July 18, 2022 • 31 mins
In episode 121, host Eric Dickmann talks with Nick Rimsa - Owner of Tortoise Labs where he offers services as fractional Co-Founder to help ambitious entrepreneurs develop their ideas into profitable apps, products, and services.
Located in Maine, Tortise Labs has a mission is to help Mainers turn their ideas into profitable, scalable startups.
For more information and access to the resources mentioned in this episode, visit: https://fiveechelon.com/growing-business-fractional-co-founder-s8ep6/
A fractional CMO can help build out a comprehensive marketing strategy and execute targeted campaigns designed to increase awareness and generate demand for your business...without the expense of a full-time hire.
The Five Echelon Group - Fractional CMO and strategic marketing advisory services designed for SMBs looking to grow. Learn more at:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Dickmann (00:01):
Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.
I'm your host, Eric Dickmann.
In this podcast, we haveconversations with marketing
professionals who share thestrategies, tactics, and mindset
you can use to improve theeffectiveness of your marketing
activities and grow yourbusiness.
Today, I'm excited to have guestNick Rimsa on the program.
(00:22):
Nick is the founder of TortoiseLabs, a rural product studio
located in Maine.
Nick serves as a FractionalCo-founder to help first time
founders start and growsustainable and profitable
businesses.
Nick, welcome to the program.
Nick Rimsa (00:36):
Thank you so much for having me, Eric.
Eric Dickmann (00:38):
This is gonna be an interesting conversation.
You know, this podcast is reallyfocused on marketing.
It's focused on this whole ideaof fractional CMOs, fractional
executives that come intocompanies and help them out.
And when I was first introducedto you, I saw this whole concept
of being a fractionalco-founder, which fascinated me.
So I'm very interested to getinto the details of that today.
(01:01):
I'd love it if as we kick thingsoff, you could give the audience
it's a little bit more of anexpanded background, share how
you got to Tortoise Labs, andhow things got started.
Nick Rimsa (01:12):
Sure.
So I have been a researcher anddesigner for nine years working
throughout the country,primarily in New York City,
Boston, Philadelphia.
Four years ago, I had theopportunity to teach a product
design course at Colby Collegeand thought, Hey, this seems
like a really interesting thingto do at the time I was working
independently for variousstartups and agencies and taught
(01:36):
the course, it went great andnoticed, wow, there are a lot of
students and members of thecommunity who wanna bring their
ideas to life, but they'restruggling with those first
steps.
And that had always been mybackground, focused on customer
research and prototyping andthought- Hey, this is an
opportunity to continue to stayon board here at the college and
continue to work with folkswithin the community.
(01:59):
One thing led to another, interms of partnerships, in terms
of folks I'm working with, andultimately that led to
establishing this businesscalled Tortoise Labs, which is
an incubator that helps firsttime founders go from idea to
first paying customers.
And now it's your four livinghere and have had the chance to
work with hundreds of founders,dozens of organizations, and
(02:20):
haven't had a chance to do somereally fun things.
Eric Dickmann (02:22):
Do you find that the startup community is pretty
strong and thriving up in Maine?
Nick Rimsa (02:28):
Surprisingly, yes.
So when I first moved here, Ididn't have any sort of
understanding about what thefoundation looked like, what the
community looked like.
And now having been here forfour years, it's grown
tremendously just in that amountof time, not only the number of
organizations that are assistingfounders, but also the number of
(02:50):
founders who are buildingreally, really interesting
things.
It's been tremendous to seewhat's happened in such a short
amount of time and havinggraduated from college about 10
years ago here in Maine, havingseen what's changed in 10 years,
it's been tremendous.
Eric Dickmann (03:05):
We're living in this time of The Great
Resignation, you know, we'vegone through COVID,, changes in
the workplace dynamic peoplewanting to work remotely and
leaving the corporate world.
Have you found that this is justan incredible time for, young
founders to sort of say, I'vegot an idea.
I wanna make a business out ofthis.
Do you really see exponentialgrowth in people wanting to
(03:26):
start up a company?
Nick Rimsa (03:28):
Yes.
And I would say not just youngfounders, but people of all
ages.
I think one trend that I'mseeing a lot, especially lately
are parents who are considering,Hey, this is an opportune time
for me to explore an idea thatI've had for a long time.
And also teachers who perhapsmight have a summer vacation and
might think, Hey, this is anopportunity for me to kick
(03:50):
something off and get startedwith an idea that I've always
had, but haven't quite yetinvestigated.
Eric Dickmann (03:56):
You know, it's funny.
I've got a business degree andpeople go to school to learn the
fundamentals of business, right?
But you don't sort of start withall those fundamentals and say
I'm gonna start a companywithout really having some sort
of a product or an idea aboutwhat it is that that company's
gonna sell.
Typically it starts the otherway around, right?
Somebody has an idea for aproduct or a service, but might
(04:18):
not have that background interms of how to run a business.
So I'm curious when somebodycomes to you and says- Hey, I've
got this idea.
How does that conversationstart?
What are some of the initialthings that you start to talk
about when you meet withsomebody for the first time?
Nick Rimsa (04:34):
The conversations, regardless if someone's building
an app or a product or aservice, generally start very
similarly.
And those conversations startwith a focus on customer and
value proposition.
Who is the person who you wantto help and what is it that you
want to help them to accomplish.
And so that usually sets thefoundation for then what's to
(04:54):
come.
And that usually is going totalk to those people who might
ideally be customers.
The focus of what I'm trying todo helping first time founders
is to establish who's thecustomer to then go talk to
those people to identify what isit that those people might have
a willingness to pay for to thenbuild whatever that thing might
be with the least amount ofeffort, money, and time, so that
(05:18):
those founders can evaluatedemand.
I think one thing that foundersso often, especially first time
founders get stuck on are all ofthe other things that go into
building a business, right?
Whether that's branding orcoloring or messaging or any of
the multitude of otherthings.But really at the end of
the day, the founder's job is tounderstand who their customer
(05:42):
is, understand what it is thatthey want, and to sell them
whatever that thing is.
Eric Dickmann (05:46):
You're exactly right.
We see that all the time inmarketing too.
You know, the first thing thatpeople wanna do is get that
business card or create thatlogo without really
understanding necessarily theiroverall strategy.
And I'm curious in some of theseconversations, as you talk about
the target market, you talkabout that willingness to buy
whatever product or servicethey're creating, do the light
(06:07):
bulbs really start to go off ina lot of founders'' minds and do
they see that there really is amarketplace for their product,
or is that a time when a lotthese founders get weeded out?
Nick Rimsa (06:18):
It's a little bit of both.
So time of course reveals truth.
And so the longer you have anopportunity to work with
someone, the more that not onlyyou get to build the
relationship with them, but alsothey begin to understand the
foundation and fundamentals ofwhatever it is that they're
building.
And so generally what I find isthe folks who are ultimately
(06:39):
most successful are the ones whofocus the most on their
customers, who spend the mosttime with them who ask them the
most questions, who build thedeepest relationships, and so
often, those are the people whoare having success from the very
get go than those people who areinvesting that amount of time.
And I think what's always themost interesting to me is that
(06:59):
oftentimes, those are the folkswho don't come from backgrounds
of business or backgrounds oftechnology in any way.
Those are folks who perhaps areparents or school teachers, or
just working some nine to fivein which they aren't necessarily
even talking to customers, butthey innately have an
understanding of, Hey, I need totalk to people to understand
(07:21):
what it is that I need to build,and then I need to build that
thing.
And so that straight line thatcutting out of all of these
other distractions, the businesscard, as you mentioned,
oftentimes leads those folks toquick success.
Eric Dickmann (07:34):
My experience has been working with a lot of
companies is that founders oftenthink that their product or
service is really unique.
It's really something completelydifferent in the market.
And I tend to look at it as aniteration.
It's something that may beslightly better than something
else out there, it may be aslight improvement, has an
(07:55):
additional set of features,maybe targets the market a
little bit differently, butrarely do I come across
companies who truly havesomething revolutionary, doesn't
exist in the marketplace today.
Do you see that a lot both interms of the products that
they're bringing and the mindsetthat they have, this mindset,
they've got something that'struly unique and doesn't exist?
Nick Rimsa (08:15):
An attitude that I see a lot is when founders are
worried that someone might copytheir idea because it's new or
novel or different.
And to your point, you know,oftentimes the feedback that I
give is that nobody copies a badidea.
If you have a good idea, andyou're able to find customers,
you're able to establish amarket.
(08:36):
Ultimately there will be othermarket participants.
And if you're someone who has anidea that notices, wow, there
already is a market for it.
That's not a reason to quit.
I think that oftentimes that's areason to proceed because that
business or that set ofbusinesses has already evaluated
demand.
They've done the hard work foryou already.
(08:56):
And so I think that to yourpoint, ideas are oftentimes one
notch different than before, orone slightly different value
prop than before.
And I think that regardless ofthe idea, if you're a founder
who is able to establish whoyour customer is, understand
what the core value prop is,you're gonna be able to deliver
(09:20):
upon some success.
Eric Dickmann (09:23):
I'm a big Apple fan, have been so for years, and
there's sort of a saying in theApple community, they call it
being sherlocked.
Early in Mac OS 10, there was aproduct, Apple basically copied
the product, integrated it intothe operating system, and it was
called Sherlock when they didit.
But the point of it is, is thatit was something that was a
(09:44):
logical add-on to the technologythat they already had.
And yes, some independentdeveloper came up with it first,
but it was something that youcould logically see being added
to the core of what they offer.
And oftentimes I see businessesgoing to market with the
product, and this is certainlytrue in the app world, where you
can see that functionality orthat thing being copied, because
(10:05):
really it's simply a feature,it's not sort of a standalone
independent thing.
Do you see that often as well?
Nick Rimsa (10:12):
I do, yes.
I think oftentimes the founderswho have the most success are
the ones who have a deepunderstanding about their
customer and their market.
And it's sometimes because theyactually come from that realm
and they have an understandingabout.
Hey, what's the differencebetween a core value prop and
what's the difference between anice to have feature.
And I think oftentimes whattends to uncover that is talking
(10:36):
to potential customers aboutwhat it is that they're hoping
to bring to market and reallyfocusing on real behavior rather
than, Hey, is this somethingthat you might be interested in
having?
One of the first key readingsthat, I ask founders to, to
complete is the mom test, whichis a book about how to talk to
customers and so much of thatbook is focused on real
(10:58):
behavior, understanding- Hey,what are folks actually doing?
What are folks actually goingabout in their regular day to
day?
And so often those conversationsare what ultimately uncover and
untangle, Hey, what's actuallyvaluable from what's something
that's nice to have or what'ssomething that can be just a
feature?
You know, because thatfoundational piece is, if it's
(11:20):
something that folks have awillingness to pay for potential
customers have a willingness topay for, then that founder
established and found somethingthat is truly valuable and not
just nice.
Eric Dickmann (11:30):
Yeah.
I often think, especially in thetechnology world, I've dealt
with a lot of technologycompanies in my day.
And you know, you take a look atsomething as ubiquitous as like
Microsoft Office and all thecapability that all of those
programs bring to a user.
And yes, there's an incrediblybig company behind it, but it's
an incredibly powerful suite ofproducts and it sells for a
premium price.
(11:51):
And sometimes then I see alittle app come along that does
one very specific thing, andit's priced almost at the same
level that this huge suite oftechnology products is priced
at.
And I think to myself, thisseems to be a mismatch.
You're asking for something fargreater than the utility or the
value that I as a user think itbrings and rarely would I ever
(12:11):
purchase something like that,unless it truly does something
unique that nobody else does inthe marketplace.
And to me, this gets to thewhole idea of the economics,
whether a product is viable.
And do you see, oftentimes whenfounders start thinking about
pricing their products, thatthey're overly ambitious in
terms of how much they thinkthey can sell that product for?
Nick Rimsa (12:31):
I tend to find the opposite.
Eric Dickmann (12:33):
Really?
They undervalue
Nick Rimsa (12:34):
I tend to find that a lot of founders undervalue
because they are seeing whatyou're describing.
They're seeing large companiespricing things lower than what
they might be able to receivefrom their customers.
And like these are first timefounders traditionally, like
(12:54):
they don't have pricing power,they don't have the ability to
you know, scale up rapidly.
And I think oftentimes whatconversations reveal is, Hey,
actually my customers have ahigher willingness to pay than I
expected because they'reascribing a different value than
what I expected, right?
They are saying- Hey, this toolhelps me to save 20 hours a week
(13:17):
and here's my hourly rate.
So now this isn't just a$10 amonth SaaS product, this is
something that's why I leavevaluable.
And I think one really helpfultidbit that the most successful
founders, especially withinsoftware land that I'm working
with tend to do is they have areally good understanding about-
(13:39):
Hey, what does my customer havea willingness to pay?
And what does customer numbertwo, have a willingness to pay?
I think oftentimes, um,especially as founders are
getting going, it's totally okayto charge different prices to
different customers.
And ultimately that of coursesets the market, but getting
started with customers 1, 2, 3,4, 5, maybe even as, as high as
10 or 20 customers, it's okay tocharge different prices.
(14:02):
And oftentimes that's then whatreveals, Hey, my customers
actually have a much higherwillingness to pay than I
initially anticipated.
And wow.
I've got something here that hasnot only only is super valuable,
but also has some great marginsand we're gonna be able to scale
so much faster because we'recharging so much more.
Eric Dickmann (14:22):
Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to
the podcast.
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(14:43):
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(15:06):
Services.
Now back to the podcast.
I'm interested too, in thiswhole concept that you have of a
Fractional Co-founder, oftenwith incubators, you hear things
phrase more as mentoring, right?
Mentoring relationships with theco-founders, helping them get
started.
So how do you sort of move fromthat into a Fractional
(15:26):
Co-founder where I assume you'rehaving some sort of ownership
interest in the company.
How does that work and how dothose engagements get started?
How do you have thatconversation?
Nick Rimsa (15:36):
Well, the short answer is it depends.
But traditionally, it starts allwith establishing a trusting
relationship and establishing along-term relationship with the
founders who I'm working with,regardless if I'm going to
ultimately be playing a largerrole or not.
Because again, these are folkswho are getting started normally
for the first time, there are somany pitfalls that they don't
(15:59):
quite yet understand, or theyhaven't yet experienced.
And they're putting a whole heckof a lot of trust into the work
that I'm doing.
And so, to me, it's reallyimportant to first establish a,
a really high level of trustwith whoever it is that I'm
working with.
And generally, I'm notnecessarily coming on as an
operator for an extended periodof time, right?
(16:20):
That founder first needs toestablish who's my customer?
What's the value that I'mdelivering?
And then what's the product orservice that I'm bringing to
market?
And can I sustain this for acertain level of time?
Can I sell this duct tapesolution?
So oftentimes founders, evenwith good ideas come to market
and they are actually able tosell the product.
(16:41):
And so at that point it's like,okay, well sure, I definitely
would be valuable as a sales andmarketing helper, but if they're
not able to move the productthemselves, well, then they're
not gonna be able to get thefeedback that helps them to
improve the product, that helpsthem to improve messaging and so
on and so forth.
So generally it's once theyreach a certain threshold in
(17:01):
which they're working, for lackof a better term, they're
working like a dog, and they areunable to sort of pass through
that next precipice of growth,whether that's going from$5,000
a month of revenue to 10 or 10to 20, but generally that
conversation just starts, Itstarts generally pretty
(17:23):
organically.
Like, Hey, I'm kind of gettingto the end of my ability to get
stuff done in a week.
And I see that there's demandthat I'm not able to necessarily
get to myself, but if I had moretime or if I had some help, I
would be able to get to it.
And so it's less of what is thisfounder going to be able to do
with me, and it's more, what am,what am I actually going to be
(17:45):
able to do in order to unlockthis founder?
And so.
It, it comes up organically.
It's a conversation that takesplace, not in one sitting, but
over the course, generally ofseveral months and ultimately
sort of figuring out, Hey, wheremight I actually be valuable
here?
Is it me loaning a small amountof money?
(18:06):
Helping you to get some grantfunding in order to attach a
contractor or set ofcontractors, or do you actually
need an operator in which, youknow, I might be able to step in
and provide five or 10 hours aweek and actually get this thing
really going.
So the short answer is itdepends.
It's a really long conversationthat stretches over an extended
(18:28):
period of time.
And I think what's mostimportant there too is to
establish, Hey, what is thefounder going to be really good
at?
And where might I be able toactually provide additional
value?
Eric Dickmann (18:40):
I'm glad we are having this conversation because
it really isn't one we've duginto on this program before, but
I think a lot of people look atoutside help and say, I, I just
can't afford it.
And I think if you're looking atneeding outside help and having
that conversation aboutaffordability, you have to be
creative.
There are a lot of differentways to engage outside help,
(19:00):
right?
Sure, there's hourly rates wherepeople can come in and provide
services for an hourly rate,there's flat rate engagements
where they may have a retainerand give you so many hours a
month of service.
But then there are also thingslike equity arrangements where
somebody can come in and say,well, I'm not gonna charge you
upfront, but I'd like a littlebit of share of the business to
help you get to that point ofgrowth.
(19:21):
There's a lot of creativity outthere, especially for people
doing this kinds of fractionalwork.
And I encourage people if theyneed the help to have those
kinds of conversations andexplore ways to work together.
Wouldn't you agree?
Nick Rimsa (19:34):
Absolutely.
And I think to your point, sooftentimes early stage founders
are stuck on, oh man, I gotta goraise a round of money and
raising money, especially fromVC land.
It's not the only direction thatallows you to get to a level of
sustainability andprofitability.
Oftentimes there is arequirement to get creative,
whether that be with splittingup time, amongst different
(19:57):
contractors, whether that meansadding a teammate or two and
giving up some equity or addingsomeone fractionally and giving
up some equity, I think youknow, famously a hundred percent
of zero is zero.
And so if you're unable to growthe business to a certain stage
on your own, that's not afunction of defeat, you're not a
bad founder because you're notable to do that.
There's so much that needs toget accomplished as a one person
(20:20):
team.
So if you're able to spread out,not only that work, but also
that risk amongst more people,then you're probably better off
for the long term and it'scertainly viable to have
conversations and explore in anumber of different ways.
One point that I didn't mentionin the previous response is that
(20:40):
oftentimes, like whenever I'mworking with someone for the
first time and I'm establishing,Hey, is this person going to be
a good contractor, a goodteammate, long term?
I'm giving out short termprojects to see, to test, to
experiment, to see- Hey, is thisperson actually gonna be good?
Do we work together well?
Do they establish what needs toget done and do they do it on
time?
Do they communicate well?
(21:01):
And I oftentimes encouragefounders who are considering
some sort of fractionalagreement or adding a teammate
to do the exact same thing tosay, Hey, this is a problem that
I'm facing, I need you to gofigure this out because
oftentimes in a early stagebusiness, there aren't a whole
heck of a lot of constraints orguard rails, there just is a
problem that needs to be solved.
(21:22):
And so oftentimes what I'm doingis encouraging just that like,
Hey, establish a short termproject for someone to be able
to figure out without a wholeheck of a lot of constraints,
and are they able to do it?
Are they able to achieve what itis that you want?
And did you work together well?
And I'm doing that with firsttime founders who are interested
in potentially working togetherand say, Hey, is this actually
(21:45):
gonna work out?
Because it's important not onlyjust for them, but for me as
well.
Eric Dickmann (21:49):
It's like you know, don't skip ahead from the
first date to getting married,right?
You don't have to look atsomething and say, just based on
this little bit of information,I'm gonna make a lifelong
decision.
Yeah, those kind of earlyprojects where you can start to
build that trust, see how youwork together, there's a lot of
collaboration and trust that hasto happen in any kind of working
relationship if you want it tobe successful.
(22:11):
And so, yeah, I completelyagree.
It's great to have those smallerprojects up front so that you
can test things out and buildthat trust together.
I'm curious, too as you workwith these founders, what do you
see as the role of marketing?
How do you advise them when itcomes to marketing?
Because I know there's atemptation for many people to
either do it too soon or not doit soon enough, right?
(22:33):
And they wait too long beforethey apply the gas pedal if you
will to the marketing engine,how do you look at marketing
when you have those discussionswith these founders?
Nick Rimsa (22:42):
I think it all starts with those same couple of
questions.
Who's the customer who you'reserving and what is the value
that you're providing?
Oftentimes when I'm working withfolks early on, we're focused
first on sales, we're focusedfirst on one to one.
Hey, are you actually able to goout and find these people, talk
to them, learn from them, sellto them.
And not only until thesefounders have a deep, deep
(23:05):
understanding about who theircustomer is and one, the value
is that they are providing, canthey then move to marketing.
I think oftentimes to yourpoint, right, it's really,
really easy to skip aheadbecause it's fun, it seems
productive, it seems like you'regetting so, so much done.
If you're able to spin up asocial media account and start
posting, or you're able to hoponto a podcast and start talking
(23:27):
about what it is that you'reselling, but unless you have a
really clear understanding aboutwho your customer is and what
you're ultimately helping themto achieve, you might be running
in circles.
And so oftentimes, we aren'teven establishing any sort of
marketing schedule, any sort ofmarketing content, any cohesive
plan, really, until there's aclear understanding of, Hey,
(23:49):
what's this approach sales wise?
What's the approach one to one?
Are we able to do thiseffectively?
Okay, we are.
Now we can take the lessons thatwe've learned, the messaging,
the people who we should be incontact with, and we can create
valuable content that helps themon a marketing scale.
Eric Dickmann (24:05):
Yeah, because there's no doubt about it,
marketing is an expense, right?
But done correctly, it can be anengine for growth.
But that engine for growth onlyworks when there's revenue,
right?
You have to have sales.
And so if your marketing isn'tproducing sales, it can be
problematic because you can burnthrough money very quickly.
My experience has been that manyyoung companies they're so
(24:25):
excited about brand awareness,right?
They want to get their name outinto the world, they want to get
that recognition, but they don'tnecessarily have a plan to turn
that recognition into sales.
Nick Rimsa (24:35):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's so true.
And it's frustrating to seebecause it's like- Hey, you've
got something really good here.
If you actually slowed down andtook your time, you'd be able to
go faster later.
So it's a conversation that Ihave quite often.
It's like- Hey, first let'sestablish what this offering is.
Let's establish if you're ableto move this product one to one.
(24:57):
And then at that point, thatcost becomes an investment
because folks have a clearunderstanding about who it is
that I'm targeting, what Ishould be targeting them, and
how am I actually being helpfulor valuable in the content that
I'm producing marketing wise andhow can I get in front of people
at the right time so that theycan then make a decision and
ultimately become a customerthrough market?
Eric Dickmann (25:17):
Are there some resources that you found
particularly helpful as you haveconversations with startup
founders and young companies,you know, there are so many
great books and podcasts andthings like that out there.
Where do you go to get educatedor to find additional resources
for your own benefit?
Nick Rimsa (25:35):
I rely a lot on Twitter.
Eric Dickmann (25:37):
Yeah.
Nick Rimsa (25:38):
I've been very lucky to, for a long time, just sit
there and learn and not reallycontribute much of anything, and
have found some really amazingmarketers, a couple that come to
mind right off the bat, AmandaNatividad and Harry Dry.
Both of them focus a lot oncopy.
To me.
(25:59):
copy is design.
I think copy is wildly, wildlyhelpful.
I think whenever I'm workingwith folks on anything digital,
that's step one of wherever westart, it's like- Hey, let's
make sure we think about copy asdesign and let's start there.
And so recently have relied alot on how do I improve my copy?
(26:19):
How do I actually speak tocustomers better using their own
language.
And that's really becomefoundational to a lot of the
work that I'm doing.
Couple of the other people whoI've been really lucky to follow
and learn from and more recentlywork with, Annie Batcher is one,
(26:40):
Grace Baldwin is another.
They lead a very smallcopywriting and case study
agency, they do just some reallytremendous work and have been
really lucky to rely upon theirlearning.
So I think that if you'resomeone who is interested in
learning more about sales andmarketing, I use Twitter a lot.
I found find the accounts thatI'm able to actually learn from,
(27:04):
to benefit from.
And follow them for as long asthey provide value.
And for some of these people whoI just mentioned, they've been
providing value for as long asI've had an account and continue
to learn from.
So have been very, very lucky toget to learn from some of these
people from afar.
And then more recently have hadthe chance to work closely with
them.
Eric Dickmann (27:23):
You're absolutely right.
Podcasts, Twitter, YouTube,there are so many people who are
willing to share theirknowledge, the resources that we
have at our disposal are, arejust incredible.
And I'm curious for yourself atTortoise Labs, you know, what do
you view as your ideal customer?
If somebody's listening to thistoday and say, boy, I could
really use that kind of help,I'd never really thought about
(27:45):
having a Fractional Co-founderbefore, what would you say would
be your ideal customer?
Nick Rimsa (27:50):
Well, I would say there's two.
The first is someone who has anidea they're not sure quite
where to get started, they'vebeen struggling with the
resources that they have orthey're overwhelmed by
information, and they'd like tobring something to market.
Ideally they come from some sortof industry or market in which
they have a deep understandingabout whatever it is that they
(28:11):
want to bring to market.
But if not, that's totally okay,too.
So I would say that's personnumber one.
And then thing number two isactually an organization.
It's a nonprofit or a collegethat has an audience that's
entrepreneurial nature and wantsto help them at a slightly
larger scale.
So think of economic based, notnon-profits who are interested
(28:34):
in growing the number of smallbusinesses in their state are
interested in growing themlocally, those might be good
folks for me to work with tohelp establish what that
programming might be so thatthey can access more founders at
a local or state level, and helpgrow their ideas into
sustainable and profitablebusiness.
Eric Dickmann (28:55):
That's good.
That's succinct.
I like that.
If somebody's listening to thatand that's them, how is the best
way that they can reach youeither through LinkedIn,
Twitter, your website, givepeople a chance to find you on
the web.
Nick Rimsa (29:09):
Sure.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So if you head totortoiselabs.com, there's a
contact form there.
You can find me there.
I live on my machine, so I'measy to get ahold of.
You can follow me on Twitter atNick Rimsa, R I M S A, or on
LinkedIn with the same name,Nick Rimsa.
So, thank you for letting meplug my things.
Eric Dickmann (29:31):
No, absolutely.
As I said, you know, when wewere first introduced, I really
was fascinated by this conceptof a Fractional Co-founder and
you've done a great job ofexplaining the benefits of it
today.
So I really hope that theaudience has found value in it
as well.
And I will certainly make surethat everything that you
mentioned there is linked up inthe show notes so that people
can find you and reach out ifthey're the appropriate kind of
(29:52):
customer for you.
Nick, I really appreciate yourtime today, I've really enjoyed
our conversation.
Nick Rimsa (29:57):
Me too, Eric.
Eric Dickmann (30:01):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of
The Virtual CMO podcast.
For more episodes, go tofiveechelon.com/podcast to
subscribe through your podcastplayer of choice.
And if you'd like to developconsistent lead flow and a
highly effective marketingstrategy, visit fiveechelon.com
to learn more about our VirtualCMO consulting services.
Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.
I'm your host, Eric Dickmann.
In this podcast, we haveconversations with marketing
professionals who share thestrategies, tactics, and mindset
you can use to improve theeffectiveness of your marketing
activities and grow yourbusiness.
Today, I'm excited to have guestNick Rimsa on the program.
(00:22):
Nick is the founder of TortoiseLabs, a rural product studio
located in Maine.
Nick serves as a FractionalCo-founder to help first time
founders start and growsustainable and profitable
businesses.
Nick, welcome to the program.
Nick Rimsa (00:36):
Thank you so much for having me, Eric.
Eric Dickmann (00:38):
This is gonna be an interesting conversation.
You know, this podcast is reallyfocused on marketing.
It's focused on this whole ideaof fractional CMOs, fractional
executives that come intocompanies and help them out.
And when I was first introducedto you, I saw this whole concept
of being a fractionalco-founder, which fascinated me.
So I'm very interested to getinto the details of that today.
(01:01):
I'd love it if as we kick thingsoff, you could give the audience
it's a little bit more of anexpanded background, share how
you got to Tortoise Labs, andhow things got started.
Nick Rimsa (01:12):
Sure.
So I have been a researcher anddesigner for nine years working
throughout the country,primarily in New York City,
Boston, Philadelphia.
Four years ago, I had theopportunity to teach a product
design course at Colby Collegeand thought, Hey, this seems
like a really interesting thingto do at the time I was working
independently for variousstartups and agencies and taught
(01:36):
the course, it went great andnoticed, wow, there are a lot of
students and members of thecommunity who wanna bring their
ideas to life, but they'restruggling with those first
steps.
And that had always been mybackground, focused on customer
research and prototyping andthought- Hey, this is an
opportunity to continue to stayon board here at the college and
continue to work with folkswithin the community.
(01:59):
One thing led to another, interms of partnerships, in terms
of folks I'm working with, andultimately that led to
establishing this businesscalled Tortoise Labs, which is
an incubator that helps firsttime founders go from idea to
first paying customers.
And now it's your four livinghere and have had the chance to
work with hundreds of founders,dozens of organizations, and
(02:20):
haven't had a chance to do somereally fun things.
Eric Dickmann (02:22):
Do you find that the startup community is pretty
strong and thriving up in Maine?
Nick Rimsa (02:28):
Surprisingly, yes.
So when I first moved here, Ididn't have any sort of
understanding about what thefoundation looked like, what the
community looked like.
And now having been here forfour years, it's grown
tremendously just in that amountof time, not only the number of
organizations that are assistingfounders, but also the number of
(02:50):
founders who are buildingreally, really interesting
things.
It's been tremendous to seewhat's happened in such a short
amount of time and havinggraduated from college about 10
years ago here in Maine, havingseen what's changed in 10 years,
it's been tremendous.
Eric Dickmann (03:05):
We're living in this time of The Great
Resignation, you know, we'vegone through COVID,, changes in
the workplace dynamic peoplewanting to work remotely and
leaving the corporate world.
Have you found that this is justan incredible time for, young
founders to sort of say, I'vegot an idea.
I wanna make a business out ofthis.
Do you really see exponentialgrowth in people wanting to
(03:26):
start up a company?
Nick Rimsa (03:28):
Yes.
And I would say not just youngfounders, but people of all
ages.
I think one trend that I'mseeing a lot, especially lately
are parents who are considering,Hey, this is an opportune time
for me to explore an idea thatI've had for a long time.
And also teachers who perhapsmight have a summer vacation and
might think, Hey, this is anopportunity for me to kick
(03:50):
something off and get startedwith an idea that I've always
had, but haven't quite yetinvestigated.
Eric Dickmann (03:56):
You know, it's funny.
I've got a business degree andpeople go to school to learn the
fundamentals of business, right?
But you don't sort of start withall those fundamentals and say
I'm gonna start a companywithout really having some sort
of a product or an idea aboutwhat it is that that company's
gonna sell.
Typically it starts the otherway around, right?
Somebody has an idea for aproduct or a service, but might
(04:18):
not have that background interms of how to run a business.
So I'm curious when somebodycomes to you and says- Hey, I've
got this idea.
How does that conversationstart?
What are some of the initialthings that you start to talk
about when you meet withsomebody for the first time?
Nick Rimsa (04:34):
The conversations, regardless if someone's building
an app or a product or aservice, generally start very
similarly.
And those conversations startwith a focus on customer and
value proposition.
Who is the person who you wantto help and what is it that you
want to help them to accomplish.
And so that usually sets thefoundation for then what's to
(04:54):
come.
And that usually is going totalk to those people who might
ideally be customers.
The focus of what I'm trying todo helping first time founders
is to establish who's thecustomer to then go talk to
those people to identify what isit that those people might have
a willingness to pay for to thenbuild whatever that thing might
be with the least amount ofeffort, money, and time, so that
(05:18):
those founders can evaluatedemand.
I think one thing that foundersso often, especially first time
founders get stuck on are all ofthe other things that go into
building a business, right?
Whether that's branding orcoloring or messaging or any of
the multitude of otherthings.But really at the end of
the day, the founder's job is tounderstand who their customer
(05:42):
is, understand what it is thatthey want, and to sell them
whatever that thing is.
Eric Dickmann (05:46):
You're exactly right.
We see that all the time inmarketing too.
You know, the first thing thatpeople wanna do is get that
business card or create thatlogo without really
understanding necessarily theiroverall strategy.
And I'm curious in some of theseconversations, as you talk about
the target market, you talkabout that willingness to buy
whatever product or servicethey're creating, do the light
(06:07):
bulbs really start to go off ina lot of founders'' minds and do
they see that there really is amarketplace for their product,
or is that a time when a lotthese founders get weeded out?
Nick Rimsa (06:18):
It's a little bit of both.
So time of course reveals truth.
And so the longer you have anopportunity to work with
someone, the more that not onlyyou get to build the
relationship with them, but alsothey begin to understand the
foundation and fundamentals ofwhatever it is that they're
building.
And so generally what I find isthe folks who are ultimately
(06:39):
most successful are the ones whofocus the most on their
customers, who spend the mosttime with them who ask them the
most questions, who build thedeepest relationships, and so
often, those are the people whoare having success from the very
get go than those people who areinvesting that amount of time.
And I think what's always themost interesting to me is that
(06:59):
oftentimes, those are the folkswho don't come from backgrounds
of business or backgrounds oftechnology in any way.
Those are folks who perhaps areparents or school teachers, or
just working some nine to fivein which they aren't necessarily
even talking to customers, butthey innately have an
understanding of, Hey, I need totalk to people to understand
(07:21):
what it is that I need to build,and then I need to build that
thing.
And so that straight line thatcutting out of all of these
other distractions, the businesscard, as you mentioned,
oftentimes leads those folks toquick success.
Eric Dickmann (07:34):
My experience has been working with a lot of
companies is that founders oftenthink that their product or
service is really unique.
It's really something completelydifferent in the market.
And I tend to look at it as aniteration.
It's something that may beslightly better than something
else out there, it may be aslight improvement, has an
(07:55):
additional set of features,maybe targets the market a
little bit differently, butrarely do I come across
companies who truly havesomething revolutionary, doesn't
exist in the marketplace today.
Do you see that a lot both interms of the products that
they're bringing and the mindsetthat they have, this mindset,
they've got something that'struly unique and doesn't exist?
Nick Rimsa (08:15):
An attitude that I see a lot is when founders are
worried that someone might copytheir idea because it's new or
novel or different.
And to your point, you know,oftentimes the feedback that I
give is that nobody copies a badidea.
If you have a good idea, andyou're able to find customers,
you're able to establish amarket.
(08:36):
Ultimately there will be othermarket participants.
And if you're someone who has anidea that notices, wow, there
already is a market for it.
That's not a reason to quit.
I think that oftentimes that's areason to proceed because that
business or that set ofbusinesses has already evaluated
demand.
They've done the hard work foryou already.
(08:56):
And so I think that to yourpoint, ideas are oftentimes one
notch different than before, orone slightly different value
prop than before.
And I think that regardless ofthe idea, if you're a founder
who is able to establish whoyour customer is, understand
what the core value prop is,you're gonna be able to deliver
(09:20):
upon some success.
Eric Dickmann (09:23):
I'm a big Apple fan, have been so for years, and
there's sort of a saying in theApple community, they call it
being sherlocked.
Early in Mac OS 10, there was aproduct, Apple basically copied
the product, integrated it intothe operating system, and it was
called Sherlock when they didit.
But the point of it is, is thatit was something that was a
(09:44):
logical add-on to the technologythat they already had.
And yes, some independentdeveloper came up with it first,
but it was something that youcould logically see being added
to the core of what they offer.
And oftentimes I see businessesgoing to market with the
product, and this is certainlytrue in the app world, where you
can see that functionality orthat thing being copied, because
(10:05):
really it's simply a feature,it's not sort of a standalone
independent thing.
Do you see that often as well?
Nick Rimsa (10:12):
I do, yes.
I think oftentimes the founderswho have the most success are
the ones who have a deepunderstanding about their
customer and their market.
And it's sometimes because theyactually come from that realm
and they have an understandingabout.
Hey, what's the differencebetween a core value prop and
what's the difference between anice to have feature.
And I think oftentimes whattends to uncover that is talking
(10:36):
to potential customers aboutwhat it is that they're hoping
to bring to market and reallyfocusing on real behavior rather
than, Hey, is this somethingthat you might be interested in
having?
One of the first key readingsthat, I ask founders to, to
complete is the mom test, whichis a book about how to talk to
customers and so much of thatbook is focused on real
(10:58):
behavior, understanding- Hey,what are folks actually doing?
What are folks actually goingabout in their regular day to
day?
And so often those conversationsare what ultimately uncover and
untangle, Hey, what's actuallyvaluable from what's something
that's nice to have or what'ssomething that can be just a
feature?
You know, because thatfoundational piece is, if it's
(11:20):
something that folks have awillingness to pay for potential
customers have a willingness topay for, then that founder
established and found somethingthat is truly valuable and not
just nice.
Eric Dickmann (11:30):
Yeah.
I often think, especially in thetechnology world, I've dealt
with a lot of technologycompanies in my day.
And you know, you take a look atsomething as ubiquitous as like
Microsoft Office and all thecapability that all of those
programs bring to a user.
And yes, there's an incrediblybig company behind it, but it's
an incredibly powerful suite ofproducts and it sells for a
premium price.
(11:51):
And sometimes then I see alittle app come along that does
one very specific thing, andit's priced almost at the same
level that this huge suite oftechnology products is priced
at.
And I think to myself, thisseems to be a mismatch.
You're asking for something fargreater than the utility or the
value that I as a user think itbrings and rarely would I ever
(12:11):
purchase something like that,unless it truly does something
unique that nobody else does inthe marketplace.
And to me, this gets to thewhole idea of the economics,
whether a product is viable.
And do you see, oftentimes whenfounders start thinking about
pricing their products, thatthey're overly ambitious in
terms of how much they thinkthey can sell that product for?
Nick Rimsa (12:31):
I tend to find the opposite.
Eric Dickmann (12:33):
Really?
They undervalue
Nick Rimsa (12:34):
I tend to find that a lot of founders undervalue
because they are seeing whatyou're describing.
They're seeing large companiespricing things lower than what
they might be able to receivefrom their customers.
And like these are first timefounders traditionally, like
(12:54):
they don't have pricing power,they don't have the ability to
you know, scale up rapidly.
And I think oftentimes whatconversations reveal is, Hey,
actually my customers have ahigher willingness to pay than I
expected because they'reascribing a different value than
what I expected, right?
They are saying- Hey, this toolhelps me to save 20 hours a week
(13:17):
and here's my hourly rate.
So now this isn't just a$10 amonth SaaS product, this is
something that's why I leavevaluable.
And I think one really helpfultidbit that the most successful
founders, especially withinsoftware land that I'm working
with tend to do is they have areally good understanding about-
(13:39):
Hey, what does my customer havea willingness to pay?
And what does customer numbertwo, have a willingness to pay?
I think oftentimes, um,especially as founders are
getting going, it's totally okayto charge different prices to
different customers.
And ultimately that of coursesets the market, but getting
started with customers 1, 2, 3,4, 5, maybe even as, as high as
10 or 20 customers, it's okay tocharge different prices.
(14:02):
And oftentimes that's then whatreveals, Hey, my customers
actually have a much higherwillingness to pay than I
initially anticipated.
And wow.
I've got something here that hasnot only only is super valuable,
but also has some great marginsand we're gonna be able to scale
so much faster because we'recharging so much more.
Eric Dickmann (14:22):
Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to
the podcast.
But first, are you ready togrow, scale, and take your
marketing to the next level?
If so, The Five Echelon Group'sVirtual CMO consulting service
may be a great fit for you.
We can help build a strategicmarketing plan for your business
and manage its execution,step-by-step.
(14:43):
We'll focus on areas like how toattract more leads.
How to create compellingmessaging that resonates with
your ideal customers.
How to strategically package andposition your products and
services.
How to increase lead conversion,improve your margins, and scale
your business.
To find out more about ourconsulting offerings and
schedule a consultation, go tofiveechelon.com and click on
(15:06):
Services.
Now back to the podcast.
I'm interested too, in thiswhole concept that you have of a
Fractional Co-founder, oftenwith incubators, you hear things
phrase more as mentoring, right?
Mentoring relationships with theco-founders, helping them get
started.
So how do you sort of move fromthat into a Fractional
(15:26):
Co-founder where I assume you'rehaving some sort of ownership
interest in the company.
How does that work and how dothose engagements get started?
How do you have thatconversation?
Nick Rimsa (15:36):
Well, the short answer is it depends.
But traditionally, it starts allwith establishing a trusting
relationship and establishing along-term relationship with the
founders who I'm working with,regardless if I'm going to
ultimately be playing a largerrole or not.
Because again, these are folkswho are getting started normally
for the first time, there are somany pitfalls that they don't
(15:59):
quite yet understand, or theyhaven't yet experienced.
And they're putting a whole heckof a lot of trust into the work
that I'm doing.
And so, to me, it's reallyimportant to first establish a,
a really high level of trustwith whoever it is that I'm
working with.
And generally, I'm notnecessarily coming on as an
operator for an extended periodof time, right?
(16:20):
That founder first needs toestablish who's my customer?
What's the value that I'mdelivering?
And then what's the product orservice that I'm bringing to
market?
And can I sustain this for acertain level of time?
Can I sell this duct tapesolution?
So oftentimes founders, evenwith good ideas come to market
and they are actually able tosell the product.
(16:41):
And so at that point it's like,okay, well sure, I definitely
would be valuable as a sales andmarketing helper, but if they're
not able to move the productthemselves, well, then they're
not gonna be able to get thefeedback that helps them to
improve the product, that helpsthem to improve messaging and so
on and so forth.
So generally it's once theyreach a certain threshold in
(17:01):
which they're working, for lackof a better term, they're
working like a dog, and they areunable to sort of pass through
that next precipice of growth,whether that's going from$5,000
a month of revenue to 10 or 10to 20, but generally that
conversation just starts, Itstarts generally pretty
(17:23):
organically.
Like, Hey, I'm kind of gettingto the end of my ability to get
stuff done in a week.
And I see that there's demandthat I'm not able to necessarily
get to myself, but if I had moretime or if I had some help, I
would be able to get to it.
And so it's less of what is thisfounder going to be able to do
with me, and it's more, what am,what am I actually going to be
(17:45):
able to do in order to unlockthis founder?
And so.
It, it comes up organically.
It's a conversation that takesplace, not in one sitting, but
over the course, generally ofseveral months and ultimately
sort of figuring out, Hey, wheremight I actually be valuable
here?
Is it me loaning a small amountof money?
(18:06):
Helping you to get some grantfunding in order to attach a
contractor or set ofcontractors, or do you actually
need an operator in which, youknow, I might be able to step in
and provide five or 10 hours aweek and actually get this thing
really going.
So the short answer is itdepends.
It's a really long conversationthat stretches over an extended
(18:28):
period of time.
And I think what's mostimportant there too is to
establish, Hey, what is thefounder going to be really good
at?
And where might I be able toactually provide additional
value?
Eric Dickmann (18:40):
I'm glad we are having this conversation because
it really isn't one we've duginto on this program before, but
I think a lot of people look atoutside help and say, I, I just
can't afford it.
And I think if you're looking atneeding outside help and having
that conversation aboutaffordability, you have to be
creative.
There are a lot of differentways to engage outside help,
(19:00):
right?
Sure, there's hourly rates wherepeople can come in and provide
services for an hourly rate,there's flat rate engagements
where they may have a retainerand give you so many hours a
month of service.
But then there are also thingslike equity arrangements where
somebody can come in and say,well, I'm not gonna charge you
upfront, but I'd like a littlebit of share of the business to
help you get to that point ofgrowth.
(19:21):
There's a lot of creativity outthere, especially for people
doing this kinds of fractionalwork.
And I encourage people if theyneed the help to have those
kinds of conversations andexplore ways to work together.
Wouldn't you agree?
Nick Rimsa (19:34):
Absolutely.
And I think to your point, sooftentimes early stage founders
are stuck on, oh man, I gotta goraise a round of money and
raising money, especially fromVC land.
It's not the only direction thatallows you to get to a level of
sustainability andprofitability.
Oftentimes there is arequirement to get creative,
whether that be with splittingup time, amongst different
(19:57):
contractors, whether that meansadding a teammate or two and
giving up some equity or addingsomeone fractionally and giving
up some equity, I think youknow, famously a hundred percent
of zero is zero.
And so if you're unable to growthe business to a certain stage
on your own, that's not afunction of defeat, you're not a
bad founder because you're notable to do that.
There's so much that needs toget accomplished as a one person
(20:20):
team.
So if you're able to spread out,not only that work, but also
that risk amongst more people,then you're probably better off
for the long term and it'scertainly viable to have
conversations and explore in anumber of different ways.
One point that I didn't mentionin the previous response is that
(20:40):
oftentimes, like whenever I'mworking with someone for the
first time and I'm establishing,Hey, is this person going to be
a good contractor, a goodteammate, long term?
I'm giving out short termprojects to see, to test, to
experiment, to see- Hey, is thisperson actually gonna be good?
Do we work together well?
Do they establish what needs toget done and do they do it on
time?
Do they communicate well?
(21:01):
And I oftentimes encouragefounders who are considering
some sort of fractionalagreement or adding a teammate
to do the exact same thing tosay, Hey, this is a problem that
I'm facing, I need you to gofigure this out because
oftentimes in a early stagebusiness, there aren't a whole
heck of a lot of constraints orguard rails, there just is a
problem that needs to be solved.
(21:22):
And so oftentimes what I'm doingis encouraging just that like,
Hey, establish a short termproject for someone to be able
to figure out without a wholeheck of a lot of constraints,
and are they able to do it?
Are they able to achieve what itis that you want?
And did you work together well?
And I'm doing that with firsttime founders who are interested
in potentially working togetherand say, Hey, is this actually
(21:45):
gonna work out?
Because it's important not onlyjust for them, but for me as
well.
Eric Dickmann (21:49):
It's like you know, don't skip ahead from the
first date to getting married,right?
You don't have to look atsomething and say, just based on
this little bit of information,I'm gonna make a lifelong
decision.
Yeah, those kind of earlyprojects where you can start to
build that trust, see how youwork together, there's a lot of
collaboration and trust that hasto happen in any kind of working
relationship if you want it tobe successful.
(22:11):
And so, yeah, I completelyagree.
It's great to have those smallerprojects up front so that you
can test things out and buildthat trust together.
I'm curious, too as you workwith these founders, what do you
see as the role of marketing?
How do you advise them when itcomes to marketing?
Because I know there's atemptation for many people to
either do it too soon or not doit soon enough, right?
(22:33):
And they wait too long beforethey apply the gas pedal if you
will to the marketing engine,how do you look at marketing
when you have those discussionswith these founders?
Nick Rimsa (22:42):
I think it all starts with those same couple of
questions.
Who's the customer who you'reserving and what is the value
that you're providing?
Oftentimes when I'm working withfolks early on, we're focused
first on sales, we're focusedfirst on one to one.
Hey, are you actually able to goout and find these people, talk
to them, learn from them, sellto them.
And not only until thesefounders have a deep, deep
(23:05):
understanding about who theircustomer is and one, the value
is that they are providing, canthey then move to marketing.
I think oftentimes to yourpoint, right, it's really,
really easy to skip aheadbecause it's fun, it seems
productive, it seems like you'regetting so, so much done.
If you're able to spin up asocial media account and start
posting, or you're able to hoponto a podcast and start talking
(23:27):
about what it is that you'reselling, but unless you have a
really clear understanding aboutwho your customer is and what
you're ultimately helping themto achieve, you might be running
in circles.
And so oftentimes, we aren'teven establishing any sort of
marketing schedule, any sort ofmarketing content, any cohesive
plan, really, until there's aclear understanding of, Hey,
(23:49):
what's this approach sales wise?
What's the approach one to one?
Are we able to do thiseffectively?
Okay, we are.
Now we can take the lessons thatwe've learned, the messaging,
the people who we should be incontact with, and we can create
valuable content that helps themon a marketing scale.
Eric Dickmann (24:05):
Yeah, because there's no doubt about it,
marketing is an expense, right?
But done correctly, it can be anengine for growth.
But that engine for growth onlyworks when there's revenue,
right?
You have to have sales.
And so if your marketing isn'tproducing sales, it can be
problematic because you can burnthrough money very quickly.
My experience has been that manyyoung companies they're so
(24:25):
excited about brand awareness,right?
They want to get their name outinto the world, they want to get
that recognition, but they don'tnecessarily have a plan to turn
that recognition into sales.
Nick Rimsa (24:35):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's so true.
And it's frustrating to seebecause it's like- Hey, you've
got something really good here.
If you actually slowed down andtook your time, you'd be able to
go faster later.
So it's a conversation that Ihave quite often.
It's like- Hey, first let'sestablish what this offering is.
Let's establish if you're ableto move this product one to one.
(24:57):
And then at that point, thatcost becomes an investment
because folks have a clearunderstanding about who it is
that I'm targeting, what Ishould be targeting them, and
how am I actually being helpfulor valuable in the content that
I'm producing marketing wise andhow can I get in front of people
at the right time so that theycan then make a decision and
ultimately become a customerthrough market?
Eric Dickmann (25:17):
Are there some resources that you found
particularly helpful as you haveconversations with startup
founders and young companies,you know, there are so many
great books and podcasts andthings like that out there.
Where do you go to get educatedor to find additional resources
for your own benefit?
Nick Rimsa (25:35):
I rely a lot on Twitter.
Eric Dickmann (25:37):
Yeah.
Nick Rimsa (25:38):
I've been very lucky to, for a long time, just sit
there and learn and not reallycontribute much of anything, and
have found some really amazingmarketers, a couple that come to
mind right off the bat, AmandaNatividad and Harry Dry.
Both of them focus a lot oncopy.
To me.
(25:59):
copy is design.
I think copy is wildly, wildlyhelpful.
I think whenever I'm workingwith folks on anything digital,
that's step one of wherever westart, it's like- Hey, let's
make sure we think about copy asdesign and let's start there.
And so recently have relied alot on how do I improve my copy?
(26:19):
How do I actually speak tocustomers better using their own
language.
And that's really becomefoundational to a lot of the
work that I'm doing.
Couple of the other people whoI've been really lucky to follow
and learn from and more recentlywork with, Annie Batcher is one,
(26:40):
Grace Baldwin is another.
They lead a very smallcopywriting and case study
agency, they do just some reallytremendous work and have been
really lucky to rely upon theirlearning.
So I think that if you'resomeone who is interested in
learning more about sales andmarketing, I use Twitter a lot.
I found find the accounts thatI'm able to actually learn from,
(27:04):
to benefit from.
And follow them for as long asthey provide value.
And for some of these people whoI just mentioned, they've been
providing value for as long asI've had an account and continue
to learn from.
So have been very, very lucky toget to learn from some of these
people from afar.
And then more recently have hadthe chance to work closely with
them.
Eric Dickmann (27:23):
You're absolutely right.
Podcasts, Twitter, YouTube,there are so many people who are
willing to share theirknowledge, the resources that we
have at our disposal are, arejust incredible.
And I'm curious for yourself atTortoise Labs, you know, what do
you view as your ideal customer?
If somebody's listening to thistoday and say, boy, I could
really use that kind of help,I'd never really thought about
(27:45):
having a Fractional Co-founderbefore, what would you say would
be your ideal customer?
Nick Rimsa (27:50):
Well, I would say there's two.
The first is someone who has anidea they're not sure quite
where to get started, they'vebeen struggling with the
resources that they have orthey're overwhelmed by
information, and they'd like tobring something to market.
Ideally they come from some sortof industry or market in which
they have a deep understandingabout whatever it is that they
(28:11):
want to bring to market.
But if not, that's totally okay,too.
So I would say that's personnumber one.
And then thing number two isactually an organization.
It's a nonprofit or a collegethat has an audience that's
entrepreneurial nature and wantsto help them at a slightly
larger scale.
So think of economic based, notnon-profits who are interested
(28:34):
in growing the number of smallbusinesses in their state are
interested in growing themlocally, those might be good
folks for me to work with tohelp establish what that
programming might be so thatthey can access more founders at
a local or state level, and helpgrow their ideas into
sustainable and profitablebusiness.
Eric Dickmann (28:55):
That's good.
That's succinct.
I like that.
If somebody's listening to thatand that's them, how is the best
way that they can reach youeither through LinkedIn,
Twitter, your website, givepeople a chance to find you on
the web.
Nick Rimsa (29:09):
Sure.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So if you head totortoiselabs.com, there's a
contact form there.
You can find me there.
I live on my machine, so I'measy to get ahold of.
You can follow me on Twitter atNick Rimsa, R I M S A, or on
LinkedIn with the same name,Nick Rimsa.
So, thank you for letting meplug my things.
Eric Dickmann (29:31):
No, absolutely.
As I said, you know, when wewere first introduced, I really
was fascinated by this conceptof a Fractional Co-founder and
you've done a great job ofexplaining the benefits of it
today.
So I really hope that theaudience has found value in it
as well.
And I will certainly make surethat everything that you
mentioned there is linked up inthe show notes so that people
can find you and reach out ifthey're the appropriate kind of
(29:52):
customer for you.
Nick, I really appreciate yourtime today, I've really enjoyed
our conversation.
Nick Rimsa (29:57):
Me too, Eric.
Eric Dickmann (30:01):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of
The Virtual CMO podcast.
For more episodes, go tofiveechelon.com/podcast to
subscribe through your podcastplayer of choice.
And if you'd like to developconsistent lead flow and a
highly effective marketingstrategy, visit fiveechelon.com
to learn more about our VirtualCMO consulting services.
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