July 6, 2023 • 23 mins
Ever wonder how a world-class executive coach can transform your leadership style and accelerate the potential of your business? Hold on to your headphones because today we're diving deep into the intricate world of executive coaching with Jacquelyn Lane, a member of 100 Coaches - the exclusive community of top-tier leaders, thought influencers and executive coaches, founded by globally renowned coach Marshall Goldsmith. We'll guide you on how to find that perfect match for an executive coach and unravel the art and science that goes behind this critical decision. Plus, we put a spotlight on the call for additional support for women aiming for the top tier in leadership.
We're going a step further, as Jacqueline shares the four key dimensions of coachability - feedback, accountability, action, and change - and their association with the intriguing concept of being 'uncoachable.' We'll discover why it's essential to consult with multiple coaches before making your choice and the pivotal questions you need to ask in the process. Ever wondered about the value of investing in a coach for your company's results, retaining leaders, and helping employees realize their maximum potential? Stick around as we share success stories of leaders whose receptiveness to coaching led to extraordinary business transformations. Get ready for an insightful discussion that promises to help leaders and companies reach their zenith!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Recruiting Daily's Use Case Podcast, a
show dedicated to thestorytelling that happens or
should happen when practitionerspurchase technology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Here's your host, WilliamTincup.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is William Tincup and you're listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Jacqueline onfrom 100 Coaches and we'll be
learning about the Use Case,business Case, etc.
for 100 Coaches.
So, while we start withintroductions, jacqueline, would
you do us a favor and introduceyourself and 100 Coaches?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much, william.
It's a pleasure to be here.
100 Coaches was started aboutseven years ago by a man named
Marshall Goldsmith, who'sglobally recognized as the
number one executive coach.
He invented most of the methodsthat are now used for executive
coaching about four decades ago,and so, even if you don't know
Marshall, you may be aware ofsome of his methods.
(01:05):
If you're aware of things likethe 360 process or
stakeholder-centered coaching orsome of the most commonly used
methods, or you might have readhis books what got you here
won't get you there or triggers,or some of the other New York
Times bestsellers.
So Marshall, seven years ago,decided that he wanted to teach
15 people everything that heknew and it was a pay-it-forward
project And around that time,he created a video on LinkedIn
(01:29):
and encouraged people to apply,and over 12,000 people applied.
Now over 20,000 people haveapplied to be a part of this
community and to learn fromMarshall and learn Marshall's
methods, and now I guess it'sbeen seven years and we now have
around 400 members total.
So, of course, 100 is now adenotation of quality rather
than of quantity.
(01:49):
This is a community of topthought leaders, executive
coaches and executives, and now,on top of that, we've created
the 100 Coaches Agency and weexist quite simply because it's
hard to find an executive coach,especially at the highest
levels, and companies actuallywere starting to approach us
several years ago and asking ifwe might be able to make those
(02:10):
recommendations for them,because it's a fragmented market
and difficult to navigateMarshall MR Especially at that
level right.
Christina A.
Oh, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Marshall M.
I've always wondered about thisWhat's the hardest with
executive coaching?
the highest level, the board,c-suite, etc.
vice presidents, etc.
what's the barrier?
What's the hardest thing to thealgebra?
whatever you're figuring out tomake that a great match for
both the coach as well as theperson being coached.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, it's such a wonderful question And the
answer is that's more.
It's both an art and a science,right?
There's something about thefeel and the fit that's really
important.
We have seen this many timeswhere just because someone is a
great coach doesn't necessarilymean that they're a great coach
(03:04):
for you, and so finding thatright equation is where we see
sparks fly, and so, of course,it's based upon some level of
past experience and similarunderstanding, maybe a subject
matter expertise, that some ofthose harder skills or things
you might see on someone'sresume that say why these two
(03:25):
people would be good for oneanother and might collaborate
well together.
But then there's also thesofter side that we're looking
at, which is maybe a personalityor some other kind of
intangible feeling that we getwhen it comes from knowing two
people and being in relationshipwith two people.
So I wish there was some secretformula.
There's not.
We know that it's worthshooting for that great match.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's like a lot of things.
It depends, right, But I lovethe way you said, because a
great coach doesn't necessarilymean a great coach for you.
Have you?
this is probably a dumbquestion, but bear with me.
Do men and women need differentthings from coaches?
Again, dumb question alertbecause I don't know, especially
(04:08):
at that level.
I don't know if there's thatmuch difference or if it's
really different at theexecutive level, Or if men and
women basically they need thesame things and need coaches
that can help them with the samethings, or if their needs are
different.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That's such a good question.
Thank you for asking that.
After now, having talked toseveral hundred executives over
the course of the last severalyears and being really involved
with this curation and matchingprocess myself, there are some
trends and things that start toemerge.
One thing that's interesting is, of course, that higher up the
(04:44):
leader is in an organization,the less likely they are to be a
woman.
That's just based on my ownobservation, and so if there are
fewer women reaching thoselevels, it says that their
experience is a little differentbecause they're becoming more
and more a minority as they rise.
But additionally, there arewomen at those slightly lower
levels that are trying to reachthe highest levels And of course
(05:07):
, their needs are potentially alittle bit different because
they're charting unchartedterritory, and so it makes
perfect sense that they wouldneed some additional support.
But I would say, in general,it's hard to make
generalizations between men andwomen, because each individual
is really different and theirsituation is different and their
company culture is different,and so there is still a lot of
(05:29):
variability even within each ofthose categories.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Again, we said that there was less women at that
level.
Are there less coaches?
Are there less female coaches?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Oh, less female coaches at the highest level?
Yeah, So, that's a reallyinteresting question as well.
So the coaching industryactually is skewed more heavily
towards women.
There are more female coachesthan male coaches, but at the
very highest levels, i would say.
Yes, there do tend to be, in myobservation, more men coaching
(06:03):
at the very highest levels, butthat is something we're really
trying to shift in our work with100 coaches as well, and we do
think there are a lot of reallyamazing female coaches that are
coaching at the very highestlevel.
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's interesting that the people that need the
coaching and, again, like mywife, works in a male-dominated
space, a little architecture.
She actually, if you were totalk to her about it, she
actually does better with menthan she does with women.
So if she were to have anexecutive coach, she'd probably
(06:38):
pick a male, not a female, whichI don't know what's going on
there.
But so I guess it all comesdown to what do you need as a, i
say, mentee or coachee?
What do you need to then figureout how to let me rephrase How
does someone like on the?
what do you call them coachees?
What do you call them?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, you could call them a coachee or a client
client.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Okay, on the client side It's easier, because
coachee just leads me to a bunchof different places.
So, on the client side, how dowe figure out what they need?
Because, because there's adifference between what they
perceive that they need, or Iwould assume that there's a
difference between what theyperceive that they need from
coaching and what they actuallyneed from coaching.
So tear that apart, if I've gotthat wrong.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No, you're great man, you're the perfect person to
talk to, because that's it'sreally interesting to hear what
people express and When you readinto it and see the patterns,
or even talk to someone's HRleader.
But the HR leader says that theyneed is different than
sometimes what that executivesays that they need, and so your
right perception does come intoplay here.
And so, to go back just brieflyto the difference between men
(07:47):
and women coaching at thehighest levels, for example,
some executives think, oh, ineed someone who's been in my
shoes, been an executivethemselves and can advise me on
the situations that I'm facing.
And, of course, if that's whatyou're looking for, if there
have been more male executiveswho have turned coaches, now
you're looking at a primarilymale pool of coaches rather than
(08:09):
at some of the female coacheswho actually may be better at
helping you navigate Theinterpersonal dynamics and
relations at those very highestlevels.
That will, that will then helpyou get to that next level And
so that actually we mightactually try to show you a very
talented female coach at thehighest level Who can help you
in those areas.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Do they do it?
Do they do an assessment Thathow we?
is there an inventory or a wayto figure out what they need?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, each company is different.
Now some companies do havereally clear leadership
competencies and behaviors thatthey're Assessing people on.
A lot of companies It's now farmore common to use 360
assessments of various types.
Sometimes those can be surveysand sometimes those can be based
on live interviews.
But in any case, people arerecognizing that lots of
(08:58):
dimensions start to give us alittle bit more color, and so
sometimes companies come to uswith having done a lot of that
pre-work and assessment andunderstanding what their
executives really need, andsometimes they say we don't know
.
We're very open, can you guideus?
and that's.
Both of those cases work reallywell.
It's just slightly different.
It's just different styles anddifferent ways of doing things.
(09:19):
But if we the way we do it at100 Coaches agency is, we like
to have a 30 minute call witheither an HR leader or an
executive And just talk throughthings with them, ask them some
questions, at this point, havingtalked to several hundred
executives, we can start to seepatterns that other people may
not be able to see.
And again, like you said toWilliam, it's really interesting
to then hear what they perceivethey need and then to be able
(09:42):
to peel back one layer behindthat And apply a little bit of
our own judgment about what wethink they might actually really
need, and we try to give themat least three options of
coaches that are qualified butmight show them a slightly
different flavor of Coaching andmaybe even have a slightly
different area of expertise.
And then it's important forthem to have those calls and,
(10:03):
together with the coach, they'lltalk about some of the coaches,
will each have a conversationwith them and share some of
their perceptions and Make somesuggestions for areas for growth
, and then the leader willdecide which one is really the
right fit for them.
And I think it's reallyimportant that leader makes the
final call and feels ownershipover their decision.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So, when we get it right, what does that look like?
Do we have analytics?
or everyone's going to ask likeROI and things like that.
But basically there's threeways a relationship could
possibly work out between aclient and a coach.
It really works out, it doesn'twork out, it's neutral, and so
let's do both.
(10:44):
Let's do both the kind of thepolarities of okay, we know it
worked out, what does that looklike?
And how does that get expressedback to the folks that are
paying for this?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
This is a great question And there's constant
new growth in the area ofmeasuring coaching outcomes And
that's something that we look ata lot at the agency.
And again, it's hard to makesweeping generalizations because
each situation is different.
So for a sales leader, forexample, it's very clear to see
(11:15):
whether or not they've beensuccessful.
If the goal, let's say, was toincrease their business unit's
productivity or grow their sales, you can see those numbers
quite clearly.
But if someone's in a rolethat's more a value enabler role
, you have to get a little bitmore creative with some of those
metrics.
And that's the same as we seein assessments at end of your
(11:35):
performance reviews and the like.
So figuring out what thoseassessments and what those
metrics are going to be is areally important step in
coaching, and that usuallyhappens within the first month.
A good coach will help a leaderget really clear about figuring
out what those metrics are andthen really systematically
addressing those so that you'reright at the end of six months
(11:56):
or a year you can say veryclearly we have met our goals.
So for some people that mightbe yes, like a certain business
unit metric or certain number oftickets closed, or whatever the
case may be.
For some people, it's gettingto the next level.
They want to get a promotion orthey're being considered for
succession to a C-suite or CEOrole, and so whether or not they
(12:16):
get that role is a sign ofsuccess.
For other people entrepreneursthey're looking to raise funding
or have a successful exit, andso looking at some of those
metrics becomes really important.
There's no hard and fast rules.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
No, and every client's company needs something
different.
Every client needs somethingdifferent, because they might
not think it's, they might, theymight think it's going
swimmingly And maybe there'ssome room for improvement, et
cetera.
Then let's go to the oppositeside.
Okay, when a match doesn't work, how do we know that a match
does not work, that a client andcoach just not to put blame
(12:53):
anywhere.
It's just sometimes thesethings with best intentions that
just don't work out as well aswe thought they would.
So when that happens, what dowe?
how do we adjust?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yes, absolutely.
So I would say the earliestindicator that a mismatch has
occurred is when either eitherthe client or the coach, or both
, are feeling not energized andworking together.
Coaching should really feellike the best part of your week.
(13:24):
Yes, your coach is going to bea healthy challenger.
They're going to push you andmake you a little uncomfortable
in some ways, but you shouldreally enjoy the time together
and be looking forward to thegrowth and the safe space that a
coach provides.
If that's not the case, forwhatever reason, and it starts
to feel more like a chore,that's an early sign that things
(13:44):
may not be working out, andthat could be for a few reasons.
It could be a personalitymismatch, or it could just be
that coaching's not really theright intervention for you at
this time And those.
I think that's an early way tosee.
I would encourage people not towait until six months or a year
has elapsed before you realize,hey, this isn't working out.
I would voice that concern assoon as possible, and a skilled
(14:07):
coach will also be able to guidein that way, whether that's
changing the way that theengagement is structured or
maybe saying, hey, i do thinkit's right for us to go our
separate ways And maybe there'sa better resource out there for
you.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Love it.
So what questions should folksask when we're thinking about
executive coaching Again, thisis probably client and client
company When they're thinkingabout going down the path, maybe
they haven't before and they'venever really invested heavily
into space.
what are the questions thatthey should be asking in the buy
side?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, i think one of the most important things to ask
especially if you're lookingfor a coach on your own and not
working with an agency like 100Coaches Agency is, of course, to
ask about the experience andtrack record of that coach.
You want them to have ademonstrated track record of
success working with leaders atyour level with certain
(15:05):
situations or similar situations, and that's a really good way
to know and have confidence thatthis coach has seen these
things and can guide you throughthose situations as well.
We do think that, of course, itis helpful to work with an
agency who can help essentiallydo a lot of that pre work for
you, and then you don't have tobe as focused on identifying
(15:29):
whether this coach is a goodcoach or just looks like a good
coach.
You can be focused instead onwhat feels like the right fit
for me And again, we recommendspeaking with at least three
different coaches in your coachsearch.
It's much like buying a house.
It's a big investment.
You only do it a few times inyour life And you want to be
able.
You want to be with anexperienced person who can guide
(15:51):
you through that process, butalso you don't want to just buy
the first house.
You want to look around and seewhat the options are and really
get a sense for what's outthere and what feels like the
right home for you, and the sameis true with coaching is.
It ultimately will come down toa feeling, and it is a big
investment, but it is also oneof the best investments
companies can make in helpingtheir talent go further,
(16:14):
creating better results for acompany, retaining their leaders
, and so we do think it's stillreally worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I had a question very quickly, going backwards to
outgrowing a coach or coachoutgrowing a client, because I
guess I could work both waysright.
How does a client deal withthat?
Like they feel like they'vegotten all the advice out of
someone, whether or not it'strue or not.
A lot of this is justperception, right?
So if they perceive thatthey've gotten all the value out
(16:44):
of a particular coach, how dothey move to another, a new
coach?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You ask really great questions, william.
I have to say that, yeah,that's a normal part of the
process.
I think it would be the hopefor most coaches that their
leader that they're working withhas really evolved and grown so
much that they need somethingelse, and so that is part of the
process is being able to saythis has been a really wonderful
(17:11):
engagement, i would say.
Most people find around the oneyear to two year mark tends to
be a time where they feel likethey've exhausted a lot of the
benefit from one resource andthey might be looking for
something different.
They've encountered a newchallenge or a new era of growth
for themselves And so, yeah,they'll be looking for a
different resource.
I've certainly had severalcoaches over the course of my
(17:33):
career as well, and it is anatural part of the process, and
your coach should be someoneyou should feel comfortable
being able to voice those thingswith and shouldn't feel any
hesitation in sharing that.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Some of it's like therapy on some level.
If it's just not the right fit,it's just not the right fit.
You just got to kind of own itand go ahead.
Everyone's got the bestintentions here.
If you feel like you've keepputting that modifier on there,
if you feel like you've outgrown, then just head into it and
talk with folks, as you might oryou might not have.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Exactly And much like therapy.
just because there's one badfit doesn't mean therapy is not
for you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Oh, 100%, i think.
personally, i think therapyshould be mandatory.
But like you get your driver'slicense, you have to go to
therapy period.
End of story.
Or to vote, you have to go totherapy period.
End of story.
Favorite customer story withoutbrands or names or anything
like that, but just somethingwhere you saw a client that
maybe was struggling withsomething and just you saw a
(18:33):
kind of complete turnaround.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, i'll give if I may.
I have two quick examples.
One example I love the story ofan uncoachable leader, someone
who thinks that they know it alland have been.
The board had enlisted a coachfor someone and he said I don't
need no coach, the board shouldmind their own business.
I'm running this company justfine.
(18:58):
They hired me And the coachsaid the board actually has the
ability to fire you, so he mightwant to listen to what they're
saying.
And that was a light bulbmoment for him And he realized
oh, i do need to get along withthe board, I do need to really
hear what they're saying.
And over the course of the nextyear he had this just profound
transformation, really began tocollaborate well with others and
(19:21):
became very open to the wholecoaching process and achieved
really extraordinary results.
And this is a private equitybacked company And, of course,
they had a very successful exitAnd it was just a really
wonderful success story whereeveryone who worked at that
leader saw the transformation inhim and actually didn't fear
him the way that they used to.
Now they really enjoyed andwere excited to work with him
(19:44):
And I think that's a reallypowerful story.
Another one this one's veryrecent is someone who is already
a very conscious leader runningan amazing company, had seen
that company through thefinancial crisis And they were
looking at having to cutexpenses.
The company was almost on theverge of going under And he
(20:05):
stood up in front of the companyand gave this speech and said
companies can either be likeMary Go Rounds or roller
coasters.
And Mary Go Round is fine, it'ssafe, you know where you are,
you know where you're going.
But this company is about to bea little bit more of a roller
coaster.
We've fallen on hard times withthe financial crisis And it's
going to be a little scary, butwe also believe in what we're
building here No judgment.
(20:25):
We can feel free to leave thecompany and we'll pay your
severance, and that's totallyfine.
But if you want to stay, we'regoing to be reducing everyone's
pay by 25% until we weather thestorm.
Only one person left the company.
The rest stayed and took the25% pay cut for six months And
then again, this leader hadreally galvanized the entire
(20:46):
team through a very challengingsituation, and so this was how
he was naturally just amazingguy.
But he came to us recently andsaid how can I go even further?
What am I not seeing yet?
How can I create an even bettercompany in an even better
environment?
And I think that's the realcoachable.
People realize that they canalways be better, they can
(21:09):
always grow and learn in newways, and I think that's really
amazing too, because this isalready a very talented and
successful leader, and yet herecognizes that with some
coaching support, he'll go evenfurther.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So the phrase uncoachable where does that come
from?
Because I've heard that manytimes.
Like this person is uncoachableIs that they just don't believe
in coaching, they just don'tbelieve in the concept of
coaching, or they don't want tobe vulnerable, because I think
to some degree, client and coachhave to figure that stuff out
(21:42):
on their own.
But you've got to be vulnerable, you've got to actually say
what you don't know, or you'vegot to be able to open to trying
things a different way orlistening to someone else's
experience, which is some of itsvulnerability.
So what makes somebodyuncoachable?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, that's such a great point, william.
That's exactly right.
It's being hesitant to engagein the coaching process.
And I'll mention that ScottOsmond, the president of 100
Coaches, myself and MarshallGoldsmith, who I mentioned
earlier, have all three of ushave just finished writing the
manuscript for a book calledBecoming Coachable, and so we
(22:22):
actually have been exploringthis topic in detail And we've
identified four key dimensionsto coachability, which are
feedback, accountability, actionand change.
And if you're open and willingto embrace all four of those
things, then you're a coachableperson.
And part of the basis for thisis my own experience being a
collegiate rower.
(22:42):
I realized that people who wereuncoachable or didn't take
feedback well, for example,let's say, in the boat didn't go
as far as people who did takefeedback and coaching well.
And what's funny is, even someof those people who were quote
uncoachable or less coachablewere more gifted athletes, but
those more gifted athletesdidn't end up going as far as
(23:03):
people who were less gifted butmore coachable.
And I think the same is true inthe world of executive coaching
, where, if you're willing toengage in that process, it will
change you, it will grow you,You will learn to engage with
feedback in a really healthy way, and so it's worth coming to a
coaching engagement, open andprepared for that process.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Drops mic, walks off stage.
Jacqueline, thank you so much.
I can't wait for your book tocome out.
That sounds fascinating.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Thank you so much.
We're really excited for it.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Absolutely, and thanks everyone for listening.
Until next time.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
You've been listening to Recruiting Daily's Use Case
Podcast.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite platform and hit us up
at recruitingdailycom.
Welcome to Recruiting Daily's Use Case Podcast, a
show dedicated to thestorytelling that happens or
should happen when practitionerspurchase technology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Here's your host, WilliamTincup.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is William Tincup and you're listening to
the Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Jacqueline onfrom 100 Coaches and we'll be
learning about the Use Case,business Case, etc.
for 100 Coaches.
So, while we start withintroductions, jacqueline, would
you do us a favor and introduceyourself and 100 Coaches?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much, william.
It's a pleasure to be here.
100 Coaches was started aboutseven years ago by a man named
Marshall Goldsmith, who'sglobally recognized as the
number one executive coach.
He invented most of the methodsthat are now used for executive
coaching about four decades ago,and so, even if you don't know
Marshall, you may be aware ofsome of his methods.
(01:05):
If you're aware of things likethe 360 process or
stakeholder-centered coaching orsome of the most commonly used
methods, or you might have readhis books what got you here
won't get you there or triggers,or some of the other New York
Times bestsellers.
So Marshall, seven years ago,decided that he wanted to teach
15 people everything that heknew and it was a pay-it-forward
project And around that time,he created a video on LinkedIn
(01:29):
and encouraged people to apply,and over 12,000 people applied.
Now over 20,000 people haveapplied to be a part of this
community and to learn fromMarshall and learn Marshall's
methods, and now I guess it'sbeen seven years and we now have
around 400 members total.
So, of course, 100 is now adenotation of quality rather
than of quantity.
(01:49):
This is a community of topthought leaders, executive
coaches and executives, and now,on top of that, we've created
the 100 Coaches Agency and weexist quite simply because it's
hard to find an executive coach,especially at the highest
levels, and companies actuallywere starting to approach us
several years ago and asking ifwe might be able to make those
(02:10):
recommendations for them,because it's a fragmented market
and difficult to navigateMarshall MR Especially at that
level right.
Christina A.
Oh, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Marshall M.
I've always wondered about thisWhat's the hardest with
executive coaching?
the highest level, the board,c-suite, etc.
vice presidents, etc.
what's the barrier?
What's the hardest thing to thealgebra?
whatever you're figuring out tomake that a great match for
both the coach as well as theperson being coached.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, it's such a wonderful question And the
answer is that's more.
It's both an art and a science,right?
There's something about thefeel and the fit that's really
important.
We have seen this many timeswhere just because someone is a
great coach doesn't necessarilymean that they're a great coach
(03:04):
for you, and so finding thatright equation is where we see
sparks fly, and so, of course,it's based upon some level of
past experience and similarunderstanding, maybe a subject
matter expertise, that some ofthose harder skills or things
you might see on someone'sresume that say why these two
(03:25):
people would be good for oneanother and might collaborate
well together.
But then there's also thesofter side that we're looking
at, which is maybe a personalityor some other kind of
intangible feeling that we getwhen it comes from knowing two
people and being in relationshipwith two people.
So I wish there was some secretformula.
There's not.
We know that it's worthshooting for that great match.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's like a lot of things.
It depends, right, But I lovethe way you said, because a
great coach doesn't necessarilymean a great coach for you.
Have you?
this is probably a dumbquestion, but bear with me.
Do men and women need differentthings from coaches?
Again, dumb question alertbecause I don't know, especially
(04:08):
at that level.
I don't know if there's thatmuch difference or if it's
really different at theexecutive level, Or if men and
women basically they need thesame things and need coaches
that can help them with the samethings, or if their needs are
different.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That's such a good question.
Thank you for asking that.
After now, having talked toseveral hundred executives over
the course of the last severalyears and being really involved
with this curation and matchingprocess myself, there are some
trends and things that start toemerge.
One thing that's interesting is, of course, that higher up the
(04:44):
leader is in an organization,the less likely they are to be a
woman.
That's just based on my ownobservation, and so if there are
fewer women reaching thoselevels, it says that their
experience is a little differentbecause they're becoming more
and more a minority as they rise.
But additionally, there arewomen at those slightly lower
levels that are trying to reachthe highest levels And of course
(05:07):
, their needs are potentially alittle bit different because
they're charting unchartedterritory, and so it makes
perfect sense that they wouldneed some additional support.
But I would say, in general,it's hard to make
generalizations between men andwomen, because each individual
is really different and theirsituation is different and their
company culture is different,and so there is still a lot of
(05:29):
variability even within each ofthose categories.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Again, we said that there was less women at that
level.
Are there less coaches?
Are there less female coaches?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Oh, less female coaches at the highest level?
Yeah, So, that's a reallyinteresting question as well.
So the coaching industryactually is skewed more heavily
towards women.
There are more female coachesthan male coaches, but at the
very highest levels, i would say.
Yes, there do tend to be, in myobservation, more men coaching
(06:03):
at the very highest levels, butthat is something we're really
trying to shift in our work with100 coaches as well, and we do
think there are a lot of reallyamazing female coaches that are
coaching at the very highestlevel.
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's interesting that the people that need the
coaching and, again, like mywife, works in a male-dominated
space, a little architecture.
She actually, if you were totalk to her about it, she
actually does better with menthan she does with women.
So if she were to have anexecutive coach, she'd probably
(06:38):
pick a male, not a female, whichI don't know what's going on
there.
But so I guess it all comesdown to what do you need as a, i
say, mentee or coachee?
What do you need to then figureout how to let me rephrase How
does someone like on the?
what do you call them coachees?
What do you call them?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, you could call them a coachee or a client
client.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Okay, on the client side It's easier, because
coachee just leads me to a bunchof different places.
So, on the client side, how dowe figure out what they need?
Because, because there's adifference between what they
perceive that they need, or Iwould assume that there's a
difference between what theyperceive that they need from
coaching and what they actuallyneed from coaching.
So tear that apart, if I've gotthat wrong.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No, you're great man, you're the perfect person to
talk to, because that's it'sreally interesting to hear what
people express and When you readinto it and see the patterns,
or even talk to someone's HRleader.
But the HR leader says that theyneed is different than
sometimes what that executivesays that they need, and so your
right perception does come intoplay here.
And so, to go back just brieflyto the difference between men
(07:47):
and women coaching at thehighest levels, for example,
some executives think, oh, ineed someone who's been in my
shoes, been an executivethemselves and can advise me on
the situations that I'm facing.
And, of course, if that's whatyou're looking for, if there
have been more male executiveswho have turned coaches, now
you're looking at a primarilymale pool of coaches rather than
(08:09):
at some of the female coacheswho actually may be better at
helping you navigate Theinterpersonal dynamics and
relations at those very highestlevels.
That will, that will then helpyou get to that next level And
so that actually we mightactually try to show you a very
talented female coach at thehighest level Who can help you
in those areas.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Do they do it?
Do they do an assessment Thathow we?
is there an inventory or a wayto figure out what they need?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, each company is different.
Now some companies do havereally clear leadership
competencies and behaviors thatthey're Assessing people on.
A lot of companies It's now farmore common to use 360
assessments of various types.
Sometimes those can be surveysand sometimes those can be based
on live interviews.
But in any case, people arerecognizing that lots of
(08:58):
dimensions start to give us alittle bit more color, and so
sometimes companies come to uswith having done a lot of that
pre-work and assessment andunderstanding what their
executives really need, andsometimes they say we don't know
.
We're very open, can you guideus?
and that's.
Both of those cases work reallywell.
It's just slightly different.
It's just different styles anddifferent ways of doing things.
(09:19):
But if we the way we do it at100 Coaches agency is, we like
to have a 30 minute call witheither an HR leader or an
executive And just talk throughthings with them, ask them some
questions, at this point, havingtalked to several hundred
executives, we can start to seepatterns that other people may
not be able to see.
And again, like you said toWilliam, it's really interesting
to then hear what they perceivethey need and then to be able
(09:42):
to peel back one layer behindthat And apply a little bit of
our own judgment about what wethink they might actually really
need, and we try to give themat least three options of
coaches that are qualified butmight show them a slightly
different flavor of Coaching andmaybe even have a slightly
different area of expertise.
And then it's important forthem to have those calls and,
(10:03):
together with the coach, they'lltalk about some of the coaches,
will each have a conversationwith them and share some of
their perceptions and Make somesuggestions for areas for growth
, and then the leader willdecide which one is really the
right fit for them.
And I think it's reallyimportant that leader makes the
final call and feels ownershipover their decision.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So, when we get it right, what does that look like?
Do we have analytics?
or everyone's going to ask likeROI and things like that.
But basically there's threeways a relationship could
possibly work out between aclient and a coach.
It really works out, it doesn'twork out, it's neutral, and so
let's do both.
(10:44):
Let's do both the kind of thepolarities of okay, we know it
worked out, what does that looklike?
And how does that get expressedback to the folks that are
paying for this?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
This is a great question And there's constant
new growth in the area ofmeasuring coaching outcomes And
that's something that we look ata lot at the agency.
And again, it's hard to makesweeping generalizations because
each situation is different.
So for a sales leader, forexample, it's very clear to see
(11:15):
whether or not they've beensuccessful.
If the goal, let's say, was toincrease their business unit's
productivity or grow their sales, you can see those numbers
quite clearly.
But if someone's in a rolethat's more a value enabler role
, you have to get a little bitmore creative with some of those
metrics.
And that's the same as we seein assessments at end of your
(11:35):
performance reviews and the like.
So figuring out what thoseassessments and what those
metrics are going to be is areally important step in
coaching, and that usuallyhappens within the first month.
A good coach will help a leaderget really clear about figuring
out what those metrics are andthen really systematically
addressing those so that you'reright at the end of six months
(11:56):
or a year you can say veryclearly we have met our goals.
So for some people that mightbe yes, like a certain business
unit metric or certain number oftickets closed, or whatever the
case may be.
For some people, it's gettingto the next level.
They want to get a promotion orthey're being considered for
succession to a C-suite or CEOrole, and so whether or not they
(12:16):
get that role is a sign ofsuccess.
For other people entrepreneursthey're looking to raise funding
or have a successful exit, andso looking at some of those
metrics becomes really important.
There's no hard and fast rules.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
No, and every client's company needs something
different.
Every client needs somethingdifferent, because they might
not think it's, they might, theymight think it's going
swimmingly And maybe there'ssome room for improvement, et
cetera.
Then let's go to the oppositeside.
Okay, when a match doesn't work, how do we know that a match
does not work, that a client andcoach just not to put blame
(12:53):
anywhere.
It's just sometimes thesethings with best intentions that
just don't work out as well aswe thought they would.
So when that happens, what dowe?
how do we adjust?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yes, absolutely.
So I would say the earliestindicator that a mismatch has
occurred is when either eitherthe client or the coach, or both
, are feeling not energized andworking together.
Coaching should really feellike the best part of your week.
(13:24):
Yes, your coach is going to bea healthy challenger.
They're going to push you andmake you a little uncomfortable
in some ways, but you shouldreally enjoy the time together
and be looking forward to thegrowth and the safe space that a
coach provides.
If that's not the case, forwhatever reason, and it starts
to feel more like a chore,that's an early sign that things
(13:44):
may not be working out, andthat could be for a few reasons.
It could be a personalitymismatch, or it could just be
that coaching's not really theright intervention for you at
this time And those.
I think that's an early way tosee.
I would encourage people not towait until six months or a year
has elapsed before you realize,hey, this isn't working out.
I would voice that concern assoon as possible, and a skilled
(14:07):
coach will also be able to guidein that way, whether that's
changing the way that theengagement is structured or
maybe saying, hey, i do thinkit's right for us to go our
separate ways And maybe there'sa better resource out there for
you.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Love it.
So what questions should folksask when we're thinking about
executive coaching Again, thisis probably client and client
company When they're thinkingabout going down the path, maybe
they haven't before and they'venever really invested heavily
into space.
what are the questions thatthey should be asking in the buy
side?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, i think one of the most important things to ask
especially if you're lookingfor a coach on your own and not
working with an agency like 100Coaches Agency is, of course, to
ask about the experience andtrack record of that coach.
You want them to have ademonstrated track record of
success working with leaders atyour level with certain
(15:05):
situations or similar situations, and that's a really good way
to know and have confidence thatthis coach has seen these
things and can guide you throughthose situations as well.
We do think that, of course, itis helpful to work with an
agency who can help essentiallydo a lot of that pre work for
you, and then you don't have tobe as focused on identifying
(15:29):
whether this coach is a goodcoach or just looks like a good
coach.
You can be focused instead onwhat feels like the right fit
for me And again, we recommendspeaking with at least three
different coaches in your coachsearch.
It's much like buying a house.
It's a big investment.
You only do it a few times inyour life And you want to be
able.
You want to be with anexperienced person who can guide
(15:51):
you through that process, butalso you don't want to just buy
the first house.
You want to look around and seewhat the options are and really
get a sense for what's outthere and what feels like the
right home for you, and the sameis true with coaching is.
It ultimately will come down toa feeling, and it is a big
investment, but it is also oneof the best investments
companies can make in helpingtheir talent go further,
(16:14):
creating better results for acompany, retaining their leaders
, and so we do think it's stillreally worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I had a question very quickly, going backwards to
outgrowing a coach or coachoutgrowing a client, because I
guess I could work both waysright.
How does a client deal withthat?
Like they feel like they'vegotten all the advice out of
someone, whether or not it'strue or not.
A lot of this is justperception, right?
So if they perceive thatthey've gotten all the value out
(16:44):
of a particular coach, how dothey move to another, a new
coach?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
You ask really great questions, william.
I have to say that, yeah,that's a normal part of the
process.
I think it would be the hopefor most coaches that their
leader that they're working withhas really evolved and grown so
much that they need somethingelse, and so that is part of the
process is being able to saythis has been a really wonderful
(17:11):
engagement, i would say.
Most people find around the oneyear to two year mark tends to
be a time where they feel likethey've exhausted a lot of the
benefit from one resource andthey might be looking for
something different.
They've encountered a newchallenge or a new era of growth
for themselves And so, yeah,they'll be looking for a
different resource.
I've certainly had severalcoaches over the course of my
(17:33):
career as well, and it is anatural part of the process, and
your coach should be someoneyou should feel comfortable
being able to voice those thingswith and shouldn't feel any
hesitation in sharing that.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Some of it's like therapy on some level.
If it's just not the right fit,it's just not the right fit.
You just got to kind of own itand go ahead.
Everyone's got the bestintentions here.
If you feel like you've keepputting that modifier on there,
if you feel like you've outgrown, then just head into it and
talk with folks, as you might oryou might not have.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Exactly And much like therapy.
just because there's one badfit doesn't mean therapy is not
for you.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Oh, 100%, i think.
personally, i think therapyshould be mandatory.
But like you get your driver'slicense, you have to go to
therapy period.
End of story.
Or to vote, you have to go totherapy period.
End of story.
Favorite customer story withoutbrands or names or anything
like that, but just somethingwhere you saw a client that
maybe was struggling withsomething and just you saw a
(18:33):
kind of complete turnaround.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, i'll give if I may.
I have two quick examples.
One example I love the story ofan uncoachable leader, someone
who thinks that they know it alland have been.
The board had enlisted a coachfor someone and he said I don't
need no coach, the board shouldmind their own business.
I'm running this company justfine.
(18:58):
They hired me And the coachsaid the board actually has the
ability to fire you, so he mightwant to listen to what they're
saying.
And that was a light bulbmoment for him And he realized
oh, i do need to get along withthe board, I do need to really
hear what they're saying.
And over the course of the nextyear he had this just profound
transformation, really began tocollaborate well with others and
(19:21):
became very open to the wholecoaching process and achieved
really extraordinary results.
And this is a private equitybacked company And, of course,
they had a very successful exitAnd it was just a really
wonderful success story whereeveryone who worked at that
leader saw the transformation inhim and actually didn't fear
him the way that they used to.
Now they really enjoyed andwere excited to work with him
(19:44):
And I think that's a reallypowerful story.
Another one this one's veryrecent is someone who is already
a very conscious leader runningan amazing company, had seen
that company through thefinancial crisis And they were
looking at having to cutexpenses.
The company was almost on theverge of going under And he
(20:05):
stood up in front of the companyand gave this speech and said
companies can either be likeMary Go Rounds or roller
coasters.
And Mary Go Round is fine, it'ssafe, you know where you are,
you know where you're going.
But this company is about to bea little bit more of a roller
coaster.
We've fallen on hard times withthe financial crisis And it's
going to be a little scary, butwe also believe in what we're
building here No judgment.
(20:25):
We can feel free to leave thecompany and we'll pay your
severance, and that's totallyfine.
But if you want to stay, we'regoing to be reducing everyone's
pay by 25% until we weather thestorm.
Only one person left the company.
The rest stayed and took the25% pay cut for six months And
then again, this leader hadreally galvanized the entire
(20:46):
team through a very challengingsituation, and so this was how
he was naturally just amazingguy.
But he came to us recently andsaid how can I go even further?
What am I not seeing yet?
How can I create an even bettercompany in an even better
environment?
And I think that's the realcoachable.
People realize that they canalways be better, they can
(21:09):
always grow and learn in newways, and I think that's really
amazing too, because this isalready a very talented and
successful leader, and yet herecognizes that with some
coaching support, he'll go evenfurther.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So the phrase uncoachable where does that come
from?
Because I've heard that manytimes.
Like this person is uncoachableIs that they just don't believe
in coaching, they just don'tbelieve in the concept of
coaching, or they don't want tobe vulnerable, because I think
to some degree, client and coachhave to figure that stuff out
(21:42):
on their own.
But you've got to be vulnerable, you've got to actually say
what you don't know, or you'vegot to be able to open to trying
things a different way orlistening to someone else's
experience, which is some of itsvulnerability.
So what makes somebodyuncoachable?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, that's such a great point, william.
That's exactly right.
It's being hesitant to engagein the coaching process.
And I'll mention that ScottOsmond, the president of 100
Coaches, myself and MarshallGoldsmith, who I mentioned
earlier, have all three of ushave just finished writing the
manuscript for a book calledBecoming Coachable, and so we
(22:22):
actually have been exploringthis topic in detail And we've
identified four key dimensionsto coachability, which are
feedback, accountability, actionand change.
And if you're open and willingto embrace all four of those
things, then you're a coachableperson.
And part of the basis for thisis my own experience being a
collegiate rower.
(22:42):
I realized that people who wereuncoachable or didn't take
feedback well, for example,let's say, in the boat didn't go
as far as people who did takefeedback and coaching well.
And what's funny is, even someof those people who were quote
uncoachable or less coachablewere more gifted athletes, but
those more gifted athletesdidn't end up going as far as
(23:03):
people who were less gifted butmore coachable.
And I think the same is true inthe world of executive coaching
, where, if you're willing toengage in that process, it will
change you, it will grow you,You will learn to engage with
feedback in a really healthy way, and so it's worth coming to a
coaching engagement, open andprepared for that process.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Drops mic, walks off stage.
Jacqueline, thank you so much.
I can't wait for your book tocome out.
That sounds fascinating.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Thank you so much.
We're really excited for it.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Absolutely, and thanks everyone for listening.
Until next time.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
You've been listening to Recruiting Daily's Use Case
Podcast.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite platform and hit us up
at recruitingdailycom.
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