battingpractice.
Yes, so he's not saying, youknow, there's the.
The old ad, the old definitionof like insanity is doing the
same thing over and over again,expecting a different result.
So it's not it's not.
I'm doing this exact same hookover and over again.
It's I'm creating content overand over again, using the same
(48:35):
principles, but I'm changingthings.
Yes, right, it's the same thingwith batting practice.
It's not like you know I'm youknow I mean.
It's not like I quit battingbecause I'm only hitting 30 of
the time.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
It's I'm gonna keep working at it so I can hit 31 of
the time or, and, and guesswhat, it might take you a
hundred swings to hit one ballyeah, your first time.
So to get one content thatworks, it might take you a
hundred swings, yeah, or athousand your first round, yeah.
But then, once you figure out,okay, this one worked.
(49:10):
How do we start thinking aboutthis and the principles that
worked with it?
Yeah, okay, it was a story.
It was this Like how do wedissect it?
How do we start then going tothe batting cage again?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, Mr B said it was like 1,000 videos.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
He was cranking out a crazy amount of videos.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Before anything happened, like he started at
like 11, and things didn't starthitting until he was like 16 or
something.
I mean it was crazy.
So I love that, because you'retalking about someone who was
considered one of the besthitters ever Steroids or not?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, steroids or not , I mean, my hot take is
everyone's on steroids, probably.
But anyways, I love thementality right, guess what
Steroids doesn't help you.
It might get you more home runs, right, but in terms of like
it's not helping you makecontact the mentality to make
(50:05):
contact and to be thatconsistent over that long.
That's incredible, and I thinkevery marketer should understand
that concept.
Yeah, I agree.
Like you're only trying to geta hit off of one person right
now.
Yeah, who's your customer?
Like that's all you need tofocus on.
Don't focus on trying to pleaseeveryone.
Don't focus on trying to makesomething that works for
(50:28):
everyone all the time.
Yeah, it's hey, this segment,this person, how does it work?
And that's all I'm, that's allI care about until I figure out
how to make it work.
Yeah, right, that's likebatting.
That's like batting practice,like you're just trying to get
that to work, yeah, with youraudience, and then, hey, maybe
you can start expanding fromthere, sure, and maybe you can
(50:48):
start mastering the curve maybeyou can start.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yes, yeah, start moving forward.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, I like it, but you're gonna strike out way more
than you're gonna hit.
So don't.
So don't say we tried this,because I'll guarantee you just
didn't do it enough.
You did it three times anddecided that it didn't work yeah
, roger fetter has a verysimilar quote.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Tennis player like he , he says, like you know, of of
all of the points in his careerthat he's ever played, he, he
throws out like some crazynumber of points he's only won
like 55, he only won 54, butthen he like rephrases the
question.
He goes like how, how many games, though?
Like how many, how many matchesdid I end up winning?
And it's over 80, right, and soit's like you just have to
(51:33):
figure out how to win enough andyou'll end up winning those.
Those wins will compound andget you on top.
So I like it.
Well, dude, I like this.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, youknow once again, you guys, if
you ever have any questions orthoughts or like hey, how do I
(51:53):
do xyz, feel free to reach out.
It's sometimes hard for me toanswer everybody's questions
there.
I'm a lot easier with DMs.
But yeah, we're going to keepdoing this, probably monthly,
where we'll break down differentaccounts, walk through
different strategies on how youcould go about doing it.
But we're in a time, day andage, right now, where
acquisition costs are rising.
(52:14):
We're in a struggling economy,just like you know.
Tariffs alone are eating intoyour profits.
Like you have to.
It is no longer, it's no longeran option to ignore organic
creative.
We've said it enough.
(52:35):
It's's no longer an option.
No, and every single brand cando it, and so hopefully this
gives you a little taste onwhere to start.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Boom, muy bueno Okay.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Well, thanks everybody.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
We'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Adios.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
Podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
(53:16):
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
You just do it until you find your format Like.
Eventually you find the formatthat works.
It's storytelling thatgenerally has to do with a big
problem that I resolved, or it'show I got somebody to wear my
product, or it's I'm telling themost outlandish stories that no
one cares about About surpluscamo.
(00:21):
But because I've told itinteresting enough, people are
watching my videos.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
Welcome to the unstoppablemarketer podcast.
It is Tuesday morning.
I am here with Mark Goldhart ona lovely, lovely Utah morning.
(00:44):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Springtime here.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Springtime.
Yeah, I just got a rooftop tent.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, that's right you did.
You told me that that'sexciting.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yes, it was very exciting.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Awesome.
It's yard work city right now.
It's kids' sports season rightnow.
For me, every night, I have oneto two things.
Every night, every Saturday isone to three things.
That's my life right now thatsounds fun it's awesome and not
(01:19):
at the same time that's like thebest way to describe it I, my
wife and I, are like, oh, wedon't ever see each other, we
don't really get to hang outanymore.
And then, but then, under thesame breath of breath, you're
like at this moment, I wouldn'thave it any other way because
your kids are doing the thinglike you go and watch like
jude's jude's undefeated sevenno, in baseball right now, and
(01:39):
last game he got the gamewinning rbi against the hardest
team in the league and it waslike you know, to me it's those
like little things like that.
That's just makes it so fun,even though you're like I really
miss my wife, right now it'sthe busyness, yeah it's usually
spring and fall
Speaker 3 (02:00):
like.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm already busy yeah adding one more busy layer.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I mean, you guys, your kids are there.
You need to, it's daunting.
Sports is this year right.
You getting them in some stuffthis year.
Yes, Maybe fall.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, this yeah, yeah, they're going to do some
wrestling this summer, nice.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So you'll know.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You'll know what I mean.
Sounds like.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Sounds like we're gonna put theo in tennis.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Let's go.
That's what I love, thatchristina wants to do oh, it's
the best sport ever yeah so youhere.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Let me tell you the other reason why tennis is the
tennis is the best sport.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm trying to figure out the whole tennis thing, so
we got to talk after for ahandful, handful reasons.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Number one this is science, this is research.
If you play tennis um more thanjust like, oh yeah, like once a
month, like somebody invites meevery now, but like if you
regularly play tennis and Iactually think this goes for
racket sports yeah, you livelonger, like 10 years longer.
Your lung, the longevity islike 7 to 10 years longer.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
That's what they say, but I don't know if it's really
the sport.
It's the sport.
Well, according to studies,it's more of the socialization
and the sport together.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, it's the cognitive and the you know,
because you have to like, make adecision within two seconds and
and perform at the samewouldn't?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I Guess golf isn't really much.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
You're not reacting no reaction time in golf.
So it's sports, it's not justwhat about fly fishing?
Probably, but.
But here's the.
The, that's reactions.
Well, well, but are you quickreflexes, but are you reacting
every two seconds?
Um, that's the thing, withtennis right.
(03:53):
You hit a ball.
Two seconds later it's back.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Boom, boom, boom boom no, I'm not saying it's more
like sniper.
I'm not saying it's more likesniper.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm not saying fly fishing, maybe.
Maybe it elongates life threeyears, two years.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I'll go look at the research.
But okay.
So number one elongates yourlife, very healthy.
Number two you can play itforever, like it's a sport that
professionally, is very hard onyour body Because you're yeah,
but if you're just playing for,even if you're playing, you know
, at a high schoolsemi-competitively yeah, you can
play your whole life, like Iplay every saturday morning with
(04:31):
like 70 year olds but anyprofessional sport is hard on
your body totally number threeand this is the reason why my
dad loved me playing.
it was because, instead ofmichael jordan being the poster
on my wall as a kid growing upand Michael Jordan as an athlete
is awesome to look at, but as ahuman being he was not a great
(04:55):
role model.
Not that he was a bad guy.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, well, no, he wasn't a badguy.
He just he was gambling a lot.
Yeah, you know, it wasn't agreat guy.
He just he was gambling a lot.
Yeah, you know?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, wasn't a great teammate to some of his people,
Was you know?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think he was a good teammate.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Just define just define what?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
like I understand what you're saying, he wasn't an
enjoyable teammate.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
He made his teams, his teammates, better.
Yes, yes, it's better.
Yes, yes, but like a RogerFederer, like most tennis
players, were just what about?
Andre, huh, yeah, you have yourblack sheet, for sure you
definitely have your black sheet.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
He's a little edgy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And he was actually like my icon as a kid because he
was such a bad boy.
Shame he went bald.
Oh yeah, that's actually one ofthe best like autobiographies
I've ever read.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Wait, I mean, he looks fine bald, but like he was
pretty iconic when.
With the long hair mullet whenhe had the whole thing going on
in the early 90s.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Good role models in tennis for the most part.
Well, I would think of all thesports I've played, the best
role models.
I think personally Of thesports I've played.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Right when I would say tennis players are just
quieter.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
It's a gentleman's sport.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So whether they're actually better or not is
totally up for debate.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
They're just not in the limelight in the way, and
you just don't hear about themeither.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So in terms like the perception of a kid.
Yes, yeah.
So in other news, to get ontopic, you sent me a.
You sent me.
I mean, we don't have a wholeton to say about it, but I
thought, I thought it wasinteresting.
You sent me a linkedin postsolo brands supposedly solo
brand so let me read thislinkedin post here.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
uh, where'd you?
I thought it was interesting.
You sent me a LinkedIn post,solo brands, supposedly Solo
brands.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Let me read this LinkedIn post here Allegedly
Where's your text messages to me?
I've got you saved in myfavorites.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I'm in the favorites.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Last week.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
As you are for me Sorry last Wednesday.
You're the only one who can getthrough.
Do Not Disturb.
It always says that I'm Do.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Not, do not disturb, but I always click notify well
for text messages.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, but if you call me, it comes, sir.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yes, you and my wife, nice, are the only one, because
I know you're only going tocall me if I need it, if I need
you, if you need me or if I needa vent about a client, that's
it.
Last Wednesday, solo Brands,now worth $2 million, was
delisted from the New York StockExchange, the NYSE.
(07:34):
They'll be in bankruptcy beforethe end of the summer.
Who wants to put a bid in forChubby Shorts with me?
Top line $112 million, ebitda,$15 million.
So Solo Brands.
They bought chubbies.
Yeah, they did um.
So solo stove or I don't knowhow it worked.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah to be honest, I don't know if someone bought
chubbies and then they bought itfrom that.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I don't know how that transaction happened solo stove
, but very interesting, um, veryinteresting what's happening
maybe with some of those brands.
We don't have a whole ton ofinsights, but Well on March 14th
, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
According to Retail Dive, it said that the company
issued a going concern statement, citing challenges related to
liquidity and existing debt.
Their net sales fell 8% yearover year to 450 million ouch.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So times are hard.
Times are hard, which I feellike we have this conversation
every week, so we're not goingto dive into it, but the, the, I
think the point, the reason whyI wanted to bring up chubbies
is the only one performing theirportfolio too the only one I
wanted to bring up was uh, or?
the reason why I wanted to bringit up was just to show like
it's not just the small brands,but it's the big brands that are
(08:53):
getting hurt too.
Right, and what sounds like isdebt oftentimes falls within the
opex side of things, and that'sa huge thing that we've talked
a lot about, which is, you know,hey, in trying times, most
people want to cut theirmarketing.
Hey, let me find a cheapermedia buyer.
(09:14):
Hey, let me spend less here onmarketing, when in reality, I
would say, hey, find a way tosqueeze your OPEX before you
start cutting the hand thatfeeds you.
So anything else you want tosay to that, before we jump into
what we wanted to discuss today, yeah, I think the other thing
is just.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
it's interesting.
I think a lot of people thatlisten to this podcast don't
have to worry about what SoloBrands is going through.
Sure, you're probably not doing$450 million in total sales
last year as a guy, as a companyor an umbrella yeah but it does
beg the question right likewhat is, what is the goal of an
(09:56):
e-commerce company?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
it's a great question .
I think most people would sayto grow and to sell.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Exactly like.
I want to sell, I want to getacquired, which is great.
It worked out for chubbiesreally well.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But this might seem a little like Jekyll and Hyde
from our last conversation, butif you listen to our last
podcast, it was very.
We were very pro growth yeslike you have to be growing yes
but there's a caveat with that,which is like it depends on what
(10:37):
your business goals are.
But I think a lot of people putthe cart before the horse,
right and like they just say, wewant to grow at X percent, yeah
, before realizing what kind ofhorse they need to get to
actually pull that kind of cart.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And a lot of what we talked about last week was hey,
if you want to grow and if yourbusiness relies on growing which
most businesses do to someextent, just depends on what
your goals are, yeah Well, doyou want to get acquired
eventually?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
and if so, for how much?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
too right like you're going to play a very different
game than if it's like, hey, Iwant to be, I want to serve this
subset of an audience right,because, like when you're
talking about public companiesgenerally, you're talking about
pretty big Tams.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, yeah, so If you're talking about a big tam,
total addressable market thenyeah, it's just totally
different yeah but if you're, ifyou're doing, let's call it
Baby shoes, you're doing, let'scall it baby shoes.
(11:50):
Like it is, like it is, but itisn't yeah, not a billion dollar
tam.
I mean I'd say billion dollarsure but but a very hard, oh
yeah, okay but, if you're sure,billion e-commerce company
amongst many, yes, how do youget to a billion?
Sure, but it's gonna be, youknow, and maybe depending on,
(12:10):
like, your unique Sellingproposition, like it's a little,
yeah, different.
So just just know, when we,when we get adamant about things
like, just remember, zoom out,like we talked about last week.
Zoom out, like what, what isthe actual goal here?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yes, if you're not growing as a business, you're
probably not going to be aroundsuper long.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
But define what growth is right.
You don't have to be growing,you don't have to be 10xing, you
don't have to do 50% every year.
Yeah or yeah or yeah you don'thave to, yeah, you can.
If you don't have to, yeah, youcan.
If you don't grow, yes, youwill become extinct Eventually.
Eventually, that's justAbsolutely, but you know, this
happened here, that's auniversal law.
Yes, you happen here.
This happened here in Utah.
(12:54):
Like.
So Utah is a big e-com hub andthere were tons of brands that
just like what would you say?
Between 2014 and 2018, thatstarted and just they became
like the darlings of utah andand darling e-commerce companies
in a lot of ways but, then justkind of dissipated and a lot of
it dissipated because theytried to grow too fast, like
(13:15):
like 30 growth year over yearwasn't good enough, and so
sometimes when you make and fulldisclosure.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
we very much were in that kind of train of thought.
Oh yeah, for sure, in 2016, 17,it was like, hey, let's just
grow.
But part of that though just togive everyone a little grace
here who was going throughbusiness at that time it seemed
(13:45):
a lot more doable because costswere so cheap with ads, sure and
as of the organic reach well,and you didn't have the creator
economy that was as much in play.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
You also didn't have, like Alibaba and all these
things that have made it so mucheasier for competitors to come
in.
So even though there wascompetition it was it was
significantly less back in 2018than it is today right.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, it was just like a brand new tree.
There wasn't any moss on it,there was nothing like living
off of it, it was just likegrowing straight towards the sky
.
Yeah, uninhibited.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, so that's that.
So that's not what we want totalk about today.
We've already gone into that,we've already gone into that,
we've already dove into it.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, but I just want to preface that with this
conference, conversationalConversationist.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Conversation.
Okay, move on.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
What do you?
We did talk a lot about whosucceeded back then, and it had
a lot to do with organic contenttotally, which is a great segue
which the organic content gamehas changed, changed
significantly in 2018.
Pretty pictures yeah which,depending on your brand, that
(14:57):
might still work, but probablynot yeah, the picture, pretty
picture.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Game works when it's very unique.
Yes, right, but it's not thatsame.
I always game works when it'svery unique.
Yes, right, but it's not thatsame.
I use it.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
It's like the pastel flat lay you know Well,
basically, are you high fashionor are you not?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Model in front of a really cool setting.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Like that just all blends in, that's all noise.
Yes, like, did that come fromanthropology?
Did it come from Nordstrom?
Did it come from, you know,boutique A here?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Boutique B yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I don't know, maybe all of the above.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Probably not so.
Okay, so, speaking of, okay, sowhat has changed?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Who's winning?
We want to show you guys somewinning, yeah, okay.
So, yeah, let's, let's prefacethis.
So I get a ton of questions onmy personal social media, which
ties into the podcast, into ouroverall right.
My personal social media isessentially marks like that's
kind of how we operate thingstogether, and One of the biggest
questions I get from everybodyis like okay, I do not see
anything on there, though, so ifyou do want to talk shit on me,
(16:07):
you can DM him.
I will defend you though.
I will not see it.
I get a ton of people who aresaying, oh, what should I do if
I'm this company?
Or, oh, can you give me somegood examples of brands that are
doing organic right, and wefigured, you know what.
We talk a ton about organic allthe time and how important it
(16:28):
is and how people suck at it andhow people should be doing
better, and sometimes we feellike we're beating a dead horse
where we're like hey well, we'renot really giving you any.
Yeah, we thought, hey, what ifwe?
In order for us to still talkabout it.
What if we start taking brandsthat we discover and they're not
going to be the brands thateveryone else talks about, the
brands that everyone else talksabout, Just to let you know, I
(16:48):
hear all the you know socialmedia gurus.
Look at what Chipotle is doing,Look at what Ryan air is doing.
Like, those are like your two,like, go to the biggest brands.
I, we don't care about thosepeople.
Those are the easy ones for youto find.
We're we're talking about peoplethat you've, if you've heard of
(17:10):
them that you can hopefully beable to replicate they're.
They're most likely in a verysimilar, um, size of business
that you were, or at least atone point were, and this is the
thing that catalyst and tookthem to another level, Um, so
hopefully there are brands youhaven't heard of.
So, with that said, we'll pullit up on the screen.
But also, if you're watching,highly recommend you watch this
(17:30):
YouTube.
So, if you're watching this by,or if you're, if you're
listening to this, this episodeyou need to watch.
So so you got to go to YouTube.
You got to go to theunstoppable marker podcast, um,
because we're going to beshowcasing these videos.
I came across the AmericanaPipe Dream Apparel Company and
I've like fallen in love withthis TikTok account.
(17:51):
It's like unreal.
So I sent this to Mark lastweek, was it?
You want to give them, like arundown of what this company is?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's a military surplus company.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Which means what?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
They sell.
It's like a giant.
It's a giant second-hand shopof it's not always used stuff,
but it's just like surplus stufffrom like military-type
outfitters.
Yeah, so stuff that maybe so,like tents, canvas.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Pants knives.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Jackets yeah, canvas like canvas jackets yeah.
That the military issued in1985 and it's been sitting in a
warehouse for like 20 years.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
yeah and or I have no idea how they buy it, but they,
you know, they probably justlike bid on something yeah, it's
just stuff that people find inboxes and they're probably like,
hey, let's get rid of it sellit for pennies on the dollar
yeah you know, and then you guysturn around and make a big
profit on it and I think they'redoing relatively well.
When I looked up, uh, theirrevenue numbers, I can't
remember off the top of my head,but I wanted to showcase a
(18:52):
couple videos and, and I want tobreak it down, um, the first
one I have to do is just likethe hook just says the word the
talabans.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
All right, so let's watch the here, the one to the
left.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, the one to the left.
Oh, but this dude's a legend.
All right, let's watch thishere.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
The Taliban's favorite shoe, the Service.
Cheetah Service is a shoemakingcompany based out of Pakistan
that started in World War IIwhen they began manufacturing
boots for the British military.
Since then, they've expandedtheir lineup to include anything
from work boots to runningshoes and, of course, the white
cheetah high top sneaker.
During the NATO occupation ofAfghanistan, us troops were told
to be on the lookout foranybody seen wearing a pair of
(19:32):
these cheetah high tops, becausethey were most likely members
of the Taliban.
White cheetah high tops back instock at AP sizes 7 through 13.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
So so like let's break this down.
Like that video has 1.9 millionviews 1.9 million views,
169,000 likes, 1600 comments,23,000 Saves, 10,000 shares.
Um, what do you like about thislike?
(20:05):
Why did it?
Why are you thinking it'sgetting that Outside of the hook
?
Because the hook is crazy?
You say anything about theTaliban's favorite shoe or
something like that.
That's just a wild.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It is a wild hook, but what they do well is A.
They're using Interestingtransitions and zoom ins and
zoom outs, so editing is reallygood.
So the editing is real and ifyou look at all their videos,
they do a really good job ofthis right like they'll have
like interesting backdrops thatthey'll swap in and out like
(20:36):
little animations that they putinto it.
So, yeah, they're keeping itcatchy throughout the entire
because, like, what he's sayingand how he's saying it he's
saying and how he's saying ithe's not that no offense.
He's not giving it with like aton of gusto.
Sure, in most of his videoshe's not.
It's not like he's this big.
In fact he's more dry.
Yeah, he's really dry.
(20:57):
He's not like this big guy.
I don't know Big acting typepersonality, he's just kind of
chillin and hanging out, butit's like, look, he changes the
position that he's in a fewtimes.
Like, if you go through thevideo, you're gonna see him like
standing.
You're gonna see him sittingRight like that interesting zoom
out.
See how I like that it cuts himso it keeps you at the back to
(21:18):
the front.
Yeah.
Anybody keep going and then itgoes in and then you're gonna
have another one of.
But if you see that firsttransition we talk about this a
lot with people is that thathappens usually within one to
two seconds.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, and then that's him like on a different step,
now set back.
So I think the editing's good.
And so he does this a lot.
I think like oh, whoops, I gotmy.
Uh, I've been on TikTok for toolong today.
Um, I like.
So I think there's a lot ofvisual hooks to it as well.
Right, he is dressed somewhatlike Taliban-y.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, yeah, his outfit is interesting and funny
yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Um.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So I think they he crushes it with visual hooks but
I think the most importantthings is what's really really
cool the homie's just on astaircase.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Is he?
I think the reason why hecrushes it is because he's
telling interesting stories.
He definitely is.
So he's taking.
He's taking something like.
He's like he's telling a storyabout how these shoes that the
Taliban wore like would you haveever thought you cared about
that story?
Uh, no, would you have?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
ever thought you cared about that story?
No, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But it's interesting, right, and so you have one.
I think you have people whojust fit this world of like you
know, kind of more military, youknow, I don't know, it's more
of your man's manny type, person, camper, whatever their
audience is.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I don't even know Like at this point with Gen Z.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
This could just be, yeah, a fashion thing for sure
gen z girls could be into thistoo, yeah but I think that I
think that's where, so let's goto another.
Another one here how much didworld?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
war ii german camo impact.
Post-war militaries well, it'sa lot actually.
Today we're going to be talkingabout taz 83 alpenflage at the
end of world war ii.
The germans thought that itmight be.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
But if you notice he uses in the editing right Like,
yes, the storytelling, for sure,but the way he keeps people
visually engaged even though hedoesn't have a lot to be showing
.
Sure yeah, he's in the same spot, I think that's the trick that
TikTokers have figured out is inyour strategy.
(23:26):
If you are not cutting everysecond, almost you're going to
miss out on on view length.
Yeah, and that's what we seerunning ads.
Right, the more you're cuttingsomething up.
And when I say cutting it up up, it doesn't necessarily mean a
full transition to a differentscene.
(23:47):
It's just like zoom in, sure,zoom out.
Yeah, right, like there'ssomething visually happening.
There's like a set, like acaption.
It gets really big yeah right,the captions become colored and
big and then and then go backdown, depending to like to
emphasize a word.
Yeah, yeah, like that's whatwe're talking about, like
creativity, and in the theprocess yeah, it's just
different, because this guy's ina warehouse right now and, like
(24:08):
this thing has 110 000 likesyeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And this one had I can't remember how many views,
but a couple, a couple millionmaybe, but so a stories are
interesting what's really coolabout this when you say stories
but he's keeping you visuallyengaged through the process,
totally.
I love that.
Like it's funny Cause you'vethought you've kind of focused
more on the editing, the jumping, the back and forth, and like
(24:34):
my big takeaway was not not notthat you disagreed with the
stories, but what I think isreally cool is is I think a lot
of people, a lot of brands, havea hard time.
Um, they have a hard timejustifying the content they
create because they're nottalking about the product.
So like if, if it, if it's notproduct focused, they think it's
(24:55):
not going to sell.
So like, if a video doesn'thave anything to do with the
product or whatever, that brandsjust get like caught up and and
and I, if you're listening tothis, I don't know if you feel
this way, but I've I've heardthis from time and time and time
again from brands is thatthey're like well, we have to
sell the product if we'recreating content around it.
Where what's happening right now, especially on Tik TOK, is that
that just doesn't work.
(25:16):
Like talking about your productover and over and over again,
selling, selling, selling.
It's the old way that we talkedabout the pictures of a girl
behind a castle wearing a cutetop, that anthropology is
selling.
That stuff doesn't work anymore.
It used to work really, reallywell and now it doesn't.
So people don't like theproduct-focused stuff.
(25:37):
However, what's really coolabout this?
Everything they're doing isproduct-focused.
So why does it work?
Because they're telling a storyabout the uniqueness of the
product.
Correct, right, so you can haveall of your content be about
product.
I think that sometimes, atleast on my TikTok, I'm always
saying stop talking about yourproduct, stop selling the
(26:00):
product, stop, stop, stop.
But at the end of the day, youcan do it if you do it right.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Like if I fast forwardforward this watch, and
it was asking $600 for a shirt.
Luckily for you, these jacketsare only 35 bucks.
And you can't forget thematching pants and the rock.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's like they have a call to action that's selling
after every video.
Very true, but they can do itbecause he's intertwining
stories on how that product cameto be.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, I mean, but I think that that's goes back to
like if you're, if you want totalk about your product without
talking about your productbecause, again, most, most
companies aren't going to fallinto this category.
Yeah, like he's got interest,like the products that he's that
he is selling all have aninteresting war story to it or a
(26:49):
tit like a nice, weird fact,right?
However, the lesson that youcan learn as a company is he's
weaving in these stories as he'stalking about and just showing
the product.
So if you go on tiktok, a lotof the viral content or a lot of
the stuff that people get stuckon is just like somebody
telling a story about something.
(27:11):
But then it's just like visual,I don't know, like visual
Addictive scenes going on like afactory line or things getting
crushed or whatever you knowyeah well, they do that because
it'll keep you visually engaged,but like it's also the story,
so it's like you're kind of
Speaker 1 (27:31):
trying to hook you in like two ways yeah and a hot
ball melting ice?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
yes, just something like that, right, and you can,
you and you can use those weirdthings as, just as, hooks, yeah,
so if you're a I don't know,let's, let's say uh, what's a
brand that you like right now?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I mean I like standard issue cool.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So if you're, if you're an apparel company, yeah,
what can you be talking aboutwhile you're telling stories
wearing your products?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
You could be talking about how you made it.
You could be talking about howyou make it like, how you
decided to.
You know especially somethingunique to, maybe why you design
the pants slightly differentcompared to somebody else, right
?
Or you could talk about achallenge.
Do you remember the company?
Uh, they rebranded, I think Ican't remember they rebranded
(28:28):
too, but they were calledsuckers.
We had them on the podcast, sohe would just retell this story
over and over again.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
So he was constantly talking about his product yeah,
but how hard it was to make theyeah, which was?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
it was hard candy that was not healthy but
healthier, right, you know, lesssugar, and I think they
rebranded to.
Bad mouth is what what theyrebranded to.
But anyways, he would tell thestory over and over again about
how hard it was to find amanufacturer, and it was
constantly about him testing,you know, and the visuals were
about him and his, his I can'tremember if it's his girlfriend
(28:59):
or wife creating this companytogether.
And you know, he also had thisstory about how one time he
pressed like a red button thatruined their production and lost
them 20 grand, or you know.
So it's.
It's these interesting storiesthat have the product all
intertwined.
Yeah, is that kind of what youwere looking for?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, and so you can do that, and then you can also
tell stories about your audience.
So if you are selling to Idon't know let's just call it 25
year old men and you're sellingshirts to 25 to 40 year old men
, like, what stories areinteresting?
(29:38):
Yeah, what are they interestedin?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, this is how we got LeBron james.
Let's let's standard issueright 25 to 40 year olds hey,
this is yeah, this is how we gotlebron james basketball, but
what a cool story everybodyknows lebron, what a cool story
yeah, to be like hey, this ishow we got lebron, james and
jay-z to wear our hoodies.
Like that hook is a good hookand and the hook is like the
(30:03):
visuals, like a slide of lebron,a slide of jay-z jay-z, and
then it's the founder orwhomever telling this story.
Okay, cool, and we know theseguys, so we're giving them right
.
So, for example, one of thefounders, his name is jimmy and
he's a professional skateboarder, right, and so he has ties into
(30:24):
fame, right.
Whether he knows lebrondirectly or he knows his agent,
I can't remember, but it's like,oh, hey, cool.
Uh, you know, this is how wegot lebron and jay-z to wear our
stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I'm a professional skateboarder or they had like
bryce harper wearing their stuffyeah, yeah, because he's from
philly yeah, exactly, hey.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
This is how we got a collaboration with the
philadelphia eagles, becausethey did that too, but those
cool stories that haveeverything to do with your
product, but it's such a uniquestory.
It's not talking about yourproduct yeah, exactly right, but
it is and it isn't at the sametime well, you're not just like,
hey, this is what my product is, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Here's this fun story while you're seeing my product
and like cool people wearing myproduct totally and like why my
product's cool so this worksawesome.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
This guy works awesome because he's just
breaking down.
You know he's telling reallycool and this guy's a great
storyteller too, right, yeah,he's finding really interesting
stories.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, that tie into the surplus pants he just bought
, or the so this, this is theone that I liked, because this
is two days ago.
It's already at 34 000 likesand if you watch it, you want to
press play.
Yeah, go back.
Okay, this man lived alone inthe okay.
This is what I'm talking aboutthe transitions you start.
It's him like always this is astory about goes and do it right
(31:44):
.
Has this like nice little editcut where he's like pasting the
image of this homie here.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, and then within , let 's see yeah, like within,
and then it zooms in and it'sall within like three different
scenes?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yes, yeah, it's like within a second, like he's just
doing these visual transitionsto To hook you in.
Now the story is reallyinteresting, right?
Yeah, but people aren't ontiktok to listen to an audiobook
yeah like they're.
They're not right, so, likeyou're, they're not just gonna
sit there and listen to a storyevery single time, totally so
how do you keep people engagedvisually?
(32:17):
Is, a, he's telling aninteresting story.
B, he's using interesting, justvisual hooks.
And these are nothing crazy.
This isn't anything that, like,you can't do depending on your
budget.
Like this isn't like oh sorry,like I got to go hire a high end
agency to make these edits.
You can figure this out totallyas a small company.
Yeah, it's not.
(32:37):
It takes time.
I'm telling you it takes time.
It's not easy, but you canfigure it out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Well, I do this not to bring this into like my world
here, but like, if I like Ihave been doing this with Like.
Like, watch this here.
I do all my editing in CapCutand if you go to this video,
they got four hundred and fivethousand views.
So like, see that transitionright there, cut.
And if you go to this video,they got four hundred and five
thousand views, so like, seethat transition right there.
(33:06):
Like, I do all this in CapCut.
So I say the hook and then boom, there's a, there's a whole new
transition.
Right there, there's a newtransition.
You know, like you, you can goin and out and use different,
different scenes, different jumpcuts.
One time you're zoomed in on aface, the other time you're
(33:27):
zoomed out on a face.
There's several different waysyou can do this.
I film all this on my iPod andor my iPod, my iPhone, and edit
in CapCut, ipod Nano.
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Speaker 2 (34:28):
The moral of the story here guys, is go watch
some interesting content ifyou're.
If you're struggling withgetting out of the mindset of,
like I need to sell, I need totalk about my product directly,
it's's, it's zoom out, and howdo you talk about it indirectly
and honestly, the best way forme to get into this frame of
(34:49):
mind is I like, think of a goodbook.
You like, like I love the Lordof the Rings trilogy.
I'm going to put this down.
I keep touching it and when.
I'm thinking about Lord of theRings.
It's like, well, what's theactual message of the story and
how do authors create themessage of the story?
(35:11):
But it's like you have thisjourney that gets you to the
message, right, and then themessage comes together at the
end.
They're not just telling youright at the beginning, right.
It's not like you start lord ofthe rings and like, hey, it's
about overcoming trials andhere's the tldr maintaining
(35:31):
innocence and the face of eviland right, whatever right it's
it's.
Hey, let me introduce you tosome interesting characters.
Let me take you through thisjourney.
Let's suffer with them.
Let's like watch them get overthings.
Let's go through a journeytogether.
Through this journey, let'ssuffer with them.
Let's like watch them get overthings.
Let's go through a journeytogether, yeah, and then let's
weave it all at the end.
Yeah, totally like no goodmovie gives you everything right
(35:53):
at the beginning.
Yeah, right, yeah.
But why does it keep you drawnin throughout the entire movie?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
yeah, you usually good stories are.
I think there's probably.
I'm probably missing here, butif I remember it's like it's
like three different steps.
It's like let's go four steps.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
You have a good hook, then you give context, then you
give conflict, then you give aresolution and the good hook the
good hook for a story generallyis I care about this character
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, why should you care about this?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
yeah, so I care about a character for some reason.
Yeah, why should you care aboutthis?
Yeah, so I care about acharacter for some reason, like
I'm emotionally invested into acharacter.
Yep, right, severance.
Everyone is emotionallyinvested into the characters of
the show Marcus, marcus mostly,and Helly DLG Irving.
(36:44):
So why are you emotionallyinvested into these people?
Now you have the way people andthen the way they do.
It is.
There's often, you know, abook's different, but in a movie
they'll keep you visuallyengaged.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, and that's what thesepeople are doing.
Right, like a movie.
A great movie will keep youvisually engaged, even though
(37:04):
you're not like totally boughtinto a character right off of
sure.
Scene one.
Yeah, although there are somemovies where scene number one
will have you.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Like rooting or hating that person immediately
and that's the Dark Knight.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah like if you watch the Dark Knight, scene
number one is the bank Robbery.
Yeah, that introduces you toLike if you watch the Dark
Knight scene number one is thebank robbery.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
That introduces you to spoiler alerts.
The Joker, right.
So from scene number one, youare drawn into excitement.
Yeah, although you don't knowwho these people are.
Like you know something bad'shappening.
You can kind of figure outthey're robbers, right.
But it draws you in in a wayand then introduces you to the
(37:47):
Joker within five minutes.
Yeah, that has you captivatedfor the rest of the show, yeah,
of how it's going to play out.
Yeah, but it's very visual,right.
It's exciting.
Think about how you do that inyour 30-second TikTok videos.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah.
It has to be visually excitingor interesting for someone to
stick around for a story, and Ithink nowadays the visual is
just as important as the actualstory itself, because there's so
much more content and so muchcompetition that maybe just
telling a story in front of acamera worked really well
(38:24):
without any of the transitionsor anything like that, and it
still works for sure Like ifit's a very if you're not
telling any story, do that.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, start telling just a story to the camera.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
But I like the idea with stories with hooks is like,
oftentimes the hook is isusually the end Like hey, like
we said, hey, hey, this is howwe got jay-z and lebron to wear
our stuff.
You know, in this guys it'slike, hey, this is the taliban's
favorite shoe, you know, it'slike it's like this you got
these like just kind of punchypunchy hooks.
Sometimes also a really goodhook is just like you jump into
(38:54):
the story.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
So last night, and I'm telling you right now, your
hooks probably aren't fastenough last night the craziest
thing happened to me well, thelast one we watched.
He said this is a story aboutthis guy who survived 20 years
or 30 years in the wildernessyeah and that's interesting yeah
like 30 years and done in threeseconds.
What does that mean?
(39:16):
Yeah, and then he goes into thestory.
Yeah, that's posted two daysago.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Like that's not an old no, yeah, it hasn't been
just gathering.
What was that one, that one hadlike?
35,000 or 38,000 somethingviews, but for brand accounts to
be getting no that one had252,000.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Likes is what I was referringto.
But yeah, 252,000 views on thatvideo in two days and if you go
through this guy's stuff you'llsee video in two days and if
you go through this guy's stuff,you'll see I mean, he is, he's
consistent.
Oh yeah, like he's, he'sbatting he's batting over 300,
right?
Speaker 1 (39:51):
yeah, like to see, to see like a 4 000 viewer like
that one right there on the topright like that's.
That's very rare in this guy'saccount.
Most of them are 20,000, 30,000, 19,000, 260, 330, 113, 10.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
And he's got some misses, but that's just called
life, guys.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Look, I can click on most popular right.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
So when we've consulted with some businesses,
sometimes we'll bring up somestrategies for them to utilize,
and oftentimes you'll hearsomeone in the company say, well
, we do that, we've done that,and it doesn't work.
Yeah, and you say, oh, you have.
Okay, Like, explain to me howyou've done that.
(40:41):
Yeah, like, how many times didyou do that?
And it's usually like we didthis thing one time, yeah, and
it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
We tried it once yeah .
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Or we thought about doing this and like the
execution was pretty bad andlike they didn't do it again.
Yeah, so what I love aboutthese guys and if you just go
and look at anyone who'ssuccessful at telling stories,
this isn't, this is not anovernight thing.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Like you will, you will.
You will most likely failpretty pretty miserably for the
first couple months.
Yeah, yeah, one of my favoritelike Trevor is a good example of
that.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Sure, like I was, I was super successful with my
content early.
So from like 20 to 2022, it wasawesome, but from like 2022 to
2024, it was abysmal.
It was like a downhill slide,you know.
And then up until the last likefour or five months, it's
gotten significantly better.
And what's great about thiskind of stuff is you you don't
(41:41):
need home runs every time At anygiven time.
On my own Instagram account, Ihave between 500,000 and 700,000
people viewing my profile andif you go look at it, you'll see
plenty of videos that only have1,000 views.
But then you have two or threein there that were 10,000 to
(42:02):
30,000, and then you have one inthere that was 400,000.
And you know, really all ittakes is a few videos a month.
That that brings in themajority of that.
One of my favorite lines from apodcast this was probably like
in our first year of podcasting.
We had the founder of seeksupply, which is like a uh clear
(42:24):
protein powder.
His name is Ben Zaver, ifanyone remembers.
This like the episode wasawesome and we were interviewing
him because they he crushes itwith Tik TOK and brand content,
and one of my favorite lines hesaid was like you just do it
until you find your format.
Like, eventually you find theformat that works.
(42:45):
You know, uh, it's storytellingthat generally has to do with a
big problem that I resolved, orit's how I got somebody to wear
my product, or it's I'm tellingthe most outlandish stories
that no one cares about.
But but the you know, aboutsurplus camo.
(43:07):
But because I've told itinteresting enough, people are
watching my videos, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
So you just have you seen the new Barry Bonds video
where he's getting interviewedabout his mentality when he was
at the play.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Yep, mathematically calculate what a pitcher can and
can't do.
Once I can calculate you, thenI can beat you and then and then
.
Then it becomes this what isbeating him right?
The goal of hitting is it's meand him, and if I can keep that
tunnel vision between me and himand forget the goons that are
(43:41):
around him, because in theory myjob is just to hit him and be
good against him.
Understanding the velocity of apitch, just a fastball.
So we're just going to use afastball analysis, because you
have a guy that throws battingpractice to you every single day
and he only throws a fastballright and he tries to help you
be really good and we screw thatup half the time.
(44:02):
So I had to figure out how tomaster batting practice first,
because this guy is trying tohelp me, you know.
So how do I can direct that?
Now?
I'm going to piece it to speed.
Now I have to understand whatmy swing technique is and then
understand the velocity of apitch and velocity of the ball.
The further.
The faster it comes to me, thefurther it goes.
Right, but I don't change who Iam Right Now.
(44:29):
If I can focus on him, Ialready know the speed of a ball
off.
My bat goes a certain speed.
I don't care how many peopleare over here, I can still
squeeze it through you.
It's not like you're going tocatch every single thing, right?
So my job is, my victory is tomake contact off of him.
Once I do that, everything elseis out of the equation, right.
So in theory, I win.
I really do win, even thoughthe pitcher standing on the
mound going I got you out.
No, the second baseman did all.
(44:50):
Right now, filler did not hityou, this guy.
You were already out of theequation.
So we took all these people offthe field.
You, you would lose so much.
It'd be really crazy, right?
So now I have to redirect mybrain into this tunnel vision of
understanding.
If I can concentrate enough tome and him, they'd slowly
disappear.
But I can't fight two people atonce.
(45:11):
I can't say I hit a line driveto a shortstop or hit a line
drive to the outfielder and hemade a catch.
Now I want to try to beat themboth.
You can't One-on-one.
I can fight, but I can't fighttwo-on-one.
I'm going to lose.
So I have to refocus and goright back to here and go.
Let me try to do that again,let me try to do that again, and
(45:34):
let me try to do that again,and then we're going to play
chess constantly, right?
But in theory there's a lotmore to the game than it is,
because he's 60 feet 6 inchesand he has to throw a ball with
a 17-inch home plate within thisgap.
Well, laws of physics tell mehe can only do it so many times.
Even if I just stand there andnever swing, he's only going to
(45:57):
be able to do it so many times,and then, mathematically, he has
to come to where I get theadvantage.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Okay.
So when I heard this interviewwith Barry Bonds, I loved it,
because what he's saying and howthis applies to business and
marketing especially is whathe's saying is hey, if I just
focus on the pitcher right andforget about everyone else on
the field, like that's all Ihave to focus about to win, yeah
(46:27):
, like sure, maybe things aregonna, I'm gonna get out if I
hit the ball to somebody else,but if I'm trying to fight two
battles at once, like it's nevergonna going to work, sure, okay
.
So what often happens with withmarketing and companies is they
start focusing about everybodyinstead of focusing on who are
(46:47):
you trying to beat right now andthat is not necessarily beat,
but who are you trying to winover?
It's, it's just your, yourcustomer.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
And you're not going to be able to convince everyone
all at once.
Like, and you're not going tobe able to convince everyone all
at once.
So when you start trying to doeverything all at once and try
to figure that out, you'realways going to lose.
In marketing period You'realways going to lose.
But again, then I love how hetalks about there's only so much
space there that the pitcherhas to work with and
mathematically, eventually hehas to arrive to where he gets
(47:16):
the advantage in his swing.
But like you talked about, likehe loses More than he, that he
was winning right and everyonein baseball knows that right,
like you know, you're losingmore than you quote win on as a
batter totally yeah, cuz likewhat's an average?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
What's that?
What's the?
What's a good batting average?
You the number out, it's like250.
If you're at 300, you're unreal, which is essentially meaning
you're hitting 30% of the time30% of the time you're hitting a
ball.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, as marketers, though, you try something seven
times and you like he said hejust focused on doing the same
thing Like, hey, if I just keepdoing this, eventually the math
plays out in my favor, theprobability you start working in
my favor if I'm consistent.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, and that doesn't hold.
Can I pause you for a second?
And that doesn't mean you keep.
He also said something.
He said something there is.
I have to master battingpractice.
Yes, so he's not saying, youknow, there's the.
The old ad, the old definitionof like insanity is doing the
same thing over and over again,expecting a different result.
So it's not it's not.
I'm doing this exact same hookover and over again.
It's I'm creating content overand over again, using the same
(48:35):
principles, but I'm changingthings.
Yes, right, it's the same thingwith batting practice.
It's not like you know I'm youknow I mean.
It's not like I quit battingbecause I'm only hitting 30 of
the time.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
It's I'm gonna keep working at it so I can hit 31 of
the time or, and, and guesswhat, it might take you a
hundred swings to hit one ballyeah, your first time.
So to get one content thatworks, it might take you a
hundred swings, yeah, or athousand your first round, yeah.
But then, once you figure out,okay, this one worked.
(49:10):
How do we start thinking aboutthis and the principles that
worked with it?
Yeah, okay, it was a story.
It was this Like how do wedissect it?
How do we start then going tothe batting cage again?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, Mr B said it was like 1,000 videos.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
He was cranking out a crazy amount of videos.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Before anything happened, like he started at
like 11, and things didn't starthitting until he was like 16 or
something.
I mean it was crazy.
So I love that, because you'retalking about someone who was
considered one of the besthitters ever Steroids or not?
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, steroids or not , I mean, my hot take is
everyone's on steroids, probably.
But anyways, I love thementality right, guess what
Steroids doesn't help you.
It might get you more home runs, right, but in terms of like
it's not helping you makecontact the mentality to make
(50:05):
contact and to be thatconsistent over that long.
That's incredible, and I thinkevery marketer should understand
that concept.
Yeah, I agree.
Like you're only trying to geta hit off of one person right
now.
Yeah, who's your customer?
Like that's all you need tofocus on.
Don't focus on trying to pleaseeveryone.
Don't focus on trying to makesomething that works for
(50:28):
everyone all the time.
Yeah, it's hey, this segment,this person, how does it work?
And that's all I'm, that's allI care about until I figure out
how to make it work.
Yeah, right, that's likebatting.
That's like batting practice,like you're just trying to get
that to work, yeah, with youraudience, and then, hey, maybe
you can start expanding fromthere, sure, and maybe you can
(50:48):
start mastering the curve maybeyou can start.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yes, yeah, start moving forward.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, I like it, but you're gonna strike out way more
than you're gonna hit.
So don't.
So don't say we tried this,because I'll guarantee you just
didn't do it enough.
You did it three times anddecided that it didn't work yeah
, roger fetter has a verysimilar quote.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Tennis player like he , he says, like you know, of of
all of the points in his careerthat he's ever played, he, he
throws out like some crazynumber of points he's only won
like 55, he only won 54, butthen he like rephrases the
question.
He goes like how, how many games, though?
Like how many, how many matchesdid I end up winning?
And it's over 80, right, and soit's like you just have to
(51:33):
figure out how to win enough andyou'll end up winning those.
Those wins will compound andget you on top.
So I like it.
Well, dude, I like this.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully, youknow once again, you guys, if
you ever have any questions orthoughts or like hey, how do I
(51:53):
do xyz, feel free to reach out.
It's sometimes hard for me toanswer everybody's questions
there.
I'm a lot easier with DMs.
But yeah, we're going to keepdoing this, probably monthly,
where we'll break down differentaccounts, walk through
different strategies on how youcould go about doing it.
But we're in a time, day andage, right now, where
acquisition costs are rising.
(52:14):
We're in a struggling economy,just like you know.
Tariffs alone are eating intoyour profits.
Like you have to.
It is no longer, it's no longeran option to ignore organic
creative.
We've said it enough.
(52:35):
It's's no longer an option.
No, and every single brand cando it, and so hopefully this
gives you a little taste onwhere to start.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Boom, muy bueno Okay.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Well, thanks everybody.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
We'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Adios.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
Podcast.
Please go rate and subscribethe podcast, whether it's good
or bad.
We want to hear from youbecause we always want to make
this podcast better.
If you want to get in touchwith me or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
(53:16):
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
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