June 17, 2025 • 44 mins
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldheart dissect Jaguar's disastrous rebranding, which led to a 50% sales drop. They explore the perils of alienating core audiences and the misconception that constant growth is necessary. The duo offers insights on doubling down on existing markets, understanding true market size, and the nuances of customer acquisition costs. They caution against hasty pivots to new audiences without proper market research.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So it was like copy nothing.
And then I was like what areyou?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And then Elon, immediately, do you sell cars?
Question mark, because the adwas so terrible.
Jaguar sales have been cut inhalf and the rebrand has been
like an absolute debacle.
It doesn't mean that it was allfrom this.
Things have been going awry fora minute.
It was just the nail in thecoffin.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
(00:23):
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me, as always, is MarkGoldheart.
Mark, how are you doing thisafternoon?
I had this weird glue that wason my can, Do you know?
I was watching like a.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It's probably from the packaging.
Like you know, those come inlike cardboard, oh yeah yeah,
and sometimes that cardboard hasglue on it.
That's happened to me before.
I was watching a video wherethis guy will put certain things
under the microscope to see howclean they are.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
And they're really gross.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And one of the things he did was, if you were to just
get a can from a cool, howgross they are.
And I was pretty disgusted withit.
I had never really thoughtabout it.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Good immunity builder .
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, got to get some immunity.
What's going on this week?
Any like any news for us totackle?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, meta Forbes is reporting that Meta aims to have
all ad buying in-house dictatedby AI.
Yeah, by 2026.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Mostly for what I've read is small businesses.
Small businesses will not haveto have agencies.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That's what they claim.
Yeah, yeah.
They'll be able to do thecreative They'll be able to do
that Anyone who's dealt withmeta long enough knows that
every time you give the reins tometa, trouble.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Trouble follows trouble, trouble ensues yeah
they.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Uh, it's interesting, right, because they're trying
to maximize profit for meta,which you know there are some.
There are some mutual benefitsthere.
Yeah, like to try to get thebest performance and maximize
profits for meta, but not always, which I think is why the
auction system needs coercingyeah, I agree with that.
(02:14):
I think the targeting is prettygood, but the the auction
system needs some coercing yeah,so that'll be very interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I don't think it'll end up happening.
Personally, I think it'll belike PMA.
I do think that it's going tobe great.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I don't think it'll end up happening.
Personally, I think it'll belike PMAX with Google.
Pmax started, it was all A letus optimize everything which
quickly turned into.
Oh, that doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, to now there's a lot more controls within PMAX
and you can kind of do things alittle different, but you still
have to supplement PMAX andGoogle with just regular
campaigns.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So yeah, I think.
I think that it will be helpfulfor those businesses that are
just getting off the ground whoneed to run ads.
I think, so they have no money,yeah does I get people all the
time on TikTok who are messagingme?
Hey, can you help me?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I also what this means for creative.
I don't know it means you'regonna need 10 times more
creative output, sure yeah sodynamic.
Ai created stuff and morevariations with your catalog ads
but we're gonna run to this.
Yeah, I mean, we've talkedabout this I've been saying this
for five years, like eventuallythey're gonna try to take away
(03:24):
control under the guise ofprivacy.
Yeah, which don't, don't buy it.
Anyone if you're, if you'relistening to this meta does not
care about your privacy no sothey don't care about privacy at
all, but they're gonna try todo something like that because
it's going to be advantageousfor them.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Privacy yes.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It's advantageous for them to take away controls
because they're probably missingout on some profit.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, the better efficiency you have
in meta the worst If I'm justlooking at this from like a pure
cynical perspective, it's notreally like this the more
efficient your business is, theless money they make the less
cut they get, yeah, so and andthey might look at it as okay
the more efficient you are, themore money you're going to spend
, and so you can kind of look atit in the same way like but but
(04:16):
the cynical profit margin isyeah I understand technically,
for every purchase that comesthrough at five5, when, if Meta,
could make that $10.
They just doubled.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I mean yeah, depending on what the and then
you times that by however manypeople.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So anyways.
We'll see, we'll see, businessis hard, everyone Business is
hard.
Welcome to Business 101.
Business is hard, yeah, don'tlet anyone.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Business is hard yeah .
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Don't let anyone tell you that it's easy.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So interesting discussion I want to bring up
today that I think will maybedictate the conversation.
So I want to say it was.
How many months ago was it?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was I think I have it right here back in, okay,
november.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So what are we?
November to december, january,february, march, april, may so
we're six months into thisjaguar, the car company which,
if we go back, we both believewere quite adamant that it was
going to wreck them.
Yeah, I mean, and that wasn'tlike holy cow.
Trevor and Mark are brilliant.
(05:29):
I think a lot of people sawthat.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Oh yeah, I'm not saying we're the only ones, For
sure.
But we did say this is just abad move.
Everyone knows it.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I created a big TikTok that I think got some
good off.
The look here really quick.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
We thought it might be a hoax.
Yeah, it almost seemed like itwas so bad that it was actually
a joke.
And then they were gonna unveil, like, the real new brand.
Yes, yes, like of course, we'renot gonna get rid of all of our
yeah it was like an april fools, but in november almost,
(06:07):
because it was so crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Let's see.
Um, yeah, it got like 10x theamount of views on on my
instagram than anything else yes, you know that so and when was
that?
november 18th, so and I probablymade the, I probably made the
tick, tock the video A coupledays later, I'm sure, but Uh,
(06:29):
essentially To so the worldwhoever's Listening, and we'll
have to pull in some clips sothat you can show this.
It was Like the StereotypicalAudience For Jaguar Was like 50
plus Year olds with a householdincome of over three hundred
thousand dollars.
(06:49):
Um, not necessarilyconservative people, um, but uh,
um, luxury, uh, country clubEsque.
That was the Jaguar audience,right, and they essentially went
(07:10):
Like very, um, uh, trying tothink the best way to Say this
without it being political.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
They just went very millennial.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
More Gen Z?
I don't even know if.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I'd say Gen Z.
I mean because technically GenZ is skewing, politically at
least.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
A little more conservative.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Maybe the creative aspect, but it was very new age,
millennial, modern, modern.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Very much tied to the younger audience yeah, you know
liberal yes, yeah, liberal is agreat way to kind of yeah, like
just you know, um veryinteresting, completely
different from the audience thatthey had built for the last 60
years yeah, right, yeah yeah,like, like went from like I'm
(08:05):
trying to get out of like apolitical lingo, because I don't
think it was necessarilypolitical, but it was like you
go from, Jaguar is a elegantluxury brand for rich people,
you know like and it
Speaker 1 (08:21):
you and it was, like, always centered around more of
a masculine identity.
Yeah Right, not feminineidentity at all, very masculine
identity, yep, right.
Like you had the Jaguar, likethe, like the Prowl logo you had
, you know they always were darkinteriors, like the, the, the.
(08:43):
The actual logo was like gold,like that, you know, depends on
like what decade, but it waseither like gold or silver,
black the, the coolest emblem ofany luxury vehicle arguably,
but by very cool like it sticksout.
It's not like plush or yeah,like yeah, and they left it.
Yeah, and it was so.
(09:04):
Anyways, they went from that toteal, like that's all you have
to say is like they went fromblack, gold and silver to teal.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And they got rid of the actual Jaguar for just like
a lowercase j.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I feel like we're not even doing it justice,
so hopefully we get some videos.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Hopefully we get some videos.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Hopefully we get some videos.
It was terrible.
Everybody just blew it uponline.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And terrible, especially because of who their
audience is and will always be.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, it was less about the brand and sure,
visually it wasn't great, butI've seen plenty of visually
non-great brands that crush it.
Okay, yeah, but it was thetotal disregard for an audience.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
And the only audience that's ever bought a Jaguar.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And Jaguar does tend to be on the lower end of the
luxury cars Right, I can'tremember which I don't know if
it's lower end.
I think it's comparable withlike a BMW no, no no, I don't
mean quality, I mean umpopularity oh, yes, yes, yeah
yeah, of all of them, and I wantto say BMW is maybe number one
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I can't remember um yeah, because you do have luxury
is interesting, because youhave luxury and then you have
like ultra yeah like Bentley'ssure.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Like Bentleys, sure.
Or like Beamers, aren'tBentleys?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Right, yeah, like Maseratis.
And then you have like Acurasthat are like high performance,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So Lexus like those are like almost like lower
luxury.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And then Jaguar is in the realm of like yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Mercedes, jaguar, mercedes, porsche, yeah.
And then Jaguar is in the realmof like, yeah, mercedes, jaguar
, Mercedes, porsche, any, yeah,so, so the point is they do this
terrible rebrand.
Everybody predicts it's gonnafail and they like double down
on it hard.
I mean millions and millions ofpeople like especially on
tick-tock, just blew it apartfrom regular, like average Joe's
(11:05):
people who talk about, who justdo like news updates to Jaguar
audiences, to be like I cannotbelieve you're doing this to
people like us who are like, hey, we're marketing experts and
let me give you a take onsomething that was so crazy like
hundreds of millions of viewson this and they double down and
say we don't care.
And they double down and say wedon't care.
(11:26):
And I remember like one of themost epic tweets that somebody
Put out was Elon Musk tweets yousell cars, question-mark.
So no, do you sell cars?
So it was the that their theirslogan was copy nothing.
See that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So it's like copy nothing.
And then it was like what areyou?
And?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
then, elon, immediately do you sell cars
Because the ad was so terrible.
Well, it showed a car at thevery end it looked like Paris
Fashion Week.
Just crazy fashion.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
And so, anyways, the reason why we're bringing this
up is because, six months later,it's been reported that Jaguar
cells have been cut in half andand the rebrand has been a like
an absolute debacle, and theyare now in the hunt.
It's speculated.
(12:21):
I I could probably do a littlebit more research.
We could probably look this upin on in ai, but it's speculated
that they're now looking for awhole new like marketing agency
team, um, so it'll be veryinteresting to see what they're
gonna do.
So why do we bring this up?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well, because it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to take this
conversation a few differentways, but the way I looked at it
and when I saw this article afew days ago and I thought you
know we probably should talkabout this because this is a
mistake.
Now, jaguar's mistake wasworldwide, global disaster,
right.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
At least 90% of the sentiment was this is horrible.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And 50% of your sales and, to be fair, the metric I'm
talking about is over the lasttwo years it's been cut in half,
so it doesn't mean that it wasall from this.
Things have been going awry fora minute for these guys.
They it was just the nail inthe coffin, okay.
(13:33):
So every, every now and then,you have these big brand things
where, like, for example, budLight and the Dylan Mulvaney
thing like that was this,whether you agree with or not,
that was a such a big thing thathurt their brand.
Like.
There's these things where youstart to when you cater to a new
(13:53):
audience.
Oftentimes catering to a newaudience means that you are
leaving behind the old one.
It's not always the case.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, but here, yeah, yes, yes, you're right.
And going back to Jaguar, Ithink what we need to identify
in this case study here is oneof the big mistakes they made is
they were assuming the youngergeneration doesn't grow up.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And they have the money to buy a car like that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
And they have the money to buy.
So you're you're trying toappeal to a younger generation
when your brand is more luxury.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Like if I, if I remember right, like they still
have really good performance,but their performance isn't
quite as great as like aMercedes but, they are more
luxurious, if I, if I rememberright.
Yeah, so, but anyways, likeyou're doing this like luxury
brand, like who's buying luxuryit's usually older people.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And the reason being is because they have the money,
they have the money for it,right, and it's a status symbol.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, like, once you're able to reach a certain
status symbol, a lot of theseolder people who grew up, you
know, seeing those jaguars andtheir neighbors, driveways or
garages and loving them.
Like they grow up, they wantone.
So you're trying to appeal to ayoung generation, but it's like
every generation, when they'relike our parents were in the 70s
(15:17):
, like they, they were dressingin vibrant colors and all this
I'm like that's not how theydress now yeah, I'm looking up
the average household incomeit's like once, once you hit 40,
50, like your style is notquite as vibrant as it was when
you were 20.
So the the idea that you have toappeal to younger generations
now seems like a big mistakebecause, like you said, you're
(15:39):
not like we're thinking of, likeyou're leaving an audience
behind, but like that audienceis still there and it leaving an
audience behind, but like thataudience is still there and it's
still.
People are growing into thataudience totally so it's not
like that audience isdisappearing either, it's just
like why like just just justknow, like, if you're moving
into a new audience, a make surethat audience has the money to
(15:59):
afford you, right, or thatyou're actually going to appeal
to them in some kind of way forthey're going to want to spend
the money with you and is itworth it alienating a prior
audience?
Yeah, because that's always justgoing to be the risk reward
scenario, like, and sometimesthe risk reward is absolutely,
your old audience isn't going toget you to your new destination
(16:20):
, sure, so you, you got tobridge that gap in your branding
strategy, of right, hey, thisaudience is great and we love
them, but, like, there's onlythe.
The total obtainable mark isjust too small, right, so we, we
have to start expanding outsideof that totally.
But the caveat that we want totalk about is most people
(16:40):
listening to this like you'renever going to be in that
situation sure, but but everybrand I mean, at least not in
the next year or two.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
By the way, the average household income for
somebody who's under 30 yearsold is $45,000.
Yeah, so yeah, good luckthere's no possible way that
that car, those cars, are goingto be under $45,000.
No, right, so so, yeah, manyproblems, but okay, so let's,
let's talk about this audiencestuff here, right, so let's say
(17:08):
you're a brand, so we see thisall the time.
A brand hits $5 million and I,we look at, we look at um, okay,
there's this the real statussymbol.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
In 10 years we'll be having a vintage V8 Toyota.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Forerunner.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
No, a V8 like Sequoia or Tundra, just the, you know,
just like a standard V8.
They won't even make themanymore.
Yeah, but those things go for300,000 miles, for sure.
So okay, so, and AI is going tojust wipe out sedans, like
Everyone's just gonna want toself-driving car anyways, yeah,
and people might not even have acar right.
(17:43):
Yeah, there's a good question.
Like the car market mightcompletely collapse.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah 100% like, the only car I'm betting on is Tesla
, because they're gonna have therobo cars.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So so okay.
So In business, as we work withtons of different businesses
there, there are certain,certain thresholds.
There is the zero to a hundredthousand threshold, right, so
there's the six figure threshold, then there's a seven figure
threshold and then there's thehuh then there's mid seven and
then eight yeah, and thenthere's the like how do I get to
(18:17):
like 500 for 5 million?
And then there's the 10 million, and then from 10 million it's
50, 50, it's 200 it's kind oflike the mid yeah eight, mid
eight, nine so, um, everybody, Isee it more on.
The 5 million plus is wherepeople like hit a wall and they
have.
They feel like they start tohave to make big decisions yeah,
(18:40):
but oftentimes, sorry, am Ibutting in.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Are you trying to make a point?
Big decisions, yeah, butoftentimes, sorry, am I butting
in?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Are you trying to make?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
a point.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Uh, you might help make my point if you're feel
free to jump Well.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I like where you're going, because the brand
everyone often will be like it'sthe brand.
We hear it all the time, likedo we need to rebrand or rename
or like go after this audience?
But what, what really ishappening is like you're just
getting outside of your initialstronghold, yeah, and there's
really no reason to adjust.
(19:11):
Like you don't even have tochange ad channels.
Oftentimes you don't have toadjust anything, you just have
to accept a new reality ofgrowing.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
This episode of the Unstoppable Marketer is brought
to you by BFF Creative.
Let's be real H hiringdesigners and video editors can
get super expensive, and that'swhy I'm excited about what BFF
Creative has done.
They've built a subscriptiondesign service that gives you
the feel of an in-house creativeteam, but at a fraction of the
cost, which I'm sure we allcould use right now.
From ad creatives to socialmedia posts, video edits to full
(19:39):
website designs.
Bff gives you unlimited designsand unlimited requests,
starting at just $1,000 a month.
The best part about this theircustom app makes it super easy
to submit projects, givefeedback, review, work and store
all of your creative in oneplace.
As a listener of the podcast,you get 25% off your first two
months with code UNSTOPPABLE25.
(19:59):
That means unlimited creativefor as little as $750 a a month.
Go check them out right now atbffcreativeco.
And here's one thing that Iwant to like.
I want to.
You and me have always tried to.
We don't do it a lot, but wemaybe internally.
We talk about this like brandsdon't always have to grow.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, that's a great point.
It depends on what your goal isas a business owner.
If you don't have to grow.
You don't always have to begrowing 20%.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I think there's this stereotype or there's this
myth that if you're not growingevery year to eventually sell,
then you're going to beunsuccessful.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Here's a good example of that and it's easy get out
of the e-com bubble and think of, like the plumber you know who
owns a plumbing business thatprobably hasn't grown too much
but makes a great life like hasa great lifestyle, earns really
good money.
You know, if they're smart,they're probably investing it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, pass it down to his kids like one day you can
do that in e-com too.
Like you don't have to have thenext unicorn or the next
darling, there is this weirdthing in e-com and listen, we
make a living by people wantingto grow their businesses, so
like but we all, we alwaysadvocate for healthy growth yes,
yes, a hundred percent.
So that, yeah, there's this.
There's just this weird ethosin e-comm that it's like I need
(21:27):
to be growing, like I need to bedoubling my sales every year
and and the only way I am goingto be a successful entrepreneur
is if I sell this company oneday.
But we know plenty of peopleand some of you might even be
listening to this severalbusinesses, just one business,
especially here in utah, I canthink of on, like I can count on
(21:50):
two hands.
I can count 10 businesses.
think of 10 businesses right nowwho at one point were the
darlings of ecom, of ecom, yeahmaking tons of money going super
fast, going from like 1 millionto 10 or 1 to 15 or 20, and
they ended up selling for nextto nothing because they they
(22:13):
tried to grow and get theirbusiness and they got their
business in such a bad spot thatthey weren't growing profitably
in a healthy way and and youcan be making $15 million and
only sell for a million dollars.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, right, yeah, I mean.
Yeah, it depends on your brandequity.
Yeah, equity and revenue, yeah,yeah, so one.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I want to just say like guys one I want to just say
like guys, think long and hardabout what you want your
business to be and what theoutcome of your business should
be.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, and I think we should be cool, be more clear,
like when we say you don't haveto grow like you do.
Technically you always probablyneed to be growing because
there's inflation.
So, like you do need to growfor sure.
And we don't mean you literallydon't have to grow, right.
What we mean is you don't haveto fall into the trap of growing
at the rates that you think youmay need to grow at because of,
oh, this SAS company grew, orthis this other company did this
(23:15):
.
Like you don't have to becomparing.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You just have to set realistic expectations and goals
.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.
So that's number one, like justset the right goals, yes, and
if you can double year over yearand it doesn't hurt your family
life and it doesn't strain youphysically and mentally and
whatever, who's going to turnthat?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
down.
Well, it should strain you, butit shouldn't destroy you.
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Who's going to turn that down?
I'm not going to turn that down.
Right, you wouldn't turn itdown.
So that's number one.
Number two is let's talk aboutaudiences and how important the
people are.
That got you to the point thatyou were.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, the biggest mistake, I think, is people
think again.
The big mistake is you thinkyou have to adjust what you're
doing because growth startsstagnating.
Um, and the easiest thing to dois go.
Well, we just need a new,different kind of audience a new
(24:13):
product that sells to thisaudience or and, and the reality
is just, you know, in marketingterms there's low hanging fruit
and you're just kind of gettingoutside of lower hanging fruit.
Yeah so like so a good, a good,a good example of this is always
going to be, um, there's alwaysgoing to be like kid products.
(24:37):
It's like baby products, or kidproducts, or mom products, or
dad like early mom products,like we'll go early mom products
because, uh, there's not a lotof stuff focused for, like early
dads.
Sure, you know, like diaperbags aren't really advertised to
dads, for example.
Sure, Um, but a lot of times,like, what happens is we see
(25:01):
brands go like well, okay, I'mtargeting these kids, these
babies, so now I need to getinto toddlers, and then I need
to get into kids, and then Ineed to get into teenagers, and
then I need to also sell thingsto the moms.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you can.
I mean you can go down thatroute, but like you really
tapped out all babies, you knowRight.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Like you really tapped out all toddlers.
Like you really tapped out all.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah.
But what you don't understandis that there are some of these
categories you start to thinkabout like oh, let's, let's take
.
Let Like, oh, let's take.
I like to use Cuts as anexample.
Not that Cuts did somethingwrong here, no, let's use
Madewell, because I know thatthat one, like super flopped.
(25:54):
Let's use Athleta, because thisone for sure flopped.
So Athleta was a women'sworkout athleisure company.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
So they naturally let's go do men's too.
And they blew up.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
They rode the coattails of Lulu workout
athleisure company, so theynaturally let's go do men's too.
And they, they blew up.
They, you know, they they rodethe coattails of lulu and they
blew up and got really, reallybig and they were like a more uh
, budget-friendly option maybenot by much, you know, it was
just.
It was just different.
You know, like I would say thatthat athletic got a little bit
(26:23):
more into.
Like you know, lulu was verymuch like leggings, tops, and
athleta got into likesweatshirts and like they.
They almost introduced like alittle bit more to the
athleisure world okay you know,but they, they launched a brand
called hill city, and Hill Citywas a menswear brand, and your
(26:47):
thought is very pure.
The thought here is oh, if wecan do this with women, we
should be able to do this withmen.
That's number one.
And number two is oh, if thesewomen love their stuff for them,
they'll love it for theirhusbands or boyfriends or sons.
Yes, all fair.
Fair like relatively logicalyeah, but probably not.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
They probably didn't do any market research for this
but?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
but the problem is like, when you've done all this
research and when you've testedads and copy and social media
posts and merchandising and allthis stuff for the female
audience, tapping into anaudience where, well, hey, these
10 brands already own thisspace and now you're getting
into an uh, into a space that'salready like you know, you have
(27:35):
to take resources from whatyou're doing well over here.
Right, like you, you werecrushing it On the up and up
with women's, but then you hadto take all this time, resource,
money and put it Over here tosomething that this probably
took you forever to build, butyou don't have the patience To
(27:56):
build this, and so yeah,sometimes it is a patience game,
like do you actually have thepatience to wait it Through, but
the other side is you have,yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Sometimes it is a patience game Like do you
actually have the patience towait it through, but the other
side is you have limitedresources, yeah.
And then on top of that, like,did you really tap out?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
There's no way.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Women.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
And the reason why we know that that's not the case
is like there's a million otherones that have popped up.
Yes, yes, and listen, I knowthat Viore or Lulu was selling
to women and men and they did areally good job at integrating
it Right.
But Lulu didn't win becausethey started selling men
athletic stuff.
Lulu won because they startedselling a pant.
(28:35):
No one else sold Like a daily.
You're wearing them a dailypant and then their athletic
wear took off.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, and I've had these forever.
Yeah, it was the ABC.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But guess who's not talking about Athleta anymore,
like they're not even on thelike.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, I don't hear about them.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
No, like you've got Lulu and Viorey, who dominate
that space 100%, and then you'vegot a few others that are in
there.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And so, going back, we just see people in those
spaces always assume oh, if wewant to grow and grow faster,
then let's expand.
But you're not taking intoconsideration A the effort,
right, and then also what Ithink is the bigger factor, is
the opportunity cost ofallocating time budget resources
(29:30):
and resources into a newendeavor which, generally, you
have not even tapped out yourcurrent endeavor not even close
right right and there's certainbrands that do sometimes there's
more competition and you know.
But you saw, it's just life,you saw.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Apple do this, like five years ago when they started
introducing the S models of thephones, so they were the
cheaper version.
So, like Apple, who is one ofthe biggest.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, I forgot about those.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, one of the biggest companies, because
you're probably not in themarket for it, right, but they
were selling $1,000 phones.
But does a teenager need a$1,000 phone?
Or somebody whose householdincome?
Right, but it didn't feel likethey were going necessarily
fully away from their ethos ofwhat.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Apple is?
No, I don't think they did.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Right.
So yeah, I like it.
So what should you do, right?
Well, look If you're trying togrow and you're feeling stagnant
.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Oftentimes, the answer is just double down.
More often than not, that's myhot take.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, but hold on, let me stop you.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Double down on the things that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Let's hit double down .
Okay, so Mark says double down,and I agree with this, but this
is what happens, and this iswhy I think people are afraid to
double down.
We just experienced this withthe client.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Well, again, when I say double down, it's with the
expectation that your cost peracquisition is always going to
go up.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Exactly that's what I wanted to address, right.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So, hey, my CAC was $50 and all of a sudden,
overnight I hit a wall and nowmy CAC is $90.
Does that mean I'm doingsomething wrong?
Sometimes, sure, sometimes.
But again you have to have OK,like, let's put it this way CAC
is like measuring your BMI forhealth.
Ok, right, like.
Bmi is like an overall decentindicator of like averages, yep,
but it's not an indicator ofquote health no and it's
(31:30):
actually oftentimes a very badindicator.
Sure of how healthy you are,right like your bmi might be
going up whereas your health isgetting much better, but you
might be determined as unhealthy.
Right, yeah, by your bmistandards.
Totally right, like my, mybrother's in the military, and I
know that he was alwaysconsidered obese by the military
(31:53):
bmi, but of course he was, hewasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
He's like a crossfit guy super fit in really good
shape really good.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, but just for his size, he weighed more than
what they claimed.
The BMI claims, right, that'swhat looking at CAC is like.
Right, you should not look atit.
Hey, our CAC is going up, okay,but what is the health of the
overall business?
Yeah yeah, it's not just yourCAC right, it's what is your LTV
(32:24):
doing right.
What is your profitabilitydoing over time?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
What is your AOV?
Right, if your CAC goes up, butyour AOV goes up, right, yeah,
like your ROI, that changeseverything, right.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, so we just think you have to look at your
overall profits and then,obviously, what is the
projection of those profits?
Yeah, based off of thosecohorts coming through.
So, and with the expectationthat look guys like your CAC
will go up period.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
As you grow, your CAC will start going up.
It's just inevitable.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, what your CAC is today, because you're going to
start outpacing.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oftentimes what happens is like the low hanging
fruit.
Yeah, you start out pacing.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Oftentimes what happens is like low-hanging
fruit.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, you start out pacing, like organic reach and
word of mouth, then everythingelse.
So, like, as you outpace all ofthat and like, your ads become
the end-all be-all, which issome people are scared of that,
but that's just.
Every company operates likethat, by the way, like nike.
Any big company operates likethis.
Yeah, right, so your end-allbe-all is going to be hey, ads
(33:25):
are introducing, ads arereintroducing, ads are getting
people back.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And when we say ads, we're not just talking digital,
we're talking everything.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Everything.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know any money you're spending on getting
attention.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, your CAC's going to go up, but that doesn't
mean your business is in a badspot.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, spot, yeah, or that ads are in a bad spot and
if you have an agency or if youlike, because, listen, we see
this with agencies all the timelike, like, we listen, we just
talked about this with cody,with kinship, yeah like we, we
just, we just parted ways withthe client because they couldn't
get over cac thoughts like thatwas a huge, huge.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Well, there was a misalignment yeah, sometimes
there's misalignments with theexpectation of growth yep but
the, the all and the expectationof what cac should or should
not be.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, and and there's a lot of fault on us right to
to maybe not set thoseexpectations a little better.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but sometimes companies are under
pressures to grow at certainrates for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, they might have investors that need X and F and
if they, want to get there.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
You just got to realize you're going to have to
sacrifice things to get acertain growth rate.
It's not just a silver bullet.
You're not just going to comeup with an ad.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, you don't double ad spend and double sales
.
No, that's not how it works.
No, sometimes it does, if youhaven't hit that low hanging
sometimes over time, over alonger time, it still works but,
like you have to in theimmediacy.
Yeah, it oftentimes does notright, so um I I think that
that's a huge lesson.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
So that's number one right is so if you want to grow,
yeah, double down, yep, butalso to answer your original
question, so we don't get toosidetracked with, like the cat
conversation because we just hadthat is, know who your audience
actually is.
And if you're trying to goafter a new audience, run the
(35:21):
risk reward of using marketresearch.
There's tools like you canfigure this out or hire someone
to do this for you, because itwill be worth it.
It's like an insurance policy.
It's very worth it to hire amarket research firm to do this
for you, which is hey, what arethe risk rewards of going after
a new audience and how wouldthat alienate all the people
(35:42):
that I'm I currently have, andis it worth?
it to try that alienate all thepeople that I'm I currently have
and is it worth it to try to?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
alienate them?
Have I even gotten close totapping out?
And what am I?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
doing wrong with the current like?
Am I doing something wrong withthe current audience?
Where I'm, I'm no longerreaching them in the same way I
used to be yeah, no, no, there'shere.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Let me add another situation is let's take your new
mom audience that you had kindof talked about.
Right, the thing about like,let's say, new moms, like how
many, how many babies are born,you know, like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Probably you could probably probably 15 to 20
million a year.
Yeah, in the us and that numberis going down right well, no,
number per couple is going down,but number of babies being born
is not.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So so anyways, a lot of people look at it like 15
million.
That's not a lot you know ifI'm selling whatever to a new
mom but the way you can start todifferentiate yourself and
start to identify the rightaudience is understanding.
This goes back to your marketresearch.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Okay, so babies born is $4 million a year.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay so.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I was way off $4 million a year.
So, that's a lot of babies,though.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
What you can do is you can start to do your market
research and say okay, how isthe new mom changing?
So you're not alienating a mommoms in general by saying, oh, I
need to now go after grandmas,or oh, I need to now go after
grandmas, or oh, I need to nowgo after single ladies Right,
and it is trending down to threeand a half.
Yeah, so you?
You instead can say, okay, whatis the younger generation?
(37:18):
Right, if the average personwhen I started my business five
years ago is 25, having a kid?
Now that you know the 25 to 30year old, what are they having
you know five years ago?
Or what are they interested in,you can start doing some, some
research to say, okay, hey, theGen Z moms are now the people
having babies, not millennialsas much.
So how do I create this productto tailor to her?
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Like cause, my maybe my image is the millennial yeah.
So you're always getting thesepeople aging in and out.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah.
So that's one way you can do it.
I think another way and one wayI want to not challenge, but
maybe move the discussion as wesay hey, how do you grow when
you're starting to tap out?
What you actually could do isyou could actually double down
even harder on your audience.
So you say double down.
You kind of talked from a spendperspective.
I'm talking from a like candouble down even Harder into a
(38:12):
Segmented part of an audience.
So if we're talking about Can Ijust?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
I just want to like Emphasize something here If you
take the baby market At 4million a year, let's just even
sandbag it At 3.7 million.
The baby market at 4 million ayear, let's just even sandbag it
at 3.7 million.
Right, let's say a realisticexpectation is to capture.
(38:42):
Let's just say, capture 10% ofthat market a year.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
That'd be 375,000.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Let's say your AOV is 100.
That's a $37 million business.
Yeah, Like that's like a.
I'm not saying it's easy to getcapture 10% of market share,
but even 5%.
Right, You're sitting at a 17,$18 million business a year,
(39:13):
which people would go nuts formost.
So again, like that's what I'msaying is like a lot of people
will hit these thresholds andit's like yeah it's like okay,
yeah, like once you starthitting like five to 10% of,
like, total market share, thenlike maybe your luxury so like
that's probably like five to 10%of babies are going to be born
in higher income brackets.
Yeah, so if you're luxury,maybe that is kind of where you
do it, but like no one evercares to look at what their
(39:37):
actual market is.
Yeah, like people just make agut assumptions because things
might be getting harder.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, what I was going to say is do you, let's?
Let's?
Just since we're on the momtopic, right, if you're starting
to see that your sale, likeselling, is, you know, dipping.
You could actually dip harderinto the mom niche, right, and
maybe you're going after thebreastfeeding mom, right,
because there's a lot ofdiscussion around breastfeeding
versus bottle feeding, versusboth.
(40:10):
You know you could maybe doubledown to the conservative mom
and that could actually helpscale and grow your business.
Or the more liberal mom or thewhatever right Like.
There's these things that youcan do that niches down even
harder.
That could actually make youmore money, even though you're
cutting out your totaladdressable market.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Does that make sense?
Totally Now, eventually, thatdoesn't get you to.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Again, you have to look at what your actual
obtainable markets are Like.
Most people don't even knowwhat their their true market
size is Like.
If you look at the baby marketlike, that's kind of like that's
just newborns though.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Like that's kind of like that's just newborns,
though.
Yeah, so if you're looking attoddlers though, like that's
kind of a two year gap, sothat's more of like an 8 million
Sure Market range.
So like, can you capture 2% ofthat?
Yeah, 3%.
Yeah, so yeah, the point of thediscussion is just like and is
it worth it to alienate yourpast audience to get you to a
(41:09):
bigger goal?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah Is just like, and is it worth it to alienate
your past audience to get you toa bigger goal?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, and oftentimes the answer is Oftentimes it's
not gonna be worth it.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, I mean, look what's you probably don't even
have 1%.
Yeah, half a percent.
Like does the market share does?
Speaker 1 (41:27):
the Jaguar brand Come back from this.
If they're smart, they know how.
It's gonna be really easy.
You just make something reallybadass and that's all you have
to do.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I think that Budweiser or not Budweiser Bud.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Light seems to have.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
They totally came back.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Seems to have come back.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
They got Post Malone and Well, they even got Kid Rock
that.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Shane Gillis guy.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Kid Rock.
Kid Rock, who was like Againsthim.
Got Kid Rock, that Shane Gillisguy yeah, well, they even got
Kid Rock who was like againsthim.
Yeah, he was like the guy whowas like oh my, I cannot believe
because he's an outspokenconservative yeah, you know,
especially around woke stuff.
And now even he's full team BudLight, same with same with, uh,
ufc, dana White Bud Light isnow a sponsor.
(42:08):
Oh, the UFC like they.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
So I wonder if that boycott I mean it impacted them.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
But I don't know if anyone remembers anymore yeah,
lost in billions, but I have notheard anybody.
You know, we're probably thelike.
We probably just opened upfresh wounds by me saying that
you know.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I don't think anyone remembers so like.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
But at the time they had lost like six billion
dollars.
Yeah, like overnight.
It was like a six billiondollar dip in there, like in
stock or whatever.
It was crazy.
It was crazy numbers, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
So well, I think that's good.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, but.
But there is a way to reverseit, which is People are
forgiving it's if you do itquick, yeah, if it's elongated
and it's years of it.
People are forgiving If you doit quick, yeah, if it's
elongated and it's years of itRight.
That's why I'm very curiousabout Jaguar.
We're six months deep.
They're still doubling down.
Beer costs a lot less to makethan a car, so that could be
(43:06):
like they could be.
You know, they claimed it was a2026.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, but you're talking like a brand.
You can change the brand andkeep the cars like their cars
might still be really coollooking and they do look kind of
cool Like they're veryfuturistic.
It's just toss the Flimsy,colorful, youthful thing.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Because those aren't the people buying your cars.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, so figure out what you want your goals to be.
I think that's the number one.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
A whimsical, more whimsical.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Do you need to be growing 100% year over year?
Maybe you took on someinvestment and so, yes, you do.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, and if you do just set the right expectations.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Then understand and actually look at.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
And again, if you're going to take on investment,
look at your actual obtainablemarket and see if it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Like can you actually grow and can you actually
capture X percent of the share?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, and just because your CPAs go up doesn't
mean your media buyer in houseis doing something wrong or
agency is doing something wrong.
It can, it can, but it couldjust mean that broken outside of
the low hanging fruit and yougot to start going hard.
So look at profitability.
Look at, and not justprofitability now, but
projection profitability too,which is huge.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
So I got to go.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I like it.
Anything else you want to add?
Speaker 1 (44:24):
No, I gotta go Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
All right, thanks everybody.
We'll see you guys next week.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unstoppable marketer
podcast.
Okay, all right, thankseverybody.
We'll see you guys next week.
Or give me any direct feedback.
(44:47):
Please go, follow me and get intouch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
So it was like copy nothing.
And then I was like what areyou?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And then Elon, immediately, do you sell cars?
Question mark, because the adwas so terrible.
Jaguar sales have been cut inhalf and the rebrand has been
like an absolute debacle.
It doesn't mean that it was allfrom this.
Things have been going awry fora minute.
It was just the nail in thecoffin.
Yo, what's going on everybody?
(00:23):
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me, as always, is MarkGoldheart.
Mark, how are you doing thisafternoon?
I had this weird glue that wason my can, Do you know?
I was watching like a.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It's probably from the packaging.
Like you know, those come inlike cardboard, oh yeah yeah,
and sometimes that cardboard hasglue on it.
That's happened to me before.
I was watching a video wherethis guy will put certain things
under the microscope to see howclean they are.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
And they're really gross.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And one of the things he did was, if you were to just
get a can from a cool, howgross they are.
And I was pretty disgusted withit.
I had never really thoughtabout it.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Good immunity builder .
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, got to get some immunity.
What's going on this week?
Any like any news for us totackle?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, meta Forbes is reporting that Meta aims to have
all ad buying in-house dictatedby AI.
Yeah, by 2026.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Mostly for what I've read is small businesses.
Small businesses will not haveto have agencies.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
That's what they claim.
Yeah, yeah.
They'll be able to do thecreative They'll be able to do
that Anyone who's dealt withmeta long enough knows that
every time you give the reins tometa, trouble.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Trouble follows trouble, trouble ensues yeah
they.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Uh, it's interesting, right, because they're trying
to maximize profit for meta,which you know there are some.
There are some mutual benefitsthere.
Yeah, like to try to get thebest performance and maximize
profits for meta, but not always, which I think is why the
auction system needs coercingyeah, I agree with that.
(02:14):
I think the targeting is prettygood, but the the auction
system needs some coercing yeah,so that'll be very interesting.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I don't think it'll end up happening.
Personally, I think it'll belike PMA.
I do think that it's going tobe great.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I don't think it'll end up happening.
Personally, I think it'll belike PMAX with Google.
Pmax started, it was all A letus optimize everything which
quickly turned into.
Oh, that doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, to now there's a lot more controls within PMAX
and you can kind of do things alittle different, but you still
have to supplement PMAX andGoogle with just regular
campaigns.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So yeah, I think.
I think that it will be helpfulfor those businesses that are
just getting off the ground whoneed to run ads.
I think, so they have no money,yeah does I get people all the
time on TikTok who are messagingme?
Hey, can you help me?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I also what this means for creative.
I don't know it means you'regonna need 10 times more
creative output, sure yeah sodynamic.
Ai created stuff and morevariations with your catalog ads
but we're gonna run to this.
Yeah, I mean, we've talkedabout this I've been saying this
for five years, like eventuallythey're gonna try to take away
(03:24):
control under the guise ofprivacy.
Yeah, which don't, don't buy it.
Anyone if you're, if you'relistening to this meta does not
care about your privacy no sothey don't care about privacy at
all, but they're gonna try todo something like that because
it's going to be advantageousfor them.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Privacy yes.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It's advantageous for them to take away controls
because they're probably missingout on some profit.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, the better efficiency you have
in meta the worst If I'm justlooking at this from like a pure
cynical perspective, it's notreally like this the more
efficient your business is, theless money they make the less
cut they get, yeah, so and andthey might look at it as okay
the more efficient you are, themore money you're going to spend
, and so you can kind of look atit in the same way like but but
(04:16):
the cynical profit margin isyeah I understand technically,
for every purchase that comesthrough at five5, when, if Meta,
could make that $10.
They just doubled.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
That's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I mean yeah, depending on what the and then
you times that by however manypeople.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So anyways.
We'll see, we'll see, businessis hard, everyone Business is
hard.
Welcome to Business 101.
Business is hard, yeah, don'tlet anyone.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Business is hard yeah .
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Don't let anyone tell you that it's easy.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So interesting discussion I want to bring up
today that I think will maybedictate the conversation.
So I want to say it was.
How many months ago was it?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was I think I have it right here back in, okay,
november.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So what are we?
November to december, january,february, march, april, may so
we're six months into thisjaguar, the car company which,
if we go back, we both believewere quite adamant that it was
going to wreck them.
Yeah, I mean, and that wasn'tlike holy cow.
Trevor and Mark are brilliant.
(05:29):
I think a lot of people sawthat.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Oh yeah, I'm not saying we're the only ones, For
sure.
But we did say this is just abad move.
Everyone knows it.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I created a big TikTok that I think got some
good off.
The look here really quick.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
We thought it might be a hoax.
Yeah, it almost seemed like itwas so bad that it was actually
a joke.
And then they were gonna unveil, like, the real new brand.
Yes, yes, like of course, we'renot gonna get rid of all of our
yeah it was like an april fools, but in november almost,
(06:07):
because it was so crazy.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Let's see.
Um, yeah, it got like 10x theamount of views on on my
instagram than anything else yes, you know that so and when was
that?
november 18th, so and I probablymade the, I probably made the
tick, tock the video A coupledays later, I'm sure, but Uh,
(06:29):
essentially To so the worldwhoever's Listening, and we'll
have to pull in some clips sothat you can show this.
It was Like the StereotypicalAudience For Jaguar Was like 50
plus Year olds with a householdincome of over three hundred
thousand dollars.
(06:49):
Um, not necessarilyconservative people, um, but uh,
um, luxury, uh, country clubEsque.
That was the Jaguar audience,right, and they essentially went
(07:10):
Like very, um, uh, trying tothink the best way to Say this
without it being political.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
They just went very millennial.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
More Gen Z?
I don't even know if.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I'd say Gen Z.
I mean because technically GenZ is skewing, politically at
least.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
A little more conservative.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Maybe the creative aspect, but it was very new age,
millennial, modern, modern.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Very much tied to the younger audience yeah, you know
liberal yes, yeah, liberal is agreat way to kind of yeah, like
just you know, um veryinteresting, completely
different from the audience thatthey had built for the last 60
years yeah, right, yeah yeah,like, like went from like I'm
(08:05):
trying to get out of like apolitical lingo, because I don't
think it was necessarilypolitical, but it was like you
go from, Jaguar is a elegantluxury brand for rich people,
you know like and it
Speaker 1 (08:21):
you and it was, like, always centered around more of
a masculine identity.
Yeah Right, not feminineidentity at all, very masculine
identity, yep, right.
Like you had the Jaguar, likethe, like the Prowl logo you had
, you know they always were darkinteriors, like the, the, the.
(08:43):
The actual logo was like gold,like that, you know, depends on
like what decade, but it waseither like gold or silver,
black the, the coolest emblem ofany luxury vehicle arguably,
but by very cool like it sticksout.
It's not like plush or yeah,like yeah, and they left it.
Yeah, and it was so.
(09:04):
Anyways, they went from that toteal, like that's all you have
to say is like they went fromblack, gold and silver to teal.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And they got rid of the actual Jaguar for just like
a lowercase j.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I feel like we're not even doing it justice,
so hopefully we get some videos.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Hopefully we get some videos.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Hopefully we get some videos.
It was terrible.
Everybody just blew it uponline.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And terrible, especially because of who their
audience is and will always be.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, it was less about the brand and sure,
visually it wasn't great, butI've seen plenty of visually
non-great brands that crush it.
Okay, yeah, but it was thetotal disregard for an audience.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
And the only audience that's ever bought a Jaguar.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And Jaguar does tend to be on the lower end of the
luxury cars Right, I can'tremember which I don't know if
it's lower end.
I think it's comparable withlike a BMW no, no no, I don't
mean quality, I mean umpopularity oh, yes, yes, yeah
yeah, of all of them, and I wantto say BMW is maybe number one
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I can't remember um yeah, because you do have luxury
is interesting, because youhave luxury and then you have
like ultra yeah like Bentley'ssure.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Like Bentleys, sure.
Or like Beamers, aren'tBentleys?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Right, yeah, like Maseratis.
And then you have like Acurasthat are like high performance,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So Lexus like those are like almost like lower
luxury.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And then Jaguar is in the realm of like yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Mercedes, jaguar, mercedes, porsche, yeah.
And then Jaguar is in the realmof like, yeah, mercedes, jaguar
, Mercedes, porsche, any, yeah,so, so the point is they do this
terrible rebrand.
Everybody predicts it's gonnafail and they like double down
on it hard.
I mean millions and millions ofpeople like especially on
tick-tock, just blew it apartfrom regular, like average Joe's
(11:05):
people who talk about, who justdo like news updates to Jaguar
audiences, to be like I cannotbelieve you're doing this to
people like us who are like, hey, we're marketing experts and
let me give you a take onsomething that was so crazy like
hundreds of millions of viewson this and they double down and
say we don't care.
And they double down and say wedon't care.
(11:26):
And I remember like one of themost epic tweets that somebody
Put out was Elon Musk tweets yousell cars, question-mark.
So no, do you sell cars?
So it was the that their theirslogan was copy nothing.
See that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So it's like copy nothing.
And then it was like what areyou?
And?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
then, elon, immediately do you sell cars
Because the ad was so terrible.
Well, it showed a car at thevery end it looked like Paris
Fashion Week.
Just crazy fashion.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
And so, anyways, the reason why we're bringing this
up is because, six months later,it's been reported that Jaguar
cells have been cut in half andand the rebrand has been a like
an absolute debacle, and theyare now in the hunt.
It's speculated.
(12:21):
I I could probably do a littlebit more research.
We could probably look this upin on in ai, but it's speculated
that they're now looking for awhole new like marketing agency
team, um, so it'll be veryinteresting to see what they're
gonna do.
So why do we bring this up?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well, because it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to take this
conversation a few differentways, but the way I looked at it
and when I saw this article afew days ago and I thought you
know we probably should talkabout this because this is a
mistake.
Now, jaguar's mistake wasworldwide, global disaster,
right.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
At least 90% of the sentiment was this is horrible.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And 50% of your sales and, to be fair, the metric I'm
talking about is over the lasttwo years it's been cut in half,
so it doesn't mean that it wasall from this.
Things have been going awry fora minute for these guys.
They it was just the nail inthe coffin, okay.
(13:33):
So every, every now and then,you have these big brand things
where, like, for example, budLight and the Dylan Mulvaney
thing like that was this,whether you agree with or not,
that was a such a big thing thathurt their brand.
Like.
There's these things where youstart to when you cater to a new
(13:53):
audience.
Oftentimes catering to a newaudience means that you are
leaving behind the old one.
It's not always the case.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, but here, yeah, yes, yes, you're right.
And going back to Jaguar, Ithink what we need to identify
in this case study here is oneof the big mistakes they made is
they were assuming the youngergeneration doesn't grow up.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And they have the money to buy a car like that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
And they have the money to buy.
So you're you're trying toappeal to a younger generation
when your brand is more luxury.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Like if I, if I remember right, like they still
have really good performance,but their performance isn't
quite as great as like aMercedes but, they are more
luxurious, if I, if I rememberright.
Yeah, so, but anyways, likeyou're doing this like luxury
brand, like who's buying luxuryit's usually older people.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And the reason being is because they have the money,
they have the money for it,right, and it's a status symbol.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, like, once you're able to reach a certain
status symbol, a lot of theseolder people who grew up, you
know, seeing those jaguars andtheir neighbors, driveways or
garages and loving them.
Like they grow up, they wantone.
So you're trying to appeal to ayoung generation, but it's like
every generation, when they'relike our parents were in the 70s
(15:17):
, like they, they were dressingin vibrant colors and all this
I'm like that's not how theydress now yeah, I'm looking up
the average household incomeit's like once, once you hit 40,
50, like your style is notquite as vibrant as it was when
you were 20.
So the the idea that you have toappeal to younger generations
now seems like a big mistakebecause, like you said, you're
(15:39):
not like we're thinking of, likeyou're leaving an audience
behind, but like that audienceis still there and it leaving an
audience behind, but like thataudience is still there and it's
still.
People are growing into thataudience totally so it's not
like that audience isdisappearing either, it's just
like why like just just justknow, like, if you're moving
into a new audience, a make surethat audience has the money to
(15:59):
afford you, right, or thatyou're actually going to appeal
to them in some kind of way forthey're going to want to spend
the money with you and is itworth it alienating a prior
audience?
Yeah, because that's always justgoing to be the risk reward
scenario, like, and sometimesthe risk reward is absolutely,
your old audience isn't going toget you to your new destination
(16:20):
, sure, so you, you got tobridge that gap in your branding
strategy, of right, hey, thisaudience is great and we love
them, but, like, there's onlythe.
The total obtainable mark isjust too small, right, so we, we
have to start expanding outsideof that totally.
But the caveat that we want totalk about is most people
(16:40):
listening to this like you'renever going to be in that
situation sure, but but everybrand I mean, at least not in
the next year or two.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
By the way, the average household income for
somebody who's under 30 yearsold is $45,000.
Yeah, so yeah, good luckthere's no possible way that
that car, those cars, are goingto be under $45,000.
No, right, so so, yeah, manyproblems, but okay, so let's,
let's talk about this audiencestuff here, right, so let's say
(17:08):
you're a brand, so we see thisall the time.
A brand hits $5 million and I,we look at, we look at um, okay,
there's this the real statussymbol.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
In 10 years we'll be having a vintage V8 Toyota.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Forerunner.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
No, a V8 like Sequoia or Tundra, just the, you know,
just like a standard V8.
They won't even make themanymore.
Yeah, but those things go for300,000 miles, for sure.
So okay, so, and AI is going tojust wipe out sedans, like
Everyone's just gonna want toself-driving car anyways, yeah,
and people might not even have acar right.
(17:43):
Yeah, there's a good question.
Like the car market mightcompletely collapse.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah 100% like, the only car I'm betting on is Tesla
, because they're gonna have therobo cars.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So so okay.
So In business, as we work withtons of different businesses
there, there are certain,certain thresholds.
There is the zero to a hundredthousand threshold, right, so
there's the six figure threshold, then there's a seven figure
threshold and then there's thehuh then there's mid seven and
then eight yeah, and thenthere's the like how do I get to
(18:17):
like 500 for 5 million?
And then there's the 10 million, and then from 10 million it's
50, 50, it's 200 it's kind oflike the mid yeah eight, mid
eight, nine so, um, everybody, Isee it more on.
The 5 million plus is wherepeople like hit a wall and they
have.
They feel like they start tohave to make big decisions yeah,
(18:40):
but oftentimes, sorry, am Ibutting in.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Are you trying to make a point?
Big decisions, yeah, butoftentimes, sorry, am I butting
in?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Are you trying to make?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
a point.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Uh, you might help make my point if you're feel
free to jump Well.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I like where you're going, because the brand
everyone often will be like it'sthe brand.
We hear it all the time, likedo we need to rebrand or rename
or like go after this audience?
But what, what really ishappening is like you're just
getting outside of your initialstronghold, yeah, and there's
really no reason to adjust.
(19:11):
Like you don't even have tochange ad channels.
Oftentimes you don't have toadjust anything, you just have
to accept a new reality ofgrowing.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
This episode of the Unstoppable Marketer is brought
to you by BFF Creative.
Let's be real H hiringdesigners and video editors can
get super expensive, and that'swhy I'm excited about what BFF
Creative has done.
They've built a subscriptiondesign service that gives you
the feel of an in-house creativeteam, but at a fraction of the
cost, which I'm sure we allcould use right now.
From ad creatives to socialmedia posts, video edits to full
(19:39):
website designs.
Bff gives you unlimited designsand unlimited requests,
starting at just $1,000 a month.
The best part about this theircustom app makes it super easy
to submit projects, givefeedback, review, work and store
all of your creative in oneplace.
As a listener of the podcast,you get 25% off your first two
months with code UNSTOPPABLE25.
(19:59):
That means unlimited creativefor as little as $750 a a month.
Go check them out right now atbffcreativeco.
And here's one thing that Iwant to like.
I want to.
You and me have always tried to.
We don't do it a lot, but wemaybe internally.
We talk about this like brandsdon't always have to grow.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, that's a great point.
It depends on what your goal isas a business owner.
If you don't have to grow.
You don't always have to begrowing 20%.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I think there's this stereotype or there's this
myth that if you're not growingevery year to eventually sell,
then you're going to beunsuccessful.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Here's a good example of that and it's easy get out
of the e-com bubble and think of, like the plumber you know who
owns a plumbing business thatprobably hasn't grown too much
but makes a great life like hasa great lifestyle, earns really
good money.
You know, if they're smart,they're probably investing it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, pass it down to his kids like one day you can
do that in e-com too.
Like you don't have to have thenext unicorn or the next
darling, there is this weirdthing in e-com and listen, we
make a living by people wantingto grow their businesses, so
like but we all, we alwaysadvocate for healthy growth yes,
yes, a hundred percent.
So that, yeah, there's this.
There's just this weird ethosin e-comm that it's like I need
(21:27):
to be growing, like I need to bedoubling my sales every year
and and the only way I am goingto be a successful entrepreneur
is if I sell this company oneday.
But we know plenty of peopleand some of you might even be
listening to this severalbusinesses, just one business,
especially here in utah, I canthink of on, like I can count on
(21:50):
two hands.
I can count 10 businesses.
think of 10 businesses right nowwho at one point were the
darlings of ecom, of ecom, yeahmaking tons of money going super
fast, going from like 1 millionto 10 or 1 to 15 or 20, and
they ended up selling for nextto nothing because they they
(22:13):
tried to grow and get theirbusiness and they got their
business in such a bad spot thatthey weren't growing profitably
in a healthy way and and youcan be making $15 million and
only sell for a million dollars.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, right, yeah, I mean.
Yeah, it depends on your brandequity.
Yeah, equity and revenue, yeah,yeah, so one.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I want to just say like guys one I want to just say
like guys, think long and hardabout what you want your
business to be and what theoutcome of your business should
be.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, and I think we should be cool, be more clear,
like when we say you don't haveto grow like you do.
Technically you always probablyneed to be growing because
there's inflation.
So, like you do need to growfor sure.
And we don't mean you literallydon't have to grow, right.
What we mean is you don't haveto fall into the trap of growing
at the rates that you think youmay need to grow at because of,
oh, this SAS company grew, orthis this other company did this
(23:15):
.
Like you don't have to becomparing.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You just have to set realistic expectations and goals
.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.
So that's number one, like justset the right goals, yes, and
if you can double year over yearand it doesn't hurt your family
life and it doesn't strain youphysically and mentally and
whatever, who's going to turnthat?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
down.
Well, it should strain you, butit shouldn't destroy you.
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Who's going to turn that down?
I'm not going to turn that down.
Right, you wouldn't turn itdown.
So that's number one.
Number two is let's talk aboutaudiences and how important the
people are.
That got you to the point thatyou were.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, the biggest mistake, I think, is people
think again.
The big mistake is you thinkyou have to adjust what you're
doing because growth startsstagnating.
Um, and the easiest thing to dois go.
Well, we just need a new,different kind of audience a new
(24:13):
product that sells to thisaudience or and, and the reality
is just, you know, in marketingterms there's low hanging fruit
and you're just kind of gettingoutside of lower hanging fruit.
Yeah so like so a good, a good,a good example of this is always
going to be, um, there's alwaysgoing to be like kid products.
(24:37):
It's like baby products, or kidproducts, or mom products, or
dad like early mom products,like we'll go early mom products
because, uh, there's not a lotof stuff focused for, like early
dads.
Sure, you know, like diaperbags aren't really advertised to
dads, for example.
Sure, Um, but a lot of times,like, what happens is we see
(25:01):
brands go like well, okay, I'mtargeting these kids, these
babies, so now I need to getinto toddlers, and then I need
to get into kids, and then Ineed to get into teenagers, and
then I need to also sell thingsto the moms.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you can.
I mean you can go down thatroute, but like you really
tapped out all babies, you knowRight.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Like you really tapped out all toddlers.
Like you really tapped out all.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah.
But what you don't understandis that there are some of these
categories you start to thinkabout like oh, let's, let's take
.
Let Like, oh, let's take.
I like to use Cuts as anexample.
Not that Cuts did somethingwrong here, no, let's use
Madewell, because I know thatthat one, like super flopped.
(25:54):
Let's use Athleta, because thisone for sure flopped.
So Athleta was a women'sworkout athleisure company.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
So they naturally let's go do men's too.
And they blew up.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
They rode the coattails of Lulu workout
athleisure company, so theynaturally let's go do men's too.
And they, they blew up.
They, you know, they they rodethe coattails of lulu and they
blew up and got really, reallybig and they were like a more uh
, budget-friendly option maybenot by much, you know, it was
just.
It was just different.
You know, like I would say thatthat athletic got a little bit
(26:23):
more into.
Like you know, lulu was verymuch like leggings, tops, and
athleta got into likesweatshirts and like they.
They almost introduced like alittle bit more to the
athleisure world okay you know,but they, they launched a brand
called hill city, and Hill Citywas a menswear brand, and your
(26:47):
thought is very pure.
The thought here is oh, if wecan do this with women, we
should be able to do this withmen.
That's number one.
And number two is oh, if thesewomen love their stuff for them,
they'll love it for theirhusbands or boyfriends or sons.
Yes, all fair.
Fair like relatively logicalyeah, but probably not.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
They probably didn't do any market research for this
but?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
but the problem is like, when you've done all this
research and when you've testedads and copy and social media
posts and merchandising and allthis stuff for the female
audience, tapping into anaudience where, well, hey, these
10 brands already own thisspace and now you're getting
into an uh, into a space that'salready like you know, you have
(27:35):
to take resources from whatyou're doing well over here.
Right, like you, you werecrushing it On the up and up
with women's, but then you hadto take all this time, resource,
money and put it Over here tosomething that this probably
took you forever to build, butyou don't have the patience To
(27:56):
build this, and so yeah,sometimes it is a patience game,
like do you actually have thepatience to wait it Through, but
the other side is you have,yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Sometimes it is a patience game Like do you
actually have the patience towait it through, but the other
side is you have limitedresources, yeah.
And then on top of that, like,did you really tap out?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
There's no way.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Women.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
And the reason why we know that that's not the case
is like there's a million otherones that have popped up.
Yes, yes, and listen, I knowthat Viore or Lulu was selling
to women and men and they did areally good job at integrating
it Right.
But Lulu didn't win becausethey started selling men
athletic stuff.
Lulu won because they startedselling a pant.
(28:35):
No one else sold Like a daily.
You're wearing them a dailypant and then their athletic
wear took off.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, and I've had these forever.
Yeah, it was the ABC.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But guess who's not talking about Athleta anymore,
like they're not even on thelike.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, I don't hear about them.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
No, like you've got Lulu and Viorey, who dominate
that space 100%, and then you'vegot a few others that are in
there.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And so, going back, we just see people in those
spaces always assume oh, if wewant to grow and grow faster,
then let's expand.
But you're not taking intoconsideration A the effort,
right, and then also what Ithink is the bigger factor, is
the opportunity cost ofallocating time budget resources
(29:30):
and resources into a newendeavor which, generally, you
have not even tapped out yourcurrent endeavor not even close
right right and there's certainbrands that do sometimes there's
more competition and you know.
But you saw, it's just life,you saw.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Apple do this, like five years ago when they started
introducing the S models of thephones, so they were the
cheaper version.
So, like Apple, who is one ofthe biggest.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, I forgot about those.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, one of the biggest companies, because
you're probably not in themarket for it, right, but they
were selling $1,000 phones.
But does a teenager need a$1,000 phone?
Or somebody whose householdincome?
Right, but it didn't feel likethey were going necessarily
fully away from their ethos ofwhat.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Apple is?
No, I don't think they did.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Right.
So yeah, I like it.
So what should you do, right?
Well, look If you're trying togrow and you're feeling stagnant
.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Oftentimes, the answer is just double down.
More often than not, that's myhot take.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, but hold on, let me stop you.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Double down on the things that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Let's hit double down .
Okay, so Mark says double down,and I agree with this, but this
is what happens, and this iswhy I think people are afraid to
double down.
We just experienced this withthe client.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Well, again, when I say double down, it's with the
expectation that your cost peracquisition is always going to
go up.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Exactly that's what I wanted to address, right.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So, hey, my CAC was $50 and all of a sudden,
overnight I hit a wall and nowmy CAC is $90.
Does that mean I'm doingsomething wrong?
Sometimes, sure, sometimes.
But again you have to have OK,like, let's put it this way CAC
is like measuring your BMI forhealth.
Ok, right, like.
Bmi is like an overall decentindicator of like averages, yep,
but it's not an indicator ofquote health no and it's
(31:30):
actually oftentimes a very badindicator.
Sure of how healthy you are,right like your bmi might be
going up whereas your health isgetting much better, but you
might be determined as unhealthy.
Right, yeah, by your bmistandards.
Totally right, like my, mybrother's in the military, and I
know that he was alwaysconsidered obese by the military
(31:53):
bmi, but of course he was, hewasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
He's like a crossfit guy super fit in really good
shape really good.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, but just for his size, he weighed more than
what they claimed.
The BMI claims, right, that'swhat looking at CAC is like.
Right, you should not look atit.
Hey, our CAC is going up, okay,but what is the health of the
overall business?
Yeah yeah, it's not just yourCAC right, it's what is your LTV
(32:24):
doing right.
What is your profitabilitydoing over time?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
What is your AOV?
Right, if your CAC goes up, butyour AOV goes up, right, yeah,
like your ROI, that changeseverything, right.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, so we just think you have to look at your
overall profits and then,obviously, what is the
projection of those profits?
Yeah, based off of thosecohorts coming through.
So, and with the expectationthat look guys like your CAC
will go up period.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
As you grow, your CAC will start going up.
It's just inevitable.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, what your CAC is today, because you're going to
start outpacing.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oftentimes what happens is like the low hanging
fruit.
Yeah, you start out pacing.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Oftentimes what happens is like low-hanging
fruit.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, you start out pacing, like organic reach and
word of mouth, then everythingelse.
So, like, as you outpace all ofthat and like, your ads become
the end-all be-all, which issome people are scared of that,
but that's just.
Every company operates likethat, by the way, like nike.
Any big company operates likethis.
Yeah, right, so your end-allbe-all is going to be hey, ads
(33:25):
are introducing, ads arereintroducing, ads are getting
people back.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And when we say ads, we're not just talking digital,
we're talking everything.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Everything.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
You know any money you're spending on getting
attention.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, your CAC's going to go up, but that doesn't
mean your business is in a badspot.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, spot, yeah, or that ads are in a bad spot and
if you have an agency or if youlike, because, listen, we see
this with agencies all the timelike, like, we listen, we just
talked about this with cody,with kinship, yeah like we, we
just, we just parted ways withthe client because they couldn't
get over cac thoughts like thatwas a huge, huge.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Well, there was a misalignment yeah, sometimes
there's misalignments with theexpectation of growth yep but
the, the all and the expectationof what cac should or should
not be.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, and and there's a lot of fault on us right to
to maybe not set thoseexpectations a little better.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but sometimes companies are under
pressures to grow at certainrates for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, they might have investors that need X and F and
if they, want to get there.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
You just got to realize you're going to have to
sacrifice things to get acertain growth rate.
It's not just a silver bullet.
You're not just going to comeup with an ad.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, you don't double ad spend and double sales
.
No, that's not how it works.
No, sometimes it does, if youhaven't hit that low hanging
sometimes over time, over alonger time, it still works but,
like you have to in theimmediacy.
Yeah, it oftentimes does notright, so um I I think that
that's a huge lesson.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
So that's number one right is so if you want to grow,
yeah, double down, yep, butalso to answer your original
question, so we don't get toosidetracked with, like the cat
conversation because we just hadthat is, know who your audience
actually is.
And if you're trying to goafter a new audience, run the
(35:21):
risk reward of using marketresearch.
There's tools like you canfigure this out or hire someone
to do this for you, because itwill be worth it.
It's like an insurance policy.
It's very worth it to hire amarket research firm to do this
for you, which is hey, what arethe risk rewards of going after
a new audience and how wouldthat alienate all the people
(35:42):
that I'm I currently have, andis it worth?
it to try that alienate all thepeople that I'm I currently have
and is it worth it to try to?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
alienate them?
Have I even gotten close totapping out?
And what am I?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
doing wrong with the current like?
Am I doing something wrong withthe current audience?
Where I'm, I'm no longerreaching them in the same way I
used to be yeah, no, no, there'shere.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Let me add another situation is let's take your new
mom audience that you had kindof talked about.
Right, the thing about like,let's say, new moms, like how
many, how many babies are born,you know, like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Probably you could probably probably 15 to 20
million a year.
Yeah, in the us and that numberis going down right well, no,
number per couple is going down,but number of babies being born
is not.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So so anyways, a lot of people look at it like 15
million.
That's not a lot you know ifI'm selling whatever to a new
mom but the way you can start todifferentiate yourself and
start to identify the rightaudience is understanding.
This goes back to your marketresearch.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Okay, so babies born is $4 million a year.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay so.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I was way off $4 million a year.
So, that's a lot of babies,though.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
What you can do is you can start to do your market
research and say okay, how isthe new mom changing?
So you're not alienating a mommoms in general by saying, oh, I
need to now go after grandmas,or oh, I need to now go after
grandmas, or oh, I need to nowgo after single ladies Right,
and it is trending down to threeand a half.
Yeah, so you?
You instead can say, okay, whatis the younger generation?
(37:18):
Right, if the average personwhen I started my business five
years ago is 25, having a kid?
Now that you know the 25 to 30year old, what are they having
you know five years ago?
Or what are they interested in,you can start doing some, some
research to say, okay, hey, theGen Z moms are now the people
having babies, not millennialsas much.
So how do I create this productto tailor to her?
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Like cause, my maybe my image is the millennial yeah.
So you're always getting thesepeople aging in and out.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah.
So that's one way you can do it.
I think another way and one wayI want to not challenge, but
maybe move the discussion as wesay hey, how do you grow when
you're starting to tap out?
What you actually could do isyou could actually double down
even harder on your audience.
So you say double down.
You kind of talked from a spendperspective.
I'm talking from a like candouble down even Harder into a
(38:12):
Segmented part of an audience.
So if we're talking about Can Ijust?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
I just want to like Emphasize something here If you
take the baby market At 4million a year, let's just even
sandbag it At 3.7 million.
The baby market at 4 million ayear, let's just even sandbag it
at 3.7 million.
Right, let's say a realisticexpectation is to capture.
(38:42):
Let's just say, capture 10% ofthat market a year.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
That'd be 375,000.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Let's say your AOV is 100.
That's a $37 million business.
Yeah, Like that's like a.
I'm not saying it's easy to getcapture 10% of market share,
but even 5%.
Right, You're sitting at a 17,$18 million business a year,
(39:13):
which people would go nuts formost.
So again, like that's what I'msaying is like a lot of people
will hit these thresholds andit's like yeah it's like okay,
yeah, like once you starthitting like five to 10% of,
like, total market share, thenlike maybe your luxury so like
that's probably like five to 10%of babies are going to be born
in higher income brackets.
Yeah, so if you're luxury,maybe that is kind of where you
do it, but like no one evercares to look at what their
(39:37):
actual market is.
Yeah, like people just make agut assumptions because things
might be getting harder.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Well, what I was going to say is do you, let's?
Let's?
Just since we're on the momtopic, right, if you're starting
to see that your sale, likeselling, is, you know, dipping.
You could actually dip harderinto the mom niche, right, and
maybe you're going after thebreastfeeding mom, right,
because there's a lot ofdiscussion around breastfeeding
versus bottle feeding, versusboth.
(40:10):
You know you could maybe doubledown to the conservative mom
and that could actually helpscale and grow your business.
Or the more liberal mom or thewhatever right Like.
There's these things that youcan do that niches down even
harder.
That could actually make youmore money, even though you're
cutting out your totaladdressable market.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Does that make sense?
Totally Now, eventually, thatdoesn't get you to.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Again, you have to look at what your actual
obtainable markets are Like.
Most people don't even knowwhat their their true market
size is Like.
If you look at the baby marketlike, that's kind of like that's
just newborns though.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Like that's kind of like that's just newborns,
though.
Yeah, so if you're looking attoddlers though, like that's
kind of a two year gap, sothat's more of like an 8 million
Sure Market range.
So like, can you capture 2% ofthat?
Yeah, 3%.
Yeah, so yeah, the point of thediscussion is just like and is
it worth it to alienate yourpast audience to get you to a
(41:09):
bigger goal?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah Is just like, and is it worth it to alienate
your past audience to get you toa bigger goal?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, and oftentimes the answer is Oftentimes it's
not gonna be worth it.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, I mean, look what's you probably don't even
have 1%.
Yeah, half a percent.
Like does the market share does?
Speaker 1 (41:27):
the Jaguar brand Come back from this.
If they're smart, they know how.
It's gonna be really easy.
You just make something reallybadass and that's all you have
to do.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I think that Budweiser or not Budweiser Bud.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Light seems to have.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
They totally came back.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Seems to have come back.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
They got Post Malone and Well, they even got Kid Rock
that.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Shane Gillis guy.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Kid Rock.
Kid Rock, who was like Againsthim.
Got Kid Rock, that Shane Gillisguy yeah, well, they even got
Kid Rock who was like againsthim.
Yeah, he was like the guy whowas like oh my, I cannot believe
because he's an outspokenconservative yeah, you know,
especially around woke stuff.
And now even he's full team BudLight, same with same with, uh,
ufc, dana White Bud Light isnow a sponsor.
(42:08):
Oh, the UFC like they.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
So I wonder if that boycott I mean it impacted them.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
But I don't know if anyone remembers anymore yeah,
lost in billions, but I have notheard anybody.
You know, we're probably thelike.
We probably just opened upfresh wounds by me saying that
you know.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I don't think anyone remembers so like.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
But at the time they had lost like six billion
dollars.
Yeah, like overnight.
It was like a six billiondollar dip in there, like in
stock or whatever.
It was crazy.
It was crazy numbers, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
So well, I think that's good.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, but.
But there is a way to reverseit, which is People are
forgiving it's if you do itquick, yeah, if it's elongated
and it's years of it.
People are forgiving If you doit quick, yeah, if it's
elongated and it's years of itRight.
That's why I'm very curiousabout Jaguar.
We're six months deep.
They're still doubling down.
Beer costs a lot less to makethan a car, so that could be
(43:06):
like they could be.
You know, they claimed it was a2026.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, but you're talking like a brand.
You can change the brand andkeep the cars like their cars
might still be really coollooking and they do look kind of
cool Like they're veryfuturistic.
It's just toss the Flimsy,colorful, youthful thing.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Because those aren't the people buying your cars.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, so figure out what you want your goals to be.
I think that's the number one.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
A whimsical, more whimsical.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Do you need to be growing 100% year over year?
Maybe you took on someinvestment and so, yes, you do.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, and if you do just set the right expectations.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Then understand and actually look at.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
And again, if you're going to take on investment,
look at your actual obtainablemarket and see if it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Like can you actually grow and can you actually
capture X percent of the share?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, and just because your CPAs go up doesn't
mean your media buyer in houseis doing something wrong or
agency is doing something wrong.
It can, it can, but it couldjust mean that broken outside of
the low hanging fruit and yougot to start going hard.
So look at profitability.
Look at, and not justprofitability now, but
projection profitability too,which is huge.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
So I got to go.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I like it.
Anything else you want to add?
Speaker 1 (44:24):
No, I gotta go Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
All right, thanks everybody.
We'll see you guys next week.
Thank you so much for listeningto the unstoppable marketer
podcast.
Okay, all right, thankseverybody.
We'll see you guys next week.
Or give me any direct feedback.
(44:47):
Please go, follow me and get intouch with me.
I am at the Trevor Crump onboth Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.