May 11, 2025 • 55 mins
Paul's examination of homosexuality in Romans 1 reveals critical truths about sin, grace, and our relationship with God that challenge both extremes in today's church debate. We expose the error in teaching that Christians can be "out of fellowship" with God based on their behavior while maintaining that homosexuality is clearly described as sinful in Scripture and it's effects are damaging even for the Christian.
• Romans 1 shows God "giving up" unbelievers to their sinful desires as judgment for rejecting Him
• This passage specifically addresses non-regenerate people, not Christians struggling with sin
• The "due penalty" was the consequence of rejecting God, not homosexuality itself
• Christians cannot be "out of fellowship" with God based on sin—Christ's blood ensures permanent fellowship
• Sin does damage our relationship with God by causing us to turn away from His guidance
• Christians are called to "walk by the Spirit" which requires intentional effort, not automatic behavior
• Sin brings suffering through natural consequences, not through God rejecting believers
• Some sins like sexual immorality can be more damaging and consuming than others
• We honor God by seeking His guidance rather than indulging our fleshly desires
• The Father always waits with open arms like in the prodigal son story—He never turns away from us
Join us next week as we continue our study through Romans, examining more challenging passages and discovering how they reveal God's radical grace.
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Announcement (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Tune in to the Waking Up toGrace podcast on every major
platform.
You can also listen to ourepisodes and read our full
transcripts atwakinguptogracecom.
And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:22):
Welcome back to the podcast everyone.
In our last study I introducedthe concept of Welcome back to
the podcast everyone.
In our last study I introducedthe concept of the gospel being
written in the stars.
I'll likely dive into thatagain more later in Romans when
Paul references the subjectagain in chapter 10.
In case you didn't see it, Idid update that episode with
(00:42):
more information a few daysafter publishing it.
There's now about 15 minutesmore added to the episode, if
you want to check that out.
Today we're going to be lookingat what Paul writes about
homosexuality.
Today this has become quite ahot topic in the church and
sadly I see error on both sidesof the argument.
I see one side trampling thegospel and the other side
watering it down and we'resupposed to pick a side.
(01:03):
The church doesn't look anybetter than our government in
this way.
It's a total circus.
The history of theinstitutional church is very
troubling in this way and todayisn't really much better.
In the past it would be commonto be killed for something
deemed as heresy.
The same would often happen forsomeone proclaiming the truth.
It just depended on who was incharge and what they believed.
(01:24):
Can you imagine what Americawould look like.
If the church has handledthings the way they have in the
past, I don't know who would bekilling who right now.
Why is the institutional churchso caught up in error all
throughout history?
I think it's because religionputs people in spiritual bondage
and creates bitterness.
Today, in looking at the nextpassages in our Roman study, I'm
(01:46):
going to challenge you to findthe truth about homosexuality
and the error in the argumentsof most church establishments
today.
We finished our last study withPaul saying For his invisible
attributes, namely his eternalpower and divine nature, have
been clearly perceived eversince the creation of the world
and the things that have beenmade.
(02:06):
So they are.
We discussed how Yahweh isclearly revealed as gospel to
mankind, and so they are,without excuse.
Based on our last study, Ithink that the they is
representing mankind in general,not just a specific group of
people such as national Israel.
Going into the next passages ofour study, in verse 21, paul
(02:28):
writes For although they knewGod, they did not honor him as
God or give thanks to him, butthey became futile in their
thinking and their foolishhearts were darkened.
We go over the storyline fromGenesis to Christ in episode 42
and 43, if you want to look atthose later.
But the question is, could thethey here still be representing
(02:51):
a mankind who is rejectingYahweh?
Who's he referring to as they?
I believe he's just talkingabout mankind in general here.
When we look at the context, Idon't think anything has shifted
from our last study, where wedetermined that he's talking
about all of mankind sincecreation, since the fall, all
the way up to the gospel.
(03:11):
What does it seem that Yahwehwas looking for in mankind,
based on this passage?
It says for although they knewGod, they did not honor him as
God or give thanks to him, butthey became futile in their
thinking and their foolishhearts were darkened.
So I would say he's looking forhonor.
He's looking to be honored asGod, which is the God of all
(03:33):
gods, king of kings, lord oflords, and he likes when we give
thanks to him.
What would be the opposite?
Rejecting him and beingunthankful.
So what was the result ofmankind not honoring the Lord or
being thankful to him?
All their foolish hearts weredarkened, their thinking became
futile, it was worthless, Alltheir thoughts were worthless,
(03:55):
darkened hearts.
Has every single person knownGod in the way that they're
describing here?
Every single person?
Maybe, not every single person.
I think, based on the context,you know that he's pretty much
summarizing that humanity hasknown god, he's made himself
well known to humanity.
(04:16):
But, as we read earlier andwe'll get into that, people
suppress the truth.
So if mankind's suppressing thetruth, some men may not
recognize it because it's beingsuppressed.
So mankind is ruining mankindbasically.
But in general, does mankindknow God in this way?
And I don't see this to beclear as an intimate sense.
(04:38):
It's kind of like he's right infront of your face.
You know about him is what I'mseeing here.
Clearly, in the context he'snot talking about people loving
God, because in some areas ofscripture, like when God knows
you and foreknows you, there's avery intimate meaning to that
word, but here we just see acommon knowledge.
So in general, does mankindknow about God?
(05:00):
I think, like in today's age,yeah, I mean just about
everybody knows about Christ,yeshua and they would say Jesus.
Obviously People know about him, people know about God.
Gospel's all over the place butnobody really cares because
it's being suppressed and peoplemake light of it.
Right, is it easy to applythese passages to Israel?
(05:21):
Because they stand out as apeople who knew God.
Right.
But then we got to think, as wewere looking at earlier, was
Yahweh dealing with mankindbefore Israel?
And we determined that wefigured he was talking just in
general to mankind, but just tokind of prove the point
altogether, just knowing aboutGod.
People were not in the darkabout God.
(05:43):
Adam and Eve walked amongYahweh and Eden, and then from
them comes Noah and Enoch whoalso walked with the Lord.
Those guys were prophets intheir time.
You think they just kept theirmouths shut and kept it to
themselves.
No, abraham had a discussionwith Yahweh directly.
That was all before Israel.
(06:05):
Cain and Abel were makingofferings to the Lord and seemed
to know what pleased him andwhat didn't.
You had Abel offering asacrifice that was pleasing and
Cain not pleasing.
And it seems clear to me when Ilook at that story that Cain
knew he was offering a garbageoffering.
I don't think it was anaccident.
Then, before the flood, we havethis strange happening where
(06:27):
clean and unclean animals arebeing brought onto the ark.
Have you ever thought aboutthat?
You sit there and you readabout Noah's ark and it says to
bring so many clean and uncleananimals?
He says to Noah and you're justlike well, how did they know
that?
Because God was dealing withthem.
God was dealing with his peopleBefore the law, during the law
and after the law.
Then you also have Abrahamgiving this tithe to Melchizedek
(06:49):
and if you study that a littlebit, he was a Christ type.
There's something very specialabout that situation going on
there Before the law.
But the funny thing is that thetithe was mentioned before the
law.
A lot of people use that to saythe tithe is still honorable
today, which makes no sense,because we have a whole new
covenant here and it was apartfrom the law and it's all free,
(07:13):
it's based on grace.
Tithes never once mentioned tobe honored in the New Testament,
but that's a whole other story.
He was dealing with his people.
They were making sacrifices.
A tithe was known about somehow.
It wasn't money, it was spoilsfrom a war, but it's just
fascinating thinking about howGod was dealing with his people,
isn't it?
So can we conclude just on thesefacts that God was dealing with
(07:36):
mankind before Israel?
Absolutely.
I mean, I used to look at thesepassages and think it had to be
Israel, because that's who Godwas dealing with.
That's who God was revealinghimself through.
It seemed to make a lot ofsense.
In my opinion, based on thelast study that we did, the
context much more fits with himdealing with mankind in general
(07:56):
and directing those passages atthat.
I think that's very clear.
So is mankind basically good allalong, from the beginning,
after the fall, or the opposite?
No, they definitely aren'tbasically good, are they?
Apart from God, they'redownright evil.
But what made man pleasing tothe Lord all throughout history?
Faith, belief, honoring him,being thankful to him, right the
(08:21):
things that come from faith andbelief.
So let's look back on verse 18for some more context.
In Romans 1.18, we read For thewrath of God is revealed from
heaven against all ungodlinessand unrighteousness of men who,
by their unrighteousness,suppress the truth.
So although the Lord hasrevealed himself since the
beginning of creation, did thatstop mankind from suppressing
(08:43):
his truth with error and lies?
No, it sure didn't.
If rejecting the gospel, nothonoring Yahweh, not giving
thanks to Yahweh, suppresses thetruth, then is it possible that
many end up not knowing of theLord at all due to the sin of
others?
And I say yeah, absolutely.
It just confirms what we weretalking about before.
If the truth gets suppressed,some people might not ever hear
(09:07):
Does the Lord owe salvation tosinful man.
Does anyone have an excuse fortheir sin and for their unbelief
?
According to Paul, they'rewithout excuse.
When we go back to the fall ofmankind in Eden, we inherit
spiritual death from Adam andEve at birth.
Does this seem to give us anymore of an excuse, according to
Paul?
Sometimes I wonder, jokingly,is Paul trying to help out Adam
(09:31):
when we get to heaven?
Because it kind of seems like awhole lot of people are
thinking Adam did this, it'syour fault, adam, or maybe the
people that are perishingthey're going to say God, it was
Adam's fault.
I don't think that's going towork.
I think Paul makes that prettyclear that you don't have an
excuse.
You can't blame somebody elsefor your own unbelief and your
own sin.
(09:51):
So Paul continues Claiming tobe wise.
They became fools and exchangedthe glory of the immortal God
for images resembling mortal manand birds and animals and
reptiles.
Do we see this going onthroughout scripture before
national Israel?
You know, if we're looking atthis, as is the context about
Israel or mankind, did we seethis going on throughout
(10:12):
scripture before national Israel?
And we do.
And if we dig into historicalevidence, we find examples of
mankind worshiping lesser godswe learn about in episodes 42
and 43, lesser gods we learnedabout in episodes 42 and 43,
these lesser gods weren't merelymade up.
These images likely representedthe corrupt watchers that were
(10:34):
put in charge of the nations atBabel.
They were likely influenced toworship these images rather than
Yahweh.
We see examples of this inEgypt.
At the time of Exodus, egypthad frog gods.
There's historical evidence tosupport this, if you look it up.
What did Yahweh do to Egypt?
Through Moses, he gave them aton of frogs.
There were frogs coming outeverywhere.
It was a plague of frogs.
Was this random choice on thepart of our Lord or was this
(10:57):
Yahweh displaying hissovereignty and power over all
of the lesser gods and deities?
It was actually Yahwehdisplaying his sovereignty over
the lesser gods.
Throughout scripture, we seemankind worshiping the lesser
gods, worshiping the Nephilimand rejecting Yahweh.
Again in episodes 42 and 43, wetalked about those things.
The angels sent to man byYahweh would even declare things
(11:21):
like don't bow before me, I'monly a messenger.
But the rebellious watchers, orangels, did not honor God in
this way.
As we study in the beginning ofRomans, yahweh is the creator,
the triune God, the Father, theSon and the Holy Spirit are the
creator.
Our Lord was from the beginning.
The world, the divine council,mankind, the heavenly realms are
(11:44):
his creation.
Anything under Yahweh lookingto be worshipped in his place
was rebelling against him.
Nothing under Yahweh is to beheld above him by mankind.
But that doesn't stop us fromdoing it anyway, does it?
There was consequences.
Continuing.
Paul writes Therefore, god gavethem up, in the lusts of their
hearts, to impurity, to thedishonoring of their bodies
(12:07):
among themselves, because theyexchanged the truth about God
for a lie and worshipped andserved the creature rather than
the Creator, who is blessedforever.
Amen.
God.
Giving them up, according tosome, is a powerful way of
saying that God literally didthis to them.
God cast the spell of sin ontothese people, but that would
(12:28):
make God the direct author ofsin.
Do we really see God as theauthor of sin in this passage,
though?
If we look at the passage,where did the lusts originate?
It says God gave them up in thelusts of their hearts to
impurity.
He gave them up to their ownlusts.
So is this yet another exampleof the sad state of mankind
(12:48):
after the fall?
Absolutely it is.
It's this fallen man.
But what did we also readearlier about who owns the
sinful behavior.
Just to be sure, who is thesource of it?
According to Romans 1.18, weread For the wrath of God is
revealed from heaven against allungodliness and unrighteousness
of men who, by theirunrighteousness, suppress the
(13:11):
truth.
So whose unrighteousnesssuppress the truth?
Men?
It includes women too.
He's just talking about mankindin general.
But it's their unrighteousness,they own it.
They have no excuse.
They can't say God made me dothis.
And then how much ungodlinessand unrighteousness is god's
wrath on?
Just a little bit of it, maybeonce in a while, or all of it?
(13:35):
All of it, right?
What is the primary sin thatwe're dealing with here now?
This is something to reallythink about.
He's going to mention a lot ofsins in these passages coming,
but what is the primary sin sofar that we've been dealing with
?
It's unbelief.
And just to clarify context areany of these people referenced
(13:58):
considered in any way faithfulin Yahweh?
Is he talking about believersso far anywhere?
Do you see him talk aboutChristians or believers anywhere
in any of this so far?
No, no, he's talking aboutungodly, unfaithful,
gospel-rejecting, fallen men.
(14:19):
It's important to pay attentionto that.
Is there any reason at all tobelieve the people mentioned in
these passages are faithful orsaved.
Any reason at all?
No, these are unfaithful,non-regenerate people.
We're going to want to knowthat, coming up and see why.
In verse 26, we read For thisreason, god gave them up to
(14:40):
dishonorable passions, for theirwomen exchanged natural
relations for those that arecontrary to nature, and the men
likewise gave up naturalrelations.
Going back to verse 25, whatwas the reason God gave them up
(15:02):
to dishonorable passions?
It was because they exchangedthe truth about God for a lie
and worshipped and served thecreature rather than the creator
.
They rejected the truth.
They rejected the gospel, right?
It says he gave them up todishonorable passions.
Is this considered a judgment?
I mean giving them up.
(15:23):
That's an action word.
I mean he's giving them up,he's doing something right.
That's where some people saythat he put this sin on them as
a punishment.
I don't see that, though.
That would make God the authorof sin.
But is the giving up consideredto be a judgment?
Yeah, it is.
It's a judgment.
(15:44):
He's letting them suffer in sin, right?
Do we see the same type ofgiving up at other times in
scripture, though?
You know what other times didYahweh give people up to
something.
Well, at the fall of mankind,he took the spirit away from
Adam and Eve.
He never promised them thatthey would keep the spirit like
(16:04):
in the new covenant age.
They lost it, he took it away.
He never promised them thatthey would keep the spirit like
in the new covenant age.
They lost it, he took it away.
He told them not to eat fromthe tree.
That was the consequence.
Then the flood, seeing what wasgoing on between the Nephilim
and the watchers and the people,and it was crazy, total chaos.
I'm flooding you guys out,starting over.
Then at the Tower of Babel,they're building this ziggurat,
(16:26):
worshiping watchers, worshipingthe other gods, doing the
opposite of what God told themto to go around the earth and
inhabit the earth and spread out.
They all stayed in one placeand conspired against him.
So he spread them out.
Scattered nations scatteredtheir languages, said I'm done
with you, I'm giving you up tothese lesser gods, right.
(16:48):
And then we also see a judgmentoutside of Scripture.
That was prophesied inScripture the AD 70 destruction
of Jerusalem.
God was done with Israel.
National Israel was done.
They were paying a price.
Right.
So giving them up is a judgment.
It was a judgment of aspiritually dead, fallen mankind
(17:09):
rejecting the truth.
Now the next questions mightstrike a nerve for many, but I
believe we have to ask thisquestion in order to make sense
of what's written in ourscripture.
This one's not as tough.
We'll start with the easy one.
Is Yahweh the creator of allthings in heaven and on earth?
He's the creator.
We learned that in our paststudies.
Plain and clear he's thecreator of all things.
(17:30):
That's what we believe asChristians.
But here's the zinger Is Yahweheveryone's God?
Is he the God of all people?
I think it'd be easy to thinkthat because he's the creator,
he created everything, so he'severybody's god.
Right, but that's not what hesays.
We see a clear indicationdirectly from Yahweh through his
(17:52):
prophet Hosea.
This was a judgment against thepeople of Israel.
In Hosea 1 9 we read and theLord said call his name, not my
people, for you are not mypeople and I am not your god.
Was yahweh considered the godof israel?
Overall he was, but he justtold him that he wasn't.
Didn't he to national israel?
(18:14):
Yahweh, through his prophetjeremiah, declared in jeremiah
32, 38 and they shall be mypeople and I will be their god.
I will give them one heart andone way that they may fear me
forever for their own good.
We see the statement being madein other places as well.
So this was to Israel.
(18:44):
But were all of the people ofnational Israel God's holy
people?
Was this to every one of them?
Was this a covenant to nationalIsrael?
No, it wasn't.
It was a covenant to trueIsrael.
I'm touching on this before weget there.
It's a bit of a teaser.
We're going to dive more intothat topic in Romans 11 when we
get there, but I also talk aboutit in episode number six from a
(19:08):
couple years ago about the trueIsrael.
It's going to be fun too to goback over that in chapter 11, do
an updated episode on that.
But then getting back to thetopic of handing over and sin,
if the sin was produced bymankind, did Yahweh directly
cause it?
I asked this question quite afew times because I really want
(19:29):
to drive this home.
No, yahweh did not make anybodydo this.
Mankind sins pretty well ontheir own, without any help.
And did mankind have an excuseaccording to verse 20?
And no, if we go back in ourBible to verse 20, mankind is
without excuse according to Paul.
(19:49):
But let's take a closer look atthe details of the sin being
described in these verses, weread.
For this reason, god gave themup to dishonorable passions For
their women, exchanged naturalrelations for those that are
contrary to nature.
And the men likewise gave upnatural relations with women and
were consumed with passion forone another.
Men committing what type ofrelations are considered
(20:11):
contrary to nature here?
Men with men and women withwomen?
Anything that God didn't createto be that way?
Men and women were created tobe together sexually.
Not men and men, not women withwomen.
Anything that God didn't createto be that way.
Men and women were created tobe together sexually.
Not men and men, not women andwomen.
Paul's saying that's unnatural.
(20:32):
Are relations contrary tonature honorable according to
Paul in our passage?
No, he's saying they're nothonorable.
That's not honorable.
Men being with men and womenwith women it's unnatural and
it's not honorable according toPaul.
Now, if the judgment was Yahwehwithdrawing his mighty hand and
basically saying I'm not dealingwith you, I'm done with you,
(20:55):
you go enjoy your sin andsuffering, essentially letting
them behave that way, thenwhat's the due penalty?
What is that action saying?
When God says I'm done with you, that's a separation.
You don't get to have thispiece of my glory.
You want to reject me?
You get to suffer.
You think that's what you want?
(21:17):
Then have it Now.
Many hold that the due penaltyfor the error is referring
directly to homosexuality andits aids.
It's something that happenswithin you.
From that, some hold that thesin itself was a judgment to the
people.
But what was the error thatinitiated this judgment in the
first place?
By Yahweh, we read in verse 25,because they exchanged the
(21:41):
truth of God for a lie andworship and serve the creature
rather than the creator, who isblessed forever.
For this reason, god gave themup to dishonorable passions.
For that reason, so washomosexuality itself the cause
of the judgment, or was itrejecting the gospel?
It was rejecting the gospel,wasn't it?
(22:05):
They rejected the gospel, soGod let them go to sin, and that
was one of the sins they chose.
Let's read on for some moredetails.
In verse 28, we read and sincethey did not see fit to
acknowledge God, god gave themup to a debased mind to do what
ought not to be done.
Here we see again the reasoningfor the judgment, as well as the
(22:27):
penalty for their error.
What was the error and what wasthe judgment?
The error was rejecting God,rejecting the gospel, rejecting
his truth.
What was the penalty?
Separation from God.
If God gave him up to this sin.
Is this sin pleasing to theLord in any way?
(22:48):
Was that something that washonorable or pleasing to him if
he made it a penalty?
No, not at all.
Now here's a good question.
Does Paul call homosexualsmentally ill?
Is he implying at all thatthey're mentally ill, or is he
just saying they're deeplysinful?
He's calling it a sin, isn't he?
(23:16):
Does giving up naturalrelations and being consumed
with passion for one anothersound like a good thing?
No, he's not making this out tobe a good thing at all.
Does committing shameless actsdescribe taking pride in
homosexual behavior?
Yeah, I would say so.
They're shameless about it.
They're taking pride in it.
They have no problem with itwhatsoever.
There is definitely aconnotation that is directly
(23:38):
applying to that, isn't there?
Paul is saying that that's anon-regenerate, deeply sinful,
fallen man behavior.
Would that make homosexuality agodless behavior?
Yeah, it does.
That's what Paul's telling usplain and clear.
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Here's another big question Werethese Christians committing
these acts?
Is he talking about Christianshere?
He's not, is not.
Is he?
We got to go back to ourcontext.
He's talking aboutnon-regenerate men, isn't he?
Yes, these are not christianhomosexuals, just to be clear.
And it does matter.
And it matters because god'ssaying I'm done with you.
(24:22):
Does he do that to christians?
Does he say I'm done with you?
Does he do that to christians?
Does he say I'm done with you?
I've not seen in scripture.
But does everyone who rejectsyahweh then become a homosexual
because he's saying you rejectme, I'm gonna hand you over to
this stuff?
In my opinion, the answer tothat is pretty simple, though.
No, obviously we don't lookaround and everybody rejects god
(24:43):
as a homosexual, but it's a sinthat people engage in.
It's one of the sins that helists, and later on we'll read
about more of them.
This is just the first one hebrings up.
We'll talk about that too.
Why is it the first one?
The next question is do we seeChristians committing acts like
these throughout Scripture?
Do we see actual Christianscommitting these acts when we
(25:04):
read Scripture?
And the answer is yeah.
In 1 Corinthians, chapter 5, weread of sexual immorality of a
really bad kind.
Did Paul pat the man on theback who was indulging in sexual
immorality in Corinth andcausing others to take pride in
him.
Did Paul say good job, buddy.
Hey, you know I got no problemwith that.
(25:25):
I don't want to get in the wayof how you worship God.
It's not up to me how you honoryour Lord.
You know I don't want to getbetween you and the Lord's
relationship.
No, he didn't say that at all.
But did he say he was out offellowship with God or not right
with God in any way?
And he didn.
But Paul did tell the church notto associate with this person
(25:49):
who was taking pride in thatbehavior.
It was causing a serious issuein the church.
He actually had them remove theperson from their group for a
time and if you think about thatfor a moment, in those days
that was more than just notbeing at church over the weekend
.
They lived among each other andthey supported each other.
He cast that guy out for a bit.
(26:10):
He didn't say to make thatperson a pastor or a deacon.
He wanted the issue to be dealtwith, and pretty severely
compared with other types of sin.
Pride and sexual immorality wasnot something that Paul took
lightly.
We see it clearly in scripture.
This is a simple fact that wehave to deal with Sin is sin.
(26:30):
It's not unclear what sin is.
If we study Scripture with ourspiritual eyes open, if we study
Scripture with pride, we missthe truth every time.
Consider this for a moment.
If you're saying homosexualityis not sin, are you not saying
God is a liar?
Are you not proclaimingunbelief in Yahweh by declaring
(26:52):
such a notion To a church beingdeceived into unbelief?
John wrote in his first epistleif we say we have no sin, we
deceive ourselves and the truthis not in us.
And then he goes on to say ifwe say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar and his word isnot in us.
And then he goes on to say ifwe say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar and his word isnot in us.
And that's 1 John 1, 8 and 10.
(27:13):
Can we apply these passages towhat we're reading about
homosexuality?
I just covered these passagesin episode number 51 recently.
But can we apply these passagesto what we're reading about
homosexuality?
I say we can in the sense thatyou have people that are denying
sin Absolutely.
(27:36):
What Paul is saying here abouthomosexuality is not true.
You're going to say I mean,come on, is that even a real
argument to have Christiansgoing back to the spiritual,
simple milk you know, the simple, spiritual milk of our faith,
understanding what sin is.
And we're going to argue aboutthat.
That doesn't make any sense.
If we're going to help eachother, we have to look at the
(27:58):
truth about sin and its damagingconsequences and effects.
Sin is going to make peoplesuffer.
Do we make ourselves out to beunbelievers by taking pride in
sin?
Do we make ourselves out to beunbelievers?
Yeah, we actually do.
You look like you're rejectingthe gospel.
The gospel of salvation is thatyou were a sinner and you
(28:22):
needed a savior.
Knowing you're a sinnerrequires knowing what sin is,
doesn't it?
So you're going back to thebeginning and basically saying,
oh, you know that's not sin.
Nope, that's not sin either.
Everything's fine.
I'm not saying that makes youan unbeliever.
Can we become unbelievers oncewe're regenerated?
(28:42):
If you were born again and youstart being silly and starting
to say things aren't sin, areyou unborn again because of that
?
No, you're still a christian.
If you were regenerated, youwere spiritually born.
You can't reverse that and wegot to deal with that as
christians.
There's people out there thatact really foolish, but they
(29:03):
might still be saved.
That's not for us to judge, butwe certainly don't have to hang
out with the people that aregoing around promoting
godlessness.
Do we, do we help otherChristians by proclaiming
godlessness?
Not at all.
Will we suffer when we use ourholy temples for sin of this
magnitude and take pride in that?
(29:23):
Yeah, we're going to suffer,we're going to suffer, and
that's the truth.
Then, right in between these twopassages, though, we read if we
confess our sins, he isfaithful and just to forgive us
our sins and to cleanse us fromall unrighteousness.
So how much unrighteousness iscleansed in us when we come to
(29:43):
Christ, when we admit our sin tohim at regeneration?
That's what he's talking abouthere.
When we say God, I'm a sinner,what happens?
He cleanses us from allunrighteousness, and then we
recognize that we're right withhim.
Now we see, okay, that's sin,that's bad, but I've been
(30:05):
cleansed of all that.
Now I can go on with my lifehonoring God.
It is the point of the gospelto set you free from that
bondage and put you into a placewhere you can honor the Lord.
So does that make us right withGod, being cleansed of all
unrighteousness?
It does, homosexual or not,when you come to Christ, you've
(30:26):
been cleansed.
If you believe the gospel,you've been cleansed.
If you believe the gospel,you've been cleansed.
You can't take that away.
I think it's extremely important, in light of the direction our
society is heading today, thatwe do not approach Christian
homosexuality as something thatit's not.
We have to address it for whatit is.
In 1 Corinthians 5, we seePaul's approach in regards to
(30:47):
dealing with pride.
Pride and sexual immorality isa serious issue in the church
and it needs to be dealt with.
But on the other side of things, I was deeply disturbed when
Melissa told me a story she hadheard about a Christian who was
struggling with homosexuality.
This guy was so troubled by hissin that he preferred severe
illness that would lead to deathover being out of fellowship
(31:09):
with Yahweh.
The man had AIDS and didn'twant the Lord to spare him
because he knew he would go backto his sin.
It was an addiction, a deep,terrible addiction beyond words.
According to his account, hewanted to die in fellowship with
God Because he was currentlynot able to commit the sin due
to AIDS.
So he was in fellowship in hismind, rather than surviving and
(31:34):
being out of fellowship andcontinuing in that sin.
You see what I'm saying.
He believed he was out offellowship with God.
He believed he was disconnected.
God had turned away from himwhen he stopped the sin due to
AIDS.
He now believes he's infellowship because he's not
committing the sin anymore andhe's afraid of committing again
when he gets better, because heknew he was going to.
(31:56):
He's believing he's in and outof fellowship based on his
behavior.
From the view of the gospel ofgrace, this man was a saint who
was struggling with sin,genuinely struggling with sin
and the church let him believethat the one person who could
actually help him had turnedaway from him.
He was even told that he didn'tlove God and that was the
(32:18):
reason for his behavior.
To that kind of theology wehave to ask how much love do we
need to stay in fellowship withGod?
How many sins does it take tobe out of fellowship and, most
importantly, what methods do wetake to get back in?
Are we going to ask forforgiveness?
That's religion.
(32:39):
That's all just religion.
They didn't even ask forforgiveness in the Old Covenant.
They had to make animalsacrifices and shed blood In
Hebrews.
In the new covenant he saysChrist shed his blood once and
for all.
If you want forgiveness, therehas to be bloodshed.
That's the way God works.
God's never worked on a basisof ask me for forgiveness.
(33:00):
That's never been the covenantthat's made up religion.
So can we out-sin grace?
Are we going to go beyond ourgrace with our sin and suddenly
we're going to be in a bad place?
Is there a sin limit that Godhas set for the Christian and we
got to stay within thoseconfines?
If we can be out of fellowshipbased on sin, how do you even
(33:24):
know you're in it right now?
How do you ever know you're init based on sin?
How do you even know you're init right now?
How do you ever know you're init?
Do you realize how holy God is?
Do you realize how awful andwretched sin is to our Lord?
You can't afford to be out offellowship.
That's why we're never toldthat in Scripture.
We need God.
How can we be good enough forsalvation but then we have God
angry with us?
(33:45):
Where do we see any of this inscripture?
We don't.
Being in and out of fellowshipwith God is something that is
made up due to a terriblemisinterpretation.
If we're going to rebuke sin,we have to do it within the
confines of infinite grace.
God's amazing full grace.
We have to deal with that.
(34:06):
People are saved.
God's amazing full grace.
We have to deal with that.
People are saved.
People are in fellowship withGod too.
It's important to understandthat our Romans passage there's
never a bridge burned.
God has never turned away fromyou, waiting for some kind of
behavior from you to make thatchange so that he'll turn his
face towards you again.
That's the age of grace.
That's why the new covenant isa new and better covenant.
(34:29):
If all that wasn't true, thenwhat did Christ even do?
What actually changed from theold covenant to the new covenant
?
Think about that.
It just makes no sense.
It's important to understandthat our Romans passage today
was not referring to Christianhomosexuals being handed over to
sin by God.
(34:50):
God isn't saying to Christianhomosexuals I'm done with you,
I'm handing you over to that sin.
It was not about Yahweh sayingI'm done with you to any
Christian.
Our Father does not deal withus this way.
As Christians, we have a newand better covenant the
purifying blood of Christ andthe life of his resurrection.
(35:10):
To this point, paul tells thechurch in Corinth Do you not
know that the unrighteous willnot inherit the kingdom of God.
Don't be deceived Neither thesexually immoral, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor men whopractice homosexuality, nor
thieves, nor the greedy, nordrunkards, nor revelers, nor
swindlers will inherit thekingdom of God.
Do you think that he starts withsexual immorality?
(35:33):
For a reason?
I definitely believe he did,because we'll notice in our next
study that Paul does the samething here in Romans.
He begins with sexualimmorality and then goes on to
(35:53):
other sin.
And he does it in other areastoo, and we'll talk about that
in the next passage.
There's definitely somethingthere.
We see it in Corinth.
He deals with that person muchmore severely.
He's not kicking people out oftheir group every time somebody
sins, just going wild.
No, that was a deep sinaccording to Paul, and it was
all to do with the pride and thelevel of the sin.
(36:14):
But Paul certainly comes downharder on sexual immorality.
We see that in his churches.
We see that in chapter 5 of thesame letter to the Corinthians.
So are some sins moredestructive than others?
Is the question.
Why is Paul coming down so hardon this one?
Are some sins more destructivethan others?
Yeah, do some sins cause moresuffering than others?
(36:38):
Absolutely.
Do some sins disrupt a churchmore than others.
Yeah, think about that.
Think of sexual immorality andthe disruption it causes, the
suffering it causes.
Our Lord fully accepts you allthe time, right now, anytime but
this doesn't mean he's proud ofyour sin, and you shouldn't be
(37:00):
either.
Taking pride in sin is callingGod a liar.
What does Paul say to theCorinthians who were struggling
with sexual immorality?
At the end of this passage inverse 11?
He says and such were some ofyou, but you were washed, you
were sanctified, you werejustified in the name of the
Lord Jesus and the Spirit of God.
Does this mean they stoppeddoing those things as Christians
(37:24):
?
If you read the letter rightback there again, in chapter 5,
they were having some issueswith that, weren't they?
So he's basically saying that'sall behind you now You've been
washed and sanctified.
Why is he saying that?
For the same reason we're goingback and forth the consequences
of sin, how much Yahweh hatessin, how destructive sin is.
(37:47):
But then you've got to go backto how clean you are from sin
and how perfect you are from theblood of Christ.
He's washed you so that you cankeep a clear mind and get it
together and pray to him forhelp, pray to him for guidance.
We may be free in grace, but weshould not be free of his
guidance.
If we set ourselves free fromhis guidance, we're going to
(38:10):
find ourselves right back inbondage to sin, aren't we?
So how can they be the ones whoenter the kingdom?
Is it because they stoppedsinning?
No, it's because they werewashed by their belief in Christ
.
So what takes Christians out ofjudgment and into justification
?
Because all these things thathe mentioned, he was just
(38:31):
talking about non-regenerate man.
He's saying that's a penalty,that's a judgment.
What takes us out of that?
And suddenly we're justified?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
When we tell Christians thatthey are out of fellowship, that
they don't love God, god hasturned his face away from you.
We water down grace.
(38:51):
That's just the truth.
Grace is bigger than your sinand you cannot out-sin grace.
Got to deal with that.
We're in perfect fellowshipwith God now, but does sin
hinder our relationship with God?
Let me repeat that once more.
We are in perfect fellowshipwith God as Christians.
(39:12):
But does sin hinder ourrelationship with God?
And I say yes.
And let me explain.
Let's start with the nextquestion.
Why might sin hinder ourrelationship with the Father.
What would make sin hinder ourrelationship with the Father?
What would make sin hinder ourrelationship with the Father?
Can you think of something?
(39:35):
If you were deep into sin, ifyou just fell into something bad
?
You fell into a rut and youwere just deep in what would be
the primary issue going onbetween you and the Father.
He just kind of disappears intothe background of your life,
doesn't he?
When you fall into sin, when youlose your focus, when you're
not following the Spirit'sguidance anymore, when you're
(39:55):
not listening and following thatlead, we rock our relationship.
Why?
Because God turned his faceaway from us.
No, because we turn our facesaway from his guidance, faces
away from his guidance.
We ignore and become ignorantto the leading of the Spirit of
God.
He tells us one thing, and itgoes in one ear and out the
(40:18):
other, and we don't care, wejust continue on our way.
We turn away from his guidanceand turn to our own desires.
Right, that's what's happeningTo the Galatians, paul writes.
For you were called to freedom.
Brothers Only, do not use yourfreedom as an opportunity for
the flesh, but through love,serve one another, for the whole
(40:39):
law is fulfilled in one wordyou shall love your neighbor as
yourself.
But if you bite and devour oneanother, watch out that you're
not consumed by one another.
But I say, walk by the Spirit.
What benefit are we going toreceive if we use our freedom
for sin?
None at all, right?
(41:00):
None at all.
If we're going to turn awayfrom God, we're going to receive
the same benefit as the peoplethat are in bondage to their sin
.
Right, the non-regenerate, whoare just in bondage to their sin
and indulging in it andsuffering.
We're going to suffer with them.
If we do those things, if youturn away from the guidance of
the Spirit, we're going to startbeing guided by the flesh.
(41:21):
We're going to start going awayfrom the Lord's guidance if we
stop following it, aren't we?
We're free in grace.
God has set us free from oursins.
But in Paul's analogy he tellsus we're either a slave to sin
or a slave to righteousness.
We're going to get to thatlater too.
(41:45):
We may be free from sin, butthe door is still open and we
can walk back in.
Just go right in there andsuffer with the rest of the
world.
The door is wide open.
You can go out anytime.
He set you free from that.
You're not in bondage to thatanymore.
But there's a reason that Paulsays that you are a slave to
righteousness now.
He's not telling you that youshould be free of God's guidance
.
He's saying that you're a slaveto righteousness now.
(42:06):
You've been bought at a price.
You're owned by the Lord sothat we should honor God with
our lives.
He paid our way out of prison.
Why would you want to go backinto that cell?
Why does Paul remind them thatthe law was fulfilled in love?
I think it's just remindingthem of Christ and what he did.
The law was fulfilled in Christand his love.
(42:26):
So what does Paul recommend tothe Christian?
He says walk by the Spirit andyou won't gratify the desires of
the flesh.
So is this like saying beguided by the love of God, be
guided by the Spirit of God, notsinful desires.
Yeah, that's exactly what he'ssaying Be led by truth and
(42:48):
spirit, not error and sin.
But will we just stop sinningaccording to this passage?
No, he says that you won'tgratify the desires of the flesh
.
The power of sin becomes veryweak when we know the truth and
when we live by the truth.
It doesn't have the same effectanymore when it's brought into
the light.
(43:11):
Galatians 5.17,.
For the desires of the fleshare against the spirit and the
desires of the spirit areagainst the flesh, for they are
opposed to each other to keepyou from doing the things you
want to do.
But if you are led by thespirit, you're not under law.
According to this passage, willsinful behavior bear spiritual
blessings?
No, it's going to be theopposite.
Are Christians led by theSpirit according to this passage
(43:33):
?
Yeah, he's saying you're notunder law if you're led by the
Spirit.
Christians aren't under law.
So he's saying you're led bythe Spirit, but does that mean
they always follow the Spirit?
Does being led by the Spirit,having the Spirit leading you,
mean that you're alwaysfollowing?
Would Paul instruct the churchto walk by the Spirit if it was
not possible to?
(43:54):
This is something that youreally got to realize here.
He's not saying this becauseit's automatic.
He's telling his church to walkby the Spirit because it's
something that they need tolearn and grow in.
They need to develop and maturein this truth.
In Galatians 5.25 we read If welive by the Spirit, let us also
(44:18):
walk by the Spirit.
We see Paul mentioning walkingby the Spirit again here in this
section of his writing inGalatians, does it seem like
Paul puts a strong emphasis onwalking by the Spirit?
Yeah, absolutely he does,doesn't he?
And do you think this is justautomatic?
Again, no, this is notautomatic.
Does Paul seem to describe twodifferent things and living by
(44:40):
the Spirit and walking by theSpirit.
Yeah, christians always live bythe Spirit.
The Spirit's living in us, butare we always following its lead
or are we being ignorant?
That's the Spirit.
The Spirit's living in us, butare we always following its lead
or are we being ignorant?
That's the question.
And Paul's saying walk by theSpirit.
What are the differences?
Living by the Spirit is living,breathing as a Christian.
(45:01):
Walking by the Spirit is beingguided by the Lord.
That's not automatic.
Paul is not telling you thatthe Lord wants you to just go
live your life how you want tolive it and he'll just be
hanging out with you like yourbuddy.
No, he's guiding.
If we take the guidance out ofChristianity and we free
Christianity from the guidanceof the Holy Spirit, what good
(45:23):
are we doing anybody?
Oh, I'm free man.
Hey, dude, let's go hang outand just be Christians.
That's ridiculous.
How do we honor Yahweh by notbeing guided by him by not
learning from him.
What is sin to him, what ishonorable to him?
(45:43):
And, as we've talked about inthe past, why wouldn't we focus
on things that are honorable tohim?
We see what's not.
There's plenty of honorablethings to focus on.
When we focus on pleasing theLord, you're just going to find
that the things that aren'tpleasing him aren't beneficial
anymore.
This isn't beneficial for me.
I'm done with that.
I got to pray for this.
(46:05):
I got to give this up.
God will help us.
He can do anything.
So what harm do you see inpromoting and taking pride in
what is clearly sin?
Well, there's a lot of harm.
We were just reading that thedue penalty for error, the error
of unbelief, is Yahweh.
Being done with them.
They're being filled with thelusts of their hearts, filled
(46:27):
with it.
Are those things still going tohappen to the Christian if they
turn away from Yahweh andreject his ways and stop
following his lead?
Sadly, yes.
The internal conflict that youhave that we were just reading
about, the spirit battling theflesh.
They're in opposition to eachother.
That's what's going on in theChristian heart when you're deep
(46:48):
in sin.
There's a struggle going onthere that a non-believer, a
non-regenerate man who's justfilled with his lusts of his
heart is not going to have.
There's an internal conflict,because you are a holy vessel of
God, you are a holy temple andyou're defiling your own temple.
Think about that.
Think about the suffering.
(47:09):
Your own temple.
Think about that.
Think about the suffering.
Think about how unbeneficialthat's going to be for our walk
with God by putting badsacrifices in our temples.
It's terrible.
It's terrible when we look atthat.
But then again, on the otherhand, what harm do you see in
the doctrine that putsChristians having genuine
struggles with sin out offellowship with God?
(47:30):
What harm is there in breakingthat bond with them and saying,
no, you burned that bridge,you're out of fellowship, don't
plan on getting back in.
Until you fix that issue, god'snot going to be there for you.
What harm can you see in thatyou take away the Lord?
How are you going to get anyhelp?
Go fix this on your own.
Isn't that what the Lord issupposed to be there for?
(47:57):
Do more damaging sins likesexual immorality and pride draw
us further out of focus of thewill of our Lord?
You get deep into these sins.
Sexual immorality is a deep sin.
It's a deep desire that comeswithin.
It consumes you.
So what happens when you'reconsumed in sin?
What happens?
We turn our face away from theLord, turn our face away from
his guidance.
(48:19):
When you go down a road that theLord isn't instructing you to
go down, we're going to learnfrom that.
We have an alternative,non-regenerate man.
God's saying I'm done with you.
Be thankful that you have theLord, be thankful that you're in
perfect fellowship with theLord and you can go to him,
because we need him.
(48:40):
All of us need him.
We need him all the time.
And Paul's saying walk by theSpirit.
He's saying keep him in focus,keep honoring the Lord in focus.
Let's honor him, let's givethanks to him, just turning our
backs, putting him in thebackground and saying, gee,
thanks God for forgiving me mysins, and carrying on with our
(49:02):
lives however we see fit,without even considering what he
would want for us.
That's not honoring the Lord.
Being guided by the Spirit ishow we honor the Lord.
Ask the Lord what he would wantfor us.
That's not honoring the Lord.
Being guided by the Spirit ishow we honor the Lord.
Ask the Lord what he wants fromyou.
Ask the Lord to guide you inwhat he wants.
You'll see your life changewhen you start doing that.
Tell him you want to serve him,tell him you want to help him.
(49:23):
And on this note, if we comparesin with drugs, are some drugs
more consuming and moreaddictive than others?
Yeah, I think that's what wesee with sexual immorality.
All sin is bad, right, but isany drug good to abuse?
If sin is cool to drugs, areany of them good to abuse?
You can abuse alcohol or youcan abuse and inject heroin.
(49:44):
Heroin injection is going toget you addicted very quickly,
right?
Alcohol is going to take time.
Do you want to abuse any ofthem and become consumed in them
?
No, you don't.
But if somebody starts gettinginto heroin, it's alert, alert,
stop that.
You are going to get hooked.
Don't do that right.
It's a bigger deal.
It's not just a gentle rebuke.
(50:06):
That's why I think Paul dealtwith that that way.
He didn't want harm done tothat man or the church.
And the cool thing is in hissecond letter it seems that that
guy came back around Then inEphesians we read Therefore, be
careful how you walk, not asunwise men, but as wise, making
the most of your time becausethe days are evil.
(50:30):
So then, do not be foolish, butunderstand what the will of the
Lord is.
Do not get drunk with wine, forthat is dissipation, but be
filled with the Spirit, speakingto one another in psalms and
hymns and spiritual songs,singing and making melody with
your heart to the Lord, alwaysgiving thanks for all things in
the name of our Lord, jesusChrist.
To God, even the Father.
That's Ephesians 5.15.
(50:52):
Great passage.
In the beginning of Paul'sletters to the Romans, he writes
I'm not ashamed of the gospel.
Can you think of a couplereasons someone might have
shamed Paul for the gospel andtried to make him feel ashamed?
Think about the Jews and theGentiles.
Would the Jews have thought hewas condoning sinful ways by
(51:13):
preaching grace instead of works?
Yeah, he was accused of that.
He writes about it in hisletters.
They thought he was givingpeople a license to sin, but as
we read here, it doesn't soundlike he is, does it?
He's not telling people go sin.
He's saying you're free of sin,but you're going to suffer.
Would the gentiles have beenupset for being called out on
(51:33):
sin?
Yeah, that'd be the other side.
Paul is not afraid to call outsin and tell the truth about sin
.
That's part of not beingashamed of the gospel, isn't it?
If you're ashamed to call outsin, if you're ashamed to admit
what sin is and hold to what godsees as sin, if we're to back
down in an argument about thatand let people tell us what sin
(51:54):
is and it isn't, we're notholding to the gospel.
Why are we ashamed of this?
Sin is sin.
We should be recognizing it inour own lives.
This is how we look atourselves, to make sure that
we're not causing a stumblingblock for other people, right?
How can we even know what to doif we don't even know what sin
is and we start blurring thelines with that?
Today's movements going on inthe church are just ridiculous.
(52:17):
Come on, people.
In our last study, we learnedthat God judges mankind by the
gospel.
We also know that we cannotout-sin his amazing grace, don't
we?
We can't out-sin grace.
Based on this, though, can wesay that those taking pride in
homosexuality are ashamed of thegospel?
Yeah, they don't want to hearabout God's view of sin.
(52:40):
Put that away.
I don't want to hear that.
That's stupid.
Can we also conclude that thosethat say God's grace does not
extend to those who arestruggling with that sin are
also ashamed of the gospel.
Yeah, they can't deal with thefact that people can be saved
and still sin.
They can't deal with the factthat God is still going to be
(53:03):
there for them.
That's just ridiculous.
They need God.
People need God that arestruggling with sin.
When you take him out of thepicture and you say you're out
of fellowship, you just toldthem that he ain't helping you.
Come on, think about that.
Let's end by considering thestory of the prodigal son from
Luke 15, 11 through 32.
(53:23):
I'm not going to go into thewhole storyline of the prodigal
son today, but when we look atthe story, we see a son who has
turned away from his father andgone off on his own to fulfill
his own selfish desires.
When the son came back to hisfather, his father was thrilled
and wanted to celebrate.
The father never turned awayfrom his son.
(53:43):
The son turned away from himand when he came back, the
father received him with joy.
While he was away, the fatherwas him with joy.
While he was away, the fatherwas grieving.
The spirit of God grieves for us.
You're grieving the spirit ofGod when we sin.
Why?
Why are we grieving the spiritof God?
Is it because he's ready topunish us and paddle us.
No, it's because he cares aboutyou.
(54:04):
You're grieving him because hecares.
God's going to use all this badand turn it into good, because
that's what he does.
He's going to make somethingout of everything that you do.
That's garbage, but the moregarbage you put in your life,
the more you're going to suffer.
That's just the way it is.
If we're going to suffer, weshould suffer for the Lord.
There's a deeper context to theprodigal son.
(54:26):
It's very much a Jew andGentile passage, but I also see
a view of how our HeavenlyFather is dealing with
Christians who fall into sinunder the new covenant of grace
that he's provided for us.
The Father was waiting withopen arms.
So that's what I got for youtoday, guys.
I hope you guys have a good dayout there and I'll talk to you
next week.
Announcement (54:47):
Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to
Grace podcast brought to you bythe finished work of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
transcripts page or reach Lennyprivately from the contact form.
Hello and welcome to the Waking Up to Grace
podcast, where we celebrate andexplore the finished work of our
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Tune in to the Waking Up toGrace podcast on every major
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And now here's Lenny.
Lenny (00:22):
Welcome back to the podcast everyone.
In our last study I introducedthe concept of Welcome back to
the podcast everyone.
In our last study I introducedthe concept of the gospel being
written in the stars.
I'll likely dive into thatagain more later in Romans when
Paul references the subjectagain in chapter 10.
In case you didn't see it, Idid update that episode with
(00:42):
more information a few daysafter publishing it.
There's now about 15 minutesmore added to the episode, if
you want to check that out.
Today we're going to be lookingat what Paul writes about
homosexuality.
Today this has become quite ahot topic in the church and
sadly I see error on both sidesof the argument.
I see one side trampling thegospel and the other side
watering it down and we'resupposed to pick a side.
(01:03):
The church doesn't look anybetter than our government in
this way.
It's a total circus.
The history of theinstitutional church is very
troubling in this way and todayisn't really much better.
In the past it would be commonto be killed for something
deemed as heresy.
The same would often happen forsomeone proclaiming the truth.
It just depended on who was incharge and what they believed.
(01:24):
Can you imagine what Americawould look like.
If the church has handledthings the way they have in the
past, I don't know who would bekilling who right now.
Why is the institutional churchso caught up in error all
throughout history?
I think it's because religionputs people in spiritual bondage
and creates bitterness.
Today, in looking at the nextpassages in our Roman study, I'm
(01:46):
going to challenge you to findthe truth about homosexuality
and the error in the argumentsof most church establishments
today.
We finished our last study withPaul saying For his invisible
attributes, namely his eternalpower and divine nature, have
been clearly perceived eversince the creation of the world
and the things that have beenmade.
(02:06):
So they are.
We discussed how Yahweh isclearly revealed as gospel to
mankind, and so they are,without excuse.
Based on our last study, Ithink that the they is
representing mankind in general,not just a specific group of
people such as national Israel.
Going into the next passages ofour study, in verse 21, paul
(02:28):
writes For although they knewGod, they did not honor him as
God or give thanks to him, butthey became futile in their
thinking and their foolishhearts were darkened.
We go over the storyline fromGenesis to Christ in episode 42
and 43, if you want to look atthose later.
But the question is, could thethey here still be representing
(02:51):
a mankind who is rejectingYahweh?
Who's he referring to as they?
I believe he's just talkingabout mankind in general here.
When we look at the context, Idon't think anything has shifted
from our last study, where wedetermined that he's talking
about all of mankind sincecreation, since the fall, all
the way up to the gospel.
(03:11):
What does it seem that Yahwehwas looking for in mankind,
based on this passage?
It says for although they knewGod, they did not honor him as
God or give thanks to him, butthey became futile in their
thinking and their foolishhearts were darkened.
So I would say he's looking forhonor.
He's looking to be honored asGod, which is the God of all
(03:33):
gods, king of kings, lord oflords, and he likes when we give
thanks to him.
What would be the opposite?
Rejecting him and beingunthankful.
So what was the result ofmankind not honoring the Lord or
being thankful to him?
All their foolish hearts weredarkened, their thinking became
futile, it was worthless, Alltheir thoughts were worthless,
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darkened hearts.
Has every single person knownGod in the way that they're
describing here?
Every single person?
Maybe, not every single person.
I think, based on the context,you know that he's pretty much
summarizing that humanity hasknown god, he's made himself
well known to humanity.
(04:16):
But, as we read earlier andwe'll get into that, people
suppress the truth.
So if mankind's suppressing thetruth, some men may not
recognize it because it's beingsuppressed.
So mankind is ruining mankindbasically.
But in general, does mankindknow God in this way?
And I don't see this to beclear as an intimate sense.
(04:38):
It's kind of like he's right infront of your face.
You know about him is what I'mseeing here.
Clearly, in the context he'snot talking about people loving
God, because in some areas ofscripture, like when God knows
you and foreknows you, there's avery intimate meaning to that
word, but here we just see acommon knowledge.
So in general, does mankindknow about God?
(05:00):
I think, like in today's age,yeah, I mean just about
everybody knows about Christ,yeshua and they would say Jesus.
Obviously People know about him, people know about God.
Gospel's all over the place butnobody really cares because
it's being suppressed and peoplemake light of it.
Right, is it easy to applythese passages to Israel?
(05:21):
Because they stand out as apeople who knew God.
Right.
But then we got to think, as wewere looking at earlier, was
Yahweh dealing with mankindbefore Israel?
And we determined that wefigured he was talking just in
general to mankind, but just tokind of prove the point
altogether, just knowing aboutGod.
People were not in the darkabout God.
(05:43):
Adam and Eve walked amongYahweh and Eden, and then from
them comes Noah and Enoch whoalso walked with the Lord.
Those guys were prophets intheir time.
You think they just kept theirmouths shut and kept it to
themselves.
No, abraham had a discussionwith Yahweh directly.
That was all before Israel.
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Cain and Abel were makingofferings to the Lord and seemed
to know what pleased him andwhat didn't.
You had Abel offering asacrifice that was pleasing and
Cain not pleasing.
And it seems clear to me when Ilook at that story that Cain
knew he was offering a garbageoffering.
I don't think it was anaccident.
Then, before the flood, we havethis strange happening where
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clean and unclean animals arebeing brought onto the ark.
Have you ever thought aboutthat?
You sit there and you readabout Noah's ark and it says to
bring so many clean and uncleananimals?
He says to Noah and you're justlike well, how did they know
that?
Because God was dealing withthem.
God was dealing with his peopleBefore the law, during the law
and after the law.
Then you also have Abrahamgiving this tithe to Melchizedek
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and if you study that a littlebit, he was a Christ type.
There's something very specialabout that situation going on
there Before the law.
But the funny thing is that thetithe was mentioned before the
law.
A lot of people use that to saythe tithe is still honorable
today, which makes no sense,because we have a whole new
covenant here and it was apartfrom the law and it's all free,
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it's based on grace.
Tithes never once mentioned tobe honored in the New Testament,
but that's a whole other story.
He was dealing with his people.
They were making sacrifices.
A tithe was known about somehow.
It wasn't money, it was spoilsfrom a war, but it's just
fascinating thinking about howGod was dealing with his people,
isn't it?
So can we conclude just on thesefacts that God was dealing with
(07:36):
mankind before Israel?
Absolutely.
I mean, I used to look at thesepassages and think it had to be
Israel, because that's who Godwas dealing with.
That's who God was revealinghimself through.
It seemed to make a lot ofsense.
In my opinion, based on thelast study that we did, the
context much more fits with himdealing with mankind in general
(07:56):
and directing those passages atthat.
I think that's very clear.
So is mankind basically good allalong, from the beginning,
after the fall, or the opposite?
No, they definitely aren'tbasically good, are they?
Apart from God, they'redownright evil.
But what made man pleasing tothe Lord all throughout history?
Faith, belief, honoring him,being thankful to him, right the
(08:21):
things that come from faith andbelief.
So let's look back on verse 18for some more context.
In Romans 1.18, we read For thewrath of God is revealed from
heaven against all ungodlinessand unrighteousness of men who,
by their unrighteousness,suppress the truth.
So although the Lord hasrevealed himself since the
beginning of creation, did thatstop mankind from suppressing
(08:43):
his truth with error and lies?
No, it sure didn't.
If rejecting the gospel, nothonoring Yahweh, not giving
thanks to Yahweh, suppresses thetruth, then is it possible that
many end up not knowing of theLord at all due to the sin of
others?
And I say yeah, absolutely.
It just confirms what we weretalking about before.
If the truth gets suppressed,some people might not ever hear
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Does the Lord owe salvation tosinful man.
Does anyone have an excuse fortheir sin and for their unbelief
?
According to Paul, they'rewithout excuse.
When we go back to the fall ofmankind in Eden, we inherit
spiritual death from Adam andEve at birth.
Does this seem to give us anymore of an excuse, according to
Paul?
Sometimes I wonder, jokingly,is Paul trying to help out Adam
(09:31):
when we get to heaven?
Because it kind of seems like awhole lot of people are
thinking Adam did this, it'syour fault, adam, or maybe the
people that are perishingthey're going to say God, it was
Adam's fault.
I don't think that's going towork.
I think Paul makes that prettyclear that you don't have an
excuse.
You can't blame somebody elsefor your own unbelief and your
own sin.
(09:51):
So Paul continues Claiming tobe wise.
They became fools and exchangedthe glory of the immortal God
for images resembling mortal manand birds and animals and
reptiles.
Do we see this going onthroughout scripture before
national Israel?
You know, if we're looking atthis, as is the context about
Israel or mankind, did we seethis going on throughout
(10:12):
scripture before national Israel?
And we do.
And if we dig into historicalevidence, we find examples of
mankind worshiping lesser godswe learn about in episodes 42
and 43, lesser gods we learnedabout in episodes 42 and 43,
these lesser gods weren't merelymade up.
These images likely representedthe corrupt watchers that were
(10:34):
put in charge of the nations atBabel.
They were likely influenced toworship these images rather than
Yahweh.
We see examples of this inEgypt.
At the time of Exodus, egypthad frog gods.
There's historical evidence tosupport this, if you look it up.
What did Yahweh do to Egypt?
Through Moses, he gave them aton of frogs.
There were frogs coming outeverywhere.
It was a plague of frogs.
Was this random choice on thepart of our Lord or was this
(10:57):
Yahweh displaying hissovereignty and power over all
of the lesser gods and deities?
It was actually Yahwehdisplaying his sovereignty over
the lesser gods.
Throughout scripture, we seemankind worshiping the lesser
gods, worshiping the Nephilimand rejecting Yahweh.
Again in episodes 42 and 43, wetalked about those things.
The angels sent to man byYahweh would even declare things
(11:21):
like don't bow before me, I'monly a messenger.
But the rebellious watchers, orangels, did not honor God in
this way.
As we study in the beginning ofRomans, yahweh is the creator,
the triune God, the Father, theSon and the Holy Spirit are the
creator.
Our Lord was from the beginning.
The world, the divine council,mankind, the heavenly realms are
(11:44):
his creation.
Anything under Yahweh lookingto be worshipped in his place
was rebelling against him.
Nothing under Yahweh is to beheld above him by mankind.
But that doesn't stop us fromdoing it anyway, does it?
There was consequences.
Continuing.
Paul writes Therefore, god gavethem up, in the lusts of their
hearts, to impurity, to thedishonoring of their bodies
(12:07):
among themselves, because theyexchanged the truth about God
for a lie and worshipped andserved the creature rather than
the Creator, who is blessedforever.
Amen.
God.
Giving them up, according tosome, is a powerful way of
saying that God literally didthis to them.
God cast the spell of sin ontothese people, but that would
(12:28):
make God the direct author ofsin.
Do we really see God as theauthor of sin in this passage,
though?
If we look at the passage,where did the lusts originate?
It says God gave them up in thelusts of their hearts to
impurity.
He gave them up to their ownlusts.
So is this yet another exampleof the sad state of mankind
(12:48):
after the fall?
Absolutely it is.
It's this fallen man.
But what did we also readearlier about who owns the
sinful behavior.
Just to be sure, who is thesource of it?
According to Romans 1.18, weread For the wrath of God is
revealed from heaven against allungodliness and unrighteousness
of men who, by theirunrighteousness, suppress the
(13:11):
truth.
So whose unrighteousnesssuppress the truth?
Men?
It includes women too.
He's just talking about mankindin general.
But it's their unrighteousness,they own it.
They have no excuse.
They can't say God made me dothis.
And then how much ungodlinessand unrighteousness is god's
wrath on?
Just a little bit of it, maybeonce in a while, or all of it?
(13:35):
All of it, right?
What is the primary sin thatwe're dealing with here now?
This is something to reallythink about.
He's going to mention a lot ofsins in these passages coming,
but what is the primary sin sofar that we've been dealing with
?
It's unbelief.
And just to clarify context areany of these people referenced
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considered in any way faithfulin Yahweh?
Is he talking about believersso far anywhere?
Do you see him talk aboutChristians or believers anywhere
in any of this so far?
No, no, he's talking aboutungodly, unfaithful,
gospel-rejecting, fallen men.
(14:19):
It's important to pay attentionto that.
Is there any reason at all tobelieve the people mentioned in
these passages are faithful orsaved.
Any reason at all?
No, these are unfaithful,non-regenerate people.
We're going to want to knowthat, coming up and see why.
In verse 26, we read For thisreason, god gave them up to
(14:40):
dishonorable passions, for theirwomen exchanged natural
relations for those that arecontrary to nature, and the men
likewise gave up naturalrelations.
Going back to verse 25, whatwas the reason God gave them up
(15:02):
to dishonorable passions?
It was because they exchangedthe truth about God for a lie
and worshipped and served thecreature rather than the creator
.
They rejected the truth.
They rejected the gospel, right?
It says he gave them up todishonorable passions.
Is this considered a judgment?
I mean giving them up.
(15:23):
That's an action word.
I mean he's giving them up,he's doing something right.
That's where some people saythat he put this sin on them as
a punishment.
I don't see that, though.
That would make God the authorof sin.
But is the giving up consideredto be a judgment?
Yeah, it is.
It's a judgment.
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He's letting them suffer in sin, right?
Do we see the same type ofgiving up at other times in
scripture, though?
You know what other times didYahweh give people up to
something.
Well, at the fall of mankind,he took the spirit away from
Adam and Eve.
He never promised them thatthey would keep the spirit like
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in the new covenant age.
They lost it, he took it away.
He never promised them thatthey would keep the spirit like
in the new covenant age.
They lost it, he took it away.
He told them not to eat fromthe tree.
That was the consequence.
Then the flood, seeing what wasgoing on between the Nephilim
and the watchers and the people,and it was crazy, total chaos.
I'm flooding you guys out,starting over.
Then at the Tower of Babel,they're building this ziggurat,
(16:26):
worshiping watchers, worshipingthe other gods, doing the
opposite of what God told themto to go around the earth and
inhabit the earth and spread out.
They all stayed in one placeand conspired against him.
So he spread them out.
Scattered nations scatteredtheir languages, said I'm done
with you, I'm giving you up tothese lesser gods, right.
(16:48):
And then we also see a judgmentoutside of Scripture.
That was prophesied inScripture the AD 70 destruction
of Jerusalem.
God was done with Israel.
National Israel was done.
They were paying a price.
Right.
So giving them up is a judgment.
It was a judgment of aspiritually dead, fallen mankind
(17:09):
rejecting the truth.
Now the next questions mightstrike a nerve for many, but I
believe we have to ask thisquestion in order to make sense
of what's written in ourscripture.
This one's not as tough.
We'll start with the easy one.
Is Yahweh the creator of allthings in heaven and on earth?
He's the creator.
We learned that in our paststudies.
Plain and clear he's thecreator of all things.
(17:30):
That's what we believe asChristians.
But here's the zinger Is Yahweheveryone's God?
Is he the God of all people?
I think it'd be easy to thinkthat because he's the creator,
he created everything, so he'severybody's god.
Right, but that's not what hesays.
We see a clear indicationdirectly from Yahweh through his
(17:52):
prophet Hosea.
This was a judgment against thepeople of Israel.
In Hosea 1 9 we read and theLord said call his name, not my
people, for you are not mypeople and I am not your god.
Was yahweh considered the godof israel?
Overall he was, but he justtold him that he wasn't.
Didn't he to national israel?
(18:14):
Yahweh, through his prophetjeremiah, declared in jeremiah
32, 38 and they shall be mypeople and I will be their god.
I will give them one heart andone way that they may fear me
forever for their own good.
We see the statement being madein other places as well.
So this was to Israel.
(18:44):
But were all of the people ofnational Israel God's holy
people?
Was this to every one of them?
Was this a covenant to nationalIsrael?
No, it wasn't.
It was a covenant to trueIsrael.
I'm touching on this before weget there.
It's a bit of a teaser.
We're going to dive more intothat topic in Romans 11 when we
get there, but I also talk aboutit in episode number six from a
(19:08):
couple years ago about the trueIsrael.
It's going to be fun too to goback over that in chapter 11, do
an updated episode on that.
But then getting back to thetopic of handing over and sin,
if the sin was produced bymankind, did Yahweh directly
cause it?
I asked this question quite afew times because I really want
(19:29):
to drive this home.
No, yahweh did not make anybodydo this.
Mankind sins pretty well ontheir own, without any help.
And did mankind have an excuseaccording to verse 20?
And no, if we go back in ourBible to verse 20, mankind is
without excuse according to Paul.
(19:49):
But let's take a closer look atthe details of the sin being
described in these verses, weread.
For this reason, god gave themup to dishonorable passions For
their women, exchanged naturalrelations for those that are
contrary to nature.
And the men likewise gave upnatural relations with women and
were consumed with passion forone another.
Men committing what type ofrelations are considered
(20:11):
contrary to nature here?
Men with men and women withwomen?
Anything that God didn't createto be that way?
Men and women were created tobe together sexually.
Not men and men, not women withwomen.
Anything that God didn't createto be that way.
Men and women were created tobe together sexually.
Not men and men, not women andwomen.
Paul's saying that's unnatural.
(20:32):
Are relations contrary tonature honorable according to
Paul in our passage?
No, he's saying they're nothonorable.
That's not honorable.
Men being with men and womenwith women it's unnatural and
it's not honorable according toPaul.
Now, if the judgment was Yahwehwithdrawing his mighty hand and
basically saying I'm not dealingwith you, I'm done with you,
(20:55):
you go enjoy your sin andsuffering, essentially letting
them behave that way, thenwhat's the due penalty?
What is that action saying?
When God says I'm done with you, that's a separation.
You don't get to have thispiece of my glory.
You want to reject me?
You get to suffer.
You think that's what you want?
(21:17):
Then have it Now.
Many hold that the due penaltyfor the error is referring
directly to homosexuality andits aids.
It's something that happenswithin you.
From that, some hold that thesin itself was a judgment to the
people.
But what was the error thatinitiated this judgment in the
first place?
By Yahweh, we read in verse 25,because they exchanged the
(21:41):
truth of God for a lie andworship and serve the creature
rather than the creator, who isblessed forever.
For this reason, god gave themup to dishonorable passions.
For that reason, so washomosexuality itself the cause
of the judgment, or was itrejecting the gospel?
It was rejecting the gospel,wasn't it?
(22:05):
They rejected the gospel, soGod let them go to sin, and that
was one of the sins they chose.
Let's read on for some moredetails.
In verse 28, we read and sincethey did not see fit to
acknowledge God, god gave themup to a debased mind to do what
ought not to be done.
Here we see again the reasoningfor the judgment, as well as the
(22:27):
penalty for their error.
What was the error and what wasthe judgment?
The error was rejecting God,rejecting the gospel, rejecting
his truth.
What was the penalty?
Separation from God.
If God gave him up to this sin.
Is this sin pleasing to theLord in any way?
(22:48):
Was that something that washonorable or pleasing to him if
he made it a penalty?
No, not at all.
Now here's a good question.
Does Paul call homosexualsmentally ill?
Is he implying at all thatthey're mentally ill, or is he
just saying they're deeplysinful?
He's calling it a sin, isn't he?
(23:16):
Does giving up naturalrelations and being consumed
with passion for one anothersound like a good thing?
No, he's not making this out tobe a good thing at all.
Does committing shameless actsdescribe taking pride in
homosexual behavior?
Yeah, I would say so.
They're shameless about it.
They're taking pride in it.
They have no problem with itwhatsoever.
There is definitely aconnotation that is directly
(23:38):
applying to that, isn't there?
Paul is saying that that's anon-regenerate, deeply sinful,
fallen man behavior.
Would that make homosexuality agodless behavior?
Yeah, it does.
That's what Paul's telling usplain and clear.
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Here's another big question Werethese Christians committing
these acts?
Is he talking about Christianshere?
He's not, is not.
Is he?
We got to go back to ourcontext.
He's talking aboutnon-regenerate men, isn't he?
Yes, these are not christianhomosexuals, just to be clear.
And it does matter.
And it matters because god'ssaying I'm done with you.
(24:22):
Does he do that to christians?
Does he say I'm done with you?
Does he do that to christians?
Does he say I'm done with you?
I've not seen in scripture.
But does everyone who rejectsyahweh then become a homosexual
because he's saying you rejectme, I'm gonna hand you over to
this stuff?
In my opinion, the answer tothat is pretty simple, though.
No, obviously we don't lookaround and everybody rejects god
(24:43):
as a homosexual, but it's a sinthat people engage in.
It's one of the sins that helists, and later on we'll read
about more of them.
This is just the first one hebrings up.
We'll talk about that too.
Why is it the first one?
The next question is do we seeChristians committing acts like
these throughout Scripture?
Do we see actual Christianscommitting these acts when we
(25:04):
read Scripture?
And the answer is yeah.
In 1 Corinthians, chapter 5, weread of sexual immorality of a
really bad kind.
Did Paul pat the man on theback who was indulging in sexual
immorality in Corinth andcausing others to take pride in
him.
Did Paul say good job, buddy.
Hey, you know I got no problemwith that.
(25:25):
I don't want to get in the wayof how you worship God.
It's not up to me how you honoryour Lord.
You know I don't want to getbetween you and the Lord's
relationship.
No, he didn't say that at all.
But did he say he was out offellowship with God or not right
with God in any way?
And he didn.
But Paul did tell the church notto associate with this person
(25:49):
who was taking pride in thatbehavior.
It was causing a serious issuein the church.
He actually had them remove theperson from their group for a
time and if you think about thatfor a moment, in those days
that was more than just notbeing at church over the weekend
.
They lived among each other andthey supported each other.
He cast that guy out for a bit.
(26:10):
He didn't say to make thatperson a pastor or a deacon.
He wanted the issue to be dealtwith, and pretty severely
compared with other types of sin.
Pride and sexual immorality wasnot something that Paul took
lightly.
We see it clearly in scripture.
This is a simple fact that wehave to deal with Sin is sin.
(26:30):
It's not unclear what sin is.
If we study Scripture with ourspiritual eyes open, if we study
Scripture with pride, we missthe truth every time.
Consider this for a moment.
If you're saying homosexualityis not sin, are you not saying
God is a liar?
Are you not proclaimingunbelief in Yahweh by declaring
(26:52):
such a notion To a church beingdeceived into unbelief?
John wrote in his first epistleif we say we have no sin, we
deceive ourselves and the truthis not in us.
And then he goes on to say ifwe say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar and his word isnot in us.
And then he goes on to say ifwe say we have not sinned, we
make him a liar and his word isnot in us.
And that's 1 John 1, 8 and 10.
(27:13):
Can we apply these passages towhat we're reading about
homosexuality?
I just covered these passagesin episode number 51 recently.
But can we apply these passagesto what we're reading about
homosexuality?
I say we can in the sense thatyou have people that are denying
sin Absolutely.
(27:36):
What Paul is saying here abouthomosexuality is not true.
You're going to say I mean,come on, is that even a real
argument to have Christiansgoing back to the spiritual,
simple milk you know, the simple, spiritual milk of our faith,
understanding what sin is.
And we're going to argue aboutthat.
That doesn't make any sense.
If we're going to help eachother, we have to look at the
(27:58):
truth about sin and its damagingconsequences and effects.
Sin is going to make peoplesuffer.
Do we make ourselves out to beunbelievers by taking pride in
sin?
Do we make ourselves out to beunbelievers?
Yeah, we actually do.
You look like you're rejectingthe gospel.
The gospel of salvation is thatyou were a sinner and you
(28:22):
needed a savior.
Knowing you're a sinnerrequires knowing what sin is,
doesn't it?
So you're going back to thebeginning and basically saying,
oh, you know that's not sin.
Nope, that's not sin either.
Everything's fine.
I'm not saying that makes youan unbeliever.
Can we become unbelievers oncewe're regenerated?
(28:42):
If you were born again and youstart being silly and starting
to say things aren't sin, areyou unborn again because of that
?
No, you're still a christian.
If you were regenerated, youwere spiritually born.
You can't reverse that and wegot to deal with that as
christians.
There's people out there thatact really foolish, but they
(29:03):
might still be saved.
That's not for us to judge, butwe certainly don't have to hang
out with the people that aregoing around promoting
godlessness.
Do we, do we help otherChristians by proclaiming
godlessness?
Not at all.
Will we suffer when we use ourholy temples for sin of this
magnitude and take pride in that?
(29:23):
Yeah, we're going to suffer,we're going to suffer, and
that's the truth.
Then, right in between these twopassages, though, we read if we
confess our sins, he isfaithful and just to forgive us
our sins and to cleanse us fromall unrighteousness.
So how much unrighteousness iscleansed in us when we come to
(29:43):
Christ, when we admit our sin tohim at regeneration?
That's what he's talking abouthere.
When we say God, I'm a sinner,what happens?
He cleanses us from allunrighteousness, and then we
recognize that we're right withhim.
Now we see, okay, that's sin,that's bad, but I've been
(30:05):
cleansed of all that.
Now I can go on with my lifehonoring God.
It is the point of the gospelto set you free from that
bondage and put you into a placewhere you can honor the Lord.
So does that make us right withGod, being cleansed of all
unrighteousness?
It does, homosexual or not,when you come to Christ, you've
(30:26):
been cleansed.
If you believe the gospel,you've been cleansed.
If you believe the gospel,you've been cleansed.
You can't take that away.
I think it's extremely important, in light of the direction our
society is heading today, thatwe do not approach Christian
homosexuality as something thatit's not.
We have to address it for whatit is.
In 1 Corinthians 5, we seePaul's approach in regards to
(30:47):
dealing with pride.
Pride and sexual immorality isa serious issue in the church
and it needs to be dealt with.
But on the other side of things, I was deeply disturbed when
Melissa told me a story she hadheard about a Christian who was
struggling with homosexuality.
This guy was so troubled by hissin that he preferred severe
illness that would lead to deathover being out of fellowship
(31:09):
with Yahweh.
The man had AIDS and didn'twant the Lord to spare him
because he knew he would go backto his sin.
It was an addiction, a deep,terrible addiction beyond words.
According to his account, hewanted to die in fellowship with
God Because he was currentlynot able to commit the sin due
to AIDS.
So he was in fellowship in hismind, rather than surviving and
(31:34):
being out of fellowship andcontinuing in that sin.
You see what I'm saying.
He believed he was out offellowship with God.
He believed he was disconnected.
God had turned away from himwhen he stopped the sin due to
AIDS.
He now believes he's infellowship because he's not
committing the sin anymore andhe's afraid of committing again
when he gets better, because heknew he was going to.
(31:56):
He's believing he's in and outof fellowship based on his
behavior.
From the view of the gospel ofgrace, this man was a saint who
was struggling with sin,genuinely struggling with sin
and the church let him believethat the one person who could
actually help him had turnedaway from him.
He was even told that he didn'tlove God and that was the
(32:18):
reason for his behavior.
To that kind of theology wehave to ask how much love do we
need to stay in fellowship withGod?
How many sins does it take tobe out of fellowship and, most
importantly, what methods do wetake to get back in?
Are we going to ask forforgiveness?
That's religion.
(32:39):
That's all just religion.
They didn't even ask forforgiveness in the Old Covenant.
They had to make animalsacrifices and shed blood In
Hebrews.
In the new covenant he saysChrist shed his blood once and
for all.
If you want forgiveness, therehas to be bloodshed.
That's the way God works.
God's never worked on a basisof ask me for forgiveness.
(33:00):
That's never been the covenantthat's made up religion.
So can we out-sin grace?
Are we going to go beyond ourgrace with our sin and suddenly
we're going to be in a bad place?
Is there a sin limit that Godhas set for the Christian and we
got to stay within thoseconfines?
If we can be out of fellowshipbased on sin, how do you even
(33:24):
know you're in it right now?
How do you ever know you're init based on sin?
How do you even know you're init right now?
How do you ever know you're init?
Do you realize how holy God is?
Do you realize how awful andwretched sin is to our Lord?
You can't afford to be out offellowship.
That's why we're never toldthat in Scripture.
We need God.
How can we be good enough forsalvation but then we have God
angry with us?
(33:45):
Where do we see any of this inscripture?
We don't.
Being in and out of fellowshipwith God is something that is
made up due to a terriblemisinterpretation.
If we're going to rebuke sin,we have to do it within the
confines of infinite grace.
God's amazing full grace.
We have to deal with that.
(34:06):
People are saved.
God's amazing full grace.
We have to deal with that.
People are saved.
People are in fellowship withGod too.
It's important to understandthat our Romans passage there's
never a bridge burned.
God has never turned away fromyou, waiting for some kind of
behavior from you to make thatchange so that he'll turn his
face towards you again.
That's the age of grace.
That's why the new covenant isa new and better covenant.
(34:29):
If all that wasn't true, thenwhat did Christ even do?
What actually changed from theold covenant to the new covenant
?
Think about that.
It just makes no sense.
It's important to understandthat our Romans passage today
was not referring to Christianhomosexuals being handed over to
sin by God.
(34:50):
God isn't saying to Christianhomosexuals I'm done with you,
I'm handing you over to that sin.
It was not about Yahweh sayingI'm done with you to any
Christian.
Our Father does not deal withus this way.
As Christians, we have a newand better covenant the
purifying blood of Christ andthe life of his resurrection.
(35:10):
To this point, paul tells thechurch in Corinth Do you not
know that the unrighteous willnot inherit the kingdom of God.
Don't be deceived Neither thesexually immoral, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor men whopractice homosexuality, nor
thieves, nor the greedy, nordrunkards, nor revelers, nor
swindlers will inherit thekingdom of God.
Do you think that he starts withsexual immorality?
(35:33):
For a reason?
I definitely believe he did,because we'll notice in our next
study that Paul does the samething here in Romans.
He begins with sexualimmorality and then goes on to
(35:53):
other sin.
And he does it in other areastoo, and we'll talk about that
in the next passage.
There's definitely somethingthere.
We see it in Corinth.
He deals with that person muchmore severely.
He's not kicking people out oftheir group every time somebody
sins, just going wild.
No, that was a deep sinaccording to Paul, and it was
all to do with the pride and thelevel of the sin.
(36:14):
But Paul certainly comes downharder on sexual immorality.
We see that in his churches.
We see that in chapter 5 of thesame letter to the Corinthians.
So are some sins moredestructive than others?
Is the question.
Why is Paul coming down so hardon this one?
Are some sins more destructivethan others?
Yeah, do some sins cause moresuffering than others?
(36:38):
Absolutely.
Do some sins disrupt a churchmore than others.
Yeah, think about that.
Think of sexual immorality andthe disruption it causes, the
suffering it causes.
Our Lord fully accepts you allthe time, right now, anytime but
this doesn't mean he's proud ofyour sin, and you shouldn't be
(37:00):
either.
Taking pride in sin is callingGod a liar.
What does Paul say to theCorinthians who were struggling
with sexual immorality?
At the end of this passage inverse 11?
He says and such were some ofyou, but you were washed, you
were sanctified, you werejustified in the name of the
Lord Jesus and the Spirit of God.
Does this mean they stoppeddoing those things as Christians
(37:24):
?
If you read the letter rightback there again, in chapter 5,
they were having some issueswith that, weren't they?
So he's basically saying that'sall behind you now You've been
washed and sanctified.
Why is he saying that?
For the same reason we're goingback and forth the consequences
of sin, how much Yahweh hatessin, how destructive sin is.
(37:47):
But then you've got to go backto how clean you are from sin
and how perfect you are from theblood of Christ.
He's washed you so that you cankeep a clear mind and get it
together and pray to him forhelp, pray to him for guidance.
We may be free in grace, but weshould not be free of his
guidance.
If we set ourselves free fromhis guidance, we're going to
(38:10):
find ourselves right back inbondage to sin, aren't we?
So how can they be the ones whoenter the kingdom?
Is it because they stoppedsinning?
No, it's because they werewashed by their belief in Christ
.
So what takes Christians out ofjudgment and into justification
?
Because all these things thathe mentioned, he was just
(38:31):
talking about non-regenerate man.
He's saying that's a penalty,that's a judgment.
What takes us out of that?
And suddenly we're justified?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
When we tell Christians thatthey are out of fellowship, that
they don't love God, god hasturned his face away from you.
We water down grace.
(38:51):
That's just the truth.
Grace is bigger than your sinand you cannot out-sin grace.
Got to deal with that.
We're in perfect fellowshipwith God now, but does sin
hinder our relationship with God?
Let me repeat that once more.
We are in perfect fellowshipwith God as Christians.
(39:12):
But does sin hinder ourrelationship with God?
And I say yes.
And let me explain.
Let's start with the nextquestion.
Why might sin hinder ourrelationship with the Father.
What would make sin hinder ourrelationship with the Father?
What would make sin hinder ourrelationship with the Father?
Can you think of something?
(39:35):
If you were deep into sin, ifyou just fell into something bad
?
You fell into a rut and youwere just deep in what would be
the primary issue going onbetween you and the Father.
He just kind of disappears intothe background of your life,
doesn't he?
When you fall into sin, when youlose your focus, when you're
not following the Spirit'sguidance anymore, when you're
(39:55):
not listening and following thatlead, we rock our relationship.
Why?
Because God turned his faceaway from us.
No, because we turn our facesaway from his guidance, faces
away from his guidance.
We ignore and become ignorantto the leading of the Spirit of
God.
He tells us one thing, and itgoes in one ear and out the
(40:18):
other, and we don't care, wejust continue on our way.
We turn away from his guidanceand turn to our own desires.
Right, that's what's happeningTo the Galatians, paul writes.
For you were called to freedom.
Brothers Only, do not use yourfreedom as an opportunity for
the flesh, but through love,serve one another, for the whole
(40:39):
law is fulfilled in one wordyou shall love your neighbor as
yourself.
But if you bite and devour oneanother, watch out that you're
not consumed by one another.
But I say, walk by the Spirit.
What benefit are we going toreceive if we use our freedom
for sin?
None at all, right?
(41:00):
None at all.
If we're going to turn awayfrom God, we're going to receive
the same benefit as the peoplethat are in bondage to their sin
.
Right, the non-regenerate, whoare just in bondage to their sin
and indulging in it andsuffering.
We're going to suffer with them.
If we do those things, if youturn away from the guidance of
the Spirit, we're going to startbeing guided by the flesh.
(41:21):
We're going to start going awayfrom the Lord's guidance if we
stop following it, aren't we?
We're free in grace.
God has set us free from oursins.
But in Paul's analogy he tellsus we're either a slave to sin
or a slave to righteousness.
We're going to get to thatlater too.
(41:45):
We may be free from sin, butthe door is still open and we
can walk back in.
Just go right in there andsuffer with the rest of the
world.
The door is wide open.
You can go out anytime.
He set you free from that.
You're not in bondage to thatanymore.
But there's a reason that Paulsays that you are a slave to
righteousness now.
He's not telling you that youshould be free of God's guidance
.
He's saying that you're a slaveto righteousness now.
(42:06):
You've been bought at a price.
You're owned by the Lord sothat we should honor God with
our lives.
He paid our way out of prison.
Why would you want to go backinto that cell?
Why does Paul remind them thatthe law was fulfilled in love?
I think it's just remindingthem of Christ and what he did.
The law was fulfilled in Christand his love.
(42:26):
So what does Paul recommend tothe Christian?
He says walk by the Spirit andyou won't gratify the desires of
the flesh.
So is this like saying beguided by the love of God, be
guided by the Spirit of God, notsinful desires.
Yeah, that's exactly what he'ssaying Be led by truth and
(42:48):
spirit, not error and sin.
But will we just stop sinningaccording to this passage?
No, he says that you won'tgratify the desires of the flesh
.
The power of sin becomes veryweak when we know the truth and
when we live by the truth.
It doesn't have the same effectanymore when it's brought into
the light.
(43:11):
Galatians 5.17,.
For the desires of the fleshare against the spirit and the
desires of the spirit areagainst the flesh, for they are
opposed to each other to keepyou from doing the things you
want to do.
But if you are led by thespirit, you're not under law.
According to this passage, willsinful behavior bear spiritual
blessings?
No, it's going to be theopposite.
Are Christians led by theSpirit according to this passage
(43:33):
?
Yeah, he's saying you're notunder law if you're led by the
Spirit.
Christians aren't under law.
So he's saying you're led bythe Spirit, but does that mean
they always follow the Spirit?
Does being led by the Spirit,having the Spirit leading you,
mean that you're alwaysfollowing?
Would Paul instruct the churchto walk by the Spirit if it was
not possible to?
(43:54):
This is something that youreally got to realize here.
He's not saying this becauseit's automatic.
He's telling his church to walkby the Spirit because it's
something that they need tolearn and grow in.
They need to develop and maturein this truth.
In Galatians 5.25 we read If welive by the Spirit, let us also
(44:18):
walk by the Spirit.
We see Paul mentioning walkingby the Spirit again here in this
section of his writing inGalatians, does it seem like
Paul puts a strong emphasis onwalking by the Spirit?
Yeah, absolutely he does,doesn't he?
And do you think this is justautomatic?
Again, no, this is notautomatic.
Does Paul seem to describe twodifferent things and living by
(44:40):
the Spirit and walking by theSpirit.
Yeah, christians always live bythe Spirit.
The Spirit's living in us, butare we always following its lead
or are we being ignorant?
That's the Spirit.
The Spirit's living in us, butare we always following its lead
or are we being ignorant?
That's the question.
And Paul's saying walk by theSpirit.
What are the differences?
Living by the Spirit is living,breathing as a Christian.
(45:01):
Walking by the Spirit is beingguided by the Lord.
That's not automatic.
Paul is not telling you thatthe Lord wants you to just go
live your life how you want tolive it and he'll just be
hanging out with you like yourbuddy.
No, he's guiding.
If we take the guidance out ofChristianity and we free
Christianity from the guidanceof the Holy Spirit, what good
(45:23):
are we doing anybody?
Oh, I'm free man.
Hey, dude, let's go hang outand just be Christians.
That's ridiculous.
How do we honor Yahweh by notbeing guided by him by not
learning from him.
What is sin to him, what ishonorable to him?
(45:43):
And, as we've talked about inthe past, why wouldn't we focus
on things that are honorable tohim?
We see what's not.
There's plenty of honorablethings to focus on.
When we focus on pleasing theLord, you're just going to find
that the things that aren'tpleasing him aren't beneficial
anymore.
This isn't beneficial for me.
I'm done with that.
I got to pray for this.
(46:05):
I got to give this up.
God will help us.
He can do anything.
So what harm do you see inpromoting and taking pride in
what is clearly sin?
Well, there's a lot of harm.
We were just reading that thedue penalty for error, the error
of unbelief, is Yahweh.
Being done with them.
They're being filled with thelusts of their hearts, filled
(46:27):
with it.
Are those things still going tohappen to the Christian if they
turn away from Yahweh andreject his ways and stop
following his lead?
Sadly, yes.
The internal conflict that youhave that we were just reading
about, the spirit battling theflesh.
They're in opposition to eachother.
That's what's going on in theChristian heart when you're deep
(46:48):
in sin.
There's a struggle going onthere that a non-believer, a
non-regenerate man who's justfilled with his lusts of his
heart is not going to have.
There's an internal conflict,because you are a holy vessel of
God, you are a holy temple andyou're defiling your own temple.
Think about that.
Think about the suffering.
(47:09):
Your own temple.
Think about that.
Think about the suffering.
Think about how unbeneficialthat's going to be for our walk
with God by putting badsacrifices in our temples.
It's terrible.
It's terrible when we look atthat.
But then again, on the otherhand, what harm do you see in
the doctrine that putsChristians having genuine
struggles with sin out offellowship with God?
(47:30):
What harm is there in breakingthat bond with them and saying,
no, you burned that bridge,you're out of fellowship, don't
plan on getting back in.
Until you fix that issue, god'snot going to be there for you.
What harm can you see in thatyou take away the Lord?
How are you going to get anyhelp?
Go fix this on your own.
Isn't that what the Lord issupposed to be there for?
(47:57):
Do more damaging sins likesexual immorality and pride draw
us further out of focus of thewill of our Lord?
You get deep into these sins.
Sexual immorality is a deep sin.
It's a deep desire that comeswithin.
It consumes you.
So what happens when you'reconsumed in sin?
What happens?
We turn our face away from theLord, turn our face away from
his guidance.
(48:19):
When you go down a road that theLord isn't instructing you to
go down, we're going to learnfrom that.
We have an alternative,non-regenerate man.
God's saying I'm done with you.
Be thankful that you have theLord, be thankful that you're in
perfect fellowship with theLord and you can go to him,
because we need him.
(48:40):
All of us need him.
We need him all the time.
And Paul's saying walk by theSpirit.
He's saying keep him in focus,keep honoring the Lord in focus.
Let's honor him, let's givethanks to him, just turning our
backs, putting him in thebackground and saying, gee,
thanks God for forgiving me mysins, and carrying on with our
(49:02):
lives however we see fit,without even considering what he
would want for us.
That's not honoring the Lord.
Being guided by the Spirit ishow we honor the Lord.
Ask the Lord what he would wantfor us.
That's not honoring the Lord.
Being guided by the Spirit ishow we honor the Lord.
Ask the Lord what he wants fromyou.
Ask the Lord to guide you inwhat he wants.
You'll see your life changewhen you start doing that.
Tell him you want to serve him,tell him you want to help him.
(49:23):
And on this note, if we comparesin with drugs, are some drugs
more consuming and moreaddictive than others?
Yeah, I think that's what wesee with sexual immorality.
All sin is bad, right, but isany drug good to abuse?
If sin is cool to drugs, areany of them good to abuse?
You can abuse alcohol or youcan abuse and inject heroin.
(49:44):
Heroin injection is going toget you addicted very quickly,
right?
Alcohol is going to take time.
Do you want to abuse any ofthem and become consumed in them
?
No, you don't.
But if somebody starts gettinginto heroin, it's alert, alert,
stop that.
You are going to get hooked.
Don't do that right.
It's a bigger deal.
It's not just a gentle rebuke.
(50:06):
That's why I think Paul dealtwith that that way.
He didn't want harm done tothat man or the church.
And the cool thing is in hissecond letter it seems that that
guy came back around Then inEphesians we read Therefore, be
careful how you walk, not asunwise men, but as wise, making
the most of your time becausethe days are evil.
(50:30):
So then, do not be foolish, butunderstand what the will of the
Lord is.
Do not get drunk with wine, forthat is dissipation, but be
filled with the Spirit, speakingto one another in psalms and
hymns and spiritual songs,singing and making melody with
your heart to the Lord, alwaysgiving thanks for all things in
the name of our Lord, jesusChrist.
To God, even the Father.
That's Ephesians 5.15.
(50:52):
Great passage.
In the beginning of Paul'sletters to the Romans, he writes
I'm not ashamed of the gospel.
Can you think of a couplereasons someone might have
shamed Paul for the gospel andtried to make him feel ashamed?
Think about the Jews and theGentiles.
Would the Jews have thought hewas condoning sinful ways by
(51:13):
preaching grace instead of works?
Yeah, he was accused of that.
He writes about it in hisletters.
They thought he was givingpeople a license to sin, but as
we read here, it doesn't soundlike he is, does it?
He's not telling people go sin.
He's saying you're free of sin,but you're going to suffer.
Would the gentiles have beenupset for being called out on
(51:33):
sin?
Yeah, that'd be the other side.
Paul is not afraid to call outsin and tell the truth about sin
.
That's part of not beingashamed of the gospel, isn't it?
If you're ashamed to call outsin, if you're ashamed to admit
what sin is and hold to what godsees as sin, if we're to back
down in an argument about thatand let people tell us what sin
(51:54):
is and it isn't, we're notholding to the gospel.
Why are we ashamed of this?
Sin is sin.
We should be recognizing it inour own lives.
This is how we look atourselves, to make sure that
we're not causing a stumblingblock for other people, right?
How can we even know what to doif we don't even know what sin
is and we start blurring thelines with that?
Today's movements going on inthe church are just ridiculous.
(52:17):
Come on, people.
In our last study, we learnedthat God judges mankind by the
gospel.
We also know that we cannotout-sin his amazing grace, don't
we?
We can't out-sin grace.
Based on this, though, can wesay that those taking pride in
homosexuality are ashamed of thegospel?
Yeah, they don't want to hearabout God's view of sin.
(52:40):
Put that away.
I don't want to hear that.
That's stupid.
Can we also conclude that thosethat say God's grace does not
extend to those who arestruggling with that sin are
also ashamed of the gospel.
Yeah, they can't deal with thefact that people can be saved
and still sin.
They can't deal with the factthat God is still going to be
(53:03):
there for them.
That's just ridiculous.
They need God.
People need God that arestruggling with sin.
When you take him out of thepicture and you say you're out
of fellowship, you just toldthem that he ain't helping you.
Come on, think about that.
Let's end by considering thestory of the prodigal son from
Luke 15, 11 through 32.
(53:23):
I'm not going to go into thewhole storyline of the prodigal
son today, but when we look atthe story, we see a son who has
turned away from his father andgone off on his own to fulfill
his own selfish desires.
When the son came back to hisfather, his father was thrilled
and wanted to celebrate.
The father never turned awayfrom his son.
(53:43):
The son turned away from himand when he came back, the
father received him with joy.
While he was away, the fatherwas him with joy.
While he was away, the fatherwas grieving.
The spirit of God grieves for us.
You're grieving the spirit ofGod when we sin.
Why?
Why are we grieving the spiritof God?
Is it because he's ready topunish us and paddle us.
No, it's because he cares aboutyou.
(54:04):
You're grieving him because hecares.
God's going to use all this badand turn it into good, because
that's what he does.
He's going to make somethingout of everything that you do.
That's garbage, but the moregarbage you put in your life,
the more you're going to suffer.
That's just the way it is.
If we're going to suffer, weshould suffer for the Lord.
There's a deeper context to theprodigal son.
(54:26):
It's very much a Jew andGentile passage, but I also see
a view of how our HeavenlyFather is dealing with
Christians who fall into sinunder the new covenant of grace
that he's provided for us.
The Father was waiting withopen arms.
So that's what I got for youtoday, guys.
I hope you guys have a good dayout there and I'll talk to you
next week.
Announcement (54:47):
Thank you for listening to the Waking Up to
Grace podcast brought to you bythe finished work of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
If you enjoyed today's episode,we would love to hear from you.
You can send encouragement ourway right from our episodes and
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