June 21, 2025 • 65 mins
Venus explores the mind-blowing intersection between BDSM, kink, and cuckolding with Victor, a self-described "primal" individual who brings a unique perspective to the bull role.
• Victor shares his journey from suppressing his primal nature to embracing it through kink and BDSM
• Understanding the psychological aspects of cuckolding goes deeper than just physical pleasure
• The "primal" energy described as controlled, disciplined power rather than uncontrolled dominance
• Consent culture in BDSM compared to other lifestyle communities with strict boundaries and respect
• The importance of communication, asking questions, and understanding partners' desires
• How women in the lifestyle often crave mental connection ("fuck my mind before my body")
• Victor's approach of zero expectations creates deeper, longer-lasting connections
• The red flag of husbands trying to coerce wives into cuckolding without consent
• Recommendations for couples to explore local kink communities as educational resources
Links
Join the Live Chat with Venus July 3rd in the Queens Quarters Community - https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/offers/FTNWndiv/checkout
If you're interested in learning more about kink and BDSM in cuckolding, you can find Victor on FetLife under the profile name "LasciviousNature."
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Destination Links for Venus - https://linktr.ee/venuscuckoldress
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
King, and BDSM, by its very nature, is as much
about your own psychology andunderstanding your psychology,
because when you understandyourself, you're better able to
understand others.
You want to understand others.
You want to be able tounderstand what drives them to
do X.
That level of curiosity sitswithin a lot of people within
(00:24):
the kind of King of BDSMcommunity.
There wouldn't be a thing whereI'd be like, let's say, for
example, if I were meeting acouple and I'm all they're
feeling this overwhelmingdominant energy, you know I'm
literally on the leash, kind ofwanting to snap off it and do
something More.
(00:45):
It will be very controlled,very disciplined and very clear.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh, that's hot.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And she came in and we locked eyes and I was like,
oh, I'm going to eat you, I'mgoing to devour you, and that
that was just on.
Look, we didn't speak any wordsto each other, but she looked
at me and she was like shelooked like prey, like she knew
she was going to be hunted a bitlater on in the party, I had
(01:18):
some time, etc.
And then when I saw her, thatwas it.
I mean, it was.
It was just as we like to saycolloquially here bonkers, just
off the charts.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
What you're telling me is exactly what these women
are asking for.
Oh my God, everything justclicked right now, holy shit.
Everything just clicked rightnow, holy shit.
This is the Venus Cuckoldrispodcast, a place to learn all
things cuckolding for thecurious, for the passionate and
(01:56):
for the sexually empowered womanwho wants it all.
Let's go, welcome to the show.
(02:16):
I'm your host, venus.
Thanks for joining me today.
Today I have victor, who is myfriend that I actually met in
person when I was in London formy meet and greet there, the
event that I did recently, andwhat a conversation that we had,
and I thought I have to havethis guy on the show.
So today he's going to talkabout the mind-blowing
(02:40):
intersection of BDSM andcuckolding, and I remember what
back when I had Dr Justin LeeMiller on the show.
He is the author of Tell Mewhat you Want, the book, which
is fantastic, and also he hasthe podcast, one of my favorite
podcasts Sex and Psychology.
When he was on the show, hetalked about, or he mentioned
(03:02):
something about how men whofantasize about cuckolding
generally have quite kinky asfar as the BDSM aspects of
cuckold fantasy less and less sofor the women who I've spoken
(03:37):
to.
So this show is going to betalking all about kink and BDSM
when it comes to cuckolding,what that is, what that looks
like, how to get into it and allof the stuff that surrounds it.
I think that all the cucks aregoing to find this one really,
really interesting.
But also for any bulls whomight be listening and maybe
(03:59):
you're new, maybe you'reinterested in learning about the
dynamic, about submission anddominance and that kind of thing
this episode is a great placeto start that educational
journey, because Victor is afantastic, experienced person to
talk on this subject, so Ithink you're going to really
(04:21):
like it.
I learned so much from thisepisode.
It's amazing how manyconversations and episodes I've
done regarding cuckolding and Inever stop learning.
I took away so much from thisshow today and I think you are
too.
I think you're going to love it.
But first I have a couple ofannouncements, just quick ones.
(04:42):
I'm doing a live chat in theQueens Quarters community on
Thursday, july 3.
And that'll be at 12pm PacificTime, so that's 3pm Eastern.
It's free for anybody to join.
It's a live chat.
We're just going to do aregular general kind of Q&A
discussion.
The last one I did was so funand I think we talked for like
(05:03):
two fucking hours.
So it was great.
Lots of conversations you canjump in, you can ask questions,
you can learn stuff, you canmeet people all that good stuff.
So check out the link to RSVPfor that chat.
It's in the description notesfor today's episode, or you can
just go to venuscuckledresscom.
Click on the events tab.
(05:25):
Second, I haven't asked for thisin a really long time, but I'm
going to put it out there.
If you love this show, please,pretty please, would you rate
and review it on Apple Podcastsor whatever podcast platform
you're listening on.
I would appreciate that so muchand it would mean a lot to me.
All right, that's it forannouncements.
(05:47):
Now let's jump into the show.
Right after this quick messagefrom my friends over at Joy Mode
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tryjoymodecom.
Joining me on the show, I haveVictor.
Victor is a what he callsprimal individual and this
(07:18):
drives his passions.
He's here to talk about how heis a big fan of kink and BDSM in
cuckolding in the bull role.
So welcome to the show, victor.
Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, hello.
Thank you, Venus, for invitingme onto your podcast.
It's really great to be here.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And we got to meet in person in London.
I had a meet and greet eventrecently in London and I got to
meet Victor there and we had agreat conversation and said hey,
I would love to have you on theshow.
So I'm really excited for youto come here and talk about your
story and you're very unique Idon't want to say unique, but I
(07:53):
think it's fascinating take onthe bull role in cuckolding.
So welcome to the show.
Thank you, all right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you, started a long time ago, if I just kind of
put.
Let me just put it out there.
It started a long time ago.
Um, there's, there's a coupleof ways of me kind of looking at
this.
There was I've always had aninterest in um, in kink and bdsm
, and I know we'll talk moreabout that, but I've always had
an interest in it from a fairlyyoung age, without really
understanding why.
And then in my teens I realizedthat I had a side of me that
(08:57):
felt very dark, very raw, dark,very raw, and you know what I
call primal nowadays and youknow other primals will
understand that it wasinteresting to have it so young
and I used to suppress it.
I used to, you know, like no,no, no, no.
(09:20):
This side of me is clearly verydangerous.
I have no intention of allowingit out, and actually over a
long period of time.
When you suppress anythingabout oneself and we can do that
when we're teenagers, we'retrying to work out who we are,
we're trying to understandourselves relative to our
(09:42):
friends and peer group and allof that kind of stuff and I just
remember this side felt like Ihad to hide it, and it wasn't
until later on in life, my verylate 20s, when I kind of was
able to return to it.
I ended a relationship.
(10:04):
I remember thinking to myselfone I don't want to make those
mistakes you know ended arelationship.
I remember thinking to myselfone, I don't want to make those
mistakes I made in arelationship, again those type
of mistakes.
And two, I think I need tounderstand who I am.
And then I kind of went and andthat understanding who I was
was as much about my sexualityand sexual side as well as other
things.
(10:24):
So, yeah, I just kind of, youknow early days of internet and
the you know early 2000s, veryearly late 90s, early 2000s, and
there I was in and you know,before I know it I was, um, yeah
, meeting people ratherunexpectedly.
And so that was like in kinkyspaces kind of thing yeah, it
(10:48):
was um, uh, I think the old kindof I don't know they're still
around, I suppose uh, you know,kind of adult friend finder and
that kind of stuff from way backwhen, um, yeah, and I would.
And there were other kind ofmore swinging sites from you
know that period of time thatwere quite popular here and yeah
(11:13):
, I just kind of looked around,explored, kind of went on them
and then I started meetingpeople.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
And I remember the first couple I met.
Was that when you first learnedabout cuckolding?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
yeah, I mean that was the first experience.
It wasn't even like oh yeah, Ijust it just felt all right and
so I'm meeting these couples,right, okay, fine, and that was
that, and it felt natural and itfelt very normal and it was
really interesting, but less ofa community than it might be
(11:51):
today, less material to readabout it than you would have
today in terms of doing researchand understanding Cock-holing,
what's it about and you know, etcetera, and what's my role, and
you can do that today.
Back then you just you justdidn't have that material.
You had to meet people, haveyour experience and go away and
process it.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, you had to fuck around and find out, right?
I mean that's what you learn asyou go Right.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And yeah, all on the job, all on the job.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh man, we are so lucky today that we have so much
resources and so muchinformation out there to be able
to learn about this.
But yeah, back then it was justlike whatever.
And so when you met with yourfirst couple, was it just like
regular sex with her or was itkinky at all?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
No, I mean, at the beginning it was very much more
regular.
It was trying to understand so,okay, so you want me, husband,
to have sex with your wife,right?
And that kind of in my head I'mthinking these things, I'm
thinking, okay, this is kind ofnormal, um, but at that time it
(13:06):
was just more sexual because Ididn't yet have that mindset and
I hadn't fully traversed intokind of kink and bdsm um, and it
was basically me meeting morepeople, um, that then made me
transition, made me kind of wantto explore the kind of kink
(13:30):
side of things.
So yeah, at the beginning itwas like, wow, this is a new
experience.
Huh, how do I feel about that?
You know, it was a lot of thatas I went away from them or you
know, engaging with couples andtrying to understand what do
they want, what do they wantfrom me, and also for it to feel
good for me as a then youngblack guy who didn't really know
(13:57):
anything about this whole kindof hey, we're, you know, we're
into black guys, we, you knowthe kind of whole black bull
thing, bull thing.
I mean, none of that was knownto me fascinating.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So I this is this is so interesting to me because
there's guys out there who will,you know, be the, the third,
the, be the guy to fuck the wife, and it it's all about just
having lots of sex.
But then there's like the fewguys who, like yourself, who
have those experiences andsomething kind of it's like a
flip that switches and there'sthis real curiosity to learn
(14:33):
about the dynamic of the coupleand how you fit into that and
all of that.
And I think that's where itkind of distinguishes guys who
really enjoy that kind ofexperience versus guys who just
want pussy.
So I'm assuming that thoseexperiences for you kind of flip
(14:58):
that switch and you were like,oh, I can fuck with this game,
like I've, like you get, likeyou start to understand the
mental aspect of it which Ithink correct me if I'm wrong is
a big aspect of the kink andBDSM right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yes, Kink and BDSM by its very nature, and is as much
about your own psychology andunderstanding your psychology,
because when you understandyourself you're better able to
understand others.
You want to understand others,you want, you want to be able to
understand what drives them todo x or behave in in y way.
(15:36):
Or you know, um.
So what were you thinking aboutwhen you did that?
You know kind kind of thing.
So that level of curiosity sitswithin a lot of people, within
the kind of King of BDSMcommunity.
You know, and it doesn't matterwhether you're a D type, a
dominant, whether you're an Stype, in terms of a submissive,
(15:59):
you know it doesn't matter.
If you're a switch, it doesn'tmatter, you know where you may
be, it doesn't matter if you'rea switch, it doesn't matter, you
know where you may be.
You are driven by wanting tounderstand.
So you know, if you come from amore dominant perspective, you
want to understand.
Well, what kind of submissiveindividual is this?
And even you know there's notone type of submissive
(16:22):
individual.
There's different branches ofthat.
It could be an obedientsubmissive, it could be a sexual
submissive, it could be aservice submissive.
You suddenly realize it's aplethora, it's enormous, it's a
universe and it's like travelingfrom one star to another to see
a whole group of differentplanets and then marveling at
(16:44):
wow, and then taking thatinformation and and traveling
somewhere else and go all right.
So when I was there, I rememberthis.
This might be of use here.
Let me apply it.
So everything is is aboutapplication, understanding
environment and applying it, andmy mind works like that as a
natural thing.
I'm uh, you, you know, let menot say it loudly, but I'm geeky
(17:05):
, so you know I might not lookit.
You've seen me, I don't look it, but you know I am geeky.
So everything for me is abouthow does it work, why does it do
what it does, et cetera.
Blah, blah, blah.
So the the aspect of maybe youknow, as you put it, chasing
pussy is never going to befulfilling to me.
(17:28):
It was never going to befulfilling.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I didn't know that immediately, but I found that
out, maybe much more quicklythan others might so there's
gonna be a lot of people who arelistening to this show who are
not familiar with the differentlabels and terms and kinky bdsm,
(17:50):
um, what you call yourself aprimal what exactly is that?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
well, some people will kind of have, you know, a
couple of different definitionsbecause there's different types
of primal individuals.
To some people their primalsense means they identify with,
maybe a particular type ofanimal.
It could be a bear, it could bea wolf, it could be that that
(18:19):
kind of instincts of that animalthey feel within themselves.
So that's kind of one form ofhaving a primal personality.
My, um, primal nature is justdriven by a very raw base side
(18:41):
of me.
This part of me is like is, is,is, it's almost.
It's like he just goes oh, Ican see you and I know you can
see me If he identifies anotherprimal individual.
And then everything becomes likeall bets are off from there,
(19:02):
literally, and I've had thatexperience.
You know primal partners,partners, you know people I've
met.
I remember I used to beinvolved in a party, um kind of
you know, uh, actually funnyenough, it was a um kind of
black guys couples party, uh,and I used to be there and I
(19:25):
used to help organize and runthe dungeon, and so people would
come to me for the kind of kinkand BDSM part, those who kind
of were interested in that.
But most people would behappily fucking the property and
enjoying themselves left, rightand center.
And what I found was reallyinteresting is that a lot of
(19:46):
people knew me, but some peoplewould say to me I've never seen
you do anything with anyone.
Oh, like you come in here andlike you don't drop your
trousers, you know, you know,like they just they just could
not get their heads around it.
They just like, and I said, andI used to tell them that I'm
(20:07):
here, you know, for you knowother people's enjoyment per se.
But they said the sex doesn'treally kind of, you know, run it
for me as pure.
It has to have a BDSM element,a kink element to it.
And on one occasion some guythat I know brought this woman
(20:27):
and she came in and we lockedeyes and I was like, oh, I'm
gonna eat you, I'm gonna devouryou, and that was just on.
Look, we didn't speak any wordsto each other, but she looked
at me and she was like pray.
She looked like pray, like sheknew she was going to be hunted.
(20:50):
And you know, uh, a bit lateron in the party I had some time,
etc.
And then when I saw her, thatwas it.
I mean, it was, it was just aswe like to say colloquially here
, bonkers, just off the charts.
And it was really funny becauseafterwards we were just kind of
(21:14):
chatting, you know, after wekind of had a session with each
other, and she just said I feltyou as soon as I walked into the
room and I just knew that youknow, I had to do as you told me
.
And I said to her oh yeah,you're primal but you're prey,
and she was like what's that?
(21:34):
And so therefore, I was justtalking to her about that.
I said it felt very visceral, itfelt very raw, it just you
couldn't really change your mindabout things.
You just knew instinctuallybecause it's a very instinctual
thing, this whole aspect ofbeing primal is very instinctual
.
So even the sex is just like,whatever it's going to be,
(22:01):
there's no, oh, you do this, youdo that.
No, it's like hearing two foxesoutside, you thinking, wow,
you're making a lot of noise.
What's going on?
It's very, very primal likethat.
So, yes, when, a when a primalindividual eyes another primal,
you, you can feel it.
It's really I can't.
(22:23):
I almost cannot describe it,but anyone who's primal will
understand.
If someone's listening to thisand they happen to be a fellow
primal, go.
Yeah, I know what he's talkingabout well, I I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
It comes from a very natural place like this is not
something that's kind of floofy,made up or made up on the fly
or you you know, role-playing orwhatever that.
This is naturally just who youare and how you like, what your
energy is.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, very much so, um.
And when I, when I was younger,and I had this part of me that
I didn't understand, you couldimagine that I need, I felt I
needed to suppress it because Ithought it was dangerous, you
know it, just he, it was as ifand it was at the time another
(23:15):
entity coming outside and goingI'm driving the bus, get in the
back, victor, I'm in control now, and you know, and my young
self be thinking, oh my god,that's too dangerous and what is
he going to do, kind of thing.
But here I am older, he'sintegrated into me, that's fine,
he's part of me, I'm him, we'reone, and so, therefore, there's
(23:39):
no real issue with regard to it.
I'm just primal.
I prefer maybe other primalindividuals that I will happily
interact with, but you don'thave to be, because here's the
thing as primal as I am, I don'tbehave that way with people who
are not primal.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I can identify them pretty quickly.
They're not, that's fine, I'min control of it.
You know it's all about, about,you know, being in control and
being disciplined.
Um, and that for me is is, youknow, important and easy.
But if somebody didn't knowthey could think, wow, that guy
sounds pretty, pretty kind ofwild.
You know just that that allsounds like uncontrollable, a
(24:24):
bit edgy and etc.
Anyone who's genuine willunderstand.
Anyone who's genuine has beenin it, understands themselves,
understand their primal nature,etc.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Will know when they deploy it from when they don't
okay, that's good, I'm glad tohear that, yay, but how is this
not a dominant energy?
Like, honestly, in cuckoldinghere this all the time, where a
lot of um cucks really fantasizeabout dominant bulls and um who
(24:58):
have that radiant kind ofenergy?
Um, is this, is it?
Is it not the same?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
It is the same in a way, because you know people who
will meet me I mean, obviouslyyou've had the pleasure, but you
know, you know, just in asocial aspect will turn around
and say, wow, you've got a realenergy about you, you've got
(25:25):
something about you that justsays, hmm, and I find that quite
funny because I'm just beingnormal, I'm not thinking about,
hey, I need to project anythingthere's.
There's nothing, um, that I'mthinking about other than, oh,
here I am, let me engage withthis person, and then, but for
them, it's like what they'rereading, what they're feeling,
(25:46):
is something quite different.
So I know that I have an energythat a lot of people react to.
Yes, it is a dominant energy,but it's a dominant energy based
on the fact that I know who Iam.
I'm clear about that, I canarticulate it and I know what my
(26:06):
mission is.
Articulate it and I know whatmy mission is and what I mean by
that.
In saying what my mission is,it's like you know, it's about
enjoyment, but it's aboutenjoyment with a discipline, and
that's something that I thinkwill be understood by some
people but not by others.
(26:28):
So there wouldn't be a thingwhere I'd be like, let's say,
for example, if I were meeting acouple and I'm all they're
feeling this overwhelmingdominant energy, you know I'm
literally on the leash, kind ofwanting to snap off it and do
something More.
(26:48):
It will be very controlled,very disciplined and very clear.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Oh, that's hot.
That's hot Because there'ssomething very powerful about
that that's so much morepowerful than the out of control
I'm going to snap off the leashkind of energy.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, it is.
It is different.
It is very, very different andsome people kind of maybe see it
or think about it as a littlebit reserved.
Maybe it's not quite sure.
No, no, I'm pretty damn sure,and there's nothing reserved.
(27:30):
But there is no need for anoverspill of that energy.
You know it's like let's deploythis amount, let's turn around
and do this, and you know that'show I like it and other people
have liked that too.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Can you give us an idea everyone who's listening,
an idea of what this actuallylooks like in a cuckold dynamic?
This kind of kink, bdsm, primalbull, energy kind of thing?
What does that actually looklike?
(28:07):
Is it typical to what you seein cuck porn?
Probably not.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
No, because even when I think about my early days,
it's quite different.
You do more preparatory work,in a way.
You want to kind of understandwhat the dynamic is between the
individuals if they'veapproached you, or even if you
see something and you approachthem, you'd be like okay, I want
(28:35):
to understand about you and thefirst thing that you normally
turn around and say there's norush here.
Because if someone's in a rushto do something, that tells me
um, a lot about them and they'repeople I will normally avoid
yeah, they'd be people I'd belike no thanks, um.
(28:55):
But if they're more consideredin what they're trying to do,
what they're trying to, you know, effectuate lovely word, um,
you know then it's somewhatdifferent, because they're not
telling me oh, you're thinkers,right, you use your brain, right
, you know.
So there's a.
(29:16):
So immediately that falls intokind of that um, psychological
bit which I, you know, what areyou trying to do?
Why are you trying to do it?
What experience have you had?
(29:36):
What's important to you?
What's your dynamic like, youknow, et cetera.
I want to know that, with aview to nothing, and what I mean
by that?
No, zero expectation.
I'm engaged with you, zeroexpectation.
There should be none from yourside, because there's none from
mine.
Let's see where it goes.
(30:00):
I have not heard that before.
Yeah, it's a different approachand again, I appreciate it's
not for everyone, but you'd bequite surprised how many are
kind of slightly taken aback,especially as they may well have
(30:21):
engaged with other bulls, andespecially black bulls, and
they've had something quitedifferent, and then they kind of
go huh, what's going on here?
I think we need to delve alittle deeper, I think we're a
little bit more interested, andthen, before you know it,
they're in that space and you'rekind of like okay, you're here,
(30:43):
that's fine, let's, let's seewhere this goes, but with zero
expectation.
And I mean that I mean evendown to you know, happily meet
up et cetera, and just sit thereand have a conversation and
then make them go away and thinkabout what they've just
(31:04):
experienced.
And again, a lot are not usedto that.
You mean, we're not going to doanything, absolutely not, but
you're going to go away andyou're going to think about it,
and they go away and they thinkabout it and inevitably they're
even more interested.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Because it's almost like what it's a mind fuck?
Yeah, it's a mind fuck, andthat is the psychological aspect
, that's a psychological part,you know, um, but oh my god,
it's fine for me.
It's fine for me because for meit's just like we take our time
(31:47):
victor.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
How many times over the last decade have I heard the
women in this lifestylecomplaining about how they need
to feel a connection they needto?
They they're all.
Just yesterday, I heard a womansay he needs to fuck my mind
before he can fuck my body.
I mean, women are literallylike starved for this mental,
(32:10):
emotional connection with thisguy, not just a dick in pussy,
and what you're telling me isexactly what these women are
asking for.
Oh my God, everything justclicked right now, holy shit.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, but it's, it's.
I mean it's funny you say that.
I mean, look, I'm extremelyfortunate that a lot of the
people for me in the communityhere and a lot of my you know,
very close friends are women.
So I spend my time around womenand I engage with them and they
talk to me and I'm like wow why, don't men understand this?
(32:52):
Why do they not grasp how simpleit is?
But that's driven by this wholekind of thing.
Men are men, women are women,and men think that women are
different species, whereasactually you know that's a human
being.
There are lots ofintersectional stuff that you
(33:13):
both share as human beings, soyou can actually engage with
this person without making themfeel, you know, kind of strange
or weird or they're just onething.
Look, I don't want to say thatmen are lazy, but I am going to
say a lot of men are lazy.
Um, I'm going to turn aroundand say that I'm going to be
upfront.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I didn't say it, he said it.
I did not say it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It feels like it's too much work for them, but at
the same time they don't realizehow much more work they're
doing the way they go aboutthings and how much less work
that I have to do going aboutthe things the way that I do.
But it looks like it.
It it feels like an equation tothem that hey, I'm not here to
(33:58):
do maths, I'm just here forpussy and so therefore, you know
, then, that's what they do,whereas for me it's uh, it's
something deeper, etc.
And the connections are stronger, uh, and so on.
And so, therefore, thoserelationships that I, I make and
cultivate, they're deep andthey last a long time.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I can imagine.
I can definitely imagine.
Now I'm going to ask you abouta couple of things, the first
one being some stereotypes aboutkink and BDSM, because I
remember when I first got intothe non-monogamy world, I jumped
into the swinger's lifestyle asa solo woman, as a unicorn, and
had so much fun with that and Ithought that was kinky and fun.
(34:42):
And then I slowly gotintroduced to cuckolding.
I still didn't reallyunderstand anything about kink.
I remember going on FetLife wayback in the day and being like
so overwhelmed, like I don'tunderstand any of this.
But I think these worlds arevery, very separate and there's
(35:02):
a lot of misunderstanding and Istill feel like I don't know a
lot about kink and BDSM.
I really don't feel like that'ssomething I have a lot of
knowledge about.
But what are some of the commonkind of misconceptions or
stereotypes that you see aboutkink and BDSM?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
There are a few, but one of the key differentiators
between those who are kink andBDS branches of you know adult
pleasure, let's say or you know,um, we don't do anything
(36:06):
without consent.
I don't do anything withoutconsent.
If I do not have the explicit,absolute consent of the
individual, nothing's happening,nothing.
So that means that no husband,male partner of some woman seek
to persuade me to do something,as if you know coercion, let's
(36:36):
put it that way, right, there'llbe no coercive.
I don't do anything along thoselines.
I have zero interest in that,because when an individual
hasn't been able to consent tosomething in some territories
it's illegal, but it's justdisrespectful.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Absolutely disrespectful.
So consent is a maindifferentiator.
So, for example, if a scenewere happening and I was at an
event, and let's say it was aBDSM event, this is the way that
we behave.
Somebody could be having a playsession and in BDSM events
(37:24):
particularly, play sessions arenot necessarily sexual In fact,
the Vast Madrug will not be butbut you witness things that
you'd be like, wow, that's hotor that's crazy or whatever.
Um, and there's a whole waythat you respect a scene that
somebody else is in, or even ifit were sexual as well as kind
(37:47):
of kink focused, there's a waythat you would respect that you
do not interrupt it, you do nottalk while people are doing
whatever, you don't stare themdown.
There are so many things.
They're all unwritten rules butpeople follow them because they
understand what it means to beon the other side.
(38:09):
They know that they don't wantto be weirded out by some guy
masturbating in the corner totheir scene.
That kind of stuff, in kinkterms, is foreboding.
It's a no-no, it really is ano-no.
Oh yeah, really is a no, no.
(38:36):
Whereas if you're, if you're ina maybe not a swing club, but a
party, sex party, etc.
And you know someone's havingsex with someone and then, all
of a sudden, you know some guy'shand creeps up the leg of the
woman while sex is happening orhe's grabbing and and you know
her breasts or whatever.
Like that's almost permitted asalmost as like, well, you're in
a sex party, that kind ofshit's going to happen.
(38:59):
Yeah, if that were happening ina, in a bdsm context, and it
was just pure sex, even evenwithin a bdm context, in terms
of those are the people who arethere, that nobody would be able
to unless you're invitedexplicitly, right, invited in,
yeah, hey, why don't you comeover?
(39:19):
And then you know that someoneentering the scene and being
actively involved in the scene,those two things are decidedly
different between the two groups, decidedly so.
If you talk to any kinks who goto a swinging club, they
normally come back with horrorstories and go how?
And this guy just kind of cameup and he just touched me,
(39:42):
da-da-da, because they used toconsent.
And those guys are just thereon the basis of, hey, you're in
a swingers club, you know you'reat a sex party, you know I
should be able to touch you.
That is the main differencebetween the two environments.
Wow, and it's that I don't wantto say rigid per se, but it's
(40:07):
there's.
There's an ethos to the way thatwe do stuff, because we will do
stuff.
Look, I've been in a sex partyand I've been doing kink, you
know, impact play and andwitches could be hitting
someone's bank, flogging them,whatever.
And I have stopped peoplehaving sex through the manner of
(40:28):
what I have been doing with mypartner because they're like,
I'm not used to that.
That looks really dangerous,right, that looks like he's
hurting this person and it takesthem out of them having sex,
whereas we're just in the zoneenjoying ourselves left, right
and center.
And if it were the other wayaround, and two people are
(40:48):
having sex and it's a kinkyenvironment, nobody gives a
stuff about them having sex.
So there's a real difference interms of ethos, and I do bring
that in terms of how I engagewith people, and I suspect
that's why it's so radicallydifferent for those who engage
with me, because then it'salmost as if the world is
(41:10):
flipped upside down for them,right, um, when they're engaging
with with me, because it's like, oh, I'm not used to this, and
then they're more intrigued andthey want to know more.
And how have you come aboutthis, how have you come to this
way of thinking?
And then I'll you know if Iidentify someone like I was
identified by a couple.
I bet, um, all those thoseyears back and they went oh,
(41:30):
you're like us, but you justdon't know.
And I was like what?
do you mean?
What do you mean?
And they talked about you knowbeing on the kink scene and gang
stuff and it made me go, oh,yeah, okay, I need to
investigate that.
Yeah, and that and that couplewas my transition, because they
were the ones who kind of kickedthe door open in my mind as
(41:53):
into like, oh, there's more yeahright and that's, and that's
kind of where I went.
That's that was my.
You know, um through the doormoment or alice through the
looking glass moment, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
It sounds like the kink BDSM community has really
really fine tuned the wholeconsent culture and I feel like
the cuckolding lifestyleabsolutely needs to adopt that.
On that note, I've had someconversations about safety in
(42:28):
the lifestyle over the pastseveral months and one of the
things that I have been reallyhorrified with over the last
decade is seeing how many timesbulls in the lifestyle get
approached by husbands who wantthem to secretly.
They want to arrange for thisguy to come and hit on his wife
(42:51):
and flirt with her and pressureher for sex and hopefully then
she will turn her no forcuckolding into a yes and make
things happen in that sneaky,deceitful, coercive kind of way.
Has this happened to you before?
Have husbands approachedhusbands, um approached you and
asked you to do something likethat before?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yes, I have.
I have had that Um.
I still get that on occasion,um, and it's always a no, um.
It would be a no from mebecause it just should be.
You know, I appreciate thathe's thinking really hard about
(43:36):
this experience that he wishesto have and he believes that,
you know, his wife will onlylike it if she understood what
it was about, and I just needthe right guy to show her what
it's about.
Yeah, no, you don't, um.
But it's hard for them tounderstand because a lot of men
don't really grasp coercion,what it feels like from the
(44:01):
other side.
They don't understand what it,what it feels like from the
other side.
They just kind of think that'sthe normal, you know, hey, you
know men and women interactionkind of thing, and it really
isn't.
It really isn't.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, it's pretty awful.
So along that line of consent,um, and having said that, I
really so along that line ofconsent and having said that, I
really really hope that as acommunity and the cuckolding
lifestyle as a community, wetake some notes from the kink,
bdsm community and really startto build a culture, a new
culture of health and safety,but especially for women.
(44:41):
How do you personally I knowthis is a big part of who you
are you said it's all aboutconsent and that this is really
important to you.
What does that actually looklike?
How do you establish consentand how do you maintain consent
through these encounters withpeople?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
so you establish consent by open communication?
Um, uh, the open communication,the open communication part, is
establishing an understandingof what's important to them.
What are they okay with, whatare they not okay with?
Speaker 1 (45:20):
What if she says I don't know?
Speaker 2 (45:23):
If she says she doesn't know, that's fine,
because it can be worked out.
And what I mean by that is thatyou know?
Do you have an interest in it?
Yes, do you know what you like?
No, that's fine, you've alreadyestablished you have an
interest?
Okay, that's fine, you'vealready established.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
You have an interest.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Okay, that's fine, and then I would probably elicit
a number of questions to go.
So, what do you think about?
What are the things that bringyou to?
You know that you find eroticor horny, make you horny or
whatever.
So I would kind of use thatinformation as a way to kind of
(46:12):
as a guide to okay, so we canmaybe go in this direction.
You know what is she thinkingabout with regard to you know
the husband or partner, what'simportant, you know, in terms of
the type of feelings that shegets when she's doing X, y or Z
or thinking about X, y or Z.
So what tends to happen is thatwe're so used to those of us who
do, we're so used to askingquestions.
(46:32):
We can use and frame questionsthat will guide us, because
we're getting that data let'sput it that way, I'll put it
from a geek perspective thatdata from that individual that
I'll then use, interpolate andthen be able to go all right,
this is the direction, and thenI can reconfirm it with them as
(46:54):
well.
So it can be a case of hey, youtalked about X, y and Z, see
how this is.
And then they go oh God, Ireally like that.
Or actually, oh god, I reallylike that, or actually, maybe we
could change that.
So it's, it's.
It's simple when you come froma background of always asking
questions okay, that makes a lotof sense.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
It is about a curiosity, but it's about, uh,
the willingness to learn and askthe questions, and some people
might feel like asking thosequestions feels awkward, it
takes away the sexy component ofthings and whatever.
But I will always remember thevery first time that I had a
sort of kinky BDSM encounter.
I basically like this is backin the swinging days I met this
(47:38):
couple who I absolutely love andadore I'm still friends with
today who were very into bondageand BDSM stuff, and anyway,
they lived in different citiesat the time and she wanted to
surprise her husband with me asa like a surprise thing.
(47:58):
And so she basically just gavehim my address and said you know
, bring your all your toys andgo and knock on the door.
And so I was like all excited.
I'm like, oh, this will be fun.
And so when he answered, when Ianswered the door, he knocked
on the door.
I answered it.
He's like, oh, it's you.
So funny.
But he had a duffel bag full ofall this stuff and I just like,
(48:23):
oh, wow, like he brought yeahhe brought a fucking machine, a
bunch of dildos and like allthis like I don't remember, like
, like kinky stuff and I was,but he was all I could like.
He was so interesting becausehe was so experienced and knew
what he was doing that he usedthe red light, yellow light,
(48:45):
green light thing yeah, you knowin terms of that, yeah and safe
word yeah, and it wasn't weird.
It didn't take away from thelike heat of the moment and the
sexiness of it for me and itfelt actually very calming for
me, very like.
I felt very safe and in doingso I just I felt very relaxed.
(49:10):
I was like, oh, he knows whathe's doing.
I feel OK, like I have thetools to be able to stop at any
point in time or say that Idon't like this or whatever.
It was amazing.
Ok, the nickname for thefucking machine was the
destroyer.
It was so funny.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Why am I not surprised by that.
Why am I not surprised by that?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
But it was the first time that I had been tied up.
But he asked me all thesequestions about that beforehand,
like what would you prefer thisor that or whatever, and like I
just it was great.
Now I left that experiencethinking like wow, okay, that's
really how it should be done,like not just a kinky encounter,
but any encounter, anyexperience that I have there
(49:51):
should.
I should have that feeling ofokay, this is you know, I feel
safe here, like this is okay,this is good.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Absolutely.
And if you were to, and, what'sreally interesting, if you were
to talk to other women andwhich I know you do you know
they would always turn aroundand say, wow, I like the idea of
being asked.
I find that, you know, prettykind of sexy.
But if you want to ask men, ifthose men come from a BDSM
(50:24):
perspective, they go yeah, thatshit's sexy.
You know we can do stuff whenI'm asking questions, et cetera.
I know exactly what they like.
Da, da, da.
But if you were asking men whodon't come from that tradition
and they're just like, I'd feelawkward.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Maybe asking this you know question because in their
minds they're thinking tothemselves maybe, maybe she
doesn't maybe she might rejectme if I really say what I want
to do.
Yeah, you know, as opposed toyou know we'll turn around and
say we're you know?
What is it that you want to do?
What is it you want toexperience, how do you want to,
and kind of go from there.
So it's it's.
It really is quite different interms of for those who were
(51:06):
kind of schooled in anunderstanding of BDSM and kink
and how they approach it, andfor those who, you know, just
want the fun of sex.
They are two very, verydifferent things.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, very, very different.
Okay, my last question.
This is going to be afascinating conversation for
people to listen to, I'm sure,because there's a lot of couples
out there or individuals outthere who are listening, who are
like, wow, mind blown.
I totally would love to go downthis road.
(51:38):
I would love to explore this.
This sounds like a lot of fun.
This, this sounds like a lot offun.
Or maybe they're thinking thisis something I've always wanted
to do.
This is a great time for me toactually start to do this.
How do couples actually howshould couples what would you
recommend if they are wanting togo down this road of a kinky,
bdsm cuckold dynamic withsomebody?
(52:00):
How best to do that?
Speaker 2 (52:04):
So I would normally turn around and say you know,
doesn't matter where you are,you know, check out your, your
local, you know kind of kinkcommunity, whether it be socials
, munchies, um, as we call them,you know, um, go along, find
out, you know what's going on inthe local area and to try and
(52:26):
understand you know those peopleand you'll find that most of
them are just like you.
You just didn't know that youknow kind of thing.
So you know they're just likeyou and they're curious and
they're interested in X, y or Zand themselves.
And then that will kind of letyou immerse yourself with people
(52:50):
who will mainly beconsent-driven.
They'll just want to chat toyou, They'll just want to do
that.
You'll find it's not apressured thing, it's very much
a kind of hey, we're socialbecause people in the King Media
community they meet upregularly here in London we meet
up regular, we're at differentevents et cetera, and socials,
we'll see each other and so on.
(53:11):
We're kind of in that way.
So we get to then have a widercircle of people.
Understand people talk topeople about hey, what are you
into, what do you like, what'simportant to you, and so on, and
then from there what'simportant to you, da-da-da and
so on, and then from there youget a better understanding of
what is the ethos that sitsbehind those who are involved in
(53:32):
kink and BDSM, which will thenallow you to then know how
someone's approaching you and,more to the point, whether they
are genuine in terms of whatthey say.
It's easy for some guy to say,hey, I'm a dominant, but not
have any understanding of thepsychology of dominance, the
understanding of how youinteract with people, and that,
(53:54):
the fact is, being dominantmeans you have a responsibility,
and being dominant also meansyou have to have internal
discipline, self-discipline, andif those things are not there
and you don't know anythingabout king, you could have some
bad experiences before you knowit.
But once you kind of have mixedwith people and you get an
understanding, you're listeningto different voices pretty early
(54:16):
on and you're hearing aconsistency from all these
different voices about howpeople approach things, what
they do, why they do it, etc.
It will help.
So that's what I would normallyrecommend to those who maybe
have a little bit of an interestand go oh right, this, you know
, the kinky stuff sounds reallyinteresting, you know, whether
it be, you know, rope or shibarias we like to call it, and
(54:39):
whatever all these things thatyou can.
You can.
You can connect with thecommunity, find out what's going
on, build your knowledge andthen use that to have your own
adventures and experiences.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
I love that.
My biggest takeaways from thisconversation with you is how you
said that all of this is aboutlearning about who you are, is
learning more about who you are,but that a big part of this
involves learning who thecouples are or the other
individual is, and that this isall very consent-driven and that
(55:15):
that's such a differentiatingfactor to other kind of
lifestyles that are out there.
I was just like wow, mind blown.
I think it's so cool that youhave really shone a light on
what all of this is, because,like I said, this is seems like
something that so many guyscouples really think about and
desire, but don't really knowhow or where to go about finding
(55:41):
this, so your advice isdefinitely appreciated.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Where can people learn moreabout you?
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Well, I'm on FetLife and that's my kind of main space
because it allows me tointeract with all other fellow
kinksters out there.
So if someone's listened tothis and I'm happy to answer any
questions um that people mayhave um, then yeah, um, you know
(56:12):
, lascivious nature uh is my umprofile name on fet.
Um, uh, literally spelled aslascivious nature fits very much
with my primal self.
So you know, yeah, um, peoplecan turn around and see me there
.
So, um, yeah, it's, it's.
(56:34):
Look, I've been a listener, um,you know, I have my regular
drop of your podcast in my feed,um, and every time I'd be
listening I'd be thinking,surely, surely she's gonna have
someone on who's kind of comingfrom a kink and bdsm perspective
and talking about how thatinteracts, and and you didn't I
know it's been missing thiswhole time and you didn't.
(56:57):
And I've been quite kind ofsurprised and not surprised
because I think you know, whenwe're in london and we had the
conversation, I said look, um,it surprises me how few black
men in particular kind of seethat kind of kink of BDSM space
as one that they can happilyinhabit and understand.
Well, you know, I know, thatthat kind of stuff is a
(57:22):
colloquialism we don't use overhere Freaky.
You know, when someone saysfreaky, I'm like OK, I think
it's like outside of yourcomfort space of self, whereas
you know King and BDSM is aboutyou, um, uh, removing yourself
(57:44):
from a comfortable space, beingin, you know, a space where you
challenge yourself, um, in yourexperiences or that with you
know, other people, um, and youknow I want and want to see more
, um, black men, women, peopleof color, regardless, involved
(58:05):
in it, because it really doesbenefit you, it really tells you
about yourself and allows youto be able to interact with
people in a different way.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
And learn more about yourself along the way.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
No two ways about it.
So I'm glad that maybe I wasthe quote unquote first person
to come on and be a guest fromthat perspective.
But yeah, it's been a realpleasure.
Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah, I'm so happy to have you on the show.
Thank you so much.
You're most welcome that's goingto be it for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Make sure you go tovenuscuckoldresscom.
That's where you can book aprivate chat with me, and you
(58:53):
can also join the queen'squarters community and get all
the amazing benefits, like theprivate podcast and the helpful
cuck tier, where you can get keyholding for the private
Snapchat group, monthly privatechats with me and weekly live
hangouts and invites to speciallive events.
Oh, and you can also submit aquestion or confession for the
(59:16):
show.
Just go to venuscuckledresscomand click on the link that says
the podcast.
Make sure you follow me on BlueSky Social.
Yes, I said Blue Sky Social.
Fuck Twitter.
My handle there is atCuckoldressV.
All right, that's it fortoday's show, you guys.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
King, and BDSM, by its very nature, is as much
about your own psychology andunderstanding your psychology,
because when you understandyourself, you're better able to
understand others.
You want to understand others.
You want to be able tounderstand what drives them to
do X.
That level of curiosity sitswithin a lot of people within
(00:24):
the kind of King of BDSMcommunity.
There wouldn't be a thing whereI'd be like, let's say, for
example, if I were meeting acouple and I'm all they're
feeling this overwhelmingdominant energy, you know I'm
literally on the leash, kind ofwanting to snap off it and do
something More.
(00:45):
It will be very controlled,very disciplined and very clear.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh, that's hot.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And she came in and we locked eyes and I was like,
oh, I'm going to eat you, I'mgoing to devour you, and that
that was just on.
Look, we didn't speak any wordsto each other, but she looked
at me and she was like shelooked like prey, like she knew
she was going to be hunted a bitlater on in the party, I had
(01:18):
some time, etc.
And then when I saw her, thatwas it.
I mean, it was.
It was just as we like to saycolloquially here bonkers, just
off the charts.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
What you're telling me is exactly what these women
are asking for.
Oh my God, everything justclicked right now, holy shit.
Everything just clicked rightnow, holy shit.
This is the Venus Cuckoldrispodcast, a place to learn all
things cuckolding for thecurious, for the passionate and
(01:56):
for the sexually empowered womanwho wants it all.
Let's go, welcome to the show.
(02:16):
I'm your host, venus.
Thanks for joining me today.
Today I have victor, who is myfriend that I actually met in
person when I was in London formy meet and greet there, the
event that I did recently, andwhat a conversation that we had,
and I thought I have to havethis guy on the show.
So today he's going to talkabout the mind-blowing
(02:40):
intersection of BDSM andcuckolding, and I remember what
back when I had Dr Justin LeeMiller on the show.
He is the author of Tell Mewhat you Want, the book, which
is fantastic, and also he hasthe podcast, one of my favorite
podcasts Sex and Psychology.
When he was on the show, hetalked about, or he mentioned
(03:02):
something about how men whofantasize about cuckolding
generally have quite kinky asfar as the BDSM aspects of
cuckold fantasy less and less sofor the women who I've spoken
(03:37):
to.
So this show is going to betalking all about kink and BDSM
when it comes to cuckolding,what that is, what that looks
like, how to get into it and allof the stuff that surrounds it.
I think that all the cucks aregoing to find this one really,
really interesting.
But also for any bulls whomight be listening and maybe
(03:59):
you're new, maybe you'reinterested in learning about the
dynamic, about submission anddominance and that kind of thing
this episode is a great placeto start that educational
journey, because Victor is afantastic, experienced person to
talk on this subject, so Ithink you're going to really
(04:21):
like it.
I learned so much from thisepisode.
It's amazing how manyconversations and episodes I've
done regarding cuckolding and Inever stop learning.
I took away so much from thisshow today and I think you are
too.
I think you're going to love it.
But first I have a couple ofannouncements, just quick ones.
(04:42):
I'm doing a live chat in theQueens Quarters community on
Thursday, july 3.
And that'll be at 12pm PacificTime, so that's 3pm Eastern.
It's free for anybody to join.
It's a live chat.
We're just going to do aregular general kind of Q&A
discussion.
The last one I did was so funand I think we talked for like
(05:03):
two fucking hours.
So it was great.
Lots of conversations you canjump in, you can ask questions,
you can learn stuff, you canmeet people all that good stuff.
So check out the link to RSVPfor that chat.
It's in the description notesfor today's episode, or you can
just go to venuscuckledresscom.
Click on the events tab.
(05:25):
Second, I haven't asked for thisin a really long time, but I'm
going to put it out there.
If you love this show, please,pretty please, would you rate
and review it on Apple Podcastsor whatever podcast platform
you're listening on.
I would appreciate that so muchand it would mean a lot to me.
All right, that's it forannouncements.
(05:47):
Now let's jump into the show.
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Joining me on the show, I haveVictor.
Victor is a what he callsprimal individual and this
(07:18):
drives his passions.
He's here to talk about how heis a big fan of kink and BDSM in
cuckolding in the bull role.
So welcome to the show, victor.
Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, hello.
Thank you, Venus, for invitingme onto your podcast.
It's really great to be here.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And we got to meet in person in London.
I had a meet and greet eventrecently in London and I got to
meet Victor there and we had agreat conversation and said hey,
I would love to have you on theshow.
So I'm really excited for youto come here and talk about your
story and you're very unique Idon't want to say unique, but I
(07:53):
think it's fascinating take onthe bull role in cuckolding.
So welcome to the show.
Thank you, all right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you, started a long time ago, if I just kind of
put.
Let me just put it out there.
It started a long time ago.
Um, there's, there's a coupleof ways of me kind of looking at
this.
There was I've always had aninterest in um, in kink and bdsm
, and I know we'll talk moreabout that, but I've always had
an interest in it from a fairlyyoung age, without really
understanding why.
And then in my teens I realizedthat I had a side of me that
(08:57):
felt very dark, very raw, dark,very raw, and you know what I
call primal nowadays and youknow other primals will
understand that it wasinteresting to have it so young
and I used to suppress it.
I used to, you know, like no,no, no, no.
(09:20):
This side of me is clearly verydangerous.
I have no intention of allowingit out, and actually over a
long period of time.
When you suppress anythingabout oneself and we can do that
when we're teenagers, we'retrying to work out who we are,
we're trying to understandourselves relative to our
(09:42):
friends and peer group and allof that kind of stuff and I just
remember this side felt like Ihad to hide it, and it wasn't
until later on in life, my verylate 20s, when I kind of was
able to return to it.
I ended a relationship.
(10:04):
I remember thinking to myselfone I don't want to make those
mistakes you know ended arelationship.
I remember thinking to myselfone, I don't want to make those
mistakes I made in arelationship, again those type
of mistakes.
And two, I think I need tounderstand who I am.
And then I kind of went and andthat understanding who I was
was as much about my sexualityand sexual side as well as other
things.
(10:24):
So, yeah, I just kind of, youknow early days of internet and
the you know early 2000s, veryearly late 90s, early 2000s, and
there I was in and you know,before I know it I was, um, yeah
, meeting people ratherunexpectedly.
And so that was like in kinkyspaces kind of thing yeah, it
(10:48):
was um, uh, I think the old kindof I don't know they're still
around, I suppose uh, you know,kind of adult friend finder and
that kind of stuff from way backwhen, um, yeah, and I would.
And there were other kind ofmore swinging sites from you
know that period of time thatwere quite popular here and yeah
(11:13):
, I just kind of looked around,explored, kind of went on them
and then I started meetingpeople.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
And I remember the first couple I met.
Was that when you first learnedabout cuckolding?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
yeah, I mean that was the first experience.
It wasn't even like oh yeah, Ijust it just felt all right and
so I'm meeting these couples,right, okay, fine, and that was
that, and it felt natural and itfelt very normal and it was
really interesting, but less ofa community than it might be
(11:51):
today, less material to readabout it than you would have
today in terms of doing researchand understanding Cock-holing,
what's it about and you know, etcetera, and what's my role, and
you can do that today.
Back then you just you justdidn't have that material.
You had to meet people, haveyour experience and go away and
process it.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, you had to fuck around and find out, right?
I mean that's what you learn asyou go Right.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And yeah, all on the job, all on the job.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh man, we are so lucky today that we have so much
resources and so muchinformation out there to be able
to learn about this.
But yeah, back then it was justlike whatever.
And so when you met with yourfirst couple, was it just like
regular sex with her or was itkinky at all?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
No, I mean, at the beginning it was very much more
regular.
It was trying to understand so,okay, so you want me, husband,
to have sex with your wife,right?
And that kind of in my head I'mthinking these things, I'm
thinking, okay, this is kind ofnormal, um, but at that time it
(13:06):
was just more sexual because Ididn't yet have that mindset and
I hadn't fully traversed intokind of kink and bdsm um, and it
was basically me meeting morepeople, um, that then made me
transition, made me kind of wantto explore the kind of kink
(13:30):
side of things.
So yeah, at the beginning itwas like, wow, this is a new
experience.
Huh, how do I feel about that?
You know, it was a lot of thatas I went away from them or you
know, engaging with couples andtrying to understand what do
they want, what do they wantfrom me, and also for it to feel
good for me as a then youngblack guy who didn't really know
(13:57):
anything about this whole kindof hey, we're, you know, we're
into black guys, we, you knowthe kind of whole black bull
thing, bull thing.
I mean, none of that was knownto me fascinating.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So I this is this is so interesting to me because
there's guys out there who will,you know, be the, the third,
the, be the guy to fuck the wife, and it it's all about just
having lots of sex.
But then there's like the fewguys who, like yourself, who
have those experiences andsomething kind of it's like a
flip that switches and there'sthis real curiosity to learn
(14:33):
about the dynamic of the coupleand how you fit into that and
all of that.
And I think that's where itkind of distinguishes guys who
really enjoy that kind ofexperience versus guys who just
want pussy.
So I'm assuming that thoseexperiences for you kind of flip
(14:58):
that switch and you were like,oh, I can fuck with this game,
like I've, like you get, likeyou start to understand the
mental aspect of it which Ithink correct me if I'm wrong is
a big aspect of the kink andBDSM right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yes, Kink and BDSM by its very nature, and is as much
about your own psychology andunderstanding your psychology,
because when you understandyourself you're better able to
understand others.
You want to understand others,you want, you want to be able to
understand what drives them todo x or behave in in y way.
(15:36):
Or you know, um.
So what were you thinking aboutwhen you did that?
You know kind kind of thing.
So that level of curiosity sitswithin a lot of people, within
the kind of King of BDSMcommunity.
You know, and it doesn't matterwhether you're a D type, a
dominant, whether you're an Stype, in terms of a submissive,
(15:59):
you know it doesn't matter.
If you're a switch, it doesn'tmatter, you know where you may
be, it doesn't matter if you'rea switch, it doesn't matter, you
know where you may be.
You are driven by wanting tounderstand.
So you know, if you come from amore dominant perspective, you
want to understand.
Well, what kind of submissiveindividual is this?
And even you know there's notone type of submissive
(16:22):
individual.
There's different branches ofthat.
It could be an obedientsubmissive, it could be a sexual
submissive, it could be aservice submissive.
You suddenly realize it's aplethora, it's enormous, it's a
universe and it's like travelingfrom one star to another to see
a whole group of differentplanets and then marveling at
(16:44):
wow, and then taking thatinformation and and traveling
somewhere else and go all right.
So when I was there, I rememberthis.
This might be of use here.
Let me apply it.
So everything is is aboutapplication, understanding
environment and applying it, andmy mind works like that as a
natural thing.
I'm uh, you, you know, let menot say it loudly, but I'm geeky
(17:05):
, so you know I might not lookit.
You've seen me, I don't look it, but you know I am geeky.
So everything for me is abouthow does it work, why does it do
what it does, et cetera.
Blah, blah, blah.
So the the aspect of maybe youknow, as you put it, chasing
pussy is never going to befulfilling to me.
(17:28):
It was never going to befulfilling.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I didn't know that immediately, but I found that
out, maybe much more quicklythan others might so there's
gonna be a lot of people who arelistening to this show who are
not familiar with the differentlabels and terms and kinky bdsm,
(17:50):
um, what you call yourself aprimal what exactly is that?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
well, some people will kind of have, you know, a
couple of different definitionsbecause there's different types
of primal individuals.
To some people their primalsense means they identify with,
maybe a particular type ofanimal.
It could be a bear, it could bea wolf, it could be that that
(18:19):
kind of instincts of that animalthey feel within themselves.
So that's kind of one form ofhaving a primal personality.
My, um, primal nature is justdriven by a very raw base side
(18:41):
of me.
This part of me is like is, is,is, it's almost.
It's like he just goes oh, Ican see you and I know you can
see me If he identifies anotherprimal individual.
And then everything becomes likeall bets are off from there,
(19:02):
literally, and I've had thatexperience.
You know primal partners,partners, you know people I've
met.
I remember I used to beinvolved in a party, um kind of
you know, uh, actually funnyenough, it was a um kind of
black guys couples party, uh,and I used to be there and I
(19:25):
used to help organize and runthe dungeon, and so people would
come to me for the kind of kinkand BDSM part, those who kind
of were interested in that.
But most people would behappily fucking the property and
enjoying themselves left, rightand center.
And what I found was reallyinteresting is that a lot of
(19:46):
people knew me, but some peoplewould say to me I've never seen
you do anything with anyone.
Oh, like you come in here andlike you don't drop your
trousers, you know, you know,like they just they just could
not get their heads around it.
They just like, and I said, andI used to tell them that I'm
(20:07):
here, you know, for you knowother people's enjoyment per se.
But they said the sex doesn'treally kind of, you know, run it
for me as pure.
It has to have a BDSM element,a kink element to it.
And on one occasion some guythat I know brought this woman
(20:27):
and she came in and we lockedeyes and I was like, oh, I'm
gonna eat you, I'm gonna devouryou, and that was just on.
Look, we didn't speak any wordsto each other, but she looked
at me and she was like pray.
She looked like pray, like sheknew she was going to be hunted.
(20:50):
And you know, uh, a bit lateron in the party I had some time,
etc.
And then when I saw her, thatwas it.
I mean, it was, it was just aswe like to say colloquially here
, bonkers, just off the charts.
And it was really funny becauseafterwards we were just kind of
(21:14):
chatting, you know, after wekind of had a session with each
other, and she just said I feltyou as soon as I walked into the
room and I just knew that youknow, I had to do as you told me
.
And I said to her oh yeah,you're primal but you're prey,
and she was like what's that?
(21:34):
And so therefore, I was justtalking to her about that.
I said it felt very visceral, itfelt very raw, it just you
couldn't really change your mindabout things.
You just knew instinctuallybecause it's a very instinctual
thing, this whole aspect ofbeing primal is very instinctual
.
So even the sex is just like,whatever it's going to be,
(22:01):
there's no, oh, you do this, youdo that.
No, it's like hearing two foxesoutside, you thinking, wow,
you're making a lot of noise.
What's going on?
It's very, very primal likethat.
So, yes, when, a when a primalindividual eyes another primal,
you, you can feel it.
It's really I can't.
(22:23):
I almost cannot describe it,but anyone who's primal will
understand.
If someone's listening to thisand they happen to be a fellow
primal, go.
Yeah, I know what he's talkingabout well, I I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
It comes from a very natural place like this is not
something that's kind of floofy,made up or made up on the fly
or you you know, role-playing orwhatever that.
This is naturally just who youare and how you like, what your
energy is.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, very much so, um.
And when I, when I was younger,and I had this part of me that
I didn't understand, you couldimagine that I need, I felt I
needed to suppress it because Ithought it was dangerous, you
know it, just he, it was as ifand it was at the time another
(23:15):
entity coming outside and goingI'm driving the bus, get in the
back, victor, I'm in control now, and you know, and my young
self be thinking, oh my god,that's too dangerous and what is
he going to do, kind of thing.
But here I am older, he'sintegrated into me, that's fine,
he's part of me, I'm him, we'reone, and so, therefore, there's
(23:39):
no real issue with regard to it.
I'm just primal.
I prefer maybe other primalindividuals that I will happily
interact with, but you don'thave to be, because here's the
thing as primal as I am, I don'tbehave that way with people who
are not primal.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I can identify them pretty quickly.
They're not, that's fine, I'min control of it.
You know it's all about, about,you know, being in control and
being disciplined.
Um, and that for me is is, youknow, important and easy.
But if somebody didn't knowthey could think, wow, that guy
sounds pretty, pretty kind ofwild.
You know just that that allsounds like uncontrollable, a
(24:24):
bit edgy and etc.
Anyone who's genuine willunderstand.
Anyone who's genuine has beenin it, understands themselves,
understand their primal nature,etc.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Will know when they deploy it from when they don't
okay, that's good, I'm glad tohear that, yay, but how is this
not a dominant energy?
Like, honestly, in cuckoldinghere this all the time, where a
lot of um cucks really fantasizeabout dominant bulls and um who
(24:58):
have that radiant kind ofenergy?
Um, is this, is it?
Is it not the same?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
It is the same in a way, because you know people who
will meet me I mean, obviouslyyou've had the pleasure, but you
know, you know, just in asocial aspect will turn around
and say, wow, you've got a realenergy about you, you've got
(25:25):
something about you that justsays, hmm, and I find that quite
funny because I'm just beingnormal, I'm not thinking about,
hey, I need to project anythingthere's.
There's nothing, um, that I'mthinking about other than, oh,
here I am, let me engage withthis person, and then, but for
them, it's like what they'rereading, what they're feeling,
(25:46):
is something quite different.
So I know that I have an energythat a lot of people react to.
Yes, it is a dominant energy,but it's a dominant energy based
on the fact that I know who Iam.
I'm clear about that, I canarticulate it and I know what my
(26:06):
mission is.
Articulate it and I know whatmy mission is and what I mean by
that.
In saying what my mission is,it's like you know, it's about
enjoyment, but it's aboutenjoyment with a discipline, and
that's something that I thinkwill be understood by some
people but not by others.
(26:28):
So there wouldn't be a thingwhere I'd be like, let's say,
for example, if I were meeting acouple and I'm all they're
feeling this overwhelmingdominant energy, you know I'm
literally on the leash, kind ofwanting to snap off it and do
something More.
(26:48):
It will be very controlled,very disciplined and very clear.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Oh, that's hot.
That's hot Because there'ssomething very powerful about
that that's so much morepowerful than the out of control
I'm going to snap off the leashkind of energy.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, it is.
It is different.
It is very, very different andsome people kind of maybe see it
or think about it as a littlebit reserved.
Maybe it's not quite sure.
No, no, I'm pretty damn sure,and there's nothing reserved.
(27:30):
But there is no need for anoverspill of that energy.
You know it's like let's deploythis amount, let's turn around
and do this, and you know that'show I like it and other people
have liked that too.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Can you give us an idea everyone who's listening,
an idea of what this actuallylooks like in a cuckold dynamic?
This kind of kink, bdsm, primalbull, energy kind of thing?
What does that actually looklike?
(28:07):
Is it typical to what you seein cuck porn?
Probably not.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
No, because even when I think about my early days,
it's quite different.
You do more preparatory work,in a way.
You want to kind of understandwhat the dynamic is between the
individuals if they'veapproached you, or even if you
see something and you approachthem, you'd be like okay, I want
(28:35):
to understand about you and thefirst thing that you normally
turn around and say there's norush here.
Because if someone's in a rushto do something, that tells me
um, a lot about them and they'repeople I will normally avoid
yeah, they'd be people I'd belike no thanks, um.
(28:55):
But if they're more consideredin what they're trying to do,
what they're trying to, you know, effectuate lovely word, um,
you know then it's somewhatdifferent, because they're not
telling me oh, you're thinkers,right, you use your brain, right
, you know.
So there's a.
(29:16):
So immediately that falls intokind of that um, psychological
bit which I, you know, what areyou trying to do?
Why are you trying to do it?
What experience have you had?
(29:36):
What's important to you?
What's your dynamic like, youknow, et cetera.
I want to know that, with aview to nothing, and what I mean
by that?
No, zero expectation.
I'm engaged with you, zeroexpectation.
There should be none from yourside, because there's none from
mine.
Let's see where it goes.
(30:00):
I have not heard that before.
Yeah, it's a different approachand again, I appreciate it's
not for everyone, but you'd bequite surprised how many are
kind of slightly taken aback,especially as they may well have
(30:21):
engaged with other bulls, andespecially black bulls, and
they've had something quitedifferent, and then they kind of
go huh, what's going on here?
I think we need to delve alittle deeper, I think we're a
little bit more interested, andthen, before you know it,
they're in that space and you'rekind of like okay, you're here,
(30:43):
that's fine, let's, let's seewhere this goes, but with zero
expectation.
And I mean that I mean evendown to you know, happily meet
up et cetera, and just sit thereand have a conversation and
then make them go away and thinkabout what they've just
(31:04):
experienced.
And again, a lot are not usedto that.
You mean, we're not going to doanything, absolutely not, but
you're going to go away andyou're going to think about it,
and they go away and they thinkabout it and inevitably they're
even more interested.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Because it's almost like what it's a mind fuck?
Yeah, it's a mind fuck, andthat is the psychological aspect
, that's a psychological part,you know, um, but oh my god,
it's fine for me.
It's fine for me because for meit's just like we take our time
(31:47):
victor.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
How many times over the last decade have I heard the
women in this lifestylecomplaining about how they need
to feel a connection they needto?
They they're all.
Just yesterday, I heard a womansay he needs to fuck my mind
before he can fuck my body.
I mean, women are literallylike starved for this mental,
(32:10):
emotional connection with thisguy, not just a dick in pussy,
and what you're telling me isexactly what these women are
asking for.
Oh my God, everything justclicked right now, holy shit.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, but it's, it's.
I mean it's funny you say that.
I mean, look, I'm extremelyfortunate that a lot of the
people for me in the communityhere and a lot of my you know,
very close friends are women.
So I spend my time around womenand I engage with them and they
talk to me and I'm like wow why, don't men understand this?
(32:52):
Why do they not grasp how simpleit is?
But that's driven by this wholekind of thing.
Men are men, women are women,and men think that women are
different species, whereasactually you know that's a human
being.
There are lots ofintersectional stuff that you
(33:13):
both share as human beings, soyou can actually engage with
this person without making themfeel, you know, kind of strange
or weird or they're just onething.
Look, I don't want to say thatmen are lazy, but I am going to
say a lot of men are lazy.
Um, I'm going to turn aroundand say that I'm going to be
upfront.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I didn't say it, he said it.
I did not say it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It feels like it's too much work for them, but at
the same time they don't realizehow much more work they're
doing the way they go aboutthings and how much less work
that I have to do going aboutthe things the way that I do.
But it looks like it.
It it feels like an equation tothem that hey, I'm not here to
(33:58):
do maths, I'm just here forpussy and so therefore, you know
, then, that's what they do,whereas for me it's uh, it's
something deeper, etc.
And the connections are stronger, uh, and so on.
And so, therefore, thoserelationships that I, I make and
cultivate, they're deep andthey last a long time.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I can imagine.
I can definitely imagine.
Now I'm going to ask you abouta couple of things, the first
one being some stereotypes aboutkink and BDSM, because I
remember when I first got intothe non-monogamy world, I jumped
into the swinger's lifestyle asa solo woman, as a unicorn, and
had so much fun with that and Ithought that was kinky and fun.
(34:42):
And then I slowly gotintroduced to cuckolding.
I still didn't reallyunderstand anything about kink.
I remember going on FetLife wayback in the day and being like
so overwhelmed, like I don'tunderstand any of this.
But I think these worlds arevery, very separate and there's
(35:02):
a lot of misunderstanding and Istill feel like I don't know a
lot about kink and BDSM.
I really don't feel like that'ssomething I have a lot of
knowledge about.
But what are some of the commonkind of misconceptions or
stereotypes that you see aboutkink and BDSM?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
There are a few, but one of the key differentiators
between those who are kink andBDS branches of you know adult
pleasure, let's say or you know,um, we don't do anything
(36:06):
without consent.
I don't do anything withoutconsent.
If I do not have the explicit,absolute consent of the
individual, nothing's happening,nothing.
So that means that no husband,male partner of some woman seek
to persuade me to do something,as if you know coercion, let's
(36:36):
put it that way, right, there'llbe no coercive.
I don't do anything along thoselines.
I have zero interest in that,because when an individual
hasn't been able to consent tosomething in some territories
it's illegal, but it's justdisrespectful.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Absolutely disrespectful.
So consent is a maindifferentiator.
So, for example, if a scenewere happening and I was at an
event, and let's say it was aBDSM event, this is the way that
we behave.
Somebody could be having a playsession and in BDSM events
(37:24):
particularly, play sessions arenot necessarily sexual In fact,
the Vast Madrug will not be butbut you witness things that
you'd be like, wow, that's hotor that's crazy or whatever.
Um, and there's a whole waythat you respect a scene that
somebody else is in, or even ifit were sexual as well as kind
(37:47):
of kink focused, there's a waythat you would respect that you
do not interrupt it, you do nottalk while people are doing
whatever, you don't stare themdown.
There are so many things.
They're all unwritten rules butpeople follow them because they
understand what it means to beon the other side.
(38:09):
They know that they don't wantto be weirded out by some guy
masturbating in the corner totheir scene.
That kind of stuff, in kinkterms, is foreboding.
It's a no-no, it really is ano-no.
Oh yeah, really is a no, no.
(38:36):
Whereas if you're, if you're ina maybe not a swing club, but a
party, sex party, etc.
And you know someone's havingsex with someone and then, all
of a sudden, you know some guy'shand creeps up the leg of the
woman while sex is happening orhe's grabbing and and you know
her breasts or whatever.
Like that's almost permitted asalmost as like, well, you're in
a sex party, that kind ofshit's going to happen.
(38:59):
Yeah, if that were happening ina, in a bdsm context, and it
was just pure sex, even evenwithin a bdm context, in terms
of those are the people who arethere, that nobody would be able
to unless you're invitedexplicitly, right, invited in,
yeah, hey, why don't you comeover?
(39:19):
And then you know that someoneentering the scene and being
actively involved in the scene,those two things are decidedly
different between the two groups, decidedly so.
If you talk to any kinks who goto a swinging club, they
normally come back with horrorstories and go how?
And this guy just kind of cameup and he just touched me,
(39:42):
da-da-da, because they used toconsent.
And those guys are just thereon the basis of, hey, you're in
a swingers club, you know you'reat a sex party, you know I
should be able to touch you.
That is the main differencebetween the two environments.
Wow, and it's that I don't wantto say rigid per se, but it's
(40:07):
there's.
There's an ethos to the way thatwe do stuff, because we will do
stuff.
Look, I've been in a sex partyand I've been doing kink, you
know, impact play and andwitches could be hitting
someone's bank, flogging them,whatever.
And I have stopped peoplehaving sex through the manner of
(40:28):
what I have been doing with mypartner because they're like,
I'm not used to that.
That looks really dangerous,right, that looks like he's
hurting this person and it takesthem out of them having sex,
whereas we're just in the zoneenjoying ourselves left, right
and center.
And if it were the other wayaround, and two people are
(40:48):
having sex and it's a kinkyenvironment, nobody gives a
stuff about them having sex.
So there's a real difference interms of ethos, and I do bring
that in terms of how I engagewith people, and I suspect
that's why it's so radicallydifferent for those who engage
with me, because then it'salmost as if the world is
(41:10):
flipped upside down for them,right, um, when they're engaging
with with me, because it's like, oh, I'm not used to this, and
then they're more intrigued andthey want to know more.
And how have you come aboutthis, how have you come to this
way of thinking?
And then I'll you know if Iidentify someone like I was
identified by a couple.
I bet, um, all those thoseyears back and they went oh,
(41:30):
you're like us, but you justdon't know.
And I was like what?
do you mean?
What do you mean?
And they talked about you knowbeing on the kink scene and gang
stuff and it made me go, oh,yeah, okay, I need to
investigate that.
Yeah, and that and that couplewas my transition, because they
were the ones who kind of kickedthe door open in my mind as
(41:53):
into like, oh, there's more yeahright and that's, and that's
kind of where I went.
That's that was my.
You know, um through the doormoment or alice through the
looking glass moment, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
It sounds like the kink BDSM community has really
really fine tuned the wholeconsent culture and I feel like
the cuckolding lifestyleabsolutely needs to adopt that.
On that note, I've had someconversations about safety in
(42:28):
the lifestyle over the pastseveral months and one of the
things that I have been reallyhorrified with over the last
decade is seeing how many timesbulls in the lifestyle get
approached by husbands who wantthem to secretly.
They want to arrange for thisguy to come and hit on his wife
(42:51):
and flirt with her and pressureher for sex and hopefully then
she will turn her no forcuckolding into a yes and make
things happen in that sneaky,deceitful, coercive kind of way.
Has this happened to you before?
Have husbands approachedhusbands, um approached you and
asked you to do something likethat before?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yes, I have.
I have had that Um.
I still get that on occasion,um, and it's always a no, um.
It would be a no from mebecause it just should be.
You know, I appreciate thathe's thinking really hard about
(43:36):
this experience that he wishesto have and he believes that,
you know, his wife will onlylike it if she understood what
it was about, and I just needthe right guy to show her what
it's about.
Yeah, no, you don't, um.
But it's hard for them tounderstand because a lot of men
don't really grasp coercion,what it feels like from the
(44:01):
other side.
They don't understand what it,what it feels like from the
other side.
They just kind of think that'sthe normal, you know, hey, you
know men and women interactionkind of thing, and it really
isn't.
It really isn't.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, it's pretty awful.
So along that line of consent,um, and having said that, I
really so along that line ofconsent and having said that, I
really really hope that as acommunity and the cuckolding
lifestyle as a community, wetake some notes from the kink,
bdsm community and really startto build a culture, a new
culture of health and safety,but especially for women.
(44:41):
How do you personally I knowthis is a big part of who you
are you said it's all aboutconsent and that this is really
important to you.
What does that actually looklike?
How do you establish consentand how do you maintain consent
through these encounters withpeople?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
so you establish consent by open communication?
Um, uh, the open communication,the open communication part, is
establishing an understandingof what's important to them.
What are they okay with, whatare they not okay with?
Speaker 1 (45:20):
What if she says I don't know?
Speaker 2 (45:23):
If she says she doesn't know, that's fine,
because it can be worked out.
And what I mean by that is thatyou know?
Do you have an interest in it?
Yes, do you know what you like?
No, that's fine, you've alreadyestablished you have an
interest?
Okay, that's fine, you'vealready established.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
You have an interest.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Okay, that's fine, and then I would probably elicit
a number of questions to go.
So, what do you think about?
What are the things that bringyou to?
You know that you find eroticor horny, make you horny or
whatever.
So I would kind of use thatinformation as a way to kind of
(46:12):
as a guide to okay, so we canmaybe go in this direction.
You know what is she thinkingabout with regard to you know
the husband or partner, what'simportant, you know, in terms of
the type of feelings that shegets when she's doing X, y or Z
or thinking about X, y or Z.
So what tends to happen is thatwe're so used to those of us who
do, we're so used to askingquestions.
(46:32):
We can use and frame questionsthat will guide us, because
we're getting that data let'sput it that way, I'll put it
from a geek perspective thatdata from that individual that
I'll then use, interpolate andthen be able to go all right,
this is the direction, and thenI can reconfirm it with them as
(46:54):
well.
So it can be a case of hey, youtalked about X, y and Z, see
how this is.
And then they go oh God, Ireally like that.
Or actually, oh god, I reallylike that, or actually, maybe we
could change that.
So it's, it's.
It's simple when you come froma background of always asking
questions okay, that makes a lotof sense.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
It is about a curiosity, but it's about, uh,
the willingness to learn and askthe questions, and some people
might feel like asking thosequestions feels awkward, it
takes away the sexy component ofthings and whatever.
But I will always remember thevery first time that I had a
sort of kinky BDSM encounter.
I basically like this is backin the swinging days I met this
(47:38):
couple who I absolutely love andadore I'm still friends with
today who were very into bondageand BDSM stuff, and anyway,
they lived in different citiesat the time and she wanted to
surprise her husband with me asa like a surprise thing.
(47:58):
And so she basically just gavehim my address and said you know
, bring your all your toys andgo and knock on the door.
And so I was like all excited.
I'm like, oh, this will be fun.
And so when he answered, when Ianswered the door, he knocked
on the door.
I answered it.
He's like, oh, it's you.
So funny.
But he had a duffel bag full ofall this stuff and I just like,
(48:23):
oh, wow, like he brought yeahhe brought a fucking machine, a
bunch of dildos and like allthis like I don't remember, like
, like kinky stuff and I was,but he was all I could like.
He was so interesting becausehe was so experienced and knew
what he was doing that he usedthe red light, yellow light,
(48:45):
green light thing yeah, you knowin terms of that, yeah and safe
word yeah, and it wasn't weird.
It didn't take away from thelike heat of the moment and the
sexiness of it for me and itfelt actually very calming for
me, very like.
I felt very safe and in doingso I just I felt very relaxed.
(49:10):
I was like, oh, he knows whathe's doing.
I feel OK, like I have thetools to be able to stop at any
point in time or say that Idon't like this or whatever.
It was amazing.
Ok, the nickname for thefucking machine was the
destroyer.
It was so funny.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Why am I not surprised by that.
Why am I not surprised by that?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
But it was the first time that I had been tied up.
But he asked me all thesequestions about that beforehand,
like what would you prefer thisor that or whatever, and like I
just it was great.
Now I left that experiencethinking like wow, okay, that's
really how it should be done,like not just a kinky encounter,
but any encounter, anyexperience that I have there
(49:51):
should.
I should have that feeling ofokay, this is you know, I feel
safe here, like this is okay,this is good.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Absolutely.
And if you were to, and, what'sreally interesting, if you were
to talk to other women andwhich I know you do you know
they would always turn aroundand say, wow, I like the idea of
being asked.
I find that, you know, prettykind of sexy.
But if you want to ask men, ifthose men come from a BDSM
(50:24):
perspective, they go yeah, thatshit's sexy.
You know we can do stuff whenI'm asking questions, et cetera.
I know exactly what they like.
Da, da, da.
But if you were asking men whodon't come from that tradition
and they're just like, I'd feelawkward.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Maybe asking this you know question because in their
minds they're thinking tothemselves maybe, maybe she
doesn't maybe she might rejectme if I really say what I want
to do.
Yeah, you know, as opposed toyou know we'll turn around and
say we're you know?
What is it that you want to do?
What is it you want toexperience, how do you want to,
and kind of go from there.
So it's it's.
It really is quite different interms of for those who were
(51:06):
kind of schooled in anunderstanding of BDSM and kink
and how they approach it, andfor those who, you know, just
want the fun of sex.
They are two very, verydifferent things.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, very, very different.
Okay, my last question.
This is going to be afascinating conversation for
people to listen to, I'm sure,because there's a lot of couples
out there or individuals outthere who are listening, who are
like, wow, mind blown.
I totally would love to go downthis road.
(51:38):
I would love to explore this.
This sounds like a lot of fun.
This, this sounds like a lot offun.
Or maybe they're thinking thisis something I've always wanted
to do.
This is a great time for me toactually start to do this.
How do couples actually howshould couples what would you
recommend if they are wanting togo down this road of a kinky,
bdsm cuckold dynamic withsomebody?
(52:00):
How best to do that?
Speaker 2 (52:04):
So I would normally turn around and say you know,
doesn't matter where you are,you know, check out your, your
local, you know kind of kinkcommunity, whether it be socials
, munchies, um, as we call them,you know, um, go along, find
out, you know what's going on inthe local area and to try and
(52:26):
understand you know those peopleand you'll find that most of
them are just like you.
You just didn't know that youknow kind of thing.
So you know they're just likeyou and they're curious and
they're interested in X, y or Zand themselves.
And then that will kind of letyou immerse yourself with people
(52:50):
who will mainly beconsent-driven.
They'll just want to chat toyou, They'll just want to do
that.
You'll find it's not apressured thing, it's very much
a kind of hey, we're socialbecause people in the King Media
community they meet upregularly here in London we meet
up regular, we're at differentevents et cetera, and socials,
we'll see each other and so on.
(53:11):
We're kind of in that way.
So we get to then have a widercircle of people.
Understand people talk topeople about hey, what are you
into, what do you like, what'simportant to you, and so on, and
then from there what'simportant to you, da-da-da and
so on, and then from there youget a better understanding of
what is the ethos that sitsbehind those who are involved in
(53:32):
kink and BDSM, which will thenallow you to then know how
someone's approaching you and,more to the point, whether they
are genuine in terms of whatthey say.
It's easy for some guy to say,hey, I'm a dominant, but not
have any understanding of thepsychology of dominance, the
understanding of how youinteract with people, and that,
(53:54):
the fact is, being dominantmeans you have a responsibility,
and being dominant also meansyou have to have internal
discipline, self-discipline, andif those things are not there
and you don't know anythingabout king, you could have some
bad experiences before you knowit.
But once you kind of have mixedwith people and you get an
understanding, you're listeningto different voices pretty early
(54:16):
on and you're hearing aconsistency from all these
different voices about howpeople approach things, what
they do, why they do it, etc.
It will help.
So that's what I would normallyrecommend to those who maybe
have a little bit of an interestand go oh right, this, you know
, the kinky stuff sounds reallyinteresting, you know, whether
it be, you know, rope or shibarias we like to call it, and
(54:39):
whatever all these things thatyou can.
You can.
You can connect with thecommunity, find out what's going
on, build your knowledge andthen use that to have your own
adventures and experiences.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
I love that.
My biggest takeaways from thisconversation with you is how you
said that all of this is aboutlearning about who you are, is
learning more about who you are,but that a big part of this
involves learning who thecouples are or the other
individual is, and that this isall very consent-driven and that
(55:15):
that's such a differentiatingfactor to other kind of
lifestyles that are out there.
I was just like wow, mind blown.
I think it's so cool that youhave really shone a light on
what all of this is, because,like I said, this is seems like
something that so many guyscouples really think about and
desire, but don't really knowhow or where to go about finding
(55:41):
this, so your advice isdefinitely appreciated.
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Where can people learn moreabout you?
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Well, I'm on FetLife and that's my kind of main space
because it allows me tointeract with all other fellow
kinksters out there.
So if someone's listened tothis and I'm happy to answer any
questions um that people mayhave um, then yeah, um, you know
(56:12):
, lascivious nature uh is my umprofile name on fet.
Um, uh, literally spelled aslascivious nature fits very much
with my primal self.
So you know, yeah, um, peoplecan turn around and see me there
.
So, um, yeah, it's, it's.
(56:34):
Look, I've been a listener, um,you know, I have my regular
drop of your podcast in my feed,um, and every time I'd be
listening I'd be thinking,surely, surely she's gonna have
someone on who's kind of comingfrom a kink and bdsm perspective
and talking about how thatinteracts, and and you didn't I
know it's been missing thiswhole time and you didn't.
(56:57):
And I've been quite kind ofsurprised and not surprised
because I think you know, whenwe're in london and we had the
conversation, I said look, um,it surprises me how few black
men in particular kind of seethat kind of kink of BDSM space
as one that they can happilyinhabit and understand.
Well, you know, I know, thatthat kind of stuff is a
(57:22):
colloquialism we don't use overhere Freaky.
You know, when someone saysfreaky, I'm like OK, I think
it's like outside of yourcomfort space of self, whereas
you know King and BDSM is aboutyou, um, uh, removing yourself
(57:44):
from a comfortable space, beingin, you know, a space where you
challenge yourself, um, in yourexperiences or that with you
know, other people, um, and youknow I want and want to see more
, um, black men, women, peopleof color, regardless, involved
(58:05):
in it, because it really doesbenefit you, it really tells you
about yourself and allows youto be able to interact with
people in a different way.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
And learn more about yourself along the way.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
No two ways about it.
So I'm glad that maybe I wasthe quote unquote first person
to come on and be a guest fromthat perspective.
But yeah, it's been a realpleasure.
Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah, I'm so happy to have you on the show.
Thank you so much.
You're most welcome that's goingto be it for today's episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Make sure you go tovenuscuckoldresscom.
That's where you can book aprivate chat with me, and you
(58:53):
can also join the queen'squarters community and get all
the amazing benefits, like theprivate podcast and the helpful
cuck tier, where you can get keyholding for the private
Snapchat group, monthly privatechats with me and weekly live
hangouts and invites to speciallive events.
Oh, and you can also submit aquestion or confession for the
(59:16):
show.
Just go to venuscuckledresscomand click on the link that says
the podcast.
Make sure you follow me on BlueSky Social.
Yes, I said Blue Sky Social.
Fuck Twitter.
My handle there is atCuckoldressV.
All right, that's it fortoday's show, you guys.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
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