May 13, 2025 • 37 mins
The hidden dangers lurking in your village hall's water system could be putting your community at risk. Water safety expert Dee Thornton joins us to shed light on Legionnaire's disease - a potentially fatal lung infection caused by bacteria that thrive in stagnant water systems.
Dee expertly breaks down the perfect storm conditions that make village halls particularly vulnerable: infrequent usage leading to water stagnation, aging infrastructure, and the presence of nutrients like rust and limescale that feed bacteria growth. She explains why this matters so critically for community spaces that often serve vulnerable populations, including the elderly and those with respiratory conditions.
What makes this episode essential listening for every trustee is the clear explanation of your legal responsibilities. As Dee reveals, the Health and Safety Executive has recently recruited 250 new inspectors specifically targeting compliance in areas including water safety. She demystifies the process of becoming compliant, walking through practical steps from risk assessments to temperature monitoring and system maintenance, all while emphasizing cost-effective solutions that won't break the bank for charitable organizations.
The conversation covers everything from understanding basic legal requirements to specific maintenance procedures for water tanks, calorifiers, and pipework. You'll learn about the crucial temperature parameters (hot water above 50°C, cold water below 20°C), proper cleaning protocols, and the importance of regular flushing and record-keeping. Dee even offers village halls access to free introductory presentations and affordable training options to help trustees get started on the path to compliance.
Don't miss this vital episode that could literally save lives in your community. Subscribe to The Village Halls Podcast for more essential guidance on managing and maintaining your community space.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marc Smith (00:01):
Hi, I'm Marc Smith and welcome to the Village Halls
podcast sponsored by AlliedWestminster, the UK's largest
specialist provider of VillageHall insurance, and the home of
Village Guard.
Before we begin, a quickreminder that entries are now
open for the Village HallsInspiration Awards 2025,
celebrating the incredible workhappening in village community
(00:24):
and church halls across thecountry.
You can apply between the 1stof May and the 30th of September
, so do consider putting yourhall forward.
In this episode, we aretackling a subject that every
village hall trustee needs to beaware of, even if it's not the
most glamorous.
We're talking aboutLegionnaire's Disease, the risks
it can pose in buildings likeours and what you should be
(00:45):
doing to keep your water systemsafe.
Joining me today is Dee Thornton, an experienced professional in
water safety and Legionellarisk management.
Dee offers services, includingLegionella risk assessments and
training, helping organisationsensure water systems are safe
and compliant.
You can learn more about herwork at deethorntoncouk.
So, whether your haul is usedevery day or once a week, this
(01:07):
is one episode you don't want tomiss.
Welcome to the podcast, Dee.
Dee Thornton (01:11):
Thank you very much indeed.
Marc Smith (01:13):
So, to start with us , we need to learn what
Legionnaires actually is and howdoes it spread?
Dee Thornton (01:18):
Okay, legionella pneumophilia is a bacteria and
it's a bacteria that's actuallyin water.
It is quite.
Legionella pneumophilia isquite a serious lung disorder.
Ok, and you get it in the watersystem of buildings.
(01:42):
It in the water system ofbuildings when Legionella, as
it's a form of pneumonia, okay,you only get it by breathing it
in.
Okay, you can't get it bydrinking it.
Marc Smith (01:58):
That's good to know.
Dee Thornton (01:59):
That's what I thought Now, because our
environment is getting warmerand there's a lot of stagnation
in water systems of emptybuildings, empty rooms, cold
water tanks are not moving.
That is where the concern isNow.
(02:23):
Legionella will grow OK, itused to be every five days, it's
now every three days in verywarm environments but it does
need food.
Foods are stagnation, limescale, algae, warmth,
(02:50):
temperatures between 20 and 45degrees to allow it to multiply,
and that's why it's quiteimportant to make sure your
building is safe to make sureyour building is safe, right,
right.
Marc Smith (03:05):
So I suppose the stagnation part I was reading
about.
I was reading about KennyLegionella's the last week or so
and one of the things that itmentioned online was that there
were old pipework in buildings.
They could sit there.
They're just capped off, notused, and I would imagine that
village halls that the age thatthey are that would be a
(03:27):
particular problem.
It's kind of which is kind ofvillage hall specific that it's
not used all that much as wellthese buildings the thing is, is
that it?
Dee Thornton (03:36):
it depends where you've got old pipe work.
Is that the new, one of thenutrients is also rust, okay,
and so as the Legionella isfeeding off it, it's eating it
and it's multiplying becauseit's got food.
It's a very happy bug, if youcall it like that.
(03:57):
It's not always just in oldpipework.
It can be in a cold water tank,it can be in new pipework.
It can be in a cold water tank,it can be in new pipework, but
there's beams of heat comingthrough the attic or through the
heating system, and so all ofthose gather, but it's the
(04:19):
stillness of the water thatallows it to grow.
Marc Smith (04:26):
All right, so it can feed on rust as well.
Yes, it can.
You're losing battle there,isn't it?
Because if it can feed on thosetypes of things, then you
really are struggling.
So I suppose would you say thatolder buildings are more at
risk than newer buildings, or isit a fear for any building?
Dee Thornton (04:45):
really it's basically any building.
One thing I'm just going tomake really quite clear is what,
boring as it might be, this isa statutory law, okay, and so
anyone who actually owns abuilding where the public are
going in, you have to comply tothe health and safety executive
(05:09):
and the laws around that, and itis statutory, as I just said,
and so you have to make surethat you're assessing the risk
of that building as public arecoming into it, because you are
liable to make sure that wateris of a good standard, that the
(05:30):
person who's turning on the tap,okay, in the wash hand basin or
in the kitchen that's beingused, is going to be safe.
Marc Smith (05:38):
Yeah, so, that being said, the trustees in the hall
are legally responsible for Isuppose we'll move on to testing
.
So how?
What would the trustee need todo to either to test or to make
sure that the risk is at aminimum that is easy reading,
(06:03):
not 65 or 650 pages of you knowGod, I've got to learn.
Dee Thornton (06:08):
All of this is a document that's called and you
can download it for free fromthe HSC.
It's called the Duty HolderLegionella Control Duty Holder,
and on that document it says onpage two, halfway down, exactly
(06:29):
what they have to do, ok, andalso their legal
responsibilities.
And so instead of having todownload every single page on
the HSE website, it's just fivepages and page two is
significant to what you have todo in that building and those
(06:52):
things are okay.
You must make sure that someform of assessment has been,
risk assessment has beencompleted, um, to make sure that
the quality of the water on theflow of the water system is of
a standard OK.
(07:15):
You have to make sure thetemperatures are controlled.
You must be aware and I knowthis comes on later, but I'll
mention it now anyway thatsomebody knows what they're
(07:37):
talking about within the halland that comes through some form
of training.
Now, somebody was asking me theother day.
They said but Dee, I've justlooked through the whole of the
HSC pages and I'm sure he hadNot the five pages, that 650.
And he said I can't see exactlywhere the legality is.
I have to read everything.
Okay, and become fullyqualified.
You don't, but you must beaware of how to deal with the
(08:01):
compliance.
Marc Smith (08:04):
Right, right, so you have to get it.
Someone, I suppose, needs tovolunteer for this as a trustee
to be able to do this and tounderstand the requirements
really.
Dee Thornton (08:16):
You have to understand the requirements of
the HSC and what you have to doto get around it, and I've got
to be honest with you, it is notdifficult, it is not hard.
I do training courses, otherpeople do.
It's making sure it's verysimple to understand so that
you're not having to have hugecosts going out your door.
(08:41):
Okay, compliant, but you mustunderstand what the process of
the compliance is and what youhave to do.
So it includes risk assessment,it includes maintaining your
weight water system, and thatincludes cold water tanks,
calorifiers, spray taps um, ifyou've got a shower, which is
(09:04):
unlikely, but it might be in acommunity center, um, it must.
You must comply to thetemperatures, as I've said, make
sure your system is clean ofthose nutrients that I mentioned
earlier, and also to be able todo ongoing maintenance and
(09:24):
monitoring on a weekly, amonthly, a quarterly or annually
, depending on what you've gotin your village hall.
Marc Smith (09:37):
All right, see, you mentioned temperature there.
This is something I waswatching on YouTube.
So you get your hot water, youput your little probe in the hot
water, you let it get to 50degrees.
Yeah, if it's not 50 degrees,you turn the temperature up.
Nice and simple.
In my head, anyway, the coldwater in my head.
If it's over 20 degrees, sayit's a really warm day, and it's
(09:59):
over 20 degrees, how do you getthat water colder?
Or do degrees?
How do you get that watercolder?
Or do you just let it run toget the bacteria out of the of
the supply?
What's?
Is it a secret to doing that?
Because it didn't.
I couldn't figure out in myhead how that was to work.
Dee Thornton (10:13):
all right, the law stands that a water company
that's, the provider of thewater must deliver the water to
the meter at less than 20degrees.
Ah right, number one, okay.
So, whatever happens, thattemperature has got to be less
(10:34):
than 20 to comply withLegionella.
Okay.
Marc Smith (10:38):
Right.
Dee Thornton (10:39):
And it also controls the bugs for them in
the mains water system.
So your temperature then comesin.
Okay, to the first point ofcall.
If you haven't got a cold watertank and the cold water tank
might be providing the water forthe wash hand basins, yep, okay
, most probably a highprobability your kitchen tap
(11:05):
will come direct from that mains.
Yeah, so that temperature probeshould come at less than 20
degrees.
Yeah, all right, because theprovider's brought it into that
tap.
If it's higher, then whatyou're doing is you're flushing
it down, you're pushing so likea stream, okay, or something to
(11:31):
move the water aggressively.
You actually provide, you turnon the tap and you make sure
that the temperature's goingdown.
So it's going down.
So it might be 23 or 24 on ahot day.
Yeah, okay, and sometimes awater provider cannot get the
temperature at less than 22, 23degrees.
(11:53):
Okay, because it's so boilinghot that it's actually the
ground is actually warming it up.
Marc Smith (12:00):
Yeah.
Dee Thornton (12:00):
All right, but the more you flush it, the more
you'll be able to bring thatdown up.
Yeah, all right, but the moreyou flush it, the more you'll be
able to bring that down, andthat's also the point of
monitoring with the log booksfrom the hsc.
Okay, they're complicated logbooks, but you know that I try
to make them a simple form, um,and so what you do is you log it
(12:23):
and if it's 23, you've doneyour job because you've actually
done what was asked for you forthe compliance.
Yeah yeah, and so what you'relooking to do is to protect
yourself, right Hence why thetemperature?
Marc Smith (12:39):
Yeah, you mentioned the logbook.
There Is that part of the legalrequirement as well to just to
log every whoever does thechecks and when they've done
this yeah, that's that.
Dee Thornton (12:49):
It's called a logbook.
It's a sheet of paper, okay,and it's got temperatures and
you take them from the kitchentap, you might take them from
the wash hand basin, you mighttake them from the sentinel end
and so, depending on what yourbuilding looks like is where
you're taking the monitoring ofthe temperatures.
Marc Smith (13:08):
Right, right, and this person can have.
Obviously, you do trainingyourself to make things simpler,
but the person doesn't need tohave any official accreditation
to do this.
It's just a basic training withthe document.
Dee Thornton (13:23):
One of your questions you've asked me is you
know about risk assessments?
How do you start?
And actually I had somebody ona training course yesterday
saying, dee, could I do a riskassessment?
And they are available from theHSE website.
But the reality is, is that toget somebody to do a risk
(13:45):
assessment and they're not um,it depends on the complexity of
the building.
If you've got calorifiers,which are hot water tanks, if
you've got cold water tanks thatare providing the water to the
wash hand basins, you've gotkitchenette or a kitchen, you've
got three or four toilets, Iwould say get somebody in, okay,
(14:08):
a professional um, and makesure the risk assessment is is
readable, but thereafter you canthen decide right, okay, this
is what I've got, this is mybasic, basic, and off I go with
my maintenance and my monitoring, okay, my cleaning.
(14:32):
So if you get the basics donefirst, through training and also
risk assessment, it can helpexcellent that's good then.
Marc Smith (14:42):
Now I'm going to move on to smart monitoring.
That's one of my my passions isthis, this smart stuff,
everything, uh, although allwe're on a, a podcast just now,
but we have the video on I'm notsure if you've noticed the
light going off and on becauseI'm standing still.
It's because everything's smartand I I really do think it's a
benefit.
But I know you can get smartsystems for water heaters, so,
(15:10):
rather than you know you don'thave to run the tap just to get
that temperature, you canmonitor it from an app.
Are those still?
Are those legal in the world ofmonitoring for Legionella, or
is that something that's justlike a?
I don't think it's a quirk, butit could be seen as that.
Dee Thornton (15:30):
All right, two things here I'll say right at
the beginning let's get thebasics done first.
Okay, and the basics are theamount of village halls that
don't have compliance.
Marc Smith (15:43):
Okay, number one Okay number one.
Dee Thornton (15:45):
Okay, and I know there's quite a few.
All right, so we haven't gotthe basics, which are the risk
assessments.
We haven't got the cleaning ofthe calorifier done on an annual
basis.
We haven't got the cold watertank.
So, once you've got the basicsdone, water tank.
(16:08):
So once you've got the basicsdone, it's, it's it's.
Even though you naturally havean ambition towards smart
metering, okay, the reality is,is it's the cost to it and how
smart metering works in watermonitoring is that sensors are
put on the pipework to be ableto take the temperatures, that
then the data goes back to oneremote system yeah, all right,
(16:32):
and then it's managed and toldthrough and the data is then
reported through.
Okay, your temperatures are notwithin the legal requirements.
Okay, if a building is not used, but there are.
If people can get volunteers,okay, this is not a big job.
Okay, if somebody's local tothe building and they can call,
(16:55):
they can go into that buildingonce a month, but they still.
Marc Smith (16:58):
If it's the building's not used at all, it
would need weekly flushinganyway it's flushing, just
literally open up the tap,leaving it for a few minutes,
and turn off.
Dee Thornton (17:08):
That's all it is right, right yeah, and you have
to record it, you know.
So you know you can't just um,you know, say I've done the
flashing, and then you areaudited every other year after
you've done your risk assessmentand somebody says well, where's
the paperwork?
To say you did do the flushing.
Marc Smith (17:26):
Right right.
Dee Thornton (17:28):
Okay, because I can't see it.
Yeah, yeah, and so that's thedifficulty.
And if that person, somebody'sgoing in to do the flushing,
then why can't they be trainedto do the monitoring?
Yeah, I do appreciate whatyou're saying about smart
metering and I think there is aplace for it, especially when
(17:49):
you've got very large buildings.
But in this instance we'retalking about village halls and
community halls that may not beused.
That you know.
That might not need that formof technology, but it is
available.
Marc Smith (18:06):
Yeah, it was actually a campsite that I saw
on originally, who were heatingthe water tanks for Legionnaires
.
And that's what put it in myhead, that's what put it in my
head, but they were being usedevery day and he couldn't get
them to work and that's why Iwas in there helping him.
But you were saying there thata lot of village halls are not
actually compliant.
So what's the main bits thatare missing then when you go
(18:29):
into village hall?
Is it just the paperwork thatthey've not really done, or is
there anything from the riskassessment?
Dee Thornton (18:34):
you know, the thing is is I had a village hall
the other day that actually, inthis particular village hall,
was actually owned by the parishcouncil, right, and it was the
cost of getting themselves tothe standard of compliance.
They had four calorifiers.
(18:54):
Calorifier is a big waterheater Right, all right, never
been cleaned, full of nutrients,going through to spray taps,
going through to showers.
Yeah, the temperatures weren'tat the right level and the cost
just to get those calorifiers tothat standard was going to be
(19:20):
quite enormous.
So let's just put our head downand not think about it.
Marc Smith (19:24):
Right, right Right.
Dee Thornton (19:26):
There are ways around it, Okay, and it's
whether you know you can get ridof some of the bit large hot
water temperature andcalorifiers and then put in
small point of use if theshowers aren't linked to it.
Yeah, and most hotels won't haveit.
Okay, if you've got a coldwater tank that is um providing
(19:52):
water not just to the toiletsbut also to the wash hand basins
, that wash hat, that cold watertank has to be cleaned because
it's in the eaves and it's notgot insulation.
It might not follow waterregulations because it's been
over up there till a year, sincea year dot, and then the water
(20:17):
stagnation and the algae and thedead pigeons and everything
else sits into the cold watertank that's never been cleaned,
yeah, and the heat goes up.
That's going out to a spray tap.
It might also go down to adisabled toilet.
Then there are solutions aroundit.
Do we need the cold water tank?
(20:38):
Do we want to keep it?
Can we cut it off?
Can we put it on mains?
Yeah, what are our solutions?
Now, some of this won't be putonto a risk assessment.
I put it on mine, okay, becauseI give alternative suggestions
for so that people can think ofthe cost effectiveness of it.
But the reality is is that ifyou haven't got that in place
(21:02):
for a start, then we haven't gota starting ground.
We, we can't.
We can't move forward becauseyou have to have the risk
assessment and you have to treatit as a living document that
gets worked all the time allright.
Marc Smith (21:17):
Right, when you say clean the the water tank, do you
mean drain it and then like,basically scrub any lime scales
off the side of the the tankitself?
Or is it a chemical you put in?
Or do you just leave the wateropen for an hour?
What's?
Dee Thornton (21:31):
right the way the system works.
Is that, firstly, okay in acold water tank?
Um, some of them are very, very, very old and actually some of
them are still cast iron rightokay, okay, I'm seeing it.
And also rust cast iron yeah,nutrients here we go.
All right, then we, if it's aplastic one, has it got a lid on
(21:53):
it?
Has it got a vent on it?
Is it compliant to waterregulations?
Okay, then you open the lid andyou've got, um, you've got a
feast, yeah, okay.
Basically, you've got limescaleeverywhere, if you are in a
high limescale area, and it justneeds cleaning.
(22:15):
So what you do in a situationlike that?
You basically un-lid it, all,right, you put the disinfection,
you clean it out, right, okay,you put the disinfection in.
You take all of the sedimentfrom the bottom.
Okay, that again, don't forgetthat.
(22:37):
Cold water tanks draw down, okay, from the bottom.
The top stays very still, okay,and when the top stays very
still, it has everything on it.
Ok, it has birds, it hasspiders, it has lime, it has a
film, it has algae and all ofthose around the edges.
(22:59):
Now, as it's drawn from thebottom, ok, it goes down to.
It goes down to all the pipework.
You put the disinfection in.
Okay, you being a watertreatment company, because
you're going to need acertificate afterwards.
Yeah, it's all in the downservices, all in the pipe work.
(23:23):
You take it all through toevery single outlet.
You turn off all the taps andyou leave it for two hours.
All right, right, all right,because it's eating all of the
rubbish in all the pipe work,right, all right.
You then turn them all on, youdrain it down, you refill it
(23:48):
with water, okay, and then whathappens is you have it with
water, okay.
And then what happens is thatyou have little matchsticks Okay
, and each little matchstick,okay, if this is done properly,
okay, has got a little felt in,and then the water treatment
company goes along and justtouches all of the taps to make
(24:11):
sure all the disinfection iscleaned through the whole system
.
All right, right, yeah.
And then what you will get is acertificate to say I have been
disinfected, and that's how acold water tank gets cleaned.
Marc Smith (24:29):
All right, I might start bringing bottled water to
when I'm out and about.
It sounds horrible, doesn't itreally?
Dee Thornton (24:34):
Oh, no, no.
Marc Smith (24:36):
It's good that you have that, though you can.
If you've got an old system, itcan be saved.
You don't have to rip it outand put a new system in.
You can.
Dee Thornton (24:44):
No, you don't If it can be adapted, then so be it
.
If it can't, and or it's goingto be costly, then you don't do
it.
I'll give you another example.
I know we're talking aboutlegionella, but you know people
say right, I'm using my villagehall for nurseries, okay, you're
doing the squash for kids, okay.
(25:06):
And it says drinking water OK,drink here, it's all right.
And I went oh, really.
Have you tested it?
And that's called a totalviable count, tvc.
No, we haven't.
Now it's not a legalrequirement.
But I tell you what I wouldprefer to know once a year that
the water that's been deliveredto my tap is good.
(25:28):
Now it's not nothing to do withLegionella, but it's to do with
drinking water, and if you'vegot a little kid coming up and
she's drinking the water, youdon't want to have any bugs in
that water.
Marc Smith (25:41):
No, exactly, yeah, and once a year.
Dee Thornton (25:42):
it's not going to cause that much financial harm
to a village hall to have itdone, and then you can put your
sticker up there yeah, yeah.
Marc Smith (25:53):
Should a should a hall have put on display that
the the the water system hasbeen checked, is that is it.
Should it be no?
Dee Thornton (26:02):
you don't need to do it, you're just expected to
do it because, you see, thething is, the hsc have now just
recruited 250 inspectors tocheck for the five elements of
need which are asbestos, fire,electricity water I don't know
what the fourth or fifth one is.
(26:23):
So if they will come in andthey can do spot checks, have
you done this.
Have you done that?
Can do spot checks.
Have you done this?
Have you done that?
Okay.
And then they go work and theycome back in again and say, um,
yeah, okay, we've done it or wehaven't done it.
And if they haven't, youhaven't done it, then you've got
a certain amount of weeks toget it done by.
But they will come back andmake sure that you have, and
(26:46):
they'll just look at thepaperwork.
Marc Smith (26:47):
So that's why it's very important to keep that
paperwork.
Well, the first, the first wayis to also keep it.
Dee Thornton (26:52):
And there's also the knowledge.
So well, how did you do therisk assessment or not?
How did you?
But did you get the tankcleaned?
Okay, can I have thecertificate for that?
Where's your risk assessment?
Did you have samples?
Now, legionella samples?
I don't know if I'm right orwrong.
(27:13):
The majority of village hallswould not have showers.
Marc Smith (27:18):
Yeah.
Dee Thornton (27:19):
Okay, and showers is the highest level of spray
you can get for airborne youwith me for airborne and so when
I talked right at the beginning, you breathe it in, so you get.
(27:40):
If you get lime scale aroundthe head of a shower, then that
will be a nutrient and it's notjust what's on the outside of
the shower head, it's what's onthe inside and that's the
problem.
okay, so I'm deviating slightlybut, if a village hall or a
community center have a shower,those have got to be cleaned
(28:02):
quarterly and recorded all rightright and this is all part of
the training yeah, do you seewhat I mean?
So have you got that bit?
Have you got that bit?
And people go, oh my god,there's a lot to take in, but
there's not if you do it in theright order.
Really.
Marc Smith (28:17):
Yeah, you literally need a list, don't you really
just to tick off that you'vedone these things?
And I know what you're tickingoff.
Now here's a tangent for you.
Sometimes, when you go into abuilding, you'll see an area
it'll say not drinking water.
Is that because they've notbothered to?
They go okay, we can't do thetesting.
Well, let's say not drinking.
Why is that then?
What was?
Because some are drinking water, and then you'll see some taps
(28:41):
are just it says not fordrinking.
Dee Thornton (28:42):
Is that because it might not have been tested.
They might have had problemswith coliforms.
There might have been e coliwithin the area.
Very unlikely if it's E coli inthe building, but it's just for
washing hands.
But they have said, right, well, it's not drinking water
(29:03):
standard.
There's not many people thattalk about TVCs or drinking
water that are out there, really, I mean.
But for me personally I wouldprefer to know what I'm drinking
is okay, really.
You know, I think we're verygood in this country.
(29:24):
I think, where we do have theproblems with sewage and E coli,
the only reason that you'regoing to be worried in a
building is if you've got oldpipework coming into the
building on the mains and itcould crack and it's sitting
(29:45):
near the sewage pipework.
Who says it won't distort andcrack?
And then you've got a problem,do you see?
Marc Smith (29:53):
do you see?
Dee Thornton (29:54):
what I mean.
So so those so, but I don'tunderstand where they say not
drinking.
They might have had a case of aproblem with um with their
water at some point.
Marc Smith (30:05):
Yeah, that had caused them a tummy bug all
right, I'll definitely not beusing that for anything then.
Dee Thornton (30:11):
But that's not to do with Legionella, that's to do
with drinking water.
Marc Smith (30:17):
Right, that's good.
Thank you very much for yourtime here.
So I think it'd be good to talka little bit about yourself,
like, what is it that you do?
You've spent a lot of time onthis podcast, so what can you do
for village halls around thecountry?
If they were to contact you,what?
What could you do for them,especially if they're brand, if
(30:37):
they've just heard this podcast,like, oh, we've got to do this,
what?
What do you offer?
Well, I suppose anyone, butspecifically village halls okay.
Dee Thornton (30:47):
What I've recently been doing, Marc, is that I've
put a taster presentationtogether, okay, which is a
maximum of an hour and it's free.
And it's free to village hallsso that they can understand the
legalities, what Legionella is,and also what they have to do to
(31:12):
become compliant.
That's the first thing thatI've done, yeah, as well as that
, I have taken the opportunityand it's not financially of
interest to me to put a packagetogether to say, oh, my goodness
, we need to do this, but how dowe do it and how do we get
(31:35):
ourselves going?
Yeah, and there are a lot ofwater treatment companies out
there.
Some of them are good, okay,and some of them are not so good
, okay, so good, okay, wherethey may make the risk
(31:59):
assessment less user-friendly,and that's really difficult,
because you think you've donethe risk assessment and then you
can't read it because they'vemade it so complex that you go
back to them again say, right,well, can you, can you take over
the outsourcing of the whole ofthis?
And and I don't want that forvillage halls so, as well as
doing this taster from thetaster, then people go back to
their committee or whatever thegroup's called within the
(32:23):
village halls or the trusteesand they say, look, we have to
become compliant, I think weshould go on to a training
course.
So I then run a two-hourtraining course.
So I do a two-hour trainingcourse.
This is what everything thatyou need to know okay?
And then from there I get phonecalls or I get emails to say,
(32:48):
look, I need this to be done.
I've got a company that wouldtravel nationwide, okay, and do
the very basic that needs to bedone, and then for the village
hall to take over all of therest, right.
So the foundations are done.
Okay, get it sorted, let us nowtake ownership.
Marc Smith (33:12):
So you haven't got huge costs yeah, well, what I'll
do is, if it's okay withyourself, is I'll put a link on
the podcast page as well.
Yeah, your website where peoplecan sign up to that was your um
.
What's your training?
Was it like via?
Could you do it via Zoom or anonline portal?
Dee Thornton (33:28):
Zoom, teams, okay, whatsapp, okay, you name it.
Okay, mainly Zoom and Teams.
I do need a minimum of aboutfive, five, ten minimum, five,
maximum 15 village halls.
(33:51):
I'm doing a special price, okay, if we're going to talk about
money at £25 per village hall,but I need to make sure that
I've got enough on it to be ableto accumulate, and that's for a
two-hour course and you getdownloaded all the paperwork as
well, so that you've got alittle bit of clarity.
(34:11):
It's a good start and thenwonderful yeah and also I've got
the package price for the riskassessment and if you've got a
calorifier or if you've got atank, and that's the package
price as well, throughout thecounty so that people aren't
having to pay enormous a companyto do enormous travel expenses
(34:32):
or anything like that becauseall of these things accumulate
for a charity oh yeah, we weretalking that before about about
how halls struggle with funding.
Marc Smith (34:42):
So, yeah, having having that is uh is ideal, and
I need to say as well, this hasbeen recorded in 2025, so in
case someone listens to it, nextyear your price goes up.
This was a 2025, just in caseyou never know.
Well, thank you very much, uh,for your time, dean.
Uh, I'm not sure if you've gotany other thoughts, but I think
I've rattled off all thequestions I have in my mind
(35:03):
about it.
I mean, it's a.
It's a.
I didn't think it was this.
Well, I knew about it.
I didn't know about it, but Ididn't know it was, how serious
it was and how often you had todo things.
But I take for granted, byliving in a house, you'll have
the tap on every day anyway, youknow, and just the most basics.
But the village hall, like ourone, I suppose it could be a
week before someone's in, so Inever really thought about it.
Dee Thornton (35:27):
I will say this if don't mind me.
Marc is that it's thevulnerability of the type of
people using a village hall yeahand if you've got elderly
people, okay, who may have umbreathing difficulties, immune
systems, those are thevulnerable because it's a lung
(35:47):
disorder, yeah, and so, um, youknow, people have elderly, have
COPD and all of those make thatvulnerability really um more
poignant, really, and um, it's,it's really up to the um
trustees of the village halls tomake sure that they protect
(36:09):
those people.
That's what I think isimportant.
Marc Smith (36:13):
A hundred percent?
Yeah, definitely.
Well, thank you very much foryour time, dee.
Thank you very much indeed.
Thank you, no worries.
Many thanks to our headlinesponsor and specialist village
hall insurance provider, AlliedWestminster, the home of Village
Guard, for making this podcastpossible, and to online booking
system provider, Hallmaster, whoalso sponsor our podcast and
(36:34):
can be found at hallmaster.
co.
uk.
You've been listening to theVillage Halls podcast, a unique
listening community forBritain's village community and
church halls and anyoneinterested in the vital services
they provide.
Don't forget entries for theVillage Halls Inspiration Awards
2025 are open now until the30th of September, so visit our
(36:56):
website to find out more and getinvolved.
We will be back again soon withanother episode.
For more information, visitthevillagehallspodcast.
com, where you'll also findlinks to our social media pages.
Thanks again for listening inand until next time.
Goodbye for now.
Hi, I'm Marc Smith and welcome to the Village Halls
podcast sponsored by AlliedWestminster, the UK's largest
specialist provider of VillageHall insurance, and the home of
Village Guard.
Before we begin, a quickreminder that entries are now
open for the Village HallsInspiration Awards 2025,
celebrating the incredible workhappening in village community
(00:24):
and church halls across thecountry.
You can apply between the 1stof May and the 30th of September
, so do consider putting yourhall forward.
In this episode, we aretackling a subject that every
village hall trustee needs to beaware of, even if it's not the
most glamorous.
We're talking aboutLegionnaire's Disease, the risks
it can pose in buildings likeours and what you should be
(00:45):
doing to keep your water systemsafe.
Joining me today is Dee Thornton, an experienced professional in
water safety and Legionellarisk management.
Dee offers services, includingLegionella risk assessments and
training, helping organisationsensure water systems are safe
and compliant.
You can learn more about herwork at deethorntoncouk.
So, whether your haul is usedevery day or once a week, this
(01:07):
is one episode you don't want tomiss.
Welcome to the podcast, Dee.
Dee Thornton (01:11):
Thank you very much indeed.
Marc Smith (01:13):
So, to start with us , we need to learn what
Legionnaires actually is and howdoes it spread?
Dee Thornton (01:18):
Okay, legionella pneumophilia is a bacteria and
it's a bacteria that's actuallyin water.
It is quite.
Legionella pneumophilia isquite a serious lung disorder.
Ok, and you get it in the watersystem of buildings.
(01:42):
It in the water system ofbuildings when Legionella, as
it's a form of pneumonia, okay,you only get it by breathing it
in.
Okay, you can't get it bydrinking it.
Marc Smith (01:58):
That's good to know.
Dee Thornton (01:59):
That's what I thought Now, because our
environment is getting warmerand there's a lot of stagnation
in water systems of emptybuildings, empty rooms, cold
water tanks are not moving.
That is where the concern isNow.
(02:23):
Legionella will grow OK, itused to be every five days, it's
now every three days in verywarm environments but it does
need food.
Foods are stagnation, limescale, algae, warmth,
(02:50):
temperatures between 20 and 45degrees to allow it to multiply,
and that's why it's quiteimportant to make sure your
building is safe to make sureyour building is safe, right,
right.
Marc Smith (03:05):
So I suppose the stagnation part I was reading
about.
I was reading about KennyLegionella's the last week or so
and one of the things that itmentioned online was that there
were old pipework in buildings.
They could sit there.
They're just capped off, notused, and I would imagine that
village halls that the age thatthey are that would be a
(03:27):
particular problem.
It's kind of which is kind ofvillage hall specific that it's
not used all that much as wellthese buildings the thing is, is
that it?
Dee Thornton (03:36):
it depends where you've got old pipe work.
Is that the new, one of thenutrients is also rust, okay,
and so as the Legionella isfeeding off it, it's eating it
and it's multiplying becauseit's got food.
It's a very happy bug, if youcall it like that.
(03:57):
It's not always just in oldpipework.
It can be in a cold water tank,it can be in new pipework.
It can be in a cold water tank,it can be in new pipework, but
there's beams of heat comingthrough the attic or through the
heating system, and so all ofthose gather, but it's the
(04:19):
stillness of the water thatallows it to grow.
Marc Smith (04:26):
All right, so it can feed on rust as well.
Yes, it can.
You're losing battle there,isn't it?
Because if it can feed on thosetypes of things, then you
really are struggling.
So I suppose would you say thatolder buildings are more at
risk than newer buildings, or isit a fear for any building?
Dee Thornton (04:45):
really it's basically any building.
One thing I'm just going tomake really quite clear is what,
boring as it might be, this isa statutory law, okay, and so
anyone who actually owns abuilding where the public are
going in, you have to comply tothe health and safety executive
(05:09):
and the laws around that, and itis statutory, as I just said,
and so you have to make surethat you're assessing the risk
of that building as public arecoming into it, because you are
liable to make sure that wateris of a good standard, that the
(05:30):
person who's turning on the tap,okay, in the wash hand basin or
in the kitchen that's beingused, is going to be safe.
Marc Smith (05:38):
Yeah, so, that being said, the trustees in the hall
are legally responsible for Isuppose we'll move on to testing
.
So how?
What would the trustee need todo to either to test or to make
sure that the risk is at aminimum that is easy reading,
(06:03):
not 65 or 650 pages of you knowGod, I've got to learn.
Dee Thornton (06:08):
All of this is a document that's called and you
can download it for free fromthe HSC.
It's called the Duty HolderLegionella Control Duty Holder,
and on that document it says onpage two, halfway down, exactly
(06:29):
what they have to do, ok, andalso their legal
responsibilities.
And so instead of having todownload every single page on
the HSE website, it's just fivepages and page two is
significant to what you have todo in that building and those
(06:52):
things are okay.
You must make sure that someform of assessment has been,
risk assessment has beencompleted, um, to make sure that
the quality of the water on theflow of the water system is of
a standard OK.
(07:15):
You have to make sure thetemperatures are controlled.
You must be aware and I knowthis comes on later, but I'll
mention it now anyway thatsomebody knows what they're
(07:37):
talking about within the halland that comes through some form
of training.
Now, somebody was asking me theother day.
They said but Dee, I've justlooked through the whole of the
HSC pages and I'm sure he hadNot the five pages, that 650.
And he said I can't see exactlywhere the legality is.
I have to read everything.
Okay, and become fullyqualified.
You don't, but you must beaware of how to deal with the
(08:01):
compliance.
Marc Smith (08:04):
Right, right, so you have to get it.
Someone, I suppose, needs tovolunteer for this as a trustee
to be able to do this and tounderstand the requirements
really.
Dee Thornton (08:16):
You have to understand the requirements of
the HSC and what you have to doto get around it, and I've got
to be honest with you, it is notdifficult, it is not hard.
I do training courses, otherpeople do.
It's making sure it's verysimple to understand so that
you're not having to have hugecosts going out your door.
(08:41):
Okay, compliant, but you mustunderstand what the process of
the compliance is and what youhave to do.
So it includes risk assessment,it includes maintaining your
weight water system, and thatincludes cold water tanks,
calorifiers, spray taps um, ifyou've got a shower, which is
(09:04):
unlikely, but it might be in acommunity center, um, it must.
You must comply to thetemperatures, as I've said, make
sure your system is clean ofthose nutrients that I mentioned
earlier, and also to be able todo ongoing maintenance and
(09:24):
monitoring on a weekly, amonthly, a quarterly or annually
, depending on what you've gotin your village hall.
Marc Smith (09:37):
All right, see, you mentioned temperature there.
This is something I waswatching on YouTube.
So you get your hot water, youput your little probe in the hot
water, you let it get to 50degrees.
Yeah, if it's not 50 degrees,you turn the temperature up.
Nice and simple.
In my head, anyway, the coldwater in my head.
If it's over 20 degrees, sayit's a really warm day, and it's
(09:59):
over 20 degrees, how do you getthat water colder?
Or do degrees?
How do you get that watercolder?
Or do you just let it run toget the bacteria out of the of
the supply?
What's?
Is it a secret to doing that?
Because it didn't.
I couldn't figure out in myhead how that was to work.
Dee Thornton (10:13):
all right, the law stands that a water company
that's, the provider of thewater must deliver the water to
the meter at less than 20degrees.
Ah right, number one, okay.
So, whatever happens, thattemperature has got to be less
(10:34):
than 20 to comply withLegionella.
Okay.
Marc Smith (10:38):
Right.
Dee Thornton (10:39):
And it also controls the bugs for them in
the mains water system.
So your temperature then comesin.
Okay, to the first point ofcall.
If you haven't got a cold watertank and the cold water tank
might be providing the water forthe wash hand basins, yep, okay
, most probably a highprobability your kitchen tap
(11:05):
will come direct from that mains.
Yeah, so that temperature probeshould come at less than 20
degrees.
Yeah, all right, because theprovider's brought it into that
tap.
If it's higher, then whatyou're doing is you're flushing
it down, you're pushing so likea stream, okay, or something to
(11:31):
move the water aggressively.
You actually provide, you turnon the tap and you make sure
that the temperature's goingdown.
So it's going down.
So it might be 23 or 24 on ahot day.
Yeah, okay, and sometimes awater provider cannot get the
temperature at less than 22, 23degrees.
(11:53):
Okay, because it's so boilinghot that it's actually the
ground is actually warming it up.
Marc Smith (12:00):
Yeah.
Dee Thornton (12:00):
All right, but the more you flush it, the more
you'll be able to bring thatdown up.
Yeah, all right, but the moreyou flush it, the more you'll be
able to bring that down, andthat's also the point of
monitoring with the log booksfrom the hsc.
Okay, they're complicated logbooks, but you know that I try
to make them a simple form, um,and so what you do is you log it
(12:23):
and if it's 23, you've doneyour job because you've actually
done what was asked for you forthe compliance.
Yeah yeah, and so what you'relooking to do is to protect
yourself, right Hence why thetemperature?
Marc Smith (12:39):
Yeah, you mentioned the logbook.
There Is that part of the legalrequirement as well to just to
log every whoever does thechecks and when they've done
this yeah, that's that.
Dee Thornton (12:49):
It's called a logbook.
It's a sheet of paper, okay,and it's got temperatures and
you take them from the kitchentap, you might take them from
the wash hand basin, you mighttake them from the sentinel end
and so, depending on what yourbuilding looks like is where
you're taking the monitoring ofthe temperatures.
Marc Smith (13:08):
Right, right, and this person can have.
Obviously, you do trainingyourself to make things simpler,
but the person doesn't need tohave any official accreditation
to do this.
It's just a basic training withthe document.
Dee Thornton (13:23):
One of your questions you've asked me is you
know about risk assessments?
How do you start?
And actually I had somebody ona training course yesterday
saying, dee, could I do a riskassessment?
And they are available from theHSE website.
But the reality is, is that toget somebody to do a risk
(13:45):
assessment and they're not um,it depends on the complexity of
the building.
If you've got calorifiers,which are hot water tanks, if
you've got cold water tanks thatare providing the water to the
wash hand basins, you've gotkitchenette or a kitchen, you've
got three or four toilets, Iwould say get somebody in, okay,
(14:08):
a professional um, and makesure the risk assessment is is
readable, but thereafter you canthen decide right, okay, this
is what I've got, this is mybasic, basic, and off I go with
my maintenance and my monitoring, okay, my cleaning.
(14:32):
So if you get the basics donefirst, through training and also
risk assessment, it can helpexcellent that's good then.
Marc Smith (14:42):
Now I'm going to move on to smart monitoring.
That's one of my my passions isthis, this smart stuff,
everything, uh, although allwe're on a, a podcast just now,
but we have the video on I'm notsure if you've noticed the
light going off and on becauseI'm standing still.
It's because everything's smartand I I really do think it's a
benefit.
But I know you can get smartsystems for water heaters, so,
(15:10):
rather than you know you don'thave to run the tap just to get
that temperature, you canmonitor it from an app.
Are those still?
Are those legal in the world ofmonitoring for Legionella, or
is that something that's justlike a?
I don't think it's a quirk, butit could be seen as that.
Dee Thornton (15:30):
All right, two things here I'll say right at
the beginning let's get thebasics done first.
Okay, and the basics are theamount of village halls that
don't have compliance.
Marc Smith (15:43):
Okay, number one Okay number one.
Dee Thornton (15:45):
Okay, and I know there's quite a few.
All right, so we haven't gotthe basics, which are the risk
assessments.
We haven't got the cleaning ofthe calorifier done on an annual
basis.
We haven't got the cold watertank.
So, once you've got the basicsdone, water tank.
(16:08):
So once you've got the basicsdone, it's, it's it's.
Even though you naturally havean ambition towards smart
metering, okay, the reality is,is it's the cost to it and how
smart metering works in watermonitoring is that sensors are
put on the pipework to be ableto take the temperatures, that
then the data goes back to oneremote system yeah, all right,
(16:32):
and then it's managed and toldthrough and the data is then
reported through.
Okay, your temperatures are notwithin the legal requirements.
Okay, if a building is not used, but there are.
If people can get volunteers,okay, this is not a big job.
Okay, if somebody's local tothe building and they can call,
(16:55):
they can go into that buildingonce a month, but they still.
Marc Smith (16:58):
If it's the building's not used at all, it
would need weekly flushinganyway it's flushing, just
literally open up the tap,leaving it for a few minutes,
and turn off.
Dee Thornton (17:08):
That's all it is right, right yeah, and you have
to record it, you know.
So you know you can't just um,you know, say I've done the
flashing, and then you areaudited every other year after
you've done your risk assessmentand somebody says well, where's
the paperwork?
To say you did do the flushing.
Marc Smith (17:26):
Right right.
Dee Thornton (17:28):
Okay, because I can't see it.
Yeah, yeah, and so that's thedifficulty.
And if that person, somebody'sgoing in to do the flushing,
then why can't they be trainedto do the monitoring?
Yeah, I do appreciate whatyou're saying about smart
metering and I think there is aplace for it, especially when
(17:49):
you've got very large buildings.
But in this instance we'retalking about village halls and
community halls that may not beused.
That you know.
That might not need that formof technology, but it is
available.
Marc Smith (18:06):
Yeah, it was actually a campsite that I saw
on originally, who were heatingthe water tanks for Legionnaires
.
And that's what put it in myhead, that's what put it in my
head, but they were being usedevery day and he couldn't get
them to work and that's why Iwas in there helping him.
But you were saying there thata lot of village halls are not
actually compliant.
So what's the main bits thatare missing then when you go
(18:29):
into village hall?
Is it just the paperwork thatthey've not really done, or is
there anything from the riskassessment?
Dee Thornton (18:34):
you know, the thing is is I had a village hall
the other day that actually, inthis particular village hall,
was actually owned by the parishcouncil, right, and it was the
cost of getting themselves tothe standard of compliance.
They had four calorifiers.
(18:54):
Calorifier is a big waterheater Right, all right, never
been cleaned, full of nutrients,going through to spray taps,
going through to showers.
Yeah, the temperatures weren'tat the right level and the cost
just to get those calorifiers tothat standard was going to be
(19:20):
quite enormous.
So let's just put our head downand not think about it.
Marc Smith (19:24):
Right, right Right.
Dee Thornton (19:26):
There are ways around it, Okay, and it's
whether you know you can get ridof some of the bit large hot
water temperature andcalorifiers and then put in
small point of use if theshowers aren't linked to it.
Yeah, and most hotels won't haveit.
Okay, if you've got a coldwater tank that is um providing
(19:52):
water not just to the toiletsbut also to the wash hand basins
, that wash hat, that cold watertank has to be cleaned because
it's in the eaves and it's notgot insulation.
It might not follow waterregulations because it's been
over up there till a year, sincea year dot, and then the water
(20:17):
stagnation and the algae and thedead pigeons and everything
else sits into the cold watertank that's never been cleaned,
yeah, and the heat goes up.
That's going out to a spray tap.
It might also go down to adisabled toilet.
Then there are solutions aroundit.
Do we need the cold water tank?
(20:38):
Do we want to keep it?
Can we cut it off?
Can we put it on mains?
Yeah, what are our solutions?
Now, some of this won't be putonto a risk assessment.
I put it on mine, okay, becauseI give alternative suggestions
for so that people can think ofthe cost effectiveness of it.
But the reality is is that ifyou haven't got that in place
(21:02):
for a start, then we haven't gota starting ground.
We, we can't.
We can't move forward becauseyou have to have the risk
assessment and you have to treatit as a living document that
gets worked all the time allright.
Marc Smith (21:17):
Right, when you say clean the the water tank, do you
mean drain it and then like,basically scrub any lime scales
off the side of the the tankitself?
Or is it a chemical you put in?
Or do you just leave the wateropen for an hour?
What's?
Dee Thornton (21:31):
right the way the system works.
Is that, firstly, okay in acold water tank?
Um, some of them are very, very, very old and actually some of
them are still cast iron rightokay, okay, I'm seeing it.
And also rust cast iron yeah,nutrients here we go.
All right, then we, if it's aplastic one, has it got a lid on
(21:53):
it?
Has it got a vent on it?
Is it compliant to waterregulations?
Okay, then you open the lid andyou've got, um, you've got a
feast, yeah, okay.
Basically, you've got limescaleeverywhere, if you are in a
high limescale area, and it justneeds cleaning.
(22:15):
So what you do in a situationlike that?
You basically un-lid it, all,right, you put the disinfection,
you clean it out, right, okay,you put the disinfection in.
You take all of the sedimentfrom the bottom.
Okay, that again, don't forgetthat.
(22:37):
Cold water tanks draw down, okay, from the bottom.
The top stays very still, okay,and when the top stays very
still, it has everything on it.
Ok, it has birds, it hasspiders, it has lime, it has a
film, it has algae and all ofthose around the edges.
(22:59):
Now, as it's drawn from thebottom, ok, it goes down to.
It goes down to all the pipework.
You put the disinfection in.
Okay, you being a watertreatment company, because
you're going to need acertificate afterwards.
Yeah, it's all in the downservices, all in the pipe work.
(23:23):
You take it all through toevery single outlet.
You turn off all the taps andyou leave it for two hours.
All right, right, all right,because it's eating all of the
rubbish in all the pipe work,right, all right.
You then turn them all on, youdrain it down, you refill it
(23:48):
with water, okay, and then whathappens is you have it with
water, okay.
And then what happens is thatyou have little matchsticks Okay
, and each little matchstick,okay, if this is done properly,
okay, has got a little felt in,and then the water treatment
company goes along and justtouches all of the taps to make
(24:11):
sure all the disinfection iscleaned through the whole system
.
All right, right, yeah.
And then what you will get is acertificate to say I have been
disinfected, and that's how acold water tank gets cleaned.
Marc Smith (24:29):
All right, I might start bringing bottled water to
when I'm out and about.
It sounds horrible, doesn't itreally?
Dee Thornton (24:34):
Oh, no, no.
Marc Smith (24:36):
It's good that you have that, though you can.
If you've got an old system, itcan be saved.
You don't have to rip it outand put a new system in.
You can.
Dee Thornton (24:44):
No, you don't If it can be adapted, then so be it
.
If it can't, and or it's goingto be costly, then you don't do
it.
I'll give you another example.
I know we're talking aboutlegionella, but you know people
say right, I'm using my villagehall for nurseries, okay, you're
doing the squash for kids, okay.
(25:06):
And it says drinking water OK,drink here, it's all right.
And I went oh, really.
Have you tested it?
And that's called a totalviable count, tvc.
No, we haven't.
Now it's not a legalrequirement.
But I tell you what I wouldprefer to know once a year that
the water that's been deliveredto my tap is good.
(25:28):
Now it's not nothing to do withLegionella, but it's to do with
drinking water, and if you'vegot a little kid coming up and
she's drinking the water, youdon't want to have any bugs in
that water.
Marc Smith (25:41):
No, exactly, yeah, and once a year.
Dee Thornton (25:42):
it's not going to cause that much financial harm
to a village hall to have itdone, and then you can put your
sticker up there yeah, yeah.
Marc Smith (25:53):
Should a should a hall have put on display that
the the the water system hasbeen checked, is that is it.
Should it be no?
Dee Thornton (26:02):
you don't need to do it, you're just expected to
do it because, you see, thething is, the hsc have now just
recruited 250 inspectors tocheck for the five elements of
need which are asbestos, fire,electricity water I don't know
what the fourth or fifth one is.
(26:23):
So if they will come in andthey can do spot checks, have
you done this.
Have you done that?
Can do spot checks.
Have you done this?
Have you done that?
Okay.
And then they go work and theycome back in again and say, um,
yeah, okay, we've done it or wehaven't done it.
And if they haven't, youhaven't done it, then you've got
a certain amount of weeks toget it done by.
But they will come back andmake sure that you have, and
(26:46):
they'll just look at thepaperwork.
Marc Smith (26:47):
So that's why it's very important to keep that
paperwork.
Well, the first, the first wayis to also keep it.
Dee Thornton (26:52):
And there's also the knowledge.
So well, how did you do therisk assessment or not?
How did you?
But did you get the tankcleaned?
Okay, can I have thecertificate for that?
Where's your risk assessment?
Did you have samples?
Now, legionella samples?
I don't know if I'm right orwrong.
(27:13):
The majority of village hallswould not have showers.
Marc Smith (27:18):
Yeah.
Dee Thornton (27:19):
Okay, and showers is the highest level of spray
you can get for airborne youwith me for airborne and so when
I talked right at the beginning, you breathe it in, so you get.
(27:40):
If you get lime scale aroundthe head of a shower, then that
will be a nutrient and it's notjust what's on the outside of
the shower head, it's what's onthe inside and that's the
problem.
okay, so I'm deviating slightlybut, if a village hall or a
community center have a shower,those have got to be cleaned
(28:02):
quarterly and recorded all rightright and this is all part of
the training yeah, do you seewhat I mean?
So have you got that bit?
Have you got that bit?
And people go, oh my god,there's a lot to take in, but
there's not if you do it in theright order.
Really.
Marc Smith (28:17):
Yeah, you literally need a list, don't you really
just to tick off that you'vedone these things?
And I know what you're tickingoff.
Now here's a tangent for you.
Sometimes, when you go into abuilding, you'll see an area
it'll say not drinking water.
Is that because they've notbothered to?
They go okay, we can't do thetesting.
Well, let's say not drinking.
Why is that then?
What was?
Because some are drinking water, and then you'll see some taps
(28:41):
are just it says not fordrinking.
Dee Thornton (28:42):
Is that because it might not have been tested.
They might have had problemswith coliforms.
There might have been e coliwithin the area.
Very unlikely if it's E coli inthe building, but it's just for
washing hands.
But they have said, right, well, it's not drinking water
(29:03):
standard.
There's not many people thattalk about TVCs or drinking
water that are out there, really, I mean.
But for me personally I wouldprefer to know what I'm drinking
is okay, really.
You know, I think we're verygood in this country.
(29:24):
I think, where we do have theproblems with sewage and E coli,
the only reason that you'regoing to be worried in a
building is if you've got oldpipework coming into the
building on the mains and itcould crack and it's sitting
(29:45):
near the sewage pipework.
Who says it won't distort andcrack?
And then you've got a problem,do you see?
Marc Smith (29:53):
do you see?
Dee Thornton (29:54):
what I mean.
So so those so, but I don'tunderstand where they say not
drinking.
They might have had a case of aproblem with um with their
water at some point.
Marc Smith (30:05):
Yeah, that had caused them a tummy bug all
right, I'll definitely not beusing that for anything then.
Dee Thornton (30:11):
But that's not to do with Legionella, that's to do
with drinking water.
Marc Smith (30:17):
Right, that's good.
Thank you very much for yourtime here.
So I think it'd be good to talka little bit about yourself,
like, what is it that you do?
You've spent a lot of time onthis podcast, so what can you do
for village halls around thecountry?
If they were to contact you,what?
What could you do for them,especially if they're brand, if
(30:37):
they've just heard this podcast,like, oh, we've got to do this,
what?
What do you offer?
Well, I suppose anyone, butspecifically village halls okay.
Dee Thornton (30:47):
What I've recently been doing, Marc, is that I've
put a taster presentationtogether, okay, which is a
maximum of an hour and it's free.
And it's free to village hallsso that they can understand the
legalities, what Legionella is,and also what they have to do to
(31:12):
become compliant.
That's the first thing thatI've done, yeah, as well as that
, I have taken the opportunityand it's not financially of
interest to me to put a packagetogether to say, oh, my goodness
, we need to do this, but how dowe do it and how do we get
(31:35):
ourselves going?
Yeah, and there are a lot ofwater treatment companies out
there.
Some of them are good, okay,and some of them are not so good
, okay, so good, okay, wherethey may make the risk
(31:59):
assessment less user-friendly,and that's really difficult,
because you think you've donethe risk assessment and then you
can't read it because they'vemade it so complex that you go
back to them again say, right,well, can you, can you take over
the outsourcing of the whole ofthis?
And and I don't want that forvillage halls so, as well as
doing this taster from thetaster, then people go back to
their committee or whatever thegroup's called within the
(32:23):
village halls or the trusteesand they say, look, we have to
become compliant, I think weshould go on to a training
course.
So I then run a two-hourtraining course.
So I do a two-hour trainingcourse.
This is what everything thatyou need to know okay?
And then from there I get phonecalls or I get emails to say,
(32:48):
look, I need this to be done.
I've got a company that wouldtravel nationwide, okay, and do
the very basic that needs to bedone, and then for the village
hall to take over all of therest, right.
So the foundations are done.
Okay, get it sorted, let us nowtake ownership.
Marc Smith (33:12):
So you haven't got huge costs yeah, well, what I'll
do is, if it's okay withyourself, is I'll put a link on
the podcast page as well.
Yeah, your website where peoplecan sign up to that was your um
.
What's your training?
Was it like via?
Could you do it via Zoom or anonline portal?
Dee Thornton (33:28):
Zoom, teams, okay, whatsapp, okay, you name it.
Okay, mainly Zoom and Teams.
I do need a minimum of aboutfive, five, ten minimum, five,
maximum 15 village halls.
(33:51):
I'm doing a special price, okay, if we're going to talk about
money at £25 per village hall,but I need to make sure that
I've got enough on it to be ableto accumulate, and that's for a
two-hour course and you getdownloaded all the paperwork as
well, so that you've got alittle bit of clarity.
(34:11):
It's a good start and thenwonderful yeah and also I've got
the package price for the riskassessment and if you've got a
calorifier or if you've got atank, and that's the package
price as well, throughout thecounty so that people aren't
having to pay enormous a companyto do enormous travel expenses
(34:32):
or anything like that becauseall of these things accumulate
for a charity oh yeah, we weretalking that before about about
how halls struggle with funding.
Marc Smith (34:42):
So, yeah, having having that is uh is ideal, and
I need to say as well, this hasbeen recorded in 2025, so in
case someone listens to it, nextyear your price goes up.
This was a 2025, just in caseyou never know.
Well, thank you very much, uh,for your time, dean.
Uh, I'm not sure if you've gotany other thoughts, but I think
I've rattled off all thequestions I have in my mind
(35:03):
about it.
I mean, it's a.
It's a.
I didn't think it was this.
Well, I knew about it.
I didn't know about it, but Ididn't know it was, how serious
it was and how often you had todo things.
But I take for granted, byliving in a house, you'll have
the tap on every day anyway, youknow, and just the most basics.
But the village hall, like ourone, I suppose it could be a
week before someone's in, so Inever really thought about it.
Dee Thornton (35:27):
I will say this if don't mind me.
Marc is that it's thevulnerability of the type of
people using a village hall yeahand if you've got elderly
people, okay, who may have umbreathing difficulties, immune
systems, those are thevulnerable because it's a lung
(35:47):
disorder, yeah, and so, um, youknow, people have elderly, have
COPD and all of those make thatvulnerability really um more
poignant, really, and um, it's,it's really up to the um
trustees of the village halls tomake sure that they protect
(36:09):
those people.
That's what I think isimportant.
Marc Smith (36:13):
A hundred percent?
Yeah, definitely.
Well, thank you very much foryour time, dee.
Thank you very much indeed.
Thank you, no worries.
Many thanks to our headlinesponsor and specialist village
hall insurance provider, AlliedWestminster, the home of Village
Guard, for making this podcastpossible, and to online booking
system provider, Hallmaster, whoalso sponsor our podcast and
(36:34):
can be found at hallmaster.
co.
uk.
You've been listening to theVillage Halls podcast, a unique
listening community forBritain's village community and
church halls and anyoneinterested in the vital services
they provide.
Don't forget entries for theVillage Halls Inspiration Awards
2025 are open now until the30th of September, so visit our
(36:56):
website to find out more and getinvolved.
We will be back again soon withanother episode.
For more information, visitthevillagehallspodcast.
com, where you'll also findlinks to our social media pages.
Thanks again for listening inand until next time.
Goodbye for now.
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