February 11, 2025 • 43 mins
This episode uncovers the role of village hall trustees, delving into their responsibilities, the importance of governance, and how they can engage younger members of the community. Through dialogue with community expert Caro Hart, listeners learn about the journey of becoming a trustee, the collaborative nature of the role, and the joys and challenges associated with it.
• Exploring who can and cannot become a trustee
• Understanding the legal responsibilities of trustees
• The significance of governance in village halls
• Strategies for resolving disputes among trustees
• Encouraging younger community members to become involved
• Resources available for prospective trustees
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Marc Smith (00:01):
Hello, my name is Marc Smith and welcome to the
Village Halls podcast sponsoredby Allied Westminster, the UK's
largest specialist provider ofVillage Hall insurance, and the
home of Village Guard.
So there's a slightly differentformat for this podcast.
I recorded this a few weeks ago, where we were diving into the
(00:21):
world of Village Halls,committees and what it takes to
step into the role of a trustee.
So I approached this topic withvery little prior research and
this is not by accident but bydesign.
I wanted to explore the processas someone who's curious,
asking the questions many mighthave when considering this kind
of responsibility.
So, whether you are alreadypart of a committee or simply
(00:43):
wondering what it takes, join meas we uncover the ins and outs
of becoming a trustee within avillage hall.
So welcome to Season 5, Episode2 of the Village Halls podcast.
Today we have the pleasure ofspeaking with Caro Hart, an
accomplished community trainingconsultant with Dorset Community
Action.
Welcome to the podcast, Caro.
Thank you for having me.
Caro Hart (01:03):
Thank you for having me.
Marc Smith (01:04):
Well, today, as we've discussed, I am going to
wing it because I do a lot ofresearch for my other podcasts,
but for this podcast I thoughtmy ignorance is going to be a
benefit, because this podcast isall about trustees'
responsibilities, so I have noidea where we're going to go for
this.
So hopefully my ignorance isbliss.
So I do have a first question.
(01:26):
I've not got too many questionsgoing to let it take a natural
course, this podcast.
But obviously there's somepeople that can be trustees and
some people that cannot.
So first of all I kind of liketo focus on who cannot be a
trustee um, yeah, that's areally good question.
Caro Hart (01:41):
Um, some people can't be trustees because they've
been convicted of particularcrimes, such as terrorism or
financial fraud or somethinglike that, which is fairly
self-evident.
There's also some restrictionson whether or not you can be a
trustee in the Charities Act.
So most charities you can'thave trustees under 18, but the
(02:05):
new form of charity, theCharitable Incorporated
Organisation, you can havetrustees over 16 years of age.
Marc Smith (02:13):
What would be the difference between those two
types of organisations then, ifone could be 18 and one?
Caro Hart (02:17):
could be 16?
.
We could do a whole podcast onthat alone.
The brief answer is that manyvillage halls have trustees, or
governing documents, as they'realso known, going back to the
1900s, the 1920s, 1950s.
(02:38):
A lot of them were rewritten inthe 1970s and 80s and these
these are trustees.
They may be part of a lease,maybe very ancient.
I've seen them sort of writtenwith curlicues and all sorts
yeah in um in 2011, when thecharities act uh came into force
, there was a modern form ofcharity uh introduced, called
(03:02):
the charitable incorporatedorganization, and you'll
appreciate that a charity, anincorporated charity, um has a
is is a thing on its own.
It's like a business um.
You don't talk about um theboard of marks and spencer.
You talk about marks andspencer because marks and
(03:23):
spencer is a thing over andabove the people who work in it,
and this is what a village hallis, if it's become a registered
charity and the village hallitself can have contracts, can
employ people and so on.
And the big advantage apart fromI I mean some of the provisions
(03:46):
of the older trustees are sortof you've got to have somebody
um on your board from theparochial gardening society,
which, of course, is long gone,so that can be quite confusing
um and it, it um updates all ofthat stuff.
But but mainly, the advantageis that it gives it limits the
(04:10):
liability of trustees.
All right, if it's not anincorporated body, the trustees
are personally liable all rightright that's very interesting
actually yeah, yes, it's a bitlike.
Marc Smith (04:22):
It's like similar, similar to a limited company
that you're not.
Yeah.
Caro Hart (04:27):
It's the same difference between being
self-employed and having alimited company, so that company
is a body corporate.
Marc Smith (04:38):
It's actually quite good that you can be 16, because
there's a lot of people invillages that are young, that
are 16, that are really keen tobe involved nowadays.
So having that reduced is it'sjust a logical next step, isn't
it really to?
Caro Hart (04:50):
to allow people to take care of the community
absolutely, and and a lot ofvillage halls do get into the
mindset, I think, um, becausethey're the people with time,
are the retired people, theolder people?
Um, they tend to be the peoplewho are getting involved.
Although a lot, of, a lot ofpeople in older age are still
(05:12):
working, as I am myself, that'sbeen the traditional and, and
it's not just village halls, umcitizens advice, women's
institutes, they're all um,mostly retired people with
experience, people with greatknowledge and people with that
commitment to the village.
You know, even even if they'reincomers they've only been there
20 years then they have that,that, that passion for the
(05:37):
village.
But that's not to say that theyoung people don't.
People don't um, and quite oftenyou'll find, if you've got a
village hall with um a cricketclub nearby or something, that
they'll work together and theyoung people get involved in
organizing things, becausethat's one of the things about
attracting trustees um, itrarely works to just rock up at
(05:59):
somebody's door and say, look,will you take on the legal
responsibility?
Oh, thank you, slam.
But if you've got somebody, oh,could you come and help
organise the fete, or can youcome and organise the family fun
day and do the stall over thereand they go.
Yeah, yeah, fine, that's just acouple of Saturdays work
(06:21):
Brilliant.
Get to meet some new peopleFantastic.
Saturday's work brilliant.
Um, get to meet some new peoplefantastic, um.
You then say, oh, and can youjust come and put the chairs out
for the film night or help put,um, the the labels on the
jumble sale or something, andsoon that person is volunteering
on a regular basis and then youhave the conversation.
(06:42):
Actually, you've got a lot ofpotential.
You seem really interested.
You're asking good questions.
Would you like to come and findout what's what's involved in
being a trustee?
Marc Smith (06:53):
yeah, I used to do that when I was 18 19 when I
flitted quite a few times inEdinburgh.
I used to invite my mates doyou want to come around for
dinner?
and then it just so happenedthat I had them take stuff to
carry down three flights ofstairs.
That's the hook.
Once you get them in, theycan't leave.
They've got no choice if theywant their dinner.
That's a good way to do becauseI suppose it does show.
(07:14):
If you do that kind ofvolunteering for like one or two
events, it shows it is actuallynot just a boring trusty
responsibility.
It's actually quite interestingto do.
You get to meet people and youget to help your community.
So overall it's actually it's agood way to show them how fun
it can actually be and it's notjust paperwork, yeah, and most,
most village halls trustees.
Caro Hart (07:34):
The trusteeing part of it is the least of it.
It mustn't get lost.
I I always say this to villagehalls it mustn't get lost.
The, the what's calledgovernance, the, the financial
management, doesn't get lost inthe, your enjoyment of all the
family fun days and organizingthe film club and the gardening
(07:55):
club and everything, because, um, it's all got to be um part of
your involvement.
But the trusteeing is somethinga little bit different and a
little bit different of a roleto your day-to-day sort of
(08:15):
volunteering.
And some people have a passionfor it.
They love the organisation andthe policies and the finance and
the accounts and everything.
I mean, yeah, there are madpeople around and some people
just love the community stuffyeah um, and for some it's a
balance off.
Well, I'll do some of that if I,if I'm mainly doing that, yeah,
(08:37):
yeah.
Marc Smith (08:38):
So let's say, obviously I'm over 18 so I can
be a trustee.
So say, I do volunteer at a, ata meeting, to become a trustee.
What, what?
This type of thing I need toknow.
Like you mentioned their legalresponsibilities, so I assume I,
if I become a trustee, I willhave a legal responsibility for
my village hall.
What, what does that all entailthen?
Is that I it sounds quite scary, in all honesty legal
(09:02):
responsibility well, let mestart by unpicking what trustees
actually do.
Caro Hart (09:07):
I've been throwing around terms like governance and
financial and so on.
Basically, your trustees of avillage hall look after the
village hall for both the shortterm and the long term.
Everybody else is kind ofinvolved in oh, let's do a
Christmas thing, let's do anEaster thing, and so on on, but
they're taking the longer view.
(09:27):
They're going.
Actually, in 20 years we've gotto have enough money in the
bank to replace the roof,because it's only on a 50-year
guarantee and it's 30 years old.
And they make decisions aboutthe finances.
You know the higher amounts,enough to cover our expenses for
the year.
(09:48):
Do we have a safeguarding policy?
What about the, the health andsafety regulations?
Are we compliant?
But it's it.
It sounds like quite aresponsible thing.
But the point to emphasise isyou're not doing this on your
own.
You're acting as a committee,as a group of people, and
(10:11):
ideally everybody bringsdifferent skills and knowledge
and experience, maybe livedexperience.
Somebody has lived in thevillage for ages, somebody may
be a retired financeprofessional.
So everybody brings somethingin and a passion for the village
hall and for the community, andso you work together and
support each other to do this,but it's essentially looking
(10:35):
after that organisation, holdingit literally in trust as a
trustee for the future.
As a trustee for the future, um, and it it's really lovely,
because some people serve formany, many years.
Marc Smith (10:50):
Some people only serve for a short time.
Caro Hart (10:51):
Yeah, all of them help that resource.
I mean.
Many village halls these daysare 100, even 150 years old, and
that's a really lovely thing tobe part of um.
And the way they do this is um.
Trustees would need to haveregular meetings.
That might be the beginning orend of a general planning
(11:12):
meeting, or it might be aseparate meeting, um, and they
have to have a record of thosemeetings, either an action point
or more detailed minutes.
They've got to ask forinformation, um so they can make
proper decisions, um.
So that might mean um having aum the accounts, or it might
(11:38):
mean having a report on theplumbing um alterations that are
needed or something.
They need to ask for theinformation that they need to
make that decision.
And so, as a trustee, you haveto read the papers, make sure
you're on top of the details.
Ideally it doesn't alwayshappen, but ideally all of the
(12:02):
trustees will understand thebasics of how to read the
financial information, um, sothey know the position, but
quite often it's the like, thetreasurer, treasurer or chair,
who leads on that and interpretsit for people would that just
be like a balance sheet?
Marc Smith (12:18):
is that the type of thing, like any basic knowledge
or simpler than about balancesheet.
Caro Hart (12:22):
often, um, but particularly when you're
thinking about putting money byfor the longer term, you'd
probably need a written policyaround what's called reserves
and designated funds, so itshows what you're keeping aside
for the future.
And then, if you go for a bitof funding, the funders don't
say look, you've got 10 yearsmoney in the bank.
(12:44):
What are you doing, asking usfor a bit of funding?
the funders don't say, look,you've got 10 years money in the
bank.
What are you doing?
Asking for a thousand poundsBecause you can say, look, we've
got that, we've got thisagainst this, and actually we
need a thousand pounds becausewe want to re-brick the paths or
plant up the sensory garden forthe local blind club or
(13:04):
something like that.
If there's a particular issue,what the trustee board might do
like a rebuilding or aretrofitting insulation or
something they've got a bigproject what the trustee board
might do is get a kind ofworking party together.
(13:28):
So that might be some trustees,but loads of other people can
get involved with expertise,which is another good way of
getting people on the trusteeboard, because you get them
involved in a piece of work andthen they can stay.
But, um, and that may be whereyou bring your expertise you
know if you're a retired um landagent or something you know it
(13:50):
could be that.
that's where your expertiseshines.
To look at the legally bit,what the Charity Commission,
which is the regulatory body ofthe charity sector, says is that
trustees have six main duties.
The first one is ensuring yourcharity is carrying out its
(14:13):
purposes for the public benefit.
And what that means is thatbecause every charity, whether
you're a trust or whether you'rea more modern form of charity,
it will always have social aimsat the top of the document.
We are here for the benefit ofthe village.
Sometimes it's for the reliefof poverty.
(14:35):
There's several different things.
It can be um, and every timethat um, you do something, it's
got to be within that thatobject, those charitable objects
, yeah, and every charity has tobe set up for the public
benefit.
It can't just be a charity thatraises money for the folks at
(15:01):
number six, cherry Tree Lane,which the family and friends of
the founders seem to think weretheir personal savings pot.
It can't work like that.
It's got to work for the publicbenefit.
It's got to work on itspurposes for the public benefit.
(15:28):
And I mentioned this, or Ididn't mention this earlier,
because the second thing is it'sgot to comply with the
governing document.
The second thing is you've gotto comply with the governing
document so that gives thetrustees, the committee, various
powers to do things.
So if you've got money you'resaving up, you may be able to
invest it.
If your governing documentdoesn't say you can invest it,
(15:56):
you can't invest it, and that'sreally important to make sure
that you're following that.
Marc Smith (16:00):
Is that on a per hall basis or is that overall
for all halls?
Caro Hart (16:03):
terms.
But, as I say, because villagehalls have um so many different
types of governing documents,depending on when they were set
up, how they were set up.
Where they were all right, werethey set up by the parochial
council?
Where they?
I've got one that was a grantfrom the local earl of the?
Um of the land and then therewas a public subscription to
(16:28):
build the village hall.
This was in 1922, um, and soyou can imagine that the lease
deed and the and theconstitution is very, very
old-fashioned um and not doesn'tset out the sort of things
you'd expect today, like uminvestments, um what to do if
you're closing down, which isgive the money to another
(16:50):
charity um how you do um.
There's quite a lot in thereabout how you do meetings
nowadays.
There's a thing about you canhave meetings online if it the
snow is is knee deep um, butsome of the older ones you
actually aren't really supposedto be able to have meetings on
zoom um, so it's not a reason um.
(17:14):
I mean, the charity commissionisn't going to bother if um a
village hall um in the depths ofwinter, has a trustee board
meeting by zoom.
The node is going to comebanging on the door, you know,
um, but if you go too far awayfrom from what your actual
(17:35):
governing document says, um,that could present all kinds of
problems, because you're sayingto the village oh, we've set up
a, a, a balloon company, andthey're going, but but we've
been paying our higher fees andeverything on the understanding
you'll do stuff for the village.
Marc Smith (17:52):
Yeah.
Caro Hart (17:53):
Where?
Where's the difference?
So, third thing, pretty obviousact in your charity's best
interests.
And that can be, that can beactually more tricky than it
sounds because, um, sometimesit's not.
It's not easy to know what thebest interests of the village
hall are, the community andopposing views.
(18:14):
So, um, that that can be, umcan take some discussion, some
goodwill to sort out.
So false one is you must manageyour charity's resources
responsibly.
And that's not only aboutmaking good decisions, acting in
your charity's best interest,but it's also about keeping good
(18:35):
records, having goodconversations about how you're
going to spend your money andwhat is needed for the future,
like I said, keeping reservesagainst the roof needing doing
in 20 years.
And similarly, act withreasonable care and skill.
And that's about what I saidearlier about making sure you've
(18:56):
asked the experts.
If you've got a decision tomake, ask the experts, get
somebody down.
There's usually somebody in avillage or a neighboring village
who knows this stuff.
Most people know a retiredbuilder.
So if you, if you, want a firstopinion on, on that naggy bit
in the roof that always letswater in, somebody knows
(19:17):
somebody.
And networking is yourstrongest tool when you're a
trustee, I assure you.
And then, finally, the sixth onethat the Charity Commission
specifies is that your charityis accountable, and that means
having your accounts, yourtrustees and your reports
publicly available.
(19:38):
Doesn't mean having every, everyminute of every meeting or
anything but your annual generalmeeting.
If that's what your governingdocument says you have to do, or
if you don't have to have anannual general meeting, it's
always a good idea to have a onepublic meeting a year to get
people coming in and talking, um, and at that point you might
say we're in reasonable shape,or, um, actually there's a,
(20:01):
there's a challenge coming up,so we're going to raise the
higher prices and be accountableto people.
And it goes back to that what Isaid about being an
organization there for thepublic benefit, not somebody's
personal fiefdom, you know.
So that's, that's what thecheck, the legal bit.
So your legal responsibilitiesare to do your best if you don't
(20:24):
know the answer, talk to somepeople who might do make the
best decisions you cancollectively and to be
transparent and open, becauseyou're a publicly accountable
organization.
So that's that.
Can be a bit scary about how todo that, but you do it together
(20:44):
yeah so I mean, we've talkedabout um asking people whether
they're interested in beingtrustees.
But, um, some people do just popup if they've just moved to the
village or whatever and theysay I'm interested.
So somebody is interested inbeing a trustee.
Um, my, my first um bit ofadvice would be to contact the
(21:10):
organization directly yeah umsomewhere on the on the?
um the website or on thefacebook page.
There there'll be a contact, orjust walk down the road and
knock on the door um and have achat, meet some of the people um
, ideally, you want to betalking to the, the chair of the
(21:31):
trustees, right um, who may ormay not be down in person um.
So have a chat with the chairof trustees, maybe meet some of
the other trustees um.
And if you um are slightly outof area, which isn't so much
with village halls but um,sometimes a, a charity, even
(21:57):
even a community, a communityspace of some description, may
get trustees from out of areaunless it's specifically
restricted in their thing.
Marc Smith (22:06):
So ah, so it'd be restricted, or you can restrict
where people are, like how faraway from the village?
Caro Hart (22:12):
some do.
But then a lot of village hallsthese days where, um, you know,
um, maybe a parish hall closeddown, so it's now covering two
villages or three villages or so, so you may find people from
out of area or it might bepeople who have moved away but
their mum still lives in thevillage, or something like that
(22:35):
who are interested, and theymight find out um on um one of
the online um uh places likereach or do it web.
These are websites where youcan list that you're looking for
trustees ah, I was not awarethat those existed.
Marc Smith (22:52):
I will put a link to those on the website on the
podcast page.
That's very interesting.
Caro Hart (22:57):
Marvelous, marvelous.
Well, they're both marvelous,but do it in particular.
I used to do a course aboutgetting people interested in
volunteering and I used to saythere is a voluntary opportunity
for everybody.
And I used to back that up inreal time by going right what
(23:18):
are you interested in?
And I actually one day found ajob, a volunteer role that was
going into the archives of theImperial War Museum and
inventorying the hundreds ofthousands of uniforms that are
there, and I thought somewherethere is one person for whom
(23:41):
that is the perfect role.
Marc Smith (23:43):
Yeah.
Caro Hart (23:45):
So if you're volunteering, whether you choose
to be a trustee or not, that isthe perfect role, and I would
always say about volunteering,it's so fulfilling.
I've volunteered almost all mylife.
I'm actually a volunteertrustee at the moment for an
organisation.
So what do I do when I finishthe day job?
(24:07):
I go and do more trusteeing umthe other thing is um to um.
Sometimes organizations have umlike open days to try and
attract volunteers.
Village halls might do that.
If, for example, you've um justhad a refurbishment or
(24:28):
something and you're going to doa whole lot more stuff um the
with the new premises, but youneed volunteers, you might have
an open day.
You might have a taster sessionof and you're going to do a
whole lot more stuff with thenew premises, but you need
volunteers.
You might have an open day.
You might have a taster sessionof some of your hirers, things
like that, so you could attendone of those and then talk to
somebody.
And once you've expressedinterest in being a trustee,
(24:49):
ideally what should happen isthat you'll have a slightly more
formal discussion with thechair about what the role is.
Hopefully the chair will saysimilar stuff to what I've just
been saying.
What you should be given orwhat you can download from the
(25:12):
Charity Commission is awonderful little leaflet called
the Essential Trustee centraltrustee and um thoroughly
recommend that if you'reinterested in being um a trustee
, because it just um tells youeverything about it um and then
what you might have unusuallyfor a village hall you might
have an actual interview, aformal interview, all right, um,
hopefully somebody will giveyou a pack of information maybe
(25:34):
the, a copy of the constitution,the last minutes, um, some of
the policies, things like that,annual accounts and they may say
come and sit in on part of themeeting to see how we operate.
That's a good one, particularlyif you're not particularly very
familiar with the process yeahcome and sit in on the meeting,
um go, actually that thosediscussions were really
(25:57):
interesting, that you know I'dbe, I'd be interested in doing
that.
And then, um, at the end of it,um, you have to do a formal
trustees declaration sayingyou're not, that you are over
over 16 or 18 and you haven'tbeen convicted of financial
crime and so on, and you'venever been banned from being a
(26:20):
trustee by the CharityCommission.
And trustees have to do thatevery year, ideally, so that the
organisation can keep on theright side of the law.
Marc Smith (26:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Caro Hart (26:30):
And then finally and some people find this a sticking
point funnily enough, you wouldthen be added, assuming the
Village Hall is an incorporatedcharity, you'd then be added to
the Charity Commission site.
Just your name and the detailsof any other organisations
you're a trustee of would beadded.
(26:52):
You're a trustee of?
Yeah, would be added, and so,um, but on the bright side, the
charity commission would thencontact you and send you
information, and when they umupdate things, they let you know
is that a sticking point?
because people are worried abouthaving their name on the web I
(27:12):
think sometimes I mean theydon't give any name and address,
or yeah just yeah, but it is um.
They do publicly tell peopleyour middle name, which can be
very embarrassing for somepeople.
Marc Smith (27:23):
Oh, really all right .
I'll need to go on the websiteand have a look at these
embarrassing middle names so, um, it's a super thing and
everything.
Caro Hart (27:33):
everything I've said, I suppose, is sort of the top
level stuff.
Quite often village halls are alot more informal, but it is
important to remember that,however informal it is in
practice, you still have thoseformal legal responsibilities.
Yeah, yeah formal legalresponsibilities.
(28:01):
Yeah, yeah, um, I've neverknown um it really to um come
down on people because villagehalls aren't big enough, for I'm
not saying they should doanything they like, but they're
not.
They're not big enough for hugelegal scrutiny, but, um, they
are always under public scrutinyby the rest of the village for
how they're managing.
So it's really useful to makesure they're managing along the
(28:25):
lines of good practice, as I'vesaid about being accountable,
being transparent, but it's afantastic role and people have
such fun with it in villages and, as I say, they make such a
contribution for the longer termfuture of the village.
Marc Smith (28:44):
Now it sounds obviously everyone listening,
and myself included.
It sounds like a lot of work.
So my question is how manytrustees are normally on a board
, because obviously you'll haveto have someone who can do
finance, someone that canbasically take the helm to make
the final decisions.
How many people are on?
Is it a minimum or a maximumamount?
Caro Hart (29:04):
there's usually a minimum of um two right.
Um, some of the older umtrustees have something like 15
or 20 right right because theythey say things, you're going to
have somebody from the WI, fromthe parochial council, from the
gardening club, from theunicorn appreciation society,
(29:25):
and they list all those, most ofwhich are long gone.
So actually you land up with oh, she'll do, she's on the
gardening club, she plays golf,she'll do so.
Ideally, she plays golf, she'lldo so.
It ideally a trustee board formy, for my money, needs to be
(29:46):
between six and seven, becausethat's enough people to have a
range of expertise.
It's, yes, you might have atreasurer, if you're lucky
enough to be able to find atreasurer, you might have a
treasurer staff in the books anda chair.
(30:08):
But the chair and the secretarycan both be revolving roles,
either meeting by meeting oryear by year, so that you know
the responsibility is spread out.
Um, it's like rotary thepresident of a rotary is changed
every year because it's quitean intensive job right you said
(30:28):
about the time commitments forthe actual.
You've got to be really clearabout what is trusteeing and
what is other volunteering yeahif somebody volunteers to open
up every day for whoever'shiring the hall, that's
different from their trusteeresponsibility.
That may take loads of timeyeah, or if somebody's doing the
maintenance or whatever.
As often happens, the trusteesneed to meet, probably uh, once
(30:54):
every three months all right formaybe two to three hours to get
through everything, to agree,to check out that all the
procedures are working, to agreehow the budget is going and to
cover any other jobs getting theaccounts sorted, organising the
(31:16):
AGM, getting more trustees.
Getting the accounts sorted,organising the AGM, getting more
trustees and what they may dois include have a fifth meeting
each year.
That's like an away day, aplanning day, looking for the
longer term future, becausemeetings tend to be just
planning a few months in advance.
Once a year they might want togo, um, have a day or an
(31:40):
afternoon, maybe involve otherpeople, some of the volunteers,
some of the hiring groups, tocome and say, okay, well, for
the next three years, where dowe want to go?
What do we want to do?
Do we want to build a gardenand get money to do a?
Um children's play area?
What do we want to do?
And kind of do that long-termplanning, um.
(32:00):
So I suppose you can do, youcan do trusteeing in about 15
hours a year.
Marc Smith (32:08):
Oh really that's.
Caro Hart (32:10):
That's an incentive right there plus plus a bit of
um, a background, a bit ofhomework yeah, yeah but if you
want to, then get involved insomething, um, like one of those
um task groups I I mentioned,to plan the, the refurbishment,
or or um you might get involvedin, in one of the projects, or
(32:32):
volunteering to run the filmclub or do whatever yeah yeah,
and that that is um, but it'simportant to, particularly when
you're trying to recruit umpeople perhaps who work outside
the village, um, and it's reallyimportant to think about well,
when are they going to beavailable?
(32:53):
yeah so we need to have meetingsin the evenings or weekends, um
, because if you're short oftrustees, this is the sort of
thing you need to think about.
I know one trustee group whowere really pleased that they
got the new vicar on theircommittee.
All right.
And because they wanted to getthat relationship closer with
(33:16):
the church, except that theirmeetings were always on the day
that was the vicar's day off,because vicar's work sunday, it
turns out, and so the vicarcould never come to their
meetings and they were notprepared to move their meeting
because everybody had got othercommitments yeah so they
(33:36):
actually excluded that personwho was perfectly willing to
come and help yeah yeah on that.
So it's that kind of thinkingdon't close, close off.
And if you're trying, if you'vegot a bit of new build on the
end of the village, as so manyvillages do these days and
there's some young familiesthere, there may very well be um
(33:57):
people who would like to getinvolved more closely in the
community.
People's skills that would beuseful to have on the trustee
board.
But having a meeting at halfpast three when they're just
picking up the kids from fromschool, is no use, so you have
to think about, or can we haveit at 11 o'clock in the morning?
blah, blah, blah, um.
(34:19):
And being flexible, being open,helps to get trustees yeah.
Marc Smith (34:25):
So I was going to say, actually what's, what's
your advice?
This is maybe off tangent.
What's the best advice you have, I suppose, for a settling
dispute?
So say that one for the sundayhow do you?
obviously you don't want to fallout with your neighbor or
people on the committee.
On the committee you alwayswant to do it in a nice,
amicable way, but sometimes youget people that don't want to
budge.
So how do you deal with that?
Like it'd be quite handy foryou normal life as well,
(34:47):
actually.
But how do you deal with thatinside the village hall world?
Caro Hart (34:50):
well, the magic answer is actually there, um
most, um, um.
Governing documents have theprovision for voting, so um.
This is why I say have six orseven people, have an uneven
number of people oh yeah, that,yeah, it makes sense um, and if
(35:13):
you've got six or seven people,you have a slightly better
chance of having a range ofviewpoints and ideally you'd
have the meeting.
What you might do is have atrustees meeting on one
particular topic if there was abone of contention, because you
don't want it um, um, hijackinga normal meeting.
(35:35):
So if it turns out there's thisreally contentious issue, you
might have a separate meetingand say we've got two hours and
do the thing I said aboutgetting advice from experts.
Yeah, because people do tend totake positions and stand by
them whether or not we've gotany evidence.
So, actually, do they?
Do they really?
I could be, I could be barkingmad and um.
(36:02):
So what you might do is say,okay, at this meeting we'll have
, um, this local builder comeand do us a presentation about
what is and isn't possible.
Then they go away and we willdebate the issue.
And if you've got a strongchair, what they will do is
something like okay, let'sstructure it like a debate.
Essentially, you can put yourpoint of view.
(36:23):
You put your point of view, youcan refute it, you can refute
the refution, and then we'll allvote yeah um, and if you've
ever done debating at school oranything, that's actually not a
bad way of doing it.
Everybody gets a chance toprepare and to say their point
of view.
The trustees have got anyexpert advice they need or any
(36:44):
reports or something, and theneverybody makes the decision.
But the important thing, andthe bit that so often gets
missed is once the committee hasvoted and made a decision one
way or the other, everybody onthat committee abides by that
decision.
You don't go away and go.
(37:05):
Oh, they're a load of what ashower they are.
they made the wrong decisionBecause you are legally bound by
that decision.
That is the decision of theorganisation.
Marc Smith (37:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's, really interesting,yeah, yeah, because you want.
Once the decision's been made,whether you agree with it or not
, you go with it.
Because it's for this I don'twant to quote from hot fuzz, but
it's for the greater good,isn't it really?
Caro Hart (37:29):
or in the words of the um charity commission, um
act in your charity's bestinterests yes, that's better
from the charity commission, ifI'm honest well, that's very
interesting though yeah so yeah,uh.
Marc Smith (37:47):
So say, if you're a trustee, how?
How is there like a?
You know, obviously the umprime minister and president.
They have a set time.
They can be the president orprime minister.
Is there any set times to be?
If you want to be a trustee for10 years, is there anything
saying you cannot?
Caro Hart (38:03):
um, usually there's no restriction on the length of
time you can be a trustee, right?
Um, it's all?
Um should be covered in yourgoverning document.
But if it's an older one it maynot say yeah, what?
What is usually restricted isthe length of service of the
officers.
So the treasurer, chair, vicechair, sometimes secretary it's
(38:28):
not necessary to have a wholeload of officers particularly,
but the chair in particular.
The chair in particular.
It's a good idea to have arestriction on how often
somebody can become chair.
Quite often it's like a threeyear term, right, and you can
(38:50):
renew it once or and then youcan't stand again for two years
or something.
Marc Smith (38:59):
All right.
Caro Hart (39:07):
What is more usual would be that a three-year term
and then each year a third ofthe trustees stand down and are
renewed for another three years,so that there's this continuity
because a third of the trusteesalways are serving and have
served because it's.
It's a difficult one becauseyou don't want to throw the baby
(39:28):
out with the bath water ifthey've got an experienced,
knowledgeable person serving asa trustee.
You don't want to create anartificial thing where they have
to leave.
Marc Smith (39:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Caro Hart (39:39):
Then again with the best one in the world.
Sometimes views becomeentrenched and sometimes it's
good having new blood, so it'skind of it's what works for you.
But when it comes down to it,it's what your constitution says
.
And if you're moving, as a lotof village halls are now doing,
(40:02):
from the older style of ofgoverning document to the modern
style.
Marc Smith (40:06):
You have the option to decide how long your officers
should serve for so I was goingto ask a question about that,
but that's a podcast in itself.
Moving from one organization.
Yeah, let's leave that, let's,let's leave that for now, yeah
excellent.
I think uh, I think that's allthe questions I have.
I can't think of anything justnow, uh, but I'm sure there's
(40:26):
more podcasts in the in the mix,because there's especially that
one going from one charityorganized type to a different
that if that's what people aredoing now, or that's what whole
committees are doing now, it'sprobably worth doing something
like that.
And that's what people aredoing now, or that's what whole
committees are doing now, it'sprobably worth doing something
like that.
And that's the one where itgoes from.
So you can have a 16-year-old,is that correct?
(40:46):
Yeah, yeah, I think that'sespecially trying to get the
younger community involved inthese things.
I think, if you're allowed todo it, then yes, although I
wasn't responsible at 16, butsome people are.
Caro Hart (41:02):
Can I just do a quick plug for, of course, um, yes,
um, dorset community action, umis an organization that supports
village halls.
I'm the village halls or andcommunity space advisor and one
of the things we've created forum all village halls, not just
the ones in dorset is um someonline resources, which we have
on our academy.
So if you, if you google dorsetcommunity action academy, you
(41:26):
will find loads of resourcesabout being a trustee, about
becoming a cio, and what we'vegot is interviews with people
who've done it and the legallystuff and so on.
So thoroughly recommend havinga little look at that.
Also, I hope, as your villagehalls know about acre and they
(41:46):
may know about the acre hallmark, which is the quality standard.
We've got loads of resourcesfor if you're considering going
for the quality standard online,ready to download.
So thoroughly recommend itexcellent.
Marc Smith (41:59):
Well, I will put links onto the page for this
podcast to everything that youdo, because it's a anything that
can benefit our listeners umthat's brilliant.
It's going to be extremelyuseful uh well yeah, send you
some links.
Yeah, send the links, that'll beperfect.
Yeah, well, thank you very much, Caro, for joining us on the
village podcast.
It's been a real pleasure tospeak with you and I really hope
to speak to you again soonabout all the questions that I
(42:20):
will have when I edit this.
I should have asked this.
I should have asked that.
Well, I think I will.
Caro Hart (42:26):
You'd be most welcome .
Marc Smith (42:27):
Excellent, thank you .
Thank you.
Many thanks to our headlinesponsor and specialist Village
Hall insurance provider, AlliedWestminster, the home of Village
Guard, for making this podcastpossible, and to online booking
system provider, Hall master,who also sponsor our podcast and
can be found at hallmaster.
co.
uk.
You've been listening to theVillage Halls podcast, a unique
(42:50):
listening community forBritain's village community and
church halls and anyoneinterested in the vital
community services they provide.
We'll be back again soon withanother episode.
For more information, pleasevisit thevillagehallspodcastcom,
where you'll also find links toour social media pages.
Thanks again for listening inand until the next time.
(43:11):
Goodbye for now.
Hello, my name is Marc Smith and welcome to the
Village Halls podcast sponsoredby Allied Westminster, the UK's
largest specialist provider ofVillage Hall insurance, and the
home of Village Guard.
So there's a slightly differentformat for this podcast.
I recorded this a few weeks ago, where we were diving into the
(00:21):
world of Village Halls,committees and what it takes to
step into the role of a trustee.
So I approached this topic withvery little prior research and
this is not by accident but bydesign.
I wanted to explore the processas someone who's curious,
asking the questions many mighthave when considering this kind
of responsibility.
So, whether you are alreadypart of a committee or simply
(00:43):
wondering what it takes, join meas we uncover the ins and outs
of becoming a trustee within avillage hall.
So welcome to Season 5, Episode2 of the Village Halls podcast.
Today we have the pleasure ofspeaking with Caro Hart, an
accomplished community trainingconsultant with Dorset Community
Action.
Welcome to the podcast, Caro.
Thank you for having me.
Caro Hart (01:03):
Thank you for having me.
Marc Smith (01:04):
Well, today, as we've discussed, I am going to
wing it because I do a lot ofresearch for my other podcasts,
but for this podcast I thoughtmy ignorance is going to be a
benefit, because this podcast isall about trustees'
responsibilities, so I have noidea where we're going to go for
this.
So hopefully my ignorance isbliss.
So I do have a first question.
(01:26):
I've not got too many questionsgoing to let it take a natural
course, this podcast.
But obviously there's somepeople that can be trustees and
some people that cannot.
So first of all I kind of liketo focus on who cannot be a
trustee um, yeah, that's areally good question.
Caro Hart (01:41):
Um, some people can't be trustees because they've
been convicted of particularcrimes, such as terrorism or
financial fraud or somethinglike that, which is fairly
self-evident.
There's also some restrictionson whether or not you can be a
trustee in the Charities Act.
So most charities you can'thave trustees under 18, but the
(02:05):
new form of charity, theCharitable Incorporated
Organisation, you can havetrustees over 16 years of age.
Marc Smith (02:13):
What would be the difference between those two
types of organisations then, ifone could be 18 and one?
Caro Hart (02:17):
could be 16?
.
We could do a whole podcast onthat alone.
The brief answer is that manyvillage halls have trustees, or
governing documents, as they'realso known, going back to the
1900s, the 1920s, 1950s.
(02:38):
A lot of them were rewritten inthe 1970s and 80s and these
these are trustees.
They may be part of a lease,maybe very ancient.
I've seen them sort of writtenwith curlicues and all sorts
yeah in um in 2011, when thecharities act uh came into force
, there was a modern form ofcharity uh introduced, called
(03:02):
the charitable incorporatedorganization, and you'll
appreciate that a charity, anincorporated charity, um has a
is is a thing on its own.
It's like a business um.
You don't talk about um theboard of marks and spencer.
You talk about marks andspencer because marks and
(03:23):
spencer is a thing over andabove the people who work in it,
and this is what a village hallis, if it's become a registered
charity and the village hallitself can have contracts, can
employ people and so on.
And the big advantage apart fromI I mean some of the provisions
(03:46):
of the older trustees are sortof you've got to have somebody
um on your board from theparochial gardening society,
which, of course, is long gone,so that can be quite confusing
um and it, it um updates all ofthat stuff.
But but mainly, the advantageis that it gives it limits the
(04:10):
liability of trustees.
All right, if it's not anincorporated body, the trustees
are personally liable all rightright that's very interesting
actually yeah, yes, it's a bitlike.
Marc Smith (04:22):
It's like similar, similar to a limited company
that you're not.
Yeah.
Caro Hart (04:27):
It's the same difference between being
self-employed and having alimited company, so that company
is a body corporate.
Marc Smith (04:38):
It's actually quite good that you can be 16, because
there's a lot of people invillages that are young, that
are 16, that are really keen tobe involved nowadays.
So having that reduced is it'sjust a logical next step, isn't
it really to?
Caro Hart (04:50):
to allow people to take care of the community
absolutely, and and a lot ofvillage halls do get into the
mindset, I think, um, becausethey're the people with time,
are the retired people, theolder people?
Um, they tend to be the peoplewho are getting involved.
Although a lot, of, a lot ofpeople in older age are still
(05:12):
working, as I am myself, that'sbeen the traditional and, and
it's not just village halls, umcitizens advice, women's
institutes, they're all um,mostly retired people with
experience, people with greatknowledge and people with that
commitment to the village.
You know, even even if they'reincomers they've only been there
20 years then they have that,that, that passion for the
(05:37):
village.
But that's not to say that theyoung people don't.
People don't um, and quite oftenyou'll find, if you've got a
village hall with um a cricketclub nearby or something, that
they'll work together and theyoung people get involved in
organizing things, becausethat's one of the things about
attracting trustees um, itrarely works to just rock up at
(05:59):
somebody's door and say, look,will you take on the legal
responsibility?
Oh, thank you, slam.
But if you've got somebody, oh,could you come and help
organise the fete, or can youcome and organise the family fun
day and do the stall over thereand they go.
Yeah, yeah, fine, that's just acouple of Saturdays work
(06:21):
Brilliant.
Get to meet some new peopleFantastic.
Saturday's work brilliant.
Um, get to meet some new peoplefantastic, um.
You then say, oh, and can youjust come and put the chairs out
for the film night or help put,um, the the labels on the
jumble sale or something, andsoon that person is volunteering
on a regular basis and then youhave the conversation.
(06:42):
Actually, you've got a lot ofpotential.
You seem really interested.
You're asking good questions.
Would you like to come and findout what's what's involved in
being a trustee?
Marc Smith (06:53):
yeah, I used to do that when I was 18 19 when I
flitted quite a few times inEdinburgh.
I used to invite my mates doyou want to come around for
dinner?
and then it just so happenedthat I had them take stuff to
carry down three flights ofstairs.
That's the hook.
Once you get them in, theycan't leave.
They've got no choice if theywant their dinner.
That's a good way to do becauseI suppose it does show.
(07:14):
If you do that kind ofvolunteering for like one or two
events, it shows it is actuallynot just a boring trusty
responsibility.
It's actually quite interestingto do.
You get to meet people and youget to help your community.
So overall it's actually it's agood way to show them how fun
it can actually be and it's notjust paperwork, yeah, and most,
most village halls trustees.
Caro Hart (07:34):
The trusteeing part of it is the least of it.
It mustn't get lost.
I I always say this to villagehalls it mustn't get lost.
The, the what's calledgovernance, the, the financial
management, doesn't get lost inthe, your enjoyment of all the
family fun days and organizingthe film club and the gardening
(07:55):
club and everything, because, um, it's all got to be um part of
your involvement.
But the trusteeing is somethinga little bit different and a
little bit different of a roleto your day-to-day sort of
(08:15):
volunteering.
And some people have a passionfor it.
They love the organisation andthe policies and the finance and
the accounts and everything.
I mean, yeah, there are madpeople around and some people
just love the community stuffyeah um, and for some it's a
balance off.
Well, I'll do some of that if I,if I'm mainly doing that, yeah,
(08:37):
yeah.
Marc Smith (08:38):
So let's say, obviously I'm over 18 so I can
be a trustee.
So say, I do volunteer at a, ata meeting, to become a trustee.
What, what?
This type of thing I need toknow.
Like you mentioned their legalresponsibilities, so I assume I,
if I become a trustee, I willhave a legal responsibility for
my village hall.
What, what does that all entailthen?
Is that I it sounds quite scary, in all honesty legal
(09:02):
responsibility well, let mestart by unpicking what trustees
actually do.
Caro Hart (09:07):
I've been throwing around terms like governance and
financial and so on.
Basically, your trustees of avillage hall look after the
village hall for both the shortterm and the long term.
Everybody else is kind ofinvolved in oh, let's do a
Christmas thing, let's do anEaster thing, and so on on, but
they're taking the longer view.
(09:27):
They're going.
Actually, in 20 years we've gotto have enough money in the
bank to replace the roof,because it's only on a 50-year
guarantee and it's 30 years old.
And they make decisions aboutthe finances.
You know the higher amounts,enough to cover our expenses for
the year.
(09:48):
Do we have a safeguarding policy?
What about the, the health andsafety regulations?
Are we compliant?
But it's it.
It sounds like quite aresponsible thing.
But the point to emphasise isyou're not doing this on your
own.
You're acting as a committee,as a group of people, and
(10:11):
ideally everybody bringsdifferent skills and knowledge
and experience, maybe livedexperience.
Somebody has lived in thevillage for ages, somebody may
be a retired financeprofessional.
So everybody brings somethingin and a passion for the village
hall and for the community, andso you work together and
support each other to do this,but it's essentially looking
(10:35):
after that organisation, holdingit literally in trust as a
trustee for the future.
As a trustee for the future, um, and it it's really lovely,
because some people serve formany, many years.
Marc Smith (10:50):
Some people only serve for a short time.
Caro Hart (10:51):
Yeah, all of them help that resource.
I mean.
Many village halls these daysare 100, even 150 years old, and
that's a really lovely thing tobe part of um.
And the way they do this is um.
Trustees would need to haveregular meetings.
That might be the beginning orend of a general planning
(11:12):
meeting, or it might be aseparate meeting, um, and they
have to have a record of thosemeetings, either an action point
or more detailed minutes.
They've got to ask forinformation, um so they can make
proper decisions, um.
So that might mean um having aum the accounts, or it might
(11:38):
mean having a report on theplumbing um alterations that are
needed or something.
They need to ask for theinformation that they need to
make that decision.
And so, as a trustee, you haveto read the papers, make sure
you're on top of the details.
Ideally it doesn't alwayshappen, but ideally all of the
(12:02):
trustees will understand thebasics of how to read the
financial information, um, sothey know the position, but
quite often it's the like, thetreasurer, treasurer or chair,
who leads on that and interpretsit for people would that just
be like a balance sheet?
Marc Smith (12:18):
is that the type of thing, like any basic knowledge
or simpler than about balancesheet.
Caro Hart (12:22):
often, um, but particularly when you're
thinking about putting money byfor the longer term, you'd
probably need a written policyaround what's called reserves
and designated funds, so itshows what you're keeping aside
for the future.
And then, if you go for a bitof funding, the funders don't
say look, you've got 10 yearsmoney in the bank.
(12:44):
What are you doing, asking usfor a bit of funding?
the funders don't say, look,you've got 10 years money in the
bank.
What are you doing?
Asking for a thousand poundsBecause you can say, look, we've
got that, we've got thisagainst this, and actually we
need a thousand pounds becausewe want to re-brick the paths or
plant up the sensory garden forthe local blind club or
(13:04):
something like that.
If there's a particular issue,what the trustee board might do
like a rebuilding or aretrofitting insulation or
something they've got a bigproject what the trustee board
might do is get a kind ofworking party together.
(13:28):
So that might be some trustees,but loads of other people can
get involved with expertise,which is another good way of
getting people on the trusteeboard, because you get them
involved in a piece of work andthen they can stay.
But, um, and that may be whereyou bring your expertise you
know if you're a retired um landagent or something you know it
(13:50):
could be that.
that's where your expertiseshines.
To look at the legally bit,what the Charity Commission,
which is the regulatory body ofthe charity sector, says is that
trustees have six main duties.
The first one is ensuring yourcharity is carrying out its
(14:13):
purposes for the public benefit.
And what that means is thatbecause every charity, whether
you're a trust or whether you'rea more modern form of charity,
it will always have social aimsat the top of the document.
We are here for the benefit ofthe village.
Sometimes it's for the reliefof poverty.
(14:35):
There's several different things.
It can be um, and every timethat um, you do something, it's
got to be within that thatobject, those charitable objects
, yeah, and every charity has tobe set up for the public
benefit.
It can't just be a charity thatraises money for the folks at
(15:01):
number six, cherry Tree Lane,which the family and friends of
the founders seem to think weretheir personal savings pot.
It can't work like that.
It's got to work for the publicbenefit.
It's got to work on itspurposes for the public benefit.
(15:28):
And I mentioned this, or Ididn't mention this earlier,
because the second thing is it'sgot to comply with the
governing document.
The second thing is you've gotto comply with the governing
document so that gives thetrustees, the committee, various
powers to do things.
So if you've got money you'resaving up, you may be able to
invest it.
If your governing documentdoesn't say you can invest it,
(15:56):
you can't invest it, and that'sreally important to make sure
that you're following that.
Marc Smith (16:00):
Is that on a per hall basis or is that overall
for all halls?
Caro Hart (16:03):
terms.
But, as I say, because villagehalls have um so many different
types of governing documents,depending on when they were set
up, how they were set up.
Where they were all right, werethey set up by the parochial
council?
Where they?
I've got one that was a grantfrom the local earl of the?
Um of the land and then therewas a public subscription to
(16:28):
build the village hall.
This was in 1922, um, and soyou can imagine that the lease
deed and the and theconstitution is very, very
old-fashioned um and not doesn'tset out the sort of things
you'd expect today, like uminvestments, um what to do if
you're closing down, which isgive the money to another
(16:50):
charity um how you do um.
There's quite a lot in thereabout how you do meetings
nowadays.
There's a thing about you canhave meetings online if it the
snow is is knee deep um, butsome of the older ones you
actually aren't really supposedto be able to have meetings on
zoom um, so it's not a reason um.
(17:14):
I mean, the charity commissionisn't going to bother if um a
village hall um in the depths ofwinter, has a trustee board
meeting by zoom.
The node is going to comebanging on the door, you know,
um, but if you go too far awayfrom from what your actual
(17:35):
governing document says, um,that could present all kinds of
problems, because you're sayingto the village oh, we've set up
a, a, a balloon company, andthey're going, but but we've
been paying our higher fees andeverything on the understanding
you'll do stuff for the village.
Marc Smith (17:52):
Yeah.
Caro Hart (17:53):
Where?
Where's the difference?
So, third thing, pretty obviousact in your charity's best
interests.
And that can be, that can beactually more tricky than it
sounds because, um, sometimesit's not.
It's not easy to know what thebest interests of the village
hall are, the community andopposing views.
(18:14):
So, um, that that can be, umcan take some discussion, some
goodwill to sort out.
So false one is you must manageyour charity's resources
responsibly.
And that's not only aboutmaking good decisions, acting in
your charity's best interest,but it's also about keeping good
(18:35):
records, having goodconversations about how you're
going to spend your money andwhat is needed for the future,
like I said, keeping reservesagainst the roof needing doing
in 20 years.
And similarly, act withreasonable care and skill.
And that's about what I saidearlier about making sure you've
(18:56):
asked the experts.
If you've got a decision tomake, ask the experts, get
somebody down.
There's usually somebody in avillage or a neighboring village
who knows this stuff.
Most people know a retiredbuilder.
So if you, if you, want a firstopinion on, on that naggy bit
in the roof that always letswater in, somebody knows
(19:17):
somebody.
And networking is yourstrongest tool when you're a
trustee, I assure you.
And then, finally, the sixth onethat the Charity Commission
specifies is that your charityis accountable, and that means
having your accounts, yourtrustees and your reports
publicly available.
(19:38):
Doesn't mean having every, everyminute of every meeting or
anything but your annual generalmeeting.
If that's what your governingdocument says you have to do, or
if you don't have to have anannual general meeting, it's
always a good idea to have a onepublic meeting a year to get
people coming in and talking, um, and at that point you might
say we're in reasonable shape,or, um, actually there's a,
(20:01):
there's a challenge coming up,so we're going to raise the
higher prices and be accountableto people.
And it goes back to that what Isaid about being an
organization there for thepublic benefit, not somebody's
personal fiefdom, you know.
So that's, that's what thecheck, the legal bit.
So your legal responsibilitiesare to do your best if you don't
(20:24):
know the answer, talk to somepeople who might do make the
best decisions you cancollectively and to be
transparent and open, becauseyou're a publicly accountable
organization.
So that's that.
Can be a bit scary about how todo that, but you do it together
(20:44):
yeah so I mean, we've talkedabout um asking people whether
they're interested in beingtrustees.
But, um, some people do just popup if they've just moved to the
village or whatever and theysay I'm interested.
So somebody is interested inbeing a trustee.
Um, my, my first um bit ofadvice would be to contact the
(21:10):
organization directly yeah umsomewhere on the on the?
um the website or on thefacebook page.
There there'll be a contact, orjust walk down the road and
knock on the door um and have achat, meet some of the people um
, ideally, you want to betalking to the, the chair of the
(21:31):
trustees, right um, who may ormay not be down in person um.
So have a chat with the chairof trustees, maybe meet some of
the other trustees um.
And if you um are slightly outof area, which isn't so much
with village halls but um,sometimes a, a charity, even
(21:57):
even a community, a communityspace of some description, may
get trustees from out of areaunless it's specifically
restricted in their thing.
Marc Smith (22:06):
So ah, so it'd be restricted, or you can restrict
where people are, like how faraway from the village?
Caro Hart (22:12):
some do.
But then a lot of village hallsthese days where, um, you know,
um, maybe a parish hall closeddown, so it's now covering two
villages or three villages or so, so you may find people from
out of area or it might bepeople who have moved away but
their mum still lives in thevillage, or something like that
(22:35):
who are interested, and theymight find out um on um one of
the online um uh places likereach or do it web.
These are websites where youcan list that you're looking for
trustees ah, I was not awarethat those existed.
Marc Smith (22:52):
I will put a link to those on the website on the
podcast page.
That's very interesting.
Caro Hart (22:57):
Marvelous, marvelous.
Well, they're both marvelous,but do it in particular.
I used to do a course aboutgetting people interested in
volunteering and I used to saythere is a voluntary opportunity
for everybody.
And I used to back that up inreal time by going right what
(23:18):
are you interested in?
And I actually one day found ajob, a volunteer role that was
going into the archives of theImperial War Museum and
inventorying the hundreds ofthousands of uniforms that are
there, and I thought somewherethere is one person for whom
(23:41):
that is the perfect role.
Marc Smith (23:43):
Yeah.
Caro Hart (23:45):
So if you're volunteering, whether you choose
to be a trustee or not, that isthe perfect role, and I would
always say about volunteering,it's so fulfilling.
I've volunteered almost all mylife.
I'm actually a volunteertrustee at the moment for an
organisation.
So what do I do when I finishthe day job?
(24:07):
I go and do more trusteeing umthe other thing is um to um.
Sometimes organizations have umlike open days to try and
attract volunteers.
Village halls might do that.
If, for example, you've um justhad a refurbishment or
(24:28):
something and you're going to doa whole lot more stuff um the
with the new premises, but youneed volunteers, you might have
an open day.
You might have a taster sessionof and you're going to do a
whole lot more stuff with thenew premises, but you need
volunteers.
You might have an open day.
You might have a taster sessionof some of your hirers, things
like that, so you could attendone of those and then talk to
somebody.
And once you've expressedinterest in being a trustee,
(24:49):
ideally what should happen isthat you'll have a slightly more
formal discussion with thechair about what the role is.
Hopefully the chair will saysimilar stuff to what I've just
been saying.
What you should be given orwhat you can download from the
(25:12):
Charity Commission is awonderful little leaflet called
the Essential Trustee centraltrustee and um thoroughly
recommend that if you'reinterested in being um a trustee
, because it just um tells youeverything about it um and then
what you might have unusuallyfor a village hall you might
have an actual interview, aformal interview, all right, um,
hopefully somebody will giveyou a pack of information maybe
(25:34):
the, a copy of the constitution,the last minutes, um, some of
the policies, things like that,annual accounts and they may say
come and sit in on part of themeeting to see how we operate.
That's a good one, particularlyif you're not particularly very
familiar with the process yeahcome and sit in on the meeting,
um go, actually that thosediscussions were really
(25:57):
interesting, that you know I'dbe, I'd be interested in doing
that.
And then, um, at the end of it,um, you have to do a formal
trustees declaration sayingyou're not, that you are over
over 16 or 18 and you haven'tbeen convicted of financial
crime and so on, and you'venever been banned from being a
(26:20):
trustee by the CharityCommission.
And trustees have to do thatevery year, ideally, so that the
organisation can keep on theright side of the law.
Marc Smith (26:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Caro Hart (26:30):
And then finally and some people find this a sticking
point funnily enough, you wouldthen be added, assuming the
Village Hall is an incorporatedcharity, you'd then be added to
the Charity Commission site.
Just your name and the detailsof any other organisations
you're a trustee of would beadded.
(26:52):
You're a trustee of?
Yeah, would be added, and so,um, but on the bright side, the
charity commission would thencontact you and send you
information, and when they umupdate things, they let you know
is that a sticking point?
because people are worried abouthaving their name on the web I
(27:12):
think sometimes I mean theydon't give any name and address,
or yeah just yeah, but it is um.
They do publicly tell peopleyour middle name, which can be
very embarrassing for somepeople.
Marc Smith (27:23):
Oh, really all right .
I'll need to go on the websiteand have a look at these
embarrassing middle names so, um, it's a super thing and
everything.
Caro Hart (27:33):
everything I've said, I suppose, is sort of the top
level stuff.
Quite often village halls are alot more informal, but it is
important to remember that,however informal it is in
practice, you still have thoseformal legal responsibilities.
Yeah, yeah formal legalresponsibilities.
(28:01):
Yeah, yeah, um, I've neverknown um it really to um come
down on people because villagehalls aren't big enough, for I'm
not saying they should doanything they like, but they're
not.
They're not big enough for hugelegal scrutiny, but, um, they
are always under public scrutinyby the rest of the village for
how they're managing.
So it's really useful to makesure they're managing along the
(28:25):
lines of good practice, as I'vesaid about being accountable,
being transparent, but it's afantastic role and people have
such fun with it in villages and, as I say, they make such a
contribution for the longer termfuture of the village.
Marc Smith (28:44):
Now it sounds obviously everyone listening,
and myself included.
It sounds like a lot of work.
So my question is how manytrustees are normally on a board
, because obviously you'll haveto have someone who can do
finance, someone that canbasically take the helm to make
the final decisions.
How many people are on?
Is it a minimum or a maximumamount?
Caro Hart (29:04):
there's usually a minimum of um two right.
Um, some of the older umtrustees have something like 15
or 20 right right because theythey say things, you're going to
have somebody from the WI, fromthe parochial council, from the
gardening club, from theunicorn appreciation society,
(29:25):
and they list all those, most ofwhich are long gone.
So actually you land up with oh, she'll do, she's on the
gardening club, she plays golf,she'll do so.
Ideally, she plays golf, she'lldo so.
It ideally a trustee board formy, for my money, needs to be
(29:46):
between six and seven, becausethat's enough people to have a
range of expertise.
It's, yes, you might have atreasurer, if you're lucky
enough to be able to find atreasurer, you might have a
treasurer staff in the books anda chair.
(30:08):
But the chair and the secretarycan both be revolving roles,
either meeting by meeting oryear by year, so that you know
the responsibility is spread out.
Um, it's like rotary thepresident of a rotary is changed
every year because it's quitean intensive job right you said
(30:28):
about the time commitments forthe actual.
You've got to be really clearabout what is trusteeing and
what is other volunteering yeahif somebody volunteers to open
up every day for whoever'shiring the hall, that's
different from their trusteeresponsibility.
That may take loads of timeyeah, or if somebody's doing the
maintenance or whatever.
As often happens, the trusteesneed to meet, probably uh, once
(30:54):
every three months all right formaybe two to three hours to get
through everything, to agree,to check out that all the
procedures are working, to agreehow the budget is going and to
cover any other jobs getting theaccounts sorted, organising the
(31:16):
AGM, getting more trustees.
Getting the accounts sorted,organising the AGM, getting more
trustees and what they may dois include have a fifth meeting
each year.
That's like an away day, aplanning day, looking for the
longer term future, becausemeetings tend to be just
planning a few months in advance.
Once a year they might want togo, um, have a day or an
(31:40):
afternoon, maybe involve otherpeople, some of the volunteers,
some of the hiring groups, tocome and say, okay, well, for
the next three years, where dowe want to go?
What do we want to do?
Do we want to build a gardenand get money to do a?
Um children's play area?
What do we want to do?
And kind of do that long-termplanning, um.
(32:00):
So I suppose you can do, youcan do trusteeing in about 15
hours a year.
Marc Smith (32:08):
Oh really that's.
Caro Hart (32:10):
That's an incentive right there plus plus a bit of
um, a background, a bit ofhomework yeah, yeah but if you
want to, then get involved insomething, um, like one of those
um task groups I I mentioned,to plan the, the refurbishment,
or or um you might get involvedin, in one of the projects, or
(32:32):
volunteering to run the filmclub or do whatever yeah yeah,
and that that is um, but it'simportant to, particularly when
you're trying to recruit umpeople perhaps who work outside
the village, um, and it's reallyimportant to think about well,
when are they going to beavailable?
(32:53):
yeah so we need to have meetingsin the evenings or weekends, um
, because if you're short oftrustees, this is the sort of
thing you need to think about.
I know one trustee group whowere really pleased that they
got the new vicar on theircommittee.
All right.
And because they wanted to getthat relationship closer with
(33:16):
the church, except that theirmeetings were always on the day
that was the vicar's day off,because vicar's work sunday, it
turns out, and so the vicarcould never come to their
meetings and they were notprepared to move their meeting
because everybody had got othercommitments yeah so they
(33:36):
actually excluded that personwho was perfectly willing to
come and help yeah yeah on that.
So it's that kind of thinkingdon't close, close off.
And if you're trying, if you'vegot a bit of new build on the
end of the village, as so manyvillages do these days and
there's some young familiesthere, there may very well be um
(33:57):
people who would like to getinvolved more closely in the
community.
People's skills that would beuseful to have on the trustee
board.
But having a meeting at halfpast three when they're just
picking up the kids from fromschool, is no use, so you have
to think about, or can we haveit at 11 o'clock in the morning?
blah, blah, blah, um.
(34:19):
And being flexible, being open,helps to get trustees yeah.
Marc Smith (34:25):
So I was going to say, actually what's, what's
your advice?
This is maybe off tangent.
What's the best advice you have, I suppose, for a settling
dispute?
So say that one for the sundayhow do you?
obviously you don't want to fallout with your neighbor or
people on the committee.
On the committee you alwayswant to do it in a nice,
amicable way, but sometimes youget people that don't want to
budge.
So how do you deal with that?
Like it'd be quite handy foryou normal life as well,
(34:47):
actually.
But how do you deal with thatinside the village hall world?
Caro Hart (34:50):
well, the magic answer is actually there, um
most, um, um.
Governing documents have theprovision for voting, so um.
This is why I say have six orseven people, have an uneven
number of people oh yeah, that,yeah, it makes sense um, and if
(35:13):
you've got six or seven people,you have a slightly better
chance of having a range ofviewpoints and ideally you'd
have the meeting.
What you might do is have atrustees meeting on one
particular topic if there was abone of contention, because you
don't want it um, um, hijackinga normal meeting.
(35:35):
So if it turns out there's thisreally contentious issue, you
might have a separate meetingand say we've got two hours and
do the thing I said aboutgetting advice from experts.
Yeah, because people do tend totake positions and stand by
them whether or not we've gotany evidence.
So, actually, do they?
Do they really?
I could be, I could be barkingmad and um.
(36:02):
So what you might do is say,okay, at this meeting we'll have
, um, this local builder comeand do us a presentation about
what is and isn't possible.
Then they go away and we willdebate the issue.
And if you've got a strongchair, what they will do is
something like okay, let'sstructure it like a debate.
Essentially, you can put yourpoint of view.
(36:23):
You put your point of view, youcan refute it, you can refute
the refution, and then we'll allvote yeah um, and if you've
ever done debating at school oranything, that's actually not a
bad way of doing it.
Everybody gets a chance toprepare and to say their point
of view.
The trustees have got anyexpert advice they need or any
(36:44):
reports or something, and theneverybody makes the decision.
But the important thing, andthe bit that so often gets
missed is once the committee hasvoted and made a decision one
way or the other, everybody onthat committee abides by that
decision.
You don't go away and go.
(37:05):
Oh, they're a load of what ashower they are.
they made the wrong decisionBecause you are legally bound by
that decision.
That is the decision of theorganisation.
Marc Smith (37:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's, really interesting,yeah, yeah, because you want.
Once the decision's been made,whether you agree with it or not
, you go with it.
Because it's for this I don'twant to quote from hot fuzz, but
it's for the greater good,isn't it really?
Caro Hart (37:29):
or in the words of the um charity commission, um
act in your charity's bestinterests yes, that's better
from the charity commission, ifI'm honest well, that's very
interesting though yeah so yeah,uh.
Marc Smith (37:47):
So say, if you're a trustee, how?
How is there like a?
You know, obviously the umprime minister and president.
They have a set time.
They can be the president orprime minister.
Is there any set times to be?
If you want to be a trustee for10 years, is there anything
saying you cannot?
Caro Hart (38:03):
um, usually there's no restriction on the length of
time you can be a trustee, right?
Um, it's all?
Um should be covered in yourgoverning document.
But if it's an older one it maynot say yeah, what?
What is usually restricted isthe length of service of the
officers.
So the treasurer, chair, vicechair, sometimes secretary it's
(38:28):
not necessary to have a wholeload of officers particularly,
but the chair in particular.
The chair in particular.
It's a good idea to have arestriction on how often
somebody can become chair.
Quite often it's like a threeyear term, right, and you can
(38:50):
renew it once or and then youcan't stand again for two years
or something.
Marc Smith (38:59):
All right.
Caro Hart (39:07):
What is more usual would be that a three-year term
and then each year a third ofthe trustees stand down and are
renewed for another three years,so that there's this continuity
because a third of the trusteesalways are serving and have
served because it's.
It's a difficult one becauseyou don't want to throw the baby
(39:28):
out with the bath water ifthey've got an experienced,
knowledgeable person serving asa trustee.
You don't want to create anartificial thing where they have
to leave.
Marc Smith (39:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Caro Hart (39:39):
Then again with the best one in the world.
Sometimes views becomeentrenched and sometimes it's
good having new blood, so it'skind of it's what works for you.
But when it comes down to it,it's what your constitution says
.
And if you're moving, as a lotof village halls are now doing,
(40:02):
from the older style of ofgoverning document to the modern
style.
Marc Smith (40:06):
You have the option to decide how long your officers
should serve for so I was goingto ask a question about that,
but that's a podcast in itself.
Moving from one organization.
Yeah, let's leave that, let's,let's leave that for now, yeah
excellent.
I think uh, I think that's allthe questions I have.
I can't think of anything justnow, uh, but I'm sure there's
(40:26):
more podcasts in the in the mix,because there's especially that
one going from one charityorganized type to a different
that if that's what people aredoing now, or that's what whole
committees are doing now, it'sprobably worth doing something
like that.
And that's what people aredoing now, or that's what whole
committees are doing now, it'sprobably worth doing something
like that.
And that's the one where itgoes from.
So you can have a 16-year-old,is that correct?
(40:46):
Yeah, yeah, I think that'sespecially trying to get the
younger community involved inthese things.
I think, if you're allowed todo it, then yes, although I
wasn't responsible at 16, butsome people are.
Caro Hart (41:02):
Can I just do a quick plug for, of course, um, yes,
um, dorset community action, umis an organization that supports
village halls.
I'm the village halls or andcommunity space advisor and one
of the things we've created forum all village halls, not just
the ones in dorset is um someonline resources, which we have
on our academy.
So if you, if you google dorsetcommunity action academy, you
(41:26):
will find loads of resourcesabout being a trustee, about
becoming a cio, and what we'vegot is interviews with people
who've done it and the legallystuff and so on.
So thoroughly recommend havinga little look at that.
Also, I hope, as your villagehalls know about acre and they
(41:46):
may know about the acre hallmark, which is the quality standard.
We've got loads of resourcesfor if you're considering going
for the quality standard online,ready to download.
So thoroughly recommend itexcellent.
Marc Smith (41:59):
Well, I will put links onto the page for this
podcast to everything that youdo, because it's a anything that
can benefit our listeners umthat's brilliant.
It's going to be extremelyuseful uh well yeah, send you
some links.
Yeah, send the links, that'll beperfect.
Yeah, well, thank you very much, Caro, for joining us on the
village podcast.
It's been a real pleasure tospeak with you and I really hope
to speak to you again soonabout all the questions that I
(42:20):
will have when I edit this.
I should have asked this.
I should have asked that.
Well, I think I will.
Caro Hart (42:26):
You'd be most welcome .
Marc Smith (42:27):
Excellent, thank you .
Thank you.
Many thanks to our headlinesponsor and specialist Village
Hall insurance provider, AlliedWestminster, the home of Village
Guard, for making this podcastpossible, and to online booking
system provider, Hall master,who also sponsor our podcast and
can be found at hallmaster.
co.
uk.
You've been listening to theVillage Halls podcast, a unique
(42:50):
listening community forBritain's village community and
church halls and anyoneinterested in the vital
community services they provide.
We'll be back again soon withanother episode.
For more information, pleasevisit thevillagehallspodcastcom,
where you'll also find links toour social media pages.
Thanks again for listening inand until the next time.
(43:11):
Goodbye for now.
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