November 4, 2025 • 40 mins
Mark and Trevor discuss the untapped potential of Google Ads for e-commerce brands. They break down why many companies undervalue Google as a demand capture channel, focusing on problem-solution products, research-heavy purchases, and price points above $150. The conversation reveals how four recent clients saw massive incremental lifts by shifting from 5-10% Google spend to 40-50%, without decreasing Meta budgets. They explain the difference between demand generation and demand capture, the importance of the "filter phase" for negative keywords, and why post-purchase surveys asking "how long have you been searching?" can transform your channel strategy. Mark shares real examples of brands hitting their best new customer acquisition days in October—typically a down month—by properly leveraging Google alongside Meta.
Connect with the Unstoppable Marketer on Instagram, Facebook, X, and youtube @unstoppablemarkerspodcast and share your thoughts on channel diversification strategies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
I think a lot of companies fall into this trap of
(00:01):
thinking that Google is just notgonna provide them any
incremental lift when some ofthe biggest incremental lifts
we've seen over the last fourmonths is in Google.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
Yo, what's going on, everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me as always is MarkGoldhart.
Mark, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03 (00:20):
Doing well.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Nice.
SPEAKER_03 (00:22):
Yeah.
Worked on my roof last weekend.
I saved$20,000.
And I did the math on it.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
So here's the math on roofers.
So if you if everyone'swondering why roofing is so
expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Yeah, I always am.
SPEAKER_03 (00:44):
The bid on my house was$28,000.
Okay.
That was with removal and thenre-shingling and replacing wood
that might need to be replaced.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (00:58):
Okay, so we did it.
I didn't go with a roofer, Ijust had six family members
help.
So there was seven of us.
It cost$7,800 for the materials.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:14):
And food and drinks for for my family.
So$7,800 total.
Like the materials is probablylike seven grand.
Huh?
SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
How many days of labor?
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
That would have been two and a half days.
So when you add up the hours, itwas probably roughly 20 total
hours of work.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:38):
So I don't know what they're paying those guys on
roofs, like twenty bucks anhour, twenty-five?
Is it more?
So you're looking at likebetween four and six grand of
labor cost.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Depending on how many people are up there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like when we did ourroof, there was like four to six
people.
SPEAKER_03 (01:58):
So you're doing four to six grand of labor cost.
You add that to the the materialcost and you're looking at
thirteen grand, fourteen grandmaybe?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Profit.
SPEAKER_03 (02:16):
Total cost for the for the business is the
materials plus the the weight ofthe the hours.
Yes.
The wages.
So eight grand plus four tofive.
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
And then 12 to 13.
The bid was$28,000.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So$15,000 in profits.
SPEAKER_03 (02:40):
$15,000.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
And then you probably add a couple things
like I'm sure insurance is crazyhigh for roofers.
Yeah.
You know, so like what is theinsurance per job?
I don't know if you can put itin the code.
No idea.
No idea.
It can't be more than a fewhundred.
SPEAKER_03 (02:54):
I have no idea.
You know.
I'd be sure.
I mean, even if you tack onanother thousand per job for
insurance.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
I mean, even if you tack on even if there's you're
saying you're making 10 grand inprofits in two days.
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
That's crazy.
Yep.
That's a lot of profit.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
Well, congratulations.
I'm very happy for you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:21):
Not today.
You're sore.
Oh no, I'm just saying, nottoday, roofers.
You didn't get that profit fromfrom my house.
Sorry, pals.
Sorry, pals.
We went Amish.
We we got nice.
We had six six dudes from afarming town come up and help
me.
SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
Nice.
SPEAKER_03 (03:42):
As I was on my roof, I said, you know, I think the
last time Salt Lake City sawthis many white guys on a roof
was probably 50 years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Maybe.
Maybe.
Very, very possibly.
Maybe.
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
Just Amish style.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:01):
For those of you who don't know about the Amish, they
like uh the whole community getstogether and fixes houses.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
They'll build a home in like 30 days together.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Yeah, it was all my wife's family came up.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Because there's 50 of them or 60 of them all
working on one house at once.
I have this really cool picture.
I used to live in like theLancaster, Pennsylvania area,
which is like Amish country.
Like that's where some of themost Amish density of population
is in the United States.
And I have a couple pictures oflike 40 people on a roof.
(04:38):
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (04:39):
It's also crazy how much work you can get done when
you have a team.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Oh yeah.
And they have such good systems.
SPEAKER_03 (04:45):
Yeah, like we didn't have a good system, but we still
got a lot done.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Yeah, I'm sure if you had a good system, maybe you
cut half a day off or something.
Probably.
SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Probably.
We had two dumpsters, so like wewere like pushing it right in.
On the backside, you can't.
We couldn't get a dumpster backthere, but but no, it was it was
great.
Nice.
Some uh manual work therapy isalways good.
Probably good for the soul.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
I agree.
Well, we've been off for a fewweeks.
It's really super busy.
We've been supporting clients,prepping for Black Friday, and
we've hired a bunch of newpeople.
So it's just been it's beencrazy for us.
So we apologize.
Um we also had fall break.
I was out of town for fallbreak.
SPEAKER_03 (05:28):
Yes, there was fall break.
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Which I think that I might I was in Mexico, and ever
since I've been back fromMexico, like my stomach hurts so
bad.
SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
Yeah, you probably got a worm.
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
I'm on day seven of it.
And I I'm not throwing up.
I'm not, you know, it's so it'snot like a a virus.
Something's wrong with me.
I feel like you know the feelingwhere you eat too much sugar and
you're like, I either have tothrow up or I have diarrhea.
Like that like gut-wrenchingfeeling for like 45 seconds.
SPEAKER_03 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
It's like that every 30 minutes, but for like five
minutes straight.
SPEAKER_03 (06:10):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
So I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_03 (06:14):
Gotta drink some horse dwormer.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (06:20):
I mean, I don't know, probably.
What is it called?
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
Or just go get some unmoxicillin and get it out of
me.
Hydro Oh, is that the stuff thatpeople were taking for COVID?
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Yeah.
Uh Hydrox no.
What is it called?
Why can't I remember what it'scalled anymore?
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
Um uh oh my, it's on the tip of my tongue.
SPEAKER_03 (06:45):
Freak uh Hydroxychlorine?
I hate it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
No, but it's not, it's not hydrox, it's uh Amox.
SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
Amoxicillin?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
You'll have to look it up, Nate.
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
Amoxicillin.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Were people taking antibacters?
It's a horse medication thatpeople were taking for COVID and
it was suppressing COVID.
unknown (07:07):
That is a thing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
No, type in like horse.
Horse dewormers horse medicationfor COVID.
Just type that in in Google andit will it'll give you the right
word.
COVID.
Joe Rogan was super into it.
Ivermectin.
Ivermectin.
That's it.
Ivermectin.
Ivermectin.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:26):
But there is another one, yeah.
Hydroxychloroquine.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
So if I'm looking uncomfortable, it may be because
I'm in a spell right now.
My little, I got a little wormor something.
I don't know what the heck isgoing on with me, but or maybe
TMI.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
Maybe someone did cast a spell on you while I was
out there.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Witchcraft.
SPEAKER_03 (07:46):
Some voodoo.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Yeah.
So what are we talking abouttoday?
Let's talk about marketing.
Sorry for those rants.
SPEAKER_03 (07:52):
Oh, yeah.
Well, let's just talk aboutsomething that we've seen some
clients.
Um, and I think it's worthtalking about because everyone
falls into one of these twocategories for their business.
But generally, we've talkedabout this on this podcast
before.
You're gonna always be heavierin channel diversification in
(08:14):
meta.
Like meta is the king, and itstill is, and it's generally
gonna be the best bang for yourbuck, depending on what you were
doing.
AppLeaven apparently is a goodup-and-coming channel.
I don't know, you know, it'sprobably not.
Depend upon what you're selling,and it's not gonna replace your
meta budget, though.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
Um, however, we have seen this over and over again in
the last four months, and thatis Google being unrespected.
Or disrespect, de-respect,disrespected.
(08:55):
Devalued.
Devalued.
Devalued.
Devalued, yeah, that's the goodword.
Yes.
You can't tell I'm pretty tired.
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Google is not a growth channel.
That's what you hear all thetime.
SPEAKER_03 (09:04):
Google is not a growth channel, and that's true.
It's not a it well, it's trueand it's not true because there
is YouTube, but it's not ademand uh generation channel.
It's a demand capture channel.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Yes.
You often mean oftentimes you doother things to create demand
capture.
You generate demand a lot oftimes through paid social,
organic social, or billboards,or you know, whatever.
Yeah, and it's and it's reallysimple, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:37):
Like people are searching for those things on
Google.
In meta, you're they're notnecessarily searching for those
things.
You're presenting them andtrying to generate demand.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
A want, a desire for them to then go and Instagram
purchase saying, I hope I get anad served to me where I will
then spend my money.
SPEAKER_03 (09:58):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
No one's doing that.
SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
But we have seen these companies, I mean, we've
seen four of them in a row wherethey lean more towards problem
solution.
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
The product leans more.
SPEAKER_03 (10:10):
The product leans more problem solution.
And Google is 5% of spend.
And it's all brand.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:19):
There's no strategy behind it at all.
It's just demand protection orbrand protection.
And we we we advocate for brandprotection.
There's a lot of companies outthere where brand protection is
kind of like the move in Google,and that's all it is, and like
we're honest about that.
But we're seeing it, we're justseeing it over and over again.
And I think a lot of companiesfall into this trap of thinking
(10:41):
that Google is just not gonnaprovide them any incremental
lift.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:47):
When some of the biggest incremental lifts we've
seen over the last four monthssince taking on some of these
clients is in Google.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:55):
So taking a so I wanted to I think we should just
break down how you can identifyif you are a business that
should lean heavier into Google.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Okay.
What well there's a coupledifferent ways.
So one, you can start as simpleas I think um figuring out if
you are served solve, like ifyour products do solve problems.
Like that's just like probablyeasiest, highest level without a
lot of data needed.
(11:29):
But trigger that way.
Uh yeah, I mean there's adifference between right,
obviously, clothing is aproblem.
If you're walking around naked,that's a problem.
So clothing is to some clothingis a need.
But it's not a problem, right?
Like, it just isn't.
(11:52):
At least we don't deem it as onein America for the most part.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
So No, but there is there are seasonal clothing
problems.
SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
For sure.
Yes, for sure.
Uh snow gloves.
SPEAKER_03 (12:05):
Or even just jackets.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah.
unknown (12:07):
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
So like it's not a like we think so much of
clothing is just fashion andfashion is just want, and that
is true.
But if you're a clothing brand,even a fashion boutique, like
there are seasonal trends thatyou should be very aware of that
happen on Google.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Yep.
The the other thing I think thatwould be an important thing.
So so yes, problem solutionstyle things.
I I need this in order to doXYZ.
So another thing would be likeuh rain gear for golf.
That's clothing, but that'svery, that's a very like ham a
golfer.
It doesn't rain very often, butwhen it does, I need something
to help me.
unknown (12:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:48):
So that that those are like the total demand
capture opportunity is notsmaller, but very niche.
Not very big.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Yes.
Um, you've got stuff like um uhbottle warmers.
Right?
Like baby bottle warmers.
Like every mom has experienced ababy screaming because the baby
needs food, and every mom's likeheating up water, then putting
(13:19):
in the baby bottle, and theneight minutes later it's ready
to feed, and so for eightminutes you're going through
living hell.
SPEAKER_03 (13:24):
But what's in do you know what's interesting about
this example though?
What is that is not a problemthat first-time moms are even
aware of.
Very true.
Oftentimes.
Yeah, very true.
SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
So it's uh it oftentimes happen.
Most people aren't aware of ituntil it's happened to them.
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Or until somebody, unless somebody maybe says hey.
SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Unless they're like given it.
Yeah, like maybe someone says,use this.
Yeah.
Like don't go through what Idid.
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
For example, for me, I remember the first time my
wife left me in charge of ourfirstborn.
She was gone for like two hours,and she's like, hey, there's a
really good chance that likebaby's not waking up.
But if she does, if she does andshe's sad outside of like bath,
you know, she went to thebathroom and you need to change
your diaper, feed her this.
(14:07):
And sure enough, like she startssobbing, and it's taking me
eight minutes, and I'm like,brand new dad, like, oh my gosh.
I'm struggling here, you know.
Now you put that in like arestaurant setting.
SPEAKER_03 (14:20):
Or a movie.
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
Or Thanksgiving.
Yeah, it's crazy, you know.
Diaper bags, that's anotherproblem solution kind of
product.
Um I think you started to getinto other things that maybe
aren't as problem solution, butum high, I need more information
to buy.
That's another thing to thinkabout.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
Yeah.
So there's the yeah, the theresearch.
Yep.
If you're if you're productoften involves a level of
research to it.
And that could be like leveloften happening on Google.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Yeah, level of research could be products that
there's a lot of them.
And so you're trying to decidebetween a certain one.
Skin care.
SPEAKER_03 (15:00):
A lot of them price point.
Um has like price point hassomething to do with this.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Thing in the health anything in the health space?
SPEAKER_03 (15:08):
Yeah, health.
Health and wellness.
I do want to emphasize higherprice points is often an easy
way to determine that.
Like if you're over 150 bucks.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Yeah, 150 bucks.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
You're probably gonna have a bet at bigger
research cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
Yeah.
Meaning that usually productsunder over 150 to 200 are not
impulse buys, is what Mark iskind of saying.
And so when something's notimpulse, meaning I see an ad and
immediately I go and make apurchase, there's oftentimes
some research, like, you know,if if I'm buying a golf bag,
yeah, golf bag is 300.
That's three three hundred andfifty dollars.
SPEAKER_03 (15:43):
Well, because oftentimes these products are
not something that you needright away.
SPEAKER_00 (15:46):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
True.
Right.
It's something that you want andit might be a problem solution
too, but it's something thatyou're just like, uh, 300 bucks.
Like uh, is there somethingcheaper?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
Yeah.
Do I search for cheaper?
SPEAKER_03 (15:59):
Is it is it worth 300?
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Do I determine why this one's worth$300 versus the
one I saw over here that may notlook as cool?
Like I just went through thiswith pants.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
Because I'm at that stage in life where I'm like,
you know, my pant size has notchanged in 15 years.
Yeah.
I don't need to.
I probably should invest inpants that are just durable and
they're gonna last for 20 years.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
And maybe if I'm paying a little more.
SPEAKER_03 (16:27):
I'm entering my dad phase.
Like I don't really I don'tthink my style is gonna change.
So I should probably just buypants that are gonna last for 20
years.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
You're investing in your style today.
SPEAKER_03 (16:36):
They're gonna be a hundred.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
I'm carrying about what they're gonna be in style
tomorrow.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
They're gonna be like$200 pants.
Yeah.
But I've never spent more than$100 on pants.
SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
And so I'm like, okay, well, there's like, is it
worth it?
Is it yeah like is there anotherbrand that offers the same
thing?
So like there was a littlelevel, like not intense
research, but just enoughresearch to say, like, is this
something that actually is as isthe quality as good as they say?
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
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Then the other thing that youcan do to put some data behind
it is you can start askingyourself questions.
Okay, um if I'm selling a shoeor um ski gloves or a
(18:13):
supplement, what kind ofquestions do people want
answered before?
If I was just buying this, whatquestions would I want answered
before?
SPEAKER_03 (18:20):
And by the way, it's very easy to do this with AI
now.
Yeah.
You can just ask and I and andfor these types of questions,
ask Google Gemini.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:33):
I think Google Gemini has a little bit of a
better network to tap into withthat.
Well, it's also it's also the AIattached to Google.
I think it just gives a littlebetter responses for these types
of uh categories.
But ask it.
Yeah, what kind of questions doconsumers have around this
product?
SPEAKER_00 (18:52):
Yeah.
And then you can go and do akeyword research analysis to
figure out how many how oftenpeople are searching with terms
or words in that realm.
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
To understand what kind of capacity you have to
win.
SPEAKER_03 (19:08):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
And experience the incrementality that Google can
bring you.
SPEAKER_03 (19:12):
So that's that's like the research, right?
So you have these three phases.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
Can I add one more?
SPEAKER_03 (19:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Let me add just one more.
The other thing that you can dois you can do research through
post-purchase surveys to figureout what the actual journey of a
customer is.
So, like if you're on thisin-between phase where you're
like, I just don't know.
And where did you first hearabout me?
Yeah.
You can start to say, you know,for example, let's take golf
(19:37):
bags.
How long have you been lookingfor a golf bag?
Where did you go to discovermore about golf bags?
When did you hear about us?
Why did you decide to pick usversus somebody else?
And how long were you doing thisfor?
That right like those fivequestions right there give you
an entire like pretty much theentire customer journey.
SPEAKER_03 (19:57):
And if you only have room for one question or two,
ask how long?
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
How long you've been searching and what platforms
you're using.
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
And what platforms you're using.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
And do multiple choice on the what platforms.
SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
Yeah.
Right.
That's that will give you yourbuyer journey.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
And then because people, again, going back to the
buyer journey, it's not a linearyeah.
It's not a linear path anymore.
Like people are going back andforth between channels.
Like people are on TikTok andthey're on Instagram and then
they're searching.
And then so it's a cyclicalthing.
Totally.
That isn't a linear path.
So give them the option toselect multiple channels, like
Trevor said.
(20:36):
And then understand if somebody,if your average duration of
people knowing about thisproduct or researching the
product is three months, sixmonths, then you know, okay,
this is a we're a researchproduct.
Like we are, we are a productthat needs to, or we're a
company that needs to investheavily into answering research
(20:59):
phase questions.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
Or if, or if on the flip side, whether it's that
long or shorter.
SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
Or if it's seven days.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
But if you're getting people who are saying
Google is the number one placeI'm searching.
SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
Then boom.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
Right?
Because some searches might justsome so for example, things that
are at a lower price point, butyou want to search the right
one.
Let's take a greens product.
A greens product is$30 to$75.
That can be an impulse buy.
Yes.
Right?
That can be a seven-day buywindow.
But there might be some researchthat goes into it.
SPEAKER_03 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:32):
Right.
So that's why you want to lookat time and channel platforms.
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
So love it.
So you have research, which isreally top funnel.
Okay.
You have people just searchingdirectly for whatever the
product is.
Like if you sell floral dresses,people are searching floral
dresses, right?
And then you have what arecalled long tail, but and then
you have people searching foryour brand.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:59):
So you have people searching for the product, you
have product categories, right?
Or or verticals, and then youhave research.
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Yeah.
So so let's give them like areal life example.
Someone typing in Nike.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
So Nike's a brand search.
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (22:14):
So running shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah, running shoes.
That's their product.
SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
That's the product that they have.
SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
Yep.
And then somebody typing inrunning shoes for trail running.
SPEAKER_03 (22:24):
Trail running shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
Shoes for men.
Are these long-tailed?
SPEAKER_03 (22:30):
More long-tail, like that's a product, but also like
a category.
Trail running is a category.
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (22:36):
And then you have what kind of shoes should I have
for trail running?
SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (22:43):
There's your research.
There's some some ideas.
But going back to these kinds ofthese kinds of brands that we've
run into where we're seeing alot of incremental growth out of
Google.
Um, and in these four companies,the only place we have put
additional budget is in Google.
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:04):
And the reason being is because their total
addressable market and thedemand capture for these product
categories and these products ismassive.
It's massive and totallyuntapped.
They're spending, you know, I'mjust gonna give you guys like a
I'm making these numbers up justto give you the ratios.
If they're spending 100 grand amonth, they were spending five
(23:27):
to ten grand in Google, wherenow they're spending 40 to 50
grand in Google.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
And what that allows you to do, the the beauty of
like so like what Mark said isAnd this is not brand.
SPEAKER_03 (23:42):
Yeah.
I want to emphasize that.
This is not on brand searches,this is on product, product
category, and research phase.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Yes.
And and what Mark is saying isso for a lot of you brands, you
have growth opportunity inGoogle that may hit a point.
Right?
Yes.
Once you start capturing thedemand that is existing that
you're not going after,eventually Google will start to
(24:12):
hit a somewhat of a wall.
Right?
We're not we're not saying it'sthen you never spend.
SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Again, because it's demand capture.
There's only so much demand fora certain product or product
category.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
But right now what we're seeing is is when
somebody's wanting to increasebudgets because things are going
well, or sometimes when thingsaren't going well, but they just
need to make up more money,right?
You're seeing it on the metaside because the end platform
looks great or whatever.
When what you could be doing isyou could be significantly more
efficient in gathering up stuffthat's just waiting to be
(24:49):
gathered, or that yourcompetitors are gathering
without your competition in theway.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
Um, so there's just great opportunity for you to
reap what's been sowed downhere.
SPEAKER_03 (25:04):
And also push people into the meta funnel.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (25:08):
So it's both, it goes both ways in Google, and
that's the beauty of it is forif you go up to the research
phase.
So let's let's talk about why inthis one brand we're now
spending 40% of their budget inis now in Google when it was
five, 10%.
Yeah.
And the reason why is becausethe campaigns that are scaling
(25:33):
in Google are pushing people atthe very beginning of their
product discovery phase to thisbrand.
They're now getting retargetedand pushed into a meta funnel.
Okay.
And so now we we've we'vecaptured them on both ends.
Like, hey, we're the firstcompany that they know about
(25:53):
when they're searching for thesethings.
And now they're gettingreintroduced.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Now they're getting testimonials and user-generated
content and on meta and on meta.
SPEAKER_03 (26:02):
And now, if they search again on Google, we're
there again.
So like we're we're capturingthis repeated touch points of
this buyer cycle.
And so even though we've seen inthis company, there's a few of
these campaigns, they don't havegreat row as at all.
They don't even look likethey're doing anything.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Yeah.
In platform.
SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
In platform.
Doesn't look like much.
But what we are seeing, to justvalidate your point, is we're
seeing meta performanceincrease.
Get better.
And we're seeing overall newcustomer acquisition increase.
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (26:39):
In a very relative way with budget increase.
Absolutely.
Like as we've increased budget,like we're now hitting our best
new customer days of the year inOctober, by the way, which is
supposed to be a down month.
A notoriously inefficient month.
So a few of these brands arehaving their best new customer
acquisition months in October ofthe entire year.
(27:02):
And that's not just looking atROI totals.
Yeah.
Going into November, which issupposed to, you know, usually
you see a pretty big harddecline in efficiencies in
October.
And you should becauseNovember's around the corner.
People are expecting deals.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (27:19):
But if you're hitting people in the demand
capture, it's because they needit or want it sooner.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (27:24):
And so it's it's uh it's a very synergistic or
synergistic relationship withmeta.
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Yeah.
And we're not saying by anymeans to necessarily take all
your money away from meta andput it in there.
SPEAKER_03 (27:37):
We're just saying start to No, in these
situations, we have notdecreased budget in Meta.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
You're just increasing over on the Google
side of it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:46):
We're just increasing Google.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Yeah, I want to get that.
I wanted to get that point outbecause then there's a lot of
people who are like, well, howare you generating more demand?
And so you're gonna getquestions like that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
So um and meta will likely be the biggest spender
still for these companies.
It's just you're trying to findthe right balance and levers.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
Especially when you haven't been spending the way
you should in Google, right?
Because your initial right, youlike you said, with this brand
that we took on, you know, thesebrands who have who are not
investing in Google, where itwas a 90 10 or 80-20 kind of
relationship, we're now seeing60-40, 50-50-ish.
Eventually that will start tothe gap might start to get a
(28:25):
little bit bigger again.
And instead of it being 50-50,um, it might be more like 70-30.
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
Yeah, here's like a great example of this would be,
and I'd be really interested tohear how they did it.
But if you go to like a ridgewallet, I'm using them because
that like a lot of people in theD2C space, you know who they
are.
They're they're big.
They're uh Sean, the CEO, isgreat at sharing information on
Twitter for the D2C community.
(28:51):
Um, but they're a great exampleof a brand that in the early
stages, it's like people aresearching for wallets.
Yeah.
But eventually you get to thisspot where, of course, meta's
gonna continue to increase whereGoogle won't be able to
increase.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (29:09):
So at the beginning, you could maybe be 50-50 or
60-40 or 70-30.
Yes.
But eventually, depending on howbig you you get, you're you're
gonna be capturing so much ofthat demand, and there's only so
much demand to capture on Googlethat it's gonna start separating
again.
SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Of course.
Yeah.
I mean, I I remember I had aboss one time.
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
But if you're listening to this podcast, my
guess is you're not doing ninefigures.
SPEAKER_00 (29:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's probably if you'renot in that situation, you know,
but yeah, totally.
I mean, I remember having a bosswhen we were doing like the
brand was doing like 250million.
And I remember him always beinglike, Trevor, we need to spend
more on Google.
Like, get us more on Google,it's the best return.
It's like I can only spend basedoff of what people are
(29:59):
searching.
Like we have like we we have tobe capturing, we have to be
creating more demand in orderfor that to happen, you know.
So like like Mark said,eventually it starts to, it is
going to separate, right?
SPEAKER_03 (30:09):
And the other problem with Google that you'll
run into is it in P Max or injust regular search campaigns is
spending money on on searchkeywords that will not provide
you any value.
Yes.
So it's not all rainbows andsunshine.
No, no, no.
(30:29):
Like there is a there's a deepstrategy that goes into making
Google work.
I just want to emphasize that.
So like don't go running in andjust throw a ton of butt money
into a P Max campaign.
You have to know the strategiesand what to do.
Yeah, there's a But you shouldbe aware if you're if you're if
you're an owner or if you're inmarketing or director in this
(30:50):
category, that I would bewilling to bet that a lot of
people are undervaluing and notappreciating what Google could
actually do for their business.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
Yeah.
And some of it might be thatthey, hey, hey, Trevor or Mark,
we tried to do this and itdidn't work for us.
And that could be leaning intothe point you just made, which
is there's an art to it as well.
Right.
We are we have experienced thiswhere, you know, we're working
with an appliance company andhave found that the category of
(31:24):
appliances for residential, thesearch terms seem very like, oh
yeah, that would be a greatsearch.
It seems straightforward to bidon.
But what we're starting to findis, oh, this seems almost more
like somebody who's looking forsomething from a restaurant or
more commercial perspective.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
And then Google's pushing more money into that
because it's because they'reclicking.
Because people are clicking, butit's not converting the right
intent.
SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
Because they're realizing, oh, this is meant for
a home.
Yes.
Not to be on for 24 hours a dayserving.
150 people, you know, an hour.
So so that's what Mark is sayingabout, you know, you don't just
want to set it and forget it andassume that it's working.
SPEAKER_03 (32:09):
So if you fit in the case, you will go through a f
you will go through what we callthe filter phase.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Totally, where you feel like you're wasting money.
SPEAKER_03 (32:15):
Like either you can use an H refs or a SEO rush or
SEM rush.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
SEM rush, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
And it'll give you some, it'll give you a really
good starting point, and thoseare great tools to use if you
want to avoid the filter phase.
But we have found that the bestthing is just to embrace the
filter phase.
Like you do your keywordresearch, you have your
categories, but like you justhave to diligently go through
and find where you think theintent was and where the
(32:44):
misinterpretation of people'sintent is.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
You think it's obvious and itnever is.
It's it's bizarre, but you'llfind in Google, oh, uh let's
just take like let's just take acell phone, right?
Like you'll put in these termsand then you'll see terms that
pop up like cell phone cleaner.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (33:07):
Yep.
It's like what?
I'm selling an iPhone.
Why is it like why?
And now I'm people who aresearching for a cleaner are
clicking on my ads.
Yeah.
That's that's the kind of stuffthat will happen with PMAX and
these AI and and just auto-runcampaigns, which are going to be
a lot what a lot of people do atthe beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
So you just have to be very careful about what your
negative keywords are.
SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:29):
And your intents.
And once you do that through thefilter phase, that's when you
start seeing that incrementalresults where you're like, okay,
we know we're getting the rightsearches.
We're capturing them, dependingon where they are in in the
cycle.
Is it a research phase?
Is it product categories ofproduct?
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:50):
And are we getting these people to come back and
buy?
SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
Yeah.
And then continue to run that uhthose surveys.
And as you start to and see ifyou start to see your Google
slash YouTube, people are sayingthey this is how I'm discovering
you starts to increase.
SPEAKER_03 (34:08):
And then the last bit of advice is when you are
leaning into Google a littlemore, not abandoning Meta.
SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (34:19):
But leaning into Google more and taking advantage
of what's there.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Um And that's not can I say something really
quick?
SPEAKER_03 (34:25):
Yeah, let me just finish this phase though.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:28):
Fa phrase, phase, phrase.
Comment.
Sorry guys.
When you're on a roof for threedays and sleeping like six
hours, I guess.
It's hard to think.
Um I just want to emphasize thatuh messed you up.
You want clean metadata.
SPEAKER_00 (34:52):
Meta data, not talking about meta the platform.
SPEAKER_03 (34:55):
Not meta the platform.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (34:57):
You want clean metadata in your catalogs and on
your pages.
And I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
We're not saying that don't also continue to
increase your meta spend too.
SPEAKER_03 (35:06):
That's not it.
Yeah, we're not saying that.
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
We're not saying take it away.
We're also not saying onlyincrease this.
Evaluate the performance isworking.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (35:14):
With these particular companies, it just
happened to be four of them in arow.
In a row.
Yeah.
It was it's bizarre.
SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
Well, and we're seeing it with other clients too
that we're working with.
Yes.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
Just bigger opportunities.
It was just bigger opportunityjust to go straight into there
right away.
And sometimes it's better tohold things constant.
So Yeah.
So when you because when you'respending and you're just
increasing all over the placeand you're not measuring it the
right way, sometimes it's alittle harder.
For sure.
You can, and you can use thingslike North Beam and you can, you
(35:44):
know, there's there's tools.
But sometimes we like to,depending on levels of spend,
just be like, let's just holdmeta for two weeks, increase
here.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:54):
You know, go in go in staggered results.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
Yeah, we're kind of in this.
I actually think we need to doanother podcast.
Maybe this is what we do nextweek.
Our very first podcast episodewe did was um called The
Marketing Apocalypse.
Do you remember?
Yeah.
Well, well, I take that back.
Maybe our very first podcast waslike an introduction.
That was iOS 14.
(36:17):
You know, like a five-minutepodcast.
But the actual legitimate one,it was called the Marketing
Apocalypse.
We did it a few months after iOS14.5 changed.
Yeah.
And the purpose of that waslike, look how far we've become
and look how little tools arehelping us.
Was kind of the concept.
SPEAKER_03 (36:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like there's a tool foreverything, but like none of the
tools were helping.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah.
And what's crazy is like notonly has that episode been so
true, like it's, it's, it's, uh,it's aged very well, is what I
should say.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Yeah, I think it has.
SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
It's probably even more relevant now for exactly
what you just said.
You know, we get people all thetime like, well, my triple L is
saying this.
And it's like, we, we, we listento it, and all of a sudden sales
tank.
SPEAKER_03 (37:09):
And again, and this isn't this isn't a knock on
triple.
No, no, no, not at all.
It's it's a knock on how to readyour speedometer.
Yeah, well, and it's just a it'sjust a like we've used this
metaphor before, but it's likeyour ROAS is just one measure on
your speedometer, like your yourdashboard.
SPEAKER_02 (37:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (37:29):
Like it's it's a measure, and that's great.
But like on a car, like you'relooking at your dash, and it's
like, okay, I've got myodometer, my speedometer, I've
got my RPMs.
SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (37:42):
Like my RPMs, if all I'm doing is staring at my RPM,
which is an efficiency typemetric for your car, and I'm
just holding it at 2,000 all thetime.
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Maybe I'm not gonna get to my destination in time.
SPEAKER_03 (37:56):
Like, is that really what you need to be paying
attention to?
But like because you also havespeed limits.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (38:04):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (38:05):
You know, and you have acceleration that you need
to do.
Like you might run into a car.
Like you're gonna be way morelikely to cause more issues if
you can't accelerate the rightway.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
So the the the point is So you can't just get stuck
on a metric like ROAS, even ifit's coming from a place like
triple well, because that's notnecessarily gonna get you to
your destination.
It's one thing to look at,right?
You want things to be constantand like you want to gauge those
things, but like you don't wantto just be like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:33):
Let's do marketing apocalypse part two.
I need a year later next week.
I think that's the podcastepisode.
Part two.
SPEAKER_03 (38:44):
Time to outpace your ROAS.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Four years later.
Yeah, and like in fact, quitefrankly, you might actually want
a lower ROAS.
I think most people should wanta lower ROAS.
But nobody nobody would ever saythat.
That's the hack in life.
No.
If you can have a lower ROAS andwin, you're you win even better.
SPEAKER_03 (39:04):
Well, yeah, because it goes back to marketing 101
that people have known since the20s.
It's just touch points andreach.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
I like it.
Okay.
Let's end there.
Sorry we were gone for so long.
I'm not sorry, but we're sorryfor you guys.
We love and respect you guys,but we were just busy.
SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
So it was very busy.
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
Yeah.
Alright.
We'll see you guys later nextweek.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
Podcast.
Please go rate and subscribe tothe podcast.
Whether it's good or bad, wewant to hear from you because we
always want to make this podcastbetter.
If you want to get in touch withme or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(39:54):
I am at the Trevor Crump on bothInstagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
I think a lot of companies fall into this trap of
(00:01):
thinking that Google is just notgonna provide them any
incremental lift when some ofthe biggest incremental lifts
we've seen over the last fourmonths is in Google.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
Yo, what's going on, everybody?
Welcome to the UnstoppableMarketer Podcast.
With me as always is MarkGoldhart.
Mark, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03 (00:20):
Doing well.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Nice.
SPEAKER_03 (00:22):
Yeah.
Worked on my roof last weekend.
I saved$20,000.
And I did the math on it.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
So here's the math on roofers.
So if you if everyone'swondering why roofing is so
expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Yeah, I always am.
SPEAKER_03 (00:44):
The bid on my house was$28,000.
Okay.
That was with removal and thenre-shingling and replacing wood
that might need to be replaced.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (00:58):
Okay, so we did it.
I didn't go with a roofer, Ijust had six family members
help.
So there was seven of us.
It cost$7,800 for the materials.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:14):
And food and drinks for for my family.
So$7,800 total.
Like the materials is probablylike seven grand.
Huh?
SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
How many days of labor?
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
That would have been two and a half days.
So when you add up the hours, itwas probably roughly 20 total
hours of work.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:38):
So I don't know what they're paying those guys on
roofs, like twenty bucks anhour, twenty-five?
Is it more?
So you're looking at likebetween four and six grand of
labor cost.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Depending on how many people are up there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like when we did ourroof, there was like four to six
people.
SPEAKER_03 (01:58):
So you're doing four to six grand of labor cost.
You add that to the the materialcost and you're looking at
thirteen grand, fourteen grandmaybe?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Profit.
SPEAKER_03 (02:16):
Total cost for the for the business is the
materials plus the the weight ofthe the hours.
Yes.
The wages.
So eight grand plus four tofive.
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
And then 12 to 13.
The bid was$28,000.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So$15,000 in profits.
SPEAKER_03 (02:40):
$15,000.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
And then you probably add a couple things
like I'm sure insurance is crazyhigh for roofers.
Yeah.
You know, so like what is theinsurance per job?
I don't know if you can put itin the code.
No idea.
No idea.
It can't be more than a fewhundred.
SPEAKER_03 (02:54):
I have no idea.
You know.
I'd be sure.
I mean, even if you tack onanother thousand per job for
insurance.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
I mean, even if you tack on even if there's you're
saying you're making 10 grand inprofits in two days.
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
That's crazy.
Yep.
That's a lot of profit.
SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
Well, congratulations.
I'm very happy for you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:21):
Not today.
You're sore.
Oh no, I'm just saying, nottoday, roofers.
You didn't get that profit fromfrom my house.
Sorry, pals.
Sorry, pals.
We went Amish.
We we got nice.
We had six six dudes from afarming town come up and help
me.
SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
Nice.
SPEAKER_03 (03:42):
As I was on my roof, I said, you know, I think the
last time Salt Lake City sawthis many white guys on a roof
was probably 50 years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Maybe.
Maybe.
Very, very possibly.
Maybe.
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
Just Amish style.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:01):
For those of you who don't know about the Amish, they
like uh the whole community getstogether and fixes houses.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
They'll build a home in like 30 days together.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Yeah, it was all my wife's family came up.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Because there's 50 of them or 60 of them all
working on one house at once.
I have this really cool picture.
I used to live in like theLancaster, Pennsylvania area,
which is like Amish country.
Like that's where some of themost Amish density of population
is in the United States.
And I have a couple pictures oflike 40 people on a roof.
(04:38):
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (04:39):
It's also crazy how much work you can get done when
you have a team.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Oh yeah.
And they have such good systems.
SPEAKER_03 (04:45):
Yeah, like we didn't have a good system, but we still
got a lot done.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Yeah, I'm sure if you had a good system, maybe you
cut half a day off or something.
Probably.
SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Probably.
We had two dumpsters, so like wewere like pushing it right in.
On the backside, you can't.
We couldn't get a dumpster backthere, but but no, it was it was
great.
Nice.
Some uh manual work therapy isalways good.
Probably good for the soul.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
I agree.
Well, we've been off for a fewweeks.
It's really super busy.
We've been supporting clients,prepping for Black Friday, and
we've hired a bunch of newpeople.
So it's just been it's beencrazy for us.
So we apologize.
Um we also had fall break.
I was out of town for fallbreak.
SPEAKER_03 (05:28):
Yes, there was fall break.
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Which I think that I might I was in Mexico, and ever
since I've been back fromMexico, like my stomach hurts so
bad.
SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
Yeah, you probably got a worm.
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
I'm on day seven of it.
And I I'm not throwing up.
I'm not, you know, it's so it'snot like a a virus.
Something's wrong with me.
I feel like you know the feelingwhere you eat too much sugar and
you're like, I either have tothrow up or I have diarrhea.
Like that like gut-wrenchingfeeling for like 45 seconds.
SPEAKER_03 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:05):
It's like that every 30 minutes, but for like five
minutes straight.
SPEAKER_03 (06:10):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
So I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_03 (06:14):
Gotta drink some horse dwormer.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (06:20):
I mean, I don't know, probably.
What is it called?
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
Or just go get some unmoxicillin and get it out of
me.
Hydro Oh, is that the stuff thatpeople were taking for COVID?
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Yeah.
Uh Hydrox no.
What is it called?
Why can't I remember what it'scalled anymore?
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
Um uh oh my, it's on the tip of my tongue.
SPEAKER_03 (06:45):
Freak uh Hydroxychlorine?
I hate it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
No, but it's not, it's not hydrox, it's uh Amox.
SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
Amoxicillin?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
You'll have to look it up, Nate.
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
Amoxicillin.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Were people taking antibacters?
It's a horse medication thatpeople were taking for COVID and
it was suppressing COVID.
unknown (07:07):
That is a thing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
No, type in like horse.
Horse dewormers horse medicationfor COVID.
Just type that in in Google andit will it'll give you the right
word.
COVID.
Joe Rogan was super into it.
Ivermectin.
Ivermectin.
That's it.
Ivermectin.
Ivermectin.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:26):
But there is another one, yeah.
Hydroxychloroquine.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
So if I'm looking uncomfortable, it may be because
I'm in a spell right now.
My little, I got a little wormor something.
I don't know what the heck isgoing on with me, but or maybe
TMI.
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
Maybe someone did cast a spell on you while I was
out there.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Witchcraft.
SPEAKER_03 (07:46):
Some voodoo.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Yeah.
So what are we talking abouttoday?
Let's talk about marketing.
Sorry for those rants.
SPEAKER_03 (07:52):
Oh, yeah.
Well, let's just talk aboutsomething that we've seen some
clients.
Um, and I think it's worthtalking about because everyone
falls into one of these twocategories for their business.
But generally, we've talkedabout this on this podcast
before.
You're gonna always be heavierin channel diversification in
(08:14):
meta.
Like meta is the king, and itstill is, and it's generally
gonna be the best bang for yourbuck, depending on what you were
doing.
AppLeaven apparently is a goodup-and-coming channel.
I don't know, you know, it'sprobably not.
Depend upon what you're selling,and it's not gonna replace your
meta budget, though.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (08:34):
Um, however, we have seen this over and over again in
the last four months, and thatis Google being unrespected.
Or disrespect, de-respect,disrespected.
(08:55):
Devalued.
Devalued.
Devalued.
Devalued, yeah, that's the goodword.
Yes.
You can't tell I'm pretty tired.
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Google is not a growth channel.
That's what you hear all thetime.
SPEAKER_03 (09:04):
Google is not a growth channel, and that's true.
It's not a it well, it's trueand it's not true because there
is YouTube, but it's not ademand uh generation channel.
It's a demand capture channel.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Yes.
You often mean oftentimes you doother things to create demand
capture.
You generate demand a lot oftimes through paid social,
organic social, or billboards,or you know, whatever.
Yeah, and it's and it's reallysimple, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:37):
Like people are searching for those things on
Google.
In meta, you're they're notnecessarily searching for those
things.
You're presenting them andtrying to generate demand.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
A want, a desire for them to then go and Instagram
purchase saying, I hope I get anad served to me where I will
then spend my money.
SPEAKER_03 (09:58):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
No one's doing that.
SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
But we have seen these companies, I mean, we've
seen four of them in a row wherethey lean more towards problem
solution.
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
The product leans more.
SPEAKER_03 (10:10):
The product leans more problem solution.
And Google is 5% of spend.
And it's all brand.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:19):
There's no strategy behind it at all.
It's just demand protection orbrand protection.
And we we we advocate for brandprotection.
There's a lot of companies outthere where brand protection is
kind of like the move in Google,and that's all it is, and like
we're honest about that.
But we're seeing it, we're justseeing it over and over again.
And I think a lot of companiesfall into this trap of thinking
(10:41):
that Google is just not gonnaprovide them any incremental
lift.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:47):
When some of the biggest incremental lifts we've
seen over the last four monthssince taking on some of these
clients is in Google.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:55):
So taking a so I wanted to I think we should just
break down how you can identifyif you are a business that
should lean heavier into Google.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Okay.
What well there's a coupledifferent ways.
So one, you can start as simpleas I think um figuring out if
you are served solve, like ifyour products do solve problems.
Like that's just like probablyeasiest, highest level without a
lot of data needed.
(11:29):
But trigger that way.
Uh yeah, I mean there's adifference between right,
obviously, clothing is aproblem.
If you're walking around naked,that's a problem.
So clothing is to some clothingis a need.
But it's not a problem, right?
Like, it just isn't.
(11:52):
At least we don't deem it as onein America for the most part.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
So No, but there is there are seasonal clothing
problems.
SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
For sure.
Yes, for sure.
Uh snow gloves.
SPEAKER_03 (12:05):
Or even just jackets.
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah.
unknown (12:07):
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
So like it's not a like we think so much of
clothing is just fashion andfashion is just want, and that
is true.
But if you're a clothing brand,even a fashion boutique, like
there are seasonal trends thatyou should be very aware of that
happen on Google.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Yep.
The the other thing I think thatwould be an important thing.
So so yes, problem solutionstyle things.
I I need this in order to doXYZ.
So another thing would be likeuh rain gear for golf.
That's clothing, but that'svery, that's a very like ham a
golfer.
It doesn't rain very often, butwhen it does, I need something
to help me.
unknown (12:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:48):
So that that those are like the total demand
capture opportunity is notsmaller, but very niche.
Not very big.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Yes.
Um, you've got stuff like um uhbottle warmers.
Right?
Like baby bottle warmers.
Like every mom has experienced ababy screaming because the baby
needs food, and every mom's likeheating up water, then putting
(13:19):
in the baby bottle, and theneight minutes later it's ready
to feed, and so for eightminutes you're going through
living hell.
SPEAKER_03 (13:24):
But what's in do you know what's interesting about
this example though?
What is that is not a problemthat first-time moms are even
aware of.
Very true.
Oftentimes.
Yeah, very true.
SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
So it's uh it oftentimes happen.
Most people aren't aware of ituntil it's happened to them.
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Or until somebody, unless somebody maybe says hey.
SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Unless they're like given it.
Yeah, like maybe someone says,use this.
Yeah.
Like don't go through what Idid.
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
For example, for me, I remember the first time my
wife left me in charge of ourfirstborn.
She was gone for like two hours,and she's like, hey, there's a
really good chance that likebaby's not waking up.
But if she does, if she does andshe's sad outside of like bath,
you know, she went to thebathroom and you need to change
your diaper, feed her this.
(14:07):
And sure enough, like she startssobbing, and it's taking me
eight minutes, and I'm like,brand new dad, like, oh my gosh.
I'm struggling here, you know.
Now you put that in like arestaurant setting.
SPEAKER_03 (14:20):
Or a movie.
SPEAKER_00 (14:23):
Or Thanksgiving.
Yeah, it's crazy, you know.
Diaper bags, that's anotherproblem solution kind of
product.
Um I think you started to getinto other things that maybe
aren't as problem solution, butum high, I need more information
to buy.
That's another thing to thinkabout.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
Yeah.
So there's the yeah, the theresearch.
Yep.
If you're if you're productoften involves a level of
research to it.
And that could be like leveloften happening on Google.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Yeah, level of research could be products that
there's a lot of them.
And so you're trying to decidebetween a certain one.
Skin care.
SPEAKER_03 (15:00):
A lot of them price point.
Um has like price point hassomething to do with this.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Thing in the health anything in the health space?
SPEAKER_03 (15:08):
Yeah, health.
Health and wellness.
I do want to emphasize higherprice points is often an easy
way to determine that.
Like if you're over 150 bucks.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Yeah, 150 bucks.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
You're probably gonna have a bet at bigger
research cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
Yeah.
Meaning that usually productsunder over 150 to 200 are not
impulse buys, is what Mark iskind of saying.
And so when something's notimpulse, meaning I see an ad and
immediately I go and make apurchase, there's oftentimes
some research, like, you know,if if I'm buying a golf bag,
yeah, golf bag is 300.
That's three three hundred andfifty dollars.
SPEAKER_03 (15:43):
Well, because oftentimes these products are
not something that you needright away.
SPEAKER_00 (15:46):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
True.
Right.
It's something that you want andit might be a problem solution
too, but it's something thatyou're just like, uh, 300 bucks.
Like uh, is there somethingcheaper?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
Yeah.
Do I search for cheaper?
SPEAKER_03 (15:59):
Is it is it worth 300?
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
Do I determine why this one's worth$300 versus the
one I saw over here that may notlook as cool?
Like I just went through thiswith pants.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
Because I'm at that stage in life where I'm like,
you know, my pant size has notchanged in 15 years.
Yeah.
I don't need to.
I probably should invest inpants that are just durable and
they're gonna last for 20 years.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
And maybe if I'm paying a little more.
SPEAKER_03 (16:27):
I'm entering my dad phase.
Like I don't really I don'tthink my style is gonna change.
So I should probably just buypants that are gonna last for 20
years.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
You're investing in your style today.
SPEAKER_03 (16:36):
They're gonna be a hundred.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
I'm carrying about what they're gonna be in style
tomorrow.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
They're gonna be like$200 pants.
Yeah.
But I've never spent more than$100 on pants.
SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
And so I'm like, okay, well, there's like, is it
worth it?
Is it yeah like is there anotherbrand that offers the same
thing?
So like there was a littlelevel, like not intense
research, but just enoughresearch to say, like, is this
something that actually is as isthe quality as good as they say?
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Yeah.
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Then the other thing that youcan do to put some data behind
it is you can start askingyourself questions.
Okay, um if I'm selling a shoeor um ski gloves or a
(18:13):
supplement, what kind ofquestions do people want
answered before?
If I was just buying this, whatquestions would I want answered
before?
SPEAKER_03 (18:20):
And by the way, it's very easy to do this with AI
now.
Yeah.
You can just ask and I and andfor these types of questions,
ask Google Gemini.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (18:33):
I think Google Gemini has a little bit of a
better network to tap into withthat.
Well, it's also it's also the AIattached to Google.
I think it just gives a littlebetter responses for these types
of uh categories.
But ask it.
Yeah, what kind of questions doconsumers have around this
product?
SPEAKER_00 (18:52):
Yeah.
And then you can go and do akeyword research analysis to
figure out how many how oftenpeople are searching with terms
or words in that realm.
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
To understand what kind of capacity you have to
win.
SPEAKER_03 (19:08):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
And experience the incrementality that Google can
bring you.
SPEAKER_03 (19:12):
So that's that's like the research, right?
So you have these three phases.
SPEAKER_00 (19:15):
Can I add one more?
SPEAKER_03 (19:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Let me add just one more.
The other thing that you can dois you can do research through
post-purchase surveys to figureout what the actual journey of a
customer is.
So, like if you're on thisin-between phase where you're
like, I just don't know.
And where did you first hearabout me?
Yeah.
You can start to say, you know,for example, let's take golf
(19:37):
bags.
How long have you been lookingfor a golf bag?
Where did you go to discovermore about golf bags?
When did you hear about us?
Why did you decide to pick usversus somebody else?
And how long were you doing thisfor?
That right like those fivequestions right there give you
an entire like pretty much theentire customer journey.
SPEAKER_03 (19:57):
And if you only have room for one question or two,
ask how long?
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
How long you've been searching and what platforms
you're using.
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
And what platforms you're using.
SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
And do multiple choice on the what platforms.
SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
Yeah.
Right.
That's that will give you yourbuyer journey.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
And then because people, again, going back to the
buyer journey, it's not a linearyeah.
It's not a linear path anymore.
Like people are going back andforth between channels.
Like people are on TikTok andthey're on Instagram and then
they're searching.
And then so it's a cyclicalthing.
Totally.
That isn't a linear path.
So give them the option toselect multiple channels, like
Trevor said.
(20:36):
And then understand if somebody,if your average duration of
people knowing about thisproduct or researching the
product is three months, sixmonths, then you know, okay,
this is a we're a researchproduct.
Like we are, we are a productthat needs to, or we're a
company that needs to investheavily into answering research
(20:59):
phase questions.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
Or if, or if on the flip side, whether it's that
long or shorter.
SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
Or if it's seven days.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
But if you're getting people who are saying
Google is the number one placeI'm searching.
SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
Then boom.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
Right?
Because some searches might justsome so for example, things that
are at a lower price point, butyou want to search the right
one.
Let's take a greens product.
A greens product is$30 to$75.
That can be an impulse buy.
Yes.
Right?
That can be a seven-day buywindow.
But there might be some researchthat goes into it.
SPEAKER_03 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:32):
Right.
So that's why you want to lookat time and channel platforms.
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
So love it.
So you have research, which isreally top funnel.
Okay.
You have people just searchingdirectly for whatever the
product is.
Like if you sell floral dresses,people are searching floral
dresses, right?
And then you have what arecalled long tail, but and then
you have people searching foryour brand.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:59):
So you have people searching for the product, you
have product categories, right?
Or or verticals, and then youhave research.
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Yeah.
So so let's give them like areal life example.
Someone typing in Nike.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
So Nike's a brand search.
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (22:14):
So running shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Yeah, running shoes.
That's their product.
SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
That's the product that they have.
SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
Yep.
And then somebody typing inrunning shoes for trail running.
SPEAKER_03 (22:24):
Trail running shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
Shoes for men.
Are these long-tailed?
SPEAKER_03 (22:30):
More long-tail, like that's a product, but also like
a category.
Trail running is a category.
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (22:36):
And then you have what kind of shoes should I have
for trail running?
SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
Yes.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (22:43):
There's your research.
There's some some ideas.
But going back to these kinds ofthese kinds of brands that we've
run into where we're seeing alot of incremental growth out of
Google.
Um, and in these four companies,the only place we have put
additional budget is in Google.
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:04):
And the reason being is because their total
addressable market and thedemand capture for these product
categories and these products ismassive.
It's massive and totallyuntapped.
They're spending, you know, I'mjust gonna give you guys like a
I'm making these numbers up justto give you the ratios.
If they're spending 100 grand amonth, they were spending five
(23:27):
to ten grand in Google, wherenow they're spending 40 to 50
grand in Google.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
And what that allows you to do, the the beauty of
like so like what Mark said isAnd this is not brand.
SPEAKER_03 (23:42):
Yeah.
I want to emphasize that.
This is not on brand searches,this is on product, product
category, and research phase.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Yes.
And and what Mark is saying isso for a lot of you brands, you
have growth opportunity inGoogle that may hit a point.
Right?
Yes.
Once you start capturing thedemand that is existing that
you're not going after,eventually Google will start to
(24:12):
hit a somewhat of a wall.
Right?
We're not we're not saying it'sthen you never spend.
SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Again, because it's demand capture.
There's only so much demand fora certain product or product
category.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
But right now what we're seeing is is when
somebody's wanting to increasebudgets because things are going
well, or sometimes when thingsaren't going well, but they just
need to make up more money,right?
You're seeing it on the metaside because the end platform
looks great or whatever.
When what you could be doing isyou could be significantly more
efficient in gathering up stuffthat's just waiting to be
(24:49):
gathered, or that yourcompetitors are gathering
without your competition in theway.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
Um, so there's just great opportunity for you to
reap what's been sowed downhere.
SPEAKER_03 (25:04):
And also push people into the meta funnel.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (25:08):
So it's both, it goes both ways in Google, and
that's the beauty of it is forif you go up to the research
phase.
So let's let's talk about why inthis one brand we're now
spending 40% of their budget inis now in Google when it was
five, 10%.
Yeah.
And the reason why is becausethe campaigns that are scaling
(25:33):
in Google are pushing people atthe very beginning of their
product discovery phase to thisbrand.
They're now getting retargetedand pushed into a meta funnel.
Okay.
And so now we we've we'vecaptured them on both ends.
Like, hey, we're the firstcompany that they know about
(25:53):
when they're searching for thesethings.
And now they're gettingreintroduced.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Now they're getting testimonials and user-generated
content and on meta and on meta.
SPEAKER_03 (26:02):
And now, if they search again on Google, we're
there again.
So like we're we're capturingthis repeated touch points of
this buyer cycle.
And so even though we've seen inthis company, there's a few of
these campaigns, they don't havegreat row as at all.
They don't even look likethey're doing anything.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Yeah.
In platform.
SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
In platform.
Doesn't look like much.
But what we are seeing, to justvalidate your point, is we're
seeing meta performanceincrease.
Get better.
And we're seeing overall newcustomer acquisition increase.
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (26:39):
In a very relative way with budget increase.
Absolutely.
Like as we've increased budget,like we're now hitting our best
new customer days of the year inOctober, by the way, which is
supposed to be a down month.
A notoriously inefficient month.
So a few of these brands arehaving their best new customer
acquisition months in October ofthe entire year.
(27:02):
And that's not just looking atROI totals.
Yeah.
Going into November, which issupposed to, you know, usually
you see a pretty big harddecline in efficiencies in
October.
And you should becauseNovember's around the corner.
People are expecting deals.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (27:19):
But if you're hitting people in the demand
capture, it's because they needit or want it sooner.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (27:24):
And so it's it's uh it's a very synergistic or
synergistic relationship withmeta.
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Yeah.
And we're not saying by anymeans to necessarily take all
your money away from meta andput it in there.
SPEAKER_03 (27:37):
We're just saying start to No, in these
situations, we have notdecreased budget in Meta.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
You're just increasing over on the Google
side of it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:46):
We're just increasing Google.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Yeah, I want to get that.
I wanted to get that point outbecause then there's a lot of
people who are like, well, howare you generating more demand?
And so you're gonna getquestions like that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
So um and meta will likely be the biggest spender
still for these companies.
It's just you're trying to findthe right balance and levers.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
Especially when you haven't been spending the way
you should in Google, right?
Because your initial right, youlike you said, with this brand
that we took on, you know, thesebrands who have who are not
investing in Google, where itwas a 90 10 or 80-20 kind of
relationship, we're now seeing60-40, 50-50-ish.
Eventually that will start tothe gap might start to get a
(28:25):
little bit bigger again.
And instead of it being 50-50,um, it might be more like 70-30.
SPEAKER_03 (28:31):
Yeah, here's like a great example of this would be,
and I'd be really interested tohear how they did it.
But if you go to like a ridgewallet, I'm using them because
that like a lot of people in theD2C space, you know who they
are.
They're they're big.
They're uh Sean, the CEO, isgreat at sharing information on
Twitter for the D2C community.
(28:51):
Um, but they're a great exampleof a brand that in the early
stages, it's like people aresearching for wallets.
Yeah.
But eventually you get to thisspot where, of course, meta's
gonna continue to increase whereGoogle won't be able to
increase.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (29:09):
So at the beginning, you could maybe be 50-50 or
60-40 or 70-30.
Yes.
But eventually, depending on howbig you you get, you're you're
gonna be capturing so much ofthat demand, and there's only so
much demand to capture on Googlethat it's gonna start separating
again.
SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Of course.
Yeah.
I mean, I I remember I had aboss one time.
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
But if you're listening to this podcast, my
guess is you're not doing ninefigures.
SPEAKER_00 (29:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's probably if you'renot in that situation, you know,
but yeah, totally.
I mean, I remember having a bosswhen we were doing like the
brand was doing like 250million.
And I remember him always beinglike, Trevor, we need to spend
more on Google.
Like, get us more on Google,it's the best return.
It's like I can only spend basedoff of what people are
(29:59):
searching.
Like we have like we we have tobe capturing, we have to be
creating more demand in orderfor that to happen, you know.
So like like Mark said,eventually it starts to, it is
going to separate, right?
SPEAKER_03 (30:09):
And the other problem with Google that you'll
run into is it in P Max or injust regular search campaigns is
spending money on on searchkeywords that will not provide
you any value.
Yes.
So it's not all rainbows andsunshine.
No, no, no.
(30:29):
Like there is a there's a deepstrategy that goes into making
Google work.
I just want to emphasize that.
So like don't go running in andjust throw a ton of butt money
into a P Max campaign.
You have to know the strategiesand what to do.
Yeah, there's a But you shouldbe aware if you're if you're if
you're an owner or if you're inmarketing or director in this
(30:50):
category, that I would bewilling to bet that a lot of
people are undervaluing and notappreciating what Google could
actually do for their business.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
Yeah.
And some of it might be thatthey, hey, hey, Trevor or Mark,
we tried to do this and itdidn't work for us.
And that could be leaning intothe point you just made, which
is there's an art to it as well.
Right.
We are we have experienced thiswhere, you know, we're working
with an appliance company andhave found that the category of
(31:24):
appliances for residential, thesearch terms seem very like, oh
yeah, that would be a greatsearch.
It seems straightforward to bidon.
But what we're starting to findis, oh, this seems almost more
like somebody who's looking forsomething from a restaurant or
more commercial perspective.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
And then Google's pushing more money into that
because it's because they'reclicking.
Because people are clicking, butit's not converting the right
intent.
SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
Because they're realizing, oh, this is meant for
a home.
Yes.
Not to be on for 24 hours a dayserving.
150 people, you know, an hour.
So so that's what Mark is sayingabout, you know, you don't just
want to set it and forget it andassume that it's working.
SPEAKER_03 (32:09):
So if you fit in the case, you will go through a f
you will go through what we callthe filter phase.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Totally, where you feel like you're wasting money.
SPEAKER_03 (32:15):
Like either you can use an H refs or a SEO rush or
SEM rush.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
SEM rush, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
And it'll give you some, it'll give you a really
good starting point, and thoseare great tools to use if you
want to avoid the filter phase.
But we have found that the bestthing is just to embrace the
filter phase.
Like you do your keywordresearch, you have your
categories, but like you justhave to diligently go through
and find where you think theintent was and where the
(32:44):
misinterpretation of people'sintent is.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
You think it's obvious and itnever is.
It's it's bizarre, but you'llfind in Google, oh, uh let's
just take like let's just take acell phone, right?
Like you'll put in these termsand then you'll see terms that
pop up like cell phone cleaner.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (33:07):
Yep.
It's like what?
I'm selling an iPhone.
Why is it like why?
And now I'm people who aresearching for a cleaner are
clicking on my ads.
Yeah.
That's that's the kind of stuffthat will happen with PMAX and
these AI and and just auto-runcampaigns, which are going to be
a lot what a lot of people do atthe beginning.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:25):
So you just have to be very careful about what your
negative keywords are.
SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:29):
And your intents.
And once you do that through thefilter phase, that's when you
start seeing that incrementalresults where you're like, okay,
we know we're getting the rightsearches.
We're capturing them, dependingon where they are in in the
cycle.
Is it a research phase?
Is it product categories ofproduct?
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:50):
And are we getting these people to come back and
buy?
SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
Yeah.
And then continue to run that uhthose surveys.
And as you start to and see ifyou start to see your Google
slash YouTube, people are sayingthey this is how I'm discovering
you starts to increase.
SPEAKER_03 (34:08):
And then the last bit of advice is when you are
leaning into Google a littlemore, not abandoning Meta.
SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (34:19):
But leaning into Google more and taking advantage
of what's there.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Um And that's not can I say something really
quick?
SPEAKER_03 (34:25):
Yeah, let me just finish this phase though.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:28):
Fa phrase, phase, phrase.
Comment.
Sorry guys.
When you're on a roof for threedays and sleeping like six
hours, I guess.
It's hard to think.
Um I just want to emphasize thatuh messed you up.
You want clean metadata.
SPEAKER_00 (34:52):
Meta data, not talking about meta the platform.
SPEAKER_03 (34:55):
Not meta the platform.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (34:57):
You want clean metadata in your catalogs and on
your pages.
And I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
We're not saying that don't also continue to
increase your meta spend too.
SPEAKER_03 (35:06):
That's not it.
Yeah, we're not saying that.
SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
We're not saying take it away.
We're also not saying onlyincrease this.
Evaluate the performance isworking.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (35:14):
With these particular companies, it just
happened to be four of them in arow.
In a row.
Yeah.
It was it's bizarre.
SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
Well, and we're seeing it with other clients too
that we're working with.
Yes.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
Just bigger opportunities.
It was just bigger opportunityjust to go straight into there
right away.
And sometimes it's better tohold things constant.
So Yeah.
So when you because when you'respending and you're just
increasing all over the placeand you're not measuring it the
right way, sometimes it's alittle harder.
For sure.
You can, and you can use thingslike North Beam and you can, you
(35:44):
know, there's there's tools.
But sometimes we like to,depending on levels of spend,
just be like, let's just holdmeta for two weeks, increase
here.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:54):
You know, go in go in staggered results.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
Yeah, we're kind of in this.
I actually think we need to doanother podcast.
Maybe this is what we do nextweek.
Our very first podcast episodewe did was um called The
Marketing Apocalypse.
Do you remember?
Yeah.
Well, well, I take that back.
Maybe our very first podcast waslike an introduction.
That was iOS 14.
(36:17):
You know, like a five-minutepodcast.
But the actual legitimate one,it was called the Marketing
Apocalypse.
We did it a few months after iOS14.5 changed.
Yeah.
And the purpose of that waslike, look how far we've become
and look how little tools arehelping us.
Was kind of the concept.
SPEAKER_03 (36:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was like there's a tool foreverything, but like none of the
tools were helping.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah.
And what's crazy is like notonly has that episode been so
true, like it's, it's, it's, uh,it's aged very well, is what I
should say.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Yeah, I think it has.
SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
It's probably even more relevant now for exactly
what you just said.
You know, we get people all thetime like, well, my triple L is
saying this.
And it's like, we, we, we listento it, and all of a sudden sales
tank.
SPEAKER_03 (37:09):
And again, and this isn't this isn't a knock on
triple.
No, no, no, not at all.
It's it's a knock on how to readyour speedometer.
Yeah, well, and it's just a it'sjust a like we've used this
metaphor before, but it's likeyour ROAS is just one measure on
your speedometer, like your yourdashboard.
SPEAKER_02 (37:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (37:29):
Like it's it's a measure, and that's great.
But like on a car, like you'relooking at your dash, and it's
like, okay, I've got myodometer, my speedometer, I've
got my RPMs.
SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (37:42):
Like my RPMs, if all I'm doing is staring at my RPM,
which is an efficiency typemetric for your car, and I'm
just holding it at 2,000 all thetime.
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Maybe I'm not gonna get to my destination in time.
SPEAKER_03 (37:56):
Like, is that really what you need to be paying
attention to?
But like because you also havespeed limits.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (38:04):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (38:05):
You know, and you have acceleration that you need
to do.
Like you might run into a car.
Like you're gonna be way morelikely to cause more issues if
you can't accelerate the rightway.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
So the the the point is So you can't just get stuck
on a metric like ROAS, even ifit's coming from a place like
triple well, because that's notnecessarily gonna get you to
your destination.
It's one thing to look at,right?
You want things to be constantand like you want to gauge those
things, but like you don't wantto just be like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:33):
Let's do marketing apocalypse part two.
I need a year later next week.
I think that's the podcastepisode.
Part two.
SPEAKER_03 (38:44):
Time to outpace your ROAS.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Four years later.
Yeah, and like in fact, quitefrankly, you might actually want
a lower ROAS.
I think most people should wanta lower ROAS.
But nobody nobody would ever saythat.
That's the hack in life.
No.
If you can have a lower ROAS andwin, you're you win even better.
SPEAKER_03 (39:04):
Well, yeah, because it goes back to marketing 101
that people have known since the20s.
It's just touch points andreach.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
I like it.
Okay.
Let's end there.
Sorry we were gone for so long.
I'm not sorry, but we're sorryfor you guys.
We love and respect you guys,but we were just busy.
SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
So it was very busy.
SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
Yeah.
Alright.
We'll see you guys later nextweek.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Unstoppable Marketer
Podcast.
Please go rate and subscribe tothe podcast.
Whether it's good or bad, wewant to hear from you because we
always want to make this podcastbetter.
If you want to get in touch withme or give me any direct
feedback, please go follow meand get in touch with me.
(39:54):
I am at the Trevor Crump on bothInstagram and TikTok.
Thank you, and we will see younext week.
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