July 27, 2023 • 26 mins
Ever wanted to understand the game-changing power of a skills-first approach to talent development? You're in for a treat! We've got Leah Carr, the CEO of tilr, who has hired between 250-500 people in her career, to share her insights on this transformative concept. Leah talks about her intuitive hiring process and how it has evolved with the integration of data, owing to the digital era we are in.
We don't stop there! Uncover the magic behind tilr's innovative solution that captures a comprehensive understanding of an individual's skills. This is a game-changer in targeted training and aligning employee goals with company needs. Leah also lifts the veil on tilr's team dashboard, which provides leaders with visibility into the impact of training. We also navigate the choppy waters of measuring micro skills and language proficiency, and the revolutionary potential of a skills-first approach to internal mobility, compensation, and succession planning. Did we mention the exciting potential of crypto and the importance of adopting a new language when discussing talent-driven markets? Well, this episode has it all!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Recruiting Daily's Use Case Podcast, a
show dedicated to thestorytelling that happens or
should happen when practitionerspurchase technology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Here's your host, william Tin Cup, ladies and
gentlemen, this is William TinCup and you're listening to the
Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Leah on fromTiller.
We'll be learning about the UseCase, the Business Case that
her practitioners and thecustomers and prospects use to
build for Tiller.
So, Leah, would you do us afavor and introduce yourself and
(00:44):
Tiller?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me on today.
Sure, yeah, so I am the CEO ofa company called Tiller.
We are based out of Toronto andwe have built a skills first
learning and developmentsolution, and what that means is
because we help you understandthe skills of your workforce and
the skills of your roles.
We can deliver much moretargeted training, whether it's
(01:06):
closing skills gaps andupskilling, or it's aligning
your employees' goals to theneeds of the company, so that
you both grow together.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I love that.
So you've always been intechnology, but you haven't
always been in HR per se, butyou've hired a bunch of people,
right?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
That's true.
I think I've probably hired Iwant to say it's somewhere
between 250 and 500 people.
Okay, okay, more than 10.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Got it?
How did you back then, when youwere doing that and you're
still doing that now, withTiller, of course.
But how did you evaluatepeople's skills?
What was your going to go toback then?
What was your go to understandif they were, let's say, a
Python developer, java developer, whatever the bit was?
How did you understand thebreadth and depth of their
skills?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, this probably isn't the right answer.
I've always had it on intuition.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, there's a right answer.
I'd like to know it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I'm just one of.
I'm highly intuitive, it's oneof my skills, and so I have done
almost all my hiring onintuition, but I recognize that
is not how everyone can do theirhiring.
When it comes to technicalskills, I have led technical
teams.
I'm not technical, so you lieon the right people on your team
to do those technicalscreenings.
You can obviously employ toolsto help you with that.
(02:21):
I'm always a big fan of thehuman-to-human interaction and
I've also seen a lot of goodcandidates get screened out of
technical screens.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
See, I'm glad that you admitted intuition, because
I'm also that way, and I thinkyou live in an era now where
you're like, no, it's got to be,everything's got to be, math
oriented, that's it.
I don't know if I believe that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I actually think it's limiting when you're not able
to use intuition, at least to adegree.
I worked in crypto in the earlydays and the people who wanted
to work with us they were sopassionate and the way we hired.
I don't even think we everlooked at a resume.
It was like someone would applyand they would tell us here's
what I want to do, here's what Iknow I can do.
(03:03):
And the resume didn'tnecessarily say they could do
that, which means theirexperience didn't necessarily
show they could do whatever thejob was they're applying for.
But sometimes all people wantis that opportunity to prove
that they can do what they knowthey can do, just because the
resume, the piece of paper,doesn't say it.
And so we hired people and welet them prove it.
(03:23):
We let them be accountable.
Let them.
Maybe that's not the rightphrase.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I don't know I understand what I mean.
I 100%.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, and it created the best culture, where it was a
team environment.
Everyone loved what they weredoing, and I think that this is
what everyone wants.
We want to prove that we can dowhat we know we can do and what
we want to do, and it'sactually one of the best teams
I've ever worked with, becausewe hired in a very
non-traditional way.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I think, especially at the early stages of crypto
who had a master's degree incrypto.
So it's okay.
Who's the expert here?
Obviously, there are people whoare experts, but everyone else
just.
There's a lot of potential, alot of potentiality, and there
are a lot of excitement too.
I think there's still a lot ofexcitement in crypto.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So Skills First, talent Development first of all.
I love all of this because ithelps with so many things.
It proliferates.
I came back from SHRM and itwas exciting from this
perspective.
There were so many people andthere were so many people in the
Expo Hall that the Expo Hallclosed at two on the last day
(04:25):
and they didn't get everyone outof the Expo Hall until five.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It was crazy.
I've never seen anything likeit, quite frankly, and I like
that, and not everybody wasbuying, but there was a lot of
shopping.
There was a lot of people inthere really talking to people,
which I found great, and thiswas something that came up
routinely was okay Skills Firsthiring, of course, like we
talked about, but alsoskills-based everything.
Okay.
Internal mobility has this helpus?
(04:51):
Compensation, succession,everything it leads to, if we
understand skills, it touchesall facets of HR.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's actually crazy if you think about it.
Why have we operated businessesfor so long understanding the
higher people to do but notactually understanding what they
can do?
Doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
We have no excuses.
At one point 100 years ago, youcould say I just have no idea.
There's just no data and I'mreally busy and I can't ask the
people.
Okay, good, fair enough.
But we have plenty of accesspoints, especially data-wise now
where we can actually knowthese things.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Exactly.
We know these things and we'regetting to the point that this
isn't something you can do inExcel, and we talked to a 12,000
person prospect yesterday.
That's how they were doing it.
Excel it's limiting, becauseall they're able to do is
understand a few key skills forevery job family.
They don't know the size ofpeople and we showed them our
(05:51):
product and they were like yes,this is what we want, because-.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
We can't make an Excel spreadsheet this detailed.
I've joked about this all thetime.
Microsoft Office is the largestHR tech company in the world
because people use Word, excel,outlook, some of the other
products as well, teams etc.
If you look at it and Iactually talked to the HR tech
(06:14):
the person runs HR tech forMicrosoft.
I did an analyst briefing withthem at Unleash and I said why
don't you just build it?
It's not playing because wehave no interest in building it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
You're interested.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
She's from Seattle, she's close to you actually.
She just said we have nointerest, zero interest, in
building an HR tech play becausewe have a consumer compact, if
you will, that we don't want toever want our covenant I think
she uses the word we don't everwant to break that.
We want to partner with otherpeople that are building those
things, that are taking thosethings to market.
(06:49):
We have no interest, zerointerest.
I'm like okay, I got thatanswered.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
It's good know what you're good at and you don't
bring in experts and partners.
For the rest, I think it's goodstrategy.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Isn't that interesting, because they could.
I don't know if it would bethat great, but they could build
something.
I want to get into theapplication itself.
Skills first, talentdevelopment.
At one point you got to do sometype of inventory or audit.
How do we know what someone hascurrently, maybe what potential
that they have?
What are we calling nowtangential skills?
(07:23):
Transferable verbal skills?
There's a lot of differentwords that we use to convey the
things that they don't have butcould have.
So take us into the app.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, that's a great starting point and you're right.
The core pieces are we need tounderstand the skills of your
workforce and we have a reallyengaging, easy to use onboarding
and it takes you through a fewsteps.
Step one is we show you theskills for your existing role.
Now we don't show you theproficiency or the importance
they've been ranked because wedon't want people gaining the
(07:52):
system, but we'll show you firstthe skills for your role, then
and so you can click on whichones you have, what your
proficiency is in those skillsWe'll then take you through the
skills that are important to theorganization, because we want
everyone talking the same skillslanguage.
We want to make sure we'renoting which skills people have
that are relevant to the role,and then we'll take you through
(08:15):
job experience, education,volunteer and life experience.
We don't typically think ofourselves as a collection of
skills and we help people dothat, and one of the things
we've done that's so importantis the volunteer and life
experience, because we don't allhave the same networks and
connections, we don't all havethe same opportunities, and it's
really important that we allowpeople to bring their full
(08:36):
selves, to work their wholeexperience so that we can create
more equity and inclusivity.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So skills versus competencies?
Maybe it's not a versus what's,because some folks have grown
up in the world of buildingcompetencies models and I've
never seen I've seen a lot ofpeople try.
I've never actually seen themwork and skills seems to be a
bit more easier to approach.
I don't know why that is.
It probably might be, maybeit's just me, but what's been
(09:03):
your experience with kind ofpeople, how people look at
skills and how people look athistorically looked at
competencies?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, I think one of the things we're seeing is that
some people use theminterchangeably and talking
about competencies when they'reusing skills.
But if we're talking about howwe would view competencies
versus skills, a competencywould be a collection of skills.
It can be easier to drill downto skill level and I think it's
(09:31):
easier for the individualbecause, well, there are a lot
of people who overratethemselves.
There's a lot more people whounderrate themselves, and I
think when you give a competencyand it's higher level, it's a
lot harder to say, yes, I can dothat, whereas when you break
that competency down into 10skills, someone who has eight of
10 may not have giventhemselves the competency, but
you'll know they have the eightskills and so, yeah, and so I
(09:54):
think it can just be an easierway to think of ourselves.
And just a step further ongetting accuracy as proficiency
as another piece of this, yourstandard scale is beginner to
expert.
But what does that mean?
We had a co-op student tell usthey were an expert in coding
language, and when we asked themwhat made them an expert, they
told us well, I'm taking acourse next semester.
Yeah, exactly, there's just,there's no.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No, the jaded part of me is going to go.
I'm just going to say it.
I think that candidate was male.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It was.
It was, of course, and but thisis part of the problem.
Right, you have women who arefrom a pretty deserving groups,
who are under some of itshumility too.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I've also found this, and I know you're Canadian, so
I'll say this to your face.
I've also found this withCanadians as well, and not
regardless of background orgender or the other things that
most Canadian folks thatinteract with are super humble.
You're not going to tell youhow often you're going to be.
Somebody on the other like 40miles south.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You know, someone will say to me like oh, you're a
CEO.
And I'm like oh, yeah, but it'sa small company.
And I'm like why do I keepsaying that You're?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
right, it's just a small company, yeah, something,
or just yeah, yeah, yeah, you'reright we very humble.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah.
And so when it comes tocompetency, we have put a lot of
research into it and we haveclearly defined levels that also
don't have judgment on them.
So instead of saying one tofive, or beginner to expert or
no joke, I saw one that was babychicken to ninja, we actually
say we are, we say I havelearned the skill.
I have not used the skill I canuse the skill with a little bit
of help, Like we've just.
(11:28):
We've made it so much easier tonot over or underrate yourself,
which is super important.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So what you take on the life shelf of our
exploration of a self and of askill, and what I want, what I'm
really trying to figure out myown mind, is this idea, concept
of micro skills, things that youacquire, like every day we're
building something, like we'reusing our mind to do some things
where we're evolving some skillI'm not sure what it is, but
(11:56):
something but also something'sbeing diminished.
I don't mean that in a bad way,just we haven't touched that in
a while, so it's not.
I think skills havehistorically been looked at as
you've achieved them and then,if you don't ever do it again,
you still have that skills.
I struggle personally.
This is my struggle I strugglewith if you haven't touched Java
in, let's say, 10 years, you'reprobably not still at that
(12:18):
level.
Yeah, you could probably rampup pretty quickly, but you're
not quite at that level.
Like, first of all, am I off?
You do this for a living.
So, first of all, you'retotally right.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I think about myself.
I went to French immersion fromgrade one all the way through
to university.
I went to a campus here I have abilingual honors, but I have
not really used my French sinceI'm going to date myself, but
since 2006, essentially, andwhen it's spoken, I can
understand it, I can read it,but if I were to go into a job
(12:49):
and say I'm bilingual, it wouldnot be the truth at this point.
And could I have a refresherand get back up?
Yeah, I've been playing aroundon Duolingo, so I think this is
also part of it is beingself-aware about.
I might have worked inmarketing for the first five
years of my career, but now it'sbeen another 15 years and I
haven't used skills.
Things change, and part of howour platform can pick up on that
(13:12):
is that again, we're breakingit beyond the competency of
marketing down to the actualskills and the skills change.
If you haven't done marketingin 10 years, maybe you don't
know how to use Snapchat orTikTok or one of these tools
that are so popular today, andso you can pick up on some of it
in that way.
But it does require a certaindegree of self-awareness, which
(13:34):
is why we've got your individualproficiency ratings, but then
we're also just about to launchmanager proficiency ratings and
then peer proficiency ratings,so you've got that little bit of
a combo score because it'lljust be that much more accurate
getting the three views in there.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, everyone lacks in training.
So first of all say this aboutexecutives, board members, all
the way throughout.
Like everyone, there's a lackof training for everybody.
But I've keyed in the lastcouple of months on online
managers, mid managers, hiringmanagers, all the folks in the
middle, let's say they don't getany training.
It's just, it's reallyobnoxious.
Like early stage employees,there is some training.
(14:14):
You're about to do a job yeah,we should probably train.
You got it.
But at one point they getpromoted to a level.
Yeah, we just forget that bit,we just.
Janet, you've been promoted.
Great, go do it.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Even your most basic level of training, which is
onboarding, is missing.
I'll tell you, I joined you inan executive level role but the
lack of onboarding and basicthings like tell me what each of
these acronyms mean, I think itaffected my productivity even
two years into that role, whereI wouldn't understand what's
going on in conversation becauseof the way people were speaking
(14:48):
.
So I think basic level ofonboarding is the most important
training when someone'sstarting a role.
But you're right aboutleadership.
When we launch in a company,I'd say eight times out of 10
training leaders is the most orone of the most important
priorities that the company hasto start out with.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So where do we, where does that data?
Where does our data go?
Like we're okay, so the fourwalls will tell her I'm totally
good at it.
But does it impact or does itgive any information or
visibility or insight into otherplatforms?
Does it pull data from otherplatforms?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
We do pull data from other platforms.
So we pull a lot of market dataaround.
Which skills are the currentlet's say, trending skills for
each role?
Because we don't just want toset people up for success in the
present and train them fortheir next career goal.
We want to make sure thatpeople are staying relevant.
There's this corn fairy stat.
I read that they're projecting$8.5 trillion of unrealized
(15:48):
revenue in the US alone in 2030,because companies won't have
the skills they need to compete.
So we're pulling that marketdata.
So on a quarterly basis, youcan go and look at your roles.
We'll recommend skills for yourroles that we're seeing in the
market so you can add them andstart training people and making
sure that you're being moreforward thinking about keeping
the skills you need in yourworkforce and in your company.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Wow, Okay.
So what's the challenge?
Because everything makes senseto me so far.
What's the objection that yoursales team or some of your folks
have?
Once they've talked to somebody, they're showing them software.
Everybody loves it.
Why would they say no?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So I think learning and development is an
interesting space, because, well, we all know that the number
one reason people leave theirjobs is lack of development.
Our answer has been this L&Dperk, which is hey, here's $500
a year, and then people don'tknow what they want.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
They're learning, they're not going to the abyss
of the LMS.
And have fun, that's it.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Someone goes and learns how to play guitar.
They come back and want to playguitar for the company and
you're like, but we don't needsomeone to play guitar.
And then you just createfrustration.
And then you have leadershipand finance who want to cut back
these L&D budgets becausethey're delivering no results,
no retention results, no growthresults, they're just not
getting a return on thatinvestment.
And so it's a big mindset shiftto say, hey, now we're going to
(17:08):
move to this method, we'regoing to be able to do
everything.
So we do often get people whoare like I'm obsessed with this,
I want it.
They try to go sell it toleadership and it seems like a
bigger undertaking than it is,even though, honestly, we've
made it so easy.
And the other objection we arefacing a lot and this is
temporary is HR budgets Likethey are the first to be frozen,
(17:31):
even though in my opinion theyshould be the last to be frozen.
Like, without your people, youare nothing, and so that's
that's so.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I give you a.
I'll give you a hack on thatand you'll hate it, but I'll
give you a hack on that.
So, even in a recession, thereare three things that don't get
cut from HR's budget.
Okay, payroll, payrolltechnology, benefits technology.
Now, some of those are reduced.
We just laid off 10,000 people.
Yes, you're using less payrollsoftware, but you're still using
payroll software, less benefitsmanagement software and
(17:59):
anything targeting highpotentials, high performers.
So the hack for you, your hack,the hack for your team is you
stop talking about employees andyou literally just start
talking more about your highpotentials.
You can't lose your highpotentials, this is the future
of your company, etc.
And then, once the market comesback to you, then you can talk
(18:19):
about everybody.
But those are the three things.
Historically, last 25 yearsI've been studying this those
are the things that don't getcut during recession.
That's a good tip We've got tochange our language a little
We'll have a different callabout that.
But yes, that's ultimately whywe're going to this relief.
It's a weird recession because,okay, the market's crazy, but
(18:40):
yet unemployment in hourly andin some pockets of the market
it's still crazy low and so it'snot a real recession, not a
recession that we've seenhistorically.
Normally, when we have arecession, we have a talent
surplus period.
That's it.
The market goes down, a lot ofpeople are out on the market and
we have a surplus of talent andso hiring becomes what's
(19:02):
historically been called anemployer-driven market and when
it's tight it's then acandidate-driven market.
I've basically, in the lastyear or so, I've just gotten rid
of those words because it'slike just talent drives the
market period, whether or notyou're in a recession, because
Gen Z and millennials choose notto work.
So those historical kind ofways that we've looked at things
(19:24):
and supply and demand they'reoutdated because the talent has
decided to work differently.
So really you don't vacillatebetween employer and candidate
anymore.
It's just a talent-drivenmarket period in the story.
We could talk about that forever.
Two buying things thatdefinitely.
I want to ask you One is yourfavorite part of the demo Tiller
(19:45):
?
So when you, on the occasion,get to show people Tiller for
the first time.
What's your favorite part?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
My favorite part changed yesterday.
We launched something new toproduction.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Alrighty, here we go.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Which to me, is a little game-changing, which is a
team dashboard, which meansthat, as a people leader, I can
view my team and listen.
I can view it in different ways.
I can view my whole team.
I can view by people leader, Ican view by department, but I
can view my team and I can goand see the impact of the
training currently being done,ie, are people working on
closing skills gaps andupskilling or are they working
(20:22):
on things unrelated to theircurrent job?
I can see-.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And unrelated.
To just be clear, unrelatedisn't necessarily bad.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
No, absolutely not, Just for the audience.
Yeah, so that's a greatquestion.
If you have 10 skills gaps onyour team and there are five
people learning and three offive of them are closing skills
gaps, great.
You also want people working ontheir goals on items for
succession.
But if you have 200 skills gapsand only one person's closing
(20:51):
one, that's for you.
So you have to use the data,but it's-.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
But looking at this, you can see everybody in
totality.
You can see what we're actuallydoing as an organization and
what's not being worked onworked versus what's maybe being
over indexed.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That's exactly.
You can see that piece of it aswell.
That's interesting.
The heat map Interesting.
Yeah, we have those heat mapsfor you.
They're right, they're writingmore dashboards of the product
and that is cool.
We'll also show you the impactthat investing in each
individual has on the companyhigh, medium, low and the impact
investing on your team has onthe company, so that when you're
(21:28):
asking for money, what sort ofimpact you can make.
We will show you and you cansort your team by who has the
highest skills gap?
Who would have the highestimpact?
You can also sort by skill whenis my biggest gap in terms of
skill?
And then you could develop acourse around your top two
skills gaps.
And it really just allowspeople leaders to invest in
(21:50):
their team to help their peoplesucceed and to help them achieve
their goals in the company.
And, as someone who has lovedbeing a people leader because I
love helping others achieve it'sjust such a great way to
actually understand how toinvest in people and help them
grow.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I love this is eventually, if not now, this
data can be used on the frontend in terms of acquiring talent
, and even internally it canhelp promote people into
positions where there's gaps.
So you can look at this and sayyou can look at this and say,
okay, we need to acquire, wedon't have this skill.
No one's actually moving,making movement into this skill.
(22:32):
We need to hire for that skill.
That kind of makes sense.
But also the internal mobilitypart of then saying, hey, we
have this gap.
We now can recognize that wehave this gap and no one's
making a real clear movement.
Oh wait, a minute, Sandy's madefantastic movement to that we
can promote Sandy and like wecan cover that.
It's like coverage.
(22:52):
We can now cover that gap withsomeone that internally that has
already acquired those skillsor been working on those skills,
et cetera.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I love this.
I think one of your favoriteparts of the platform would be
we have a Boolean search so youcan find people based on skills.
So if you have a project or youhave an open role, we can show
you who matches.
But you can toggle between whohas the skills and who wants the
skills.
So we also help you buildproject teams and use work as a
development opportunity bysaying, okay, I need three
(23:22):
people.
I'm going to put these twopeople that are pretty
proficient and this additionalperson who wants to learn the
skill.
So we already have some of whatyou're talking about, and I
could talk forever, but I havereally great ideas of what we
want to do for the hiring spaceas well.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Awesome.
So last question is a questionin the sense of what would you,
if you could script questionsfor practitioners when they're
evaluating skills, for talentdevelopment platforms or suites
of products, et cetera?
What would you have them askyou?
Because this is one of thereasons I started this
particular podcast was I wantedto help educate practitioners as
(23:58):
to what should be asking Likewhen you're evaluating software.
It looks great.
I think we have the problem.
What questions would you loveto field in your sales team and
everybody Attila?
What should practitioners beasking you?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I think they really need to ask and drill down on
the skills piece.
Ai is super hot right now, butone thing that is really
important to remember about AIis it's great when the use case
is there, but when we're talkingabout skills, I see a lot of
platforms that are doing AIinferred skills.
But when AI is inferring skills, that means that if you and I
(24:34):
both had marketing manager jobtitles, ai is going to infer
skills based on that.
You could be doing social mediaand I could be doing it home,
but we're going to land the sameskills.
That's not valuable.
So I would definitely encourage, if you're evaluating a
skills-based solution, to askespecially if it's AI inferred
like how are you going tocapture the unique skills of an
individual rather thangeneralize skills based on their
(24:57):
job titles?
That, to me, is one thingthat's really important.
And then also, like with manythings, ask about how the
platform has built in theability to be equitable and
inclusive, because there's adanger that if that hasn't been
thought about, the things couldactually be worse than they are
(25:19):
to be put in.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Try it.
And then we saw that in theAmazon when they did their first
kind of AI on the hiring side.
It failed and I didn't takethem to task for that.
I'm like it's going to fail,it's supposed to fail, that's
okay.
Everyone lashed out of it andwas like, oh, they use it and it
predicted that white men andthey're like, okay, yeah, it's
going to fail.
It's artificial intelligence.
(25:41):
It's not quite intelligent yet,so give it a break.
It's kind of infant level.
It will get intelligent overtime.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
I think it's hard when you don't work in the space
to remember that I'm reading abook right now called AI 2041.
We are still years away from alot of the AI use cases Now.
It's made a huge leap recently.
We know that, but that doesn'tmean it's going to get
everything perfect for manyyears.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
We set the bar very high with artificial
intelligence.
Artificial, yes, good, goodword.
Intelligence, that's a high bar.
That's a high bar for humans,yes, I'm going to use that line.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
It's artificial, almost better than humans.
Okay, good, now we can move itand change it and rebrand it
over time.
We started with this high bar.
It's artificial intelligence.
It's artificial for sure.
Yeah, I've got that, leah, Icould talk to you forever.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And thanks for everyone listening Until next
time.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
You've been listening to Recruiting Daly's Use Case
Podcast.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite platform and hit us up
at RecruitingDailycom.
Welcome to Recruiting Daily's Use Case Podcast, a
show dedicated to thestorytelling that happens or
should happen when practitionerspurchase technology.
Each episode is designed toinspire new ways and ideas to
make your business better as wespeak with the brightest minds
in recruitment and HR tech.
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Here's your host, william Tin Cup, ladies and
gentlemen, this is William TinCup and you're listening to the
Use Case Podcast.
Today we have Leah on fromTiller.
We'll be learning about the UseCase, the Business Case that
her practitioners and thecustomers and prospects use to
build for Tiller.
So, Leah, would you do us afavor and introduce yourself and
(00:44):
Tiller?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me on today.
Sure, yeah, so I am the CEO ofa company called Tiller.
We are based out of Toronto andwe have built a skills first
learning and developmentsolution, and what that means is
because we help you understandthe skills of your workforce and
the skills of your roles.
We can deliver much moretargeted training, whether it's
(01:06):
closing skills gaps andupskilling, or it's aligning
your employees' goals to theneeds of the company, so that
you both grow together.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I love that.
So you've always been intechnology, but you haven't
always been in HR per se, butyou've hired a bunch of people,
right?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
That's true.
I think I've probably hired Iwant to say it's somewhere
between 250 and 500 people.
Okay, okay, more than 10.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Got it?
How did you back then, when youwere doing that and you're
still doing that now, withTiller, of course.
But how did you evaluatepeople's skills?
What was your going to go toback then?
What was your go to understandif they were, let's say, a
Python developer, java developer, whatever the bit was?
How did you understand thebreadth and depth of their
skills?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, this probably isn't the right answer.
I've always had it on intuition.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, there's a right answer.
I'd like to know it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I'm just one of.
I'm highly intuitive, it's oneof my skills, and so I have done
almost all my hiring onintuition, but I recognize that
is not how everyone can do theirhiring.
When it comes to technicalskills, I have led technical
teams.
I'm not technical, so you lieon the right people on your team
to do those technicalscreenings.
You can obviously employ toolsto help you with that.
(02:21):
I'm always a big fan of thehuman-to-human interaction and
I've also seen a lot of goodcandidates get screened out of
technical screens.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
See, I'm glad that you admitted intuition, because
I'm also that way, and I thinkyou live in an era now where
you're like, no, it's got to be,everything's got to be, math
oriented, that's it.
I don't know if I believe that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I actually think it's limiting when you're not able
to use intuition, at least to adegree.
I worked in crypto in the earlydays and the people who wanted
to work with us they were sopassionate and the way we hired.
I don't even think we everlooked at a resume.
It was like someone would applyand they would tell us here's
what I want to do, here's what Iknow I can do.
(03:03):
And the resume didn'tnecessarily say they could do
that, which means theirexperience didn't necessarily
show they could do whatever thejob was they're applying for.
But sometimes all people wantis that opportunity to prove
that they can do what they knowthey can do, just because the
resume, the piece of paper,doesn't say it.
And so we hired people and welet them prove it.
(03:23):
We let them be accountable.
Let them.
Maybe that's not the rightphrase.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I don't know I understand what I mean.
I 100%.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, and it created the best culture, where it was a
team environment.
Everyone loved what they weredoing, and I think that this is
what everyone wants.
We want to prove that we can dowhat we know we can do and what
we want to do, and it'sactually one of the best teams
I've ever worked with, becausewe hired in a very
non-traditional way.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I think, especially at the early stages of crypto
who had a master's degree incrypto.
So it's okay.
Who's the expert here?
Obviously, there are people whoare experts, but everyone else
just.
There's a lot of potential, alot of potentiality, and there
are a lot of excitement too.
I think there's still a lot ofexcitement in crypto.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So Skills First, talent Development first of all.
I love all of this because ithelps with so many things.
It proliferates.
I came back from SHRM and itwas exciting from this
perspective.
There were so many people andthere were so many people in the
Expo Hall that the Expo Hallclosed at two on the last day
(04:25):
and they didn't get everyone outof the Expo Hall until five.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It was crazy.
I've never seen anything likeit, quite frankly, and I like
that, and not everybody wasbuying, but there was a lot of
shopping.
There was a lot of people inthere really talking to people,
which I found great, and thiswas something that came up
routinely was okay Skills Firsthiring, of course, like we
talked about, but alsoskills-based everything.
Okay.
Internal mobility has this helpus?
(04:51):
Compensation, succession,everything it leads to, if we
understand skills, it touchesall facets of HR.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's actually crazy if you think about it.
Why have we operated businessesfor so long understanding the
higher people to do but notactually understanding what they
can do?
Doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
We have no excuses.
At one point 100 years ago, youcould say I just have no idea.
There's just no data and I'mreally busy and I can't ask the
people.
Okay, good, fair enough.
But we have plenty of accesspoints, especially data-wise now
where we can actually knowthese things.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Exactly.
We know these things and we'regetting to the point that this
isn't something you can do inExcel, and we talked to a 12,000
person prospect yesterday.
That's how they were doing it.
Excel it's limiting, becauseall they're able to do is
understand a few key skills forevery job family.
They don't know the size ofpeople and we showed them our
(05:51):
product and they were like yes,this is what we want, because-.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
We can't make an Excel spreadsheet this detailed.
I've joked about this all thetime.
Microsoft Office is the largestHR tech company in the world
because people use Word, excel,outlook, some of the other
products as well, teams etc.
If you look at it and Iactually talked to the HR tech
(06:14):
the person runs HR tech forMicrosoft.
I did an analyst briefing withthem at Unleash and I said why
don't you just build it?
It's not playing because wehave no interest in building it.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
You're interested.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
She's from Seattle, she's close to you actually.
She just said we have nointerest, zero interest, in
building an HR tech play becausewe have a consumer compact, if
you will, that we don't want toever want our covenant I think
she uses the word we don't everwant to break that.
We want to partner with otherpeople that are building those
things, that are taking thosethings to market.
(06:49):
We have no interest, zerointerest.
I'm like okay, I got thatanswered.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
It's good know what you're good at and you don't
bring in experts and partners.
For the rest, I think it's goodstrategy.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Isn't that interesting, because they could.
I don't know if it would bethat great, but they could build
something.
I want to get into theapplication itself.
Skills first, talentdevelopment.
At one point you got to do sometype of inventory or audit.
How do we know what someone hascurrently, maybe what potential
that they have?
What are we calling nowtangential skills?
(07:23):
Transferable verbal skills?
There's a lot of differentwords that we use to convey the
things that they don't have butcould have.
So take us into the app.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, that's a great starting point and you're right.
The core pieces are we need tounderstand the skills of your
workforce and we have a reallyengaging, easy to use onboarding
and it takes you through a fewsteps.
Step one is we show you theskills for your existing role.
Now we don't show you theproficiency or the importance
they've been ranked because wedon't want people gaining the
(07:52):
system, but we'll show you firstthe skills for your role, then
and so you can click on whichones you have, what your
proficiency is in those skillsWe'll then take you through the
skills that are important to theorganization, because we want
everyone talking the same skillslanguage.
We want to make sure we'renoting which skills people have
that are relevant to the role,and then we'll take you through
(08:15):
job experience, education,volunteer and life experience.
We don't typically think ofourselves as a collection of
skills and we help people dothat, and one of the things
we've done that's so importantis the volunteer and life
experience, because we don't allhave the same networks and
connections, we don't all havethe same opportunities, and it's
really important that we allowpeople to bring their full
(08:36):
selves, to work their wholeexperience so that we can create
more equity and inclusivity.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So skills versus competencies?
Maybe it's not a versus what's,because some folks have grown
up in the world of buildingcompetencies models and I've
never seen I've seen a lot ofpeople try.
I've never actually seen themwork and skills seems to be a
bit more easier to approach.
I don't know why that is.
It probably might be, maybeit's just me, but what's been
(09:03):
your experience with kind ofpeople, how people look at
skills and how people look athistorically looked at
competencies?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, I think one of the things we're seeing is that
some people use theminterchangeably and talking
about competencies when they'reusing skills.
But if we're talking about howwe would view competencies
versus skills, a competencywould be a collection of skills.
It can be easier to drill downto skill level and I think it's
(09:31):
easier for the individualbecause, well, there are a lot
of people who overratethemselves.
There's a lot more people whounderrate themselves, and I
think when you give a competencyand it's higher level, it's a
lot harder to say, yes, I can dothat, whereas when you break
that competency down into 10skills, someone who has eight of
10 may not have giventhemselves the competency, but
you'll know they have the eightskills and so, yeah, and so I
(09:54):
think it can just be an easierway to think of ourselves.
And just a step further ongetting accuracy as proficiency
as another piece of this, yourstandard scale is beginner to
expert.
But what does that mean?
We had a co-op student tell usthey were an expert in coding
language, and when we asked themwhat made them an expert, they
told us well, I'm taking acourse next semester.
Yeah, exactly, there's just,there's no.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No, the jaded part of me is going to go.
I'm just going to say it.
I think that candidate was male.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It was.
It was, of course, and but thisis part of the problem.
Right, you have women who arefrom a pretty deserving groups,
who are under some of itshumility too.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I've also found this, and I know you're Canadian, so
I'll say this to your face.
I've also found this withCanadians as well, and not
regardless of background orgender or the other things that
most Canadian folks thatinteract with are super humble.
You're not going to tell youhow often you're going to be.
Somebody on the other like 40miles south.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You know, someone will say to me like oh, you're a
CEO.
And I'm like oh, yeah, but it'sa small company.
And I'm like why do I keepsaying that You're?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
right, it's just a small company, yeah, something,
or just yeah, yeah, yeah, you'reright we very humble.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah.
And so when it comes tocompetency, we have put a lot of
research into it and we haveclearly defined levels that also
don't have judgment on them.
So instead of saying one tofive, or beginner to expert or
no joke, I saw one that was babychicken to ninja, we actually
say we are, we say I havelearned the skill.
I have not used the skill I canuse the skill with a little bit
of help, Like we've just.
(11:28):
We've made it so much easier tonot over or underrate yourself,
which is super important.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So what you take on the life shelf of our
exploration of a self and of askill, and what I want, what I'm
really trying to figure out myown mind, is this idea, concept
of micro skills, things that youacquire, like every day we're
building something, like we'reusing our mind to do some things
where we're evolving some skillI'm not sure what it is, but
(11:56):
something but also something'sbeing diminished.
I don't mean that in a bad way,just we haven't touched that in
a while, so it's not.
I think skills havehistorically been looked at as
you've achieved them and then,if you don't ever do it again,
you still have that skills.
I struggle personally.
This is my struggle I strugglewith if you haven't touched Java
in, let's say, 10 years, you'reprobably not still at that
(12:18):
level.
Yeah, you could probably rampup pretty quickly, but you're
not quite at that level.
Like, first of all, am I off?
You do this for a living.
So, first of all, you'retotally right.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I think about myself.
I went to French immersion fromgrade one all the way through
to university.
I went to a campus here I have abilingual honors, but I have
not really used my French sinceI'm going to date myself, but
since 2006, essentially, andwhen it's spoken, I can
understand it, I can read it,but if I were to go into a job
(12:49):
and say I'm bilingual, it wouldnot be the truth at this point.
And could I have a refresherand get back up?
Yeah, I've been playing aroundon Duolingo, so I think this is
also part of it is beingself-aware about.
I might have worked inmarketing for the first five
years of my career, but now it'sbeen another 15 years and I
haven't used skills.
Things change, and part of howour platform can pick up on that
(13:12):
is that again, we're breakingit beyond the competency of
marketing down to the actualskills and the skills change.
If you haven't done marketingin 10 years, maybe you don't
know how to use Snapchat orTikTok or one of these tools
that are so popular today, andso you can pick up on some of it
in that way.
But it does require a certaindegree of self-awareness, which
(13:34):
is why we've got your individualproficiency ratings, but then
we're also just about to launchmanager proficiency ratings and
then peer proficiency ratings,so you've got that little bit of
a combo score because it'lljust be that much more accurate
getting the three views in there.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, everyone lacks in training.
So first of all say this aboutexecutives, board members, all
the way throughout.
Like everyone, there's a lackof training for everybody.
But I've keyed in the lastcouple of months on online
managers, mid managers, hiringmanagers, all the folks in the
middle, let's say they don't getany training.
It's just, it's reallyobnoxious.
Like early stage employees,there is some training.
(14:14):
You're about to do a job yeah,we should probably train.
You got it.
But at one point they getpromoted to a level.
Yeah, we just forget that bit,we just.
Janet, you've been promoted.
Great, go do it.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Even your most basic level of training, which is
onboarding, is missing.
I'll tell you, I joined you inan executive level role but the
lack of onboarding and basicthings like tell me what each of
these acronyms mean, I think itaffected my productivity even
two years into that role, whereI wouldn't understand what's
going on in conversation becauseof the way people were speaking
(14:48):
.
So I think basic level ofonboarding is the most important
training when someone'sstarting a role.
But you're right aboutleadership.
When we launch in a company,I'd say eight times out of 10
training leaders is the most orone of the most important
priorities that the company hasto start out with.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So where do we, where does that data?
Where does our data go?
Like we're okay, so the fourwalls will tell her I'm totally
good at it.
But does it impact or does itgive any information or
visibility or insight into otherplatforms?
Does it pull data from otherplatforms?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
We do pull data from other platforms.
So we pull a lot of market dataaround.
Which skills are the currentlet's say, trending skills for
each role?
Because we don't just want toset people up for success in the
present and train them fortheir next career goal.
We want to make sure thatpeople are staying relevant.
There's this corn fairy stat.
I read that they're projecting$8.5 trillion of unrealized
(15:48):
revenue in the US alone in 2030,because companies won't have
the skills they need to compete.
So we're pulling that marketdata.
So on a quarterly basis, youcan go and look at your roles.
We'll recommend skills for yourroles that we're seeing in the
market so you can add them andstart training people and making
sure that you're being moreforward thinking about keeping
the skills you need in yourworkforce and in your company.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Wow, Okay.
So what's the challenge?
Because everything makes senseto me so far.
What's the objection that yoursales team or some of your folks
have?
Once they've talked to somebody, they're showing them software.
Everybody loves it.
Why would they say no?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So I think learning and development is an
interesting space, because, well, we all know that the number
one reason people leave theirjobs is lack of development.
Our answer has been this L&Dperk, which is hey, here's $500
a year, and then people don'tknow what they want.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
They're learning, they're not going to the abyss
of the LMS.
And have fun, that's it.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Someone goes and learns how to play guitar.
They come back and want to playguitar for the company and
you're like, but we don't needsomeone to play guitar.
And then you just createfrustration.
And then you have leadershipand finance who want to cut back
these L&D budgets becausethey're delivering no results,
no retention results, no growthresults, they're just not
getting a return on thatinvestment.
And so it's a big mindset shiftto say, hey, now we're going to
(17:08):
move to this method, we'regoing to be able to do
everything.
So we do often get people whoare like I'm obsessed with this,
I want it.
They try to go sell it toleadership and it seems like a
bigger undertaking than it is,even though, honestly, we've
made it so easy.
And the other objection we arefacing a lot and this is
temporary is HR budgets Likethey are the first to be frozen,
(17:31):
even though in my opinion theyshould be the last to be frozen.
Like, without your people, youare nothing, and so that's
that's so.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I give you a.
I'll give you a hack on thatand you'll hate it, but I'll
give you a hack on that.
So, even in a recession, thereare three things that don't get
cut from HR's budget.
Okay, payroll, payrolltechnology, benefits technology.
Now, some of those are reduced.
We just laid off 10,000 people.
Yes, you're using less payrollsoftware, but you're still using
payroll software, less benefitsmanagement software and
(17:59):
anything targeting highpotentials, high performers.
So the hack for you, your hack,the hack for your team is you
stop talking about employees andyou literally just start
talking more about your highpotentials.
You can't lose your highpotentials, this is the future
of your company, etc.
And then, once the market comesback to you, then you can talk
(18:19):
about everybody.
But those are the three things.
Historically, last 25 yearsI've been studying this those
are the things that don't getcut during recession.
That's a good tip We've got tochange our language a little
We'll have a different callabout that.
But yes, that's ultimately whywe're going to this relief.
It's a weird recession because,okay, the market's crazy, but
(18:40):
yet unemployment in hourly andin some pockets of the market
it's still crazy low and so it'snot a real recession, not a
recession that we've seenhistorically.
Normally, when we have arecession, we have a talent
surplus period.
That's it.
The market goes down, a lot ofpeople are out on the market and
we have a surplus of talent andso hiring becomes what's
(19:02):
historically been called anemployer-driven market and when
it's tight it's then acandidate-driven market.
I've basically, in the lastyear or so, I've just gotten rid
of those words because it'slike just talent drives the
market period, whether or notyou're in a recession, because
Gen Z and millennials choose notto work.
So those historical kind ofways that we've looked at things
(19:24):
and supply and demand they'reoutdated because the talent has
decided to work differently.
So really you don't vacillatebetween employer and candidate
anymore.
It's just a talent-drivenmarket period in the story.
We could talk about that forever.
Two buying things thatdefinitely.
I want to ask you One is yourfavorite part of the demo Tiller
(19:45):
?
So when you, on the occasion,get to show people Tiller for
the first time.
What's your favorite part?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
My favorite part changed yesterday.
We launched something new toproduction.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Alrighty, here we go.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Which to me, is a little game-changing, which is a
team dashboard, which meansthat, as a people leader, I can
view my team and listen.
I can view it in different ways.
I can view my whole team.
I can view by people leader, Ican view by department, but I
can view my team and I can goand see the impact of the
training currently being done,ie, are people working on
closing skills gaps andupskilling or are they working
(20:22):
on things unrelated to theircurrent job?
I can see-.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And unrelated.
To just be clear, unrelatedisn't necessarily bad.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
No, absolutely not, Just for the audience.
Yeah, so that's a greatquestion.
If you have 10 skills gaps onyour team and there are five
people learning and three offive of them are closing skills
gaps, great.
You also want people working ontheir goals on items for
succession.
But if you have 200 skills gapsand only one person's closing
(20:51):
one, that's for you.
So you have to use the data,but it's-.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
But looking at this, you can see everybody in
totality.
You can see what we're actuallydoing as an organization and
what's not being worked onworked versus what's maybe being
over indexed.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That's exactly.
You can see that piece of it aswell.
That's interesting.
The heat map Interesting.
Yeah, we have those heat mapsfor you.
They're right, they're writingmore dashboards of the product
and that is cool.
We'll also show you the impactthat investing in each
individual has on the companyhigh, medium, low and the impact
investing on your team has onthe company, so that when you're
(21:28):
asking for money, what sort ofimpact you can make.
We will show you and you cansort your team by who has the
highest skills gap?
Who would have the highestimpact?
You can also sort by skill whenis my biggest gap in terms of
skill?
And then you could develop acourse around your top two
skills gaps.
And it really just allowspeople leaders to invest in
(21:50):
their team to help their peoplesucceed and to help them achieve
their goals in the company.
And, as someone who has lovedbeing a people leader because I
love helping others achieve it'sjust such a great way to
actually understand how toinvest in people and help them
grow.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I love this is eventually, if not now, this
data can be used on the frontend in terms of acquiring talent
, and even internally it canhelp promote people into
positions where there's gaps.
So you can look at this and sayyou can look at this and say,
okay, we need to acquire, wedon't have this skill.
No one's actually moving,making movement into this skill.
(22:32):
We need to hire for that skill.
That kind of makes sense.
But also the internal mobilitypart of then saying, hey, we
have this gap.
We now can recognize that wehave this gap and no one's
making a real clear movement.
Oh wait, a minute, Sandy's madefantastic movement to that we
can promote Sandy and like wecan cover that.
It's like coverage.
(22:52):
We can now cover that gap withsomeone that internally that has
already acquired those skillsor been working on those skills,
et cetera.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I love this.
I think one of your favoriteparts of the platform would be
we have a Boolean search so youcan find people based on skills.
So if you have a project or youhave an open role, we can show
you who matches.
But you can toggle between whohas the skills and who wants the
skills.
So we also help you buildproject teams and use work as a
development opportunity bysaying, okay, I need three
(23:22):
people.
I'm going to put these twopeople that are pretty
proficient and this additionalperson who wants to learn the
skill.
So we already have some of whatyou're talking about, and I
could talk forever, but I havereally great ideas of what we
want to do for the hiring spaceas well.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Awesome.
So last question is a questionin the sense of what would you,
if you could script questionsfor practitioners when they're
evaluating skills, for talentdevelopment platforms or suites
of products, et cetera?
What would you have them askyou?
Because this is one of thereasons I started this
particular podcast was I wantedto help educate practitioners as
(23:58):
to what should be asking Likewhen you're evaluating software.
It looks great.
I think we have the problem.
What questions would you loveto field in your sales team and
everybody Attila?
What should practitioners beasking you?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I think they really need to ask and drill down on
the skills piece.
Ai is super hot right now, butone thing that is really
important to remember about AIis it's great when the use case
is there, but when we're talkingabout skills, I see a lot of
platforms that are doing AIinferred skills.
But when AI is inferring skills, that means that if you and I
(24:34):
both had marketing manager jobtitles, ai is going to infer
skills based on that.
You could be doing social mediaand I could be doing it home,
but we're going to land the sameskills.
That's not valuable.
So I would definitely encourage, if you're evaluating a
skills-based solution, to askespecially if it's AI inferred
like how are you going tocapture the unique skills of an
individual rather thangeneralize skills based on their
(24:57):
job titles?
That, to me, is one thingthat's really important.
And then also, like with manythings, ask about how the
platform has built in theability to be equitable and
inclusive, because there's adanger that if that hasn't been
thought about, the things couldactually be worse than they are
(25:19):
to be put in.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Try it.
And then we saw that in theAmazon when they did their first
kind of AI on the hiring side.
It failed and I didn't takethem to task for that.
I'm like it's going to fail,it's supposed to fail, that's
okay.
Everyone lashed out of it andwas like, oh, they use it and it
predicted that white men andthey're like, okay, yeah, it's
going to fail.
It's artificial intelligence.
(25:41):
It's not quite intelligent yet,so give it a break.
It's kind of infant level.
It will get intelligent overtime.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
I think it's hard when you don't work in the space
to remember that I'm reading abook right now called AI 2041.
We are still years away from alot of the AI use cases Now.
It's made a huge leap recently.
We know that, but that doesn'tmean it's going to get
everything perfect for manyyears.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
We set the bar very high with artificial
intelligence.
Artificial, yes, good, goodword.
Intelligence, that's a high bar.
That's a high bar for humans,yes, I'm going to use that line.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
It's artificial, almost better than humans.
Okay, good, now we can move itand change it and rebrand it
over time.
We started with this high bar.
It's artificial intelligence.
It's artificial for sure.
Yeah, I've got that, leah, Icould talk to you forever.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And thanks for everyone listening Until next
time.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
You've been listening to Recruiting Daly's Use Case
Podcast.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite platform and hit us up
at RecruitingDailycom.
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